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We Licke Icke (Back to the Conspiracy)
44 Plays1 year ago
Josh and M revisit David Icke for the fourth(?) time...
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Transcript
Pronunciation and Episode Title
00:00:00
Speaker
Dear listeners, before we begin, we need to be very clear about an aspect of this week's topic. We are going to, again, be talking about David Icke. That's Icke, yes it's spelt, I-C-K-E, but it's pronounced Icke. And not, we need to make this clear, not Icke. Which is why the titles of our previous episodes devoted to the man, Icke Icke Baby, The Iceman Cometh, A Song of Icke and Fire,
00:00:29
Speaker
Ah, quite frankly, hilarious wordplay. Which they would not have been if we were making plays on the name Ick. So to reiterate, if you think his name is pronounced Ick, you are implying that we are not the sidesplitting wordsmiths we know ourselves to be. So...
00:00:45
Speaker
Don't do that. Furthermore, it's imperative that you use the correct pronunciation for this week's title. We like Ike. A reference, of course, to the famous political campaign slogan for US President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Josh, how is Ike short for Dwight? I think it's short for Eisenhower. Not important. What is important is that you look at the title of this episode and burst into fully justified paroxysms of laughter at a classic reference to a cultural touchstone.
00:01:12
Speaker
The alternative would be to read it aloud and think we lick ick. Now I'm not saying we don't. I am. We just don't want you to get the wrong idea. So once again, ike, not ick. Please, get it right or we'll have to come and hit you with a stike.
Introduction and Recording Locations
00:01:33
Speaker
The podcast's guide to the conspiracy featuring Josh Edison and Em Dintus.
00:01:44
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. I am Josh Addison. They are Dr. Ian Denteth. We are both in Auckland, but in different places today. Auckland, if you haven't been keeping up with events, is a rainy city at the best of times, and it's kind of the worst of times at the moment. It's super rainy, and there was an accident.
00:02:03
Speaker
on the Harbour Bridge, which is the way I drive to get to Em's house for recording. So you drive like it's an accident on the Harbour Bridge? Yes. You drive like it's an accident? What? There has been an accident on the place, which is where I drive. And so I could not get to Em's residence this evening for a joint in-person recording. So we're doing it over the internet, like you can even tell, probably. I don't know.
00:02:27
Speaker
I mean, there's going to be completely different sound levels. There's going to be different echoes. I mean, it's going to be very obvious that it's been recorded in two different locations. But frankly, it could also be post-production. We live in a world of deep fakes now. Who knows? It's magic. Literally anything could be literally anything else.
David Icke as a Recurring Subject
00:02:44
Speaker
So, yes, David Icke, we're going to talk about him again, because we're doing that now we were actually justified now that we've started doing our Back to the Conspiracy series, we can we can go back and revisit an old topic. And it's not us. It's not being it's not lazy hackery. It's a it's a it's a informative update on
00:03:07
Speaker
a topic that I don't know. It sounded like a good idea at the time. I mean, it is the fourth time we're covering David Icke. I don't think we've given anyone else. In one way or another, yes. I mean, have we even devoted a single entire episode to Alex Emmerich? What is Alex Jones' middle name? I was going Roland, because I was thinking Roland Emmerich, of course, Independence Day 2012, Stargate, Independence Day 2, Researchance, which is a
00:03:37
Speaker
I mean, I didn't think Independence Day was a very good film, but Independence Day, Independence Day 2, the sequel to Independence Day, they even changed the pronunciation of Independence for the sequel, Independence Day. Much more than you see on the next end. Terrible film. Truly terrible film. Never saw it, and I feel no need to. It ends with a sequel hook, and it's very likely that sequel will never be made.
00:04:03
Speaker
Hmm, probably for the best. But yes, David Eich, we're going to talk about him again, immediately after the playing of a sting.
00:04:19
Speaker
So I mean, to the extent that MH370 is the foundational text, foundational event for this podcast, David Icke is probably the foundational person for it. Well, he's the only person we've interviewed of an actual conspiracy theorist of prominence. Yes, we have. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. Now, I mean, we're talking about David Icke on
00:04:45
Speaker
as though you all know who we're talking about. And that's probably a safe assumption, but maybe... Yeah, although it's interesting. And once again, I've become very aware I say everything is interesting, but this is interesting. Everything is interesting. And I'm also aware that I now justify saying things interesting by saying that things are actually interesting. But this is a legitimate point of interest because there's someone who works on conspiracy theory theory.
00:05:12
Speaker
and rights on conspiracy theories, you would be astounded by how many people working in the field
00:05:22
Speaker
who don't know either David Icke or Alex Jones. And I don't mean personally, I just mean as prominent conspiracy theorists. Now sometimes,
Who is David Icke?
00:05:32
Speaker
and this is explained by where in the world they are, Americans are much more likely to know who Alex Jones is than they are to know who David Icke is. And conversely people in the UK and to a lesser extent the EU are more likely to know the name David Icke than Alex Jones.
00:05:49
Speaker
but I have met quite a number of people working in the field who will either go
00:05:56
Speaker
I don't know who that is, or will go, oh, I thought he died years ago and think he's a non-existent figure in the conspiracy theory community. Now, part of that is also going to be the kind of conspiracy theories that people are interested in. If you're the kind of person who's interested in QAnon conspiracy theories, David Icke really doesn't feature that much in that type of conspiracy theorizing
00:06:24
Speaker
or discussion of the attendant conspiracy theories. So there will be people who are long-term listeners to this podcast who are interested in conspiracy theories who will go, I think I've heard the name.
00:06:39
Speaker
But I don't know who that is. So Josh, tell me, why are we talking about an old English footballer? Well, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I could, I know sort of in the, in the scare quotes mainstream society, David Icke is not a person who many people have heard of. I would have thought if you've been listening to this podcast for not too long of an amount of time, we mention him enough that you must get the idea, but
00:07:04
Speaker
It's probably, yeah, I don't know. It's been quite a long time since we've actually gone right back to the basics and who he is and what he says and where he started. So David Icke started playing football, that's soccer if you're American, in England in the 1960s. He sounded like he had a bit of a promising career ahead of him. But unfortunately, he developed rheumatoid arthritis in his knee and had to retire in 1973, aged just 21. And from there, he pivoted into journalism.
00:07:34
Speaker
and sort of worked his way up from newspapers, I think, and by 1981 he was a sports reporter for Newsnight on the BBC.
00:07:44
Speaker
And from then on, he had a bunch of various other sports presenter roles. I think he was like a reporter for the Commonwealth Games or the Olympic Games one year and things like that. He would eventually be dumped by the BBC in 1991 for refusing to pay the poll tax, which I never quite understood what the poll tax was, but I'm given to believe it was a bad
00:08:05
Speaker
That's a good point. As you continue explaining the life of this kit poll tax... Margaret Thatcher is sort of introducing some sort of a flat tax thing, but I gather you... A fixed tax per adult resident, although there was a reduction for poor people. This is from the Wikipedia page poll tax in Great Britain. So the Community Charge, commonly known as the poll tax, was a system of taxation introduced by Thatcher
00:08:34
Speaker
In replacement of domestic rates in Scotland from 1989 prior to its introduction in England and Wales from 1990, it provided for a single flat rate per capita tax on every adult at a rate set by the local authority. The charge was replaced by the Council tax in 1993, two years after its abolition was announced. So I gather it was thought by me to be deeply unfair
00:08:59
Speaker
And so, as we'll talk about in just a second, David Eichs... Yeah, so basically they went from a payment per household to a payment per individual. Anyway, not what we're here to talk about today. In the 1980s, he started to get into alternative medicines, I think largely looking for a decent treatment for his arthritic knee, and he sort of
00:09:22
Speaker
became progressively just alternative in general. He, speaking of his politics, he joined the Green Party, the British Green Party, and became, I'm not sure if he was actually a candidate for them, but he was a vocal spokesperson for them. And this all culminated in a trip to Peru in 1991, where he had some sort of
00:09:43
Speaker
spiritual awakening of some kind, came back and flanked by his family, held a press conference in 1991 where he announced that he was a son of the Godhead and that among other things the world was going to end in 1997. Now it is important to point out that 1991 was the year that Terminator 2 was released
00:10:04
Speaker
and both Terminator 2 and the original said that the world was going to end in 1997. So maybe he was just getting his wires crossed a little bit there. Well, as we'll discuss, David Icke really likes watching films. He does. And feels that films contain within them coded messages by the people who roll us. Who roll us? Yeah. The people who roll us. Yep. The people who keep on rolling us. And also rule us from behind the scenes. Rolling and rolling.
00:10:33
Speaker
those ruling rulers or rolling rulers always doing their business behind clothes curtains. So yes, he'd been into some sort of slightly weird hippy-dippy stuff, which was getting sort of progressively so, but it wasn't until this time in 1991 that he sort of became this figurehead of conspiracy theories because of the Wogan interview. Tell me about the Wogan interview.
00:10:57
Speaker
So Terry Wogan was, I think he's dead. I haven't actually checked because it doesn't really matter for this part of the story. He was a media personality in the UK and he had the show Wogan, where he interviewed prominent people. And one of the prominent people he interviewed was one David Icke who died in 2016. There we go. Thank you. So he's very definitely dead and probably not coming back soon.
00:11:26
Speaker
So he interviews David Icke in part because Icke has made the news about his kind of weird claims. So Icke comes onto the show wearing a purple or violet shell suit. That's one of those nylon-y, trek-suit-y things, yeah.
00:11:49
Speaker
And also a word that speech disfluency makes out to pronounce. His gel suit. And Wogan presses him on the, you know...
00:11:58
Speaker
do you really think that you're the reincarnation of God, the second coming of the Messiah, et cetera, et cetera? And David Icke says, yes. And one thing we can say about British culture is they don't like people lauding it above other people. And this, of course, would turn out to be the king, at which point you're allowed to have a massively expensive and pointless coronation. But if you claim to be the second coming of the Messiah, the British people are going to think you've got ideas above your station.
00:12:28
Speaker
and they're going to make fun of you. No, anoint someone with with ultimate in order to give them the divine right to rule a country. That's fine. Claim to be the second coming of the Messiah. No, apparently that is well beyond our kin. As you can tell, I have views about the monarchy. Really? And it was about being a Republican.
00:12:49
Speaker
So, yeah, he admits to being the second coming of the Messiah, the reincarnation of the Godhead, et cetera, et cetera, and basically gets laughed out of British society, such that he actually leaves the UK. I believe he goes to Africa for quite some time and then reemerges, I think, five to eight years afterwards and begins the current trajectory we'll be talking about of David Icke, the modern conspiracy theory theorist
Icke's Public Ridicule and Rise in Popularity
00:13:18
Speaker
phenomena.
00:13:18
Speaker
But he started writing books fairly quickly because that was so that the interview was 91 and then the press conference was 91 and then the Wogan interview was also 91. I think he released his first book in like 93, 94. So he did start writing fairly quickly. That's the Rise of the Robots.
00:13:36
Speaker
I think Rise of the Robots was the second one, that was the second one, yeah. Sorry, the Robots Rebellion, I think is the second one. I think Rise of the Robots was that really crappy beat-em-up on the Amiga 500.
00:13:51
Speaker
thing got ported to the CD32. But yes, so he did, he became a national laughing stock in very short order. He like these days, these days, he's, he's, um, he's certainly capable of laughing to himself or laughing about himself. And these days,
00:14:11
Speaker
I mean, the first time I saw footage of the Wogan interview was at one of the David Icke talks I attended. So David Icke played a snippet of the interview and was making fun of himself as it was being played by making fun of what he was wearing at the time, what he was saying at the time, and the arrogance of having that kind of belief.
00:14:37
Speaker
So David Icke will admit he made a huge blunder in 1991, but the blunder he made was not understanding the message he was being told rather than exactly what he said at the time.
00:14:53
Speaker
So, yes, he starts putting out books. He starts putting out a lot of books. It makes me think about a book a year. Yeah, well, initially, so I'm just looking at his bibliography here, he wrote five books between 1992 and 1994.
00:15:10
Speaker
Four of his books were published in 1993, I think. So, yeah, he turned out a whole bunch of them in quick order and then has, as you say, basically been putting out one a year ever since, and has kind of built himself quite the following. He was a good adopter of the internet, I think, when it came to
00:15:31
Speaker
sort of spreading his views and what have you. And now he's a person who can go. Yes, you're quite right, Josh. He is a person. He is definitely still a person. He's very definitely a person who can go from country to country on these speaking tours, putting on shows that will be relatively well attended. Well, I mean...
00:15:46
Speaker
He gave a talk in Wembley last year, which had, I think, about 90,000 people at hand. And the two talks he's given in Auckland that I've attended have been relative to the population quite well attended. I think the last talk I attended, which was in 2016, there was about 800 people in attendance.
00:16:11
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, he does have quite a following. He's not, again, he perhaps doesn't have a mainstream level of fame, but lots of people know who he is, and lots of people are very interested in what he has to say. So maybe we should talk about what he has to say. I guess perhaps a quick summary. We first talked about David, and I can either so 10
00:16:33
Speaker
of this very podcast, all the way back in July of 2014. And we basically just gave a bit of an overview of the guy who he is, what does he believe? How sincere is he in his beliefs, which we might want to come back to. We might indeed. We interviewed him. So as Em said, we've spoken to the man himself. I say we've spoken to him. I think we uttered some words and then his autopilot engaged and he gave 15 minute answers.
00:17:01
Speaker
He did. Yes, I mean, he was like, we, I remember it beforehand, we sort of said to our listeners at the time, if you have any questions, we want to ask him, put them through. And, and then, and so we'd asked him a bunch of stuff, often, you know, there are longer lines of, you know, how can you be so sure of this? What are you wrong? Why haven't they gotten rid of you, these these nefarious forces who you think run the world and stuff?
00:17:25
Speaker
And we've got these two. And he basically, because he's been doing this since the 90s, he had none of our questions were in any way original. No, no, exactly. So afterwards, some some of our listeners commented that they would have liked to have seen us sort of challenge him on his views a bit more. But we were kind of the opinion that he kind of he isn't really challengeable.
00:17:51
Speaker
like he has an answer for everything and a lot of it isn't stuff that can be sort of you know refuted other than by saying that's patently obviously nonsense um and he'd just say once again 15 minute long answers even it's so basically it's the gish gallop
00:18:12
Speaker
You ask David Icke a simple question, he gives you a very, very long answer. And then you can criticize him on small aspects of that long answer. But he will always have the victory in the end because his answer was so long, there's no way to criticize the entire thing. You can narrow your focus and go, but what about this thing? And then he'll give you another 10 to 15 minute long answer as to why you're wrong to criticize him on that thing.
00:18:38
Speaker
And basically, there is no easy way in an interview format to be able to challenge David Eich. We felt it was a much better situation to simply let our listeners hear what David Eich had to say. And it should be said, he's a lovely man to talk to. He's very, he's very, very personable, very, very friendly to chat to. But yes, he's one of the nicer antisemites we've had conversations with.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, we'll get to the anti-Semitism as well. And then the last time we devoted a full episode to him was then episode 111 in August 2016, which is when you attended his talk that had been given here recently. Just before I went to Romania for the first time.
00:19:22
Speaker
Indeed, and gave us a report on that. And also when I almost died. Yes, that was, I mean, there's no way to sugarcoat it, almost entirely my fault. We had recorded an episode the week before when I had been sort of coming down with a cold, which of course locking myself in a room with M for an hour or so of recording,
00:19:48
Speaker
almost definitely infected you with it. And then you went off to David Icke's thing, which was what, eight hours long? Something like that. I felt fine in the morning, but halfway through the first section, so about mid-morning, I get that kind of scratch in the back of my throat and my nasal passages start to feel as if they're conchilling. And then as the day went on,
00:20:14
Speaker
I was going, yeah, I almost feel feverish now. I'm in a large, I mean, it was at the Auckland Event Centre, which is just a large metal building with no heating whatsoever. So I was freezing cold, feeling fear, and I mean, this is in August, which is a cold month in Auckland.
00:20:36
Speaker
Anyway, it's getting increasingly sick trying to concentrate on what David Ike is going to say because David Ike's arguments basically are one long slippery slope argument. So you want to spend some time trying to track if A then B, if B then C,
00:20:56
Speaker
if C then D and go all right so what's the likelihood of A to B in the first place let alone B to C and also how possible was A because now we're already on B as if A is true so feeling more and more ill and the people I was with at the time were going look it's fine if we think you're actually about to collapse and die we'll just make sure that we drag you up on stage so you can die at David Ike's feet and so that can be kind of your memorial
00:21:25
Speaker
They died at the feet of their hero. That was the last time we had a full episode just devoted to David Icke, but we have done several episodes in the past where we've gone and taken a look at the websites of various conspiracy theorists to see what sort of things they're up to, and David Icke.com has always been one of those websites.
00:21:44
Speaker
But now we're back to talking about the man full time for an episode. So I mean, yeah, his his actual beliefs. So the I'm probably sure this is true for you. It's definitely true for me. And I think I think for a lot of people, the first we heard about David Ike was he's the reptilian shapeshifter's guy.
Icke's Reptilian Theory and Pop Culture Influence
00:22:01
Speaker
He's the guy who says that the world is run by shapeshifting reptilian aliens who dominate all the sort of the families, the
00:22:12
Speaker
The bloodlines that secretly run the world. Particularly the Jewish bloodlines that allegedly run the world. So yes, so there was a lot of it. So he said, like, here we go, here's an interview.
00:22:29
Speaker
from 2006 actually. I thought it would have been a bit older than that. He says, when you get back into the ancient world you find this recurring theme of a union between a non-human race and humans creating a hybrid race. From 1998 I started coming across people who told me they had seen people change into a non-human form. It's an age-old phenomenon known as shape-shifting. The basic form is like a scaly humanoid with reptilian rather than humanoid eyes.
00:22:54
Speaker
And that was the attention getting bit. That was the thing that people would hear and go, hang on, I want to hear about more of this. There was a lot more. There is a lot more of this. And would that he were only saying
00:23:11
Speaker
the world is controlled by shapeshifting aliens. That would be quite enough. But he says a lot more, a lot more than that, and has built upon his views as the world goes on. But what sort of other stuff is there? Well, you know, whilst we're on the alien shapeshifting reptiles, and we've already mentioned how
00:23:28
Speaker
David Eich likes his media. It's very interesting to note that in 1983, the first V miniseries played. Now, for those of you who don't remember, in 1983, weren't born in 1983, or don't know about classic science fiction from the early 80s, V, the miniseries, was predicated on the idea that an alien race
00:23:54
Speaker
comes to Earth, claiming that they're going to give humans wealth, prosperity and unlimited food.
00:24:02
Speaker
And it turns out that even though they look human, they're simply wearing human skin suits, because beneath those suits are alien, reptiloid facial features, and also their hair to consume humans and drink their blood. And strangely enough, David Eich's theory about the reptilians is that they coddle particular people
00:24:28
Speaker
into thinking that actually the shape-shifting reptilians are here to promote human prosperity, but really their secret plan is to dominate us all. It's kind of intriguing that around about the time that the mini-series comes out, David Eich starts to become really, really interested
00:24:48
Speaker
in alien shapeshifting reptiles. And after The Matrix came out, he got a lot more into the idea that reality is not as we perceive it. And when I saw him in 2016, he was really, really big on the notion of the Hunger Games Society, that the world government was going to divide the world up.
00:25:11
Speaker
into particular zones of production and then make us compete against one another. It does seem that every single time that David Icke watches a bit of pop culture he goes, oh,
00:25:26
Speaker
this is evident of what they are up to, because Davidite belongs to that long tradition of that particular kind of conspiracy theorist who believes that the people who are in control of our society cannot help themselves, but put clues to their plots in popular culture, in artistic works, in books and the like.
00:25:51
Speaker
Now, he gets a lot more cosmic, I guess you'd say, in his theories about the nature of reality. He talks about the universe being made up of vibrational energy and that we can tune into different wavelengths. Both good and bad vibrations. And we're talking here about bad vibrations.
00:26:11
Speaker
kind of similar to the Gateway Project stuff we were talking about last week, but you can tune your mind into these different things and that because of we're all just made up of this vibrational
Icke's Unkillable Belief and Moon-Saturn Theory
00:26:24
Speaker
energy. As I recall, when we asked him the question, if you're out there telling these truths about the nefarious forces that run the world, why haven't they tried to silence you? Why do you still draw breath? And his
00:26:37
Speaker
So basically it was along the lines of that I can't be killed because I'm just energy as we all are and I can't be neither destroyed nor created. There's nothing they can do to me because my energy will always exist at me.
00:26:54
Speaker
It would be true of everyone, at which point, what is the whole point of eliminating anyone? Well, exactly. But there's a lot of, you know, time is an illusion. It's just an infinite now. And then there's the whole, there's the other aspects of his cosmology. He thinks the moon's not real.
00:27:13
Speaker
Or at least the moon is artificial. Yes, so the moon is the moon is a satellite of the earth. He is willing to say that, but it's not a natural satellite. It is in fact a space station, much like the Death Star. In fact, he will actually use diagrams of the Death Star.
00:27:30
Speaker
when talking about the fact the Moon is a hollow satellite orbiting the Earth, you will then focus on the idea that John Carpenter, the director of They Live, was also a special effects designer on the original Star Wars film and go, well look, They Live is the kind of urtex it shows us.
00:27:51
Speaker
that we are being controlled by alien reptiles from beyond the stars and John Carpenter thus is a prophet and thus the design of the Death Star which of course must be John Carpenter's design is an indication he's showing us that the moon is actually a artificial satellite. It should be pointed out there was a John Carpenter who worked on Star Wars and New Hope. It is not the same John Carpenter
00:28:17
Speaker
as the director of They Live. David Icke does not believe that people can have the same name but be different individuals. If you've got the same name, you must be the same person. Now, the moon is repeating a signal from the planet Saturn. Now, Josh, when I say Saturn, what does that suggest to you? Shiny bedsheets. Ah, knights and white Saturn.
00:28:45
Speaker
exactly no but you should be thinking satan yes no i well i'm just always thinking satan you see so when you ask me to come up with something something something exceptional that's that's where my mind goes otherwise it's all satan the planet satan is broadcasting a signal which is picked up by the moon
00:29:05
Speaker
and then amplified onto Earth to create the perception that we are living in a decaying reality. Because according to David Icke, climate change is one of the ultimate conspiracies being foisted upon the human people
00:29:23
Speaker
on the prison planet that we live on and that we are being convinced the world is falling into environmental ruin but that is the signal from Satan persuading us to believe the world is actually decaying when if we were to break the signal and see the world as it is we would realize that we live in a land of milk and honey
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting. Again, leaving aside the anti-Semitism for a moment, we will get into that. When I'd heard him speak in when I sort of heard what he talks about in previous times, it was often quite a quite a positive message, or at least it wasn't like, you know, like your QAnons or other other things who talk about how there are these this this New World Order or whatever you want, these evil forces who secretly control the world. And the
00:30:13
Speaker
the message is, you know, we have to resist, we have to take action, we have to go shoot up a pizza place because we think there's child slaves in the basement or something. Whereas David Icke's message has always sort of been, we just need to, we just all need to love each other, man. We just need to come together and generate positive vibes.
00:30:32
Speaker
Now, I think perhaps we may have reached the point of a Back to the Conspiracy episode where we need to start looking at how things have changed since we last visited this topic, because in more recent times it certainly seems that his message has become more overtly negative in terms of climate change denial.
Controversial Views and Accusations of Antisemitism
00:30:51
Speaker
in terms of anti-vax, Covid stuff, anti-lockdown stuff, he seems to be a lot less about positive vibes than he used to be. Yeah, so as you point out, his message, even though it's always been little odd,
00:31:07
Speaker
a bit anti-Semitic, and by a bit we'll be talking about that soon. And you have to admit there I am really putting air quotes around a bit. But he's always been of the opinion, until recently, that the best way to escape the system of control being foisted upon us by the Archons or the alien shapeshifting reptiles
00:31:28
Speaker
is to simply think positively and break the control they have over us. So he's been of the opinion that as long as people start thinking synchronistically together all the time, then the system of control that's been foisted upon us will be broken. Now in the age of COVID,
00:31:50
Speaker
that story seems a little broken itself because we haven't really talked about David Icke, well, basically since 2016. And between 2016 and now, there's been a COVID pandemic.
00:32:07
Speaker
And David Eich has kind of come back into prominence. Now, I was trying to work out whether he's ever actually lost any of his cachet. Certainly, I think for a lot of people, David Eich was kind of considered a relic of an earlier age of conspiracy theorizing.
00:32:26
Speaker
But David Icke is big again in the UK and he's big again in the UK because he's the face of COVID protest or at least one of the prominent faces of COVID process because he was really, really big.
00:32:44
Speaker
on the notion that A, the COVID lockdowns were an affront to human dignity, and B, COVID isn't real. And he's, there's the anti-COVID stuff, there's the anti-climate change denial type stuff. And then I gather he's getting into the anti-trans stuff as well. Oh, yes, yes. He's really big on gender.
00:33:11
Speaker
and by being really big on gender, he's really big on gender binaries. And the thing is, I used to associate him with being a guy who sort of, he charted his own course, he was off doing his own weird thing, and yet in recent times it feels like he's just doing a hell of a lot more bandwagon jumping.
00:33:32
Speaker
all of these things that he's talking about are the things that dozens of other sort of, you know, right wing media types are going on about because they all know it's a good way to get attention now. And I mean, he's always, there's always been the question of how sincere he is in terms of how much of this is stuff he really believes and how much of it is a way for him to make money selling his books and doing his speaking performances that seems to just feels a lot more a lot more naked in his
00:33:59
Speaker
attempt to just jump onto a thing that he knows is going to get him lots of clicks. I mean, I guess if we're going to talk about the anti-Semitism, this is the right time to talk about it. Because on one respect, yes, it always seemed like David Eight was a unique figure.
00:34:16
Speaker
in the conspiracy theory landscape because he was, depending on who you talk to, the originator of the notion of alien shapeshifting reptiles. Although people will point out that there was a Romanian, Lauren Fortuna, who had a similar notion. You look at the OTO and the idea of controlling pals in the background there.
00:34:37
Speaker
and that seems to come in. I mean, you look at Scientology and the notion of who was actually in control of human civilization, and there's actually a whole bunch of pre-David Ike conspirat- uh, conspiratuality or religious beliefs, which actually have a lot of the same aspects, but he kind of made it into a package as delivered by David Ike. And yet at the same time,
00:35:03
Speaker
One of the recurring or recurrent features of David Eich's view is that there are certain families who are in control of the world and imposing their control upon other people
00:35:25
Speaker
And it just turns out, for some reason, that the names of these families are associated with prominent Jewish families that have been the targets of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories going back
00:35:40
Speaker
since time immemorial, or at least for the last few hundred years. Yes. And that's not unique to David Icke. That is stuff which predates David Icke, which he's been trading upon for a very long time. Yes, so the earliest stuff I used to hear about David Icke
00:35:57
Speaker
that would be, here's a guy who says that prominent, influential families throughout the world secretly shape-shifting, blood-drinking, reptilian aliens, or the hybrid offspring of the shape-shifting aliens.
00:36:14
Speaker
And people would say, okay, well, we've heard this before. When you say the world's controlled by shape-shifting reptiles, what you really mean is the world's controlled by Jews, don't you? It's just like a metaphor. Especially when those families are the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers, and you go, I mean, you're not even hiding it. Yeah, I mean, he did. Jewish families as emblematic of the families who control us.
00:36:41
Speaker
At the time, I mean, he also included the Bushes and the British royal family, but yeah, he... But all claiming that they're all related. Yes, that's the thing. So then you get crypto anti-Semitism, the idea that, oh, I'm not talking about the Jews, but I am saying they're related to Jewish people.
00:37:01
Speaker
And early on, yeah, you get the claim, he says the world's controlled by shape-shifting realises, but shape-shifting reptiles, but really he means the world's controlled by Jews. And then people would look into him, the stuff he said, and look at his 91 interview and the sorts of crazy stuff he said. And I actually think this guy really does believe in shape-shifting reptiles, but who just coincidentally appear to belong to
00:37:27
Speaker
families with Jewish names. Now he has tried to defend himself with this by saying I don't hate Jews, I simply hate alien shape-shifting reptiles who happen to be in Jewish families. Yes. So what he's basically saying he hates alien shape-shifting reptiles and if they happen to be Jewish as well was the hatred of the alien shape-shifting reptiles driving the bigger tree, not the Jewishness driving the bigger tree.
00:37:57
Speaker
Yes, that will be his line. He doesn't hate the Jewish people in any way, shape or form. He hates the shape-shifting reptilian, some of whom happen to be Jews. I'd never looked back at some of the earliest stuff he was writing about. I didn't realise that there was some stuff right there from the start. His book, the one you mentioned, The Robot's Rebellion, his book from 1994,
00:38:24
Speaker
And not the computer game Rise of the Robots, as far as I'm aware, is not antisemitic. It's just a pile of crap, as I recall. It doesn't need antisemitism to make it any worse than it was. But the robots' rebellion explicitly refers to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
00:38:42
Speaker
when he talks about the shadowy cabal, potentially extraterrestrial cabal who actually runs the world. And again, he'll run the line that, yeah, I'm about these evil reptilians. I'm not being anti-Semitic. I'm just saying what I believe about these much more weird esoteric cosmic extraterrestrial stuff.
00:39:11
Speaker
But the fact that he refers specifically to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which is a known forgery and a known specifically anti-Semitic forgery, you can't really talk your way out of that. There are the people these days who upon being pointed out that yes, Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery. They say, well, yes, the document itself may have been constructed, but it's spiritually true. The things it's talking about are actually true.
00:39:38
Speaker
the Kerry-Boulton line. Yes, we know it's a fake, but we also know it's a fake based upon a spiritual truth. Yes. So, and then in his 1995 book, In the Truth, She'll Set You Free, he now I don't think it would be fair to say he engaged in Holocaust denial. He didn't deny the Holocaust at any point, but he does question some aspects of it. He was asking a lot of questions about it.
00:40:03
Speaker
In particular, he claims that in part it was funded by, again, this small group of influential Jewish families. Not all Jews, you know, that's what he'll say. Again, he's not saying Jews are responsible for the Holocaust, but he's saying some people who happen to be Jews
00:40:21
Speaker
were behind the Holocaust to an extent and it's just, yeah, I didn't realise he had gone that far into it from an early age. And the thing that gets me though is even if you haven't read his early works and seen all this sort of stuff, it's 2023, he's been doing this stuff for getting close to 40 years now. He must know that even if he, even if genuinely in his heart of hearts, he honestly believes
00:40:49
Speaker
he's talking about an evil group of people that has nothing to do with the Jewish people whatsoever. He must know that the sorts of tropes he's trafficking in are identical to long-established anti-Semitic tropes, and that people who genuinely are anti-Semitic will be using the sorts of things he says to further their views. So even in that case, I don't see how he can justify
00:41:15
Speaker
that line of claims. Yeah, the thing which astounded me, because I've been to two of his talks, I've sat through 16 hours of David Eich talking to me and others about the conspiracy to control the world, is that yes, I've seen him
00:41:32
Speaker
deny being an anti-Semite and claiming variously that he only hates alien shapeshifting reptiles, and it's not his fault that they've infiltrated prominent Jewish families, or that his real issue is Zionist and not Judaism, so really his ire is towards Zionists, not Jewish people in general.
00:41:55
Speaker
So he's tried very hard from time to time, and I'm not saying he succeeded, but he's tried very hard to separate his views from classical anti-Semitism. But I've been to two of his talks, and in his talks he has a slideshow, and that slideshow is made up of art that he is commissioned
00:42:14
Speaker
to use in those slideshows, or fans have drawn, which he's included. And those slideshows contain classic anti-Semitic tropes from the classic caricature of the money-hungry Jew, the one with the long nose and the fingers which are kind of tinkling beneath the nose to kind of show greed, the use of
00:42:40
Speaker
the Star of David in the background, he is still knowingly using anti-Semitic imagery in his talks to this day, which I think kind of underlines the notion that, yes, he claims he's not an anti-Semite, and he claims his real hatred is for the alien shape-shifting reptiles or just the Zionists, but he is happy, even if he believes that,
00:43:09
Speaker
to use anti-Semitic tropes in his talks because he knows there are certain people attending them who want that message out there, that the real threat to the world is the Jewish person. And the real conspiracy is that being run by the Jewish people.
00:43:30
Speaker
So, yeah, other developments since last we really looked into him.
Claims About Jimmy Savile and Career Parallels with Elon Musk
00:43:37
Speaker
I know this is something we've mentioned in the past, but one of the things that David liked, because he's always been going on about the elites being the elites who control us being horrible people, one of the things he's got a lot of mileage out of has been the idea that once the truth came out about Jimmy Savile,
00:43:55
Speaker
He was like, ah, yes, well, you see, I'd always been warning you. I've always been telling people about Jimmy Savile. I was right about him. So what else am I right about? To give Alex Jones his due. He has talked about the notion of there being pedophiles in government since time immemorial.
00:44:13
Speaker
as has almost every single conspiracy theorist of his ilk done since time immemorial you always blame the political elites as being child groomers which i think one of the reasons why he's so fond of being a turf because he can now make the claim
00:44:29
Speaker
that, you know, there's child grooming going on in schools. It's those damn trans activists causing all the child grooming to go on. It's a useful canard to say that your enemies are not just bad, they're perverted as well.
00:44:45
Speaker
But the thing is, it was pointed out more recently that there's no real record of him publicly talking about Jimmy Savile until after Savile's death. There's no record of him in any of the talks he's given prior to the revelations about Jimmy Savile coming out, that he made any claims about Jimmy Savile, and none of his written material, which is all accessible,
00:45:14
Speaker
mentioned Seville at all until after the revelations have been made. So Ike is saying, I've been warning people about Seville since time immemorial, but there's no evidence of that being true. I mean, possibly he's had private conversations with people and he worked at the BBC, so it is possible he knew about Seville's activities because we now know that the BBC was part
00:45:40
Speaker
of the cover-up of Savile's activities. There was no one he was engaging in rumbdoings. And the British government and the BBC did their best to make those stories disappear. But if Ike was warning people, he was not warning people publicly. Yes. Yeah. I mean, one of the frustrating things about the whole Jimmy Savile affair is that lots of people had heard the story. It seemed like everyone had heard the stories about him.
00:46:08
Speaker
but nobody, certainly nobody who was in a position to investigate to see if there was any truth to them did so. And the people who did sort of pass these rumors around just sort of would not follow them up in any significant way. So yeah, I mean, I- Or they were passed around as kind of a whisper network of be aware of Jimmy Savile, because remember he was a major media personality in the UK.
00:46:36
Speaker
and had the ability to make or break careers. So the idea of speaking out against someone who was so beloved by the British public, you might have attempted to reveal what he was doing, but it could have ended very badly for you. So yeah, I mean, I have no problem believing that David Icke had heard the stories about Jimmy Savile and had passed them on, but he doesn't seem he ever actually did so in a public way.
00:47:03
Speaker
Until afterwards. And Alex Jones has done the same thing about Jeffrey Epstein. Alex Jones claims he was warning people about Epstein well before Epstein committed suicide or was killed in his prison cell. And people have gone back and gone, I mean, doesn't seem to have been mentioning Epstein at all until after his arrest.
00:47:25
Speaker
So there seems to be a kind of tradition amongst certain conspiracy theorists' media personalities to backport things they've just found out about to say, oh, I was always right about that. I had my suspicions. I was right about that person. I never told anyone about it, but I was right about them. And also I did tell people about it. You just weren't listening at the time, Josh.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yes, no, no. Well, I mean, if it was Alex Jones, I mean, the first thing I ever said to you when we met during our BA's is that Jimmy Saville and Jeffrey Epstein don't trust them. And I bet you don't remember that. I have to confess, I don't know.
00:48:04
Speaker
I mean, it was a very strange thing for me. It was kind of an odd thing to the very first thing you say to a human being you've only just met. But yeah, understandable, I guess. No, I mean, I just feel you need to warn people. You're telling people about the dangers of these people since time immemorial. I'm just like David Icke and Alex Jones. Almost exactly. Almost exactly. Bar a few fairly significant details.
00:48:31
Speaker
But yeah, so I mean, to be honest, I find David Eike a bit depressing these days. He, you know, earlier on, he seemed to be this guy with his wacky views, ultimately spreading a message of love and harmony. Yeah, I was gonna say about whom the worst you could say is that he definitely appeared to be in deep denial.
00:48:54
Speaker
to himself over the true character of some of the stuff he was saying. And now he just kind of seems like just another one of these right wing attention grabbers. He's coming out with largely all the same talking points, the same as the ones that pop up everywhere else.
00:49:15
Speaker
and his messages seems to be a lot more negative. It's just... I wonder whether, and I'm thinking now of something was going around on social media a few days ago, so someone was making the claim that Elon Musk is turning out to be Henry Ford. Henry Ford, in his early days of seeing as a visionary pioneer,
00:49:39
Speaker
and then has come to be known as a conspiracy theorist and anti-Semite slash friend to Nazis. And Elon Musk!
00:49:49
Speaker
when we knew very little about him, visionary pioneer invented lots of important technologies, and now we see him as someone who didn't invent those technologies, he simply bought his way into those companies, and he's also a conspiracy theorist and a friend of Nazi's, given the way he's running Twitter now. And I imagine the thing about David Eich
00:50:12
Speaker
is that we've come to know a lot about David Icke. You talked about how David Icke was a canny user of the internet. And I think that has been both a boon and a downfall for David Icke. Because on one hand, David Icke's use of the internet has allowed him to extend his reach a lot further than if he'd simply remained, say, a radio personality or writer of books.
00:50:40
Speaker
It also means we now have a very, very large reference library of things that David Icke has said. And it's one of those bits of mounting evidence where you get to a point where you go, I mean,
00:50:55
Speaker
every so often he seems to touch on anti-Semitism and now we're at the point of going it's not every so often he touches on anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism seems to be very much ingrained in his world view. So the more we learn about Ike the more
00:51:16
Speaker
desultory our views on Ike turn out to be. In the same respect, the more we learn about Elon Musk, the more we realize that those early stories about how Elon Musk were great, that's just propaganda. Yeah. Another aspect of the internet, perhaps, is one thing about David Ike's views is that, as we suggested with the way he so enthusiastically adopts various pop culture as influences of his theories,
00:51:44
Speaker
His theories have often developed by just drawing in all these different things. I remember many years ago reading a thing, reading some of his earlier stuff, and he's got these reptilian shapeshifters.
00:51:58
Speaker
And then a few years later, it had now expanded into, well, there's the reptilian aliens, and then there are these other ones from this planet. And it suddenly became this great space opera about how you had all these different alien races coming from throughout the cosmos and vying for control amongst themselves and so on. And a lot of it seemed to have come from, he comes up with his theory, and then someone else says, it's basically, I always just come back to the reverse vampires thing from The Simpsons when
00:52:27
Speaker
the kids are coming up with a, trying to come up with a theory for why their parents are all acting strangely. And they all have a bunch of different theories, and then it sort of cuts back to a little bit later. And they've managed to get all of the theories and stick them all together into one thing, including Lisa's completely sarcastic remark about maybe their parents are reverse vampires and they can't go out during the night. It seems a bit like that. And being on the internet, he had even more people sort of feeding him all sorts of other weird stuff.
00:52:57
Speaker
that got added into his views and these days it's it's just just a lot of a lot of this white right wing white as well just right your right wing grifter bollocks basically
00:53:12
Speaker
It also sounds a lot like bad improv, where the principle of improv is yes and. So with your improv partner, you mean to take everything they say and go yes and, rather than block them by going no. And David Eink and Alex Jones, I think to a very large extent, are good examples of the, oh yes, you must be right, and here's another thing.
00:53:37
Speaker
which is the you must be right. But I know even more about this than you do as they make up something to explain why they know something that they didn't know before. If you listen to Knowledge Fight, there's a there are great clips of Alex Jones. Alex, have you heard about X? And there'll be this pause where you can tell Alex is going
00:53:57
Speaker
I've never heard that before, but he will then, oh yes, of course I know about this, and then we'll make up something to try and show he knows more about it than the caller does. Now, that being said, David Eich has changed his mind on some things, as we mentioned. He no longer thinks of himself as the Messiah. He admits he was hearing a voice at the time, but he misinterpreted what the voice was telling him. So he's changed his view on things.
00:54:25
Speaker
He's also been prominently against certain conspiracy theories. He was very dead set against 2012 Doomsday conspiracy theories back in 2011 and early 2012. He was of the opinion that those theories made no sense, they conflicted with what he already knew about the world.
00:54:48
Speaker
So it's not as if he adopts everything he's heard and makes it into one gestalt. There are certain things he will go, no actually that doesn't fit with my cosmology, I'm going to throw that one out. So yeah, an interesting guy, but one who I think I feel has gone significantly downhill over the course of
COVID Conspiracy Theories and Popularity in the UK
00:55:13
Speaker
his career.
00:55:13
Speaker
And yet, can still get 90,000. Well, yes, yes, he hasn't gone down until in terms of popularity. No, I'd say he's I think he's become slightly more popular in the UK, due to him pivoting towards COVID lockdown conspiracy theories. Yep, definitely.
00:55:33
Speaker
So I think that's all we have to say about David Icke this time. Who knows when we'll get back into him again, but I don't doubt that we will. So that's the end of this episode I think, but of course there is a bonus episode for our beloved patrons, the the shiniest and most sweet smelling of people.
00:55:54
Speaker
Now, there's been some interesting, I was going to say Ukraine, it really happened in Russia, really interesting developments with the Russian-Ukraine conflict that nobody... Possibly a false flag. Possibly even. We should talk about that. And then perhaps we should also, once again, go and have a look at David Icke's website and actually report on precisely what it is he's saying today. So if you want to hear us reacting in real time to the contents of davidicke.com,
00:56:22
Speaker
Something you couldn't do at home yourself. You couldn't just go to David Icke's website and react to those articles yourself. You want to hear us reacting to it, obviously. Where's the fun in just reading someone's website, honestly? So go sign yourself up as a patron. If you're not one already, you can just go to Betrayon.com and search for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy.
00:56:42
Speaker
But if you're not a patron, we hope this episode was informative. We hope if you'd had heard of David Ike, you've you've you've learned something you didn't know. And if you hadn't heard of David Ike before, I imagine this may have been something of an experience. But I don't think we have anything else to say right now. So I'm just going to just going to say goodbye. I don't think we still like Ike. In fact, I'm not sure we ever liked Ike to begin with.
00:57:16
Speaker
You've been listening to Podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy, hosted by Josh Ederson and Imdentit. If you'd like to help support us, please find details at our pledge drive at either Patreon or Podbean. If you'd like to get in contact with us, email us at podcastconspiracy at gmail.com.
00:57:48
Speaker
Marty, we gotta go back to the conspiracy.