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The Dragon Reborn by Robert Jordan
18 Plays1 day ago
Jessica Camacho is back as we continue our way through The Wheel of Time! In this episode, Jessica finally joins Team Mat, and we both marvel at the awesomeness and ridiculousness of our teenage protagonists.
Theme music created by Skips A Beat Music.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Mandemonium, a podcast where I, your host Mandy, talk to guests about their favorite works of fiction, whether that be books, movies, TV shows, or more. Today I have on Jessica Camacho to continue our discussion of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time with book three, The Dragon Reborn.
00:00:35
Speaker
Jessica, welcome back on our continued discussion of The Wheel of Time. Thank you for having me. So we just finished The Dragon Reborn, which is the third book out of 14. I'm so proud of myself. And then out of 14, it's like so long to go. Yeah. So for those listening, if you watched the show on Amazon Prime, aspects of this book,
00:01:03
Speaker
were pulled in to that show for season two but season two and this book are definitely not the same thing so no uh season two is definitely ends with the climax of book two which we talked about last time but there are characters that they pull forward, a couple of sequences that I'm i'm sure we'll highlight and talk about. But in case all you've watched is the show, there are going to be things that we're going to be talking about that are going to be
00:01:39
Speaker
that may or may not show up someday and show up.
Favorite Book and Spoilers Alert
00:01:44
Speaker
So i yeah, this is actually one of my favorite Wheel of Time books. I think it's the favorite of that I've read so far for sure. Like it escalated, like things got real. i Okay, so spoilers here on out. Spoilers for The Dragon Reborn and every book that comes before it. Spoilers for the Amazon show because we will inevitably compare things. No spoilers for anything beyond season two of the show because it doesn't exist. Or beyond the Dragon Reborn book. Not on purpose anyway. Not on purpose. Sometimes Mandy can't help
Character Development: Matt
00:02:23
Speaker
herself. One of the things I enjoy about this book is we finally get Matt's POV.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, Matt was like, exercised from the dagger. The dagger, he was, was uh, he got better. He wasn't sick because usually leave the first two books he's like, dying the whole time. So yeah, Matt is awesome. You thought I was crazy. I did because I was like, why is this her favorite character?
00:02:54
Speaker
So let's talk about Matt and the dagger because that's like the beginning of this book. The girls are taking Matt to Tar Valen where they're gonna go get in trouble for running away aka being kidnapped dumbly because they are idiots.
00:03:13
Speaker
Varen is with them which is important because uh shout out Varen. Yes there was enough Varen in this book. That is a fact. but So Matt's like dying. They're heading back to Tar Valon. There's an incident with some white cloaks. Oh. That I do want to highlight because I feel like the girls are so dumb. There's
00:03:41
Speaker
Like, Varen has this situation under control. She gives them very clear instructions to say nothing. Right. And what do they all do? Elaine's like, I'm the daughter error. Eggwing's like, I'm gonna blow you up. ah Yes. Yeah. They don't follow directions very well. And they're not sorry about it.
00:04:00
Speaker
there ah No, they are not. just To be fair, Eguin has some trauma. Yeah, I feel total trauma. I feel bad. Like, yeah, shit the girl's been through a lot. Sanchan. That's how we say it. Sanchan is how I say it. I don't know how to say it in the show. They're just, I mean, getting over that is huge,
Returning to the Tower
00:04:21
Speaker
right? And she still has to, there's no time for like recovery. your you know Your life's in danger 100% of the time in this book, so yeah. That is true. They're one like period of recovery.
00:04:32
Speaker
is like they're washing dishes before someone attacks them you're right so yeah so they do get back to the tower safely despite all of their efforts to get themselves killed yeah on the way they're always good at yeah there is a question amongst the ice to die on whether they should heal Matt or not yeah which is Interesting that the show did nothing with this, right? Like the show didn't have like like Moraine was basically able to heal Matt He's still kind of addicted to the dagger. I'm very confused because the daggers like on his yeah Staff in the show, right? not touching it But the question of whether they heal Matt is because Matt is tied to the horn and so they're like if we let him die and
00:05:23
Speaker
then another person will be called up to blow the horn. And for some inexplicable reason, I say and sometimes the I say that you're dumb. Like, they are like, Rand needs to blow the horn at the last battle. You know, like, that's what they're thinking. But you're like, Matt is Taverin. That's what I need to say. yeah tied to Rand. Matt is critical critical to the last battle. Spoilers, I can't say more. It's a lot of Matt goodness we haven't even gotten to. So you scratched the surface.
Matt's Evolution and Luck
00:05:59
Speaker
We have only scratched the surface. But they do decide to heal in and I think you texted me and said like that was a really cool scene. Yeah it was. They should have put that in the show because it was
00:06:12
Speaker
It was awesome. It was really visual. It was good. Yeah. Yeah. I actually think it's one of the, so two of the big complaints I've seen about the show, particularly around Matt. Well, there's a lot of complaints around Matt because he's been in a bathrobe for two seasons.
00:06:27
Speaker
Which are not all the show's fault because the actor left the show so there was some like rewrites and shenanigans. Yeah I think they were put in a corner there. But the two Matt scenes from the first three books that everybody talks about are Matt being healed and Matt beating the crap out of Gawain and Gallad. Oh yeah.
00:06:47
Speaker
Yes. Where is that scene? Theoretically, it could still happen. Theoretically, he could go with the girls to the White Tower next season. Yeah, I guess so. That's not where he's supposed to be in before, but I don't know.
00:07:02
Speaker
I have literally no idea what next season of the show holds. But that whole sequence is really cool, and it's the both the Matt being able to beat them up and Matt being healed and having an old tongue. These are the start of Matt, right? like Matt's actually a really good fighter. Yeah. I was surprised about that, because I was like, oh, he's not really healed yet. He's eating all his food, because apparently it takes a lot out of you, and you just get to you know eat everything. And he's just like walking around.
00:07:31
Speaker
you know, the White Tower and decides to to like, bet them, right? And I was like, they're gonna kick his ass, but they did not kick his ass. No. And of course, the other Matt thing in this book that is starting to come to play here, but I don't think is directly at play in that fight, is Matt's luck. Yeah, there was a lot of that in this book.
00:07:55
Speaker
And I thought, I know this is skipping ahead a little bit and I don't know if you want to yet, but. You can do whatever order you want. This is our conversation. But when they're, when he's playing the dice in the rigged dice cup. Yes. And he, he like realizes something about it's like, that it's like better that it's random. It works when it's more random. Cause he could almost feel or see like the wheel strands pulling apart and together.
00:08:22
Speaker
And I thought that was really cool. And so I was like, oh, this luck is a thing. Like, this is bigger than just him being lucky. Well, I knew that, but, you know, I don't know what the it's going to be. But I mean, Matt's luck is like twofold and it's it's like his superpower. And it like, what can I say? So there is a scene. Let me see. I took a picture of this because I was like, oh, it's the first time.
00:08:50
Speaker
It's the end of chapter 52. And the the last paragraph is, with a laugh that made even the soul and folk in the street look at him, he headed back for the white crescent, uncaring of the mud or the damp heat. He could feel the dice tumbling inside his head. So that's gonna come back. Like Matt can like, when something big is gonna happen, like it's like he gets like fight music, flip but it's the dice tumbling, right? Like he's like, something's good.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah like something is uh something's about to go on. Yeah. He was just like swashbuckling crazy in this in this book like he was just everywhere okay and he's just like the reluctant hero I guess and like uh I guess I gotta go save the girls now idiots.
00:09:39
Speaker
i' get up I think it's not just, it's not, I mean, reluctant hero, sure, but he's also like 18. So I think there's that little bit of like, you know, teenagers when they want to be like super cynical and they want to like not care, yeah but they do really care. yeah I feel like that's Matt. He's like, I don't care about these poor people, hands this woman a oh crap ton of cash, right? like Yeah, it seems like he has a big heart, which we hadn't seen to this point. Yeah. And I love the whole Matt Tom shenanigans. The two of them? Yes, because he's just like, shut up, boy. if You're an idiot. And that fireworks scene.
00:10:19
Speaker
where he just wear matt and wait which one where he invents bombs or the one where he's like cutting one open yeah or he cuts one open and tom's like what are you doing and then he just like throws something on the fire and he's like what are you doing yeah i just it was hilarious it's funny and he just doesn't think which a teenager does right like acts and think and that's very much but the crazy thing is that that's matt's superpower Right? Because of luck and the randomness. It's like, when he doesn't think, he passes three ends, he walks in the last one. Oh, yeah. That's when he finds the guy he's looking for. Right? Like, when he... And I mean, this is very early, Matt, right? There's a...
00:11:02
Speaker
i say this is early matt like we didn't just have two books of even earlier matt this is the start this is matt awake this is matt not like dagger crazed and you know what's crazy is originally these first three books were supposed to be one book oh my god so we were supposed to get to there in the first book right and then ran for claiming himself the dragon reborn and all that uh because it's like everyone else kind of revealed their superpower early on, if you will. Like, we know Nynave can heal, right? We know Rand is the track and report. Right. Perrin's got the wolf thing. Which is super cool. Eggwing is Hermione, that's her superpower. Yeah. And it's like, and Matt, you're just like, and he's sick? Yeah. Question mark? Like, so it makes more sense when you think that this first trilogy was supposed to be like,
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah. One. That would have been a big book. Yes. I didn't even carry that around. The other two characters who are introduced in this that you're like, oh it makes more sense that this was all supposed to be one book because these are critical main characters are Avienda and Fael.
00:12:12
Speaker
i yo Yeah, so is there anything more we want to say about Matt other than we love him and he is awesome and he's my favorite. He rocks. Yeah, I wasn't sure. I was skeptical, but yeah. And it just gets better. I just got more excited every time his chapters came up. I was like, yes, it's a Matt chapter.
00:12:32
Speaker
He's something, shenanigans are gonna happen. He's gonna do something super dumb. Something fun is gonna happen. There's so many things I can't to talk about, but there's so many things about Matt that I love. like Many of the scenes that stick in my head are Matt scenes. yeah like Are like, what is the wheel of time? a And then, there's something I can't even say. But for those of you who are Matt fans, I'm just gonna say,
00:12:59
Speaker
You know how I feel about Matt being written by Brandon Sanderson, and it was blasphemy. Uh, but uh... Yeah, I love his confidence. I love how he can just, you know, sneak into a whole castle, and it's like fine. It's just like another day there. I really love, and this is never gonna go away, Matt's commitment to the girls, actually. Like, he's like always there for them, and they all think he's like,
00:13:25
Speaker
dumb as a bag of rocks. I guess we could talk about that when he like opens that door when they're like in you know captured and they're like what are you doing? They're like mad at him. Like what are you doing here? He's like I'm rescuing you.
New Elements: Aiel and Tests
00:13:42
Speaker
Like what? I guess it would be like if you were captured and like your younger brother like opened the door and you'd be like why are you this is so dangerous? Why are you here? That was so funny.
00:13:56
Speaker
ah They're like, isn't there like an eye-to-die right out there? Like he's like, I took care of that. She's not moving. It's not actually his fault. She's not moving. So the girls, they start out in the white tower. The Amaryllians both like mad at them and knows that they're like the only people she can trust, which I feel like is really frustrating for her because they're teenagers and they're dumb.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. So she has Elaine and Egueen tested to become accepted. Right. We don't get to see Elaine's acceptance test. We do get to see Egueen's. Yeah. ah Which is, you know, all about Rand. Of course. And he's the Dragon Reborn, I mean. That was such a long time ago in this book. I know. I was like, wow. Yeah.
00:14:42
Speaker
But it's, you know, whereas nine names was tied to land and kind of like different futures and different paths, there's the future where she didn't leave the two rivers and there's no land. But with Gwayne, like if she didn't leave the two rivers, she's with Rand, right? Like, and she kind of sees it like the way back comes but once. Yeah, she can't save him. There's like where she sees him being like tried and he's going to be stilled. They don't call it stilled for men, but gentled. Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
I and it's all bad uh so which I feel like makes it easier for her to leave than for Nynave to leave because Nynave's like names was heartbreaking yeah and maybe because we also got that in the show but it was rough yeah it was rough so I they both become accepted Amrelian wants them to hunt black aja for her and this is so there's There's so many levels of dumbness here. I can't... Well, like, yeah, pardon my like lack of fantasy reading, but all I can compare it to is Dumbledore being like, go hunt Horcruxes. Yeah. Like, experience.
00:15:50
Speaker
dumb not knowing what's going on yes go hunt black asha like what so i will say it is a theme a major theme of wheel of time that when you don't communicate with each other problems happen and you know this i don't consider this a spoiler because this is thematic and it In the end, for the last battle, they all have to communicate with each other, right?
Miscommunication and Collaboration
00:16:14
Speaker
Like, to defeat the Dark One, you all have to be on the same page. You can't all be, like, outdoing your own thing, right? So, major theme. i But here we have a situation where, like, it's been, like, two days, and 9A's, like, the Amrelian hasn't called us yet. yeah Like, we just have to make a decision and do something. And I'm like, whoa. Whoa. Yeah. Like, what is happening here?
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah. I was like, they're just going to go off, but. Oh, it's an obvious trap. Yeah. I ended. It's a dumb trap because Rand didn't go to tier for them. He in fact had no idea they were there. Yeah. So, but the intent I believe is that Balal.
00:16:52
Speaker
had the black aja lure the girls down there to lure rand there because of course belal wanted calendore for a variety of reasons some of which are spoilers. needless to say if moraine hadn't killed belal belal could have used calendore to get at rand um okay there's like levels within levels of like Balal's plan wasn't all like completely stupid. Other than Rand had no freaking clue the girls were there. Right. He was batching bananas in this whole book. He doesn't know anything. No. He's off by himself. The girls go to Tyr on an obvious
Journey to Tyr and Group Dynamics
00:17:30
Speaker
trap. They ah take a ship. i They get off the ship. Is this the ship that got stuck in the mud or whatever? Yeah. Okay. They immediately, as the captain warned them, get willayed by brigands. Yes. And have to get saved by some mayo.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. So what do you think of the Isle? I think they're awesome. ah want I want Isle lady warriors all the time. Yes. The maidens of the spear. Maidens of the spear. Yeah. Yeah. So I know they're coming more, but I really enjoyed our first look into them.
00:18:06
Speaker
So they meet Avienda, Bane and Chad, and two other ideal women whose name I'm never gonna remember. One of them dies later in the book. Oh yeah. Yeah. Nynave heals that one. And then she goes and dies. Yeah. Nynave gets super frustrated that that one dies after she heals it, which is fair. Yeah. Right? Like I just called her an it. It's a girl. She one especially because the Aiel have like they're like weird about it they're just like oh she's death comes to us all yeah death comes to us all and Nae was like i just totally healed her and it was awesome right and i love how Nae was like making herself mad and the Aiel are like is she is she okay she's like she's gonna psych herself out to do this healing it's okay it's okay guys it's okay but um i also think it's crazy that in this book Elaine is the reasonable one
00:18:55
Speaker
Oh yeah. I know. I like Elaine. Nynave and Eguin spend so much of this book mad at each other. They are mad, yeah. And I want to defend Nynave for a moment. Because Eguin is off her rocker, right? She's mad because she has been promoted to the same rank as Nynave.
00:19:13
Speaker
And she's like, Nynave still treats me as a child. And I'm like, because you are 16. Yeah. Eggway, there is no way. When the armorylion gave this job to you, she clearly made Nynave the boss. Like, she didn't state it. But Elaine said he was supposed to be there, right? Right. Yeah. So you have a 27-year-old and like a 16-year-old. Those aren't their actual ages. But somewhere around there, right? Yeah. Who is the boss? Nynave is the boss. Always.
00:19:41
Speaker
And Wayne's entire attitude is like when your sibling tells you to brush your teeth because it's time for bed and you're like, well, now I'm not going to do it because you told me to. Right. And Elaine is sitting there like, yeah, she's like, oh, my God, can you stop it? We're like trying to do important things.
00:20:00
Speaker
Now, I will say this is important character growth for later things. Like, Naive does need to eventually learn to accept Egwene as an equal, but for now, I'm like, you were not an equal, you just got raised to accept it. Like, also, Naive is more powerful than you, which actually does matter.
00:20:17
Speaker
and she's older than you so yeah well i think it's a lot like as a teenager like you just want to be seen like why is she still it was a whole lot of like she still sees me as a kid type i'm not a baby anymore so it's all her trying to prove herself i think this is very real i think this very real teenage girl I think the three hold all three of them and how they dealt with each other was a pretty accurate depiction of how girls operate sometimes. yes i mean there's there's a lot I think there can be a lot of criticism sometimes for Robert Jordan and how he handled things. Obviously he's a boob man, there's a lot of talk of abreast.
00:20:53
Speaker
But like, the way he wrote Elaine, Gwen, and Nynave is I'm like, this is how Nynave and Gwen would interact with each other. yeah Like they've known each other their whole lives. And Elaine's just sitting over there like,
00:21:05
Speaker
I like you both. Can you like you chill? I thought it was funny too that like you Elaine is like educated, right? She's like a daughter heir so she has knows things about the world and they're just like two rivers. Not saying they're dumb or anything but they're just not. There's no formal education in two rivers. and They don't know anything about you know most of the stuff that comes to them is like stories or rumors. They didn't know that the two rivers is part of Andor. ah Yeah.
00:21:31
Speaker
So like when they meet the Aiel, Elaine's like saying all what she thinks is what she knows about the Aiel and um the girls are like, what? but I was like in Eguin's mind, there's a little bit like, ah like she's a little bit miffed that like Elaine feels like she has to explain this and I'm like, because you don't know this. Right. You're dumb. Like and you guys have different cultures. Eguin and the Aiel and like they Yeah, well, we'll talk about that more too when we talk about Perrin and Fael, because they have very different cultures. The girls do eventually get to Tyr. They encounter Iael twice. So they encounter them with the brigands. Well, they encounter them early when they heal the yeah the one. I think it was started with the deeds like Denon or something. I don't remember. Something like that. And then later, when they're kidnapped by the brigands, they get saved by a larger group of ale that includes Rorak, who is at the end. yeah He's the clan chief. The Iael are super deferential to Aes Sedai.
00:22:25
Speaker
So that's important. And they think of these women as wise women slash I said I wise women is what you'll call them. the So dumbly, they only travel together for a very short time.
00:22:41
Speaker
I know, I was like, they're all going to Tierk. Maybe we should hang out together. I don't think, do the IAL actually tell them they're going to Tierk though? I don't think so. They just say they're going to some prophecy. They're looking for he who comes with the dawn. He comes with the dawn. The Kakaran. Um, yeah. So yeah, but it's just like, it would have been safer if you all hung out together. Much safer. Yes.
Capture and Rescue Plans
00:23:03
Speaker
Yes. Uh, but they do get to Tierk and then Nainave because she is intelligent is like, we should not stay in an inn. And Eguin refuses to ask where they're gonna stay because she's being stubborn. And my name's like, I'll know it when I see it. They stay what they end up staying with a local ah healer woman. yeah But then when they hire a thief catcher, Julian Sander is not a bad guy. No. But the Black Aja. It just seemed like a bad idea.
00:23:35
Speaker
to hire an unvetted person to to look for 13 black aja. The problem is that they're black aja and the girls are not educated on all the things that Aes Sedai can do. yeah ah Not only all the things Aes Sedai can do, but all the things Aes Sedai are forbidden from doing.
00:23:59
Speaker
And the things that they have lost knowledge of, that the Forsaken can do, that I said I cannot. So Julian turns them over to the Blind Gaja, seemingly against his will. i And he's very apologetic for it later when he runs into Matt. But yeah, I agree. It was a dumb plan. The stain, not an inn was smart. Yes.
00:24:24
Speaker
But yeah, I like the wisdom lady. Yeah. Uh, I'll who and who, I'll who on something like that. But I liked her. Um, and yeah, I just was like, why would you tell some random dude that you just heard from this lady that to go do this? Like, this is a terrible idea. Any of them could have been dark friends. Yeah. And like, we know that, you know, they're always put in these positions because of the wheel and whatever that, you know, people are after them.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yes. Once again, the plot of Wheel of Time only makes sense if Eguin is a tavern. and i Yeah.
Speculating Egwene's Role
00:25:01
Speaker
But yes. it In the book, in the show, isn't she Taverin? In the show, I think it's implied all five are Naive inclusive. I don't think Naive has to be Taverin for the book to work. I think Eguin has to be. And we'll talk about that more later. But I ultimately think Naive's plots are tied to either Eguin or Rand. And so she can be pulled in the wake.
00:25:24
Speaker
of somebody else's pattern. Okay. But, Aquane does so much stuff on her own without any of the boys there. Yeah. Like, one of the girls has to be a Taverin, right? Because the pattern is putting them in places. Like, why are they in tier? Yeah. They all end up in tier in the end. Yeah. The pattern pulled them there and, you know, Balal, but whatever.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yes. He's a dum-dum forsaken. He's one of the early ones who just get out of the way. Okay. Well, I was like, that was anticlimactic. Well, it was bailfire. He wasn't expecting that. And we can't talk too much about bailfire. We'll get a lot more of that in the... of coming books about what it is. So yeah, the girls get captured, they're in a prison, um, Aguin wants to use the dream world to set them free, and then that's when their plot line kind of meets up back with Matt. Right. Can we say, can you say the dream world? Tuck. Telling, Telling Henryd is how I say it.
00:26:21
Speaker
That's a law and a roid. Yeah. This is super weird, the dream world. You sent me a meme of Perrin and Nick Lee. So that will happen multiple times in this book. Like in this whole series where it'll be like Gwayne will be like, what are you doing here, Perrin? This is dangerous. And Perrin will be like, what are you doing here? This is dangerous. And like, and or they don't believe the other one, but they both think that they are more capable in the dream world than the other one. i This is my dream or your dream?
00:26:56
Speaker
oh Good times. Good times. Meanwhile, Rand and the Forsaken are just pulling everyone into their dreams. Yeah. Poor guy.
Lanfear and Trust Issues
00:27:05
Speaker
Also, we didn't talk about land beer. She keeps showing up, people keep listening to her. She wasn't in this book that much. No, but she shows up and like, a Gwayne talks to her? Yeah. Matt talks to her? Naked Matt talks to her. Just like, hey, that wasn't weird at all. No.
00:27:23
Speaker
no i'm just like i'm just like you guys are dumb yeah stop trusting the beautiful woman yeah when a beautiful woman appears just in the middle of the white tower yeah who's clearly not an isai and not a servant hmm maybe we should be skeptical maybe we should be skeptical and all of them the girls and matt and paren are being chased by graymond oh yeah he yeah which are like zombies yeah that's how i Zombies or yeah, they're like zombies if they still had all their faculties remind me of like the men in black guy. Yeah ah The the guys you forget and doctor who oh, yeah Basically, you can't see them. Perrin actually was able to sense them though. He had to like work hard at
Rand's Destiny and Perrin's Challenges
00:28:10
Speaker
it But we haven't talked much about Perrin yet because Perrin that's our next group of people Yes, but yeah, so Perrin at the beginning of this book moraine land Perrin men are always random
00:28:23
Speaker
Yes. Then Rand runs away. Because he doesn't want to get his friends in trouble or whatever. As if they're not gonna follow him. Rand is an idiot. I'm sorry. Yes. He's also 18. He's also Looney Tunes in this one.
00:28:37
Speaker
So I don't think Rand is insane in this one. I think he's being driven by the pattern and I think that's different because we're gonna get more Rand in later books and you're gonna be like wait he's not insane. Like I mean obviously he has moments and there are things where his he's clearly slipping but like in this he's like so like driven right? Like it's I feel like it's the pattern forcing him to tear.
00:29:00
Speaker
It had to happen. He had to arrive there at the same time as the ideal, because the ideal are the people of the dragon, right? And so it's like, nope, you are going to tear. okay and uh he had to proclaim himself there so i i feel like it's just like the pattern like overwriting his like will kind of okay it just seemed like in the book that like he couldn't tell when he was dreaming and when he was awake and all that stuff i'm not sure how much he's actually been sleeping okay yeah well and then there was that
00:29:31
Speaker
that I don't know if he killed a bunch of innocent people or they were bad. and I think they were dark friends. They were? Okay. Because I was like, that could have been bad. but Like, it wasn't clear that they weren't innocent or they were. Okay. We'll get a lot more Rand in the next book. And then we can dis discuss. Well, I kind of liked not being Rand. It's not that I don't like him. It's just that like,
00:29:54
Speaker
It's a lot sometimes. He's angsty. So my least favorite Wheel of Time book is The Path of the Dagger. And it's because there's no map point of views, and it's so much Rand. And I'm just like, I need Matt. I need him. It's breaking up. Yes. But yeah, Rand goes to Tyr. He's the person that Matt actually sees climbing the stone walls.
00:30:19
Speaker
And a couple of times people are in tears and think they see Rand. And they totally did. yeah It was in fact. Was that Rand? Yeah, it's Rand. I mean, there are a bunch of IEL running around right now, so you know. Yeah. Could be anyone. I do love whenever anyone meets an IEL, they're like, oh, it looks like Rand. It looks like, yeah, I guess Rand is one of them. They're all like, oh, damn, Rand is an IEL.
00:30:48
Speaker
Rand runs away, Perrin and, well, Moraine sends all the Shinarians away. Oh yeah, those guys. Yeah. Which is later referenced, because Massimo's out there being crazy, ah proclaiming the word of Rand Althor. Yeah. they're going They're following Rand. Perrin, Moraine, Lann, loyal. Men's been sent off by herself. yeah She's gone. All the Shinarians are gone.
00:31:14
Speaker
They follow in Rand's wake. They see all sorts of crazy things. Yeah, like all those people who got married. Yeah. And that's all Rand. Like, what? What? Like, that's the pattern. The pattern. And so it's like, imagine he's like a speedboat going through a still pond. And it's everyone being caught in the wake. Oh. Right? So he like pulls everyone's threads with them. And it reacts in crazy ways. And it's not always all good, which Perrin says at one point, he's like, I thought the dragon reborn is good. I thought the pattern is good.
00:31:43
Speaker
And the Marines like, well the pattern's neither good or bad. good or bad It just is, right? like And so Perrin throwing a pebble in the pond, like, is that gonna result in the fish getting eaten or a fish getting free, right? Like, it could go either way. I see. But he does end up in a town, eventually, where there is an eil and a cage. Ah yeah. And a bunch of white cloaks running around. Perrin. Perrin. Yeah. So in the show,
00:32:13
Speaker
They made the Ayo and the Cage be Avienda. Which I think is interesting. I don't know if we talked about this last time. I think there are people out there who now ship Perrin Avienda. No. No. That's a negative go. other like you know I So it's Gall. It's our guy in a cage. Perrin kind of like In a haze, it's like, I'm gonna free him. Yeah, I was like, what is he doing? Yeah, Maureen's like, stay in your rooms, everyone. Yeah. And Perron's like, I'm gonna free him. To be fair, Perron was gonna go talk to land first about it. Yeah. And then land wasn't there, Maureen was there. They got to fight, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. There's also a lot of hunters of the horn in this this town. Ah, yeah. They're the ones who captured Gaul. They'd like to say they were like 12 of the Aiel. There were two.
00:33:10
Speaker
Amongst them is Fayil Bashir. Oh God, yeah. What are your feelings on Fayil? So at first I was like, I didn't think it was gonna be like a major thing. I was just like, oh, this is just the an annoying girl he meant. But she's annoying. She doesn't leave. And she doesn't leave. And even though Moraine gives her a chance to leave. Multiple times. Multiple times. And I wanted her to leave.
00:33:41
Speaker
She did not leave. And I guess Perrin has mixed feelings about her. Why, I don't know. Because I just want her to go away. I was like, oh, I guess she's gonna stick around. And Loyal is just like, what is wrong with this lady?
00:33:58
Speaker
that I think Loyal doesn't like fail. Well, Moraine doesn't. Oh, Moraine's just like... I think Moraine is just like, get all these people away from me. Moraine's like, I already have to deal with enough children? Why are we adding more children to the group?
00:34:13
Speaker
That's what I feel like. She's just like... Because Loyol's a kid too, right? Loyol's like a teenage... Oh, gear. Oh, gear, yeah. And your parent. And she's like, parent's always like, you're not explaining enough to me. And she's like, oh my God. You were 12 years old. Right. Like, do what you called. And then you add into that a girl that she doesn't know. Overly ambitious.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yes. Who wants to follow them for glory? Right. Well, and she thinks she's like hunting the horn. Meanwhile, they already have the horn. That's really funny later when they they say that and she's like, what? I know. Yeah, she's not my fave. I know I kept texting you. I was like, what? Who is this?
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah. i That is, I would say, a standard wheel of time opinion. there are There's a lot of file dislike out there. um I think file serves a purpose. Great. She's not going anywhere. I guess that's what I'm saying. Yeah. weird In the end, she ah springs that sleep trap.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah. And then Perrin goes crazy to save her. Yeah, I was like, what? Because he loves her. Yeah. I was like, oh no. Of all the people.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah, I will be really interested to see what they do a file in the show because they have a parent who's been previously married because I feel like parents conflicted feelings make a lot of sense when it's like a boy who's actually not used to girls is sexually attracted to somebody thinks she's interesting but is like no.
00:35:51
Speaker
right Like, I have duty and you're annoying, but I like you. but I like that you're annoying, but no, that's dumb. Which makes a lot more sense when you have like zero experience with girls. He's like he's like obsessed with her, but he's like in denial that he's obsessed with her, because he's always like, is she pretty? yeahs like I gotta to go sort out my thoughts about her.
00:36:13
Speaker
Whereas Fael is definitely like, I like this guy. Yeah. He's hot and... Teases him. Yeah. Yeah. Which Fael is definitely more forward than any girl he's ever met. I think she's very forward about everything. Yeah. It's because of the kind of people she's from, which I'm not gonna remember. Okay. I'm trying to look at the map. She's Seldian. Yeah. So I think they say that at some point. Yeah, I think they did, but... Yep. So... I...
00:36:40
Speaker
I hated all the parent chapters. Hated? Like every time I stopped reading, it's because I hit a parent chapter. I was like, ugh. Yeah. I don't like, the wolf thing is weird. I like Hopper in his chapters when he's like, Hopper, what's up? And he's like, help me. I need to find whoever, you know?
00:37:02
Speaker
But I get it, yeah. I mean, I like Perrin. I just, yeah, it's a little slower moving. It's like he's a slow thinker. I think that's one of those. He's really like a slow methodical. me Matt is just like, but but boom, boom, boom. A million things happening. You know, Rand is doing his, you know, and then his girls have all this. So Rand is like angsty. He like obsesses over things.
00:37:21
Speaker
Perrin thinks through everything too much. Yeah, methodical thinking. like, thinking he can't, like, with the Wolf Brother thing. It's very similar in his feelings about Fael. He wants it, but he doesn't. Right. Right? So he keeps, it's, and he's not angsty about it. He's not like, woe is me, like, my life. He's just like, he keeps like, thinking about it. Right? Yeah. And working it over. And it just takes him a really long time to get to like, conclusions. Right? Yeah. Because he doesn't want to hurt people.
00:37:51
Speaker
Matt is just... Action. Action, yeah. yeah His brain... and what he does do not sync up. like And that's the dichotomy of Matt's character, because you know the line in Batman Begins where they're like, it's not what you say, but what you do that defines you? Matt is a doer, and what he thinks and says are completely the opposite of what he does. yeah like He's like, I'm not gonna save people, immediately saves everyone. yeah like We don't have time for these people, immediately makes time for them, right? like But he's in like denial. Rand is just like angsty all the time. To be fair,
00:38:28
Speaker
He's like Jesus. I mean, not like Jesus was an angsty, but like he has the weight of like, I thought Jesus went through an angsty period. I mean, like a night. I think you're allowed a night of
Rand's Acceptance and Forsaken's Schemes
00:38:40
Speaker
angst. Rand is going to have like years of angst. So it's like, what if Jesus was always in the Garden of Gethsemane, right? That's Rand. He's just like, please let it be anyone else. Yeah. like But at the end of this book is where Rand truly accepts that he is a dragon reward.
00:38:58
Speaker
dragging off oh So, Perrin and all of them end up in Iliun, which has been overtaken by Forsaken. Yeah. I'll probably like walk in there like, ooh, the vibes are off. but Then they go to Tyr, the vibes are still off. Yeah, everyone's having bad dreams. There's another Forsaken. Both of these countries, which are you know historically enemies of each other, are now overtaken by Forsaken.
00:39:24
Speaker
It's Samael in Iliad and Balal in Tyr. They don't have time to take out Samael, nor do they want to, right? They're all afraid. And there's hellhounds after them. i That hellhound scene was really cool.
00:39:39
Speaker
Like, Moraine and Lynn and Perrin. I thought it was a good scene. Yeah. The Hellhounds. Yeah. The Hellhounds leave their stones. It was scary. Footprints and the stone. And you'll note there was a point earlier in the book where Perrin saw a footprint and stone. And it was like completely... He was like, oh, that's weird. Yeah. So now they're in Tyr. Everyone's in Tyr. Like, it kind of works out. So, you know, I was thinking about this. I was like, did Matt get to Tyr too soon? Oh, we didn't even talk about him going to Cameline.
00:40:08
Speaker
which has also been taken over by a forsaken. There are forsaken everywhere. Right. They're everywhere. Except Lanfir and Ishmael who are playing another game. Like I love, so the thing I love about the forsaken, and I don't know how the show is gonna do this, is that they they all play different games and some of them are dumber games, right? So Samail and Ravan and Balal are all like, I'm gonna take over a country.
00:40:31
Speaker
That's the way to fight the dragon reborn. yeah Meanwhile, Landfear's like, um I'm gonna get in the head of all of his friends. Yeah, I'm gonna f with them. Yeah. but Meanwhile, Ishmael's like, I haven't been messing with them since before they were born. Like, they are my pawns. Of course, he dies at the end of this book. But, which, spoilers, if you hadn't seen the show, right? Like, the book does not make it clear till the very end of this book that Belazement is Ishmael. Right? Yeah. i The show is pretty upfront about that.
00:41:01
Speaker
I feel like. Yeah. But he is Ishmael. I can't say things. and So, but yeah, Ishmael, like there's like levels of Forsaken and Ishmael and Landfear are at the top level. Okay. And the show, you know, is playing with that in a different way because at first it was just the two of them and they didn't want to release the others. Yeah. And then there's these other guys that you're like, what the hell are you even doing? Yeah. You really think that taking over Iliad is gonna like put you in a place to defeat the dragon reborn like ah at least belal had a real plan because he had calendore right yeah and there's a real thing about calendore that set him up like rand was gonna come to him right even without the girls like rand was coming there right he set up a real trap for rand what the hell is samale doing over there in elian yeah ain't nobody knows
00:41:57
Speaker
Meanwhile, I don't know if I actually spoiled you that that one guy in Kamalyn is a forsaken, but... The Morgeys is the guy, her advisor or whatever? I figured it was bad. I figured it was something like that. Yeah, he told me for a second. Yeah. Bad things happening over there. Yeah!
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, cuz like now they're fighting with the White Tower and Elaine and they were gonna go kill Eglaine and Elaine and Matt hears it and is like Oh, they're gonna go kill it's like I gotta to go to tear Yeah, but more gays seems to be like under his thrall yeah, and that's not great no I No it is not. So yeah, there's multiple forsaken. The forsaken are being released. They don't get all released at the same time. The show did a similar thing, but for different reasons. um There's 14? There's 13. Because it's a bad number. yeah In the show there's eight. And we still don't know which of the male forsaken they have chosen outside of Ishmael in the show. They've only named the girls, so we know that they- Ishmael is the really good dressed one? Yeah. yeah yeah That Rand killed at the end of season two.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah. He's not, he's not good. I figure like no one's ever really gotten this book. perfect Well, we will talk about that more after book four. Because yes and no. So i there... Is that Tom Maryland is dead? No. There, we will talk more. Okay. After book four. Because there are things that do guarantee people not coming back and there are things that don't. uh so uh yeah because when you die the dark one has access to you right and at the end of the day ishmael is the dark one's most trusted lieutenant uh and at the end of the day landfear only cares about one thing landfear and rand yeah she cares about rand i love the threatening note she sends to marine at the end of this book yeah like bt dubs he's mine marine's like i just don't care no that's not what she thinks but
00:44:07
Speaker
I think the rain in this book was just like done with everyone. She's just like. Well, Marines in such a hard spot and we're going to see more of that in book four where like you have this teenager who is the savior of the world.
Moraine's Challenges and Nynaeve's Power
00:44:23
Speaker
He doesn't trust you because he's worried that people want to use him, that the White Tower wants him to like dance on puppet strings and he doesn't want to be used. Moraine is of the White Tower.
00:44:35
Speaker
how do you like when really all moraine wants in fact she has worked to make sure he does not get like pulled like people in the white tower don't even know about him like everyone who knows he's a dragon reborn she's like you are now sworn to secrecy forever right like right she's like file you are now part of us like yeah or i will kill you i will literally kill you like moraine will literally kill people except she can't because she likes to die and there's a three oaths like she's like land will kill you yeah for ran she would kill for him like and he can't trust her because he doesn't like he doesn't know right like i and because they don't communicate yeah and because ran moraine doesn't want to explain herself right like there are times where it's like i get why moraine doesn't want to explain herself but then i'm like just you know yeah i've like i've worked with kids
00:45:28
Speaker
You can reach them logically sometimes, right? You can be like, let me explain that the re- like, especially teenagers, right? You can be like, I know you want to do whatever you want to do, whatever. But like, here's the reason why I'm putting down this edict. And sometimes they're going to throw that back in your face, but sometimes they'll be like, oh, that kind of makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think I like, I'm always waiting for that moment where Rand's like, oh, Maureen's trying to help me. You know, I don't know if we'll get it or like,
00:45:58
Speaker
or There are 14 books. Yeah, I figure their relationship will evolve Over time to like because they're always so hard I even like you see this a lot with Perrin and Moraine in this book is like he's off They're fighting like yelling at each other constantly. Yeah, and it's like we're all doing this thing like maybe we're together a bit I don't know but yeah, and they're all you know, they all don't have high opinions as I said I at all right, so even even Even, you know, Gwen and Nynave, who are becoming Aes Sedai, don't like the Aes Sedai. Well, Nynave blames Maureen for everything. Yeah. She's shooting the messenger. Yeah. Right. um Which is not fair.
00:46:38
Speaker
It's an emotional response, but like their whole lives have been turned upside down. So I can sympathize with the fact that she feels like she needs someone to blame. There's a bunch of forsaken running around. You should blame one of them, but you know. Right. Or the people are actively trying to kill you all the time. Which, you know, like almost everything that has gone wrong for them has been Ishmael, right? He's the one who at the dark friend social was telling everybody what the three boys looked like, sending them after him. Like you'll notice that Balal didn't know what Perrin or Matt looked like. Yeah. Right. Like they're forsaken aren't sharing information with each other because they're not friends. Yeah. They're like enemies. Yeah. So Ishmael different has convinced everyone he is the dark one. Yeah. Right. All these dark friends think he is the dark one. Right. And he's sending them out to do things like Patton Fane was out on Ishmael's command. Like Ishmael has been doing this
00:47:36
Speaker
I'm not seeing what everything's in the beginning. Be mad at him. But he's super scary. So how do you be mad? That's like being mad at like the ocean, right? like Yeah. so Well, and then i like I think it's interesting how she can only access her powers when she's angry. And she's always angry. like Or she's always getting angry, you know? Yeah. So i I'm sure that'll come into play more. But like, yeah, she her and Maureen are just at odds. Yeah. It's good times.
00:48:06
Speaker
so everything in this book everyone ends up at tear at the same time yeah which i love i love books that like you know you have these different groups and they all end up although in the wheel of time i'm noticing the reunions aren't always the way that i want them to be now but but Like, I mean, you get to the end of this book and Rand Perrin and Matt are there and you're like, they have to talk to each other. Yeah. But that's because you have the climax. You have like two chapters that it ends. Yeah. Right. Like, um, the beginning of the next book will be slow as the beginning of every real time book is. So we will get those kinds of like.
00:48:40
Speaker
reaction Like cuz they're back together. So how are they gonna split up now? Who's gonna go what direction, right? The ideal are they're looking for Rand. What does that mean for Rand? What does that mean for the ideal? What does that mean for Matt and Perrin? Where are they going next? Are the girls going back to the White Tower? Like these are yeah these are the questions the questions that the next book will spend quite a bit of time answering. It's huge.
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think I told you this, that I have the audio, I have the ebook that is books one through four. Book four is 40% of the audiobook. If you look up the duration of how long in the audiobook is for
Anticipation for Book Four
00:49:22
Speaker
book four,
00:49:23
Speaker
it's long is it uh well and the audiobooks are always like 28 hours or 30 hours or something so it's long it's longer i'd like to know more than i can remember i think it's close to 15 it's a long book because my reading speed i read really fast yeah and it told me it was gonna take me like 23 hours to read book four and i was like oh let's do this like already no but we're Wow. it's It's good. We can wait until the new Rosalind Pike audiobook comes out. Yeah, it helps. I mean, I didn't listen to the audiobook at the end because I was just like, I need to to know what happens. This is all, this is going down. I need to know what is going on. So I read like the last
00:50:08
Speaker
a bunch of chapters. But yeah, I kind of mix. But i if I'm ever going to get through these things, I have to listen to them on the way to work or on my walks or whatever. yeah When you're stuck. Yeah. Gate traffic. Gate traffic. Yeah. All the things. So anything else about the Dragon Reborn you want to highlight? I really like the girls and I really like Matt. Team Team Matt.
00:50:33
Speaker
I'm curious to see where it goes next how everything split up. I know something I know they're gonna deal with the IEL and book before because it says it in the synopsis and the cover and the cover so I'm curious to because I'm looking forward to learning about the IEL more so yeah in the well the cover you bought is the mat cover which is Yeah, and a cover that has Matt on it. That's great Yeah, but the standard cover is them in like a wagon and the waist and the art's not very good. Don't recommend it Okay But yeah, so I'm excited for the I'm excited for book four and I want to keep going So that's always good. I'm not like sick of these people yet or cheering against them actively which happens sometimes for me
00:51:21
Speaker
i mean active cheering against the forsaken is allowed yeah well I mean like cheer against the supposed heroes when I get to a series and I'm like oh I hope you die you're very annoying then you know yeah like the fourth wing like I hope she gets eaten by her dragon yeah this podcast is for talking about things we love sorry things We are not talking about the fourth wing on this podcast ever. Apologies. Ever. For bringing it up. I just, yeah. I still can't believe were read too I of those books. I know. I can't believe we read them at the same time and didn't even know. It was so random. Literally. It was. It was very odd. I was like, I heard these books are good. I'm gonna read them while on vacation. Bad decision.
00:52:11
Speaker
um all right once again we're not talking about dubious books uh on here we're talking about books we love and the dragon reborn is a book i love once again it's weird to say that like the third book in a 14 book series is like my favorite book but this is like one of my favorite books in the entire series i can see that like it was really it was it like leveled up i would say the series yes you're learning about the universe more you're come more comfortable in the universe and the characters are being, there's a lot of character development that's like really interesting and good layers. I will say if there's one downside to this book is it kind of underplays the forsaken because marine just kills the lol. Yeah. Like immediately. But she goes in with the nuclear weapons of Isodai. Yeah. She's like, I have a nuke. This is a nuke worthy target. I'm nuking him. And we'll talk more about balefire in the next book. Like I already said, you know, landfear has been running around. Obviously no one's able to stop her.
00:53:06
Speaker
I do like how the TV show amped up, how afraid Maureen is of Lanveer. Because she is terrified of her. But we don't get Maureen's perspective in the book. yeah But it's there. And then it's also weird because Ishmael dies at the end of this book. So it's like at this point, Ran's killed. like Yeah, three Forsaken, right? Because he killed two in the first book. None died in book two. Though he did fight Ishmael. He has fought Ishmael at the end of every one of these three books, which is thematic and purposeful and maybe has something to do with the whole series. hi yeah me You know, just throwing that out there. But now Ishmael is dead.
00:53:52
Speaker
I'll be interesting to see how the show handles the next step there, which I will not speak of. Yeah, I'm going to watch the show because like or I already started watching the show again just because I need a show to watch and I'm bored. But um but I'm like picking more more things out now since I've read the books. I'm like, oh, that makes more sense. So yeah, yeah it'll be interesting when I get further in there.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think season two of the show is better than season one. Absolutely. And I don't like the ending of season one. Not necessarily with Rand and Maureen, but the girls at the Gap, at Tarwin's Gap. Oh, right. I don't like that. I'm like, if six eyes to die can hold the gap, then... No, none of them are eyes to die. If six women... Yeah. Who are barely trained can hold the gap. We just opied some eyes that I hear, which is a problem because the forsaken need to be on another level. Right. They have like, like, like, for example, Ishmael just appears at the end. How do you get there? Yeah. Right. and Where did they go? Oh, yeah. Right. Like when they their whole battle.
00:55:00
Speaker
is not in the stone, but is in the stone, right? I'm pretty sure it's in the dream world. I would have to go look it up, but I'm pretty sure that's what they did there. But it's like, none of the ice that I know how to like just like cross bodily into Telenroid, right? Like, the ice that I don't even know what it means to be a dreamer anymore, right? They're like, Gwen, you're a dreamer, maybe. Here's a ring. That's another thing. Here's this, what's it called, ingreal. Yeah.
00:55:25
Speaker
Like, we don't know what it does. You could end up there forever. We're not sure. It's a Taren grail. Taren grail. Yeah. As opposed to a Saren grail, which is more powerful. A Taren grail. Also, Taren grails do specific things, and Saren grails amp your own power.
00:55:43
Speaker
it's Yeah, there's a there's a difference there. But uh, yeah, yeah, Varen's like take this. Let's not forget Varen is her own person with her own path of life. So she and own motivation, her own motivation. She's only partly part like so cuz Sue Ann and Moraine are like lifelong friends, lovers who were They are! five Who were both there when i someone who could see the future said that the dragon had been reborn.
00:56:19
Speaker
right? They said that in the show, we'll get that more in the prequel book, New Spring, when we get to that. They, so they are like the only two people they can trust and they're on a path, right? And they've not told anybody else because they know anybody else will murder the Dragon Reborn. Meanwhile, Varen, yeah, she she like finagles her way in, right? Can you trust her? Can you not trust her? Like we don't, we don't, Maureen doesn't know. Yeah. Right? Like, and so it's like, what is her endgame? What is, is it just like, loyal? Like, knowledge? Right? Because what's loyal doing there? He's like, this is fun, and I'm writing a book. Yeah. Well, there's even questions that we didn't even talk about that, like, of Gwen and I Naive thinking everyone's a member of the Black Aja. Right. Literally everyone. They're like, Isherium, a member of the Black Aja? I mean, she, like, spanks us as a punishment. That's pretty bad.
00:57:09
Speaker
um like i yeah Everyone I hate is now Black Aja. When it's like, odds are the Black Aja is a very, very, very, very small subset of the White Tower. But you cannot assume that the 13 who left are the only Black Aja, right? So that's the trap they're stuck in. Most people they meet are probably not Black Aja. But if one of them is, yeah they're no longer held by the three oaths, they can lie to you.
00:57:35
Speaker
lie andron kill you uh they can kill you like lie andron's bad bad bad she is bad bad bad but also she's being uh told what to do by a forsaken yeah right who is better than her and uh has like abilities to torture her right like but they all think dumbly that doing things for the Dark Ones gonna like earn them power and or you know, like the Dark Ones gonna like make over the world and make them leaders or something, which is dumb. Never works out that way. Once again, once again. Ishmael and landfear are the only forsaken with reasonable motivations who know what the hell they're doing. Everybody else is off their rockers, yes which I feel like the show has actually done a good job. Well, we haven't seen any other forsaken in the show, so I'll be interested.
00:58:27
Speaker
You know, we got, like, a glimpse of Magadan. And I am assuming, for the sake of assumption, Asmodian will be in the show, who is a character. Well yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's like, what if you had a forsaken who was a bard? Let's do this. Anything else about the try anymore? No, I'm just, I'm looking forward to the next book, and uh, see what, where we go from here, because it gets pretty wild. It is. And I'm liking it.
00:58:53
Speaker
All right, well thank you Jessica for joining us and you will come back eventually when we finish reading the massive tome that is the shadow rising. So it'll happen eventually. Okay. All right, let's do it. The lovely cover. His outfit. Yeah, Bran's not even wearing that. with There's so many questions about the covers.
00:59:23
Speaker
ah Look at Perrin's outfit. Like, what what is he wearing? Like a leather jerkin? Matt's wearing ruffles? Like, I don't... He has, like, no sleeves, Perrin. We must show off his, like... Just tore him off. I mean, yeah, he'll look pretty alright.
00:59:44
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed this episode and that you will join us again next month on February 15th. I'll be welcoming back Seth Heasley to continue our discussion of the Sarah Connor Chronicles. Since our last Sarah Connor Chronicles episode went long, we're breaking season two up into chunks, so we will only be discussing in episodes one through five.
01:00:02
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Mandemonium. You can find me, Mandy, on Twitter at brown underscore aja. That's A-J-A-H. You can also find the podcast on Twitter at MandemoniumPod, and we also have a podcast Facebook page. Theme music for this podcast was created by Skips of Beat Music. Thank you so much for listening, and we hope you come back next time.