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Midnight Mass: "Book 4: Lamentations"
25 Plays5 months ago
Rachel Delaney (now Gleichmann) joins Mandy again to continue our discussion of the Netflix horror show, Midnight Mass, this time with the fourth episode. Spoilers abound as well as a deep discussion about the biological ramifications of partial vampirism.
Theme music created by Skips A Beat music.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mandemonium and Midnight Mass
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Mandemonium, a podcast where I, your host, Mandy, talk to guests about their favorite works of fiction, whether that be books, movies, TV shows, or more. Today, I will be continuing my discussion with Rachel on the Netflix horror show Midnight Mass, this time discussing Book Three Lamentations.
00:00:36
Speaker
All right, welcome
Rachel's Name Change Journey
00:00:37
Speaker
back. Today we have Rachel again to talk about Midnight Mass episode four, but Rachel Delaney, no longer. You've had a name change. I have.
00:00:49
Speaker
My name now is now ah Rachel Gleichmann as of September, so very exciting. Still still getting used to it, but still exciting. According to the guy who gave you an award at our work earlier this week, it's Glitchman. Oh yes, yes. i So funny because with the award, yeah, so we had an award ceremony at work and um to be ah to be honest, I i knew I had won. I was super excited about being there and then halfway through the ceremony, I realized that my name was going to get mispronounced because my husband's name always gets mispronounced the whole five years that we've been dating. I've heard several different pronunciations of it, so I was like,
00:01:30
Speaker
So it was a little deflating. See, I went from an unpronounceable name to a pronounceable name. You went from a pronounceable name to a, i would I would say a harder name, not unpronounceable, like mine was. Well, like, and there was one time, I can't, I don't know, I can't remember where it was, but I was talking to someone and I had told them ah that my name had changed. And I'm like, Oh, what is it now? i'm Like, well, it's Gleischmann. And they were just like, Oh.
00:01:54
Speaker
That's harder. I'm thinking, who asked you? Nobody. Whereas everyone comes in a mind, they were like, oh. That's so much better. Yes, but yeah, like I hear Gleichmann, Glichmann was new, but it's Gleichmann and there's two ends at the end of it, which is another thing. And it's not an I before E. No. So I think that confuses people too. Yes. Also, it confuses me now because I try to email your husband and email you instead. Yes. And it's a problem because we all work together. We all work together. That's where I met him. So, and then for a while there we were working the same team. So that was even more.
Spoilers and Themes in Midnight Mass Episode 4
00:02:33
Speaker
more confusing and I still like even though it is my name it still hits me sometimes where I'm like logging in and I say Why is Kyle's name coming up? Oh, it's my name too. Okay. Yeah. So if you get random invites to meetings, you're not supposed to be at it's probably for Kyle. Uh, if it's from me and same for, uh, Kyle, yeah I would get the same thing with the other Rachel at work too. I i get invited to her meetings or get asked questions about her program. thinking i I don't know this, and it didn't help that my chief engineer.
00:03:03
Speaker
on the program that I was working was also working her program. So I would use him as kind of a bellwether to tell if I needed to pay attention to this email or not. And then like when he would show up on both emails, like it was completely confusing. So we are going to go once again, full spoilers for Midnight Mass, full spoilers. We're talking about episode four, Lamentations. If you've listened to our previous Midnight Mass episodes, if there is something that is foreshadowing something in a later episode, we will mention it. So full spoilers for the full show all the way. Please watch Midnight Mass. We highly recommend it. That's why we are episode by episode discussing the show that we are obsessed with going into it.
00:03:45
Speaker
The baby. The baby. Littlefoot. Oh my goodness. I just, my heart breaks for, I've never, I've never been in that position. I mean, obviously she's in a very unique position, but that I know her, her situation is not unlike something that so like millions of women have experienced and it still just chokes me up seeing like, and I know she, she invested a lot in that baby. That baby saved her and now the baby's gone.
00:04:14
Speaker
And just ah such a heart wrenching scene. Yeah, and and it's just like, I mean, to your point, going forward to when she's talking to Riley about it, and how the baby saved her, right? Like, I was thinking about her mom telling her that horrible story about the bird and clipping wings. And it's like, but her baby did the opposite for her, right? Whereas for some people, a baby can be like an anchor, right? For her, the baby gave her something outside of herself to live for.
00:04:44
Speaker
and to have that taken from her but it also and I know I'm skipping around but like in her monologue later when she's like basically says like God didn't send you here for a purpose he wanted you back I'm like no the baby's purpose was to save you yeah like And then it's just like emotions. Yes, I know. But the creepy horror aspect of all this is the baby's just gone. Yeah. And it looks like she's never been pregnant. Yeah. Which is this is something I don't understand. I don't because having a baby is natural. So I don't understand why her body would treat this as like some sort of a parasite. I don't know if that's what's going on here. And so by her partaking in the vampire blood at the communion, like
00:05:31
Speaker
Why would it attack the baby? That's something I don't understand. So I have a couple of thoughts. One is that while having a baby is natural, there's a lot of weirdness in the uterus that protects you the baby from you. And if it's not there, your body will attack the baby and kill it.
00:05:47
Speaker
because you know how like if you have an organ that's not yours you have to take your body that is constantly trying to get rid yeah of it because it's like this is a foreign invader the thing that makes the uterus and the placenta which is a temporary organ right special is how it like protects the baby from your immune system or else your immune system would eradicate it, right? And then the placenta also allows the blood swapping, which is weird and nobody actually understands, right? Because you and your baby don't have the same blood type. And usually your baby has more closer to the dad's blood type, which I also find weird. Wouldn't the baby also be getting the vampire blood though? And wouldn't that just make it like super baby? Would it? Or is there some weirdness in the placenta? like So there's so much we don't know. Does the placenta like filter out the vampire? The placenta filters out a lot.
00:06:37
Speaker
And it allows for the exchange. just like when So i obviously my daughter is 18 months old, so I didn't have a baby that long ago. And I would ask questions about these things, like not the entire baby. I could just see you in the doctor's office. So what would happen in if you had a vampire baby?
00:06:52
Speaker
If you drink vampire blood while you're pregnant, like would the baby become a vampire? Would your body get rid of it? I mean, I've heard theories. But ultimately, it seems like to me from everything I read and heard, it's that people don't really know why the magic and the placenta happens, which is why when you're given shots when you're pregnant, it's hit or miss on whether like,
00:07:15
Speaker
They have to do trials to determine if that shot will be transferred to the baby and some do right That's why they want you to get the tetanus shot when you're pregnant even if you've had it even if you're covered They give you the shot again when you're pregnant so that the baby gets tetanus immunity and then the new RSV shot works that same way but it took them they had been trying that RSV shot for like 20 years and they couldn't get one that actually did that so like What causes things to go through?
00:07:45
Speaker
they don't understand. So that's one of the things I was thinking about. The other thing is I was thinking about is vampires are dead. Yes, she's not dead yet. She's not dead yet. But the vampire blood is like bringing you to a perfect like health position. And then it's gonna kill you and bring you back. Right? And maybe a baby just can't survive that process. Maybe, because like, what's the perfect health for ah like inside you baby because they all seem to be going towards like other than like I don't really understand because the kids don't seem to be like aging up right so that's something else that I also was curious about because they um I mean yeah I don't think they were drinking it maybe they were drinking it but they don't seem to be like well Warren's definitely drinking it right right he's a teenager and it's not like he's aging up maybe it's because it's like the
00:08:39
Speaker
best time that they've like grown to on her. Kind of like how Erin says, like she when she's in heaven, she is in the form that like on her best day on earth. And so maybe the kids, like that is their best day on earth. like that I mean, them not being sick or whatever, but they haven't gotten to the point where they've reached like, this is the peak.
00:09:01
Speaker
uh this is as good as you're going to get it's all down hell from here they haven't gotten there yet so they are every day they experience life is their best best day yes yeah but i feel like with the baby like regardless of the science of vampire blood the thematic importance of the baby disappearing is that this is not a good thing right because Pruitt is so in on this is like the new promise God has brought them right that this is the resurrection like the second coming right but it's like
00:09:38
Speaker
This is a, if, if you had thought, if you had made it this far in the show and thought maybe this vampire thing isn't that bad an idea, he pru its onto something it's like, what do we really think that when Jesus comes back, that when the resurrection, you knew heaven and new earth happens, it would kill the life, right? Like, and it's like, no, no, I don't think Jesus is on board with that. Like, so, and she,
00:10:06
Speaker
She wants the baby. That baby is her hope for the future. And it goes back to like Pruitt didn't ask for any of their consent before doing this. And he stole this from her. And it makes me think of last episode with Lisa. You reached into my future and you stole. Yes. And that's what Pruitt did to Aaron.
00:10:27
Speaker
And it's like, I feel like that's also why Erin has to die in the end, right? And we'll talk about that too with Riley and why thematically, he also has to die, right? But like, she can't, like, there's nothing, like, this was her future. This was her hope. And I think she could have, if the whole vampire thing hadn't happened, I obviously think she could have healed. And and Riley could have lived lived together and had little babies. But, you know, like, she lost.
00:10:57
Speaker
her her purpose and when she realizes like here she thinks it's like freak of nature accident yeah but then when you realize what happened what happened like Pruitt took this from you right and I know I don't know if she ever like faces it that directly yeah I don't think she does but I think it's what allows her to be willing to die for the island And I think that in order for them all to live in the end, everyone on, no, in order for the vampires to not spread, the adults had to be willing to die on that Island, right? And it's the, and Erin would not have, she would have had to have been on the boat with Warren, right? yeah It probably would have been Erin and Lisa and Warren would have had to die, right? Like, because, you know,
00:11:43
Speaker
to Catholic culture, they're gonna put the women on the boat and Warren's old enough that he can fight. Yeah, it's just it's just heartbreaking, especially when she goes to the mainland. And they're like, basically call her insane. Yeah, like oh we we have some psychologists you could talk to. ah I was pregnant.
00:12:01
Speaker
But I just I mean, wouldn't she have medical records? I'm assuming that. But you wouldn't bring them with you. Right. So she's going to the island to get like a not like a checkup. Not the island. the main Mainland to, you know, be like my doctor with her island technology, which is at the top of the line, says the baby is gone. Right. So can you just, you know, get a look at it? So they do the, you
Faith, Family, and Redemption in Midnight Mass
00:12:27
Speaker
know, um I'm sure they did an ultrasound.
00:12:29
Speaker
And then they did the blood test. And the blood test, they're looking for HCG, human, blah, blah, blah, blah, bla whatever. It's the hormone. The pregnancy hormone. The pregnancy hormone. Which is also what pregnancy tests detect. Right. So that's why she says your body has never been pregnant because that just doesn't disappear. Right. Like, you know, you have it for like weeks after you miscarry or give birth. And so it's like it's just in your system. And it's like it's not in her system. So it's like,
00:13:00
Speaker
I mean, maybe that's it. like I mean, other than like obviously her body also reabsorbed this baby. But going back to the science, like that hormone is so weird and random. Maybe the vampire blood's like regulating you back to like a... What it would normally be. Which also makes me wonder, sorry, to get in way too deep. like What is this doing to the periods of the women on this island? like Is it reversing Annie's menopause? Is it bringing everyone to menopause? like What's happening here? I don't know. This show is written by a man. They're never going to explore that. but like And I and it's only over like two months Which isn't too crazy to like randomly skip a period if that is the effect so you know like like Mildred is so young in the end Like Millie. Yeah, like does it reverse menopause? Like I just feel like they maybe wouldn't even be going through that like I don't know which comes back to like because vampires are dead, right? Yeah vampires don't get pregnant. But then would it stop?
00:13:55
Speaker
all bleeding, right? And they just wouldn't have periods. I don't know. These are the kind of questions I have about vampire signs. When and if they were having periods, wouldn't that lure the vampire? Oh. I don't know. I mean, Erin's fight with fight is too strong a word. Her disagreement with Sarah is that she didn't bleed.
00:14:18
Speaker
Right, like she had that one incident of spotting. Yeah, but the baby was fine because she was too far along for it to be like the kind of miscarriage where it's just a period because I get the impression that she's like What like four or five months long? Yeah, so like that's like You would know you would know it would hurt like But she lost the baby which is why this episode is entitled Lamentations I mean, there's a lot of things that go on in this episode. But why don't we go straight into blasphemy? So you know we ended the last episode with Pruitt dying and coming back. So after Aaron and the doctor.
00:15:00
Speaker
We go to Sturge looking at- The newspaper. The newspaper, realizing that Pruitt, ah paul Father Paul is Father Pruitt, mind being blown. Bev's like, has all this stuff been taken care of? Have you guys checked in on him? And Sturge is like, I'm gonna quote it. So I apologize for my language. He's gonna say, we were a little scared shitless, truth be told. And I'm like, yeah, that's wise. You are still sane. And she's like, you are scared. What, what? I'm like, I'm sorry.
00:15:30
Speaker
this was creepy uh i mean if you saw someone die in front of you and then come back to life yes no that would be terrifying yes that is the only one who is like strange on this island who has the logic does not make sense so so prude is starving Yes, you hear his stomach growling. Bev brings some soup or something, some sort of food. He doesn't want that. He doesn't want that. It's clearly not hitting the spot. They have like a little moment together. Blast for me. Blast for me. Okay, so we we talked about this right before the podcast, but the thing that gets me
00:16:04
Speaker
is when she says she's talking about all the other people in the Bible who have been resurrected and how he's part of a small club. i And then she's like, Jesus took three days to walk that road and you did it in three minutes. I'm like, I saw that when I was rewatching it and I was just like, wait, what?
00:16:27
Speaker
Did she just elevate him? Yes. Because I think she said, even Jesus took three days to do this. Yes. And you did it in three minutes. She's implying he's better than Jesus. Yes. I have many thoughts about this, one of which is Bev is hermeneutic, unsurprisingly, is wrong.
00:16:45
Speaker
Right. Yes. It being shorter is not more impressive. Right. He wasn't even dead long enough to have brain damage. It wasn't because it took Jesus three days to resurrect. I mean, he could have done it like three seconds. So rationale for how long it took Jesus to come back. Sorry, I don't know God's real plan, but like part of it. Right. And you see this with Lazarus because Lazarus, it was like four days. Yeah. Right. Is there is a certain amount of time especially in ancient cultures where you're like maybe they're not really dead right because you don't know like back in the day being buried alive was a thing that could happen
00:17:24
Speaker
Right? But after three days, if you have not... There's no doubt. You're dead. Now granted, Jesus' three-day death was actually like 48 hours. The Romans counted days differently. They count day one as what we would say zero, they say as one. Right? So Jesus died on Friday. He was raised on a Sunday. When I was a kid, that really confused me because I was like, that's not three days. This is things I learned in Latin class. But the Romans didn't have a concept of zero.
00:17:52
Speaker
But regardless, it is long enough that everyone is like beyond a shadow of a doubt, this man is dead. With Lazarus, it was even like double that, right? It was like four days and Jesus rolls in and Mary and Martha are like, what's wrong with you, Jesus? like And he's like, I'll roll this turn away. Like, no, you don't smell bad. like like You can't do this. The longer it is, the more impressive the resurrection. A doctor can bring you back after three minutes. Yes. That's not miraculous. I mean, okay. I that and don't want to knock modern medicine. It is in fact miraculous that we can bring you back from flat line, that is.
00:18:31
Speaker
but It's not as miraculous. As Bev just made it up to me. Yes. It is less miraculous. So I'm like, if he died in front of me like that, I would be like, Oh, he was never really dead. He just like, I don't know, seized or something. Yeah, he seized. I not being a doctor thought he was dead, but clearly he wasn't or something happened and his heart kicked back. Cause I think like it's five minutes that you have to be without oxygen to be like brain dead. Yes. So he wasn't even there. Like he didn't even reach the five minute mark.
00:19:00
Speaker
You can hold your breath for three minutes if you're like an impressive super diver. Once again, not impressive. I don't know why Bev is like... I mean, his eyes like did look scary. I will give him that. And he threw up all that weird blood and stuff. It was very weird. Yes, it's traumatizing. I don't want to get past the fact that if I was the mayor and his wife, I would also be scared out of my mind. But Jesus's death being longer is more impressive. Yes. Not less impressive. Yes.
00:19:23
Speaker
And once again, Lazarus still holds the record. so ah And then Jesus was just like, yeah, they're Lazarus, what are you doing? Lazarus was like, I just wanted to take a rest. That would have been funny. Could you imagine if Lazarus had come out with a snarky comment? I'm sorry, that would have been great.
00:19:40
Speaker
Like I just needed some peace for my sisters, Jesus. Gosh. go And I was finally at rest, they weren't bothering me and you brought me back down here. What's wrong with you? One thing I did think was interesting is that in the scene when he's like not eating and talking about how he's not feeling good, Bev is willing to call Sarah for him. She says, do you want me to call Dr. Gunning? And I just think it's interesting that it's like, even though Sarah is like,
00:20:11
Speaker
Heretic's not the right word. Apostate? Yeah. She's an apostate, right? Like, she was raised in the church, she was baptized in the church, and now she's like an atheist, right? Presumably. Yes. I don't think we know for sure, but but... She's certainly not... She's certainly... Practicing. Yes. Certainly not practicing, certainly dating women, which is frowned upon in the Catholic Church. Does deaf know that?
00:20:33
Speaker
Well, she brought a woman to the... Yeah, but I don't know. I feel like it's a small island. And I don't feel like Sarah's in the closet, right? Well, obviously not if she's showing up and with noodling with a woman. like But it's like there's one thing on this island where she's willing to be like, there's someone else that maybe we should call. And it's like health and doctors. Because I feel like she would never say, maybe we should call the sheriff.
00:20:58
Speaker
No. Ever. And not even- Well, especially if it's Sheriff Hassan, so. She's racist. Yes. Bev.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yes. She's the worst. Also, Pruitt in the scene calls Bev someone a person of great faith. And I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
00:21:20
Speaker
okay I just, I don't know, I wrestle so much with how he treats her because I mean, I get he had, he had lost his mind and he sees her as like 12 or whatever. And he can be like, Oh, you're like, you're so up and coming. You have so much potential. And I love this. And, but now he's a young man. He has supposedly his wits about him and he's still still can't see how conniving and horrible she is. I just think he, I think that's one of Pruitt's character flaws is that when he looks at people like Bev and Riley and Aaron is that he sees the 12 year old version of them. And and I think
00:22:08
Speaker
He just wants to go back. like that's his whole like He wants to go back in time, right? and i And I don't think he can see people for who they really are. And maybe he considers that love. Maybe. Because to to not recognize people's flaws. But I think true love, you understand, you know a person, you know who they are, the good and the bad. And either you work to help that person overcome those flaws or you You compensate somehow. And I think he probably looks at her and his version of love as I'm going to ignore the problematic aspects of this woman. and Because that's that's what true love is, is loving someone despite you know looking at someone and thinking that they're perfect the way they are.
00:22:59
Speaker
I know I'm having weird thoughts. you They're not the same generation, but you have like these kind of like four people that he obviously knew when they were children. You have Bev, Sarah, Riley, and Aaron. And I feel like Bev and Sarah are probably closer in age to each other. And then we obviously know that Riley and Aaron. And there's probably like a gap between there, right? And obviously he can't see Sarah, he sees no flaws in Sarah, right? Because she's his daughter, right? right Like, which which is interesting, because, you know, from a, like a Catholic priest perspective, you would think he would be upset that she's gay. But I don't even think he cares about that. Right? I think it's backwards. The people he loves determines
00:23:43
Speaker
what How he because it's the same with himself, right? He can't judge himself for his own I'm gonna use the word infidelity. He wasn't he was cheating on God I guess right like case he took a vow of celibacy and he was committing adultery with a married woman and he sees like he knows what he was doing was wrong in the eyes of like the church, but he in the end, very clearly thinks that what he did was not wrong. Well, I think this goes along with his character because he's a very ends justify the means type of thing. And we've noticed that with his, um, ah have we talked about the, the, no, we haven't talked about the rat or the mouse or whatever. Have we gotten to that episode? I don't think so. Because no, I don't think so. Because because I think it's next episode. Yeah, I think it's next episode after this traumatizing ending of this episode. was Yes. Where he, uh, I mean, it's very obvious. He doesn't mind telling lies.
00:24:36
Speaker
if it means that there's going like if it means it furthers the kingdom of God. but he He rationalizes his sins, basically. yes So Sarah, she was a beautiful thing. She's a wonderful thing. So therefore,
00:24:49
Speaker
what how she was created, how she came into being couldn't be bad. like right But I was also thinking like Riley, he does call out at several times, right? Because Riley obviously did something bad, murder, and it the law decided he was bad. And like I said, this is this I'm just thinking about right now. So this is not a fully thought out thought. Considering Pruitt's age, religion, and like the time period he's he's from, it's like it almost comes across a little sexist.
00:25:19
Speaker
that like Riley he thinks is capable of like reforming like like should become a better person and it's almost like paternalistic towards the women like oh you beautiful cute little thing right like because he never he never calls any of them like he never
Temptation and Self-Control: Joe vs. Pruitt
00:25:35
Speaker
sees anything wrong with Bev he never sees anything wrong with Sarah he you know never sees anything wrong with Millie no no he never sees anything wrong with them whereas with with Joe and Riley he's like lay it all out put it on the table and I feel like I've met men in the church like that who are like when it comes to men they hold each other to like a standard right and they're like we men must achieve this and then when women air they're like oh well pat their head you cute little thing you know women wear a lettuce stray by the snake in the garden so Michael, this is how they make decisions. They're just not as capable as men. I think he does tell Bev, ah not off, but he does correct her near the end. Near the end, but it takes a lot. It takes a lot for him to be like, yeah, so you messed up. Maybe the whole town getting murdered. So maybe murder is just Pruitt's line. Maybe all other sins are acceptable.
00:26:27
Speaker
Except it's not because Joe, so. But that's, that's, that's different because apparently like God wanted him got to murder Joe to die. At least that's what Bev ah bev seems to insinuate. ah but That's later in this episode. Yeah. All right. So mass is canceled.
00:26:45
Speaker
because Pruitt can't go outside and he's still quote unquote feeling bad. A little nitpick I had here. like he So it's obviously he had tried to like go into the sun with his hand a little scarred. But I'm surprised he got scarred because aren't aren't you supposed to heal? I thought about this. ok I literally thought about this in this episode. So there's two scenes, right? He does that, his hand is scarred. Later, he's like super hungry and he's praying and he messes up his hand, right? And it's horrible looking. yeah He drinks the blood from his hand, it starts healing. I don't think a vampire can heal unless they drink blood. So at this point he's not had any blood to drink. So he can't heal himself. So I feel like he shouldn't be able to just feed off of himself. Yeah, that seemed weird. I bet I imagine maybe your own blood tastes weird. I don't know. I don't know. Because he like drinks it and thinking he could be a perpetual emotion machine. He could just drink your blood. I'm hungry. But maybe it's like how you
00:27:45
Speaker
could hydrate yourself from your own pee, but you shouldn't. It's true. I don't know, but I don't know. Vampires. Probably digging way too deep into this. The logistics of vampires, people. Also, okay, going back to blasphemy, it really disturbs me when Bev calls Dolly Wade and Sturge and her apostles. Yeah, that's not what an apostle is.
00:28:12
Speaker
no one outside of Jesus should have apostles. That's once again, it's elevating Pruitt to Jesus's level. I mean, she's already done that though. So like I'm just saying if she had called, like if I had been there, no one was there on the scene because she was like, they're going to be good apostles to you. But she's clearly, she is all in on the fact that he is like the second coming. Yes. Like she just went straight there. And if you were there on this island, like you would have chased these people out of town.
00:28:38
Speaker
They would have chased me out of town. Well, there would have been a fight. It would have been very entertaining. It probably would have been. i would that yeah That church is not big enough for me to not have stood up in sermon and been like, I have opinions. This is heresy. I know I'm not Catholic, but this is even heresy for the Catholics. You are wrong. You are wrong. Everything is wrong. Oh, you and Bev would have gone at it. Oh my gosh. I would have hated her. I would either destroy her or I would go out of my way to like never see her. but There's one or two options.
00:29:08
Speaker
The two of you would go into a room, only one would be leaving. and Oh my gosh. If my kid had been a kid in her class where they were teaching the Bible, like I would be like, surely we have a superintendent. Like, I don't know what's happening, but I'm calling a lawyer. Like Sheriff Hassan, you want to get in on this? He'd be like, you're a Christian. I'm like, I don't care. I don't want her teaching like that. So he'd say you were a Christian. Oh, a Christian. Is this a Britishism? I think it is a Britishism. I think we had, I think I looked it up and I think it is a Britishism. So so weird. It is so weird. just Call them Catholic.
00:29:39
Speaker
If you can't say Christian, call them Catholic. Anyway, sorry. So Riley and his dad have a conversation on the boat. They don't bring, once again, I will never remember dad's name. Just throwing that out there. I thought we had figured this out. And I can't remember. I will never, like even in the episode, I'm like, I have no idea what his name is. Is it Ed? Maybe it's Ed. That feels close enough.
00:30:01
Speaker
Uh, that is his name now. Uh, but, uh, his name is dad. i And just like, I have a lot of feelings about this conversation because like, I feel like, so it's clear that Pruitt asked or told, recommended that the dad hash this out with Riley. I don't think this conversation is helpful to Riley.
00:30:29
Speaker
The dad's like, I resented you basically because you thought you were better than us. And Riley's like, I tried to explain to you my job and you wouldn't listen. And the dad's like, that doesn't even matter. And then you get and killed this girl. And there was all the other stuff, but then we had to pay all this money on top. And I feel like Riley's like, I know that and already blame myself for this. And then it's like, and then the dad's like, and I blame myself for all of this.
00:30:59
Speaker
And then he does the thing that parents do and this is a real thing and it drives me insane where they issue a blanket apology. And you're like, this is not helpful. Like now you're just making me feel guilty. And like Riley like doesn't respond at the end. Like he can't respond because what can you say? Like, how is this conversation helpful to their relationship?
00:31:18
Speaker
And I feel like sometimes Pruitt's meaning well, but his advice, like, does he really understand family dynamics? I don't, I don't think so. But I do think Riley did have some emotions after that. And cause I, I, I wasn't sure if he was, if he was touched because he's like, well, that wasn't super helpful, but like my dad was trying when that kind of means something to me.
00:31:43
Speaker
Or if it was, yeah, this made me feel worse about myself because like you basically told me that you blame yourself for all of the things that I did. so Which are my choices, right? like Because the dad says something like, children don't do what you did unless one of their parents is messed up right or messed them up or wherever he says. He says something like that, right?
00:32:05
Speaker
And so I think, I do think his dad was trying to help and trying to be, you know, obviously I messed up somewhere. Like the stuff is not your fault. Clearly this was me. So, but I feel like trying to remove that burden from him, but part of the steps of AA is realizing you are the only person that controls you. Right. And so it's like,
00:32:28
Speaker
trying to take that agency off of him is not actually helpful because one of the things Riley really had to come to is that no he did like the what he said it in an earlier episode right the monster killed that girl and the monster was him right like which once again comes back to why Riley doesn't ever give in to the vampire right because he has been a monster before and he'll never be that again. I mean I also think that this it's it's a good scene to have in the show because I think it speaks to both dad and his relationship with Riley and Riley's really like they've clearly had a contentious relationship their whole life and like the dad feels like Riley resents everything but like of course he did. Why would you want to grow up in that horrible little island like
00:33:14
Speaker
I also wonder if that's, I mean, that's what parents do. Parents try to shoulder burdens when they can. They try to protect their kids from having to deal with consequences or deal with hard things. that So I feel like he's still trying to do that. Was it helpful? Probably not. But I think i think that was his intent going into this conversation.
00:33:37
Speaker
even though it might not have helped Riley that much. Dad is trying. At least he doesn't give in to the vampire in the end either. No. You know, and there's like three people on this island who understand murder is bad. I don't... she I don't know.
00:33:54
Speaker
oh don't murder people All of you listening out there, it is bad. We don't recommend it. No. Or becoming a vampire. No, don't do that either. So then we go to Sarah and Millie and Millie just like. Fine. Walking around. Yeah. Talking. I love how like.
00:34:14
Speaker
My favorite part of the cognizance check is when she asked, what was my father's name? And she like thinks for a second, like that's like from Sarah's perspective. She's just like, Oh, this is like Alzheimer's. Yes. And you people watching it for the first time thinking, Oh yeah, she's, she's slowly getting her memory back. And it's like, no, she knows exactly who Sarah's father was, but she has to remember the lie that she's told Sarah.
00:34:42
Speaker
her whole life and say that instead. And what's interesting to me is that Sarah says specifically, what's my dad's name? Yes. And Millie says your father's name. And I'm just like, is there like a nuance in that? I'm sure there is. I mean, she's lied to Sarah her whole life. So of course, and then like when she got dementia, of course, like she doesn't have to lie because she doesn't remember. But although I think she kind of does.
00:35:08
Speaker
Cause during the thunderstorm, remember she says, I saw your father out there. Yes. And it's cause she thought she saw Pruitt. Yes. And then the the scene ends with, uh, she puts the blood on the corner and it freaks out.
00:35:20
Speaker
Although I would love to know what the but the hospital on the mainland would have. If she was ever involved, should I send it there? yeah Can you look at this and it like explodes on the way to here? I was like, she would have to like really wrap it if she was going to send it to the mainland, yeah right? Which I wonder if that was part of their plan in the end when they were trying to escape to the mainland, right? Sarah, Erin, and Millie, right, in the like the last episode, is like, if we just take Millie as the vessel to check her blood.
00:35:48
Speaker
right like because uh we're not getting that blood in the mail no no it's not happening then
Riley's Prophetic Dreams and Introspection
00:35:55
Speaker
we go back to aaron yeah i have written down so aaron's mom is a piece of work
00:36:02
Speaker
Also, we get the Bible verse of this episode. yeah get a style Lamentations 1-12. Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? sorry this is king james hers Behold, and see if there be any sorrow, like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger.
00:36:21
Speaker
So once again, coming back to Erin's point that her mom is a piece of work because she's comparing her pain to Israel. I don't think it makes you a piece of work to compare your pain to Israel because I feel like that's why Lamentations is there to let us know that bad times happen. I feel like what makes Erin's mother a piece of work is that her lament is that she had a daughter. Well, I guess, I mean, is it because she wanted to go out and do things?
00:36:46
Speaker
Like, did she want to leave the island? Erin's not keeping her on the island. Erin would have happily left the island. Yes. I feel like her mother is just an abusive jerkface who wants to blame other people for her life not going how it went. But Erin seems to like her father. And so I'm like, why didn't the mother just leave, right? Like she could have left them. Right. And I know abusive people, they don't they like part of it. They actually like having the control over people.
00:37:15
Speaker
like and then having someone else that you can say like your life is going off the rails but it's not my fault it's your fault right like i feel like that feels like it absolves them from something but saying that like like looking at this this verse is there any sorrow like unto my sorrow what's her sorrow erin yeah like that's horrible And she didn't keep it from her daughter either that that like it's not I resent you and I'm not gonna let you I'm gonna try not to let you know it's like this woman had no problem telling Erin how much she ruined her life.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yes. Like if Erin was using this verse to talk about her miscarriage, I feel like that would be appropriate. Right. Right? To be like, I feel this kind of pain and it's comforting to me to know that people have been feeling this kind of pain for thousands of years. Like I feel like that's the power of like the depressing Psalms, Lamentations, all that kind of stuff, right? Because you can be like,
00:38:10
Speaker
I'm not alone. People have gone through this before and they survived, right? And like, there's words, especially for those of us who aren't poets, right? Like there are words that are expressing what I'm feeling. i But the fact that Erin's mom's sorrow is Erin. It's horrible. It's horrible! And she tells me once again, she tells her that. When were your wings clipped, Mommy?
00:38:34
Speaker
The day you were born and I feel like once again this time ever cuz cuz Flanagan is super smart like this, right? Yes, like everything ties together, right because Riley is the one Aaron is talking to and his dad just told him that said to him I must be a horrible person me dad because you did this so it's my fault like Meanwhile, Erin's mom is actually a horrible person. And Erin, like the most she did bad, was run away and get into drugs and alcohol for a little bit. I mean, she even got married. She even married the guy. Like, if Ellen got pregnant, like, I mean, I feel like there was an implication that she was, you know, wild child while doing some drugs, doing some ah probably light drugs. She doesn't strike me as like a meth addict or something, right? Probably the more like your
00:39:29
Speaker
marijuana's and things like that. But like, that she was kind of living that lifestyle. She was with this abusive guy because she married her mother, which is actually really common for people who come from abusive. Yeah. And it's like, but she didn't murder anyone. You know, like she didn't become a bad person. Like whereas Riley's like, actually, my parents are awesome. And I became a bad person. Okay, so in this whole conversation between Aaron and Riley, one thing I was thinking about is Aaron technically still legally married? Oh,
00:39:59
Speaker
I don't know. Cause if she's not, she needs to fix that before she has this baby and or just Cause I think if you are married and you have a baby, if you were legally married, your husband's name goes on the birth certificate. I can't imagine that she kept, like that she- But she ran away. So did she like- Yeah, but you can still run away and have like divorce papers delivered to- But it's only been like three months. Still, I just hope she's not legally married. I'm imagining that she was like, I need to get out of here. I need to completely get away from this guy, like everything. And I think she would understand.
00:40:35
Speaker
that if she was married to him when she had this baby, this would be bad for... for so many reasons. So I feel like she she seems like a responsible adult at this point. So I feel like she would have taken care of that, or at least he's in the process of taking care of that. I hope so because, you know, the reason to put a man you're not married to his name on the birth certificate, if he is the biological father, is so that you can get things like child support, custody agreements. But if he's an abusive jerkface, you don't want him, you don't want to take his money.
00:41:07
Speaker
right like you don't want anything from him because you don't want to be tied at all you want this person to fall off the face of the planet yes and you don't want him to have any rights to this child you don't want to take him to court like you don't like this man needs to be off the books and just leave the father blank yes like See, Amanda, you need to be on this island. You you would set people straight. I feel like the island lawyer, and I'm not even a lawyer. And you're like, what are you doing? Drop him. Give him a chance. Did we get a divorce? I will help you. Let me fill out the paperwork for you. Once again, if I was on this island, they would have probably burned me as a heretic long ago because not Catholic. But you know, um.
00:41:45
Speaker
You talk sense. I try. Don't murder people. One thing I was thinking about in this section is, you know, Riley's talking about how the baby saved her. Not Riley. Aaron. Sorry. They both have very gender neutral names. It's true. I have known girl Riley's. And I've known more Aaron's.
00:42:04
Speaker
To be fair, boy errands have different spellings. Which I don't understand, but that's neither here nor there. Uh, it makes me wonder if girl Erin actually just like comes from a completely different language. I feel like it does. I think it's like Irish isn't it? That feels right. So Riley then responds with a dream. That's like a complete non sequitur. Right? At first when you don't like, she's like, this baby saved me and now she's gone. And Riley's like, you know, sometimes I have this dream of sitting on a boat. Like I feel like if I was Erin, I'd be like,
00:42:33
Speaker
are we talking about right now?" I was like, that's cool, but, um, and bring this back to me. But he does, yeah right? Like he has a purpose. It's just when he starts, you're like, I don't know what's happening, right? They're close. And so I feel like they could have random conversations like this, but But he brings it back to, he feels like the boat is the end of his life. And then he sees the sunrise, and then he sees nothing beyond that ever. And he has no future beyond that. And he says to her, I'm never getting off this island. But then he tells her,
00:43:09
Speaker
that he thinks she could do anything, that she could get off the island, right? Which I think ties into the end, right? It ties into everything. Because obviously Riley, we I don't know if we've actually already discussed his prophetic dreams. I feel like we have. He has prophetic dreams. Yes. Right? This is really going to happen. I think we have. Yes. I feel like we have because it's at the end of episode one, right? Where there's he sees a lot of things. He sees the church.
00:43:31
Speaker
He has some sort of gift of prophecy, right aye which is an interesting touch on an atheist character. I love it. right yeah He knows he's going to end. He knows he can't save them. But Aaron can do anything. And Aaron is part of the team that does save, for loose definitions, the word save.
00:43:55
Speaker
they saved the They saved the world. They saved the world. They don't save the island, but they saved the world. yeah like She is capable of saving them, whereas he was not. Right? Right. And I think that's really... I feel like Riley is really insightful.
00:44:12
Speaker
into people's character, which we also see in this episode when he stops trusting Pruitt. Yeah. Like he, and I don't know if it's just because he's had to do so much introspection of himself, but he's become very good at like seeing through people and analyzing them. Then we go back to the priest. Well, I actually think, so it's, it's too, well, I guess it does go back to him, but I found the next couple of scenes interesting because it compares and contrasts how Pruitt and Joe are both fighting their temptations. Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. Please, expound. So like you see Pruitt's like, he's hungry, he knows what he's craving, he doesn't want to crave it, and he's doing everything he can to not go after it.
00:44:58
Speaker
And he seemed praying, he seemed like the Hail Marys, everything to try and keep himself
Philosophical Musings on Mortality and Purpose
00:45:05
Speaker
from doing this. And I guess to be fair, I think he's ever had to deal with something like this before. and I think the closest would have been Milly if he had been able to withstand Milly. Yes. Which he obviously couldn't. No. But like I find that interesting. And so like you see that scene where he like he puts himself and he's drinking the blood and he's like, oh, you did it. And then like it goes to Joe.
00:45:28
Speaker
standing in the convenience store like staring at the at the beer and like you can tell he's going through the same feelings of like I know what I want and I know what I should do and I don't know how to deal with this and I honestly think he's handling it better than Pruitt is and like you have your façade saying so what how's my night going to be and then like Joe like okay he gets up like he like walks away or whatever so and feel like Joe's struggle is public yes which I think helps him. Whereas the priest is hiding it, right? Right. So I don't know. I found it interesting because I didn't want get it until I watched it this time and I was like, Oh, that's a cool comparison. And I think it goes along with the theme of the vices in our life or the things in our life that aren't inherently bad, but when they are used to hurt people or they become out of control, that's when they become bad. So I thought that was a really cool comparison there.
00:46:26
Speaker
how Pruitt and Joe were battling their temptations. I didn't think about this at all. so yeah like One of the fruits of the spirit is self-control. I don't drink. and i you know I've had conversations with other Christians who aye you drink at a variety of levels and it's fine, right? But one of them said to me one time something like, yeah, but that feeling of being buzzed to just feels so good. And I'm like, but isn't that the part where your inhibitions start being released and you lose some of your self-control, right? And they're like, oh, I guess. And I'm like, isn't a fruit of the spirit self-control? So shouldn't we avoid those scenarios? I mean, you can't always avoid them. Like sometimes you have to take the drugs because you're in like serious pain or whatever, yeah right? But like ah being in control of ourselves
00:47:18
Speaker
and making decisions consciously to be able to choose right, right? And so when you let something else control you, you're... You're opening yourself. You're opening yourself, right? and like And that's also part of the difference between Pruitt and Bev, right? Like, Father Pruitt, for all that he does stumble in this episode, has remarkable self-control for a vampire. Like, he really does. Like, he...
00:47:46
Speaker
could have eaten many people. And he could have gone out and done whatever he wanted at night. Yes. The fact of the matter is, the only people he feeds from that we know of are the vampire Joe and Riley. Mm-hmm. That's it. And I think Riley was more of like, well, he's dead anyway. He's dead anyway. like Like, I'm not killing, I'm not killing him. So like, this is just fortuitous. Whereas like, Bev like immediately feels hunger and was like,
00:48:15
Speaker
Whatever. I'm just going to kill you all now. Right? She doesn't eat until she if she eats Annie. Yeah. but and But Annie also killed herself. So it was like the same situation as like Riley. where Yeah. Yeah. This person's dying. So I guess I can feed it. But Bev sets everyone loose. Yes. And says, do whatever you want.
00:48:32
Speaker
like Which is antithetical, right? like once Which once again, like I don't think Father Pruitt's actions, what happens in here is clearly very evil and obviously blasphemy, which is a kind of evil, right? But he is so well-intentioned and he is really trying. And he just has this remarkable self-control, but he doesn't teach that to anyone else except Riley.
00:49:00
Speaker
who already had remarkable self-control. But Riley has like evidence that at one point he didn't have self-control. And maybe that's why Pruitt's like, you need help. This is a weakness of yours. And I can tell. So everybody else is fine. Nobody else has gotten a DUI and killed the child. so like I don't need to worry about shepherding them because they obviously know not to do it. Clearly, if death becomes a vampire, she won't kill the whole island. Yeah, no. I'm sure it's fine. It's all going to be fine. It's all going to be fine. Then we get the scene of Pruitt bringing mass to Millie and she recognizes him. Mm-hmm. I'm rooting for them, but also
00:49:43
Speaker
No. And there's like, he's like, I have so much I want to tell you, but he makes it seem like they don't have time. And I'm like, if he had just told her everything right then, how much of the rest of the show would be averted?
00:49:56
Speaker
Yeah, because she doesn't find out what he's been up to until a couple episodes from now, right? Until the the Good Friday. Good Friday is when she begins, when she's like, we're never going back there. Yeah. And then it's when Sarah, Millie, and Aaron all decide something's going wrong, and they're gonna leave, and they know something's gonna go down on Easter, but they don't know what it is.
00:50:17
Speaker
Yeah. So she doesn't know the full picture until the very end. Oh, that's fair. So if he had just told her everything, she could have been like, okay, you're a vampire now. Uh, I'm going to give you consent to feed off of me. Nobody else. Nobody needs to know. Nobody needs to know. Like, and we're just going to keep it in the family and you're going to stop spiking the punch. Like we can be young. but You can have your second chance that you want and that, that, that's it. That's where it stops the end. Yeah. And that's not an angel.
00:50:47
Speaker
No, it's not what we would call an angel. No, no. All right. So what I love about Riley's monologue goes back to one of your earlier statements about how this show treats everyone's faith so well, because I feel like sometimes in Christian circles, we make atheist arguments into this complete straw man, right? Riley's view of what happens when he dies is actually beautiful.
00:51:17
Speaker
And for him, it's hopeful. Yes, because he's finally at peace. Yes. And I love that about this show, that it gives everyone's like,
00:51:28
Speaker
no one is a strawman, right? Like everyone's view. Unless they're like, like unless they are actually st strawman, like anything Bev says. Bev is just but bad at theology and is like purposefully doing things to control people. Right. But I think the point is like, he gives legitimacy to people's faith, unless they're using it for bad purposes, like Bev. Yes. And I appreciate, this is what I appreciate about the show is that It doesn't give the overall opinion that having faith is bad or people who have faith are just not educated or they're brainwashed or whatever. Like like when I watch it, it's like I can tell Bev, she is the problem.
00:52:09
Speaker
Catholicism, Christianity, that is not the problem. She is the problem because she abuses it. And yes, you use it it to control people. And so I don't walk away saying like, oh, court like, I don't walk away with the impression of like, well, she's a Christian. And that's just how Christians are. It's like, no, she's Bev. And that's how she is. like go And there are quote unquote Christians that do behave like her. But that's not, I don't know, Flanagan doesn't,
00:52:37
Speaker
attribute her behavior to the whole like family of believers out there. So that's something I find very refreshing about this the show. Yeah. Yes.
00:52:51
Speaker
And also part of Riley's monologue, he's already said that he feels like he lacks a purpose and a future. And he views in his death, he says, and I'm serving a purpose, I'm feeding life, right? Like that his death, his body like decomposing and like, you know, the worms eating it, like he finds that like he's serving a purpose finally. Cause he views no purpose in his life. And you're just like, kind of a purpose is that to like feed No, but I also think it's very circle of life, right? it's It's very Lion King. Not his depression, but the like, we die, we feed the grass, the gazelles eat the grass, we eat the gazelles, right? Like it's very Mufasa-esque. This is a child who obviously watched Lion King.
00:53:38
Speaker
in his youth. ah yeah i and And I just feel like that he, you know, he's not suicidal. Like he's not active at this point. He's not like actively like seeking out his death, but he's like, this is the thing that will give me peace. Like it will come, like he's not going to make it come early, but he knows that it's coming and that's what, that's what his future is. That is what his hope is is that one day we'll come to an end and he'll finally be at peace.
00:54:07
Speaker
yes which isn't all that different from some Christians, you know, who are like, in the end, I will also finally be at peace, right? I will be, which is kind of what Aaron gets to. Peace is just a different, like, there's a different definition of peace for for him, I think. Yes. Yes. Guilt is gone. Yes. Like, that's peace for him. I mean, I like to think guilt will be gone in heaven too. Yeah, well, it's not that, it but I don't think we, when we look at peace, I feel like it's like,
00:54:36
Speaker
We're not going to have to deal with health things anymore. We're not going to have to deal with saying goodbye to people anymore. We're not going to have to deal with work. and how horrible it can be sometimes anymore. That to us is peace. like And we won't always have to be worrying about if something can is gonna get done or not or whatever. like That to us is peace. But Riley has a different struggle in life. And that's that every day he has to deal with the fact that he killed someone. yeah And to him, peace is experiencing time where that thought never comes into his head anymore.
00:55:10
Speaker
Like, which is really sad, but to him, that's peace. That is the peace that he looks forward to. It's annihilation. I also, this is a tangent a little bit, but the song in the background, did you recognize it? I don't know. I remember being like, this is such a good song for this, but I don't remember what song it was now. I'm pretty sure it's nearer My God to Thee, which is the same song that they all sing at the end.
00:55:34
Speaker
So like foreshadows, like, and here they are talking about death. And that song is quietly playing in the background. And then it comes back full circle at the end. It's perfect. It is. I just was like, really chef's kiss. Like, this is so good. And then Erin talks about death and she doesn't speak for herself. She speaks for her baby. And it's just so beautiful. Like.
00:56:01
Speaker
and sad. Like she didn't even have a name and then like she slept and then she gets to heaven and she wakes up. and you just But I find it interesting about her monologue too is that like it's not she's with God who loves her. She's with her family that loves her and God just kisses her and she grows up and that's like it.
00:56:23
Speaker
and But she's not alone. Like, I don't know. I just felt like... I feel like that's not very different though from like, I feel like when I talk to a lot of Christians, the thing they talk about when they get to heaven is like the family that's going to be there. Yeah. Like that's where people's head instinctually goes to, which is actually really funny. I had this friend in college, right, who used to kind of make fun of that. She's like, can you imagine?
00:56:42
Speaker
We're all in heaven, right? God is there. And there's just like this one woman who's like, where's Bob? Have you seen Bob? You're up there. You're with God at that point. I mean, being with your family and seeing people that you haven't seen in decades probably, that'll be great too. Meeting Bible characters, that'll be awesome too. but like I will interrogate all of them. They should be prepared.
00:57:07
Speaker
girl up there like god keep keep Mandy on earth as long as you can please sque we are not emotionally prepared for this but I find that kind of weird that was like I don't know because I think there's some I think there is some comfort to of knowing that you're going like you're going to be with God and that your your baby is with God too and he is taking care of her and everything there is some comfort in that and I just I found it kind of weird that he was kind of like an afterthought in the yeah Oh, and and he's he's there. He places her and then she grows up and now she's with her family again. Like, I don't know, that part was a little like, I feel like we get it. She's mourning. She's in pain. But I think it also kind of shows a little bit for geology is a little, like a little off, but yeah. And I, and I, once again, I think.
00:57:59
Speaker
a lot of people's theology is a little off. Oh, for sure. I think it feels very real. and And I like parts of what she says, like no mansions, no rivers, you are loved and you aren't alone. Because I think that does feel accurate, right? Like the the mansions are just a metaphor, right? Right. That we're all going to have a place. And I think, but it's not like not everyone who goes to heaven is going to have family there.
00:58:20
Speaker
Right. But they're not going to feel alone. Right. Because they're gonna be with God. Right? Like, ah and she you're right. She loses sight of that. It's not that the family is there that you don't feel alone. It's because God is there. Right? You're with like, you were finally having that like intimacy with him that like, I mean, we, we have, we can talk to him whenever we want on earth, but it's different. Like I can text people,
00:58:46
Speaker
And be like, Hey, I'm with you. But being with them is a completely different experience. We have a long distance relationship with God right now. Yes. Yeah. And so this is going to be like, Oh, I'm going to finally get to be like in the room with him. Like I'm going to be able to, like, I'm going to be able to be in the room with him whenever I want. Like I i will not be able to get away from him. Like it's going to be because he's going to be everywhere and I'm going to be with him. Like, like, and I'm going to, I don't know. It's just that part's something I get it. Like I said,
00:59:16
Speaker
She's mourning. She wants her baby to be taken care of. She wants her baby with her family members that she loved. Obviously, her mom is not in this group. No, her mom is very clearly not in heaven. I also noted that too. I mean, that would not be believable if she wasn't there, given how she's treated Erin, apparently. So, but I don't know. I kind of and find Erin's faith journey interesting because I almost feel like she loses her faith in this whole process. But then I also kind of wondered like, well, does she have it in the first place or was she just going through motions? Like, so I guess things like this monologue kind of helped try to give me clues as to where she actually is in her faith. Like there's some people where it's very obvious. Yes, their faith is real. Like Annie Flynn's faith is real.
01:00:10
Speaker
Lisa's faith is real. Erin, Bev's obviously is not real because it's not... She thinks it's real. Yes, but it's not real. But I don't even think she thinks it's real because of the way she faces death in the end. She doesn't want... she's I think in her average life, she thinks it's real, but yeah in the end, it's very clearly not. she has no piece. Right. Right. Like, I mean, she won't drink the poison, then she like claws her way, trying to dig a hole on the beach so that she doesn't. That is the worst. Yes. Yes. But I don't know. I'm, I'm the jury is still out on my opinions of, of Aaron's faith. I just, I have to keep watching hand. And then it's also interesting not to get into a heaven hell discussion, but just to throw it out there. Right. Like, uh,
01:01:00
Speaker
you know hell is something i've thought a lot about in the past couple of years and i've actually come to you know this it's not truly heretical there are people who believe this the annihilation theory which is like you go to heaven or you're annihilated like it's not an internal torment and so it's like riley is not wrong but he's not right either uh because i believe that you can't live without god Like there is no life outside of God. So how can you be eternally conscious without God, right? You just, we just like cease to exist. Uh, cause only God brings life. But, uh, so I always think that's interesting. And like, when you then have like, it's like, if, if annihilation theory was real, right. Uh, cause none of us will know for for sure what hell or anything is like till we are dead.
01:01:46
Speaker
uh it's like in the end Riley would get what he wants right and from his perspective he would get that quote unquote piece of just not existing right like and he probably feels like he doesn't deserve to go to heaven either no I don't think he wants to go to heaven which is actually very you know uh great divorce right yeah like uh which once again is also not an eternal torment hell it's just more like people are like I don't deserve to be in heaven so I'm just going to be in this miserable place Like I don't want to be there. Like if God's not appealing to you, why would heaven be appealing to you? right Like you're not going to have a good time. Right. Like so, but up there in a gigantic worship service for all of eternity. Sounds like a bad time, right? Like to people who let but that's not interesting to them. Right. Like, and then Riley does get like instantaneously vaporized like by like actual definition of the word annihilated. I have so many questions about the souls of vampires.
01:02:41
Speaker
I didn't think they had souls. Exactly. So if you become a vampire, what happens? Well, I don't know. What happens to these people? Then we start getting into things like, OK, what's the difference? Because you have a body, you have a soul, and a spirit. And the soul is what makes you you. The spirit is what wants to be with God. I don't know. But you have a bodily resurrection. Yes. And that's an important part of Christianity. And people who deny the body are actually Gnostics, which is a real heresy.
01:03:10
Speaker
but Yes. All right. Paul had opinions too. so Paul had a lot of opinions on Gnosticism and heresy. That's a different podcast where we talk about Mandy's fascination with early church heresies. ah Anyway, Riley does say at the end of this that he hopes Aaron is right, which I don't think is untrue. like His is very bleak, yeah right? Like, like oh oh, yeah, she just it doesn't exist anymore.
01:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. And it wouldn't be peace for her. Like it's a piece for Riley to not exist anymore, but for a baby that's never done anything wrong. That's never experienced life. That's never experienced hardship. It would not, it would just, it's it's nothing like going from not having any of those experiences to nothing is not warm, fuzzy feeling like it does not bring comfort to the people who are mourning her. No.
01:04:07
Speaker
And then, uh, we skip forward to the priest eating Joe. Yeah. A very ah dramatic scene. it's like And I know, I know what you were thinking the whole time. I says, why couldn't it have been best? I was like, why? Like it's literally like Joe walks in at the wrong time. It's like the time.
01:04:28
Speaker
when his like craving has just completely overcome him. If it had been Bev, he would have eaten Bev. So why? He didn't care who walked through that door. And I think he was doing okay until there the stumbling and the hitting the head and then blood is everywhere. Like I remember in college one time, one of my classmates was going through, like he was trying to wean off of caffeine and he'd done a really good job of it, but I guess someone spilled a Red Bull in the class. And I mean, I had never had a Red Bull before. it sounded It smelled like someone took pixie sticks, mashed it all up through it and like sprite and then like random electric current through it. That's what it smelled like to me. but like
01:05:09
Speaker
The smell filled the room and the classmate that was, he's like, man, if you had done this, like while I was trying to wean myself off of caffeine, I would have been on the floor licking that up. Like I would not have even cared. I just needed that. So I feel like it was the blood. Like when he saw it, he was just like, all right, I'm out. I can't do this anymore. It's time to eat.
01:05:32
Speaker
Well, and I feel like it's the hug too, right? Cause he's so close and he can't let go. Right. And like, I, I don't know if he would have bitten him. Like, I don't know if he could have brung, but he wasn't letting go either. Yeah. Right. Like he was like, like Joe standing in front of the, uh, the refrigerator, the refrigerator beer, except there's no sheriff there to interrupt the thoughts. Right. Like, um, yeah, he ate Joe.
01:06:01
Speaker
Also, Joe brings up the rumor that the old man wasn't exactly celibate. Yeah, so people knew. I also feel like that's the kind of rumor people probably always have. And it's a small, it's also a small... Yeah, how do you sneak around on that island?
01:06:17
Speaker
like yeah i mean Everybody knows what goes on in the uppers though, but they pretend that they don't. so like I want to ask about confessions. Was that what it is? That's true. Was she going to confession? Quotation marks. I'm going to go to confession but and now I'm pregnant.
01:06:33
Speaker
a
01:06:37
Speaker
ah right so That opens up a hole too. Show is dead. i This time, Riley has his dream and Erin's in it. I had a question about, because he always sees Tara Beth before he falls asleep. So was she there that night? Or was that a night that he didn't see her? Like, I don't know. Because usually every time Riley falls asleep, we see it and we see him. It's like, there's Tara Beth. Now I can sleep. I know she's going to be there.
01:07:09
Speaker
But like they fell asleep and that was just a random question. I don't care about there. I don't know. That's a good question. But yeah, now he had his dream and Aaron was there. And then he wakes up and Aaron is there. She asked him to come back that night. I wrote in my notes. Spoiler. He's not going to. ah but drop ah But he says he will. Well, his plan was he would. I also like how his family like kind of gives him a hard time about staying over at Aaron's, but kind of not. It's like wink, wink, nudge, nudge, hard time. He's also like an adult, so. He's an adult, and they're like, where were you last night? Well, and I think they want him to end up with Aaron. Yes. Like, I think Annie wants him to end up with him. But there was no hanky-panky. No. So, like, she literally just lost a baby. Yeah, but they don't know. Well. But he tells her. Like, it's very clear that Annie knows at some point, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, it feels like. Is Riley the town gossip? Does he tell everyone he talks to?
01:08:07
Speaker
I don't know. he's amazing I mean, I'm assuming he probably told his mom like, I'm going to go hang out with Aaron. Like she seems pretty upset about something or I don't know, something along those lines. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure he asked Aaron if he could tell people, but he also tells Pruitt and Pruitt didn't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's still fresh, but like I know when I lived with my parents, even as a grown adult, um,
01:08:33
Speaker
that I would still tell my parents when I was going somewhere. So like, I'm sure. Well, it's a small island. Where are you going? Well, yeah, but you know, I mean, I don't know. I guess I don't know. I, I felt like when I lived with my parents, they had a right to know where I was going so that they can, but they wouldn't worry. But maybe Riley feels that way too. I don't know.
01:08:57
Speaker
I just feel like there's a line between telling your parents where you're going and then telling them Aaron lost the baby, unless Aaron gave permission, which he probably did. Probably. I would assume so. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But there's church that morning, so that's where they're all going, including Ollie. Oh, yeah. Attention. Ollie's like, I'm not going to take communion. And the sheriff is like, you aren't allowed to anyway. Yeah, because you're not a Christian. A Christian.
01:09:28
Speaker
I'm saying this because I think this is a British thing. i am not making like i just It just hit me. I was like, I hope I'm not making fun of an accent. or he oh I think he's British in real life. oh He is British, and I'm pretty sure I saw him or someone else who is British. who like The way they said Christian was Christian, and it was because they were being British. and I was like, oh, okay, so this is a British thing. Maybe. so I don't know.
01:09:54
Speaker
I'm not being xenophobic. It also has a lot of weird accents. yeah like i it's ah It's an interesting place because near a small island and even in the city of London, there's like 12 different
Cultural Commentary and Parental Concerns
01:10:06
Speaker
accents. right right but is i mean New York City was that way too, I guess. I guess my point is that I am not trying to be xenophobic. I believe this is because he's British. It's always okay to be xenophobic against British people. no yeah We will add it we add that disclaimer. i am we we are just ah If I am, it is out of ignorance and I apologize. But I think it's because he's British. yeah i just like Why didn't the director tell him not to say it that way? I don't know. like I don't know. but Because i I've known a lot of Muslims and none of them said Christian, so like but they were all American.
01:10:44
Speaker
yeah i don't know So I don't know. I really don't know where this comes from, unless it's like a weird New York City thing he's trying to go for. maybe But I have not heard that from New York City people either. I don't know. We don't know. i mean Someone asked the actor. But I don't know. The scene, though, just re-emphasizes my question of why he moved his family to a community with no spiritual support for his son. Like, I get that he was trying to get away from xenophobes, but I Like wouldn't you want to go somewhere with a good foundation as you raise your son, like a good foundation in your beliefs are small towns with mosques. This is not one of them. Right. And I know this is what, like, I feel like you have to, you have to expect that if you go somewhere with a different culture, that that culture is going to be fighting for your children.
01:11:44
Speaker
and like And this is what bothers me when people are saying, oh, well, like you should send your kids to public schools or you should send your kids to this area because they will be a good influence on the other students or the other kids or whatever. And I was like, no, that that is not what happens. I went to public school.
01:12:03
Speaker
No. This isn't a slight against public school or anything. this is like if peoples like I hear parents worried about things that are happening out in public, worried about things that our culture is trying to push onto their children. and so like they and They are thinking, um no I need to protect my kids. and To some extent, that is true. I feel like you should you should definitely make sure they have a good foundation before sending them out to do that. But clearly, sure, if a son is like, oh, this will be fine. I'm going to move my son to a very like strict Catholic community.
01:12:43
Speaker
And it'll be fine. He'll keep his faith. No one's going to try and convert him. Sometimes are part of a minority religion. You need to think about that. Yes. Right? like And about what the majority religion in that area is and what your you know want your kid to learn, right? like you You have to think about these things. There is a family at my church that's Christian from Pakistan, and they sent their kids in Pakistan to a Christian school, right? and when they were living in pakistan now they live in america no like yeah you know like if you're in america and you're jewish or muslim or hindu or whatever you need to think about that if this is important to you that your child retain this before you move to a small southern baptist town or a island of only catholics right like these catholics are like atheists those are like your two things i don't know
01:13:40
Speaker
I'm not saying like anything against like public school, but I'm saying if if you want your kids to be that light or to be that, you have to make sure they have a good foundation in that first. Or you have to make sure they're Mandy because, well you know. But you had other things, you went to church, you had other things that you were involved in that helped solidify that for you. I'm also very stubborn. Yes, but simply throwing your kids into a situation where it's like they they will be,
01:14:07
Speaker
It'll be fine. They'll be like they can change it like you expect this Like 12 year old or whatever. He's not 12, but I'll just throw a random like 10 year old or whatever to change an entire culture because they stood sperm on there like they're Still kind of squishy foundation like no no no no same thing goes for Sheriff Hassan and Ali and He is not, he has absolutely no spiritual support on this island. Yes.
01:14:38
Speaker
yeah They have to go to the mainland to go to mosque. like All of this is a bad... He doesn't have any sort of Muslim friends at school to help keep him accountable. like There's not even non-Catholics. There is no religious diversity at all. Right. which So if this was an important aspect that Sheriff Hassan wanted Ali to maintain and to be important in his life, he should have moved to a place that would reiterate that and would help bolster that for him.
01:15:07
Speaker
But this is my, this is my rant. hundred percent Also, a fun fact, when I was in second grade, my best friend was Mormon. And we spent a lot of time arguing about that. Because once again, Mandy. And this is what I do. Also, my public high school had a lot of Muslims. So it is possible to move your kid to a place that is not New York City.
01:15:28
Speaker
that has people of your faith, like. It has a community. That has a community where your kid doesn't feel isolated and like a crazy person and alone. And you have to think about these things anytime you are outside of the social norm of the culture you live in, whatever that may be, right? Like if you are, if your kid is gay and you are, you know,
01:15:54
Speaker
is Supporting them in that and you move to a small town where no one in that high school is out and you put him in that high school What do you think is gonna happen? He's gonna be miserable. He's gonna be miserable and he's gonna be made fun of and you're thinking Oh, he's gonna be the light now. They're gonna know about exactly. It's not he's just gonna be Miserable and that is a situation. He's put Ali in right? like moved into ten Ali is the only not white person in he's the only person not eat like He's the only person practicing a faith that's not Catholicism. he wants And he desperately wants to fit in. He is trying everything to fit in. And I don't know, it seems like a very selfish thing to me. It does. it's like put it you You can't put your Christian kid into a Muslim private school and expect and expect them to survive that, right? like kids
01:16:46
Speaker
Most of them, not all of them, obviously I exist, are very malleable, right? Some of us are, as I like to say, saved by sheer stubbornness alone. I know Paul has this thing about grace, but, you know. It's like, oh, but stubbornness, I mean, stubbornness is an important quality. Yes. I mean, I'm pretty sure that's why I'm an engineer, so. So the service is not starting up on time. The priest is not showing up. And once again, we have a scenario where I wish someone one else had walked through the door, which is if any other person, like if they had sent Warren to check in on the priest, which probably would have made more sense since Warren's a guy. And a Bev just feels like she can barge in on this adult man's house. him Yes. It's like, what if he was like, naked on the floor passed out, right? And you said Bev in there. Because to be fair, he was quote unquote, sick recently before, right? Or at least, I feel like Bev should have at least taken Warren with her. Because like, what if he was passed out? Do you think Bev can
01:17:48
Speaker
pick up Pruitt? I don't think so. No. Like, he is a tall man. Like, he probably weighs a lot. I know he's skinny, but when you're that tall... Well, he probably has a lot of muscle too, so like... He's in shape. If he was passed out on the floor, there's nothing she could have done about it. But she walks in there by herself, and this is when we all discover that Bev knows how to dispose of the body. I know. I know. The details that she gives on how to dispose of it, I just... Like, you've thought about this a lot. Why have you thought about this a lot? Like, I'm going to throw it out there. Have you done it before? I write a lot of stories, right? You know, body disposal happens in these stories. I am not sure I could think of any body disposal thing if I came across a dead body. I'd be like, no. Doesn't that Taylor Swift song mention chemicals? Like, that's as close as I could probably get. Like, what chemicals? What chemicals? Well, I love that Father Pruitt's just like leaning up against the wall like, so this happens.
01:18:45
Speaker
She's like, okay, you're going to get a carpet. We're going to roll the body up in a carpet. We're going to tie it up. We're going to take it out to the boat. You're going to tie some weights to them. You're going to drop it out in the sea. And I'm just like, you have this prepared woman. Has she murdered someone? That was very detailed. Has anyone thought about what happened to Bev's parents?
01:19:06
Speaker
Did they actually bury them? like I don't know. I don't know. Um, but, uh, either best way too into true crime. I doubt it. I don't know. She's clearly, she has done that. There are a lot of true crime girlies out there in this world. Maybe Bev is one of them. I don't know. Maybe this is, maybe she imagined murdering. Oh yeah. I have this written down.
01:19:31
Speaker
Uh, maybe she imagined murdering Joe lots of times in her head and has lots of time to ruin it on how she would get rid of body. And now I was like, great, he's gone. Now we can go to plan, like step two of my plan to get rid of him. So
01:19:47
Speaker
I'm just, you know, I'm definitely that person who for a story has had to Google, like, how do you kill someone, you know, but like needle mode, you're like, please FBI or whoever is monitoring my computer, I am not killing anybody. But I'm just gonna say I write a lot of agents of shield type fanfic people die. So it happens. But yeah, I also like, I kind of it reminded me of Because there's a, I think it's in 1st John, it's probably that probably, yeah, I think I have here 1st John 3 15, and then um so something in Matthew five, where it's like everyone who hates a brother is a murderer, and kind of like the whole along the lines of if you lust for a woman, you've committed adultery with her in your heart, saying that if you hate someone, you've murdered them in your heart type of thing. And so I feel like she, she hates Joe, she has hated Joe for so long, that she has probably murdered him, like,
01:20:41
Speaker
whether or not she's actually thought about murdering him. But like just the fact that she's hated him is essentially her basically murdering him over and over and over again in her head. So the fact that she actually sees him dead, like this does not faze her at all. Like, oh, OK. And the crazy thing is she has no reason to hate him other than she thinks he's trash. Yes. Meanwhile, the mayor, who has a legitimate reason to hate him, is like, uh. She's dead. And she's like, yeah, I don't care.
01:21:09
Speaker
And she's like, this is the guy who shot your daughter. And he's like, don't we need to call the sheriff? I just, I don't know. I think I had written down like, they come in and they're shocked, which is exactly legitimate what you're supposed to do. When you find like,
01:21:25
Speaker
when you find another citizen lying dead in the house. Like regardless of whether they're murdered or not. Yes. Right? Like there's blood everywhere. But I mean, if you walked in, let's imagine you walk into an office at work and someone was in there dead. Like regardless if they were murdered or not, you would be shocked. And you'd probably be calling someone and be like, we need to check on this person. Does anyone know how to check a pulse? Like, you know? Yes. And Bev, she walks in. She doesn't even check on Joe.
01:21:53
Speaker
like she just like steps around him like careful to jack get her white not to contaminate herself and you're just like and I love how when when the mayor is questioning her she just goes in this whole tirade I mean it goes into how she just talks like when she's being questioned or or she just talks the person into And it's not just trying to convince them. She just keeps talking, firing things like, this, if you don't do this, it says in, what was that, Exodus or? i Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy, where it's like, if you question what he did, like she doesn it to death like this she doesn't drop the verse, so I wasn't able to verify it. She's just like, as it says in Deuteronomy.
01:22:39
Speaker
So it says, I have it written down, June, Ronnie 1712, now the man who acts presumptuously and will not heed the priest who stands to the minister there before the Lord your God or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall put away the evil from Israel. Also the priest did not tell them to dispose of this body.
01:22:54
Speaker
Right, right. that you Yes, yes. So it was basic. This was basically to make sure that the judges authorities were not ah like the priest as a judge, that his authority was not undermined. If he made a decision and you didn't like it, and you were throwing a fit about it, you're the penalty. And that's when you're living in a theocracy. Yes. Like, which this is not no. But yeah, I mean, she just Her knowledge of Bible verses, her memory for that, just amazes me. Because I know I can't do that. I can't pull Bible verses out of my head. I had to go Google that and be like, okay, what is this thing? But I know people like this. And not Bev specifically. Who can pull Bible verses out completely.
01:23:42
Speaker
Like the Bible you know verse like champions of childhood like I knew the adult versions of them as a kid and I was just always like how do they like? Remember all of this like cuz I can remember Bible verses, but I can never remember them word-for-word, you know Like I was like, oh, yeah, there's that verse. It's like John 14 about light and dark something something like yeah good Google's great, guys. just yeah start Start typing the verse, and it'll show up. like with him'm like It was somewhere after Moses. It's somewhere in there, you guys. i promise I know it's in the first five books, and it's not Genesis. so I have a great mind for stories. like I can remember like what happened in the Bible, but I cannot tell you where.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah, and that's fair. And I think the reason why Bev is so good at it is because her passion in life is controlling people. she And she found, yeah, it's a weapon. She has an arsenal of Bible verses just waiting. That is her motivation in memorizing all these things, because she knows if she throws a Bible verse out saying, this is what the Bible says about this, people are going to be like, Oh, well, if God says that, then yeah, I'll do it. Well, and it's intimidating, because when you're arguing with a person like this, because I have been in this situation, right? And they're like, well, where does it say that in the Bible? And you're like, she like mic drops. Like, you know, they're like, my Bible verses, blah, bla blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They're like, they're like proof texting, like all these things, right? And they have them. And you're like, well, I know it says this in the Bible. Give me a moment like to find it. And they're like, oh, you didn't know. You don't know? So you lose. Oh, OK. And you're just like, this is not how this works. This is not how any of this works.
01:25:19
Speaker
have hate but I ah hate her with the fire of a thousand sons. Yes So we already talked about Erin and the mainland doctor So we'll skip over that and go to Riley and the AA meeting and can I just say that when he approaches the way Pruitt is standing on the porch. I literally have in my notes, Creeper Father Pruitt leering over at Riley at the beginning of the session. I literally put leering too. And I'm like, because he's all standing there on the porch, like posing.
01:25:51
Speaker
And I'm like, what are you doing? And I feel like leer is the appropriate word because I feel like in fiction, when people use leer, they use it almost like sexually. Like he leered at you, yes you know? But like he is hungry, right? It's not sexual. It's like, but it's a lust. But it's satisfying. Yeah. It's a lust. And so it's like he sees Riley and he has to, for he has to, comes back to the father proof. It's actually remarkable self-control, right? For that moment, he's a monster. And then he has to like pull himself together.
01:26:21
Speaker
And then this is when Riley finds out that Pruitt is lying to him. And how good of a liar Pruitt is. Yes. Because if Joe had not said to Riley that his sister had died, he'd have no idea. Yeah. And like...
01:26:36
Speaker
It would have been a legitimate, I mean, Pruitt probably didn't even know, obviously he wouldn't have known because I think she died probably while he was on the Holy Land. Or while he was out of his mind. Yes. So for all he knows, his sister is alive. and And so it's fine. But like, it was like the night before, wasn't it? That's Joe. They were walking home for May. Two nights before, because the night before Joe was killed. But they were walking home for May. It was the last meeting. Yes. And he said his sister died.
01:27:04
Speaker
And yeah, and you can see the realization on Riley's face. And I think the thing that does it is not when he first says it because Pruitt, the or father Paul at the moment, when he first says it, he's like visiting a sister, I think, you know, and then Riley picks at that because it's possible.
01:27:22
Speaker
that he heard something wrong. Yes. Right? And be like, his sister? And he's like, yeah, his sister. He reaffirms. Then he adds more facts to it to make it sound more legitimate. Because he could have been like, I think so, but maybe not. Yeah. Could have been his response. But then he doubled down on it. But he doubled down. And that's when Riley was like, And I love it. It's not like instant. You can see he takes him a second to process it and say, wait, did you just say what I thought you said? And he said, yeah, yeah, she's on he's on the mainland or something. That's where she is. And he's like, cool.
Riley's Distrust and Shocking Death
01:28:01
Speaker
OK, I can't trust you anymore. Right. And he he tells his mom later, like you can't trust him. He's a liar. He lied to me tonight. Yes. And she's like, what?
01:28:12
Speaker
I do love her Swiss family Robinson story though. I do too. I wrote that down. I was like she that she told him we're not shipwrecked. We're meant to be here. And then but then she goes on she's like so okay so you have this whole situation. Father Pruitt's lying down blah blah blah blah blah blah right. He goes back home, they all know he's going to go back to Aaron. He's like going to get some stuff before he goes. And he's always talking to his mom. And she just, she is such, she is a believer, right? She knows what's happening. She sees what's happening. She's like, there was a miracle. Lisa was healed. She doesn't need her glasses anymore. Dad doesn't, his back's not hurting him anymore, right? It's not like these people are not clueless. right They know something is happening. And she's like, God's not asking you
01:28:58
Speaker
What did she say? God isn't asking you to have faith in something you can't see. Not here, not now. He's only asking that you look. And that's when Riley's like, he's a liar. Not God. Yeah, yeah not God. Father Pruitt. Father Pruitt. Like the person that you guys all think brought this thing to you. He's manipulating you.
01:29:18
Speaker
Like he doesn't say it like that. Yeah. Right. but But he's insinuating that. Yes. And I wonder how much of this conversation, like to me, I think there's a lot of reasons why in the end, Annie and dad, uh, don't give in to the temptation. Like I think there's a lot of reasons, right? First off, drinking rat poison is insane. Yes. But secondly, I think the fact that the last thing Riley ever says to his mother is don't trust father Pruitt yeah and then he's gone. and So he just questioned the authority on this island and then he's disappeared. and What would you think? Right? Like, you know, you start thinking, obviously she doesn't want to think about it. We see that later, yeah like right? Like, you know, but like,
01:30:08
Speaker
It's very sketchy. But i' I thought I thought her talking about the purpose and he doesn't think he has a purpose on there. because This is coming in the next episode. Which is my favorite episode. I love and episode five. Yes, we're going to get there. and I ball so much ugly crying.
01:30:30
Speaker
at the end. I cry. It's so beautiful though in this episode every time and then I cry in the next episode every time and then I think I cry at the end every time. Yes. I wrote in all caps in my notes, go to Aaron's house Riley. yes Do not talk to Bonner Paul. i When he stops by the front door I'm like throw in.
01:30:49
Speaker
Go in! Just go in! And then, like, I don't know why he went. Like, was it to confront him? I think it's he couldn't let, so it's only been like an hour or something. Yeah. I think he couldn't let it lie. He had to be like, you lied to me. Like, Riley, I think this is all part of, like, the AA thing, right? Like, holding people accountable. Holding people accountable. And Father Pruitt's supposed to be the person holding him accountable. Like, they're supposed to be, like, partners, right? For, I mean, not that Father Pruitt is an alcoholic. He kind of is now. But, you know, uh,
01:31:18
Speaker
He has his own temptation. It's like, you lied to me. How can I trust you if you lied to me? So he's going to go confront him and be like, because it could be an innocent lie. Yeah. It could be like, no, I didn't want to tell you that Joe, I died horribly or he relapsed and or had a heart attack or, you know, I didn't think you were in the place for that. And I'm sorry, that was paternalistic and stupid, but whatever. Yeah. Right. Like, but no, he's covering up murder. So yeah.
01:31:48
Speaker
ah So he doesn't go through Aaron's house. He goes to see Father Paul and once again the wrong person walks through the door. Where are you Bev? Yeah, she's there all the time, except when we need her to be there. I have to say, the first time I watched this episode, this was the most shocking ending. Oh, I know, right? I was just like, what? but He's the main character. Is he dead? like I was like, what just happened? And then the crazy thing about this show is they kill Riley off twice. Yes. Two episodes end with Riley dying. And you thought he was the main character. Yep.
01:32:28
Speaker
And the other thing is just how like nonchalant, like nonchalant's not the right word. He wasn't nonchalant. It's like Father Paul's there praying, right? He has this temptation. The angels in there filling the thing. Angel. The door is open, like an idiot. Yeah, why is the door... Father Riley... Maybe he thinks the vampire doesn't know how to open the door. Maybe it's an invitation. I don't know. But Riley walks in and Father Paul says like, oh no.
01:32:58
Speaker
Right? Like, and it's not even like you need to get out. He's just like, Oh, no. Yeah, he's he's just like, Oh, no. And then the vampire attacks. And then he nonchalantly gets up and closes the door. Now you close the door. Yes. Just like, Oh, nobody can see nobody should see what's happening. I'll close the doors. You couldn't have closed the door. Five seconds ago.
01:33:23
Speaker
before Riley showed up, like as soon as the angel, quote JJ Marks, as soon as he showed up, he should I don't, obviously, I mean, he's obviously in the throes of his deep hunger and he can't think about anything, but he was just like, you're an idiot. You're even bad at this vampire thing. I don't know what to tell you. um Now Riley's dead for the first time. For the first time, yes. On a side note, I really want to know why the vampire wears clothes.
01:33:52
Speaker
Like, did they have a discussion? I feel like they had a discussion. Could you imagine sitting the vampire down? I know. that You are a civilized person. You cannot walk around this island not wearing clothes. like I know in heaven we don't have to wear clothes. Maybe. I don't know. Question mark. But here on Earth, you know the whole Garden of Eden story? You need to wear clothes. yeah Because people are naked and ashamed here. So ah your nakedness will freak us all out.
01:34:19
Speaker
Yes. So I don't just find that funny, because he's wearing clothes in that scene. And then later on, he wears the possible. And I'm thinking, what? I want to, I want to see these conversations. I want to know how this goes down. Can you wear this possible? Did he tell him he had to wear the possible? Did he was the vampire like, stooping around and like, Oh, this looks cool. I want to be pretty give this ares on a cue. Yes. So they clearly had a conversation. Yes. Well, like you never hear it talk or anything. So I don't Maybe he just listens through it. I take that back. You hear him repeat that other person's voice, Cole's voice. Once again, never enter a building that your voice came from. Yes. I don't know. I just, I find that hilarious that the vampires were includes. And I want to know, I want to see these conversations. They sound incredible. Could you imagine you think this thing is an angel?
01:35:11
Speaker
You're telling it what to do? And what clothes to wear? There's some sort of cognitive dissonance happening in his mind. Did they rehearse? Did they rehearse the church thing? You go in there, and I'm going to say this. And then you're going to walk in. And then this guy's going to say a drum, and you're going to come in. Was he standing outside the doors? I know. Where did he come from? Was he up in the ceiling, and he came down? Because this is a very small church.
01:35:38
Speaker
Tiny atrium like tiny like there might be two sets of doors there But only big enough to like I don't know be like a closet where you can hang your jacket not like yeah And I don't think he would fit in there. He because he's pretty tall. So I have a lot of questions Yeah, yeah, I don't trust angels that look like demons It looks like a demon probably is a demon. Yeah Especially such a textbook one like I don't And don't trust things that drink blood. Looking at you, mosquitoes. Untrustworthy.
01:36:14
Speaker
All right, so we've been talking for a long time. I so i know normally you try and keep this to an hour. We have two hours of quality conversation. I mean, 15 minutes of this at the beginning may not have been real. I don't know. But this ah I hope everyone enjoyed this very long dissection of episode four, Lamentations. And you know it's just going to get longer from here because they get more meaty from here. Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine what next up is going to be like.
01:36:41
Speaker
We're gonna spend an hour like we're gonna have an hour episode and we're gonna talk about it. The next one's so heavy because you have you have all the stuff that happens to Riley. Yeah. And then one after that you can have heresy and then yeah. And then it just keeps going. Yeah yep yep. From here on out like I'm just saying if by this point you don't enjoy this show just stop watching. I don't mean this podcast I mean Midnight Mask. Please keep listening to the podcast.
01:37:08
Speaker
but If you've reached episode four and you're like, this show's not for me. It's not going to get better. It's not getting better. like i was I was trying to explain Midnight Mass to my older sister last night, and I was like, it's a horror show, but it's not scary. like i don't You need to watch it. There's jump scares. That's true. One of them I didn't even see on my computer. so you know Yeah, I had to take a screenshot and show you. We talked about that last time, because it happened last time. But ah yeah, there's a couple of jump scares, but not not a lot and not as much as it could have. Not nearly as many as Haunting of Hill House.
01:37:40
Speaker
or a Midnight Club. That one has the most, isn't it? Midnight Club has a ton of jump scares. It has like that one episode that's like just all jump scares. Yes. And then they make a comment on, you can't just have jump scares and call this horror or whatever. We will forever be sad that there was no season two of Midnight Club. Midnight Club. Midnight Club. Sorry. I agree. Especially when Flanagan released like how everything was going to conclude. This is a crime. This is a travesty that we didn't get to see that.
01:38:08
Speaker
yeah but this is why he's gone away from netflix and now he's making stuff for amazon so what's the next thing i have no idea i don't know but followed the House of Usher with his last Netflix thing. And I think his other big argument with Netflix, so I'll be interested to see what Amazon does, is that Netflix refuses to release Midnight Mass i i dvd on DVD. The reason why Haunting of Hill House and Blind Manor got released on DVD was because it was jointly done with Paramount and Paramount has the distribution rights. But since Amazon also sells things, I wonder if that's part of this deal with Amazon.
01:38:45
Speaker
that he can distribute. Yeah. Whereas Netflix, there's no reason. Like, let's be honest, why do I still have a Netflix subscription? Midnight Mask. Yes. I'm Bridgerton. So thank you, Rachel, for joining us. Thank you for having me. And I look forward to continuing the next traumatizing episode of this show. I can't wait.
01:39:12
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed this episode and that you will join us again next month on September 15th. I'll be welcoming back Jessica Camacho to discuss the second book of The Wheel of Time series, The Great Hunt by Robert Jordan. We'll also be discussing Amazon Prime's adaptation, The Wheel of Time, both seasons one and two. Thank you for listening to Mandemonium. You can find me, Mandy, on Twitter at brown underscore aja. That's A-J-A-H.
01:39:38
Speaker
You can also find the podcast on Twitter at Mandemonium Pod, and we also have a podcast Facebook page. Theme music for this podcast was created by Skips of Beat Music. Thank you so much for listening, and we hope you come back next time.