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Midnight Mass: "Book 5: Gospel"
25 Plays3 months ago
Rachel Gleichmann joins Mandy again to continue our discussion of the Netflix horror show, Midnight Mass, this time with the fifth episode. Spoilers abound as we discuss the heresy of Father Paul's Good Friday Sermon as well as the most important AA meeting of Riley's life!
Theme music created by Skips A Beat music.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Mandemonium Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Mandemonium, a podcast where I, your host, Mandy, talk to guests about their favorite works of fiction, whether that be books, movies, TV shows, or
Discussion of Midnight Mass Episode Five
00:00:20
Speaker
more. Today, I will be continuing my discussion with Rachel Gleichmann of the Netflix horror show Midnight Mass with episode five entitled Book Five, Gospel.
00:00:34
Speaker
All right. Welcome back, Rachel. We are continuing our discussion of Midnight Mass, this time with episode five, gospel. This one's my favorite. Heresy. No, the episode's about heresy. I'm sorry. You liking it is not heresy. But you're wrong. You're wrong. It's heresy to like this episode. This is like, if you've made it this far and you don't like this episode, just stop watching the show.
00:01:00
Speaker
It's not gonna get better than this. This is the episode. ah There are tears. There's crying. On our part, not necessarily character's part. though i guess there's some um There's some crying. There's some crying in the episode. Very chaotic crying, but yes. yes and i There's just so much in this episode, but we're gonna try to keep our discussion to an hour and a half. So no more than that.
00:01:31
Speaker
So the episode opens with Riley asking Aaron to go out in the boat. She's looking for him like all morning, like where is he? And like, then he's like. getting go When you know what happens in the episode, it's like, ah.
00:01:49
Speaker
I know. Well, it's like this whole episode is kind of like a ah flashback episode, right? Yeah. But not really. Because it starts off that way and then he's going to tell her a story. Yes. And it goes back to where we left off in the previous episode. Oh, I think sorry. No, I skipped forward. I'm done. We did not. It does not start with the boat. I need to back up. It does start with Erin looking for Riley.
00:02:12
Speaker
I will get in my wrong notes. I apologize. Oops. All right. and I was going to say, I thought it started when they were putting the sign up. bo Backing up. But I was like, oh that's fine. She's got it written down. So it must be true. No. It really starts with Erin looking for Riley is how the episode starts. ah But there's a
Concerns Over Missing Characters
00:02:30
Speaker
bunch of stuff. So yeah, they're changing the sign to be. ah Midnight Mass. See, and this is where, like, if, I don't know, we talk about heresy a lot. To me, having a nighttime Easter service is in itself, not maybe heretical, but this automatically tells me there's something wrong. There's something sketchy happening. Yes. The Easter is not a night holiday. No. It is a morning holiday. Like, the only time you would start an Easter service in the dark is because it's a sunrise service. Exactly. So having it at midnight, it just... Easter's my favorite holiday, so I just, like,
00:03:03
Speaker
I don't even know why you would do it at midnight, right? Like, yeah, he can't be out till dark, but like. He could probably still have because a like early morning sunrise and he just doesn't go outside. Right. Or like good Friday is often an evening service, right? Just because you're waiting for people to get off work. Like that's not crazy. So you could be like, we're going to do the service at like eight whenever it gets dark, right? Not midnight. That's.
00:03:31
Speaker
And then is it even Friday if it's midnight? Like what? Well, like in the Easter one is Saturday at midnight. So right like 24 hours between these two services. Yes. It doesn't make sense. And he's busy during those 24 hours, which we, we find out. Also did they day ah they did they not do a Monday, Thursday service? I don't understand. Like what is going on here? Aren't they Catholic? Well, I thought, well, they didn't say mass was canceled or I don't know. Oh, that's right. Cause he was sick that one. So one of the days mass was canceled.
00:03:59
Speaker
So Erin's out, oh, they're changing the sign. And is that when Millie first appears to everybody? When they're changing the sign, like when is service gonna happen? I think so. Yeah, and she's a lot younger. aye And she had, earlier she came down the stairs in her own house dressed in like normal clothes and Sarah's like, what is going on?
00:04:24
Speaker
Why is my mom so young? Yeah, because the mayor's wife is all excited to see her and just like, we live in amazing times. Oh, I took note of that because I was just like, she is all in. Yeah. Right. Like she's like crying and Liza's like, yeah, Liza's like, I don't. Hmm. What's happening, mom? Why? Why? Why are you?
00:04:50
Speaker
acting hormonal right now. Like, this woman is ready to drink rat poison. That's all I'm saying. Like, she is ready. She was ripe for the picking. Meanwhile, many people are missing on this island. Right? Yes. So Aaron's looking for Riley. Bull's mother shows up looking for him. But I find that like, he's been gone for a while.
00:05:14
Speaker
So, well, I feel like she probably went to mainland police first. Oh, I feel like that's the implication she gave was she talked to the mainland police and they're like, well, he's not a drug dealer. Yeah. So now she's trying to get the island to look for him. Yeah. Cause I found that weird. Where's like Riley is gone.
00:05:32
Speaker
And it's probably what, 12 hours? And Aaron's like, okay, no, we need to go to the police. Something's wrong. Well, I feel like this is the difference between somebody going missing in a very small community versus someone going missing like in a city. Yeah. Right. Because in real cops are going to be like, we'll have to be missing for 48 hours. Yeah. Which is hilarious, by the way, because if you don't have a trail within 48 hours, you're never finding them. Right. Like that's what they say. The first 48. The first 48 are the most important. So it's like, unless you witnessed your child be kidnapped,
00:06:02
Speaker
I think the rules are actually different if you're talking about a five-year-old versus like a 25-year-old and Bowles clearly like 25. So the assumption is either he got in trouble with some other drug dealers, so why would mainland cops care? Cause they're like, it's scum dealing with scum. Cause that's, you know, yeah very, that's a very like city mentality, I feel like. Or it's like, he went on a bender somewhere, which is what a lot of people think Riley did, right? Or he just ran away from home. Like he's a full grown adult. Why is he still living at home? yeah even though mom makes it very clear that he's looking like he's taking care of his sisters right he sells drug to provide them food yeah um so i actually really love bull's mom and how like she just doesn't tolerate any of the sheriffs like
00:06:51
Speaker
patron yeah she's like it's not very Christian of you and he's like well I'm not a Christian and she's like you know what I mean and it's like you don't let that get right girl you take him down like I she just won't put up with it um and I and I love her line when something like this happens we're all supposed to be the same and I'm like Yeah, that's what you like to think, right? That when a tragedy happens, it doesn't matter what class or level of society you are. You're all supposed to like band together and be the same, but... Because when it comes down to it, we're all human. Right. And we all, you know, know what it's like to have siblings or parents or, you know, have family. Right. So unfortunately, the reality is Bull's situation, which is nobody cares that he's missing because they think he's scum.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah. Which is the same kind of with Joe, because Joe's missing at this point, too. And nobody cares. And nobody cares. Like, I feel like this is like ah the first time... I mean, obviously, Joe hasn't been missing that long. It's been, like, what, a day? Yeah. And, you know, she's like, have you talked to Joe? And the sheriff's like... I feel like this is the first time where he's thinking, like, have I seen Joe? I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I haven't.
00:08:14
Speaker
It's like, usually I see him like and every day as he comes in to get drunk. You're right. Kind of suspicious. Erin's still looking. She's, she's going everywhere looking for Riley.
Erin's Concerns and the Sheriff's Observations
00:08:29
Speaker
Right. Um, and eventually she also comes to the sheriff. So the places she checks are with Riley's mom. Who's like, Oh, we thought he was with you. Right. Uh, Warren.
00:08:41
Speaker
Uh, and I love, so when Warren goes back to the boat and talks to his dad, I love the dad's reaction. Just like how pissed he is. Yeah. Cause he, he's like, Riley's just like, excuse my language, pissing away his life. Right. Like it's gotta to be funny to be Warren, right? Because like, if he was out sneaking away, sleeping away with a girl every night.
00:09:02
Speaker
the parents would be like, how dare you? you know But when it's like your 30-year-old brother, they're like, good for him. His mom's like super pleased when when they realize where he is or where they think when they think they know where he is. Oh, yeah, that's great. Big smile, like trying not to show how overjoyed she is at the thought of Riley ending up with Aaron. like Well, from her perspective, it would tie him closer to the island. Which is probably a better influence on him. Yes. Which is funny because she was the bad influence, I feel like, when they were growing up, yeah right? But I feel like the dad's both thinking, A, he's blowing up his relationship, but B, I feel like the dad really thinks that Riley's on a bender somewhere, which is
00:09:50
Speaker
ah Fair, right? not Not that Riley has shown us that in the show, but as Riley is well aware, he is an alcoholic. And all it takes is one little shove sometimes. And then you're just like, Joe Cauley, right? like And Riley is always like one hair away from being Joe. yeah The sheriff is reporting Joe missing when Erin shows up about Riley. i mean The sheriff's like, I have three people missing.
00:10:19
Speaker
Like what is going on? I just wanted a quiet little little beat. And it is highly suspicious that like everyone involved with AA is missing in now. Yeah. You think the sheriff ever thought maybe I should talk to that priest guy? Maybe maybe he knows where they are. Hmm. Hmm. I actually don't know how much the sheriff is tracking if AA that AA is happening though. So to be fair. Probably not. Yeah. But Erin brings it up because she's like,
00:10:50
Speaker
She mentions that Riley was supposed to go to AA with Joe that night and then he was going to come to her. And the sheriff was like, was Joe there? And she's like, I don't know. I don't know. And the answer is no, he was not there because he was already dead. He was eating. He was eating. And then I love this where the sheriff is like, what did you talk about the night before?
00:11:13
Speaker
And like you can see Erin just like, oh, this is not a good conversation. And I feel like the sheriff, when she hesitates, the sheriff is probably thinking like, oh, she's going to say like sex or something, right? And then she's like, death. He's like, OK, that's not what I was expecting. He's literally like, this is what I'm talking about. I need to know these things. I found it interesting, though, when she was talking, when she explained why death came up, because she she hast She says, i love I miscarried. And I think it just shows, she she does not believe that she miscarried, but I don't, she's already got so much going on with Riley being gone and having to process what happened that I don't think she wants to have this conversation with Sheryl. By the way, my baby just randomly disappeared and I've gone to doctor after doctor and I can't find it. And they're acting like I've never been pregnant. And, um, Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous, but that's what actually happened. So yeah, like and it's just it's not going to help the situation. So she just speaks the language that is going to be understood and not questioned so she can get to the bottom of where Riley is. And I really think at this point, Aaron thinks Riley killed himself. Right.
00:12:34
Speaker
Like, well, and I think with that death when I don't know, I don't know if she knew that when she came in or if when talking ah when Sheriff Hassan brings up. Well, what did you guys talk about last night? I think she realizes then. Oh, this is. I hope he didn't hurt himself. Right, because they were talking about death and he was kind of. Like he's at peace, at peace. Yes. Like death was going to be a good thing. Yes. And he's talked.
00:13:03
Speaker
eight Very much about how he likes purpose in life and how he doesn't know what he's doing each day ae I mean if there is anyone who should be on suicide watch it is Him yeah, yeah. Yeah, so ah she's worried at this point that they're gonna find a body but Which then comes back to the next episode which he has to tell people he is dead yes He's not dead yet. Wait, he is, but he's not. it's He's undead. Yeah, next is good Friday service. so I take it back. I think this is when Millie shows up the first time. I think she does show up at the sign and they see her and that's when
00:13:46
Speaker
Because I took a note. That's when the mayor's wife says we're living in a miraculous place. Oh, okay. Because I took a note with Bev and how she reacted to seeing Millie. I don't know if
Father Pruitt's Controversial Sermon
00:13:55
Speaker
Bev was at the sign. Oh, okay. I think it was Sturg changing the sign. Oh, okay. That's weird because usually Bev is the one changing the sign. But anyway, you're probably right. And I was thinking about that. Bev seems genuinely happy to see Millie. And I was thinking about how like Millie is so much older than Bev.
00:14:15
Speaker
and like probably knew Bev as a child. yeah And like I do feel like there is a certain level of much older than you where it's like that person can do no wrong in your eyes when you're a child and you're like they're a good example and you're like you know. Maybe. So Bev maybe viewed Millie very well.
00:14:37
Speaker
Because she seems genuinely happy, like... But I don't think Millie was... Oh, I don't think Millie cared about that. She just kind of goes, uh, yeah, I'm so happy I'm here. Weirdo.
00:14:50
Speaker
Just because Bev likes her doesn't mean Millie returns the feelings. And as we all know, Millie is not a perfect Catholic. No, no. Reminds me of there was an office quiver. Oh, yeah, she's my best friend. I'm not hers or whatever. I'm her best friend. She's not mine or something like that.
00:15:09
Speaker
And then Bev is especially happy that Millie brought Sarah because Sarah is like a prodigal daughter to the church at this point, right? Even though it's funny in the once again prodigal is kind of a phrase that's used a lot I feel like when we're talking about this show Sarah left the church, but it's not like she went on a bender or got into drugs. She's not Aaron, right? Yeah, she became a doctor So she's got other um reasons why she probably isn't in the church yes uh i you know i imagine being the lesbian and the catholic church on the small island uh it's a hard life it's probably not conducive to being welcomed in the church. No, no, not at all. And do you think Millie and Bev, not Millie, do you think Sarah and Bev were like in youth group at the same time? Like I feel like they probably were. Yeah, because Bev is a lot older than Riley and Erin, but I feel like Sarah and Bev were probably around the same age, you know? Then we have the sermon and I believe my note is the sermon starts out okay and then goes off the rails.
00:16:22
Speaker
Well, I just love, like, when he comes in to the prep room, I don't know, I'm sure there's an actual name for it, but I'm not Catholic, so I don't know. And he starts filling- Does he feel like it's the vegetable? But that may not be right. I don't know. But like, when he's filling up the- The crewet? Yeah. He tells the boys eyes up, ears open, like battle speech is gonna happen. And then, yes. And I do want to point out something I found interesting watching last night too with, ah and because the the camera focuses a lot on Millie and how she's reacting to this this sermon and
00:17:07
Speaker
It starts out so great. She has such this enjoyment. She's so happy to be at church. It kind of reminded me of the first time we were able to go back to church after COVID. And just, I've just felt so refreshed and so like, cause you can watch church online, but it is definitely not the same as when you're in a building with other believers. So she... No, I'm only half-fated to it online.
00:17:31
Speaker
right well that's that's true but like you she did such a good job of portraying that I'm being refreshed I am doing something I haven't done in such a long time and this is wonderful and then Pruitt says something about joining God's army, and she just kind of flinches like, what the hecka? Like, how did this sermon turn? How did we get here? Where did this, what? And then the camera goes over to Bev, and she's like, yes. right Murder everyone for God. Oh my gosh. Like, so with the sermon, right? It's like the beginning where he's talking about passion. You're like, that's fine. Like all of that.
00:18:12
Speaker
is fine. That's that standard like good Friday. um It does bother me when he talks about the word good. Okay, so I have a ah pet peeve soapbox, which is if a pastor ever gives a sermon that turns on an English translation of one word, you need to walk out of that service. ay Because once the Bible's not written in English,
00:18:41
Speaker
And two, especially if the way they're translating that word is very modern, right? When we say good Friday, that is not the modern meaning of the word good. right The word good means holy in this context. It is a holy Friday. So when he's like, what's good about that? I'm like,
00:19:00
Speaker
Like you're doing the thing I hate where you're taking a modern meaning of a word and applying it and applying and modern meaning of an English word and applying it as if it matters. And so that would be my first like.
00:19:15
Speaker
squinty eye at the pastor like if I was sitting in the sermon I'd be like okay maybe you're just dumb it's okay I can forgive a little uh dumbness uh and then you know it's fine and then it gets to the army thing and I'll say okay first off I think being a pacifist is a completely reasonable position for a Christian to have I think it is very defensible I don't think we all have to agree on this obviously Rachel and I have opinions
00:19:44
Speaker
our line of work does not fall in line with that so you know if a pastor got up there and he preached pacifism to me I'd be like I don't agree with that but I don't think that makes him like not a Christian like but I can see where you're coming from yeah I can see where you're coming from like you can use the Bible to support this so I'm with him when he's like God's not a god of nations he doesn't want you to fight for your country I'm like I don't believe this but This is a reasonable thing Christians can disagree on. Yes. Right? Like, this is completely reasonable. I'm here for it. I even love his line, the arrogance of that thought, God has no country. Like, I love that line. You know, I'm like, that is so true. Like, God loves the world, right? I think there are other reasons why we need to support our
00:20:31
Speaker
Department of Defense. i But, i you know. When it comes down to a spiritual level, he's right. God has no country. Yes. Yes. And so I'm like, I am with you, pastor. This is fine. And then he gets the God's army thing. I have so many notes on this, like with, with references of how this is not in line with scripture. I just,
00:20:59
Speaker
Like, I mean, I love a good battle hymn. You know, I'm all here for stand up for stand up for Jesus kind of hymns. But this is like, we're in God's army. The line that gets me is like, he's gonna ask us to do horrible things. Yeah, that I have a note saying, I'm sure the Spanish Inquisition told themselves that too. God will ask horrible things of you.
00:21:26
Speaker
I'm just... I'm like, Wilkie? Like, and so it's, we talked about this a little bit, right? It's how he pulls you along and twists you. Like this is such a like cult deceiver thing, right? Because I've heard with, I don't know, I've listened to a few like cult podcasts and whatnot and they're terrifying to me because They put so much like they'll take Bible verses and they will tweak like one preposition or one little thing. And it's, it completely changes the meaning of the verse.
00:22:07
Speaker
And, or at least how you can interpret that. And then you have a whole religion based off of that and, or I guess a cult based off of that. So had to see him doing this where he's just, he's, he, he throws in a bunch of truth or things that, yeah, yeah, I could agree with that. And then he might, he'll just say like, Oh no, this is what it, what it actually means. Or like, this is what the Bible actually says. And if it's in there with so much truth and in there with so much stuff, like you'll be thinking, Oh yeah, yeah.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know about that. Oh, but that's true. So maybe the other part that I didn't know about, maybe that's also true. and There's too many, like he, he would be on, uh, he seems reasonable. He wouldn't be lying to me. He wouldn't be twisting anything. He said so much truth. Now I trust him. So whatever he says, yeah, that's fine. And like the horrible things, like he, he prepped them for it with scripture, yeah right? Because he's like, God did ask Jesus to do something horrible.
00:23:06
Speaker
but not horrible. Like, like that to other people, to other people. That's the thing, right? Like God asked Jesus to die and that was horrible for Jesus. yeah Right? Like he he was the person that suffered in this. He did not ask Jesus to cause other people suffering. Exactly. He didn't ask him to go out and kill them all or eat them or whatever. It was,
00:23:32
Speaker
Hey, you're gonna do this, not fun thing, but it's gonna be okay. And God says that to us sometimes. Sometimes that's what his direction. not all like ah Not always to say, okay, you're gonna go and you're gonna suffer and you're gonna die. it Sometimes it's, I'm gonna put you in this situation and you're not gonna like it, but you're gonna grow through it.
00:23:52
Speaker
And it's all usually on you, not, um, not, you're not supposed to be the one making somebody else's life miserable and you're going to backstab this person and, uh, it'll be fine. It's all good. Yeah. No, no, I, I just, uh, it's, it's terrible. Like the horrible thing. And then, okay, let's talk about conscious and the Holy spirit because like,
00:24:22
Speaker
he he talks about how our only moral compass is our conscious right yeah and he he mentions the holy spirit once once he says like inside of each one of us pointing true north right to the holy spirit conscious and then he never mentions the holy spirit ever again it's all about what you feel like like the logic thereof um obviously it's about what you feel because god has made you feel this way and therefore that is I don't know, he basically says it relies on how we feel and we use that to direct our paths. And I'm like, there's literally a verse. There's a Proverbs 3.5, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. Like just the blatant like heresy. Heresy is the word. I think about, you know, there's this standard example that churches generally give and you know, depending on what denomination you're in,
00:25:20
Speaker
They emphasize different things more but the idea that faith is a tripod right and like the Bible is one of the pillars that holds it up like Holy Spirit is one of the pillars which is you know kind of the like your experience what the Holy Spirit tells you you know what God makes you know how sometimes how you feel about things and then the other pillar is like tradition and obviously those of us who are Protestants tradition is you know less important Catholics that's way more important I'm like
00:25:54
Speaker
The point of having all of these things is to check each other, right? It's like a check in balance so that if you're feeling some way, you know, and you're like, I'm not sure how I feel about this. You can look at the Bible and then you'll be like, well, maybe that's not super clear. So then you go to tradition, you go to your pastor, you go to, you know, other theologians and you say, what have they said about this? And you check it. You don't just go off of it because you feel that way. Like, and I,
00:26:22
Speaker
I actually feel like in all traditions right now in America like feelings are like super important and I remember I had like a discussion with a guy in college about this one time because he was like he was trying to figure out if he should go to grad school or get a job and he was like I just don't know what God is telling me to do I don't have a strong feeling either direction and I'm like well maybe God gave you a brain and wants you to use it and make a logical choice like maybe god doesn't care if you go to grad school or get a job because maybe he's gonna use you in either place you're in and he's telling you that either place is fine. That the grad school versus job decision is not a sin life or death decision. Right. But we put such emphasis on feelings and like I mean that's why we have these like over emotional like retreats and like summer camps when you're a kid and it's like
00:27:13
Speaker
We need to stop, people. We need to stop. And I'm not saying feelings aren't important, but like once again, if you're feeling led some way by the Holy Spirit. I feel like it's more than just a feeling, though. like when you when you I don't know. Maybe this is a ah problem with English because there's only like one way to say it. There's only one way. So many words.
00:27:36
Speaker
Cause I feel like the feeling of, hmm, I want, uh, I want chicken nuggets for lunch today is completely different than the, like when you are being led to something. It's, I feel like it's a, you're gonna say feel, I feel like it's a different feeling. Cause there's one around, I know I need to do this. It's like, I guess you could say I feel it, but there's something else in your brain that's like, I know I have to do this thing. I've been told to do this thing. But you're self-aware.
00:28:06
Speaker
Obviously not everyone is as self-aware. I also think with with Pruitt's situation, he's literally gotten out where he just ate someone and Murder? Yes, yes. And Bev is... Bev calmed him down and said, yes, this is fine. And it honestly, it probably came from her. And since he didn't want to come to terms with the fact that he murdered someone, he accepted it. And just the pride and the fact that, well, I am a priest or I am a Christian and I did this horrible thing.
00:28:41
Speaker
obviously that means God wanted me to do it. So, you know what? Anything that we do at this point must be what God wants us to do, otherwise you wouldn't do it. That is kind of his... His, I don't know, conclusion at this point? Or just, oh yeah, like, we direct our paths. The thing that we feel we need to do obviously has to come from God. So, because we're in line with him. Like, the it's it's it's backwards.
00:29:12
Speaker
Like, if you want to be in line with God's will, you will follow God's will. Not like, well, we did this, so therefore, it must be God's will. It was God working through us to do this this thing. God worked through me to to murder someone, or to to sit, and to lie, to commit adultery, to have an affair with a woman. Like, obviously, this is... The long-standing affair with a woman. This is obviously what God wanted. So...
00:29:40
Speaker
And not the other way of my free will enabled me to sin. And God can use the the fruits of that to make something beautiful, to push his plan along, but that does not mean that was originally part of his, like that was, he knew it was going to happen. He knew, but I don't know. And this is where we get into weird. Do we really have free will? Did he know we were going to do this? Like.
00:30:05
Speaker
I'm not a predestination person. but But I do believe that God has an optimum path for us and we have the ability to not walk the optimum path. Yes. I think he can still use us and use the consequences of our bad decision making and our sin to make something beautiful. But yes hit my point is Pruitt has it backwards in the fact that he's we we determine this And like got our sin is just God working through us. So really, we're not doing anything bad. We're not doing anything bad. We're supposed to do these horrible things in God's name. And and we're going to talk about the murder thing later because he does a he does something in the AA meeting that drives me particularly up the wall when he talks about murder with Riley. um I might have that. I have a similar note. But i though the last ah
00:31:01
Speaker
and mean There's still so many heretical things, but we need to talk about ah God's will. Oh, you mean ah his perfect changeable will? Yes, ah his perfect changeable will. Because God's will, while perfect, changes.
00:31:20
Speaker
I know. So, you know, once again, if if he was a reasonable person and he hadn't already said so many crazy things in the sermon, I might be like, what are you gonna say here, pastor? What are you going for? Because you can be, I don't believe God's will changes. No. But I believe our understanding of God changes and how, like,
00:31:43
Speaker
like we we learn more things, right? Like ah the fact that in the Old Testament, God was super chill about polygamy. I don't think that was his his ideal design, you know? I think the Adam and Eve story kind of makes that clear that he has an ideal, but he was like, this is not a battle I'm fighting right now, guys. Like, you know? ah And then, you know, with Jesus, Jesus is like,
00:32:11
Speaker
So about that marriage thing. have we like you know He's like, maybe David and Solomon having all these problems was to show you guys. This is not a good plan. This is not a good plan. So sometimes it's you know our understanding because like a child, we are growing up. you know Humanity changes. But to say that God's will changes in your Good Friday sermon,
00:32:40
Speaker
And there's so many verses about this as well. I only put down two. But in Malachi, yeah it's like a God literally says, I the Lord do not change.
Accusations of Heresy Against Father Pruitt
00:32:52
Speaker
In Hebrews 13.8, it says, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And bonus points, because the next verse commands his the followers of God not to be carried about with various and strange doctrines. So I'm just like, what?
00:33:10
Speaker
the amount of heresy in this in this sermon. i don't even I don't want to call it a sermon. It's just so wrong. The amount of heresy in the speech. Yes. We have crossed the line from sermon into speech. We have crossed the line. And I think ultimately, and I'm sure we'll talk about this more when we get to the end, right? When we talk about new teachings, because obviously as technology changes,
00:33:34
Speaker
we encounter things that the Bible was not prepared us for, right? Like the internet. If we meet aliens one day, ah you know, we'll be like, hmm, hmm, what am I supposed to do here, God? Right? And it's almost like in the Bible, they told us that you will know if a new teaching is good by the fruit it bears, right? What is the fruit that Father Paul's teaching and bears here?
00:34:04
Speaker
mass murder uh so uh it's not a good teaching you guys horrible things i guess he warned us uh i'm telling you what fruit this is gonna bear it's gonna be great it's gonna be horrible things and it's it's just like how once again how he pulls people along because he says that god's will changed when jesus came and that's not true that was always god's will was fulfillment not a change like i
00:34:36
Speaker
so much heresy and he tells and then he tells them you know once again we can go back to the conscience and the holy spirit and whatever he tells them to rely only on their conscience only which is so anti-catholic i can't even express it like so not only do i believe that this is general christian heresy this is so far down catholic heresy super progressive that's all i don't know this is so progressive you're gonna start a new protestant reformation right like uh instead of sola scriptura it's gonna be sola conscious i don't don't we call that like humanism
00:35:17
Speaker
You're right. I kind of do. Except even humanism doesn't recommend murdering the random guy. To fulfill a deep desire.
00:35:30
Speaker
hunger to eat someone I don't even think humanists support cannibalism no ah so yes um and then he brings it back to good right the Good Friday is only good ah despite the horror because of what comes of it and I'm like once again Good Friday It means holy. I have a very sarcastic thing. Say your sarcasm. I just said, you know, I'm sorry. I thought this was about Jesus' horrible experience and sacrifice for us so we could be saved, but I guess I'm just too traditional for Father Paul. You're too traditional for the Catholic priest. Apparently. You know, that's the thing about me that gets me on this. Because I'm pretty generally like, Christianity is a wide tent. There are things I don't i believe.
00:36:18
Speaker
But, you know, if you can support it with the Bible, as long as you're loving the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, and mind, and do unto others as you would have them do, and believe Jesus is God's son, and that, you know, we need to follow Him, I'll generally be like, I think you're wrong, but I'm not gonna like, take you out, right? like But this sermon,
00:36:42
Speaker
This sermon I'd be sitting there and be like, oh, you're not a Christian anymore. I feel like the lady on American Airlines is yelling at him from across the room. Not that he's not real, just, you're wrong. You're like, uh, yep, yep. Uh, uh, storming out, running down the aisle. Everybody's been like.
00:37:04
Speaker
video camera together. That man is not real. Yes.
00:37:11
Speaker
And then he tells them, welcome to God's army. They're going to do great things. And everyone in the room is like, this is great, except Millie. And storms out. And this goes like, i I made Mandy a meme earlier this week. I was like, this is Millie. Millie doesn't put up with heresy in her church. Be like Millie.
00:37:32
Speaker
ah and So that we we talked about this briefly, not on the podcast, but I'm just really like, Millie should have confronted Pruitt and I don't know why she didn't. Like she's friends with him. I mean, they're more than friends at this point. We haven't found that out yet. They are lovers.
00:37:54
Speaker
like Look, I'm just telling you, I'm a random citizen in a church and I have been known to tell a pastor that he is wrong. Oh no, Mandy's here. Mandy's here. ah So you're friends with this person. So I'm like, is it the, what what is it? Is it?
00:38:16
Speaker
Catholicism in her, because cause I will give you that I feel like, and once again, talking in generalities, Catholicism doesn't, not that a lot of Christianity does, but Catholicism definitely doesn't encourage questioning the priest as much. Right. ah But he's her friend, once again, more than friends. like And he's leading this church down a dangerous path, and she tells her child to never go back there ever again.
00:38:42
Speaker
But everybody else. Everyone else is fine. I don't know. I thought maybe it's because she's a woman. I don't know. But there are women serving in the church. Right. that Leading church things. So that's not, that can't be a problem. I i mean, she may be more traditional, right? Cause based on their ages, uh, they would have been in the church pre Vatican two, right? Like,
00:39:07
Speaker
And sometimes it's hard to overcome that stuff. Like, oh, I can't tell the priest he's priesting wrong, but they have such a longstanding relationship. And she knows something weird is going on, right? She has to know. Cause she said that's not...
00:39:23
Speaker
She's like, that's not the man I knew, which I also think is funny because no one else, ah I mean, so Bev knows, I think the mayor and his wife know, but no one else. Sarah does not know. Sarah doesn't, well, Sarah doesn't know, yeah. She doesn't know that this is Father Pruitt, but Millie does. Which is, I feel like when Millie says that to Sarah, Sarah's like, oh, she's having an Alzheimer's now. Right. Right. It's like, no, mom, that's not the man you knew. You don't know him. That's Father Paul. Yeah.
00:39:53
Speaker
but she just, I don't know. Millie's like the American Airlines lady. He is not real.
00:40:01
Speaker
Yeah. So I really wish that she had confronted him, but she does not. Maybe, maybe she is going to confront, or maybe her plan is to confront him later. And like she's angry right now and she's letting like, I don't know,
00:40:19
Speaker
going back and how do I talk to him about this because this this is not okay don't like the whole don't uh like don't go to him in anger type of thing maybe she's gonna go back look in her bible uh pull together some thoughts Some ammo. Some ammo. you like I mean at this point if I was a random citizen in that church and knowing that Catholicism has a hierarchy I'd be calling whoever his boss is. because like Go Karen on it. I would. I need to speak to the bishop or whoever's in charge of him and I'd be like hey you know this new young pastor you sent us? He said some weird things.
00:41:00
Speaker
Like, I mean, I've never told on a pastor like that before, but I've never had a pastor get up there and preach, like, legit heresy. Like, I've had pastors say things I disagreed with. Uh, I sat through one sermon on Esther where I was just like, wow, you were so wrong and I don't even know why you would preach this and I don't even know how to handle this. But it wasn't heresy, right? Like.
00:41:21
Speaker
It was just like he said Esther was power hungry. And I was like, I'm sorry, Esther was a sex slave. I don't know why we're not on the same page about this, but like, i she was human trafficked by her uncle. All right, so i now we get to Riley showing up at Aaron's house. The cello thing
Riley's Transformation and Moral Struggle
00:41:44
Speaker
like goes when she opens the door and sees him like vampire. It's the vampire noise. Cause he is a vampire.
00:41:52
Speaker
and he takes her out into a boat. hi well he' So he's like, he shows up at her door and he's like, remember when we were teens and you took me out on that boat and you didn't even want me to say anything and you just wanted us to do this? He's like, I'm asking you to do that now. And she's like super pissed at him. And she's like, well, cause like you're scared.
00:42:14
Speaker
i I know I get grumpy after I I've been scared and worried and yeah, and I guess she wants Amy You know, she says this later, right but she's like if you need help I will get it for you. Like, and I believe like she wants to help him and she knows he's in a precarious place. She's been in a similar place. I mean, not that she murdered anyone, but like ah she made it sound like she was into like drugs and stuff with her husband and obviously her husband beat her. So she like knows how hard it is to get help and she's worried that he killed himself and now he's alive. So she's probably thinking like whatever you need, like I'm here. Yeah.
00:42:52
Speaker
And she's certainly not thinking he's taking her out into the middle of the ocean to kill her. Which is what I thought the first time I saw this episode. ah The amount of anxiety the whole time, like he's taking her out, he's gonna eat her, like it's gonna be terrible. But to Erin's point, like at the end when she brings this up, when she's like, you're telling me the story to what? To scare me?
00:43:14
Speaker
like He didn't need to take her out into the ocean to kill her. He could have killed her at her door. Yeah. Cause she wouldn't have known to run. Right. She wouldn't have. Yeah. He could have killed her right there. So, uh, that's why she knows there's got to be like some other motivation to this, right? So he takes her out there to do the flashback to tell us, the viewer and her what the heck happened. I mean, obviously Riley's a vampire, but you know,
00:43:45
Speaker
So it flashes back to in the community center with Pruitt helping to put Riley's neck back in place, which I don't even know how he knows how to do that. I feel like it would have gone there eventually. but Maybe he's just making it happen faster, but but but there's like so much crunching when he does that. I'm like, are you know helping? Are you helping? Or are you hurting? You're not a doctor.
00:44:07
Speaker
Hmm. I have concerns. Uh, but Pruitt tells, uh, Riley a story at this point. That's like, I think super important to Pruitt's character, um, about his sister. His sister died. Yeah. When they were kids of polio. Uh, polio. That's right. Yeah. It was polio. Uh, and it made him afraid of death. Uh, he's never stopped being afraid of death. Yes.
00:44:34
Speaker
i And that's kind of like his whole motivation, right? And he says, ah you know, God has a plan and death isn't a part of it anymore. And I'm just like, I don't know about you. I watch Torchwood Children and Men.
00:44:49
Speaker
Death is actually kind of important to keep the planet, you know, from being overrun with dead people. There's but its a Star Trek episode about that too, an original series on... Yeah. Overpopulation, y'all. If people don't die, it's on it's a whole, a whole thing. And, you know, yeah, someday, you know, in Revelation, there is a, you know, point where death, maybe metaphorically, maybe really, won't happen, but it's a new heaven and a new earth, so things will be different.
00:45:17
Speaker
ah we are not there yet and father Paul's trying to make it happen with vampirism solves all the problems this is great I love being a vampire and then starts ah the most important AA meeting of Riley's life and this is conversation has so much double meaning all the time and I love it. I love everything about it. First off, Riley tries to run away and almost burns to death. Yeah. So he can't escape. Uh, and then, uh, now you have to sit and listen to me. I love father's Paul's, like, let's start with serenity and Riley being like, are you effing kidding me? He's like, nothing is wrong here.
00:46:05
Speaker
I, I, which, you know, this is an appropriate response. Like, I, I don't curse and I feel like at this point I would be like, what the F? Like, why are we really doing this right now? Like he just murdered me. What's happening here? It's like, you, you, like,
00:46:27
Speaker
Potentially broke my neck like three times or fixed it. I don't know. There was a weird monster. I ran outside and caught fire and You're just you're just gonna start off with like this is any other AA meeting ye like ah no ay Then we get the other important story about death and faith which is Riley and the Mouse and I love this story because it just so tells us so much about Paul. Mm hmm. Right. Riley came to him with a mouse that was in pain or dead or something like that. It was dying and asked. It was caught in a trap, wasn't it? Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
or he had gotten it out of the trap or something because he said like the leg was barely hanging on. Yes, but it was still alive. Yes. Because Father Pruitt said he had to put out of his merit misery. it was He was like, pray in three days, we'll see what situation it is. And three days later, it was better. And we learned that Father Pruitt replaced the mouse. Yes. So Father Pruitt is okay with a faith based on deception.
00:47:37
Speaker
Because he's very, the end justifies the means. Which, I mean, you look back at his Good Friday sermon, that is, it doesn't matter what you do between now and the end. You can do horrible things. It doesn't matter as long as it brings someone one to Christ in the end. It doesn't matter.
00:47:57
Speaker
So yeah, it's, it's okay. I can lie to people. I can make them believe something that's not true in order to believe something that is true. And he's perfectly okay with that. But the thing is he set Riley up to become an atheist with that. Right? Like, cause when you base your faith on a lie and then you discover the lie,
00:48:24
Speaker
You're gonna be like, none of it's real. Even if it's a lie that points to truth, because yeah, if you, being a Christian is all about truth. It's all about following the truth and believing the truth. And that means any, anything else is going to taint that.
00:48:44
Speaker
This is my, this is, I'm very passionate about this cause this gets me on like conspiracy theorists because I feel like they're a tool like here. I'm going to get all soapboxy. They're a tool of Satan to break down a Christian's testimony. Because if they are so concentrated on truth and so fully invested in truth that, and then they buy something that's not true and they tout that and they preach it and they will like die on that Hill, it's like,
00:49:13
Speaker
why would I believe anything else that they see? Right? You've just tainted everything. And yeah similarly, but more silly, like this is why my family didn't do Santa Claus growing up and why I won't do Santa Claus with Peggy because my dad says that when he learned Santa Claus wasn't real, he questioned everything. Cause if they're lying about him, then they're lying about Jesus. I think that's the thing about stuff like this is when you're questioning and you discover something like this that's clearly not real. yeah It makes your whole faith a house of cards.
00:49:49
Speaker
And that's why when I was teaching middle school, Sunday school, like the one thing I'd tell the middle schoolers, is like I will never lie to you. Like if you ask me a question, I don't know the answer. I'll say, I don't know. And if you ask me a question that's like controversial and a lot of people have different opinions on it, I'm going to give you the top three answers and like how people justify them and be like, I'm going to give you the bounds, right? Like as long as you're within this box, you can once again,
00:50:13
Speaker
love God, love your neighbor, is Jesus the Son of God? You're probably checking okay, right? As long as we're within these bounds, you're probably okay. Father Pruitt's outside those bounds. Oh, for sure. As we'll see in here, because he ah directly compares himself to Jesus again. Yeah, that I have that in there too. It's like, did you did you just you just do this again? Yeah, again. And he's like,
00:50:37
Speaker
because Because, you know, at this point, obviously, Riley is realizing that this is Father Pruitt. Yes. Right. Because he was like, how do you know this story? Because it was, he knows he's the little boy. Yes. And so.
00:50:49
Speaker
That's when he realizes this guy is Father Pruitt. Pruitt says, you know who I am. Look, do you need to touch the marks in my hands? And I'm just like, you have no marks in your hands. Like, first off, you have been healed. Like, you have no marks. You have no, like, wound in your side. No, no, no. No, no, no, no. That's why it's like a completely inappropriate comparison on every level.
00:51:11
Speaker
Because not only is he comparing himself to Jesus, but there are no marks in his hand. Like, how would you physically prove? Like, you're like, Riley, touch me. I'm real. How? What physically about you is proving that your father proved it? So you're dumb. p Prove it. I mean, I get, I, I get that this is like, this is a ah metaphor, but I just, I just don't like it because it's like,
00:51:33
Speaker
No, you are now in like you are in like blasphemy type of You're in that that land right? Which I mean he did a lot in the last episode He keeps doing in this episode because later when he calls Riley an apostle. Yeah, actually blasphemy Not like when we hear something we don't like and we jokingly. Oh, that's me like this is like actual blasphemy Elevating yourself to Jesus a He so I love how Pruitt is like, why did you come back? Did you feel a calling from God? Like that's the thing Pruitt wants to know. What brought Riley back to the ah ah community center? And he thinks it's some, because Pruitt wants this to be further proof.
00:52:20
Speaker
that he is like the second company, right? That Riley felt a draw, a pool. And instead, Riley's like, you lied to me. and I was confronting you about it. I want to know what happened to Joe. Joe Collie's sister? And he was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I did lie. Sorry. Sorry about that. i And this is when he basically admits that he murdered Joe Collie. Riley's just like, this is not OK.
00:52:48
Speaker
Right. Like, well, then when you get into, it gets even more messed up when he's like, like, Oh yeah. Um, you know that blood thirsty feeling like that blood? I don't, I don't feel guilty for it. This is so obviously God, God wanted me to do this. Obviously. And I was thinking, you know, once again, he's equating the Holy Spirit with your conscious lack of guilt is not lack of sin. Right.
00:53:19
Speaker
I'm pretty sure it's the sign of a psychopath, but what do I know? i you know he um He quotes Hebrews, I think it's 914, and says something about how God's gonna cleanse our conscious. But that's supposed to be like God helping you. like You've repented, right? And God being like, they're there. there It's okay. Not like it's okay to just like go out and commit unlimited sins. And then the thing I keep coming back to is he thinks that not feeling guilty makes him like a higher being or something like he's not sending, but not feeling guilty makes you an animal.
00:54:00
Speaker
He's your psychopath. Do you think a wolf feels guilty that he killed something? no No, like even dogs don't feel guilty when they do something
Riley's Redemption and Sacrifice
00:54:08
Speaker
bad. They're just, it's a fear response because they think they're going to get in trouble for what they did, but they don't feel guilty because they're animals. Yes. Like this is literally, you know, if we're going to be all religious, which is whole show is this is literally what separates us from the animals. We have like a knowledge of good and evil. Yes.
00:54:26
Speaker
Which is why Adam and Eve felt shame when they realized they were naked. Do you think my dog feels shame about being naked? You take his collar off and he's naked. No, in fact, if anything, he's like, I can scratch there now. And of course it was Bev who gave him this verse. Of course. She's still walking. I ah hate her.
00:54:49
Speaker
And then I love when um they have this, uh, when father Paul pushes Riley and is like, how does it make you feel? Well, like even, even like a little bit before that, when he's, he's rambling about it. Cause I think at this point he is rambling oh how he didn't feel, he doesn't feel bad for killing Joe. Like this is, this is great. And like, he kind of starts noticing that Riley is not buying what he's selling. And then he's like, well,
00:55:18
Speaker
you killed someone like immediately like how how do you do you remember what that felt like yeah i yeah yeah you did you did kill someone so you're not any better than me like Who are you you you to stand here? And judge me. And judge me. But I love like Riley's response when he talks about killing Tara Beth and he says something like, it was ordinary. Well, cause father Paul is like trying to find like a purpose in the fact that Riley killed this girl. Yeah. Right. And Riley's like, no, it was ordinary. And that's what makes it horrible. Right. That he didn't even think about it.
00:56:01
Speaker
like he was just like in the car he was asleep at the wheel basically and just killed her and it was just another tuesday right and that's what makes it horrible and instead father paul's trying to find a deeper purpose and he's like there is no deeper purpose and i think that's both true and false right because once again I don't think there is a deeper purpose to our sinning, right? Right. But I think like you said, God can use those things that have happened to us to,
00:56:34
Speaker
like Riley, put us in the right place at the right time. Right. Which I love because everything Father Paul says here is true. Everything happened so Riley would be on the island when he needed to be. Yes. But it's not a moment what Father Pruitt thinks it is. Yes.
00:56:54
Speaker
i I wrote down the quote like, it put you right here on this island right now at one of the most crucial moments in the history of our world. It's true. Yes. Because if they won at the end, the world that would pretty much be the end of the world. Yes. So it's like this horrible, Riley did this horrible thing. If you want to see like God's like overt hand and things, obviously this is a story.
00:57:18
Speaker
right? the narrators over at hand who is god in this story. yes. why did riley get released from jail now? right? because there's a million things that could have either extended his stay or getting it done early right? like but he got released now. why is he on this island now? and it's because he is the only person who has actually murdered someone and can look at father paul and say you're wrong.
00:57:48
Speaker
Like everyone else knows intellectually that murder is wrong, yeah right? Riley knows. Except for Father Paul, he apparently did. And Bev. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, Bev had no problem. She did murder a dog.
00:58:03
Speaker
Also, either the the Angel thing, it just... Yeah, I just... I also love when... Because I think I like i laughed a little bit out loud when Paul was... ah or Pruitt was accusing Riley of feeling guilt every day for Tara Beth. And Riley admits that, yes, he he hates he feels that every day. And Pruitt's basically like, see, I don't, and that's why I'm better than you.
00:58:29
Speaker
I just like, really? That's what makes you a bad person. oh And Riley is jealous, right? And he says that. And yeah, cause you know, not feeling guilty would be... Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. He wishes that every night before he went to bed, he didn't see the face of this girl he killed. Yeah. And I just, and he didn't even as actively murder her as Paul murdered Joe. Right.
00:58:58
Speaker
Because Joe could have gotten help. h But then Paul was like, ah, no. Instead of helping you, I'm going to eat your face. I also love when Riley asked, like so did you, when I was lying there bleeding out, did you feed? Pruitt's just kind of like, maybe. Well, if Riley's like, total honesty, he's like, yes. Is that what you want? Is that what you want to hear? but like Once again, that makes you an animal, Pruitt. not
00:59:30
Speaker
ah Special not Jesus right like Jesus had such self-control he could go into the desert 40 days and 40 nights and not give in to the devil's temptation What are you doing through it can't even make it three days. I don't And then there's Bev here she comes in every every scene is the worst it really is she's baffled that Riley was chosen and I wrote down a stop talking Bev Well, and this is what bothers me because like later on, we see this in a futuret future episode, she doesn't take the poison. Right. She's terrified of this. She also doesn't offer her blood. Right. And it's just like the fact that she's mad at him because he died and is now undead. He was picked, chosen. It's like,
01:00:25
Speaker
but You can't have it both ways. yeah I also found it interesting too and I just kind of go, i I can bring it up later, but when Pruitt calls her over to like demonstrate to Riley how bloodthirsty he is, like she doesn't want to go. She does it because she trusts Father Pruitt and then as she leans and tells her to lean forward,
01:00:51
Speaker
you can hear her heartbeat start elevating because, or start getting faster because she's terrified of what is happening right now. I also, she questions father Pruitt twice on that, which if you really think father Pruitt is Jesus twice is a lot to question him. Yeah. She's like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah. And she's like, is this a good idea? And I'm like, Bev, you don't even believe like,
01:01:21
Speaker
she's a hypocrite so totally completely um i also wrote down um obviously the blood and communion are juxtaposed a lot in the show yes and i was thinking about riley rejecting sturge's blood which is in the communion cup and then ultimately he gives in to the temptation he drinks it right yeah this is the first time he's taken communion since he murdered someone uh-huh and it's blood oh Right. Cause he did not take it in church. He was refusing to. So like, I feel like his first refusal is not just out of the principle that it's blood, but also out of the principle of like, I don't do this anymore. Yeah. Right. And it's like the fact that the hunger in him overrides his like moral stance. I feel like this is what makes Riley realize like this is a real danger. Yeah. And I shouldn't be here. Yeah. Uh, also Bev thinks they're in revelation.
01:02:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's like how do you explain the skin burning off. And she's like, bam, going to drop some verses about bowls that don't actually mean any have anything to do with the skin burning off, but whatever. also Also, I'm just like, I have a question. You know, no one like whether the rapture is real or not. This is obviously highly contested. I grew up in the 90s in the church. So obviously the rapture was a huge thing.
01:02:44
Speaker
But do you really think the bowls of wrath are only going to be poured out on the chosen? Because that's what she's saying here, right? Like when I thought there was some things like during the tribulation that are not going to be experienced by the chosen. But which but so she's doing the opposite here, right? Because if only the vampires are the chosen and they are the only ones who feel the wrath of the sun,
01:03:10
Speaker
Like this doesn't make sense. Nothing about this makes sense. But she doesn't care. She just, she, it's a weapon. She just, she knows it all so she can twist it however she wants. It's like, I,
01:03:28
Speaker
i Bev also says something like about she's, she's super pissed at Riley, right? Like, uh, and that he was chosen. Father Paul's just gonna wanna walk away. But she has this little rant where she's like, they're being blessed right now and they don't even know it, like blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, it's a non-consensual blessing, by the way. Which actually- Is it a blessing? If it's a blessing. But I'm like, it took Aaron's baby.
01:03:53
Speaker
So how is it a blessing? Of course they don't know that. But see, but the way Bev looks at everyone is that like none of them are as good as she is. And so, of course, Riley, the murderer, the drunken murderer, all of us, he gets to have this eternal life. Like, oh she's she's the equivalent of, I don't know if this is even right, but the the vine dressers that like have been working all day and they get the same wages as the people that came on the last like hour of the day or whatever. she is And he's complaining to the manager about it. Yes. She's complaining to them. There are Karens in the Bible. I love it. I love that at the end of this conversation, at the end of the AA meeting, I really believe Riley feels at peace. Oh yeah. Just not for the reasons Pruitt wants. He's made the decision he's going to kill himself. Yes. He's like, it's over. He thinks about it. He's like, yep, I'm at peace now. I know what I need to do.
01:04:50
Speaker
But I also, before that too, because Pruitt talks about serenity again, before he lets them go. And it's not the actual prayer. It's a synopsis of the prayer, and it has added things, which goes along with like cult stuff. where he and start a So serenity starts off with the the accepting seeing things that you cannot change, the courage to change the things that you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. But he rewords it, so he starts off with the wisdom,
01:05:18
Speaker
where he asks for wisdom to know what we can change what we cannot change and what we shouldn't change and at face value you're like oh that's it's the same thing but it's not the same thing but it's also probably what Riley needed to hear yeah but not to do what Paul wanted him to do yes right he's like yes I need to have the wisdom to know what I cannot change and what I'm not strong enough to do. And what, I feel like him taking the communion cup and drinking the blood, he was like, I am not strong enough to stand against this temptation. Like he's already an alcoholic and now you've given him the greatest alcoholism of all time. Yes. And it will hurt someone every single time he partakes. And outside of Bev, he loves everyone on that Island, right? He cared about Joe. Yeah. Right? like
01:06:13
Speaker
who's who's he gonna he's gonna hurt someone he cares about well and even then it doesn't even matter at that point he's gonna hurt someone that someone else cares about yeah which is what happened with Tara Beth yes because he didn't care about like he didn't even know Tara Beth existed yes but he knows that he hurt her and he knows that you're every person who knew her and so Riley's like it's over like he basically knows at this point he's like I have a night left mm-hmm And so what's he gonna do with his night? He's gonna spend it with Aaron. And I love just like the timing of this episode, cause this is all flashback. This end here when they release Riley, then Father Pruitt goes to the Good Friday sermon. Yes. So it's just like all of that preps, like why he's talking about horrible things. Cause he's, he's thinking about Riley. Cause that's the second horrible thing he's done. Joe Collie and letting Riley die. Yes. Right? And then drinking his blood. Yes.
01:07:11
Speaker
i I also love, ah once again, Bev being like, he's hardly the reliable sort. And I'm like, actually, Riley's pretty reliable. Yes. i just You're just judging him. I also can't stand this. I don't know. This is probably extra. But like, how he refers to eating someone as entering into communion with someone. Like, that just...
01:07:36
Speaker
Like, oh yeah, and you'll give yourself over to God when this happens. and Because I guess you black out when this is happening? I don't know, but I just, I can't. I cannot. An animal instinct takes over. ah And once again, what if he tells people, that's what apostles are for. Once again, Father Pruitt thinks he's Jesus.
01:07:55
Speaker
I can't, but I appreciate the visual representation as they leave the rec center because Riley goes off one way and Father and Pruitt goes off the other and so it's kind of like a visual representation of how they accept their their like their being a vampire yeah like Riley's like oh I'm not doing this like and also like Riley's parents are expecting him at the Good Friday sermon. Like they mentioned at the beginning of the episode where they're like muttering to each other and mom is like, no, no, he'll be here. Right? He could have been there. Yes, he was alive. Well, sort of. He was undead. He was conscious. But he chooses not to be there and he wanders around aimlessly throughout the entire Good Friday sermon because everyone he wants to talk to
01:08:43
Speaker
is in is in the Good Friday sermon. And then we see things from his perspective. Like we see Millie come out of the church and it's Riley watching it, right? And I feel like that's the, like he's already made his decision, but that's the hour of that service when I feel like he really just like, it's like, no. This is happening. So he goes and he stalks his family for a little bit, watches them while they're sleeping and realizes. Well, it's a typical vampire thing. Yeah, it is.
01:09:14
Speaker
Twilight, Buffy, this is epic. I mean I think that's important too because as he's standing there staring at them he is tempted by their blood. Yes, he hears their heartbeat. And he's like oh man I could kill him. I can't do this. So then we flash forward to him on the boat with Aaron um and once again she's like oh snap he's gonna murder me.
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think she kind of gets that. Well, so I thought that was what it was at first, but, um, I also wonder if she just, if she didn't believe him. Sure. Yeah. Cause she's, just why would you do you need help? Like I'm here. You have some weird, like, if you think this happened, she's, yeah, she's totally like, she says, um,
01:10:05
Speaker
I'm not scared, not of you. If you're sick or need help, I'm not scared of that. and like She's such a good friend. And they showed her heartbeat. He hears her heartbeat. And I compare it to Bev's heartbeat when she leaned into him.
01:10:20
Speaker
And you hear the heartbeat get faster that when it shows errands, like it is flat. It is constant the whole time. Even as she's, you brought me out here so I couldn't get away. ah Do you need help? Are you okay? Like it, she, her heartbeat never gets elevated while she's talking to him.
01:10:41
Speaker
But I also think that that's because she doesn't fully believe. And I feel like that cements Riley's decision to not go back to shore. That she he knows she will not believe unless she sees it. And so he both wants to die and he needs her to see it. And then I love his line, I brought you out here so I would have nowhere to go.
01:11:04
Speaker
And it was near my god till he starts playing. The music during this is so like, cause it also, they play him while he's wandering the town, right? like that's But that's like the death hymn in this series. Cause they play it when they're talking about death. At the end of the series, everybody's singing it as they're dying or as they know they're about to die. So it's when I heard it playing, I was just like, no
01:11:35
Speaker
a And I love how he tells her, like he wants her to row to the mainland and never look back, but he knows she's not she's not gonna do that because she is going to try to help them and he wishes she wouldn't. Because he just wants her to be safe. Yes. Because he loves her. And he says, I'm sorry, you have to see this and I've loved you my whole life. I know.
01:12:01
Speaker
Like I'm starting to tear up. And then he says, I did my best and the sun is coming up. And I feel like that's when Aaron's like, she's probably thinking like, is he going to pull out a gun? Like, you know, like what, what, what? But no, he bursts into flames in her fur. But we don't see that at first. Like we see from his perspective. Yeah. Cause I, at first I thought, Oh, nothing happened. Like, is there some sort of like magical thing where if he decides he's going to do good, like,
01:12:31
Speaker
he He can reverse his vampirism, and then you turn and you see Terabeth reaching out to him. like oh my know a way to like oh sign of forgiveness like yes and I do love that this ending has two interpretations right because based on Riley's own what happens when you die monologue right he's like at the end you're tripping balls seeing things yeah like so from his
01:13:03
Speaker
worldview before this happens like it's like this is what his mind makes up as its last release of endorphins and you know all these things before he dies so this is what he wanted it's terrible for giving him yes but also from the christian perspective if you're like no this is really happening it's like very like faucian type of like to have her bring, reaching her hand out like she's gonna bring him to heaven. Right. But it's like, it's like God has forgiven him. Yes. Right? Really the only person who couldn't forgive Riley was Riley. And it's like, Tara Beth has forgiven him. God has forgiven him. He has done what he needed to do. He has done what God sent him to the island to do.
01:13:47
Speaker
and now he can go be at peace, which is all he ever wanted. And you're just like ugly crying. And then we cut back to Aaron screaming. Yeah, that's then like chaotic, chaotic crying. And i I mean, like it would be horrible to see like the person that you love like burst into flames and like disintegrate in front of you. So I wrote down the juxtaposition of this is insane. Like going from like the peace of like Tara Beth holding out her hand, grabbing his and them standing up to like Erin screaming. I'm trying to get away and she can't get away. like oh oh it's And then the episode ends. Like it goes credits and it's still her screaming. Yes. And you're just like, but I do have a vampire question. Okay. Vampire flames don't catch a wooden boat on fire. on fire That is a good point.
01:14:42
Speaker
Did Riley not think of this? What if he had killed her? What if she had been in a boat that was on fire? Maybe it's like, have you seen those videos on Facebook where they have the Southeast Asian lady cooking in a plastic bag? She has a plastic bag full of water over a fire and she's just making, I'm thinking there has to be cancer in that, something, but the bag doesn't melt. That's weird. I have not seen this video, I'm just concerned.
01:15:08
Speaker
I'm a thermal engineer. People have said that it's thermal mass and that's why it doesn't melt. I don't know. I have not looked into this. I don't want to think about it, but it's still just, I feel like there has to be some sort of thing that gets into the food that is not healthy, but whatever. Maybe it's like that. Or maybe it's- We're all eating plastic. Maybe it's like mystical demon fire and it only burns human flesh. It could be, which is what I feel like it is in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Vampire flesh. So, you know. But yeah.
01:15:37
Speaker
the boat does not burn down. Erin lives. But that's next episode. So any ending thoughts on this episode? I just wrote down crying, ugly crying. But it's my favorite one. Most Flanagan film, or not films, but shows have that one moment where I just like chef, chef kiss, like, this is perfect. And that that episode has it for me. So Yeah, and Haunting of Hill House is the Nell episode. Yes, yes, that, my mind was absolutely blown away with that. Also a crying episode. Just throwing that out there. In Bligh Manor too, when the housekeeper realizes what, I don't want to spoil it, but her realization, that was it for me. Bligh Manor, the housekeeper episode, and then the very last episode.
01:16:24
Speaker
I cry every time. And I don't even like Bly Manor that much and I'm just like crying ugly. Yeah, no, that one. that But that that episode is so good. But this is so good and it just keeps being good. But once again, if you have watched this episode and you're like, this show is not for me, I would say finish the show just because there's only like two episodes left. But.
01:16:44
Speaker
But it it this to me, this is the pinnacle of the show. yeah this This was the chef kiss moment. And um it's, I wouldn't say it goes downhill from here, but it stays steady. Yeah. So yeah, Riley is dead. Our main character is dead a second time.
01:17:06
Speaker
Show has now successfully killed him twice. And it's not over yet. And he's not coming
Reflections on Resurrection and Conclusion
01:17:11
Speaker
back this time. Yep. So... I don't think so. Like, not... I don't think you come back from that. I don't know. I don't think you come back from being undead and being killed. And disintegrating. And disintegrating. There's not even a body left at that point. What are we resurrecting here? Right. Like, I don't think God's gonna bring him back. So... Or any anything else. There are any nefarious forces at work.
01:17:36
Speaker
So yeah, at the beginning of the episode, she thought he was dead at the end of the episode. He really is dead. He is dead. And she has seen it with her own eyes. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any other ending thoughts on this episode? Uh, no, I think we covered it. All right. We've kept it to our hour and a half as we promised. Uh,
01:17:57
Speaker
Thank you, Rachel, for coming to discuss with us. Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure. We will be back eventually to discuss the next episode.
01:18:09
Speaker
We hope
Preview of Next Episode and Closing Remarks
01:18:13
Speaker
you enjoyed this episode and that you will join us again next month on November 15th. I'll be welcoming back Jessica Camacho to continue our discussion of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time with book three, The Dragon Reborn.
01:18:24
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Mandemonium. You can find me, Mandy, on Twitter at brown underscore aja. That's A-J-A-H. You can also find the podcast on Twitter at MandemoniumPod, and we also have a podcast Facebook page. Theme music for this podcast was created by Skips of Beat Music. Thank you so much for listening, and we hope you come back next time.