Transcript
Speaker: Hello there, I'm Dr. Autumn, leadership consultant, wellness coach, author, and I'm incredibly grateful to be your host of the Align Living podcast.
Speaker: I'm here to equip you with the tools, inspiration, and practical tips necessary to lead a life of wholeness and pursue greater shalom in your life and that of your families, teams, and communities.
Speaker: My mission is to empower you to lead from a place of holistic wellbeing. It's time to say, peace out to the fatigue, fog, and frustration of living in a place that lacks abundant wellbeing.
Speaker: Join me as we embark on a comprehensive exploration of spiritual, physical, mental, emotional, social, and economic well-being, all within the comforting embrace of one podcast.
Speaker: Hey, good people. Welcome back to the Aligned Living Podcast. Dr. Autumn here. Super excited to have you back with me. um Had so much fun on today's ah talk. As you can tell, this episode being just a few minutes is longer than usual, but it is so worth it. You want to listen to the very end. Was so excited. um i want to ask you a question. What if one of the biggest things impacting your mental, emotional, and even physical health is not just something that you need to fix within yourself, but is something you need from other people.
Speaker: um You see, we live in this culture that celebrates independence, but the truth is we were never created to do life alone. So in today's episode, I get to talk with my longtime friend,
Speaker: therapist and social worker, Haidi Orr, about social well-being and what she calls relational resilience. You're going to love this conversation. We talk about why relationships matter so much to our overall health, why vulnerability and connection can feel so difficult at times, and how we can build relationships that are reciprocal, resilient, and life-giving. Haidi shares so much practical wisdom in this conversation, including one reminder I think we all need to hear. that relational health is mental health.
Speaker: And as you know, ah part of the value of ah this Aligned Living podcast is not only to have practical conversations, but take um some unexpected routes when it comes to sharing information with you that is not always commonly thought about or known. So take a listen and enjoy. Let's get into it.
Speaker: Hey everyone, i am so excited to welcome my longtime friend, Haidi Orr to the show. and believe it or not, it's been 20 years since I met this incredible human being. Can you believe that, Haidi? I cannot. Wow. 20 years is a long time.
Speaker: Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. But um I will, even though our lives have taken us in all kinds of directions, having kids and pursuing all kinds of um transformative work, you will always be a sister to me. And I'm just so grateful to be interviewing you because you have knowledge and expertise in that area that I've been wanting to bring to the show for a while. So today we're gonna be talking all about social wellbeing, relational resilience. I'm super excited. for you to share your knowledge with us. So um as we- thanks for having me.
Speaker: For sure. As we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got into social work therapy, why you wanted to go into those spaces, a little bit about just you as a person.
Speaker: Yeah. um Well, and just to reiterate, thank you so much for having me. And you also are my sister and will always be like a sister. You were in my wedding, so you're a very special part of our lives. And so I'm thankful for you, Autumn, and so grateful for the work that you're doing.
Speaker: in these spaces. It's so needed. um But yes, so what a little bit about me. OK, so I am a licensed master social worker. um i graduated from the University of Wisconsin, where I met Autumn with my bachelor's of social work. I went on to get my master's from the University of Tennessee in social work, and I'm currently working on my doctorate from the University of Tennessee for social work as well. And so my field, really my niche is I do private practice where I work with individuals and families and groups and marriages. i do a lot of work surrounding trauma, but also restorative practices. And in my work in doing a lot of restorative work with families, I have come across my niche, which is relational resilience is what I call it. And um That is my wheelhouse. So that's actually part of my research now with my university is focusing on the the healing power of relationships um within the African American male population in America.
Speaker: And so, yeah, that's that's what I do. And in addition to that, I also am the mental health director for Athlete Transition Services, where we help athletes transition and adjust to life after sports. But one of the big pieces that I also hone in on there is what are the relational supports? What are the the ways that your relationships could help you through that transition out of sports and into the real world? So a lot about relationships.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. And I'm so excited about this because I feel like more and more of my experience with people, I'm realizing like people are isolating themselves, feeling like having good community is so optional. Like, let me, you know, you know, travel the world or let me, you know, focus on my self-care and read a book and just neglecting the value of relationship. So I'm so excited to dive into this. But I do want to ask you one or two other just questions about yourself before we we get into that part. um
Speaker: So what have years of working with people taught you about what humans need most? Ooh, o that's a great question. Okay, so I've been practicing since 2009.
Speaker: two thousand nine So how many years is that? 17 years? Okay. In the 17 years of working with people, a couple of things come to mind right away. Number one, i think we need people.
Speaker: We need other people, right? um Not just other people. We need other people who we can share meaning with, regardless of what that, you know, topic or, you know, whatever that commonality is. But we need to be able to share meaning with others. And then we also need that meaning to be reciprocal.
Speaker: So there needs to be a reciprocity in our relationship. So it's not enough to just have a lot of friends. It's not enough to be married. It's not enough to have children, right? What makes it enough, what we need is that reciprocity. And then the other piece that we also need most is um consistency within those relationships.
Speaker: So not just reciprocity, but I need you to be consistently available. I need you to be consistently show up for me and I need to consistently show up for you. And there needs to be this predictability in our relationships, you know, that creates that safety and that trust that you're going to be there.
Speaker: Right. So I think what we need most are other people who reciprocate meaning and reciprocate also that predictability that we can trust each other and we'll be there for each other. And we're doing things in life that are meaningful together, whatever that is.
Speaker: um And we need God. Right. So we were created to live in perfect relationship with God and with each other. So we got the each other part. But then the other part is God. You know, God himself has never been alone.
Speaker: God himself has always been in relationship with the Father and with the Holy Spirit. So it's he replicated himself. Right. So, again, it's we're supposed to be in relationship with God and we need that relationship. And then we need that relationship with each other.
Speaker: That is so good. um As you were talking, I was thinking about like I spend so much my time teaching and coaching others, but you're hitting on things super personal for me, even with talking about like boundaries and the value boundaries, because that mutuality and consistency for me personally have become the two of the most important things that i have learned to have boundaries around, whether it's romantic relationships, family, friends, Like how important that is. So I can't wait to dive into that more. But I like this is really this so, so good. um
Speaker: One more thing about just kind of diving into your your story as someone who spends your days caring for others. I mean, your wife and a mom, but also your work, you're literally caring for people all day. How do you care for yourself and stay emotionally healthy?
Speaker: Oh, my goodness, Adam. I love this question because I actually have so many good answers. And I feel like I feel like in my field, in the field of social workers, we generally do a really poor job maintaining a healthy work life balance. So I think I have to give myself some props over the years. I have really learned to cultivate self-love.
Speaker: and self-care well in this space because I need to in order to survive. Like you said, I care for people's people's stories, right? People's the heaviness that they carry in their heart, we're healers in the space. And so they all come to us with all of these burdens and things. And 2020, I went full time with my practice. And that's when I realized after a couple months, I'm burning out.
Speaker: And so what I started to do through the guidance, the gentle guidance of the Holy Spirit, because God has always been right here guiding me along the way. And it was okay.
Speaker: There's a couple things. Number one, um I learned to compartmentalize um emotionally after work, my client work, and then my regular life. So I pictured myself almost like a a cylinder.
Speaker: And when I'm in sessions, everything is going inside of the cylinder, right? All of people's problems, issues, and things. So that visualization helps help me to understand like all this stuff is going in. But then the cylinder doesn't have a bottom.
Speaker: The cylinder is open at the bottom. So everything at the end of the day should come right out. Right. And so what I noticed was I was more of a container when I was burning out. I had an open lid, but a bottom and I was holding everything. Mm hmm. So after that, I was like, I need to visualize I am a cylinder. It goes in and it goes out and it goes through me. So that visualization really helps and still does when I'm holding on to things. Number two, I became really aware of my symptoms of holding on to things. Right. So when I start to not sleep that well, I'm thinking about sessions and what I should have said, what I could have said, or, oh, I shouldn't have said that, or I should have, you know, the all the things. When I start to think about that outside of sessions for a long period of time, I'm no longer a cylinder.
Speaker: So I go back to that visualization, like I have to mentally release it and let it go. And then something else that helps besides the visualization is every year I take a solo retreat.
Speaker: And it's and it's funny because I've called it a solo retreat so much. But every time I say that the Lord is always like, you're not alone. I'm with you. Right. So solo from other humans. But it's really my spiritual retreat with the Lord. And I go to Sedona once a year for a week at the beginning of the year. And it's my time with God to completely restore my soul. Like it's a complete rendezvous with God.
Speaker: He meets me every single time exactly the way that I need it for that season of my life. And I do it at the top of the year because it's intentional. Like I want that to set the tone for the year. I also get a lot of direction and focus areas for the year that that, you know, God gives me while I'm away. And then um I do goals. I set goals for for the year during that time. So it's a multipurpose trip, but essentially it's just my time to be alone.
Speaker: not have to talk to anybody, but God, and then God pours into me. So in the middle of beauty. So that's the second way that I, so these are rituals that I think I'm i'm sharing with you rituals of self care that I've learned over the years. And then I also am very intentional about my schedule. Like I protect my time.
Speaker: I protect my time. So I only see a limited amount of clients a week and I don't offer, emergency crisis hours, I don't like after hours, I don't take calls from clients outside of sessions, I don't answer emails outside of sessions. So I have very much dedicated time for work and I do a really good job cutting everything off once I'm done.
Speaker: So I protect my time um very, very like, it's and it's also, it's because I feel like I need it, right? So it's almost like mama bearish, like nope,
Speaker: I can't do that. Or so I say no a lot. I say no a lot. So um anyway, so those are just some three things that come to mind. And and then, oh, wait, no, one more.
Speaker: And every single day, every single day, I go out of my way to experience some form of beauty through my five senses. So whether it's tasting something delicious, looking at something beautiful, smelling a delicious scent, right?
Speaker: Hearing a beautiful song, but I am intentional about immersing myself in beauty every day because that feeds my soul. So that's just some, those are some quick tips.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I always i always say like the word Yes, could be such a beautiful gift to so many people, including ourselves. But the the word no is also very valuable in and helping us to be able to show up well in all of our spaces. So I liked everything you shared, but I think that protecting your space is really important for anyone and everyone, no matter what your line of work is, no matter what life brings, because then you can always, no matter how busy you are, like set aside time, especially in the age of distraction. And submerging your senses to beauty is also really helpful for that too, because we're constantly having dings and all kinds of stuff coming our way. And so to to be intentional about that, I think is really beautiful. so um But I'm excited to dive into this concept of yeah relational resilience. I feel like I always like to define things a little bit though, because yes at least for me, when I say I'm like a holistic health practitioner, let's say holistic health, that could mean a lot.
Speaker: Yes. Ten people could hear that word and have ten different definitions. So I would love for you because we hear a lot about physical and mental health, but not as much about social well-being. Yes. How would you define social well-being? What does that even mean? Because I think a lot of people might feel like they they have that in their life, but may or may not. Yes. OK, so excellent question.
Speaker: um Relational resilience is actually a term that I haven't heard before I've started doing my work. So I kind, I actually put, So I created my own definition for relational resilience, and I can share that with you because there isn't like um an official thing out there yet, right? So when I think of, when I am referring to relational resilience, this is how I define it.
Speaker: The capacity to endure challenges, recover from hardship, adapt to change and foster personal growth through mutually, mutually supportive relationships. So that is the key, mutually supportive relationships.
Speaker: So when I think of social well-being, I think of that, people who are able to cultivate healthy, reciprocal, mutually supportive interpersonal relationships.
Speaker: that That's because social well-being is like over. It's the umbrella that relational re resilience, I would assume, is under. So, yeah, as long as people who have the skill set to be able to do that and engage in that practice,
Speaker: um I think are well. And something that we don't, oh my gosh, Autumn, so sorry. I'm being distracted by it's the cutest little animal.
Speaker: Is that an otter? It's so random. Okay. It's an otter in my backyard. Yeah. And for context, he Haiti lives in Detroit. So that makes it even more funny that there's an otter in backyard. What is an otter doing? Okay.
Speaker: Oh, one more thing. um ah that I would say about social well-being is that you're right. We don't talk enough about the importance of relational health. Right.
Speaker: Relational health is mental health. Relational health is interconnected as you know to all the things that we are and we experience and so um i feel like that is a piece that we have grown further and further from emphasizing because in america you know they do value we do value culturally um being independent and being self-sufficient and you know working hard and picking yourself up by our bootstraps but we've lost
Speaker: the essential need for interdependence. We need to be dependent on other people, but that all of a sudden has become like less appealing or almost like look down upon if you need somebody. No, you do need people.
Speaker: We were created to need each other. There's nothing wrong with that. And, but because again, it's a striving community, it's a striving society. then it really does um remove the emphasis and the power but and the need behind needing one another. And I think that's part of why we're lonely. That's part of why we're isolated. That's part of why we're depressed. That's part of why we're so anxious, you know, because we're alone.
Speaker: Yeah. Ooh, this is good too, because I feel like people, um, undervalue the importance of social well-being. They're like, OK, I'm going to work on my mental health. I'm working on my physical health, thinking that it's somehow disconnected from relationships. So that actually leads right into my next question, because I don't think it's just like we are in a super driven society. Yes, that is definitely a big reason I think people do this. But I also think I did an episode where I talked about narratives and the stories we tell ourselves. And there's so many false narratives out there. and stories that we believe that are harming us and not helping us. And I think one of those is that somehow, so ah you know this focus on having this interdependence and healthy community is some sort of weakness or yeah lack of independence. But it's not, right? We could be a super independent and super strong and still value people. So I would love for you to speak into that a little bit. like
Speaker: How do our relationships influence our mental, emotional, physical health? You kind of talked about that a little bit. So I want you to add, what do you think are the biggest barriers or issues that we're dealing with as humans that are keeping us from embracing this idea? Oh, we don't have enough time.
Speaker: um But, okay, let me just highlight a couple of things ah regarding the research that talks about interconnections and being interconnected, because I think this is important. So, number one, social connection is broadly recognized as a human need, right? Like, we all need it. Think think about even infants. um A lot of us have heard of those studies where the nurses will hug and touch and feed and you know a certain group of babies and they live longer they actually live and then the ones that are left alone or only get fed but not cuddled and all of that they actually die so there is a need for social connection for physical connection for touch that we all have as humans and those are associated with greater lifespans so we live longer
Speaker: when we are in healthy relationships. It also is associated with feeling just an overall sense, but ah greater well-being, right? Like just overall, I'm a healthier person.
Speaker: um It also creates an increase in cognitive processes. So what happens is, what happens is when I'm in community with other people, and if I have a situation that causes me to feel sadness, when I'm in community with other people, those narratives or that sad, those sad feelings that I have, I'm able to bounce those off with other people, off of other people. So those other people then get to help me reinterpret my narratives of the sadness and why I'm sad and because I have their reinterpretations then it allows me to engage in multiple cognitive processes that are not my own that hopefully end up resulting in me having more adaptive belief systems about why I'm sad versus if you're alone you have less
Speaker: Dr. Input from others, and so, then you have less of that cognitive. Dr. activity and so then you kind of get stuck with living in monologues and those monologues often could be inaccurate right making you more and more depressed or more and more isolated so. It helps with cognitive processes. It also helps with stress buffering.
Speaker: um So stress buffering is like when life lives and there's stressful things that happen. Having relationships and living community helps you to mitigate that stress. You know, you get social support from other people. Sometimes tangible resources are offered, but a lot of times it's just emotional support. You can do this. We can you can you're going to make it out of this, you know. taking you out to coffee, giving you a word of encouragement, praying, whatever. But social supports mitigate stress. And then um there was also one more that I wanted to mention.
Speaker: Oh, being in relationships, this is huge, helps to instill identity, right? Like it helps to instill who you are. So it gives you not just identity, but purpose and belonging.
Speaker: So what is my meaning in life? Why am I here? And it gives you that sense of, of so of yeah, of of of community, but also of of meaning. So anyway, those are a few things that I think are really important for people to know. these are e This is like evidence. It's not just...
Speaker: It's facts. It's not just a cutesy idea. This is why we need relationships. But you asked me another question. You said, what are the biggest barriers keeping us from embracing basically an interconnected life, essentially?
Speaker: that what you're saying? Yeah. Like when when people find themselves lonely and and isolated, like what what do you think, you know, ah is keeping people there? You know, it's like I think of this analogy of, you know,
Speaker: when I do health coaching and I want people to eat well and people maybe in theory know for me to feel good, I have to eat good food. But then they like they choose not to do it yeah or they have junk in the house. And I'm like and and and so This question might lead to to two different directions, because if you if you are eating a lot of processed food, you might still be thinking I'm eating food, but you're actually not eating the food that your body needs. So even with social well-being, relation relational resilience back to the mutuality thing, i think sometimes people surround the cell with people.
Speaker: but also maybe not the right people. So how can in choosing to change your nutrition habits can be hard without putting yourself in an environment that's going to support the, you know, making the right choices, even though it's not easy. So I would love you to speak to the both of those things. Why do you think some people stay in isolation then when they know that needing people could be important and then also surround yourself with the right people like yeah what what is beneath the surface of those things that lead people maybe to choose harmful relationships or to stay isolated yeah what's going on there yeah great questions again okay so
Speaker: I don't want to speak in general terms because I think number one, the answer to that question is going to be very different based on the groups of people that we are referring to.
Speaker: Right. So I can say that, you know, the African-American men that I'm studying, right, the adult African-American men, they have very unique psychosocial, emotional, structural barriers that that influence their ability to connect with others. so So I think it's very, it it really does depend on the group of people that you're referring to. And then there's diversity even within those groups. But sure but but I don't think you want me to get into all that. So I think more generally speaking, let me just speak from my practice experience then.
Speaker: So more generally speaking, the clients that I have worked with that come in with chronic loneliness, I think one of the barriers that gets in the way for them in connecting well with others is they just don't know how to do it.
Speaker: Like it's it's as simple as they don't have the skill set to know. There have been so many times that we're grown men.
Speaker: not racial specific, just grown men, white, black, Indian, doesn't matter. They will sit across from me and they'll say, well, how do you make a friend?
Speaker: who Like how, how do you even do that in your grown age? Like you are in your forties and fifties and you don't know how to make a friend. What do I say when I meet someone new?
Speaker: Like basic social skills they do not have for whatever reason, right? for For whatever reason. So I think number one, one of the barriers is people have the desire, sure, but they don't know how.
Speaker: the second Like they don't have the social skills, the friendship skills, the interpersonal skills, the communication skills. They're they're not equipped with all of those skill sets that are needed in order to have proper social integration.
Speaker: That's the first thing. I think the second barrier that gets in the way is not just having the skills, but then you also being a person that someone else would want to be friends with.
Speaker: so So it's like, okay, I can teach you all day all this all the skills you need, Brian, right? Imaginary client Brian, I can teach you all the things.
Speaker: But then if Brian doesn't know then how to reciprocate the things he's asking for from other people, if he himself doesn't know, oh, empathic listening, like how do I just not interrupt when someone's talking and hear them?
Speaker: How do i you know, not offer solutions and just be here to support them? Like if, so if, if the person themselves is not the type of person that would make a good friend for, for someone else, I think that gets down to like character, right? Like character development.
Speaker: So I think that that's more deeper work that would need to happen within them, less selfishness and more about seeing the value in being there for other people.
Speaker: So those are two things. And then I think the last barrier would probably be, like we mentioned earlier, there's just a lack of value that is placed in American culture. And it's very specific to America.
Speaker: Like in my work, looking at other cultures in other countries, um that's not the case. Communal living is the norm. in a lot of other places, third world countries, places that aren't as resourced as America, the more um financially lucrative a country becomes, the more industrialized they become, the less dependent they are on community.
Speaker: Right? And so the more we're striving for independence, the more independent we become. So it's, um I think that because in this country there is a lack of value placed in the richness of interpersonal connections and the value of living in community, then That explains the other stuff, actually. right It explains why people don't know and why they don't take a lot of time to work on themselves to be a good friend and what does that look like.
Speaker: Does that make sense? For sure. For sure. um I'm curious to what you think also um ah as far as like kind of a barrier How much fear of being vulnerable, how many how many times do fears get in the way of people engaging or or wanting healthy community? Because I feel like i experience that a lot with folks. like It's like I have walls up.
Speaker: And when I think about community, yeah that makes me feel like I will have to be vulnerable and I don't like that. And is that attached to confidence? Like yeah I'm around people all day, so i'm I'm trying to like figure out like what what are yeah some of the other, yeah so.
Speaker: That's huge. I'm so glad you brought that up and that actually should have been the first one. Okay, so people, it's this, that it's this, contradiction that's happening it's this like oxymoron people want to be seen but they don't want to be seen who right it's like i want you to see me i want to be seen i want to be known we all have that yes but then as soon as someone starts to right and you feel naked, like, oh, hold on.
Speaker: Then you start to cover up, just like what Adam and Eve did, right? Like, oh hold on, hold on, wait, no, shame, shame. Shame is a big reason why people are afraid to be vulnerable because they are afraid of being seen as weak.
Speaker: They are ashamed of what they've done. There's a fear that people won't like you anymore. Like in order to belong and fit in, which is very important for humans, I have to present a certain way. Like I have to...
Speaker: say the right things, do the right things, be funny and be understanding. And so there's all of these like expect unrealistic expectations that we have about what it should be like to be human.
Speaker: And because of that, it does cause us to close close up and not be vulnerable out of fear of rejection and and fear of not being accepted, fear of being seen as weak.
Speaker: So I'm so glad you brought that up. So yeah, in my work, I think that um the teaching opportunity is, okay, well then let's one, process that out loud and let's name that, right? Like the fear of being vulnerable, where does that come from? But then two, then how do we teach supported vulnerability?
Speaker: Mm-hmm. How do we teach that? Because if we're asking people to be vulnerable, then the person on the other side of them has to know how to be supportive of their vulnerability. Yeah. I'm not going to teach a client to be vulnerable and then say, now go and do this with your abusive mother. Absolutely not. Right. So I think it's the, it's more of, it's the human condition where, yes, we all want to need to be vulnerable and want to be vulnerable, but We also need to be well enough and emotionally healthy enough to be safe spaces for people's vulnerability.
Speaker: So it goes back to that reciprocity. Yeah, for sure. OK, so people who are experiencing positive community know like yes i love this this is so good this is life-giving now what would you say are some like baby steps that people can start taking when they've been hurt like i interact with a lot of people on the regular and i feel like a common denominator is you use the word trauma early on but let's just say people have opened themselves up in spaces to people and they've been hurt once, hurt twice, hurt again, and they're like, okay, like I don't know if I can do this again. But we know that for relational resilience and social wellbeing and like just a healthy community, it's necessary to keep moving forward, but what are some things that people could do so that they're like, okay, how can I work work on myself ah for these scenarios? And then also, how can i be aware of like who maybe or,
Speaker: like just navigating that space so it doesn't become hopeless yeah for for folks who've been hurt hurt, hurt, and then hurt again, but they need to keep going. Yes. You have such great questions, Adam. them Again, um not enough time for all of this, but I think what you're hinting at is relational boundaries.
Speaker: So how how people their can preserve there well-being while also taking a risk in new relationships is having healthy relational boundaries. So relational boundaries are created. It's very much a subjective experience because, like you said, it it depends on people's experiences with other people and and the fears that they have and the traumas that they have. So really, you have to ask yourself, OK,
Speaker: what am I looking for in this stage of life that I'm in, in this stage of life that I'm in, what am I looking for? What am I needing when it comes to community? Cause that's going to change based on the stage of life you're in.
Speaker: So right now I'm in my forties in this stage of my life. What I need in friendships are one, not a lot of them. I don't need a lot of friends. Like I have a lot of acquaintances and that's fine. But like,
Speaker: Close, close friends, I don't need a lot because of the pace of life that I'm in. and And the more friends that I have, the more I have to maintain those friendships. So I don't have time for maintenance of those friendships, which then is not a healthy relationship, right? So you got to think about, okay, in this stage of life that I'm in,
Speaker: What is it that I need when it comes to community? You may just need someone to, you know, go out with once in a while and you guys just kind of share a cup of coffee and that's enough, right?
Speaker: So if that's the case, what you do is you look at the people in your life, right? Look at the roster and then you decide, okay, who are the people in my roster that have shown me that they have the capacity to give me what I need.
Speaker: So if what I need is list just an ear and a cup of coffee, then okay, who's been a good listener in my life lately? Who do I feel comfortable with?
Speaker: Who do I feel like I have some things in common with that I can talk about certain things with and they'd get it? Right. So you literally go through like this process of elimination.
Speaker: And then once you look, you identify those one or two persons, then what you do is you then reach out to that person. Right. And then you say you you're intentional about building that relationship.
Speaker: Right. So I think part of what also gets in the way, Autumn, is that we're expecting other people to do that. Like we're expecting the other people in our lives. to be the ones to plan the things or to coordinate the things or what they should want to spend. Why didn't they invite me? i saw they went with a group of people over there. I wasn't a part of that.
Speaker: Why couldn't they invite me? And it's like, hold on. We need to stop assuming that people know what we need and we just need to communicate it. And if you need something, you need to be the one to initiate it.
Speaker: Right. So I think going back to personal boundaries, it's so if I had to summarize it, It's going back to, okay, what do I need in this stage of my life from others, from community, recognizing that that's going to change throughout your life course. It's going to be very different depending on how old you are and where you are.
Speaker: And then looking at the people in your life and identifying who are the people that have some of the capacity, at least some capacity to give me what I need.
Speaker: And then you go from there. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I also think too, like if you, if somebody has been like hurt, hurt, hurt repeatedly, you you look back at patterns that maybe is like, okay, what did I learn from those past scenarios? So when I'm establishing boundaries, I'm using wisdom to understand like what, like learn from, from the past and then, and then establishing healthier boundaries. Because to me, it would be like, if I, if I'm helping someone, know,
Speaker: make healthier choices from a health coach perspective. yeah And they're doing like the same wrong things that keep leading to other health issues. Like you have to figure out, okay, what are what are my boundaries? what what Where do I keep failing in this? And then having that as guidelines. But yeah, no, that's, that that's really good. We don't, yeah, we don't talk about boundaries enough. um I definitely am not going to get to everything I want to talk to you about. So we're going to wrap up with one. This is like, i I can talk about this kind stuff all day long. I do want to talk about or ask you one final question, please kind of wrap up because I think this is so, so important.
Speaker: I think a lot of people wrestle with and then after that, I would love for you to just of course, tell people where where where they could find you and and whatnot. um But i want to talk about healthy conflict for a second, because when you were talking about relational resilience, like the first two parts of that definition had to do with like repairing, I can't remember exactly, but what I know that I know is healthy conflict falls in the middle, right? It's not like,
Speaker: War on one extreme and then avoidance on the other extreme. There's this healthy middle where, you know, i remember being told by a therapist actually like one of the best signs for good relationships was a romantic relationship. or friendship is how can you navigate conflict well?
Speaker: Because you're talking about two different people. yeah so so so this is like, to me, super important. Just don't talk about it. So I would love for you to talk about what role conflict actually plays in strong relationships and how we can become people that know how to do this really well. And this is how we wrap this is going to be your final advice to all the listeners. You're good. um Okay.
Speaker: So
Speaker: without conflict, it really is hard to develop an authentic relationship. So I think conflict is a necessary ingredient in healthy relationships.
Speaker: And I tell my clients all the time, like, it's not about avoiding conflict. We will have conflict. Like, the we are two completely different individuals coming from different backgrounds.
Speaker: it's It's only a matter of time before we bump heads. And as we should, it's expected. So one, it's not about avoiding conflict. It is about how we navigate it how we work through it, and how we repair after conflict.
Speaker: I think that that is that is the key. So how do we do that? um Was that your question? How? How we work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. like Tips, yeah. Okay. So I think, first of all, first of all, it's taking a moment to understand your internal experience of what happened.
Speaker: So if you're having a conflict, let's say with a partner, with your husband or whoever, wife, and they done they did something that upset you, before reacting to it, I think it's important to take a moment, a pause to reflect on what about that thing was offensive to me?
Speaker: What about it was hurtful to me? And that process should take a while because, You know, you because you're essentially you essentially have to do the work of investigating this thing.
Speaker: You're responsible for that before you bring it back to that to that other person. So you could come and speak from a place of knowing. Right. Like, OK, I've done the work.
Speaker: I figured it out. This is what it is. Now let's work. this thing out. What happens a lot of time is we don't take that time to process our internal experience of what happened, our emotional experience. And so we're we're in the moment trying to figure it out with that person by going back and forth with them. And then that ends up causing more damage because we're very impulsive in that moment. it's It's fight or flight. Like we're not thinking rationally.
Speaker: So I think the first tip would be when you are offended, when there's a conflict, something's happened, take some time to really reflect on what is it that I am really upset about? What offended me about this? What hurt me about this?
Speaker: Once you have taken that time to figure that out, I think the next step is when you approach the person, well, first of all, let me not make an assumption.
Speaker: sir Conflict is Certain conflict will let you know if people are worth, are is this a relationship that is worth fighting for?
Speaker: There are some conflicts that are irreparable and that's okay. Right? Like there are some things where it's like, this is, this, that was, crossed the line completely.
Speaker: It has changed the way that I view you. It's just not going to work. So assuming that this is a conflict that you want to repair with a person, then what you do is you go, you go to that person and then you use I statements. You make it about your personal experience instead of accusing them of what they did wrong to you.
Speaker: So it might sound something like, Hey, Autumn, I was really hurt when, you know, you didn't get to come to my birthday party. I felt like you prioritized other things instead of me. And that really was harmful to me because I thought we were cooler than that or whatever, right? So you always lead with your feelings. I felt, I feel.
Speaker: And when you lead with your feelings, it makes it about you, your your experience and how you were impacted by that person. um And then in the end of that, I feel about whatever, then you might want to say what you need, right? So moving forward, Autumn, I would really appreciate it if maybe, you know, we set some, prioritize some time for the both of us because I miss you and I want to hang out with you, right?
Speaker: And so that's kind of like the the recipe that I feel about and here's what I need. And if you're able to have these conversations with people, right?
Speaker: I have found that those are way more restorative conversations versus, well, you didn't show up. And because you didn't do that, that must mean that you don't care about me and that, and it's like, hold on, that's not helpful.
Speaker: It's not conducive to relationships. So good relationships. So I think that that would be another tip that when in conflict, when you figured out what it is, you approach the person if the relationship is worth salvaging. And then you have these really hard, courageous conversations with leading with your feelings and your experience.
Speaker: It's a lot harder for people to argue with you when you are sharing how you were affected by it by that versus you making accusations. and For sure, that is so good.
Speaker: And then don't you think people... Oh yeah, you go, finish, finish. Yeah, one more tip is we have to also normalize conflict and we have to normalize that people aren't perfect, right? Like I think we forget we're human and just because a friendship might be wonderful and great in other areas doesn't mean that it's going to be like that about everything.
Speaker: Right, so I think it's important to resist the urge to put the friendship or the relationship in a good or bad box.
Speaker: We're not good or bad. It's all gray. It's all in the middle. on A lot gray space. I was just going to say the gray space. So it's it's like accepting accepting people are humans and we are flawed and we're going to make mistakes and we're going to disappoint you and um you're going to disappoint me and that's just how it is. And so it just helps, I think, to deflate this this idea that A good friendship means that there's never conflict.
Speaker: No. If anything, conflict strengthens your friendship, depending on how you navigate it. Right. But go ahead. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, one thing now we maybe think of something else. You know, I think this is one of the things that I feel like people misinterpret um the Bible the most on is so much of what God wants us to do is so many things that we think,
Speaker: our rules, let's not actually rule, God is pointing to our hearts posture, God is asking us to use wisdom. So I think it's because so much of life falls in this gray space. So that when you were first talking about pausing, stepping away, self-reflection, it's like, okay, what is my heart posture? And then how can I approach this with wisdom? Because wisdom tells me that someone else is gonna let their guard down and be more open to hearing what you have to say, put their defenses down. If you're sharing vulnerably your experience and not blaming. I always tell my kids, I hate the blame game because like yeah I can sense what this kid is feeling. I could sense what this kid is feeling. What they're saying to each other is not actually what they're feeling. And so what you just said about leading with these, like this,
Speaker: This is how I feel. Maybe the other person shares the same thing like that alone, I think, is just so valuable. And in how can we be better? Like everyone loves the idea of being wise, but we don't do the practices to be wise.
Speaker: We're like we want to be wise, are are we doing like the growth, the internal work to actually make the wise decisions. And this is, I think, where a lot of relational hurt comes in and people are getting burnt out is because we're we're not approaching to the right heart posture, the wisdom. And so you've shared so much fantastic wisdom with us today. um i would i would love to know if you have any like last words of things that you would like to share and also where can people find you and anything else that you know you want to leave us with.
Speaker: Yeah. h I could talk about this forever too, Autumn. This is just, I think it's so important. I think um any last words, let me see.
Speaker: If i I, want people to remember that relational health is mental health. um I want people to
Speaker: understand that interdependence is a need and it is what we need to be optimal humans versus it being a character flaw.
Speaker: Right. And I want people to know that it's not too late. You're not too grown or too old to start working on these relational skills and that you already have the people most likely you already have people in your life where that would be good candidates to start to explore deeper connections with.
Speaker: Right. So it's not like you have to go and, you know, go on a, field trip to find people. No, you most likely already have. If you take a moment to open up your eyes and really see who's in my environment, my church, my job, my family, my extended family, my friends, you could probably identify one or two and you don't need many.
Speaker: You don't need many. Like I said, like Jesus himself had the one, the two, right? Like it's really not ah It's not a quantity. It's a quality thing, the quality of friendship. So it's not too late. Look around and and see who who you might want to start investing more of that time with. And I think that um it'll be worth it.
Speaker: It'll be worth your while. um People can find me on, so I have my website. It's, um but I don't know if it's linked. Hold on. let me see if it's linked. I'll put it in the, whatever, in the show notes as well, but I didn't know if you wanted to tell people.
Speaker: So my website is SafeCouncil, LLC. So that's S-A-F-E-C-O-U-N-S-E-L. You can find me there. you i also have an Instagram and a Facebook page, same title, Safe Counsel.
Speaker: um And then there's direct messaging options through there if people want to personally reach out for whatever reason. um But yeah, that's that's where you can find me.
Speaker: Awesome. So, so, so good. It was so great chatting with you. And to all my listeners, thank you for um taking the time to invest in yourself by learning more about Align Living. And as you know, always talking about how we're interconnected and relationships is part of that. So until next time, have a great day.
Speaker: Thank you for tuning in to the Aligned Living Podcast. I'm Dr. Autumn, your guide on this journey to shalom or wholeness. Ready to embark on this journey of self-discovery and transformation?
Speaker: Head over to autumnswain.com to learn more and to dive deeper into the world of Aligned Living. Until next time, stay aligned.
