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EXIT Podcast Episode 22: Reputation Management (feat. Corey Vandenberg)
297 Plays3 years ago
Corey Vandenberg is an EXIT member and cofounder of Clixsy, an online marketing and reputation management agency based in Salt Lake City. We discuss:
- How to get started in digital marketing
- Offering a service versus offering a result
- How to recover from online reputational damage
- Exclusive reputation management tools for EXIT members
Recommended
Transcript
Corey's Digital Marketing Beginnings
00:00:18
Speaker
This is Dr. Bennett.
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm joined here by Corey Vandenberg.
00:00:21
Speaker
He's the co-founder of Clixi, which is an online marketing and reputation management agency based out of Salt Lake City.
00:00:27
Speaker
He's an exit member and by his own count, hasn't earned W-2 income since 1998.
00:00:32
Speaker
So we wanted to talk to him about how he got started in his line of work and the prospects for others who might be interested, as well as how he might advise someone who's been doxxed or otherwise dragged through the mud online.
00:00:42
Speaker
So welcome to the show, Corey.
00:00:43
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:00:44
Speaker
I appreciate it.
00:00:47
Speaker
I got started at digital marketing agency about 10 years ago in college.
00:00:50
Speaker
And at the time it was pretty wild west.
00:00:53
Speaker
Anybody could get into it.
00:00:55
Speaker
Companies would hire people on the basis of just a decent looking website because they had really no idea how to evaluate the service internally.
00:01:02
Speaker
So how has that market matured if it has matured?
Early Real Estate Ventures
00:01:08
Speaker
It's a very low barrier of entry.
00:01:10
Speaker
In fact, I remember how I got into this industry is kind of a weird,
00:01:16
Speaker
left-hand turn of events in my own life i i was um i was buying foreclosures and i was at the very forefront of that industry that that eventually turned uh into kind of a
00:01:36
Speaker
really controversial arena, it was doing foreclosure rescue, right?
00:01:44
Speaker
So in 1997, actually it was 1996, what we were doing at that time was buying defaulted paper.
00:01:53
Speaker
So we would go out and find second mortgages and just anything that was underwater
00:02:03
Speaker
And we would go to the original note holder and offer them a settlement and we would take over that paper and then we would work out arrangements directly with the homeowner.
00:02:15
Speaker
And a lot of times we had some really, really cool outcomes that helped people
00:02:20
Speaker
lower their overall debt exposure, stay in their home, get restructured in their, just everything that was going sideways for them and then eventually refinance and they were much better off.
00:02:33
Speaker
And of course that turned into a whole industry just fraught with scams and problems.
00:02:40
Speaker
But leading into the early 2000s,
00:02:45
Speaker
started to become a very crowded marketplace.
Adapting to Digital Marketing Changes
00:02:52
Speaker
And of course, this is also the advent of Google and social media.
00:03:00
Speaker
And at that time, we thought it was novel to start playing around with those avenues for finding leads and deals for ourselves.
00:03:08
Speaker
And so we just started kind of tinkering
00:03:13
Speaker
And I will say just as a side note that, you know, I was talking with TAC, Tactical Minivan, the other day about crypto.
00:03:25
Speaker
And just as a side note, the way I got into SEO is the same advice he gave me about crypto, which is that the best education is getting in there, getting your hands dirty and just kind of doing some of this stuff and messing around with it.
00:03:39
Speaker
And that's precisely how we
00:03:41
Speaker
initially got
Niche Marketing in Law Firms
00:03:42
Speaker
started.
00:03:42
Speaker
And I had a friend of mine who had a law firm.
00:03:47
Speaker
And because I was so involved with the foreclosure industry, I had a really intimate knowledge of the bankruptcy industry and how bankruptcy works and all the ins and outs of bankruptcy law, federal and state and so on and so forth.
00:04:01
Speaker
And so she contacted me knowing what I had been doing with Google and basically said,
00:04:07
Speaker
I'm moving from San Diego back to Utah.
00:04:09
Speaker
I have nothing.
00:04:10
Speaker
I'm starting over from scratch.
00:04:11
Speaker
Is there any way you can help me with this Google stuff?
00:04:14
Speaker
Help me build my business."
00:04:16
Speaker
And one situation like that became two, became four, became 10 over time.
00:04:23
Speaker
And it just sort of snowballed into this thing organically.
00:04:27
Speaker
And in 2008, when the real estate market crashed,
00:04:32
Speaker
you know i my my business partner and i were over leveraged uh we got just absolutely decimated and we were looking at this thing and saying like okay we got to pivot somehow where could we pivot potentially and we saw this opportunity where we were like gosh this google stuff that we've been doing for ourselves
00:04:57
Speaker
we could potentially actually do that for others on a service basis.
00:05:02
Speaker
And this bankruptcy lawyer that I mentioned, we had taken her from nothing to filing 20 chapter 13s a month, which if you're not familiar with sort of the mechanics and the economics of a law firm, that's a healthy, healthy practice for one attorney.
00:05:25
Speaker
Right, because they not only do they get paid on the front end, but they get a residual off of that case as the plaintiff makes payments every month.
00:05:34
Speaker
So, you know, within six months, she had both a healthy incoming practice as well as a nice pipeline of income.
00:05:44
Speaker
And we saw that as an opportunity to scale.
Specialization Advice for Marketers
00:05:47
Speaker
And so we started doing that and became known for growing law firms.
00:05:53
Speaker
And so that's the first piece of advice I would give somebody.
00:05:56
Speaker
Sorry, it's actually the second because I said, get in and tinker, right?
00:06:00
Speaker
So that would be my first advice.
00:06:02
Speaker
But my second is to specialize in a particular area of knowledge or emphasis, something either that you know a lot about or that you have a proximity to, right?
00:06:15
Speaker
Because the reality is that online marketing and SEO is pretty agnostic
00:06:23
Speaker
to the application.
00:06:24
Speaker
It doesn't matter if I'm doing this for a lawyer or a plumber or an e-commerce website.
00:06:30
Speaker
Now there are small differences and distinctions that somebody who knows this stuff could argue with me and say, well, what about this aspect or that aspect?
00:06:40
Speaker
But by and large, they're broadly applicable principles.
00:06:45
Speaker
And so the advantage of knowing something about a niche
00:06:50
Speaker
is more in your ability to attract new clientele because their presumption is going to be, this guy's the expert about my thing.
00:07:01
Speaker
So therefore, I'm going to go with him over some generalist.
00:07:06
Speaker
So it's more of a branding thing rather than it being sort of like you actually know something in particular.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, because I was going to ask, you explained how you got in, but I was wondering why you stayed in that lane.
00:07:20
Speaker
And that's why, because we got a reputation.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's branding.
00:07:24
Speaker
And so, you know, there's been a lot of growth in our company just simply by being known as, you know, I'm using air quotes, but like lawyer guys, right?
00:07:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:38
Speaker
And I'm not going to pretend that there aren't some benefits to using a specialist, right?
00:07:42
Speaker
Because I do speak their language.
00:07:44
Speaker
I know the ins and outs of growing a law practice.
00:07:48
Speaker
So I can speak to a lot of the problems that they experience.
00:07:53
Speaker
But again, I think by and large, that just furthers my point that
00:07:57
Speaker
that they love to know that you know their business as opposed to somebody who they're going to have to teach nuance to, right?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:07
Speaker
I mean, I imagine that in terms of your ad buy, having some grip on the psychology of why somebody looks for that particular product has got to help.
00:08:19
Speaker
And I wanted to ask you also, when I started in that business,
00:08:26
Speaker
it was still kind of adversarial with the search
Ethical SEO Practices
00:08:30
Speaker
engine.
00:08:30
Speaker
It was, it was very much like trying to do things outside of their, their ecosystem to game the results.
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Speaker
And, and in the course of my time there, it evolved to where like, basically people were saying the algorithms are too good.
00:08:46
Speaker
We need to just focus on like working within their system, doing the ad by learning to use kind of their proprietary
00:08:54
Speaker
like marketing and analytics tools.
00:08:56
Speaker
And, and I wonder, is that your experience or is there still a lot that you can do kind of external to like AdWords and.
00:09:07
Speaker
Well, yeah, I'll, so I'll approach this from a couple of different angles.
00:09:11
Speaker
First, I'll tell you what I tell clients.
00:09:15
Speaker
Um, and I, I like to answer the question about, um,
00:09:21
Speaker
What you brought up is oftentimes referred to as like white hat tactics versus black hat tactics.
00:09:28
Speaker
And then there's gray areas in between, right?
00:09:33
Speaker
What I often tell clients is that, especially in a really competitive market like personal injury, we need every advantage we can gain.
00:09:45
Speaker
And so I share with them my personal ethics in how I approach those types of tactics.
00:09:52
Speaker
And what I tell them is that I'm much like a doctor in the sense that my ethic is to first do no harm to the client.
00:10:02
Speaker
I don't care whatsoever about Google so long as I can maintain my own.
00:10:09
Speaker
that premise.
00:10:11
Speaker
So will I explore black hat and gray hat tactics?
00:10:16
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:10:17
Speaker
Any SEO worth his weight should.
00:10:20
Speaker
But I typically do it in a very controlled environment.
00:10:26
Speaker
so that I can explore, see why it's working, find out if there's some mechanism that is less of an exploit that could potentially be done in a white hat or a gray hat manner, and then apply it in the real world once I know that I can maintain my ethic.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, and this type of stuff that I was doing was very much like...
00:10:54
Speaker
I was writing a lot of blog posts with embedded links, just link building.
00:10:58
Speaker
And that started to become...
00:11:05
Speaker
Meaning like guest posts?
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:10
Speaker
So is that the kind of thing that you're referring to as black hat or is that just sort of standard procedure?
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
No, no.
00:11:19
Speaker
That's on the very mild end of what somebody might consider black hat.
00:11:23
Speaker
I've got some great stories.
00:11:25
Speaker
You know, people...
00:11:27
Speaker
Obviously, there's a lot of discussion around Black Hat.
00:11:32
Speaker
It's controversial.
00:11:34
Speaker
But I remember one of my really close friends was telling me about a conference that he attended.
00:11:44
Speaker
This was like 2006 or 2007.
00:11:46
Speaker
It was right around the same time that Google released the Google Maps product.
00:11:53
Speaker
And it used to be called Google Places back then.
00:11:57
Speaker
And he was in this conference and the guys from Google at that time were there and they were telling these stories about how they actually had like a war room
00:12:08
Speaker
with monitors set up, big televisions set up so that they could monitor live real-time changes that were occurring on certain websites that they had sort of identified as having a proclivity towards black hat tactics.
00:12:27
Speaker
And they were like, in real time, just, they talked about loving the ingenuity of these guys and they would sit and watch them and use them as like a,
00:12:38
Speaker
almost like a QC that's like they would get ideas and be like, oh my gosh, that's smart.
00:12:43
Speaker
And so they put up one example and they talked about how this guy, they're like, this guy is super clever.
00:12:51
Speaker
It was one of the first instances of them referring to white text on a white background.
00:12:59
Speaker
And it was my buddy who's sitting there in the audience and they have his site up there as an example.
00:13:06
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:13:06
Speaker
I mean,
00:13:08
Speaker
We've experimented with everything from that to mobile phones hooked up to servers that basically emulate human behavior.
00:13:24
Speaker
right so like we've we've tried all kinds of things just to see what they do and to what extent they can be utilized to get a better result um so yeah i i think that what i would i would suggest most people probably just don't ever go near that stuff because that takes
00:13:45
Speaker
not only years of experience, but also just sort of like being in the right time in the right place and having the right relationships to otherwise, I think that you're much better off focusing.
00:13:58
Speaker
If I was going to get into marketing today, the first thing I would encourage someone to do is focus on what I call evergreen marketing skills, right?
00:14:08
Speaker
So things like understanding persuasion, copywriting,
00:14:14
Speaker
Those are never going to go out of style, no matter what the algorithms do, right?
00:14:20
Speaker
Those are always going to be of use and of value.
00:14:23
Speaker
So from a persuasion perspective, I know there's a lot of technical books that people could read about how to use AdWords, how to do SEO, but for these evergreen like principles and the art of persuasion and marketing, are there like, is there like a favorite book list that you have that you recommend to people?
Recommended Marketing Literature
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, one of my all-time favorites, and this is a big classic that a lot of people will reference, is called Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz.
00:14:50
Speaker
And in it, he talks about a principle called the stages of awareness.
00:14:55
Speaker
And it's one of my favorite things because it's so broadly applicable.
00:14:58
Speaker
When you understand the stages somebody goes through from being completely unaware of a particular problem to being problem aware,
00:15:08
Speaker
And then solution aware.
00:15:10
Speaker
And then ultimately they get to the greatest stage where, you know, you might say like, oh, I'm, I need a Tesla or I need blue blockers or, you know, you get to, you can move them through that stage using the principles that he teaches in that book.
00:15:29
Speaker
there's another one that I mistakenly referred to as being Eugene Schwartz, but it's actually called Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins.
00:15:37
Speaker
Both of these gentlemen are the early pioneers of advertising.
00:15:43
Speaker
If you ever watched the show Mad Men, these guys are the mad men.
00:15:47
Speaker
They're the real guys who wrote advertising.
00:15:52
Speaker
In the days when it was far more difficult because there was no checking out online, it was like,
00:15:57
Speaker
mail in like they had to convince somebody to put money in the mail and then wait days or weeks before they got the thing they were ordering so you can imagine the level of ability they had had to be just absolutely top tier compared to um you know amazon with its one click checkout right which makes impulse buying much easier right
00:16:25
Speaker
So those are two that are great.
00:16:27
Speaker
On the concept of persuasion, I really like a book called Influence by Robert Cialdini.
00:16:33
Speaker
He's a professor out of Arizona, and he takes and kind of highlights some different aspects of why humans are influenced.
00:16:47
Speaker
And he talks about several different things, such as...
00:16:52
Speaker
urgency, scarcity.
00:16:55
Speaker
He talks about liking, right?
00:16:58
Speaker
So making yourself likable and having them like you.
00:17:02
Speaker
He talks about having a reason why.
00:17:04
Speaker
It was in each of the different chapters, he cites studies that were done so that there's actual evidence and data behind some of the claims that he's making.
00:17:14
Speaker
You know, he shows an example of students in a cafeteria where there was a line for a
00:17:21
Speaker
a copy machine and they tested out going up and asking if you could step in line because and giving no reason at all and when you had a reason and even if it was a stupid reason like because I'm late for my appointment there was a significantly higher amount of people who were willing to let you cut in line
00:17:45
Speaker
rather than the people who didn't have a reason, right?
00:17:48
Speaker
So that's just one example.
00:17:51
Speaker
Urgency, scarcity, and there's several others.
00:17:54
Speaker
I can't, off the top of my head, I don't recall them, but Influence by Robert Cialdini is a great book on the topic.
00:18:01
Speaker
Awesome.
00:18:03
Speaker
And then if you're in sales, if you're looking at sales and marketing yourself, I think that Chet Holmes' book, The Ultimate Sales Machine, is another one that,
00:18:15
Speaker
that I think is a, is an absolute classic and a must read.
00:18:19
Speaker
Um, and then, sorry, I'm, I've got like a whole wall of these books, so I could probably go on for, I could probably go on for too long about it, but I, I'm going to add in, um, two more that I think are just criminally underrated.
00:18:39
Speaker
One is you can't teach it.
00:18:41
Speaker
You can't teach a kid to ride a bike, uh, at a seminar.
00:18:45
Speaker
And that sounds like a really weird title, but it is one of the best books on sales and marketing I've ever read.
00:18:54
Speaker
And the other is called Straight Line Persuasion.
00:18:59
Speaker
I think that both of those just haven't really caught on in the mainstream.
00:19:05
Speaker
They don't have the notoriety of a seven habits, but man, those are great.
00:19:13
Speaker
Well, I've just gone from being a corporate drone where I was miles away from any kind of customer to being in direct contact with people who I would like to participate in my group.
00:19:30
Speaker
So I'm going to go take that reading list home for myself.
00:19:35
Speaker
So thanks very much.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, you're welcome.
Scalable Marketing Solutions
00:19:39
Speaker
So if you were trying to get in the game today,
00:19:42
Speaker
without sort of the advantages of maybe the first mover stuff going on in the early days of online marketing?
00:19:50
Speaker
Like if you had to jump in now, what would be like step one?
00:19:57
Speaker
So I think one of the big areas, this is one of those hard learned lessons, is that early on, we tried to be everything to everybody and take on just
00:20:10
Speaker
massive, massive projects that were very, very complex.
00:20:16
Speaker
And I think, you know, to an extent, we can do complex stuff because we did complex stuff.
00:20:23
Speaker
So we've learned how to systematize around some of those things.
00:20:26
Speaker
But if I had to start over today, I would prefer to not have to walk through that minefield and figure all that stuff out.
00:20:33
Speaker
And instead, I would look to build
00:20:36
Speaker
around what I call scalable services.
00:20:39
Speaker
So an example of a scalable service might be something like birthday
00:20:50
Speaker
birthday text message lists for restaurants where you have a very repeatable deliverable that you are great at delivering and it might be smaller ticket.
00:21:04
Speaker
You know, that's the downside, I suppose.
00:21:06
Speaker
Somebody might say, well, I can only charge $1.99 a month for that.
00:21:10
Speaker
And that's true that they are smaller ticket items.
00:21:15
Speaker
But...
00:21:16
Speaker
you can deliver many more of them with much less overhead.
00:21:21
Speaker
Right.
00:21:21
Speaker
So then once you've got your process figured out, you can focus far more on just marketing yourself, building a pipeline and getting more and more volume in to scale.
00:21:32
Speaker
Right.
00:21:33
Speaker
Once you've got that stream, it's, it's effectively fire and forget.
00:21:38
Speaker
Like it's just, uh, you just sort of cash the checks at that point.
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:44
Speaker
So there's been a lot of change in the, we'll call it the digital agency space.
00:21:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:53
Speaker
And where I think the trend right now is headed is around what some people are kind of referring to as SaaS based agencies or SaaS meaning software as a surface.
00:22:05
Speaker
Right.
00:22:06
Speaker
And what these, and so I would say probably at the, at the forefront of that is a platform called high level.
00:22:14
Speaker
And I don't have my affiliate link or anything like that.
00:22:19
Speaker
Although they do have a really robust affiliate program.
00:22:25
Speaker
So that's another way that somebody could do really well.
00:22:29
Speaker
They give you half of the revenue from the signup for life.
00:22:36
Speaker
So it's a pretty killer deal.
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:39
Speaker
But High Level, I think their web address is gohighlevel.com.
00:22:46
Speaker
And what it is, is it's a marketing automation platform.
00:22:54
Speaker
And it's not quite as sophisticated as something like Keep, formerly known as Infusionsoft.
00:23:02
Speaker
But I think that it's close.
00:23:05
Speaker
And I think that it's good enough that it can be utilized by a lot of businesses from very small to medium sized.
00:23:13
Speaker
Maybe it's not the best fit for enterprise, but I think somebody who just starting out, you're most likely going to be selling to small and medium-sized enterprises anyways.
00:23:24
Speaker
And what I would do is I would sell packaged, scalable services based on high level, if it were me, starting over.
00:23:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:35
Speaker
So you sort of work within that platform to deliver the services?
00:23:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yep, that's right.
00:23:42
Speaker
And you have unlimited sub-accounts that you can set up.
00:23:46
Speaker
So once you've signed up for yours, you could have an unlimited number of clients with their own accounts signed up underneath you.
00:23:56
Speaker
And it doesn't necessarily cost you any more.
00:24:02
Speaker
So the only thing that they would have to pay for is usage.
00:24:05
Speaker
So every time you set up an account, you have to tie into other platforms,
00:24:11
Speaker
to be able to send out emails and texts.
00:24:13
Speaker
So you're signing up for a service called Twilio and you're signing up for something like say Mailgun to be able to whitelist and send out emails, but they pay for their own usage and you don't have any additional overhead for putting them on the high level platform.
00:24:32
Speaker
Got it.
00:24:33
Speaker
And so then what I would, if it were me building one of those types of agencies around something like high level,
00:24:40
Speaker
What I would do is I would find a particular niche that I had a lot of knowledge about.
00:24:47
Speaker
So for me, let's say bankruptcy law, right?
00:24:50
Speaker
Because I really understand that world.
00:24:53
Speaker
And what I would do is I would create a bunch of templated emails, text messages, ringless voicemail, and I would set up automated sequences based on the
00:25:09
Speaker
a life cycle of client, right?
00:25:11
Speaker
So I would have like an onboarding campaign and I would have a campaign for somebody who's already an existing client.
00:25:18
Speaker
And I would have one for somebody whose bankruptcy is, and I would think about the different stages that somebody goes through being a bankruptcy client.
00:25:28
Speaker
And I would design automated communications for those different stages.
00:25:34
Speaker
And then I would sell that to bankruptcy lawyers as a sort of a done for you or a done with you type of a product.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:45
Speaker
I mean, so I was thinking about how the market has matured and I was definitely framing that as a negative because it might be harder to break in, but it almost sounds like they've given you some, they've given a novice digital marketer
00:26:03
Speaker
some training wheels or like a powered exoskeleton so they can deliver a lot more value than maybe someone just starting from nothing could have delivered 10 years ago.
Focus on Results, Not Just Activity
00:26:16
Speaker
That's pretty cool.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I think too, it would help to make the distinction between activities and results, right?
00:26:27
Speaker
So lower tiered products, things that are more scalable and repeatable to a certain degree, what you're doing is you're fulfilling activity.
00:26:36
Speaker
So there are certain things that you can just sort of set an expectation that these are just things that need to occur.
00:26:44
Speaker
You need to have a Facebook page so that people can see that you're reachable, that you're a real company, that you have legitimate...
00:26:51
Speaker
credentials and so on and so forth.
00:26:54
Speaker
But that doesn't put on your shoulders, especially at some low tier product price like 200 bucks a month, that doesn't put on your shoulders the responsibility to grow the business.
00:27:06
Speaker
you're just simply fulfilling a need.
00:27:09
Speaker
Whereas some of the types of clients that we take on, like for example, Polkadot, the cryptocurrency, which is actually, that's not the name of the company, it's actually Parity Technologies.
00:27:26
Speaker
um, you know, they expect certain specific results and that's why they pay bigger tier prices, right?
00:27:33
Speaker
They expect to see actual growth because of what we're doing.
00:27:37
Speaker
And I think starting out, the last thing you want to try to do is be the guy who can say, yeah, we're going to deliver a certain amount of growth to your business.
00:27:47
Speaker
That's a, yeah, that's a tall order.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
That,
00:27:52
Speaker
I hadn't thought of that.
00:27:53
Speaker
There's, there's definitely different ways to quantify your offering.
00:27:57
Speaker
And it's much easier to say, I will do these specific things agnostic of how it cashes out for the client.
00:28:05
Speaker
Um, just because I know you need them versus yeah.
00:28:08
Speaker
Uh, this, this almost, um, predictive, like I, you know,
00:28:14
Speaker
I'm gonna make it rain for you kind of approach.
00:28:17
Speaker
Which you can do if you're a pro, but it's harder.
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, like if you go sign up for CallRail, right, which is a call tracking company, CallRail says, I'm gonna give you call tracking phone numbers so that you can track your ROI, but they don't say, I'm gonna give you ROI.
00:28:33
Speaker
They just say, we'll help you uncover it if it's there, right?
00:28:38
Speaker
Or see to what extent it's not there.
00:28:41
Speaker
Um, because they're just simply fulfilling a specific need that you have.
00:28:45
Speaker
And I think that a beginning, uh, agency or a marketer or somebody who's looking to fulfill those things should take a page out of that book and understand that, that you're probably not at a, at a point and may not be for a year or two to where you could, um, in good faith, tell somebody that you can deliver financial growth.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:10
Speaker
I, uh,
00:29:11
Speaker
I think that's going to be interesting.
00:29:12
Speaker
We have a handful of guys who are in this space and I think they're going to find that approach really, really useful and interesting.
00:29:21
Speaker
So as far as beyond gohighlevel.com, are there any other major overheads in terms of software subscriptions that make this hard to scale?
00:29:31
Speaker
Or is it something where you can just sort of learn some relevant skills to provide the services and then pick up a client and get going?
00:29:42
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of tools out there and I suppose it's all going to be circumstantial based on how much you need them or to what extent there's free or low cost options.
00:29:55
Speaker
You know, we have a pretty significant overhead with software, but that comes with having a lot of clientele and the need for more enterprise type solutions.
00:30:09
Speaker
So,
00:30:10
Speaker
You know, we're using tools like, and people who are in the industry are going to be familiar with some of these, but like there's one called SEMrush, SEMrush is how other people refer to it.
00:30:21
Speaker
But we utilize that for doing a lot of SEO tracking and research.
00:30:27
Speaker
We use another one called Ahrefs, which is sort of a reference to like backlinks and nomenclature involved in building backlinks and such.
00:30:41
Speaker
But I guess I don't know quite how to answer the question of what tools you would need because it would depend a little bit on the direction you chose.
00:30:52
Speaker
So, you know, if somebody wanted to get into, say, for example, doing more like social media stuff, there's probably a lot lower overhead needed there because you can do a lot of that just merely by helping people create content.
00:31:08
Speaker
So you might need...
00:31:10
Speaker
You might need something like Canva, which I think Canva has like a free, a free, uh, initial subscription.
00:31:19
Speaker
So yeah, I don't know.
00:31:21
Speaker
I mean, I think most of marketing is going to come down to, um, understanding a lot of that persuasion and the ability to communicate.
00:31:30
Speaker
And ultimately that's what it is.
00:31:32
Speaker
It's a form of communication.
00:31:34
Speaker
Right.
00:31:35
Speaker
So.
00:31:36
Speaker
The strategy side of things, I think, is one of those areas that's going to take a lot longer to acquire the skills.
00:31:44
Speaker
But the ability to just fulfill on certain areas, I suppose, yeah, there are ways you could get into it with low overhead.
00:31:54
Speaker
Account creation, account publishing content.
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, I wanted to ask you, I think maybe people who are my age and younger
00:32:07
Speaker
may think of like account creation as something that everybody knows how to do.
00:32:13
Speaker
And so it may not occur to them that that's a service that they could provide.
00:32:16
Speaker
Is that your experience where people are willing to pay someone to just set up their different social media accounts?
00:32:23
Speaker
Dude, if you were to go, so here's a way you could get started with relatively low overhead.
00:32:30
Speaker
And this answers your question too, is you can go to sites like fiverr.com
00:32:35
Speaker
and upwork.com and just get a taste of what's out there.
00:32:42
Speaker
Look at what others are offering.
00:32:44
Speaker
There's hundreds of thousands of those types of gigs, right?
00:32:49
Speaker
Where that's what people are offering.
00:32:50
Speaker
And the crazy thing is even outside of marketing, I had my brother-in-law who's in HR and he was asking me, he was like, holy cow, have you heard of this site called Upwork?
00:33:04
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, I've been hiring people off Upwork for a decade now, back when it was called Odesk.
00:33:11
Speaker
So yeah, I'm very familiar with it.
00:33:13
Speaker
And he was like, dude, I've been getting gigs where people just want me to do HR stuff.
00:33:20
Speaker
And it's not even marketing things.
00:33:21
Speaker
There's all kinds of one-off type of opportunities that you can sort of dabble until you get your footing and figure out a direction.
00:33:33
Speaker
But yeah, account creation is definitely a thing people hire for because it's tedious and monotonous and frustrating.
00:33:42
Speaker
So you could easily design like a Google form that asks the questions that you need in order to be able to create a profile or some kind of an account for somebody.
00:33:55
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, I will say that that might be...
00:34:02
Speaker
a tough one to do profitably just because I know there's a lot of that type of gig work that's being done by overseas workers.
00:34:11
Speaker
And so it's done at a very low, a little low cost, but it's, it does exist.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
So I I'd like to, I'd like to move into the reputation management space.
Celebrity Reputation Management
00:34:27
Speaker
Um, it sounds like,
00:34:30
Speaker
Well, a lot of the job, it sounds like, is technical from an analytics perspective and SEO.
00:34:37
Speaker
There's a lot of nuts and bolts there.
00:34:39
Speaker
But with reputation management for celebrities, you really can't shout down bad news.
00:34:46
Speaker
So it's got to be much more about, I imagine, about message crafting and more like art than science.
00:34:52
Speaker
So tell me about how you approach that.
00:34:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely a mixture of art and science.
00:35:01
Speaker
What we've found is in the celebrity and executive space, dealing with famous executives and really well-known business people, you're right.
00:35:14
Speaker
It's not like lesser known individuals like us where we can sort of publish our way out of the problem.
00:35:27
Speaker
If we simply know
00:35:30
Speaker
the right aspects of technical SEO and we crank out enough content most of the time with just a little bit of knowledge and know how you can kind of just overcome that stuff with volume.
00:35:45
Speaker
And that's a lot harder to do when the problem that you're trying to overcome is on the front page of the New York Times or the New York Post or the Wall Street Journal.
00:35:56
Speaker
So at that point, it does become
00:36:00
Speaker
a bit of there's almost like a confluence of the world of pr and seo where you have to you have to be able to get the narrative you want pushed out there and then do all that other stuff and sometimes you have to get really creative um you know we've done things like um we've created
00:36:27
Speaker
blogs that look like they're some fan, some really passionate fan and create just written some content that makes it look like they're just really, really obsessed with this person.
00:36:48
Speaker
And because a lot of times what comes with that territory is they want the problem gone, but they don't want it to look like they want the problem gone.
00:36:57
Speaker
Right.
00:36:58
Speaker
So you have to be sometimes very discreet in how you're handling those types of things.
00:37:06
Speaker
So, you know, a typical rep management campaign is going to start out looking like doing sort of an assessment of the landscape.
00:37:16
Speaker
So you want to pull down a spreadsheet of what are my antagonistic URLs?
00:37:24
Speaker
What am I up against?
00:37:26
Speaker
So you would put those into a spreadsheet so that you can look at them.
00:37:30
Speaker
And some of the things, these are a little bit technical stuff from an SEO standpoint, but you're gonna wanna look at like the strength of the domains that you're up against.
00:37:40
Speaker
You wanna know what does the backlink profile look like?
00:37:43
Speaker
So you wanna know how many other sites are out there linking to this thing and how authoritative are they?
00:37:49
Speaker
Then you put together a plan to say, okay,
00:37:55
Speaker
what can I do to make both short, medium, and long-term gains?
00:38:03
Speaker
So short-term gains for anybody, this is famous or otherwise, short-term gains are always going to, or typically are going to come from profiles that, because those are gonna carry the most relevance to you as an individual, right?
00:38:19
Speaker
So something like a Facebook account, a Twitter account, a LinkedIn profile,
00:38:25
Speaker
Those are very, very high authority domains that are going to carry extremely high relevance to you and your name.
00:38:34
Speaker
And so the way this typically works is almost like a triage.
00:38:39
Speaker
Nobody knows what the end result's going to look like, but we're going to start with the lowest hanging fruit first, see how the landscape shakes out, move to the next tier of complexity until we've exhausted all of the easy opportunities.
00:38:56
Speaker
If they're not the ones showing up on the first page, then we're going to move to some of the more complex stuff like inventing fan blogs and crazy stuff like that.
00:39:06
Speaker
So
00:39:09
Speaker
know uh and then of course if it's a if it's somebody who's genuinely famous they're going to have pr people they're going to have contacts with um publishers and so then what you start doing is you start collaborating with their pr company and sculpting a narrative figuring out is this something we need to spin or is this something we need to ignore and how do we want to how do we want to approach that and then
00:39:39
Speaker
Once you've got kind of all those pieces working in harmony, you've optimized all of your available profiles and sites that you have access to.
00:39:51
Speaker
You've got publishing going on.
00:39:53
Speaker
Then it really comes down to the age-old SEO stuff where you're obtaining high-authority backlinks and to the extent that you can control it, trying to get...
00:40:08
Speaker
names utilized in the right way.
00:40:10
Speaker
So you want names in the URL, names in the titles of the page.
00:40:18
Speaker
We refer to them as H1s, H2s, which is just a type of formatting on a page.
00:40:23
Speaker
The headings.
00:40:25
Speaker
The headings, yes, right.
00:40:26
Speaker
So if you can get the name that you're trying to optimize for in the URL and in the headings, you're going to have a better chance.
00:40:33
Speaker
And then as you're acquiring backlinks, the same thing's going to apply there.
00:40:39
Speaker
anchor text and name relevance from the page that you're sending the link from.
00:40:47
Speaker
You know, and over time it just becomes sort of a war of attrition.
00:40:53
Speaker
You're doing all these things while at the same time hoping that the intensity dies down around this topic, hoping that it becomes less relevant over time for you and your name.
00:41:07
Speaker
hoping that the page in question loses backlinks.
00:41:12
Speaker
That's another thing that we can do is when it's somebody who can afford having a team like us behind them, we'll do work behind the scenes to try to get links taken down to the pages in question.
00:41:29
Speaker
So we'll try to play offense and defense at the same time.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker
I was going to ask you if there were tools to actually expunge or remove unfavorable content or if it was just about flooding the zone.
00:41:44
Speaker
There are, and they don't always work because sometimes Google isn't just going to take something down just because.
00:41:52
Speaker
So sometimes you have to find specific cause and argue your case to them.
00:41:59
Speaker
Maybe it's they've broken some law.
00:42:04
Speaker
In that case, yes.
00:42:06
Speaker
If they've broken some law, then you can definitely appeal to Google to try to get something removed.
00:42:11
Speaker
In the EU, there are what's called right to be forgotten laws.
00:42:18
Speaker
And so there are certain things that fall under like privacy statutes that allow you to potentially get something removed if it's in the EU.
00:42:31
Speaker
That doesn't work here in the US, of course.
00:42:35
Speaker
So I guess to be more specific and applicable to somebody who isn't a celebrity with just endless resources to throw at a problem like this, if you've been doxxed or somehow the canceled crowd's coming after you, I would say that you want to do two things after you've assessed the landscape like I described.
Personal Online Profile Optimization
00:42:59
Speaker
And that is you want to try to...
00:43:04
Speaker
optimize as many of the low-hanging fruit that I described like your Facebook your Twitter so on and so forth to get those things to rank for your name and then I would I would consider and it's going to be somewhat circumstantial so this won't apply to everybody but like if it were me what I would probably do is I would start looking at ways in which I could potentially establish myself as an authority in something
00:43:32
Speaker
ideally something that I'm actually an authority in.
00:43:35
Speaker
But the reason that I would want to be doing that is because it gives me a reason to talk on those different platforms.
00:43:43
Speaker
And it gives me the ability to influence a particular aspect of Google that isn't always available.
00:43:52
Speaker
It's not that it's not available, but it's not always active for those of us who aren't celebrities and really well-known individuals.
00:44:00
Speaker
And so...
00:44:02
Speaker
What I'm talking about is what are called search result features or search engine features.
00:44:09
Speaker
So things like the carousel that has images or the carousel that has social media posts or videos.
00:44:18
Speaker
And then there's another one that oftentimes, if you look up a celebrity's name, you'll oftentimes see a little box to the right-hand side
00:44:29
Speaker
of the search results and that's referred to as the knowledge graph, Google knowledge graph.
00:44:35
Speaker
And that's sort of like a secondary layer of information that Google is building about you or about whatever thing that you happen to be searching.
00:44:48
Speaker
And so building out your knowledge graph and getting that little box to trigger on the right hand side
00:44:57
Speaker
starts to build an insulation around your image and your reputation that allows you to have a bit more control and ability.
00:45:07
Speaker
Whereas when you lack a knowledge graph, you're a bit more susceptible because what it means in SEO parlance is that Google doesn't recognize you as a specific entity inside of its database.
00:45:24
Speaker
Right.
00:45:24
Speaker
So it knows it knows who Elon Musk is.
00:45:27
Speaker
It knows who.
00:45:30
Speaker
And I don't mean to refer to it like with.
00:45:33
Speaker
As a person, but the AI
00:45:36
Speaker
understands this entity called Elon Musk.
00:45:40
Speaker
Right.
00:45:40
Speaker
It's not just a collection of keywords.
00:45:43
Speaker
That's right.
00:45:44
Speaker
There's very specific context to it.
00:45:48
Speaker
And so it'll link up all those things.
00:45:50
Speaker
It'll link to his Twitter account and to Tesla as a company.
00:45:55
Speaker
And all of those things will be referenced in that little box on the right hand side of the search engine.
00:46:01
Speaker
you can eventually get one of those as well, but it requires sort of acting like a unique entity.
00:46:09
Speaker
So, you know, maybe you publish an ebook, put it on Kindle, you know, maybe building out a YouTube channel and just starting to build out an expertise in a particular area will allow you to optimize for Google's knowledge graph,
00:46:29
Speaker
and eventually gain some more control over your search results for your own name.
00:46:39
Speaker
So the hardest case that I'm aware of personally was a friend of mine who was a state prosecutor with a pretty distinctive name, first and last.
00:46:50
Speaker
And you can go to like page 10 of Google, and it's still news articles about his doxing.
00:46:58
Speaker
Is it possible to clean something like that up?
00:47:00
Speaker
Or are you just better off kind of looking for a boss who's cool with your history?
00:47:05
Speaker
That's a good question.
00:47:11
Speaker
I hate to say it depends because that's always the standard answer that a lot of people say, but you know, it kind of comes back to that assessment that I talked about earlier.
00:47:21
Speaker
Like it's hard to know how,
00:47:26
Speaker
how much you could remedy a situation without understanding the various sites that are ranking for their name.
00:47:34
Speaker
So you'd have to almost approach it on a case-by-case basis.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:41
Speaker
It's virtually all news sites.
00:47:43
Speaker
It's like the Salt Lake Tribune, the Guardian, the Montana, whatever.
00:47:51
Speaker
So it's like that tier of content.
00:47:53
Speaker
Like, is it possible to...
00:47:55
Speaker
bump those out of the way or are those pretty hard to crack?
00:48:00
Speaker
Anything's possible.
00:48:01
Speaker
It's, it's, it's the, the constraints are time and resource, right?
00:48:06
Speaker
So you can always, there's nothing, there's nothing that's immovable.
00:48:11
Speaker
Um, you know, one of the most creative situations that I saw, um, in, in one of these circumstances was, was somebody who was not super famous and they had an issue.
00:48:22
Speaker
you know what they did is they started to go out and re I'm going to say brand, but brands, maybe not quite the right word, but they used, they went out and changed everything to use a slightly different formulation of their name.
00:48:36
Speaker
So they changed it to like, to have junior and, you know, some other prefixes and suffixes and things like that.
00:48:45
Speaker
And they, they made sure to use that almost like a,
00:48:50
Speaker
you know, like Thomas S. Monson type of a thing, right?
00:48:54
Speaker
They went from being called Tom Monson.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:48:59
Speaker
And so by mixing that up and sort of using it throughout all your own media and sort of reinforcing it over time, that's what more and more people searched for.
00:49:13
Speaker
So they avoided the problem rather than fixed the problem.
00:49:16
Speaker
And that was, I think, a pretty clever solution.
00:49:21
Speaker
That is cool.
00:49:23
Speaker
So this generation has their whole life archived online.
00:49:28
Speaker
Basically anybody younger than me.
00:49:31
Speaker
I was just young enough that I mostly dodged that bullet.
00:49:34
Speaker
A high school friend reached out to me recently and sent me a link to my old live journal from high school, which I thought was dead and buried.
00:49:41
Speaker
And it was, it was almost as bad as getting doxxed in terms of like my visceral, like physical response to that information.
00:49:48
Speaker
And I, I frantically, I go to, um, I go to their website and I realized that it's, it's attached to an email that no longer exists.
00:49:58
Speaker
And so there's no way for me to get it taken down.
00:49:59
Speaker
I'm like, oh my gosh, it's nothing, nothing horrible, but just sort of like awkward, embarrassing teenager blog.
00:50:07
Speaker
Um, so what do you tell?
00:50:11
Speaker
What would you tell your kids about how to handle their online presence right now?
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:21
Speaker
I mean, with my own kids, we've definitely restricted their access to a lot of social media because I've just seen it be so difficult and problematic for so many people.
00:50:38
Speaker
um you know we've also to the extent we've given them some access you know we've always given them the customary uh precautions of of don't don't speak to or connect with people you don't know don't be don't be giving out a lot of the personal identical identifying information um we we have really really candid conversations with them but
00:51:08
Speaker
With the younger generation, I mean, a lot of, I don't know that there's technical answers as much as, as much as behavioral answers.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:20
Speaker
I don't know.
00:51:20
Speaker
I mean, I hope, I don't really know what this looks like necessarily, but I do hope that there's advances and changes coming with a lot of the
00:51:35
Speaker
the movement that we have, that we're seeing right now around crypto and privacy and I'm hoping that some of these issues are going to resolve themselves.
00:51:47
Speaker
It seems like that oftentimes happens with a lot of technology where the thing that we're all having high, high anxiety over sort of innovates its way out.
Parenting in the Digital Age
00:51:59
Speaker
And I'm hoping that occurs, but I don't know.
00:52:05
Speaker
I don't have a, I don't have a great answer for it.
00:52:10
Speaker
It's so challenging because like a lot of it is just like, you know, you can tell your kids to be smart, but like kids just aren't smart and you know, like they're like, they're just, they're not going to make like the best decisions at that age with this, with this like really permanent.
00:52:27
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:52:29
Speaker
Technology that's, that's, that's a huge challenge.
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the thing I've always said is that you can't childproof the world.
00:52:39
Speaker
And so the best thing you can do is worldproof your child.
00:52:45
Speaker
Like you've got to be having frank conversations.
00:52:49
Speaker
And in order to do that, you've got to be maintaining a relationship that allows for those frank conversations to be had in the right spirit and to be received well.
00:53:01
Speaker
There's no shortcuts in parenting.
00:53:05
Speaker
It takes real effort.
00:53:09
Speaker
You mentioned about innovation.
00:53:11
Speaker
Do you think also that there's a point where... I talked to Tom Woods.
00:53:18
Speaker
It was on his podcast, as you know.
00:53:22
Speaker
One of the things that we discussed was his generation of being a conservative commentator online
00:53:30
Speaker
I was thinking about Carrie Prejohn, who was kind of thrown into the meat grinder around the same time, early 2000s, where there was a lot more sort of institutional trust in the media.
00:53:44
Speaker
And so like, if you were getting kicked around by those people, a lot of people assume that you kind of deserved it.
00:53:50
Speaker
You deserved it, yeah.
00:53:53
Speaker
And now it's much more like...
00:53:58
Speaker
yeah, they lie all the time about everything.
00:54:00
Speaker
I'm sorry that happened to you.
00:54:01
Speaker
Like that was like 90, 95% of the time.
00:54:05
Speaker
That's been the response when I tell people what happened to me, there's no like, Oh, you must've really done something.
00:54:10
Speaker
Cause it's like, no, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a jungle and it's, it's crazy out there.
00:54:15
Speaker
Do you think that there's a point at which enough, obviously ordinary, decent people get run through this machine that people sort of stop caring?
00:54:29
Speaker
I think that has to be, and that may be the way we innovate our way out of it, is that we just, over time, erode public trust in these institutions.
00:54:42
Speaker
I can't remember where I heard it recently.
00:54:44
Speaker
Maybe it was Jordan Peterson or
00:54:49
Speaker
That guy that's James something he's been going around talking about his book about like CRT in classrooms.
00:55:00
Speaker
But one of them talked about how the best thing you can do with these people is let them talk and let them be heard.
00:55:11
Speaker
Because what ends up happening is that those of us that are sane hear it and go,
00:55:19
Speaker
They're insane.
00:55:22
Speaker
And the more we allow their insane ideas to get exposure, I think the better off we'll all be.
00:55:30
Speaker
Twitter has been incredible in that respect because it has given us all an unfiltered look at the people who deliver the news, the people who invest in quote unquote investigate journalism and the people who run all these institutions that are supposed to be so authoritative and so smart.
00:55:49
Speaker
And like, you know, goofballs like me and guys with anime avatars can just destroy those people on Twitter and make them look absolutely ridiculous because they are ridiculous because they're buffoons.
00:56:00
Speaker
And it's, you know, I think that's creative destruction.
00:56:09
Speaker
It's a healthy process that needs to unfold.
00:56:13
Speaker
Well, and I think those of us who are in a position to do so, I think we need to not be quiet and we need to actually take action on our ideas.
00:56:22
Speaker
You know, I loved, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything he has to say, I loved that Ben Shapiro gave...
00:56:32
Speaker
I can't remember his name, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:35
Speaker
Gave her another opportunity and stepped up and said, you know, we're going to make sure you're not entirely canceled.
00:56:42
Speaker
I think to the extent we're able to, we should all sort of follow that example, right?
00:56:48
Speaker
So if there's an opportunity to hire somebody who has gone through this, we should do it as an employer.
00:56:54
Speaker
um or if there's somebody who has to venture into entrepreneurship we should support them and that's that's i think probably the best way that we can uh that we can help change this tide is putting action and money and intent behind our words
00:57:18
Speaker
Absolutely.
Exit Group for Reputation Support
00:57:19
Speaker
I mean, that was the genesis of this group, was to get resources together and minds together to make that kind of thing happen.
00:57:30
Speaker
I was just going to suggest that there could be a potential way that we could harness the power of the exit group to help each other or help out those who have been damaged in their online reputation.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, lay it on me.
00:57:49
Speaker
Because one of the missing elements when you're publishing stuff, and this is why I told you that we've experimented with like, I've got a whole wall in our warehouse of mobile phones that are all hooked up to a server and every single one of them is rotating IPs and emulating human behavior.
00:58:15
Speaker
and all with a with a each one of them has a specific purpose right well one of those reasons is because Google pays quite a bit of attention to what we call user signals and so there's a lot I could imagine us doing as a group to help each other out in those situations you know if for example
00:58:38
Speaker
If we have websites, we could potentially say, hey, here's opportunities where I'm willing to give you a backlink to a particular piece of content.
00:58:47
Speaker
We could take published content that's going to help and we could help to proliferate it.
00:58:54
Speaker
We could help share, like, comment and get it out there.
00:58:59
Speaker
So, you know, having even just a small network can make a really big difference.
00:59:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:05
Speaker
So I just wanted to throw out there that that could potentially be another benefit of the group and a way in which we could all help lift one another up.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah, so Robert B is an exit member, and he's been a very strong booster of that idea.
00:59:21
Speaker
He's very good about sharing the guy's content and getting things out there, and it's something that we've kicked around quite a bit, and that's one of the reasons why we have the content creation space is so that we can shill each other's stuff.
00:59:35
Speaker
And I have been thinking of that more in terms of like,
00:59:41
Speaker
someone wants to get their sub stack out there or whatever, but I hadn't thought of it from like a real name reputation management perspective.
00:59:48
Speaker
So that's a really good note.
00:59:49
Speaker
And I think we're going to do something like that.
00:59:51
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:59:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:53
Speaker
So, and I could even probably scrounge up a, one of those spreadsheets that somebody could use to do the assessment so they could figure out like, what are my antagonistic links?
01:00:09
Speaker
What am I up against?
01:00:11
Speaker
And then once that's built, then we could kind of figure out a plan for them as far as profile creation and publishing, and then the group could help to promote those things.
01:00:23
Speaker
That's awesome.
01:00:25
Speaker
We could probably put something like that on the wiki.
01:00:26
Speaker
So I'm going to be announcing the release of the wiki tonight.
01:00:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:30
Speaker
And we can talk about it.
01:00:33
Speaker
So it'll always be accessible.
01:00:34
Speaker
On the group chat, things kind of flow down river and you lose them.
01:00:38
Speaker
Right, right, right.
01:00:41
Speaker
But, um, but yeah, that's, that's an awesome idea, man.
01:00:44
Speaker
Thanks a lot.
01:00:45
Speaker
You bet.
01:00:46
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:00:48
Speaker
All right.
01:00:50
Speaker
Well, that's all I have.
Conclusion and Contact Information
01:00:51
Speaker
I will splice that in.
01:00:54
Speaker
Um, cool.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:55
Speaker
So great information, uh, both from, from the entrepreneurship side.
01:01:01
Speaker
I think people are going to find that really interesting.
01:01:03
Speaker
And yeah, you know, there's at least, there's at least, uh, half a dozen to a dozen of us that, um,
01:01:12
Speaker
could really use that reputation management information.
01:01:14
Speaker
So, so that's, that's awesome.
01:01:17
Speaker
Really, really appreciate you taking the time and for, and for joining up, man.
01:01:20
Speaker
It's great to have you in the gang.
01:01:22
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:01:23
Speaker
Thanks.
01:01:24
Speaker
I appreciate the chance to be on the podcast.
01:01:27
Speaker
And with that, Corey, it's been, it's been a great time talking to you.
01:01:31
Speaker
And if, if anyone is interested in learning more about reputation management or
01:01:37
Speaker
or if by chance you're a personal injury attorney and you wanna get your SEO dialed in, you can find Corey at clicksy.com, C-L-I-X-S-Y.com.
01:01:49
Speaker
If you wanna be one of the heroes that makes sure that Dr. Bennett's not completely canceled, come check us out at exitgroup, exitgroup.us.
01:01:57
Speaker
You can follow us on Twitter at exit underscore org, and you can subscribe to the newsletter there.
01:02:02
Speaker
Thanks so much, Corey.
01:02:03
Speaker
This was a great time.
01:02:03
Speaker
Great talking to you.
01:02:04
Speaker
Thank you.
01:02:05
Speaker
I really appreciate the opportunity.