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45 - William Wheelwright (@ploughmansfolly)
1.9k Plays2 years ago
Wheelwright is a farmer and well-known poster (twitter.com/ploughmansfolly). We discuss the spiritual value of confronting death and violence on the farm, the partnership between man and beast, building community in declining areas, finding the people you can be tolerant and cooperative with, etc.
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Transcript
Should Right-Wing Personalities Shift to Trades?
00:00:18
Speaker
Exit Podcast.
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Speaker
This is Dr. Bennett, joined here by William Wheelwright, a farmer and well-known poster on our corner of Twitter.
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As featured on Tucker Carlson, he had a documentary on declining fertility and sperm counts and sort of the crisis of fertility afflicting the West these days.
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So welcome to the show, William.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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It's a pleasure to be here.
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Great.
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So to open up the conversation, is it the case that every dissident right-wing personality should abandon their Goldman Sachs job and become a plumber or a farmer?
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No, I don't think so.
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I think that...
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every right-wing Twitter personality should be trying to succeed in whatever realm they have found themselves in, which I think is, from what I know, extremely diverse, extremely diverse range of occupations and sectors and geographical locations.
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And that's a good thing.
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And I don't think that there's like, um,
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you know, any particular reason to, you know, obviously there may be some ideological reasons to prefer, you know, white collar work or something.
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I think, you know, I think that, you know, it's a good idea for young men to, in terms of, you know, in terms of sort of winning in the, you know, less than desirable system that we are all unavoidably operating in,
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it's not a bad thing or a bad idea to, you know, pursue material success.
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Obviously,
The Value of Trades for Young Men
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spiritually, you have to be careful with that.
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But I think in terms of, you know, our side and what's in the best interest of our side, I don't think there's anything wrong with, you know, Goldman Sachs or going into finance or whatever.
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But I do think that...
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You know, Goldman Sachs is one thing and, you know, a sort of a sort of high slope trajectory that you might be able to put yourself on through that or through some other industry is one argument.
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But between it may be a more pertinent discussion
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for someone who doesn't have access or through their education and their background is deciding between some sort of middle manager job at some irrelevant company or organization and becoming an electrician or a plumber or doing something, you know, more traditionally considered working class or manual labor.
Societal Pressures and Self-Assessment
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And I think that it's a no brainer that that person should go into trades.
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Yeah.
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if you're 18 and you're deciding whether or not to go to college, the reason for which would be, you know, to have some sort of, you know, so-called white collar job at the end of it versus going to a trade school and learning how to do that.
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I just think that you will be better off in every way opting for the trades.
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You'll be making more money, most likely.
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You'll be happier.
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You'll be more useful to
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society, you will be more attractive to women.
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I think, yeah, I would definitely recommend eschewing that sort of, you know, being realistic with yourself about what the
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trajectory looks like for what kind of crew you're going into out of whether it be high school or college or grad school and, um, making a wise decision there.
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Yeah.
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Being just being honest with yourself is, is such a challenge, uh, in our culture.
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The, the idea that you should, that you should take an honest accounting of, uh, like what type of woman you're going to
Cultural Narrative of Individualism
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get,
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and what type of job you're going to qualify for.
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And like everything is built around the moonshot, the, uh, you know, the, you know, you're going to be, you're going to be LeBron or Bill Gates, or, or you, you know, you're going to get the 10 of tens.
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And it's really hard on the individual level to take, to take a young man aside and say, you know, um,
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these, this is the actual range of what you probably are going to accomplish.
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And I, you know, I think, I think probably part of the problem with that is, is that we frame people's worth in those terms.
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And so we say like, you know, if, if you could, uh, if you could make more money or, or, or, or bag a hotter woman, then, then you would be, you would be more, you'd be better.
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And so then it's very hard to say, well, and that leads into human biodiversity and all kinds of other topics that we're unable to be honest about because those are like the yard, like IQ is like the yardstick of humanity for a lot of people.
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Right.
Farming and Connection to Nature
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Yeah, well, I think, you know, you use the word moonshot and I think, you know, the sort of follow your dreams American type, yeah, career kind of self-understanding and cultural, yeah, cultural development
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way of knowing itself through those terms is, compared to other cultures, probably, yeah, ultimately destructive.
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It just, and it ties in, as you say, to a lot of other things, because it's about this sort of deified individualism that I think, as it gets into more and more extreme regions, sort of in the abstract sense,
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it gets weirder and weirder.
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And I think, you know, this notion of like, you can do anything, follow your dreams.
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Yeah.
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You're LeBron.
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You can be a star athlete.
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You can, you know, do anything you set your mind to.
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I think, yeah, that's probably an unhealthy kind of cultural mantra that we definitely have.
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Not just, not because it's like, everyone's going to be an average loser, but because yeah, ultimately
Natural Law vs. Technological Manipulation
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we should still be encouraging people to excel, but,
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we should be realistic, you know, from a relatively young age, I would say about what that will look like.
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And I think also, but I think, you know, in some way this happens implicitly for people at a certain, at a certain moment, but I think, you know, particularly for women, I mean, thinking of it in like the female terms, this is really like this notion of having it all as a woman that is constantly bandied about and the sort of,
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classic tragic narrative of women kind of arriving in their late 30s and realizing they actually can have it all, you know, after focusing on their career for, you know, the first 15 or more years of their post educational lives and feeling like they've made a massive mistake, which we're going to have, you know, millions and millions of those women as time goes on.
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I think, you know, we're already seeing the sort of repercussions of that whole situation politically.
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to some degree and it's going to get worse.
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And so, yeah, obviously that's one way among many that this sort of, you know, denial of the limits of, you know, biology and physics and reality, which is really, I think just at the, you know, we're getting straight to the center of, of kind of the regime's, the regime's core beliefs and core tenants.
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I think that's kind of the main thing that biology and that the law that, um,
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the laws of physics and biology in particular, you know, are malleable and don't, and can be manipulated through technology and need not apply.
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So, you
Lessons from Farming on Life and Death
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know, I think that's obviously what, basically what we're fighting against and that manifests itself through race and sex primarily, but in a lot of other ways too.
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I notice you see a lot of, you know,
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Like women picking fights with adult men.
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There's a lot of videos on the internet of women picking fights with adult men.
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Like physical fights?
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Like physical fights.
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Like they clearly believe that there's not as big of a differential as there is.
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And I just think about like... And a lot of guys on our side of things will sort of celebrate the...
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the, the, the contact with reality.
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Right.
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But I wonder if you have thoughts about like, I think, I think doing some kind of hands-on job, raising animals, raising plants, you, you learn a lot about your own limitations and, and like,
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where the boundaries are and what's possible and what's likely.
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And I wonder what you've learned from your farm and your animals.
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What's brought you into contact with reality?
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Yeah, well, I think it is, yeah, and I think it's a great on-ramp to all of this stuff.
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And that's sort of what my account has been is having this sort of unique perspective on farming that plays into the whole
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the larger political and socio and cultural conversation and sort of what's going wrong and how we can fix it.
Animals' Perception of Time
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And yes, farming and, you know, interacting with the natural world of which is the, you know, farming is the primal and most original form of that, at least within a sort of civilized and social context.
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Interacting with plants and animals, as you say, is a great antidote to precisely the, precisely the,
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sort of, you know, lies that we've been told.
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It reminds me of this sort of, this sort of PUA mantra that, you know, guys kind of, you know, this notion that PUA was sort of like a big red pill for a lot of guys in like the 2000s or something, because, you know, they just sort of woke up to the fact that like everything they had been told about women was a lie.
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And you can sort of have something similar in terms of like nature and
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on a much more, much more primal level, uh, about nature and reality and death and yeah, the way ecology and, and the universe writ large operate through doing things that, you know, are either directly or adjacent to farming.
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Um, so to, to answer your question, I think, yeah, I think, you know, my mind it's, it's obviously a very broad question, but I think, you know, what have I learned from farming?
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You know, everything that I know, I would say, but, um,
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my mind goes in terms of like the deepest lessons, my mind goes to, you know, I think one of the regimes, one thing that should be discussed about what the regime believes and what, you know, we're up against is that it, you know, one of the, the sort of apotheosis of this denial of nature and denial of the sort of laws of laws of the universe, if you will, the natural law is that like immortality will be possible at some point.
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that like death itself is eradicable.
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And you get, you get actually unironically get this through certain tech personalities.
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And I think that boomers, whether they've turned out to be on the left or the right, are all afflicted by this, the same, you know, childhood experience, which is that because technology was advancing so rapidly while they were, when they were children and, you know, man on the moon and all this different stuff, they, it was sort of, it seemed logical to them that like,
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immortality would be achieved in their lifetimes.
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And there's like videos of, you know, boomers as children in black and white on YouTube saying these sorts of things, saying like, you know, what do you, what sort of technologies do you think will, will have achieved by the time you're 50, 60, 70?
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And they, and, you know, often they'll say like, I think that we'll have, you know, I don't know what term they use, but like unlocked the secrets of immortality or whatever.
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And I think that, you know, COVID has been,
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I think that part of the reason the boomers chimped out so badly with COVID was because, you know, while they may no longer think that like immortality is within reach within their lifetimes, they still expect that they are going to live until like 150 or something.
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At least the ones that I've talked to genuinely think this and maybe they will.
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That's, you know, a whole other, a whole other can of worms.
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But the notion that that would be cut short, like halfway to the goal, if they're in their 60s or 70s now, was like, you know, too much for them to bear.
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And that's why I think that's part of why kind of, you know, on a on a psychological level, they freaked out so
Ethics of Animal Slaughter
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badly.
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And so I think bringing this all back to the farm, this notion of, you know, the relationship between
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the current regime and the natural world.
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And they certainly view themselves as at odds with each other, or at least the regime views itself as at odds with nature.
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I don't know how nature feels about the regime.
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But I think farming for me has really showed me that it's not so much that
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that you know these are that it's it's like the natural law and in this sort of like old testament way like it must be kind of feared and respected i think it's more just that there things like death um and you know uh mortality and decay and stuff like that you interact with on a day-to-day basis on in a farm setting um just have are much more kind of complex than we've been taught uh growing up in under this regime um and have you know and i think all
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you know, more ancient and older versions of the various religions we practice understood this and kind of kept, for instance, death at the forefront of their minds and basically everything that they did.
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And this actually sort of through a mystical process produces, you know, impressive results in terms of cultural and social achievement.
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And I think that having moved away from that,
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you know, on a very kind of abstract or subconscious level is a big reason why, is behind a lot of the sort of malaise that we have now, ironically.
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Speaker
And I think that farming kind of has been for me a good just sort of reminder of all of these things that are kind of eternal truths.
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Yeah, you encounter
Violence, Hatred, and Evolutionary Roles
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a lot more suffering and death than I think normal, like people who don't raise animals encounter.
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Even people who raise pets, you know, like their animals very rarely get hurt.
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And when they get sick, they take them to the veterinarian.
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And, you know, it's this very different experience than when it's, you know, you've got 30 chickens.
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Speaker
And if one of them gets hurt in any, like I do remember like when we first got our chickens and taking them to like the chicken expert at church and us being like, you know, he's kind of, this is a little bit funny and I'm not sure, I think he might be sick and him being like, well, it's a chicken and, you know, take care of it, make it comfortable.
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If it seems like it's in pain, you should probably kill it.
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And otherwise, it's a chicken.
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And when the weather got cold, we were like, if you're cold, they're
Spiritual Insights from Farming
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cold, bring them inside, but it's chickens.
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Speaker
And they were like, no, these chickens are actually really, really tough and they can handle.
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Speaker
And I actually have acquired a great deal of respect for the humble chicken.
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Speaker
I've seen them injured.
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I've seen them torn up by animals.
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And the way that they will show zero sign that they are suffering is really remarkable.
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And then there's the fact that they...
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the way that the hens beat the hell out of each other when there's not enough roosters and the way when there's too many roosters, they beat the hell out of the hens.
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And it's, it's, you know, we're not, we're not chickens, but we're not totally unlike chickens either.
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Yeah, there's a common life force permeating all living beings.
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But yeah, it's interesting.
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That's another big thing that has a lot of kind of religious connotations is the relationship, whether animals in terms of slaughtering them and kind of working one's way through the ethics of that.
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I think that to jump straight to the point,
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what I kind of realized, which I think is maybe a unique take that people haven't heard before is that, um, what complicates this whole discussion is that because animals, you know, you, uh, you may or may not believe like they have something like a soul, but, um, and, and, you know, I think there's one, one thing that's difficult about that conversation is that there's such a clear hierarchy of like intelligence and emotional intelligence among animals, you know, like,
00:18:10
Speaker
whales and like dolphins and then, and like gnats and worms are, uh, you know, you can, are not on the same level.
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Um, and so we have to, we have to deal with that and understand what that means, but that's another conversation.
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My point was to say that, um, what makes it difficult, what makes it interesting about, uh, slaughtering animals and complicates the conversation is that they, uh, don't know about death.
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Yeah.
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Speaker
They don't have like this fear of, um,
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you know, the untraveled country from who's born,
Technology's Impact on Suffering and Beliefs
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however it goes, from who's born no traveler returns.
00:18:47
Speaker
They, you know, and so thinking about that fact, they fear pain and they fear even more than pain.
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Speaker
They fear, depending on the species, they fear usually separation from the group and will gladly undergo pain and or death, risk pain and death to reunite themselves with the group.
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Speaker
And so that's like the worse than death for them.
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Speaker
And, you know, obviously pain and discomfort they're aware of and are trying to avoid.
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Speaker
But death itself, they don't know about.
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Speaker
At least not farm animals.
00:19:24
Speaker
I mean, I think it's interesting, like, you know, that video about the orcas, that movie about the orcas, Blackfish, where it had the mother orca mourning the dead child, the dead calf.
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you have to wonder whether whales are aware of death in some way because of that, which would be kind of a crazy thing.
00:19:43
Speaker
But certainly cows and sheep and pigs and definitely poultry don't know that death is something that might happen to them.
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Speaker
And so one way you might realize this is that if you have a group of pigs, for instance, and you're going to slaughter them, you shoot the first one and the other pigs will just lick up its blood and don't know what
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Speaker
you know, it's like their brother or their friend and, you know, you've just killed it and they don't it's like they they don't, you know, mourn it or they don't they don't see it as like a
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Speaker
whatever.
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Speaker
And they're emotional animals.
00:20:20
Speaker
You know, they definitely, pigs in particular, definitely express themselves in a sort of relatively complex way compared to a lot of other animals.
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So I believe that they don't have any awareness of what death is the way that human beings do.
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And all they're trying to do is avoid pain.
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Speaker
So killing them kind of whether or not that's like what that means to the animal is different.
00:20:43
Speaker
And the other thing that is sort of related to this is that I think once they've reached maturity, they don't experience time in the same way as human beings do.
00:20:50
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I
Modern Views on Violence and Gender Roles
00:20:51
Speaker
think that, you know, maybe while obviously while they're growing to maturity, they may experience it in some way similar to how we do.
00:20:57
Speaker
And maybe when they're sort of decaying and dying, they might experience it in some way similar to the way we do.
00:21:02
Speaker
But
00:21:03
Speaker
through the prime of their life from, you know, if it's a, say it's a sheep that can live to eight or 10 years, you know, it's got the first year where it grows to maturity and then the last maybe two years where it's sort of, you know, beginning to falter a little bit.
00:21:19
Speaker
But those interceding seven years are basically just the same thing every day.
00:21:23
Speaker
You know, it's like the...
00:21:27
Speaker
There's not like this kind of linear trajectory, like how we think of our own lives for them.
00:21:35
Speaker
I noticed when we first got our dairy cow that the moment she figured out that the fence was electrified, she would eat and chew cud and get hay and get water.
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Speaker
And that was like, she didn't explore things.
00:21:57
Speaker
She didn't like, she just sort of exists.
00:22:02
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Yeah.
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And yeah, there's no, there's, there's no possibility.
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I think when, when you're talking about the passage of time, there's no boredom and there's no like waiting for anything.
00:22:19
Speaker
She's just there.
00:22:23
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Yep.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, they're present in the moment.
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They're not and they don't experience like anxiety or anything like this.
00:22:29
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Right.
00:22:30
Speaker
So yeah, and, you know, these are all things that are bound up with time.
00:22:34
Speaker
And, you know, the knowledge that time is, or the sensation that time is kind of ticking away that humans have kind of
00:22:42
Speaker
memed themselves into and in certain ways um so yeah i think between those two things um it's very interesting to think about uh you know between the the way the animals experience death and time or to the degree that they do um you sort of you you think about those things in the human context and they're sort of um they become very interesting you know in uh
00:23:07
Speaker
In Christianity, we believe that death is not natural, you know, that it was given to man as a punishment for his unnatural behavior or his disobedient behavior.
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And so, like, what does that mean in terms of the rest of creations, the rest of living creations' relationship to death, which obviously they undergo death,
Farming, Environment, and Tucker Carlson
00:23:26
Speaker
but...
00:23:29
Speaker
Anyway, I don't have the answers to this stuff, but it's all very interesting to ponder.
00:23:31
Speaker
And just even thinking about these things and asking these questions is very much a sort of reactionary act, in my opinion.
00:23:40
Speaker
The Bible talks about tasting death as opposed to...
00:23:49
Speaker
I think tasting of death is maybe different than dying.
00:23:54
Speaker
And I don't think that animals taste of death.
00:23:58
Speaker
I think that they just die.
00:24:01
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's very interesting.
00:24:02
Speaker
Like the hymn Ave Verum Corpus, which made famous by Mozart, which they used to sing at Mass at the consecration.
00:24:12
Speaker
One of the lines is,
00:24:13
Speaker
Estor nobis pregustatum mortis in examinae.
00:24:16
Speaker
May this be, or this is to us a foretaste of the trial of death.
00:24:22
Speaker
Um,
00:24:23
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talking about the Eucharist.
00:24:24
Speaker
And so, yes, this notion that we need to be constantly reminding ourselves about our mortality and seeking out and preparing ourselves for a good death or a glorious death is very kind of Greco-Roman slash Christian, at least like medieval Christian, maybe certain denominations have lost this understanding of
00:24:50
Speaker
or sort of, you know, set of way of, way of prioritizing or creating a hierarchy of values in life and putting, putting, you know, the, the, the sort of preparing oneself for a, for a good death at the very top.
00:25:07
Speaker
You know, what, what are the effects of doing this and what are the, what have we lost by having abandoned this, this, you know this, this approach to human life, which we undoubtedly have done.
00:25:20
Speaker
And I think a lot of the sort of deformity and decay and both of our bodies and of our society have to do with this abandonment.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's,
Sustainable Farming Practices
00:25:33
Speaker
well, but at the same time, you can see how the lines were drawn in that, you know, if you're thinking about the Gospels and you're thinking about Jesus, you know, healing the sick and caring for the poor and advising us to care for the poor and sort of to alleviate suffering,
00:25:59
Speaker
And then we have this technological revolution, which promises the alleviation of suffering at a scale undreamed of in the past.
00:26:09
Speaker
And you can see how maybe I like I basically view liberalism and sort of the.
00:26:20
Speaker
Oh, I'm trying not to use BAPS word for it, but let's just say the ideology of the regime.
00:26:27
Speaker
International racial Marxism.
00:26:29
Speaker
There you go.
00:26:30
Speaker
I like that one.
00:26:38
Speaker
The roots that that has in Christianity, but I mean, it's obviously like, it's obviously a heresy.
00:26:43
Speaker
It's obviously a devoid of, of, of Christ, but, but you can see how it's rooted in this like,
00:26:52
Speaker
let's alleviate suffering, let's take away pain, let's make people feel comfortable, let's be warm and loving to everyone.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah,
Advice for Aspiring Farmers
00:27:00
Speaker
let's fill in the valleys and level the mountains.
00:27:04
Speaker
Right, right.
00:27:05
Speaker
Let's do everything that is supposed to happen on the last day.
00:27:09
Speaker
Let's do all of that now.
00:27:13
Speaker
But raising animals in particular involves, I think you're right that you're supposed to love the animals that are in your stewardship, right?
00:27:28
Speaker
But you are also going to deliberately inflict the wounds of death on those animals.
00:27:37
Speaker
And you're gonna essentially
00:27:41
Speaker
cut that animal apart and eat it.
00:27:46
Speaker
And I wonder if that is one of the realities that, I wonder if that sort of planted seeds for this heresy of like, the infliction of pain is always bad.
00:28:00
Speaker
And therefore, men
Revitalizing Rural Communities
00:28:04
Speaker
who are psychologically and physiologically
00:28:07
Speaker
like all of our adaptations relative to the female of the species are about our ability to inflict and withstand and psychologically endure violence.
00:28:22
Speaker
And so it's like, we are, you know, if violence is sort of the, the, the original sin, tyranny, oppression, coercion, deliberate infliction of pain, if, if, if that's the ultimate evil,
00:28:37
Speaker
then manhood basically ipso facto is evil.
00:28:45
Speaker
And yeah, it seems to me that at least having some contact with where the dino nuggets come from could change that for us psychologically.
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really interesting point.
00:28:58
Speaker
I hadn't thought about it in those terms.
00:29:00
Speaker
But yeah, you know, whitewashing the inherent violence of, you know, the act of eating anything, but certainly meat.
00:29:09
Speaker
Not that it needs to be.
00:29:10
Speaker
Obviously, we can and should.
00:29:14
Speaker
minimize suffering and pain, but death always involves pain.
00:29:19
Speaker
It always hurts.
00:29:22
Speaker
And our responsibility as a slaughter man is
00:29:28
Speaker
you know, whether by, whether directly or by degree is to minimize that pain and suffering.
00:29:34
Speaker
But yes, there's, there is, you know, unavoidable violence
Exurb Model for Balanced Living
00:29:38
Speaker
in, in the act of taking another being's life.
00:29:42
Speaker
And yes, being, being able to hold two truths at once, which is that, you know, particularly in the sort of farming, small farm or homestead context of, you know, we love these animals, we care for them.
00:29:54
Speaker
We, you know, want them to have,
00:29:59
Speaker
you know, good, comfortable lives.
00:30:02
Speaker
But yes, we are going to slaughter them at the end of the day.
00:30:07
Speaker
Being able to, you know, reconcile those two, you know, sort of rationally irreconcilable notions is a big, is, I think, you know, also part of, you know, like you just, what you just said about men, you know,
00:30:28
Speaker
men being adapted to sort of psychologically withstand violence.
00:30:32
Speaker
I think that's, you know, a big part of it.
00:30:35
Speaker
Not that, you know, women can't do that in the slaughter context also, but I do think that it's a relatively, well, yeah, it's an inherently male trait, I would say, is being able to, you know, just do what has to be done, right?
00:30:50
Speaker
And, you know, not sort of get emotional about it, for lack of a reason.
00:30:58
Speaker
I think it actually, I actually don't think it's that irreconcilable.
00:31:02
Speaker
I mean,
Cultural Diversity and Community Trust
00:31:03
Speaker
I think about even when it's interpersonal violence, even when it's, you know, defending people you love against people who want to hurt them.
00:31:14
Speaker
I think that there is a conflation of, there's a conflation of violence and hatred or a conflation of violence and cruelty.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I think even if it's in the context where you're sort of called upon in your responsibility as a protector and a provider to harm another human being, I think, yeah, I think it doesn't mean you hate them.
00:31:49
Speaker
It doesn't mean you want them to suffer.
00:31:51
Speaker
It just means, well, in the furtherance of my duty as the protector of this family or a protector of this country or whatever it is, I have to blow that guy's brains on the back of that wall.
00:32:10
Speaker
And, you know...
00:32:15
Speaker
we are, we are called upon as Christians to, to, to love our enemies.
00:32:23
Speaker
Um, I just don't necessarily see that it's contradictory, especially since we believe in the hereafter, like, uh, death and pain are not the worst things that can happen to a person.
00:32:34
Speaker
And, uh, for, for, for instance, in, in the case of, uh,
00:32:40
Speaker
someone who wants to hurt your family or something, the infliction of a punishment to prevent them from doing that is, I would argue, a mercy compared to what they will suffer if they are allowed to commit that act.
00:33:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
Liberalism, Free Speech, and Power Dynamics
00:33:03
Speaker
And so, yeah, I basically just to draw it all back, I think that farming is a really important way of connecting with violence and understanding it as a normal part of life that you are actually purpose built to do.
00:33:24
Speaker
And if you believe that we are created in the image of God, then that becomes really interesting.
00:33:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:33:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:33:34
Speaker
I, I'd like to, uh, I'd like to talk a little bit about what you said on the, uh, the Tucker Carlson documentary about, uh, about declining fertility, declining sperm counts.
00:33:47
Speaker
Um, what, what triggered your interest in that subject in particular?
00:33:55
Speaker
How did you kind of get into that space to where you were, you were sort of scooped up as, as an expert on that topic?
00:34:04
Speaker
question i was a little confused about it at first myself um but i think just because of what i post about which isn't necessarily focused so much on the fertility directly on the fertility stuff or the sort of you know red ray pete type uh guys who are also involved like ben braddock and stuff um who know a lot more about the sort of you know medical biological side of you know at least the human side of things um but i think just through
00:34:31
Speaker
through what I'm able to offer in terms of farming and food and sort of how these things relate to the various things that are going on in terms of hormonal catastrophes, both in terms of testosterone and sperm in general, sort of procreative diseases.
00:34:59
Speaker
biological processes breaking down.
00:35:03
Speaker
But and also, you know, just toxins in general, which are all obviously not not all but are in large part related to agriculture, as it is widely practiced today.
00:35:15
Speaker
So I think that's how I kind of got looped in with those guys.
00:35:19
Speaker
But it was Yeah, I was, I was surprised myself, but it was a great time making the documentary.
00:35:24
Speaker
And, you know, I think we
00:35:26
Speaker
It was a very good final product, at least
Nietzschean Vitalism and Christianity
00:35:29
Speaker
in so far as it made our enemies chimp out.
00:35:33
Speaker
That it did.
00:35:34
Speaker
It was always an ancillary goal.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
If you were running the Department of Agriculture or the EPA,
00:35:52
Speaker
What would be your priorities as far as attacking those toxins?
00:36:01
Speaker
Well, I think...
00:36:05
Speaker
Sort of from a larger, blowing this out to a larger conversation, in order to zoom back in again in a second, I think that agriculture, there's a misperception that agriculture is practiced the way it is today because, in America, because agriculture,
00:36:24
Speaker
that's like some sort of free market process taking place.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:29
Speaker
When nothing could be further from the truth.
00:36:31
Speaker
It is very much a it may be the most manipulated industrial sector in terms of how and you can just you can you perceive that just through the homogeneity that you can you can observe if you drive across the country or look at numbers about what we grow and how much of it.
00:36:54
Speaker
you know, it's not natural or normal or the free market for, you know, there to be 60% of the continent growing, you know, one or two crops.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah, this is especially, yeah.
00:37:07
Speaker
And what's especially unnatural and not normal in terms of specifically to agriculture, and this relates to the chemical thing is, and this is an extremely new and dangerous experiment in the sort of, you know, grand scheme of human history.
00:37:21
Speaker
is the
Declining Fertility and Family Values
00:37:22
Speaker
segregation of animal and plant agriculture.
00:37:27
Speaker
And so what ends up, whereas, you know, up until the 60s, virtually every single farm in America and everywhere else for that matter, for all of human history would have been integrated animals and crops.
00:37:38
Speaker
And, you know, not even necessarily, you know,
00:37:42
Speaker
you know, like production type animals, but certainly draft animals, which would have produced the fertility that would have been spread on, you know, in order to grow cash crops and, you know, even other minor inputs like that.
00:37:59
Speaker
This would have been, you know, in the pre-chemical agricultural world, which again is less than 100 years old.
00:38:08
Speaker
the, you know, this would have been the fertility source.
00:38:10
Speaker
But now instead of doing that, we keep all of our cows, which we don't have, we have the same amount of or less or fewer cows than there were buffalo here, you know, prior to them all being slaughtered by the US Army in the 1880s, almost to extinction.
00:38:28
Speaker
And, you know, so the carrying capacity of the continent is not being challenged or pushed up against.
00:38:37
Speaker
And, you know, that's just buffalo, by the way.
00:38:38
Speaker
That doesn't include all the other herbivores that were here, including, you know, caribou and elk and, you know, many other species.
00:38:47
Speaker
But the point just being that, you know, we take that, you know,
00:38:52
Speaker
that number, you know, 70 million, however many million head of cattle, I can't remember off the top of my head or being, you know, at any given time, that's what we have in the States between dairy and dairy and beef.
00:39:06
Speaker
And we keep them, um, you know, rather than, rather than, you know, using their fertility to,
Spiritual and Physical Interconnectedness
00:39:12
Speaker
in terms of their manure and, uh, other effluvia, uh, to, um, you know, make compost and do intelligent things like that.
00:39:20
Speaker
Um, we just let it all kind of get flushed down the Mississippi every time there's like a hurricane, uh,
00:39:26
Speaker
And then instead of using it on all the corn that we grow, we manufacture petroleum-based fertilizers.
00:39:40
Speaker
And then that goes down to Missouri whenever there's a hurricane also.
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:39:44
Speaker
So it's a great system.
00:39:46
Speaker
It really makes a lot of sense.
00:39:48
Speaker
And so this would be...
00:39:52
Speaker
Sorry, your question was, what would I, you know, if I were head of the USDA?
00:39:58
Speaker
I think that, yeah, you know, we need to remove these perverse incentives, which really, ultimately, you know, the motivations of the actual farmers are very simple.
00:40:10
Speaker
And that's just to keep the land safe.
00:40:13
Speaker
their family's land which is for most of them been in their family for a long long time um at least in american terms and um you know that's sort of that's sort of all that all that really matters is to be able to keep the land and in order to do that they're they're you know farmers in general basically whatever kind of farmer you are you are um totally over levered to
00:40:37
Speaker
creditors and lenders in order to continue
Perceptions of Motherhood and Body Image
00:40:41
Speaker
to, you know, be on this hamster wheel of producing, this debt hamster wheel of producing, you know, corn and beans and using, you know, using debt purchased equipment and, you know, mortgaging your own land, mortgaging land and,
00:40:59
Speaker
you know, having to other, other things bought on debt.
00:41:02
Speaker
And it's all just, you know, all that it's actually propping up are the, are the creditors and, you know, the creditors who are, who are then propping up the, you know, equipment manufacturers and the, the chemical manufacturers.
00:41:16
Speaker
And the last, you know, the last guy, the last guy to get anything that's left would be the farmer, which,
00:41:22
Speaker
rarely happens and uh you know maybe in an exceptionally good year a farmer might uh make a little bit of money but most of them um are working town jobs uh and the actual farming doesn't take up that much of their time um and so it's a very you know if we what i would like to see is a thriving agricultural sector that is actually um you know productive in its own right that doesn't need crop insurance and other kind of perverse incentives to uh keep it going in order to um
00:41:53
Speaker
know defend the interests of uh urbanites and um and you know there's various ways you could incentivize that um so yeah
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, I'm interested in what you said about combining plant and animal agriculture, because basically one of
Individualism and Family Life Perceptions
00:42:12
Speaker
the things that I've realized as I've tried my hand at some things is that I really like that the cow and the chickens remind me that they're there.
00:42:27
Speaker
And the plants don't.
00:42:29
Speaker
And so I've sort of been considering getting something more like ranch land where I could just keep animals.
00:42:42
Speaker
Because I've tried three or four different seasons to...
00:42:48
Speaker
to raise something and it always goes terribly.
00:42:51
Speaker
Cause I just, I just, I've, you know, I'm working a day job.
00:42:53
Speaker
I forget that they're there, but you know, the cow won't let you forget.
00:42:58
Speaker
So I guess, I guess what I would ask you is like, how do you, how do you balance?
00:43:05
Speaker
I mean, do you, do you run the farm full time?
00:43:08
Speaker
No, I also have a day job.
00:43:11
Speaker
And then, and then I, and then I run the farm, you know,
00:43:15
Speaker
in the mornings and the evenings and the weekends.
00:43:18
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:43:21
Speaker
But yeah,
Modern Parenting Challenges
00:43:22
Speaker
I, you know, I, I just, I just value the garden time.
00:43:26
Speaker
I mean, we, we don't grow anything commercially in terms of plants.
00:43:31
Speaker
So, but in terms of remembering that the garden's there, it's just, you know, sort of, it's nice that it's only for four or five months out of the year.
00:43:42
Speaker
And so you get to really, um,
00:43:44
Speaker
uh, you know, versus the animals was just every day all year round.
00:43:48
Speaker
Um, the, uh, the, I don't know.
00:43:52
Speaker
I just, I just personally, um, really like the garden.
00:43:57
Speaker
So I, I, maybe I should figure out how to do it.
00:44:00
Speaker
Like I, I, uh, I feel really incompetent in the garden.
00:44:03
Speaker
What, what's the, uh, what's the easy mode?
00:44:06
Speaker
How do you, how did you get started?
00:44:08
Speaker
Um, well, I just grew up doing it with my family.
00:44:11
Speaker
Um, and then in college, I,
00:44:14
Speaker
my college had a, uh, had a piece of land that they let the hippie kids have a garden on.
00:44:21
Speaker
And I was sort of in charge of that.
00:44:23
Speaker
Um, which was, which was weird for me because I was with all of these strange people.
00:44:29
Speaker
Um, but I really wanted to grow vegetables and there was a cool guy there, you know, an old guy who had been sort of the adult in the room, making sure everything proceeded, uh, according to plan for many years.
00:44:43
Speaker
And, um,
00:44:45
Speaker
And I, um, you know, learned a lot from him about, about growing vegetables.
00:44:51
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, I think obviously, yeah, if you're not, if you're not, uh, getting awesome results and yields, then it's difficult to stay motivated and focused.
William's Projects and Creative Collaborations
00:45:04
Speaker
Right.
00:45:04
Speaker
I think I need to find the sensei.
00:45:06
Speaker
I think that's, that's what I'm hearing.
00:45:07
Speaker
I need to, uh, I mean, YouTube has tons of different great gardening resources, uh,
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah, but the thing is, a YouTube channel can't look at my thing and be like, here's how you're screwing it up.
00:45:20
Speaker
So I think I need to, well, I should probably just, next season, I think I'm going to run it by the boys at Exit.
00:45:27
Speaker
We've got some gardeners in there.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah, well, you've got a chicken guy at church.
00:45:33
Speaker
Sure that there must be a gardening guru there as well.
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:38
Speaker
On the subject of the sort of lack of vision of the things that we are doing, the way that it's very immediate, I want to ask you,
00:45:51
Speaker
When we win and we storm little St.
00:45:56
Speaker
James and we expropriate all of Bill Gates' wealth, I'm interested to know if you had $500 million, what would you do with it?
00:46:10
Speaker
I would probably want to start like farm schools.
00:46:14
Speaker
Like where for young men, where they...
00:46:20
Speaker
where they are basically farming and really ranching, I mean, raising dairy animals and taking care of them, but also have kind of cool frog teachers that teach them about philosophy and stuff.
00:46:39
Speaker
I think that would be, and this would obviously just be once we win, this would be required education for all.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah, compulsory, obviously.
00:46:48
Speaker
For all young men, yeah.
00:46:50
Speaker
And they would just go and spend, you know, ages 10 through 18 at these nomadic cowboy bodybuilder boot camps.
00:47:04
Speaker
And yeah.
00:47:07
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:47:08
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:47:10
Speaker
How do you advise?
00:47:12
Speaker
I mean, do you have young men reach out to you to sort of ask about how to get started in that world?
00:47:19
Speaker
And what do you tell them?
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes.
00:47:23
Speaker
I mean, not like crazy deluge or anything, but yeah, often have people DMing me asking for advice about this and that related to farming.
00:47:34
Speaker
I think, you know, I always try and if I haven't responded, if you're listening and I haven't responded to you, I apologize, send me another DM.
00:47:41
Speaker
But I try and respond to everyone with at least a little bit of an answer and advice.
00:47:49
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, you know,
00:47:51
Speaker
I, yeah, I mean, you know, along those lines in a more kind of immediately realistic way, I always recommend just if you're in an area, find, it doesn't have to be an old timer, but often, oftentimes it is the old timers, but find somebody who's just done what you're trying to do successfully in your area.
00:48:08
Speaker
And if that person doesn't exist, then,
00:48:10
Speaker
you know, you're in for you're in for a lot of trial and error probably but that's cool too.
00:48:14
Speaker
I mean, that was what I was, that was my path.
00:48:17
Speaker
So yeah, the old timers.
00:48:20
Speaker
So I live around quite a lot of old timers.
00:48:24
Speaker
And, and I think that's one of the challenges with the
00:48:29
Speaker
the the ruralization dream, if you're trying to do it on an individual level, is that I love our old timers, and we get along great.
00:48:42
Speaker
But currently, I am I am in a community that is rapidly aging.
00:48:52
Speaker
And I think a lot of rural communities are very, very similar.
00:48:57
Speaker
And
00:49:01
Speaker
I've personally come around to the idea that probably if I'm going to strike some kind of a balance where my kids have the experience with animals and experience with wilderness that I want them to have, but also have kind of access to the resources of Babylon,
00:49:24
Speaker
And also, you know, grew up around friends.
00:49:26
Speaker
So they're not, you know, like we're kind of the only kids in the valley.
00:49:31
Speaker
The only, the only family with kids.
00:49:33
Speaker
Right.
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
Which is tough.
00:49:35
Speaker
It's tough.
00:49:35
Speaker
And I've kind of concluded that the only answer to that is to kind of build it for ourselves.
00:49:43
Speaker
And I wonder if, if you've given thought to like maybe living closer to some like-minded people or, or like,
00:49:55
Speaker
How would you revivify or rejuvenate some of these dying places if indeed you think that's what we ought to do?
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's a fraught topic and it's very, it's A, because it's just very difficult.
00:50:13
Speaker
No one seems to have done it in a universally desirable way.
00:50:18
Speaker
And B, you know,
00:50:23
Speaker
Not all of these places are, well, there's just people who don't want to see it happen, who live in these places for whatever reason.
00:50:30
Speaker
So that's challenging.
00:50:33
Speaker
But obviously, or who would maybe want to see it revitalized, but like in a kind of, you know, with the people that are there kind of thing.
00:50:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:50:43
Speaker
Different situations in different places.
00:50:45
Speaker
But you don't want to be a carpetbanger.
00:50:47
Speaker
Right.
00:50:47
Speaker
They're not excited about newcomers, which is understandable.
00:50:51
Speaker
Right.
00:50:52
Speaker
No matter what ethnicity they are.
00:50:56
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's a big challenge.
00:51:03
Speaker
Obviously, you know, one thing that I was talking to some friends about recently on the DMs was...
00:51:13
Speaker
Just, you know, it's easy when we're kind of on our side to lose sight of just how few of us there are, at least on Twitter.
00:51:23
Speaker
There may be many sympathetic types, you know, in the general population that you could maybe, you know, express our ideas to in a sort of normie way and they would be receptive of them.
00:51:36
Speaker
But...
00:51:38
Speaker
In terms of like the one, the people who are on Twitter, there's, there's, you know, probably not more than 50,000.
00:51:43
Speaker
In total, look, just looking at the follower accounts of the biggest account, the follower counts of the biggest accounts and accounting for.
00:51:53
Speaker
you know, people who hate follow them or, you know, feds and everything.
00:51:56
Speaker
So there's, you know, I estimate there's around 50,000, which is obviously a very, very small number.
00:52:03
Speaker
And it's not that that's, you know, that's to our advantage in a lot of ways.
00:52:06
Speaker
But in terms of this question of, you know, actually where you live and who you surround yourself with, I, yeah, I mean, I'm not there in life anyway, personally.
00:52:20
Speaker
I don't have a family.
00:52:21
Speaker
I'm not,
00:52:22
Speaker
100% settled.
00:52:23
Speaker
I am where I am because that's where I grew up, but open to the possibility of not being here forever, although I wouldn't mind either.
00:52:33
Speaker
But I think, yeah, it's just, nobody has come up with a solution to this yet or a viable model because I think ultimately you run into the problem of the kind of
00:52:50
Speaker
intentional community or basically commune.
00:52:57
Speaker
And I just think that successful communities in the long run, unless they're bound together by serious religious affiliations and everybody in it is seriously devout, and even then you run into problems.
00:53:12
Speaker
But I think that actually there's a lot to be gleaned and learned from
00:53:19
Speaker
cringe though it may be, the suburban model.
00:53:23
Speaker
Just in terms of privacy and the amount of privacy and the sort of ratio and balance between community and privacy and here's what's mine and here's what's yours.
00:53:37
Speaker
And then we have a sort of conciliar structure to administer public stuff.
00:53:48
Speaker
utilities and so on, it actually works pretty well.
00:53:53
Speaker
And it's obviously, it's never really existed, but figuring out...
00:54:00
Speaker
I think that actually, there's a reason that basically America conquered the world and then the dudes who did it came back and had all of this land and just built suburbia.
00:54:11
Speaker
It's the ideal model for having a peaceful life where you have the best of both worlds in terms of this is my little micro manor and estate.
00:54:23
Speaker
on a quarter acre or whatever.
00:54:24
Speaker
And, you know, I've got my friend next door, like I may or may not get along with, but it doesn't matter because like, we don't have to hang out, but if we want to, we can this sort of, this sort of vibe versus like, you know, I think the problem that a lot of people have run into when they've kind of moved to a place to, you know, with the sort of intention of having a community is just that like,
00:54:45
Speaker
People feel, you know, there's a sense of kind of implicit obligation that ends up becoming burdensome.
00:54:52
Speaker
And that's just even... Yeah, even if... Yeah, exactly.
00:54:56
Speaker
Even if it's just like, you know...
00:55:01
Speaker
there's not even any kind of like community aspect of it.
00:55:04
Speaker
If it's just like, we're, we're all moving, you know, five of us are moving to like the same town.
00:55:08
Speaker
Like even just from that, just the fact that there's like an intention there, it ends up, it can become, it can become problematic very easily.
00:55:16
Speaker
And then, you know, that, and that's to say nothing of like actual communes where like people,
00:55:21
Speaker
literally all go and live on the same piece of land and different houses and share chores and do all of that, which is just an absolute disaster waiting to happen.
00:55:33
Speaker
And pretty much has been in every case, if you look at how many hippie communes have survived.
00:55:38
Speaker
And I've definitely been around in various capacities, the sort of remnants of a lot of these places that started in
00:55:49
Speaker
in the sixties and whatever, um, or earlier.
00:55:52
Speaker
And it's just, you hear, and you know, there's still some people like lingering around, but it's just very kind of broken and, um, yeah.
00:55:59
Speaker
Sad given how like, uh, idealistic and ambitious they were, uh, when they, when they first went.
00:56:05
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:56:07
Speaker
Historically the way that families with an affinity for each other were, would, would cement their interests would be through, through marriage basically.
00:56:16
Speaker
And I think, um,
00:56:18
Speaker
the idea behind intentional community is that you can be so ideologically simpatico that you just sort of pretend you don't have disparate interests.
00:56:33
Speaker
And I don't know that that's achievable.
00:56:37
Speaker
But when I picture where I want to live and the type of life I want to live,
00:56:45
Speaker
I love being on significant acreage where I can shoot into a pile of dirt if I feel like it and I can shoot off fireworks and I can have cows and chickens and nobody's going to tell me to cut my grass, etc.
00:57:03
Speaker
But I also would like to live on a street with other families that are in similar situations.
00:57:14
Speaker
And so basically, like, I think there's this exurb model that at least at least it appeals really strongly to me because then you can, you know, you can have your your homeschool group and you can take the kids into town for their their dance class or their boxing class or whatever.
00:57:37
Speaker
But you still have some of the sovereignty of there's not all these municipal
00:57:43
Speaker
ordinances breathing down your neck.
00:57:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think that has a lot more legs than something more intense.
00:57:53
Speaker
And I think basically people forge those kind of things.
00:57:56
Speaker
In the American model, which obviously has a lot of downsides, but this sort of rootless transitory model that has developed in America over the last 80 or so years of sort of, you grow up in a city or in suburbia,
00:58:12
Speaker
and uh you graduate from high school there and then you go to college and then you basically just you know never return uh or you have no like affiliation with that place and you you move on to the next place but and and that's obviously you know you you miss out on a lot because of that if you if you're born into that situation but on the other hand um i think people do you know kind of uh
00:58:37
Speaker
end up in, you know, let's say you, you, you know, move to a city and you have, you have one or two kids in the city and then you move to the suburbs because you'd rather raise your kids in the suburbs.
00:58:48
Speaker
And, you know, you, you, you're all of a sudden in this like random place that you never really spent any time in, but, and, and there's all these other people who are sort of in this random place and kind of in this like, you know, college like way you end up like, you know, creating affiliations and,
00:59:03
Speaker
and associations with other people, not like in any official way, but you just become friends with other people because they're like, you know, your kids are friends or whatever.
00:59:10
Speaker
And yeah, it's less, it's less, you know, it's less intentional.
00:59:14
Speaker
Again, I keep using that word, but I think there's something to be said for like the lack of intentionality is I guess what I'm saying.
00:59:22
Speaker
But obviously, yes, in terms of like the shifting, you know, I think what I'm describing may have been more of a viable option or may have been more of a realistic option kind of in the sort of
00:59:33
Speaker
I don't know, like post-World War II, but pre-Obama, like 2012 politicization of everything.
00:59:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:47
Speaker
Phenomenal that we're still obviously living in.
00:59:52
Speaker
If you lived in a culture that was more broadly homogeneous, you could...
00:59:59
Speaker
You could count on at least getting along with some of the people around you a lot more easily.
01:00:04
Speaker
Now there's just so many axes of conflict.
01:00:08
Speaker
There's so many reasons not to get along.
01:00:12
Speaker
Right.
01:00:12
Speaker
Makes it really challenging.
01:00:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:15
Speaker
And there's no... I think we hate on boomers a lot, but boomers, I think...
01:00:21
Speaker
authentically believed in this notion of like tolerance as the highest virtue virtue um and like you know free speech and like um people everybody should like say should like at least you know contribute to the conversation and we can uh if we don't like what somebody says we can shut them down with debate i think you know at least the average boomer like authentically believed in this and this notion of yeah like this liberal notion of tolerance um
01:00:46
Speaker
And that actually makes it possible to be friends with someone who you don't agree with, obviously.
01:00:54
Speaker
And that's just not, that's been canned as a cultural concept, I think.
01:01:00
Speaker
And as the boomers die off, the loss of that is going to, we're going to rue the loss of that, I would expect.
01:01:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:01:11
Speaker
So much of small L liberalism
01:01:15
Speaker
is just an adaptation to living among friendlies.
01:01:20
Speaker
Like, if you stipulate, hey, we're all friends here, we're all aiming in the same direction, then it really makes sense to like, let everybody speak their piece be more or less, you know, democratic in the sense of kind of governing from consensus, you know, making sure as many people as possible are on board and
01:01:46
Speaker
and tolerating disagreement and not picking fights unnecessarily.
01:01:51
Speaker
And so much of those, and frankly, I think that some of those adaptations made the West the world conquering colossus that it was because we were capable of so much in-group cooperation, so much internal trust.
01:02:15
Speaker
that made things way more efficient.
01:02:17
Speaker
And it's like, I think you see that with the kind of endless schisming among our guys, because there is this like face saving kind of like, like, there's an ideological rejection of that kind of tolerance.
01:02:38
Speaker
And so they won't tolerate each other.
01:02:40
Speaker
And so there's this endless bickering.
01:02:44
Speaker
And I think that's not an accident that has ideological roots.
01:02:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:50
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:50
Speaker
Gatekeeping as sort of like one of the most important things.
01:02:54
Speaker
And yeah, excluding people, you know, very intentionally, excluding certain types of people because of what they say and think, which, you know, obviously...
01:03:05
Speaker
I think does have to be done to a certain degree.
01:03:09
Speaker
But I do think also, I think, you know, one interesting, one interesting point that's not, it's not my original point, of course, but is just this, you know, this, this idea that, that, that free speech and, and liberal, liberal ideas in general is just the, the sort of ideology of the outsider, you know, like if you're, or, or, or of the, of the dissenter.
01:03:33
Speaker
And if you're,
01:03:35
Speaker
a hippie or something speaking from outside of like the sort of, I don't know, power structure, the centralized ideological apparatus.
01:03:47
Speaker
then of course your ideology is free speech because if not, then like you get burned at the stake or whatever.
01:03:53
Speaker
And, uh, but as soon as those people get into power or their sort of descendants get into power, like it's no longer about free speech.
01:04:00
Speaker
And so, um, but, but it becomes interesting when you get, have these sort of, when you have a right wing thing that, that is not, that is both,
01:04:12
Speaker
in dissent, but also rejects liberalism, you end up, yeah, with this, as you're describing, this problematic situation of like being unable to, you know, unite the tribes.
01:04:23
Speaker
And, you know, yeah, I don't, I personally, I'm comparatively, you know, wholesome chungus in terms of like wanting to be friends with as many people as possible.
01:04:37
Speaker
I mean, not everybody, but, you know, I don't,
01:04:41
Speaker
I'm not out there trying to trying to call splintering or at least I'm if I'm in such a situation or part of such a debate, I'm trying to find kind of common cause most of the time.
01:04:52
Speaker
But yeah, it's it's it seems pretty baked into to the ideologies that we're sort of dealing with.
01:05:02
Speaker
But yeah, obviously, at a certain point, I mean, you know, the the sort of probably biggest example is just is this sort of Nietzschean vitalism and Christianity.
01:05:11
Speaker
which I personally think there's plenty of potential for overlap on, but there's basically a constant kind of sparring happening between certain personalities on either side of that.
01:05:26
Speaker
Certainly we view the regime with the same revulsion for a lot of the same reasons.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I honestly...
01:05:41
Speaker
I'm not an expert on Nietzsche or anything, but I feel that there is certainly...
01:05:47
Speaker
there's certainly an opportunity and there's nothing contradictory about a sort of vitalistic Christianity.
01:05:52
Speaker
And I think such a thing has existed in the past.
01:05:55
Speaker
It basically doesn't exist now, at least not in any sanctioned form, of course.
01:05:59
Speaker
But, you know, I think that I don't see those two things as being at odds for a certain type of person.
01:06:07
Speaker
I mean, I understand the critiques of the Christian belief system in general from like the Nietzschean perspective.
01:06:15
Speaker
But in terms of
01:06:17
Speaker
you know, to the extent that it's about something bigger than Nietzsche, which is about, you know, which it's about, you know, throwing off this like suffocating life, you know, diminishing rule that we live under.
01:06:34
Speaker
There's obvious, you know, common cause.
01:06:36
Speaker
And, you know, because it's about, again, going back to the beginning, I think both things are ultimately about, you know, the will and about having a good death.
01:06:45
Speaker
Those are
01:06:46
Speaker
those are what, um, that is the, the, like the ultimate common cause, right.
01:06:52
Speaker
That that's, that we're sort of headed towards the same, that we're both, we both desire the same goal.
01:06:57
Speaker
And I think maybe if anything, Christians need to, uh, keep that, keep that in mind a bit more.
01:07:03
Speaker
Um, that's what Christianity is about.
01:07:05
Speaker
Um, at, you know, at, you know, number one, I would say.
01:07:09
Speaker
Yeah, being ready to meet God.
01:07:11
Speaker
I think that's true.
01:07:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:15
Speaker
And the challenge with... Because I think most of us recognize that we're returning to this pre-liberal... Because basically what happened with liberalism was that the bubble demarcating inside and outside popped.
01:07:38
Speaker
And now there is no inside where that cooperative mentality is justified, but that cooperative mentality is expected to be applied universally.
01:07:48
Speaker
And that's what's creating a lot of the chaos that we see, I think.
01:07:54
Speaker
And what is being negotiated now among people who see this, I think, is
01:08:04
Speaker
Who can we cooperate with?
01:08:05
Speaker
Who's on the inside?
01:08:06
Speaker
And somebody was, I can't remember the study.
01:08:09
Speaker
It's been passed around various times, but the study basically that as, as societies increase in diversity, they decrease in social trust, even among the native population.
01:08:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:08:25
Speaker
And it's basically because you can no longer trust inside your ethnic enclave, which used to be the majority.
01:08:35
Speaker
You can no longer trust that they won't sort of use the outsiders as a cudgel against you to sort of hash out grievances and settle scores and things.
01:08:47
Speaker
And I think- I've never heard of anything like that.
01:08:50
Speaker
No, no, no.
01:08:50
Speaker
I'm being sarcastic.
01:08:51
Speaker
It's obviously... It's going on all the time.
01:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
01:08:57
Speaker
Well, it's... Basically, I think...
01:09:03
Speaker
what's happening between like the urban faction and the rural faction and the Nietzschean faction and the Christian faction and all the other sort of ways that you could slice this, like the pickup artist guys versus the the
01:09:24
Speaker
the cell, the incel or vol cells.
01:09:28
Speaker
True cells.
01:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, there you go.
01:09:32
Speaker
Is is that the other side is the useful idiots for the enemy.
01:09:39
Speaker
The other side is is just playing into the enemy's hand, either by being too conciliatory or being too inflammatory or whatever.
01:09:48
Speaker
And and I the the orientation that
01:09:55
Speaker
that I have chosen for exit, the thing that makes the most sense to me as the flag that we could all get behind is none of the other stuff that we might care about matters if we can't have grandchildren.
01:10:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:10:14
Speaker
And I know that a lot of the Nietzschean guys will say, well, it can't just be about kids.
01:10:23
Speaker
And I agree, it can't.
01:10:24
Speaker
But at minimum, your vision of the future has to include kids.
01:10:31
Speaker
Because if your memes and the genes that carry those memes are not present 100 years from now,
01:10:41
Speaker
then none of the other crap that you're talking about will matter and so uh do you need to do you need to accomplish some things for yourself yes like you you will not be immortal through your children they cannot be a a vicarious achievement um and in fact i think if your if your goal is to raise good children then
01:11:06
Speaker
a huge portion of what that means is showing them an example, being an impressive and aspirational person so that they will want the life that you are offering them, the way of life, the culture.
01:11:21
Speaker
And basically what we're up against, I think the chemical and the neurological, the toxin problem is real and we should address that.
01:11:35
Speaker
But I think more fundamentally, it's, it's a spiritual disease.
01:11:38
Speaker
I think it's just people choosing, uh, under, under pretty rarefied incentive structures to just forego this really fundamental human experience.
01:11:50
Speaker
And, and, and the task of the task of escaping this system
01:11:59
Speaker
in large part involves, well, first of all, why would we want to escape this system?
01:12:04
Speaker
I think we want to escape the system because we want to have families.
01:12:08
Speaker
We want to have healthy families.
01:12:09
Speaker
That's what this whole system militates against.
01:12:11
Speaker
That's what it's trying to tear down and destroy is our ability to reproduce physiologically, but also, and maybe more importantly, culturally.
01:12:24
Speaker
Because if, if we, if we reproduce physiologically, they can still, they can still, you know, rape and brainwash your kids.
01:12:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:31
Speaker
It's interesting.
01:12:32
Speaker
Um, what you just said, the sort of, I think it's something of a false dichotomy between the, you know, um,
01:12:41
Speaker
chemical stuff.
01:12:42
Speaker
And I, you know, I agree.
01:12:43
Speaker
I haven't really heard that much about like people trying to get, you know, obviously it happens, but it doesn't seem like, and it's a private thing.
01:12:53
Speaker
So maybe it's happening behind closed doors and you don't hear about it, but of people, you know, a huge number of people trying to get pregnant and not being able to, because of like hormonal or chemical stuff, maybe that's something coming down the pike.
01:13:06
Speaker
But it doesn't seem to be a huge issue right now.
01:13:08
Speaker
I think I agree with you that it's, um,
01:13:12
Speaker
you know, a matter of priorities and a matter of, I think, uh, uh, yeah, a matter of sort of spiritual alignment and what are, what, what are we here to do?
01:13:23
Speaker
Um, uh, yeah.
01:13:25
Speaker
And, and, and so, uh, you know, is, is what we're here to do to like, you know, um, find fulfillment through our careers and, and like, uh, I don't know, pursue, uh, pursue mindless pleasure.
01:13:38
Speaker
Uh, you know, that's what the regime tells us.
01:13:40
Speaker
And, um,
01:13:41
Speaker
And so, you know, there's no, there's, I don't see how children factors into that, like, you know, ontology.
01:13:48
Speaker
And so I think what I wanted to say was that I don't differentiate.
01:13:51
Speaker
And one of the points that I try and get across, it's very difficult to approximate, but is that I don't, yeah, I don't draw a line between like the spiritual and the physical in this, in this question.
01:14:05
Speaker
I think that like, for example, the fact that, you know, to, to, to bring up a different example, like,
01:14:11
Speaker
The fact that obesity is such an insane problem in a physical way and the fact that it's not that people are to blame for their obesity necessarily.
01:14:32
Speaker
it manifests itself through what has been foisted on us as the sort of, quote unquote, normal natural diet.
01:14:40
Speaker
The same sort of, whether it's racial or socioeconomic level, the people in the same positions who are now obese would not have been obese 50 or 60 years ago.
01:14:50
Speaker
And so it's a question of what's been sort of
01:14:58
Speaker
decided upon for you in terms of what you will, you know, what you will ingest.
01:15:05
Speaker
And like, I think that, you know, those notions of like what what food can be that have led to, you know, these sort of innovative foods like seed oils that weren't ever meant to be foods and lots of other things coming at us in that category in different ways.
01:15:25
Speaker
Like that idea
01:15:27
Speaker
And the outcome, that spiritual idea or that abstract notion of like, you know, we can just, we can manipulate things, we can, we can, you know, bend the rules of nature, break them, and it won't matter, because like technology justifies everything that we do.
01:15:45
Speaker
um or whatever and and and the physical manifestation of that in like the bodies of the obese i don't like i just you know it's like body and soul like i just i don't think of them as like separate things um yeah it's just it's like a composite like entity um and and so you know it's similar it's a similar thing with um like the fact that like sperm counts are dropping and the fact that the regime um
01:16:14
Speaker
sort of spiritually convinces people that like having children, uh, is, you know, maybe something you might do if you're like weird and traditional and like, that's cool or whatever, but like, you know, the cool kids are like, you know, uh,
01:16:29
Speaker
I don't know, like on OnlyFans or something, like creating an OnlyFans instead of, you know, not that it's gotten to that point, but, you know, there are like sort of subtle messages along those lines.
01:16:39
Speaker
And I think, you know, I'm being, I'm being a little bit exaggeratory, but, you know, certainly, certainly the messaging is that like career and, and yeah, just like material, yeah, material, material kind of,
01:16:58
Speaker
wealth and not material.
01:17:01
Speaker
The pursuit, like I was saying earlier, the pursuit of kind of mindless pleasures are what, you know, are the meaning of life, basically.
01:17:12
Speaker
And I don't think that it's actually presented to them as...
01:17:18
Speaker
better.
01:17:20
Speaker
I don't think that what especially women are being told is that a childless, careerist, wage cage life is actually better.
01:17:35
Speaker
It's more that like, he's gonna leave you, you're gonna get fat, it's gonna be so stressful, you're gonna fail.
01:17:47
Speaker
The risks are too great and therefore you should go with the, like a mother's love and the hug you get from your four-year-old isn't as reliable as your check every two weeks.
01:18:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's insanely accurate.
01:18:04
Speaker
I think the constant messaging that you'll be fat and ugly if you become pregnant, which is just not actually true.
01:18:17
Speaker
But there are obviously like, there's like Instagram, I've just seen this through the Instagram feeds of female friends where they, apropos of nothing, like a random,
01:18:33
Speaker
real or whatever will come up.
01:18:34
Speaker
That's like, you know, basically a woman who's, who has like 2 million followers, whose entire account is devoted to like, you know, like this, this sort of, you know, body positivity thing about like post post pregnancy body positivity with like stretch marks and like, you know, not having the same physique as before.
01:18:52
Speaker
And it's just like, it's like the worst case scenario.
01:18:55
Speaker
Like, you know, she just like, uh, and it's just so obviously being, you know, um,
01:19:01
Speaker
being, you know, subliminally promoted.
01:19:05
Speaker
And, and yeah, these girls just get this notion in their heads that they'll be, they'll be like used up.
01:19:10
Speaker
And, but like, the fact is that if you actually like know, you know, a random sampling of pregnant women, like most of them,
01:19:17
Speaker
Like look the same within a few months.
01:19:22
Speaker
And the deterioration, if you compare them to women who don't like this, there's certainly plenty of women who don't lose baby weight.
01:19:34
Speaker
But when, when you compare that to sort of gen pop of just the, the, the ladies who are just getting laid in their twenties and thirties and starting to gain weight, just like we all sort of do, if we don't do anything about it, like it, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to blame the baby necessarily.
01:19:53
Speaker
And I think I was talking to a lady about this natalism issue and this conference that we're putting together this year.
01:20:03
Speaker
More on that later for the listeners.
01:20:07
Speaker
And she was saying that conversations that she's had with young women, they really treat pregnancy or not, that's not even conscious.
01:20:19
Speaker
when you bring up the idea of pregnancy to some of these women, their reaction is body horror.
01:20:26
Speaker
It's like HR Geiger, like a chestburster, like this creature is going to grow inside me and destroy my body.
01:20:37
Speaker
And I think partly that's rooted in just like really bad memes, just sort of falsehoods.
01:20:47
Speaker
Um, but I think that there's a deeper issue of, if you don't view yourself as part of a whole, if you don't, if you view yourself as an individual and your status as an individual is like, that's fundamentally who you are is just you.
01:21:06
Speaker
Um, rather than being part of a family, rather than being part of a lineage and nation of, uh, uh,
01:21:14
Speaker
you know, children of God, whatever it is, then it is, it's like this outsider, it's some man's baby or something, like it's like an infestation.
01:21:30
Speaker
And so I think it goes even deeper than just like, oh, hey, they're telling you you're going to be miserable if you get pregnant.
01:21:40
Speaker
It's like fundamental to the ideology.
01:21:44
Speaker
that procreation is sort of viscerally repulsive.
01:21:49
Speaker
Yes, your godhood as an individual with the ability to transgress the laws of biology will be called into question.
01:22:03
Speaker
Right.
01:22:03
Speaker
Now that you have another entity, however they, you know, whatever weird
01:22:11
Speaker
Weird definitions then come up for that.
01:22:14
Speaker
Right.
01:22:16
Speaker
That places demands on good behavior.
01:22:18
Speaker
Like it's no longer up to you what you put into your body because the baby's going to get that.
01:22:22
Speaker
And it's no longer up to you.
01:22:24
Speaker
Like that, the abortion argument too, it's so viscerally felt because they do, they view...
01:22:39
Speaker
they view their bodily autonomy as the end-all be-all.
01:22:47
Speaker
There's no higher moral line that you can transgress than that.
01:22:54
Speaker
Yep.
01:22:56
Speaker
Yep.
01:22:58
Speaker
It makes the continuation of the human species pretty complicated if we were to all adopt that in a serious way.
01:23:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:08
Speaker
And I think, I think subconsciously it is being adopted and that's, that's kind of what we're up against.
01:23:13
Speaker
Um, so, well, this, I, I don't want to keep you too much.
01:23:17
Speaker
It's been great, great conversation, William.
01:23:19
Speaker
I appreciate you coming, uh, to talk.
01:23:22
Speaker
Uh, do you have anything that, uh, the people should know about from you?
01:23:26
Speaker
Any, any, any, uh, anything going on in your life?
01:23:32
Speaker
Not really.
01:23:32
Speaker
I continue to post.
01:23:34
Speaker
If you don't follow me, please do it.
01:23:36
Speaker
Plowman's Folly.
01:23:37
Speaker
P-L-O-U-G-H.
01:23:40
Speaker
I'm trying to write a book.
01:23:42
Speaker
We'll see what happens.
01:23:44
Speaker
It comes out in fits and starts.
01:23:47
Speaker
It's a top secret.
01:23:49
Speaker
What's it about?
01:23:51
Speaker
It's just about all of my different ideas and the stuff that I focus on, but expanding on stuff that
01:23:59
Speaker
that I've been posting about all along.
01:24:02
Speaker
Certainly farming, yes, the relationship between the sexes, the body, and maybe a bit on spirituality as well.
01:24:12
Speaker
So it sort of will be a series of essays rather than that kind of all coalesce into one theme.
01:24:22
Speaker
So look forward to that or not.
01:24:24
Speaker
It may or may not actually
01:24:26
Speaker
It may or may not actually come into existence, but hopefully it will.
01:24:29
Speaker
And hopefully you'll read it and enjoy it.
01:24:32
Speaker
But at the very least, I'll be continuing to write for our friendly publications, IM1776, Man's World, Asylum, and so on.
01:24:43
Speaker
So I have some things in the pipeline for all of those.
01:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
01:24:47
Speaker
I'm hoping to be a Man's World alum myself here shortly.
01:24:50
Speaker
So that's... Ren is a great man, a great editor, and
01:24:56
Speaker
He, yes, is doing God's work truly.
01:25:00
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And he puts in an insane amount of effort.
01:25:02
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So everybody should go and check out Man's World on Raw Ignatius' page.
01:25:09
Speaker
It's really all in it is super high quality stuff.
01:25:13
Speaker
I asked him, I did an interview with him for another guy's podcast.
01:25:16
Speaker
And I asked him like,
01:25:17
Speaker
do you have a background in graphic design?
01:25:19
Speaker
And he was like, no, I was trying my hand at it.
01:25:21
Speaker
And he's just incredible.
01:25:22
Speaker
It looks so great.
01:25:24
Speaker
Really remarkable.
01:25:28
Speaker
And he promised me no TNA in this issue, so I can gift it.
01:25:34
Speaker
Nice.
01:25:38
Speaker
Cool, man.
01:25:38
Speaker
Hey, it's great talking to you.
01:25:40
Speaker
For those of you that want to learn more about what William's doing, yeah, it's at Plowman's Folly on Twitter.
01:25:46
Speaker
And if you want to learn more about what we're doing, you can follow us at exit underscore org or check us out at exitgroup.us.
01:25:53
Speaker
Thanks, William.
01:25:53
Speaker
Good to hear from you.
01:25:54
Speaker
Thank you.
01:25:55
Speaker
Talk to you soon.