Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to OTB, a Norwich City podcast, the Norwich City show that has you in the first half, not gonna lie. I'm Ryan Livermore and on this week's pod, Norwich City showed why they're spooky, not scary this Halloween, with a turnaround that blew away the Carrow Road cobwebs of weeks gone by.
Speaker: The latest home comfort may be described as two down, three up, but the only thing moving is Norwich City up the table. We dissect the weekend as well as reveal the next two players in our Canary Countdown.
Speaker: The usual regulars are back and I can only assume our first panelist left at halftime this week so we could secure three points. It's Zoe Morgan. Zoe, were you again cursing your luck at halftime?
Speaker: i I was a, hello Ryan by the way, and hello everyone. I was slightly concerned that I had got up at 6am for no reason whatsoever at halftime on Saturday.
Speaker: um But I was over the moon by the end and i am now two thirds of the way to my win win total from last season. So things are looking up.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. And would you take more wins that have you questioning being up at 6am? Oh, definitely. I'm happy to go to a 12.30 kickoff and win the game.
Speaker: Hey, I mean, Jose Cordoba, if Zoe can't miss her alarm, why can you? is that the sentence? Did say that right? I don't know. Regardless, well done for getting up so early. And someone else who did is someone whose credibility only declines the more Anthony Basaba seems in control of his own bodily actions. It's Dan Brigham. Hello, Ryan. How you? I'm all right, thank you. How are you doing?
Speaker: I'm pretty good, thank you. Um... I thought Musaba wasn't in control of his bodily functions in the first half, but then managed to get himself a big adult nappy and was was excellent second half.
Speaker: Yeah, and he managed to shit on the Watford defence instead, which was the quite the quite the turnaround. Rather than his own defence. Yeah, which, and I mean, makes a change from Bolton at least, my goodness me.
Speaker: Where was that on the Bristol store chart? And the baby daddy of our Canary Countdown feature is back and he's in the top one for NCFC themed stat accounts. It's Steve Sanders.
Speaker: Hello, Steve. How are you after the weekend? Hello, Ryan. Very, very well, thank you. And obviously you've just given me a massive compliment there, so I'm feeling even better about things this evening. No, i think you are more than welcome. I'm not sure how many NCFC stat accounts there are, but if there's more than one, then you're number one. well And indeed, would anybody else have taken that as a compliment? Probably not, because there is it's only one, and there's probably a good reason for that. um I think if we're going to bring up Dan's Masaba, well, lack of prescience, I don't know if, well, I suppose the speedbook, I think Dan deserves some credit for his Kvist score in bet. um which, although he's only scored four, is maybe looking if Will Lancashire weren't, you know. doesn't well Well, so my bet was Chris Goran to be the Championship's leading goal scorer. Isn't Will Lancashire on 15 or something already? I think he's quite a long way ahead of Chris Goran. But, you know, he's in the team, so you can't score if you're not playing. The bubble will burst on Lancashire, no doubt, at some point. say Man United will buy him for £90 million in January. Chris Goran will pounce. And join Middlesbrough and then be the top scorer. And I still win my bets. Yeah, there we go. Works out for everyone except Norwich.
Speaker: On Masaba, going back to him, um I am big into Sam Field calling him Moose on his post-match interview on Saturday. Very much hope that sticks.
Speaker: The Moose is a great nickname. And he was a moose on the loose in the second half as well. A bootless hoose.
Speaker: Just a quick reminder, the OTB and Norwich City podcast is on Patreon and Substack for all of your extra content steering you through the 26th, 27th. season for just two pounds a month you can gain access to exclusive episodes and ad free content on patreon and substack is free and is being regularly updated through the season if the written word is as much of your thing as the spoken one and we will drop a very special patreon episode tonight as well or after this podcast ah pertaining to our top 25 countdown so do sign up if you want to hear that but let's kick off with this week's hot topic
Speaker: And that hot topic is indeed Norwich City 3 Watford 2. The Canaries coming back from 2-0 down at halftime to see off the Hornets and get their first home win since September. Zoe, as as the cliche goes, it's a game of two halves, but that really was, wasn't it?
Speaker: Absolutely was. um Very strange game in many ways. um The first half, I actually, I don't think I'm alone in this, but I would maintain that I don't think we actually played that badly in the first half, but at managed to defend very badly on like at least a couple of occasions. um the inevitability with which we conceded both of those goals. I think, you know, I think as I've demonstrated on this podcast over many years, I am no football expert, but I think both of those goals around the ball crossing the halfway line, I went, oh dear. um And then we had conceded. um Absolutely sort of
Speaker: shocking to be 2-0 down really um after what had been a decent start and certainly um going 1-0 down, they'd barely touched the ball. So it it was all a bit overwhelming come half-time, I think, just suddenly feeling like, oh God, it's happening again. Just after we got our hopes up after the Charlton game, we'd obviously, the team had sort of been a bit of a shock as well, I suppose, with the injuries that had sort of come as a bit of so a surprise.
Speaker: um but then, yeah, the second half just absolutely excellent like just such character and fight and resolve shown by the team.
Speaker: You know, some performances from players that maybe have been a bit maligned um sort of over recent weeks, like Sam Field. um And just, yeah, it was it was really incredible. And it was really what Carrow Road needed, i think, a win like that.
Speaker: Um, we've had a bit of a miserable old time, uh, over the last sort of couple of seasons, especially at home. And yeah, it was just really nice to have 3-2 win that and a comeback win that was deserved. It was, we overcame them in the second half.
Speaker: We deserve to win that game. Um, but yeah, really, really good, really impressive. I'm just, yeah, so glad that we won. You make a good point there because I thought Norwich were actually okay on the ball in that first half, Dan. It was just the the turnovers and defensively where they weren't that great, really, wasn't it? Because they they admittedly, they didn't create a ah clear-cut chance, but they certainly had one or two half opportunities. And it just was ah kind of being out of position in transition where they fell apart.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think that was absolutely abysmal, that first half. um I don't... like Compared to Charlton, we were ah abysmal in a different way. For the first 20 minutes against Charlton, we couldn't get on the ball at all.
Speaker: um And we're abysmally bad at trying to get up the pitch. Whereas first half against um Watford, yeah we were pretty decent on the ball, had a couple of chances, but both from outside the box. But you cannot defend like that and expect to get anywhere in this league, so which is why I don't really understand this sort of the suggestion that we weren't truly awful. like It's like so doing a driving test and making sure you check in all your mirrors, but you're just ploughing over a couple of pedestrians while you're going. You're not...
Speaker: ah It's not an effective way of playing. Is that not how that works? Can you not just check in mirrors and hit people? is that That's GTA. Don't play too much GTA. Easy mistakes to make. um but i Leaving your two centre-backs 2-1-2.
Speaker: two on two um three or four times in the half. Jack Stacey is literally not in the picture for our first goal. Where on earth is he? like you zoom out and you zoom out. Still can't see him. don't know where he's gone. Musaba's jogging back instead of um busting a gut to get back. Saving his energy. Yeah. yeah And um it was really poor. And the when the second goal goes in, um from more bad work from Cordoba, although, you know, as I said, being left 2v2, the two centre-backs, going to get pretty bad work sometimes. but Like, Carrow sort of felt stunned, I think.
Speaker: think because it sort of crept... in really slowly um and it looked like Grimshaw didn't sort of have arms at that stage because I'm not quite sure how he didn't get down to save it and i think the Watford fans barely reacted as well because I think they were a bit stunned um ah Yeah, we just keep finding new ways of being really, really bad because after um seemingly sort of tightening things up after the international break, we went back to being massively open in that first half. But obviously the second half um was an entire role reversal. And one thing, actually, when I um i went outside behind the South Stand car park where the, um you know, where
Speaker: have drinks and food now at half time and I walked out to this poor DJ alone on a truck with a laptop in front of him playing like a groove jet song I think it was some sort of early 2000s dance song it's so incongruous when Norwich are 2-0 down at half time it really should have been like the sound of silence or something like that um and little all did I think at that stage that we were just about to see our first comeback from 2-0 down at Carrow Road in 20 years ah Steve, most people are saying the second half is the best 45 minutes of Philippe Clement's tenure. How much do you agree with that?
Speaker: Are most people saying that? Some people, but for most people, ah for the purposes of the question, makes it seem more loaded than it actually is. But if we're going to be pedantic, ah a couple people have said that. Do you agree with them?
Speaker: um I do not agree with them. i do not i you know You know me, i love to go against the grain. So if most people are saying that, I'm going to deliberately say it wasn't. No, I don't think so. i It's difficult to say. I mean, i I sort of feel a little bit... This was more of...
Speaker: You know, this was more of a James A. Caster turning himself in than a faithful masterclass in terms of this win because I thought Watford handed it to us more than we kind of wanted. Oh, come on.
Speaker: No, I mean, the goals the goals are good, but I do... i i' And it's an excellent turn. Don't get me wrong, some serious grit and cojones needed to get that win. The goals were taken really well and they played a lot better than they did in the second half. Let's be fair, pretty much the same team that came out and can't remember when our first sub was made. Were we 3-2 up at that point? I think maybe we were. Yeah, was after Maguire scored. He came off with Brooks.
Speaker: So give them credit for that. But Watford looked so poor to me. I sort of sit somewhere between Dan and Zoe on the first half, I think.
Speaker: ah sounds Sounds like ah a fence maybe that you're sitting LAUGHTER We sit quite a long way apart in the South Stand. So somewhere in those like one hundred or so seats, that's where I am.
Speaker: Because I do agree that those two, you like you can't be a serious team and concede those two goals. But I think that aside, we have looked a lot worse this season. I did not pick us to come back and win 3-2 in that game for sure. But I think broadly speaking,
Speaker: we we did create chances. We were good for the first nine minutes before the first goal went in. But yeah, the it's still alarming to be like, oh but great that we get the three points. I don't feel any more sure that we're a side equipped to finish in the top eight this season, having seen that, other than the that we've got three more points and something clearly does still need fixing at the back. um But maybe we need to just...
Speaker: be at home with the fact that it's just going to be fun this season and actually does it matter if we finish in the top eight as long as we enjoy the ride maybe it doesn't and maybe we if we come around to that way of thinking it'll all be okay when we lose 3-1 at Derby tomorrow night laughter I don't think it matters until we look at the table after game 46 and we're 30.
Speaker: And then it all then it all matters. It's trending that way, isn't it? Exactly, yeah. yeah ah Let's go through the individual. Zoe, you requested in our chat earlier to ah brought wax lyrical about Matthias Kvist-Goran. So please wax lyrical.
Speaker: Yes, please. Although I'm, God, slightly had the air knocked out of me after these two have been so miserable about it. I didn't get to talk about the second half. I was under instruction to talk about the first half. We were rubbish in the second half, admit it. Come on.
Speaker: i thought that ah Chris Goran's performance in the second half in particular was one of the most stirring individual performances I have seen from a Norwich City player in quite some time.
Speaker: am I was absolutely dazzled by him. i thought he was incredible. You could see him getting wound up. You could see he'd been bullied all first half by these giant men that kept sort of bashing him around the head every time he jumped for the ball.
Speaker: And it was like, he was just suddenly like, no, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to allow this to happen anymore. So I'm going to turn into like a man possessed. He tried to two foot, at least two Watford players within about a minute. um And then just suddenly went nuts. Like the,
Speaker: he And it was just so much what we have been absolutely gagging for in terms of you know players fighting for the team and for the shirt. you know had a lot of this sort of disconnect chat and and all of that you know that. There was nothing he wanted more than to put in an excellent performance for the team and to make something happen.
Speaker: on Saturday. um He had no right to win, especially the header for our first goal. Like he jumps about six feet higher than a man that's already two feet taller than him. Like it's ridiculous.
Speaker: um The amount, you know, physically he must've put his body through so much in terms of the aerial performance jewels that he was having, the amount he was running. um And he was just making things, like he he just made things happen. And it I just thought it was brilliant when we scored, um when Musaba scored his goal and Chris had put in um that amazing past pass for the assist.
Speaker: He just had his own sort of little celebration on the halfway line. was mobbed by some of the defence, like, you could tell how much he cared and he could tell how much he was into it. um And I just thought, that's what that that's what we need. We need players that really care and make something happen because they really care.
Speaker: um And, you know, I've been as guilty as lots of people for thinking that our other two strikers are maybe ahead of him in the pecking order and maybe they still are. But he really does offer something um a little bit different and something um really exciting I think and you can really tell how much he's growing into the league and working out how he is going to get success from this league um and I just yeah I loved it I thought I thought it was brilliant and he was I think it finally think he was finally done in when uh Makama came on and was barely needing to jump for some of the balls that he needed to do
Speaker: And then you could just see like him going, no, I'm too tired. No, i'm too tired. I need to go off. And but he was, he, you know, he deserved to have an excellent sleep on Saturday night. um And I'm just, yeah, I'm just, I was just so impressed by him. I just thought it was, it was brilliant.
Speaker: and it's It's hard not to be delighted for Chris Goran as well with the context of what's come before. you know When he joined, for however much money it was, I think he was rumoured to have firm clubs in the Bundesliga after him. And he would have feasibly been thinking this time a year ago, what the hell have I done you know joining this absolute rabble? And I don't think...
Speaker: you know I don't fully know, but I think it's fair to assume he wasn't fully fit at any point last season. you know and I think we can see the the work rate, the stamina, the effort that he can put in over, well, not 90 minutes because no one gets 90 minutes in our attack, but over 70 minutes.
Speaker: and He chases every ball. He goes into every attack. I remember... like I think it might have been Birmingham at home where he went in for a challenge in the first minute with the goalkeeper. where i thought, what are you doing? You're just going to injure yourself again. But it sort of doesn't come into his way of thinking. And what he does have that I don't think either of our other two excellent strikers have got is that eye for a pass and the ability to create goals as as well as score them.
Speaker: The pass for the second goal is an unbelievable assist. To do that on the turn on your weaker foot, play into space. We did it really well all second half, playing Musava into space. Magomi did it really well as well. I couldn't be happier for him because I think he's really earned this. Obviously, had the difficult start in terms of the club and then suddenly found himself third choice in the pecking order. has stuck around, has seen that Dan's put a 33-1 bet on him and is making hay. So, I'm with Zoe, could not be happy for the guy. It's a shame it's not goals and assists, that bet, because he's obviously got few assists. And the one for Misaba was unbelievable, that assist. Obviously, Misaba had a lot of work to do, but equally the one against Charleston, Magoma's goal as well, lovely weighted pass. And even...
Speaker: uh magoma's goal on saturday like he's got his head up and squared it perfectly into the path like god bless him but can you imagine jack stacy in that same situation on the right is he definitely picking out magoma in that situation no he's not to the back post it's probably going out for a throw in um with uh god bless him all due respect to him um so inside It felt like at times he had on Saturday. Has he died during this podcast? um So he's kind of, he's pretty clinical now with and composed with his ah passing. Having said that, of their first goal does come from him, not holding the ball up very well, but there's still lots to work on. I do think that was part of why he was so like driven to, like you could see how frustrated he was when they scored.
Speaker: I would say both goals were, yeah involved a failure to hold the ball up at one point and then um other things happened. So I don't think it was his fault. But ah yeah, you could see he was frustrated um and and that sort of seemed to spur him on, I think. Sorry, Ryan, know you want to move on, but just on that first goal, and I do i do agree with Dan that Stacey's been caught upfield a lot of the time. I don't think... i Like he has bombed on and he was not picked out, I think by Brooks, who sort of felt like he should have played him and came inside and Magoma gives the ball away. So um I'm sort of sticking up for Stacey on this one. but i don't
Speaker: There have been times when his runs have been badly timed, that's for sure. But I do think that one wasn't his fault. Like he he made the run a fullback, should make, he wasn't picked out and then he gave the ball away in a bad position.
Speaker: Why is he not back at all? he's He was like in row K of the River End. Why is he not quicker than Usain Bolt, for goodness sake?
Speaker: Honestly, Jack, get your head out your ass, mate, please. um Well, Dan, anyone else stick out for you? ah and Particularly in that second half, I thought Ben Kraseni was excellent again, and Paris Magoimer very much grew into that half as well.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, Chris, any after a tiny little dip, I think ah it looks really good again, as probably as i would say certainly been our best defender across the piece. I mean, obviously, um that may not be saying a lot, but I think he has been good. He's he's grown um and he's keeping two other good left backs out of the starting 11. But yeah, think.
Speaker: Musabra, thought, second half ah alongside Chris Goran really led the charge. He was picking the ball up a bit deeper. We were finding him better. And i don't know what his instructions were at halftime, but it felt like just leg it, just run at that defence. And he just kept running at them, pushing them back, pushing them back.
Speaker: That was excellent. Magoma, I thought, was good for the majority of the game, actually, two games running. Obviously, caveat that with being Chelsea and Watford, who are pretty both pretty poor, very poor teams. um But unlike Slomani, who's a sort of moments player, Magoma really...
Speaker: kind dictates stuff in that in that role, manages to slow the game down or speed the game up, um gets um that front four playing with a bit more rhythm. So it was encouraging to that he's got two good games under his belt now and scored in both as well. And a word for, I don't know, I'm running through everyone, but a word for um our central midfield pair in that game, because I think we all got kittens when we saw that Kenny and Mattson were injured and unavailable and were worried about ah the mobility of Wright and Field together. But after being sort of a bit too far apart at times in the first half, in the second half, they...
Speaker: um they were winning everything. Even Wright was just winning his duels. I saw that we won more ground duels than anyone else in the championship this weekend as well. I haven't looked, but I can imagine most of those were the second half. um But even in the first half, like, Magoma's chance where he's put it wide, it comes from field winning the ball up ball back high up the pitch. I thought those two worked really well and I'm sure like we've probably said on this podcast several times that feel probably we don't want him starting but if he plays with a sort of intensity and intelligence that he did on
Speaker: ah particularly in the second half on Saturday. You know, he's never going to be the best player on the ball, but if you'd stood next to Jacob Wright, who is good on the ball, then suddenly you're kind of thinking, well, maybe there is a bit of hope if Kenny is out for a long time.
Speaker: Again, caveating it with Watford were absolutely dreadful in that second half. More timid than I've seen us play this season, I think. But very encouraging signs, though, in that midfield pair.
Speaker: A few of those players at the end of the game tried to head straight down the tunnel, Steve. Is there a sign there that despite the the two wins, there is still this disconnect? And I guess the players are partially hurting from the the comments the week before about you're not with fit to wear the shirt and and all of that. And do they have a right to still kind of be hurt and be not dismissive, but um not as engaged with with everything?
Speaker: I don't know. I mean, it's slightly odd, I think, that you kind of think that's the bit you want to enjoy, isn't it? Like, regardless of how you feel towards the fan base, you don't get to celebrate wins in the championship all that often, especially at the moment. So I'm surprised that they don't want to stay on the pitch, but at the same time, it's their prerogative to walk down the tunnel if that's what they want to do. But I guess as a professional footballer in this day and age, you probably know that people are going to notice that. And there might be a minor backlash, particularly as, you know, they know a lot of them were here last season and they know the deal. that That's what we do. We go around and we do the the fist pumps and the OLA's at the end of the game. So...
Speaker: It doesn't bother me a whole lot. you know As long as we're winning, I don't really mind. And at the moment we are. So and um I wouldn't read too much into that. The same as I wouldn't read too much into Paris Magoma, sort of obdurately not celebrating really important goals. um you know it ah it's It's up to individual players and and maybe it'll all come out in a couple of months' time that you know this was the start of our downfall and we should have seen the signs and you know things were not right. But it feels a little bit obvious to me, I think, if if players are doing stuff like that and things aren't going well. Maybe they just all needed poos, full-time poos.
Speaker: And I would say that all that's faffing around us take forever these days. like I seem to leave the ground later and later at every match. um And they were all absolutely exhausted. So I do wonder whether some of them just wanted to go and have a rest. um But yeah, it's...
Speaker: if I mean, it was nice to see Ali Ahmed walking around the pitch and it was nice to see Pella Mattson, who had obviously not played any part in the match, sort of walking around puning punching the air as if he'd, a you know, he'd got a goal and an assist and they'd have been a full part of it. So, you know, i think think like Steve, you can you can read as much into it as you want to, i would say at this stage, especially. Yeah.
Speaker: Maybe they heard the announcer after the game say that it was Watford 2, Norwich City 3 and thought they were at the wrong ground. Maybe they'd got i just have to head to Vicarage Road. I thought we should probably give the points back after that happened.
Speaker: Shall we have a stat attack?
Speaker: Very exciting news, everyone. we've We've got a guest presenter for Stuff to Talk, like SNL have. So over to Benedict Cumberbatch or something. No, it's Dan. It's Dan. So over to you, Dan.
Speaker: Thank you, Steve. um And as someone who you've only got to see at GCSE Maths. um Can I take this off you? It's it's a real honour to be guesting on the stat attack right now and I just wanted to look at our clean sheet situation what with us now not having kept a clean sheet in the league for 20 matches and spoiler alert despite me being a big fan of the we'll just score more than you method of winning football matches these stats will unfortunately suggest that clean sheets are a good thing actually um I've taken a little wider look at our clean sheet game in the championship. It's not good. Since we were relegated, we've played 199 championship matches, which is quite depressing. But, you know, happy anniversary on on Tuesday night. In that time, we've kept 49 clean sheets. So that's a clean sheet once every 4.7 games. Not disastrous, but to give in some context, that number in Daniel Farker's first season when we finished a very disappointing fourteenth we still managed to keep 15 clean sheets, which is a clean sheet every three games, considerably better than the 4.7 games we are on now. Now, if we look at our clean sheetage from the start of Torux coming in at 2024-25, we've played 105 matches. And you guys want to guess how many clean sheets we've kept in
Speaker: a more than that. must be. 12, 21. Zoe? I said five. zo mean i said five oh you were being funny. So five. in games. using for another useful bit of context. in his title winning season, we kept clean sheets. I don't know about you, but 18 clean sheets in a single season feels better than 17 clean sheets in 105 matches. But it still gets worse. If we narrow it down a little more, Norwich have kept 16 clean sheets in our last 100 games, 12 in our last 75, and 8 in our last 50.
Speaker: And for the fans of consistency and neatness, that means we've kept a clean sheet once every 6.25 games throughout the last 175 and games. And for added context, that is really shit. But it still gets worse.
Speaker: With just three clean sheets in our last 25 games, we're now averaging one clean sheet every eight or nine matches. And that equates to just five clean sheets across an entire season, fewer than we managed when we were last relegated from the Premier League.
Speaker: However, I will finish on a bit of good news. The last time we went 20 matches without a clean sheet was during the 2011-12 Premier League season, and that went pretty well. So there is some hope. But it does feel like maybe we need to bring back the spirit of Sebasson's clean shits sooner rather than later. Wow. Outstanding work. No, no, there is more. There is more.
Speaker: but but Yeah, that's ah that's incredible. I was going and not to not, I mean, not to to cast aspersions on all of your data collection, because that's very impressive. I did it by counting Wikipedia pages, the results on Wikipedia pages. I would like to know how everybody else, you know, over that period of time, how everybody else has, i i know that other some people do keep clean sheets, but like are people keeping fewer than they would have done?
Speaker: Was my Daniel Farker context not good enough for you? Yeah, but we were good then, weren't we? Probably won the title. This is what happens when you when you reel out a load of stats, Dan. People then say, yes, but they need more. You need to do more data mining. I'm just curious. I still think, yeah, I mean, I get your point. I get your point. It's bad.
Speaker: I think that's my favourite segment of the podcast we've had since it started, to be honest. I was just just absolutely in awe. You did look very impressed throughout. And I really enjoyed it. It wasn't enough for Zoe either. That sort glazed look in my eye. um i'm keeping I'm sort of keeping my powder dry on the clean sheets stuff. By the way, an impressive number of times you said clean sheets as well. because we're on 23, I think, without one at the moment. and Including cup games. Including cup games. And that Lambert run was 24. So after the Portsmouth game, when we got promoted through to basically that halfway through that season, I went to Chelsea. And it was also 24 in the Premier League season under Worthington. Yeah.
Speaker: And a little bit at the end of the championship as well. ah Going back about 60 years, that's as big as it gets. So if if we don't keep, if if this time next week we're on the pod we haven't kept one, then it will be a pretty long time since it's been that bad. Not to piss in your porridge, was it 24 under Worthington? was it 24 for a win? Because they've got a couple of nil-nils that season. they just couldn't win for anything. For anything.
Speaker: frantically rolls through the spreadsheet uh it was 24 according according to my data they were nil nil against west brom uh on the 16th of october and then they didn't keep one until they beat manchester united two now oh wow on the 9th of april so it went about six months in the season wow epically bad Really sullies Alex Ferguson's reputation, I'd say.
Speaker: Couldn't score against Simon Charlton. Come on, man. Take that knighthood off him. I do have a few more stats that are obviously completely paling into a comparison from what we've heard. There's not ah not anywhere near um as much data. Sort of following on from what Dan said, but with ah a little bit of a silver lining about the ah what we're doing at the other end, only West Ham and Cheltenham have been involved in more goals in the EFL than Norwich City this season. 47 goals.
Speaker: in 13 games. that's That's pretty good, isn't it? And then most of the rest of them are about Kvist-Goran. He has more goal involvements than any other Norwich City player this season now. He has eight, four goals and four assists. Toure with seven. um And he has two goal involvements, i.e. goal or assist, in both of the last two games. First player to do that for us since Teemu Pukki in 2021.
Speaker: And Chris Goran to my coma, first time the same player has assisted the same goal scorer in back-to-back games since Kenny to Sainz in 2024, so two and a half years ago. um And speaking of Kenny, these were our first league points without him. since Portsmouth away in August 2025, Liam Manning's first away game. it was previously six ah defeats in a row in the league without Kenny.
Speaker: So at least that monkey's off our back. a Field for captain forever. Yeah, who needs him? Who needs Kenny now? Yeah. The stats don't, we don't. That was stat attack.
Speaker: The numbers are coming, so you better watch your back and get ready for the stat attack. Now it's time for Sophie Leaney's One Word of the Week. Phoenix.
Speaker: phoenix
Speaker: And also time for our Canary Countdown. i' will hand you over to Steve Sanders for more jingles. Jesus, it really is back-to-back jingles, isn't it? It's Notman's class.
Speaker: It's Roberts!
Speaker: Redman! It's two! It's TT!
Speaker: Yes, thank you, Ryan. We've taken residency in the Legends Lounge again. It's like the Lion in Castle, but with comfier chairs. A few of our heroes have seen themselves in already. Mario Vrancic and Borca Sainz are having a chat about manscaping. Dion's admiring the wrought iron banisters going up to the toilets. And Malky's at the bar regaling the rest of the group with a few off-coloured jokes. It must be the Canary Countdown, but which two former or possibly current Norwich City greats are going to gain admission and join the gang for a Scotch or non-alcoholic lime and soda? Entry is simple but also pretty exclusive. You just have to have made it into the top 25 greats of this century, as voted for by you and you and you and you and you and 388 other City fans over the summer.
Speaker: We're now up to numbers 17 and 16, meaning that by the end of this podcast, we'll have given you the names of 10. Norwich City Legends. A reminder, Zoe, Dan and Ryan don't know who's coming up, so won't have the faintest clue what they're talking about. That seems a bit too easy to make a gag out of that one, so I'll leave it. um So, guys, are you ready for number 17?
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: To wrestle Martin
Speaker: Beautiful Yep, it's former flavour of the month Russell Kenneth Alexander Martin Not just a list of names of middle-aged British men But also the name of a former footballer born in Brighton In January 1986 He joined Norwich City in what year? Ryan? 2009 Correct, from what club? Dan?
Speaker: Oh, why did I get that one? Correct. Initially on loan before making his move permanent in 2010. He left the club in what year? Zoe? He's still here for another 63 years. With his contract being brutally terminated before he joined who? Ryan? Ryan?
Speaker: Oh, MK Dons. Walsall. Walsall. Walsall, yeah. A tough one. A tough one. and Martin was Paul Lambert's first signing as Norwich City manager, joining outside the transfer window in the pre-Games Gone Days. He quickly became a key part of Lambert's double promotion winning team at right back, playing in every game as the Canaries were promoted to the Premier League in 2012 and coming second in the player of the season vote that year.
Speaker: He took over as club captain after Grant Holt left in 2012. Although it wasn't team captain, said Bassong, if you people remember randomly shared that with him. Don't quite understand that. And then moved over to centre-back, playing in 48 of the club's 49 league games as they were promoted to the Premier League again in 2015. Some stuff followed after that. But Dan, initial reactions, please, to the news, the huge news that Russell Martin is at number 17.
Speaker: Well, I should start by saying that Zoe guessed Russell Martin as one of the two that we'd be talking about tonight. I did. One of the people as ever. My initial reaction is I thought he'd be a tiny bit higher, but then also it feels about right, I suppose, for a defender who ah scored... a couple of iconic goals, but not that many, um, was often the face of defeats as well. Cause he got wheeled out by the club to, um, chat through why we'd just been beaten five, one at at Brighton with his, uh, with his family in the stands as well.
Speaker: Um, Yeah, unbelievable club servant, obviously one of the a few in the modern era to play over 300 times um for the club.
Speaker: I thought he was probably at his most effective when he said i had legs and was a very good right back, but then sort of turned himself into um ah ah good centre back for...
Speaker: up until maybe the sort of last two or three seasons of his career. I think I'm right in saying he has more Premier League appearances than in anyone else at Norwich. I think. I assume you've got that one lined up, Steve. Jodding by your face, maybe not. Yeah. Which is for someone, you know, who isn't the most talented player we've ever seen at Carrow Road.
Speaker: um It feels like a kind of player who made the very most of his talent that he was given was clearly a leader on the pitch. Maybe... maybe Potentially less of a leader in in some circumstances when it came to the end of some managers' careers. um But there's no doubt that um he was ah sort of a man to so re like rely on in in in bad situations. I think he sort of would often take it upon himself to try and turn things around. um
Speaker: But I suppose one person to compare him to is Kenny McLean, sort club legends, both played over 300 games. Is that right? Has Kenny got 300? No, yeah know not quite. no But kenny see very got the last season yes yes did yeah so um but yet Kenny seems to be held in a bit, I don't know, like just people love Kenny a little bit more than maybe they loved Russell Martin. Not quite sure why. um But yeah, proper servant for this football club and fully deserving a place in in the top 20, I think.
Speaker: Probably at his best when he still had legs is such a great epitaph for us. When I was there at that defeat at Millwall when he very much did not have legs anymore. Yeah, they just didn't have legs. and And I can confirm that he does hold the all-time record for Premier League appearances. 125, is it? Is correct, yes.
Speaker: goodness Wow, i'm really on the stat straight today. put me out of door And I said that Kenny hadn't played 300 games. Just a disgrace myself. Can I just say quickly, Dan, you are now my favourite Norris City stat. Sorry, I knew it wouldn't take much. yeah You've never liked me, have you, Ryan? on then, Zoe. Tell us why Russell is exactly where you thought he would be.
Speaker: um Well, only exactly where I thought he would be this morning. Maybe maybe we'll find out on the Patreon bonus pod where I thought he might be overall. um he Yeah, it's an interesting... That comparison with Kenny is a really interesting one, and I wonder whether actually it's sort of quite similar now, but Russell Martin has had sort of deal with what came next, I suppose, and he's sort of become a bit of a...
Speaker: Parody's too hard a word, I suppose, but like his managerial ethos and sort of what's happened in his career so so far um as a manager has sort of, I guess, taken the edge off what he was like as a player. um And it's sort of, it's very difficult.
Speaker: As we've talked about with with a few of these players that have been retired for a while, like it's it's difficult to isolate just the playing career when there's other things that have happened sort of since, but his time at Norwich city, like, you know, I remember him turning up when Lambert signed him and it was like this guy that Peterborough don't even want, like he'd been sort of cast out by Peter and it's like, Oh,
Speaker: this is who we're signing now. And, you know, from the very start, it felt like he, you know, he really got going and he sort of, he made us, it sort of made us feel quite professional. I think, you know, a time when we sort of had a bit of a ragtag team and the vibe of that team was not necessarily sort of yeah, I don't know. It was a bit more vibey than potentially anything else, but he was always such a sort of straightforward professional footballer cared as Dan said, would be, would be there to talk about defeats. He'd be there to talk about anything else.
Speaker: um But he's had some really wonderful moments sort of throughout his time at Norwich thinking to the time when he had to get the private jet with Delia when he was, how he'd had a baby up to Anfield and then we got a result at Anfield and He scored. He scored, yes, and did the baby celebration. And yeah, it was, a yeah, I think like there's there's a lot you can talk about with Russell Martin. And I think that's that's why he's in this list because he was part of some really special sides for Norwich City this this century. And, you know, he's a really important part of that. He was captain for a lot of it. So yeah, it's it is no great surprise to see him.
Speaker: see him in this list and i I think he was one of the ones I was most curious about actually thinking where they would finish because I presumed he would be in the list but I i wasn't i thought I thought he could finish anywhere from like top six or seven to 25th probably um you never know And he's pretty much pretty much bang in the middle of that. um I mean, he did only come from Peterborough's second team, but he was replacing John Ottsenmerboar. So I think anything might have been a bit of an upgrade after that. Ryan, can you remember the good times with Ross?
Speaker: I can. i can. ah Particularly, liz Zoe said, at the start of his Norwich career. I mean, I think we only really started to see the decline ah the after our second promotion, after the Wembley promotion, where I think he was just a little bit too far out of his depth, particularly as he was sort of favoured more as a centre-back, which, by the way, I thought in that that first Paul Lambert season, which we've spoken about for the distinct lack of clean sheets, I thought he was actually very good at centre-back that year and sort of had to go there as and as ah a bit of a stopgap and made that position his own for the most part and then proceeded to sort of play there most of the time since. I mean, ah when when he was at his best, I think he was just very much 7 10 player
Speaker: all the way across the board, like wasn't the quickest, but wasn't particularly slow either. Wasn't technically the best, but, you know, would still had a little bit about him and would happily put his foot in. And and yeah, I mean, it was a ah natural leader and you, you,
Speaker: As much as the bad times towards the end of his Norwich career may tarnish some of the the good things, I don't think it's ah deniable that he is a ah club legend. You know, he's made the most ever Premier League appearances for the club, for goodness sake. So it i think that kind of yeah everyone knows that so I think that kind of speaks for itself, which is why I haven't put him in my list. But that's going to say. I'm going to say, through, I would like like to add me being a complete idiot and forgetting him because I think this is roughly where he should be on on the list on the whole but because defenders don't tend to get there their flowers in on these these kind of things. But, I mean, you would...
Speaker: but bite your arm off for a prime Russell Martin in this in this current Norwich defence, wouldn't you? So I think that that kind of might not be saying much, but all of this is to say ah very good defender and will go down in history as one of the the best I think the club has has had in the modern era for sure. Well, yeah, ah ah definitely a prime Russell Martin because of Russell Martin without legs is is not getting back at the speed to that Stacey was travelling at for that first goal. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, Ali Coombe says that he was a real leader with real passion for the club, which I think is fair enough. And the highest anyone put him, firsts, but a second from Alec.
Speaker: and Although Alec did also say that Aaron Wilbraham was his favourite player of the 2011-12 season and put him 22nd in his list. So I don't know if we can take anything he says seriously. But yeah, a fan of Russell Martin and Aaron Wilbraham.
Speaker: Why not? OK, I think that's Russ done. So let's move on to our number 16.
Speaker: I mean, seems like the kind of music that Tim Crawford would into, right? 100%. mean, someone should send this to him. Have you guys ever heard the the Mario Gomez Europop song?
Speaker: No. There might be a niche one for the listeners as well. There was a pop song made in honour of Germany striker Mario Gomez, and it follows a... The tone really is a bit different, but I feel like I could hit hear that playing in clubs in Eindhoven and Amsterdam. LAUGHTER Okay, well, for for the lawyers, I did not use that for the basis of this song. I've never heard that song before. Timothy Michael Krul, born in The Hague, Netherlands in April 1988. He joined Norwich City in what year? I think we're on Dan? 2018. Correct. From Zoe...
Speaker: Another team. Potentially Newcastle? I would have said Newcastle, but it wasn't. Brighton? Brighton is correct. Yeah, completely forgot me was there. And left the club in what year, Ryan? 2023. correct to join, Dan?
Speaker: oh
Speaker: It's always Stoke City. Stoke? It's always Stoke City, except this time. Anyone else? Luton. Correct. Luton Town in the Premier League, I think. um Cruel played every league minute in Norwich City's title winning season in 2018-19. And after a shaky start, became a much loved part of Daniel Farker's team. He was one of the few players to enhance his reputation the following season when the Canaries were relegated from the Premier League, saving four penalties, two of them at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in a shootout on the way to becoming Norwich City's Player of the Season. Krul won a league title under Farker for the second time in 2020-21. conceding just 26 goals in his 37 games. um
Speaker: Just to go back to that comparison, they've conceded 31 already this season, incidentally. and Ryan, it's a goalkeeper, so it feels only right to give you the first word on that, on Tim Crawford. ah Well, good.
Speaker: Is that one word? Not one word. Yeah, can have it. Hyphenate it. Thank you. ah Yeah, do you know what? i in my opinion, i think Tim Krull is the best goalkeeper Norwich have had in the 21st century. If you look at what he did at the football club and his career prior to that as well, ah which is not something I would have said during his first season or guess I would have said during his first season where, I won't lie to you, i was for the first couple months very, very sceptical. But I do think he, in the end, was a very, very crucial part of that promotion winning side, not least because his experience helped ah such a young back four. And I mean, what he did do at the football club kind of speaks for itself. He was he was excellent in that first year
Speaker: in the Premier League, despite all of the results, and was probably the reason Norwich got as many points as they did. And even the games that they lost, there was a Man United game at home where he he saved two penalties in that game, which I think should have been retaken, if we're being honest. but But in that game as well, he made one of the best saves I've ever seen a goalkeeper make at Carrow Road, which doesn't really get spoken about that much either.
Speaker: He just had, again, had everything and seemed to get better with every game he played for Norwich. And then, i guess, it's towards the end of that twenty two twenty three season, just wasn't fancied really by David Wagner and ah maybe because his lack of ability to kind of beta press and and play out. But I think ultimately, as goalkeepers go, you another free agent that goes under the radar free transfer yeah I mean what what else is there to say I think he is the best goalkeeper Norwich have had in this ah excuse me this century and the ultimately the amount of appearances he's made and the amount of points he arguably have won ah kind of speaks for itself really
Speaker: And you can find out whether Ryan also forgot to put him in his top 25 by listening to our Patreon podcast out later this week. Zoe, um anything to add to that? Well, I would add that ah Daniel Brigham predicted that we will be talking about Tim Krul tonight. So we are one each in our predictions for this evening.
Speaker: um Yeah, i ah I love Tim Krul. I think... um When we were talking about John Ruddy earlier in this countdown, I think one of the things that we said about him, not why wouldn't he have been higher, was perhaps that he was not a as eccentric as some people like from their goalkeepers. I think Tim Krull was definitely an eccentric. um He was a bit mad.
Speaker: um He made some strange decisions sometimes, ah but he really... He really cared. You could tell he was really into it Some of his celebrations, you know, when we were winning games were excellent.
Speaker: um And we will always have that game at the Tottenham Spurs Stadium where he got his water bottle out. um And um it was one of the last games, I think it was the last game I went to before COVID. um But just an incredibly special night, especially for that team who, you know, were were're under the cosh big time in the league. It just felt like...
Speaker: just such a special occasion. um And he was at the heart of that. So yes, thrilled that he's in the list. um And yeah, um it's, there's plenty to talk about with Krul, I think in terms of, because he was, yeah, part at the heart of one of the most memorable teams that we've had in long time. But was also, Dan, unfortunately part of this disgraceful clean sheet record that you've referred to. Or been a relatively small part, I think.
Speaker: um Yeah, it felt like he didn't really have to do much in that 2021 season where it felt like he had to do a lot in the 18-19 season, which I think, I mean, it felt like a coup when we brought him in, I think on it free, wasn't it? It'd been released maybe by Brighton. um bringing in the guy who had been brought on by Louis louis van Gaal in the World Cup for the Netherlands in what, the last minute of extra time just for a penalty shootout and then to win that penalty shootout. It felt like that sort of calibre of player was well beyond us by that point. um
Speaker: And despite some very dodgy moments in the 18-19, that first home game of the season, think West Brom when he's chucked one in, that Millwall 4-3 where he's had a bit of a disaster that we somehow seem to find the only Dutchman who wasn't good with the ball at his feet he was ah despite being so i worked at the club at that time when he was there despite being a very normal bloke off the field in my you know few interactions with him he was like very enjoyably as Zoe says mad on the field ah but more than that he was also a proper leader on the field as well behind a very, very, very young back line. And I think maybe despite how erratic he could be in eighteen nineteen if we still had, say, and a young Angus Gunn or um a younger goalkeeper in there, I'm not sure we would have got the title that season or top two. I think having someone with that experience and that leadership at the back was almost just as important Wundir or Pukki in the front line. So yeah, incredible. Everyone, we always remember Pukki as one of the great free signings, rightly so, but Krul is almost up there with him, I'd say, as well.
Speaker: His leg had basically sort of come off before he signed for us, wasn't that? He'd had a bad injury. A bad injury. You're saying he also had no legs? Yeah, no legs. But we believed that he could grow them back, and he did. And he did grow, yeah, against all medical advice, grew his own legs back. What are they smoking, eh, in the Netherlands, for that to happen? LAUGHTER and I mean, we did find another player from the Netherlands who couldn't control ball, Sidney van Hooydonk. So the only two in history have been with us. um So Ben, who lives in Edinburgh, said a big game player and definitely the best penalty saver we've had at the club in my lifetime. um I think this whole segment belongs to Jack Benjamin, who was the only person who put him in first and on left...
Speaker: One comment, and it was all about Tim Krul, and he says, Tim Krul dancing to his compatriots, the Wenger boys during promotion celebrations was iconic. And since I just moved to Amsterdam, the moment was a nice link between my new and old home. He was also extremely committed when things were going badly, turning down in the a Netherlands call up to concentrate on club matters when Norwich were in a relegation battle. And then there was the fact he was a real penalty killer.
Speaker: The time he saved two in one match against Manchester United was real highlight in a season where there weren't really many for the Canaries. So thank you, Jack. That's the kind of that's the kind of eulogy that we would definitely... Calling it a relegation battle. We weren't mathematically down at that point, so we were still battling in inverted commas. And that was our Canary Countdown. It's Notman's class.
Speaker: It's Roberts! Redman! It's two! It's TT!
Speaker: No home comforts for a while. Before the next international break, Norwich have two more away trips to contend with. It's Derby away on Tuesday before continuing their adventures cross-country to Bristol City on Saturday.
Speaker: Two very different propositions, with the former firmly the out-of-form team in the championship and the latter decidedly middling, although... They find themselves with just two home wins this season in all competitions, losing the rest at the time of recording.
Speaker: Zoe, yeah is the phrase turning point too strong after Saturday? And is this, if if so, ah is tomorrow the chance to really make it a turning point?
Speaker: Three in a row would be would be great, wouldn't it? um A real turnaround, which would be lovely. ah would warn everyone I am going to Bristol City, so um oh probably we need to... No point doing the pod next month.
Speaker: Probably need to try and get the three points at Derby when I am not there to ruin everything. Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity. I mean, we've said this over the last few weeks, we we are in this slightly favorable run of fixtures. Um,
Speaker: type of fixtures that if you win them people like Steve say well they were rubbish so it didn't really count um or so we we should try and take this opportunity if we possibly can mean the presence of Shane Duffy at Derby is quite terrifying because no one can predict what Shane Duffy is going to do least of all Shane Duffy i am slightly worried that he will play and have a blinder um But yeah, I i ah really, really hope that they can take something out of these last couple of games and and do something with it.
Speaker: um Because if they do have designs on finishing in that top eight, um this is the sort of run, little mini run that we need to start stacking up. So um yeah, fingers crossed.
Speaker: ah Dan looking at Derby stats this season they're currently second bottom in the championship and at home they've played six drawn two and lost four so along come Norwich right well we've said that the last two games haven't we uh because Watford were winless or are winless away from home they're still winless away from home uh I am surprised that John Eustace is still Derby County manager, just given the reaction that when I had a little look at the Derby County hashtag on Twitter. But they are in the midst of a mega injury crisis, hence why Shane Duffy has turned up in in the Midlands.
Speaker: um But that injury crisis, I don't think, has eased ahead of Tuesday night's game. So it does feel like a proper opportunity. Apart from getting smashed by Swansea at home, their defeats have all been by one goal.
Speaker: Although one of those, when they lost to West Brom 1-0, West Brom had been down to 10 men for 60 minutes and Derby still couldn't score. um And i think I think I'm right in saying under Clement last season we were good at winning these sort of games and hopefully after the Bolton and Portsmouth debacles and you know spells of being really bad against um Charlton and Watford, we've shown that we've got enough about us to ah beat teams that we kind of should be expecting to beat, I think, without with all due respect. um
Speaker: to Derby County who were last season finished above us finished 8th and were very very strong so their sort of ah tailing form has taken a lot of people by surprise I think this season and i've got a very good manager there but we The last two games, we have done well against teams that are low on confidence. we sort of Once we've found the jugular, took us 20 minutes against Shelton and 45 minutes against Watford.
Speaker: We have kept our foot on it and um i expect us sort to do the same against Derby County, I think. Jugular is the key word there, Steve. If Norwich start fast tomorrow night, then the atmosphere in that stadium could get really, really toxic.
Speaker: So is that something Norwich would look to exploit or can they just not worry about that occasion and just do their own thing? Provided, of course, their own thing isn't starting shit like the last couple of games.
Speaker: There you go, Sophie. Jugular, that's your word for next week. You'd have that one for free. um Yeah, I think in some ways it might help being away from home the same way that I think it helped being away from home when we beat Charlton.
Speaker: I would really expect us to win this one the way we finished on Saturday. And as the guys already said, Derby not in a particularly good place at the moment. I think it's seven defensive injuries that they've got or players out in defence. So, yeah, they this should... like you You couldn't really ask for a better fixture if we're looking to get three, a third win in a row. And I would expect us...
Speaker: to win it um I predicted this start of the season, this would be fifth versus sixth. So I'm doing, doing really well there. ah And yeah, I'm, I sort of I think we will see Duffy, won't we? Like they conceded four on Saturday and he was on the bench. So that to me suggests that they will make changes defensively, probably. um His last...
Speaker: three games of professional football where he started were that was most recent one was the big Phil's first game against Birmingham where we let in four and he looked yeah he was sort of defending on the halfway line and I have visions of him just like slowly running back towards his own he definitely tried to blame Vlad for a goal yes yeah that's right he just let the man go he let the man go that's right so that was his highlight from that one the previous one was Sheffield Wednesday away where had a row with Liam Manning on the pitch and the one before that was the game at Hull where he was lying flat on his back so some great memories there and let's hope he kind continues in that vein of form do we fancy Christ v Duffy on tomorrow night Zoe I think that's gonna be quite a tasty little battle
Speaker: ah Well, yeah, I mean, Shane Duffy is one of the biggest footballers I've ever seen. So it'll be fun to see Chris jumping higher than Shane Duffy. um It's a shame in a way that Torre is not not around because i I feel like a race between Duffy and Torre could be quite funny to watch. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, we're talking it up for him to have some sort of inspired performance. But recent, I mean, how fit he can be as well. You know, he's, judging by his Instagram, he's just been going to watch football matches for for the whole season so far. So...
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's it would be a gamble to throw them in I presume that they don't have much choice. um But yeah, it could be very interesting. Are we going to see the deepest team has ever defended against us on Tuesday night? Behind the goal.
Speaker: Just like they're all lining up for an indirect free kick in the box. They're doing that at all times. I mean, quite possibly, quite possibly. ah i be I'll be honest with you. I'm not sure how they're going to line up, but I do have my concerns if Duffy plays like Zoe said, like he's going to have the absolute game of his life somehow running on pure adrenaline.
Speaker: ah Dan, a bit a bit too premature to talk about Bristol City, but we'll just touch on it briefly. they've had lot of changes in the summer to their team. They are a new head coach as well.
Speaker: Quite a am middling sort of transition season for them, which does make it a little bit of a sticky one, doesn't it? When you don't really know what you're goingnna be up against. Yeah, um I think they started the season pretty well, but have tailed off. They had come-from-behind win as well on Saturday. But as I think you said, they're struggling at home um as well.
Speaker: ah it was It's the former Lincoln manager there, right, at Bristol City. So if they're playing anything like Lincoln did last season, it's going to be... a bit more physical and direct than we're used to with british with Bristol City sides, I think, who maybe aside from the Liam Manning era, usually play pretty decent football.
Speaker: um ah Interesting to see obviously how Clement plays three games in a week for the first time in a couple of weeks, heading into an international break as well. um Inevitably see a bitter rotation, i i imagine um wouldn't...
Speaker: Wouldn't be surprised if we see Makama maybe start one of these games as well. I thought he was another massive plus point on Saturday when he came on and absolutely dominated that back line. He looked like as close to sort of full fitness as he has done since he's come back. um And as good as Chris Gorin has been, you know, when you've got sort of three unbelievably talented strikers and two of them are available, then um rotating them does make sense. Maybe we might even see McCama on Tuesday night against what will probably be quite a physical, as we've just said, deep back line as well. um
Speaker: So, yeah, it'd be interesting to see. And maybe Andre Brooks getting a little rest at some point will be good to see as well, especially as Mahovo, who is just just such a good footballer, looking like, you know, he probably does have a little role to play out wide on the right if Brooks does. He's the only one player to have started every single game so far, I think, for us. So I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe we see him dip out.
Speaker: Before we look at the predictions, Steve, given the ah topsy-turvy start to the season Norwich have had, if they come out of this week with two good results, say minimum four points going into an international break, that is going to be the ultimate Kickstarter, right? And I think it's going to completely change the way not just those inside the club look at things, but those from the outside looking in as well will finally, i say finally, will have a reason to stand up and take notice of Norwich now, right?
Speaker: Yeah, it feels a little bit like the stage we were at maybe 15 games later last season where we've sort of in the last couple of matches dragged ourselves out of the relegation battle and we're now looking at the teams above us. I i think we're 15th now, is that right? Yes, correct. It's probably about as high as you can hope to be after 13 games when you haven't kept ah a single clean sheet and if we've mentioned that on this podcast yet. So, yeah, and...
Speaker: In all honesty, that would be that would be good. I mean, give me ah give me a 1-0 win at Derby and a 0-0 at Bristol City. I know Zoe was probably shuddering at the thought of that. But that is kind of... If we're talking about confidence going into the international break, if we can sort out any defensive shakiness, then ah that that's probably... That would be the biggest plus in the next seven days or so.
Speaker: i would be interested... I mean, I don't expect Grimshaw not to start tomorrow. but I'm not sure that he's the answer to the questions that are being posed about our goalkeeping. I personally think, although Cordoba didn't do brilliantly for that second goal, I think he could feasibly say, well, I pushed that striker wide enough for you not to have conceded a a shot at that speed, regardless of where it ended up. So I do hold Grimshaw a little bit accountable for that goal. and Really? And the first? And maybe maybe the first well. look at the first goal more than the second one, to be honest with you, but that's... that's
Speaker: i think to their own I think it was just because it felt like a minute passed between the ball, leaving Broadie's foot and going into the net. I went and got a pint in that time. yeah What's this DJ playing outside? all Yeah, listen to an entire set. um So, yeah, but at the same time, i don't think anything's going to change as we won.
Speaker: I would like to see Fisher at some point as well. I think there has to be a moment where we integrate him back into the team and maybe against a side that's going to be camped on their own six-yard line might be the time to do that. So um I will take the points anywhere they come, Ryan, but some defensive solidity would would be extra nice and extra cherry on top of the cake.
Speaker: Six points from this week, Zoe. Yeah, why not? And I'm not going to all the way to Bristol for a million. Dan? I think six points. I think we're going get a bloody clean sheet against Derby County. I'm calling it. It's going to happen. We're going clean sheet it.
Speaker: Shane Duffy's going to miss an absolute sitter in the 96th minute as well. A lovely little 1-0 win. Thank you. um Hang on a sec. Sorry, i'm getting I'm getting something from tomorrow night. ah Derby's Twitter account.
Speaker: Goal Morris three minutes. Oh, okay, cool. And then a good 5-4 win ah against Bristol City on Saturday. And Steve?
Speaker: Well, I'll say six points as well if I'll get Zoe off my bloody case. About time you showed some positivity. Can I ask Zoe and Dan, though, with your new fascination with the Bristol stool chart, if you don't get a photo of yourself with a stool, and I mean a chair rather than chair.
Speaker: if You don't give me a photo of yourselves pooing at Bristol City. What's the point in any of this? What sort of fan are you? like but The numbers that would do on our Instagram account.
Speaker: I think that perfectly leads us into any other business. I've got a couple of things here. Norris City women booked their place in the next round of the League Cup with a 4-0 win at home to Peterborough yesterday.
Speaker: Goals from Izzy Moore, Poppy Groves, Eleanor Martin and Lara Densley booked City's place into the second round. ahead of their first Carrow Road outing of the season on Sunday. They face Liverpool Mets at Carrow Road after the fixed original fixture was rearranged at Carrow Road. They are now playing Liverpool Feds on Sunday with tickets still on sale. So get down to the Carrow for that one. Anything else, guys?
Speaker: Well, we have a bulging mailbag this week, Ryan. Yeah, it is heaving. And what about the questions? Greg has said, does Steve have any stats on how we fare on set pieces? I know Kraseni scored from a corner, but seems we have so many and very rarely look a threat. Well, Greg, what you've done there is pulled up a slight flaw in the format because I've not had time to look that up, but I'll get back to you next week when I'm sure we'll have scored a couple.
Speaker: Does Cresceni's goal on Saturday count as from a corner? Because it was kind of the the second or third phase of play as well. Yeah, it will go down as a goal from a set piece that in the ah in the annals. it will yeah they'll still count as a set piece girl how many phases does it have to go through until it doesn't i do not have the answer on that i'm afraid but i think in that instance it wasn't it wasn't enough phases well we'll take it hang on sorry this this is this is accosting my breasts right corner comes in headed away me of that Headed away, recycled, right cross, Cordoba's header is then saved, and then the ball's headed away to Cresceni, who then volleys it in.
Speaker: That can't be, that can't be cast as a, I know I'm not disputing you that you're wrong, Steve, but the idea that that the, the idea that they that the the powers that be will count that as a set piece goal is it's crazy to me.
Speaker: I mean, take take it up with the powers that be. I love the powers that be. It's definitely just some football nerd deciding whether it is. Oh, so Steve has decided it then. Oh, brilliant.
Speaker: you know what? I'll take just being called the powers that be. The football nerd thing's fine. I'm um um'm over that. um Anthony Saw has said, a game of two halves indeed, which got me thinking...
Speaker: Which two halves of Norwich City players, past and present, would you combine? I'm thinking Cordoba's legs, brackets pace, although don't if you watched on Saturday, Anthony, and Zimmerman's top half intelligence, or Vlad's left side and Ruddy's right side. I mean, with callbacks like that, you' you're definitely getting your question right So nice work, Anthony. Anyone got any shouts for how you would split a Norwich City player in two? So it has to be a past player and a present player. I think either or. Cut and shut together. I'd go bottom half Grant Holt and then top half Grant Holt. You don't have to do any surgery then either. It makes it a lot easier. Oh, good one. I feel like naturally when you're looking at the the bottom half, you're going for pace. So maybe maybe Nathan Redmond and then the top half
Speaker: Grant Hanley because his massive head has its own gravitational pull. so that That is a very top-heavy player. ah yeah No balance whatsoever.
Speaker: Once again, like but Sugar Puff, whatever, from Ghostbusters, that feels like as well. Yeah. yeah smell Marshmallow Man. I'd go down the middle and I'd have the left side of Wes and the right side of Wendia so that they're equally good on both feet. Yeah, that that feels like the obvious answer we all should have gone with from the start. But I preferred Zoe's facetiousness and Ryan's hilarious scathing.
Speaker: Hanley Redmond. Was it Anthony that asked the question? it was. It has put me in mind of a question I did want to ask you, Steve. Maybe it's one for you for to bring as you're bringing stats back. How many of our signings have been two people melted together?
Speaker: I'd like to know what percentage of players that have played for Norwich City over their history that have been called Anthony have been a winger.
Speaker: Okay. Because it's 100% of the ones that I can remember. Hang on, you can just you can just remember Tony Springer and Anthony Masala. I'd forgotten about Tony Springer. Pilkington well. Pilkington and McNamee. McNamee. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: <unk> I'd forgotten that Tony's Gary Springett and Anthony. Oh. Musaba. Did we say Musaba? Yeah. We say Musaba, right. The moose. The moose, yes. The moose on the loose. Yeah. I mean, you'd truly choose his bottom half, wouldn't you, if he's a moose, for God's sake. Four legs. Four legs. That one's stopping that. Oh, okay. And finally Joe Cannon says Very bewildering to run into Ryan In a horning woodland today recollections of this Ryan? Hello Joe Yes, yes, hello I bumped into Joe and his family at my work Where he recognised my voice Which was very, very nice Hello Joe, lovely to speak to you and your family Hope you had a nice night And remember, tripadvisor.com Thank you Do you hang out in the woods often?
Speaker: Yeah, for work. It does feel like this is Ryan's other podcast we're delving into. It's podcast with Stan Collins. Laybys and Woodlands with Ryan Livermore. You should see the the Patreon for that.
Speaker: you could have half a layby and half a woodland and combine the two.
Speaker: Oh, well, I think that's it for this week's On The Ball for Legal Reasons. ah Thank you and so much to Zoe Morgan. Thank you, Ryan. Thanks, everyone, for listening. To Dan Brigham. Thanks, Ryan. Well done for broadcasting from the middle of a wood again. Thank you. And to Stan Collins, Steve Sanders. Don't get us confused. I mean, it was a Tesco car park before, so and I'm glad you've upgraded to woodland.
Speaker: That's one for the Patreon as well. I will not explain any further. If you have enjoyed this week's episode, please leave us a rating on your podcast player of choice and follow us on Instagram. We're on there as at OTB underscore pod underscore NCFC. And as we mentioned before, we are on Patreon and Substack too. Head on over to our Patreon as we dissect the Norris City careers of Russell Martin and Tim Krull as well.
Speaker: Until the next one, never mind the danger.
