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Could Cristian Roldan be key to USMNT’s turnaround?
3.2k Plays2 days ago
Cristian Roldan has been mostly an afterthought when it comes to the United States national team, even when he was one of the final players to make the 2022 World Cup roster. But after being a late addition to the most recent camp and helping the USA beat Japan 2-0, it looks like he might be solidifying his spot.
Jeremiah and Charlie Boehm discuss Roldan’s place in the USMNT and more broadly what the situation looks like about 10 months from the 20w6 World Cup. They also discuss the Sounders’ position as they head into the final stretch of the 2025 regular season.
Follow Charles Boehm on BlueSky and read him on MLSsoccer.com.
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Transcript
Seattle Sounders and Will Bruin's Involvement
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaan.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region. see of
00:00:59
Speaker
you know what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since Sander Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take the overcome seriously.
Sponsorships and Collaborations
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Christian Roldan's Role in USMNT
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of No Sarietes on the Sounder at Heart podcast network. i am Jeremiah Oshian, and we're doing kind of ah a funky little midweek thing this week because didn't have a game and I wanted to record. And Charlie Boehm, nice enough to come join me. So welcome to the show, Charlie. We're getting to hear a lot from you lately.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're doing ah we're doing a touch-by-touch review of Christian Roldan's USMNT Masterclass, right? I figured that's why you called me. That is the main. Honestly, it was like, that's why i want to record because I want to, like all seriousness, let's talk about Christian because this was kind of like The smug satisfaction of Seattle Sounders yeah culture boiled down into black tar form. Exactly.
00:02:31
Speaker
like exactly like when he didn't get called in it was very much a thing right we're like what are the what does potch need to see i mean jackson reagan should be there christian roldan should be there and injured jordan morris probably should be there for all i for the way that we think why are they not calling in danny masofsky uh but in all seriousness christian gets called it ends up being a great story though because uh henry bushnell another uh friend of the pod did this great story for the athletic about we ah talking to Christian about how he was basically on vacation and he gets this call and they're like, Hey, can you, is there, would you be able to go to camp? If, if you get caught, like, I guess Craig Weibel calls him.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's like, Hey, could you get out there if you needed to be in Christian? Because he is such a team first guy. like, yeah, let's do this. This is so he gets the call. Like apparently like Tuesday morning,
00:03:27
Speaker
He's had, or maybe Wednesday morning, either way. ah What day did, do you know day he showed up? I think they must have, I think he he roll i think he traveled on, ah reported on Wednesday.
00:03:38
Speaker
So unlessa so maybe I think the the the wheels were in motion Tuesday. Okay. So anyway, he basically got Monday off. He only got one day off. And this is a guy who has been sort of played so much. He's he's got it he's carrying an injury of some sort, but he doesn't even second guess it.
00:03:55
Speaker
He's like, yes, this is my chance to get back in. He's been all but openly campaigning to get back into the national team. He has been playing every – he's done everything he could have possibly done, I think, at the club level to show that he belongs here.
00:04:11
Speaker
And then he he gets ah he did get a few minutes against ah South Korea, right? Yeah. Came off the bench. And then he and he looked fine, not anything spectacular, but then he's starting against Japan. And what in, to the degree that you can have a must-win friendly, this was kind of kind of a must-win friendly, really. like the The mood around the US national team is so bad.
00:04:35
Speaker
Potch is actually like fighting with media about saying, why is everyone so negative? Just because we suck doesn't mean you have to say we suck. ah Just because no one likes my call-ups doesn't mean you have to say that my call-ups suck.
00:04:49
Speaker
He played the old college football coach. Criticize me. Don't criticize my players. I can take the criticism, but you're – I mean he used a pretty strong language actually on Monday. I have to say that it was – Were you there? The negativity was damaging. No, I was just – I was on the Zoom and he was clearly on the agenda for him to call out the criticism and the negativity. And he talked – I think he used phrases along lines of you're damaging the – the country basically with this negativity. So, so far out from the world cup, but ah you know, in ah we need to be, stay together and I'm still, ah you know, we're still in experimental mode and, and I'm, we know what we're doing. We're not amateurs and so forth. So it was, it was rather striking.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. And so before we get into rolled on, cause this is a good conversation. I was struck a little bit by that. Like, here's a play a coach who has ah played at Newell's Old Boys. He has come through so He's been there and done that all over the world. He has experienced what real vitriol is. He's experienced what real negative...
00:05:56
Speaker
ah fan culture is like where players are being threatened and don't get me wrong. The U S national team has a pretty, has elements that are extremely toxic and gross. And I don't find myself attracted to it, but also it's like online. It's, it's, it's nothing really when you're, i mean, I can see how it, it it gets into you, but like, this is, ah this was a level, this was, i was surprised at how, how sort of how he He just came for it. like I was surprised at how how much pushback there was from Pauldingham.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, and this ah this quickly got into kind of a levels um discourse because I think, but you know, like on what level is is he speaking here and and right reflecting on it afterwards and then hearing from other people.
00:06:44
Speaker
I do think there's something to the the line of reasoning that he was, one, sort of, you know, sending a message to players, defending the players and trying to sort of use that bully pulpit, but also just doesn't doesn't think American soccer ah is at a level where they have the – the the wherewithal to to call him out this way. right And it's not so much personal, but just sort of maybe a little bit of, um you know, layered communication there, which is kind of, it's all kind of fun to to wallow around in, I have to say. And i we're a year in, so maybe maybe this is the stuff that happens at at this phase of any any project.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and I guess in some ways, maybe this is, in a weird way, good. Like this is maybe American meat. Like I understand that, that other countries, the national team coach is oftentimes battered by their press and they probably push back. And so maybe it's, maybe this is all part of the the evolution, the natural evolution of the relationship between the media and the national team.
00:07:47
Speaker
And i mean, on some level, i don't know, what do you make uh, you know We're a year out here, or not we're a little less than a year out. Tickets, ah the lottery opened up for for World Cups. We may as well talk about this right now. We will talk about Christian Roldan, but you've got me thinking about things, and this is how this show goes.
00:08:05
Speaker
ah It's an iterative process. It's been... you know it's it's been Where do you feel like we are right now? is it It feels in some ways like a week ago we were as low as we could get.
00:08:17
Speaker
And then somehow today I don't think we are anywhere near the same depths. And it there's no good reason other than then ah we beat Japan and Christian Roldan showed that he should probably be a starter for the national team
USMNT's Performance Cycles
00:08:31
Speaker
in World Cup.
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah. Welcome to the it's so over, we're so back cycle. Exactly. Yeah. You can never get far away from it when when you have a a critical mass of people who care deeply about the the team in question.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I have to say too, a key part of this now that you know it's Wednesday and like Potch was straight up basically didn't apologize, but he was apologetic. In his remarks, and it's extensive. I mean, this guy is not... He does not mind taking questions. He does not mind talking to the media. He's not... Oh, that's good. Doesn't treat these availabilities like a trip to the dentist, like many do, for for better and for worse. And he basically, towards the end of last night's postgame presser, he said...
00:09:12
Speaker
he said his wife called him out. It's like, why were you so mean? why were you like that yesterday? ah you know, those are nice guys. And, and, he and, and he basically said, you know, in France and England, they were, you know, they were a lot more harsh, but you know, so it's, it's not, but I wasn't directing it to them. and It's not directed to you guys. It's the ones that are not professional. And he, he kind of alluded to, um,
00:09:33
Speaker
QSMNT is what he's calling out. Clout chasing people looking for followers without even saying social media specifically. He was sort of calling out... Without even tactical manager's name. Amazing.
00:09:44
Speaker
I don't know. But like, I mean, the the the other thing is too, he's he's had to adjust and it's not... my My biggest gripe, if I had one for Pach in general, is um it's not always clear to me how much homework he did about the culture here and what he was kind of the nature of what he was stepping into.
00:10:02
Speaker
And it's not clear to me how much homework he's doing on the week to week, even since taking the job, because ah we there's this running... somewhat of a joke but it it factors into the rolled on discussion like is is potch just watching the biggest game of the of the week uh in mls like is he watching sunday night soccer more so than like crunching tape from hundreds of players because when you know uh the vancouver whitecaps end up playing great miami a bunch and and uh and now we got tristan blackman and
00:10:33
Speaker
Sebastian Berhalter on the team. And then ah the Seattle Sounders chop up Inter-Miami in the League's Cup Final. And Christian Roldan is on a plane two days later. He's like, ah what about this Obed Vargas kid? How do we get him into camp? yeah let's And a few people look at him like,
00:10:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, we blew that one pretty bad. Maybe he's only watching the, the Apple TV plus games and not the season pass games. I don't know. I don't know. But, um but, but it's, but it's also, it's, it's pretty hilarious too. Cause he's, he, every, it seems like every press conference, he gets in some dig at the people who he's decided, he's decided there's this, there's this vocal minority who have a problem with MLS players. so So he was, he was, ah he was saying that, you know, ah he was comparing ah and on Monday,
00:11:16
Speaker
He was talking about his own experiences on the Argentine national team as player. And he was part of the group that seemed to be one of the best Albi Celeste teams of of the past couple generations, which is the Marcelo Bielsa team of the early 2000s. And they where were ah on a really great run of success going into the 02 World Cup.
00:11:36
Speaker
And then they went three and out. Now they were in a group of death with England, i think it was England, Nigeria, and ah and Sweden, i want to I'm guessing. And they they they had the same record as the USMNT with four points from three games, but didn't didn't go through on the ah and they went through and went out in third place.
00:11:53
Speaker
But he said, he he sort of like sidelong said, wait, that and that was your, that was a the USA's best World world Cup, right? And wasn't the best in the modern era. And he said, and half the team was from MLS, right? And and Michael Cameron next to him, the media guy is sort of like confirming the stuff that he seems to vaguely know. And he's like, I don't know where this idea came that that MLS players can't,
00:12:13
Speaker
You know, can't make it to the national team. It was sometime after that. It's like, wow, we're having a 20. We're having a ah discourse about the 2002 World Cup suddenly here from multiple angles. Like Pach.
00:12:24
Speaker
Pach keeps us guessing. So great for that. Yeah, that is, you know, I will say that there is a fair question, I think. Like, why is in all seriousness now that we're back on the Christian Roldan thing?
00:12:37
Speaker
what What does he really have to do? I mean, here's a guy who held his own against literally three world-class opponents. You know, Botafogo, Atletico Madrid, and PSG. Never looks remotely out of place.
00:12:51
Speaker
The Sounders midfield never gets run overrun by unironic, like no hyperbole, three of the best teams in the world. And then he comes out and and every week he's, he's arguably one of, if not the most influential and best players on the field every single week.
00:13:10
Speaker
And then he, and, it and yes, he, he, he's a big part of dismantling Miami in that final, but that was not really surprising to anyone who had watched him. Well,
00:13:22
Speaker
I what, how do you chalk it up? Why wasn't, why did it take so long for him to get, attention? And like, why can't Jackson Reagan who like, not to make this about, you know, woe is us Sounders fans, but it is weird. Jackson Reagan seems like he has the skillset that this, you know, he's a great passer. He's a, a good defender, at least, uh, within a system.
00:13:45
Speaker
And he can't get a sniff other than this, the like the throwaway call up that he got at the beginning of the year for camp cupcake. Uh, What do you make of all that? So there's a couple angles here. One, the Roldan thing is the the knock on him in national team circles, I think, and among the fan base is that we we he had 30-something caps right before he got this late call, right? And now he doesn't have a goal. He's never scored. What are we going to see that's new? And it's true. like he was And I think he suffered from being sort of lumped into this. um
00:14:15
Speaker
He and Jordan Morris were kind of unofficially dubbed the vibes guys for the 22 World Cup squad. I mean, him especially, for sure. and And I think people were irate. Berhalter made some sort of late-breaking, controversial or much-debated
Christian Roldan's Challenges and Contributions
00:14:32
Speaker
decisions that ah in his roster. And so it's like – so someone sees a player like Roldan who – I can't remember if he played. If he played, it wasn't much.
00:14:39
Speaker
And they're – He didn't play in the World Cup. Yeah, I didn't think so, but he was perceived to be part of this, you know, a great locker room guy and a glue guy. And of course that's, that's a little disrespectful to to his skillset, but it didn't seem like he wasn't in the rotation to get minutes.
00:14:54
Speaker
So why is he taking up a spot for vibes that, that could have been occupied by Ricardo Pepe or, you know, it one of the other late snubs. And so I think, I think some of that's not his fault. Some of it was just the sense that he wasn't, you know, did he have the skillset and the athleticism to handle,
00:15:10
Speaker
the the jump in in overall complexity and difficulty of a central midfield in an international game, especially a high quality game. And I think and an interesting parallel, that that's kind of what a little bit of what was was directed at Jesus Ferreira around the same time and afterwards, that this was a CONCACAF level player and maybe someone that could help you qualify or or or compete at the Gold Cup, but not necessarily someone who can... who can shift into top gear to keep pace at the very, very top level.
00:15:39
Speaker
So, but again, as I've, I said this on the scuff podcast, when rolled on came up ah on labor day, you know, players are not, players are fungible quantities, right? They, they evolve, they change, they get better, they get worse, they, they mature. And so for me, I, I, I'm very us empathetic to, to the, the Seattle point of view here because he's been consistent and he's also been consistently growing, right? And just just kind of staying at a high level and and finding new facets and new ways to impact games for a very, very good team. and
00:16:13
Speaker
But I think if you're maybe a ah even a little bit Euro-focused and you're not necessarily super tuned into MLS, it's probably easy for for that the the gradations of his ah form and his evolution to maybe maybe go unnoticed.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah. I mean, I think that that ah that all makes sense. That said, I did legitimately what I only really saw most of the second half. So I didn't see a lot of the first half. But from what I saw, he looked like he made a real impact. Like he had like the press look better.
00:16:48
Speaker
He was in the you know, it was like his pressure led directly several turnovers. I know in the first game, this the U.S. press looked non exist. I mean, they they were like in they were going through the motions. Poorly executed.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, right. Very poorly executed pressing. That was not the case against Japan. Admittedly, not the first choice Japan. But still, I mean, I guess you could argue this isn't the first choice United States either. But you beat Japan, you beat Japan.
00:17:15
Speaker
I believe this is like the first win over a top 25 team in like seven tries or eight tries or something like that. It's Pocz's first in eight, and it's the first non-Mexico victory against the top 25, I think it is, opponent since the 2022 World Cup, Iran. Yeah, okay. So that's a long time ago. So that's been a while, right? That's a cycle.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's a full cycle. it's it's I was just going to he just looked good. He looked very competent. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I think it's more to also what he... So he had a couple, I think, would the the naysayers approach would be that he there were a couple of... ah he's just It's in a high leverage position, right? I mean, the 3-4-2-1 that they played, and that that was a big factor. And it's it's a fascinating ah plot here that US teams are... This is changing, obviously, in the modern era and everything, but typically that the sort of default for for US players growing up is a four-player back line.
00:18:14
Speaker
And you can... you know There's different... ah permutations of of how the midfielder and some strikers look, but it it wasn't common, at least in my experience, that that US team players were were comfortable in a three back until relatively recently. And so then needing a win, the USMNT go to their spiritual home of Columbus, where Wilfred Nancey has enshrined the 3-4-2-1 Nancey ball system ah to to to build an um an elite and MLS club.
00:18:42
Speaker
And they go 3-4-2-1 and everything works better. This was something that Berhalter had tried. He wanted this as a club in the bag, as a plan B tactically. And it was very mixed and it wasn't something that he he you know really trusted for long periods and really big games.
00:18:56
Speaker
And then everyone just looks so much more comfortable, but it but the those two ah kind of holding midfielders, you can call it a box midfield, right? but like In order for for, in this case, Pulisic and Zendejas to go and do their thing and be in incisive in the attacking end, you need two very reliable, well-rounded central midfielders behind them.
00:19:15
Speaker
And ah Tyler Adams and and Christian Roldan, You know, that's, that's an interesting look. And, and there's, the question is, you know, do you have, you have the, the, this was perceived to be a ah solid area, central midfield in terms of the player pool, and but, but it took, and maybe, you know, um immediately people jumped maybe prematurely to, well, wow. Imagine if, if Roldan can do this, imagine how Weston McKinney will look. Right.
00:19:40
Speaker
But I don't know. I mean, he, he was, he's so selfless, I think as a player and his, his IQ is so high that he just sort of fit in the, you know, like the reminiscent of that old Busquets saying, right?
00:19:52
Speaker
If you, you don't, you may not have seen rolled on, but if you're, if you watch rolled on, you watch the game, right? And he, he was ah doing the little things, just getting the ball off his foot a little quicker to, to get ah a buildup going or, or spring a transition. He was getting in that one wheel one little touch to break up a buildup on the other end, like just doing all the stuff that, that most listeners see him do on a week to week basis.
00:20:17
Speaker
And he has other, He has other abilities, right? He can roam forward. He can do different stuff. He can be incisive in other ways, but he was the glue guy And this time it wasn't in in an abstract locker room chemistry conversation. It was making everything kind of hum along. And Tyler Adams, that we can now say, I mean, he needs that. a lot of the 2022 cycle was the debate was, can can Tyler Adams be a lone six?
00:20:39
Speaker
I think now we know that it that that the ceiling is higher when he's not. you know he's He's best... paired with someone. And Roldan's, I think, right in the mix there as as to to be part of a you know dual pivot or whatever you want to call it as someone who can just make life easier for those around them.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say, you know, not and I don't know that I'm being totally serious about saying he should be the starter, but there is something to be said about him being a better pairing with a Tyler Adams than like a Weston McKinney who's going to, who who part of his value proposition, let's not talk about what he's willing to do or not willing to do, but part of Weston McKinney's like the reason you had Weston McKinney on the field is because you think he provides something offensively. And he's not just a six, that he's not just a guy who's going to make the game dirty and do all these, like maybe he could do the Christian world on role if you asked him to, but,
00:21:33
Speaker
he's not being his best self. Whereas Christian rolled on is showing the ability and has shown the ability this year ah even though he has some other skills, like this is a guy who scored a bunch of goals, who, who, who has eight assists, admittedly with a bunch of secondary assists, but he, he can do things offensively, but like, he's also willing to just, like you said, just be the glue guy, just be the guy who is helping others be their best selves. And he doesn't need to be,
00:22:01
Speaker
you know he he's perfectly okay being the 11th best player on his team if that's what the situation calls for. And I think it's a good example of um ah a facet to the whole MLS versus Europe conversation is, and and this is, you hear maybe in in the Diego Luna aspect of, you know, should should someone like Luna be going to Europe as quickly as possible?
00:22:25
Speaker
Or is there something you get from being the guy, being a ah trusted player with responsibility and, ah and visibility and and leadership expectations in MLS, right? And Paxton Aronson described this as something that he thought the Colorado Rapids could give him that Europe couldn't, which is a little bit striking. But this idea of, here you know, Aronson has the 10 shirt with the Rapids and- he he has to, he has to do something different maybe than he would be doing for Eintracht Frankfurt this year and whatever, you know, of course that's a controversial idea, but rolled on has just been, has been expected to be a leader in a, in a day to day dependable, do everything central midfielder for, for a very good MLS team for a long time. And and there's something to be said there. And ah he, there were a couple of plays that he got away with. I think there was a little bit of, there was a turnover that that led to a a really good chance or a
00:23:21
Speaker
pile driver off the post, if I'm remembering right, for Japan late on. But as as Matt Doyle has pointed out in some of his posts and and his um his post game wrap up of the window that came out earlier today, Japan did bring their A-team or some of their A-team onto the field in the second half and the US sort of weathered that and then some and and and sort of remained the protagonist in the game. And it all it all speaks well of Vrldan. And again, as I've said to you before, I think so much of the, of the debate about selection with the MNT is just who just deciding who gets in the door. Right. And then once you're in the door, you so you have to compete in, in front of the coaches and in that environment.
00:24:01
Speaker
And I think he's, he's earned the chance to to get that in, in next month or, or some point in the next you know, a few months in the final countdown. And I can't have gone unnoticed. And Henry wrote another piece last night, this time centered on Pulisic because he's waiting around for him to come through the mix zone.
00:24:19
Speaker
And he is a cool, cool, cool reporting and on Henry's part, just to to take note that when Pulisic finished talking to the press, he stood aside just off outside the the zone and and waited for Christian Roldan to finish up and come through. And the two of them walked out arm in arm.
00:24:36
Speaker
So this is a guy that, you know, is well known and respected by multiple sort of generations and groups within the MNT world. And think that's going to count in his favor as well. So ah fun story, whatever happens, but it might not be over.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, it is. That is an interesting little note here that Christian was, you know, It's not a whole new team from 2022. twenty twenty two There's a lot of important players from that squad, all of whom really seem to like Christian, who, even though he wasn't playing, was the guy that everyone seemed to get along with and and sort of fit in. And it it would be very interesting narratively ah if not from practically, it seems like it makes it easier for him to step in and have a role just because he already knows every or he knows most of the the key players. Yeah. And certainly he knows the the guys who are the most influential players.
00:25:29
Speaker
So that might be an interesting little angle there. ah One more thing too I want to say, and I apologize whoever posted this that that I'm not remembering. i want I would want to credit it, but someone made a ah ah fascinating comparison, which is that he could turn out to be, Roldan could turn out to be this cycle's Kyle Beckerman.
Roldan as the New Kyle Beckerman?
00:25:49
Speaker
yeah If you remember, if you go back to 2014, for most of of the lead up to the World Cup in Brazil, and even going back well further, no one thought of Kyle Beckerman as maybe not even on the 23 player roster for the USMNT's best, best squad, much less a best 11, you know, a member of the starting lineup.
00:26:12
Speaker
But this, this quandary developed for Klinsman with, you know, how do you, and and it's funny too, because you've reminded me, there's, there's Jermaine Jones elements of the McKinney discourse, like, really talented players playing consistently at a high level, but like, where exactly does he fit in best? What's his best role? And what you, what are you compromising when you unleash or empower McKinney or Jermaine Jones?
00:26:35
Speaker
And it was like, how can we make the Bradley Jones axis work? how can we make it work? And, and, and out of nowhere, Kyle Beckerman just comes in and, and just is the guy that, that, shores everything up behind them and just makes the best decision, the cleanest touches and keeps things simple every time and did it so often that he ends up being a World Cup starter.
00:26:55
Speaker
And it was a very much what we would have called the Frankenstein midfield, the ah you know, a year or two before Brazil and it ended up working. And so, you who knows, maybe that's rolled on.
00:27:07
Speaker
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00:27:17
Speaker
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00:27:52
Speaker
Discord is where we make things happen. Like, for real. You know the promotion the Sounders ran that offered fans the opportunity to trade in their messy jersey for a Paul Rothrock one? That originated in our community. You'll not only be the first to know about stuff, but you also have a semi-direct line to the movers and shakers at the Sounders organization. If you want to be one of the totally normal people who occupy the Sounder at Heart Discord, just become a supporter of Sounder at Heart. Anyway, thanks for listening, and go Ders.
00:28:21
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:28:53
Speaker
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00:28:59
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:23
Speaker
It would be fascinating to see it. ah You know, one of the moments that I thought was really cool from the leagues cup and just sort of illustrates to me the sort of like the core of what Christian rolled on represents is, you know, he was the captain of this team.
00:29:38
Speaker
ah Stefan fried normally the captain, but during leagues cup, Stefan fried essentially yielded to Andrew Thomas. And I just thought it was an interesting little moment where, when they wrote, went to raise the trophy,
00:29:51
Speaker
Christian made sure to call over staff and be sort of they as sort of like the captain normally is the one who would raise the trophy. And they made sure to have Steph there as, you know, sort of co raising the trophy. And it was sort of like this, you here's a guy who didn't play in the tournament at all, but they also wanted to make sure they understood that it was like visible that this was, they still look at him as a leader, even though it was you know, arguably Christian's moment to be sort of the guy and he and he insists on sharing the spotlight. I thought that was kind of a cool little thing.
00:30:25
Speaker
That's culture. Right. That's culture right there. That's exactly. So I guess that's my, I'll now muck it up by calling attention to it, but sort of that's a ah decent place to transition into talking about this week's cut. noticed though.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, good, good, good. I noticed that with Fry and that was a cool, cool moment. Yeah, no. i Yeah, I thought so, too. I think and i've I feel like I heard something about it, too. But what anyway, Leagues Cup final.
00:30:51
Speaker
This it's an interesting it's interesting how it falls on the calendar ah here. It happens in August. And then I guess I assume they planned it this way that they that it goes right into an international break, which is.
00:31:05
Speaker
talk i mean, that's a perfect way to ah be able to do a big trophy lift. And then, hey, how about two weeks off or at least two weeks between games? Sounders sounders had full-blown five days off of training.
00:31:17
Speaker
ah you know We only today got back into availability. So we're talking 10 days after. They didn't have to talk to the press for 10 days. Pretty sweet for them. ah But it is you know it is kind of a you know As the dust settles on this, do you think like yeah have we overstated how much we learned about the Sounders during this run? like For me, it felt it did feel like an MLS Cup final. in that And I think a lot of that is because of the pomp and everything that Messi brings. and And then there was all this post-fallout that sort of raised, I think, the discourse in terms of there's been a lot of chatter going on.
00:31:56
Speaker
But what do you think... as an outsider, what do you feel like you learned about the Sounders and, and I guess to a set ah a lesser degree, Miami? Yeah.
00:32:05
Speaker
there's There's definitely, I think, some parallels to what the crew did last year, where it's not that a top team says, that's what we want to go and win, right? Leagues Cup is top of our list. No, but it's it's a trophy. it has ah It has a financial reward and it has the CONCACA Champions reward.
00:32:23
Speaker
And if you have ambition, if you want to compete in that at that level, and if you want to win things, and if you've built the overall organization that wants to be a perennial contender for hardware,
00:32:34
Speaker
yeah You go make a run if you possibly can and if everything lines up and it's a way to, to to i think, rubber stamp and and ah legitimize everything you've done to this point.
00:32:45
Speaker
And you know I think ah we're both we both remember, I've been around long enough to remember when when the Sounders were perceived to have a monkey on their back,
Seattle Sounders: Journey and Strategy
00:32:54
Speaker
right? About winning something other than ah the US Open Cup.
00:32:58
Speaker
or winning MLS Cup. And it and it you know if you're ah if you're if you want to be considered a trophy chaser, much less a ah dynasty or have those kinds of conversations, you got to go and win things. And I think that's a big part of why Miami were absolutely driven to distraction by the way that that a whole day played out and the way that it slipped away from them. And we know, I think that game was a little closer than maybe people are are going to remember it. Yeah, sure. There were some there were some key some some key leverage kind of kind of moments, especially early in the second half.
00:33:32
Speaker
But Miami craves that like for that project to make sense, for all the money and the hype and everything to to be vindicated. They got to go win stuff and they've fallen short in these tournaments, of the playoffs and and and then an Open Cup and even an Open Cup in year one.
00:33:50
Speaker
you know They've gotten to that final hurdle and haven't gotten it. And I think ah think that that drives
Inter Miami's Trophy Pursuit
00:33:56
Speaker
them nuts. And someone like Messi, even for Messi to lose his cool and have the whole whatever happened or didn't happen with Pedro de la Vega.
00:34:03
Speaker
And then, of course, all the Suarez-Busquette stuff. like they They know what a huge difference there is between number one and number two on that day. And Seattle does too because they've a lot of the current squad have been in these situations.
00:34:17
Speaker
And you got to get over that hump. And then the the value... kind of cascades from there because the momentum you get is huge. And now look at Miami and we're all watching and waiting to see. they They try not to play during international breaks and they they haven't.
00:34:32
Speaker
And now we really don't know what kind of inter-Miami we're going to see down the stretch. Are they going to be just ah playing with the, you know, the the the anger of a thousand scorned superstars or are they going to have a motivational problem and and maybe have to fix themselves? So that's what these tournaments can do.
00:34:53
Speaker
It is interesting. it's and And I'll tell you ah something from my own experience. So going into this game, everyone who would listen, I basically told, look, I think the Sounders have already sort of won because they get to host this big event, because there's going to be 70,000 people there, because they get to have their day on the national spotlight with a beautiful day, not to overdo this, but a beautiful day in Seattle, it's just, it sets up perfectly. You can't, you really could not have drawn up a better scenario for the Sounders. And so I was basically telling everyone that would listen in some ways, I think the Sounders have always won. It doesn't even matter what the result is.
00:35:29
Speaker
Now in hindsight, that was, That was coping. That was pre-coping. That was me just telling a story to myself because the reality is, that and and I think there's truth to it. Like there was an element of they've already, they they got something out of it.
00:35:43
Speaker
ah But winning is so much, it changes everything so much. Like it changes, that like you're right. The game was a lot closer. I rewatched the game and I was actually struck because At the end of that game, I remember feeling like Sounders just dominated Miami. Like, I don't even remember this being a, like there was just never in doubt. And then when I rewatched it, it was like, okay, the Sounders were definitely the better team in the first half. But then for the first 15 minutes or so of the second half, Miami was all over them.
00:36:10
Speaker
I mean, it could have very easily been one one if not two one ah through 60 minutes. And then, to his credit, Brian Schmetzer made some really good subs that changed the game, and it sort of evened things out.
00:36:22
Speaker
And it put it into a position where the Sounders could really control it. ah like I don't think the Sounders really got control of it until... really until Georgie Manungu got taken down in the box. But that sub was another example of, of Brian just sort of pulling the right levers and, and it, and it going right.
00:36:39
Speaker
And yes, the raw, the Roth rock thing ends up being a great narrative. an unbelievable let's be honest it's like if you wrote us if you wrote a movie and you decided that you were going to have your ah local kid be the poster child of the matchup with the best player in the world and then you're gonna uh win okay but to have him score in the 90th minute and then get a standing ah ah get a curtain call he kissed the badge yeah kiss the badge although oh that was so perfect oh but it's too much it's almost like can we dial it down a little because this is a little on the nose but it it was it really happened and it was an amazing thing uh
00:37:24
Speaker
But it it to get back to my point, winning really does pull it all together because you could tell the a lot of the same stories if they lose that game, but they don't hit the same. they Like the whole built not bought thing, the whole narrative that we've been able to run with about the the player pipeline and everything, it sounds it's good and it means something great.
00:37:46
Speaker
but it means so much more when you win and you do it the way they did. ah For me, it it really, it almost flips the whole, it, it, I don't want to say the rest of the season is gravy. Cause again, this is maybe pre coping.
00:38:00
Speaker
And if they bomb out here, we will be talking about what a bummer thing it is, but It does sort of prove the – it's sort of like a – it proves the theory. it it it it's It shows that this can work even if it wasn't the way that everyone wanted it to.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah. and And what vindication for Craig Weibel too, right? Whose roster construction methodology has been under a lot of scrutiny. ah From us too. Validly so, understandably. he They have eschewed as an organization, the kind of signings that Miami has made to to jump the line and to jump ahead and and to speed up the pace of the whole project.
00:38:42
Speaker
And the whole justification was, we think we can build a better team that's a coive cohesive unit, right? Not just one to 11 or one 14, but one to 22.
00:38:51
Speaker
Thank you. we think we've built the the the the the better mousetrap. And there is no there is no greater ah challenge and dichotomy than thenda to have seattle cumber sorry Miami come to Seattle in front of a ah full house or damn close to it on a big day like that with ah with a trophy and some money on the line. I mean, that's that's enormous. and And for some of those guys who have been filling in for the injured stars or the someone ahead of them on the depth chart who has a bigger number next to their name,
00:39:22
Speaker
to, you know, to the way it did, it all is, is pretty poetic. And I think, uh, I, listen, I've, I consider myself fortunate to have, uh, covered a cup final Seattle. mean, still my only, my only, uh, game at, at century or sorry, Lumen was that, uh, final, my bad. I should have got you on a plane and brought you out. There we go. Let's go. And who knows, maybe, maybe there'll be a playoff cup, a playoff trip. Yeah. But the,
00:39:49
Speaker
you know that's a special place with a special vibe. um i took a million pictures that day the you know before in the lead up and there's just something about that stadium and that that community and that culture for a big game.
00:40:03
Speaker
And even at that, right, you know that ah that the the ah floor is high in Seattle, but you still got ah approximately double or close to double the number of bodies it's through the gates, right? Because it's a big game.
00:40:14
Speaker
It's a big game. than double. Yeah. And every single one of those... Right. So every single one of those new, newer bodies or more casual fans or less connected members of your local soccer community who comes in, you know, checks it out on the big day.
00:40:29
Speaker
mean, that's that and every one of those recruitment opportunity and a chance to build and and someone to convert. So, you know, to manifest it quite literally in the form of a messy Jersey for a Rothrock Jersey was, was clever. And I, I, I hope, hope I'll get to pick, uh,
00:40:45
Speaker
uh schmetz's brain about that sometime whether how uh how much planning and foresight went into that uh bon mot of his you know i don't think any drive i think he was like that i think i maybe it was but it felt like very of the moment like he just was like freestyling uh and it was just like he was just like ripping names of players and maybe he gave it more i Maybe I'm not giving enough credit, but it felt just very like of the moment. And he was just like in a fugue state of like, oh, yeah, they have Messi, but we have Rothrock and we Reed, Baker, Whiting, and we have Jackson, Reagan. I don't know. I can't remember all the players he said. I guess I should know this.
00:41:25
Speaker
to It's like lore now. I should know everyone he mentioned. But ah was it was just it was an amazing little moment. And I will say – for For those of those who are under Sounder at Heart readers and Nos Adietes listeners who don't know, it the the truth is, the absolute truth is that that that that promotion idea came from our Discord.
00:41:47
Speaker
ah That's not me being ah flip or anything. It really it literally was a ah suggestion that someone in our Discord made. And as a joke, I just texted it to the Sounders media guy and then at in this I just looked at this today because the Seattle Times is working on a story.
00:42:05
Speaker
At 11 a.m., m I texted that to him. When I showed up at training, like 45 minutes later, he tells me that might actually happen. There's legs to this thing. And then like within hours, it was and ah full blown program that they were running. It was kind of amazing.
00:42:21
Speaker
I don't want to take too much. They're going to turn, they're going to turn those messy jerseys for a profit on eBay. So, Oh yeah. You know, forty d chess here. 40 chess. Exactly. Exactly. No, that's, that's actually, i would love to find out what is happening to all those jerseys. like Are they donating them? Are they burning them?
00:42:40
Speaker
Uh, are they selling them? Like that would even be, it would really be upcycling to be able to sell them. Yes, exactly. Click, keep close the set, close the close the loop. Exactly. Exactly.
00:42:51
Speaker
But it, it, it has ended up, it, it, it's just almost like too much how good of a narrative this whole thing ended up being in terms like you could not have possibly put, two more like in a sense Philly might have more yeah ah involvement from their academy. But if you just like look at the concept of here's a team that has been around since 1974, but has really been continuously operating without any irony since 93 and all the way that that predates MLS by really any reasonable way of looking at it.
00:43:28
Speaker
And they've had this long arc of consistent success, at least since their rebirth in the nineties, all the way up to now. And then you're going up against a team who is literally just trying to conjure ah brand from almost thin air and to have the, it play out the way that did. And then to have them melt down the way that they did at the end, which was just so again, almost like too fitting that these players who really thought that the, you know, and they were going to come to MLS and just dominate.
00:44:00
Speaker
And then i don't, it's, what did you make of that whole post game scene? It was kind of surreal because it, I don't see how, I don't know that anyone that I've talked to, even Miami people, I don't know, have really tried to defend it in terms of other than is not that big of a deal, but No one looks at that and says, oh, there's a clear, i mean no one denies that there's a very clear aggressor and ah and and then a response to that. This is very clearly what's happening here. Yeah, look, I hope I phrase this in a way that doesn't sound like I'm excusing anything or minimizing it, but because it's it's it's terrible behavior by by veteran players who've played at the game's top levels, who've played in the biggest stages in the world and won some of the biggest trophies.
00:44:47
Speaker
They should know better. They should have their act together. And and and for it to be you know teenagers and young, early 20-somethings who've driven them to that point, it just adds to the to the surreal nature of it.
00:44:59
Speaker
But there's a there's a compliment in there. There's a twisted form of tribute that they are paying, which is that you think about there's plenty of designated players and and veterans, superstars, and big names that have come to this league over the years and not
Luis Suarez's Competitive Nature
00:45:13
Speaker
necessarily been all in or have not found you know have not had their full competitive instincts, the things that made them great, really activated in North America for a whole variety of reasons.
00:45:27
Speaker
But for Suarez and Busquets and those guys, they they're they're in. I mean, you can't question their commitment, I guess. And again, I know it's ah maybe a bizarre framing, but no i I've watched Suarez a long time and I have a grudging sort of admiration for him because he is...
00:45:43
Speaker
ah in strictly technical and, and skillset terms, the possibly the greatest nine of his generation, who he is as a person fascinates me, even if it appalls me at at his worst.
00:45:55
Speaker
But this is a guy who has, you know, the, at that Roy Keane level of red mist, like just, ah an obscenely, ah uncontrollably competitive, dogged, uh,
00:46:08
Speaker
you know professional who wants it so bad and who felt, I think i think he would say whether whether you could get him to admit it or not, or if he even explicitly understands this about himself or not, I think he, on some level, he feels he has to bride the line and be on the bleeding edge to be at his best. And he's gone, he goes into this state, right? When you see him in in a match, he's, he's just a bastard, right? And he's, he's, he's living and dying with every touch. The looks on his face is he's sometimes in great pain.
00:46:37
Speaker
He's sometimes enraged. He's, he's a euphoric, like, He is this, for me, like a so a tragic figure in a lot of ways, but a compelling figure, ah fascinating figure. And so for him to to lose his rag because Obed Vargas was better than him, right? I mean, what a tribute to to Vargas. and and And while it's so unfair, i think De La Vega, if everything planned played out even remotely, like what it's been reported,
00:47:05
Speaker
what a horrible position for that poor guy to be in. But what a compliment that you made Leo Messi mad enough to, to, to be petty. Like, I mean, it's almost like gilding, gilding the trophy ah ah another layer.
00:47:21
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And I, we've kind of gone through the discourse, I think on the, on the messy thing where I come down on it though, is he probably said the stuff that he's accused of doing. I don't know that it matters. Like it people say all kinds of crazy shit when they're playing games even after games. I don't, I'm not like, I'm not really that interested in, and I, but I do feel like you're right. I don't think Pedro wants to be in the middle of this. I don't think Obed also wants to be in the middle of this. We actually talked to Obed today at training and he was doing his best to just be like, look, a lot of stuff gets said and you know, that doesn't, I don't take that much from it and I'm not going you know, he didn't even really want to talk about what happened with him and Suarez or him and Busquets. And, and I think the Sounders just all want to sort of,
00:48:07
Speaker
they don't want to get wrapped up into like, let the Miami to play these guys in a couple
Seattle Sounders vs. Inter Miami Rivalry
00:48:12
Speaker
of weeks. Right. So that's, that's a factor. Yeah. the other thing yeah On Tuesday, they're going to be playing them again in Miami and it's, I don't know. It's, it's, it's all, that's a can't miss, right?
00:48:25
Speaker
I mean, that should be for sure. Yeah. what ah what ah what an What an occasion. The schedule schedule makers did us a real favor there. and Well, even the Galaxy. They're playing the Galaxy this weekend. They just played the Galaxy twice, once in the semifinals for this tournament. It's sort of surreal how these things work out. like Last year, they played LAFC three times in the span of ah like ah few weeks, all in different competitions. Again, very strange. like They played them in ah in Open Cup, in Leagues Cup, and in League. And then they...
00:48:57
Speaker
And then of course they wouldn't play them again in the playoffs. ah But it's, it is funny how these things work out sometimes, ah but small, small note too. ah You just reminded me of a, I just wrote a piece about Sebastian bear halter. Cause he just got profiled in the MLS soccer ah sort of video profile series called breakaway, which is, they, they do some great stuff.
00:49:19
Speaker
RF people in the, in the, the team at starting 11, which is a great, a great set of creators um and, you know, get great access to follow players around. This is the same series that went with Diego Luna to get coffee and learn about him, you know, going to work at a Dutch brothers and stuff that to improve his people skills. And um so, so they followed Sebastian Berhalter around and, and in the course of writing the accompanying piece I was digging back through a bunch of interviews with him and ah he's been asked about the messy stuff. He was asked about it by scuffed. when They did ah ah an interview with him on on Friday at USMNT camp.
00:49:52
Speaker
And he was saying, he was talking about how they, like, nobody um nobody switched shirts with Messi after the Whitecaps CCC series, where Whitecaps basically kicked him around, right? like we're not If not dominant, we're the better team over both legs. Yeah, kind similar to what happened with the Sounders.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. its And it's interesting. It's like, we we, there's this whole discourse about how do you deal with the aura of Messi and, and, and the, the fab, what's now the fab five, I guess, with Rodrigo DePaul on side, you know, how do you find the right balance between, um, you know, competing and, and being dogged and, and,
00:50:30
Speaker
respecting these greats and not let the reputation sort of psych you out. And Seattle and Vancouver have set the example. And ah you know nobody was really worried about who was going to get Messi's jersey after those games.
00:50:41
Speaker
And he was in no mood to swap jerseys with anyone. He was pretty pretty PO'd afterwards. And I thought that was interesting. and And I think Vargas said all the right things ah ah about this, right? that The and but greatest respect you can show to a legend is is ah is go go all in and give your yeah your best and and beat him if you can. And I think too many ah MLS opponents have not found that ah proper approach.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, I totally agree. It is kind of refreshing. and And you'll note he did not switch jerseys after the League's Cup final either. He was apparently not quite in the mood. to De La Vega would have been the logical contender because his his number one, his default is usually the Argentine.
00:51:26
Speaker
I know, i know it would have been i I know. It would have been perfect. It would have been a nice passing of the torch even almost. not that Not to get ahead of ourselves. But what do you think? They are human Miami, the stars, you know?
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. ah And so just one want to close this. This is asking a lot. i i appreciate I can appreciate this, but looking forward, you know, the Sounders have they have seven games left.
00:51:54
Speaker
ah They are only like 12th in the supporter shield standings. But it it all of a sudden feels like they are real. It should feel like they're real contenders because they've they beat some very good teams in admittedly ah opportunistic situations. Like they they were able to play virtually all their games in League's Cup at home.
00:52:16
Speaker
You know, that most of their big wins have been at home. But when you are assessing at least the Western Conference, where do you feel like the Sounders are are shaking up?
MLS Western Conference Playoff Race
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, and it's it's great because it's a really tasty run-in on the West side of the of of the league. and it's you know we've A lot of national pundits have been sort of dogging on the Western Conference as being yeah ah less talented overall. And I think it's true. I mean, there's there's there's a bunch of real quality, both individually and collectively in the East.
00:52:48
Speaker
Um, but now it's really, i mean, from, from first to, to, me see from first to seventh, right? The, the non-play in spots is, is 56 points down to 39 points. Right. And there's, uh,
00:53:05
Speaker
There's couple teams, of games in hand, LAFC still have multiple games in hand. Vancouver and Seattle have a couple also. And top four, I think this is where the format really, really does come in huge. I mean, you you need to be top four, I think, to give yourself the best chance to take advantage of, of this, this great game day atmosphere that we've been talking about.
00:53:26
Speaker
So, um, I think it's – I think and and a little bit of old school MLS conventional wisdom here, right? Everything that's happened up until now or until Labor Day or thereabouts is sort of prelude for for that final sprint.
00:53:40
Speaker
And they're in a good position here. Obviously, you you wish that you didn't have as many injuries and and the injury bug I think sort of still lingers when we talk about the Sounders writ large. Yeah. But you go in and finish, and it's not I think if anyone can overcome not being yeah having home field advantage, it's it's Seattle with the experience and the collective nature of everything.
00:54:00
Speaker
But you know LAFC is right in the mix. ah Vancouver, I think, is is still finding another level in the post-Muller arrival. Minnesota and San Diego are first and second and have already qualified for the playoffs for a reason. Those are excellent teams.
00:54:14
Speaker
So there's, there's some really tasty matchups taking shape here. And I think Seattle wants to be in that top four to, and, and have the right momentum. And that, mean, when you look down the stretch um and I'm, I'm having to check myself here cause I haven't, haven't gotten into decision day thinking quite yet, but it's, it's,
00:54:31
Speaker
yeah, you have to go to Miami. Um, you're away on, on the final day at New York city, which is just always a rough place, uh, to play for anyone, but there's, there's very winnable home games. There's Cascadia cup, uh, you know, with Vancouver coming to town, um especially if you can get handle handle LA, this coming week, it's this weekend, right? That's a, that's a Saturday game, I think.
00:54:54
Speaker
So, um, you know, it all, it, it, it's all sort of, it all switches. Right. And, and I think, What a great way to to go into the break, win a trophy, know that you're already in CONCACA Champions for next season, which is just so great for the organization can plan for it.
00:55:09
Speaker
The players know that that that that box has been checked. And now you just ah you just try and get up to fifth gear and stay there. And ah I don't think anybody wants to deal with Seattle and in in ah in a playoff type type environment. it's ah We all know what's at what they're about at this point.
00:55:27
Speaker
And importantly, they themselves know what they're about. Yeah, I mean, I think the Sounders getting to fourth is going to be really key, and they don't have a lot of... ah All four of their remaining home games are probably must win if they want to be top four.
00:55:42
Speaker
They probably need to find two or three more points from the other three road games. I believe they're at Miami, they're at Austin, and they're at New York City. And none of those are gimme points by any stretch of the imagination. Those are all...
00:55:58
Speaker
ah games that will have challenges. They're not necessarily unwinnable games, but there aren't you know and they're not they not going to be... No one's handing them anything at this point.
00:56:08
Speaker
And if I think the difference between finishing fifth and fourth is going to be pretty big, especially if it's you know a likely matchup with LAFC in that 4-5 game.
00:56:19
Speaker
Having home field advantage obviously is going to be... pretty important to that. But then whoever, I mean, honestly, whoever comes out of, if it's a four five with LAFC and Sounders, whoever comes out of that is going have to like their chance. like say not to Like San Diego has had an amazing season. Vancouver has had an amazing season, but either one of them feel like ah teams that both LAFC and the Sounders will like their chances against in a knockout game, even if it is on the road.
00:56:50
Speaker
There's just a fundamental question of pedigree, particularly post-season pedigree with with you know San Diego as an expansion side. Minnesota, would their you know their top side is excellent, but there are some limitations that have been much much discussed over the course of the season.
00:57:06
Speaker
um Yeah. and And if anybody watched Sun hung Young Min over the international break, you know that that is possibly the free radical in this whole mix because- you You have a match winner on an already very good team, very well-built side that that knows how to win ah big games.
00:57:27
Speaker
And now you've got this extra sprinkling of world-class ability that's now hitting stride. that They are going to be a problem. Yeah, no, I, I, I, LAFC is definitely the team in the West that still gives me the most pause in terms of, uh, who I, I feel like who am I most worried about playing in a, in a knockout game. And I think LAFC is probably, probably at the top of my list, even though they're right now, I think fifth in the West.
00:57:55
Speaker
Uh, so yes. Yeah. Three points back of the Sounders with the one game in hand on Seattle. Right. Uh, so anyway, it's going to be an interesting end of the season. It always seems to be, uh, and before I, I get, before I let you go there, Polish is going to get us is going to get, he's going to see the job through to the world cup, right? There's no, but we're going to close the loop on this.
00:58:20
Speaker
That's like, that's, yeah that's what's going to happen. yeah Right.
Future of USMNT Coach Pochettino
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah. I, we can't, you know, crazy stuff happens all the time in this sport and particularly around the USMNT. It's always possible. But ah this that is one area of the whole discourse, the criticism, ah where I actually saw some fairly, you know, serious people ah talking about whether, you know, should he should he be on the hot seat or who could you who could you bring in in these final months if he's out?
00:58:47
Speaker
And there's just... There's logistics, there's organizational identity, and finances that go into this. So we have to remember, he's already made clear in public statements because he's getting he's he's gotten asked repeatedly about open jobs, particularly the Tottenham job when Ange Postacoglu got fired.
00:59:06
Speaker
There's been a couple of those kind of things that have popped up, and he said it's impossible. think it He was obliquely referring to he's got a huge release clause. I think The Athletic or so one of the big UK outlets has reported that's one of the biggest release clauses in world soccer. It's some some high number, somewhere beyond $20 million dollars or something, crazy money.
00:59:26
Speaker
would take crazy money to buy him out of his contract. And now if we know that with relative certainty, you have to ask yourself, what would it take to to fire him out of his contract? Right. The U.S. soccer, which they had to go to, ah i think it's Ken Griffin, you know some ah venture capital or yeah private equity billionaire to help finance this deal. This is a two-year contract for an elite world-level coach to come to the United States and take on this contract.
00:59:53
Speaker
this gig ah for World Cup. I think he's making somewhere around $7 million dollars a year. I'm sure that there's other various bonuses and things like this is real money for anyone, right much less US soccer, which is does not have the deep pockets that they can call on maybe the same way that one of Europe's elite federation fe federations could.
01:00:13
Speaker
So I'm guessing it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 million or beyond would it cost to to can him, much less what it would cost to bring in a successor who you would think would be able to do a better job. I i know why people are frustrated.
01:00:25
Speaker
There's some Juergen Klinsmann elements to what he's done and said and some questions about his application and his understanding of things and if he's ideally situated in terms of ah the the the leadership.
01:00:37
Speaker
But this is... the one that brung you, this is, this is the, there's a ring on both fingers here. Like, so I don't, I don't see anything changing us soccer's commitment here or any ability to change what they've committed themselves. And, and that, that runs in both directions.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, I tend to agree that too. It's just that you keep, you hear enough things and you start to ask questions at least among yourself. And I, I suppose we can, end it there but charlie it's always great catching up with you it's uh even better reading your stuff on sounder at heart we can't wait to to work more with you and going forward and it's always good to hear your voice but in the meantime where else can people find you yeah it's uh start on blue sky at cboehm that's where most of my stuff goes up and you can uh hit me with a dm even if you want to and uh
01:01:30
Speaker
Yeah. And then I'll have various this and other stuff as we've been talking about. The the stretch run in MLS is is kicking in now. And so china try and throw the produce some good words and and throw them in front of the waiting eyeballs. And hopefully we can we can reconnect. And who knows, maybe we'll be in the same press box one of these weeks when when the games of real consequence are are looming.
01:01:56
Speaker
So, uh, and also you are, are you now a regular fixture on scuffed? Is that, is that like ah a, a, I think I'm a semi regular. I'm, I'm, they, they say nice things about me and they've invited me back a few times. We don't have anything formal scheduled, but, uh, yeah, I try to, I'm trying trying to, uh, to, to grow my, uh,
01:02:15
Speaker
my skills in the, in this audio world. So I'm, I'm saying yes, saying yes to everything I can. So if you, if you got a podcast out there, and me up.
01:02:27
Speaker
I just wanted, I did ah a real quick plug. i appreciated how much you guys gassed up the Sounders after the league's cup final. It was really satisfying. i assume it was mostly because of you, but it was, was just nice to hear them saying good things about the Sounders.
01:02:44
Speaker
Vince and Adam, i I always like to hear them saying nice things. So it was great. I think Potch is a listener. I think we have to conclude because we record on Labor Day. And well the point was, and I want to be clear too, I have to ah um um um i can't take i can't say i was out there with the you know rolled on hashtags but what What we were pointing out was if Potch is so committed to this whole MLS bit he's doing where he's insisting that MLS is is just as competitive as many top leagues and that there's no reason why a player can't reach the national team while playing in MLS, okay, that's great.
01:03:19
Speaker
So you're watching MLS, you value MLS. Well, are you actually watching MLS? Because if you were and if you're determined to call the top performers – Christian Roldan has been doing the business for quite some time now in major league soccer and, and leagues cup.
01:03:33
Speaker
And if we go back a little ways, you know, he's pretty, tends to be pretty good in a CONCACAF champions cup as well. So why is he not getting the call? And then not, ah not 48 hours later ah he's, he he gets flown in. So, um so yes, a yes you're a moment of Sounders level smug satisfaction for us over at scuffed on, on that one.
01:03:54
Speaker
Good. I'm glad to hear that. And that's a perfect note to end on. I am Jeremiah Shan signing off for Charlie Bowman. Of course, our producer, Lickett. This is Nozadietes, part of the Sounder Heart podcast network, and we will catch you next time.
01:04:36
Speaker
Let's go and Sounders. um