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S01E04: Hello Dear. a conversation podcast about
77 Plays1 year ago
Join hosts Gabe and Jenifer as they attempt to have a frank discussion of discomfort and how it can consume you and your relationships if you don't make a point to twist those titties and slap those buttcheeks.
References made within this episode include:
Recommended
Transcript
Reflecting on the North Carolina Trip
00:00:00
Speaker
Say one more thing. One more thing. So we haven't done this since before we went to North Carolina. Yep. The week before. Yep. And
00:00:23
Speaker
That feels like that was forever ago now. It sure does. It was a different time. It was late March. This is middle April. It's kind of late April because we're past the 15th. Okay. All right.
Introduction to 'Hello, Dear' Podcast
00:00:46
Speaker
Hello, dear. Conversation podcast.
00:00:51
Speaker
about discomfort. Hello, dear. Hello, dear. This is Hello, Dear, a conversation podcast. I'm your co-host, Gabe, and joining me, as always, is my life partner, my best friend, and the gassy blonde lady that is in the kitchen. Hello. Hello. Hello. That's Jennifer. How are you?
00:01:22
Speaker
Yes, I am Jennifer. I don't currently have gas, but I'm mostly blonde. So I guess that works. That's always been my go to for like describing you when I'm wondering if you've been somewhere. Hey, I'm looking for this person. She's, you know, about she's small and blonde and and gassy. And then people just look at me like they don't know.
00:01:48
Speaker
You're not wrong. I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit I have irritable bowel.
Addressing Personal Shortcomings
00:01:55
Speaker
I'm not ashamed to admit that I reflux. This is the joy you married.
00:02:03
Speaker
Does it surprise people, sort of your bowel fluency? Not with the work I do. I break it up because with work I do, people are often shocked and appalled at how comfortable I am talking about my shortcomings.
00:02:25
Speaker
And they tend to think, well, you know, I mean, I do teach punctuation. So there's that whole unit on colons where I make them watch those videos of my colonoscopy preps. But no, I mean, like just in general, like that I'm competent or not competent, I'm comfortable.
00:02:43
Speaker
You know making alcoholism is a problem in our culture jokes. And you know hey don't pick on the diabetic kids that's a totally different kind of diabetes leave them alone if you're gonna pick on diabetes people pick on me and then they all laugh like some folks are really uncomfortable with that.
00:03:03
Speaker
Well, you and I have always bonded over the it's better to laugh than to cry because some of this stuff is just, you know, it's the genetic look of the draw.
Approach to Frustrations and Sensitivity
00:03:16
Speaker
And you can either sit there and moan about it, which is fine. Or you can accept it, work with it, do the best you can and have a laugh now and then. And, you know, along the way, maybe advocate for
00:03:35
Speaker
you know, sensitivity and awareness like, Hey, that's not a joke. That's a person. And by the way, that person's me. And I've always kind of like, like taken it that way. I had to do that with somebody with pronouns yesterday.
00:03:52
Speaker
They kept misgendering someone. So finally, I didn't realize I was doing it till it came out of my mouth. I started, I tapped the table with my rings, tap, tap, tap. Their pronouns are she, they, she, they.
00:04:11
Speaker
And then the lady was real mad and embarrassed. And I said, it's okay. We all are learning together. And then she got really, really mad. And then I just started giggling. I don't know why. Just like that, because, you know,
00:04:30
Speaker
We just have to treat each other with some modicum of kindness and respect. And if you can't do that, you just kind of look like a fool and I'm going to giggle. Cause if I yell at you, then I just give you what you want, which is an argument. I'll give you many things, but I'm not going to give you my time for an argument. I have found that what I call the Nikenji maneuver works really well.
Confronting Assumptions with Mackenzie
00:05:01
Speaker
And I'll explain it. Mackenzie's a friend of mine who is always quick to confront people's assumptions about her.
00:05:13
Speaker
When something happens that galls her, should be appalling, she will immediately lean right into it and ask that person what they think they're doing. So somebody tells her an off-color joke, she's going to lean in and say, what was the funny part of that exactly? Can you explain that to me? And then like, that doesn't win her a lot of friends, but it does
00:05:38
Speaker
get the person away, like to go away without escalating. Sometimes. Well, sometimes is the best we can hope for in today's world. Yeah, I think it's an interesting entry point into conversations about relationships in general.
Trust in Vulnerable Moments
00:06:00
Speaker
Because how do you deal with when your partner, your loved one, whatever steps in it? Because everybody steps in it. So you're, you're really practiced at dealing with when your partner steps in it. Yeah, but I've stepped in it too. And what I mean by stepped in it is just said something that is so God awful.
00:06:29
Speaker
whether it was intentional, whether it was in a, you know, unintentional, a fit of rage, a fit of stupid, whatever it is. There's this weird phenomena that happens with people with whom you have a solid sense of trust. You see this with kids really often.
00:06:52
Speaker
that once they reach a point of intolerable frustration about something doesn't even have to do with the person that they will later do this dumb thing to. But because when they're in relationship with someone, they trust their love, they feel safe enough
00:07:14
Speaker
to just be horrible. Just awful. And sometimes as adults we can catch it like, oh, I'm being a total ass because I had such a terrible day and I had to be quiet about this all day.
00:07:33
Speaker
But I can't do that. I have to stop. I need to take a break. But for the most part, if it's gotten that bad as an adult, you don't catch it till after you've done it. And then you really stepped in it. You know, at least I'll speak for myself in that way.
00:07:52
Speaker
Kids, on the other hand, you know, they get frustrated, they get agitated, you know, and the next thing, you know, they're throwing blacks at their parents or, you know, their beloved dog or you name it. And then, you know, they, they get that release and then move on.
00:08:14
Speaker
I don't know that I have necessarily felt a cathartic moment after acting like an asshole to you. Mostly it just brought out shame and guilt. But I know that there have been times when I have done that and then it's like, oh, that was gross. You know, and then how do you apologize and move forward from that?
00:08:42
Speaker
Oddly enough, I feel like we do that well. And I think for us anyway, it's harder to move past the small slights.
00:08:58
Speaker
that are completely unintentional. And so I bring these things up. It's kind of a vast chasm of assholery that I've brought us into, but with this idea of needing to do repair after, I don't want to call it an attack, but definitely after a,
00:09:29
Speaker
really negative interaction with each other, with an emotional hurt, whether intentional or unintentional. I think it's a worthwhile thing to talk about.
Owning Emotions and Avoiding Blame
00:09:43
Speaker
It's almost tangentially related to a recent Gottman Institute newsletter I happened to have up just because I wanted to bring it up today. Their argument in the headline, which is my favorite headline, it is not your partner's fault. You are angry.
00:10:04
Speaker
Oh, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Right. And I think you and I do a really good job of owning our own emotional states, especially as we get older. We've come to a place where you can just say, listen, I'm angry and sad today, so I'm just going to go be in that moment and I'll try to come around to it tomorrow. Like, I'll try to be more present to the moment now. But like, I've just had so much angry and sad that I got to just
00:10:31
Speaker
take 30 hours to myself. Well, yeah. And it can be hard, though, to do that because when I need when I need space, sometimes that can feel like. I don't want to. I don't need you, which is not it at all.
00:10:52
Speaker
I want and need to know that there is someone safe kind of holding space for me while I go through my shit. If that makes sense. And I think like if, if you're in a long-term relationship with someone figuring out how you need time or how you need
00:11:23
Speaker
space or how you need to process your own feelings, especially if they're intense is really important.
Exploring Love Languages
00:11:33
Speaker
And I hear all the kind of popular culture discussion of love languages. My love language is casseroles, you know, whatever.
00:11:46
Speaker
My love language is acts of service like washing the floor, whatever that is. My love language is shut the fuck up. Yeah, like that might be my love language. My love language is just stay downstairs for a while. My love language is titty twisters and butt slaps.
00:12:13
Speaker
But okay, this is why we're not fit for company. But this is the whole thing, though. If you think about how you express love, it's not just like, I love you, so I'm doing this for you. It's all the nuts and bolts of a relationship that become expressions of long-term love. So we used to joke,
00:12:44
Speaker
your. How did how did we used to say that was essentially like you don't realize it's true love until you have to give someone a suppository for a procedure.
00:13:00
Speaker
You know, those things are not as straightforward as you'd think. No. And that's really antithetical because you'd think they'd go straight in. It's just straightforward. Right. My love language is a lubricated suppository. My love language is that you will give me one of those at-home enemas before a procedure.
00:13:25
Speaker
You know, it's funny. It's funny. Approach with curiosity.
00:13:34
Speaker
and to cultivate butt-centeredness. I don't know, I just, yeah, you know, a lot of people like to couch that conversation, that idea in vows, right? Like the sickness and health and stuff, but like, I don't know, I don't think of it as caretaking so much as it is like,
00:13:58
Speaker
Sometimes we're called on to do the unpleasant thing. And it's a far, far better thing that I do now than I've ever done, which is to shove this little piece of plastic up my friend's ass.
00:14:15
Speaker
Well, I think that's the original ending for A Tale of Two Cities, by the way. To be clear, no suppositories have been used recently. Yeah, not for, I mean, at least 15 years. Yeah, I mean, there's always tomorrow, but today.
00:14:39
Speaker
But I think though that idea of it's not your partner you're angry with is one to reflect on. But it is your partner that you'll want by your side when you're going through some shit.
Supporting without Overstepping
00:15:00
Speaker
Maybe not like following your every step and hovering over you
00:15:06
Speaker
but you'll want that person with you going through this. It's interesting too, because that doesn't mean that they have to co-opt the experience for you and take over everything, take over all the decision making, just take care of me. I'm not talking to you. You're mad, and so I'm going to be mad for you now. It's probably the least helpful response you can get. Yeah, not to fix.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah, or even even we're just co-opt and now we're both mad and now we've got two mad people instead of, you know, right? Yeah, yep, yep, yep. I think it's really it's a it's it's a big part, a big part that I think makes that. For me, and it's an exercise that. This particular podcast requires a lot of of me and I'm happy to continue that, but I, you know,
00:15:58
Speaker
Listening to understand as opposed to waiting to respond has been such a game changer for me in every regard. And it is something I have to really, really work on because I'm always with the severe ADHD and multi-threaded processing that I do. I am always thinking about, okay, what are the 17 different ways I can respond to this?
00:16:23
Speaker
And if I make a point of calming myself and then like looking at the person who's talking with me, if they can handle that and really just trying to listen, like that's this sort of Zen moment that puts me into this place where like I can actually separate myself from the other and have a meaningful experience.
00:16:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard. I think, I mean, you really, you're really, you're really practiced at that. And I think you're really good at it. I have to friggin work on it every single day because I'm, you know, it's just, I'm very comfortable with things sort of, I'm very comfortable with saying things that come off my mouth without ever having really thought about them. And the listening part really helps me.
00:17:17
Speaker
make sure that happens less. Well, I think that I have the introverted version of that, which is I'm actively listening to you and then I want to help you fix it, which is not helpful. And that
00:17:43
Speaker
In some weird ways, I feel like they both reflect some level of loss of control. Like if you control the narrative, then things will be better. If I control the outcome, things will be better. And the truth is it has nothing to do, it has nothing to do with either of us when we're trying to support the other. And that's really hard because no one likes to see someone they care about suffer.
00:18:12
Speaker
And even if it's just suffering and inconvenience, I mean, I'm sure there are some sadistic relationships where that works for them. And I'm not going to kink shame, but like they, they get into the suffering of each other. I don't know. I suppose. I mean, I don't know that it's necessarily a kink, but yes, I'd appreciate what you say. Hey, everybody's got their own way of living, but,
00:18:41
Speaker
I do think that need to rescue versus witness is hard for most people to sit with. And it requires a tremendous amount of trust of each other.
00:19:02
Speaker
and lived experience. I would argue lived experience is probably the thing to do it because the stumbling block for most folks with this stuff is that they have some trust, but they haven't had enough lived experience of that trust being valid and functional.
00:19:26
Speaker
to keep to keep there without trying to fix, without trying to rescue, without trying to control the narrative, without trying to talk somebody out of how they feel. It's it's difficult. I mean, think back to when you were an adolescent and one of your friends was struggling. Did you try to talk him out of feeling crappy?
00:19:55
Speaker
Did you vent with them and get sucked into the toxicity of the frustration? Or did you just actively listen and hold space for them? Jesus, I did not. I did not actively listen and hold space. I dumped into venting. I dumped into trying to fix it, distract them.
00:20:17
Speaker
But just staying with somebody in that moment of their frustration, despair, anger was so uncomfortable and such a mirror for my own discomfort with those feelings in myself. It was hard. It took a lot of lived experience to be able to tolerate that.
00:20:40
Speaker
And and also not to not to completely disavow association with it. Like, well, that's not my shit. That's his shit. Well, yeah, it might be, you know, his or her shit, but you're also sharing space with that person. So how how does that person
00:21:05
Speaker
want support. What does that support look like for them? You can't, you can't just intuit that. That's a conversation and experience together. And even after, you know, 25 years together, 27 years together, whatever it is, sometimes they're just as, uh, I don't know is the only answer you're going to get. Oh God. Yeah. What can I do for you? Nothing. Like literally nothing. This is just my thing to sit with.
00:21:34
Speaker
And that's the hardest for me because it's like, and you do a good job of it, but it's really hard for me to like, you know, just this is,
00:21:47
Speaker
I feel like I've been the one bringing stuff that you just have to sit with a lot lately and like, you know what I mean? Like, cause there's just so much going on in the world that like I'm carrying around that, you know, I come home and, and we both just kind of shut down for a little while and then we have a nice weekend. So I don't know. Yeah. I, I think I, if I could just throw out there,
00:22:12
Speaker
I don't think you bring any more crap home than I do. I think any human being who goes out into the world or interacts with the world, or even if they live a cloistered life, I would guess this happens, acquires a load of discomforts, anger, fear, all the emotions.
00:22:39
Speaker
And to get back to a baseline, everybody's kind of got to figure out how they're going to do that. But can you be present emotionally and physically without being so present that you co
Coexisting with Partner's Emotions
00:22:59
Speaker
-opt those feelings or feel responsible for those feelings or feel like that's really hard.
00:23:06
Speaker
Like I see you, I see you've had a shitty day. I know you have a routine that works for you. I trust you to follow that routine. I'm going to follow mine. Let's, let's do this in parallel and then reconnect when we've had time to restore ourselves. I mean, that's not, not to brag, but that's some high level shit right there.
00:23:33
Speaker
So this is how I envision the alternative version of you and I, where you are the male breadwinner and I am the crazy stay at home lady with 17 babies who now the youngest, oldest of which, or the youngest of which is leaving, right? So you're going to come home from your long day and I'm going to be in the kitchen and my feet are tired because I don't wear shoes. And you're going to look at me and say,
00:24:01
Speaker
What? And I'm going to be really pissed and you're going to be like, what? And I'll be like, there were like four birds looking at me today. Really mean. You got to fix it. Get rid of those, that bird feeder. You've, you've said that. You're right. I have. I thought I was making a fantasy. You've said that buddy. There were four birds out there looking at me. Do something. Don't let all those birds come around here.
00:24:31
Speaker
I believe the response to something along those lines has been, then take down the bird feeder. That bird's a real son of a bitch. Well, right. And clearly in your scenario and in my recollection, you were just really stressed out. I recall this when we lived in Milwaukee.
00:24:59
Speaker
I don't think it was birds. I think it was squirrels. How it was that woodpecker. That's right. You hated that woodpecker so much. That just for the record, that tree is still there and is still dead. Really? Oh, I forgot that it was a woodpecker. It was the woodpecker.
00:25:25
Speaker
I'm sorry that I forgot your woodpecker. I'm sorry I forgot my woodpecker. But I remember this conversation too clearly and just thinking, God damn, he's really mad. That's probably those Thursdays when I was home with Gaia all day. Those can only watch so much Star Trek.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And baby Einstein, but, but more to the point aside from devil woodpeckers that make you so angry, like that's a really good scenario. You just come home from a long day and you walk in the house and for all intents and purposes, your partner's raging about something that's so freaking bizarre.
00:26:18
Speaker
And so not an issue after dealing with big issues all day. And yet it is clearly an issue for them. So, you know, regardless of how not an issue that is for you, it is an issue for them.
00:26:36
Speaker
And it was an issue for you. I think that's one of those moments where, you know, you got it off your chest and then we helped get dinner on the table and you moved on until the woodpecker pissed you off again. But it, you know, how easy would it be to go, you nut job.
00:26:56
Speaker
You're seeing here raging about a woodpecker after I spent 10 hours rustling some kid out of a pond, you know, like, because that's how weird my job is. And
00:27:13
Speaker
I had to revise my email about not catching wild creatures and putting them in the house five times today. And you're worried that some woodpecker is disrespecting you. Yes. But in that moment, that earnestness with which the hatred of the woodpecker had manifested itself in you was so real.
00:27:42
Speaker
Why would you argue against how someone is feeling, even if it seems just bizarre to you? Yeah. I mean, it's that don't ever tell your partner to calm down stuff. Oh my gosh. If you say that to either, if either one of us says that to each other, that's like waving a red cloth in front of a bull. I think for most people it would be.
00:28:08
Speaker
But can you be in the same space having parallel experiences that don't cross over? Can you tolerate that? It depends on, uh,
00:28:23
Speaker
What the woodpecker's up to, I guess. Right, right. No, that's legit. Yes, exactly.
Wrapping Up with Humor
00:28:32
Speaker
Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. And a lot of times it's out the external forces beyond your control. Oh, yeah. Sure. So that's 29 minutes. That's 20 of mine minutes. What did we learn? What did we learn this week? I've got one.
00:28:52
Speaker
Well, I don't have a learn. I have a bumper sticker from a phrase we came together with, right? So I thought that would be another thing we could do is come up with a rather than a life lesson. But here's my bumper sticker from today's show. Are you ready? Yeah. Mirror your discomfort. And then under it says titty twisters and butt slaps. You know,
00:29:22
Speaker
Oh gosh. I guess my bumper sticker would be Mr. Hug It Out and Miss Fix It. Should knock it off. I'm Mr. Hug It Out. I'm Miss Fix It. Thanks for joining us. That's very nice.