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S01E03 Hello Dear: A Podcast about too many swords.
51 Plays1 year ago
Sometimes, when the shit hits the fan, the fan sprays shit all over the house. Sometimes, you're the fan.
This is Hello Dear: A podcast about stuff.
Jeni and Gabe talk about a week of shit hitting the fan. And how to stay strong and supportive of your partner, whether they're the shit or the fan. We talk briefly about the importance of listening and the power of bearing witness.
We also take a moment to discuss an addendum to Grandfather's advice. The wind is just wind. It's what you do with it that makes you strong.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
So, uh, hell of a week, huh? Oh, Jesus. I think that's fair. This is Hello, Dear, a podcast about too many swords
00:00:31
Speaker
Hello, dear.
Meet the Hosts and the Theme
00:00:32
Speaker
Oh, dear. So I honestly have no thoughts about going into this week like what I want to discuss. I had a couple of things that I thought would be nice framing devices, but before we get to that, I guess I should
00:00:49
Speaker
introduce what we're doing here. My name is Gabe, and this is my wonderful, best, bestie, partner, pal, and wife. Squirtiness company. Yeah, we don't do that anymore, not since the injury. This is Hello, Dear, a podcast wherein we talk about things
00:01:17
Speaker
and process our lives together using the framework provided by the Gottman Method.
What is the Gottman Method?
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, do you ever think about the fact that they didn't invent anything?
00:01:35
Speaker
All they did was watch lots of different couples, straight couples, gay couples. I don't know if they did any thrupples, but they just watched people and then took note of what people were doing and how they got through certain things and how they related to each other. And it's based on that observation. Just imagine this human bonobo lab.
00:02:03
Speaker
And I know it was an apartment, but they were wired up. But what's that face? I just, bonobos are so gross. Like I just, I don't want to, I don't want to sit outside the human bonobo lab ever.
00:02:18
Speaker
Oh, but then Bonnaroo. Anyway, but I mean, it's just human observation of human relating. Okay, so that's where a lot of these ideas came from the research and direct human observation in the human bonobo lab, which was a nice apartment with people all hardwired to monitor heart rate and all that stuff. Anyway,
00:02:45
Speaker
I wonder if we were in that lab, what all our physiological ratings would have been this week.
Stress Management: Gabe's Experience
00:02:57
Speaker
It was a shit week. I turned out I didn't wear my watch at all this week. So I have no data, which is actually kind of nice.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yes. It's better not to know you're about to stroke or have a heart attack. Honestly, because in the past I've noticed I can look back at my graphs and see, oh, this was a week. Oh, that was like, you can see the peaks where, you know,
00:03:26
Speaker
I was going through changes. When I was first adjusting to wearing that, and I still really do enjoy wearing it, but when I was first adjusting to wearing a Fitbit that kept track of my heart rate, I found it very validating to be able to know that whatever's going on in the world is manifesting right now with an elevated heart rate, and so I should sit down and just ground and chill because I'm not going to get eaten by a tiger anytime soon.
00:03:54
Speaker
right and like that was really super valuable and I still find it valuable but like then the gamification started and now I want to win the watch and that I have to stop like you can't win health like that's creepy I guess you could but
00:04:10
Speaker
Well, I just don't like my phone. My phone, I haven't turned off the thing yet where it yells at me and says, hey, come on, buddy, 34 more steps and you'll have a streak of four days. It woke me up for that.
00:04:31
Speaker
I don't get it. That's why I won't do that. That's why I won't wear one because I don't want to
Weekly Stress Recap
00:04:37
Speaker
do that. But I mean, back to the stressors of this week and how that manifests in relationship, I thought it was really interesting.
00:04:48
Speaker
I mean, I'm not going to go into the details of all the shit that went wrong. I mean, aside from dearly getting killed on the interstate with a massive blowout, but aside from that. I mean, that was just late week wrap up stuff. Yeah.
00:05:05
Speaker
Honestly, yes, which is why when you forgot your card at the drag bar yesterday, it was kind of like, oh, that's nothing. That's nothing. Yeah. Turn around. It's just 10 miles back and a little bit of stress. I'm sure, and of course they had everything waiting for you because I'm sure we're not the first or the last people to accidentally leave their credit card in a giant high heel. Yeah.
00:05:32
Speaker
I feel like that's the system working as designed. Yes. Thank you, Hamburger Mary, for being so gentle and kind with two very stressed out human beings who just wanted to play a little bit. I just wanted a little breakfast. A little drag brunch, never hurt anyone.
00:05:53
Speaker
It only made things better, especially when one of them gives you a car watch. Hey, it was very fun. And it was a good send off as we embark in the WW spending hiatus.
Managing Stress as a Couple
00:06:14
Speaker
So one of the things I observed though, is that in the stressors of this week,
00:06:23
Speaker
I think we did a really good job of turning towards, but also taking steps back to take care of ourselves in the ways that it's appropriate for us to do as individuals. Sometimes when I hear that idea of turning toward, it just makes me think of like, do you remember those manchi cheese?
00:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, they like clung to each other all the time. They're like basically a chip clip with fur on it, I guess. But they had like opposed thumbs that could stick in like their mouth or their mouths and you could trade them. Yeah, they could link them together. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of bonobo. Oh, God, it's a monkey thing this week. Anyway, but
00:07:17
Speaker
You know, it doesn't mean you turning toward doesn't mean you cling to each other. That's creepy. That's codependence and not very fun. And, you know, something you and I are very vigilant about, you know, lives together, lives apart.
00:07:33
Speaker
But we did. We turned towards each other. We turned towards ourselves as well, which I think is the necessary balance to that. I'm grateful for our family help and each other. I'm really grateful to you for doing some self-care for yourself. I am because then it helped us be able to problem solve as much as we could with some of the things that occurred.
00:08:02
Speaker
You know, I never felt at any time like this butthole. How dare I never do you know what I mean? I only felt like, oh, my God, what are we going to do? Like, what are we going to do? And then, you know.
00:08:26
Speaker
At the end of the week, it was so absurd. It was like everything that could go wrong had really kind of started to just take a crap. Everything. Bad dinners. In addition to everything else, just things that were, it was just like it had pile is like the tennis swords.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, like just too many swords. There was a sword sticking in your back. There was a sword sticking in your foot. There was swords piled over there so you couldn't sit down. There were swords over here. Some of the swords were that the the mian was too salty. Other swords were
00:09:07
Speaker
Other swords were that the entire life universe and existence is pointless. Like it was really the wide sort of scale. The dog stole my cortisone cream tube and hit it somewhere. I still can't find it.
00:09:23
Speaker
Timmy started to eat my reading glasses. I mean, this, you name a dumb thing. I can't find any of the new socks I bought. I mean, so from the really big things to like just the daily living stuff, just, it was a bad week.
00:09:41
Speaker
It was and this is I think part of our practice of turning toward and I will return your compliment and say that I did feel supported and I did not feel
00:09:55
Speaker
blamed by anyone other than myself and that you helped coach me through that so that I wasn't spiraling in that shame and blame cycle.
Active Listening Techniques
00:10:05
Speaker
A big part of that was because I did do something that is really hard for me and it was what I was thinking about for today's show, which is we listened to one another.
00:10:20
Speaker
That's not a thing that is good for me. I am a monologueist. I'm waiting. I pause the monologue so that
00:10:30
Speaker
I can wait to get my words in. That's what happens when you facilitate education 24-7, right? The listening is part of the feedback loop, but only to adjust the monologue. So I have this week in particular made a huge, huge effort to pause that monologue and try to not have a rebuttal, but to just witness what we were in the mid stuff.
00:11:00
Speaker
Why, Mr. Wollenhat, did you engage in active listening? No, not so much as I just engaged in witnessing, active witnessing. I'm very good at magnifying acceptance and avoiding judgment. It's the letting the conversation
00:11:19
Speaker
It's the questioning whether or not I have to add something to this conversation that I struggle with. You know what I mean? Like, okay, that became like, you know, you would say, hey, you know what? Like, okay, we'll get through it. And my normal thing is things, okay, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and run down like all the reasons why you saying I'll get through this is wrong because I screwed up this, that, and that. And instead I just said, okay, yeah, we'll get through it. Witness. Yes, we will get through this. And then we'll have another thing.
00:11:49
Speaker
and it will get better and I think that was a huge part of not feeling alone in this crisis.
Supporting Each Other Under Stress
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny because we take turns with that. We take turns with the, well, this is it, you know, get the tombstone and the RIP because we're not getting through this one. This crisis, you know, you had those feelings in prior crises. I've had that feeling. And so I think that one of the things that
00:12:26
Speaker
We have as a strength, aside from having friendship and respect for each other, is the fact that we can take turns with that. Because different life experiences, different historic traumas can trigger different responses to whatever negative stimuli we're experiencing.
00:12:47
Speaker
And I think this week was a terrible week in so many ways, but a firming week in some of the lesser lauded ways. Like it's just so ironic because a person who shall remain nameless. And I explained, you know, some of the stuff that was happening, culminating with the explosion at 80 miles an hour.
00:13:13
Speaker
And their comment to me was to talk about how great it is that this other person in their life just graduated college and got an $85,000 a year job. It's like, what do these two things have to do with each other?
00:13:32
Speaker
How does that tie together? And so when I'm thinking about those historic financial trauma stuff and we're in it together or just validation of stress,
00:13:50
Speaker
a beautiful crystallization of the narcissistic response to a person's distress right there. And I hear that you're feeling stressed about finances. You know, this other one is doing great.
00:14:09
Speaker
This is so much better than you. What are you feeling? What do you need? What are your choices? How can I help? What's the worst case? What's your ideal solution? None of that, which would be helpful. Actually, you were a model of that. First thing, when the week started off, I came upstairs and I said, I need to go do something. You said, well, how can I help? In the moment, it's really hard.
00:14:35
Speaker
Like and sometimes just saying how can i help is enough help knowing that you don't want it i don't want to do this you don't want me to do this but i have to go do this and that you want to help. Is support enough knowing that that even if this is a thing i have to do alone you are there.
00:14:54
Speaker
to support me is super helpful and validating and in supportive. So I guess thank you. But I love how that compares so well to your other experience. Like, how can I help? Listen, I got to go do this other thing. Yeah, there's no joke there. So I guess I'm not going to make it. But you know, yeah, like how could how what is the worst thing you could have said? It would have been like, do you need me to go to the liquor store?
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we each have our own little little nuggets with that one. I think the worst thing that could have been said to me at that point was, well, I'll be right back. I'm going to go wipe my ass with hundred dollar bills.
00:15:37
Speaker
That's the only way that could have been worse. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that, which would have been almost validating, but more like, hold on, I gotta go wipe my ass with $100 plus, not even, I'm sorry to hear that.
00:15:53
Speaker
Anyway, it's just, you know, when we talked about breaking through generational trauma, we've brought that up before. When we've talked about, you know, the new and unique ways, we've probably messed up our own child because that's just inevitable. If you're human beings, you're imperfect, you're going to screw some stuff up. You know, I'm sorry that we did that, but, you know, we'll try to figure it out together and pay for lots of
00:16:21
Speaker
therapy, whatever you need, you know, I mean, just accepting the fallibility of those before us and ourselves and those after us, I think is probably the best that you can do. But it does make me think that, you know, can I admit something that's that's probably an unpopular opinion and going to make me sound like a jerk. But I really hate.
00:16:45
Speaker
This grinds my gears. Oh, good. Yes. A show within a show. Yeah. When people. Go through something shitty and then they say, but I had gratitude. I I was so grateful for this. Isn't that man? That's not at all what I'm saying about this stuff. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I have. Sure. There's lessons to be learned through this and it may end up. It's it's yet to be decided if we come through in a better place, but like.
Gratitude During Hardships: Genuine or Not?
00:17:15
Speaker
I'm in no way grateful for the opportunity. Like, I mean, like, you know, I don't know, one of the...
00:17:23
Speaker
It just reminds me of the turn the other cheek crap, which I also don't buy into. Like, why would you slap me on the other side, too? Why should I be grateful to have to put myself and my family through an ordeal that could have been avoidable? But it wasn't. And even if it was avoidable, it was through no one's fault. It was a system error. And then
00:17:53
Speaker
You know, why do I have to be grateful for that? I could be grateful. The only thing I can think of is that I can be grateful that you and I have spent so much of our time together trying to figure out how to work these things together. And so I'm grateful for those experience. I'm not grateful for going through something crappy. No, they're grateful for the hard work that went into getting through that.
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, and just to put too sharp of a point on it, let me rehash some past traumas, okay? Oh, fun. It's okay. Trust me, I'm going somewhere with this, right? So you were in a pretty serious car accident a couple of years ago, 10 years ago, while driving a white Toyota Yaris.
00:18:45
Speaker
OK, do you remember this? Remember that car? That car was so awful. Yes. And and you skidded and you slid down the highway, right? And you were facing the wrong direction and going, oh, God, this is going to end poorly. Like I remember you describing that that time slows down moment. Right. And and things happen and collisions occur and. At no point. Have I ever thought
00:19:14
Speaker
Well, but at least she figured out what we're gonna do with that Yaris. I mean, right? Like the goal is not there. I would have much rather just frankly, driven it to a dump, driven it to a landfill and push it over the edge. Like anything would have been better. Thank goodness the Yaris problem has been solved.
00:19:43
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, well, yeah, I mean, getting through difficult times, you know, together, you know, regardless of the configuration of the people in relationship is really.
Value and Transaction in Hardship
00:20:03
Speaker
It's not a test of the metal of your commitment to each other. It's not a test of your own inner fortitude. It is simply an experience that you go through. I think ascribing value to hardship, it's too transactional. It's just too transactional. It simply is a thing.
00:20:33
Speaker
You know, I don't know. Maybe I'm well pragmatic. No, not at all. In fact, you know, a very important piece of poetry to me is is the legend of the warrior, right? The guy who was walking up the hill. I'm going to leave a lot of the.
00:20:50
Speaker
material out of that because it's a great poem and I'll put a link to it, but the lyric says the wind isn't pushing against you to be mean, nor is it pushing against you to make you strong. It's pushing against you. What are you going to do about it?
00:21:12
Speaker
Right. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Because you can't control anything else but your own responses to things. You really can't. And even then, it can be difficult to control those things at times too. So you have to do the work.
Self-Care vs. Commercialization
00:21:29
Speaker
advance if you can and not everyone has the luxury to do that at every point in their life or the or the to even be given an experience to learn the skills to do so and no you don't need to pay fifteen thousand dollars to go to a week-long retreat and
00:21:49
Speaker
in a tropical environment with free-flowing gauzy palazzo pants and uncomfortable massages from a strange facilitator. I'm just saying. It seems like that is a theme we've come up now two weeks in a row. Oh, it really bothers me. Yeah. Talk more about that. Well, commoditizing, learning how to deal with life.
00:22:18
Speaker
seems really unreasonable. Okay, so I'm following you, I'm following you, and I'm trying, I guess I'm connecting. I mean, I know a lot of the history of why you feel this way, and so we don't need to go there. But when I think about it in terms of stuff that gets weird about it is that in a lot of ways, that's my job, right?
00:22:47
Speaker
I know I think about that every day with the work I do as well, but that is different. That is nice. Well, here's the difference, though. That's not just learning life skills. That's that's 24 hour support for folks in crisis or folks who are needing such intensive focus on skill development that they are unable to cope
00:23:16
Speaker
and survive in the world. And we can assess that. Having said that though, that should be accessible to every human being.
00:23:26
Speaker
that should be, that's a human right. Well, and I guess that's where I'm going with like, I think the, where the difference, and I'm not calling names or anything, but like, it has to be authentic and it's really obvious when it's not. And, you know, like for me, when I'm talking, if there are kids who I don't feel a connection to, I have to work harder
00:23:56
Speaker
To see who else can help them because a lot of times then that just means that that kid and i don't have work to do together and it's really interesting when i look at it in terms of like i get so much flack for being the.
00:24:10
Speaker
non rigorous hippie teacher, right? But like, you know, like I feel like there's no amount of doing complicated math problems that's going to make this kid feel good about himself. Like, right. And not everybody's got to be college bound. I don't understand that either. We have created access to so much
00:24:39
Speaker
to be that we've commoditized so much that is just necessary for being. We've commoditized the value of human beings. Yes, yes, yes. I could go on a rant about late stage capitalism, but I mean, the reality is though that there's misery and suffering in the world and I'm not here to fix that. I'm not here to fix that. No one person is here to fix that.
Intentions Behind Helping Professions
00:25:05
Speaker
But we are here to try to do the best we can and whenever possible, help others along the way. And if more folks had the ability to do that or wanted to do that, I think the world would be a better place. I have no savior complex.
00:25:25
Speaker
I have my own issues. I can't save anybody. And I think that's a thing that gets really in the air quotes, helping professions. I'm not sure I'm actually in a helping profession, but I approach it that way. And that's another topic for another time. I do a lot of helping. And in the helping professions, there always are those that are there because they want
00:25:51
Speaker
to be the hero. That is never my MO. That's a big change for me over the course of my life. But at the same time, I watch other people like, well, I can solve this. And they get, they step in and they, you know. Well, it's a very power over approach. I mean, we've seen that in relationships as well, where one of them is going to save the relationship.
00:26:20
Speaker
How would that even work? Both people have to want it. All the people in the relationship have to want it. It's not a hero act.
00:26:36
Speaker
It's a group effort, which is why I make everyone mad in my undisclosed location for when we have big projects and we do okay with it. I say, it took a village.
00:26:50
Speaker
And they just roll their eyes. It's serious. If we want to make effective lasting change, it takes everybody's little part of it. There is no one, there's no hero in that. If there are heroes, it's you in your own life. I mean, be your own hero. I don't know. I really do think a lot about
00:27:19
Speaker
The Gottman stuff is about, no, intimate relationships. I don't mean like, you know, sexy relationships, which is about intimate relationships.
Self-Preservation in Relationships
00:27:29
Speaker
And I think it easily expands to human relationships in general.
00:27:38
Speaker
You know, and there are some people in your life that for your own and best interest, you do need to turn against your turn away. And that's okay. Right. Yeah. Somebody keeps dragging you to the bonobo cage. You don't have to follow them. No, no. You don't have to keep going to the bonobo cage with that guy. Just say like, no, you know what? I'll meet you over here at the weird aquarium.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, and if you, well, it's true. And if you are with someone that is not with you, like turning against you, turning away from you, and the times you turn toward each other, especially when the shit hits a fan,
00:28:29
Speaker
I mean, it's not heroic to try to make that work. It's not heroic. It can be self annihilating. I'm not saying all our acts need to be, you know, hero driven or altruistic, but I am saying that it is okay for there to be self preservation. And I just wish there were more opportunities to talk about
00:28:57
Speaker
self-preservation being okay.
00:29:01
Speaker
and that if you choose to spend extensive amounts of your time with each other, honoring the ability to preserve that sense of self, that bit of necessary ego to be able to carry on, then that's a good thing. That's a good thing. And that lets you turn towards each other when things get really weird or really that strong sense of self.
00:29:29
Speaker
And we've always said this from the very beginning, that strong sense of knowing who you are and finding someone or someones to be in your life that makes that person feel even better about who they are.
Conclusion: Self-Reliance and Mutual Support
00:29:46
Speaker
Like that's the cool deal there. That's amazing.
00:29:55
Speaker
And if you're looking for someone to complete you, you will never find them because only you can complete you. And I know that's not romantic. I know that's not find your twin soul flame from the Hallmark section of your local store.
00:30:17
Speaker
But of all the life experiences that I've had and that we've shared together as friends and then in relationship, it just, that keeps being validated over and over by my lived experience. Your mileage may vary. You know what I learned today? What? I learned that Jenny ain't here to fix that.
00:30:47
Speaker
I can't fix anything. I learned that you need to be your own hero. And I learned that I really actually am grateful that we didn't have to solve the Yars problem. Yeah.
00:31:07
Speaker
Agreed. I would like to have not have been that way. Ahead on collision on the interstate is not a good road to go. I learned that sometimes I am not anything but a bit of a curmudgeon and you still love me. So thank you for loving this curmudgeon. It was very sweet of you.
00:31:48
Speaker
There we go. We'll call that a show. 33 minutes. Good job.