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Exploring the Intersection of Space and Urban Living
79 Plays1 year ago
Laura Winterling's insights shed light on the parallels between space exploration and everyday life, emphasizing the significance of human connection and effective decision-making in navigating uncertainty and fostering growth in any setting.
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Transcript
Introduction of Laura Winterling
00:00:19
Speaker
So hi, my name is Natalia Rincon and I'm welcoming all of you again.
00:00:24
Speaker
here to unraveling Citi's podcast. This is our fifth episode. And this is a fangirl moment for me, because I would never have expected that we would have this kind of cast in the podcast, in these episodes. And now I feel that I don't know anything. And I just want to know a lot of stuff from you.
00:00:50
Speaker
Thank you for being here, now introducing our guest. She's a physicist, a former astronaut instructor, an entrepreneur, and a commercial helicopter pilot. Her name is Laura Winterling, so welcome, Laura. Thank you so much for having me.
Challenges for Astronauts: Emotional and Social Support
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's an honor, really. And now I have to ask you basic questions about astronauts. Go ahead.
00:01:20
Speaker
So we know that one of the best things of astronauts is like when you're out in space and you see the view, right? But what would be the worst thing for astronauts?
00:01:31
Speaker
The worst thing, of course, there are many things that are not considered ideal. First of all, for everyone who's listening, I have not been to space, so don't confuse it. But I've trained those guys for quite some time, and they're, to most part, friends now. And honestly, the worst thing that pops into my mind straight away is if you're not fine with your family while you're in space.
00:01:58
Speaker
And it's nothing that you would consider straight away, but it's something that is of vital importance. And I think this goes for everyone who's working hard, everyone who's devoted to a certain job, that you need to have a very stable social environment. And because they are so far away and they're very detached and they cannot just go home, it's very important that they're fine with family and friends.
00:02:24
Speaker
But I think your question was more looking for a more technical kind of answer.
Handling Unforeseen Problems in Space Missions
00:02:30
Speaker
So, well, it all starts from a year a day away from launch. And this has happened. Tim Kopra is unfortunately an example for it, that he was on his last scheduled shuttle flight and he hopped on a bicycle. And unfortunately, the day before his launch, he breaks his hip.
00:02:49
Speaker
And he has to see the shuttle go. And the shuttle retired afterwards. And that would have been his last chance. He got to fly on a Soyuz rocket with the Russians later on. But obviously, those are things that are just not for a scene. But then the list goes on. It's endless.
00:03:05
Speaker
yeah sitting in a rocket that has a failure being on board while your loved ones down here are experiencing trouble i think it's always when you think of worst things it's it's what it's the the problem that you're far away and you cannot act on something and they've been people in space on the space station and one of their parents died for example
00:03:29
Speaker
Of course, we're starting off with something really sad. We'll ramp it up. Don't worry, guys. We'll ramp it up. But it's something worth considering because you are an entrepreneur, I am. And we all have our fair share of putting lots of energy and drive into what we do in our daily business, in our ideas and dreams. And we need to have a stable surrounding.
00:03:52
Speaker
And it all breaks down to that, I think. Yeah. And I guess it's the expectation also, right? Like all the work that you're putting and you're building this expectation of what the future looks like or what you're going to accomplish. And then when it doesn't happen or you're very close, then, you know, there's this feeling of failure, I guess.
00:04:15
Speaker
Well, you know, it's not just gravity that pulls you down to the ground. It's also reality sometimes, right? And I think we are very fortunate that we can hunt our dreams and that we can become the best version of who we are and live out our potential. You are, I am, lots of people can do that. First world country problems, right?
00:04:39
Speaker
And reality sometimes kicks back. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It just, I think it reminds us all that, Hey, how cool is it that we can play in the world and around it and above it? Yeah, but the most important things is the why are we doing this and who are we doing it for? So there's all of a sudden there's a philosophy episode. But I like this, you know, because there's some,
00:05:08
Speaker
I think you're opening in a very nice way. We all have very important jobs here. And we were building cities. We were speaking about cities. And investments in cities are very big. And you have to consider a lot of things also. So it's never so easy to build a city. You feel kind of responsible when you're having that kind of a position.
Laura's Journey to Becoming an Astronaut Instructor
00:05:30
Speaker
But before we go into that, let me ask you, how did you actually become an astronaut instructor?
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, can you tell me a little bit about your story?
00:05:40
Speaker
fun question, right? I mean, I'm trying to make it short. Whoever is here for can chip in for three hours because it's quite a nice story. But I'm trying to make it short. I because I applied is the easiest answer. I was not afraid to apply. So that's the first thing. And this is already something that lots of people are scared of like, Oh, there's this chance by would I be good enough? Isn't that too far away? Maybe this is not my profile. Stop thinking like that. Stop it. Stop it. Because one person needs to have the job and it could be you so and
00:06:10
Speaker
Hopefully, thankfully, I'm a very stubborn person. If I break it down, I got it also because I studied physics. People, for some weird reason, and all of us who have studied natural sciences live off of that, is that people give us a lot of credit for it. It's like, oh, yeah, I think they're smart. It's like, oh, thanks, guys. I'm taking that, right? So you open doors for me. So at least I can stand in that door frame.
00:06:39
Speaker
But the reason why I was allowed to walk through that frame and then eventually get a job in the European Astronaut Center in Cologne in Germany is not because of physics, it's because of the other part of my brain that I always tried to get together people and do this kind of, now it's called networking, but when I was studying,
00:07:00
Speaker
I organized excursions for students in our natural sciences to go and look at companies. And one of those, this company, so to say, was ESA, the European Space Agency. And I was halfway through my studies, only at that point. And I walked into this still the same sliding door into the astronaut center. And it hit me like, wow, this is home. Cool. I found it. I need to get here. Hell, how do I get here?
00:07:27
Speaker
So it was more that I did something that I loved doing, which was getting people together and getting them out of their houses and off of their couches and telling them, say, come on, we can tackle the world. Let's do this together that I found this place. So it's a combination of being stubborn and physics, but also doing what I loved.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah.
Qualities Required in Astronauts and Instructors
00:07:50
Speaker
And I was really annoying. I also have to say that to if, if anyone who's listening can relate to that. So I'm very annoying. So if I really want something I can camp in this doorframe. Okay, we'll put up my tent and take my pillow and people have to see you're like a mosquito. Yeah, well, yeah, maybe without an annoying noise. But I don't necessarily take a no, then I just smile and wait until everyone is so annoyed that I just say, Oh, just just, okay, let her do it. So that she goes away.
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah. So I think this is also talent. Yeah, the roles that talent.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yesterday, someone was asking me, I was in another event, and someone was asking me about entrepreneurship, what it takes to be an entrepreneur. And someone said, like, courage. And then I continue, like, resilience. And the person next to me said, like, yes, courage and resilience. That's what you need, right? So now you're describing yourself like you're stubborn.
00:08:57
Speaker
And you have this other part of your brain that is networking and that you're perseverant and annoying. But I would call that like resilient, right? That's the diplomatic way, yes, to say it. Annoying and stubborn. Exactly. But I mean, those are all qualities that intrapreneurs have as well. And a lot of people have. But if you would describe, so, well, yeah.
00:09:25
Speaker
Going back to the center of our sheep like they asked me like so who is an entrepreneur like if I have these qualities and we were speaking with immigrants and so on and like you know people that move and leave everything behind and they take courage to go to another country.
00:09:42
Speaker
And they basically have all these qualities of being an entrepreneur. They take risks. They are resilient. They push, and so on. And then in that kind of sense, I have to call you that you might be an astronaut. Maybe you haven't been in space, but you're an astronaut. You have all this stubbornness, perseverance. You know about physics. You know what needs to be done to do the work.
00:10:10
Speaker
you as an astronaut in in eref or working very close to them
00:10:16
Speaker
What do you think are all these qualities that you have to have to be one? Oh, gosh. This episode will now be five hours longer, not just three. Cool. What a topic. We could write books about this Italian. So thanks for asking this question. And it's a very important one. And I should have notes because I should write down all my thoughts. First of all, I think, so what's an entrepreneur? Let's start there again.
00:10:52
Speaker
it has served me quite well. And you know it and others who have tried things also know it. And I learned it the hard way also in astronaut selection because I did put my CV in and I had to say goodbye in the last 30 Germans last year. So I didn't make it. You have to have... Resilient is a word that is
00:11:10
Speaker
I love it that I'm annoying and stubborn. I just do it with a smile now.
00:11:15
Speaker
Around now in a lot of different places I don't necessarily like it I don't know why but it comes down to the point you try something and you hit rock bottom with it because someone tells you no I don't like you in a certain way and then you have to deal with it and you have to go home.
00:11:33
Speaker
maybe cry a little bit, maybe eat your ice cream, but find the strength to just say, okay, maybe the next time. Or there's a reason for it. So I think it's you need hope. You need hope.
00:11:49
Speaker
and hope can be stubborn as well. So I think this is, you're not thrown down by other people telling you, no, you didn't have a chance for that. You just think, okay, well, then I create one or there must be another one.
00:12:05
Speaker
So I think it's hope, what makes an entrepreneur an entrepreneur, right? Because you said it with immigrants. So that was the second point. If you want to do something, you want to start something, and you want to get out of a normal routine, where I'm not trying to evaluate it, everyone who is working for a company or in a company and is employed, hey, guys, great, you have a job. Wonderful. I mean, I used to have a job for a very long time and was employed.
00:12:31
Speaker
So no evaluation on it but if you want to break that routine i think there's only two ways to do it and the first one is the easiest one if you're forced to. Your job breaks away and you're forced to do something or you have to leave your country so there's not much you can do you can try and be creative to find options but something is pushing you right.
00:12:54
Speaker
So I think this is something where you are somehow pushed to jump. And the second one is where you have the option to be risk-free in a sense where you can slowly find a niche where you can live out your dream or be creative or build a company or something. So these are just two different thoughts. But now the interesting one, okay.
00:13:19
Speaker
everyone's sleeping outside come on or she asked a way more interesting question what does it take to be an astronaut people need to understand and i also need to understand this sometimes because it does hit me back i don't get to fly right now i was not granted until now not yet i have to say not yet the chance
00:13:41
Speaker
to be one of those few human beings to see Earth from above. And it's hard to accept it because I think life would be so much better if I could do it and if more and more people could do that. But we all have to live against the standard and the profile of another company or in my case that agency.
00:14:00
Speaker
Right. And you said it very nicely. I'm taking that. Thank you. I think we could all be astronauts. I think lots of people have those qualities, traits, characteristics. And let me just let me just sum up a couple that spring to my mind. So the first one is
00:14:18
Speaker
In my experience, astronauts needed to have three things, or they all had three things in common. Let's put it that way. They're very social beings. They like other human beings. They like to be around them, but they can also be very fine by themselves. They're very curious. They're like children, unbelievable. So you have these 50, 60 year olds that you're teaching, but they're like children.
00:14:41
Speaker
Oh, what is this? Can I push this button? Oh, what does this do? Don't touch it. Yeah. So they're touching all the spacecraft as well. Yeah. So you're curious and you need to be because it's still a business becoming an astronaut where it's agency based. So you have to go through years of training and you have to sit in training every day. And most of us are not used to learning every day. You get out of school or university and then you just
00:15:09
Speaker
do something but it's not necessarily sitting down in the classroom but they have to. So they're very curious. And the third one is you have to be very reliable. And reliable, now this can go out like a branch, right? It's a tree being reliable and it's about true to yourself, have motivation to sit down, do something every day or new things or repeat something true to your crewmates because they rely on you.
00:15:36
Speaker
And they rely on you, not just that you're there and you show up the next day, but that you know yourself. And now this is something that goes into the direction that I love about this whole topic of having trained astronauts and now talking about it. And by the way, writing a book about it. Ah, I have to get one copy of that. Yeah, it's still in my brain. I need to get it from my brain into my hands and onto paper.
00:16:07
Speaker
you have to know yourself, you have to get to know yourself. So for those of you who don't know, but Natalia and I, we met during an event, right? And we both had a keynote speech there. And I get to talk a lot about from perfection to excellence. Yeah. And it's something that is very dear to me, because I also saw it in all of them.
00:16:32
Speaker
during those training phases that it's not at all about perfection. Like, please, please, guys, do you think now? Yeah, but Laura is German. She grew up with this and said, yes, now imagine how hard this is for me to realize that perfection doesn't get you into orbit at all, like not even a bit closer. You need to lock yourself in your room and be very honest. Stand in front of the mirror and just try and find out who you are.
00:16:57
Speaker
What triggers you? When are you getting stressed? How does that show? When are you considering yourself to be good? When are you considering yourself to be a reliable partner? When are you considering yourself to be a good friend? And when not? And then please try and find the words to it to communicate because we all lack telepathy.
00:17:20
Speaker
And this is something that is very apparent in all of those guys who have flown or are going to fly. They learn to talk about their flaws. So the biggest character trait is to openly communicate, hey, I really get hangry very easily. I try and make it up.
00:17:45
Speaker
to everyone because I'm taking care of myself, I'm taking snacks with bees. If I forget or if I run out of snacks, please don't talk to me or give me snacks, something like that.
00:17:57
Speaker
So it's a fun way to say it, but you're living in a tin can for six months. You need to know yourself and you need to let others know how you react and how you can work best. Because it's not about you and people confuse that. They see a picture of an astronaut. And if I say astronaut now and everyone can just tell me, you know,
00:18:16
Speaker
what they think. I think we all paint the same picture as this person in this wide big suit with the helmet, right? Or walking to a rocket with a helmet, right? It's always about this helmet thing that makes you national. And it's this grand hero picture, you know, painted with sun setting and a rocket flaming up and something like that, right? So we all have the same picture. And it's this hero image about an alpha person
00:18:46
Speaker
who takes all the risk and courage to travel to outer space and they say, No, please. I mean, great picture. I love it. It's romantic, right? But it's about people. It's about a real team we're putting together. If not the best alpha team that you can imagine. Yeah. And this is what the trick is. It's about putting yourself your ego behind. Yeah.
00:19:10
Speaker
So you said a lot of very interesting things, actually, like that I'm relating like to not only being an entrepreneur or a human or whatever, but I mean,
00:19:24
Speaker
I think you're describing as well someone that takes risks. And when I think of the industry we're in, I mean, we are a tech company in cities. We want to disrupt cities. So when you're describing this, I guess that
00:19:42
Speaker
There's a lot of discussion around prop tech and real estate and CDs from the venture capitalist side and from the customers that are using these and so on. And the discussion goes back and forth into why is real estate not taking the leap? Not really taking the leap to adopt this new technology.
00:20:11
Speaker
I know i'm going back to that so real estate has been very risk averse so it's an industry that comes from banks and the legacy is from this you know assessing your risks and taking the least risky option and i guess in a way when you're.
00:20:29
Speaker
You said very important things because when you're becoming an astronaut, you want everything to perfection. Everything has to go well, right? When you're launching, everything has to work well. But in the talk that I saw you gave and I know here you're saying something very interesting. You're saying that from perfection to excellence and then perfection doesn't get you to orbit.
00:20:56
Speaker
And I find that very interesting. It's like, so there's no such thing as excellence or even maybe that's like a very eutopic thing or concept. But when you see perfection doesn't get you to orbit, then I guess we just have to take risks. Even in the riskier, riskiest environments, it being that launching a rocket to the moon or investing.
00:21:26
Speaker
you know, financially investing in an asset.
Decision-making: Overcoming Perfectionism
00:21:30
Speaker
I find that very, very interesting. Also about this, like creating an alpha team. So how can you deal with not being perfect and not being excellent and then, you know, leaving your fear behind? I mean, how do you become that alpha without being perfect, that alpha team, that alpha member in this alpha team? Good question. Right. So, um, we're,
00:21:55
Speaker
You're jumping between the... Yeah, now I'm all over the place. Basically your environment and mine. But no, no, it's good. I'm trying to weave that net for everyone who's listening because you haven't seen my slides to it. Natalia knows my slides for it. They're very cool. With this perfection and excellence. And when I say perfection, I'm not saying don't put enough time and effort into finding a very good solution for whatever your problem is.
00:22:22
Speaker
not at all, because don't confuse precision with perfection. When I speak about perfection, so the definition for me is people who are not willing to decide on something.
00:22:34
Speaker
And that can be either in an abnormal situation, anything. For me, it's sitting in a helicopter and a red light comes on and it says engine fire above. Then I should not be thinking about, oh, I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's not exactly what it's trying to tell me. Let me just rethink that.
00:22:58
Speaker
No, that's not the moment like red light comes on your landing. You can think about that later, right? So and but we have these red light moments a lot and I see them in in people.
00:23:09
Speaker
In teams, in companies, I see them not culture-dependent. It's a very different culture in countries, all the same, that people are just hesitant to take action. Because they feel like, and it's especially in Western countries, because somehow this is in our genes, this whole.
00:23:28
Speaker
what I think perfection is, that we want to have, we want to know everything, we want to have the whole palette of information. And if we just have the slightest feeling that we do not have all the information right now, we're hesitant to make a decision, where we will be completely able and could be completely confident
00:23:51
Speaker
taking that what you call a leap and decide on something. And of course, it's not a lethal decision, whether, oh, could I bake this cake if I don't have the whole recipe? But go on and bake it. I mean, what happens if it goes wrong? Nothing. And it's a very different decision if you are trying to make an investment for a whole company and it goes into millions of your currency. And so it's a very different proportion. But
00:24:21
Speaker
Nevertheless, it boils down to people are hesitant to make decisions. And that is something that is absolutely not
00:24:29
Speaker
what we need if you're flying in a rocket. If you're sitting in a rocket and please, you should all think about whoever you're driving with in your car. You want someone who can take an action. If someone is braking in front of you, if you're going, I'm German, right? So if you're going at 200 on the Audubon, right? You better have someone that you trust that can hit the brakes hard if it is necessary and not think about saying, oh, maybe I could do it the other way. No.
00:24:54
Speaker
No, no, do it. Don't be afraid. So the perfection part that doesn't bring us into orbit is being hesitant and thinking that we could acquire more information and that would give us just this little bit more of
00:25:11
Speaker
being propelled forward where it's actually quite the opposite because everyone around you, all your competitors, they will never have this information. So they will just decide and guess who will win? Well, your competitor. And you will think like, but he didn't have the right setup. Why did they move? Because they just did.
00:25:30
Speaker
And now we'll see that, and probably you see it in your business, you see it now with commercial space flight, probably everyone who's listening is like, I'm somehow getting it. Like, yeah, it's in my company structure as well, or it's in my surrounding as well.
00:25:48
Speaker
And the excellent part comes into take that damn
Embracing Risks for Progress
00:25:52
Speaker
decision. Don't think about it. It will take you so much more time and the information that you will get is not worth the time waiting. Just take that decision. Yeah. And you're mentioning very in a very right way. I mean, how long has it taken for our institutions, space institutions around the world?
00:26:08
Speaker
you know, to launch more things, like more rockets and so on, versus these private companies that are trying to do commercial flight, like space flight. So, of course, once you take the leap, then, you know, things start to happen. So, well, just to comment here, I did read this book, what's it called, like a mission, flight mission. I will remember the name.
00:26:37
Speaker
That speaks about all the investment that was made in NASA and all the trial and error that that happened like that happening there but all the things that were learned and all the products and tech that was just like developing after the huge investment that the public side had to make just to bring a man in the moon you know
00:27:01
Speaker
So it created a lot of spillovers into other like industries that today like we have, for example, vacuum cleaners and so on. So there's a lot of technology that derived from that investment, you know, into a risky endeavor. So I agree with you. It says you just have to take the leap and you put it in a very nice way. So perfection, what you mean by perfection is like hesitation. So yes.
00:27:28
Speaker
And I agree. It's where you want to have, you don't feel comfortable. And you want to be secure. And you're afraid. And if you're afraid, you're holding back and you don't hold yourself accountable. And then you start pointing fingers if something else goes wrong, or it doesn't go fast enough, because it's always someone else's fault. And you're not, you're not very prone to what I would say is self leadership.
00:27:55
Speaker
You're not a good leader if you behave in a perfect way. So stop it. Whoever's listening, just stop it. Yeah, I agree. So then nice that you said that because then I can ask you like, why are mistakes so important? Why do we need them then? Because you freaking learn. Gosh, if we hadn't tried to walk, we would still be crawling, right? It's that picture.
00:28:21
Speaker
Babies are great. They realize they can do something else and they just try it and try it and try it and it's frustrating until they can finally do it and what a moment it is. And it's inert to them. They want to do that. And then comes, I don't know, a life
00:28:41
Speaker
a life moment for all of us between the age of 15 and 37, where we lose this instinct of trying new things because it's like, ah, what if it does go wrong? Oh my God, yeah, what if it does go right? How come we don't have that? How come we are in, again, in first world countries with our first world problems and the only thing we can think about, ah, what if it does go wrong?
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, we have everything, everything in our hands to think exactly the opposite. What if it does go right? Right. So it's important to make mistakes. And then again, what is a mistake? So I'm a physicist, right? I need to finish. So is this is it a mistake if I do if I do something that doesn't work out twice? Is it already a mistake if I if I do it once?
00:29:31
Speaker
Sometimes that's a learning curve, right? But you need to do it. How else will you learn? I mean, you can watch other people make mistakes, but then you want them to make the mistake. So you're much faster if you make your own.
00:29:43
Speaker
because it's you with your own talent instead of just watching others. We give, for example, just as a thought. So right now, astronaut training is still in the two and a half, three year timeframe before someone can fly to the ISS right now between the five agencies that we have that deal with ISS, America, Russia, Canada, Japan, and Europe as ESA.
00:30:07
Speaker
We have our astronauts and cosmonauts for an entire three years with us. And it's not about just also teaching them all the systems and experiments and the spacecrafts and languages, all of that. It's also that we have them in front of us. And I can tell them, just do it yourself. We'll just watch you.
00:30:30
Speaker
I want them to make mistakes because I want them to make the mistake here and not up there because again, spoiler alert, I won't go with them, right? They're not taking me in their luggage. So better to make that mistake down here and I can still help them instead of having the trouble for them to make a mistake on board and then it takes forever to fix it or something like that. So it's also making mistake is also a very good way of saving time. Yeah.
00:30:56
Speaker
But eventually you have to send them. It's also part of astral train. You have to send them. Like they might still not be perfect. And again, it's not about being perfect, but they can handle, this is the excellence part. They can handle inside of them the pressure of knowing that things will go wrong. This is now, now you're not afraid anymore.
00:31:20
Speaker
I was remembering that you were telling the story during your speech. You were telling that when you're in the training or in the selection process, you're making a lot of these IQ tests. And you said something that you saw how people broke down there just by doing a lot of these exercises for hours. And then suddenly you describe this person just watching from the other side,
00:31:50
Speaker
You know removing the name of the person like okay this is this qualify so i guess that we are so tense you know so thinking of that example and you can elaborate on that better than me but thinking of that is like we are trying to.
00:32:07
Speaker
we limit ourselves and we get so stressed with just making a mistake that we don't try. And as you say, we are hesitant. So it comes with hesitation and anger and performance and stress and meltdown, perhaps. The meltdown probably is the one that is taking you off that list and that doesn't allow one to really take the leap
00:32:31
Speaker
and become this figure. Completely. You were pointing to something that's very interesting. So I also have a behavioral psychology degree. So you have everything, all the cool stuff. All the cool stuff. I don't know, but it was fun to do it. And this is what I love now to dig into human beings, souls, right? So I'm a hobby psychologist.
00:32:56
Speaker
so and in this with this degree i wanted to fulfill my little dream to actually just rip apart that question that you asked and now everyone can follow me close your close your eyes i'm just trying to imagine what i'm trying to to frame and words now and again the language is very limited so you mentioned it so now we're in this i say perfection and i i say this is
00:33:20
Speaker
The problem with a lot of people because they're hesitant so hesitation comes because you're afraid why are you afraid of because someone else might judge you but why do you actually care that someone else is judging you. Okay if you want to have a job it's rather important that you somehow make their list right so you want to be judged in the right way but if you're out in the open field you are an interpreter.
00:33:41
Speaker
who cares there there are thousands of other companies and thousands and more thousands of opportunities like why do you care about this one oh because now this is something about human beings and our mind how it works because we are social
The Human Social Nature and Risk-taking
00:33:55
Speaker
beings so we want to belong to a group so again we hesitant because like oh but then i'm not part of the group but why do you care you're super well off without the group even now right you can sustain yourself
00:34:08
Speaker
You can earn your own money. So why are you still afraid of it? And it's a very personal experience if you really sit down and try and elaborate on that question. It's like, why are you not moving? Why are you not making that decision? What is the reason that you are afraid? And it's a very healthy moment to try and find the answer to it. Every one of us has a different one. I find that it's
00:34:37
Speaker
quite important that you find the answer. Please do sit down at home, try and try and write it down on post-its. I did the post-it thing and then I found out I lose the post-it so I got tattoos all on myself to remind me of things. Instead of asking what if it goes wrong, really go and ask yourself every single time, go and ask yourself what's the worst that can happen. And most of the times for
00:35:06
Speaker
at least that's what I'm thinking now forever who's listening is nothing really bad can happen. No one will die, hopefully. I don't know what you're all in in your in your jobs and so on, but hopefully no one will die. And hopefully not a lot of people will lose a lot of money. But even if
00:35:28
Speaker
And then what? Go on. Just open that door. Go through it and learn something. And then if it goes wrong, talk about it, for God's sake. So now you're giving tips like what to do. So a lot of our listeners are probably in the real estate or architects or developers or these managers that are making important decisions.
00:35:54
Speaker
or someone sitting in a municipality trying to bring more citizens to the city. So what would you recommend? I mean, what would you say that they need to do to make efficient decision making based on your own experience? What would you tell an astronaut, hey, lose the fear? What would you recommend our listeners to do, to let go of that?
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah, very interesting. Different fields now, because a decision on board of a space station will not have an impact on the families on ground straight away, right? Whereas if now we have managers listening or people who
00:36:40
Speaker
like really serious decisions in real estate with lots of money involved. And then there's families involved, you know, because part of the families are working for you and so on. It's a very different setup. And again, so I had to smile a bit, we say, Oh, but we have listeners who are out there and they make
00:36:56
Speaker
important decisions because we have important and serious jobs. Do we? Like, okay, I'm trying. I'm trying now with a smile on my face. I'm trying to poke all of you a little like, Oh, how serious are you? How serious are we? I mean, we can, we should all incorporate a little bit more humor in our serious business. I think this is the first the first advice I have. We do if you do work a lot, and you feel a lot of pressure, maybe not the best setup.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah, come, come and find me come and find me. We can talk more about this. I'm now I am a bit hesitant because there's no cure, right? It's not the matrix. And I cannot just give you a blue pill or red pill. And then I can say, this is your all time cure for making efficient decision. Because there are other people involved. I can from from our perspective, or being and working on a space station,
00:37:49
Speaker
none of us work right under pressure, right? So...
00:37:54
Speaker
There's some examples that I can give. The first one is, do we have someone who's ruling up there?
Leadership and Decision-making in Teams
00:38:00
Speaker
Someone with a crown on and someone who's taking all the decisions and moving forward and always that person everyone has to listen to? No, our boss and our super commander is not visible during normal operations. And I think this is something that we could all incorporate and our team's like, don't take yourself too seriously. You might be the one with the boss hat.
00:38:23
Speaker
don't show it there's no need for it there's no need for it as long as everything is working right your task is to be behind your team not in front of your team behind the team do the same job get everyone in a happy state and happy with happy i mean provide them with an environment and the tools so they can.
00:38:40
Speaker
Efficiently work, that's your job. Once someone starts getting out of hand and we have off-nominal situations on board, all of a sudden you see the hat appear. And it's not because that person with the boss hat on is the one that is most experienced or knows everything better. No, everyone could do that job. We just nominated one person so that we are far away from your topic, chaos.
00:39:06
Speaker
Right? And this is something that I would like to see incorporated in Teams right now. If there is chaos, you need to have a chaos officer or anti-chaos officer. And everyone should listen to that person. Not because he or she is the most experienced one and with the most knowledge. No, just for guidance. And then talk about it afterwards.
00:39:28
Speaker
I love that word like guidance i think that's like maybe how we should see others as well but continue what do you want whoever is here right now and you have the important important again with a smile business decisions to make what do you want out of the team.
00:39:47
Speaker
If you're just behind the money, well, great. Okay. Probably 98% of the world runs on that. I personally don't necessarily agree to that goal. But if you want your team to succeed because you have a great idea and you think it will make people smarter or think smarter or
00:40:04
Speaker
better and help the world in some way or you develop something that hasn't been there before. Great. Do everything so you empower your people to do that and empower yourself. But this is now this goes into another huge topic. Self empowerment, right? I mentioned quickly self leadership. And that's about knowing yourself, letting your team know who you are, how you act,
00:40:27
Speaker
how you want to be treated so you can perform best and you need to know this of yourself and everyone else. But now is self empowerment and empowerment of other people around you, which is like really, let other people take over control, give them something to work on and let them make their own decisions. I think this is part one of efficient decision making, let other people decide.
00:40:51
Speaker
Because they have very good brain cells as well. They're very good common sense. Yeah, I agree with that. And I mean, there's always uncertainty in decisions always. Every time you have to make a decision, you have to go through all the risks and you have to evaluate as well.
00:41:08
Speaker
That's true. But again, I'm trying to point to that picture again, that I also showed and you saw it really damaged helicopter. And it's that risk assessment is great. If that's taking too long, you're going to crash. And sometimes you have
00:41:28
Speaker
a very unique situation that allows for you to think more about options. Most of the time, I think we don't. And we're better off just going through two, three, four options and just saying, it's not going to get any better. Even the last 5%, I can only obtain them
00:41:48
Speaker
with another 80% of my energy is like, okay, stop doing it. I think this is where we waste a lot of money. We waste a lot of hardship and energy and produce lots of cortisol, which is not good for the body. So stop doing that too. I'm trying to tell people what to stop.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah. But hey, you actually touched a very soft point right now in this market situation. So we know that the banks' interest rates are going up. There's a lot of fear, at least after the war. In Europe, there has been this increase in prices, and cities are trying to save money. So they're concentrating the infrastructure and resources in certain areas. And then also, of course,
00:42:35
Speaker
real estate is very, very cautious right now. You're saying that risk assessment is great. If it takes too long, you're going to crash. I love that because what's happening today in the market is that everybody's very still to
00:42:52
Speaker
Because they are assessing the risk exactly everybody still nothing is moving the economy is just like frozen. And that is affects everyone around us so i think you're giving a very good analogy. What too much risk assessment or too much perfection also creates so if we don't do something we're going to crash.
00:43:17
Speaker
And I think that's a very scary, but you know, nice analogy to what's what's happening right now. And I want to rescue that also because you have said you're speaking a lot about teams. I love that. It's like how to build a team, how to build your astronauts team that are going to go up. And I think that's overall like what we need to perform like to have a good team.
Striving for Perfection vs. Making Decisions
00:43:42
Speaker
It's not a leader maybe or like a silent leader but guidance. So I love all of this and I think this is like you're reminding us or also the first time that I heard your speech.
00:43:55
Speaker
Maybe what I took from there, from your first speech, when you had these amazing photographs of the spacecraft and everything, you know, like from space, is that indeed when we want something, we take everything too seriously. And as you said, we are producing or we are bringing our bodies to a lot of stress, not only
00:44:18
Speaker
like maybe emotionally, but mentally as well. So we are straining ourselves and then we leave ourselves unable to take decisions when we let that happen. Completely, yes. And I'm not free of it. I mean, I'm not over this perfection side at all. Again, I'm German. I'm trying to work against it every day.
00:44:42
Speaker
It's what I can recommend is because that helps the thought, okay, the reason why we can do that. And it doesn't matter what now, again, if it's real estate, or me being a keynote speaker, or you doing your job in tech, right, and trying to make cities better. So this, the reason why we can put ourselves in the stress is because we have a lot to lose. If we have nothing to lose, yeah,
00:45:08
Speaker
What would be the problem? We would just go left or right. What doesn't matter? If we're at the point where we say, it doesn't matter, just move.
00:45:17
Speaker
there's the decision becomes a bit clearer, right? Because we don't have anything to lose. So right now, a lot of people have lots of things to lose we have, but from personal perspective, no, again, listeners, your part again, like, it's you and your personal situation, you might have a house that you have down payments on, you might have relationships that are in that house, or
00:45:41
Speaker
outside of that house and then you have cars and you have a company or you have that thing that you would like to do but then you don't really know and something that you just bought or acquired or something that you own and you're afraid to lose and lots of times it's about the money we have and the standard of living we have and the dreams we have for us and for families and for children that are in our vicinity.
00:46:09
Speaker
And we don't want to lose it, so we're freezing. So we act like water right now that is being cooled down. And in physics, it's a very interesting state, but it's a very boring state as well, because you can't really do much of it. Plus in water, again, it takes on more and more space. So while you're freezing and not moving, you're taking up space.
00:46:36
Speaker
Right? Because you have more volume. You're expanding. Yeah. So you're taking up that space and you're not free at all anymore. So my small, very humble advice is because we have so many options. And we might have very young listeners also who want to, you know, do a master's degree or whoever has been working right now wanted to do another master's degree. And right now you have the option of 1348 different masters that you can do online in this world. Oh my God.
00:47:06
Speaker
how should we decide and then you're like with staring eyes in front of all these options have three options take the top three look at them maybe sleep once and then decide.
00:47:19
Speaker
Right? So only have three options. This is limit yourself to three options, no matter what you do. It's not just an arbitrary number, but it's what your brain can handle under stressful situations. Three digits. Our brain is very rudimentary when it comes to stress. So just take those three options and then decide. And if no one is moving, I mean, it's very, I'm not in real estate.
00:47:44
Speaker
I'm not in your part of that world, right? To understand anything of it. But if nothing flows anymore, it doesn't matter if it's rivers or atoms, again, if it's water, anything in the physics world, if something stops moving, it's lifeless. And it's bound for destruction. So maybe right now, whoever can, or might see a small way of
00:48:15
Speaker
doing something against that movement right now, go and do it for the sake of everyone else. That's a very, very good advice for our listeners. Go and do it for the sake of everyone else. I'm conscious about the time now. I could be listening here a lot of these philosophical and physics and space talk.
00:48:44
Speaker
But I try to summarize what you have been saying, because there are some very interesting points here. So we were discussing about the characteristics of an astronaut. And you mentioned that, well, they're comfortable being with people or not. They're curious, and they're reliable.
00:49:06
Speaker
and reliable to everyone around them and these are and themselves yeah and themselves yes that's true and so these three characteristics like help you you know go forward and be part of this like journey of really being an astronaut and and the most important thing about that was you said that perfection doesn't get you to orbit
00:49:30
Speaker
And for you, perfection, you describe that as a hesitation. So when we hesitate, we are looking for perfection. You also mentioned that risk assessment is great, but if it takes too long, you're going to crash.
00:49:48
Speaker
So what I'm listening for from all your talk is that in order to perform in an environment of uncertainty and with high risk, you need to let go.
Traits for High-risk Situations
00:50:00
Speaker
And you need to be curious, you need to be reliable, and you need to take decisions.
00:50:06
Speaker
So I think that's a very very important message like in general like for an entrepreneur. If we are in real estate and we want to make better investments for personal growth in your relationships or like if you want to become an astronaut. And now I will ask you a final question that we ask all of our guests if there were no limits.
00:50:30
Speaker
What kind of technological innovation would you invent to make your life easier in the city? Now you come with this like rocket science. Okay, now my first thought is, I'm sorry, I'm very science fiction right now. But if there is no limit, because you just took them away from me, if there were no limits, I want to have something that really can do telepathy.
00:50:57
Speaker
telepathy. Something, yes, because it's about language is so limited and people anyways don't speak enough. Yeah. And
00:51:09
Speaker
Okay, now everyone's going like, no, I don't want anyone to know what I'm thinking. It's not that, but now bear with me for just that moment. Think you could tune telepathy to if you don't have the words, if you're shy, if you don't want to talk about something or to someone, if there was that tool or that thing that could help you convey a message.
00:51:31
Speaker
or you could convey a feeling that you have an emotion and I would want that because sometimes you're also overwhelmed and you don't want that so we were talking when we first met just little you know let's go back into where we actually met we were very quickly talking about okay
00:51:50
Speaker
that I think we should all go back into social living situation. Lots of people live alone. We have single apartments and everyone will die of depression in the future. Like, wow, this is horrible. And I like my space and time that I have with myself, but I lived with roommates and I think that was great. And now on the space station, we have a big roommate party above Earth's surface every day.
00:52:19
Speaker
It's hard but it gives so much but sometimes it's people are much they can take energy but give you energy and if we had a tool that could give us telepathy. You know you could have people understand faster and more efficiently.
00:52:38
Speaker
what you really need. Yeah, living in a community. And whatever that need is right now. No, I know everyone's spine is like, what is really need? Okay, what could that be? It's like, no, no, just just imagine sometimes you just cannot convey a message. And there was some way that you touch someone or look at someone. And that person that is walking up the staircase with you into your apartment, when you're going into your single apartment, and the other one too, can just understand like,
00:53:07
Speaker
Cool. Okay. Fine. I don't know. I'm being science fiction right now. If someone hasn't an answer to that, then please. But that's great. I think you're connecting like incredibly like fabulous like to our two last episodes where they were speaking about communities and you just describe, you're a physicist and you're just describing what we are all about. Like cities are about people. So thank you very much. Yes.
00:53:34
Speaker
Thank you. I really enjoyed our conversation about it. And it was very heart lifting to see that we are completely in two opposite worlds, but we can find things that are internally related. Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to also
00:53:49
Speaker
get into people's brains when they come and they listen to me or they invite me as a speaker. It's like, yes, I come with these pictures with people again with suits and helmets. And it's great. And wow, spacecraft's shiny. It's people. It's not superheroes. We're talking about people who have the same needs and thoughts. And we are all social beings. And it's for me not understandable how
00:54:19
Speaker
And now it's again, it doesn't matter whether it's how we build cities or how we build space stations, how we cannot consider this fact, because we are depriving our soul of our social identity here.
00:54:33
Speaker
You do it your way in your world. And I'm trying to do it in my world. And hey, by the way, if we have architects and real estate people, by the way, commercial spaceflight is
Social Connections for Astronauts and Urban Living
00:54:42
Speaker
coming in one day in the moon. We are ready to demand cities there. It has a hub. And please build space stations and hubs in outer space with a social idea in mind. Because now we can think back. Now I'm doing the framing to link back to the very first question you had. What's the worst thing that can happen?
00:55:03
Speaker
We're sending people to space and I think the worst thing that can happen apart from blowing up rockets, don't get me wrong, is that you are far away from home. You cannot go home and you're not fine with friends and family. So it's social connection. And then it doesn't matter if it's a space station or a house or the moon, living quarters. It's about
00:55:28
Speaker
How well can you connect to the people that you need to do well? This is lovely. Thank you for ending like that. I wouldn't expect that an astronaut discussion would end up in connecting with people. But thank you very much for this. I think you're giving the essence of cities and of what human beings are. So thank you again, Laura, for coming. Thank you again.
00:55:55
Speaker
Just one little last thought. It's very nice that you said I'm like an astronaut. I'm not right. So just to predict just because someone else hasn't said so. But we all are. So no matter where you are right now listening to this, we're on that lump of soil with a magnetic field, boosting our way through space every single day. So please do consider your life like a playground. We are very fortunate. Yeah.