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Lindsay Prendergast Talks About Trust
125 Plays2 years ago
Lindsay Prendergast currently supports leaders in one of the largest districts in the US as an embedded leadership coach for NWEA. Lindsay has served as a principal, counselor and Special Ed teacher over the last two decades, is a Framework Specialist for The Danielson Group and also an ASCD Emerging Leader. She believes in the power of teachers to transform lives and the crucial importance of leaders to create the environment for them to do so.
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/lindspren
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-prendergast-231734148/
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Learner Centered Spaces podcast, where we empower and inspire ownership of learning, sponsored by Mastery Portfolio. And I'm one of your hosts, Star Saxton. I'm another host, Emma Chapeta. And I'm Crystal Frommert. In each episode, we will bring you engaging conversations with a wide variety of educators, both in and out of the classroom.
00:00:30
Speaker
This podcast is created for educators who want to learn more about how to make the shift toward learner-centered spaces for their students, schools, and districts, or education at large. So get ready to be inspired as we dive right into the conversation with today's guests.
Guest Introduction: Lindsay Prendergast
00:00:54
Speaker
Today's episode features Lindsay Prendergast. She currently supports leaders in one of the largest districts in the US and is an embedded leadership coach for NWEA. Lindsay has served as a principal, counselor, and special ed teacher over the last two decades.
Empowerment and Leadership in Education
00:01:10
Speaker
She is a framework specialist for the Danielson Group and also an ASCD Emerging Leader. She believes in the power of teachers to transform lives and the crucial importance of leaders to create the environment for them to do so. Please welcome Lindsay on today's episode. Good morning, Lindsay. I'm so excited to have you on with us this morning. If you could start by telling us a little bit about yourself, your role, your location,
00:01:39
Speaker
some of your journey if you want or an interesting fact we'd love to hear. Thanks, Star. It's so great to be here with you as well. This is truly an honor to be invited and my name is Lindsay Prendergast and I currently live in Las Vegas, Nevada and I spend my days coaching school leaders so in various areas particularly focused around instructional leadership but
00:02:01
Speaker
Roughly 18 years ago I started my career really not knowing what I wanted to do with my adult life, if you will, but I began as a special education teacher and just fell in love with education and being able to work with students.
Universality of Learner-Centered Practices
00:02:15
Speaker
And then I'll tell people that I went to the dark side because a few years later I did pursue the degree and the pathway into administration where I felt like I might have an opportunity to have a greater influence
00:02:26
Speaker
on the long-term trajectory for students. So I've been an assistant principal. I was also a guidance counselor while being an administrator, so that's played a really interesting role in that duality of approaches to leadership, became a principal of an international school. So I've lived in several countries, and that piece I say is
00:02:46
Speaker
kind of the unique aspect of my education career because it taught me really that it does not matter the language, it does not matter the location, it does not matter the culture. The things that I hope to talk about today, these student-centered practices, particularly around assessment, are applicable in pretty much any language or education system. So thanks for having me today. I'm excited.
00:03:08
Speaker
Yeah, we're so excited to have you and thanks for sharing a bit about yourself. And I think we all are really curious about how these learner centered practices do translate across cultures and
Creating Learner-Centered Environments
00:03:20
Speaker
language. So to start, could you just tell us what a learner centered space looks like, feels like, sounds like to you? Definitely. And I think, you know, this is an area that I've developed my understanding of over time because I've seen examples
00:03:36
Speaker
of what a learner-centered space does not look like. And I don't say that to say that, you know, teachers are out there trying not to create learner-centered spaces. I think we've inherited a lot of beliefs and paradigms in education around the way things should be done, and we repeat those. So as I was a classroom teacher with my special education students and then later in working with teachers as an administrator,
00:04:02
Speaker
of seeing examples of just magic in classrooms, where student voices, you hear them, you watch them interacting with one another, you watch them interacting with their teacher, they're demonstrating that they are really co-contributors to that learning community.
00:04:20
Speaker
they're able to and willing to take risks. And that is not something that they necessarily, that doesn't necessarily come out in a contrived manner. That comes out as a manner of intentional decisions and actions by the teacher in the classroom who really creates that learning culture so that students feel that they are at the center of that space. So I'll also speak to that, that teacher language, the choices they make in their words,
00:04:48
Speaker
to create a student-centered space, they're intentionally affirming student identities, for example. They're letting students know that they recognize they don't know everything there is to know about their background and culture, but they're super curious to find out. And that creates a space where students feel valued, they feel seen, they feel heard. And even myself, as just an adult, I feel that in an environment like that, I'm more willing to participate in the learning cultures. And students see that, they feel that.
00:05:16
Speaker
When I observe classrooms, that is a piece where I know it's student centered when that's fostered by high expectations. I heard a quote probably sometime this past year that I just fell in love with that high expectations are an act of love. So as we think about classroom settings where not only are students identities affirmed,
00:05:37
Speaker
but that teachers conveying to the students that they believe in them and they believe that they can achieve and accomplish just about anything. That in itself is also a student centered learning
Purpose of Assessments
00:05:47
Speaker
space to me. So then you think about the things the students are doing in the classroom. We may be at risk for simply saying, you know, let's turn to page 82 because it's Tuesday and a particular curriculum resource and teachers feel very restrained by the structure and the systems that they're put into.
00:06:06
Speaker
But they can make decisions to create that student-centered learning space by finding resources that, again, affirm students' identities. They can show students that they're willing to accept and reflect on the fact that they don't know everything. And it's just kind of a smattering, really, of practices and language and choices that teachers make, that if I were to walk in a classroom, I would be able to see evidence that those students
00:06:33
Speaker
They feel valued, they feel seen, they feel heard, and that that learning space really is about them and their futures. I love that. And we hear a lot of this sense of trust in what you've said, like not only building trust between the students and the teacher, but the teacher also putting trust in the students. And I think that that's a huge part of the co-contributing that you've shared. So thank you so much for that.
00:06:59
Speaker
I love that you called that out because that is fundamental. You're absolutely right. I love that answer. And this is Crystal here. And what I'm curious about, we talk a lot in this podcast about assessment and what that looks like in a student-centered space. And I'm curious what that looks like to you as far as formative and summative assessment in such a classroom environment that you're describing. Sure.
00:07:28
Speaker
So assessment is something I think I could spend the rest of my life learning how to be better at assessment and helping others to be better at assessment.
00:07:38
Speaker
And part of that really is rooted again in a long history of the way that we've done things to students, I would say, when it comes to assessment and that manner of entrenched practices that assessment was meant to sort and rank students. So having to unpack that, I've learned a lot, a great deal really by starting with asking the students. I think that's one of the first and easiest steps educators can take when they want to make a shift towards more student centered learning spaces.
00:08:09
Speaker
And in doing so, I have found myself in a space with students, whether as a classroom teacher or even as a leader, in partnering with them. So when I think about assessment,
00:08:21
Speaker
as a person who would be being assessed or if I'm the one doing the assessment, it's a piece that is for them. It is for their moving forward, for their journey, as opposed to some of the practices that we would consider kind of very traditional that kind of close the door and say, this is defining who you are, this is defining what you are and where you are, and there's nothing that can be done. I think we have to think about those assessment practices in my mind that are almost
00:08:48
Speaker
always formative, even in the sense of a summative assessment and say we might consider that to be a piece that's at the end of a unit of instruction or the end of a term of instruction. The student's not stopping their learning just because 10th grade is ending or just because 5th grade is ending. It should be a doorway that still is setting the stage for this is the culmination of this period of time that you have been learning in these areas
00:09:17
Speaker
And now you're setting the stage for moving into the next phase of that learning.
Involving Students in Assessments
00:09:21
Speaker
So when we think about the language that we use around assessment for students, I think that has a tremendous amount of influence in what we convey that it is not finite. It is not closing doors. It's a step in the journey so that students themselves can continue to grow, can continue to adapt, find out what they are excelling in and find out their strengths.
00:09:45
Speaker
Find out areas that they still need to continue to work. So it's an exchange of information. So it may sound a little bit simplistic, but I really do believe that language and the way that we communicate with students about assessment is one of those kind of more approachable area and first steps to take to undoing some of those entrenched behaviors that we have around assessment, if you will. When I think about assessment design too,
00:10:12
Speaker
That's another area where teachers may not be likely to understand it. It's perfectly okay, if not an outstanding practice to co-create assessments with students. When we're talking about a learning journey, we're talking about creating an environment where students understand the purpose of what they're learning. They learn the intentions that they're trying to achieve. So when we're setting the stage for that assessment,
00:10:39
Speaker
what is that we're exactly going to be trying to measure and that we're setting students up for success and then we're conveying to them what is that journey along the way towards that assessment that may be in that case considered to be a summative. So plenty of opportunities every day to invite students into that conversation themselves and again, make them part of that partnership in their own learning journey and that they're themselves empowered to see that as an opportunity, not as a door closing, as I've said a few times.
00:11:10
Speaker
I love that.
Educator Advice for Learner-Centered Spaces
00:11:11
Speaker
And you have this theme, like Emma mentioned of trust in partnership and all of your answers. And I think we could probably have a four hour podcast on just trust in partnership. Um, so thank you so much for that thoughtful answer. Okay. So.
00:11:34
Speaker
I, Lindsay, you and I, we talk all the time about this stuff and I love how committed you are to supporting leaders who are trying to lead this work. It's hard for classroom teachers, but they need the direction from
00:11:49
Speaker
other folks and the support. So I love that you bring that to the conversations that you have with folks. And to that end, we would love to know what advice or tips would you give to someone who wants to create a more learner centered space that encompasses the things that you've talked about? Sure. And Star, I'm so just grateful to for your trust in me to be a part of this podcast, because there is
00:12:16
Speaker
such a need for empowering educators and getting ideas out there to them. And I love what you do in that space. So thinking about day-to-day encounters with leaders, I will say my first and most important piece of advice is don't give up hope. It's that, and that seems so simplistic, but it's a journey in which if you are focused on creating more student-centered spaces, more learner-centered spaces,
00:12:45
Speaker
you're likely to encounter a lot of opposition, not because people are malicious or of malintent, but because so much of this is rooted in our really entrenched beliefs about the purpose of education. So we're fighting against belief systems, essentially. And so when we're thinking about changing people's ways of understanding how education can and could be done for students, it's a long journey.
Student Perspectives and Educational Change
00:13:12
Speaker
It's one conversation at a time.
00:13:15
Speaker
But you have to begin really understanding your conviction, your beliefs, and your purpose in this so that you can withstand those questions or those challenges or those difficult conversations when people will say, well, it's too hard, or that's not fair, or I just can't, that takes too much time. This is an approach in a sense that a leader needs to be able to take with
00:13:42
Speaker
the stakeholders in their community. Teachers themselves want to do better by kids. I will never stop believing that. There's systems and structures that are set up that make it more difficult, so they may tell you they can't do it, and they may be afraid, and they may not understand how, and they may be very uncertain about it. So you need to be confident in your conviction and your understanding of how to make that work for them. You need to be informed. Similarly, when you're approaching, say for instance, caregivers of students,
00:14:13
Speaker
you need to be able to face all of those questions, if you will, that they're going to throw at you. And then when it comes down to the other side of that piece, when you're thinking about a journey towards creating more learner-centered spaces for students, that's, I will almost say, the easier part, and certainly the more fun part, who doesn't want to interact with students. But the most I've ever learned about assessments is when I ask the students themselves,
00:14:41
Speaker
So if you're sitting in a scenario where you're thinking, I want to move this journey forward, whether you're a classroom teacher, whether you're a leader, you're imagining in your head, you're kind of making assumptions, maybe you're making up stories a little bit about these things, the ways it should be done, the ways it could be done, the ways I want it done, don't ever miss the opportunity to speak to the students themselves because they are going to blow your mind with what they already inherently know and believe about education and what they inherently already know and understand about themselves and their needs.
00:15:12
Speaker
And that can just empower your journey so much quicker and so much easier to really, again, make that truly and authentically student learners, or excuse me, learner centered space. I so appreciate the focus on putting the kids in charge. And really, when you think about adult mindsets, the kids really are be easier ones to work with, even though these are tough paradigms to kind of navigate.
00:15:41
Speaker
I think that getting to have those really difficult conversations with the folks who are struggling is the hard part. So since I know you do work with leaders, how do you counsel them about these difficult conversations so that the practices continue to move forward? Oh, that's a great question. Because it's one of my favorite things to do. It's almost in those conversations where maybe a leader is really
00:16:10
Speaker
just downtrodden and frustrated or believes that they cannot move this forward. If you start bringing them back to their roots of why they are in education, it's like the light bulb goes on, this aha moment. They can recognize that they are practicing things that are a result of what they've been trained to do as kind of a system of compliance, where it's about work completion.
00:16:39
Speaker
But every educator I've never encountered an educator who didn't tell me that the purpose of their work was the students and their learning. And when you remind them that that's their their intent and then you compare you kind of hold the mirror up right to how is this practice.
00:16:54
Speaker
than going to actually move student learning forward. It's not a perfect equation, I will say that, but it often, just this look of surprise on their face, wow, oh, okay, right? They start to see and they start to understand. Now, empowering them to then go out themselves is an ongoing process where they, again, they need to be equipped with the knowledge
00:17:17
Speaker
the understanding of the distinction in the different types of practices out there, the value that they can have, they need to do their research. They really need to completely understand that instructional leadership side to say, it's not just something I think I want to do. It's not just something I've heard is good for kids. I know why it's good for kids and I know how it can be done.
00:17:42
Speaker
because you need to get in and rub elbows and roll up your sleeves and do the dirty work, so to speak, do the change work with the teachers in your building or with the school board themselves or with the parents. And as people start to see through that change cycle, the value and the difference in the learning journeys of the students, they then themselves start to see the evidence of it. And it does take time, I will say.
00:18:08
Speaker
they're
Resources and Further Engagement
00:18:09
Speaker
more likely to be bringing other, bringing other stakeholders along with them. So that's an encompassing and very substantial topic in a short amount of time, but those are some suggestions.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's perfect. Thank you. And I am so appreciative that you have brought it back to the students. They are definitely our most important resource for learning how to make things student centered. But you did mention that leaders should do their research. So I'd like to give you an opportunity to shout out some people in this space that we can read about if we want to learn more.
00:18:44
Speaker
Absolutely. And that's what I enjoy doing. And I'll say, first and foremost, star herself, star Saxton. So I have learned a tremendous amount about assessment practices through her. But no, there's no shortage of other of other educators out there doing this work. And those who we would say our names that we're very familiar with in the research field are Matt Townsley, certainly Ken O'Connor, and Tom Guskey, of course, Dr. Guskey.
00:19:12
Speaker
These are writers that are out there doing the research. It's readily available for evidence-based pieces that you can use to support your journey. But then on the day-to-day, there's educators that may not have the name, so to speak. But if you find them on social media, if you find their books, if you find them on podcasts, you will sit in awe of the opportunity to learn from them and hear the ways that they are putting this into practice in classrooms. And some of those folks
00:19:41
Speaker
Abby French is very active on Twitter, for instance, and she's out speaking about student centered learning spaces. Kenny McKee is a coach and works with educators directly. Brooke Mabry works with leaders directly and is very active in that space and supporting student centered learning spaces. Dr. Aaron Beard is actually a designer for an assessment company.
00:20:07
Speaker
where she's working to build support for educators, particularly in the area of responsive learning. And then Dr. Anne-Marie Luce is an expert in the areas where we're focusing all of this work and centered in kind of an equity-based approach as well to education. So there's no shortage. I could go on and on, but this is a kind of a collection of people that I look to and that I learned from on a regular basis.
00:20:32
Speaker
Well, Lindsay, speaking of learning from, I know our listeners definitely will want to learn more from you. Where would we find you on social media or connect with you online to learn more about what you do? Sure. Yeah, thank you. I love connecting with other, with educators and interested folks on this topic. I'm active on Twitter and my handle is just atlindspren and you can search for my name.
00:20:56
Speaker
And then also primarily on Twitter and LinkedIn, I would say there'd be the two most common avenues there where you might find me sharing. I have published a variety of articles, but they're in so many different publications. So, you know, if you happen to look up my name, you might find some of those out there in the world, but those two are the most common spaces. Send me a message. I certainly always enjoy just meeting other educators that are pushing this kind of ideas forward as well. So thanks for that opportunity.
00:21:25
Speaker
Well, thank you so much. This has been an incredible conversation that we've had. I know we could probably talk a lot more. And I hope our listeners do connect with you and read your work and follow what you do. So thank you so much for your time today. It was truly my pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for getting up early for us, Lyns. Absolutely. All right. Thank you.
00:21:56
Speaker
Thank you for learning with us today. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. If you'd like any additional information from the show, check out the show notes. Learn more about Mastery Portfolio and how we support schools at masteryportfolio.com. You can follow us on Twitter at masteryforall and on LinkedIn on our Mastery Portfolio page.
00:22:18
Speaker
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