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Is Glam Metal just Hard Rock in disguise?
25 Plays1 year ago
In a new Metal Debate, Daria & Laz look into the intricacies and specifics of Glam Metal and what it constitutes - comparing it with Hard Rock and debating the similarities and differences using Skid Row’s debut album (‘Skid Row’ 1989) as a reference!
You can also watch us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7mfJVCp_TzbPNZNMMemJuw
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Transcript
Introduction to Minds of Metal
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Minds of Metal. My name is Daria. And I'm Laz. And together we're a husband and wife team, both pro musicians, taught them all things heavy metal.
Glam Metal vs. Hard Rock: Episode Introduction
00:00:16
Speaker
And today we're bringing you a new episode of The Metal Debate.
Similarities and Differences: Skid Row's Debut Album
00:00:21
Speaker
That's right. Today we're going to take a look at two genres in music or one sub genre called glam metal and hard rock. Because over the weekend we were sort of doing a lot of research and doing some listening on glam metal. And we listened to a few albums and we thought actually
00:00:34
Speaker
This really doesn't sound much different to what other bad people would consider hard rock bands, especially during the 80s. So we thought, why not look and compare and see if we can identify what's different about them. And to do this, we're going to be using a reference album, which we thought was a great example of an album that actually has both qualities of hard rock and glam metal.
Origins of Hard Rock and Glam Metal
00:00:53
Speaker
And that is going to be Skid Row's debut album, Skid Row, from 1989. But before we get into that, let's give you a very quick history in these two genres.
00:01:04
Speaker
So let's begin with Hard Rock, okay? So it began in mid-60s with the garage and psychedelic sort of rock influences and lots of blues. We can definitely say that Hard Rock is heavily blues-based. And the early bands that you will definitely all know are the Kinks, the Ho, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and the later bands would be Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and Jeff Beck.
Evolution and Popularity of Glam Metal
00:01:32
Speaker
So as for the quick history of glam metal, it goes a lot deeper than this, but just some key points. In the mid 70s, you've got David Bowie and Mark Bowen from T-Rex really dressing up and glamming themselves up.
00:01:43
Speaker
along with their music, they were kind of pioneering the glam rock movement during the 70s. And towards the end of the 70s, you've got Van Halen who released their debut album Van Halen in 1978, which really was a stepping stone to get from this rock music into a sort of heavier version of pop metal, which was also known as glam. Now, when Van Halen did that,
00:02:06
Speaker
This inspired a bunch of other bands to kind of make pop metal, but also dress up and make the visuals much more interesting and appealing to the wider audiences. In 1982, Motley Crue signed with a record label and from that moment on, Glam Metal kick-started. You had bands from all over the world coming and taking interest and coming to LA and also trying to become a part of this Glam Metal scene.
Sound and Style: Glam Metal vs. Hard Rock
00:02:28
Speaker
You had lots of new bands popping up everywhere, but on top of that, older bands such as Whitesnake and Death Leopard were making
00:02:38
Speaker
When we hear the term hard rock, that's a very, very big umbrella of music, isn't it? Because there are a lot of bands sounding very similar and very different that could be considered hard rock. Whereas with glam metal, I think overall it has a similar sound, doesn't it? If you were to say, play, you know, finally a glam metal band.
00:02:55
Speaker
Any bands you put into that category would, I think, sound quite similar to each other, even though there would be differences. Whereas with Hard Rock, it encompasses a much larger variety of bands.
Traits of Hard Rock vs. Heavy Metal
00:03:06
Speaker
What do you think, when you think of Hard Rock musically? Bon Jovi. Yeah. ACDC some stuff. Mother of art, Deep Purple are the first name to come to me because they were that early, sort of pushing on that heavier version of rock that we were getting from the end of the sixties.
00:03:24
Speaker
Music, musical traits, what do you feel when you hear hard rock? What is it you're expecting to hear? I'm expecting to hear anthemic choruses that I want to sing along to. It's usually a very sort of, not basic, but quite a simple groove that you can really follow along. And it's not as heavy as metal for me.
00:03:52
Speaker
And I know that some songs like by ACDC are considered heavy metal.
00:03:58
Speaker
But yeah, we're not going into that. Another bit. So it's just, like you said, it's such a broad genre, really. That like we said, the Kings are the early hard rock. And then we've got Led Zepp, which is later hard rock. And then you have so many other bands. Yeah. And then from that, you get the manifestations of hard rock. Like you said, the Bonjour and these ACD's. Exactly. And it's like,
00:04:22
Speaker
It's so hard really because the genre evolves all the time and there are things that go sort of out of fashion per se, you know, musically and then the other things that we start to consider other things hard wrong.
00:04:37
Speaker
So it's really tricky, and this is why I think Glam Metal and Hard Rock, in my opinion, are so hand in
Glam Metal's Catchy Sound and Visual Appeal
00:04:45
Speaker
hand. Yeah. So when I think of Hard Rock, I kind of boil it down to its base, and I think distorted guitars, a heavier drum sound, some form of vocals, mainly I'd say aggressive. Now this can be either singing or shouting. I kind of think of Ian Gillan, because you think of the song Highway Star. He's like, no, no, no, no. But in the same album, he screams.
00:05:06
Speaker
See, I think it's metal song. What, Hylie Star? Yeah. Yeah, I consider it a hard rock song. You know, it's just so, like, tricky. But then heavy metal doesn't normally have keyboards, which is where I think this is where this comes in. But, okay, we've established a hard rock. It's very hard to quantify and put into one box because it's such a wide genre. One thing that's going to be easier is doing the same for glam metal.
00:05:33
Speaker
because glam metal, as we said, is smaller, is more niche, is more refined. What do you think musically when you hear the term glam metal? It's not just music for me. First thing,
00:05:44
Speaker
that I picture in my head when you say glam metal is the outfits, the fashion of it. Yeah, and the hair. Huge thing. That's a huge point because hard rock bands and glam metal bands don't look the same. No, absolutely not. But musically, you know, to me hard rock is choruses that I can remember and glam metal is choruses you can remember and sing along to. So to me, this is like a trait that's
00:06:13
Speaker
that both these genres have. And you said synthetic choruses before. Yes, very glammentally, of course. But then it's more melodic, I think, glam metal. Yeah, there is a... See, glam metal is also known as hair metal or pop metal. And the reason for this is because during its height, the height of its success in the mid-80s is glam metal started making appearances on MTV and they were pushing out this glam metal to the world. It was in every living room.
00:06:42
Speaker
So they had to look good.
Themes in Lyrics: Youth vs. Broader Themes
00:06:44
Speaker
It had to be visually appealing to audiences, especially in the 80s. Anyone who was around in the 80s, you remember what the fashion was like back then. I don't, you know, we don't, but we thought it was quite extravagant. And because of this, you need easier music. Think pop music, three minutes. Yeah, three to four minute songs. Even the inclusion of guitar solos in glam metal was quite obviously unusual because it follows the style of metal in general.
00:07:08
Speaker
Audiences weren't used to hearing solos on the radios back then. Sometimes, you know, if you feel like the Beatles in the 60s, they'd have a little eight bar solo section. But to hear an all-out guitar solo on a track, you know, we've got to thank the likes of Eddie Van Halen for that. Also, you know, I was just thinking when you were talking about the songs and stuff, I thought that lyrically, glam metal
00:07:37
Speaker
is a lot about like relationships and girls. I think, yeah, you're right. I think it's, it has a, I don't want to say immaturity, but a celebration of youth, a celebration of youth. There's high schools driving your cars, being with your girlfriend, doing the drugs, drinking all night, everything like that.
00:07:58
Speaker
It is this celebration of youth and what you can get away with and how we fight the system. We're not just going to be a normal set of teenagers who go and do their studies, you know, we're going to push the boundaries. And that's quite important as well, because Hard Rock lyrically can be about anything.
Skid Row's Melody and Commercial Success
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah. Because obviously it is a broad genre. But it also can be about love in that spectrum. Hard Rock or Glam Metal. Hard Rock. Yes. You have love songs in Hard Rock, you know. You do, yes. And the version we have of love songs in Glam Metal,
00:08:26
Speaker
would be the famous power ballads. Now these were pioneered and innovated in the 80s as a way of these glam metal and glam rock bands.
00:08:38
Speaker
making their slow romantic song. Now, I think this would be a good place to go and get going to the album that we said. So we've said that the best reference, in our opinion, for this, just from our listening this weekend, would be Skid Row's debut album. Now, if you listen to the song 18 and Life, that is a power ballad because the guitars are still, it's not an acoustic song. There is one later that is acoustic. But with 18 and Life, you've got the guitars, they're going through the amps, they're still sounding heavy.
00:09:08
Speaker
effects on it you know he's screaming he's still using his vocals but it's a slower song it is it's a slower song and i mean this song isn't particularly about love i don't think i think it's about youth but power ballads were mainly there as the romantic song um the people people would come and listen to you know romance sells guys romance sells that's it um there you go should we get into the album now again this is going to be a track by track review but there's just some interesting traits in the songs that we felt
00:09:36
Speaker
either represented hard rock and glam metal. So what, are there any points now that you- Yeah, I don't think, you know what, let's not go track by track per se, but let's just say overall, my overall sort of opinion on the Skid Row's album, and I think that applies to so many glam metal songs, is that, like I said, it's melodic. It's very melodic, and you know, it's such an easy to guess melody, like where is it gonna go? When we're listening to the Skid Row album,
00:10:05
Speaker
I didn't know the songs before. I knew some, because I heard them before, but I didn't know most of them. And I could still sort of sing along, really. And I just called myself doing that. And I was like, oh, how are you singing along? You don't know this, you know? It's predictable. It is very much so. And it's like, it's easy. It's easy to listen to. And this is why it had such a big commercial success. Not for long, but there you go.
00:10:30
Speaker
well the interesting thing is that you've got the polar opposites because like you said you've got the easy melodies you've got the easy to listen to and agreeable guitar riffs what i mean by agreeable that's a word i use a lot when i'm talking about glam because
00:10:44
Speaker
Heavy metal shouldn't be agreeable. We know from Black Sabbath's first album, it should sound dark. It should sound dissonant. It shouldn't always bring pleasure to the ears. But with glam metal, the riffs often sound nice. There's nothing minor about them. There's nothing dissonant about them. They're a pleasure to listen to again because we need commercial success. But an interesting thing is that when you've got these melodies and these lovely agreeable guitar tones, on the other side, you've got intricacies in the rhythm section and in the music that I think
00:11:14
Speaker
Quite interesting. I mean, songs like Sweet Little Sister, the chugging guitar at the start and the speed that he plays it with. Even 18 and Life, there are heavy riffs and rhythms in place throughout the song. Just because it's a slow song, it doesn't mean that it has to be slow. You can't play something heavy. And I think this is where we're hearing the metal in this album. Because, you know, I've made a thing here. Rattlesnake Shape. There is a darkness and dissonance in the riff.
00:11:44
Speaker
And there are elements of this throughout the album. It reminded me of Megadeth. Megadeth's album, Rust in Peace, it's really produced like it and it has the technicality. Some of these riffs are technical to play and I think that's what's metal about this album. Well you know what, I'm gonna argue with you on this because
00:12:06
Speaker
Yes, I completely see what you were talking about, like metal traits that we can hear. It is indeed in places very heavy. And the vocals actually aren't particularly, you know, they're not aggressive, but they are shouty. They are very high pitched sort of screamy vocals. And, you know, you have raspiness and stuff like that. You do like this grunts and stuff. Yeah, yeah, there's stuff like this, but
00:12:33
Speaker
the fact that it is
Transition to Dirty Hair Metal
00:12:36
Speaker
so agreeable, like I said, that it is so easy to listen to. And the biggest thing for me is that metal has evolved as a genre so much since the 80s. And I guess what I'm hearing when I hear, you know, when I talk about metal right now is much heavier sound overall.
00:13:02
Speaker
This is why to me it will be more towards Hard Rock. And that's interesting because at the same time Skid Row's album came out, and just a quick note on Skid Row, I wouldn't say they're an out-and-out glam metal band. Towards the end of the 80s, the quick little bit of history is towards the end of the 80s,
00:13:22
Speaker
Glam Metal kind of started dying down because its popularity was waning. There were bands that were coming out and saying, well, these guys look stupid. I don't want to look like them. And then you had Dirty Hair Metal come, which is the likes of Skid Row Guns N' Roses, which is a manifestation of glam. Yeah, there you go. It's a manifestation of glam. It's like the next step. And all that really changed
00:13:41
Speaker
I think was the visuals. The music stayed sort of similar. But at the same time, Skid Row releasing this, you've got Metallica releasing And Justice For All.
Classification Debate: Glam Metal or Hard Rock?
00:13:49
Speaker
You've got Slayer releasing Seasons and the Abyss. You've got Pantera doing their early thing as well. Pantera were actually a glam metal band before, but they don't talk about that. Yes, they have the outfits and everything. It's funny. It's a dime bag dressed like that. So you're right, because after the New Wave of British Heavy Metal,
00:14:06
Speaker
which sort of was from 1979 to 1983, metal started branching out, you've got thrash, you've got progressive, you've got death, you've got glam, and that's when metal started to spread. So you're right, if you're looking down other avenues, you are hearing heavier music, you are hearing more out and out metal. This is just the most accessible and commercial side of metal that we got as a result of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Which is interesting because, you know, I've made a note here,
00:14:33
Speaker
in the song, Here I Am, he does a little thing where he goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And that really reminded me of that actual rose. And what overall, you know, he says, that's bluesy to me because it's improvisational.
00:14:50
Speaker
I didn't think of it this way, but it has to be a point. Matt Heath from Trivium sing a line and just go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yo, come on. You're like, he's never going to play around with his vocals to a casual extent, whereas they do here. Yeah, yeah. Axel did in the appetite. And so I think we're hearing a really nice hybrid here. Yeah, we do. Because how do you categorize it? What do you think Skiller's debut album is? Oh, I don't do that.
00:15:19
Speaker
Don't do that. But you might have to. Yeah, absolutely. But do you remember our first metal debate episode? Check it out. It's a really good talk actually. We were talking about what the first supposedly metal song is ever.
00:15:36
Speaker
And I said to you that I always look at songs, well usually I do, unless I have to look at it otherwise, as just the listener. You know, what am I hearing? I don't really always like to go really deep into the music theory, for example, of it.
00:15:54
Speaker
or the way it's been written or whether it's got blues notes in it or this and the other so if i was to just forget about that and just think of it as a product you know just as a song i would say it's hard rock to me but but it has metal traits yes no but you're a singer so you identify with the vocals and the lead lines more
00:16:17
Speaker
The first thing I hear is the music and in a song like Piece of Me, which is a really heavy intro, that's the first thing I hear. And to me, the vocals are a side product. So when I hear these songs, when I hear Making a Mess, when I hear Rattlesnake Shake, when I hear Piece of Me, the first thing I'm hearing is it's metal, glammed up, popped up, all the vocals come in and it's a really easy melody. Okay, that's fine. They just added that on top.
00:16:41
Speaker
I feel as a base, I still underline here metal. It is the lightest form of metal, I know. It is hugely debatable and arguable that it could be considered hard rock, but I do have to say that I still hear.
00:16:57
Speaker
heavy metal as a bass on this album. No, I get you. I do. I do. And I do look at melodies more. Obviously, of course I will. It's just instantly what you do. You're a bass player, of course. Exactly. I hear the music. Yeah. It's so interesting. Guys, we want to know what you think. Is Skid Row by Skid Row from 1989, is it a hard rock album or is it a glam metal album? And tell us why in the comments and your thoughts on it.
Listener Engagement and Call to Action
00:17:21
Speaker
And if you understand,
00:17:22
Speaker
No, I really enjoyed this discussion. I like going into just topics like this where you can definitely see both sides, actually. Yeah, and there doesn't have to be a right answer, you know, and there won't be. And let's give her a say, we went and made a glam metal album. Or a hard rock album. Or a hard rock album. Then we don't have an answer. So yeah, thank you again, guys, for joining us for one of these episodes. Highly enjoyable, as you said.
00:17:47
Speaker
And don't forget to give us a like, a share, and subscribe to our channel. Please, we have so much content for you. You have no idea. Have a little day. Have a lovely day. We'll see you very soon.