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Australia is uniquely susceptible to the woke mind virus, with Andrew Gold on Heretics
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Regular listeners may remember that last year Will interviewed the wonderful documentarian, podcaster and YouTuber Andrew Gold. Andrew recently returned the favour and invited Will onto his wildly successful YouTube show, Heretics. Will and Andrew discussed how the woke mind virus has infiltrated Australia, the parallels between the grooming gangs scandal and child sexual abuse in remote Indigenous communities, the problems of mass migration in Australia, and the corruption of Australia's educational institutions.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Read The Spectator Australia here.
Watch Heretics here.
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Transcript
Australia's Cultural Identity & 'Woke Mind Virus'
00:00:21
Speaker
Australia is uniquely susceptible to the woke mind virus. That made comes a shock to some some people. You probably need to smash a couple of cultural myths about Australia first. Australia's always been very happy with authoritarianism. Multiculturalism was portrayed as this unimpeachable good. If you look at it per capita, it is actually worse in Australia than it is in the UK. Most Australians accepted that trade-off. The multiculturalism game changes when you add Islamic immigration into the mix. This is stuff that Dawkins and Hitchens were writing bestsellers about 15 years ago. The landscape has changed and legitimate criticisms of culture basically now tar you as a racist.
Taboo Topics: Child Abuse in Indigenous Communities
00:01:03
Speaker
What does it make you feel like as an Australian with that Sydney Opera House stuff?
00:01:12
Speaker
There are significantly disproportionate volumes of child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities. And for the same reasons as Rotherham, it is taboo to talk about this because of fears of racism.
Audience Engagement Strategy
00:01:27
Speaker
And the dirty secret in Australia is that
00:01:33
Speaker
Hello fellow heretics, thanks so much for watching this content. I couldn't do it without you. I just wanted to quickly ask you to please like and subscribe. I see that only a tiny percentage of my viewers are actually subscribed to the channel. Please click subscribe because it will boost this content to the rest of the world and will also help me to continue convincing the best guests to grace the heretics stage.
Reality vs. Perception of Australian Attitudes
00:01:57
Speaker
Why is it? Okay, so British people are always going, oh, you know what? I've got to get out of this country. It's gone woke. It's gone ridiculous. Where are you going to go? I'm going to go to Australia. That's our just as far away. But is Australia actually this sort of anti-woke paradise? What's Australia like? Australia certainly isn't an anti-woke paradise. In fact, Australia is uniquely susceptible to the woke mind virus.
00:02:21
Speaker
But in order to explain that, because that made comes a shock to some some people, you probably need to smash a couple of cultural myths about Australia first. I think most Americans, in fact, most people across the West, including in the UK, still have the Crocodile Dundee image in their mind when they think of Australia. Laid back, irreverent, anti-authoritarian. And the dirty secret in Australia is that it is none of those things. And it never has been any of those things. We're not irreverent. We're the country that gave the world Hannah Gadsby.
00:02:55
Speaker
You know, we're not ah laid back, we're the second highest consumer of antidepressants per capita in the world. Wow. And we're certainly not anti-authoritarian, as you saw during COVID, it smashed that myth. In fact, ah Clive James, a great Australian wit who made his career in the UK, he knew this, he summed it up and he said,
00:03:16
Speaker
The problem with Australia is less that it is descended from convicts, that it is descended from jailers. Australia's always been very happy with authoritarianism. And the thing which, as you know, Wokism is an authoritarian ideology. And as a result of that, it's a, Australia's very susceptible to Wokism because deep down, we actually don't really have a problem with authoritarians in charge. And I think that's been an opening for Wokism. And I'd add a couple of other things into the mix, which are,
00:03:46
Speaker
uh, Australia's culture is not as strong and particularly the origin of the culture aren't as strong as the UK or the US. We don't have the revolutionary origin story like the US. We don't have the history that the UK has to draw from. And so we're susceptible to what comes from the UK and the US, s which is wokeism today. And then you add in, uh,
00:04:08
Speaker
You add in um we add in a ah few more things as well, which we can get onto, and you suddenly see that it's not a surprise that Wokism has firmly and deeply got its claws you into the Australian psyche.
Impact of Islamic Immigration on Multiculturalism
00:04:20
Speaker
It's really interesting what you say. Actually, firstly, I want to just say for those who don't know who Hannah Gadsby is, that's a sort of lesbian comedian. She was actually in a show, which was a little bit Wok that I really liked. Could Please Like Me? Do you know the show? No, I only saw the Netflix stuff.
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that but it was on Netflix, it was some sort of series. I'm pretty sure she was in that. I'll take this bit out if I'm wrong about that. But, you know, super woke, ridiculous, identitarian, um you know, the fact that I even said she's a lesbian comedian is because she will identify as that instead of just a comedian, and I don't care who she has sex with. um the but But what you were saying about Australia, and it doesn't have that same sort of origin story, I've been sort of thinking about this recently with regards to Will Storz, the status game and ah the way that people and individuals virtue signal because they don't have success or they're not dominant, and that's the only way to gained status. And I heard that Sweden called itself, ah they wanted to be a moral superpower because they can't compete and be sort of an economic superpower or a cultural superpower. So you can be a moral superpower by just bringing in loads and loads of immigrants. Is Australia then maybe trying to become a moral superpower with with regards to immigration and things like that? No, that's interesting. No, I think probably Australia's always tried to position itself as a lifestyle superpower. We don't have the culture like the UK does. ah We don't have the history like the US or the UK or Europe does. But we've got the weather, we've got the beaches. yeah And so you you say you're a lifestyle superpower.
00:05:40
Speaker
But I think, again, saying you're a lifestyle superpower isn't exactly as strong in terms of its foundations. You know, the sands of the beach are not strong foundations to build a culture in and of itself. So it means you are very susceptible to the trends of the moment. And Wokism is the trend of the moment. um And as a result of that, you know, the flow from the US s and the UK has hit Australia. And now I think as a result of that, even though the winds are changing in the US and the UK,
00:06:08
Speaker
I think you could possibly see it the reversion back to the main be much slower in Australia as a result of
Challenges of Multiculturalism in Australia
00:06:15
Speaker
that. And one place we're seeing that maybe is ah ah the popularity perhaps of of mass immigration, or at least within and in politics. How's that going over there?
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's the the echoes from the UK will be very familiar to anyone who is currently in in in London or in the UK cities. ah If you look at it per capita, it is actually worse in Australia than it is in the UK but at the moment. I think the numbers are about 500,000 in the last 12 months. Australia's got a population of 27 odd million.
00:06:44
Speaker
Now some people say oh well it's a huge landmass you can fit them in, but that doesn't take into account the fact that you still need to have the services to to to provide for these people, and it doesn't take into account the fact that there's a big massive desert in the middle of the country which is hardly livable. And that is having the same types of threats or or that it presents the same types of threats to social cohesion in Australia as is in the UK. The interesting thing about multiculturalism in Australia is when you, at least when I was going to school in the 90s, multiculturalism was portrayed as this unimpeachable good. I remember in, I think it was called HSIE classes, you know, human society and its environment, something like that. got orwellian yeah Yeah, exactly right. ah
00:07:32
Speaker
And basically, we are a thriving multicultural democracy. And it was just kind of said over and over. And after the white Australia policy, which was, you know, is a stain on Australia's history that was dismantled in the 1960s, late 1960s, Australia embraces a multicultural policy. And during the 70s, 80s, 90s, that's probably worked pretty well, because the types of people that are coming are from Europe,
00:07:56
Speaker
A lot of people from the UK, a lot of people from Ireland, and and from Southeast Asia. A lot of people from China, a lot of people from Vietnam. Now, in terms of Asian migrants over that period of time, they generally did a pretty good job of assimilating. And when they did it, they largely stuck to themselves. And at least we got good Chinese restaurants out of them.
Woke Left & Radical Islamists: A Surprising Alliance?
00:08:17
Speaker
So I think most Australians accepted that trade-off.
00:08:20
Speaker
As you've spoken about a lot on heretics, the multiculturalism game changes when you add Islamic immigration into the mix. And Australia, unfortunately, is seeing the outcomes of that demographic shift that's occurred in the people that are coming to the country in the last 15 to 20 years. And that was sadly on display in the aftermath of October 7, as it was across the West. Do you think Islamism is is pushing, I mean, is there that alignment with maybe a woke left in Australia to be very anti-Israel, verging on anti-Semitism?
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. because Look, it's so fascinating having these conversations where you look at Australia or you look at Ireland or you look at the the satellite states of of America effectively. The same stories are playing out with slightly different tweaks everywhere. And that same story of the merger between the woke left and the radical fundamentalist Islamist is certainly there in Australia. and Many people would have seen really distressing images on the iconic Sydney Opera House, the steps of the iconic Sydney Opera House, where it was, ah despite some people saying that that this is not the case, it was inarguable that you had large groups of Islamic protesters screaming, gas the Jews. yeah That's been debated, hasn't it? What's the story? What's what's the truth there?
00:09:43
Speaker
ah I can only give my opinion from the videos that I've seen. Now, in this day and age that we live in, where the way the videos can be manipulated, there's always ifs and buts, but I've spoken to people who were there. I've seen enough footage from different angles that I think it is inarguable that they were yelling gas, the Jews. And to be honest, that is entirely aligned with that virulent strain of antisemitism ah amongst parts of the Islamic community.
Mislabeling Criticism as Racism
00:10:13
Speaker
in Australia. It just is because that is. That would be unusual for the woke. they wouldn't that That exact sentiment. where I wouldn't expect woke people to shout that, but within extreme parts of Islamism, that's that might be where you get someone being that obvious about it.
00:10:28
Speaker
yeah I think so, and and that particular rally was, from my recollection, overwhelmingly, if not entirely, Islamic protesters. I think where you see, and again, this is where the echoes come from other countries, where you see the the the woke left.
00:10:45
Speaker
pulling out the chance and and making the case is is on the universities and in the campuses. And we can maybe get to this a bit later, but the indoctrination in the Australian education system is possibly worse than it is in the US and the UK. It's really scary. we god Yeah, I suppose the woke would say gas the Israelis i so you know and and there'd be a little wink. Yeah, yeah. And and look, they they probably would be just clever enough not to do it as obviously, and there there may be a way where they would try and provide some subterfuge. but and And this, something Brendan O'Neill has said this really well, anti-Zionism has become the acceptable form of anti-Semitism. And I think you see that playing out everywhere, not just Australia. um And it's it's it's now the the
00:11:35
Speaker
line between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is so blurred as to be indistinguishable in my mind. I think there's a moment where that wasn't the case. I find it really hard now to distinguish from most people. I think it just verges into flat-out anti-Semitism when they say I'm an anti-Zionist. It's such a hard one because you want people to be able to criticise a nation without being accused of some sort of bias against and a race of people. But then you go, what but what other nation would you ever call into question their existence? i I've never heard that before. Yeah, well, this also is one of the great stories of modern wealth. Great, I use perhaps is the wrong adjective, but one of the stories of modern times, which is the conflation of race and culture.
Conflation of Cultural Criticism with Racism
00:12:13
Speaker
And you see this play out in Australia, not just when it comes to Islam, you see it play out when it comes to, say, the indigenous population.
00:12:20
Speaker
ah We, the Left, have willingly conflated racism with, which is unacceptable from a moral viewpoint, I think any rational person will agree with that, with legitimate criticisms of culture.
00:12:35
Speaker
which is entirely acceptable in a Western liberal democracy. And there have been so many times where I've been on Sky News in Australia and I've got pushback because I have said there are problems in Islamic culture that we need to address. And this shouldn't be controversial, whether it be the treatment of women, whether it be the treatment of minority groups, whether it be the disdain that they have for the separation between church and state.
00:12:58
Speaker
This is stuff that Dawkins and Hitchens were writing bestsellers about 15 years ago. You know, you've spoken to Richard about this and even he now I think recognizes that the landscape has changed and legitimate criticisms of culture basically now tie you as a racist. And I think the right, what even just the right sensible people need to push back on this or else it's just going to get worse and worse and you're going to see more.
00:13:18
Speaker
of the systemic problems in say indigenous communities in Australia continue and in Islamic communities continue. What does it make you feel like as an Australian living here or maybe you weren't here yet with that Sydney Opera House ah stuff?
00:13:35
Speaker
The first word that comes to mind is ashamed. But at the same time, I don't see that as being an Australian problem as much as it is a global problem.
00:13:50
Speaker
i i I'm ashamed to the extent that it happened in Australia, but I think Australia is just another sad offshoot of this corruption of of Western society and this self-flagellating instinct that we have in Western society now, which which manifests itself in those types of rallies. The one thing I would say I think there is a really interesting pushback now in the UK in the form of the alternative media. People like you, people like the trigonometry guys. um I think even now some of the mainstream media organisations like GB News, which is now outrating Sky and the BBC consistently, you are getting a pushback and a defence of Western civilisation. I don't think that same pushback is there to the same extent in Australia yet.
00:14:41
Speaker
I'm hopeful, I think in kind of the work that hopefully I'm doing with the spectator. There are really good people like John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister. But I don't think we have that same pushback, because I don't think we have the same cultural foundations to push back from in the first place. And that's something which concerns
Complacency from Historical Good Living Conditions
00:14:58
Speaker
me a bit. It's really scary and it's it's actually it's so scary for many Well, people in Britain, for example, those of us who do say, gosh, well, if it does keep getting worse in Europe, at least we'll go somewhere far flung, such as Australia. We can go somewhere with a similar culture, similar people, same language, beautiful climate, and all of those things are just f off to Australia. How wonderful. ah but But this concern that we're having has even spread that far. yeah
00:15:24
Speaker
I think the the other thing which you need to keep in mind about Australia as well and why it is so susceptible to this ideology is that Australians have had it very good for a long time. As you just mentioned, you know yeah the UK for a long time was right in saying that Australia is a wonderful place to live and a very harmonious environment.
00:15:42
Speaker
But what that means is we've never really had to fight for freedom. ah the The closest or the the nearest fight was World War Two, and then before that, Gallipoli. and Gallipoli is really the Australian origin story.
00:15:56
Speaker
um ah But that's a long, long time ago now. And for the from the end of World War II onwards, the economy's been good, ah society has been prosperous, and generally you've had pretty good governance. And as a result of that, you haven't really had any existential threats. And so Australians have got complacent. And now when there are, I think, existential threats on the horizon in the form of mass migration, in the form of the the woke attack on Western civilization, we don't have the instinct to be able to fight back in the same way that perhaps, particularly America, which has faced some serious challenges afterward too, does have that instinctive fight back mechanism. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it's a fundamental issue with individual liberty, or the concept of individual liberty, that your tolerance you know you have to be tolerant of the intolerance, and that's a flaw right now?
Tolerance of Intolerance: A Debate
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah. What is that? that's um but yeah to to To tolerate intolerance. You cannot tolerate intolerance because you get to a point where intolerance then reigns. But the what the woke would use that and say that that's why they don't tolerate us saying that trans women are not women, for example. Yeah. yeah And I think that's something I've probably evolved my views on over time. um and ah I think there is that laissez-faire attitude in Australia. Australia has that wonderful term, she'll be right mate, you know, and it kind of just goes, you know, everything probably will work out in the end. And um in one respect, that is a wonderful part of the Australian psyche.
00:17:36
Speaker
But at the same time, it basically means that you let a lot of shit just go through to the keeper. You let a lot of shit just happen. Um, you know, if you see 500,000 immigrants, many of whom coming from countries that don't share our values coming over the border, she'll be right. But when you, you see the sort of mentality, you see the kind of the way that school curriculums are changing in Australia with this black armband view of history, being ashamed of our past, as opposed to promoting the wonderful things about our past.
00:18:04
Speaker
she'll be right mate. And I think the right has a big job on its hands to cut that she'll be right mate mentality in the culture wars and actually say, no, you know what, she probably won't be right if we don't stand up and fight back against some of the things that we're seeing. Is is right sort of Australian for all rights? in that and thats She'll be all right mate. Have you heard that one? She'll be right mate. I think our equivalent would be cheer up, it might never happen. yeah say that Cheer up mate, it might never happen. I'd never got that for years as a kid. I remember hearing that and going like, but what won't happen? And now I understand it's more abstract. well There's a really interesting parallel, I think, between Australia and the UK and how we think about ourselves and our countries. I was speaking about this with Douglas Murray and I was saying, I was giving him that spiel that I gave you that, you know, we think of ourselves as you rugged individualists and really we're now nothing of the sort. And he was saying, you know what, the UK probably still thinks of itself as the stiff upper lip, quiet, solemn duty, you know, the embodiment, the Queen was the embodiment of that national character.
Cognitive Dissonance in National Character
00:19:03
Speaker
And if you look at the UK today, I would argue that that sort of quiet determination is at odds with woke ism and at odds with a lot of the behaviors that you see in the UK today. And it raises a really interesting question of what happens when you have cognitive dissonance on a mass scale when the way that a country perceives itself.
00:19:23
Speaker
is actually at odds with the behaviours and the attitudes within that country. I haven't worked, I'm not smart enough to work out what the actual answer is to that, but I think the UK and Australia are both suffering with cognitive dissonance on that scale. I think it is, that's really interesting. And it's interesting to see the difference in those two phrases as well, because she'll be right, is slightly positive, whereas it might never happen, it's slightly negative. I think that's a slight difference between, we're looking at it from a negative, like it might never happen. I've always thought that Australia is, if you look at America being optimistic by inclination and the British being cynical by inclination, Australia is probably drawn on both of those strands and comes out around the middle, which are not a bad place to be. That's interesting. And I think that is also really interesting when you look at the cultural forces that have shaped Australia.
British and American Influences on Australian Identity
00:20:11
Speaker
It is this weird hybrid between British influence and American
00:20:15
Speaker
influence, um and I've always quite, quite liked that. ah ah but But interestingly, I definitely think Australians culturally still resonate with the British much more so than than than Americans. So all the sports and things as well. Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, so so what sort of clashes are we seeing? Are we seeing clashes already, Islamist clashes and things like that? There were a couple that spring to mind.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yes, not nearly to the same level of intensity as what we've seen in the UK in the last six months. But I was reading, you mentioned Constance and I was reading his report back of his time in Australia earlier this year. And he basically said, what I'm seeing is the UK 10 years ago. Wow.
00:20:56
Speaker
And I think there is a lot to that. And I think if we don't take control of that this cultural narrative now, i'm particularly around the threat of fundamentalist Islamic beliefs,
00:21:12
Speaker
There is no reason that you won't see a south port equivalent you australia ah in in the next two to to five years. You've already seen these sort of skirmishes. You see in the outskirts of Melbourne, um yeah know African gangs are now very much a problem. Of course, people who are listening to this on the left will call me far right for even mentioning that, but it's undoubtedly the case. ah So I think we are, ah fortunately,
00:21:40
Speaker
behind where the UK is in terms of the fraying of the social fabric as a result of mass migration, but I think we're on the same track. Mason- There was the, was it the Lindt Cafe siege? yeah What was that? Andrew- Yeah. This was about a decade ago now. and It was an Islamic fundamentalist who took control of ah the Lindt Cafe in Martin Place in Sydney, which is the main central hub of
Lindt Cafe Siege: Lessons Unlearned?
00:22:05
Speaker
Sydney. Think um you know Trafalgar Square as the equivalent ah And he hung an ISIS flag from memory from the the window of the cafe. The siege lasted for maybe it may have been a day and the N2 people lost lost their lives. um It wasn't the first time that Australia has been touched by ah Islamic ah terrorism,
00:22:28
Speaker
um the Bali bombings in the early 2000s. I mean, in Bali where many Australians lost their lives probably was when that really hit Australians on a visceral level. But from memory, it's probably the first time we've we've seen Islamic terrorism play out on such a public stage in Australia. I'm not sure we learnt the lessons from that in the way that we potentially should have.
00:22:53
Speaker
After that, we then moved into the era where it became racist to call that stuff out. You have this mentality, which again, plays out in the UK, America, Australia, of, well, it's just the fringes of Islamic culture. It's just the extremists, but most Islamists are good Islamists. The Islamists are good Islamists. They're the ones who are similar to Western culture.
00:23:18
Speaker
The problem still remains around Islamic culture. It's just that they've taken on the bits of Western culture that that you need to suppress the bad bits of Islamic culture. That's so interesting because I was having this debate with someone recently, a friend of mine who's who's a bit more woke, and it didn't occur to me to say what you just said, actually.
00:23:33
Speaker
because Because I was so, I was more focused on saying, no, no, it's it's a smaller number than you think who have actually adapted to Western culture. But it didn't occur to me to go, right. Okay. You're saying that those people, many are not that way, but the problem is the problem still. it's that You're saying it's good that they're not ah over overtly Islamic. Absolutely. Yeah. Because they have adopted the appropriate parts of Western culture that you need to to to integrate. ah This is also, by the way, where I struggle, so I would call myself a libertarian.
00:24:02
Speaker
But this is also where I struggle with most libertarians who do go for an open borders globalist mentality for the reason that these mass migration policies get you to a point eventually, it's like the kind of tolerance of intolerance point yeah where you reach a critical mass of people where the, uh, the culture can then be influenced and the culture slowly becomes less liberal.
00:24:28
Speaker
The one difference in Australia to the UK, which gives me some kind comfort gives me some comfort is compulsory voting. So you look at where the UK is now, and I'm really worried with the demographic shifts in the UK in a voluntary voting system.
00:24:43
Speaker
we're already seeing the rise of sectarian voting blocks emerging look at the awful outcome of that leads election we saw a lot of being yellow after election day i think you can argue that sick i realize heavily on an islamic voting block in order to retain power in london.
00:24:59
Speaker
It's very susceptible to small groups of sectarian voters voting in unison. and The good thing about compulsory voting is that it guards against those sorts of sectarian vote blocs having an outsized impact on the result. So, whilst I'm generally against forcing people to do things, one of the few areas I think it's good to force people to do things is to force them to vote.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's another really interesting one where we're struggling. I think that's this is a problem for libertarians or those who who are but just into individual liberty. It's a problem for us. We're sitting here going, oh gosh, this is a huge flaw because of that sectarian kind of voting. yeah um I mean, I so i spoke to and a former Hasidic Jew recently and he said like,
00:25:37
Speaker
you got understand, you know, i grew up this he said this I grew up in this Hasidic community. I know what they do in these kinds of sects and the Hasidic Jewish community is quite extreme, but it's nothing compared to extreme Islam. I mean, as they youve I've never heard of them blowing anything up or anything like that, but it's quite extreme. And he said,
00:25:53
Speaker
within those groups, there are all sorts of tax issues where they don't pay, there are education issues. If they can get away with things to correspond with their belief system, they will do it. So he's seen it first-hand, and they will encourage one another to vote for a particular person. Now, there's like 20,000 Hasidic Jews in the country. There are four or five million Muslims in the UK, I'm talking about. So that's that's a huge difference that people are not fully understanding. I'd be worried about any sectarian group suddenly having that kind of dominance.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think there is a reasonable distinction to make between even hardline Jewish groups and Islamic groups, because I don't think there is that same conquering insect instinct in the Jewish culture. It's the opposite. Exclude. Exactly. is going like we You do your thing, we do our own thing. exactly Exactly right. Whereas I think that there is, you know, you look at the origins of Islam, it is an origins of conquest, and you can polish up the Quran all you want and make it mean all you want, but the fact of the matter is it has been interpreted by far too many people to be a religion of conquest. And and that, once again, is playing out across the West at varying speeds to varying degrees, but there is no doubt that it is it is playing out. And we need to have more confidence and courage to be able to call that out in a sensible but firm way. What about the the Melbourne stabbings? Was that the drive the car thing?
00:27:14
Speaker
i Yeah, I think there's actually been a few examples like that over the last five to 10 years.
Ideology vs. Mental Health: A Political Narrative
00:27:21
Speaker
And once again, it's the same story that we've seen play out across the West, but the The challenge that you have is that a lot of people just dismiss it as one bad egg, or as one extremist, or alternatively, they turn it into a mental health issue as opposed to an ideological issue. And it's really funny when that, it's not funny, it's tragic when that happens, but I find it so interesting that whenever the left wants something to suit their narrative, they will say, oh, well.
00:27:49
Speaker
This is a mental health issue. But on the other side, if something happens on the right, for example, the Christchurch shooter, he was an Australian and um when he attacked a mosque, I don't know, four or five years ago. First thing they say is, well, you know, he's a right wing Christian nationalist or a fascist. The ideology always comes first. On the left, it's always the mental health that always comes first. There's no consistency with how we address these issues. That's interesting. Gosh, there've been some attacks, haven't there? was that There's a really famous attack that was actually a white fella that got guns banned, wasn't there? years I mean, nothing to do with this topic, but I just popped into my head. yeah yeah well i so funly so so That was Martin Bright, and I think that was 95 or 96, and it was at that stage, I'm sorry, still is, Australia's worst mass shooting, 30 to 40 killed from memory, and that led to ah what was considered
00:28:39
Speaker
arguably the most significant achievement of John Howard's prime ministership, John Howard being the great Australian right-wing conservative leader of the 90s and early 2000s, Australia's last really formidable leader. and He went against the conservative wing of the Liberal Party, which is the equivalent of the conservatives in the UK, and effectively overhauled gun laws in Australia at the time.
00:29:02
Speaker
gun buybacks, all that sort of thing. I've been on several American podcasts in the last year or two.
Australia's Gun Laws & Liberty Debate
00:29:08
Speaker
And they always point to that as a moment where Australia potentially lost its liberty. You guys gave your guns away. And as a result of that, it's no surprise that therefore during COVID you gave away your freedoms much quicker than any other country.
00:29:21
Speaker
I don't buy into that argument, but when I speak to Americans, that is the point where they say, if you give away your guns, you give away your liberty, and that is a turning point for Australia when it comes to to the lack of freedom that many people have witnessed over the last three or four years. It's funny, there's that there's almost an irreconcilable difference between the Americans and and the rest of us, even if we agree on everything else politically just around around guns. I just can't get my head around that the the guns thing. and I think most people in the UK and Australia can't get their head around the guns thing, even if they are, as we both are, supporters of individual liberty. yeah yeah it's a but But also, I suppose, as I've gotten older, I've actually i've at least understood their argument better, rather than just thinking a bunch of lunatics. Now I think, okay, I get why they're saying it. It's just not necessarily what I want here. Yeah, I agree. And also I've got to the point in America whereby the problem is just too far gone. If you take away guns from the good guys, the bad guys will still have the guns. Whereas that wasn't the case in Australia in 96. So now, even if they really wanted to to do something similar to Australia, which would never in a million years happen, practically it could also never in a million years happen. Yeah, that's true. That's true. What's Prime Minister Anthony Albanese? Is that how you say his name?
00:30:31
Speaker
Albenizi. Albenizi. I'm going to say that again. What's Prime Minister?
Immigration's Role in the Economy
00:30:34
Speaker
Actually, I won't. I'll leave that out. What's Albenizi? What's he saying about immigration? Mediocre pronunciation for a mediocre Prime Minister. So, I can make it easy for listeners. He's doing exactly what Kistama is doing.
00:30:51
Speaker
Ah, basically, in fact, even think of, think of, you know, an Antipodean Chiestama and you pretty much have Albanese, ah this kind of pretty nothing technocrat, ah vacuous, yeah you know, mediocre talent.
00:31:08
Speaker
that has gone through the left-wing political machine, and it ended up in a position far above his station. um I imagine whenever they meet, they must get on like a house on fire, because they're both just joined in this vacuous mediocrity together.
00:31:24
Speaker
ah So he's doing what Starmer did quite extraordinarily a couple of weeks ago, where he's saying all the things around immigration. You know, it is too high. We need to think about social cohesion. We need to think about housing. Housing is a bigger problem in Australia than it is in the UK. And he knows that it is becoming increasingly politically toxic to support high levels of of immigration. But to my knowledge,
00:31:46
Speaker
He, like Starmer, hasn't put a firm target on it. He, to my knowledge, hasn't really shown how we can get there. And here's the critical problem for Australia and the UK when it comes to immigration, is that on a political level, people are going, we can't sustain this.
Economic Dependence on China
00:32:05
Speaker
But both economies now yeah are absolutely ah addicted to cheap labour that comes from immigration as a way to cheat productivity growth and not to make the hard structural changes to make their economies more more productive. um It is a sugar hit and it's been a sugar hit for late liberal governments and labour governments for 15 years now to stop them from making hard decisions. If you take away immigration, suddenly I imagine our GDP growth goes into negatives very, very quickly, and it needs a fundamental rethinking of the economy to change that exactly like the UK. And because of those problems, I can't see this really changing to the degree it needs to change in either country anytime soon. Because no politician no politician is going to bear the brunt of that short term.
00:32:53
Speaker
hit Yeah, so in the yeah UK, the problem is that you don't have kind of you know enough unskilled workers willing to do those jobs, and that will require a cultural change, it will require corporates to change their their training programs. It will require a lot of difficult things to do. In Australia, the the issues are that we haven't adequately moved up the value chain in commodities effectively, and we haven't diversified enough from China.
00:33:19
Speaker
so australia I often say, and I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, but not much. Australia is a middle power that should be a superpower. If you look at all of the raw commodities that basically mean anything in this world, Australia is in the top three, or at the very least the top 10 producers of pretty much everything. But the amount of iron ore Australia produces compared to the rest of the world is staggering. The amount of uranium Australia produces is staggering.
00:33:44
Speaker
But our economy, what basically does is it gets the raw materials, digs it up and then ships it off to China. And then they do the rest. They turn it into the actual proper metals and then they didn' turn it into, you know, your TVs or whatever. iPhones.
00:34:00
Speaker
Australia, probably in the 1980s, 1990s should have said, we need to modernize our economy and instead of just digging up stuff from the ground, we actually need to, uh, to smelt it or to, to do more with it. Uh, even if we don't get quite to the manufacturing phase, we never bothered to do that because we were making such ludicrous amounts of money off China as they just bought more and more of our old materials as they went through their big boom. But now.
00:34:27
Speaker
With the sad reality that we may very well, and by we, I mean the US, UK, Australia, be at war with China by the end of the decade in some way, shape or form, we're going to find that we really should have worked harder to move up the value chain. And whilst we're making some efforts to go more into the India and other parts of Southeast Asia, we should have done more to wean ourselves off China.
Risks of Over-reliance on Immigration
00:34:48
Speaker
So there is a very real risk geopolitically, if Australia does fall, if there is a bigger conflict with China, the Australian economy is stuffed. Absolutely stuffed. wow And that's something which like I think a lot of people just have their head in the sand about. And it will fill that hole with more and more cheap labour immigration.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good point, which I had hadn't considered, but yeah you'd have to assume that that would be be the case. so So it's just unfortunate that these Western economies have shirked hard decisions for too long. And as a result of that, I feel like our generation, like we we're both mid 30s now, um unfortunately.
00:35:26
Speaker
about to cop the consequences of you know people in the 80s and 90s taking too many easy choices. It's almost like we need something in our political systems that would disincentivise short-termism, something that would be like, okay, do this, but if in 30 years it's found that your mistake what you did made it worse, we're going to hang you. Obviously not that.
00:35:47
Speaker
I quite like all that would be going back to more kind of UK medieval time. So it's interesting. So Australian term limits are three years. UK is five. um Now, when you've got a rotten government like we have in the UK at the moment, that feels like a heck of a long time. But the argument against ah those short term limits is nothing ever really gets done in Australia in terms of genuine reform. So you have your, probably your first year as your honeymoon.
00:36:11
Speaker
The second year you are trying to consolidate, and then the third year you're campaigning. You've really probably got 18 months to get stuff done as a government. And then in your second term, and Australians almost always vote back in the government. We haven't had a first term government lose since the 1930s.
00:36:30
Speaker
But your second term, you're coming in with a reduced majority normally. You've already taken a lot of political hits. yeahre You're generally more conservative. And so we've had this situation in Australia where you've probably had one to two year stretches in the last, every decade for the last 20 years where we could have got stuff done and we haven't.
Indigenous Referendum: A Backlash?
00:36:50
Speaker
Now the Australian government, and we can get onto the indigenous issue, they chose to use that one year period at the start of the Albanese government for a symbolic flight of folly, which was the the voice recognition campaign, which che which which ultimately was a monumental failure, uh, that this government has never recovered from. And it was what was it? Yeah. So, uh, Australia has a written constitution, unlike the United Kingdom. Uh, and what it was, was a change to the constitution. And when you have to change a constitution, you have a referendum. So over everyone in Australia votes.
00:37:24
Speaker
to acknowledge Indigenous Australians in the Constitution and give them some sort of a body to vote on matters that affect them, which would then be taken into consideration by the parliament. The details were always a bit sketchy on how it would work. And this was a classic story of every single institution in the country mobilizing around the Woke Yes campaign.
00:37:47
Speaker
all the corporates, ah apart from the the Liberal Coalition right-wing party, all of the political class, all of the media, all of the celebrities such as they are in Australia, everyone mobilised around it. And if you were not For this, you're a racist. You could have argued all you want around not separating our country on the basis of race. You could have argued that this is practically going to be a disaster in terms of how it's implemented. You could argue that this wasn't actually going to change indigenous living standards. It does didn't matter. You're a racist. I've never copped so much because I took on a fairly prominent vocal role, at least in social media and on TV, supporting the No campaign.
00:38:26
Speaker
And I got so much abuse. and um This isn't a sob story for me. so Everyone in my position got so much abuse and were called racist. And it was one of those wonderful moments, similar to Trump, similar to Brexit, that on election day, despite having the deck stacked entirely against the no campaign, ah no got up 60 to 40 in the most resounding of ways. and know the The fundraising would have been 10 to one for yes to no, and yet Again, similar you know this was the Australian Trump moment. um Everyday people basically said, we're not going to be lectured by the elites and being told that we're racist. We believe in having one country that isn't separated on racial grounds. So I looked at it as a remarkably positive moment in Australian history, but there's no doubt that it also
00:39:09
Speaker
um hamstrung the government. It set back genuine reform for Australia because no government's going to want to do something that big picture for a long period of time because they just take off too much skin. And it certainly didn't help Indigenous Australians who are still in a very, very dark place when you compare them in terms of living standards to the rest of the country.
00:39:28
Speaker
Gosh, what ah what a mess that that sat that is. And what about wokeness in general? Kids, ah fashion, trans, that stuff? Yeah, all of that. All of that is still very much at play in Australia. You'll see um the flavour that it takes on in Australia is Indigenous a lot of the time. um So you have the same gender ideology stuff, you know, you've had so Grover on, I believe.
00:39:51
Speaker
um But the big thing is around our relationship with with our indigenous ah with indigenous citizens.
Indigenous History & Self-Criticism
00:40:00
Speaker
If the original sin for the US is slavery, the original sin for the UK is colonialism, the original sin for Australia is the treatment of indigenous Australians. so And you have the same response, the self-fludgelating instinct to say that that um that we are, we are responsible for the sins of the past and we must atone. So if you look at that in schools now, uh, in fact every everywhere, um, you have these welcome to country rituals where they get longer and they get more nauseating every day. Uh, where you have basically have to say, we are sitting on your land. Um, and we are welcome to our own country. They now basically they're at every sporting event and they take longer than the first half some of the time. i have to see half It's painful. Uh, but, but the good thing is.
00:40:44
Speaker
The right wing of Australian politics after the madness of that 2020 period all around the world, the winds are starting to change. And we're seeing a lot of people go, you know, this is overkill. This is nonsense. So Peter Dutton, the Australian opposition leader, came out the other day and said, I'm sick of seeing three flags behind leaders whenever they make a press conference.
National Identity & Flag Debate
00:41:06
Speaker
So it's always the.
00:41:08
Speaker
Indigenous flag, the Torres Strait Island flag, which is an island off the coast of Northern Australia, and the Australian flag. I was at a High Commission event in London, the Australian High Commission in London, and behind the speaker was the Australian flag on the left.
00:41:25
Speaker
and Sorry, the Australian flag on the right, the Torres Strait Island flag on the left, indigenous flag in the middle. And it felt like the Australian flag was an afterthought. yeah And it really annoyed me, you know, because we are one country. That is the one thing that should unite us. And luckily Dutton said, going forward, I'm going to have one flag. And that, of course, has drawn outrage from the left to seize it as weaponizing division.
00:41:46
Speaker
Because of course, whenever the right gets involved in the culture wars, they're accused by the left of screeching, culture or culture war, when really they are responding to the changes that the left are trying to make to the culture. And this is a classic example of that. That's absolutely right. There were also issues, and I don't know if this is going off topic too much, but Aboriginal communities, and we can't even say the word on YouTuber, we call it child abuses and things when the people couldn't properly investigate.
Child Abuse in Indigenous Communities: A Paralleled Silence
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. And, and so this is Australia's Rotherham. This is, this is as well. I would would say for those who don't know ro Rotherham quickly, perhaps you should down because you, you're not better than I am. You've done a lot of Muslim stuff.
00:42:27
Speaker
I want to say it right, I'm not going to get it wrong, but the British-Pakistani grooming gangs. It's been, in the UK, covered up and not reported by the media and not investigated by police for decades now because of fears that this is racist or it's a culture that we should just leave alone. Now, the same principle applies in Australia in that I saw the other day, ah Alice Springs, I think is from memory of the 17th or the 18th most dangerous city in the world. Alice Springs is the largely indigenous city right smack bang in the middle of Australia. But it's it's up there with, you know, cities in the, you know, the worst parts of the Middle East or.
00:43:08
Speaker
Africa or or wherever. And this is in the middle of Australia, the 12th or 13th biggest economy in the world, Western liberal democracy. It is our nation's shame. You know, I agree with the left that that there is huge problems with the Indigenous communities, particularly in in rural, regional, outback parts of Australia.
00:43:28
Speaker
But you can't ignore the numbers that there are significantly disproportionate volumes of child sexual abuse in indigenous communities. And we're not talking slight statistical variations. You are, and I don't have the exact numbers on me.
00:43:45
Speaker
But if you are an indigenous girl or boy living in a rural, indigenous, remote community, you are statistically considerably, considerably more likely to be the victim of sexual abuse.
00:44:00
Speaker
and For the same reasons as Rotherham, it is taboo in many parts of the policing establishment and the media to talk about this because of fears of racism, because of fears of, well, you're just stigmatising Indigenous Australians. It is the nation's shame. It is a tragedy.
00:44:21
Speaker
ah i there aren't any well there The easy answer is courage, is is actually having the courage to to stand up to to those nonsense sorts of of views. um But Indigenous living standards and crime in Indigenous communities have been a perpetual problem for 100 years, and it's a problem that just...
Critique of Cultural Relativism
00:44:41
Speaker
no government has been able to solve. Mason- It reminds me of that. There's there's been a ah fashion recently for saying that all cultures are equal, which I suppose goes back to your initial point earlier on about conflating race with culture. and and That's an example. I don't care who has to who doesn't want to hear it, but that's an example of a culture, at least in that aspect, that is not good.
00:44:59
Speaker
cultural relativism is one of the great cultural Cultural relativism ah is one of the great rorts of the modern progressive movement. It's so bloody stupid. because you can get like If you take it to first principles, you take it back to just kind of the the logical starting points.
00:45:16
Speaker
you know Of course, a culture that practices genital mutilation that ah that, for example, spears people in the thigh in circle-sentencing rituals ah for for crimes in in their local communities, which still happens in remote parts of Indigenous Australia today, you just can't say that that is a comparable or equal culture to one that is built on the values of Western liberal democracy. It's a nonsense, and everyone, and I think even the people who argue against it deep down know It is a nonsense, but unfortunately, Australia does have that cultural relativism trap. And this goes back to the way that we look at indigenous history. You know, in some respects, you know, I have some admiration for a culture that lived continuously in an inhospitable environment like Australia for 65,000 plus years. At the same time, they're the only civilization that never invented the will. They are. They are the only civilization that never invented the will.
00:46:09
Speaker
It's just like square wheels moving around. I don't think they got to the the level of square wheels. wow it's it the and you know I didn't even know that was a thing that that tribes up until very recently, there were there were people who didn't have the wheel. yeah and so um If you come from a place of valuing the Enlightenment, valuing the immense progress that has characterised Western civilisation from the Royal or the Greeks onwards.
Reverence Toward Indigenous Culture
00:46:42
Speaker
um ah I just don't think I need to bow down in this sort of reverence for Indigenous culture, which is what all the schools and what the media makes you do. Now, that doesn't mean being disrespectful necessarily. It doesn't mean being rude.
00:46:58
Speaker
ah But it doesn't mean that we have to just get on our knees and praise these sorts of, you know, ah to praise this culture without any kind of logical thought. So I know now in in primary school and high school as well, it is a requirement that you have to look at indigenous religions. And these are things like, you know, rainbow serpents and all all that sort of stuff.
00:47:23
Speaker
Now, again, there is a difference between going ah you know between between denigrating on. And having this faux reverence for the mysticism and the attachment to the land and all that sort of stuff. And unfortunately, we don't have that balanced right, because there are racists in Australia. There are people who who will go too much the other way, but then there are people who will make you basically say things which just don't pass the sniff test. It's like Maori ways of knowing, isn't it? Yeah. and yeah it's it's It's bonkers that.
00:47:56
Speaker
and I think um we say this a lot about wokeness, but but again, this is this a clear example of racism itself. this this i mean There's nothing in an Aboriginal skin colour or race ah that prevents them from adapting to a Western culture. Maybe that sounds like some sort of imperialism, moral imperialism, I don't care, and being able to make a wheel, and then being able to become a Nobel Prize Laureate. Who cares about the race? Who cares about immutable features? I couldn't get a hoot. ah But this idea that we we should they should be revered for but
00:48:27
Speaker
mystical ways of knowing, I think, is itself deeply racist. It's that old George W. Bush slide, the soft bigotry of low expectations as well. Did he say that? Was it the first, George? I think it was the second. If someone can fact check me if they're listening.
00:48:43
Speaker
But I think it was to a W bush. um Anyway, it's it's the right it's the right line, it's appropriate here. And I think there is very much the soft bigotry of low expectations when it comes to the way that Australians look at ah parts, at at indigenous, remote indigenous communities. I think the other thing which is worth making a nuance, it's worth pointing out, 80% of indigenous Australians live in city areas, are fully assimilated. um And if you look at The main statistics around quality of life and ah life expectancy, the big ones, the big metrics, they're comparable and they're the same as white Australians. So we're not talking about Indigenous Australians, we're talking about the 20% that live still in those outback and regional Indigenous communities. So I think that that is.
00:49:29
Speaker
Uh, and also an important nuance because sometimes there is that racism to say that, that, that it is, you're right. It is something to do with the skin. And it's not, it's to do with the way that people in those communities have set up those communities and the basic reality that there are no jobs there. There are no hospitals, you know, there, you know, there are no kind of basic necessities or basic necessities are difficult to get there. These are all societal cultural problems. They're not race-based problems.
00:49:54
Speaker
If I'm one of the Aboriginal people living in the cities and I've got a nice job, I'm a lawyer or whatever, and I'm hearing in all of this, like we've got to start worshipping mystical ways of knowing. I'd be so pissed off, I'd be so annoyed that why are you doing this? Don't embarrass me and my people, you know? Yeah, I think so and certainly many people certainly do feel that way. um Some others would take the more woke worldview. Yes, I am a victor. I'm a high-flying lawyer who is a victim. yeah and look And similarly, the amount of advantages that you now get if you're hot she to the 116th or 132nd Aboriginal in terms of oh easier access to universities, in terms of tax breaks, in terms of the ah a lot of the time corporate schemes to get you into jobs more easily. um I would argue that
00:50:39
Speaker
There has been a redress for the undoubted sins of the past in in those sorts of programs today. But as we've seen in America, um particularly, it's never enough. You know, the kind of the the minority ah movements,
00:50:58
Speaker
um ah and by that I mean largely the white liberal intellectuals that take on these movements, as opposed to, a lot of the time, the actual people who who ah form those minority groups themselves, you know they will keep just taking more and more and more. you know It's that kind of consistent march through the institutions, and it doesn't stop.
00:51:21
Speaker
reminds me of ah speaking to Rob Henderson recently. and he's fantastic Yeah, in his whole life, he thought he was Asian or East Asian, ah which wouldn't have helped him get into any kind of university, because a bit like Jews, because they've been successful, people somehow see them as white, super white, East Asians. It's absurd. yeah ah But he recently realised he's actually part Mexican, and he thought, I could have gotten so much help getting into these universities as a Hispanic or whatever it might be. It's so crazy that whole thing. i'm I want to ask you just briefly then, just to to for anyone who didn't know about it. I mean, you mentioned Sal Grover and people know there is an ah episode I did with Sal a while ago. um That judgment was fairly recent. yeah Was that a shock to you and what did the judge say? No, it was wasn't a shock. So it's the farcically named Giggle v. Tickle case yeah and for a farcical issue, appropriately farcical case name. ah
00:52:17
Speaker
The judge, I don't actually think, erred in law. The problem I don't think was the judgment. The problem was the law. So we have a sex discrimination act in Australia, and in one of the great historical ironies, our first female prime minister in 2013, Julia Gillard, the self-styled champion for women.
00:52:38
Speaker
uh, in a move that at the time didn't get much media attention amended that sex discrimination act to include the interpretation of sex discrimination as gender-based discrimination. And that gender-based discrimination is how you interpret your gender. So it takes it from the objective of biology to the subjective of feelings. And from that point, um,
00:53:02
Speaker
That case, in my mind, and I'm not a legal expert, was always going to go in that direction. so I don't blame the the judicial system, but I blame incredibly weak politicians, particularly on the right of politics who did not push back against this stuff, ah for at the time just not recognizing the consequences of that, and subsequently not changing it after we have realized the mania that accompanied the gender ideology movement. And so what happened for those who who don't, I think most people do know now, but there there was this ah tickle fellow who wanted, i oh I mean trans person who wanted access to... Yeah. so So Sal was setting up a women's only social media site effectively. And this bloke who identified as a woman wanted access to that site. And he claimed that he identified as a woman, so he should be allowed on a women's only site.
00:53:53
Speaker
Sal, I think, saw the photos and went, no, you're not a woman. And it's like, this bloke, everyone who looks at this photo will go, no, you are not a woman. ah So, no, i'm I'm sorry. It goes against the entire principle of this site, which is to give women a so space to feel empowered and to feel safe.
00:54:13
Speaker
Uh, he took issue with that. Some of the left wing, uh, progressive movements saw this as an opportunity to, to make a stand. Uh, and I'm sure that I don't have evidence. I'm sure they were, you know, some of those sorts of groups, the ones that were funding his case. Uh, and then it got to the, not the highest court in the lounge, the high court, but it may have been the one below that. Um, and I think that they are looking at, at appeals now to take it to the highest court, which is the high court. But once again.
00:54:42
Speaker
without a deep legal knowledge, I still think it will be very difficult because the problem here is not the judges, it is the politicians and the legislation that they have brought to bear. Which is completely insane, isn't it? but i mean she i so I told Sal we were talking, she says hi, and she she wanted to know why we think or you think that ah the press didn't show any pictures of Roxy Tickle during the whole thing.
00:55:06
Speaker
Uh, the ideological capture of the press, the same story that has played out, you know, that we've seen so many times before, because 10% of the population yelling and screaming that the Sydney Morning Herald ah are, what would be the term, you know, not even TERFs, but, but you know, that they are bigots, um, is enough to stop them from showing courage. Uh,
00:55:33
Speaker
There would no doubt be complaints to media regulators, and once again, the media regulators are equally captured by this type of ideological nonsense. Also, because I suppose a picture just completely shows what a nonsense this is. if people Because people probably see, oh, it's a transport, they're just reading it, but if they actually saw RoxyTeko, it sort of brings home the reality. It really, really does. And it also, you know, the um the women that were behind the ah Giggle case, sales case, are all young-ish. They're all good looking. They're all intelligent. They're all very impressive. Catherine Deaves are more redeeming. ah Sal Grover, obviously. And so the contrast between this and and and this bloke.
00:56:15
Speaker
The visual contrast is so stark and then, you know, I would add the intellectual contrast is so stark that that picture really does tell a thousand words and it's thousand words that most of the mainstream media in Australia do not want to tell. I got one more question for you, but where can people find your work and follow you?
00:56:34
Speaker
ah So, I host Fire at Will, podcast from the spectator Australia. I like to think of it as an Antibedean spiritual cousin to heretics, ah to to to ride in your slipstream. ah That means Australian for anyone who doesn't know. Yes, absolutely. um ah Follow us on YouTube, also on all of the podcast platforms. ah Also a regular contributor on Talk TV and GB News, ah particularly on the Saturday 5, 6pm at GB News every Saturday. Check it out.
00:57:04
Speaker
It can also mean New Zealand. ah and just I don't want to little leave them out, but yeah people i mean i'll I'll say in a minute. but people you know that anyway what's who's a he Who's a heretic you admire? I will go for an Australian with deep roots to the UK, Barry Humphries. Barry Humphries for everyone who doesn't know. The alter ego was Day Midna.
00:57:23
Speaker
And he does embody those values that I mentioned at the start of the conversation, the irreverence, the anti-authoritarianism, the taking the piss mentality. ah And just like when the Queen died in the yeah UK, I think the country was particularly sad because it felt like an era or ah was was dying with her and a particular version of Englishness was dying with her.
00:57:45
Speaker
When Barry Humphries died, I felt like Australia felt that a particular version of Australia died with him. And I really hope the country can get it back. I really do. I hope so. People, please go follow Will, go to Will Kingston, put Will Kingston, put the whole full name, go to Fire at Will. and We'll have all the the links below. It's a great podcast. I've been on it. Go check out that episode. Hit the like button and watch another episode on this channel.
00:58:12
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode of Far at Will. If you enjoyed the show, why not consider a subscription to The Spectator Australia. The magazine is home to wonderful writing, insightful analysis, and unrivalled books and arts reviews. A subscription gets you all of the content from the British edition of the magazine, as well as the best Australian political commentary Subscribe today for just $2 a week for a year. No, I'm not joking. $2 a week for an entire year. A link is in the show notes.