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Lauren Goldberg on Working With Your ADHD Instead of Against It, Leading Neurodivergent Teams, and When Overconfidence Is Insecurity in Disguise
38 Plays25 days ago
Lauren Goldberg (laurengoldbergcoaching.com, linkedin.com/in/lauren-e-goldberg/), a career self-discovery and leadership coach for changemakers working with their ADHD instead of against it, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com). Lauren explains why the ADHD label is just bad branding and what leaders can actually do to support neurodivergent team members (00:39). She unpacks internalized ableism and what it looks like to turn down the volume on the inner critic and work with your natural wiring rather than against it (03:50). Lauren and Dan explore why overconfidence and under-confidence so often come from the same place, and how to build confidence that is not rooted in self-judgment (08:33). Lauren describes the exhausting cost of masking and the freedom of embracing the unique shape that school never made room for (13:03). She also shares how she is rethinking her own inner bully and inner best friend language through the lens of parts work (20:24). The conversation turns to the new frontiers she’s exploring in her practice, from nonviolent communication and decolonizing the framework to moving from canceling toward calling people in (24:03). Lauren lays out the crux of Marshall Rosenberg's nonviolent communication (29:12) and closes with book recommendations through a disability justice lens (31:58). Recommended Reading: "Nonviolent Communication" by Marshall B. Rosenberg, "Decolonizing Nonviolent Communication" by Meenadchi, "Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel" by Loretta Ross, "The Body Is Not an Apology" by Sonya Renee Taylor, "Being Heumann" by Judy Heumann, and "Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice" by Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Misunderstandings of ADHD
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey everyone, Dan here. Welcome to another episode of Forward Looking Leadership. Today, I'm honored to be joined by Lauren Goldberg. Lauren is a career self-discovery and leadership coach for changemakers working with their ADHD instead of against it.
00:00:19
Speaker
Lauren, thanks so much for joining me on Forward Looking Leadership.
00:00:24
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Excited to have this conversation and get into some juicy leadership questions. Likewise. So first, what non-obvious things do leaders need to know about working with people with ADHD?
00:00:39
Speaker
So ADHD is often perceived negatively because of its name, the attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. But that's just bad branding, basically.
00:00:50
Speaker
So ADHDers have hyperactive brains, which can appear outwardly or not. And um but think that the the biggest thing that leaders can do is, well, a few things. So first is Like there are some folks who are not open to sharing having ADHD.
00:01:14
Speaker
it's important not to focus on the like getting a diagnosis or ah identifying. You know, some people don't even have a diagnosis. It's just a like a suspect or assume that they have it because it's really hard to get a diagnosis. That's a conversation for another time. But basically, it's important to just focus on what folks...
00:01:37
Speaker
have what their needs are and how to get those
Empowering Team Members
00:01:41
Speaker
needs met. And I think being open to exploring different ways of working, different trying different things so that your team members feel comfortable figuring out a way that works for them and not not putting so much energy into trying to fit themselves into a box that does not set them up for success.
00:02:07
Speaker
So allowing them to be open and exploring like other ways of working, other ways of working together. And yeah, I think just being flexible is the first thing. And the second thing I'll say is for somebody who is, i mean, this isn't just ADHD or this is like any team member, right? Like when you genuinely believe that this person is amazing, has a you have confidence in them.
00:02:38
Speaker
You can see their potential. You can, you just like have that deep belief in them. That comes out in your energy when you talk to them.
00:02:49
Speaker
And that is something that your team members absorb from you, right? As a leader, you want to empower people, but it's it's just some of that comes from the energy that ah is absorbed from you. And there are a lot of people who,
00:03:06
Speaker
like don't believe in themselves until they have somebody who believes in them and shows them like what that confidence in them can look like. So I think that's like,
00:03:20
Speaker
incredibly impactful um as a leader. And so that's not just ADHDers, that's like any any team member, any colleague. And that's something, if you don't feel that way about somebody, i think that's actually some internal work that can be done before working with and communicating with um with those people.
00:03:41
Speaker
yeah. And you you talked about the bad branding with ADHD. What does it really look like to work with your ADHD rather than against it? So first of all, there's a lot of internalized
Internalized Ableism and Self-Compassion
00:03:52
Speaker
ableism.
00:03:52
Speaker
So ableism is this idea or this belief that being non-disabled is a superior way ah being being That comes up in so much of our culture, so much of our language, so much of our the way the world has been designed, the way our working our workplaces are designed, how we run meetings, or just lots of like ways that ableism comes up. And internalized ableism is like, I don't believe I'm good enough because of my ADHD.
00:04:23
Speaker
Or for me, i also um am partially deaf. So for a long time, I told myself, like a my inb bullate my like inner voice, inner critic was saying,
00:04:34
Speaker
you know, you're broken because your ears don't work the way they're supposed to. And that was all internalized ableism. So being able to excavate that and shift that voice or rather turn down the volume on that voice and and shift to more self-compassion is what it looks like to not work against your natural tendencies, your natural conditions, but um working with it, understanding it, knowing what your needs are knowing how to advocate for yourself and knowing what your strengths are.
00:05:11
Speaker
So all of that is really like the magic of not putting all this effort, trying to fit into a box, but rather recognizing what unique shape you are and carving out changes that need to be made to fit you.
00:05:29
Speaker
And when you're working with clients on this and you're drawing from your own experience, having gone through of a version of this yourself too, what what do you tend to work with people on to really shift this?
Lauren's Self-Discovery Framework
00:05:42
Speaker
So everything that I do is, has self-compassion, muscle strengthening baked into it. I have this This framework that I developed that I call the kind, bold, badass framework. And there are three parts of it. And the first part is excavate.
00:06:05
Speaker
So we're exploring like what things have we learned that we have internalized that are not serving us or or you specifically the client? And how can we chip away at that to reveal what actually matters to you?
00:06:21
Speaker
how you actually want to make decisions, like what you base those decisions on because you value them and not because other people have like put those standards on you. That's the first piece. The second piece is invigorate.
00:06:34
Speaker
I'm all about like follow your energy. What would be energizing? Let's come up with an action plan that is, that has energizing next steps to you. As your coach, I'm not going to tell you like, you should do this. I'm not even going to really give you advice. That's like not,
00:06:50
Speaker
what my coaching looks like. My coaching is like helping you discover what what is energizing for you so that you can take steps towards that to achieve your achieve your goal. And it's going to be a whole lot easier to take those steps if you're excited about them than if somebody just tells you to do them, right? It's a lot more powerful to do the work that way. So that's the second part. And then that third part is advocate.
00:07:18
Speaker
So I'm working with clients to build their toolkit so that they can advocate for themselves. This goes for anybody, not just folks with disabilities or chronic conditions or neurodivergence.
00:07:30
Speaker
Again, being able to like recognize what your needs are and then being able to communicate about your needs. So that's the advocacy piece and being able to make requests that allow you to meet your needs while also meeting the needs of others, the people around you, the team that you're working with, because you're all on the same team, right? You're all working together and you all have needs and you're all those needs, not all of those needs, but many of those needs are unique.
00:07:58
Speaker
How can you do that from a place of like kindness and compassion and self-compassion? Self-compassion has some tie-ins to confidence, as you've written about. And there's this ah idea that you have of overconfidence and underconfidence coming from the same place oftentimes, which I really thought was illuminating in some ways of what can present as overconfidence might actually be underconfidence manifesting. Yeah,
Understanding Confidence
00:08:24
Speaker
totally. Can you talk about that a little bit more and how you work with clients on this healthier kind of confidence, this kind of um confidence that comes from a better place?
00:08:33
Speaker
So I'll start off by saying the way that I learned to adapt to a world that made me feel very uncomfortable and anxious and not good enough was by being that cocky snob that was judging everything and every everyone and every moment so harshly. And it was such an energy suck.
00:08:59
Speaker
Turns out that's not a great way to make friends either.
00:09:03
Speaker
So, you know, I look back and I have a lot of compassion for younger Lauren, who was just trying to do what she thought she needed to do to survive and to earn love and to protect herself.
00:09:20
Speaker
Now, looking back, I realize that when I was most overconfident or cocky you know, arrogant is when I was most insecure.
00:09:31
Speaker
And when I was most insecure is when I was most judgmental. If you have someone saying, i don't feel confident in myself. I'm lacking confidence. i just like don't feel good enough.
00:09:45
Speaker
And i need to prove to everybody that I'm confident enough, that I am worthy of love, that i you know, like I'm the greatest thing to walk the earth. Yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
It comes from that self-judgment. That judgment comes from fear, right? The fear of not being good enough, the fear of not being accepted, the fear of not being loved. And so these are sort of like baseline things that fuel our inner voice, our inner saboteur. So that's why I say that oftentimes,
00:10:28
Speaker
underconfidence, lack of confidence, and overconfidence, being cocky, come from the same place. So the work that I'm doing with clients to help them establish more self-compassion, more genuine self-love, and more deeply rooted, genuine confidence that doesn't come from a place of self-hate is like i'm making sure that they are one, able to recognize what those inner voices are saying, what those parts of them are saying, that are making them feel small and where they feel like they need to, where they're either undercompensating or overcompensating and being able to let go of what's not serving them.
00:11:14
Speaker
And like I said, we we work on building those self-compassion muscles. So a lot of that is being able to reframe things and Some of it is unconscious pattern disruption, right? The way that we talk to ourselves are is is a habit, right? And so how we break that habit is creating new associations, new neural pathways in our brains, rewiring our brains, as they say, and and like establishing new habits, right? Because that voice, like the way that we talk to ourselves is a habit.
00:11:48
Speaker
So yeah, being able to shift that voice or fill people's toolkits so that they can feel what they're feeling in their bodies and then react to it with kindness.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes that is a you know, those tools can look like a somatic experience. It could be a visualization that they bring themselves back to It can be a breathing exercise. It can be whatever we put, i we work on that ends up in their stress busting toolkit.
00:12:18
Speaker
So yeah, that's a That's a little bit about the work that I do to help folks with their confidence. Yeah, it's reminding me so much. We had a previous guest, Dr. Jamie Goff, and she wrote a book called The Secure Leader. And she basically brought in attachment theory and this self-worth and all of this kind of stuff into the leadership space. So I'll definitely send you a link to that after. But it's um it's a really important part of this that I think gets overlooked in a lot of coaching, this is This is a really common thing that clients come to us with. And I don't know, some very high percentage of my clients, 15-20% of my clients, I would say, come to me with ADHD or some sort of neurodivergence. And it's um it's a very common thing and I think kind of overlooked and and glossed over a lot of the time.
00:13:03
Speaker
And I feel especially with the folks who are ADHD or neurodivergent and they just... They can recognize, they feel like their brain works differently. They feel like they've learned, especially in like mainstream school where you have to adapt or else, right? There's like ah a right way and a wrong way. There's there's grades, there's um getting your teacher's approval. There's like, it doesn't leave a ton of room for you just,
00:13:39
Speaker
chess explore who you are beyond like what your achievements are, what your grades are, what you're, I mean, maybe I'm just predicting because that's how I felt in school. But, um, a lot of my clients, I think like feel that same way that they just tried so hard and they put so much effort into just trying to mask and a appear that they were like normal not struggling or not,
00:14:09
Speaker
like different. And it turns out that as you get older, i feel like that doesn't really apply once you're out of school, being able to embrace, like I said before, like what that unique shape is that make up is more empowering than trying to fit yourself into this like this box that wasn't designed for you and your unique needs.
00:14:38
Speaker
Thanks for sharing that. No, that seems spot on from everything I've heard from from folks too. And it ah it just feels like a lot of energy and a lot of time and a lot of personal kind of attention going toward this masking, as you said. And how much better is life in the world when you can spend that toward the things that you actually want to be spending it on?
00:14:58
Speaker
What does rejection sensitivity dysphoria mean? And how can people work to have a ah better relationship with rejection? Yeah, so this is a really common experience for folks who with ADHD.
00:15:12
Speaker
And
Managing Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD)
00:15:13
Speaker
it's not a diagnosable thing. It's not diagnosis, but rather a common experience of emotional pain in in response to perceived rejection or criticism or or failure.
00:15:27
Speaker
So that feeling goes beyond... disliking an unpleasant experience of rejection, but like it feels, it can feel intolerable or excruciating. And that's according to very well-mimed.
00:15:41
Speaker
So I do have some tips for helping people regulate that. And that first tip is just being aware that this is this happens to you. It's a tendency. And once you recognize that that's coming up for you, you can like choose to make the shift.
00:15:57
Speaker
right, choose to talk to yourself with more compassion. You can speak out people and experiences that change your perspective, change your mood, change your, you know, reframe um your situation. So the awareness piece is the first piece. I talked about, you know, that inner critic voice and being able to like building your skills so that you can so Which over to that inner best friend, that inner self-compassionate voice, whatever that looks like for you. so I have a lot of clients who answer the question, like, would in this situation, what would a friend say to you that that was experiencing this?
00:16:41
Speaker
And how would you respond that? Or what would a loving friend say to you right now in this situation while you're feeling these feelings? And it can help to actually write it, write it out and see it and feel it and and internalize it that way. So yeah, that's another tool that we develop in coaching and can be really helpful for folks who are experiencing rejection sensitivity, sensitivity dysphoria,
00:17:12
Speaker
I think it's also important to connect with your support squad, whoever you feel safe calling to talk through those feelings of not feeling good enough or feeling rejected.
00:17:24
Speaker
i feel like when I have a hard time remembering what my light looks like when I shine out on the world, like I have friends and mentors that are there to remind me, they're good at reminding me like what but that looks like. um And that can also help me make the shift.
00:17:46
Speaker
I think the other one is this is going to sound really fluffy, but for it i I tell people like so often we are assuming that people, you know, if you're experiencing rejection sensitivity, it's like there's an assumption there that people hate you or people don't like you or people don't think you're good enough. And there's just like, there are assumptions being made there without facts oftentimes.
00:18:14
Speaker
And so who ship that, to turn that around and actually assume opposite, assume love, assume people do care about you and like you, like what will that mean for you? And that can actually just,
00:18:33
Speaker
shift your your energy. For me, like, I was afraid to post on social media for so long. And now I assume that the people who are following me on social media want to hear from me.
00:18:47
Speaker
Like, that's why they're following me. It's just a more compassionate, self-compassionate place to operate from, is to assume love.
00:18:58
Speaker
And again, it that that's like a habit. That we can practice. That's a muscle that we can strengthen. And then the last tip I'll give is just if you have an intrusive thought, like a ah rumination that is hard to break, then you have to interrupt it.
00:19:19
Speaker
Because the spiral, it's so easy to spiral. So how do we how do we stop the spiral? And often we just have to interrupt it. So an interruption could look like changing an activity or imagining the silliest thing happening in a situation, like getting up and doing jumping jacks. like Whatever it is that feels like an interruption so that you can just...
00:19:41
Speaker
Switch modes mentally mentally and physically. That can help break the cycle of rumination and allow you to take a breath, have that awareness. Okay, this is happening.
00:19:54
Speaker
What do I need? What tools are my toolkit to handle this situation? how can I be more self-compassionate? Yeah, those are hugely valuable tips. On the inner bully and the inner best friends, I think that's a amazing shift to make. And I think a lot of people listening will probably get how that can all of a sudden quiet a lot of these intrusive thoughts that they might have about themselves and all of this kind of a thing. Anything more to say on how to make that that shift for people?
00:20:24
Speaker
It's funny that you asked me about that because... I am in the habit of saying like inner bully, inner best friend, because I've said that for so long, but I'm actually shifting my perspective on that as I learn more about parts work, even just labeling the voices, like pre-labeling them inner bully.
00:20:46
Speaker
It is judgmental. It comes from, like it sort of ah puts judgment on it. When in reality, my inner bully voice, just to like use myself as an example, like my inner voice bully voice is often just my sad eight-year-old self.
00:21:06
Speaker
And so for me to like assume that this voice is bullying me and not allow it space to just sort of like be and feel and sort of process it and realize, oh okay, actually, it's just my eight-year-old self being sad that an offering, like going through the exercise of offering love to that sad eight-year-old self, like that feels a lot better than being like, well, you're being a bully and that's not okay and being shameful about it, right? So I'm actually shifting. i'm i'm so in the process of
00:21:48
Speaker
kind of shifting some of that language and and figuring out how to adapt my coaching so that it's not so like hard, like those hard labels that put judgment on it before before we even do anything of the exercise. But I do think, you know, a lot of people, it resonates with a lot of people that they have an inner critic, an inner saboteur, inner voice that sounds mean. So it's, it's you know,
00:22:17
Speaker
It's been easy to call it the inner bully for a long time, but as I'm trying to create more space for non-judgment, that's like one one way that that I'm doing that my in my coaching.
00:22:31
Speaker
And the inner best friend is like, even calling it an inner best friend sort of like separates you from it. And I want people to really internal, like know that that's them. i don't want it to feel like it's this like,
00:22:47
Speaker
faraway thing outside of themselves, that it actually is how they talk, how they love themselves, and how they extend compassion to other people.
00:23:00
Speaker
And like that is true to who they are. So yeah, I'm actually kind of like shifting some of that language, but those you know i think in that rambly explanation, you could probably see like how how we use those terms to recognize what's not serving us and and make the shift towards more self-compassion.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And it hits home for me too, in terms of, you know, how, how we're updating, but how we think about our own practice as, as we learn more and more. So i know that can be a bit vulnerable to share when it's something that you've been working on with, with people and just, yeah, really appreciate you. You're doing that.
00:23:43
Speaker
I've had on previous guests, so I just had on um a guy named Roger Kastner, who was talking about incorporating parts work into coaching. would love for you to share a bit more about how you're thinking about doing that and also any other of these kind of new kind of frontier things that you're incorporating into your coaching.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm actually, I'm not too deep into exploring that yet. That's not one of the things that I am exploring right now. But the thing that I have been exploring in more detail is Nonviolent Communication i Marshall B.
Nonviolent Communication in Leadership
00:24:21
Speaker
Rosenberg. And I actually have read and trained in parts of nonviolent communication back in college, actually.
00:24:30
Speaker
but I had never read the book. So now i I actually just read the book cover to cover for the first time. um That's Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg. I read the book and I was like, wow, this is a leadership game changer.
00:24:46
Speaker
Like I have, I've already been using it in my coaching, but like to eat, to dive in even deeper into it. I'm like, wow, this is really like, this is like shifting, like, into a whole like different way of thinking and like seeing yourself and interactions with the world. And yeah, I just, um so i I do recommend it. i believe it really is a leadership game changer.
00:25:09
Speaker
And i started to question myself because I was like, yeah, I really don't have any criticisms with this technique or this like this framework.
00:25:22
Speaker
And so, you know, I did a little research and I have, I'm about to get a workbook ah called Decolonizing Nonviolent Communication.
00:25:35
Speaker
and that's Minachi. That's M-E-E-N-A-D-C-H-I. so I'm really excited about that because, again, I want to see like what,
00:25:49
Speaker
what is missing here from the nonviolent communication framework and how else can we be making it more inclusive and not just, yeah, how can we make it more, more, ah more equitable framework to use? So I'm really excited about that. I've also gotten like my, my special interest lately has been learning more about cancel culture.
00:26:12
Speaker
And I think people are really, really sick of cancel culture. like It just, it doesn't feel good for anybody. Maybe, maybe like for the person who's canceling or the people who are canceling, there's like ah an initial kind of like, you're not enough for us. Like either you're for us or against us. And there was sort of like an initial sort of dopamine hit from that. But I think in the, I think like long-term it doesn't feel good.
00:26:41
Speaker
So yeah, I've just been, I've been really like, obsessed with that. So now I'm reading the book, Calling In, how to Make I'm sorry, no, it's calling in how to start making change with those you'd rather cancel by Loretta like from the first chapter, I'm like, I'm so hooked. So I'm excited to keep reading that. and so much, so many of the clients that I work with are in social and environmental impact. So many of them are like care about creating a more equitable world, a more inclusive world. And it's hard to build that when,
00:27:18
Speaker
you, we have this very wide gap between like what's acceptable for creating change and what's unacceptable for creating change and not really like bridging the gap between, yeah just having that like black and white thinking you're either for us or against us or you're great or you're terrible. You know, it's just like you, you,
00:27:40
Speaker
People are different. and And how do we work through those differences? And um so, yeah, that feels way better to me for the purposes of like creating social change. That's what I'm um i'm obsessed with lately. Yeah.
00:27:55
Speaker
It's a real humility to that. And I think it's so important to talk with people who we might not agree with. And even if you don't convince them to your way of thinking, that's so <unk>s always an interesting conversation. I think if people are in acting in good faith, at least, I think there's times where it's, okay, this is yeah not someone who is, but.
00:28:14
Speaker
These conversations, a lot of the conversations are just not happening happening because people are putting labels on other people and making assumptions about other people and and refusing to even engage in conversation. No change can happen. No needs can get met by either side or multiple sides because there isn't and an open-mindedness and a a recognition that we're all humans. We all have needs.
00:28:43
Speaker
And how can we work together to to get those needs met? And that's connected to the nonviolent communication. So it's all kind of it's all it's all um overlapping for me right now. Yeah, there's a perfect ideology and lacking and in actual efficacy, I think is a symptom of our time. So yeah just for people who aren't familiar with it, what is the what is the crux of nonviolent communication? What is this um whole framework movement kind of about?
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, so i mean, the whole framework is that we have needs. Everybody has um like basic needs that need to be met.
00:29:23
Speaker
And being able to approach conversations with empathy and understanding and wanting to meet each other's needs, which Marshall B. Rosenberg, like what he argues is that you can...
00:29:41
Speaker
Like you can do that with nonviolent communication. You know, being able to make observations about what's happening without judgment, and without bias, without analysis and evaluation, being able to share more about what you're feeling and connecting it to whatever your unmet needs are. And then making a request that allows you to meet your need without, while also meeting the needs of whoever else you're, you know,
00:30:10
Speaker
communicating with. And then on the flip side, being able to receive criticism and blame and confrontation with empathy, with understanding people's feelings, like doing what you can to understand people's feelings, doing what you can to understand what their unmet needs are and offering help or a solution that says like, hey, we're on the same team. we're not looking at We're not looking at each other like you are the problem, but rather we're looking have the problem together side by side and we want to solve it together. Yeah, and we're on the same team. And again, we have needs that we can both have met through this conversation and and and reflection and then yeah, working together.
00:31:00
Speaker
Yeah. And what's the decolonizing criticism of this, I guess? I so i actually don't, i I'm not even sure that it is a criticism, but it is, it is a, I'm excited to explore that more. So one criticism that I've seen online is that nonviolent communication, it's for folks who are privileged.
00:31:22
Speaker
And
Resources and Connections
00:31:23
Speaker
so I'm curious to explore, explore deeper into that and say well, how can we, can we make it so that that's not the case? And what does decolonizing nonviolent communication look like? I'm so curious. I haven't, I, um, I'm about to get the workbook started. So I, yeah, I don't know, but I'll, uh, report back when I, when I learn more.
00:31:47
Speaker
Well, looking forward to it. I'm going to dig into both of these as well. This is really interesting. In terms of books that you find yourself recommending the most often to others, what comes to mind for that?
00:31:58
Speaker
I'm often recommending books that expose people to disability justice because a lot of the work that I'm doing is through the lens of disability justice and like how we change the way that we work, the how we advocate for ourselves, and how we can think about Careers in a totally like in a different way. That's not ableist.
00:32:25
Speaker
Some of the books I would recommend on that end are My Body is Not an Apology by Sonia Renee Taylor, Being Human a Judy Heumann. There's a book that I'm excited to read called Care Work.
00:32:38
Speaker
And I actually don't have the i don't have the um i don't have the author's name in front of me right now, but that covers like interdependence. That's another thing that I'm excited to read and and have had that recommended to me and is on my list to to tackle next.
00:32:57
Speaker
Cool. Well, we will link to all of those in the show notes and encourage everyone listening to read those. I will definitely be reading those myself too. this has been such a great conversation. Thanks for taking the time to come on and share all of your expertise and your personal experience with everyone listening.
00:33:13
Speaker
If people want to follow along with you, with your work and get in touch if they'd like, how can they do that? My website is laurengoldbergcoaching.com. I'm also on LinkedIn. You'll find me laurengoldberg.com.
00:33:25
Speaker
I'm on an Instagram. You can find me there as well. And yeah, feel free to just send me an email too. You'll find my contact form on my website. I'd love to just get to know people and have conversations and collaborations. And I'm happy to connect with your community, Dan.
00:33:46
Speaker
Great. Thanks so much, Lauren. And would would encourage everyone listening who's interested to to do that. It's a really generous offer. So Lauren, thank you so much again for joining us. This was such a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm happy to to be here with you. And um yeah, just excited to share some of these resources, some of these ideas and and like the messy middle of figuring out like how to adapt our coaching to an ever-changing world, you know? Very fascinating. And I'm on the cutting edge of some of this stuff and looking forward to keeping relationship going as well.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Thanks, Lauren.