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BoardBridge Co-Founder Stephe McMahon on How to Join a Nonprofit Board, Why It Beats Traditional Leadership Development, and the Power of Your 'New Kid Card'
39 Plays13 days ago
Stephe McMahon (boardbridge.com, linkedin.com/in/stephe-mcmahon-3b2750/), co-founder and Chief BridgeBuilder at BoardBridge, which empowers corporate employees to serve on nonprofit boards, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to dig into why there are more than a million open seats on nonprofit boards and how to close the gap. Stephe explains why the on-ramp to board service is so unclear and how BoardBridge lowers the barrier for individuals and nonprofits alike (01:18). He shares his advice for aspiring board members (07:55) and gives a crash course on board service (14:20). Stephe and Dan discuss board service as a form of leadership development, including new Taproot Foundation and PwC research showing pro bono service outperforms traditional training on human skills (17:44). Stephe makes the case for using your "new kid card" and what good governance actually looks like (32:25) and walks through the BoardBridge process end to end (38:10). Recommended Reading: BoardSource's resources and Taproot Foundation and PwC's "Human Skills at Work" report. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to BoardBridge
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey everyone, Dan here. Welcome to another episode of Forward Looking Leadership. Today, I'm honored to be joined by Steve McMahon. Steve is the co-founder and chief bridge builder at BoardBridge, which empowers corporate employees to serve on nonprofit boards.
00:00:19
Speaker
Steve, thanks so much for joining us on Forward Looking Leadership.
00:00:24
Speaker
Thanks, Dan. I'm really excited to be here. As you know, i i shared with you that I'm pretty excited to follow your podcast. And as somebody who's been you know creeping over into the talent development world, ah much more so than ah the corporate social responsibility world where I've been, that's been really helpful and insightful. And I've really appreciated several of the speakers who you've had in the past.
Challenges in Joining Nonprofit Boards
00:00:44
Speaker
Well, we're really excited to have you and especially to get into this topic of serving on a nonprofit board, which I think is something that's really top of mind for a lot of listeners, a lot of job seekers, a lot of professionals. of A cool opportunity and also for people on the nonprofit side of how do we kind of fill these gaps on our boards with really qualified people. You say that there's over a million vacancies on nonprofit boards currently, and that that was shocking to me to hear, maybe not surprising. But what do you see as the cause of this? Like, what's the what's at the root of this, and where does BoardBridge come in?
00:01:18
Speaker
I think there's several different pieces to it. I mean, i think the most prominent one, though, is that the on-ramp isn't very clear. If you want to join a nonprofit board, ah you know where do you start? How do you how do you get from you know being interested to actually sitting on a board? Whereas if you want to mentor a young person in your community, you can pull up Google, you can put in your zip code and mentoring, and you'll get a list of opportunities.
00:01:41
Speaker
And I think part of the reason that the on-ramp is not clear is because we have such a diversity of nonprofits in this country. There are one and a half million of them They are not a monolith by any means. You hear me say that several times probably. But that lack of clarity around what the on-ramp is, is a big piece of that.
BoardBridge's Role in Overcoming Barriers
00:01:58
Speaker
Equally, i think, is a is the reality that so many people don't really recognize what they have to offer and what they bring. You know, we encounter folks all the time who say, I'm just a X, whatever X is. I'm just a financial analyst. I am, you know, just a program manager.
00:02:18
Speaker
And within that, if we start to break that down, there are a ton of skills within that. And that, coupled with people's life skills and their passion, really do bring ah it creates an opportunity for them to bring a great deal to the to the table as board members. So what we do here at BoardBridge is really we meet with individuals where they are, um and we we meet with nonprofits where they are as well. And our our role really is to create that on-ramp, but to do it with two things in mind. One is to lower the barrier of entry for both the nonprofit and the individual, And the other thing that we do that I'm really proud of that is unique about our program is we pair every individual who comes through our our program one-on-one with what we call a bridge builder. And that's really somebody who has done this cross-sector work in the past.
00:03:06
Speaker
Mostly they're people who've been on boards themselves or they're executives who've worked with the board of directors. But they understand what what does board service look like and how does one get on a board. um And for many of them, they only know how they got on a board. So we do training so that they understand that there is a whole variety of ways to get
Diversity Challenges in Board Recruitment
00:03:24
Speaker
on boards.
00:03:24
Speaker
But we do that um to really make sure that people understand that, one, for every person out there who's interested and has things to give, there is a nonprofit out there who could use someone on their board. On the nonprofit side, I think what's equally true is that um while there's no on-ramp specifically for people looking to be on boards, there's not a really clear way of of casting a net really broadly. i mean, historically, the way that board service gets gets fulfilled is that people who are on boards invite people who they know to come and take a space that's vacant. um
00:03:59
Speaker
As a result, I mean, we only know who we know. So for nonprofits, I think there are lots of opportunities for us to really open that up and say, you know, there are millions of people out there who have so much to give.
00:04:10
Speaker
have been efforts around these, this business. dynamic in the past. you know, LinkedIn has a thing. If you type in, you want to join a nonprofit board um and what you're looking for, LinkedIn will give you some examples. The the problem with that has been that historically when LinkedIn has tried to do that, the number of people who want to volunteer skyrockets. And the number of nonprofits who fill out the the supply side of that does not doesn't keep pace. And part of the reason for that is that by the time somebody does respond who's appropriate, that need may have already been filled. So we as a sector haven't really figured out how to crack that nut fully. For us at BoardBridge, we feel like we've cut out a little bit of a sliver where we we walk people through that process.
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, and you can see all of the obvious problems with this being a self-perpetuating kind of good old boys network. And that's what a lot of nonprofit boards end up being, obviously. Yeah, and I think that so many times, you know, the perception that we all have of board members is that they're really old, they're wealthy, they're typically white and male. And, you know When I started my career several decades ago, i think that this was discussed and I think that there was some genuine commitment to it, but I don't think it was anywhere near what it is today. And I think the reason for that is today, it's just so much, the need is so much more pronounced.
Benefits of Board Service
00:05:26
Speaker
I mean, you know, if we're talking about creating a strategic communications plan that really brings in a new generation of donors or volunteers or even recipients of service, like, you cannot talk to the senior vice president of communications, may not be the right person for your board. It may be someone whose early career who, you know, is a digital native, who really understands all the different platforms and all the different vehicles to which to communicate to young people.
00:05:53
Speaker
So that that piece is one example of where the old system doesn't work, but the problem is the old system's what we've got. So I think that there are lots of of activity go activities is going on where people are trying to figure out really what is the the right way to get there. I think one of the things that's really important for all of your listeners to hear and for us to remind ourselves is that um in so many instances, it's not that we don't want X, it's that we don't know how to get X. We don't know how to get there.
00:06:20
Speaker
So for instance, if you look at board source survey material over the last two decades, the interest in diversity on nonprofit boards has continued to go up by both board chairs and executive directors. There's been an increased awareness that we want more diversity on our boards. Do you know what hasn't gone up in those two decades?
00:06:37
Speaker
the diversity on nonprofit boards. So, and and part of that, again, i think you know the vast majority of that is not ill-intended. It's a lot of un unintended bias, but a lot of it also is we only do things the way we've always done them. And we need to change that if we wanna have you know things be different. The good news is that we're in ah an age with tons of disruptors.
00:06:58
Speaker
the you know the reshaping of the role of federal government and then local and state government as a result of how funds get pushed out, you know the introduction of AI, all those things are disruptors that create opportunities for us to really think through, like how are we going to get different people on boards providing different perspectives?
00:07:15
Speaker
So imagine you're on the professional side or you know you're you're a working professional or you're a job seeker who's looking to spend their time serving on a board as part of their ongoing job search efforts in terms of getting around good people, spending their time wisely, contributing their their skill set while they're looking, all this kind of stuff. yeah um And this has been something that has been a game changer for a lot of the clients that I've been working with. And you were gracious enough to talk to at least one of of these people and help them kind of figure out how to go about this themselves.
00:07:48
Speaker
What would you advise someone who was saying, OK, I want to get on a board. I don't know where to start. Yeah. I would say there are a couple things um that are really important. The first is to recognize that there are one and a half million nonprofits out there, and that creates lots of opportunity.
00:08:06
Speaker
So we oftentimes ask people to start with, you know, what are your passions? um Because the reality is, like right now, we want to help wherever we're most needed. But as things get tougher, when there's more required of us, like we want there to be passion there so this that we can get over those obstacles. So what are your passions? Where do you currently volunteer? Where do you contribute financially already? um You'd be shocked at the number of people for whom we have a conversation and they talk about who the nonprofits they are really passionate are, they're already passionate about our, and then we say, have you talked to them about being on their board? And the answer is no. and And again, that's because that on-ramp's not clear. And the on-ramp is not, it's not, there's no one on-ramp. I mean, we have organizations that have really robust, you know, very structured vetting processes to get folks onto boards. There are others where it's, you know, if you go and have coffee with the board chair or the head of the governance committee, and you talk about the skillset that you have to contribute, and if it aligns with what they need, you know, they present at the next board meeting and you're you're on the
Navigating Board Structures
00:09:07
Speaker
board. um So again, it's that lack of clarity, I think, that that leads to people not knowing what to do or how to do it.
00:09:14
Speaker
But I would say that the key things to do are really to ask yourself, what are you most passionate about? And then the second piece is to make sure that you really are aware of what it is you bring to the table.
00:09:25
Speaker
Again, so many times we discount who we are or what we've brought to the table. So, you know, if you're if you are an early career communications professional who has always worked in social media, I mean, you have lived and breathed social media your entire life, just recognize that that's a very different perspective than somebody who's been in the career in the workforce for four decades. And that could be an asset. It doesn't mean it's an asset automatically, but making sure you know that. Like, you know, what is your family history? What is your life history? Are you a first-generation college kid? You know, lots of things that we think of as as burdens um end up being assets on nonprofit boards. How you identify demographically. um there Again, we talked about the that increased desire for for diversity among board chairs and executive directors, and yet the needle not moving in terms of diversity. I think that lots of times it's folks who just haven't figured out what is the way to get there. And I want to be really clear. Some of these things are not rocket science. It's not like, you know, these people aren't smart enough to figure it out. It's this thing in a laundry list of 5 million things that need to get done as the the folks who are running nonprofits. especially This is especially true of smaller nonprofits. So for them to get into the granular pieces of figuring out how to get over some of these hurdles...
Corporate Support for Board Service
00:10:40
Speaker
They're smart enough to do it, certainly. It's a question of time and capacity when they have so many other things to do. So if you can show up with with clarity, like this is who I am this is what I have to offer. I think also you alluded to, you know, being clear about what what it is that you want out of it it is equally important.
00:10:58
Speaker
You know, you referenced, you alluded to people sort of either building their network or, or you know, getting out there more. i mean, we were working with a company that has hired us because part of their partner track historically was that people, if you were going to be a partner in this firm, you got onto to nonprofit boards because that's how you got known in the community. Well, post-COVID, that pipeline just evaporated. And the culture internally around how that happened isn't clear.
00:11:25
Speaker
um So now we're working with this firm that has said, look, we have here are all of our folks who are on the partner track. And again, they're all in the same boat. They're like, oh, i I get it. I understand why that's important and why I should want to do that. I don't know how to do it. Oh, and by the way, you know q one is insane for us. So I really am not going to be able to spend a ton of time doing this work.
00:11:46
Speaker
that's great for us to know. We can make sure that we don't do a lot of work with them in Q1. But when Q2 hits, you know, we've said, based on everything you've told us, here's ah here's a panel of five nonprofits, based on where you've given in the past, based on your passions, and based on the skill set that you identified, two of these five have said this is specifically what they're looking for.
00:12:05
Speaker
And doing that legwork, again, is all about lowering the bar of entry for folks who are interested in nonprofit service. Yeah, it's just ah really great shifts again of if you're feeling like you're not a traditional kind of a nonprofit board member that you might really have some assets here that could work to your favor on this and that could really benefit the organization and the cause. And then this real if you're even just a ah kind of regular corporate employee or an executive and this can seem kind of like a world removed from you, but bringing this back to this idea of community service, community engagement
Essentials of Effective Board Service
00:12:37
Speaker
is is really important.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. i think I think too that, I mean, again, if if a company is supporting this as well, being clear about what does the company hope to get out of this is equally important. um And, you know, we are all about transparency. You know, we are really clear. If this was really super simple and it was like, here are people in column A and here are nonprofits in column B, there wouldn't be there wouldn't be a need for anything in this space, right? People would just do it.
00:13:05
Speaker
as we've already alluded to several times, like the on-ramp's not clear and what somebody needs today, what an organization needs today may be radically different from what they need 18 months from now. And in that dynamic shifting of what's needed, it makes it even harder for individuals who wanna make it a commitment.
00:13:23
Speaker
But when we can show up and we're clear about, like, here's who I am here's what I have to offer, here's what I hope to get out of it. Oh, here's how my employer engages in this space with me or not. um And then we bring in the perspective of here's what the nonprofits need and want. And by the way, here's what they have to offer to you as well. i mean, it's...
00:13:42
Speaker
It sounds overly simplistic, but it really is all about just doing the Venn diagram and and carving out a piece that's manageable as opposed to starting out with one and a half million nonprofits, which is just over overwhelming, obviously.
00:13:55
Speaker
I imagine there's a number of people watching or listening who are thinking, this sounds great. I would really like to become part of a board, but I want to make sure I'm doing it in the right way. I want to make sure I know...
00:14:08
Speaker
What I'm responsible for, what I'm supposed to be doing, what are some best practices for this? If you were giving somebody kind of a crash course on nonprofit board service, what would you say?
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah, well, I would say there are a ton of resources out there, and I don't want to dive into all of it you know in this limited amount of time that we have, but like, board source is is one that we direct people to often. It's this organization that really focuses on best practices and governance, recognizing the diversity of the nonprofit sector. So I would encourage people to take a look at that. um As I said repeatedly, there are one and half million nonprofits. They're not a monolith. There are very few absolutes that we have about board service. But here here's one I will share with you, which is that if you're exploring board service, you want to make sure that the organization has directors and officers insurance. The vast majority of them do.
00:14:58
Speaker
And if they don't, you should say to them, if you're still interested in joining their board, that you would want to join and that you would you would pay for that as your first contribution because it's not expensive, but it is so important for organizations and for everyone who's already on the board.
00:15:11
Speaker
then The other piece I think is really to know that there are there are three primary duties under which all the other duties um fall, which are the duty of care, which is saying that you would do what any prudent individual would do to direct the the operations of the organization. The duty of loyalty, which says you don't have a conflict of interest while you're there. While you're there wearing your board hat, you are there solely and exclusively for the well-being of the organization. And then the duty of obedience, which really is just your commitment to to go along with everything that the board has agreed to and to to support the organization and its mission going forward.
00:15:46
Speaker
So those are sort of some of the the primary pieces I would focus on. um And again, happy to share other resources um with anyone who's interested. Yeah, those are great resources and I think a great kind of primer for people in joining this. On that insurance, what what is what happens when you don't have that in place? I have some imaginations on my end of this, but what happens when you don't have that Yeah, i mean, there's there's liability there's personal liability for nonprofit board members if they are aware of the organization's
00:16:19
Speaker
performing badly. um But it has to be pretty egregious, to be honest. I mean, I can only think of two examples that I'm aware of. You know, one of them was ah was a senior living facility where individual board members were were held liable for damages that were, you know, were pretty severe when they were, you know, repeatedly at meeting after meeting after meeting and talking about the fact that they were providing substandard care and did nothing to address it. um So they were aware of it and sort of ignored it. I mean,
00:16:49
Speaker
i'm I'm assuming they didn't ignore it. I wasn't part of their deliberations, obviously. But like they had documented that they knew there was a problem and yet didn't address it. It's the same as managing, you know, any sort of HR function. Like, you know, we have to we have to support people and we have to document that we're following the rules. And if we document that we're not following the rules, we need to rem it document the remedy that we've done. So that would be an example. But It has to be pretty out there. There are good Samaritan laws that protect in most instances, but I'm not a legal expert. So and just use that as a as an example.
Learning Opportunities in Board Service
00:17:23
Speaker
No, it's great. Thanks for sharing all of that. You alluded to this at the beginning. We've talked about this before a bit, and I find this fascinating of um board service as a form of learning and development.
00:17:34
Speaker
That's not something that people might traditionally think of as kind of traditional leadership development course or training or that kind of a thing, but it can be really powerful. How do you think about that? I think that you know there's ah a breadth of different learning and development opportunities available to people. My experience has been that that there's a whole array of those that fall within the service, and by service I mean like volunteerism, that kind of service, in that arena that some organizations acknowledge and sort of get, um and that others, I think, unfortunately miss out on too often. um
00:18:07
Speaker
PwC and Taproot Foundation just this past March released a story ah a piece of research called Human Skills at Work. And they found in their research that on an array of human skills, like not tech skills, because we've all spent a lot of focus on tech skills and developing those, but on an array of human skills, they found that pro bono service outperformed traditional learning and development 70% compared to 58%.
00:18:34
Speaker
And some of this is inherent, right? Like when you think about it, it's like, well, of course, if i if I need to figure out how do I work with people on different teams and different functions, if I work solely in my business unit, getting on a board of directors with a group of people from a lot of different companies and different perspectives, inherently, that's built in. There are other ways, though, that we could be more structured about that, right? Yeah.
00:18:55
Speaker
So for instance, you know, if in succession planning, you know, we're looking at someone who has really amazing financial acumen and is really great at the book, at the bookkeeping side or at the keeping the books and the spreadsheet, but nessa isn't necessarily as good at framing those conversations as strategic discussions for people in other, other business units or other business partners. um Board service is a great opportunity. If you end up on the finance committee of a board, you know, where you're like, I've got the numbers, I get them, like I i really get them deeply.
00:19:26
Speaker
But like translating those into English for the rest of us on the planet and vice versa, taking the strategy conversation from the board meeting and making sure that that information gets fed into what the finances look like so that when people are looking at spreadsheets as part of their board report, they're saying like, oh, this really does speak to our strategic initiatives or doesn't. And if it doesn't, then like how do we remedy that? um So there are these real-life experiences that can that are inherently within board service, but others that can be built upon with really way less risk oftentimes than what what happens in the workplace and also with greater benefit to the community at at large. So I think that's like one example that I would give of how board service can can be a benefit.
00:20:10
Speaker
But the same is true of you know pro bono service or skills-based volunteerism. you know, where people tap into, you know, the skills that they have, where they may not be able to to really use that muscle day to day in their job, but at a nonprofit where that muscle is absent, um they're able to flex it pretty, pretty powerfully and grow it with feedback from, again, a diverse group of individuals who are their peers on their board. um There's a lot of that can that can happen inherently, but if we were intentional about it, it could be even more amazing.
00:20:41
Speaker
I would argue. So there's there's so much here to to cover with it. There's something about something being real and being not this kind of like made up scenario
Corporate and Nonprofit Sector Synergies
00:20:52
Speaker
based thing that I think is particularly interesting about this for learning and development of this a real group of people. It's not one of these like simulations or something. It's not one of these like made up case studies. You're actually part of working with a group of people who are not people you would normally work with on new and novel challenges and giving back together and growing your network and all of this kind of stuff. and I think there's there's something very real there.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And like, in addition, i mean, there's so many other pieces that are being addressed at the same time, right? I mean, we live at a time when, you know, we are all starved for connection, we are starved for purpose. So like, it's this perfect storm, if you will, of, you know, you're instead of doing a simulated exercise of some sort, like getting into the weeds of a real, a real,
00:21:38
Speaker
issue that matters um and having impact while you're doing it, I think is a really powerful piece of this. And and I think that all too often the you know, the resources for these things exist within so many of our employers. I mean, the talent development folks, you know, are oftentimes in a very different vertical than the corporate social responsibility or the employee volunteerism folks. Um, And figuring out how to create an opportunity for them to speak is really challenging. Everybody in both of those verticals has very little staff and very much to do. It's not like anyone's sitting back eating bonbons waiting for somebody to come hand them a solution. But, you know, we started doing this workshop with some other intermediaries called The Human Edge that was designed specifically to address building these human skills
00:22:23
Speaker
And one of our our corporate partners that we work with, the CSR head there, she's one-person shop at ah at a Fortune 50 company, brought one of her talent development folks with her. And afterwards, she said to me, you know, we we have had a conversation I've been trying to have for nine years. And she's you know she's like, I've had tried to bring this to them, but I haven't known how to frame it. So when I bring it to them, they look at me like I have three heads. Whereas in the talent development folks, you know, don't aren't aware of all the offerings that do exist within this employee volunteerism realm.
00:22:54
Speaker
So now those two have had subsequent meetings already and are talking about ways not just to do board service. I mean, they're talking about, you know, manager training. They've built in some team building activities that are a service initiative where they're having an impact in the community while they're doing this team building as opposed to doing a ropes course or whatever other thing.
00:23:12
Speaker
team building they would have done. So I do think bringing together these two fields and having conversations is really critical. Obviously that needs to happen more and more internally. um And if people have advice on how to, how to crack that, then not, we are all game, but we're excited about where we've seen this go and we expect it to take off more.
00:23:32
Speaker
yeah Speaking of bringing together two different worlds, you're at this interesting crossection of or intersection of the private sector and the nonprofit sector. And I think these are more interconnected than people realize often perhaps um here. But what what is it that you think private sector thinking, so to speak, can bring to the nonprofit space? And what do you feel like nonprofit sector thinking can actually bring back to the the private sector?
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i i think that they both have a huge amount to give to the other. Again, neither is a monolith. And I think that part of the the big problem is that, you know, our our little human brains can only manage so much. So as a result, I think that we really try to put things in categories. So, you know, one of the examples we often share is that when people talk about, you know, people are really interested in volunteering with Habitat or being on Habitat for Humanities board, and we may find out there's not and a vacancy on their local Habitat chapter board. You know, for some people, that would be the end of their board service. And we, and in our efforts, we say, well, what was it about Habitat that you're most passionate about? Is it affordable housing? If it's affordable housing, here's a list of 20 other organizations that do affordable housing. And the vast majority of the times that we do that, the people who we work with had no idea that these organizations existed because they weren't high profile.
00:24:51
Speaker
But the work that they're doing could be just as meaningful. So I think part of this really is about people widening their aperture and understanding a little bit more about one another. i think one of the things that would be really beneficial for nonprofits to understand is that seniority does not necessarily parallel board service, high quality board service. That it may in fact, again, using the communications example, it may be an early career or mid-career person who's had a ton of experience with social media or with ah you know digital communication who can offer so much more to what you're not what your board's trying to tackle than you know the senior vice president of communications. And I think that that paradigm really needs to be challenged a little bit.
00:25:32
Speaker
And it's not easy, but that's one that we need to do, I think. So for context for those listening, Steve and I first met when our grad school class was doing a project with his former organization, Break a Difference, which does similar thing with BoardBridge, but with um volunteering opportunities for corporate employees and connecting them with these nonprofit volunteering opportunities.
00:25:52
Speaker
Steve, what is it that companies that get this kind of thing right, that really understands the potential and the power of volunteering for their own employees, what do they get right that that others who kind of do this in a more performative way or a more kind of, you know, but they don't really get it fully do? Yeah. I feel like there are a lot of organizations who do not have honest conversations with their nonprofit partners. i mean, that to me is the the big crux of the difference, right? Where they say, you know, I would much rather work with an organization that says, hey, we're bringing people into this conference. They are going to be here for a day and a half, and we've carved out 35 minutes for them to do a service project.
00:26:35
Speaker
would much rather know that going in than, you know, we are coming in, we have 1,200 people coming for our conference, they're passionate about housing, or whatever the issue is, um and then trying to dive into that.
00:26:47
Speaker
I think that, I mean, there are lots of different parameters. um And when people enter, you know, the the arena, if you will, you know, being honest and open about what their limiting factors are, but also what they want to get out of the experience, I think we all we all do better.
00:27:02
Speaker
And I think that many times nonprofits assume, not all, again, it's not a monolith, but many nonprofits assume that they have to say yes to every nonprofit ask because then they can end up having a relationship. When in fact, some of these are not, they're not relationships, they're transactions. And we need to differentiate between the two. And there's room for both provided both parties agree to them. I think that where we end up in trouble is organizations who think that they're coming with a relationship and what they're really offering as a transaction and vice versa. And my experience has been that when people are clear about that and they're clear about what they what they hope to get, and you know even pie in the sky, like dream big, saying, look, I know this isn't really likely, but what we really like is to end up with with some of your employees who better understand our work and who wanna join us on an ongoing basis.
New Member Contributions to Governance
00:27:49
Speaker
We can have the conversation about whether that's possible or not. i Again, I think that so much of this interaction is is transactional without taking a step back and being clear about why. so there are all these assumptions that go in. And I think those are the places where it gets challenging. So the organizations who really get it are the ones I think who say,
00:28:10
Speaker
you know, we have a diverse workforce, some of whom are going to want to do a lot of this, some of whom want to do none of it. um And we are going to try to carve out different opportunities where it makes sense with nonprofits who really want to help out with that. And I think that there need to be some asking some questions. You know, I see, I often see see LinkedIn posts or elsewhere, you know, sort of slamming the painting of those, the walls at a nonprofit as a bad thing.
00:28:36
Speaker
And i'm I've seen examples where people talk about, you know, we painted the same wall six times over the course of the school year. Like, yes, that is problematic. there are There are thousands of nonprofits out there who cannot afford to do the building maintenance that they need. There are thousands of nonprofits out there who defer maintenance or who do not do general up upkeep because they can't afford it. And if it corporate groups joined them and said, how can we do budget offsetting efforts as opposed to how can we keep 30 of our employees busy for two hours on next Tuesday reading to little kids? I think we would do much better.
00:29:10
Speaker
So I think that that both both sides of that need to need to know what they're really good at and need to really respect what the other's good at. you You've talked about how nonprofits are not a monolith, and this is something that is continuously surprising to me just working in this space of how many different nonprofits there are out there, how many different types of nonprofits there are out there, and really just exposing people to more and more of these. It's not just the big household names that everyone thinks about. You mentioned Tabitat for Humanity. That's a great organization. they do lots of great work, but it's not the only one that's doing
00:29:45
Speaker
even something in that exact issue area, nevermind across the spectrum of issue areas. right How do you kind of help people expand their thinking in this? Like what what what is out there in the world of nonprofits that people don't typically think about?
00:30:00
Speaker
I think that part of this really is helping people to understand, like, what is the nonprofit sector and and what is it that I'm personally most passionate about? And again, lots of people can't articulate that, but we can start to ask questions. You know, do you care about puppies more than you care about climate change?
00:30:19
Speaker
If you care about both, that's okay. But if you had, if I gave you a $100 bill and you had to give it to one, you couldn't split it 50-50, where would you give it? Those are the kinds of questions that we can ask people to help figure out. You know, get that that spectrum from 1.5 million down to maybe a couple dozen. um And it's okay to not know.
00:30:37
Speaker
i think that's the other thing that's really important in all this is for people to understand, like, If you're a corporate volunteer going into service of any kind, if you're gonna go volunteer in a skills-based event where you're like, I'm a communications professional, I'm gonna help.
00:30:50
Speaker
Like knowing that you don't know everything about the nonprofit you're gonna go in to help is really a great step because you don't, it's impossible to. And it's okay to not know. Having that awareness and being comfortable with that is really key.
00:31:03
Speaker
And to bring it back to board service, I would argue one of the things that we we try really hard to do is to encourage people when they go, in addition to walking people through the on-ramping process, we provide training. So people, when you step onto a board, you know, here's what's expected of you as a board member.
00:31:20
Speaker
And even in those organizations who do a ah robust orientation program, the the vast majority of onboarding for folks is really them sitting and listening and sort of absorbing the culture of the board. And we encourage people to not do that.
00:31:36
Speaker
Like you, if you're joining a board today, like you have a new kid card that's only good for a few months.
Vision for Corporate-Nonprofit Partnerships
00:31:41
Speaker
And good governance looks like a diverse group of people coming together and really hammering through some of these issues together and coming to consensus about what's best for the organization. That's what good governance is. And your new kid perspective great.
00:31:55
Speaker
it is by definition going to evaporate. um So we really encourage people to ask questions when you go in. And sometimes, you know, that it won't be a pivotal moment moment. But at other times, you'll find out like, oh, two or three or four other board members who've been on the board for a while have had that question, but haven't really asked it for a variety of reasons. So I think really ah a big piece of this is just knowing going in that you have a lot to offer, but also that you have a lot to learn. And those aren't mutually exclusive.
00:32:25
Speaker
That's super refreshing. And it's something I hear a lot about from executives who are working with boards is that there can often be these kind of dominant personality types on boards who can make it seem like their way is the only way and that they know what they're doing and nobody else does. And it's so not often the case. And it's it's actually detrimental to the governance of the organization. And that's a really cool perspective, I think, for people joining a board of like, no, you're not yeah the new kid in a bad way or the new kid in a good way. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really important too to remember, like, again, like you know, keep beating this dead horse if it's not a monolith, but the reality is, you know, even ah today's board at at the Acme Foundation is radically different than the board six years ago because of term limits. Like, things change. And, you know,
00:33:10
Speaker
there are people involved. And wherever there are people involved, we're going to have negative aspects of this as well, right? Like you mentioned the domineering personality. Like we have to deal with that in our workforce. Like we have to deal with that, you know, at the at the pickup at school. You know, there are all these places that we need to need to use these skills. And the boardroom is no different. What I think is different is recognizing that you have a benchmark to be able to go to to say,
00:33:34
Speaker
wait, wait, we wait, wait. What good governance looks like is all of us having different perspectives and addressing this. So I appreciate, you know, x that this is what you think, but there are other people who've said why. So how do we get to a place that really informs how how the organization gets governed? That That is good governance. And we really try to instill that so that people feel more confident um using the new kid card when they're new kids, um but then also i'm speaking up when they're in a minority on a board from ah whatever the topic is.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's it's a again a hugely valuable perspective for people to bring on to their board service. What do you see as the ideal future for how this shapes up for the the kind of corporate employees being engaged with nonprofits? Like, what does this look like in in the in the the dream future here?
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i I think that, you know, uncertainty has hit so many organizations, both in the private sector and in the nonprofit sector. So I think that this is a really huge opportunity for us to sort of go back to basics. I feel like as we're talking about this, I i feel a little vulnerable that like, and you know, I'm saying like really obvious basics, like the Venn diagram of what what's good for the individual, what's good for their employer, or what's good for the the nonprofit. But the reality is those conversations don't happen. mean, if you're in the third or fourth or fifth year of of a program running a skills-based volunteer program or a board placement, like I think sometimes we forget to take a step back and be like, well, wait what is it that you really hope to get out of this? And to you as the nonprofit, what is it that you need?
00:35:13
Speaker
from that. So I think that that taking advantage of of the fact that we like we've all been living with uncertainty for a while recently, and it's pretty clear the uncertainty is not going to go away. So let's go back to basics and ask some of those questions. And I think that the best The best relationships are those in which people feel confident that they can share what they really need or want. And and it requires some vulnerability. i think that that that that's key. But i I also think, again, assuming that we don't all have the answers,
00:35:45
Speaker
I often say when I'm talking to folks about BoardBridge, we don't do arranged marriages. We are much more like a dating app. Because you may be the most amazing person in your field, but if that's not what the organization needs right now, it's just not the right time for for you to join that board, or that's not the right board for you.
00:36:01
Speaker
I think that especially with high potential folks, one of the things that happens is, you know, we're not, it's not often that we apply for something that we don't get, right? In terms of leadership development or in terms of, you know, contributing to the community. So to make sure that people understand, like, this is about really figuring out where's the right fit today.
Resources for Aspiring Board Members
00:36:18
Speaker
And we don't have a limited pool. i mean, we do, it's not infinite, but it is much larger than you think it is. So let's figure that out and let's try to find where's the best space that really works for you.
00:36:29
Speaker
You mentioned some resources earlier in terms of um how people can get up to speed on being an excellent board member. Anything else to share on on that or any other kind of resources of any sort that you point people toward for board service?
00:36:43
Speaker
Yeah, well... for For board service, I think that um you know if somebody really wants help figuring out the mechanics for themselves, i mean, we certainly would love to be helpful to them in that. But if what you really want is content and research on what's meaningful, I think board sources is the go-to for that. there They're really the gold standard. They're great. really appreciate what they do. I think in that realm of skills-based volunteerism, which...
00:37:08
Speaker
a buts board service in many ways, especially for those folks doing this within the corporate service and initiative arena. um The Taproot Foundation does some really great work and they're coming out with research all the time, but they're also practitioners who really help to figure out like, how do we map?
00:37:25
Speaker
the skills that that you as a talent development professional are charged with, are equipping your folks with, how do we map that to a real service project that has impact in community that really matters, um but that really does develop that skill as well.
00:37:39
Speaker
And we've been doing more mapping, you know, some of the skills in the World Economic Forum Future of Jobs Report to to the type of board placements that work. And they're doing the same work, I think, with skills-based volunteerism. So those are two resources I think are really, really valuable.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It's always a good sign as a leader, I think, when people can share, you know, if these are other groups who are doing great work and these are kind of a gold standard on this, then go and check them out. So it's ah it's a really good sign, Steve.
00:38:07
Speaker
Thanks. We try. Steve, really tactically, how to let's let's imagine that I'm an individual and I want to join a board. What is the whole process here? How does BoardBridge basically do this from from start to finish? Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, you know, what we would do is we would know if you're coming to us through your employer, we'd know what your employer's goals are, obviously. But if you're coming as an individual, we would work with you to say, you know, what is it that that's brought you here today? um And then we'd help to massage from you some answers to some really basic questions. Like, what are the things you're most passionate about? What are the issues that you give money to currently or where you volunteer? we would ask you, have you talked to those folks yet at all? Oftentimes we find that people, you know, want to serve in the arena that they're giving their dollars. And for some reason, there's this gap that between their perceptions of themselves and their perceptions of who served serve on the board of that organization. And sometimes it's accurate and sometimes it's not. Yeah. So we flush that out a little bit. um Our intake procedure asks people to help. We walk people through their identifying their own skill sets as well as their interests and passions. um And then we try to figure out like, what's the kind of board that you want to be on? Do you want to be on a governing board? Do you want to be on a working board? Is it better to be on a committee? Do you want to work on an international level? Do you want to work really micro in your neighborhood? I mean, there's ah again, there's a wide diversity of nonprofits out there. And we we try to break that down with people and for people.
00:39:33
Speaker
At that point, we then go and do some research, and we'll come back to you with a panel and say, Dan, here are a few organizations we've thought of. There's no skin in the game yet. You don't have to commit to anything. But here's, based on what you've said, what we heard, and what we've identified, which of these make the most sense? um And at that point, we'll articulate what the onboarding process is. And again, for some of those organizations, it's you meet with the executive director or with the the board chair and have a cup of coffee and figure out whether you are a good match or not. At others, it's a very formal process. We do a lot of research, though, on each of those organizations so you can make an informed decision.
00:40:08
Speaker
So, for instance, if you want to join the Acme Foundation and we find out that they have a $100,000 requirement and that's outside of your realm that we can take them off the list, but then we can start to dive in. What was it about the foundation that you really loved and help you to figure out are there other organizations in that space? And we, you know, we don't know all one and a half million nonprofits out there, but we have, we have ties to lots of them. And through that, those networks, we can drill down pretty deeply, pretty easily and make that more simple for you.
00:40:38
Speaker
And for people, you know, anyone listening could take any aspect of this and and workshop it for themselves. I would just encourage them again to think through like, who are you? What do you want to do? And why? and then what do you have to give? And that last piece of what do people have to give?
00:40:54
Speaker
I would really encourage people to not undersell there because it's what we tend to do as human beings. How do you think about these different kinds of boards? You mentioned the governing board, the working board, the committee. What what are the what are the different kinds of like pros and cons of each of these if you're thinking about this as someone who's interested in this?
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that you know figuring out what your drive for doing this is. So you know I'll just use some examples. If you're somebody who's tutored somewhere and you love this organization, but you want to have an influence on thousands of young people, so you want to get on the board of of an the national organization that's doing this work, you're not going to be in the weeds, right? It's going to be much more of a governing board, helping the organization to scale and build capacity to be able to deliver in lots of other places.
00:41:38
Speaker
On the other hand, if you're really wanting to do something hyperlocal, and you're trying to work with a organization that's either, you know, in startup mode, or is just beginning to get its legs and start to move from, you know, the board of founders, friends and family into ah its first governing board, that's, that's still doing a lot of the work, You just want to make sure you're aware of that. You want to know what is the time commitment you're able and willing to spend. How often does the board meet? You know, are you expected to be on committees? So I think part of it is, I mean, it's not a simple matrix, but part of it is just slicing and dicing a little bit to get at what what are the pieces that that feel right for you. and then i think that playing that off with some other colleagues who are who are doing board service might be helpful. Or, you know, again, people can reach out to us. We're happy to help people.
00:42:27
Speaker
parse out which is the most appropriate for them at this phase of their career. It makes total sense and appreciate that offer for people. So I imagine this answer is perhaps a bit different depending on on who we're talking about. But let's say that you're either an executive of a a company and you're you're saying, okay, wow, this sounds great. I want this for myself or want this for my employees. Let's say that you're a talented development person. Let's say that you're actually someone who wants to volunteer on a board. How do they get in touch with you and your organization? Who are you really set up to so support here, to work with here? How does that all kind of work? Yeah, absolutely. um So, you know, we're at boardbridge.com and people can just fill out an intake form there. But I'm also on LinkedIn and, you know, I'm really committed to this work. um And when I say this work, I mean the cross-sector growing the capacity work. um So that doesn't have to be through us. So if people are are you know interested in this and have questions about any of the things we've talked about, be happy to have conversations and help to direct people to other organizations that are doing this work um or in their own community if they're looking for a local piece that could be better suited to serve them. It doesn't have to be just the board bridge model. But if somebody is an employer and they're really interested in helping to figure out ways to get their people more involved in community as either a talent development strategy or as I i shared with one example, as ah as a networking, you know, real networking as opposed to going to coffee hours, we're happy to to be there and to serve in that role. And people would just reach out to me. i'm on LinkedIn. As you know, I spell Steve weirdly. It's S-T-E-P-H-E. So like Steven with a P-H, but without the N.
00:44:06
Speaker
happened when I worked at a homeless shelter 35 years ago and it's just stuck. um So I'm on LinkedIn or people can find this on our webpage. Well, thank you so much, Steve. This has been super informative. Thank you for your generosity and sharing all of this knowledge and information with all everyone listening. I bet there'll be a lot of people who are interested in either bringing something like this into their organizations or in pursuing this kind of a path.
00:44:28
Speaker
themselves. So really appreciate it And thank you again. Well, thank you. And thanks for opening up the, you know, one more avenue to sort of bridge these two worlds. i appreciate it. pleasure. Thanks so much. Thanks too. right. Be well.