Transcript
Speaker: I can vividly remember messaging him being like, what the hell have you done? Why did you do this to me? How am i ever going to recover from this?
Speaker: Hello, friends. Welcome to Tabletop Changes, a podcast about running tabletop RPGs, writing stories, and the sometimes meandering paths we take in pursuit of creativity and inspiration.
Speaker: Tangent number 18, harrowed or wholesome?
Speaker: It's a very clever title. wow. Thanks. appreciate it. I wonder who wrote that one. don't know. Somebody. The title debates, I think, are always kind of fun. Sometimes they're very obvious. Last few, I don't feel have been obvious at all, which I think is kind of a good thing.
Speaker: Okay. We have a discussion. We come up. Yeah. And, you know, then these are DVD bonus features is what were the other titles? sure Well, we didn't we weren't recording then, so... No, I know.
Speaker: But I mean, this would be on the commentary track. Uh-huh. Sure. So it's been like two weeks since we've had a podcast. Yeah. Part of that is because... um We've had ah the Sizemore household has had some drama, not drama, but yeah planned drama. let's say Life things. We've had surgery. And so I've been caretaking and it's all going pretty well. Not perfectly, but pretty well.
Speaker: And the doctor's not worried. So all is fine. And, uh, but I was kind of, at least for a week, I was kind of out of it. and then last week we had technical issues where Chris could not log in and we could not record. Yeah. And the nice part is we found out that it wasn't necessarily my internet. We get to blame the recording stuff that we use. So it's yeah their fault. Yeah. Yes. That makes us all feel better.
Speaker: It does. It does. Oh, okay. Okay. Right? Yes. Blaming the the tools. Let's blame the tools. Okay. We're blaming the tools. Yes. Yes.
Speaker: So we are back and um ah ah we had ah the idea of doing some talk about Deadlands because Deadlands for Savage Worlds and before or for Savage Worlds, it was just Deadlands its own system.
Speaker: um that was pre before that was before I got into it. Um, I was into it after it had turned into Savage World. So I'm not familiar With the old Deadlands system, the Great Rail rail war Wars and all that stuff that predecessed Savage Worlds. Are you, Chris? I am, actually. I did that was i started with ah OG Deadlands. and when i've when I've talked about this subject before, I'm very, very happy to admit that when I played it then...
Speaker: And this kind of goes into what we're talking about ah tonight, but in my own personal interpretation, i absolutely played the game wrong. I mean, I followed the rules as written and did everything and did the system. And it was a very fun system. And i have respect for Deadlands Classic. And there are still people who play it today.
Speaker: um but I realized well after the fact that the way in which I was playing it was not at least how I spiritually felt it was intended.
Speaker: And so then when I picked it back up, when it was Deadlands Reloaded, that was when i sort of changed my approach to it and then have, I guess, re-fallen in love with what it is and what it can be. Well, I would like to hear more about that.
Speaker: But okay um because I wonder what it was that you didn't feel was Deadlands and now what it was what it is that you think is Deadlands now. But um yeah, the the basic point here is to talk about running Deadlands, the the scope of it. And um what what you can do with it and what it what it allows for, what it what it's built for, what it's supposedly intended for, all that stuff, and how you can just completely ruin it and mutate it and and make it unrecognizable. Yeah.
Speaker: and and to And to be clear, we were talking about the OG Deadlands, not Noir, Hell on Earth, Lost Colony. Yes. Right? We're just sticking with Deadlands. Yeah, we're sticking with the Weird West yeah at this point, I think. Perfect. I mean we've got we've got a big old...
Speaker: Super special Savage Worlds Deadlands event coming up here in October where I'm going to be running games. Daryl's going be running games. Caden will be running games. Shane will be running games. It's it's pretty star-studded event for a Savage Worlds setting and ah you know get together. I think now,
Speaker: i think And um it should be very cool because when you get a whole bunch of dedicated Savage Worlds players in a room, there's nothing quite like that.
Speaker: And so I'm very excited about it. So that was partly what brought this on. The other part is that my adventure for this event is not finished yet. So this is the, this is the thing that gets me, gets gets under my butt, you know, and gets me working on it. So there it is.
Speaker: So anyway, yes, go ahead. Are we going to have a, a tangent, a, a, a segment that is like a think tank almost, that would be kind of cool.
Speaker: Ah, you mean like for like idea generation? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Well, the problem though is i already have the idea. and want I don't want to spoil things.
Speaker: Fair. Fair. Right. Because I mean, some people care about that. I wouldn't necessarily, but i don't know. see that kind of thing is so interesting to me because i to me, i mean, one shots specifically But i think campaigns on a greater scale, depending on if it's a published adventure or not, can also have this happen. But like every time you run and an event or anytime you run a game,
Speaker: and it's the same written adventure or same thing that you have created, i feel like it's a different experience every time. And I, I think that I'm probably a good person to make that comment because of how many times I've played in Chris's events over and over and over again.
Speaker: yeah i i mean, I agree. Some people are just real sensitive to the idea. for sure. Yeah. they They want to experience it for the first time and all this. and Not, not, not that it's crazy.
Speaker: cool or there's a big revelation. Like Han Cluster is a little bit more like that. Like there is revelations that I kind of want to keep, you know, non-spoiled if I can.
Speaker: But with this one shot, it's really straightforward, but yeah it's also like, oh, I want you to experience it for the first time. There's stuff that you don't know what's going on and I don't want to spoil that.
Speaker: yeah so So there's that. I do have the ideas in place. It's just the, I have not solved all the problems yet. oh Oh. So we can do that privately if you want.
Speaker: yeah yeah yeah ah Anyway, so let's get back to Chris's thing. Yes. Tell me about old school Chris Hussey running Deadlands and and the new and improved Hus. So the the the TLDR version is, um in the when I originally ran it, I didn't fully embrace the horror, eerie, creepiness aspects that I think are just very, very ripe in that setting to be taken advantage of if you want to do it.
Speaker: I think that to to get into a much longer winded answer, a lot of it had to do with, I think I approached the classic in...
Speaker: Best way to describe maybe the in the style with which I was familiar with, with games that had monsters in them and making it more of, and don't want to say a dungeon crawl because that would not be correct.
Speaker: But it was definitely, there was no mystique to the monsters. Maybe most of the week kind of thing? Yeah, sort of. or they were just there.
Speaker: There was no preamble. There was no setup. There was no um detailed description as to how horrifying these things can look and appear. Like I just didn't didn't really...
Speaker: embrace that at all. um And i can't, I can't tell you what flipped that switch, but for some reason, when um when, I, when I started playing it as Reloaded, I realized that that potential was there to, that that element in itself, just, just being,
Speaker: Creepy in in the scary sense, not in you know not in the leering sense. yeah you Although that is also creepy in itself, I suppose. But um like there's ah there's there's there's a lot of gold to be mined in there where you can get into the player's heads um with that. And I think that with so many of the ah the critters in...
Speaker: um in Deadlands, you have that opportunity to to do that. ah And so, yeah, I just... I enjoy it much more now because of that factor than would never, I can never think of playing it the other way. Like it does like, that doesn't make any sense to me now to try and do it that way.
Speaker: the The way technically could the the previous way. Yeah. You know, like this is this, we're in the, we're we're in the the old West and it's, it's more not campy, but.
Speaker: No, but there's, you know, there's there's the longer shadows at at night and there's just the absolute darkness, um you know, of any town that is that has, you know, no light pollution.
Speaker: And the weird sounds and the howling wind, even, you know, very simple things like that. Yeah. It's... For me, that's a tough balance. And I call it i call it the the balance between horror, humor, and history is is what you're trying to deal with in Deadlands.
Speaker: Because... Without, I mean, we've talked about it, I'm sure. I know I've talked about it on on Savage Interludes, probably on Designing Problems as well, where horror lands much more powerfully when there's a break ah between the the dread.
Speaker: Like you can build the dread, but you have to have a relief valve. Now that could be humor. It could be just lighthearted. It could be just like a moment of normality um between the dread buildup and the horror revelation and the catharsis of actually revealing the horrible beast that that is stalking you this whole time.
Speaker: But um without that relief valve, ah it starts to become samey. And I liken it, I think I've also said this before, I'm a lighting designer, right? There's something called color fatigue in lighting design, in in aesthetic design in general, right? So if you have a whole, if you want to say, I want to make a night scene, make it blue, right?
Speaker: Make the night scene blue, great, but after about 10 minutes, it becomes white, right? They don't register this as a night scene anymore. They just register it white light because they're not seeing any contrast there.
Speaker: They're not seeing the amber of the morning come in or or the difference between day and night. They're not seeing that that that difference between the practical light coming out of the window of the house that's warm from the lamp that's inside versus what's outside.
Speaker: All they see is white light. And so this is the same exact thing. If it's all horror, all the time, constantly, um people will tune out.
Speaker: they'll they'll start to They'll start to just become, it'll become the new normal. yeah There's nothing scary about something that is scary all the time. Exactly. Yeah, who just you get used to it.
Speaker: Yeah, and part of it is also that where where I've run into this, that that balance I think that I feel has to be carefully thought through – if if If it's so bad, if it's really that bad, if it's if it's just like, I don't want to go out of the house kind of horror, then how do people live?
Speaker: I mean, how do how do people survive? Why don't they just all give up? Right? And so, ah because i felt this as a player where it's so ah
Speaker: oppressive, right? That I like, well, geez, you know, mean, it takes an act of heroism just to step outside the door, which is maybe part of the point, but it also wears you down as a player when you feel like, okay, well, we're going to step outside now. So now, now we're on our guard constantly.
Speaker: Whereas if there's nothing bright or light or something to fight for there, there then it's hard for me as a player to be motivated to do to do the fighting.
Speaker: There needs to be things presented to allow you to put your guard down. Yes. So that you can be raised again in some sort of some sort of scary fashion. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah. I think so. and that's That's my feeling. And i think that's I think that balance may be different for different people. But... Yeah, that's I've run into that with deadlines where I'm like, wow, how do you normal extra survive in this world where I'm barely surviving when I step outside the door and I'm in a wildcard veteran adventure, you know? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So i don't know. that's That's just something that that comes to mind in in my experience. But that said, the horror is real. That's part of the setting, at least at least as written. You don't have to run it that way. Even a lot of people just run it as ah as an old west setting and love it that way.
Speaker: i mean You can definitely turn the dial down like that for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And you can just run it as a true grit kind of – you know Rooster Cogburn and and Maddie and doing all that. But but there's more to it.
Speaker: And I think there's more richness to it when you start to add in those weird supernatural elements and the whole backstory of the of the hunting grounds and the deadlands and the and and the servitors and what's going on there.
Speaker: So, okay. So that's a little bit of a segue in this where I want to kind of get Dodd's opinion on this on the player side. Could be, obviously, if you're if you're starting up a campaign, you need to discuss a little bit with your players.
Speaker: where do you Where do you want to, what number do you want to try and settle at on that dial um when it comes to, you know, figuring out, Like how mundane do you want to make it? How fantastical do you want to make it? Because yeah, you could get into things like the servitors um and stuff that is really powerful on that scale, but you don't have to, you know you can still run a very satisfying story that does have some supernatural scary elements yep with some good stories and story arcs being told without even venturing into that territory. Yeah.
Speaker: um The last campaign I ran was very much like that. i didn't I didn't deal with the servitors at all. and just you know There were definitely powerful people and they had super some supernatural abilities, but it stayed...
Speaker: In Deadlands, it stayed fairly mundane, I would say. But, you know, i don't know, I guess to you, Dot, like where, you know, where do you sort of, where do you sort of fall on that? Like desire wise, like what are you looking for when it comes to campaigns or or how would you articulate what what it is that you want? Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I mean, the simplest answer is i've I've had two characters that have ah been identified as Creepo and Creepo 2.0.
Speaker: So i think on a sliding scale, i'm i'm definitely leaning towards the high end. um I do like an exaggerated creep factor. i think...
Speaker: that's, that's just buy-in for me. And it's something that I can attach to as a player. i will amplify it. So if you give me something creepy to work with, I'm going to lean in and bring it even more forward.
Speaker: Um, because, because I just, I like that. Uh, but I also agree that there is a place for it. I think that,
Speaker: like you were pointing out, if it's all creepy all the time, there's no, there's no breath. There's no let down essentially. And you're just amplified the entire time. So it doesn't feel like you're successfully going through an adventure. it's I'm just in survival mode and I don't know if I can keep this up anymore. Right. um
Speaker: But, you know, in, in those moments when there is a really good, like creep factor reveal, or you have that one character that just does something so off that you're like, wait wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought that we were fine. I thought we were good. No, you're part of the problem.
Speaker: Crap.
Speaker: i thrive on those moments as a player. So me personally, i really like those larger or or more exaggerated creepy moments.
Speaker: have... i have
Speaker: I want more exposure of that. Like, I feel like I've got Chris's creep factor pretty much figured out. I know, i know where the benchmark is and I know how high it can elevate to at this point.
Speaker: Um, Tracy, I would need you to run more for me. I mean, where we're at in Han Cluster right now, like, what we're dealing with was definitely my jam. I was i was digging it. I'm like, this is good stuff.
Speaker: Yeah. it It gets better. I believe you. I believe you. So, like, I'm here for it. But, you know, like, i've I've gone through degrees of horror, right? And...
Speaker: Although that was entertaining and I enjoyed it. i didn't feel creep factor. Like I was like, okay, yeah, this is, you know, we're going up against weird shit as teenagers, as, you know, college kids. Like yeah that's, it didn't land in a way for me that I was like, whoa, this is spoopy. I'm digging it. You know, like there were certain parts that I, that,
Speaker: from an entertainment perspective, i was absolutely bought in and the people that I was playing with out it definitely had an impact on that, but it didn't, it didn't give me the, the creeps like I wanted it to. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Okay. Challenge accepted. Yeah. i want I want to play in a like deep horror game. I want i want it.
Speaker: And I kind of also need to finish writing one in order to be able to, you know.
Speaker: hor And horror is a tough genre. It is. It's it's tough. And it's... to really walk in the line. You are. And the GM can put a whole lot out there. But if the players aren't going along with what's being presented, if they're not suspending that disbelief, then you then it doesn't it just it ultimately doesn't work. And and i think that's where...
Speaker: you know we've talked about another podcast and maybe even here too, but that player GM trust is, I think, paramount in, because the PCs have to go put themselves in positions of danger.
Speaker: and, But if you don't trust your GM, then you're going to be reluctant to do that. no yeah Because you you you you have, even though it's ah just numbers on a piece of paper, you still have self-preservation aspects. You don't want that character to die.
Speaker: um So you're unwilling to take, you can be unwilling to take risks if you're not, you know, if you don't sense that trust. And it's the other way around too, being the...
Speaker: the GM has to trust his players to go along with this and also to present him with the opportunities or present to the GM with the opportunities to to create more situations of trouble.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's that is tricky. and And I've run into situations, especially when Shane's running. Shane really does ah embrace the horror of deadlines. I mean, he that's it's his setting. He does it his way. And he's gone so far that that it's not even self-preservation for me.
Speaker: Like, ive I know how he runs and I know what I'm in for. Therefore, I make my characters in a certain way, right? Like the last one I made to play Red Tide, I made her to survive.
Speaker: And it was deliberate. It was like, okay, it's just not I had specific things that that that made her survivability go higher.
Speaker: Just because i knew that that was a thing. Not necessarily because I want her to not die, but because i I have fun when I play a character who does not die. but But there's other factors at work there where Shane has a history of if you if he presents you with vulnerable NPCs somewhere, like somebody who's not ah to your level of of being able to take care of yourself,
Speaker: you You mean the NPC that i always fall for? Yes, that's the one. He has a history of of putting you in a position where you have to either make some kind of tough decision whether whether to protect them or by staying with them or protect them by going out and getting the thing, right? Getting the bad thing.
Speaker: And it's really hard to make that decision. He does that all the time. and And I've i've grown a leery of it, meaning that I'm aware of it.
Speaker: And so he's trained me to the point where if you leave these guys alone, you're asking for trouble. And that that that's almost as bad, if not worse, than self-preservation of my own character.
Speaker: Because I'm like, oh, these people were very nice to us. These people put us up when they didn't have to. These people are some of the good ones. They have not been broken down by this by this dread that seems to encompass the entire town, right?
Speaker: I want to save them. I want to protect them. And he makes it very scary. Very scary. And that's part of the fun of it. But it's also like, wo man, I've been trained.
Speaker: to be, you know, to to have to be clever. And sometimes I don't feel clever, right? So that that's another aspect of horror that works, but can be but is really riding a line because it's if you do too much of that, you start killing people that ah that have taken care of you. the the only The only people who are doing the work besides you You know, everybody else is cynical and protecting themselves and out for the number one, right? But these people have helped you. When you start killing those people, that's when i check out.
Speaker: So, and, and, and that's, that's why it has to be like this balance and you have to be really careful about that kind of stuff because, and, and. You have to be careful about the ones that you kill. Yeah. Where you know, you you know what your players are willing to deal with and not, not willing to deal with. dot Dot wants the horror, but I'm sure that there are points where Dot will check out and say, no, I don't want this horror.
Speaker: Well, i mean, you bring you bring up an excellent point, which is somewhat tangenty, but also relevant because, you know, we wanted to talk about like tricks for different spooky elements. And i think a big part of that goes back to knowing your players, because, for example,
Speaker: Eric from resting glitch face, our GM, uh, and gamers table. Um, he knows me and my fears very well. So,
Speaker: You know, there is a scene it's been released um for the beginning of season three of RGF where he is describing these like inky black worm like things.
Speaker: And that is an immediate ic for me. Like it creeps me the hell out. I left the room. Like I left the room from where we were recording and had my ears plugged because I couldn't listen to him describing it. And you can hear on the unedited raw, you can hear me in the background being like, is it over yet? And Sid saying no.
Speaker: and then me being like, okay, I'm leaving again. And, and I'm, I'm in a different room. And You know, another instance was we were playing Tales from the Loop and he decided to throw mannequins at us. We've we've got this horde of mannequins that are just like slightly. mo He made a point to say at one, like one of us made a check or something and he made a point to acknowledge that one of the mannequins looked slightly shifted from where it was the last time we looked back that way. And I was like, no, no, I'm done. I don't want to anymore. i don't like this.
Speaker: And that again, what that's one of the weird things that just I don't like. um And, you know, so having a GM that can also play to the things that creep you out more yeah is also an amazing skill to have. It is. i that's ah Cannibalism is one of those things for me.
Speaker: I can really get skeeved out by it and it really bugs me. the the The hard no for me with cannibalism is when my character is is ostensibly forced into it.
Speaker: That's where I will say no. That's where I'll hit the X card. Right. But... The whole the flood and the whole stuff in Deadlands with Reverend Grimm and Lost Angels is amazing because it hits that creep factor for me in just the right way. like it's And Shane knows it, right? He knows it. He knows this is a thing for me. And I've talked to him about it. I'm like, this is my this is my favorite part of Red Tide because of this.
Speaker: And it's also the thing that is so close to being walk away moment for me. And yet I love it. I can't look away. See, and I think that this is, it's this, those kinds of things that yes, give a backstory for your character, but you also in this type of thing, you need to give a little bit of backstory for yourself as a player so that the GM can know
Speaker: Not necessarily how to push those buttons, but to what degree to push those buttons, you know, and finding out those details. Because is it is it cheating in a certain way to do something that affects you personally as a player?
Speaker: Absolutely. But if you're doing it to elicit a result from that character in this situation, i don't think it's cheating at all. I think that it, because you you you want a certain thing to happen in a certain inner scene.
Speaker: I want Dot's character to be affected in this scene because of maybe something else with her character. So yes, should you have mannequins built from worms in that scene? Absolutely should. Yeah.
Speaker: Nightmare fuel. And then let, because you're going to get the character reaction you're looking for. It's through the player in maybe not necessarily the the most ideal sense, but yet at the same time, it kind of is, you know.
Speaker: And now yeah then if that man worm mannequin is then eating another wormed mannequin, now you have the cannibalism thing going on. So now we've got both of you you know yeah so good times good times yeah my my the the three big ones are are that mannequins worms and mazes like the feeling of being lost or you know expressing a you don't know where you are or where you're going and the way back doesn't make sense either nope is that a nope nope like
Speaker: Udex Card Out? those are No. Or it would be the thing that it's really close to what it thrills you and yet you're repulsed by it. All three of those things. i've I've said this on multiple podcasts. All three of those things are fair game for me.
Speaker: i won't X card any of those things, but I will visibly become creeped out like it it will affect me. And you just got to deal with it at that point.
Speaker: Yeah. And that that's the same with cannibalism for me. And and some people will be. uncomfortable with that and that's fine, right? If you want to push push it there, i especially if you tell me up front, all is well.
Speaker: It's all fine. But it also is like, yeah, this is this gets me into that horror porn kind of aspect where i can't look away, but I i i i can't go forward.
Speaker: And i want I want to run away. it's It's the same reason I talk myself through horror movies. I'm the worst person to watch a scary movie with because I can't not talk through it.
Speaker: Like, I have to verbally and consciously convince myself that the thing that I'm watching either isn't real or has an explainable way about it.
Speaker: Because otherwise I do actually get scared. There have been a couple of times where I've where i've been watching movies sitting right here. and like my dad or Magnus will come around the corner. And I like I jump. I get scared because I'm so immersed into the movie.
Speaker: Because i'm i've I've focused in. And then, yep, that everything else around me kind of blurs out.
Speaker: So that's, i mean, just so everybody knows, we did a great horror episode on Savage Interludes. I don't remember the number. I'll try to find it. But we had Shane on for that one. And it was really good. We talked about building dread, this whole thing about strategies, about how to pull it off in a tabletop setting. Because it is not easy to do.
Speaker: But... There's one thing about Deadlands that always seems to, often seems to come up, and that's the the Blazing Saddles references. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think Chris has has experienced this more than any of us, probably because he brings it on himself. I do bring it on myself, but see, that ah i'm I'm trying to be preemptive, and as part of my con event Deadlands spiel, when I'm talking about bennies and how you can earn bennies, and there's humor that you can do that, it's...
Speaker: And I would do this at a fantasy table with Holy Grail. You get a couple of Blazing Saddles references that'll get you a Benny, and then I got to cut you off. I know that they're going to happen. And I also know that I'm probably going to be one of the guilty parties engaging in that yeah because i just can't help myself.
Speaker: But... And to my own detriment, but I know other people are going to do that. And so, you know, and it's it's just it's one of those things, you know, you you you have to acknowledge it um It's there.
Speaker: And you know go with it. If if it dan fits not if it's not Deadlands, it's going to be Tombstone, most likely. you know And that's okay. and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No.
Speaker: And even in Dark Ages when we were at it, there was plenty of Muddy Python rest and finish. That's how it works. It's okay. And even with the creators, it's okay. But at at a certain point, like, okay, now now we're serious.
Speaker: now this is and now And it's up to the GM to kind of set that mood and say, this is okay, now this is actually happening now. you know things are Things are getting ugly or whatever. But but yeah, I mean, ah humor' we our humor with Deadlands is often ah the result of one of our players, Mike, doing something completely off the wall and insane. Yeah.
Speaker: Like turning a literal two sentences in someone's adventure into an entire night of of adventure because he decides he wants to get past the fence and... You know, the NPCs don't want to let him pass. And it's it's this whole thing.
Speaker: He'll do crazy, crazy things that you don't expect. And it'll turn into three to four hours.
Speaker: And that's our humor with Deadlands. But anyway, so so I don't know. i It's that balance between – and then the history. The history is also an aspect of this that I think is worth talking about. Oh, gosh, yes. Yes, please. Because some of it is really sensitive and some of it is is is is hard, hard history.
Speaker: And how you handle that is tricky. Yeah. It is tricky, and I think this also becomes a situation of where where you need to know your players and where their tolerance level is.
Speaker: um
Speaker: But yeah i think you're doing, to a certain extent, you're doing a disservice to aspects of American history at the time, which, of course, obviously a lot of this is based off of.
Speaker: if you don't acknowledge it in some capacity. And that doesn't in that what that some capacity is is up to you and your table, I think. and And it doesn't have to be very, it doesn't have to be overt.
Speaker: It doesn't have to be in your face. But um in fact, i my preference in, I did this several times in when I was doing Young and Holt and then in my last campaign,
Speaker: ah that I had in person, I was just very subtle about it. they're in And there's instances which might be a little bit more overt, but there's also was a few conversations where I just kind of kept it as part of the conversation.
Speaker: and I don't even think my players picked up on it that with certain things that was happening. um And it's not just, and I know that the game itself addresses this, but ah it's not just some of the the cultural aspects.
Speaker: part of it But also that, you know, when it comes to ah gender issues, there's that aspect as well. You know, I had um one of my players was playing a female character. And so, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: She ran into some misogynists during the game, for sure. But I allowed the player to I knew what they wanted to get out of the scene.
Speaker: And so absolutely, I'm going to do what I can as the GM to engineer that conversation or that scene to go that player's way. you know um That they're the bad guys, right? but Yeah. I mean, if you're going to run into people like that, probably the best way to do it in a way that's dis satisfying for everybody is to make sure that they are the bad guys.
Speaker: ah once you it it It gets trickier once you normalize it. Once you start to go, okay, this is this is just everyday life for you. And now it becomes not fun.
Speaker: Right, exactly. And that's that's what I mean about the over... i see i just i think
Speaker: I just, I don't think that there's a lot of, unless you've got some really just bizarre group and you want to just do some sort of hardcore investment into it. Yeah. I don't think that there's really a good way to go about doing that. Yeah. um But I don't know that there's much benefit to be gained by it, really. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Unless you're making them the bad guys. And it's just saying, okay, I'm getting a rise out of you. I'm pissing you off. And now you can do something about it. Have fun. you knowd Punch a Nazi. Go ahead and have fun. Give land to the Irish.
Speaker: You know? Yeah. There's your one Blazing Saddles reference for this. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's tricky. And it's it's it's kind of one of the reasons that i avoid historical settings so that I don't have to go in wading into that thicket um as much as I can.
Speaker: what what i What I definitely don't avoid, and i and I really leaned hard into it in this last campaign, was historical characters and and finding...
Speaker: individuals here and there that um you could adapt and put into, you know, so their actual personalities. And so whether or not the players realize that it's there or that you're using that particular character.
Speaker: But I think that there's definite value in doing some research into the just people of that era. What were they like? And Deadlands does this anyway, but you can massage that character's personality to fit the game that you're doing. But there's still someone rooted in that history that is worth doing. And it's fun too, because a lot of times it's it You get those situations where the truth is stranger than fiction. Oh, yes. And that what these people did is, you you you you know, if you made it up, they wouldn't believe you. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. that's It's all over the place. All over the place. The other thing is about the history, it's not just the people. It's what they did Like, how they handled train robberies. What did they do to prevent them? What did they do to...
Speaker: to ah get out of them, right? Like it's fascinating um some of the stuff that they did. And because of the technology that was available and the limitations of it and and the the ingenious ideas and and methods they have of dealing with particular problems, the more you know about that,
Speaker: And the more you ah discover about those kinds of ways of life things, those slices of life in the Old West, can really lend as... as Chris likes to reference all the time is that believability, that verisimilitude your game because it's like, oh okay, right, that makes sense. But there's also a danger of going too far into it where all of a sudden the things that they actually did aren't as fun as what you could do in this fictional setting. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: There's some people who did amazing things who are as absolute pieces of shit for sure. But sometimes going too deep into the history is boring. And sometimes you just have to say, okay, a weird skinwalker attacks you or whatever. like I mean, do some weird stuff because that's what it's leaning into the supernatural aspect of. And we haven't really touched on that too much, but we but leaning into that folklore type Old West
Speaker: um stuff that the that Deadlands really leans into and this aesthetic that Shane has created um creates something much, much more than just a o an old West setting.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And ah there's there's richness to be mined there. Oh, for sure. I suppose. one of One of the other things I do want to go back to when we're talking about um creating the horror experience or the horror just vibes or whatnot, or getting people into that mode.
Speaker: um And I know that you have opinions on this too. So that's why I'm part of the reason why I'm bringing this up is that Making a nod back to our premium experience episode. You know, things, mood lighting, um ambient music, sound effects.
Speaker: cu Yeah, custom bennies, even the cool little, like you had mentioned before, Tracy, the Marshalls star. The Marshalls badge with the with the bullet hole in it. yeahp Yeah, and using those as just little hooks to kind of help the players get into things. I think, you know obviously, you can you can go really far with that too, but um I don't know. i think I think it's something worth pursuing.
Speaker: Worth pursuing, yes, but again, it depends on your table because I'm one of those people, as you so kindly led me up to um that gets tremendously overstimulated by stuff like that. Like...
Speaker: I remember during the hustling campaign, you had music playing in the background and I had to mute it every time because it was almost like I couldn't hear what my own thoughts were, plus what you were saying, plus what anybody else was saying. And I lost focus on what we were trying to accomplish. So like,
Speaker: Aesthetically, yes. I see how it can be a cool thing. You know like the Deadlands Noir event that you run, having a clue.
Speaker: You dressing up makes sense. But... it It depends on where you're at and and how you're running the game.
Speaker: I think that's the biggest thing. Like if if I'm if we're playing over discord and there's supposed to be music happening in the background. Well, ah that's going to pull me out of it more than it is going to immerse me.
Speaker: and And to be fair to the outside, in my last Deadlands campaign, I did, I had a Weird West soundtrack. I played it, had it going on in, had a little Bluetooth speaker, but
Speaker: I bordered on messing with the volume too much because at times I felt it was even a little bit too loud for me and this main speaker was pointing away from me. So that would, so there was, I couldn't find like the right spot to put it in nor the right volume to set it at.
Speaker: And so, yeah, it can become a distraction if you're not careful. I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm on the hook to, to do something special for the deadlines event.
Speaker: And I've got just little things so far. I've i've got to decide now if i want to order something special, but I, I'm trying to convince myself, like the most, most people are coming who have signed up for my game, want to play a Tracy cake.
Speaker: That's what they want. And whatever that Tracy game is, is is it has to be me. That's the important thing. the The scenery and if there's a train or whatever I've got or whatever, that's that's bonus, but it's not the core experience. So I'm trying to...
Speaker: Keep myself in mind of that for this because they are, i mean, they are paying a lot of money to be there and it should be a premium experience and I'm going to do what I can. But at the same time, and almost it's more important to me to get the adventure right and to make it a game that, that ah that a Tracy game that you would run, it that you would play at a con.
Speaker: first then i'll worry about the rest of it right you got you got space for to be cowboys that's what i always oh yeah but i always tell people about deadlines it's it's always going to go longer than you think it is if you don't if you don't figure in space to let be cowboys i don't know what it is about the game you know ah maybe it's because everybody's just used to fantasy so it's like oh i've got my dwarven fighter okay everyone knows what that is but no if i'm a fucking cowboy man i need time to be a fucking cowboy i know but that's the thing that's that's the thing and it wasn't me
Speaker: I mean, that's good advice. I'll keep it under under advisement. And I do have a plan. I do have a plan to to to have little moments like that. Yeah, they're just they're sitting there and thinking about themselves. Am i a long coat cowboy or a short coat cowboy? yeah What color is my hat? What does my holster look like from my hip? It's so freaking sexy. and you know and I got got my boots on you know It's just like the 80s song. I want to be a cowboy. You know which one I'm talking about. Sid knows which one I'm talking about.
Speaker: Yes. i don't know. It's just, it's it's a weird, it's a unique thing to Deadlands. Good advice. Yeah. It's good advice. Chris before mentioned in passing Young and Hold, which is his Deadlands campaign. Yes.
Speaker: And is that is that's on what? Is it on YouTube or is it ah is it a podcast? It is ah it was ah an actual play podcast. I believe it is still, you can still download it. Yes.
Speaker: I'll find a link. i'm i'm I'm just going to say, like, Young and Holt, aside from Chris starting, helping with editing RGF, Young and Holt was my introduction to Chris and I's friendship. Because i would message him after listening to several episodes, and and I would, I was, i was fangirl. I'm sorry, it's just the truth.
Speaker: And... I can remember and I'm not going to spoil anything, but there were like three pivotal scenes that i can vividly remember messaging him and being like, what the hell have you done?
Speaker: why did you do this to me? How am i ever going to recover from this? And like, aside from my own shows, because I can't, you know, I gotta, but it's probably one of my favorite actual plays to listen to. And I have re-listened to it and I enjoy it every time.
Speaker: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. The first, I will fully admit from, from the editing standpoint, the first couple episodes are both very long and rough, but it does settle down pretty quick.
Speaker: um And it gets, it gets much better. And, and truthfully it's, it's now with the way that some of the um audio editing software has improved, the thought has crossed my mind to just sort of re-upload some of those things because there's a lot of hiss in some of those early episodes to get rid of a lot because of the way in which we were recording it um to get rid of a lot of that stuff and then sort of like remaster but yeah
Speaker: um And then Halloween. Halloween 5, I think, is coming up at the end of October. um And they have links to sign up to run events. And eventually you'll be able to sign up for games. I am not going to be running anything at Halloween.
Speaker: the The jury is still out whether I'll even play in Halloween because I've got a huge October. I've got Deadlands event in person. I've got Gamehole Con two weeks after that.
Speaker: Boof is still going to be kind of recovering. And so I don't, I'm not going to commit. I'm not thinking about it. Yeah. And I know some people in the, in the, it's free. good about it too Yeah, it's free and it's online, all online. So if you want to play with some Savage Worlds peeps, that this is a good opportunity to do that.
Speaker: Thanks for hanging out with us. Whether you're behind the screen, at the table, or lost in your own story, we hope you found a little inspiration. If you enjoy our tangents, be sure to connect with us on Discord and follow us on socials to keep the conversation going.
Speaker: Until next time.
Speaker: One of the books that I read last year was probably like the most Deadlands book I've ever experienced. It's called Red Rabbit by Alex Grecian.
Speaker: It was so good. yeah I've also read that good book. Damn.
