Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to Tales from the French and Indian War. I am your host, Jackson. And I am your co-host, Matt. And we are back in the thick of the 1758 campaigning season. We have covered the siege of Louisbourg. We have covered the Forbes expedition.
Speaker: And now we are returning to that familiar ground of upstate New York, honing in on the Battle of Fort Guerrillon in 1758.
Speaker: yeah Also known as the Battle of Fort Ticonderoga. Yes, yes. Different names for the same ah little bit of land. We saw a bit of that in the previous previous episodes.
Speaker: For example, the lake to the south of this fort is known to the French Lac Saint-Sacrément, Lake of the Holy Sacrament. And then the British call it Lake George.
Speaker: We see it's known as Lake George today. No wonder, considering who won the war. All right. Well, should we just jump straight into it, Matt? do you say?
Speaker: I think so. this This battle is pretty large, as we'll see. It's going to be both the largest, I think, a number of men involved and also the largest of casualties in the entire war. So this will be a pretty pretty massive clash that we'll see here.
Speaker: Yeah, I think, ah I feel like ah for a few episodes in a row almost, we've been breaking the the record for how many soldiers on the field, how many men are fighting. And of course, today we're going to be breaking that again. So Louisbourg took the number one spot, but this will be overshadowing the troop count and casualty count at Louisbourg. So a lot of fun stuff to talk about today.
Speaker: First off, a little bit about Fort Carillon. So if you guys remember, The British have been have set their sights on Fort Carillon and Fort Saint-Frédéric behind it, further to the north, for, well, this is going to be the third, I guess technically the fourth year of combat, 1755, 56, 57, 58, now we're in.
Speaker: So for four years, they've had controlling these waterways that lead essentially from Montreal down to New York City as one of their objectives. They have been unsuccessful so far.
Speaker: Fort Carrion is one of the newest French establishments in the area. It was established in 1755. So right as the war was kicking off in earnest, Fort Saint-Frédéric to its north was a little bit, it had been there for some time.
Speaker: But Fort Carillon is a fort made just for this war, just for the strength and the French hold on that frontier region. And this is located, well, in the modern town of Ticonderoga, where Fort Ticonderoga is, which of course goes right on top of it. But this is in that area that is right in between Lake Champlain and Lake George. So very crucial waterway here in between these two large lakes, long, long, narrow lakes that, of course, in this time, everyone's traveling on water. So if you control the waterways, you're in a great position.
Speaker: Now, on the British side, we've got Abercrombie as the general. leading the the charge for the British here. He's got with them, I have, Matt, maybe have more precise numbers, but I have at least 15,000 men split between regulars and militia, which is the largest assembled at this point.
Speaker: Matt, do you have chance of any more precise numbers? The number I had was 18,000, still, mean, it's a range, and you know that was of regulars and then provincials and rangers and natives Perfect.
Speaker: Perfect. Yeah. So huge force for proportion. Remember that the Battle of the Monongahela, Braddock's defeat, the British advance column had, i think it was 1300 total, and the French and natives had about 700.
Speaker: And that was a pretty large battle, very consequential, but that is extremely small fraction of ah the troops that the British are gathering now in 1758 with the full might of Pitt's colonial policies in swing. The focus is on North America and it's showing in the mustering of forces under the British here.
Speaker: Seconding Abergrombie George Augustus Viscount Howe. I don't know if Viscount is pronounced. Viscount or Vicomte or... have no idea how that's pronounced. In head, always pronounce it Viscount, so we'll go with that. That's probably laughable pronunciation, but neither of us know any better because we're amateurs.
Speaker: Anyway, ah so Howe, Lord Howe, we'll call him. He's just 33 years old at the time, and he is the the real key figure of this army. Abercrombie might have the top position to be making the calls, but it's going to be Howe that is actually executing the plans. And above that,
Speaker: He actually has the the personality and the charisma and the leadership qualities that make soldiers want to follow his orders and and do so gladly.
Speaker: He is, Wolf had referred to him as the spirit of that army and the very best officer in the king's service. Now, Wolf, we talked about him, and of course, in the the Siege of Louisbourg episode. He didn't, from what I know of him, he doesn't strike me as a super humble guy, but for him to say that, like,
Speaker: Yeah, Lord Howe, he was the very best officer in the King's service. That that says something. And in the French too, they had very high words for Howe in terms of his ability and his leadership skill. The Howes kind of parallel in a way the de Villiers family. So in the French Union War, you see multiple Howes. There is William Howe, who is also in the service of the the British army. He fought at the Battle of Louisbourg.
Speaker: And Richard Howe is another Howe brother. He was in the Navy. he had fought in that opening battle where the, where Bosquin, Admiral Bosquin had ambushed and attacked some French ships before war was declared.
Speaker: So the Howes are all over the British side this war. The Davidiers, you know, there's two different Davidiers. One has been responsible for taking Fort Granville and for forcing Washington to surrender, of course, most famously at Fort Necessity. And then Joumanville was a half brother of that family. So... Whenever I learned that there were multiple Howes all throughout this war, and then multiple Daviliers, I thought it was a distinguished military family connection where all of the brothers are serving their respective king and country all throughout the war, which is pretty interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, this is just like one big Hatfields and McCoys, essentially. We're finding this out now. Yeah, it was just two families, but... uh yeah no yeah i agree with you jackson and it's like it's hard to distinguish uh those names as well like i i know like when i've been reading books and stuff about this war and you hear of how and other names that are very familiar and they're familiar because they're involved in in the later war of the american revolution which like we you know just hear more about growing up and know of the reason we're doing this podcast so more people can learn about this war but You just hear those names all the time, like General Howe, who, you know, I think was one of the head military governors in the new colonies for the Revolutionary War and stuff. So, no, that's that's a good point, though. like There's a lot of the same name here going around.
Speaker: Yeah. And also on Howe, before we can move on. One of the reasons he was so incredibly popular with his troops and with you know everybody really is because he got along very well with all levels of the military, not just the officers like you know generals. Usually they just kind of stick to their elites.
Speaker: you know This is not a time where the common man can become an officer. So it's very, the British military is very classist. The upper echelons are in noble families and they kind of stick to it themselves and look down on the common common man often.
Speaker: But how he gets along with the common soldier. He talks them. He visits even like the camp carpenters and and other tradesmen. And he shows adaptability to a very useful degree in this North American war. He accompanies Robert Rogers on some scouting expeditions. He watches the rangers, the light infant the growing light infantry in practice.
Speaker: And then he'll take some of these ah lessons he's learning from these, from how warfare is or ought to be conducted on North America. And he starts implementing that into the British, the the full army that is a getting ready to march on Fort Carrion.
Speaker: So some of that includes, you know, modifying the the campaign dress, getting rid of like heavy, heavier clothing so that they can march quicker. I think involved even like cutting the tails of the jackets because that would just weigh them down. And it was more for fashion than for practical practicality.
Speaker: And he travels very, very light. He doesn't ah have a huge tent with luxurious items like European officers often do. It's very bare bones, very suitable for the theater. And that just gets him a lot more respect from his army.
Speaker: Matt, any more notes on Lord Howe or Abercrombie before I switch over and take a look at what the French are dealing with or what they're expecting at this time? No, no, I think you think you summed it up good. have you know Obviously just ah reinforced that Hal was like a beloved commander. And he really was ah a man of the people, which is very different from most of the the British high command that we've talked about so far. So, you know, he was kind of a trendsetter in that. but that's That was really all I had.
Speaker: Yeah. And so young too, just 33, which is ah for his position commanding. while sub-commanding, second-and-commanding thousands and thousands of men. no No small feat. Now, the French at Fort Carillon, they have, in turn, about 3,600 able-bodied defenders, split between regulars, militias, and some Indians.
Speaker: So, again, that's 18,000 versus 3,600.
Speaker: that They don't really have any expectation of ah of a French victory here, if you know if any impartial observer was looking at above at these two forces. There's a lot fewer Indians that show up this year compared to 1757. We saw about 1800 in 1757 accompany the Fort William Henry campaign.
Speaker: There's about 600 or so from what I could gather. Some of the sources were a little unclear. as to if they were just like in and around the fort near the time of this battle, or if they were actually all present, this these 600 fighting somewhere within the battle.
Speaker: I couldn't get a lot of clarity on ah the actual numbers fighting when we talk about it. But the point is, there's a lot fewer, especially from the Pays d'Anneau, that is like the Great Lakes region, the more far-flung areas of French influence, a lot fewer have come this time.
Speaker: the a lot yeah A lot of Indians were coming in and out. There was a big party of them that arrived a few days after the battle, and they were very disappointed on missing out on the opportunity for loot, for glory, for scalps.
Speaker: So it's mostly going to be French soldiers and Canadian soldiers here defending for France. Bougainville, that excellent primary source that he is, he wrote concerning you know this lead up to the battle that We lack manpower and perhaps time is also lacking. Our situation is critical. Action and audacity are our sole resources.
Speaker: So kind of similar to what he had been said in one of our last episodes. He's got a flair and he really emphasizes the French boldness and audacity. But yeah, it's a rough situation for the French here.
Speaker: ah Before we move on from the commanders, I did want to bring up one additional commander on the British side. Jackson, you may know this name just because I think we've read the same book, which includes this, but there's Major Duncan cam Campbell. mess up this Oh, exactly i think yeah. Yeah, I'd heard so.
Speaker: So all of our listeners out there that like ghost stories or horror movies, this is a good story to kind of go along with, you know, what we're talking about today. um And then this is, I got this idea from a book by Walter Borman called The French and Indian War, which Jackson and have talked about before. um But he wrote about the story and it's just, it's kind of fascinating. So Major Duncan Campbell was a officer in the Scottish Highland units that the Crown had recruited for this one being the Black Watch. He was, i think, a ah believe major in that in that battalion. um So the story goes that he was in his castle and in Scotland one night and this guy shows up to the castle and is banging on the door because he wants ah he wants entry and and safety from something. So Campbell goes down to greet him and the man is running away from the police and is requesting sanctuary. And, you know, most of us, I think if the criminal will serve someone to come to your house, bang on your door to let you in because cops are chasing and probably want to do that. But because of Scott's law, like the.
Speaker: the kind of like custom and tradition there is that if someone's hooked your house requesting sanctuary, you give it to them. So he allowed this man to stay inside his castle. And then later on, um you know, the guards or, you know, the police at the time came to his, came to his castle looking for this man because he was a wanted murderer.
Speaker: um And knowing this, he still couldn't violate the Scott's law of allowing sanctuary. So he denied, you know, harboring the man. and then later that night, uh, I believe he was, uh, he went to bed and a ghost appears by his bed. and it was supposedly there's different sources on this, but supposedly it was the ghost of his brother telling him that the man who he was harboring is the one that killed his brother at this like bar fight that had happened that night or something. ah
Speaker: So he's telling him that he should not be giving him sanctuary and yada, yada. But then he says at the very end, we'll meet again at Ticonderoga. And this was, think it was about, I don't know, a few years before the Battle Ticonderoga. But he will be at this battle, so we'll see what happens to him later on. but Yes, you'll have to make sure to hit to to bring us back up to speed when he may or may not become more relevant to follow up the story. Yes, so but to end on that note, the Blackwatch, the Scottish Highlanders were ah present at this battle on the British side. So this is when those units start really getting involved in the action.
Speaker: Yeah, great, great interjection there. So we are ready to move onto the approach. The campaign begins, the training, the recruitment, the mustering is done on the British side. They're ready to move.
Speaker: So this is July 5th. So we kind of, we jumped a little bit out of order ah with Forbes' expedition, you know, that going all the way to November of this year. So we're we're back up in July now for reference.
Speaker: July 5th, this is in the middle of the Louisbourg siege as well, the British have embarked their massive, massive force at the south end of Lake George from the ruins of Fort William Henry, essentially.
Speaker: So this is kind of of a ah reverse of what we saw at the end of 1757, where Montcalm and a large force coming down south ah through Lake George. Now the British with a much larger force are coming up north from the end of Lake George.
Speaker: So they have over 1,000 bateaux with troops, artillery, provisions all laden on them. And Howe had sent Rogers ahead and some other forces to scout the area in detail, get them some some intel as this the massive body of troops approaches.
Speaker: Now, the British will pass unmolested past Sabbath Day Point. Now, Matt, do you does that name ring any bells for you, Sabbath Day Point? Oh, it does. I believe there was there an ambush that occurred there. that i'm I'm trying to remember. I remember it being slaughtered.
Speaker: Yep. Yeah. the The Jersey Blues unit of provincials was ordered to scout ahead in force in 1757. And yes, it was an ambush and it was a horrible, horrible turnout for the provincials with almost all of them dying or getting captured.
Speaker: So yes, but this time no ambush. No French lying in wait. And even if there were, there's just so many British. Anyway, so the British continue all the way to the north end of Lake George. Now, there's one name that will be good to know for future reference in this podcast.
Speaker: That is Bradstreet. I believe his, I think his first name was John Bradstreet. but I, oh, I don't know if you can help me out there. I have a bad habit of only recording officers' last names and not their first names. Oh, I believe it's, i would say John Bradstreet.
Speaker: Yeah, okay. I thought it was John. So John Bradstreet, he's the, he's leading the bateau operation. So he's very skilled in logistics and portaging and moving these these boats up waterways. And he's the one commanding or helping lead the British force as they move north through the lake.
Speaker: He won't show up too much in this episode, but the next one, he will play a very pivotal role. So remember that name, Bradstreet, and he's connected with the bateaux, the boats, the supply ships, the portaging.
Speaker: Got it. So the British get all the way to the north end, Lake George, and there not been they have not been attacked. They've not been impeded. They start to disembark.
Speaker: By June 6th, most of the British forces have disembarked. If you're looking at Google Maps, there's actually an area called Howe's Landing that is marked on the Google Maps just south of the town of Ticonderoga. And yep, it's right about there that the British were disembarking and organizing the advanced guards, the rangers.
Speaker: They're going to start to move ahead, and Howe is right there with them. You know, he's like most officers of the time that are involved in combat. They're with the unit, leading from the front.
Speaker: So he is with some of these advanced units. Now, a little bit about the geography here before we get into the next very critical part. So north end of Lake George, Howe's landing. It turns into this inlet.
Speaker: which turns into the La Chute River. i like that name when I was reading the La Chute, because it's a very very small funnel-type area. Yeah, where it joins into the La Chute River, but La Chute in French just means the falls.
Speaker: Like Chuteau is a waterfall. So it's a very, very small river that heads north into the modern town of Ticonderoga, then sharp east, and then a little bit southeast into Lake Champlain.
Speaker: So this is the connecting waterway between the two great eastern New York lakes, Lake George and Lake Champlain. Fort Carrion. is pretty close to where the La Chute River empties into ah Lake Champlain. So as the river goes from turn going north and turns east, pretty much directly east of that that point is where the fort is set up on a sort of like a peninsula. It's ah it's a jut of land, you know, going out into Lake Champlain, but it's not super narrow or super skinny like some peninsulas are.
Speaker: Anyway, so there's there's a little bit of the geography, the lay of land. Now, around this Laschut River, like in a lot of this upstate New York area, it's wilderness. There is a lot of dense forest and hills, mountains. You know, it's that typical wilderness warfare terrain that we have covered in a lot of battles here.
Speaker: So as some of these British advance guards with Rangers, light infantry, and importantly Lord Howe, are moving along, heading north, kind of probing, scouting, looking for French positions, because the French had been, they had like a sawmill on the river. There were some some small defensive fortifications in the area.
Speaker: So as they're scouting these areas out, they run head into a French force of about 350 or so. This was a party led by Captain Trepizek, which was watching, observing the British advance up Lake George from the western shore. And they were just trying to get back to Fort Carillon.
Speaker: But in this kind of vow wild and dangerous terrain, they were getting turned around and they ended up running right into the British. So...
Speaker: Turn the corner, boom, there's the enemy. A very vicious firefight ensues immediately. It's at a place called Burnett's Brook. It's a small walkway. For our listeners, this is like a separate battle as well. You just look up the Battle of Burnett's Brook. I think has its own like history and stuff about it too.
Speaker: Yes. Yep. This isn't the the full-on Battle of Forkaryon. This is going to be just a couple days before. So this is June 6th, or July 6th rather. Sorry about that. So as this French force is finding itself kind of surrounded by this advanced guard of the British, They're fighting desperately for their life. They're trying to ah to pull back and get across the river, head back to friendly lines.
Speaker: Most of them are going to get cut down or captured or drown in the river trying to escape. Some some will get by, but there's going to be, think, around 200 or so casualties.
Speaker: The British, they're a little bit better off. I think that they have more numbers there. ah They have about 100 casualties, but... yeah One of the most critical casualties among them is none other than Lord Howe, who was shot through the chest right near the beginning of this little skirmish on the outskirts of Fort Cario.
Speaker: so oh yes yeah Sorry, did you say he was shot in the chest? At least that's what I have seen in some source. you have something else? Yeah, the source I was reading just said he was shot it in the head. lucky like it sounded like it happened pretty quick into the fray, too. it was like just one musket ball to the head.
Speaker: but and Maybe both. Gory details, but yeah yeah. Either way, very hard to come back from a shot to the head or chest. ah But yes, so Howe is cut down in this you know very small skirmish, which would normally be pretty inconsequential to the Grand Campaign. But you know they haven't even got the fort in eyesight yet, and their beloved general is dead.
Speaker: And that just crushes the morale of ah of this attacking force. It's like ah you know the the spirit of the army was sucked away. So the advance guard, out as the skirmish wraps up, they work their way back south to the landing spot. you know The train was too difficult, and then they just lost their leader. They don't want to push forward anymore.
Speaker: Abercrombie, who has just been disembarking and is with the main camp there, he decides to build an entrenched camp at the the disembarkment site. So pretty close to where Howe's Landing is or at that exact spot in the Google Maps today.
Speaker: Uh, or so not at that. He doesn't build the the camp there. uh, builds it where a French sawmill was on the Lushud river. So they're still not all the way to Fort Carrion. They're not surrounding it yet or, uh, putting it under a siege officially, but a couple miles away, a few miles away, he's setting up this entrenched camp there.
Speaker: And it's going to take two more days before he's going to order the, uh, the siege of Fort Carrion, the, well, really the attack on Fort Carrion, as we'll see, not so much a siege.
Speaker: Jackson, really quick. I just wanted to I wanted to ask. So when I was reading this, I found it very odd that how would have been leading so far in advance. Like, I mean, because as we talked about, he was number two to Abercrombie in this in this army. um And it just it's very strange to me that he would have been so far forward in the column, you know, and I know I think you said it was like they unloaded the boat at the same time and he was on like the first landing craft. But it was so strange to me that, you know, they would have basically the acting general of the army and in an advanced guard.
Speaker: I think part of that must be due to just his personality. You know, he, he went on a scouting mission previously with Robert Rogers to get a feel on the ground for how operations were done. So I think i was just part of his personality of, you know, I'm one with the troops. I'm one of the boys basically, you know, yeah and I think another factor is,
Speaker: For some officers in this period, they were obviously like leading from the front. you know Officer death rate in the middle of battles was pretty high because they're usually very visible and they're right there with their companies, their regiments.
Speaker: Now, yeah, he is a very high-ranking officer. So perhaps maybe I'm wondering if other officers in his position would not be right there in the advanced guard or in the you know that the scouting party is pushing, ah pushing forward, yeah perhaps not, but with his personality and just the general fact that commanding officers attached to units or leading units are usually there with them as well. Cause you gotta, I mean, how do you communicate quickly?
Speaker: by shouting, by waving, by pointing, by drumming a message or whatever. Abercrombie is definitely the high enough ranking officer and with his temperament that he's going to be staying back and sending orders up ahead to direct the action. But it seems how personality wise definitely wasn't that kind of leader. And perhaps just being one level below, maybe that made it all the more reasonable that he would actually be in the action.
Speaker: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Oh, and I guess, you know, that makes me think too. We covered the siege of Louisbourg. You know, Wolf was down there. he wasn't the the top, top leader of that expedition, but he was one of like the sub, the sub generals. I don't remember his exact rank, but he was down there on the landing craft, you know, famously waving his hat at a confused sink signal. Oh, yeah, very true, and very true. So he he was eye ranking, but he was down there in the fight as well.
Speaker: All right. So about this delay though. So Abercrombie digs in and builds a fortified camp. a few miles away from Fort Carillon, and it's going to be two days passing before he attacks.
Speaker: Bougainville writes of this delay, because they weren't expecting it, that this precious time was the saving of us and of the colony. And I'll go into a little bit more detail right now about why that might be the case.
Speaker: So all through this time, you know, the French have known the British are coming, they're advancing. The British are coming. The British are coming. Different context. So they are scurrying to build further defensive works around Fort Carriol. So especially like outlying entrenchments and defenses. So they're hoping to hold the British advance.
Speaker: It's about three quarters of the mile away from the actual fort itself. So they're building breastworks. You know, those earthen mounds that come up about to the breast height. There are building trenches, they're setting things up for cross-firing, they're getting ready for to bring up artillery batteries up there, they're doing all the standard like defensive procedures of the day,
Speaker: but These extra two days where Abercrombie does not attack and instead just consolidating and entrenching his own camp, this gives some very valuable time for the French to keep working on these defensive works as part of these.
Speaker: It's also including what's known as Abatis, which is basically just... That's how I say it. I think, okay, I've read it. Abatis? I thought it was Abatis. Yeah, with standard French pronunciation, it should be pronounced Abatis, but sometimes there's irregularities where the S might be pronounced. ah I've only read the word. I haven't heard it spoken, so I think it's Abatis.
Speaker: Well, sirs, it's obviously very important in this battle because if you read about this battle, you'll read it a million times. So we'll get into it. But yes, so abati I like that. So that is a defensive fortification where it's basically just a tree or chunks of trees that is cut down.
Speaker: and laid out with the all the branches, you know, facing, like spread out, facing where the enemy would come from. And they'll oftentimes be sharpening the branches as well. So what it does is, number one, it's obstruction.
Speaker: You know, you can imagine if a tree fell over, it would be probably pretty hard for you to walk through that tree. You'd be stumbling. You'd have to climb a little bit. That's perfect for disrupting formations as they're approaching. And then, of course, also the the deadly element to it where they're sharpening the branches so people can get stuck on them. They can get impaled.
Speaker: It can be very dangerous in the heat of battle. So with some of these extra time that they have, they're setting up these abatis in front of their entrenchments and restworks. So it's starting to it started to look like a pretty solid line, whereas a few days ago it was in a much rougher condition.
Speaker: And the garrison itself... what i think i had read they only had like nine days ration when mount columb had arrived there ahead of the attack so it was looking pretty bad but aside from just being able to fortify the area further they also get some critical reinforcements that come in during that time with the same time of the delay so one notable example is that the Chevalier de Lévis, Lévis, we've mentioned him a little bit. He's the second in command of all French forces in North America.
Speaker: ah He is in Montreal as the British are approaching, and Vaudry is going to send him to do a diversionary attack with... can't remember if it's about 500 or maybe up to 1,500 men, where they're going to go down to the Mohawk River. They're going to compel the Iroquois League to finally declare for France and join them in a raid along the Mohawk River all the way to with the final target of Schenectady.
Speaker: So they're trying to draw off British forces and do a lot of damage in this diversionary raid. But as the scale of the British force becomes realized, Vaudreuil instead sends him to reinforce Fort Carrion with Montcalm.
Speaker: So he is going to arrive at like dawn or just just the night before, in the middle of the night, right before this battle is going to start. And he's got a few hundred men with him as well.
Speaker: So that's type of like mere hours at that point, even. the Yeah. cost Like, yeah, that's, that's crazy. Yeah. So you've got a very experienced and, ah and zealous commander along with some exp experienced troops bolstering the French lines just before the battle starts and their help will be greatly appreciated.
Speaker: One last note about French defensive preparations here behind these entrenchments, the French are planning to set up in rows, in rows of, or three rows. So that way, you know, the first row will be firing, the the rows in the back will be reloading, and then that way they'll can rotate through and keep pretty constant fire during any enemy attack.
Speaker: So on there, the left side, Burlemac is commanding. He's another officer. We probably only mentioned very briefly at this point. Lévis is commanding the French right side, and then Montcalm will be commanding the center of the line, and he'll be moving back and forth as needed. On the extreme right, pretty close to the waters of Lake Champlain, there's going to be the Canadian Marines and militia.
Speaker: But there be due to the geography, they're a little bit more separated from where the main ah British attack is expected to come from. So do you have anything else to add, Matt, before we get into the opening of this action?
Speaker: um No, just a general note, though, that it's hilarious. And not hilarious. And I think it the aspect of Fort Carrion the condition of it would explain. But they're kind of building another fort outside of the fort to defend the fort, which is just kind of funny. And I think it's because, of i mean, Fort Carrion was kind of in disrepair at this time. But yeah.
Speaker: it's just It's just interesting. You don't really typically see that in this era or most eras where you know you have a fortified position already. Yeah, it is a little interesting. i mean To my knowledge, having some outworks was fairly standard. But yeah, I think it says something to the confidence of Montcalm, or the lack thereof, in the holding at the fort itself, ah that they are building all of these outworks almost a mile away. i think, you know, i would love to be there. moving guns too. I think that was the big thing where... I think they just, yeah you know, kind of were like, you know, this is, going to build a new defensive position, you know, forward up more where there's more of a choke point.
Speaker: Yeah. And i would love to be there in person to actually get a real feel for the geography. I think also where the French lines were, there's a slight elevation, like a little bit of a plateau or height.
Speaker: So it might've been locally a strong strategic spot that was worth reinforcing and maximizing the geographic advantage. But that's, you know, that's just stuff I'm reading or seeing on maps. And a lot different when you're on the ground yourself looking and you can see like, oh yeah, there's a a good sized hill here or like, you know, in front of this is a, you know, a divot or something. And I could see firing into that would be, would be nice, but we are far from many of these battles so we can only read about them.
Speaker: All right, so it's about noon or so is when the action starts. The British marched. The light troops, the rangers, are in front. They will begin taking some shots from far away, starting to engage and skirmish with the French.
Speaker: Once ah the French are certain that the attack is coming, they're going to ring the, I guess, ring the alarm, but it probably would have been a drum or trumpet where... And anyone working on fortifications are going to drop their their shovels, get in line, grab their guns, get in defensive positions.
Speaker: And by 1230, the bulk of the British forces begin to arrive and come into sight. First, the provincial regiments and then the regulars passing between these regiments in attack column formation.
Speaker: So because an attack on the French right side, so this is like the the northern side, northern eastern, I guess, of the of the French lines, ah because this would expose them to some deadly crossfire,
Speaker: The British choose to focus mostly just on the French center and the French left. So kind of the northwest and west portions of the French line.
Speaker: I think there, again, there is some of that difficult terrain, like if they wanted to go all the way to the side and attack the the Canadian militia and Marines side of it. And yeah, that crossfire, they deem it's not worth trying to attack that way. So they're focusing everything on the center and the French left.
Speaker: So these are the British, you know, they're advancing from the West. So when we say like the French left, that's going to be the like the southernmost, a westernmost portion of the French line and coming out into this peninsula where Fort Carillon is.
Speaker: So. As they approach, you know the French are keeping up some lively fire with those three lines. They're running into these, or not running, they're walking, marching into these abatis, which is breaking up their formations, trapping men, and delaying the attack so that extra French volleys can be poured into these advancing men.
Speaker: And then as the extreme right of the French position is not under direct threat, Lévis is able to order some of these militiamen to make a little sortie and go out into some of the adjoining woods and then fire into the flanks of the British from there, since they're not being directly attacked on that side.
Speaker: So in this first wave of attack, there's very slow progress for the British and some very deadly a defensive fire coming from the French. but The British, they were ordered to storm the entrenchments by bayonet. So they're not they're not trying to like just get in range and start firing or anything like that. their Their goal is to march straight up to these entrenchments and then go into melee to a carry carry the works.
Speaker: However, all these defensive emplacements, the abatee, the suppressive fire, forces them to halt. You can imagine, you know, it's already... yeah it's already terrifying enough to be fighting.
Speaker: Yeah. Being tangled up in bridges up to your waist and then having, you know, basically D-Day around you and just withering gunfire would have been, i mean, that is just terrible to even think about. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. like Warfare this time was already, I can imagine it's already terrifying, you know, just marching straight up to the enemy. You can see them and then aiming, firing, and then going up to a bayonet. Like,
Speaker: terrifying you're going against thousands of guns pointed in your direction uh but yeah with these additional obstacles and the constant fire from the french you don't even have the benefit of you know sticking close with your your formation you're man on your right and your left because you're having to navigate these fallen trees and uh these attacks they start to lose momentum they slow down and then they just end up halting in this killing field and start to just try to return fire you know there them The defensive fire is too hot. They can't make it to the walls or the entrenchments.
Speaker: And so they just kind of halt and just try to shoot back essentially and then eventually yeah good so i was gonna say really quick um why didn't the british shoot their cannon through through the avati in the you know the fortifications didn't the british have guns with them or did they excellent point i probably should have mentioned that beforehand but yeah listeners you might be wondering What's the rush here? You know, why why aren't they surrounding the fort doing those Volbon siege tactics where you're digging trenches, building parallels, getting the guns into position?
Speaker: Why isn't that happening? ah That's an excellent question, Matt. And most people have no idea why that wasn't happening either, most historians. Yeah, this was a... I mean, just from...
Speaker: you know, you talking about Jackson, thinking about it to our listeners, this has to sound like a terrible idea by the British of ordering a full frontal assault against a prepared position with no artillery to support. um And yeah, it was a terrible decision, but it was based on some faulty intelligence that Abercrombie had got, um which was mostly actually his fault. So he, he had sent a, one of his junior engineers, which I think his name was Matthew Clark. Matthew. hyperberli Yeah, Matthew. oh Yeah. Oh yeah. Actually. so this is my second cousin. um,
Speaker: But no, Matthew Clark was a junior engineer who had scouted the French position and reported back that the British could take it by a frontal assault and did not need cannon for backup. And Abercrombie trusted that decision. and chose To his detriment. that you yeah and Yeah. So Abercrombie, as opposed to Howe, was not a great commander. But yeah, so that's why the the cannon were left behind. The British thought that this was a minor... ah
Speaker: inconvenience something like barbed wire to get through and they would be fine. Yeah, I'm very, very glad you brought that up. And my eagerness to get into the action, I'd forgotten to bring up that point. So yeah, very important to know that this was a rushed attack.
Speaker: And it wasn't really according to proper procedure. And yeah, it was due to one report of Oh, no, yeah, you can absolutely storm these these front positions. They're so weak. And Abercrombie decides to to act on that and just charge in the men.
Speaker: It's also worth noting there is one of the reasons that Montcalm was a little ah unsure or a little pessimistic about the defensive capabilities of Fort Carillon is because there's a mountain nearby. I think it might be Mount Defiance, but there is a mountain by it that is within cannon range of the force of the fort.
Speaker: So if the British were to have taken their time, surveyed the area, and then tried to to set up cannons and fire down into the French positions, it would be certain defeat for the French.
Speaker: But the British do not do this. They don't do their due diligence. They trust their their numbers. And this report is very ah enthusiastic. women inexperience yeah From an inexperienced ah you know help hand, essentially. Yeah. Oh, and on this note, I'll skip ahead to my notes real quick because I found this in Bougainville's journal.
Speaker: But he said after the battle that... In this occasion, we must recall what Caesar said. Up to the present, I have fought for glory, but to today for my life. For us, there's no retreat, no quarter, either conquer or perish.
Speaker: Moreover, and above all, never was the situation more critical for the commander. If the enemy took measures to cut us off by portaging barges from communications with Fort Saint-Frédéric, what could we do?
Speaker: We should have only five days' supplies. It would be necessary to abandon Carrion and to retire to Fort Saint-Frédéric. Soon afterwards, one would still be forced to abandon this latter position.
Speaker: A road half a league long would take barges behind Saint-Frédéric into Lake Champlain. One would then have said by this retreat necessary in the eyes of every soldier, the victory in the country would have been handed over to the English.
Speaker: Another precipice open at our general's feet if he was stubborn at Carrion. So Bougainville himself is like, they they could have easily made us have to to flee if they would just like portage to the other side of the lake, cut us off.
Speaker: if you know And as we discussed, if they had set up their heavy guns on the heights nearby. You know, multiple people are aware of the the the precarious position that this French fort is in, but the due diligence due diligence is not done.
Speaker: And now there's going to be dozens and dozens and then hundreds of British casualties as this full-on frontal attack withers against the Abati and the Entrenchments.
Speaker: So we'll go back to the action. The British first attack wave has faltered. It dissolves into just scattered return fire and then eventually retreat after about an hour of fighting.
Speaker: A second assault is ordered right after that from Abercrombie. now Abercrombie, do you know where he is at this point, Matt? I think he's pretty far back. Is that right? Yes. He's back at that, the sawmill camp further up the, the, the shoot river. So he's not in visual. He can't, he's not there with like a, an eyeglass looking and seeing for himself. He's sending up orders from probably a couple miles back. yeah He's just hearing that these attacks failed, not to the extent of the failure.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. He doesn't see for himself the folly of charges against these positions. Yeah. So we got Montcalm directing the center, Lévis coordinating the flanking fire from the French right side, Bournemac holding down the left side.
Speaker: The French are able to beat off this attack, the next one, the next one. Multiple attacks, I think. There might be five or six different waves in total.
Speaker: And there's some clever plays, or at least attempted to be clever plays by the British. At some point, they send some bateaux down the La Chute River to try to get to the side of the French left position and harass. or I don't know if their goal is to land or just to like shoot from the barges.
Speaker: ah But even this force of about 20 bateaux they end up getting forced back. A couple of barges get hit by cannon and sink and the flotilla retreats. ah So that, that strategy did not work. And while this is going on,
Speaker: more regular and provincial attack waves are going are against these French positions, like a great wave breaking against it and then fading back.
Speaker: There's a couple points, particularly a Highlander unit. Maybe this is Campbell's unit. Perhaps you can tell. Probably I'll let you know what's your go with that then. ah Well, so there's not too much more to the story, unfortunately, for Campbell. But like the night before this battle, supposedly, this ghost appeared to him again, the ghost of his brother, and didn't say anything to him. and it was...
Speaker: interesting at that time because ah duncan didn't know that fort carry on went by the name for ticonderoga as well so he didn't know this was ticonderoga it was just the you know the ghost appeared to him uh and his like the soldiers around him had supposedly known this story so they were trying to keep him from knowing that this was ticonderoga um But he he finds out from his brother appearing that night. And then unfortunately for Duncan Campbell, he will be mortally wounded in the coming battle. So that is that is the end of that ghost story. But kind of interesting.
Speaker: They met at Ticonderoga. they But yeah, I'm not sure if it's his unit specifically, but the the furthest the British get is with one of the Highlander units. They actually get up onto the entrenchments.
Speaker: you know, jump down in, but by that point, they're so weakened and the French and Montcalm is able to shift some reserves over there and kind of plug up the gap. And almost as soon as they enter the French works, they are cut down by bayonet.
Speaker: So that's pretty much the closest the the British got to info to breaking through, penetrating the French lines. There's a couple other odd stories about like They've got some provincials getting up right against the embankment and shooting up at the French above them, but then, you know, he gets spotted and then he has to get kind of carried out under fire. So the closest the British get to threatening Fort Carrion is just getting to the embankment, but they cannot get over it with any amount of force or numbers to dislodge the French.
Speaker: This fighting, starting at about noon, is going to keep going until about 7.30 in the evening. And it closes out with the Rangers and Light Infantry Provincials shooting at the fort, taking some potshots, mostly just as cover for the British to carry off some of their remaining wounded.
Speaker: And the British will retreat back to their camp. um At that point in the battle ends, Montcalm serves some beer to the victorious troops and congratulates them.
Speaker: But they are they're fully expecting an attack the very next day, and they will continue defensive work and shifts. and Before we get into, well, we're about to now get into the aftermath of the battle, but we can head back to casualty figures, and then we'll talk about what happens in the aftermath.
Speaker: So I had met British casualties at about 1,944 killed, wounded, and missing. So that's altogether about 2,000 casualties, including killed, wounded, and missing. Yes.
Speaker: Yes, that's, well, yeah. So i had about 1,000 killed and then 1,500 wounded on my end. So close to that. So we'll say 2,000 to 2,500 total killed, wounded, missing.
Speaker: ah For the French side, it's ah just under 400, about, is what I have. 372 is yet what I have. Okay, yep. That's what I had it as well. So we got two officer two notable officers getting wounded. Bournemac is wounded pretty pretty severely. He's going to recover, but...
Speaker: Uh, I think it might've been his arm that had been hit. And then, uh, Bougainville is also wounded lightly. Lévis's hat gets shot through twice. Uh, that made me think, and that's from coming from his own account that he writes in his letters.
Speaker: Uh, that made me think of Washington and the legend about him getting his coat shot through. I can't remember if that was coming, came from Washington himself or like later sources. Uh,
Speaker: I can't recall, but it reminded me of that. um Obviously, Lévis is not considered the father of the United States, so there's a reason we don't know about or we don't legendize.
Speaker: We don't make this story legendary because he was on the other side for would we what would become the United States. But yeah, so a little interesting parallel there.
Speaker: So the French, like I said, they're expecting, fully expecting the British to try again the next day because they know they got like 20,000 men, 15,000, 15 to 20,000 men.
Speaker: So they killed a lot. They wounded a lot, but there's plenty more where that came from. So they're going to continue the defensive work. But you know where Abercrombie falls back to I think it's the bottom of Lake George. Is that right? Yeah. So he's not just falling back to his camp, reorganizing, beginning to do things more methodically.
Speaker: The army is in such disarray, and Abercrombie is generally considered a very incompetent or weak-willed commander, that he is going to take his massive army, which still has over ty well over 10,000 able-bodied men ready to attack and cannons, and he is retreating all the way back down Lake George to, I think, all the to Fort Edward.
Speaker: I can't remember Fort William Henry was beginning to be like re-established, but ah Yeah, they go all the way to the the far end of Lake George and Abercrombie has no offensive plans for the rest of the the campaign. he writes He even writes that he has shortage of manpower, amazingly, as one of the reasons why he can't do any more offensive operations.
Speaker: So, yeah, he he gets way out of there. Well, and the retreat, too, was really messy because Abercrombie did nothing to like organize the troops and there were rumors spreading of like French and native, you know, skirmish attacks that were going to happen. So it was very like it happened throughout the night too. So I think some later, later primary sources were calling it like a shameful retreat.
Speaker: Yeah. regard So Abercrombie is not well liked amongst the officers. Yeah, I can believe that. anyway Especially with night falling, you know every bush could be hiding a native or a Frenchman coming out from the fort to chase you down. That would definitely play on on people's fears.
Speaker: The French wanted to pursue, but i mean their men had been working nonstop, building fortifications, and then fighting for seven hours straight. They did not have the strength to pursue. And since it was nightfall and they didn't have too many Indians that were present at the fight, they had had no confidence in being able to pursue get extra casualties and prisoners on this retreating British force. Unfortunately for them...
Speaker: The only thing I'll say in defense of Abercrombie is that having a thousand soldiers die in a single day and then another, you know, three or four hundred on the front side, it makes this the bloodiest day so far on this or in the war on this continent at least um so it probably would have been pretty uh disastrous to see a thousand troops cut down and then another like 1500 injured um so i'm sure maybe that shocked the conscience a bit and you know caused this retreat but this so as of now this is the bloodiest day in the war
Speaker: Yeah, I did not end up researching the background of Abercrombie, unfortunately. So I don't know if he had much real combat experience, if he was like a Nepo baby, as they say, or or what.
Speaker: I think he was pretty old, so he should have had lots of combat experience, but... Yeah. Maybe he just knew a lot of, I think he I think he ended up he just knew a lot of important people and got put at the head of that campaign. Like, I think he was kind of buddies with, with William Pitt or William Pitt felt politically forced to select him as the leader. I think I remember reading that somewhere. So yeah, not the most qualified guy, but yeah, but very well, perhaps just the shock of the bloodiest day in the entire war in North America that, uh,
Speaker: Definitely didn't help the orderly retreats and the calm com heads. So this French victory, which to them feels miraculous, in they appeal to Providence for us being like the only reason why New France still stands at this point.
Speaker: I think yeah they even raise a cross on the battlefield, right? At least I read that. That ModCom had ordered a cross be raised because yeah that they gave all credit to Divine Providence.
Speaker: Yeah, because I mean, from their own perspective, they had no real hope of being able to successfully defend and defeat the attacking force. the The best thing in their mind was delay and withdraw to the north.
Speaker: That was the best outcome they could have hoped for. Victory was not something and on the table. but So it very much appears to be a miraculous win for the French defending there. It will buy New France at least one entire new year of ah survival because this is the main area of William Pitt's plan that was thwarted.
Speaker: So he succeeds at Louisbourg. That is controlled by the British now. He succeeds taking Fort Duquesne. you know That frontier is now pacified for the most part, but it's really just this upstate New York thrust that has been thwarted with gusto.
Speaker: So this is the only ah wrinkle in his plan, and that will cause at minimum one more year of warfare. Because if... these French forts have been cleared out in early July as it was looking like it would have had.
Speaker: They plausibly could have gotten to Montreal or at least pretty close. Maybe they would have gotten it up to like Fort Saint-Jean and kind of dug in there or something like that. But it was on the table that they could actually hit Montreal if this were to succeed. But no, because again,
Speaker: New France does not have many soldiers. This is the the largest concentration of their forces at this current point in the in the war. And they've got about 4,000 men.
Speaker: So, you know, all their other troops are scattered about. there's I don't think there's any more... ah groups of troops greater than 4,000 men. So if you destroy or capture ah the the the French number one, number two, and number three military leaders and their troops, it's almost guaranteed the colony will fall.
Speaker: That does not happen. So France, New France, gets another year. ah Yeah, that is, ah that's the Battle of Fort Carrion. This is going to be one of The very last French victories, unfortunately, that we will discuss in this podcast.
Speaker: Certainly in the last great victory. There's going to be a couple other small wins, but this is it's kind of the swan song of New France. I had heard it termed. Yes.
Speaker: I think there were like there are songs written about this battle. And I know that the the flag of carry inspired the modern day Quebec flag. And I did little research on that. But it's it's supposed to be traced back to a supposed battle flag that was present at the the battle for carry on. So it's a very this is a very revered moment and like keep back history.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it man makes for a good story if you're if you're on the French side. I mean, so we we love talking about heroic stands against superior forces. You know, we always talk about the Battle of Thermopylae. You know, that's very well known. The ah the Greeks, with just hundreds or a couple thousand total. I know it's more than it's just Spartans there, but holding off, you know, this giant, giant thousands and thousands of Persians attacking ah A lot of last stands draw our great interest. And, you know, the the Alamo, for example. the alano you know
Speaker: So this, from the Friends' perspective, is one of their great last stand, successful, heroic defenses stories. Well, yeah, so...
Speaker: It's not quite over for British hopes in upstate New York. Now, this was a terrible defeat, and Abercrombie's retreat made it even worse. But we will talk about next week, there is one officer, that one Mr. Bradstreet we mentioned, who is going to ardently...
Speaker: argue for another offensive operation. Abercrombie will not be a part of this, but he will give his blessing to it. And we will be discussing that operation next episode.
Speaker: looking forward to that. Should be another great story. There's a lot of good stuff here in 1758. If I was a general in this time, I would not want Abercrombie's blessing. but Maybe you just wouldn't want Abercrombie there. you would want You would want his blessing to go alone and on your own things.
Speaker: Yes, yes. Perhaps. But yeah, okay. You got anything else to add? ah No, no. ah Yeah, this was a a sad one for the British, but they won't get their their comeback. And but this one was a glorious one for the French.
Speaker: Yes, yes. it all go down It goes down in Quebec history. So it was cool, like, finding, like, the modern-day connection that, you know, these things are represented and things we might not know about. So, but, yeah, no, that's, I mean, it's a very heroic battle to to learn about.
Speaker: But, yeah. Yeah, that's great. One fun note before I'll sign off here is that in the past few weeks, I have been designing a Magic the Gathering set that is in the French and Indian War period. And it has been a blast.
Speaker: And once, ah maybe I can share on the Facebook page or something, a couple of the card designs I've come up with. It's been so fun looking at history and then thinking, hmm, how would... aber karromby for example How would he translate into a Magic the Gathering card? and What main mechanics and themes would the British have if they had to conform to the the five colors of of magic?
Speaker: It's been super fun. I hope ah over the coming weeks or months I can share some of that. The hardest part will definitely be the art. i don't know what I'll do for that, ah but figure it out. But it's been super fun, and I hope to share some of that. Yeah, it could get me in hot water. but We'll see what ah what approach I do with that.
Speaker: Yeah, anyways, very glad you guys ah could listen to this one. it was a lot of fun to research and i found a lot of great sources for it. So this is one more so than others where I feel like we could really go into some detail on preparations, formations, different waves of attack.
Speaker: Very fun story. And we're looking forward to bringing you some more excellent and fascinating histories and stories from this period. wo Yeah, thanks for listening.
Speaker: You guys have a great night and we'll see you soon.
