Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: This is episode 89.
Speaker: With me, my co-captain as always.
Speaker: Scott Larson.
Speaker: Scott, let's talk about our awesome sponsor and maybe some of the shenanigans we have going on.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, flipping out pinball, if you are looking for that game, I know that Zach was posting a lot of sales and trying to move some inventory that he had.
Speaker: So check out if you have that game that's on your wish list, go ahead and check it out.
Speaker: And if you have a game that you're thinking, well, an older game that you is your grail pin, definitely reach out to them.
Speaker: They'll be able to figure out something.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Always been good to us.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And if you catch the tail end of the pinball show, he's giving some exclusive offers through the podcast that you can't get anywhere else.
Speaker: Go listen to his podcast and get those exclusive offers.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: So what has been going on with you, Scott?
Speaker: Okay, so I'm still a little frustrated with Rush.
Speaker: The bottom line is when I got Rush, the side scoop never worked.
Speaker: And yeah, I probably should have been a little more aggressive about immediately getting on it and saying, hey, you know, hey, it's this, I need some help.
Speaker: But busy time in life.
Speaker: And I so I just kind of stopped playing it for a couple of months.
Speaker: Then I started getting into it and saying, okay, so what's the issue?
Speaker: So trying to figure out what the issue is, because what would happen is go into the side scoop and then it wouldn't eject.
Speaker: And then it would go through a ball search and immediately spit out the standard scoop.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I got the...
Speaker: I got the scoop replacement and I was following through step-by-step to say, okay, so replace these.
Speaker: And so, you know, John Borg has a great step-by-step on it.
Speaker: And I get to the point where he's like, okay, so you put back on the side scoop and you throw a ball in and it shows the, he showed how he was testing it.
Speaker: And I'm looking at mine.
Speaker: I'm like, mine doesn't look like that.
Speaker: Mine shows two balls, but one of the balls is,
Speaker: It says it's already in there.
Speaker: And it's not the first ball, it's the second ball.
Speaker: So that likely is an opto.
Speaker: Went back and forth with trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker: I even messaged John and John said, well, okay, so it could be the opto.
Speaker: It sounds like it's the opto.
Speaker: So what I did is I actually took a drill and I drilled the side opening up bigger.
Speaker: So there would be no interference with the opto, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And filed it down, put it back on, still nothing.
Speaker: So then I contacted Zach and thankfully, Zach as a distributor, they're really good about helping out.
Speaker: And he sent me to Greg and talked back and forth with Greg and he's like, yeah, it sounds like it.
Speaker: So he sent in a request.
Speaker: Well, I, I didn't really hear anything.
Speaker: And so I'm sitting here thinking, well, it's, it's been a week and just message like, Hey, just, just wondering, is there, is there anything else I can do?
Speaker: And this is where I think people get a little frustrated with customer support.
Speaker: Um, because the bottom line is, yeah, I, it is a, it is a game that I'm not, it's not like a car that I'm driving every day.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I did spend over $12,000 for this game.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: And so I emailed Stern and Stern sent back and said, yeah, we did get the request.
Speaker: And so I was trying to ask back and forth.
Speaker: And so I was like, okay, so what more do you need to know?
Speaker: Like, how can I help?
Speaker: Basically, I was trying to be the, hey, I'm just trying to help you get all the information you need so you can get back to me.
Speaker: I'm really trying.
Speaker: I'm not a tech guy.
Speaker: I don't work on my machines all the time.
Speaker: I know enough, but not, not a crazy amount.
Speaker: And finally got to it.
Speaker: And she's like, okay, so check, check this.
Speaker: And I was like, okay.
Speaker: So I, and then I sent back, so went back and forth a few times and, and they did confirm that they got the, the fix request from flipping out.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: Then they said, okay, check these two things.
Speaker: So I sent back, I'm like, okay, I checked it here.
Speaker: It still says that Opto is malfunctioning.
Speaker: Seems like the micro switch is fine.
Speaker: I can feel it.
Speaker: I'm like, is there anything else?
Speaker: So I waited a day.
Speaker: I didn't hear anything.
Speaker: And I was like, that's fine.
Speaker: I just wanted to send back and it's like, Hey, I'm just, you know, just following up.
Speaker: I'm, I'm trying to, I haven't really played this game.
Speaker: And so I'm really trying to just expedite it as, as quick as I can.
Speaker: So just let me know.
Speaker: Still didn't hear anything.
Speaker: So I waited two days.
Speaker: It's like, okay, fine.
Speaker: So I sent it off.
Speaker: I'm like, Hey, is there anything else?
Speaker: And I got,
Speaker: it's hard on emails to get tone.
Speaker: Yes, definitely.
Speaker: It's like text messages.
Speaker: It's totally hard.
Speaker: And so this could, could be me projecting.
Speaker: And, and I, it, again, I'm hoping I'm not being, I'm not being unfair.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But, um, I got, let's see.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: I want to read this so you guys can accept the tone as much as you want.
Speaker: You need to say it like a zombie, though, or like a robot, so that way you're not giving an implied tone that isn't there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, I could do the.
Speaker: And so and again, I'm I know they probably deal with this stuff all the time.
Speaker: And so I'm really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker: But I am only telling you as a consumer, like how would the average consumer.
Speaker: view this, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I went through our email thread and you did mention the side scoop does not activate when the ball goes in.
Speaker: You also took a look at the opto set, but it appears to be sitting correctly.
Speaker: This tells us that the opto set for the side scoop is not working and will need to be replaced, affirming what you previously were told by John Borg.
Speaker: Since your order has been submitted by your distributor, you will just have to wait for the opto set to arrive and it can be replaced with a different soup.
Speaker: So
Speaker: The word that jumped out at me is you will just have to wait.
Speaker: And again, I'm hoping that I'm reading that wrong.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it would be like, hey, we're happy to expedite this.
Speaker: We are waiting on parts and we will get that to you as soon as possible.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: When did you get this game?
Speaker: When did you get Rush?
Speaker: January.
Speaker: Cause I remember we came up, was it February Carter?
Speaker: And I came to your house and played and it wasn't working then.
Speaker: Like it's been, it's never, it's never worked.
Speaker: Um, the side scoop that, yeah, the side scoop has never worked.
Speaker: So, and again, I'm hoping that I, that this is more of a misunderstanding on my part and they're expediting things.
Speaker: Um, but this is, uh,
Speaker: Okay, this is going to be like grumpy Scott day, I guess.
Speaker: So let me tell you about another experience I had on Friday.
Speaker: This is not pinball related at all.
Speaker: So if you don't want to hear this story, fast forward five minutes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we go out to dinner with some friends who are, you know, they're good friends.
Speaker: They're actually, it's one of the surgeons that I go down to Guatemala with.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we've been good friends for, you know, for six years now.
Speaker: We go to a restaurant and I know I hate going to restaurants on Friday nights because it's... They're packed.
Speaker: They're packed.
Speaker: Usually the
Speaker: They're too busy.
Speaker: The service is usually subpar.
Speaker: And it just feels like a stressful experience.
Speaker: If I can go to a place that has reservations, then I will.
Speaker: Because I'm just like, I don't want to... I hate going to Texas Roadhouse.
Speaker: My kids love it.
Speaker: I hate it.
Speaker: Because you go there, you put your name on the list, and...
Speaker: you're sitting outside with peanut dust and just everybody just sitting there for like an hour to an hour and a half waiting for a dumb table to, to break off.
Speaker: And then you go inside and it's too loud.
Speaker: And I don't think the food's that good anyway, but we go there and we put our name on the list.
Speaker: And then they're like, it was like 40 minutes.
Speaker: And after like 55 minutes, we're like, people are going in.
Speaker: And I know it's, I know 40 minutes is an estimate, but people are going in.
Speaker: So I'm like,
Speaker: Maybe we should ask and see if they, you know, there's something going on.
Speaker: And they walked up and they said, oh, oh yeah.
Speaker: You, uh, come on, we have your table.
Speaker: Like that was kind of weird that we had to get up and ask, but took us there.
Speaker: We sat down, gave us the drink menus and we went and all four of us, none of us drink alcohol.
Speaker: So we were just interested in getting like standard drink.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: They ordered drinks, but then we got like a soda and two like root beers or a ginger soda or whatever, one of those things, cream soda.
Speaker: And then they disappeared and came back maybe like 20 minutes later.
Speaker: And we said, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker: So we would like some appetizers and we ordered two appetizers.
Speaker: And then, and we also said, well, we also already ordered.
Speaker: So we just told the order and disappeared.
Speaker: Like it was like an hour.
Speaker: And I'm, I'm really not a high maintenance guy when it comes to rest.
Speaker: Like I I'm, I'm pretty low key.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So no, I totally get it.
Speaker: But, um, so I'm usually pretty low key.
Speaker: And then I like,
Speaker: like I was out of water, which I never, like I was there long enough to completely deplete my water glass.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker: So I go up and I walk up to the bar and I'm like, can I get a refill on my water?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so they gave me the refill on the water.
Speaker: And so I sat down and my wife was drinking a soda.
Speaker: And so I picked up her glass and I went up and I said, can I get a refill on this too?
Speaker: So they got it.
Speaker: And I think they were kind of cluing in like, okay, like this is, yeah, this is weird, but okay.
Speaker: And so I sat down.
Speaker: Then she comes out and gives like, she gave the food and we're like, oh, the appetizers.
Speaker: And she's like, oh, they didn't bring those out.
Speaker: We're like, no, no.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'll check on them.
Speaker: We're like, I don't think we want them.
Speaker: We just got our entrees.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And she's like, oh, okay.
Speaker: I'll ask about taking them off.
Speaker: I'm like.
Speaker: That would be awesome.
Speaker: You should check on that.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: This is my inner monologue.
Speaker: It hadn't gone to external monologue.
Speaker: And we looked down and she had never brought us silverware.
Speaker: Like legitimately never brought us silverware.
Speaker: So I like walked back up to the bar and
Speaker: And I got silverware from the bar and I sat down and like, I mean, it was kind of weird.
Speaker: Like, like they had two utensil things.
Speaker: So I got those and then we were still waiting and it was literally like 10 minutes later, she came back and I was like, Hey, like, do we like, we don't have utensils.
Speaker: Um, you know, and I w I was, I was getting to kind of annoyed with her and in,
Speaker: I was like, I had to get my drinks.
Speaker: And she's like, look, I have a lot of tables in the other room.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So that's when I was like, I'm done here.
Speaker: I didn't say it, but I said, can I just talk to your manager?
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: And I was polite.
Speaker: I didn't raise my voice.
Speaker: I didn't swear anything.
Speaker: I just said, can I just talk to your manager?
Speaker: And the manager came out and I just told it.
Speaker: I said, well, so first off,
Speaker: that we waited like 55 minutes and we had to go and ask about, uh, sitting down.
Speaker: And she's like, yeah, we've had, we've, we've had problems with the pain.
Speaker: You do this.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm not done.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then we sit down, we wait for, we get our drinks after like trying to do stuff.
Speaker: We have to refill our own drinks.
Speaker: We ordered appetizers.
Speaker: We, they, she never followed up on it.
Speaker: She never came back to us.
Speaker: And when I tried to bring up that, Hey, we weren't really having that good of an evening because of the situation she throws in throws back at us.
Speaker: Well, I've got other tables.
Speaker: I'm like, well, I guess I have other restaurants that I could go to.
Speaker: Now I will say, thankfully, the manager was very, very apologetic and actually just, we didn't pay for the food.
Speaker: She just comped food.
Speaker: So this is, the only reason why I'm telling you this is because this is kind of a side example of,
Speaker: how customer service is so important.
Speaker: Oh, I agree.
Speaker: And it's not usually the fact that if, if an adverse thing happens, it's really how anything happens to support the customer to make them feel like they're a valued asset.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so, and again, I'm, I'm giving certain the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker: I don't want to be a flamethrower here.
Speaker: I, I,
Speaker: I'm hoping I'm just, I'm just taking the tone and projecting my frustration that I've had a game for six months that I haven't been able to play.
Speaker: And so we'll find out, hopefully the scoop will be come and it'll be tickety boo and we'll be fine.
Speaker: I also ordered the, like the loop fixes that Tom Graff recommended.
Speaker: So I have those two.
Speaker: So I'm hoping to get that game up and going.
Speaker: and be able to explore it finally yeah well and it's hard to it's hard to give you a give a good impression on a game that you can't play so anyway i i will wait i'm sure that when i get the now thankfully stern has come through uh in the past and so i it could just be that i'm a little more on top of this because it's a game i really want to play um
Speaker: But, you know, I got my they got my ramp diverter fix for turtles.
Speaker: And they also got me the the pop up spinner on Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: And so the and the Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: searchlight thing that was malfunctioning online.
Speaker: They got me that too.
Speaker: So they do come through.
Speaker: Oh, definitely.
Speaker: But it is frustrating when you're waiting for more information and it just seems like there's, you know, there's a reason why when you order a Domino's pizza, it has a pizza tracker on there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you can say, oh, it's, it's being made.
Speaker: Hey, it's in the oven.
Speaker: Hey, it's out.
Speaker: It's shipping out to you.
Speaker: Hey, it's at your door, but you know, things like that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I get you.
Speaker: So that's what's, that's what's been going on in my pinball world.
Speaker: Mine is, uh, I finally got, I think I've got my water, white water, almost like 96% done.
Speaker: Uh, I had to do some stuff to it after I picked it up.
Speaker: Um, instead of fiddling with the circuit board, I just bought a brand new one, a new power driver.
Speaker: Because it had battery acid damage on it.
Speaker: I just didn't want to deal with it.
Speaker: It's just better just to swap it out.
Speaker: Yeah, so I just swapped it out.
Speaker: And I put the new chip, the most recent chip.
Speaker: I did not realize that Whitewater's bonus hold.
Speaker: So if you hit the disaster drop six times, it gives you a bonus hold.
Speaker: It never did that with the original chip.
Speaker: That was a programming thing.
Speaker: So someone had went through.
Speaker: They did some quality of life updates essentially for the chip.
Speaker: Uh, it's doing good.
Speaker: It has like a new light show too, for the countdown and whatnot.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, I'm really enjoying that.
Speaker: I'm getting ready to trade out my no fear for a giant mnemonic.
Speaker: I, I don't know what it's about giant mnemonic, but I just really liked that game.
Speaker: I've owned it once before.
Speaker: This is the first game I've ever owned for the second time.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: No fears.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I, it doesn't, doesn't do anything for me.
Speaker: Um, and so it's, it's fine.
Speaker: Does the glove actually work in that one?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, it's,
Speaker: We're recording on Pioneer Day.
Speaker: So for anyone that doesn't live in Utah, the 24th of July is the day that the Pioneers back in the 1800s had first came into the valley.
Speaker: 1847.
Speaker: Days of 47.
Speaker: 1847 is when they came into the valley and said, this is the place.
Speaker: And so... Technically he said, this is the right place.
Speaker: Drive on.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: It's a holiday weekend for us.
Speaker: Tomorrow's actually my birthday, so I'm excited.
Speaker: We're going to go pick up Johnny Mnemonic for my birthday and hopefully go over Texas Roadhouse, but maybe not.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: But we'll be going on a lot.
Speaker: Yeah, Texas Roadhouse, it's still a holiday tomorrow in Utah, so keep that in mind.
Speaker: But Texas Roadhouse, yeah, it just seems like it, wow, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't think it's worth it, all the wait that you have to have.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We'll see what happens.
Speaker: But I'm excited.
Speaker: But yeah, it could be your favorite place.
Speaker: It's just not mine.
Speaker: So I like it.
Speaker: And it's not like it's a highbrow.
Speaker: I love McDonald's.
Speaker: So I'm good.
Speaker: We had Comic-Con last week.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Venom was announced, right?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Okay, no, it wasn't.
Speaker: Okay, can we talk about these shenanigans for just a second?
Speaker: Okay, you can talk a little bit.
Speaker: I'm not going to dive into the drama, but you can talk about it a lot.
Speaker: Let's not dive into the drama.
Speaker: But what's funny to me is that we get a rumor going and it starts to steamroll, regardless of where the source comes from, right?
Speaker: And...
Speaker: we can already kind of see the aftermath of like where's the aussie pin where's where's the venom pin where's and it's like it was said that it was supposed to be this weekend it's like well stern has said for a while now that they weren't going to reveal tell third quarter right like that's usually that was basically august right
Speaker: august to september and even distributors have agreed that like the schedule says there's nothing on the line till really september they don't know what it is but they know that there's a block you know this is not news to anyone because this has been talked about on the pinball show on triple drain i mean it's just i don't know it's it's funny because like stern has went to comic-con every year for the last how many years and they've never revealed anything it
Speaker: My thought, however, however, I'm going to push back a little bit.
Speaker: Like I didn't think they were going to announce anything.
Speaker: I didn't think they were going to announce.
Speaker: And then I saw them putting up the banners.
Speaker: And it like, why in the world would Ozzy be at the Stern booth?
Speaker: Why in the world would be Todd McFarlane be at the Stern booth?
Speaker: And the obvious answer is there is a game that's going to be coming out with these two involved because why else would they be at the Stern booth?
Speaker: So I put on my detective hat, right?
Speaker: Because we talked about this a little bit before the show.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I honestly think that Venom was supposed to be out in April.
Speaker: That's typically when... And we are still assuming it's Venom.
Speaker: We're thinking it's something to do with comic books.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, obviously has something to do with Ozzy Osbourne and Todd McFarlane, because that was the booth that Stern was sharing with them.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And what would the like with Todd McFarlane, what would be the obvious like what art is he known for?
Speaker: For Venom.
Speaker: Well, it's Spider-Man and Spawn.
Speaker: And that's in the 90s.
Speaker: He was he was huge.
Speaker: He had a visual style that revolutionized comics.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And so it's it's pretty impressive what he did.
Speaker: But it's definitely comic book related.
Speaker: And it was definitely he he left Marvel to do Spawn on his own.
Speaker: Because he wanted the rights to his work.
Speaker: That's actually why he left Marvel.
Speaker: And in the 90s, a lot of major artists did.
Speaker: And so that was something.
Speaker: But it makes sense to say, well, what's the likely link going to be as Venom?
Speaker: Well, and the rumors were is Venom was the next one up, right?
Speaker: That was the rumor.
Speaker: That was the biggest rumor, yeah.
Speaker: Coming up in April.
Speaker: They usually hit the March, April, May window, right?
Speaker: So it would make logical sense.
Speaker: If Venom had been released by now, they would be touting it at San Diego Comic-Con.
Speaker: That's the problem is like we got talking about licensing with some other people.
Speaker: And it's been talked about on podcasts recently.
Speaker: Why doesn't Stern?
Speaker: Why doesn't JJP?
Speaker: Why don't they just release what they have in the pipeline?
Speaker: So we know what's coming because a lot of people save money or do it based off of the rumors that they're hearing.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to push back.
Speaker: I understand why they don't.
Speaker: This is the FOMO, the fear of missing out.
Speaker: And if there's that one game that is three years down the pipeline that you've been looking for, you're going to tunnel vision onto that and not buy the other ones.
Speaker: Well, not only that, but like Toy Story is a perfect example.
Speaker: If you listen to the Super Awesome Pinball Show, they just did an interview with Jack Winery of Jersey Jack.
Speaker: And Wonka was not actually supposed to come out before Toy Story.
Speaker: It was supposed to go Pirates, Toy Story, Wonka.
Speaker: Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: Or Guns N' Roses, then Wonka.
Speaker: So Wonka should have came out at the time.
Speaker: We should be just being Wonka now.
Speaker: Think about that, though.
Speaker: Say JJP, five years ago, comes out at one of the shows and says, hey, we've got Pirates coming out now.
Speaker: Toy Story's up in the pipeline.
Speaker: and then Guns N' Roses after that.
Speaker: Well, this situation is they had to flip the two.
Speaker: They had to flip Wonka and Toy Story because of the restriction on licensing and times.
Speaker: So how many people would have been ticked to know that Toy Story was coming out
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And then got pushed off two years.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Not even two.
Speaker: It's three plus.
Speaker: And then on top of that, if they came out and announced that they had Toy Story, they would have not been able to change their mind.
Speaker: Maybe they would have.
Speaker: And said, hey, because do you think there would be even more blowback if they were like, yeah, we're doing Toy Story 1.
Speaker: They'll be out in four years.
Speaker: So we're pushing it back.
Speaker: But this is the case.
Speaker: And then they show up with Toy Story 4 and everyone's like, you said it was Toy Story 1.
Speaker: And like, oh, we decided to change.
Speaker: It gives them no flexibility.
Speaker: I think that's what it really comes down to.
Speaker: They get more flexibility and control with not announcing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I think, though, I think once you get to a certain point, though, you...
Speaker: Three months out.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just, it's weird.
Speaker: It's weird that we don't, we don't know till week before we get a teaser trailer.
Speaker: Even K even distributors don't know that that's what blows my mind is that the only way something actually gets out is if a distributor or someone with distributor access leaks it.
Speaker: It's not even that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's people inside a stern that leak the information, but then they point at distributors and say it's their fault.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm not going to go more in depth than that.
Speaker: Yeah, it is challenging, though, in that you're like investigative journalists.
Speaker: You are relying on people who are willing to do leaks.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: To get information, which is it's an interesting model.
Speaker: But I also understand, though, if you look at it.
Speaker: OK, how much buzz is there right now for Cactus Canyon?
Speaker: None.
Speaker: None.
Speaker: OK, so when did they announce that?
Speaker: October.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so it's out.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But who's got their LEs?
Speaker: But the problem is, is there's SC sitting in stock at distributors?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: Are we really waiting on a topper?
Speaker: I don't know if the topper is really the hold back on this one.
Speaker: Well, I, but I think the issue is that people only wanted the complete package and that included the topper on that game.
Speaker: Um, so, uh, with the one thing that JJP did right with, um, with toy story is that they had them available.
Speaker: They announced it.
Speaker: They said, place the order.
Speaker: Boom.
Speaker: Two days later, you were seeing people who had them in their homes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that was really, that was the right thing to do.
Speaker: The challenge though, and it seems like after that initial rush, it's been more the rush for Toy Story.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's been a little more of a ghost town.
Speaker: Um, they're not moving as fast as I think people were anticipating.
Speaker: And I'm going to peg that a hundred percent on the $12,000 price tag.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: Because you're not going to, that was a crazy increase.
Speaker: GNR was 9,500.
Speaker: Then they bumped it a thousand, but then to bump it again to 12,000, I think they, I don't think they found the ceiling.
Speaker: I think they blew through the ceiling.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I, I think they're going to be selling less than they wanted to.
Speaker: I want to say yes and no.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Probably less than they want to, but as much as they anticipated.
Speaker: And the reason I say that is in business, if you have a high end product and you know, you're not going to be moving as much because of the price tag.
Speaker: Sometimes it's better to move that price tag up because you know that there's still going to be some demand for it.
Speaker: And so moving that price tag up will cover the cost of what it would have been if you had sold more at a lesser cost.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And legitimately that, that could be the best option for a JJP.
Speaker: I mean JJP is they are a, they're a boutique company.
Speaker: They really are there.
Speaker: They're like, okay.
Speaker: The analogy isn't exactly the same, but think of like Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, they don't do volume.
Speaker: They do a limited release on their cars, and it goes to a few collectors who are willing to pay the price tag.
Speaker: Whereas Stern is like Ford.
Speaker: They are selling them.
Speaker: They're selling them out the door.
Speaker: And yeah, they're still making money on it, but it's not the same amount they're making on each one.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I haven't looked at a bill of materials.
Speaker: This is me just looking from the outside.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But it makes sense.
Speaker: It makes sense because it's consistent with the business model.
Speaker: I think they're content.
Speaker: I think it gets them plenty of money to pay for what they've been doing, and it helps propel them enough into the next title.
Speaker: It keeps the doors open.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: They're not losing money on this.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: I think if anyone's really ticked,
Speaker: It's the distributors, especially the ones that were forced to take stock.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Their allotments.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They had to take allotment and they've only sold 20% of that allotment.
Speaker: If that.
Speaker: I think that's where it really hurts you, especially going into a recession.
Speaker: And because we've seen the market is just it's almost come to a grinding halt.
Speaker: Well, OK, so that's that's really what I'm getting to next.
Speaker: So I'm looking here and this is so this is just inside just looking at what is available.
Speaker: And you see the standard.
Speaker: Hey, buy my Kiss Ellie for sixteen thousand five hundred.
Speaker: Buy my, you know, my Attack for Mars LE for $15,000.
Speaker: I also see Guns N' Roses LE for $9,600.
Speaker: I also see Avengers IQ, $9,000.
Speaker: I'm seeing Toy Story 4, $11,300.
Speaker: Guns N' Roses, $9,900.
Speaker: Deadpool Premium, $8,700.
Speaker: Rush premium, $8,200.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And so they're dropping.
Speaker: They're dropping.
Speaker: They didn't drop like a little bit.
Speaker: They dropped $1,000.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's... We're getting back to where it probably should be.
Speaker: Well, even the secondary market.
Speaker: I mean, I've been looking at John Emonix just to kind of get a good idea of the price.
Speaker: I mean...
Speaker: The lowest ends at 3,600.
Speaker: That's pretty close to the average of what they're asking.
Speaker: And where you've got three that are, you know, two at 5,000 and there's no one sniffing.
Speaker: I mean, I've been looking at shadows because I've wanted a shadow for a while.
Speaker: And there's a shadow on there that's asking like 6,900, which is what?
Speaker: That's a pro for a stern.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Average is supposedly mid 4,000s.
Speaker: And granted, this guy, he has a decent, it's a nice shadow.
Speaker: But for 6,900, it's just not moving.
Speaker: It's still there.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: It's been reposted multiple times.
Speaker: I mean, it's been sitting for months.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There's also a Rush LE for 10,400.
Speaker: That's a $1,000 loss on that.
Speaker: Guns and Roses, 9,600 or best offer.
Speaker: Um, granted, I'm not saying that we're going to be buying, buying these up for like pennies on the dollar.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: But I think what it's saying is that you're getting it for what is probably a more realistic price, given the, uh, I guess, given what you can get a new one for.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We were in crazy town where you would buy a pin and you could immediately sell it for $2,000 more if you could get it at sticker.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's the crazy thing.
Speaker: The one that seems still not to be dropping is...
Speaker: well, there's an Iron Maiden Legacy of the... Iron Maiden Legacy of the Beast Premium LE.
Speaker: That would be an interesting mod. 14,500?
Speaker: A premium for $14,500?
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Just because they're out-chain doesn't mean it's selling.
Speaker: Oh, I know, but he's got... Wow.
Speaker: He has the sarcophagus ball lock, but...
Speaker: Yeah, that's not the good one.
Speaker: That's not the, it's, it's not the Steve Gouveia, uh, sarcophagus ball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's that, that guy's crazy.
Speaker: He's not going to get that.
Speaker: But I think the point of the matter is, is machines just aren't selling what they're supposed to be selling for or new in box.
Speaker: And then the secondary market's coming down pretty, pretty fast.
Speaker: Well, I think what's happening is people are getting whiplash from the reset from an over 9% inflation that was reported in July.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so depending on your market and stuff too, like look at people that, that do food, their, their costs have gone up at least.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's just getting out of control.
Speaker: And I just, we're, we're, I think we see the hardest of this starting at the beginning of the year.
Speaker: But that's just me.
Speaker: I'm not here to give you market advice and whatnot.
Speaker: No, well, I'm not, but it, but it is, it is interesting seeing what the, what the trend is going to be.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: But I want to go back to, I want to go talk back to licensing for a minute.
Speaker: Cause it's funny.
Speaker: Cause we were talking about rumors.
Speaker: We're talking about licensing and super awesome had done a interview with David fix and Ryan McQuaid of American pinball.
Speaker: And then they did the one with Jack Connery of JJP.
Speaker: And it's funny cause we talk about these rumors and whatnot.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And didn't they say that they don't have the American pinball doesn't have the Sonic license?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's the funny part is they talk about that and then they say, well, Stern doesn't have an either.
Speaker: So whoever makes this game, it better be amazing because Ryan McQuaid's was amazing.
Speaker: And I'm like, it's just kind of goofy to like out another pinball company and say that the license is gone.
Speaker: And I know that Spooky did this with Godzilla.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then like the very next episode, Jack, when area goes off about jaws, they never officially state it, but like you've got like Franchi starts playing the jaws theme in the background and they're talking about it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But it's just, it's funny.
Speaker: Cause I want to address these two things really quick.
Speaker: Um, actually how, how was Sonic spin ball when you played it?
Speaker: Scott,
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I think solid spin ball was an amazing home brew integration of a theme.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: He did a great job of making it feel like the classic Sonic game that I grew up with.
Speaker: I mean, that's the reason why I bought my Sega Genesis.
Speaker: Yeah, was because what Sonic the Hedgehog, that first game was, it was a big step above the old Nintendo Entertainment System.
Speaker: Like that's what pushed Nintendo to do Super Nintendo.
Speaker: That was an 8-bit to 16-bit.
Speaker: Um, and he did such a great job of integrating it, making it feel like this was a full game.
Speaker: And so it felt like something with, with licensing, with, um, with creative freedom, with being able to use, um, a good art team.
Speaker: And I talked to him about it.
Speaker: He said, well, I chose Sonic because Sega was basically free, um,
Speaker: to let me do whatever I wanted as long as it was a fan project.
Speaker: Well, they gave him all the assets and everything.
Speaker: They were just like, here you go.
Speaker: Or they said, yeah, you can use the assets.
Speaker: It's fine.
Speaker: It's not a production game.
Speaker: And so I would say that the vibe of it was amazing.
Speaker: The flow, it felt like a first draft.
Speaker: It felt like it was, you know, okay, it's a fun game.
Speaker: It's getting something done.
Speaker: But if you were to step that away from a homebrew and actually make a production game, you're going to want to make some changes.
Speaker: If I remember correctly, the ramp on it was gigantic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if, if you didn't hit the ramp, then you, you had to have been blind, deaf or dumb.
Speaker: But the point being is, is it's probably not.
Speaker: That's a, that's a pinball wizard reference just in case people don't come back with me with pitchforks kids.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But the point being is I don't feel like the bar was unattainable with creating another Sonic product over Ryan McQuaid's.
Speaker: His is amazing.
Speaker: His theming integration is just... No, it's great, but it's the same as like the Led Zeppelin home theme or the Iron Maiden home theme.
Speaker: Like that live after death Iron Maiden game.
Speaker: It's a great integration of assets.
Speaker: But that's the vibe that you're getting.
Speaker: It has nothing to do with gameplay.
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: I know that Ellen has been on our show.
Speaker: I can't remember if this was our Jurassic Park episode.
Speaker: I don't think it was Jurassic Park because when we did Jurassic Park, it hadn't been out yet.
Speaker: We just kind of teased it a lot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Based off all the rumors we've been hearing.
Speaker: And to be fair, he didn't talk about it at all.
Speaker: Like we, we had just heard the rumors that it was going to be that, but we didn't talk about it at all.
Speaker: So it was actually the Avengers episode.
Speaker: Then we got talking about because the code name for Jurassic Park was Jaws.
Speaker: And, you know, we got talking about Jaws and that theme as a whole.
Speaker: And Keith Elwin shared on the show that Stern had the opportunity to do Jaws, but all they had was the shark.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He didn't even bring up if they had like music or anything like that.
Speaker: And it's like, okay, so make a Sharknado game.
Speaker: Like, who cares?
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So we talked about that on the episode.
Speaker: If you guys want to check it out, go back.
Speaker: It's our Avengers episode.
Speaker: I can't remember this exact tile.
Speaker: You can't miss it, though.
Speaker: It's Keith Elwin and Avengers.
Speaker: But it's funny to me because like then Jack Guarneri goes off about Jaws.
Speaker: you know, uh, rumor ish and, and like how, how another company, I think they made said Stern kind of stole it from him.
Speaker: But I'm like, I mean, granted Keith's not going to come out on our podcast and say, yeah, we have jaws and, and we're going to make it.
Speaker: But what Jack was saying was almost what Keith was saying as well.
Speaker: Like Jack said, the only rights they could get was pretty much the movie poster.
Speaker: And there was not really much rights to the jaws.
Speaker: So if we're hearing, you know, it looks like a duck sounds like a duck.
Speaker: Does Stern really have Jaws?
Speaker: Are they going to attempt a Jurassic Park where they can only do dinosaurs, a.k.a.
Speaker: sharks, and maybe one person that doesn't really have to deal with the main plot of the – well, I guess Nedry is the main plot of the movie.
Speaker: But they covered three of the movies and one pin.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's weird to me.
Speaker: It's weird that we've –
Speaker: is it we're just so starved for rumors that like we forget the stuff that's been said in the past?
Speaker: Like, I don't know.
Speaker: It just, it's really weird.
Speaker: It is what it is.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And we don't know the ins and outs of licensing because that is a, a completely different discussion in that, um, it, if American pinball doesn't have Sonic, which it sounds like they don't like, how did that happen?
Speaker: Because it,
Speaker: A lot of times what happens is they'll go and negotiate with some of these licensing people.
Speaker: And it's not like the people who are at Sega are thinking, oh, well, you're the first pinball company that talked to us.
Speaker: So we're just going to go with your offer.
Speaker: Like you don't think Sega has a stake in the game.
Speaker: You don't think Sega is going to say, hey, if there's going to be a pinball machine, how about we go?
Speaker: talk to the different pinball manufacturers and see which offer we like well and i'm like why wouldn't they go with stern i mean they used to be sega like i don't know it's just it is what it is i'm just is it possible sure now the one thing is that and i know that a homebrew game but on sonic you have to have like a loop-de-loop you have to yeah and and i think ryan would
Speaker: would agree with that, but it was, it was probably a little too more, too complex for a homebrew for him to do.
Speaker: But I've, I said the same thing about, um, um, about Hot Wheels.
Speaker: Hot Wheels should have had a loop to loop.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or at least like the NASCAR around the track kind of thing around.
Speaker: No, I'm thinking like a loop to, I see, I'm thinking like pinball magic, pinball magic had a loop to loop on the plunge.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Well, this one had the loop de loop on his home project, uh, kind of the catapult into medieval madness.
Speaker: And it shots up, shoots up through that loop de loops, even the same side and everything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm excited.
Speaker: Regardless.
Speaker: I'm a huge, I enjoy Sonic.
Speaker: So it's not a hard thing to push into my family.
Speaker: It would be a great thing.
Speaker: I love the first movie.
Speaker: The first movie, I went in with zero expectations and I had a blast.
Speaker: Second movie was like, yeah, okay.
Speaker: It's a,
Speaker: It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.
Speaker: It wasn't Despicable Me 3.
Speaker: Another one that would actually be great is a Minions game.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: But I guess that's your rumors.
Speaker: I don't know what else to say to that.
Speaker: It was weird.
Speaker: I kind of want to address them because I'm like, I think we are... Sometimes the pinball community has the memory of a goldfish.
Speaker: Well, I think they also get pretty territorial on it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You'll get people who are like, look, I was the one who started this rumor or I was the one who broke the story.
Speaker: Well, okay, you break enough stories and one of them actually sticks.
Speaker: It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to go on your batting average.
Speaker: But I will say the positive thing about it is that that means there's interest.
Speaker: If no one were talking about rumors, then people wouldn't care.
Speaker: You wouldn't be able to sell a $12,000 pinball machine.
Speaker: I agree because no one would care.
Speaker: And it's crazy that we are in a place where a $12,000 pinball machine did sell.
Speaker: I mean, all those, all the seeds are gone and, and whatnot, but it just, it, it's crazy.
Speaker: Cause before, before, let's say the research of what, six years ago,
Speaker: The only thing that really sold above that was Me Evil Madness before the remakes, Big Bang Bar, and I don't know if there's really much.
Speaker: Maybe Attack from Mars.
Speaker: But most of these games were not five figures.
Speaker: But I guess we're not worried about that anymore because the market's starting to come back down.
Speaker: Yeah, the market will always correct.
Speaker: The market will always do what the market will need to do.
Speaker: And if the companies don't take a proactive approach on the market, then the, then the aftermarket does.
Speaker: This is the, this is the argument on ticket sales where people are complaining about Taylor Swift tickets are, they're selling them for 250 bucks.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, well, if that's what the market demand, that may not be your price, but your price is not market price.
Speaker: Like market price is what someone is willing to pay for that.
Speaker: Like a golf outing with Bono isn't worth $25,000 for me, but it would be for someone.
Speaker: So that, that, that's the, that's where people mistake.
Speaker: They mistake their personal market with the collective market.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: If you want to go listen to those interviews, they were good interviews.
Speaker: I always enjoy Christian Line.
Speaker: It's cool to see that they have Jeff Parsons on there now.
Speaker: He's bringing the radio personality to that show.
Speaker: It's pretty good.
Speaker: We need to give Jason Knapp crap for coming through Utah and not stopping by to say hello.
Speaker: Yeah, Jason Knapp.
Speaker: I thought we were friends, but apparently no.
Speaker: Apparently not.
Speaker: He's on the dead to me list.
Speaker: We're getting pictures from NAP Arcade's Facebook page of being in Utah.
Speaker: I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker: Something's not right here.
Speaker: Okay, so a little update on Pinball Expo and flipping the script.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: So we decided that my family's actually coming to Expo.
Speaker: At least we're coming to Illinois.
Speaker: We ended up with some airline miles or at least credit that we forgot we had because we canceled a trip two years ago.
Speaker: And we started thinking about it.
Speaker: I'm like, well, I'm going to Expo and there's a Great Wolf Lodge.
Speaker: roughly an hour away.
Speaker: And so we are going to take the kids and go up there and I'll, I'll be splitting time between expo and a great wolf lodge, but it will be, it'll be fun to have the family there and maybe, maybe be able to sneak them in for a day at the expo so they can see what's going on.
Speaker: What, what is this little thing?
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Great wolf lodge.
Speaker: So it's basically an indoor water park.
Speaker: It's, it's like a lodge that you go and you, it's, it's like an amusement park with water, but it's all inside.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: So it's a, it's a great family, uh, family shindig.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Well, that'll be fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so we, uh, with flipping the script, we've got the tentative schedule all done.
Speaker: So, uh, I'm just waiting for some more yeses and I think we'll be ready for streaming schedule and
Speaker: I think Internet's figured out.
Speaker: I really want to give another shout to George Fisher and Amanda Hamilton.
Speaker: They have been fantastic with helping with all the little details and being gung-ho on this.
Speaker: Man, I'm getting excited.
Speaker: We're less than three months away.
Speaker: It's going to be here quick.
Speaker: We had two more additions to people I'll be hosting with us.
Speaker: I'm so excited for this as well.
Speaker: Jen Rupert of No Coin Drop Required.
Speaker: She's going to be helping out and doing hosting some time.
Speaker: with flipping the script and same with Craig Bobby.
Speaker: So those two are great additions to the team on the flipping the script stream.
Speaker: I'm excited for that as well.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: That's all that's on my mind right now is because I swear that's all I've been doing for the last two weeks.
Speaker: Again, we are super excited just because the, um, the response has been,
Speaker: Bigger than I could have anticipated.
Speaker: I guess I'll put it that way.
Speaker: So I'm really excited about being able to, uh, to do this and, and it makes me feel good knowing it's to, uh, a charity that's near and dear to your heart, Josh, that, that makes it even more personal.
Speaker: So, Oh yeah.
Speaker: Well, and, and I'm just glad that we can be helping, helping learning solutions out and so they can keep helping those kids with their early intervention for the autism.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What are we looking forward to in the next month?
Speaker: What are you anticipating?
Speaker: In August?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I think we see one new game from Stern before Expo, and we'll be able to play it at Expo.
Speaker: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker: That's my guesstimation there.
Speaker: I'm going to say it's a pretty solid guest, too.
Speaker: It's a pretty solid.
Speaker: Hey, we can start a rumor right now.
Speaker: Rumor is Stern's new release will be at Expo.
Speaker: Well, I don't, I, they typically have not tried to release it at, um, X and I, I, I don't think they're releasing at X though.
Speaker: They'll release before X. I think we'll be able to play it at X. Oh, yes.
Speaker: And you'll play at X. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Um, I don't know if anyone else will have anything out by then.
Speaker: Uh, no, I, I don't think so.
Speaker: Um, well, you never know.
Speaker: American pinball could, could come out and do something.
Speaker: And you never know.
Speaker: JJP.
Speaker: I would be surprised.
Speaker: I would be shocked if JJP had another one come out.
Speaker: I, I I'm waiting to see them release a game a year.
Speaker: That's what I'm waiting for.
Speaker: But other than that, yeah, I'm, I'm totally looking for, I'm looking forward to, to playing a lot more pinball and really looking forward to again,
Speaker: I hope that you took my feedback on Rush and on Stern's support in the correct way.
Speaker: Like I'm hoping they are being as transparent as they possibly can.
Speaker: And I am just, I'm projecting my frustration that I haven't been able to play the game yet.
Speaker: I get you.
Speaker: And they're all good customer service.
Speaker: It's just, it's hard sometimes because you have an excitement for this game and you want to play it.
Speaker: Well, it's a little bit like, yeah, it's like Wonka.
Speaker: I want it now.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But daddy, I want some noompa loompa now.
Speaker: So, all right.
Speaker: Well, if you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: If you want to get ahold of us on the socials, we are at loser kid pinball on Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, and Facebook.
Speaker: that's the best way to get a hold of us.
Speaker: I know that we've got a bunch of hats that are being ordered.
Speaker: They're probably going to be set aside for Expo, with Expo only being a couple months away, and it's taking a pain in the butt to get a hold of these hats nowadays.
Speaker: I just ordered... How many did I order?
Speaker: I ordered 15 or 10 each.
Speaker: Yeah, you did 20 total.
Speaker: Yeah, and you're getting yours, and that's not even including what we're going to bring to Expo.
Speaker: Yeah, so I'm pretty excited.
Speaker: We'll be locked, cocked, and ready to rock for a good show.
Speaker: Got anything else for us, Scott, before we sign off?
Speaker: No, I think we're great.
Speaker: I will definitely give you an update when I get that rush flipping because I know it's going to be a great game when I get it dialed in.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: And then if you haven't done so, you should go check out Triple Drain, especially this last episode.
Speaker: It was kind of good shenanigans.
Speaker: Well, I guess I'll see you in two weeks maybe, Scott.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Happy birthday tomorrow.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
