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The Hidden Power Beneath Your Home: Geothermal Energy in Real Estate
0 Playsin 15 hours
In this episode Matt sits down with Justin Coleman from Ground Loop Heating & Air to uncover one of the best-kept secrets in home energy efficiency: geothermal heating and cooling.
From cutting energy bills by up to 80% to outlasting traditional HVAC systems twofold, geothermal technology is redefining what it means to live sustainably—without sacrificing comfort. Matt and Justin dive into how it works, when it makes sense (and when it doesn’t), and why solar panels often fail to add real estate value while geothermal can quietly pay for itself.
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Transcript
Introduction: Solar Panels and Real Estate
00:00:00
Speaker
So when people are considering solar for their home, as a real estate agent, it actually, i can't, to be honest, it's not a plus. On average, it's a negative. And I hate to say that out loud. On average, no one's going to give you $5 more for your home because you have solar. However, I believe what you're offering is likely to have less maintenance, likely to have less wear and tear, and likely to...
00:00:22
Speaker
outlive whoever is about to purchase I just, the combination, and you don't have to deal with the install. It's all done for you, and you just, instead of spending 500 month, now you're gonna have 250 month or 200 a month.
Podcast Introduction: Energy-Saving Focus
00:00:39
Speaker
Hello and welcome everyone. This is Matt Ryan. I'm your host and all roads lead to real estate. And I have another episode here um that I'm excited to talk about because it's something that's organic. It's natural in terms of my progression of knowledge that I had. And so I've met my guest who was with me today. His name is Justin Coleman.
00:01:01
Speaker
And Justin, first off, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. All right. Well, thank you once again. And so I twisted his arm and got him in here because i wanted to learn more about how to reduce my historic, old, big homes energy bill here.
Baltimore's Rising Energy Costs
00:01:18
Speaker
It's outrageous. I've complained to anyone who's in earshot of me over the last five years of living in that home. I love the home, but it is a consumer of energy like crazy. And I know I'm not alone because the bills were here in the Baltimore area. So BGE is our gas and electric supplier and the bills have not gotten lower lately for all of us in terms of what we're expecting. and for In fact, we're getting notices now Yeah. To notify us again to that. Hey, by the way, bills are going to have a sharp increase again yeah this winter. So I don't
Introducing Geothermal HVAC Systems
00:01:52
Speaker
know. Have you received that notice? Yeah. Well, I have. I live in Baltimore City as well. So it's it's an ongoing battle.
00:01:57
Speaker
um And that's part of, you know, I know why you brought me out and ye talk about geothermal, try to reduce those bills, also help out the environment a little bit. um But, yeah, that's kind of where we are this day in the world. And we're trying to do everything we can to make it a little bit better and help the consumer save some money.
00:02:12
Speaker
Well, so if you're interested in saving some money, you might want to listen to this because, you know, I've been doing real estate going on almost 20 years now. And the number of times I've I've ran into an inspection, let's call it, on a home that I was selling that had what we're about to discuss today.
How Geothermal Systems Work
00:02:29
Speaker
it's It's low. like this is This is not something that's super common, and I think most people, I mean, I'm assuming, right? and but mo Many of my clients don't understand it, and to be quite frank, i didn't fully understand it until you and I had a long discussion, and I had you out, but the topic, guys, is geothermal HVAC.
00:02:46
Speaker
Correct. And so if you've ever Googled it or if you've ever tried to look into ways to save money on your own energy bill or to lower your a consumption of energy, right? So in to just be more green. Correct.
00:03:00
Speaker
um This is a company you need to know about. So Justin is with a company called Ground Loop Heating and Air. And he just went through and told me a little bit about the history of the company right before we jumped on. But it's an 80-year-old business, roughly, third generation. It's based here in Maryland in Harford County.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yep. And so I just want to get into all of that. But first off, if you've never... ah Fully understood what this is, or if you want to potentially upgrade your current HVAC system and you just want to get the standard stuff, you do those as well, right? Just your normal gas, your normal electric heat pump.
00:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and And to not bore people with this, but how your traditional system works, you know, you have gas, you have oil, you're burning those propane, or you have a conventional heat pump or an air conditioning, which is using outside air temperature to bring that in through refrigeration cycle, cooling it down, heating it up.
00:03:52
Speaker
Obviously, when you're taking those outside air temperatures over 100 degrees, below 30 degrees, you're trying to heat that up or cool that down. It's it's almost in reverse the way the concept is.
00:04:03
Speaker
Right. So it's it's using a lot of energy. Obviously, the burning of gas oil, those things are not good. ah Geothermal pretty much eliminates all of that by using the ground to do the majority of the work. So let's break it, let's start right there because I think I, you know, even just discussing this with my wife, but it like just stopping and going, well, what is it specifically? Because that's the that's a challenge. I think, I don't know like i think I'm assuming, right, you're also in sales.
00:04:29
Speaker
I say, ah is that a third of your job is making sure people are educated because they have to understand the value in what you're presenting? Yeah, that's that's a good point. it's It's probably a third of explaining it. right The other third is managing expectations because it is a big project or um compared to your property and inside the house, et cetera.
00:04:48
Speaker
um That shouldn't scare you off. but but's It's simple, but there's a lot a lot of moving parts. and So yeah, in terms of how it works is is basically when you hear geothermal, first thing that comes to mind is the ground.
00:04:59
Speaker
you know That's what people are thinking about, and that's exactly right. ah The easy way to explain it is we're just moving heat around. We're taking the air in your house and we're kind of moving it out to the ground. We're pulling heat from the ground in the wintertime. We're putting heat into the ground in the summertime.
00:05:13
Speaker
And that ground is a constant 50 to 60 degrees all year round. but We go down deep enough. So then the refrigeration cycle can take that 50 to 60 degrees. heat it up, cool it down, and that's what makes it so much more viable than a conventional air source
Cost Efficiency of Geothermal Systems
00:05:28
Speaker
heat pump.
00:05:28
Speaker
And let's just think about it. In a best case scenario, best case, what kind of percent savings if you if you install this, is it 70%? I think that's what you floated with me. Like best case scenario, 70 or even 80% sometimes? Yeah. Reduction in...
00:05:42
Speaker
energy cost Yeah, typically I'd say anywhere from as low as 50%, but that's probably the lowest you're going to see as high as 80% in some cases. um Each house obviously is different as you well know. oh yeah um you know A lot depends on insulation, air sealing. Some people you know talk about, and I don't want to get off on a tangent,
00:06:01
Speaker
you know gas, oil, better heat. It's not a geothermal problem. It's usually a housing problem, as you know we talked about a little bit with your house you know and and those types of things. well And I want to also preface it that I'll give you some credit here. You're here because I think I i trusted you through the process, either meeting me at my own home you you obviously you're in the position to sell a product. However, you looked at what I had going on with multiple heating and cooling systems, an old home, it's not connected properly, everything's mismatched and you know it's it's been worked on over the years, over all different generations. And you you really said, I'm probably not a great candidate for this. Yeah, I i always say this, and you may remember, I ah treat every home like it's my home, my friends and family's home. yeah
00:06:44
Speaker
And it has to be viable. It is viable in most places, in most cases, most houses. um Your house, as we know, is is is difficult with all those different systems. And when does the price start to get to the point of, wow, this isn't really fixing a problem. It's helping, but is it is it worth it at that point?
00:07:04
Speaker
So let's
When Geothermal Isn't the Best Choice
00:07:05
Speaker
let's go back. So first off, that gave you tremendous credit in my eyes to be honest and truthful with me. Appreciate it. But I have other folks in that certainly would be good candidates. And I want to, first off, just list before we get into geo, explain to people what a traditional...
00:07:20
Speaker
gas, you know, gas fired furnace or a heat pump electric. Sure. Go into those two just briefly and then let's compare what that's, you know, how those work compared to geothermal options. Sure. Single family home, you know, is typical. You have some sort of system in the basement, you know, it could be a gas furnace, ah oil furnace. You could have just a conventional heat pump or the furnace with the AC with the outside unit, which everybody always calls it.
00:07:44
Speaker
um I try to speak in you know, as layman terms as I can just to make sure people know what I'm talking about. So that is typically your conventional system. It's heating and cooling and it's doing the whole house. There's duct work throughout the whole house.
00:07:58
Speaker
So that is type a You know,
Comparing Traditional and Geothermal HVAC
00:08:01
Speaker
that's what we want in terms of geothermal. That is number one. That's very simple. It's a replacement. We replace the indoor and outdoor unit. There is no outdoor unit with geothermal and it just takes the place of your current system and it's about the same footprint.
00:08:13
Speaker
interesting okay There's different variations. you know For instance, you have a boiler. Boiler gets a little bit more technical um in terms of what we do. Older houses get a little bit more technical in what we do. You can have two systems in a single family home, one in the attic, one on the first floor.
00:08:28
Speaker
No problem whatsoever with geothermal. We replace them both, um connect them, and you know gets it up and running and everything. saves you a ton of money. Right, and so the big difference here is that you're, and you've already mentioned it, but I just want to go over it once again because I still think, even though you've said it, i don't know if everyone understood it because I'm telling you it's difficult for some people because I've tried to explain this to clients.
00:08:50
Speaker
So the big difference, once again, is the lines that you're running outside of the home that are underground, so this is going to require some level of excavation. And so how how large, say a traditional 2,500 square foot detached, like a standard issue colonial.
00:09:06
Speaker
Sure. So how large of a space are we talking about outside?
Installation and Visual Impact
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah, so there's, and I'm going to try and like start from, you know, a larger view. There's three main steps in geothermal. Okay.
00:09:17
Speaker
It is the piping in the ground itself, and then it is the trenching into the house itself, usually in a basement, and then it is the units themselves, the geothermal heat pumps. Now, the outside, the piping in the ground, there's two ways. it Well, there's three ways of doing it, but the two main ways are vertical.
00:09:32
Speaker
You drill down just like a water well. um We're not looking for water. We're prepared for all that. It's usually either mud rotary, which is water, or it's rock. And how far down on average do we go? We go about 160 feet per ton.
00:09:44
Speaker
um It's inch and a quarter. It's polyethylene piping. It has a 50-year warranty. It's rated for like 120 years. i always joke it'll outlive all of us. It's down there. Yeah. um so vertical is probably about 80 of what we do because people do not have the space for horizontal um i'll get to horizontal in just a second but what we do with that vertical is we put something called a bentonite grout and it's getting a little technical it hardens around the pipe it protects the pipe it acts as a conductor as well helping with that heat exchange in the ground so that's vertical horizontal you need a lot more space i usually say ah the house you described 2500 square square feet you probably need about half a football field
00:10:20
Speaker
We're doing one trench per ton, which tonnage is how we rate these units. So for example, you could have a four ton heat pump that does your whole house. um So you need four trenches spaced out a certain amount of feet, eight to 10 feet.
00:10:34
Speaker
They're four feet deep. The benefit, it's less expensive because you don't need to bring out a well driller. um The disadvantage is it takes up a lot of space. And then from there, that's where you do the trenching into the home itself.
00:10:45
Speaker
So either way, vertical or horizontal, you still have to bring it into the house and then you still have to do the units inside. But once again, after you're done, you've done the trenching, you've laid all the pipe that you have to lay, it's going to, the dirt goes on top, it's going to be re-sodded or however they want to landscape.
00:10:59
Speaker
So for, in a year, let's call it when it, when Mother Nature does its thing, the average person's not going to see anything. 100%. We clean everything up. We bring back to what we call a rough grade. um It's ready for seeding and straw. We don't do that, but that is, you know, it's recommended. Each property is different.
00:11:16
Speaker
um Some come back pretty fast. Some you can put effort into it. We do recommend that you let it sit at least a couple weeks minimum because if you go out and neutral I've seen it before, you try to do it right away. Sod, things will start to get a little funky. you know So we just say let it settle and that's kind of how we leave it just with weather and everything that happens. Got it.
00:11:34
Speaker
Okay, and so how long a project are we
Installation Timeline
00:11:36
Speaker
talking about? Sure. That's the interesting, because geothermal, I always tell people, I hate saying the word floating schedule, but there's so many things that we're dependent on.
00:11:45
Speaker
um First thing, and i'm going to I'm going to come from a vertical perspective, because that is the majority of what we do. Okay. um We have to get the permit for well drilling. Each county is different. Some counties, it's a month, a month and a half.
00:11:57
Speaker
Other counties, Baltimore County, giving you examples, pretty quick, usually a week or two. Um, once the drilling is done, they're usually one to two days. Then we get on the trenching schedule. That's when we come in and we do the trench. It's usually one to two days. And then I usually say three to seven days for the, for each unit inside, depending, just depends on how, what's going on with the duct work. So the whole process over a timeline,
00:12:20
Speaker
can be roughly a month and a half to three months. Right. Just depends on where scheduling is with certain things and in counties. Got it. And so about a month and a half, let's call it two months, whatever. So that makes sense. And so this is not inexpensive. So when I think about my options, it's simple math. And i think when energy costs were lower, maybe there would be less demand for something like this because even townhomes that I sell, they used to be $100, $125, call it an energy
Cost and Incentives for Geothermal Systems
00:12:48
Speaker
a month.
00:12:48
Speaker
yeah the average town home now is over $300 a month. And that's a town home. And so then when you get in with some of these larger homes, you're talking anywhere from 500 to 1,000 a month.
00:13:00
Speaker
And then some of yet the more challenging homes like mine are well over $1,000 a month. yeah And so I think the need and the the questions related to geothermal as a the viable, the viable option is going to come up.
00:13:13
Speaker
And so the math most people are going to want to have is to say, OK, give me an idea of the hard cost. And this gets complicated, guys, because there are various incentives or there's tax rebates. There's a there's.
00:13:25
Speaker
And it's changing, of course. Administrations do change. They often will change then the incentives that will change all the financials about were what we're about to discuss. Correct. But let's, first off, let's ignore the incentives just for a moment.
00:13:39
Speaker
What is, once again, not your most challenging home, like your standard 2,500 square foot house? Like what's a what's a realistic bill? Sure. Give me a range. Sure, and in terms, are you talking about the energy bill?
00:13:52
Speaker
No, we can do both. i yeah I think most people are gonna first off wanna know, okay, they know what their current bills are. they' I think, and that's what I wanted to know. Give me an idea what this might cost me. Sure.
00:14:02
Speaker
Because I have to do the math as to how many years it's gonna take to recoup this. Exactly. Yeah, and so it depends horizontal, vertical. I usually like to give those two. So you can be looking anywhere from $35,000 to as high as maybe $55,000. I know that's a large range, but there is a big difference in terms of horizontal versus vertical. It also depends, obviously, on the tonnage. you know The more tonnage, the more expensive it becomes. Gotcha.
00:14:25
Speaker
um And that's just because well driller charges by the foot. You have to do more footage for the bigger the house. So um but average, I would say, is probably in that forty five thousand dollar range if I had to put one number on it. OK.
00:14:37
Speaker
And again, you know that will go into the other the other things that makes it viable compared to if you're looking at conventional system replacing what you have like with like. you can already be in the $15,000 to $20,000 range right there. right And once you talk about the incentives, that's why people say, oh, it makes more sense for me to do geothermal than conventional.
00:14:58
Speaker
Well, and think if given the option, if there are two very similar priced options, one of them is more green, let's call it. Like if you're an electric vehicle fan, I think electric vehicles aren't gonna mainstream for everyone. Even though most of us wanna be good you know to the environment, it it comes back to cost.
00:15:15
Speaker
And if it's triple the price, it's gonna be challenging for most people to adopt. yep But in your situation, if it's 45,000, I know there's incentives. What's our current incentives, but not in the future, let's just say today, and we're recording in September 2025. So give me a a snapshot in time of what our current incentives would be like. Let's just freeze this time period. That would be great for me. yeah um So first off, you get the 30% federal rebate.
00:15:39
Speaker
That's not based on income, not based on anything. It is a flat rebate right back on your taxes off of my bill. it's close to 15,000 bucks right there. Correct. Correct. um For most people. Yeah. ah State, that forgive me, there is no state grant right now. That just went away.
00:15:53
Speaker
um County credits, pretty much the majority of counties in the state of Maryland have a county credit. um For instance, Baltimore County has a $5,000 property tax credit. It usually does not pay out in the first year. It's $2,500 the following and $2,500 the next year.
00:16:07
Speaker
okay BG&E, for all the things they're doing to us right now, um the utility rebate is different and depending on the system you have. A conventional heat pump, you're going to get $3,000 for that.
00:16:20
Speaker
um If you have any sort of fossil fuel, you are going to get. your current, what you're replacing? Forgive me. Yes, your current one. Yes. Thanks, man. um So your current system, if it's any fossil fuel, you get $7,000 for that. And then they're going to give you an additional $3,000 for what they call an electrification credit.
00:16:37
Speaker
And that is basically to give you some money in case you have to upgrade your electric panel. Now, 9 out of 10 of my customers do not have to upgrade the electric panel, but you still get that credit anyway.
00:16:48
Speaker
ah So the utility credit, you know, roughly anywhere from three thousand to ten thousand, the 30 percent, the county credit. Those are what we call the initial credits. Usually they're in the first year. um And that's when we talk about that forty five thousand dollars.
00:17:03
Speaker
well, we could be already down into the $20,000 below $20,000 range just in the first year. And to me, if you're listening, like that is a remarkable difference because it's traditional. Even the cheapest HVAC guy you can find is going to cost well over $10,000 typically to replace the system. yep And it could certainly be more than that, especially if you get a brand name that's adds a little badging premium to it and so forth. And Lord, God help you if you actually call someone that advertises anywhere, because you're going to pay an extra 30% for that. So it could be 15,000 plus compared to maybe something that you might offer after the first year, that's maybe 20.
00:17:40
Speaker
Correct. And so I think that alone, if we had a soundbite, that alone makes it a lot more agreeable or digestible compared to what and I'm telling you, a lot of people just assume this isn't an option. It's so expensive.
00:17:53
Speaker
Well, it could be. But also, someone's got to have the money
Financing and Managing Rebates
00:17:57
Speaker
up front. So what if I don't have $45,000 in my bank account? Sure. Yeah, we have financing options available. We have a lot of people.
00:18:04
Speaker
We do a 12-month, same as cash, one year, 0%. We also have another program, ah no payments for six months, 5, 10, 15-year loan program. um when you When you break it down, the majority of my customers, when you're looking at numbers,
00:18:21
Speaker
the number after the initial rebates on the geothermal compared to a conventional quote, it it is right there. there's There's maybe a couple thousand dollar difference, but it is right there. And then if we progress and we talk about down the road,
00:18:36
Speaker
Energy savings, yes, we're not even talking about them. The other rebate we have, and Maryland has the rebate, it's renewable energy credits, which a lot of people are gonna hear that, they're gonna think solar. 100% correct, it's been around for solar for years and years, it came through for geothermal at the beginning of 2023. This is money you're gonna get the lifespan of the unit.
00:18:56
Speaker
And there's a formula that, you know, it's based off of square footage and what you currently have for heating and hot water ah going to a geothermal system that you are going to get money every quarter, every year um to help pay for the system.
00:19:10
Speaker
You know, and the majority of my customers, The payback period is usually five years or less. It just varies. you know A guy who has an oil furnace that's using $5,000 a year in oil will shoot, go over three years and that's saving you $15,000 right there.
00:19:25
Speaker
So there's a lot more you can get into and I'm not trying to overwhelm people with all this, but there's- Well, what's a traditional credit? I know I like to do averages, which kind of stinks, but I always like to know. No, if we go over your 2,500 square foot house and you're talking about, let's just say it's a gas furnace, any fossil fuel, you're going to get a bigger payout on the renewable energy credits.
00:19:44
Speaker
We're getting roughly about $90 per one. That house is probably going to generate the neighborhood of 40 to 50. So you're looking at additional probably three to four grand a year, um you know that first year.
00:19:56
Speaker
Over the years, that number is going to drop. It's not dropping from 90 to like $20 per one renewable energy credit, but it will drop slowly over time. So I have a projection over, I give you 10 years okay of what we anticipate we think you're going to get.
00:20:11
Speaker
And so and for a general home, if it's four grand the first year, what what do you project in 10 years? Should I get back a renewable? Yeah, that's. um You just give me an estimate. should have done some. You know, I was grilling. You didn't. Yeah. and That's ah probably going to be roughly like 20 25 over a 10 period.
00:20:26
Speaker
over a ten year period um So that's- So if my system after the first year rebates cost me roughly 20 and I'm getting 25,000 over 10 years if I stay there for 10 years, first off, are those credits transferable to the next donor in KSSL? Yes, they are.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah. Great question. Yes, they are. So it could be a net zero or maybe a net positive in terms of just the hard costs, not the energy savings. You got it. I love where you went with that because we're not even talking about energy savings yet. This is just rebates, just rebates. This is it.
00:20:57
Speaker
When you start doing the math, it's just it's pretty remarkable. And if I could get zero percent financing for a year to give me the opportunity to get all these incentives and to save on my taxes, then I could either pay off or pay dramatically down the cost of the system.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yep. Before I have to do anything related to financing or 100% correct. And we we help you with all that. We help you with all the rebates. You know, Caitlin in my office sends your rebate package, hard copy, digital copy.
00:21:23
Speaker
um Any questions you have, we just walk you through all of it. This sounds like I'm doing an infomercial for you, but I promise you people I'm not. like It's actually mesmerizing because this is the first time I've done the math.
00:21:34
Speaker
And it's just I consistently hear it's too darn expensive. I'm not doing it. And it's the number of times people even consider it as an option. It's so infrequently, at least in my world. I know this is all you do. You do 13 sales calls a day, but it's just not something that I typically hear.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's almost like a luxury item. The homes that I've sold that have this are traditionally much more expensive than others. Yeah. And that that's there there was but ah a few years ago, i I felt it there was a more of a transition in the industry where I think it was a feeling of, oh, it's an upscale item um that has stopped dramatically over the last few years. And I think part of that is energy costs. But part of that is education.
00:22:17
Speaker
you know people realizing, oh, wait, I can't afford this. This isn't. Yes, it's expensive, but it's not you know compared to a conventional system. It's not. And when you break down the numbers, you just have to break them down and have somebody explain it to you like myself. um Sometimes I do an OK job. you know Other times, maybe not. You're doing right. You're doing all right right now. But I mean, let's get into real quick, just some of the costs. So the average detached single family, 2,500 square foot house is going to be 300 plus, maybe $500 in that range during the winter for sure.
00:22:46
Speaker
And um i some people freak out when I tell them these numbers, if they've lived in a townhouse or an apartment and they're buying their first, i you know I call it like their big boy home. Sure. And it's...
00:22:57
Speaker
It's, ah yeah, you have to budget. Like the last thing I want to do is get someone inside of a home as a realtor and then they look at their monthly expenses and go, what is happening? Oh yeah, absolutely. You have to, you know, you got to pay to have the grass cut if you're not cutting it. Like, you know, what's Oprah say? If you don't have a maid, you are the maid. Yeah. You got to... yeah You know, you have to ah do the math here, but if if your bills are more expensive, you could save at least $100, $200, $300 a month conservatively, especially during your high energy
Understanding Geothermal Efficiency
00:23:25
Speaker
use months.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. it it's, you know, like we said, it's it's anywhere from 50 to 80%. The cooling bill drops dramatically. um I like to say it's the best form of air conditioning on the planet. If that, you know, water temperature in the ground is 55, typically coming out of vents is around 45.
00:23:41
Speaker
The heat pump's not doing that much work to begin with. um So we really in the summertime, the wintertime, yes. And it it just depends on what you are because there's more variables in winter, all the different types of fuel you can use for that and and electric heat.
00:23:55
Speaker
Do most people understand the concept that the temperature underneath the ground at a certain level is a constant steady temperature? Or do most people not know that? You know, it's it's funny, Matt. The majority of people... i When I first started this years ago, I thought that was going to be, oh, I really got to get into all the science behind this. And no, people are just kind of, i guess, that makes sense yeah they're like, yeah, that makes sense. Once you get below the frost line, you're kind of right there. You know, it's not like we live in a volatile area. yeah um So, yeah, that's that's actually not the big question. It's usually kind of the stuff we're talking about, energy savings. How does this work? What's it good? Like I said, I'd say almost 50 percent of my job is just managing expectations of how the project goes.
00:24:33
Speaker
Right. Because there's just a lot of movement. Well, if nothing else, and where I have more questions, but if nothing else, if you get nothing else, if you're in need of a replacement, you should at least consider it and have
Proactive HVAC Replacement Decisions
00:24:44
Speaker
a proper conversation and do the math because I think if you know i think most people are just very quick to replace it when it's broken. And i'll'll be most of it happens, and I get calls constantly because I encourage it from my clients. Like, bug me because I can give you a point of contact at one of my you know, general contractors or specialists, and i like to refer out because that makes, I believe, better value for the client because if I'm important as a referral partner, they, in theory, should take better care of my clients. absolutely And I believe that to be true. I'm like, yes, I'm gonna connect you properly because there is value to you because they're not gonna rip you off because that you know i'm not going to because if I hear about it, it's all over. oh yeah
00:25:23
Speaker
Referral's over. And like like we said, when how we met, and it's one of those ones I always ah preface i'm like i I'm not trying to be negative. i just If this was my house, this is not the best option for you. so its We're going to be honest with you. and you know Even I know new construction, we just talked about it briefly before we started. It's great for new construction too because you never have to worry about that and that bill you know that you're going to get from oil, gas, a conventional heat
Durability and Maintenance of Geothermal Systems
00:25:46
Speaker
pump. and um The other thing is, is these inside, you know, the inside units themselves, they last for, they rate them 25 to 35 years, which is usually about double the lifespan of any kind of conventional system. And is that, because you did mention that to me, and I thought that was an interesting point to to to have.
00:26:03
Speaker
So explain that in more detail. So when you install a geothermal system, the actual, so yes, the piping you already said is rated for at least 50 years, but you said it's, well, you is it warrantied for 50 years? Warrantied for 50 years, but it's up 120. It should outlive all of us.
00:26:19
Speaker
Right. But that's the, okay, that's in the dirt. So, but the actual units themselves, you say they're inside, correct? There's absolutely no heat pump. There's nothing outside, yeah correct? Exactly. So that it's not exposed to the elements. Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
answered your own question. That's exactly what it is. And it's, if the ground's doing the majority of the work for the heat pump itself, the heat pump's working less, um there's things, variable speed, compressors, fans, things like that, that help out with that.
00:26:45
Speaker
um But that's what makes the big difference. There's no outside wear and tear. It's not working as hard. um The ground's doing all the work and it's just water moving through a pipe. That's all it is. That's all it is. Interesting. there's and You don't put chemicals inside that water. You don't, Yeah, there's there's a deal. What we do is we bring out our own what we call loop mix because it's you know, you have the the ground loop. That's our name, obviously, but that's what it's called.
00:27:05
Speaker
um So it's the ionized water. It's clean water. There is an antifreeze mixture in there, but that's it. The reason we use the ionized water, we can't use your city or well water because it'll contaminate. It doesn't evaporate over time. No, no. it's Once it's in there, it's in there. We also have monitoring capabilities where it's not like we're putting it out there and then being like, well, we hope, yeah you know, they will be able to monitor everything, ah airflow, water pressure, temperature, things like that. So we can see if there's an issue.
00:27:30
Speaker
Is there additional maintenance? Do I have to have someone out here every six months, every year? What's a traditional, you know, maintenance schedule look like? Great question. um We give you two two for free in the first year um just to see what that looks like. But it's really just the conventional maintenance. It still has a refrigeration cycle. It still has a fan. It still has the electronic electronic electronic board and everything.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yes, there's a pump, but all that stuff is monitored. Usually we don't have to mess with that. So um yeah, it's it's usually two visits a year if that's what you want. um you don't You don't have to do it. You can see a lot of cool things on your phone you know that you wouldn't be able to see with a conventional system.
00:28:06
Speaker
So in ah once again, if you have a traditional system at home, i this is I probably shocks no one, but it it did me at least in the beginning. Guess the number of average visits most people have in terms of having an HVAC professional come into the home.
00:28:20
Speaker
i This is just an antidote. But yeah, i I could not imagine some people when I go out there and they're like, but they know their systems on their last leg. They're like, we've had the guy out, you know, six times this year to for, you know.
00:28:33
Speaker
put in more refrigerant or check this, check that. Well, that's when there's an issue. yeah I think on average, maybe I'm wrong. It's just, this is what I hear from my sellers when I sell the home. It's zero. Yes. On average, it's zero. That's what I would like to say until there's an issue. I don't have heat.
00:28:47
Speaker
And I think that this is, this is a problem. If I had to create a business and I was going to be ground loops competitor and I was going to have to go against you guys. The challenge is and all this math and all this stuff sounds fabulous, right? It's all good. And it's, you know,
00:29:00
Speaker
Theoretically. Correct. yeah But usually these things fail my clients and I get the call. It's when it's 103 degrees outside and they have a baby at home or they have this or that, you know, that someone's traveling and I'm here watching the kid. It's always ah ah an issue. Yeah.
00:29:15
Speaker
And they need to replace it today. Like I, and the easiest thing to do is just to swap out what's there. Yep. And I think that the the issue or the challenge for many people is if it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it. Yep. Yeah. We all have bills. We have bill. Everyone's got issues.
00:29:30
Speaker
And so I'm just I'm just in my mind, it's like it was a good step even for me to get you out there. I'm like, hey, it's not broken. And I'm talking to you. That's proactive is better than reactive. You know, that's one of the things I've said in the remodeling industry for forever.
00:29:42
Speaker
um It's difficult. I talk about this stuff like it's exciting. you know It is for me, but you know I know it's HVAC.
Energy Costs and Geothermal Interest
00:29:50
Speaker
It's not fun, but you know if you do have questions and you want to bring us out, you know our service department is second to none. I can't tell you how many leads they get me because they go out and it's not just conventional. It's yeah geothermal from 20 years ago.
00:30:02
Speaker
and We go out there and we're like, we don't know how they did this system, but we'll fix it for you if that's what needs to happen. you know and so The service is a big big portion of it, but part of the the the best thing about water furnace, which is the brand of heat pump we use and they're the best in the country.
00:30:17
Speaker
Highly recommend that again. Water water furnace. Yeah, that's the brand. They're out of Fort Wayne, Indiana. um Even if you don't use me as a company, make sure you put in a water furnace. That's what I always tell everybody. But, you know, the big thing is they're designed and they have this system for monitoring where Scott Column, one of the owners and my service manager, if Matt's having an issue, you can call him up and he can look at everything on your system and pretty much diagnose it right there. Oh, it's just this, it's just that, it's a sensor we need to dust off that's you know lighten up. It's very simple for the most part.
00:30:48
Speaker
That's the the the brilliance of the geothermal system. So, i mean that's that's all I mean, it all sounds good. I think i think the reality is um the higher this goes, it's almost like gas prices. i'm I'm into EVs and all that. So it's like the idea that when gas gets cheap, the demand right for electric vehicles go down.
00:31:07
Speaker
And conversely, when gas prices go up, Then everyone's aware and they're because you go to the gas pump and you're like, oh my God, you're staring at it, go up and up and up. And so I feel that in a weird way, when we have higher energy prices, this is going to this is going to this is the greener part of this discussion. Yeah, this is going to help in that regard because heat pumps in general are more efficient just in general, yeah not even than your product, just in general.
00:31:30
Speaker
Correct. And there's limitations to them though that um historically people have occasionally like thought of them as lesser than then let's say a gas-fired furnace or not so much oil anymore. People are kind of doing away with that. yeah But um like how do you combat that? Is this a lesser system in terms of you know if it really gets cold, am I gonna have an issue if it's if we have several days and it's 10 degrees outside?
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a great question. So is gas oil a better heat? Yes and no, depending on how you look at it. I always say when you have those radiators and things, which obviously you know about, it's a crispier, hotter air.
00:32:08
Speaker
And I will say there's nothing better. yeah like Hey, it's they're great. i I would never build a home and put them in there just personally. But if you've ever had that old school, radio like we have the classic, you know, the... but I mean, it's just, they're heavy duty.
00:32:21
Speaker
And the brilliance of that, like we talked about, you can put in a geothermal system and leave that as a backup and you still get everything involved. Well, and yeah that's what I was trying to bring up is that that I thought that was a great idea is that you can add the fancy new system that's super efficient, that 90%, 95% of the time, that's what you use. Yep.
00:32:37
Speaker
But in the worst case scenarios, if like you have a backup. Exactly. we I know, I i think I used this example specifically, but we just, we finished a house off of Roland Avenue, large house, like 4,200 square feet didn't have any ductwork whatsoever in the house. They just have one big boiler, so no air condition.
00:32:54
Speaker
ah Went in there, talked to them like, we're happy to do this, do new ductwork and everything, two geothermal systems, but you cannot get rid of this boiler. He said, why? I said, because this house is from 1900, nothing's been updated, there's no insulation in the wall. So when I tell people that it worries them about geothermal, and I wanna be very clear, it is not a geothermal problem, it's a housing problem.
Geothermal Challenges in Older Homes
00:33:16
Speaker
And that's something, things you can address. A construction Exactly, construction problem. Yeah, yeah so exactly. And that's that's something you can rip out the boiler and put it in a conventional heat pump. but You're gonna have the same issues, it's not gonna be able to heat In certain homes, especially historic homes, they're they're challenging because you can't really replace windows the same way. Insulation's challenging.
00:33:34
Speaker
There's crawl space issues. I can't even access portions of my home. you did a great job with your installation. I tried. yeah He was impressed. But it was because, I'm not kidding you, when I first moved into my home, it was in the low 40s.
00:33:46
Speaker
Inside certain rooms of my my office was in the 40s. I walked in my breath. I could see my breath. I go, this isn't right. yep And so we did everything. It's better, but it's still not great. yeah And um you know I'm always looking for ways, but the reality is 95% of folks can get the benefit from this. And I'm a friend you know i'm an education. But there's always...
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, and there's there's some things. I mean, ah the system, the geothermal system comes with a backup electric heat setting on it. The difference between the backup electric heat on an air source heat pump versus a geothermal is you're based on outside air temperature on that air source.
00:34:21
Speaker
So most ah air source heat pumps, that backup electric heat typically comes on when it's below 40. Emergency heat. Exactly. Emergency heat, auxiliary heat, everybody, a lot of thermostats will call it something different.
00:34:32
Speaker
um And that makes the bill skyrocket. My system, you should never run on backup electric heat because everything is inside. It's not running off the outside temperature. It's constantly pulling from that 50 to 60 degrees.
00:34:44
Speaker
So it doesn't have to use that extra in a more modern home, something that's not 100 years old. So a relatively modern home. That's this is not a concern they should. Oh, not at all. Not at all. If you like I just I had a couple appointments. They had a gas furnace. They asked them, like, this is a 2007 built house. You will have no problem.
00:35:01
Speaker
Got it. You know, whatsoever. And the backup electric key is there in case of emergency, but you should never use it. So now, do you ever install these systems in, let's say, a row house or a townhouse? Or is there simply is there enough space for a traditional?
00:35:15
Speaker
mean, we live in Baltimore. It's like the home of row homes. Everyone that's not from here, they come in they're like, what are all these things? I'm one of those. Yeah, it's like these don't exist, but they do on the East Coast. yeah And ah so the density is a real thing that we've adapted to. So if I just have a little teeny patch of grass in my backyard, you're saying I could have a vertical installation?
00:35:32
Speaker
Yes. and And obviously there's a few outliers, things we got to look for. um So starting with where does the water, where do if you have gas, where does gas, where does it electric, where does sewer come in?
00:35:44
Speaker
um If all those things are out of the way, we can make it happen. There's something we we do called a twister loop. where it is a design pipe that is made that way to get more piping in just one hole.
00:35:56
Speaker
um And we do those a fair amount in smaller areas like that. It's just as efficient, same thing. It's just the way the piping is designed. Really? That's fascinating. So do you anticipate, ah you know, when you're sitting there in the meetings with the company Groundloop, do you guys anticipate demand to go up or do you think because, and we i I briefly mentioned this because the administration changed and they're they're basically cutting a lot of these credits. They want everybody to kind of fend for themselves.
00:36:22
Speaker
And so I can see both sides of that, by the way. So there are tremendous number of rebates and credits on things that probably don't need it. I mentioned EVs. I do not believe they need an EV credit. It's like giving you a ah credit from the government to get an iPhone. yeah It's like, guess what, you're gonna get that damn iPhone when yours breaks, like ye chances are you're buying one. So like a smartphone, even not an iPhone, like any smartphone, you don't need to be incentivized to buy that, because you need it and now nowadays.
00:36:50
Speaker
And so I think eventually everyone's gonna have to convert to that at some point. So do do we anticipate that having a dramatic effect Because when you've mentioned all the rebates, I just added them up. I mean, it's it's it's large. What is that? That's going to be like 30,000 in rebates.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah, it pays for itself with the renewable energy credit. So the the one that's going away and and it's been positive most of the year, the utility rebates have gone up. It was just 3000 for any system. Now with those fossil fuels, it's 7,000. County rebates have come back. Like Howard County just got a $5,000 one. So it's been, the state of Maryland is very good for geothermal because those are all state rebates. Utility, um and you know that's utility company, but it's the statewide rebate.
00:37:30
Speaker
And then the the county rebates then the renewable energy credits are all statewide. So that's important to know. Got it. um And I probably should have started with that. The 30% federal rebate, that's the one that's going away at the end of the year.
00:37:42
Speaker
um That was on the big, beautiful bill, and I 100% agree with you. Some things need rebates, some things don't. um that We are doing something currently to kind of try to hedge our bets with that, where we will buy your renewable energy credits up front. And that is basically- you're going to get the reoccurring- Exactly.
00:38:01
Speaker
Payment, the coupon payment, and then you're going to go ahead and give it off. That's an interesting- And it's just a way of saying, look, some people we meet with, and we talked about this a little earlier- They're not hard pressed for money. They're like, I want the system. I want just write the check and whatever. Exactly. Okay. Well then you guys take your renewable energy credits as they come in. Then there's other people were like that 30% going away hurt us.
00:38:19
Speaker
Okay. Well let's help you out some way and buy them up front. um So the 30% going away, last time it went away was like four or five years ago. I think it was only 22%. It came back six months later.
00:38:31
Speaker
I don't anticipate it this time to come back six months later. It's not. But um this is how, I mean, before the renewable energy credits came through in 2023, how we you know I would pitch this is you have the 30%, you have all the other rebates, and then you just sold on energy savings, which that's what it is. That's the majority of the reason people are doing it. They're not doing it because you get all these rebates. They're doing it because they want to lower their monthly bills.
00:38:55
Speaker
So now we're just kind of replacing that 30% by buying your renewable energy credits up up front, and then we can talk about the lower energy bills. Now, if I was building a brand new home, I would be considering solar. Depends on the situation. But what if I wanted to go in and put a whole solar array on top my home?
00:39:12
Speaker
Maybe a Tesla roof or something if I really wanted to get crazy with it. Sure. And i would I would consider doing a battery pack, if not three, in there. So they have battery pack options now that really can keep it so when the sun's not shining, cloudy day, or in the evening, you're still pulling from...
00:39:27
Speaker
from the energy in which you created. okay So I'm trying to create a net zero home essentially. yeah And I'm using geothermal to do an electric heat pump that you've installed. So can I heat and cool my system through that the process I just mentioned and literally not have an additional bill?
Achieving Net-Zero with Geothermal and Solar
00:39:43
Speaker
Oh yeah, we have I have people all the time that I go out to and they're like, we just wanna be a zero house. And I was like, I get it. so yeah And it it varies. you know i've I've gone out where they're like, but we're between doing solar or geothermal first.
00:39:54
Speaker
Just how I am with you, you know, I'm like, look, you're on an electric heat pump. Maybe you want to do solar first. If it's only five, ten years old, you might get a few more years. You're on oil. Get the oil out of your house and do geothermal first and then do solar.
00:40:06
Speaker
So it's ah again, I don't pretend to be a solar expert. I could just go off of somewhat knowledge and what people tell me, you know? Yeah. Well, I think the idea of being self-sufficient is attractive to a lot of people. And I think more and more so just everyone. i mean, I think we're more nervous in general as a society. It's how it feels. Yeah. Right. Every news headline's horrible. So it's like the idea. It's like the idea that you can be someone in control of ah your energy system and eating cool. It's like the more off the grid you can be within reason.
00:40:36
Speaker
I think people are, of i don't know, ah more open to that notion. Absolutely. And this presents an idea that is that that could actually. create that as a path. yeah And so um getting back to the real estate side of things, have how do you coach people through
Geothermal's Impact on Resale Value
00:40:51
Speaker
it? And i want to give you my opinion, but how do you coach people when they try to say, okay, I'm about to do this investment. yeah Am I going to increase my home's value in any meaningful way? How would you describe that to them? Yeah. So that's funny. you the hot seat there. I had a couple of questions for you coming into this, and i i I figured that'd be a good back and forth because I i run into this a good amount. you know people
00:41:10
Speaker
First off, if I walk in there and and people are talking about resale value a lot for the house, I'm going to start to have some questions. Well, are you guys planning on leaving in two years? Oh, yeah. Well, then why are you doing a geothermal system? You know, you shouldn't.
00:41:23
Speaker
um Resale value, the the big thing I i talk about, and and you might know this better than I, I kind of use an example of 10 people walk into your house, maybe three people know what geothermal is. Right. One of them really knows what it is. Yeah, I wouldn't even that's why we're here. Yeah, exactly. Like, I just don't think people know about it. One of my best friends from college, he just lives up in Philly.
00:41:42
Speaker
I think we were talking about this and he just bought um a nice house up there and he's like, he's like, wait, don't, don't you do this? And he took pictures and he had a geothermal system. He's like, tell me what I need to know. i' was like, you don't really need to know anything. Your bills are just going to be lower than what you ever knew, but you're moving in with that. It's not like you're going from something, you know, besides your previous home. So that was kind of my question for you is how do you handle that when you walk in, like you tell people, Hey, a geothermal system, are they just like, what?
00:42:08
Speaker
We don't care. Oh, I love it, guys. You notice he didn't answer that question at all. You're going a politician yet. My goodness. That's how it's done, folks. um Yeah, so what I would say is it's it's a nicety. I believe it's a plus. it's it's um I think it's better. I would much i would much prefer this over traditional, as as green as I'd like to say I am. and i don't ah Solar is a harder sell.
00:42:34
Speaker
So when people are considering solar for their home as a real estate agent, it actually, i can't, to be honest, it's not a plus. On average, it's a negative. And I hate to say that out loud. So if someone's on the fence, to be honest, it's a negative because on average, people are leasing these things. yeah They have a traditional 20 year lease, you're five to 10 years in it, and now you want to sell.
00:42:56
Speaker
and your system is five to 10 years on average, because most people don't install these things and six months later sell. yeah It's normally my intention is in the foreseeable long term, I'm here.
00:43:07
Speaker
So your systems are usually a little uglier, a little older. They're not as thin, they're not as elegant, because they get better with time. And still in five or 10 years, it'll be true of what we're installing today. So it doesn't look great most of the time. And so nobody really wants that thing on top of the roof.
00:43:22
Speaker
yeah And there's always one person, if it's normally a couple, let's say that's buying, one of them doesn't like it at all. And the other one can deal with it. And then we try to sell them on, oh, look at the energy savings. And they're trying to do math, they don't understand. They have to apply typically.
00:43:35
Speaker
to also get approved for that additional debt obligation. okay Which is a whole and other set of problems. yeah And so on average, no one's gonna give you $5 more for your home because you have solar.
00:43:47
Speaker
However, I believe what you're offering with ah with like ground loop and the ability to have lower energy bills and you don't stare at it and you have a system that is likely to have less maintenance, likely to have less wear and tear and likely to outlive whoever is about to purchase I just, the combination and you don't have to deal with the install.
00:44:07
Speaker
yeah It's like dealing with looking at your backyard destroyed potentially um or you know just dealing with the headache of all this. sure It's all done for you and you just, instead of spending 500 month, now gonna have 250 month or a month.
00:44:21
Speaker
That's, I believe that to be an actual value. And now the challenge is how do you correlate that to a dollar figure? yeah That's challenging. I mean, it's challenging to determine your kitchen renovation, your bathroom renovation. Those are two no brainers.
00:44:36
Speaker
But adding a pool, my brother owns Ryan Pools. It's one of the largest pool companies in the whole state of Maryland. yeah He doesn't lie to people. I know his spiel. He doesn't say install this because you want to make more money on the resale.
00:44:48
Speaker
Because about 50% of people that have a pool in the backyard or I'm sorry, about 50% don't want to pull in your backyard. It's roughly the the statistic I always read. So that means you've eliminated half your buyers. yeah But half of them might want it so much that they're going to buy it because of that. Isn't that a weird, it's like there's not a clear answer on on all of this. To your point, that's kind of what I say when people ask me that question and they're just like down the road. I'm like, I...
00:45:13
Speaker
That's a better question for a realtor. I was like, I can't tell you that I'm selling it you to you based on your needs. My answer would be if you're going to gain value in it and you anticipate living there at least five years, pull the trigger and do it. Yeah. I think that makes all the less sense in the world. And for the right buyer, they're going to appreciate it and potentially offer you a little bit more. Yeah.
00:45:32
Speaker
If, if it comes down to it, but. And also I, yeah I've told them before, if you're selling your house, you probably don't like this, but I'm like, get involved a little, sell them on the geothermal system if you like it. You know, tell your realtor. Sell your realtor. That's the key. Sell your realtor on yeah. I don't think most realtors, because I just told you, I love to say occasionally how ignorant I am, but I've sold these systems before and I only had a very, you know, cursory knowledge of this stuff. I did not deep dive in it until, quite frankly, I needed to consider it. And that's just facts. We have so many things to research. Oh, yeah. I knew enough,
00:46:05
Speaker
You know, but now I feel like I have enough knowledge. I think anyone listening to this, especially if you're a real estate agent, you should be able to hopefully explain this in a more meaningful way. Yeah, absolutely. And use me.
00:46:16
Speaker
I'm always a phone call away. Like, there you go you know, it's, um, you know, you've been great and, you know, this is a good experience for everybody to get involved and, It's not for everybody, but, you know, I think there is a, you know, there's a connection here between realtors and this this type of system. You guys see so many different systems and, yeah you know, getting a little bit more knowledge on it never hurts.
00:46:37
Speaker
No, I don't think it hurts. And I think I think the real like public service announcement here is that if you've never considered this, I think the time to get the understanding costs nothing to have you out to get the knowledge of what this what the real numbers look like for your home.
00:46:51
Speaker
So come on out, but drag Justin out to your house and and have him explain this to you. Look at the systems. And if you're like me, he'll tell you he doesn't want to work on it. And if he wants your business, he'll tell you. And but the point is, do that now before it's 100 degrees outside and you have no time to do research or, you know, and and you book up. It's not like you guys can do 30 of these a day. Right. Yeah. And to your point, um you mentioned this earlier about kind of like, oh, out of sight, out of mind. And then if something goes wrong and you you have to replace like with like geothermal, we can't really do that. We can't come out and just you don't get air conditioning next next day or exactly. Water for.
00:47:31
Speaker
there's something they've done. It's called geo ready, but it's still, you know if you don't have air conditioning, it's still gonna be like a two week wake period where we kind of, I'm not going to get into that right now because we just don't do a ton of it because it's not, I don't think it's a very viable solution. But that if you think your air conditioning was working really hard, you know, this summer and you're like, yeah have us out now. if If you think your heating was really on its last leg, have us out now, you know, things like that. Just spring and fall are always good.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, of course. um So I think I beat you up pretty good. I don't i mean, is there anything you think we need to to make mention that I haven't hit on? I'm jo trying to think. No, we hit on a lot of this stuff. I mean, I literally approached this as if I was going into a house and ours was a little bit all over the place when we first met because the system was a little bit all over the place. It is. yeah No one's fault. It just is what it is. um So I approached it kind of like, you know, how I would go into a house. I, i Again, my main job is managing expectations of what's going to happen. I'm very visual. I walk around the house with you. I'm going to explain where I think things are going to go, um how it's going to you know happen, what can happen inside the house. I want to go over every little detail so you're prepared.
00:48:40
Speaker
and To be clear, even though this is a month and a half to three-month process, I don't expect customers to remember everything through those months. so We come out again when we're about to do installs and drill and just kind of go over it one more time before we actually do it. so Yeah, no, its you were great. You were easy on the questions. I appreciate that.
00:48:57
Speaker
Yeah, well I just, I think i'm I'm passionate about it. Like, I am going to be helping to to kind of push your your company and in this idea because i think um I think it could serve more people than it is.
00:49:08
Speaker
And I think there's a lack of knowledge and the expense... the expense seems overwhelming. I don't think that sounds unreasonable. It sounds like there's a path forward for almost everybody.
00:49:19
Speaker
And as long as you, I mean, the if you're A, if you're building from scratch, I think this is an absolute no-brainer, like don't even think about it. And if you need to retrofit an an existing system, you should at a minimum get a quote. yep yep And that's like, I think that's the minimum. And then um if you plan to live there at least five years, I think the math from everything we've discussed in the notes I've taken,
00:49:40
Speaker
After that five-year holding period, it's it's once again almost a no-brainer. you're Even if it doesn't increase resale by a nickel, like does that make sense? like Oh, 100%. It's not like I'm just saying these numbers and then I'm like, all right, make a decision. There's there's a detailed proposal of everything where you see, oh, after these 10 years of renewable energy credits and all my other stuff, I'm I'm negative $10,000 and negative in a good way. You know, I've gained that. And again, that's not counting your energy save savings. So it's all broken down on the proposal. Or the the reality that you're no longer using. My my home has got to be the worst thing in the world. The amount of gas that my home goes through, the needle just goes, it never stops. And I'm like, man, I wish I just, just from a consumption standpoint, I feel horrible. you You're the type of. And we set our thermostat down so pathetically low. Like yeah you bring a coat if you come over. Like, it's not good. I mean, you're the type of homeowner, I walk out of there feeling bad because I i just did it last week right right off of Charles Street. was you have three systems and none of them connect. and Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
They're all over the place. We're in Baltimore. So this general, this region has older homes and usually there's additions. And so i always say, if I want to wake up and have a cup of coffee in my kitchen, I have to have five systems on. yeah And that's not a joke. It's like nothing makes it So, but I think for the vast majority people expect, like I said, that that you're going to encounter, this will make sense for it. Oh yeah.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah. And by the way, your house is beautiful, by the way. yeah It's awesome house. The only other thing I did just pop into my mind a couple of minutes ago is just, and i don't I don't want to go down this road because it it might not be in your guy's wheelhouse, but commercially as well, um the 30% will still be there for commercial. So if you have customers that are in that business you know and all all those things, so commercial real estate, stuff like that, you know there's a lot of people doing geothermal.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that lesser so of what I'll deal with, but that that's good to know. Yeah, just just throwing it out there in the the world, see what happens. Well, there you go. Well, Justin, I appreciate you joining me. And everybody, Ground Loop Heating and Air. And this is Justin Coleman. He can come and answer your specific questions. I appreciate you joining. I'm going to have all your contact information on in here. And hopefully a few people were able to listen and someone can you know act on this knowledge, hopefully, and do something good for the environment and do something good for their pocketbook. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Matt. It was great. All right. Thank you.