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An Agent’s Journey: From Seafood Markets to $24M in Sales | All Roads LTR Podcast | Ep. 55
38 Plays16 days ago
In this episode Matt Rhine sits down with teammate and rising star Craig Kirkner to share an incredible story of grit, sacrifice, and success.
Craig went from running seafood markets as a teenager to nearly giving up on real estate after piling up debt and setbacks. But with a “no backup plan” mindset, he came back stronger—building a thriving career that hit $24 million in production in just 12 months.
Together, Matt and Craig dive into:
- The tough realities of starting out in real estate (and why most agents quit early)
- How work ethic, mentorship, and team structure fueled Craig’s growth
- The sacrifices that made success possible (including selling his beloved truck)
- Why real estate isn’t just a job—it’s a lifestyle
- The future of the industry, and why relationships will always matter more than AI
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Unlikely Success Story
00:00:00
Speaker
because we're in the trenches every day, sometimes you probably don't even necessarily get to think about how unusual it is of what you've been able to accomplish. You've been licensed roughly since 2021, 22, and you really came into this you know with zero sales. We're sitting here today and and you did a combined $24 million dollars in production just in the last 12 months.
00:00:22
Speaker
The average a full-time agent sells approximately five homes in a year. Why did you initially... you know decide to venture away from that? what What made you think this isn't for me? I don't want to be doing this in 10 more years.
00:00:34
Speaker
Real estate agents are self-employed, 90% of us anyway. So you have to be your own boss. You have to be willing to get out of bed and do the things and show up. I am in sales. I am not a salesperson. like My job every day is to go out and find someone who I can help.
00:00:52
Speaker
I kind of felt like I had made it. I had this like, okay, I've finally done this. I had like two or three things under contract all at once. And I was like, all right, we've got it. And then two of the three things fell apart. Yeah. And then it was just like, I basically went to zero. I had like $10,000 in credit card debt.
00:01:09
Speaker
um And eventually for a little bit had to kind of pull it back and call it quits and go back to the restaurant world. um And that just is what it is. um I'm happy to be sitting here today and happy to have made it through that. But it's not it's not a straight path. Do you remember that phone call coming like trying to come back to real estate?
Craig's Journey: From Financial Struggles to Real Estate
00:01:37
Speaker
Hello and welcome everybody. This is your host, Matt Ryan on the All Roads Lead to Real Estate podcast. And today we have a guest that I get to see virtually every day of my life. I think I see this individual more than my own wife at this point. That's for sure.
00:01:53
Speaker
And so I've been waiting, i don't know, what, two years probably to bring you on here. I think it's approximately approximately how long it's been. And we have a whole new thing for those actually watching the podcast. You'll see we have a whole new fancy setup.
00:02:06
Speaker
We're at a table. This is so so different. You were commenting it's um like a mini Joe Rogan setup at this point. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this seems lot like what you should Yeah, so it's a little little, I guess it's more similar to some and definitely different than I had. So ah for those ah of of you that are going to watch this, um we're going to have some new things in the future ah with this new setup with a desk. And so we're going to share a lot of data and a lot of other things on other podcasts, but not this one.
00:02:34
Speaker
This one, I have Craig Kirkner joining me. So welcome, Craig. It's been a long time coming to get you on here. Yeah, thanks. I mean, I've been in attendance for several podcasts, never been on a podcast myself. So it's the first time It's a first time for everything. So welcome. he's He's certainly heard enough of these. So, you know, and honestly, I wanted to to, you know, to be truthful, I wanted to wait to get you on here when we had something to to truly, I guess, celebrate and a story to share.
00:03:03
Speaker
And ah the the story of yours is is interesting. Like, i you know, I met you, obviously, prior to you getting into real estate. Yeah. And so the reason, everyone, I wanted to share Craig's story on here is that he's a local real estate agent right here in the Towson, Maryland general area.
00:03:20
Speaker
And and so he's been with me ah prior to getting a license. And so now he's been with me going on with three and a half years. Longer than that. Four years. How long has this been? Altogether, it's probably closing on five.
00:03:31
Speaker
Oh, boy. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. We don't celebrate that as often as we probably should. So it's been a while. um So the, the reason he's here is because the results Craig has been able to, to, it's basically sustain it.
00:03:44
Speaker
It does not mirror what most people have. And ah because we're in the trenches every day, sometimes you probably don't even necessarily get to think about how unusual it is of what you've been able to accomplish.
00:03:56
Speaker
and And so i want to give some of your numbers here before we get into your backstory, but, The reason why you're a really qualified guest at this point is because you've been licensed roughly since 2021, 22.
00:04:09
Speaker
And you really came into this, you know, with zero sales. You had you had no formal, you know, real estate experience of any kind. Just a dream like many people. Right. And then we're sitting here today and and you did a combined $24 million dollars in production just in the last 12 months. Right.
00:04:27
Speaker
And so, I mean, you know, the numbers, like what's the average agent do in a, in a given year? Maybe three to six. I mean, and that might be generous. That's very generous. Yes.
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I honestly have a tough time and that's part of good coaching is
Mindset Shift and Coaching
00:04:44
Speaker
I don't think what I'm doing is special. I don't think what I'm doing is out of the ordinary. I think this is to me, minimum standard.
00:04:51
Speaker
Um, So that plays into a lot more about what talking about. Yeah. So if, and you'll hear, and I want people to pick up on just the way that you're thinking, these are mindset things that I hopefully have imparted some, some of that into you that have been beaten into me through all the coaches and all the people that have helped me to, to where I am.
00:05:09
Speaker
And so, yeah, what you do certainly is not normal. Um, I was the average and full-time agent sells approximately five homes in a year. Mm-hmm. And so that is not at all what you're up to.
00:05:21
Speaker
And so, I mean, you were part of well over 100 transactions last year in totality because you helped me on on virtually all of my stuff. So in that in addition to what he does, guys, he also assists me to to help run the business and do what I do. So it's a really unique vantage point. Why people need to hear this is I think the...
00:05:40
Speaker
the way people go about getting into the business, the way that they think about this business. um Sometimes it's just backwards, in my opinion. um And who's to say what we do is right? Who the heck knows, right? Do whatever you want to do. But um I think, I think the rec, you know our track record proves that, you know, is proof in the pudding. Like what we're doing is working. and And, uh,
00:06:01
Speaker
And I wanted you to share your experience instead of me but blabbing about it. I'm like, let's get Craig on here and hear it directly. And to be honest, we don't talk about this kind of stuff that much. No, we really don't. I mean, day to day, it's pretty.
00:06:13
Speaker
I mean, the business is all encompassing for sure. I mean, the past three days I've worked 9 April, 830 a.m. to at least 9 o'clock p.m., like 5. yeah the consistently. So it it's pretty all-encompassing. So it's nice ah in some capacity to sit back and kind of look and realize that what I'm doing or what we're doing together is something special.
00:06:36
Speaker
So that's interesting. Yeah, so it it is special, so but it is very doable. That's the other thing I want to get over. So the last guest I had is someone that was considering doing this at a different point in their career, right? They're at the end of their career considering slowing down and doing this part-time. It was, ah ah I thought, it very different um version of how you and I go about it because when you came to me, you said, Matt, like i I want to go all in.
00:07:01
Speaker
Like I'm doing this as a career and this isn't part time for
Real Estate as a Lifestyle
00:07:04
Speaker
me. And i just knew you were going to be committed or, you know, just just from day one, which is why I was so attracted to to work with you.
00:07:12
Speaker
um And I don't know if everyone that I've had, certainly not everyone I've spoken to has that level of giddy up and obsession almost. Yeah, and I mean, I would say for sure that's kind of the general mindset of I think most people getting into real estate is, oh, like this seems easy. I'll just help people buy houses. like I'll just go out and I'll meet people and we'll be able to take them through houses. And the layers to how difficult and challenging actually doing that on a consistent basis is is something I think the public knows very little about.
00:07:44
Speaker
um And to actually consistently make a real living in this business, it takes full go commitment. If you have any sort of a backup plan or anything like that, it's not going to work.
00:07:56
Speaker
It, it, that is true. And i also want to say, as I'm listening to this, i don't want to discourage folks because there are so many ways to be successful in the business. And there are, it's really one of the unique businesses where you can choose to be obsessive like we are.
00:08:12
Speaker
I refer to what the choices we made in life and in our career, it's more of a
Team Influence and Mentorship
00:08:16
Speaker
lifestyle. That's not an occupation, right? It's not a job really. It's, it's a lifestyle. Yeah, no, I mean, if I was not as passionate as I am about this and doing this and building the business I'm building, then this is not the lifestyle I'd want to live. now That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with someone who wants take on real estate as a second job or sell two or three houses a year. it can be awesome. It can be an awesome way to augment your you know income. But if you want to do it, you know, 100%, this is your only source of income. This is your only thing. Then yeah it requires a different level of dedication.
00:08:50
Speaker
It does. And you're a young man, you're still in your twenties. And I remember reminded constantly how old I am when I'm near you. So thanks for that. Um, you know, it just, it hits different once you get older, it's, it's, it's harder to keep up the pace.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so, and I look at your capacity to hustle. Um, I still have, um, glimpses of that, but not as, as you know, as the the ability to do it every single day in and day out like you do.
00:09:15
Speaker
So I always admire that about you, that you still have that giddy up. Um, it hasn't been beaten out of you just yet. Yeah. And a lot of that's time on task. Obviously I've been doing this a lot. less time than you have. So I'm sure I'll get to a point in my career too, where I'm not interested in working 12 hour days consistently. yeah um And I'd much rather just sit on my couch. yeah Well, I'm not doing that either, but yes, it choices. i always say we work really hard and that what you're doing now is the grind to give you choices and options later.
00:09:43
Speaker
Right. And I think, you know, it's very easy in your 20s, like where you are to to kind of relax and chill and take the easier route. And I think, yeah, when you're in your 40s like me, it it it you will have less options.
00:09:56
Speaker
and um And so now you have tons of options because I was nowhere near as far along in my career compared to where you are already. And so that gives me hope that you're going to do even better before you're my age, which is the goal, right?
00:10:09
Speaker
Right.
Early Career and Transition to Real Estate
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, a lot of that goes to you. It's and I mean, we can get into it, but it's it's a lot about the importance of a team structure in this. And you can kind of look at a team as your springboard into real estate. And it kind of just gives you ah launching pad and the tools and the knowledge. And honestly, i don't really know how else you'd be able to be successful in real estate without a true mentor or a true guide to get you started.
00:10:38
Speaker
Well, I can tell you, I didn't really have any of those things, certainly not to start. And that's why it was a very slow grind, at least for me, for years. And I said, if I if i had a different approach or someone that I saw that was successful that I could kind of latch on to earlier, i I would be in a different position even today. It's like it was a very slow and then all at once.
00:10:59
Speaker
And so just in the last handful of years is when we took off. And that's when you've been through that journey with me. um I beat my head against the wall. I failed several times trying to do it. And now finally, we're, you know, we're making some good hires. And I feel that we have some good people around us. And it's, you know, it's certainly a journey.
00:11:15
Speaker
But let's start talking about Craig, right? So let's it's get into a little bit about your background. So after graduating high school, you've already been like, you know, in the world of the, of, of, I guess you worked in a few different restaurants, but you were in the restaurant world, right?
00:11:31
Speaker
Um, restaurants, uh, you know, seafood markets, that kind of thing. I ran, seafood markets for, I mean, pretty much the entire time I was in high school. And then several years after that, that's kind of where i did my thing.
00:11:44
Speaker
Um, and learned how to be a professional. That's really what I did. Yeah. Yeah. And you started managing other people when you were a teenager, basically. Right. Yeah. And ah by the way, I wouldn't advise that. That's not, that's not a position a teenager should be in, but I did it.
00:11:58
Speaker
and i wasn't necessarily that successful at it when I was a teenager, but I did do it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like I know a little bit about your previous owner, like you, you know, you loved a lot about him, but it's, they were in a situation where they needed you to just step up like way beyond probably where you should have been just because of the needs of the business and you, you Yeah, I mean, we're there being an 80-year-old business owner, like you probably don't want to be there day in, day out. yeah And I had enough experience to be able to do it. So very fortunate um to be in the position I was able to be in. But I don't think a teenager should be running a or $6 million dollar business. like It's probably not a good idea.
00:12:36
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's still functioning from what I, it's still, it's still still there. It hasn't burned down since it left. So yeah, there we go. So, um so basically that, that was your experience. And so why did you initially, you know, decide to venture away from that? What, what made you think this isn't for me? I don't want to be doing this in 10 more years.
00:12:54
Speaker
um I mean, it's just kind of, it's a little bit of a trap. um So in the restaurant industry, in higher positions, of course, you can make very good money. I believe my ah late last salary before I left was around 90,000, which is a very good living.
00:13:09
Speaker
Right. um But, every holiday, every weekend, every evening. There really is never a break. If I was lucky, if I didn't work six days a week, and not to say that real estate's that different.
Self-motivation and Client Focus
00:13:23
Speaker
I was about to say, okay, where is this going? Go ahead. But it's a different type of work, a different type of job. Working in a restaurant industry and anyone listening who does that currently, it's incredibly physical and taxing thing.
00:13:37
Speaker
right It's very late nights. It's very early mornings. um It's all day, every day type of environment. And there's really just no end in sight. You'll just do that forever.
00:13:47
Speaker
And then eventually, hopefully you can retire. Yeah, and what I heard when we first started talking, I'm talking from the first moment I met you, I could hear the work ethic. So what i when I try to isolate and determine what's someone's probability for success in this business, it's not that what we do is necessarily that sophisticated, but it it is work.
00:14:07
Speaker
And it's like what I heard is you had the capacity to work, like and it was the work ethic. I just always said if you had the right tool set, And that work ethic was there. I'm like, you will eventually figure it out. Even if, does that make sense? Like, it's not that ah any of us necessarily have to be, have the raw talent. You just have to have the capacity to want to do it enough to fight your way through it.
00:14:28
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, it really is that like it's referred to as intrinsic, intrinsical motivation, like they're real estate and you're self-employed 90% of us anyway. So you have to be your own boss. You have to be willing to get out of bed and do the things and show up and show up every day at nine o'clock in the morning and act like it's a real job.
00:14:48
Speaker
Even though I might go have showings seven, 8 PM at night, but the most important thing is just to show up every Monday through Friday and really try to do it for a lifestyle, because if you just wait for the phone to ring, it's not going to ring.
00:15:02
Speaker
But, and I think what you and I both agree on, and I want to get your point of view on it, but one of the reasons we both subject ourselves to that type of lifestyle is simply because if you do it well, it can be financially rewarding, but you actually get, if you work 20% harder this week and you get two more pendings, like you can make more of an income, right? You can, there's a direct correlation between our efforts and what the reward could be.
00:15:26
Speaker
Whereas working for someone else for a flat fee or, you know, a salary, it's really, that's not the case. No, yeah. And I'm especially in the restaurant industry. Like I could serve a thousand customers in a day and we could do a hundred thousand dollars in business. ah It doesn't make me any more money. up right I'm a salaried employee, so it doesn't, it really just, it didn't matter. So yeah.
00:15:47
Speaker
and I definitely agree. Yeah. So, I mean, and we get that pride of ownership and I, I, I still see the cards that you still have on your desk, like from clients that write these beautiful things that how much, what you've done for their family and like those types of things matter. And it's, we do get to impact people. So it's like, we're after this quest. It's a business, right? We go after it as a business, but at the same time, we actually help people in the journey and the relationships we create is really interesting.
00:16:13
Speaker
i don't know about you. it's I mean, I know. I mean, that's, that's the biggest part of this job. And I always tell people, I'm like, I am in sales. I am not a salesperson. Like my job every day is to go out and find someone who I can help. And I tell clients that directly to their face. It's like, I want to help you do the things you want to do. My sales portion of my job has honestly nothing to do with the client. That's different. That's negotiation when we're under contract.
00:16:38
Speaker
The sales portion of my job has nothing to do client facing, which is kind of the perfect combination because I was in customer service for a long time.
Overcoming Initial Challenges
00:16:46
Speaker
I can help customers and I want to help customers. and I want to be a part of their journey.
00:16:51
Speaker
And then if I have to do some salesy things to get them what they want, okay. But sure towards them, it's it's never salesy. Right. Yeah. So, well, let's go I'm going to try to go through it as kind of as linearly as I can. so So basically, you're there, you're at the seafood joint, you've decided to look around, like,
00:17:08
Speaker
what, what was, I guess, what was going through your mind when you first got licensed? I know one thing you didn't necessarily, maybe that's my fault. You didn't necessarily recognize how expensive it is to get licensed and to get up and going.
00:17:20
Speaker
And, um, because just cause you're on a team, you are, you are self-employed. You are, you, you are, I'm not your boss. You are self-employed and you, we work collectively. Um, so like, what was it like? Do you remember like that first couple months? Oh yeah. Yeah, know.
00:17:36
Speaker
Um, it, I mean, obviously, yeah like you hit hit you hit on it. It's shocking when you hear all the fees and stuff you have to just basically just to have a license and actually practice real estate. I mean, it's probably close these days to $2,000 a year, literally just just to have a license before you've gone on any showings, before you've talked to a single client.
00:17:58
Speaker
right You're going to spend about $2,000 out the gate at least. Right. um And that's probably in a beneficial situation. But I mean, off the bat, you think it's just going to hit and you're just going to be out showing houses and you're going to be out doing things.
00:18:12
Speaker
It's not that. You need to build a client base first. And if you don't have a client base, There's no homes to show. There's no folks to speak with. but That really is the the true first thing is, OK, well, how do I? and I was talking to a newer agent on our team earlier this week. I'm like, you'll be begging people at first.
00:18:31
Speaker
Just let me show you a house. like Let me open the door for you. Let me go inside the house with you. Well, in in your mentality, i will tell you, like, and this is what i want I wish everyone to have this type of mentality. You knew there was no job too big or too small. You said yes to everything, whether it was a directly correlated to income for you or anything. You said yes.
00:18:51
Speaker
And you showed up like this is one of the best compliments I can give you is when you were brand new, you're not of a ton of value yet. Right. You're just brand new. You don't know that much. But yet you would show up, treat it like a real job. You would be there at the same time I was there or even earlier every day.
00:19:06
Speaker
And you would stay, which I thought was crazy until I left or later, like every day. And you didn't have any clients yet. Yeah. And I mean, definitely spend some time just kind of staring at my computer screen. Yeah. um But I mean, that is ah a huge piece of advice I would give to any new agent on a team is find a way to make yourself indispensable. five Run signs, ah knock on doors. I don't know. but Find some way to make yourself indispensable.
00:19:33
Speaker
I put together chairs in our office. I hung things on the wall. Meanwhile, I'm the worst handyman of all time. But I did it because I wanted to make myself indispensable. And I'm and And what happens is when you make yourself indispensable and you're doing all these things, you're like, God, this guy's awesome. And like when there's an opportunity to hook you up ah in the beginning with like an opportunity or a lead, you want to give it to them because they're like, this person deserves the opportunity.
00:19:57
Speaker
and as opposed to what are you going to give me? And you feel like you're entitled to these opportunities. And I think that's the mind shift a lot of people might have is we just want, we want all the things, but we don't necessarily want to start at the bottom and earn it.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm not saying that I've had moments where I didn't feel jaded or whatever. And that's like a really hard thing is not feeling like, well, why did this person get that or worrying about the team growing or worrying about the team hiring another agent in that it would take away from me.
00:20:28
Speaker
And that's a big hurdle you have to overcome and you have to understand, like, you're going to need to grow. If you're not growing, you're dying. Like, you're going to need more employees. You're going to need more agents. And that's just the nature of the beast. Right.
00:20:39
Speaker
So, um so in the very beginning you got through the licensing and all that. So what was the first year experience like in your mind, like having no experience it it it's not it's not a rosy, right? It's not like a sexy thing. i don't want to be too dark. I mean, it's it's it's tough. um You're not, especially just in the microcosm of real estate, you're not going to make lots of money at first. You're really not.
00:21:05
Speaker
You have to be wholeheartedly committed to this and wholeheartedly willing to live out of your savings account and live out of your credit cards and eat ramen noodles and peanut butter and jellies. And you don't mean that.
00:21:16
Speaker
you know I do not mean that metaphorically. I mean that very literally. Yes. um Yeah. And if you, it's up to you if you want to share your journey, but in the beginning, like it was tough, right? Like, yeah no, I mean, I, I basically went to zero.
Commitment to Real Estate
00:21:31
Speaker
I had like $10,000 in credit card debt.
00:21:34
Speaker
um And eventually for a little bit, had to kind of pull it back and call it quits and go back to the restaurant world. um And that just is what it is. um I'm happy to be sitting here today and happy to have made it through that. But it's not It's not a straight path. It's up and down. It's a roller coaster ride on either side. Becoming an agent or buying a home as a client. I always tell people it's a roller coaster ride of emotions. There's going to be real big highs. There's going to be really, really low lows.
00:22:04
Speaker
And what's even weirder is right before I eventually had to pull the plug and go back to the restaurant for a little while, i kind of felt like I had made it I had this like, OK, I've finally done this. I had like two or three things under contract all at once. And I was like, all right, we've got it.
00:22:19
Speaker
And then two of the three things fell apart. Yeah. And then it was just so crushing. I don't know if I can, physically, i just, I didn't have the money to keep doing it. I just had to pull the plug for the moment. It was insane. And so it's like, people need to hear that because sometimes everybody's like gets on stage and say, you know, we congratulate people that have made it and they're in this million dollar agent club and all these things. And then lot of times they don't really talk about like, this is what it really took to get there. Yeah.
00:22:45
Speaker
And I like the amount of like, it felt like a failure to me because I want you to succeed so badly, but we were in a position to not be because I need to also feed the business and produce.
00:22:56
Speaker
And so where I was in the business, I didn't have enough opportunities yet to even share to keep you afloat. And truthfully, it's like you were still so new and so green. It's like, I can't give you certain opportunities at the time because I was like, I i have to make sure that closes. Right.
00:23:11
Speaker
And so it's like a weird space for both of us at the time. And it killed me, and ah you know, not quite as much as you, but it felt like it felt horrible for me. was not a good day. I remember it vividly.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's not not good. And so but let's go back to, OK, so now it's several months. You you got this, you know, a nice pay bump to go back because they needed you so bad. And so you like sustain yourself. And so a period of months go by and then I get a call from you when I'm actually on a boat like like celebrating with, you know, I don't know, we were just doing something like a team building thing.
00:23:43
Speaker
And do you remember that phone call coming, like trying to come back to, to, to real estate? Yeah, for sure. I remember the phone call. I had definitely, i at the restaurant business had just ran its course. There wasn't a day after I had done real estate and going back to the restaurant. I didn't think about doing this. I didn't think about showing people houses. I didn't think about making the calls. And, and that was the biggest moment for me where I was like, okay, this is truly,
00:24:09
Speaker
something I desperately need to do. And eventually things came to a head and i just called you and I wasn't even sure you would have the space or the opportunity for me like to rejoin. Fortunately you did.
00:24:19
Speaker
um But now I remember it vividly and i was very excited to even get the second chance to prove it. Yeah. And, and maybe I'm screwing up the exact wording, but I remember basically you said, i will literally do whatever it takes and I'm not afraid i will go beyond zero into the negative territory.
00:24:38
Speaker
There is no backup plan. Like that's what you said. It's like, to me, it's like burn the boat. I'm it's happening. I tell people that all the time. I told it to the new agent we just hired. I'm like, that was honestly, I think one of the biggest pitfalls of the first go about or go around in real estate was I was constantly, i always knew i could just go back to the restaurant. I could just do it.
00:24:59
Speaker
I knew they were all jobs waiting for you. I knew they would take me back. And then that's not to sound arrogant. It's just, that's the nature of that business. It's constant turnover. I knew I could get a job there and I knew my skills were different than what you could hire someone off the street with just because of my level of experience there.
00:25:15
Speaker
And unless you're going to be wholeheartedly committed to this and not even consider doing something else, then it's going to be really hard. Yeah. um And you better hit every green light.
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's the real deal. So it's like, when I heard that, I was like, my God. So to be honest, we didn't really have a spot for you, but I i was like, we're doing it. Cause I knew, I just know it. I knew it in my heart that you will be successful. It's a matter of either opportunity or timing something.
00:25:43
Speaker
And it's like, you know, I'd say within certainly within the first 12 months of you being back, like there's no question, like you went from being in debt. You actually he loves his truck, guys, like he had a truck.
00:25:53
Speaker
This was like his baby. He had a big ass pickup truck. He loved it. And he's the gas guzzling truck he's using for showings. yeah And he had, you know, he's he was like coming back in debt, like trying to make it work. And he's, you know, and I said, you got to get rid of that truck.
00:26:07
Speaker
You owed a bunch of money on it. It was new, so you owed all this money. And tell people what you did with the truck. Yeah, so, I mean, it was a really nice F-150. I actually had to get rid of it and roll negative equity into sedan.
00:26:22
Speaker
Not a little bit, like a lot a lot a lot of negative equity. negative equity, just because because of how much better the gas would be. And even the payment still was going to be less um with the negative equity applied. So it's just like, it's just pushing off debt.
00:26:35
Speaker
yeah Um, but I was willing to do it, um, because I knew that truck was going to be one more, it was the kind of like the last barrier is the last thing on my back to get off my plate before I could really delve into this.
Financial Recovery and Career Growth
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, you came back with a car you did not want. a He hated that car. And it was like a sign of his commitment though, of what he was going to do to get, get through it. And he you owed way more than the car was worth. Yeah. i literally couldn't have sold it.
00:27:03
Speaker
ah but yeah Yeah. And in ah in what, a year or two years from that period, like what what happened with the car now? Yeah, it's gone. I mean, at the worst of my second go around, I was around boom virtually $0 in the bank account, at least $10,000 in credit card debt and a car that was, I probably owed double what it was actually worth. right um To the point where I have virtually zero debt. I mean, obviously business credit card and whatever, but that's not,
00:27:31
Speaker
Doesn't matter. um Cutting off you know all of the car, I paid off like $15,000 just to be able to sell the car to get the truck I have now.
00:27:42
Speaker
um So, I mean, it's it's quite the turnaround. Yes, he he got rid of that car. He hated so much. And like that was like so crazy to see you show up in like a new F-150 Lightning that you know now you're not upside down on it anymore. like Yeah, and honestly, part of the reason I bought it, and it's a big thing, and it's something I've, again, learned from you, is I've gotten to a point where I felt pretty comfortable. I felt pretty comfortable with the amount of builds. I felt pretty comfortable with...
00:28:09
Speaker
where I was in my career and everything in real estate and then I was like, that's not a good thing. I need to feel more uncomfortable and now, bought the truck and now I'm looking at buying a bigger house and taking on a bigger mortgage payment because you just got to keep feeling comfortable. That's the only way you'll get up every day and do it. You mean you paid off your debt, you paid off the car debt, you paid off your credit card debt, you but managed to buy your first house after you came back, you were approvable, you got a house and now you're going to even increase the house and and be more comfortable.
00:28:39
Speaker
And you know, all that's happened in a pretty narrow, short window of time. Yeah, I mean, I think it's been two years, two and a half years now since I came back full time. And
Pursuit of Success and National Recognition
00:28:50
Speaker
here we are. I mean, it's just remarkable. And then to be at that level of sales. And I think you're already like past half of what you did last year in the first few months.
00:28:59
Speaker
so Yeah, I mean, this so I've already eclipsed personal solo volume. I've already eclipsed what I did last year. um And then, I mean. And it's not exactly the best market out there. It's not the easiest market to get it done right now. Yeah.
00:29:12
Speaker
I came up and cut my teeth during COVID. So anything compared to that feels a lot easier. Sure. There's not 10 offers on every house. People get home inspections these days. So yeah i I have a tough time bellyaching about it.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah. So it, I mean, it's just, it's quite the, the success story and it's just like now, you know, as we continue to evolve and like you said, get uncomfortable, I try to change it up every couple years, either get a new office. I try to expand in some capacity. It's like,
00:29:39
Speaker
You know, you always want to be doing something a little bit bigger. You always want to have some, another stretch goal. Um, you know, the, you said you're in, not growing, you're dying. I think, I think when we just want to stay the same, it's really challenging to get the fire in the belly to do what we do. It's like, you got to continue to reach.
00:29:55
Speaker
I've heard people say about like prize fighters, not to compare us to prize fighters, but yeah, don't think look like it. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. People like prize fighters, like once they get a couple million in the bank and they're waking up in silk sheets, like it's really hard to get up and go run and go to the gym and do all the things they did to get them to that point.
00:30:10
Speaker
Right. It's even more important just to continue to make yourself uncomfortable. may at and Just, stay even. It's all even. Whether you lose a deal, win a deal, it doesn't matter. it's It's even. I've numbed you pretty good, haven't I? It's important. It's a really, really important skill that because if you ride the highs and the lows, it's it's going to be really, really We don't go crazy. It's why it's like I don't go crazy with individual celebrations when you have a big, crazy month or a quarter or a big house. It's like we try to keep even keel because there are times, like you said, when it didn't go your way or you lose two in a week.
00:30:43
Speaker
Like we don't, you know, where it's just, we keep it even. And I think that's the best way to do this long-term. This is a marathon. This is not a sprint. yeah And I think ah it's the way, it's the way we go about it. I think we keep our head down and we work.
00:30:56
Speaker
And, um and so, ah you know, I would say like what, you know, having reflected back on the last couple of years, knowing what you know, would you go back and go through the torture to do it again? Yeah.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yes. um Yes, I would. um This lifestyle I live now is a lot better than the restaurant industry. I mean, I i have the ability to next week if I wanted to to just disappear and go to the beach for a week, I could do that.
00:31:22
Speaker
It's like the benefit of the only person I'm stealing from at that point is myself. right um So that's that's really the difference between this job. And i don't feel like I work most days. like I really, truly, duly love this. I really do love showing people houses. I love going to listing appointments.
00:31:37
Speaker
And I love hearing people's stories and just being a part of their life. like It's the biggest thing. We do a lot of business on the internet. So I was just talking to someone about it the other day at a closing because they wanted to know how they met their real estate agent.
00:31:48
Speaker
They just met me online. But now that's a person who considers me a friend, like a personal friend. That's a crazy thing. You just made a call because you wanted to see a house. Right. And eventually you meet someone like Matt or I and we're part your story for the rest of your life. Yeah. You can't get rid of us. No, or we're staying around. I promise I'll knock on your door. Yeah. I had lunch today with someone that we've bought and sold like five homes with. I met them online. Same thing.
00:32:10
Speaker
And now I know their whole family. We're like, I'm invited to, you know, the kid's birthday party. It's like, uh, It's I think good people kind of we all connect and ah not everyone you're going to be best friends with. It's the realization that, you know, we can still have some folks that we really connect with deeply and others are more surface level. But we get to know people really intimately, I feel like, because we got to talk about the finances and the makeup of the family and who's you get to know more way more about people.
Resilience and Client Trust
00:32:38
Speaker
than you ever thought you'd know for sure. I mean, certainly. Yeah. That's put mildly. Yeah. So I find that fascinating. So um and so what would you say, like when you consider what the biggest challenges are or or the things that you think are, are you know, things that and people might not be aware of outside of what we've already talked about?
00:32:57
Speaker
It's just so much different than you think it will be. Like if you've fallen into the trap of watching HGTV or something like that, it is not like that at all. Yeah. Like I've been in houses. I literally have to sign waivers to go inside because they're in that poor of condition. Sure.
00:33:13
Speaker
Regular basis. And then the next day I might be in a million dollar house. Like it's a super strange dichotomy of things every day. And you kind of never. And that's the beauty of the job is you never know where you're going to end up. You never know going to talk to. You never know what house you're going to see. Right.
00:33:26
Speaker
I just randomly had a showing pop up just today and went down all the way to Baltimore City and I didn't think I'd be going anywhere today. Yeah. So it's it's a really different and interesting thing every day when you wake up.
00:33:38
Speaker
And that's I mean, the challenges of that is obviously. When you don't have any appointments and you're just sitting in the office by yourself and you're just trying to figure out what you're going to do, it's a really lonely, really hard feeling, especially when everyone else is running around to appointments and running around to do the job.
00:33:55
Speaker
Right. Yeah, i don't disagree, but I will say this, and I think you know it. The hardest part of that job is getting like the initial experience, getting over the hump. The reality is there will be no harder time than probably what you've already gone through. It'll be different times. There'll be different hardships. But the hardest part, because no one can take away your experience, like you already know all the things pretty much, like you continue to get better over time. Like you're going to keep even getting more refined and your skill set gets even better.
00:34:23
Speaker
but you have more experience already in your first couple years than most people do. You know, you love it. And agents love to say, I've been doing it 25 years. But they've sold three homes or five homes a year for those 20 years each. Like it's their combined experience you've already had.
00:34:37
Speaker
No, and I mean, ah like we talked about, I mean, I went through a point where I literally had to tell my girlfriend. I was like, I was not sure how I was going to buy groceries that week. yeah And like, ah she didn't have any money. i didn't have any money. I didn't know exactly what we were going to do, but I had to literally walk into the bedroom after she sent me a store list and be like, I can't buy that. I don't know how I'm going to do that. So no, yeah showing houses will never be that hard. That'll never be as hard as that conversation ever again. Yeah. So um yeah, yeah. God, man, that's, that's something. um We just did it so differently. I did this like part-time after having a full-time, it's like everyone's journey is different, but you also did it at a much earlier age than myself. I did it in my late twenties, like full-time, full-time.
00:35:19
Speaker
And then by then I had savings, like much deeper savings. You did it with very, little to no savings. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the path I took, but if you're truly motivated you truly, you can do it. You can do it from literally the bowels of nothing. You can have no assistance. You can have no help. You can have no savings and you can make it if you want to try. And if you really want to be passionate about it and put the work in, then it's possible.
00:35:43
Speaker
Right. Wouldn't recommend it, but it's possible. Yeah. We always try to tell folks, guys, you want to save like six months at least of reserves that eliminate some of this horrible, you know, pain that i we've described, but that can run out or or ah couple bad, you know, settlements that didn't close. i mean, anything's possible.
00:36:01
Speaker
Well, and it's not even like it's and it's not linear. Like it's a roller coaster. You're not going even when you start selling houses or you start getting the ability to talk to people, it's not going to be consistent. and Right. It takes a really long time to build up a consistent flow and a consistent client base where they're going to keep coming back to you. I mean, one of the biggest moments in my career was i was able to help someone buy a house and then they turned around and they said, oh, this is so and so. I know them. They want to buy a house.
AI's Role in Real Estate
00:36:29
Speaker
And that's like the biggest thing where it's like, okay, I did not only a good enough job to help that person, but I did such a good job that they want me to help someone they care deeply about. yeah And that's where I was like, i think I think I've got it. I think we've made it past the point where I have to be really concerned. I mean, do you think, because you're newer in this, like do you think AI is going to come for our jobs entirely? like What do you think?
00:36:51
Speaker
It's a lot what we talked about. I mean, maybe it's nevity. Maybe it's an issue, but I think People always want to buy from people. This is such a personal thing. i don't think AI could sit down and have the conversations we've had with people in their living room. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
00:37:08
Speaker
um But I think 90% of people are going to want to deal with people. They're going to want to have someone who truly cares about them. And i don't think AI will ever be able to do that. Because that's a real concern for folks because they're trying to figure out if you're young and you're looking at options, even if you're not necessarily young or new in your career, it's just you have to think about the future. Like certain career paths are going to be replaced sooner than others. Yeah.
00:37:31
Speaker
I mean, eventually we're all going to have a whole different world to live in. ah But I mean, real soon. But I think... the My personal opinion is we're going to go the financial advisor route, which where everything became one line. Charles Schwab, like, you know, Fidelity. ah There's a subset of people that are going to click a button and do the things. And it'll be really cheap to transact. You don't have to pay, quote unquote, an agent fee.
00:37:53
Speaker
But I don't like to your point. A lot of people are going to want a human. And they're going to want a personal relationship. And i know ah I still have a financial advisor and I'm, i have the capacity to do everything myself, yeah but I want a person, someone that knows and trusts me and I like them and trust them.
00:38:10
Speaker
And we've talked about this a lot. It's a lot different, like being a service provider and being a salesperson, two very different things. right We have contractors, we have warranties, we have all, everything lawyers are title companies and lenders. Like we want to be your realtors for life and we want to not help you buy a home, but we want to guide you through the process. And that's different.
00:38:30
Speaker
If you're just looking for somebody to buy, help you buy house, I'm sure AI could write an offer for you. I'm sure it could. But if you want advice and you want a real person who can help you long term and you can't call AI when your furnace breaks and say, yeah who's a local person I can talk to who can help me with this.
00:38:45
Speaker
Right. We can. And we always say, I want to take the problems of my clients and put them on my plate. Like I have people that leave the state because they got transferred, whatever, like a death in the family. I get their keys and I say, you're done.
00:38:57
Speaker
I'm taking over. And we take over and we get it prepped. We do all the things. Right. And so it's like that to me is the hard part. AI is going to have a challenging time to replace it. And I tell people all the time when we get past the preapproval stage and they're actually looking at homes.
00:39:11
Speaker
just look, just shop, just find the house. Cause I promise you we're gonna walk into a house one day and you're gonna say, Craig, this is it. This is the house for me. yeah And then my heart the hard part of my job kicks in of getting you the house.
00:39:22
Speaker
right But sometimes it's competitive and it's like all these details. And that's why, you know, I think you went the team route. Had i had the option to go to team route, I would have because there are so many details. I call it like stacking these little teeny things, the process from like getting someone pre-approved all the way to getting them the keys.
00:39:40
Speaker
There's a million little things, right? And even just getting your offer, you just won an offer last night, right?
Future Aspirations and Personal Growth
00:39:45
Speaker
In Towson. um with Five offers on it? Yeah, five offers, over list, all the things. All the, right? It's way over list.
00:39:52
Speaker
You had to stack a million things. Like you knew who, right? the Which lending partners makes the most sense. Like how to speak to them, how to convey confidence to the listing side that we're the right buyer, you know, the right buyers to work with.
00:40:03
Speaker
The offer's got to look tight. Like it's got no So there's like a million little things that it's like you've already, already like been able to accomplish where I think that is the edge. That's why you get so many under contract.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah. And it's it's, a lot you lose that many. It's a lot. I think we've lost two this year, but that's it. yeah um I think it's a lot of relationships. It's so important and people don't think about that. It's relationships with the listing agents.
00:40:25
Speaker
I mean, we, we talk about it all the time. It's, it's a real statistic. It's not a joke. The top 10% of real estate agents do 90% of the business and they're just selling back and forth. We deal with kind of the same group of people all day long.
00:40:37
Speaker
And it's like, I want them to know we're going to have a good, smooth transaction. i don't want them to think that if they accept my offer, it's going to be a nightmare. right And that's a huge thing and why they may choose me over a very similar offer.
00:40:49
Speaker
And it's our close rate is really high. So you accept us. It's because we vetted them as closely as we can. We can't control everything, but the majority of the time we're able to close. And and ah and so just like I think I don't know. So i just when I see it's like, you know, if you have the capacity to join us, I think also a smaller team makes the most sense, to be honest. Definitely agree.
00:41:09
Speaker
Because you get way more time with the people that have done it all rather than a major team where you have like a coach who might not have ever sold or their best year was not that great. Like, know. That's just me thinking. Yeah. And I mean, I've spoken with big teams. as Sure. Like they can kind of dangle the carrot of all these opportunities and all these things.
00:41:27
Speaker
But if I just sent a brand new agent out with – 20 people to show houses to and no idea how to actually get them through the process, they'll fall flat on their face. Right. It's not easy. It's not and ah necessarily that intuitive of a process. you Like this is something you only can do with reps and the proper guidance.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, and it it takes a lot of practice, but it's like conveying confidence and being the strong person in the, you know, you have to lend people your confidence because they might not have any. Right. And they're terrified.
00:41:54
Speaker
Right. And so, you know, it's just, it's just such an interesting, just the, having this conversation is so bizarre to me because we don't normally talk in this detail or about this subject matter. And it's like, so it's just totally different than the type of conversation we could have had even just a year ago, maybe two, definitely two years ago.
00:42:11
Speaker
No, because ah in the back of my mind, i would have constant I literally would have been sitting here. I wouldn't have felt comfortable sitting here doing this. I wouldn't have felt comfortable taking the time. or My phone rang probably six times since I've been sitting here. like I would have been losing my mind that I was losing opportunities or losing money or losing a commission dollar or anything like that. But once now that it we're secure, something we can do. Yes. And yeah, you'll get back to them. ah So it's good. But um I don't know. So what are what are we missing? I wanted to try to to make sure I touched on enough of the points. Like I think this episode is really designed for people to hear from someone like yourself that was able to actually achieve it and do it in um a very rapid fashion.
00:42:51
Speaker
um It is not common for people to do this, these kind of numbers in your time frame and specifically as young as you are. Like- Yeah. And I mean, that is a hurdle too, by the way, for anyone who's young out there. I don't know where a camera is. right If you're young out there, you're going to run into it. You're going to run into people thinking that you're too young to do this. You have no idea how many times I had an agent who was in the home before me and they came out and they looked at me and go, well, where's your real estate agent?
00:43:17
Speaker
Who's helping you? Like, who's here to help your client? I'm the real estate agent. I promise. Let me in the house. like yeah yeah It's definitely yeah definitely a hurdle. I think the average age for real estate is like 56 or something like that to this day. It's 59 and female, if you were curious.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yes. That's wild. Yeah. It's the rare case where the minority is. Yes, it's, you know, and it's usually because it's a second career for most people. That's just facts. And it's not, you know, and by the way, they're successful too. What we're describing is I think maybe the extreme, which is it's an all-encompassing lifestyle. It's like you're obsessively following up quickly. Like it's, you're the extreme. But I think if you want extreme results, that's probably the easiest way to get Right. And that's that's what we're talking about. I mean, we want to be
00:44:05
Speaker
I personally, I want to i want to be the top agent. I want to be and ah nationally ranked realtor. You don't have to do that. yeah Could you make 50 or $60,000 in real estate and not work seven days a week?
00:44:17
Speaker
Of course. yeah not very easy, but you can still do it. But like, and that's not what I'm interested in I'm not interested in working till I'm 65. I want to be done way before that. And there is a realistic path that may sound crazy, but that's not a crazy thing in real estate.
00:44:33
Speaker
It's not. No, it's options. And you get to see and build wealth in this career, which is a very interesting thing. We see how it's done. We act like, you know, it's like if this is, if this was insider trading, honestly, we'd all be in jail because we get to see,
00:44:46
Speaker
homes before they ever hit the market. We know how it all works. We see behind the curtain and it's really fascinating for us to see how it all works, right? Yeah. I mean, ah I can promise you if if a house has been staged and prepped and done all those things, like there was a realtor 90% of the time behind that pulling the strings, making the selections. I just had one in Towson. I did all the paint selections. I did the countertops. I did the staging and Two years ago, that was absolutely not a thing. I would have had no idea what to possibly tell them to do or per say or the advice to give.
00:45:19
Speaker
um But it's it's it's just it goes back to it's it's an all-encompassing thing. It's way more items and way more knowledge than you think you have to have. We have to be jacks of all trades and masters of none in all things, from inspections all the way down to home interior design. like it's yeah It's everything. Yeah.
00:45:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's wild. So, I mean, in conclusion, man, I'm proud of what you've been able to accomplish. I'm so grateful that I work with you every day. So thank you very much for being a part of the success collectively. And, um you know, hopefully it's many more years of of good things in the future. And, um you know, I'm excited for what the next chapter, you know, continues to unroll.
00:45:59
Speaker
um yeah been It's been a wild couple of years, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I wouldn't have thought I'd be sitting here and I wouldn't have thought that I'd have been able to do what I do. But at the same time, don't think what I'm doing is an an ordinary and I don't think it's that special.
00:46:15
Speaker
but So it's it's different. and It's a weird two sides of thought process. Well, ah well yeah who knows? It's good. it's I've beaten you down to to the right level. Keep them keep em modest, everybody. There's no there's no ah ribbons and but in balloons where we work. Just constantly think it's all going to vanish at any time and you'll be just fine.
00:46:34
Speaker
All right. Well, that's my phone alarm going off, so I know this works. It's the next showing we have to go to. All right. all right Well, Craig, thanks so much for joining me today. Absolutely. Thank you.