Transcript
Speaker: Good evening fellow posers.
Speaker: I'm Sarah.
Speaker: And I'm Jen.
Speaker: And we are your Unstable Moms.
Speaker: So tonight's going to be another late night edition because you know kids.
Speaker: And life.
Speaker: Life.
Speaker: Jennifer's over here rearranging her bedroom at 10 30 at night.
Speaker: Is that not normal?
Speaker: It was when we were teenagers in like 2000.
Speaker: Yeah, I guess I'm just still in that mode of like, this is the time that we rearrange.
Speaker: We don't do it during the day.
Speaker: That's crazy.
Speaker: And then your mom walks in and they're like, what are you doing?
Speaker: It's 3 a.m.
Speaker: I'm almost done.
Speaker: I'll be quiet.
Speaker: For tonight.
Speaker: For tonight.
Speaker: You're going to finish tomorrow.
Speaker: You're just going to leave it half done.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It depends on how I feel.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Knowing you, it'll be half done.
Speaker: For a long time, yeah.
Speaker: And your mom will come in and say, Jennifer?
Speaker: She doesn't really come upstairs.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Speaker: I mean, she probably doesn't have a reason to.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I mean, it's clean.
Speaker: It's not like I just have stuff everywhere.
Speaker: It's not like when we were small or younger and we cram stuff everywhere.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Saving shoeboxes of letters.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: Absolutely not.
Speaker: Movie theater ticket stubs?
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: All that goes in the trash.
Speaker: Well, Grace went through my high school memory bin or whatever, and she pulled out my senior book, and there's just, like, so many movie tickets that I have.
Speaker: It's like a little flip book in there.
Speaker: Oh, I do have that.
Speaker: Yeah, I have a bunch of them in there.
Speaker: And I'm sure I have a whole, whole bunch since I worked at the movie theater.
Speaker: And so I just went to the movie all the time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Was it you that whenever they let you go, they gave you a check for, like, 50 cents?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: It sounds about right.
Speaker: Or they were like cutting hours and you were going to quit.
Speaker: And you're like, look, I got a check for 50 cents.
Speaker: I should just put it in my book.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Then, because I don't have that in my book.
Speaker: It must have been somebody else.
Speaker: You probably took it in the positive so I can go play Dance Dance Revolution or something.
Speaker: We've got to have them quarters.
Speaker: We do.
Speaker: Anyway, so tonight we're going to have an update on...
Speaker: One of the Lady Bird Lake cases that we covered in the first episode.
Speaker: Whenever I first started researching, I submitted for a police report for one of the people.
Speaker: And his case was close, so they gave it to me.
Speaker: So we're going to look at the differences between what was reported and what was actually in the police report.
Speaker: Because it's kind of interesting, some of the differences.
Speaker: So yeah, we'll get started on that and excuse my congestion.
Speaker: I've got a little bit of a head cold going on.
Speaker: So anyway, here we go.
Speaker: So this one is going to go back to Julio Santos.
Speaker: I don't know if you remember that one.
Speaker: He was the very charismatic androgynous man who went missing from 6th Street in Austin.
Speaker: And another little fun fact that I was researching.
Speaker: I only have one.
Speaker: I didn't do a whole lot of them.
Speaker: Not this time.
Speaker: Not this time.
Speaker: So 6th Street.
Speaker: So you know how they have like the Pecan Street Festival?
Speaker: And everybody's like, why do they call it Pecan Street?
Speaker: It's on 6th Street.
Speaker: We're like, well, 6th Street used to be called Pecan Street.
Speaker: So all of the streets, let me get the directions right.
Speaker: So 6th Street was called Pecan Street because all of the streets that were going east to west were named after trees.
Speaker: And all of the streets going north to south are named after Texas rivers.
Speaker: I did not know that.
Speaker: All right, now you do.
Speaker: And now I'm like, okay, hold on.
Speaker: Let me think about the street names.
Speaker: Lavaca, Red River.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I know those, but what about the ones that are east to west?
Speaker: I guess they're all like just fifth, sixth, whatever now.
Speaker: Well, yeah, so they used to be named after trees, which is why sixth street was Pecan Street.
Speaker: So some of them were named like Cypress Street and then like... First Street was Waller Street.
Speaker: Second was Live Oak.
Speaker: Third was Cypress.
Speaker: Fourth was Cedar.
Speaker: Fifth was Pine.
Speaker: Sixth was Pecan.
Speaker: Seventh was Boise d'Arc.
Speaker: Eighth was Hickory.
Speaker: Ninth was Ash.
Speaker: And in between UT and the capital was Magnolia Avenue.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: I was looking for that and I couldn't find it.
Speaker: But anyway, there was a story.
Speaker: It was like 18 something.
Speaker: And the guy who basically helped develop
Speaker: what is now downtown Austin, the way they phrased it was he got Austin out of the wilderness, so getting rid of a lot of the trees, I guess, decided that they wanted to move away from the trees and move to the numbers.
Speaker: But the recording of the minutes of that meeting, that part of it wasn't recorded.
Speaker: So there's not really a firm why they did it.
Speaker: But he apparently had written a letter to the governor that said he didn't like the trees.
Speaker: The name of the trees.
Speaker: He's just anti-tree.
Speaker: In the 1880s is what it says.
Speaker: Yeah, I was right.
Speaker: You were.
Speaker: Anyway, fun fact about Austin and our streets.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But we still have like Lavaca and Red River.
Speaker: Yeah, those are still the same.
Speaker: I really didn't know that.
Speaker: I was just like, yeah, it would just used to be Pecan Street.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, our family's been here for almost 100 years and we had no clue.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nada.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So he was the guy that was on 6th and Red River, Pecan and Red River, if you will.
Speaker: And he's the one that had his wallet was behind the bar, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: He was later found in the lake two days after he went missing.
Speaker: So I'll go ahead and give a trigger warning about this episode ahead of time.
Speaker: There's going to be graphic descriptions of the condition of the body when it was found.
Speaker: And then I'll give another trigger warning when we get to that part of the story.
Speaker: So if you recall from the first episode, Julio and his friends were at a bar in downtown Austin called Barbarella's on June 5th of 2015.
Speaker: It was originally reported from the Austin Chronicle that Julio and his friends were hanging out, chatting about his new internship, going to Seattle for the Nordstrom internship.
Speaker: And Julio decided to leave the club at 2 a.m.
Speaker: while his friends stayed behind.
Speaker: And like we said before, if you come together, you leave together.
Speaker: So yeah, stay tuned for more life tips.
Speaker: Anyway, so when I was reading through the police report, his friend Lizette was interviewed by investigators and stated that they got to Barbarella's before 2 a.m.
Speaker: Because if you get there before 2 a.m., they would let you go into the bar.
Speaker: But as soon as it hit 2 a.m.
Speaker: and they had to shut down the alcohol sales,
Speaker: If you left, you couldn't get back in, but they wouldn't kick you out right at 2 a.m.
Speaker: Right, because I think they close at 3.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Like, you can just stay and, like, dance.
Speaker: Like, you just can't buy alcohol, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't think I've ever been off that late at a bar.
Speaker: So, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I trust you.
Speaker: Anybody go to Barb's on the reg?
Speaker: I mean, it sounds pretty sure.
Speaker: I mean, it's downtown.
Speaker: They're probably up all night.
Speaker: Maybe we'll turn into New Orleans where it never closes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know about that.
Speaker: Sell some daiquiris out of windows on the street.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I need to go back there.
Speaker: Such a fun place.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So they were there with their other friend Yadira.
Speaker: I hope I'm saying that right.
Speaker: It's the double L and I assume it's Hispanic.
Speaker: So double L is a Y. So Yadira was dancing with a male and Julio was sitting on a couch and
Speaker: So Lizette had positioned herself to be able to see both of them from where she was standing.
Speaker: And then she said that she saw Julio walking to the front door and she went over to Lizette and told her that she thought Julio was being kicked out of the bar.
Speaker: So they went after him and then he was gone.
Speaker: Like when they walked out, they couldn't see him.
Speaker: But if you remember the Austin Chronicle article stated that he left and his friend stayed behind.
Speaker: But they did, in fact, go after him and try to keep up with him.
Speaker: But they couldn't find him by the time they got to the front.
Speaker: That makes sense.
Speaker: Because 6th Street's just crazy busy.
Speaker: Even at 2 a.m.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, because everything's shut down and bars are closing.
Speaker: So everybody's moving all over the place.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So Lizette also made mention that his demeanor was more outgoing than normal.
Speaker: And that it could have been because he may have been intoxicated.
Speaker: But it never mentions, like,
Speaker: how many drinks they had other places or if they were drinking at Barbarella's.
Speaker: But the article published by the Austin Chronicle also reported that he was last seen at the food truck court on Sixth Street in Red River.
Speaker: But there was never a mention of that in the police report.
Speaker: So I'm wondering where the Austin Chronicle got that information.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, unless his friends eventually saw him there.
Speaker: But why wouldn't they just catch up with him also?
Speaker: Or maybe credit card records?
Speaker: But why would the Austin... Oh, that's right.
Speaker: They found his wallet at the bar.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: So I just think, like, who was the last person to see him at the food truck court?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Is it a food truck court?
Speaker: Food truck park?
Speaker: Kind of.
Speaker: I mean, there's a few, like, in the same area.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know, but is it a court or is it a park?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's just like a little area on the corner of one of the streets.
Speaker: I know, but they say food truck park, but then I was, or they said food truck court and I'm like food truck court, food truck park.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Is it like a trailer park?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We made a tomato.
Speaker: I'm not that hip.
Speaker: I don't know the lingo.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: Anyway, this was just a discrepancy from what the media reported and what I noticed in the police reports.
Speaker: And it just raised some red flags for me because I'm thinking maybe the police should know where that information came from because the police report showed that they talked to Lizette and Yadira within like a couple of days, like after they found his body, like the same day they found the body.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Yeah, unless they just were under the impression that that's where he was going.
Speaker: So then they ran with that like, oh, yeah, he was there.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: But then I'm just thinking, was there another person that they talked to?
Speaker: Or did his friends change their story?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just think that would be good information for APD to have.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It might have put them onto a good lead.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: So this is where I'm going to give the trigger warning about graphic descriptions.
Speaker: I'm going to go over when Julio's body was found and what the medical examiners noted.
Speaker: So if it's not your jam, maybe skip ahead a few minutes.
Speaker: Otherwise, let's buckle up.
Speaker: We're along for the ride.
Speaker: So I'm going to not give any officer information or any names because I don't know the rules or if my interpretation is going to make them upset.
Speaker: or because we're asking different questions.
Speaker: I just don't, oh, I'm getting in trouble.
Speaker: So we're just going to leave it anonymous.
Speaker: It's all public record.
Speaker: And I think we can attach the police report.
Speaker: I mean, it's all public.
Speaker: I think we'd be able to attach it.
Speaker: Let's see why not.
Speaker: So anyway, on June 7th at approximately 7, 16 AM, that would have been two days after
Speaker: He was last seen.
Speaker: The first responding officer, along with the fire department and EMS, arrived at the scene where it was reported that a body was found floating in the river.
Speaker: It was reported that one of the rowing coaches from the Austin Rowing Club had been out on the water and slowed down to avoid hitting debris in the water.
Speaker: And he noticed something that appeared to be a body.
Speaker: And from there, naturally, he called 911. 911.
Speaker: Because we have 911.
Speaker: It's after 1987.
Speaker: So when the sergeant shows up, he called the homicide unit and asked the other officers to begin setting up a perimeter for the crime scene, since there were several people using that hike and bike trail that goes around the perimeter of the lake.
Speaker: So they also then collected the makes and models and license plate numbers of any vehicles waiting nearby, just so they had records in case they needed to talk to anybody.
Speaker: Because I guess I've read that sometimes, like, someone will go back to the scene of the crime to kind of observe their work.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I wonder.
Speaker: I mean, they did a good job.
Speaker: Totally kidding.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Totally kidding.
Speaker: That's awful.
Speaker: It is awful.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: We were kidding.
Speaker: You know, but not everybody knows me like you do.
Speaker: They just like to see their handiwork.
Speaker: They like to see their handiwork.
Speaker: Did we just say the same thing?
Speaker: Did we just become best friends?
Speaker: My goodness.
Speaker: Meanwhile, an officer went with the Austin Fire Department out to the body in the water to take photographs before it was removed.
Speaker: So when they finished taking photos, they wrapped Julio's body in a bright orange mesh body bag with a red cord so that they could drag the body behind the boat.
Speaker: And this is where I have some questions.
Speaker: Number one, isn't there supposed to be like a crime scene photographer that's called to the scene to be able to take the photos?
Speaker: Yeah, but I guess it was.
Speaker: Isn't that a thing?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Unless they were just using the.
Speaker: So the police went out there and took photos.
Speaker: With the fire department while they waited on homicide to get there.
Speaker: I guess you can't.
Speaker: I guess whenever it's in the water, though, like it's a little bit harder to like keep it in the same spot.
Speaker: Maybe because they were just worried about him like floating further down the river.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I think even then his positioning is going to stay the same in the water.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Just like stay with it until they get there.
Speaker: I mean, I don't know how that works whenever they're in water.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And the way the report was written, the officer that was photographing Julio mentioned that they were trying to maneuver around the body to get pictures of all the different angles.
Speaker: And they were making all kinds of wakes, which was moving the water.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, moving the body.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I would think like a crime scene photographer would know how to do that in a way that it didn't disturb the scene as much.
Speaker: I mean, it's kind of hard when you're in a body of water, I would imagine.
Speaker: Yeah, but they have more training.
Speaker: So maybe they wouldn't know how to do that because they have to be ready for those types of situations.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I mean, it's 2015.
Speaker: Don't we have a drone?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: I'm sure it might not be great, but we got something.
Speaker: I mean, it was almost 10 years ago, too, so maybe not.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't either.
Speaker: So then when the homicide detective arrived on the scene, he was informed that the Austin Fire Department did not actually put his body in a body bag.
Speaker: They wrapped the body in the bag and cinched the bag around his body with a cord and that they didn't actually pull the body from the water and put it into the boat.
Speaker: They, quote unquote, towed the body behind the boat.
Speaker: But why?
Speaker: So part of what I read was, I guess it's not why they wouldn't put him in the boat.
Speaker: So they were like the original crime scene perimeter they set up.
Speaker: They couldn't get the body there because of the current.
Speaker: So they had to go farther down and they had to set up a second crime scene perimeter where they actually stopped and let him kind of rest in the water, I guess.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: It just, and the word toad was like directly from the report from one of the officers.
Speaker: That sounds so wrong.
Speaker: It did.
Speaker: I felt like they didn't, they didn't treat him.
Speaker: I think the way that they should have like is.
Speaker: It doesn't, it doesn't sound like it.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And so when the homicide detective heard like the rundown, he told them that that was not quote unquote, the best practices for retrieval.
Speaker: And he explained that it could result in like a huge loss of evidence.
Speaker: It makes sense.
Speaker: Which is why you put the body inside of a body bag and put it into the boat and then move it to where it needed to go.
Speaker: Because if they had the body in the boat, they would have been able to get it to the closest shoreline or the boat dock that they were originally intending to instead of the shoreline right underneath the I-35 bridge.
Speaker: I think this just like raised a bunch of red flags for me and it just makes me wonder like, I wonder why the public has such a skewed idea of what's actually going on because these mistakes are being made from the beginning almost 10 years ago.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And he was one of the first ones that they found in the lake after being downtown.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And you would think that APD would have some kind of training
Speaker: for like water recovery or like things like this that happen in the water since we have such a huge body of water that runs literally through the middle of us.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It runs to the middle of Austin.
Speaker: And then we go out to like Lake Travis where that drains off into and we have Shoal Creek.
Speaker: We have McKinney Falls.
Speaker: We have Twin Falls.
Speaker: We have the Greenbelt.
Speaker: We have all this natural streams and rivers and.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: potties of water, you would think that they would have some sort of protocol in place.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But the investigator basically was like, in the future, like that can't happen.
Speaker: Well, that doesn't help this situation.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So homicide detectives then take over the scene and the crime scene unit and the medical examiner arrive at the same time.
Speaker: And so this is where it's going to get kind of graphic.
Speaker: So the medical examiner noted that there was blood coming from his face.
Speaker: which was later determined to be bloody purge because the way his body was in the water, he was face down.
Speaker: So you could see his shoulders and his back and his backside and then feet, legs and arms were kind of dangling in front of him.
Speaker: They also observed that there was slippage on his skin, which is when the skin has started slipping away.
Speaker: It can look like bubbles on the skin or a bad sunburn, or you can peel the skin away or it's like melted wax over the skeletal structure.
Speaker: your face.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I warned you.
Speaker: I warned you, Jennifer.
Speaker: I know, but I just, I don't know.
Speaker: I wasn't really.
Speaker: That was just the definition I got from Google.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: But I didn't know that it looked like that.
Speaker: I had my own ideas and that wasn't it.
Speaker: I didn't know it looked like that either.
Speaker: And also, is it because he was in water that it was happening so quickly?
Speaker: Because it was only two days prior to him going missing.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so they said that they also noticed marbling and moderate bloating, which was all consistent with decomp.
Speaker: And I looked up slippage and it was in June.
Speaker: The water was 85 degrees.
Speaker: So it was warm out.
Speaker: It's humid in Texas.
Speaker: So it was all consistent with the time that he had been in the water because they also sent other boats that are with specialized equipments to get the depth of the lake where they found him.
Speaker: And get the temperature of the water and things like that so that they could make sure that the state of decomposition he was in matches the... The amount of time he was missing.
Speaker: Yeah, the amount of time he went missing.
Speaker: But I think this also, I didn't even think about this till just now, like it doesn't mention any kind of lividity.
Speaker: And in one of the other ones, didn't it talk about lividity?
Speaker: Yeah, but I don't know how long that person was in the water.
Speaker: Maybe it was longer.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: I don't know how long it takes for blood to pool.
Speaker: I mean, it starts pooling instantly as soon as your heart stops.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: But does it go away after a certain period of time?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm going to have to deep dive into lividity.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So it was noted that Julio was found wearing a San Diego Padres shirt with a white torso and red sleeves.
Speaker: Route 66 skinny jeans.
Speaker: Is it route or is it route?
Speaker: It's whatever you want it to be.
Speaker: Today it's Route 66.
Speaker: Skinny jeans with a Hawaiian pattern.
Speaker: His pants were unbuttoned, unzipped, and down around his ankles.
Speaker: And the only reason his pants did not come off was because the cuffs of the pants were caught on his shoes.
Speaker: So they were skinny jeans.
Speaker: So you can't really get those off with shoes on.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that was something that wasn't noted anywhere.
Speaker: So that.
Speaker: raises another question right like why were his pants down i mean i guess they could have fallen down more whenever he was thrown in the water or whatever happened but like why were they even he fell in jennifer but why were they even unbuttoned to begin with i don't know so in reading through the investigation a couple of other things stood out to me his wristlet was recovered from the bar that saturday is what it said so it was actually in the bar i thought it was behind the bar
Speaker: Well, it said behind the bar.
Speaker: Remember, we didn't know if it was like in the alley or behind the bar.
Speaker: So maybe somebody found it and gave it to them to hold on to.
Speaker: It was, in fact, inside the building and not in a sketchy alleyway, which is good news.
Speaker: It is good news.
Speaker: Kind of.
Speaker: I mean, when we're talking about this kind of situation, that's good news.
Speaker: At least, you know, he wasn't in a back alley.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Doing some sketchy stuff.
Speaker: Anyway, but his cell phone was never recovered at that point in time.
Speaker: In his interview with homicide detectives, Julio's dad said that his friends did not contact him until 3 o'clock the next afternoon.
Speaker: Oh, that's strange.
Speaker: Because they knew that, I mean, I guess they assumed that he was fine because this probably has happened before.
Speaker: Like he runs off or whatever.
Speaker: And then the next day they hear from him.
Speaker: But maybe whenever they didn't hear from him, they were like, oh, crap.
Speaker: Maybe we should call his dad.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I never read anything like that because he had just graduated college and was off to like an internship.
Speaker: And so I had never read anything other than like he was a super personable, charismatic person.
Speaker: So I wouldn't think that he would just like take off on his friends.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I also feel like that's what happened with Martin Gutierrez, right?
Speaker: He was at on Rainy.
Speaker: What was it?
Speaker: Lester Pearl.
Speaker: And then all of a sudden he just bolted out of the bar.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: And I never did see anything in the reports where this was explained why they waited until three o'clock.
Speaker: But I've had a friend in the past that we couldn't get a hold of after we all like went our separate ways.
Speaker: And I was calling hospitals and I checked with their family for sure before 3D.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That was a whole nother story.
Speaker: Perfectly fine.
Speaker: They were found.
Speaker: But I was definitely like I didn't see anything about a missing persons report or anything like that.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: Like even when they eventually do go through his cell phone records, I don't.
Speaker: don't think it shows that they called.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I didn't see anything in the report of that.
Speaker: And I didn't get like audio recordings or pictures or surveillance.
Speaker: So I don't think I got the full report.
Speaker: And I don't know why because I requested everything.
Speaker: But it wasn't in there.
Speaker: Anyway, I digress.
Speaker: Moving on.
Speaker: So it was reported that they went to three bars that night.
Speaker: They went to sidebar, which I think I've been to.
Speaker: That's a dangerous bar.
Speaker: They have heavy pours.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's probably why I'm not positive I've been there, but I'm positive I've been there.
Speaker: I have been there.
Speaker: I ran into two of my coworkers there.
Speaker: Yeah, it's where you go before you go out.
Speaker: I think I was there with, yeah, you and Wendy there.
Speaker: Most likely.
Speaker: Isn't it over by where Red Eye Fly used to be, right?
Speaker: Yeah, kind of.
Speaker: It's on the other side.
Speaker: It's like right, it's like right behind.
Speaker: Picnic tables outside?
Speaker: Yeah, it's like down the same.
Speaker: Yes, I have been there with you guys.
Speaker: Because we always would go there first because-
Speaker: The drinks are not super expensive, but they pour really heavy.
Speaker: So you don't have to have as many drinks.
Speaker: Because I was going to buy a round for my coworkers that I ran into there.
Speaker: And they were like, you don't want to buy one for so-and-so.
Speaker: He's already done.
Speaker: And then he didn't even remember seeing me.
Speaker: I was like, yeah, I guess you have a lot.
Speaker: I'm glad I didn't buy you another drink.
Speaker: So after Sidebar, they went to Shakespeare's and then Barbarella's.
Speaker: Then it says they went to Barbarella's.
Speaker: And then they mentioned that Julio met four Hispanic males.
Speaker: And he talked to them for a bit.
Speaker: And they ended up at Barbarella's when Julio was there with his friends.
Speaker: But they didn't engage anymore.
Speaker: And the four guys were only in town for the X Games.
Speaker: So they weren't from Austin.
Speaker: So they left then?
Speaker: Well, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, they were all at the same bar.
Speaker: Like, they talked.
Speaker: And then they all ended up at Barbarella's.
Speaker: But then when they were at Barbarella's, they weren't, like, hanging out anymore.
Speaker: So that was just a little side note about like another interaction that Julio had that night.
Speaker: So then after a conversation with Julio's sister, Melanie,
Speaker: She stated that his cell phone was pinging in the area of 6th and Red River.
Speaker: Whenever she was talking to detectives, that's what she let them know.
Speaker: And that's kind of right in the area where Barbarella's is.
Speaker: So they sent an investigator down to search the area for the phone.
Speaker: And he was asked to check for like dumpsters and places that maybe they could have been tossed to see if they could find it.
Speaker: And they were unable to call it and like listen for the ringing because it was turned off.
Speaker: And unfortunately, it was not found.
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: outside and dumpsters, whatever.
Speaker: So then they contacted the manager of Barbarella's again and arranged to meet at the bar to see if the phone was there.
Speaker: And she agreed to meet them the following day.
Speaker: So this is just like a timeline of like when the investigator, the homicide investigator started doing his investigation.
Speaker: So then the detective asked Julio's friend Lizette about what he was wearing that night.
Speaker: And she said he was wearing a brown leather belt with Native American type stitching.
Speaker: And that his pants were so tight that he said he had to carry the clutch purse because he couldn't get his ID and money in and out of his pocket.
Speaker: So that's how tight those jeans were.
Speaker: But if you remember, whenever they gave the description, when they pulled him in the water, there was no belt.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And in the last, the last, the first episode we did where we mentioned this, it said that his belt was the only thing missing in his wristlet.
Speaker: But it turns out it was the belt wristlet and his phone.
Speaker: So that was just like another, like, put a pin in it and I'll remember it for later.
Speaker: So yeah, missing belt, never found again.
Speaker: So then at 2 p.m.
Speaker: and I, this is Sunday, June 8th.
Speaker: So he went missing on, I guess, Thursday, the 5th.
Speaker: And then was found two days later.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He was found on Saturday then?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: He was found Saturday morning and then by Sunday at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, they went back to the bar to search for the phone.
Speaker: And it was located in the lost and found box behind the bar.
Speaker: But they were unable to track down who might have found the phone or who put it in the box.
Speaker: And then they asked if they had cameras and the manager took them up to check the surveillance footage.
Speaker: And the officer was trying to search for the footage and he discovered that the cameras had not been operational since May of the previous year.
Speaker: So in 2014.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Hopefully they have their assistance going now.
Speaker: Well, he mentioned it to the manager and she told him that she remembered an incident in April of 2014 where she had to provide footage to law enforcement and she must have not turned the recording back on for a whole year.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Why for an entire year?
Speaker: You just don't have.
Speaker: How do you not notice for a whole year that you haven't turned the footage back on?
Speaker: There's no way that something hadn't happened within a year where somebody was like, hey, do you have video?
Speaker: Right, this is 6th Street in Austin.
Speaker: This is where shootings and stabbings and during South by people are driving into crowds of people with their cars.
Speaker: You have to have that should be your primary thing is like make sure your surveillance.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And not even just for bad incidents, but like for her own purposes in the bar, like something bad happening within the bar that she needs to like, I don't know, like stolen something, stolen money, stolen anything.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Like somebody's missing in their bodies found after being in her bar.
Speaker: That too.
Speaker: That'd be a good reason.
Speaker: Anyway, so then the detective made sure that it was like back up and running.
Speaker: And so that was like another dead end.
Speaker: They didn't know who brought the phone back and they don't know what happened because cameras were turned off for a year prior.
Speaker: What about fingerprints?
Speaker: But I guess if you're not in the database, then it doesn't really even matter anyway.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: If your fingerprints aren't in the database and there's no telling how many hands it went through.
Speaker: And then trying to hunt down like all of those people just to see like who they are and where they belong to.
Speaker: I mean, I feel like if somebody's been murdered, that's what you need to do.
Speaker: I mean, it's worth it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So then after charging the phone and trying potential passcodes, because after you unlock an iPhone, it makes you put in your pin.
Speaker: I mean, after you turn it off, it makes you put your pin in to unlock it.
Speaker: You can't just do like the facial recognition or anything.
Speaker: They tried passcodes and even tried taking a trip to the medical examiner's office to use his like fingerprint to unlock the phone.
Speaker: They were unable to get into it and they didn't really find anything useful in the call logs.
Speaker: They called everybody that he had talked to prior and everybody had nothing but good things to say about him.
Speaker: And it didn't lead anywhere.
Speaker: They also tried to call Apple to see if Apple could help them get into it.
Speaker: And Apple was like no dice because they're like the most secure people, I guess.
Speaker: So then they just had to go with like call logs and stuff.
Speaker: So then the following day, we're on Monday, June 9th.
Speaker: The detective met with Sergeant Rodriguez.
Speaker: with this convention center security.
Speaker: And Rodriguez provided detectives with a disc that contained surveillance footage of Julio walking southbound on Red River by himself.
Speaker: And it appeared that he was impaired in the video.
Speaker: And it looked as though Julio was having some sort of like stomach issues because it looked like he was grabbing his stomach a couple of times.
Speaker: So after 10 days of trying to get in touch with someone at the Mexican American Cultural Center, so we're on June 19th at this point, detectives were finally given a disc.
Speaker: And upon reviewing the footage,
Speaker: it showed Julio walking through the property from north to south towards some concrete stairs at about 3 a.m.
Speaker: by himself.
Speaker: And from, I didn't add this in there, but the first set of footage that they received made it look like Julio was walking in circles around the building, but then it was glitchy and then it wasn't like a full video, so they had to send it off and get the real recording, and then the actual footage showed that he was just walking through the property.
Speaker: And then he ended up walking towards these stairs.
Speaker: So then the detective decided to walk the entire hike and bike trail from the boat ramp near 35, where they had, I guess, pulled his body to the shore.
Speaker: And it's on the backside of the Mexican-American Cultural Center.
Speaker: Directly to the south of the Cultural Center is where that set of concrete stairs was that leads right down to the water's edge.
Speaker: He noted that there is absolutely no light down in that area at all, and he could see how someone could accidentally fall in at that location.
Speaker: I mean, I guess it could have happened.
Speaker: And if he was as drunk as he appeared.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: He also said that it was apparent that the property was a meeting place for men.
Speaker: Oh, interesting.
Speaker: Like risque meeting place in the dark at the bottom of the stairs by the water.
Speaker: It's very romantic.
Speaker: It's something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's possible that Julio was with another person when he went into the water.
Speaker: And that this is like straight from the police report and that the possibility cannot be ruled out based on the totality of circumstances.
Speaker: However, based on the investigation, I have concluded the best possible explanation for Julio Santos' death was an accidental drowning.
Speaker: There's no evidence to support that he was suicidal.
Speaker: There's no evidence to suggest someone else was involved in his death.
Speaker: There was no external or internal trauma consisted with traumatic or assaultive events.
Speaker: Furthermore, it's plausible that Julio was in significant intestinal distress and looking for a place to relieve his bowels.
Speaker: The area at the bottom of the concrete stairs would have been a suitable place to do this, being isolated and dark.
Speaker: There are no trees to lean against for support.
Speaker: I think it's entirely possible a person could be in this location and not even realize they are at the water's edge.
Speaker: These findings are based largely on the fact
Speaker: that his belt was missing and his pants were unfastened.
Speaker: The button was still intact, so this suggests that it did not become unfastened due to the bloating.
Speaker: And the fact that his belt was missing suggests it was unfastened intentionally along with his pants.
Speaker: So I get that.
Speaker: But you also said you cannot rule out that there wasn't somebody else there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How do you know he didn't just get pushed?
Speaker: And you knew that that was a meeting place for men.
Speaker: And it's like, who's going to take their belt completely off if you've got to drop a deuce?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You're not.
Speaker: It's going to just be around the loops.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So the camera that's on the Mexican-American Cultural Center, it doesn't reach that far, I guess.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And if it did, it just showed the steps where he was going down.
Speaker: And it's so dark without the lighting that I don't think it would have caught anything else.
Speaker: We can't lighten the video and find out?
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: There's all sorts of technology now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: It was just a little weird that like, just because you can't rule something else out, you just going to go with like, for me, what seems to be the easier solution.
Speaker: Yeah, just say it's an accident.
Speaker: I'm not 100% sold.
Speaker: But the fact that they said the possibility cannot be ruled out.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I guess unless they come upon other evidence or like some other witness, then they really can't.
Speaker: Like how much further can you go?
Speaker: Right, but there could have been other evidence.
Speaker: There could have been other evidence that they was destroyed when they were pulling his body behind the boat.
Speaker: I mean, trauma aside, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker: And then we get to August 21st.
Speaker: He says he contacted the Travis County Medical Examiner's Office and spoke with the investigator.
Speaker: And she provided the official ruling.
Speaker: The cause of death was ruled as a drowning in the manner was ruled an accident.
Speaker: And the case was cleared administratively and requires no additional follow up at this time.
Speaker: Just close case.
Speaker: Yep, that's it.
Speaker: All done.
Speaker: Anyway, just kidding.
Speaker: I mean, it is that is case closed for them.
Speaker: But so the other day, though, I was meal prepping the lunches for my kiddos for the week.
Speaker: And I was watching Dateline or 48 Hours or something.
Speaker: One of those fun shows.
Speaker: But I watched an episode about Robert Wan.
Speaker: I don't know if you've heard that one.
Speaker: I first heard about it whenever I was listening.
Speaker: It was like one of the early episodes on Crime Junkies.
Speaker: They did an episode on his case.
Speaker: He was murdered.
Speaker: in D.C.
Speaker: in the home of two other men.
Speaker: The other men were part of the LGBTQ plus community.
Speaker: Long story short, they believe that the crime scene was staged and that the other two men were responsible for his death.
Speaker: He was stabbed and they were acquitted of the criminal charges.
Speaker: Please don't sue me.
Speaker: This is just information I heard.
Speaker: Don't come after me.
Speaker: But then they settled with Robert's family in the civil lawsuit.
Speaker: Anyway, moving on.
Speaker: The episode I watched, it was speculated that they could have used ketamine to sedate him in order to commit said crimes.
Speaker: There was suspected sexual assault, etc.
Speaker: There was like semen found and things like that.
Speaker: And he wasn't gay.
Speaker: So they think that they may have used, potentially used something like ketamine to sedate him.
Speaker: But ketamine doesn't last very long in the system.
Speaker: So what I heard in the
Speaker: episode was that it could basically be out of the system before tox screens could detect it.
Speaker: That's the word I'm looking for.
Speaker: Yes, detect it.
Speaker: So that it could, it was thought to be used to sedate someone or use like a roofie for lack of a better term.
Speaker: And then it's out of the bloodstream by the time toxicology is performed.
Speaker: So I was going to say that would make sense for a lot of those cases then.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And like, it made me think of all the deaths, especially like Martin Gutierrez, where his brother said that he had never seen him that intoxicated and they have drank together previously.
Speaker: And for it to happen so quickly from Martin bar to the next where he's being served and then going to the next bar and then like they're refusing service because he's so drunk.
Speaker: It would make sense.
Speaker: I think it's just a hypothesis.
Speaker: And then there was nothing found in his system either.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Except for alcohol.
Speaker: So that would make sense because you said that it moves through the system really fast.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so then I Googled ketamine.
Speaker: And in the case with Julio, he had like the upset stomach.
Speaker: And this is like the list of potential side effects.
Speaker: It could leave you feeling happy and relaxed, which his friend said, you know, he's probably intoxicated because he was in a very upbeat mood.
Speaker: Then it says like the feeling of detachment from your body, like, quote unquote, falling into a K-hole.
Speaker: I guess is the street lingo, visual and auditory hallucinations, confusion and clumsiness.
Speaker: So appearing intoxicated or the visual and auditory hallucinations, if they're seeing something and they're bolting from these bars, increased heart rate and blood pressure, which that with the hallucinations or clumsiness, like that's going to make someone feel out of control for sure, I would think.
Speaker: Slurred speech, blurred vision, anxiety, panic, and violence, vomiting, so stomach issue, and lower sensitivity to pain.
Speaker: So all of those things could fit what was going on with some of these guys, especially when they observed Julio on camera, maybe having some stomach upset.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: And it can be undetectable in your urinalysis within 24 hours.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And on a blood test for up to three days, but you have the best chance of detection within 24 hours.
Speaker: So it's completely out of the system within three days.
Speaker: And so Julio's body was recovered.
Speaker: So it would have been, I guess, Wednesday night into Thursday.
Speaker: And then so Friday, Saturday morning, and then talk screen would have been performed.
Speaker: You know, that's two to three days.
Speaker: So at that point, depending on how much he was given, if that was what happened.
Speaker: then it could have just been out.
Speaker: It's just a thought.
Speaker: Yeah, because I was watching that show and I was like, hmm, I wonder if that's a potential, like, if that's a real thing that's happening.
Speaker: Because if it is, then that might explain some of the stuff that's going on.
Speaker: It definitely could.
Speaker: Especially brought up like the Martin Gutierrez where they were like, he was super drunk out of nowhere.
Speaker: And then he ran from the bar.
Speaker: And then Julio like took off from the bar without his friends.
Speaker: Because if you're getting kicked out of a bar, there's like a little bit of commotion where you're like, hey, I'm leaving.
Speaker: I'm getting out of the bar because I've had friends that have been kicked out of a bar before.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not just like nobody knows about it.
Speaker: And you said that his friends went after him.
Speaker: So it must have not been something that he normally did anyway.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And if he is feeling panicked or having some hallucinations or confusion or anxiety, like maybe he took off because he's freaking out, like he's not knowing what's going on because you know what I mean?
Speaker: And if he met those four random people that then followed, you know, potentially followed them to Barb's or they ended up there together, you know.
Speaker: There was no mention of them after the fact.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just there's a lot of questions that weren't answered.
Speaker: And I just feel like they were like, well, we can't say this part for sure.
Speaker: But it looks like he had a stomach ache.
Speaker: So maybe he just went down here to get some privacy and fell in.
Speaker: But we don't know where his belt is.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You said that.
Speaker: So whenever he was like holding his stomach and it looked like maybe he was had an upset stomach or whatever.
Speaker: Where was he?
Speaker: You said he was on Red River still.
Speaker: Yeah, he was at the Mexican-American cultural center.
Speaker: So nowhere that was open.
Speaker: So it's not like he could have like hopped into a bar or like a porta potty or something.
Speaker: Like he was kind of away from everything at that point.
Speaker: Yeah, let me see where that is.
Speaker: So the Mexican-American Cultural Center is, it's really close to Rainy Street.
Speaker: Like you go two blocks over and there's a traffic circle with Rainy Street.
Speaker: But then 6th Street is pretty far away from there.
Speaker: It's a long walk.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's like a mile away, but that's going straight down 35, which I don't think he did.
Speaker: He'd probably be going down some side streets because then he would be able to be picked up on other cameras.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It was just, it's a distance.
Speaker: It's a mile.
Speaker: I know I'm not walking a mile when I'm drunk.
Speaker: Especially if you're as drunk as his friend said that he was, or I guess they thought he was.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the report's like almost 70 pages, but a lot of it was multiple versions of events at the beginning when he was located.
Speaker: And then there's just random pages with, I don't know, nothing really.
Speaker: So I thought it was worth an update and it was one of the few that I saw was closed.
Speaker: So I submitted the request and didn't get any audio recording, surveillance footage.
Speaker: I didn't get everything, but it was an interesting read nonetheless.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Most of the other ones are still open?
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: I think I need to go in and double check and see which ones they consider open and which ones they maybe consider closed.
Speaker: But I know they're pretty tight-lipped about some of them right now, and I don't know why.
Speaker: I mean, I can speculate why, but it doesn't say for sure.
Speaker: But then I'm also curious if some of the initial crime scenes were handled the way that this one was.
Speaker: Probably.
Speaker: because of the water, because of, you know, maybe losing evidence or if they're not recovering the body appropriately from like a water recovery.
Speaker: Is there a way to find out if ketamine is potentially being used?
Speaker: Because some of like the, who was it?
Speaker: JJ, I guess maybe it was honey, the last name where the transient saw him fall into the river, but then he wasn't recovered for,
Speaker: Eight days.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And he was throwing up into the river, which of course alcohol can do that to you, but apparently so can ketamine.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know if there's just, I don't know.
Speaker: It just, there's a lot of questions and watching that dateline just made that little red flag pop up.
Speaker: So yeah, maybe I'll look and see if I can get any more, but I turned in that request.
Speaker: What was that?
Speaker: It took a while.
Speaker: And here we are.
Speaker: It took till August to get it in.
Speaker: That's all I have for the update on Julio.
Speaker: Maybe we can get some feedback from you guys.
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Speaker: I know, right?
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Speaker: Stay unstable posers.
Speaker: Have a good night.
Speaker: Bye.
