Texas' First Woman Lethal Injection - Karla Faye Tucker

Transcript

Speaker: Good evening, posers.

Speaker: I'm Sarah.

Speaker: And I'm Jen.

Speaker: And we are Unstable Moms.

Speaker: So, Jennifer, do you have anything new going on with you this week, last week, whenever it was?

Speaker: Not really.

Speaker: Just the same old bullshit.

Speaker: Different day.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Basically.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I have learned that I am going to be exhausted until about January.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, because you got all the football, all that stuff going on.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So next Friday, we have a football game that's about two hours away on Friday night.

Speaker: And then we'll have to go back to the school by like nine o'clock in the morning on Saturday so that we can drive all the way back two hours away for a band competition.

Speaker: In the opposite direction.

Speaker: Not the opposite direction.

Speaker: It's just a little farther, like more directly south.

Speaker: The other one is more west.

Speaker: Anyway, and then Wyatt starts soccer on Sunday.

Speaker: Oh, you're going to be busy.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You're going to be exhausted.

Speaker: I'm already tired.

Speaker: It's 11 o'clock on Sunday night, and it's my carpool day, so I will be up at 430.

Speaker: That sounds disgusting.

Speaker: I'll be asleep.

Speaker: I'll sleep for both of us.

Speaker: I'll text you.

Speaker: Don't.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: I was going to say, I'm going to pull up your text and it's going to have the Jennifer has do not disturb.

Speaker: Oh, I took that thing off.

Speaker: So nobody knows when it's on.

Speaker: I didn't know that was a thing.

Speaker: I also don't know how to set the do not disturb.

Speaker: It'll be Vyvanse and caffeine kind of day tomorrow.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And lots of it.

Speaker: Not the Vyvanse.

Speaker: Just the caffeine.

Speaker: No, I'm just going to take what the doctor tells me to take.

Speaker: I don't want to die.

Speaker: Yeah, I prefer you didn't.

Speaker: But yeah, I'm already tired.

Speaker: So when I was researching this episode that we're going to get into, I was using, I use Ancestry.com a lot to compare dates and like get family members and all of that.

Speaker: And I know I already told you this, but our whole three listeners don't know.

Speaker: The most amazing three listeners ever.

Speaker: Anyway, I was on Ancestry.

Speaker: On the bottom of the page, it had a section with yearbook photos of people in your tree.

Speaker: So I'm like scrolling through and I found people in my tree.

Speaker: I mean our family tree.

Speaker: You are part of this family.

Speaker: And let me tell you, I went down the longest three-hour rabbit hole looking at pictures of your mom and our uncles and my mom.

Speaker: It was amazing.

Speaker: Like anybody that you could find, you're like, oh, yearbook.

Speaker: I can find anybody.

Speaker: I tried to find John's dad's yearbook, but it didn't go back that far.

Speaker: I even tried to find granny's, but it didn't go back that far.

Speaker: But yeah, I was scrolling through all the pictures.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: ADHD.

Speaker: I was hyper-focused.

Speaker: And I know I sent you like an entire photo album and I would post them.

Speaker: But I'm positive this would be our last episode ever because your mother would kill us.

Speaker: Literally murder us.

Speaker: She would murder us.

Speaker: We would be on another podcast.

Speaker: But apparently Ancestry has started uploading yearbooks a couple of years ago and I had no idea, but I'm obsessed.

Speaker: Yeah, I'm gonna have to, I guess, find the yearbook so I can upload ours.

Speaker: Yeah, I was looking for ours and I was curious, but also grateful that our graduating class is a bunch of slackers and there's no evidence yet, but I know it's coming.

Speaker: I'm sure eventually.

Speaker: So after my journey down memory lane back to like the mid 1970s, early 80s, you know, before I was born, I decided to actually get some work done.

Speaker: So we have an episode to record for you three BFFs.

Speaker: All three posers.

Speaker: All three posers with us.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Going back to your deranged obsession with Death Row, Jennifer, we are doing another episode from the Death Row Rolodex.

Speaker: And for those of you that know what that is, you're my peeps.

Speaker: Those of you that don't, it's probably way past your bedtime.

Speaker: Yes, go to bed.

Speaker: But also, wait, finish listening to this first.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Before getting started, I need to bring you our first fun fact about lethal injections.

Speaker: You didn't know that you were in for a history lesson tonight, did you, Jen?

Speaker: Nope, but you've been coming with the fun facts lately, so.

Speaker: I mean, I feel like it's part of our, it's our vibe.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: But I guarantee it's going to be the winning answer when you go to trivia night or you're on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?

Speaker: It could be.

Speaker: I mean, is that show still around?

Speaker: I don't know, but there are trivia nights at least.

Speaker: For sure.

Speaker: Either way, you'll think of it later.

Speaker: I've never been to one, but I'm sure they exist.

Speaker: I want to go to a trivia night, but I am terrified that I'm an idiot and I'm not going to know any of the answers.

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: It'll be that one night.

Speaker: My team of strangers down.

Speaker: Do you do it with strangers or do you go with people?

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I've never been.

Speaker: I'm terrified.

Speaker: Social anxiety at its fineness.

Speaker: Yeah, it would be that one night where it's like all the questions that you don't know.

Speaker: And I feel like I have a lot of random facts floating around in there.

Speaker: I just got to wait for the opportunity where they're relevant.

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So when I was perusing the World Wide Web, I came across a chart with the lethal injection stats.

Speaker: It listed like the method, the total number of executions that have been performed, and the botched execution rate.

Speaker: Oh, okay.

Speaker: Oh.

Speaker: I don't like that.

Speaker: And I know most of these people have committed heinous crimes, allegedly.

Speaker: So I know some people, it's not always 100%.

Speaker: That's why I'm iffy on the death penalty.

Speaker: But you don't want to fuck that part up.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: You don't want to fuck up killing somebody in that situation.

Speaker: So here we go.

Speaker: There's only three different types that were listed, so this won't take long.

Speaker: So

Speaker: lethal gas the number of executions was 593 the percentage rate in the united states we don't really use gas yeah um so the botched execution rate is 5.4 percent that's kind of high right that's a lot yeah i mean i don't know math but that sounds like a lot

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I was able to help Grace with her geometry homework the other night.

Speaker: And it included algebra, like finding the equation, whatever it is.

Speaker: I was able to find her mistake.

Speaker: Absolutely not.

Speaker: I was like, hold on, I need my glasses.

Speaker: I need a calculator.

Speaker: I need to remember all these rules.

Speaker: But once I did, I got it right.

Speaker: I was like, you messed up a negative and a positive.

Speaker: Boom.

Speaker: Here's the correct answer.

Speaker: Oh, good job.

Speaker: Because I would have been like, no, it looks good.

Speaker: Well, she had the equation and then the correct answer, and then she had to show the process.

Speaker: And she messed up somewhere in the process so that the way she finished didn't make the right answer.

Speaker: She was like, it's a decimal.

Speaker: And if it's a decimal, then you're most likely wrong.

Speaker: I was like, okay, well, you were.

Speaker: So the next method would be lethal injection.

Speaker: The number of executions for lethal injection were 1,054.

Speaker: And I guess I should have figured out when they did this little table.

Speaker: But anyway, the botched execution rate was 7.12%.

Speaker: Jeez.

Speaker: That's a lot of people that they're failing to kill.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Don't look at the last one yet while you Google when the chart was made because th is is funny.

Speaker: No, I want to know what, like how many, how many, you said 1,054.

Speaker: So like what is about 7%.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That's like,

Speaker: Almost 74 people.

Speaker: That's what I was thinking.

Speaker: But I'm like, now we got to figure out whose executions are getting botched and start doing those stories.

Speaker: That's so bad.

Speaker: It's very bad.

Speaker: You ready for the last one?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Firing squad.

Speaker: Number of executions, 34.

Speaker: Botched execution rate, a big fat 0%.

Speaker: Oh, well, I mean, that's if you shoot him in the right spot.

Speaker: I told John, he's like, yeah, there's no way you're going to fuck that up.

Speaker: But yeah, so now we need to go down this rabbit hole of who, what, when, where, why, how the fuck does this happen?

Speaker: Well, that's what I think.

Speaker: Oh, I think I said something about them being able to choose how they're executed, but maybe not here.

Speaker: There's like other states maybe that you can choose how you're executed or you used to be able to choose it.

Speaker: I think you still can.

Speaker: I want to say it's only like a handful of states that still allow a firing squad.

Speaker: And like everybody from what I understand or what I remember hearing was everybody that is on the firing squad.

Speaker: Only one of them has the real bullet.

Speaker: But nobody knows who has it.

Speaker: Oh, just so that you can't feel like them as people can't be like, oh, I'm the one that did it.

Speaker: And now I have this guilt hanging over me.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: But it would be like the best option to choose if you're having to be executed.

Speaker: I think you just put me to sleep and dope me up and I'll be out.

Speaker: If it works.

Speaker: About 74 people out of a thousand, I would take my chances.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I mean, just shoot me in the head.

Speaker: What if you bleed out and you like don't die?

Speaker: There's no guarantee that they're going to shoot you in the exact right spot.

Speaker: And even then, if they shoot you in the heart, your brain is still going.

Speaker: If they shoot you in the brain, your body's still going, right?

Speaker: Yeah, but at least I won't feel it.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I'm not going to murder anybody that requires me to be executed, so.

Speaker: Same.

Speaker: Yeah, I told John and he was like, yeah, you don't mess that one up.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: I mean, I guess if they don't die right away, they're going to die.

Speaker: So it's not really a botch.

Speaker: Yeah, but I need details.

Speaker: I need the statistics.

Speaker: But this clearly isn't a job that you want to mess up.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: This is the one time you have to do your job.

Speaker: Yeah, 100%.

Speaker: One job.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They all should take after the firing squad with their 100% success rate.

Speaker: Make it happen, Kevin.

Speaker: Okay, so moving on to actual successful death penalty, death sentence, execution, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker: This week, we're going to discuss Carla Faye Tucker.

Speaker: And I had no idea that this case was as big as it was or is still currently.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I was just thinking, hey, I did the first person executed in Texas by lethal injection, which also did not know how big of a thing that one was until I researched it.

Speaker: But that's why I like doing this because I learned things.

Speaker: And so I decided to do the first female executed.

Speaker: So here we are.

Speaker: Buckle up, Jennifer.

Speaker: It's a doozy.

Speaker: I just got the vision of when we were in high school at Hot Topic where they would have the

Speaker: Belts with the bottle caps on them and the buckle of the belt was a seatbelt.

Speaker: Do you remember those?

Speaker: Oh, yeah.

Speaker: I wanted one so bad, but I was so poor I could never have one.

Speaker: Anyway, scooch on back to where we're supposed to be.

Speaker: So Carla was born on November 18th of 1959 to Lawrence, Earl Tucker, and Carolyn Ann Moore.

Speaker: And I was like, I wonder if we're related to her.

Speaker: Yeah, could be.

Speaker: They're in the Houston area, grainy.

Speaker: Lived in Houston at one point in time.

Speaker: Anyway, hopefully not.

Speaker: But similar last name to some of our relatives.

Speaker: And guess what, Jennifer?

Speaker: What?

Speaker: She's a Scorpio.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: It's like me.

Speaker: You guys have something in common.

Speaker: I hope that's the only thing that you and Carla have in common.

Speaker: I'm hoping.

Speaker: I hope so too.

Speaker: I'm going to give you some more information and we'll just do a compare and contrast T-chart when you're trying to make a big decision.

Speaker: Anyway, her father was a longshoreman.

Speaker: Do you know what that is?

Speaker: No.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: I do.

Speaker: Thank you to Google.

Speaker: I learned that it was someone who loads and unload ships like in a shipyard.

Speaker: Another fun fact for your knowledge.

Speaker: Again, trivia, longshoremen, unload ships.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Where was I?

Speaker: Her parents.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Dad worked on the boat docks and her mom was a homemaker and they had three daughters in total, Carla being the youngest, and they were born back to back.

Speaker: So basically three under three, which is absolutely awful.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I would never do that.

Speaker: Ever.

Speaker: That sounds so bad.

Speaker: Yeah, so glad I can't do that now.

Speaker: From an article I read on Crime Library.

Speaker: Oh, I can't talk.

Speaker: CrimeLibrary.org.

Speaker: Carla's younger years were pretty good.

Speaker: And in an interview, she stated that her family would take vacations to Caney Creek in Brazoria, Texas.

Speaker: where they owned a little cottage.

Speaker: So they would just go up there and vacation.

Speaker: Over the course of her childhood, her parents were very on again, off again.

Speaker: Her parents eventually called it quits and divorced in 1970.

Speaker: And in that same article, they reference an interview that Carla did where she talks about her relationship with her mother.

Speaker: And it turns out that Carla's mom was a sex worker prior to her relationship with her dad.

Speaker: Interesting.

Speaker: Yeah, that's something I don't have in common.

Speaker: Yeah, no, definitely not.

Speaker: Well, we still don't have that in common.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Mom's never been a sexist.

Speaker: Yeah, no.

Speaker: I hope not.

Speaker: She would have some splainin' to do.

Speaker: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker: Anyway, throughout the course of their marriage, Carla's mother was having extramarital affairs.

Speaker: And I think that would probably do it for me on the whole marriage thing.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I prefer that doesn't happen.

Speaker: So while having a hard enough time navigating her parents' tumultuous relationship, Carla stated that she felt like she didn't quite fit in with her sisters.

Speaker: She said she felt like the ugly duckling compared to them.

Speaker: They were both blonde hair, blue eyed, fair skin.

Speaker: And Carla was quite the opposite.

Speaker: Layered with her insecurities about a large birthmark on her forearm, she felt like the on man out, which is pretty sad.

Speaker: I hate that feeling sad.

Speaker: Not included or not equal.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Especially with your siblings.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: She also mentioned that she struggled with her relationships with peers.

Speaker: She didn't really engage with other kids in the neighborhood because she struggled with those relationships too.

Speaker: But with all of that going on at the ripe old age of nine, Carla begins smoking pot.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: That's so young.

Speaker: Nine.

Speaker: Not even two whole hands.

Speaker: How do you even get into that at that age?

Speaker: Well, I'm going to tell you.

Speaker: Oh, okay.

Speaker: I gotta be patient.

Speaker: She blames her sisters.

Speaker: Oh, of course.

Speaker: She mentions in the interview that I read on crime library website that it was her sisters who initially pressured her into drugs and they weren't much older.

Speaker: So like 10 and 11.

Speaker: And finally, when the divorce proceedings finished,

Speaker: Carla's dad was awarded custody of all three of the girls.

Speaker: And as it turns out, Carla's feelings of not fitting in were not so far-fetched.

Speaker: During the course of their divorce proceedings, she learned that she was actually conceived during one of her mother's affairs.

Speaker: However, her dad took her in as his own.

Speaker: So now as a single dad working two shifts to make ends meet, the girls take full advantage of being on their own.

Speaker: Carla soon realizes that the Mary Jane doesn't quite hit like it used to.

Speaker: And she began shooting up heroin with her sisters at the ripe old age of 11.

Speaker: What?

Speaker: Well, just before she turned 11, but still we're close.

Speaker: That's insane.

Speaker: I know I couldn't even like wrap my brain around that.

Speaker: I was like reading over this, making corrections with John and he was like, come again.

Speaker: It's insane.

Speaker: No way.

Speaker: I don't even think I knew what those things – like I probably knew what drugs were, but like to shoot up heroin at such – like at 10 or 11, like I wouldn't even know what to do.

Speaker: How do you find a vein that young?

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Or we're in the 60s.

Speaker: Unless they were just like willy-nilly shooting stuff into their arms in hopes that they hit a vein, which is also really dangerous.

Speaker: Clearly they figured it out.

Speaker: It's crazy.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Crazy.

Speaker: So while she was still tagging along with her sisters, shooting up heroin, smoking pot, they began hanging out with a gang called the Banditos, who are known for being entrepreneurs, if you know what I mean, i.e.

Speaker: selling drugs if you can't read between the lines.

Speaker: And they were also known for hosting orgies.

Speaker: Oh.

Speaker: And so I just want to, like, time out real quick.

Speaker: All of these people that they're hanging out with, the banditos, things like that, they're a motorcycle gang.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And I didn't include a whole lot of that in here.

Speaker: I just left that part out a lot because I think it gives people who enjoy riding motorcycles and do ride with motorcycle clubs and stuff a bad rap because not everybody is like this.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: I mean, my husband has a Harley.

Speaker: He loves to ride and he's definitely not hosting orgies and he is definitely –

Speaker: Not an entrepreneur.

Speaker: In that sense.

Speaker: In that sense.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Anyway, little disclaimer, not all bikers are bad.

Speaker: So he planned, John, however, side note, John, we want him to be Mike Myers for Halloween because we're going to do this big, like, you know, the Christmas archway that we put over the sidewalk.

Speaker: We're going to use the same archway with the PVC, but we're going to make it like a Halloween haunted house walkthrough tunnel thing.

Speaker: And I told him he should be Mike Myers and pop out at the end.

Speaker: Like he's fully invested now.

Speaker: I worked on him long enough that he's in it with me.

Speaker: That's pretty awesome.

Speaker: But he's like, I need to wear that Mike Myers costume on my motorcycle on the way to work on Halloween.

Speaker: I was like, yes, you absolutely have to do that.

Speaker: Can he see through it?

Speaker: Well, I'm going to buy him a mask.

Speaker: So probably.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: But I just wonder, like,

Speaker: If he'll be able to see through it well enough to drive his motorcycle.

Speaker: I'm sure that he'll be able, because he wears a helmet without a face mask when it's warm.

Speaker: So I'm sure he'll be able to adjust the mask to where he can see and have it held in place with his helmet.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Surely.

Speaker: He'll figure it out.

Speaker: For Christmas, he has this big, tacky, ugly Christmas sweater.

Speaker: And it's got Santa Claus holding a beer on it.

Speaker: And he wears that on this motorcycle.

Speaker: Oh, nice.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Maybe we need to get him, like.

Speaker: The turkey outfit.

Speaker: The Easter bunny.

Speaker: All of them.

Speaker: Reindeer antlers on the bike.

Speaker: Yeah, there you go.

Speaker: He doesn't listen to this anyway, so he would never know it was us.

Speaker: Just start getting him random stuff to wear all the time for every little bitty holiday.

Speaker: Hey, tomorrow is National Hamburger Day, so you should get him like a hamburger hat.

Speaker: I know it's too late, but he doesn't wear his, he doesn't drive the bike all the time.

Speaker: Anyway, for when he does, he needs outfits for his motorcycle.

Speaker: Anyway, so these banditos that were selling drugs and hosting orgies were the perfect place for a couple of teen girls to go and hang out.

Speaker: They were like, of course, great, a great influential group of gentlemen right there.

Speaker: So from my understanding, Carla didn't

Speaker: initially partake in the festivities, for lack of a better term.

Speaker: She just sat back and took notes.

Speaker: But then one day, Carla goes over to the house where they would all hang out.

Speaker: When she was looking for her sisters, she went and knocked on the door and learned that they weren't there.

Speaker: But before leaving, Homie was like, hey, you want to shoot up some heroin?

Speaker: So naturally she agreed.

Speaker: And then they ride off into the sunset together and live happily ever after.

Speaker: The end.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Good night.

Speaker: Just kidding.

Speaker: Don't leave.

Speaker: So they do go for a ride on his motorcycle and he stops at a romantic secluded place and they have adult cuddles.

Speaker: And this is a grown man.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I think she's like 14 at this point.

Speaker: Maybe.

Speaker: No, she's younger.

Speaker: That's amazing.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And at that point, Carla discovers that adult cuddles on heroin are her jam.

Speaker: That is her thing.

Speaker: Great.

Speaker: So she's hooked.

Speaker: Meanwhile, her dad was doing his best to get a handle on all the girls to no avail.

Speaker: He was pretty strict as much as he could be while working so much that it didn't seem to make a difference.

Speaker: It would appear that the girls just walked all over him.

Speaker: He tried.

Speaker: And kind of didn't know what to do with them at that point.

Speaker: And so Carla then eventually drops out of school in the middle of seventh grade.

Speaker: So I guess at that point she was about 13, 12, 13, because I was 14 in freshman year.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: She was still being shuffled between her strict father's house and her mother's neglectful parenting.

Speaker: So for instance, like if her mom were to catch her smoking pot in her room, she wouldn't get reprimanded.

Speaker: Her mom would just come in and school her on the techniques for rolling a proper joint.

Speaker: Oh, what a great mom.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So sisters introducing mom, who knows?

Speaker: Condoning.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And not only that, her mother had gone back to sex work as a way to support herself after the divorce.

Speaker: So that was her role model.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: role model she's just a really stand-up mom yeah what i strive to be i hope not jennifer i don't really really hope not i need to get into sex work i mean they make good money you could just sell your feet pictures yeah no face no body just feet just feet with your monkey toes

Speaker: I mean, at least you keep your toes pedicured.

Speaker: That's true.

Speaker: So eventually the girls become way too much for their father to handle.

Speaker: And Carla goes to live with her mother, which for me, I think is best case scenario.

Speaker: Just putting that out there.

Speaker: Kidding.

Speaker: I kid.

Speaker: Who doesn't want a mom teaching you how to roll joints and push you into sex work?

Speaker: I mean, I can't think of any kid.

Speaker: Yeah, I think I forgot to mention that part, though.

Speaker: Her mom had her working as an escort at the age of 14.

Speaker: Oh, well, you know, you got to get that extra money.

Speaker: Bravo, mom.

Speaker: So soon after, they begin traveling together with bands like the, is it the Ailman Band, the Allman Band?

Speaker: Brothers, not band.

Speaker: Allman Brothers, the Eagles and the Marshall Tucker Band.

Speaker: Where they were considered to be groupies together.

Speaker: Good old mother-daughter bonding right there.

Speaker: So fast forward a couple years and Carla meets Stephen Griffith, who is seven years older.

Speaker: And they began dating and eventually got married when she was just 18.

Speaker: Or at least she made it to 18.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Barely, barely surprised with all the drugs and sex and rock and roll, quite literally.

Speaker: They apparently had a very toxic relationship and would often get into physical altercations.

Speaker: Mix that with drugs and alcohol, which are obviously the secrets to a successful happy marriage.

Speaker: That's my problem.

Speaker: That's it, Jennifer.

Speaker: You're not.

Speaker: Not drinking and doing drugs and fist fighting with your husband.

Speaker: That's why you got divorced.

Speaker: That's got to be it.

Speaker: That makes sense.

Speaker: That's why I'm happily married.

Speaker: You do all those things?

Speaker: No, not at all.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: I promise I don't.

Speaker: Don't come for me.

Speaker: And then they later divorced in May of 1983 after five years of marriage.

Speaker: From what I understand, they may have been separated much earlier.

Speaker: A lot of articles say that their marriage was brief.

Speaker: So I guess depending on your definition of brief, five years does not seem brief.

Speaker: But anyway, legally, on paper, they divorced in May of 83.

Speaker: That was not brief at all.

Speaker: That was way too long to be in a relationship like that.

Speaker: Yeah, but I think that they separated much sooner and just like the paperwork was later because she meets somebody else in 81.

Speaker: So during her marriage to Stephen, Carla's mother becomes ill and she spent about nine days in the hospital in December of 1979 and eventually passed away on December 24th of 1979 from

Speaker: cardiac arrest, intestinal hemorrhage, and alcoholic liver disease.

Speaker: And she was only 43.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: That's a lot of damage to your body in 43 years.

Speaker: Not even 43 years because you were not doing that as a toddler.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: You are not smoking the marijuana as a toddler.

Speaker: I mean, with this family, you never know.

Speaker: Not our family, her family.

Speaker: Yes, yes, that's what I meant.

Speaker: No, not our family.

Speaker: The way that came out, well, with this family, I promise we're not like that.

Speaker: We're not that unstable, I promise.

Speaker: A little bit, but not like that.

Speaker: We do not abuse our children.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: But like we said, she did live a very hard life.

Speaker: And with it being liver issues, I mean, all the drugs and booze will do that.

Speaker: It just goes right through the liver.

Speaker: And then once your liver crops out, like that's it.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So that's just crazy to me.

Speaker: 43.

Speaker: Gosh, that's only seven years away from me.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like two years for you.

Speaker: I'm kidding.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I love you.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: Might as well be too.

Speaker: I know, right?

Speaker: I mean, we feel like it.

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker: So later on, while she was married to Griffith, she became friends with Sean and Jerry Dean, and the couple introduced Carla to Daniel Garrett in 1981.

Speaker: And then her and Daniel started dating.

Speaker: And then at that time she was 21 and Daniel was 35.

Speaker: So I'm also not sure if Carla and her husband, Stephen, were still an item and she was following in her mom's footsteps with all of the affairs or if they were already separated and just not legally divorced.

Speaker: So and that was in 81.

Speaker: So she's quite an age difference still.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So from 18 to 21, she's already moved on to somebody else.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: No, but I mean, because you said that he was 35.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: They were 14 years apart.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: 14 years her senior.

Speaker: So now that we have some history on Carla, we're going to go meet Deborah, Debbie Thornton.

Speaker: I have a hard time with her last name.

Speaker: It looks like Thornton, but there's a Thornton.

Speaker: Thornton.

Speaker: Words are not my my thing.

Speaker: Anyway, so Debbie was born on May 10th of 1951 in Columbus, Ohio, to William List and Harriet Carlson.

Speaker: She had moved to Houston with her brother in order to work at her father's trailer manufacturing company, and records show that she had been married and divorced a couple of times.

Speaker: And on May 12th of 1981, she married Richard Thornton.

Speaker: So then on June 12th of 83, this would be about two years after they were married, Debbie and her husband Richard got into an argument and Debbie went out that night.

Speaker: She stormed off and ended up at a party with Jerry Dean.

Speaker: And the two left the party together where she then decided to sleep at Jerry's apartment.

Speaker: And if you recall, Jerry was a friend of Carla's who was married to Sean, who was also a close friend of Carla.

Speaker: They were the couple that introduced Carla and Danny.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: While Jerry and Debbie are hanging out and partying it up a couple days prior, like right around the same time, Carla was on a three-day bender slash party for her sister's birthday.

Speaker: And Sean's there.

Speaker: And apparently she is battered from a physical fight that she had with Jerry.

Speaker: And apparently Carla hated Jerry.

Speaker: like hated his guts.

Speaker: And the feeling was mutual.

Speaker: He did not like Carla.

Speaker: And it created a huge point of contention between Sean and Jerry because Jerry didn't want Sean hanging out with Carla.

Speaker: And every time Carla would be around them, she and Jerry would get into a fight and they were known to get into physical like fistfights with each other.

Speaker: And one time it was reported that Carla punched Jerry in the face with his glasses on and he ended up having to go to the hospital to have glass removed from his eye.

Speaker: And this is how much they just adored each other.

Speaker: Now it's your kitty.

Speaker: It's your orange cat, not mine.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: It's always the orange ones, though.

Speaker: They're such assholes.

Speaker: He's not.

Speaker: He's really sweet.

Speaker: He's just vocal.

Speaker: I mean, he's like, I am.

Speaker: Listen to me.

Speaker: No, no, no.

Speaker: Don't get on the keyboard.

Speaker: Max has started, like, since we started giving them the slow feeder bowls and only feeding them, like, a strict two times a day.

Speaker: We have to put the cat bowls away so they eat.

Speaker: And when they walk away, I pick them up and put them away.

Speaker: But I make sure, of course, they've eaten.

Speaker: Max will go and open the pantry.

Speaker: He puts his paw under the bottom and clicks the door open and then uses his nose to open it all the way.

Speaker: Because we used to stack the bowls on top of their containers of food so that he would go in there and eat what was left.

Speaker: So now we have to shove all of the food bowls inside the bucket with the food.

Speaker: He got smart.

Speaker: They act like they're not fed.

Speaker: Apparently, cats should only eat like a third of a cup of food a day.

Speaker: They get that twice a day.

Speaker: Yeah, I know.

Speaker: Crazy.

Speaker: But I guess whenever they were used to it to begin with and then you cut it off, they're like, wait.

Speaker: I mean, if they wouldn't barf everywhere, I wouldn't have to.

Speaker: True.

Speaker: Anyway, let's get back to murder.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Back to murder.

Speaker: Back to murder.

Speaker: So the fact that Jerry had assaulted Sean only fueled Carla's dislike for him.

Speaker: So after days of drinking and using a massive cocktail of speed, heroin, pills, Dilaudid, Valium, from the sounds of it, anything they could get their hands on, they decided to go and handle business with Jerry.

Speaker: So the plan was to go in and steal his motorcycle parts.

Speaker: And Carla had at one time mentioned that she wanted to take his motorcycle parts for a motorcycle he was building and use them to make a bike for herself.

Speaker: And they also knew that it was like a huge insult to a biker to mess with their motorcycle.

Speaker: It's just very disrespectful.

Speaker: So they wanted to send a huge like fuck you to Jerry while high and drunk.

Speaker: It's a good way to do it.

Speaker: It's a good way.

Speaker: Best way.

Speaker: Liquid courage, right?

Speaker: In any form.

Speaker: Heroin's a liquid, right?

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: Is it?

Speaker: Eventually.

Speaker: I mean, if you're going to shoot it up, it has to be.

Speaker: Well, I know that much.

Speaker: I guess that's where my brain went.

Speaker: Anyway, liquid courage.

Speaker: So then Danny and Carla, along with their friend Jimmy, changed into all black attire and they grabbed a shotgun and a pair of gloves and they headed out.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: Once they arrived at Jerry's residence, Carla and Danny went to go inside and scope it out.

Speaker: Some sources say they had a key and I read somewhere that they had to pick the lock.

Speaker: But in court transcripts, they mentioned that there was, I guess the police report, they mentioned there were no signs of forced entry.

Speaker: And then later on in some of the court documents, they mentioned that they had taken the keys from Sean.

Speaker: So they had Sean's set of keys to get in.

Speaker: Inside, they see Jerry's Harley Davidson motorcycle in the living room, and it was all broken down since he was working on rebuilding it.

Speaker: And here I'm going to give like a huge trigger warning.

Speaker: I'm going to go over what transpired that night.

Speaker: There are some graphic details about the homicide.

Speaker: And if it's not your jam, maybe skip ahead.

Speaker: Just a little bit.

Speaker: There's a lot.

Speaker: It's morbid.

Speaker: So at this point, there's lots.

Speaker: Here we go.

Speaker: Buckle up, buttercup.

Speaker: There's lots of different...

Speaker: points of view on what happened.

Speaker: And I read like lots of different articles about it.

Speaker: I read court transcripts, the appeals transcripts, you know, crimelibrary.org.

Speaker: There's so many different places that I read and every, it has the general theme going on.

Speaker: So I just kind of not generalized it.

Speaker: It's as factual as I could put it together.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Because, of course, Carla is going to say this and then Danny is going to say this and then so-and-so is going to say this and then it's going to get reported this way.

Speaker: So generally, this is what happened.

Speaker: So at some point, Jerry wakes up and Danny hits him in the head several times with a ball peen hammer.

Speaker: Do you know what those are?

Speaker: No.

Speaker: So it's one of those hammers that's round on the end with like a little point.

Speaker: You know what I'm talking about?

Speaker: So you have the flat surface for the nail and the other side is round with the point.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So we hit him in the head with that.

Speaker: Oh.

Speaker: Seems nice.

Speaker: And so I also read at some point that Carla hit him over the head first or Carla was on top of him and then he tried to pull Carla off or they told him, you know,

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: There was just all these different accounts of what happened.

Speaker: But this to me from like court records and stuff seems like to be the most accurate way that it transpired, I guess.

Speaker: Anyway, so Danny hits him with the ball peen hammers.

Speaker: Hammer, there's only one.

Speaker: And Carla then stated in interviews that she began or he began making a gurgling sound.

Speaker: So she picked up a pickaxe.

Speaker: And began quote unquote picking him to get the sound to stop.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: And all of these things they found in his apartment.

Speaker: Because apparently he, Jerry's in his line of work.

Speaker: He was one of the, not a construction worker.

Speaker: But he ran the like power lines and stuff in the ground.

Speaker: So he would use these things to dig up the dirt to get the lines ran.

Speaker: So anyway.

Speaker: Meanwhile, Debbie, who remember she went home with Jerry that night.

Speaker: Was laying in bed next to him.

Speaker: when all this was taking place.

Speaker: It's said that they pushed Debbie down and put her under the bedding and told her basically to stay under the covers and be quiet if she wants to make it out of their lives.

Speaker: And they ultimately began quote unquote picking Debbie with the pickaxe, ultimately killing her.

Speaker: She literally did not know any of these people.

Speaker: And this is like the worst case of wrong place, wrong time I've ever heard of.

Speaker: For real.

Speaker: It was terrible.

Speaker: So even though they told her to stay under the covers, did she not?

Speaker: And then that's why they just killed her?

Speaker: Or they just did it anyway?

Speaker: From my understanding, they decided to because I guess she had seen what happened.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: They were high and drunk.

Speaker: I didn't get any real concrete reason other than that she was there.

Speaker: And some accounts say that while they were picking her, I hate that term, but that's what they keep calling it.

Speaker: even in court records, that she was like, just kill me.

Speaker: I can't handle this anymore.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: I mean, that's got to be torture.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So she had some like blunt force trauma to her back and things like that.

Speaker: So while this is going on and it's Carla who is doing all of the quote unquote picking, Jerry calls for Jimmy to come inside from the car to help him move the bike parts and load it up in Jerry's El Camino.

Speaker: And in a statement to police, Jimmy said that when he walked into the residence, he heard a loud gurgling noise and saw Carla pulling the pickaxe out of one of the bodies.

Speaker: She smiles at him and gives another blow with a weapon.

Speaker: And Jimmy then like books it from the

Speaker: from the house and he's gone.

Speaker: He's out of there.

Speaker: Can't say I blame him.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: So it's reported that Carla and Danny were upset with Jimmy for leaving them at the scene.

Speaker: But later he offers to help them dispose of the El Camino as a way to like make up for his shortcomings, I guess.

Speaker: For lack of a better term.

Speaker: So then after the brutal attacks on Jerry and Debbie, Carla and Danny load up the motorcycle parts into the back of the El Camino along with Jerry and Debbie's wallets and take off with the stolen goods.

Speaker: And this just popped into my head with Charlie Brooks, the first one we did on Death Row.

Speaker: Heroin, stealing.

Speaker: Not a good combo.

Speaker: Just like.

Speaker: It's really not.

Speaker: Maybe just like don't do those things.

Speaker: I mean, if you have to do one, maybe not do the other.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Or maybe just don't do either.

Speaker: Well, right.

Speaker: But if you have to choose one, don't choose both.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Maybe choose the lesser of the two evils.

Speaker: Probably stealing.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Steal.

Speaker: Steal.

Speaker: Don't do heroin.

Speaker: Just steal.

Speaker: Yeah, because heroin's more lifelong.

Speaker: Stealing maybe just once.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And things can be replaced, right?

Speaker: Just steal.

Speaker: I'm totally kidding.

Speaker: People don't steal from people.

Speaker: That's not nice.

Speaker: Also from people or stores or anything.

Speaker: It's not nice.

Speaker: Cars, nothing.

Speaker: Don't do it.

Speaker: Anyway, so after they load everything up, they head on over to Danny's brother's house.

Speaker: And his name is Doug.

Speaker: And Carla begins to tell him what just happened, like what they just did.

Speaker: And she described how they, quote unquote, offed Jerry Dean last night.

Speaker: And she stated that Dan hit him with a hammer and I picked him.

Speaker: And this is where it gets really disgusting.

Speaker: So another huge trigger warning.

Speaker: If this is not your jam, please skip ahead.

Speaker: You've been warned.

Speaker: She then says, Doug, I come with every stroke, implying that she received sexual gratification every time she used the pickaxe on him.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: Disgusting.

Speaker: That's sick.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: It is disgusting.

Speaker: I literally have disgusting and bold capital letters.

Speaker: It is gross.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I read that to John and he was like, oh my God.

Speaker: So yeah, I had no idea that this story was a thing and is obsessed with true crime as I am.

Speaker: I'm surprised I don't, but I'm glad I didn't.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But I spent the last two days hyper-focused on this, getting it all written up and

Speaker: Putting a nice little bow on it that I'm going to dream about it now.

Speaker: Anyway.

Speaker: Yeah, you will.

Speaker: If I ever get to sleep.

Speaker: Yeah, you have Jerry's.

Speaker: I might as well just stay at that ball.

Speaker: Pull an all-nighter.

Speaker: They leave Jerry's wallet with Doug and he burns the contents and throws it away.

Speaker: And then they unload the bike parts into Doug's garage and set off to abandon the El Camino at a location that was close to the Alamo Dome.

Speaker: When they return to the home that Carla shared with her sister, Carrie, they fill her in on the events.

Speaker: And Carrie later reported to police that when Carla was recounting the events, she stated that she, quote unquote, told him not to move, motherfucker, or you're dead.

Speaker: I think rule number one of doing things like this is not to tell a bunch of people that you did it.

Speaker: You don't tell anybody.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: But remember, heroin, alcohol, Dilaudid, pills, speed.

Speaker: Everything.

Speaker: She also said speed wasn't really her thing and it made her a little crazy.

Speaker: So we're going to do speed with heroin.

Speaker: Smart.

Speaker: And volume and Dilaudid and boost.

Speaker: Might as well just get off.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: I mean, go big or go home.

Speaker: She then went on to say that she got a quote unquote thrill while quote unquote picking Jerry.

Speaker: Jerry.

Speaker: And then Carla hands her sister Debbie's wallet as a birthday gift.

Speaker: Oh, what a good birthday gift.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: She's so sweet.

Speaker: Thinking of others.

Speaker: So kind.

Speaker: Her sister Carrie then promptly throws the wallet away and is terrified for her life.

Speaker: Rightfully so.

Speaker: And she moves out of the house the same day and she moves in with Doug, which is Danny's brother.

Speaker: So siblings of the two murderers move in together and then they eventually get married.

Speaker: Weird.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: This is so strange.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: I'd have to read things three or four times to make sure I'm keeping all of these relationships together.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Anyway, so once the news of the murders broke to the media, Carla and Danny saw it on the news and then they boasted about being the quote unquote pickaxe murderers.

Speaker: And then while Carla and Danny were boasting about their handiwork, a man by the name of Gregory Traver, Traver, T-R-A-V-E-R,

Speaker: who was a co-worker of Jerry's, was waiting on him to come pick him up from work, which was like their normal routine.

Speaker: Jerry would always give Gregory a ride.

Speaker: But when he realized that Jerry was running way behind, he walked down the street over to Jerry's residence where he found the door ajar.

Speaker: He then opened the door and called out for his friend and there was no response.

Speaker: While inside, he noticed that the Harley that Jerry had been working on was missing and the stereo and the TV had been moved from the TV cabinet and placed in front.

Speaker: Like, I guess they were going to take those two, but left them.

Speaker: Gregory then made his way to the spare bedroom of the residence, which is a huge mistake, where he discovered Jerry's lifeless body with blood covering his head.

Speaker: He then noticed an unknown female body, which we now know is that of Debbie Thornton, with a pickaxe still embedded in her chest.

Speaker: Wow.

Speaker: And then he calls the popo, which I would definitely do.

Speaker: I'd probably lose my shit, but then I'd call the police.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So in total, Jerry endured 28 stab wounds with the pickaxe.

Speaker: 20 of those would have been fatal alone, like by themselves.

Speaker: One.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So 20 of the 28, if it had only been the one, he would have killed him.

Speaker: It was also determined that the skull fracture from the hammer would have also been a fatal blow.

Speaker: So this was most definitely overkill.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: While the police investigate, Doug asks Danny if he will take the motorcycle parts out of his garage.

Speaker: But I guess it was like he asked him many times and it never happened.

Speaker: And then he later was like, okay, we can keep some of it here.

Speaker: And Doug eventually dumps the bike parts in the Brazos River and then calls a close family friend by the name of J.C.

Speaker: Mosier, who was a detective for the police in Houston.

Speaker: And side note, it's taken five weeks for all of this investigation to go on with like no solid leads until Doug calls the detective and is like, by the way.

Speaker: So Doug then leads them to where he dumped the bike parts and agrees to help the investigators.

Speaker: He ends up wearing a wire and rides his motorcycle over to Danny and Carla's house.

Speaker: Again, bikers are not bad.

Speaker: Not all of them.

Speaker: Where he spends about...

Speaker: Huh?

Speaker: He said some are, some are not.

Speaker: Some are.

Speaker: Some are awful, but most are not.

Speaker: So he then goes over to Danny and Carla's house wearing the wire.

Speaker: And he's there for about an hour and a half recording his brother and Carla discussing the events again.

Speaker: A lot of this is on YouTube, like not the whole recording, but there are recordings on there where you can hear them and they're

Speaker: They're a hard listen.

Speaker: Anyway, after the recording, it gives the detectives enough to arrest the trio for the murders.

Speaker: And in the recording, Carla goes on about the gruesome details of the event.

Speaker: And she recalls the sexual gratification she received every time she hit Jerry with the pickaxe.

Speaker: She was basically saying that she would have an orgasm every time she hit him.

Speaker: And this is something that she repeats more than one time over and over again.

Speaker: She says it to investigators.

Speaker: She mentioned it to her sister.

Speaker: She mentioned it to Doug.

Speaker: She...

Speaker: mentions this to Doug more than one time.

Speaker: So this is like a point that she kind of like drives home when she talks to people.

Speaker: And a side note, I saw nothing about Doug being prosecuted for his role in like destroying evidence.

Speaker: Huh.

Speaker: Cause he.

Speaker: Maybe because he helped him.

Speaker: Well, Doug is the brother.

Speaker: So they went to the brother's house and he kept the motorcycle parts for him knowing what they had just done.

Speaker: He doesn't call law enforcement in five weeks.

Speaker: He doesn't call law enforcement.

Speaker: He then dumps the parts before he decides to call anybody.

Speaker: And then he calls a close family friend.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so I'm wondering if he worked at a deal with them since he had that relationship.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Maybe the fact that he put the wire on and went over to their house to get the information, maybe just his role in helping them.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I'm just kind of thinking like maybe he's like, this is my brother.

Speaker: I don't want to do this.

Speaker: I'm just going to like pretend it didn't happen.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And then he realizes like, hey, these motorcycle parts are in my garage.

Speaker: They've been investigating.

Speaker: This is all over the news.

Speaker: How do I get out of this unscathed?

Speaker: And then dumps them in the water, which is going to get rid of any evidence.

Speaker: But then he's like, well, maybe not.

Speaker: So then he's like, by the way, my brother came over.

Speaker: He murdered them.

Speaker: I dumped the parts here.

Speaker: What can we do to fix this?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I bet he had some kind of guilt.

Speaker: Like I know what happened and I could be helping these people's families.

Speaker: Yeah, but then also on the other end of it, like, is he doing it to get out of any kind of involvement or any kind of consequence or repercussion for not coming forward sooner?

Speaker: Right, that could be it too.

Speaker: Because tampering with evidence at least would have been a charge.

Speaker: Right, yeah.

Speaker: Because he burned the wallet.

Speaker: Anyway, smells fishy.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But during conversations with investigators, Carla denied nothing.

Speaker: She insisted that she was aroused while murdering Jerry, and then all three of them were held without bond for the murders.

Speaker: Jimmy gives his statements to investigators about the events that transpires without the promise of any kind of leniency in regards to his own charges.

Speaker: They do, however, say that they'll relay the information to the judge that he testified so that during his trial, the judge might take that into consideration, but there was no promise of a deal.

Speaker: He's like, here, I'll tell you what you want to know.

Speaker: If you want to pass a note on over, give me a little, you know, a little something, something with the judge.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So then Carla and Danny were tried separately.

Speaker: Carla was charged with capital murder for her part in the murder of both Debbie and Jerry.

Speaker: However, the murder charge for Debbie was later dropped as a deal in exchange for her testimony against Danny during his trial.

Speaker: Carla pleaded not guilty to the charges, even though she never denied her part in the events.

Speaker: And then Danny was the

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: She's like, I did this, but I'm not guilty.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Nah.

Speaker: Nah.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: No things.

Speaker: But, you know, I guess if she would have just pled guilty, she could have done that in exchange for the death penalty, I'm sure.

Speaker: Probably.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Because if you knew they're going after the death penalty, like, hold up.

Speaker: Time out.

Speaker: Time.

Speaker: Pause.

Speaker: Yeah, like, I'll do life.

Speaker: Or maybe she was okay with taking it.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: Tanny was never charged in the murder of Debbie.

Speaker: So after it was all said and done, no one was officially charged for murdering Debbie Thornton.

Speaker: That's terrible.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Because Dani wasn't charged and hers was dropped.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So she has no justice.

Speaker: She does and she doesn't.

Speaker: I mean, I don't, everything I read, I don't think that anybody feels like justice wasn't served or that she was like shafted or anything.

Speaker: But to me, I'm like, hmm, that's not cool.

Speaker: Not cool, bruh.

Speaker: It's not at all.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: When the trial was concluded, both defendants were found guilty and sentenced to death by lethal injection.

Speaker: And now we have all the appeals.

Speaker: This is what took me so long tonight, this evening.

Speaker: So during Danny's appeal, his attorneys argued that one, there was no evidence to suggest that he participated in the assault in order to obtain Jerry's property.

Speaker: And that he wasn't even thinking about stealing from Jerry when he helped Carla in the assault.

Speaker: In the same argument, they said that Jerry was not the victim of a robbery because the assault happened because Carla hated Jerry, not because they were trying to steal from him.

Speaker: I mean, true, but true.

Speaker: And for those reasons, though, the court made an error when convicting him of capital murder.

Speaker: The courts responded that there was ample amount of evidence to suggest that the intent to commit robbery came before they committed the murder.

Speaker: During the trial, Doug, which was Danny's brother, testified that he heard Danny and Carla discussing their plans to steal the motorcycle.

Speaker: Sean, who was Jerry's wife, testified that she was the one who suggested that they steal the bike.

Speaker: And Carla testified that Danny was instrumental in planning the robbery.

Speaker: And Danny made a statement to another witness who testified at the trial that he participated in the assaults because Carrie was being overpowered by Debbie.

Speaker: So he had to go help.

Speaker: So the plan was to steal.

Speaker: And then he had to go help.

Speaker: His second argument was that the verdict was invalid because of an issue with a juror stating that the juror would not be able to answer yes to a guilty verdict based on the facts alone.

Speaker: That the juror stated he would need to have more information like previous criminal history, et cetera, like character information, stuff like that.

Speaker: And that events challenged the juror, but the judge denied the challenge.

Speaker: So in the appeal, they basically said that the judge was wrong.

Speaker: And for that reason, he deserves a new trial.

Speaker: All the judges took time to give their two cents in response to that.

Speaker: And they gave all the reasons supporting, like with support from other case files as to why that didn't warrant a new trial.

Speaker: And it almost seems like the judges were like super pissed that he would say that another judge was wrong in his decision, especially when he murdered Tim Money.

Speaker: And his appeal was denied.

Speaker: And his death sentence would stand.

Speaker: Daniel Garrett, however, would never be put to death because he passed away in prison in 1993 from liver disease.

Speaker: Seems to be a theme with drugs and alcohol.

Speaker: Go figure.

Speaker: So during Carla's appeal, she's got a much longer list.

Speaker: And I don't, I think I got it all, but I may have missed something.

Speaker: They argue that the court failed to define the term deliberately and that they use the definition in more than one way.

Speaker: Throughout the course of the trial.

Speaker: So there was no one specific definition and other.

Speaker: They use that word to describe other things.

Speaker: And basically there was no consistency during the trial.

Speaker: So they're arguing that the verdict be overturned and retried so that they can define that term so that it's not like used willy nilly and confusing people and jurors.

Speaker: Seem like they're pulling a strings there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's like when I was in debate and you would do cross acts.

Speaker: And so you would have like a plan that you had to uphold.

Speaker: And then the negative side would have to come through and like smack down your plan on why it's not going to work.

Speaker: And they would come in with like a topicality where they would just say nothing she said matters because she's off topic because of A, B, and C. And that's what that reminds me of.

Speaker: And it's like.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: The easiest play because then you don't have to even worry about making any arguments or proving why it's not going to work or why they're wrong.

Speaker: It's because you were just off topic the whole time.

Speaker: Anyway, secondly, they argued that the audio recording obtained by Doug for the investigation should have been deemed inadmissible since Danny refused to testify in Carla's trial.

Speaker: So his portion of the recording should have been completely deleted out of any recordings that were admissible.

Speaker: They further argued that because he was not there to testify at the trial, the recording had incriminating statements made by Danny that implicates Carla.

Speaker: And they weren't giving her the chance to cross-examine him, which they argue is a right she has to ensure a fair trial.

Speaker: And that basically all of his statements in the audio would be considered hearsay.

Speaker: Because he's not there for her to question.

Speaker: Or her attorneys to question him.

Speaker: But again, she admitted all of it.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Is it hearsay though?

Speaker: Because it's actually a recording.

Speaker: It's not somebody saying this person said this.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: I think there was like, it's like a roundabout way of saying that since she didn't have the opportunity to cross examine him, which would ensure that she had the fair trial, they would have to deem that as hearsay because

Speaker: They didn't have the opportunity to do everything according to the way it typically should be done.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: That was my understanding.

Speaker: I read this legal jargon a whole lot and I think I understand most of it, but I've also been doing this for a really long time today and I'm really tired, but still she admitted to everything.

Speaker: So not their problem.

Speaker: Next on their list of things.

Speaker: They argued that in regards to her drug use during the criminal acts, the jury was only to consider her drug use a mitigating circumstance if the voluntary intoxication rose to the level of making Carla temporarily insane.

Speaker: That was the only way that her drug use could have been used as a mitigating circumstance during the innocent guilty part of the trial.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And they argued that since the judge placed that stipulation, the jury was not able to consider her voluntary intoxication as a reason for her actions at all, since it had to meet that expectation of making her temporarily insane and so that they wouldn't even consider anything else with the drugs.

Speaker: So it would hold no weight in their decision to convict.

Speaker: And they also argued that it wasn't fair that they were allowed to use drugs

Speaker: the voluntary intoxication as a mitigating circumstance during the penalty phase, but not during the guilt and innocence phase.

Speaker: So during the penalty phase, they were allowed to use that without the thought that it had to cause the temporary insanity.

Speaker: They should just say, hey, she was super intoxicated, so maybe we need to keep that in mind when we're issuing the punishment, but not.

Speaker: But the judge's reply was amazing.

Speaker: They basically said that an expert came on and testified that Carla had maybe two weeks of sobriety in her entire life.

Speaker: And the jury is also able to consider all testimony from the guilt and innocence phase of the trial.

Speaker: So if they felt that her level of voluntary intoxication rose to the level of temporary insanity, which would mean they believe that when she took the drugs and affected her in a way that it rendered her unable to know that her conduct was wrong or unable to follow the law, they can consider that when they're going to go into the punishment phase.

Speaker: Mic drop.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And clearly she knew what she was doing because then she went and she told everybody about it.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: These appellate judges are sassy.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, they probably deal with this crap all the time.

Speaker: Probably.

Speaker: And this was awful.

Speaker: Like, this is one of the most heinous crime, like, murders that has happened in Houston.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And I think they were just like, no dice.

Speaker: This was awful.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Then it was argued that when Jimmy was brought in to testify about what he saw during the murders, that they had asked him if he was receiving a deal.

Speaker: And he said no, but then was like, well, I don't have a deal, but they're going to let the judge know what testified for the prosecution, you know, they're going to let him know.

Speaker: But there's no deal.

Speaker: There's no formal deal.

Speaker: But apparently a woman by the name of Donna Wages, I never could find out how she was connected, but it said that...

Speaker: She apparently she had testified without the jury present in front of the judge that she had overheard a conversation with the assistant DA and another man who she assumed was possibly Jimmy's attorney.

Speaker: And she stated that they were discussing the case.

Speaker: She didn't hear anyone's name mentioned.

Speaker: So they didn't mention Jimmy or Carla or anybody involved in the case.

Speaker: But there was mention of specific things in reference to the case, like the climax during the act and, you know, all the different particulars of the trial.

Speaker: So she knew that that's who they were talking about and that there was mention of the assistant DA speaking to the judge about leniency for Jimmy at his trial for his testimony in Carlos' trial.

Speaker: But she also couldn't identify the other person she saw speaking with the assistant DA and said,

Speaker: Jimmy's attorney was heavily questioned and it was ultimately decided that there was no relevance and they would not allow wages to testify in front of the jury.

Speaker: So they were basically arguing like if her testimony would have been brought in, it could have changed the whole outcome of the trial.

Speaker: But I feel like that was just them grabbing at what they could.

Speaker: Anyway, the last couple of arguments were pretty general, like there was no evidence to support capital murder charges and she wasn't there to rob him, only intimidate him and scare him a little bit.

Speaker: But, you know, take guns and gloves.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: But we're not going to kill him.

Speaker: I mean, in her defense, they didn't use guns or gloves.

Speaker: That makes it better.

Speaker: We know they didn't use the guns.

Speaker: We're not sure if they use the gloves or not.

Speaker: The defense also stated that there was no evidence to suggest that she would reoffend since she had no prior history and no proof that she would be a threat to society.

Speaker: And the judge was like, hold on there, buddy.

Speaker: Do you remember all the physical altercations this woman has been in?

Speaker: She admitted to being involved in.

Speaker: Nice try, but no dice.

Speaker: Like she smacked the student in the head and had glass in his eye.

Speaker: Yeah, not happening.

Speaker: The judges in her appeal all said, fuck off, lady.

Speaker: And she was to remain on death row.

Speaker: And then just like everyone in prison, Carla finds religion and she even marries the prison minister.

Speaker: She found Jesus.

Speaker: Of course she did.

Speaker: Of course she did.

Speaker: And she has been forgiven.

Speaker: And Jesus has filled her heart.

Speaker: And gotten rid of all the bad in her.

Speaker: And that is what she actually says in an interview.

Speaker: There were so many people that supported her in her plea for mercy.

Speaker: It's insane.

Speaker: Like you'll have to go and watch some of the YouTube videos.

Speaker: People are like interviewing her from behind like the glass and their hands are touching together under the screen.

Speaker: And this woman that's interviewing her is almost crying.

Speaker: And I was like, she literally murdered two people with a pickaxe.

Speaker: But she found God.

Speaker: I'm just saying.

Speaker: I'm just kidding.

Speaker: It's not going to take you murdering somebody with a pickaxe to find God.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: If you're supposed to find God, you're going to find God without doing all that.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And this isn't to be condescending to anybody or their religious beliefs or anything.

Speaker: I just think it's a little ironic that when you go to prison and you're there for life or you're going to die in prison or the death penalty, whatever, is when you decide to find God.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Why couldn't we do this before that happened?

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: He's been there the whole time.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: According to other people who believe that stuff.

Speaker: Not saying I don't or I do.

Speaker: I'm just saying.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Just saying.

Speaker: God's always there.

Speaker: Some God, whichever God you believe in or don't.

Speaker: We love you all.

Speaker: I'm going to get off my soapbox now.

Speaker: So anyway, her religion became a huge deal when it came to her death sentence.

Speaker: And she had all kinds of people supporting her pleas for mercy, which I said.

Speaker: And some of her supporters included the World Council of Churches, Pope John Paul II, and Debbie Thornton's brother.

Speaker: What?

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: Other people who tried to appeal to the state of Texas to like see if they'll be like, hey, she's all right.

Speaker: Maybe don't kill her.

Speaker: We're I hope I don't mess this up.

Speaker: Bakri, Barkray, Wally.

Speaker: I can't even say this.

Speaker: N-D-I-A-Y-E, who is the United Nations Commissioner on Summary and Arbitrary Executions.

Speaker: Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, Newt Gingrich, politician, Republican politician who was the Speaker of the House at the time, televangelist Pat Robertson, and even the warden of the prison spoke on her behalf and said that she was a model prisoner and in 14 years she has definitely been reformed.

Speaker: But how did she get all these people on her side?

Speaker: Because she found God.

Speaker: She has been forgiven.

Speaker: Well, that's great.

Speaker: That's great for her.

Speaker: But that doesn't take away what she did.

Speaker: She's a changed person since she found Christ, Jennifer.

Speaker: And if she hadn't have been on all those drugs, none of this would have ever happened.

Speaker: Well, she shouldn't have been doing those drugs then.

Speaker: I mean, I can't say that I disagree with her, but also you were on all those drugs and it did happen.

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker: So we can't just like, what if our way back in time because it's done now.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: It's done.

Speaker: Yeah, it happened.

Speaker: There was also a huge stigma being that she was a female on death row and was going to be executed.

Speaker: I don't know if it was like a damsel in distress, I suppose.

Speaker: Maybe she was like, was she the very first woman that was ever on death row?

Speaker: I guess so.

Speaker: She was the first woman in Texas executed by lethal injection.

Speaker: We'll get there, Jennifer.

Speaker: We'll get there.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: I was just thinking, like, is that why it was such a controversy?

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I just think the idea of a woman being executed is

Speaker: is something that is not very common in the U S history, I guess.

Speaker: Um, especially recently, there's way more men on death row than there are women.

Speaker: And it just goes into the whole, like, are women, are men more, is it easier to convict a man?

Speaker: And sentence him to death.

Speaker: Then it would be a female.

Speaker: Because people like assume that women aren't strong.

Speaker: Or they have more empathy and compassion.

Speaker: Or like things that you think of a stereotypical woman.

Speaker: Like nurturing blah blah blah.

Speaker: But that's not everybody's DNA.

Speaker: And women in my opinion are much stronger than men.

Speaker: I mean I might be a little biased.

Speaker: But.

Speaker: But she also.

Speaker: completely recanted her statement on feeling sexually aroused with every blow with pickaxe onto jerry's body convenient you sound so appalled with this person right now i am there is nothing that could be said about this person that's going to change your mind ever

Speaker: I mean, not saying it's justified, but it's like that one meme that would go around.

Speaker: It's like when you hate somebody and everything they do pisses you off and you're like, look at that bitch over there eating her crackers.

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker: Look at her over there in prison.

Speaker: So Carla eventually wrote a letter to Governor Bush, who was the president after this, but...

Speaker: At the time was the governor, and she also wrote the Board of Pardons and Parole.

Speaker: I found some excerpts from that letter in an article published by the Houston Chronicle.

Speaker: So here we go.

Speaker: It says that I am in no way attempting to minimize the brutality of my crime.

Speaker: It obviously was very, very horrible, and I do take full responsibility for what happened, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker: I also know that justice and law demand my life for two innocent lives I brutally murdered that night.

Speaker: If my execution is the only thing, the final act that can fulfill the demand for restitution and justice, then I accept that.

Speaker: I will pay the price for what I did in any way our law demands.

Speaker: I was advised by my attorneys to plead not guilty and I was trusting their legal expertise.

Speaker: They knew I murdered Jerry and Deborah.

Speaker: I did not lie to them about it.

Speaker: I am in fact guilty, very guilty.

Speaker: I used to try and blame my mother because she was my role model and she fashioned and shaped me into what I was at an early age.

Speaker: At 14, she took me to a place where there was all men and wanted to school me in the art of being a call girl.

Speaker: I wanted to please my mother so much.

Speaker: I wanted her to be proud of me.

Speaker: So instead of saying no, I just tried to do what she asked.

Speaker: The thing is, deep down inside, I knew what I was doing was wrong.

Speaker: It may have been the norm for the crowd I was in, but it was not the norm for decent upstanding families.

Speaker: I no longer try to lay the blame on my mother or on society.

Speaker: I don't blame drugs either.

Speaker: When I shared that I was out of it on drugs that night, I brutally murdered two people.

Speaker: I fully realized that I made the choice to do those drugs.

Speaker: Had I not chosen to do drugs, there will be two people still alive today, but I did, did choose to do drugs and I did lose it.

Speaker: And two people are dead because of me.

Speaker: I did not plan on going over there that particular night to go into that apartment to kill anyone.

Speaker: But that is besides the point.

Speaker: The fact is we went there.

Speaker: We went into the apartment.

Speaker: We brutally murdered two precious people and we left everything.

Speaker: out of there and even bragged about what we did for over a month afterward.

Speaker: It was in October, three months after I had been locked up when a ministry came to the jail and I went to services that night, accepting Jesus into my heart.

Speaker: When I did this, the full and overwhelming weight of in reality of what I had done hit me.

Speaker: I began crying that night for the first time in many years.

Speaker: And to this day, tears are a part of my life.

Speaker: I also wanted to try and send some money out to one of my victims' family members.

Speaker: It was for Deborah's son for his schooling.

Speaker: When Ron Carlson, who was Deborah's brother,

Speaker: came to me in 1992 and told me that he had forgiven me for what I had done to his sister.

Speaker: I let him know I was trying to get some money to his nephew.

Speaker: He told me not to.

Speaker: I would only be hurting him if I did send the money to him.

Speaker: And he told me that his nephew would not receive the money from me anyway because he wanted nothing to do with me.

Speaker: I understand the pain and I did not push.

Speaker: 14 years ago, I was part of the problem.

Speaker: Now I am part of the solution.

Speaker: I have proposed to do right for the last 14 years, not because I'm in prison, but because my God demands this of me.

Speaker: I know right from wrong, and I must do right.

Speaker: I feel that if I were here still in the frame of mind, I got arrested and still acting out and fighting and hurting others and not caring or trying to do good.

Speaker: I feel sure you would consider that against me.

Speaker: I don't really understand why you can't or won't consider my change for the good in my favor.

Speaker: I don't really understand the guidelines for commutation of death sentences, but I can promise you this.

Speaker: If you commute my sentence to life, I will continue for the rest of my life in this earth to reach out to others to make positive differences in their lives.

Speaker: I see people in here in the prison where I am who are here for horrible crimes and for lesser crimes.

Speaker: who to this day are still acting out in violence and hurting others with no concern for another life or for their own life.

Speaker: I can reach out to these girls and try to help them change before they walk out of this place and hurt someone else.

Speaker: I am seeking you to commute my sentence and allow me to pay society back by helping others.

Speaker: I can't bring back the lives I took, but I can, if I'm allowed, help save lives.

Speaker: That is the only real resolution I can give.

Speaker: What bothers me about that whole thing is that she said that she is only a good person now because of her God and not just because she has learned like what she was doing was wrong.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: That just doesn't have a whole other like.

Speaker: I know.

Speaker: Issue with like religion and I don't know.

Speaker: I just.

Speaker: World.

Speaker: I feel like it's not her accepting responsibility for what she did.

Speaker: Because, I mean, she does say, hey, if this is what I have to do, then I'm going to do it.

Speaker: Like, if you, if executing me is the only way to wrong the, you know, make right the wrong I've done, then I'll take it.

Speaker: But, what do you think about keeping me alive?

Speaker: Just a little bit.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Just a little bit.

Speaker: Think about it.

Speaker: Roll it around in there.

Speaker: Get back to me.

Speaker: Let me know.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Let me help you.

Speaker: How can I help you?

Speaker: So yeah, that was it.

Speaker: So then on February 2nd, of course, all of her appeals and pleas and everything have been done.

Speaker: And then on February of 98, the night before her scheduled execution, the board of pardons and paroles decided they would not commute her sentence to life without parole.

Speaker: And they also said they will not make a recommendation to Governor Bush to do that.

Speaker: Either.

Speaker: Good.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Good.

Speaker: Fuck off, lady.

Speaker: And then Governor Bush issued a statement in regards to giving Carla her 30-day reprieve.

Speaker: And he says that when I was sworn in as governor of Texas, I took an oath of office to uphold the laws of our state, including the death penalty.

Speaker: My responsibility to ensure the laws are enforced fairly and evenly without preference or special treatment.

Speaker: Many people have contacted my office about this execution.

Speaker: I respect the strong convictions which have prompted some to call for mercy and others to emphasize the accountability and consequences.

Speaker: Like many touched by this case, I have sought guidance through prayer and I have concluded judgment about the heart and soul of an individual on death row are best left to a higher authority.

Speaker: Carla Faye Tucker has acknowledged she is guilty of a horrible crime.

Speaker: She was convicted and sentenced by a jury of her peers.

Speaker: The role of the state is to enforce our laws and to make sure all individuals are treated fairly under those laws.

Speaker: The state must make sure that each individual sentenced to death has opportunity for access to the court and through a legal review.

Speaker: The courts, including the United States Supreme Court, have reviewed the legal issues in this case, and therefore I cannot grant a 30-day stay.

Speaker: May God bless Carla Faye Tucker and may God bless her victims and their families.

Speaker: Go Bush.

Speaker: Good for him.

Speaker: I mean, he said that very well.

Speaker: Like, I understand they have to do everything they can and they have to ask for that 30 day reprieve because they have to get any amount of additional time possible.

Speaker: But I feel like.

Speaker: I mean, by saying, hey, courts are supposed to handle this is kind of in one way like not my problem.

Speaker: But then also like I have to trust the judicial system that I uphold.

Speaker: And I have to trust that these people are doing their jobs.

Speaker: She's been tried and gone through the court systems.

Speaker: I mean, we all know that the court systems are not always the most ethical.

Speaker: But I feel like in the circumstances, they were.

Speaker: So George Bush says no dice.

Speaker: See you next time.

Speaker: Carla was then executed on February 3rd of 98.

Speaker: So the very next day by lethal injection, it was reported that while the drugs were being administered, she praised Jesus Christ, licked her lips, looked at the ceiling and hummed.

Speaker: They pronounced her dead at 645 PM, only eight minutes after she received the lethal dose.

Speaker: She had,

Speaker: selected four witnesses to view her execution.

Speaker: They were her sister, Carrie, her husband, Dana Brown, which was her prison minister, and her close friend, Jackie, and then Ronald Carlson, who was Deborah Thornton's brother.

Speaker: Her name gets me every time.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And the witnesses for the murder victims were Debbie's husband, Richard, her only child, William Joseph Davis, and her stepdaughter, Katie.

Speaker: Carla's execution was also witnessed by members of the TDJC, Warden Baggett and various representatives of the media.

Speaker: So when they asked if she had any final words, they were, yes, sir, I would like to say to all of you, the Thornton family and Jerry Dean's family, that I am truly sorry.

Speaker: I hope God will give you peace with this.

Speaker: She looked at her husband, baby, I love you.

Speaker: She looked at Ronald Carlson.

Speaker: Ron, give Peggy a hug for me.

Speaker: She looked at all the present weeping and smiling.

Speaker: Everybody had been so good to me.

Speaker: I love you all very much.

Speaker: I'm going face to face with Jesus now.

Speaker: Warden Baggett, thank you so much.

Speaker: You have been so good to me.

Speaker: I love you all very much.

Speaker: I will see you when you get there.

Speaker: I will wait for you.

Speaker: And then that was it.

Speaker: She was then buried at Forest Park Lawndale Cemetery in Houston.

Speaker: Just if you need to go say hi.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: Make a trip out there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I don't understand why people say like whenever they're going to die, like especially these born again Christians are like, I'm going to go meet Jesus.

Speaker: I'll meet you in heaven or whatever.

Speaker: But like if they really took the time to read the Bible, they would know that's not actually what's going to happen.

Speaker: Like they don't, you don't immediately go to heaven whenever you pass away and you don't immediately come face to face with you.

Speaker: Like it's not your judgment day.

Speaker: That's not biblical.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: There's a lot of hypocrisy in religion.

Speaker: Correct.

Speaker: That's all I'm going to say on that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Otherwise we'll get into a long debate.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And people might not like us.

Speaker: We only have three of them, Jennifer.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But I almost forgot her last meal.

Speaker: You ready?

Speaker: It was a banana, a peach, and a salad with ranch.

Speaker: What?

Speaker: Of all things you can have.

Speaker: I definitely would not pick a salad.

Speaker: The peach, yes.

Speaker: Because peaches in the summertime are the best.

Speaker: But it was February.

Speaker: Well, yeah.

Speaker: They got it.

Speaker: It was probably canned peaches and that's not good.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: I mean, I'd probably have some ranch with my last meal too because ranch is the shit.

Speaker: Yeah, but not a salad.

Speaker: Definitely not a salad.

Speaker: I mean, maybe a salad, but like with something else too.

Speaker: With a side of pizza and ranch.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Ooh, or some buffalo wings.

Speaker: Honey barbecue.

Speaker: So throughout my research, I tried to find information about Debbie and

Speaker: Thornton's life because I don't like making these all about the criminals.

Speaker: And I searched all of our ancestry, the newspapers, Google, everywhere.

Speaker: And I couldn't even find like an obituary, nothing.

Speaker: And it's pretty disappointing that when things like this happen, there's so much more information on the criminals than there is about the victims.

Speaker: And unfortunately, when you do go to research, the victims are always tied to the articles about their murders.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Of course.

Speaker: So this is really all the info I had on her.

Speaker: I was hoping to find more about who she was in life, but that just isn't the case.

Speaker: I did read that her body was sent back to Ohio to be buried in her hometown.

Speaker: But yeah, that was really all I could find.

Speaker: I was digging forever after I finished my yearbook stuff.

Speaker: And Carla was the first woman to be executed in Texas by lethal injection and also the first woman to be executed in Texas in 135 years.

Speaker: So the last female was executed in Texas in 1863.

Speaker: So during the Civil War.

Speaker: And she was a Hispanic woman that lived close to the border of

Speaker: Texas Mexico border and her name was Chapital C-H-A-P-I-T-A-L last name Rodriguez and she was hung for allegedly robbing and murdering a traitor so like someone who trades goods not a traitor like committing treason yeah anyway

Speaker: In 1985, though, the Texas legislature passed a resolution stating that she did not receive a fair trial.

Speaker: A little late, in my opinion, but justice?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Question mark?

Speaker: Question mark?

Speaker: I guess so.

Speaker: Yeah, so that's it for Carla.

Speaker: Faye Tucker, an awful, awful story that I didn't know was going to be this awful, but I was already in.

Speaker: I was already in.

Speaker: It was happening.

Speaker: I guess you don't know until it's happening.

Speaker: I dove headfirst and there was no coming back at that point.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: That is what it is.

Speaker: But yeah, that was it.

Speaker: So we learned no heroin, no stealing.

Speaker: Don't hang out with the manitos.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Oh, no, I don't plan on doing any of those things.

Speaker: Also.

Speaker: But heroin and stealing.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: Heroin and stealing tend to lead to murder.

Speaker: No three-day benders with all of the drugs and tequila.

Speaker: Let's make better choices, people.

Speaker: No, why not?

Speaker: Let's learn from Carla Faye Tucker that you can find God without doing those awful things.

Speaker: I promise it can happen.

Speaker: Absolutely.

Speaker: If that's what you want to do.

Speaker: So freaking lately.

Speaker: So that is it for this week.

Speaker: I am hoping to get back on a weekly recording schedule, but I'll try.

Speaker: That's all I can say.

Speaker: I do my best because I'm going to be leaving out of my car for the next couple of weekends.

Speaker: So that is all.

Speaker: Make sure you follow us.

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Speaker: Am I missing any?

Speaker: Unstable Moms Podcast.

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Speaker: Unstable Moms Pod.

Speaker: You can send us an email.

Speaker: Unstable Moms Pod at gmail.com.

Speaker: You can like us on Instagram at Unstable Moms Pod.

Speaker: All of the things.

Speaker: You should do that.

Speaker: All of the things, please.

Speaker: We should.

Speaker: We need followers, exposure, exposure.

Speaker: Like I said, we're listening like a rap.

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Speaker: But give us a follow first and listen.

Speaker: So I guess that's it for tonight.

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Speaker: Bye.