Transcript
Speaker: Good evening, posers.
Speaker: I'm Sarah.
Speaker: And I'm Jen.
Speaker: Any updates for you, Jen?
Speaker: No, not really.
Speaker: So, we had a football game on Friday in San Antonio, again.
Speaker: And it was the second round of playoffs.
Speaker: And guess what?
Speaker: We're going further.
Speaker: We're going to the third round of playoffs the day after Thanksgiving in San Antonio.
Speaker: That's such a far drive for you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've been to San Antonio like 14 times in the last month.
Speaker: That's a lot of driving.
Speaker: That's a lot of miles.
Speaker: U.S. Bands was in San Antonio.
Speaker: And then the day before that was Kerrville.
Speaker: So that might as well be San Antonio.
Speaker: And then we had, oh no, the very beginning of the season, we had a scrimmage in San Antonio.
Speaker: We've had another game and another competition in San Antonio.
Speaker: We had a game this week in San Antonio and then a game this coming weekend in San Antonio.
Speaker: I might as well like buy a house there.
Speaker: Yeah, you should just take up some real estate.
Speaker: And then I can sleep instead of getting home at 2 a.m.
Speaker: Well, I dropped John and Wyatt off.
Speaker: And then I went to the high school and got there at like midnight because they were supposed to be back.
Speaker: And then at about 1220, the bus is rolling.
Speaker: And then I had to take Grace to get food because she's always hungry.
Speaker: I remember being starving after games.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, you know, it takes it out of you.
Speaker: It's a lot of energy being burned.
Speaker: So I fed her and her two friends.
Speaker: And then I took one friend home and then the other friend home who lives almost in Georgetown.
Speaker: And then I had to come all the way back home.
Speaker: So it was like 2 a.m.
Speaker: before I got to bed.
Speaker: Good thing you're off.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Newfound respect for like our parents when we were in high school.
Speaker: No kidding.
Speaker: They did that all the time too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or you once you turned 16.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm like one more marching season and then I won't have to wake up to get her to rehearsal.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So with Thanksgiving coming up, by the time you hear this, it will be here.
Speaker: What's your favorite food on Thanksgiving, Jennifer?
Speaker: The stuffing.
Speaker: The stuffing, I know.
Speaker: I texted your mom and I was like, what's the recipe for the stuffing?
Speaker: And she sent me like a laughing, crying emoji.
Speaker: And I was like, I know, stupid question.
Speaker: How do you make it?
Speaker: Because nothing we make has a recipe.
Speaker: I just need to know how, like what to put in it and then what to do with it.
Speaker: She told me and she was like, it was granny's recipe.
Speaker: And I was like, no, I know that.
Speaker: It's just delicious.
Speaker: So I made it for my in-laws and they all really liked it.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Mission accomplished.
Speaker: But now that I know how to make it, I can make it all the time.
Speaker: Yeah, I guess I need to get the recipe because I would like to have that not on Thanksgiving.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: What is your favorite?
Speaker: I like the stuffing and the mashed potatoes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, mashed potatoes with like a roll.
Speaker: I remember you and I would just sit and eat bowls of that when we were kids.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I also like the ham.
Speaker: I don't care about turkey as much.
Speaker: No, turkey's all right.
Speaker: Ham's okay.
Speaker: I like all the sides.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm a side chick.
Speaker: The sides are where it's at.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I need to make a shirt that says I'm a side chick with like pictures of all the sides on it.
Speaker: Walking with my husband.
Speaker: Yeah, that could read really bad.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So moving back to why we're all here.
Speaker: Thanksgiving.
Speaker: So I wanted to do like some, like I did on Halloween with like a Thanksgiving inspired story.
Speaker: But everything I found was like,
Speaker: Mother and children, whole family slaughtered on Thanksgiving.
Speaker: And I was like, I don't know that that's what I want to do.
Speaker: And then I was like, well, we can do some stupid criminals.
Speaker: Let's find some dumb crimes that happened on Thanksgiving.
Speaker: And every podcast under the sun has already done that.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yes, I couldn't find any just random articles about stupid criminals that weren't on a podcast website or haven't already been done.
Speaker: So I was like, well, I'm not going to do something that multiple people have done.
Speaker: So no horrendous, I mean, we're doing murder, but no like slaughtering of children and massacring of families.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No funny ones.
Speaker: So I decided we'll do some unsolved ones.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: And I found like a laundry list of unsolved ones and I was like, oh, I'll just do a little blurb on each one.
Speaker: wrong.
Speaker: I have like seven or eight pages of just two.
Speaker: This will be like a little mini episode, I guess, about Thanksgiving.
Speaker: That way I don't have to put like a huge damper on everybody's holiday and, you know, talk about.
Speaker: So we are going to start on Thanksgiving.
Speaker: Never would have guessed.
Speaker: Never would have guessed.
Speaker: So the first story that I researched, I went in chronological order.
Speaker: Like I wrote a piece of paper down for each one that I found.
Speaker: And then I only got to two.
Speaker: So I have others that I can use later.
Speaker: But anyway, the first one I researched takes us like way back in the day, like over a hundred years ago, back in the day.
Speaker: Oh, my least favorite time period.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: What's your least favorite time period?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Anything that's like,
Speaker: 1920s and back.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Well, we're in 1919, so we're good.
Speaker: No, I mean, like, even back then.
Speaker: Oh, I gotcha.
Speaker: My brain isn't working.
Speaker: I didn't have coffee today.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: No, I like the old stuff.
Speaker: I mean, you like the New Orleans pharmacy museum stuff.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I guess it depends on what it's about, too.
Speaker: Like, I can't.
Speaker: There's just certain time periods that I'm like, I just know.
Speaker: No, I think you're right.
Speaker: I think there's some things where I'm like, this one's like beating a dead horse.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But then some of it I think is pretty interesting.
Speaker: But here we go.
Speaker: You're going to hear it either way.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So here we go.
Speaker: Jump in your time machine, Jennifer.
Speaker: We're going back to 1919.
Speaker: Way over yonder in New York.
Speaker: Oh, it's far from home.
Speaker: And if you don't know what yonder means because you're not from the south, it means it's far away.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Over yonder.
Speaker: granny's to say that.
Speaker: Go in yonder and get me my glasses, my tea.
Speaker: Anyway, so now we're going to meet John Woodruff.
Speaker: And he was born in Scotia, New York.
Speaker: And in 1919, he was 32 years young.
Speaker: And he was married to a woman named Mabel.
Speaker: And I have to say, I love all of the names in this story.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Mabel.
Speaker: Mabel.
Speaker: A good old name.
Speaker: Yeah, my co-worker's daughter is Ruby Mabel.
Speaker: And I was like, why didn't I think of Mabel when I was named Grace?
Speaker: Anyway, Mabel.
Speaker: Together they had two kids.
Speaker: Their names were Ferris and Ruth.
Speaker: Cute.
Speaker: Cute.
Speaker: So I'm going to butcher this name.
Speaker: And they lived in Schenectady.
Speaker: You want me to tell you how it's spelled?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: S-C-H-E-N-E-T-A-D-Y.
Speaker: Schenectady.
Speaker: Schenectady.
Speaker: I bet that's not right, though.
Speaker: And you know that somebody's going to say, mm-mm-mm.
Speaker: Well, we'll blame it on the Google.
Speaker: So anyway, they lived in Schenectady County, New York.
Speaker: So, John worked as a realtor with J.A.
Speaker: Lindsley, but he didn't feel like that was such a good fit for him as a career path.
Speaker: He was said to be an avid outdoorsman, which led him to become a game protector, which we know today is a game warden.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, in 1919, game protectors had only been around for 39 years.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: They became a thing when the New York governor, Alonzo B. Cornell, appointed eight men to help protect the decline of the fish and game population in 1880.
Speaker: So between eight men, they were responsible for patrolling 54,566 square miles in New York state.
Speaker: That was a lot of miles.
Speaker: I mean, it sounds like a piece of cake.
Speaker: And how many of them were there?
Speaker: There was eight.
Speaker: They didn't need any more than that.
Speaker: Eight, what is eight divided by 56,000?
Speaker: That's a lot of still 7,000 square miles.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I mean, they only, they, I guess that would mean they had to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They just slept out there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But they did think that that was a little more challenging, which I think makes them a bunch of wimps.
Speaker: But anyway, they grew to 31 game protectors by 1919.
Speaker: So they're moving on up.
Speaker: And John was one of them, and he was appointed by Commissioner George D. Pratt on November 11, 1919.
Speaker: Then we move forward about three whole weeks.
Speaker: And on November 27, Thanksgiving Day, John went to work that morning to patrol the area for illegal hunting.
Speaker: And then he would come home for dinner.
Speaker: Unfortunately, John never returned home, which prompted his wife to call the police.
Speaker: Which, FYI, fun fact, police department had only been established for two years in 1917.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: In New York.
Speaker: Well, Schenectady, New York.
Speaker: But you'll never forget how to say that.
Speaker: I might.
Speaker: I probably will in, like, the next paragraph.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, we have cities like that, like Buda and Manor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Green.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And what's the other one?
Speaker: Bayard County.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel like there's one more.
Speaker: There's a lot of them in Texas.
Speaker: Waco.
Speaker: Waco.
Speaker: So local police, Scotia police, the sheriff's office, and then they even had help from the local Boy Scouts to go search.
Speaker: But there was no sign of John.
Speaker: And then during the investigation into his disappearance, Mabel mentioned that John had received some threatening letters that said things like, I'll get you.
Speaker: I'm not afraid of you.
Speaker: And his wife had discarded the letters.
Speaker: And so investigators were not able to see them for themselves.
Speaker: But then in one story I read, it said that he was like, oh, they'll never get me.
Speaker: And then he like tore them up, threw them away.
Speaker: This is going to sound morbid, but jokes on him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So John apparently had a reputation for being quite zealous in his prosecution of men caught violating the law.
Speaker: You know, doing his job.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Long story short, he was a hard ass who took his job very seriously.
Speaker: And some people just don't want to follow the rules.
Speaker: Maybe that's where they got the whole like stereotype of gay, gay wardens being like that.
Speaker: Maybe it was him.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Or people with a badge just think that they can do whatever they want.
Speaker: That is true.
Speaker: Some of them.
Speaker: Just kidding.
Speaker: I don't think all people are like that.
Speaker: Anyway, after a couple of days of searching with no signs of John, newspapers eventually stopped writing the story and the case went cold.
Speaker: So for two long years, John was nowhere to be found.
Speaker: And that all changed on April 4th of 1921.
Speaker: When a man by the name of George B. Garrett went hiking through an area that was known then as the Johnson Farm, he came upon Rotterdam Creek, which was near Nine Mile Bridge, and noticed something strange under some stones along the creek bed.
Speaker: Upon further investigation, he realized there was a body in a shallow grave partially covered with large slate stones creating a sort of tomb.
Speaker: And then I'll give a small trigger warning.
Speaker: I'm going to give a brief description of the remains.
Speaker: So if you're squeamish, maybe move ahead like 30 seconds.
Speaker: That's all it's going to take.
Speaker: Really, it really is.
Speaker: So George noticed that the top half of the skull was detached and looked as though the person had been struck in the head with an object, which was the obvious cause of death.
Speaker: The police were called and they were able to identify the remains to be that of John Woodruff.
Speaker: They were able to identify him by two gold teeth.
Speaker: So with his dental records, and they noted that his boots, gold watch, conservation commission, ID, and papers, and the holster for his 38 revolver were all intact with his remains.
Speaker: However, his revolver and his conservation badge number 68 were missing.
Speaker: John's remains were transported to the coroner, Alexander G. Baxter.
Speaker: Love these names.
Speaker: Anyway, the coroner determined that his cause of death would be the blow to the back of the head made by a quote, very powerful man.
Speaker: So just before his death, John had won a shooting contest at the Game Protectors event and he was an outdoorsman.
Speaker: So he was strong and he knew the area well.
Speaker: So investigators believe that the suspect took the opportunity to attack John while his back was turned.
Speaker: So if he is like some big burly outdoorsman that's good with a gun, chances are somebody is not going to attack him from the front.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That would be dumb.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And then he probably have some like defensive wounds and stuff.
Speaker: But I guess if his remains were two years old.
Speaker: Yeah, there probably is.
Speaker: Probably not going to see that.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: So they believed he was attacked while his back was turned.
Speaker: And then the suspect moved his body to a shallow hole and moved the large slate stones over his body to weigh it down.
Speaker: That same night, there was apparently a large snowstorm and they believe that his body was buried under a snow drift, which would definitely make it challenging to find him during the initial searches.
Speaker: I mean, it doesn't snow much here, but I know when it does, like every 10 years, I definitely don't want to leave the house much less search in the snow.
Speaker: No, absolutely not.
Speaker: So there's no way I'm going to find anything out there.
Speaker: But I imagine they were trying.
Speaker: And they're used to that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They get way more snow than we do, for sure.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: And I want to move up that way.
Speaker: Our compound that we're going to build.
Speaker: Yeah, but when it snows, I'm going to go ahead and go.
Speaker: No, we'll just stay inside with the fireplace.
Speaker: Or have two homes, one where it's warm.
Speaker: Well, yeah, but I don't want to be here in the summertime.
Speaker: I know, and then you go up there whenever it's hot.
Speaker: But I want to see the snow.
Speaker: So we'll be up there from like spring and summer and fall, and then we'll be here in the winter.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, it's real bad.
Speaker: Real bad.
Speaker: So, after identifying the remains to be John, the governor, state PD, Scotia PD, I've already forgotten how to say it.
Speaker: Schenectady County District Attorney all agreed to assign a game protector and confidential inspector by the name of Delbert Spienberg.
Speaker: That's not a good name.
Speaker: Delbert Spienberg?
Speaker: Delbert.
Speaker: What is wrong with that name?
Speaker: Delbert.
Speaker: Jennifer.
Speaker: Jennifer.
Speaker: Jennifer.
Speaker: Leave my name alone.
Speaker: I'm just kidding.
Speaker: JK.
Speaker: Anyway, Delbert.
Speaker: I don't know what's wrong with Delbert.
Speaker: It was the Jennifer of that time.
Speaker: It's like people calling you Jenny when you were little.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Delbert probably got made fun of.
Speaker: He would today.
Speaker: Anyway, he is going to be the investigator.
Speaker: So when John initially went missing, police had received a couple of leads.
Speaker: It was said that John went in search of a foreign visitor who was suspected of a game law violation.
Speaker: And then about a year after John's disappearance, a man by the name of Fred Ferdino provided a statement to police that at about 11 a.m.
Speaker: on the day of John's disappearance, he was in the waiting room of the local railway station near Nine Mile Bridge and Lock No.
Speaker: 9.
Speaker: He stated that he observed two men arguing but only heard part of the conversation.
Speaker: He said that the part of the conversation he heard was one man saying something about ferrets in illegal hunting.
Speaker: He also reported that the hunter had a shotgun and the two men walked past the waiting room heading towards the woods.
Speaker: And that before going into the tree line, the hunter retrieved his revolver and fired two shots into the air, which investigators assumed was for the man to get his dogs to come back like his hunting dogs.
Speaker: And then the two men disappeared into the woods.
Speaker: The description of the man was vague, but he was described as a foreigner with an accent.
Speaker: So a ton of information to go on.
Speaker: It could be from anywhere.
Speaker: A whole year after the fact, and it's a foreigner with an accent.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: Narrows it down.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But other witnesses had said they saw John later in the evening that same day.
Speaker: So with the conflicting reports, there wasn't much for investigators to go on.
Speaker: So then right after the discovery of John's remains, there were a couple of suspects interviewed, all of which were cleared, and they had no leads.
Speaker: And yet again, the case went cold.
Speaker: Then we're going to jump back into your time machine, Jennifer.
Speaker: And we're moving ahead.
Speaker: So we're out of the 1920s.
Speaker: And we're going to 1947.
Speaker: A little better.
Speaker: So in 1947, the state police reopened the investigation into John's murder when they received a new lead from the FBI in Buffalo, New York.
Speaker: That is so long.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: So two brothers walked into the FBI's office on February 7th of 1947 and reported that their stepfather claimed that he and an accomplice murdered a man in the woods 20-ish years prior.
Speaker: The story, though, was discounted after interviewing the man and checking the eyewitness descriptions of the man they saw with John.
Speaker: And then it later came out that the stepsons concocted the entire story because they wanted to get rid of their stepfather after an argument.
Speaker: That's so bad.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Could you imagine hating your stepdad so much that you'd like lie about him committing murder to get him to go away?
Speaker: That's so bad.
Speaker: Like there's so many other ways.
Speaker: Arsenic.
Speaker: Cyanide.
Speaker: Ricin.
Speaker: I definitely hope they got some sort of charge for that.
Speaker: They're like...
Speaker: Wasting resources, lying.
Speaker: False, not a false confession.
Speaker: What is it?
Speaker: Falsifying something.
Speaker: Who knows, though, back then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So at some point, the district attorney wanted to exhume John's remains to search for more evidence.
Speaker: But it was determined that there was not enough evidence to approve the exhumation.
Speaker: So then we're at a standstill again.
Speaker: And then we're moving right along until the early 2000s.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: It's like 80 years later.
Speaker: 53.
Speaker: 47 to 2000 is 53.
Speaker: Oh, I was talking about from whenever he actually died.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I thought you meant from the last incident.
Speaker: In the early 2000s, rumors surfaced that a man from Glenville, New York,
Speaker: told his wife that he was the person who murdered John Woodruff.
Speaker: When the story came about, the man was already deceased and they were unable to confirm that this was true.
Speaker: So then in the years after his death, John's wife received a stipend of $50 per month for her and her children, which, I mean, it was like $859.42 today.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: $50 was a lot better.
Speaker: But it was not enough to support the family.
Speaker: And according to her great granddaughter, they were, they lost their family home.
Speaker: So I couldn't find a whole lot more on his wife, but then I went into ancestry and was looking at like the census and stuff.
Speaker: And in a 1940 census, it shows her and her two children still living together.
Speaker: They were in their twenties at that point.
Speaker: And they were living in a rented home and her occupation was listed as an assembler for an electric company.
Speaker: And of course, I looked into several census records and it appears she had the same job from 1930 to about 1950.
Speaker: And I didn't see any like 1960s plus census records.
Speaker: But she passed away in March of 1970 at the age of 75.
Speaker: And she never remarried.
Speaker: That's really sad.
Speaker: It is pretty sad.
Speaker: And so as it stands now, the case is still considered cold and unsolved.
Speaker: Well, and it'll probably remain that way because whoever did it is definitely dead at this point.
Speaker: Yeah, but...
Speaker: It'd be cool if they figured it out.
Speaker: I mean, I think stuff like that, that old is super interesting.
Speaker: I guess they could do it based on like all the ancestry stuff, the DNA testing.
Speaker: The familial DNA.
Speaker: Kind of like the Golden State Killer.
Speaker: I would, that would be so cool to be able to like know how to do all that.
Speaker: It would be.
Speaker: I mean, I'm fairly good with my research, but I don't think I'm that good.
Speaker: Well, we don't have the same resources either.
Speaker: It's true.
Speaker: Because they have to like build it all from scratch and then build out.
Speaker: And then if it's like a third cousin twice removed, then they have like thousands of people to look into.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So that was it.
Speaker: That's John Woodruff.
Speaker: Good old John.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Good old John.
Speaker: It's a good name.
Speaker: A married one.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So then moving along, the next case I researched for our Thanksgiving episode is about the disappearance of Beth Lynn Barr.
Speaker: I hope this is not.
Speaker: Her name was Elizabeth.
Speaker: 1920s.
Speaker: But she went by Beth.
Speaker: No, this is in 1977.
Speaker: That's much, much better.
Speaker: Is it though?
Speaker: For me, yes.
Speaker: You're not going to say that when I tell you the story, Jennifer.
Speaker: I just mean the year.
Speaker: The time.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: There's a lot of drugs in the 70s.
Speaker: That's all right.
Speaker: To deal with drug sex and rock and roll.
Speaker: Wasn't this about the same time as Carla Faye Tucker?
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Hers was in the early 80s, I think.
Speaker: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker: 1983.
Speaker: Anyway, this is going to have another trigger warning.
Speaker: It involves the death of a child, which is always really hard to hear.
Speaker: So fair warning.
Speaker: I will be very delicate in my wording.
Speaker: Still not an easy topic to hear about.
Speaker: So if you do not want to hear about the death of a child, then it's been fun.
Speaker: But we'll see you later.
Speaker: So Beth Lynn Barr was born on December 20th of 1970 to Charles and Donna Barr.
Speaker: The family lived in Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania with her older brother, James.
Speaker: Wilkinsburg was a small borough just seven miles east of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Speaker: So in 1977, Beth attended Johnston Elementary School, which was only about a 10 minute walk from her home, which isn't far at all.
Speaker: Why at school is like a five minute walk from the house.
Speaker: And I'm no marathon runner.
Speaker: Because I'm pretty fluffy.
Speaker: But if I can walk that far in five minutes, I mean a six year old.
Speaker: Anyway, in one article, it was said that Beth typically rode home from school with her friend.
Speaker: However, on November 23rd of 1977, the day before Thanksgiving, the school released an hour early at 2.15 and her friend's mom picked her up.
Speaker: from school and she wasn't headed home which left Beth to venture on the short 10 minute walk and in another newspaper article it was said that her friend was out sick and then I saw one that said her brother was out sick I don't know either way she was walking home yes
Speaker: So either way, the people she was normally with were not there.
Speaker: She walked with another girl named Tisha and her and Tisha's sister.
Speaker: And at one point, the girls parted ways and Beth headed the opposite way that Tisha and her sister needed to go.
Speaker: So in an interview, Tisha reflected about that day and stated that, quote, we were joking and laughing and everything.
Speaker: We were talking about what we were going to do for Thanksgiving.
Speaker: We got here and she decided to go this way.
Speaker: I wish at that time we were a little bit smarter to say, hey, Beth, don't leave.
Speaker: Walk with us.
Speaker: Stick together.
Speaker: But at that time, we didn't feel we had to because we felt that our neighborhood was safe.
Speaker: On her route home, like the directions for her to get home, she would head southeast on Ardmore Boulevard, left on Marlboro Avenue, and right on Tremor Avenue, which then curved around to Princeton Boulevard where she lived.
Speaker: But that day, Beth never made it home.
Speaker: So it was a pretty quick, I even like Google mapped it and it was really a short distance.
Speaker: And then when Beth didn't make it home, her older brother went to go look around the neighborhood for her.
Speaker: And then he came upon Tisha and her sister and asked them if they had seen Beth and she had told him where they had been right before they separated.
Speaker: And Tisha stated that the police came by her house the very next day to talk to her.
Speaker: So Beth's dad was a police officer.
Speaker: So while her brother was out looking for her, the police began to get to work trying to find her.
Speaker: Police searched through the night and the search was eventually called off at 2 a.m.
Speaker: on Thanksgiving morning, only to resume again about four hours later with over 200 volunteers joining the search for the missing six-year-old.
Speaker: They also had police helicopters, police in cars, on foot, canine units, all participating in the search.
Speaker: It was like an all hands on deck kind of situation.
Speaker: I guess when your dad's a police officer, that's what happens.
Speaker: They started searching immediately.
Speaker: Well, yeah, it's a six year old kid.
Speaker: I mean, I feel like now everybody'd be searching immediately, too.
Speaker: Yeah, it just seemed like, I don't know, I guess because of the way the story is, it was like within minutes.
Speaker: I mean, it probably almost was.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, I guess if you expect your kid home in like 10 or 15 minutes and it's like 16 minutes and they're six, I'm going to be like, where are you?
Speaker: I don't even let Wyatt walk home alone and he's almost seven.
Speaker: Yeah, I wouldn't either.
Speaker: And it's like a straight shot.
Speaker: Well, you just never know.
Speaker: But I guess in the 70s, people probably didn't even think about it like that.
Speaker: I mean, I used to walk almost two miles home by myself when I was seven.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So during the investigation, an elderly neighbor told police that they had observed a man carrying a girl that matched Beth's description and took her to a dull blue sedan with red and white license plates.
Speaker: Police were steadily canvassing the neighborhood surrounding the school.
Speaker: They were knocking on doors, talking to neighbors, and they came to the home of a 24-year-old female who told police that while she was at a bus stop on Ardmore Boulevard, which is...
Speaker: like one of her first streets that she goes on to get home.
Speaker: At about 830 that morning, there was a man in a blue sedan that parked his car partially in an alleyway right next to her.
Speaker: And she was right next to his passenger door when the man muttered lewd and offensive comments to her.
Speaker: And then she threatened to call the police and she got his license plate number.
Speaker: And then the man made a U-turn and pulled out and headed toward Penn Lincoln Parkway East.
Speaker: But as we know, in 1977, cell phones had not happened yet.
Speaker: And neither was 911.
Speaker: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker: So she would have to walk to a phone and call the police.
Speaker: And she never did call and give a report on the incident.
Speaker: And she also made mention of the blue and white Ohio license plate on the car and then gave them the license plate number.
Speaker: So the woman gave a description of the man to the police stating that he appeared to be in his 40s, 5'10", to about 6' tall, with a medium build and medium length curly brown hair.
Speaker: She said he was wearing a gray suit, maybe with a tie, with square blue tinted sunglasses.
Speaker: That's a much better description than the last story.
Speaker: I mean... Foreigner with an accent.
Speaker: So the car was later found at Conley's Motor Inn off of Route 22.
Speaker: It's a motel.
Speaker: And the car was registered to a vehicle rental company.
Speaker: But when they called the rental company in Ohio, they said it had not been rented out or like there was no signature that it had been rented out in like the last two days, according to their records.
Speaker: So I'm like...
Speaker: Did they just like hand over the keys and say, here you go, have fun?
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe back then.
Speaker: Like bring it back.
Speaker: They just trusted people.
Speaker: They went from Ohio to Pennsylvania.
Speaker: I don't know how far that is.
Speaker: I'm in Texas where everything is at least a day to get to.
Speaker: It's probably.
Speaker: Anything outside of Texas, especially because we're in central Texas.
Speaker: It's got to still be a good drive.
Speaker: That's like three hours.
Speaker: Depending on where they went in Ohio.
Speaker: That's not bad.
Speaker: I mean, that's like less travel than it takes to get to Dallas.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Wouldn't it be nice to just hop in the car and be like, all right, I'm going to another state and it's just like a few hours.
Speaker: That's exactly what I told you on why I want to live in Vermont.
Speaker: I can hop on a train.
Speaker: I can be in New York.
Speaker: I can go to Massachusetts.
Speaker: That would be nice.
Speaker: So then the police searched the area and the wooded area behind the motel, but there was still no sign of Beth.
Speaker: And I had read somewhere that they had a canine unit on the property, but it didn't, like, hit on the vehicle at all.
Speaker: So it was still, like, questionable.
Speaker: Anyway, a man by the name of Wilbur Hawthorne became a person.
Speaker: It reminds me.
Speaker: Some pig, right?
Speaker: From Charlotte's Web.
Speaker: Wilbur.
Speaker: He was the most annoying pig ever.
Speaker: He was so depressed and so dramatic about everything in that cartoon.
Speaker: Drove me nuts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anyway, Wilbur Hawthorne was a person of interest, and he was considered a person of interest when they discovered that he matched the description of the suspect that was seen with Beth.
Speaker: And he was pointed out by both eyewitnesses as the man they saw driving in the adult blue sedan.
Speaker: But also, we all know how reliable eyewitnesses are.
Speaker: So reliable.
Speaker: Always get the right people.
Speaker: Yes, unless you're in...
Speaker: What was the story where they were right?
Speaker: They just like had their notepads ready to write down all the license plates that they saw.
Speaker: Yeah, that was the first lethal injection.
Speaker: Those eyewitnesses were on top of it.
Speaker: Yeah, they were.
Speaker: But then his attorney said no.
Speaker: They just saw a person.
Speaker: Could possibly be him.
Speaker: Not the person.
Speaker: So then in December of 1977, so about a month later, police arrested Hawthorne and booked him into jail on charges of kidnapping, felonious restraint and aggravated assault.
Speaker: Even though they had not found Beth for the aggravated assault.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know how they were able to justify that one.
Speaker: Hawthorne had a criminal history which included criminal solicitation to commit sodomy with a teenage girl, assault and battery of a nurse, his father and brother in 1973.
Speaker: That one he was tried for and acquitted.
Speaker: The criminal solicitation was dropped.
Speaker: So take those for what you will.
Speaker: He was never actually convicted with those.
Speaker: He was just charged and none of them came to fruition.
Speaker: He was charged for a reason.
Speaker: But still sounds like a standup guy.
Speaker: So he was also a suspect in a murder of a girl named Barbara Lewis in 1976.
Speaker: And Barbara's belongings were located on the street behind Elizabeth's house.
Speaker: So they were like, I guess, making that connection.
Speaker: But he was never convicted or named as the person.
Speaker: They never pressed charges on that one.
Speaker: I guess not.
Speaker: So, like I said, sounds like a good suspect.
Speaker: Real stand-up character.
Speaker: However, he had an established alibi and he was able to pass a polygraph test so the police had to rule him out as a suspect.
Speaker: And he was released from jail and the charges were dropped.
Speaker: Good old Wilbur.
Speaker: And there was like so many newspaper articles about that.
Speaker: Good old Wilbur.
Speaker: So 16 long months after Beth went missing in March of 1979, a man was walking his dog in a wooded area near Restland Memorial Cemetery.
Speaker: And they had a duck pond and he was walking around the pond.
Speaker: And it was off Johnston Road when he came across partially exposed skeletal remains.
Speaker: And when police arrived, they were immediately able to identify the remains to be that of Beth, since the clothing that was found with the remains matched the clothing that she had been wearing the day she vanished.
Speaker: And she was found less than seven miles from her home.
Speaker: It was like 6.7 miles from her house.
Speaker: So sad.
Speaker: So the coroner used dental records to definitively confirm that the remains were in fact that of Beth.
Speaker: And due to the decomposition of the remains, the coroner was able to determine that Beth had been deceased, most likely since the day she went missing.
Speaker: So they weren't like...
Speaker: holding her anywhere.
Speaker: They also determined that her cause of death was multiple stab wounds to the chest, and they were unable to determine if there was any sexual assault due to the condition of her remains.
Speaker: So then...
Speaker: There wasn't a whole lot of movement on the case, if any at all.
Speaker: And then we get into 1980, where I read an article in the Pittsburgh Press, and they suggested that Beth may have been the victim of a man who sexually assaulted multiple children, all within about a four-mile radius of the area where they lived.
Speaker: The article said anywhere from six to ten children, ranging from ages six to twelve.
Speaker: had been assaulted and released from 1974 to 1977.
Speaker: All of the cases had similarities that led investigators to believe that there was one person responsible for these crimes.
Speaker: Some of those similarities were things like the description of the suspect,
Speaker: an area where the crimes were taking place in a description of the light blue vehicle.
Speaker: They were led to believe that it's a possibility that Beth was sexually assaulted, even though they had no concrete evidence.
Speaker: They were just assuming or I guess seeing what stuck.
Speaker: They speculated that Beth was possibly his last victim since she was the only child to end up deceased.
Speaker: They were thinking that maybe he escalated and then was like, oh shit, I should probably stop.
Speaker: Went too far.
Speaker: It was literally my next sentence.
Speaker: That meant the suspect took it too far and stopped after Beth was killed.
Speaker: They thought that or that the assailant moved or maybe he was incarcerated or that he is deceased.
Speaker: But it was just a theory.
Speaker: There was no like actual person that they had.
Speaker: connected to these other crimes.
Speaker: They were just saying like these other crimes happened and they are all in a similar area.
Speaker: We're not sure if her case mimics that, but it's possible because she's in the area and she's the right age.
Speaker: So they were like, maybe it's one person doing all of this, but then it suddenly stopped.
Speaker: So I think they were just trying to come up with theories, I guess.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: So then in another news article, there was another man listed as the prime suspect, but the police didn't have enough evidence to press any charges.
Speaker: And when I looked into the person the police had labeled as the prime suspect, it sent me down a huge rabbit hole.
Speaker: And that's all I have to say about that because I need like a whole other episode or two or three to go like deep dive into this person.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Stay tuned.
Speaker: I'm not even going to tell you his name because I don't want you to look it up.
Speaker: Don't look up anything about Elizabeth Barr.
Speaker: I mean, you can.
Speaker: I had to like dig for this information.
Speaker: And then I was, of course, looking around and I kind of look at everything.
Speaker: I was on Reddit, which I kind of take with a grain of salt.
Speaker: And then if there is something on Reddit, I try and go and like confirm the information.
Speaker: There were like a pastor that people were saying was involved where he was...
Speaker: you know, sexually assaulting children, and he was eventually asked to leave the church and things like that, which I couldn't find any record of.
Speaker: There were several different people that someone had listed in a Reddit article about it, but I wasn't able to, like, confirm any of it.
Speaker: So there's all kinds of theories going around.
Speaker: And since then, there hasn't been any more movement on the case.
Speaker: And that is until February of 2021.
Speaker: Police had received an anonymous letter.
Speaker: And I have a couple of quotes from the letter.
Speaker: But for obvious reasons, I don't have the whole thing.
Speaker: So here we go.
Speaker: Part of the letter said that in 1977, I was one of many who went to search for this beautiful, innocent little girl.
Speaker: The case has affected me my entire adult life.
Speaker: I am wondering and have been if someone is deceased yet worked as a police officer and
Speaker: If perhaps their fingerprints or DNA could possibly help solve this horrendous heartbreaking case so that Beth's soul slash spirit and Charlie and Donna could finally have closure.
Speaker: I feel so terrible at even writing and sending this to you.
Speaker: I am not ending this by signing my name.
Speaker: I will come forward if this is ever proven.
Speaker: I vowed years ago that I will not stop when it comes to Beth Lynn Barr.
Speaker: And after seeing Donna Barr on the news last night, I knew I had to reach out to you.
Speaker: Please take me seriously.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: God bless and stay safe.
Speaker: So those were like a couple of excerpts that I put all together from the letter.
Speaker: And Donna Barr has done interviews periodically to kind of keep things alive and like keep people reminding that there's this case is still open.
Speaker: So in 20, the end of 2020, she's
Speaker: around the anniversary she had done an interview.
Speaker: And then this letter was sent a couple of weeks later at the beginning of 2021.
Speaker: So Bobby Payne, who is now the Edgewood police chief,
Speaker: reviewed the letter.
Speaker: And when Beth originally went missing, he was the investigator on the case.
Speaker: And the letter accused a former police officer of being responsible for the disappearance of Beth.
Speaker: Obviously they didn't put that in there.
Speaker: And I couldn't find the name of the officer or anything.
Speaker: The officer in question had already passed away and both Bobby and Beth's parents knew the officer and Beth's mother said she was shocked to see his name mentioned in the letter.
Speaker: The officer in question was never a suspect in question, and the letter did not provide any concrete evidence.
Speaker: That should be looked into.
Speaker: And then police chief Payne said that the author of the letter went off on several tangents and showed no real proof that the officer was involved.
Speaker: He also stated in an interview with channel 11 news out of Pittsburgh that he did not see any value in the letter since the author refuses to name themselves and will not sit face to face with investigators to be interviewed or interrogated.
Speaker: So to me, it just sounds like they're brushing it off, but yeah,
Speaker: Did they not like look into it?
Speaker: At least?
Speaker: DNA?
Speaker: Fingerprints?
Speaker: At least pull some fingerprints.
Speaker: So I just think that maybe they should have or maybe they did look into it farther.
Speaker: But of course, it's still an open case.
Speaker: So they're holding some things close to the chest.
Speaker: And that was the last update we had on the case.
Speaker: I just wish there was more that came out of the letter.
Speaker: I know touch DNA is a thing.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It just felt like it was more like...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Oh, well, let's move on.
Speaker: We don't think it's real.
Speaker: Hopefully sometime soon we'll have an update on this case and I can give info on who it was.
Speaker: Something actually could come of it.
Speaker: Well, they're probably already deceased, I would think.
Speaker: But they could be like.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Potentially.
Speaker: Could be.
Speaker: Watch it be like the Golden State Killer.
Speaker: And he's like old and pretends to be decrepit.
Speaker: And then you see him working out in his jail cell.
Speaker: And then wheeled in on a wheelchair.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Into court.
Speaker: Gotta play the part.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I know you got to play it up, but all the time, not just in court.
Speaker: Just a little advice if you're ever on trial for something awful that you really did do.
Speaker: So that's it for this week's Thanksgiving inspired mini episode.
Speaker: I mean, I don't think this will give anybody the warm and fuzzies on their Thanksgiving holiday.
Speaker: Probably won't give anybody anything to be thankful for.
Speaker: I mean, it's true, Karim.
Speaker: I'm not sure that much will give you warm and fuzzies anytime.
Speaker: Unless it is the conviction.
Speaker: Unless it's hearing about the end.
Speaker: So, happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker: Eat some good food.
Speaker: Get you one of those tryptophan naps in.
Speaker: Sure I will.
Speaker: Calories don't count this week.
Speaker: It's the only week.
Speaker: And that's it.
Speaker: We'll see you guys next time.
Speaker: Have a happy holiday.
Speaker: Bye.
