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How climate change will change what we eat
61 Plays3 months ago
With the hosts back from vacation, Anthony, Alina, Mike, and Karthik discuss an issue that's increasingly pressing - the impacts of climate change on the food system. Consumers want food that's local, sustainable, and guilt free, but these desires mesh poorly with the reality of the industrial food system that we have today. Can technology overcome these contradictions?
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:11
Speaker
Uh, hello and welcome to Innovation Matters. My name is Anthony Skiavo. I'm a senior director and a principal analyst here at Lux Research. And people are back from vacation. We've got a full crew. We've been doing a lot of two person podcasts over the last couple of weeks, but, um, we've got Alina, Karthik Subramanian, and Mike Holman all with me here virtually in the Innovation Matters studio.
Plastic Recycling & Fame
00:00:36
Speaker
And yeah, i'm I'm delighted to announce that I'm now extremely famous.
00:00:43
Speaker
well What I referred to, of course, is that I actually just an hour after we are going to be recording this, I'm going to be on NPR. NPR is on point, which is pretty cool. I got invited to talk about plastic recycling. So a lot of the points that we were talking about in our episode a couple of weeks ago on plastic recycling, actually, I ended up just talking about with the host of, on point, Magna Chuck Robardi, which was which was really sick. Nice. So yeah, so now i'm i'm leaving I'm leaving this little world of Innovation Matters podcast behind and I move on to be a full time, you know, full time
00:01:30
Speaker
radio personality DJ type situation. ah ah You're the new, the new Terry Grosser. Yeah, aogla za exactly. Exactly. Maybe Steve Jobs. What? Maybe Steve Jobs. Maybe not Steve Jobs yet, but, but soon, undeniable soon. Hope you'll still remember us.
00:01:58
Speaker
Oh, yeah. We'll see. ah No, no, um no promises, frankly. Don't get our hopes too high. Yeah, yeah. It is the Independence Day in India. So and and you're literally getting independent from this podcast. That's a bad joke, I think. But ah you know, it's a bad joke. But is it is a really bad joke? I don't know. I think it's kind of true. Um,
00:02:26
Speaker
No, it
Weather Woes in Amsterdam
00:02:27
Speaker
was great. It was really cool. I'm really interested, actually, a little behind the curtains. I really want to see what they do like from a production standpoint because I was like actually in like a real production studio. They had like an engineer there. they a full I went downtown to WBURs. This is already recorded at the time of us recording this.
00:02:49
Speaker
um so You know, I was it's really interesting to see like what they are going to do just from the perspective of like sound engineering and, you know, kind of like actually viewing a a real professional situation. I'm hoping I can like learn something for our little our little Homebrew podcast that we have going on here. Yeah, that's other than that. um How how is everyone doing?
00:03:20
Speaker
Nice. I think Karthik is experiencing some serious warming. yeah Local warming, local global warming trickling into his apartment at high intensity. It's a good thing this is ah an audio medium right and not a visual medium because I think we don't see Karthik sweating. Indeed. Yeah. Never been so nervous before a podcast recording. But yeah, it's too hot, too humid out here. um Recently bought a fan for the first time in five years. What is the weather in Amsterdam right now? I think it's about 25 degrees, very humid. Okay. So as ah as a person of the the Indian subcontinent, 25 degrees and humid.
00:04:10
Speaker
This seems like weak sauce. Are you not, you know, i like, like, are you going to be laughed at back home for for calling this hot and humid weather? Totally. I already am being called that. So um tell that's that's tough because not only are you suffering through it, you're also not getting any type of respect or not no commiseration from the squad at all. Nope. Nope.
00:04:40
Speaker
is It's not having it. Yeah, that's what's been happening for the last four days. The Subramanian family group chat is just roasting you right now. But the issue is that Dutch houses in general are designed to retain heat because the Netherlands is a very cold country. So even if it's like 25 degrees outside your house tends to be two and a half, three degrees warmer, even with like the windows open. And I think it's been very quiet in terms of wind, at least today it is. So, you know, not enough ventilation So, uh, yeah, but for the first time ever in my life, since I moved to the Netherlands, I bought a fan. So that's an achievement. I think in itself for global warming, not for me, but for global warming, the carbon emitters of the world. Correct.
00:05:29
Speaker
ah my god Is it just like one of those like personal handheld like USB fans? No, I actually got the ventilator tower from Honeywell, the large one. oh Oh, I have that one. I have that in each room. Yeah, so I just got one just next to my bed. Yeah, it's a good one i use it as well. So is it running right now?
00:05:50
Speaker
No, it's not actually. I just
Global Warming & Food Industry
00:05:52
Speaker
got the box right before the recording. Okay, that's good. Because you can't run it during the podcast. I'm going to be real with you. It might be a background. So you're stuck with some very hot and sweaty podcasting. I think unfortunately, I actually have thematic also for what we're going to talk about today. So yeah, yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
Well, with with Anthony abandoning us for for NPR, maybe Karthik can branch out into YouTube you know fan unboxing videos. Yeah, play with the podcast to cricket content and yeah fan unboxing. My way of getting extremely famous. I mean, honestly, that's probably a better path to fame than whatever the heck i it is I'm going to be doing. So it's ah you're not wrong. You're not wrong, but I'd say.
00:06:39
Speaker
But um yeah, that's actually the subject of of what we want to talk about today. We're not just shooting the breeze or the lack of breeze as there is in the Netherlands. Global warming is and real, unfortunately. I think that's the official position of this podcast. And it's having impacts. And Alina, you had um you know you really wanted to be doing this. You put a lot of effort into, and into I would say,
00:07:09
Speaker
bringing a consumer perspective and and bringing an anthropological perspective to this this issue. So why don't you sort of kick us off? I know you've got a lot of research to share. Sure. um Yeah, it's an exciting topic and also a terrifying topic because it seems that every year we're actually breaking records when it comes to how hot it gets. And it's not just that it's uncomfortable. It's it it's it's directly impacting our food supply. And that's what I want to talk about today. ah how How do we adapt to an increasingly changing climate?
00:07:48
Speaker
And how how does this affect the way we eat? And what I want to talk about, just to set the scene, um there's there's a few issues that we see, not just with global warming, but also how the industry is adapting. And then I want to go into how consumers are responding to that.
00:08:08
Speaker
So we see that global warming is disrupting both our food and our water resources. And as a result, we're seeing a shift into what food companies are offering. And quite carefully,
00:08:27
Speaker
so to say, we're seeing that fresh food is becoming harder to come by and when it's available it spools much faster during to the heat and the companies have adopted ah many companies have adapted to that they started to ramp up their marketing for ultra processed foods for sugary drinks, for canned goods, because they're more resilient to changes. And we're even seeing some strategies in response to these challenges. We saw McDonald's in the Netherlands giving out free McFlurry vouchers during heatwaves.
00:09:05
Speaker
um We saw in Brazil after the recent flood um in Rio Grande do Sur, the aid that people received consisted largely of processed foods like cookies and chips.
00:09:19
Speaker
so This is a stark reminder of not just how um global warming is affecting our diets, but also how we're best to survive in an increasingly unpredictable climate and how many companies are are trying to capitalize on all these changes.
00:09:39
Speaker
Now, having said that, it's not all negative. you know It's not all doom and gloom. Some companies are truly rethinking their offering. um And we're seeing brands like Cadence, who are promoting zero-calorie drinks infused with electrolytes, with minerals for prolonged hydration, we saw.
00:10:01
Speaker
um In the US, we saw products like liquid IV surging in popularity, and they actually quadrupled their sales in the last four years by by creating a market for hydration enhancers. We're also seeing innovation in the types of ingredients that companies are using, for example,
00:10:21
Speaker
um cell-based ingredients like cocomodo cocoa are promoted as climate-friendly and slave-free products aiming to withstand supply chain shocks and future deforestation issues.
00:10:42
Speaker
In Florida, as c citrus farmers have been like severely affected by the drought and the storms, sort of so they're switching to crops like pongamia, which is originally from India. So, Karthik, you might be more familiar with it, but it's a climate-resistant plant that produces high-quality protein and oil. And this this is more able to survive in harsh in increasingly harsh climates. We're also seeing companies, big companies like Walmart, who are adapting their supply chains and trying to minimize disruptions. So Walmart, for example, has launched a pilot project with Israeli crop supply intelligence Agritask. And um the point is to anticipate produce availability better. right So we're seeing all this um
00:11:41
Speaker
We're seeing companies trying to adapt to an increasingly heating planet and also in trying to deal with unpredictable events, trying to give some sort of stailize stabilize the situation for consumers.
Consumer Values & Food Choices
00:11:58
Speaker
And of course, this is affecting how consumers are responding because it's not, and we're seeing that it's not a unified response. it's not the ah Consumers are not aligned honour on any of these. If I may ask, ah from the consumer perspective, um you know we have been discussing in previous episodes about how ah you know nutritionally as well, we have become more aware or conscious as consumers. We are trying to mix different, you know we are trying to increase protein intake, fiber intake. um Have you seen these companies that are making these shifts to ultra-processed food also catered to that trend um in terms of ensuring that your food is nutritionally still good enough of high value to the consumer who wants to make that switch while also addressing the supply chain challenges due to global warming?
00:12:46
Speaker
ah Yes, in fact, this is one of the topics that Anthony and I, one of the trends that we discussed in our webinar, we're seeing increased interest in where we're seeing consumers indulge in foods that also give them a health alibi or like foods that are packed with extra nutrients that give them a sense of permission to indulge in foods that otherwise ah would would make them feel guilty. Yes, and I can talk more about this, but before before I do that, I want to break down like the different perspectives that consumers have on um on this on global warming, and then it's going to become more clear
00:13:28
Speaker
on how companies can capitalize on health forward products that can appeal to a broader base of consumers. so Essentially, the way global warming affects how consumers see depends on on the values that consumers have. And these values can be very different from one person to the next. And we've done extensive research on this ah at Predictable Anthropology. So we're seeing that on one side, there are consumers who who who value personal comfort and they value routine when it comes to their food choices.
00:14:08
Speaker
and they tend to be all about affordability, tradition, and they want to keep things simple. there They stick to what they know best, and we often see them reach out for prepackaged, ready-to-eat meals or easy options like burgers, mac and cheese, barbecue. We can think of these consumers as comfort creatures who, during tough times, like food shortages or problems with the supply chains,
00:14:34
Speaker
they don't want to take risks. They want the solid, familiar meals that makes them feel happy, makes them feel safe, fools, meals that bring them comfort. So they're most likely the ones lining up for free McFlurry vouchers during heatwaves in and the Netherlands. And unfortunately, they're also the most vulnerable to marketing campaign that campaigns that from promote ultra-processed foods, ah sugary drinks. During COVID, it as a matter of fact, we saw this consumers stockpiling on everything, including products that they haven't tried before, and they did so because it was on sale. So in times of adversity, they tend to give in to their emotions. They tend to eat much more than usual, and foods that are not particularly healthy for them. On the other hand,
00:15:27
Speaker
We're seeing consumers who see rising temperatures as a call for action. So for them, food is more than just eating. It's it's primarily about environmental and social responsibility. The lower the impact on the planet and on people, the higher the value of the food. And we can think of these consumers as conscious or as activists who care very deeply about things like reducing waste, supporting local farms, choosing organic, ethically produced foods, minimally processed foods. They're also embracing plant-based diet. um For them, vegan raw foods are better for the environment and also for social equity. They're very excited about technological advancements like lab-grown meat and insect proteins.
00:16:23
Speaker
which they believe can help fight climate change while securing our food future. So they're the ones excited about cocoa alternatives, right? Because they mitigate the risk of deforestation and as well as the exploitation of local farmers. And it's not as local farmers in developing countries that they care about. They also care about people living in in food deserts in the US. And it's usually marginalized communities that are disproportionately affected by climate change.
00:16:53
Speaker
So they want governmental intervention. They want some sort of safety net or access to foods that want the government to do their part, but they also support local initiatives. And we're seeing interest growing in black urban growers, which are turning urban lots into gardens and farms to boost security and give people more control over their food supply.
00:17:19
Speaker
And of course, in between this, there's the health focused consumers. This health forward, ah sorry, health focused consumers, they see food as medicine. They value food insofar as it helps them live longer, healthier lives.
00:17:36
Speaker
And these consumers are very, very deliberate about their choices. They focus on foods that prevent disease, like those that support gut, heart health, which is ah poised to increase with climate, with with global warming. They avoid inflammatory foods like sugar and processed meats. And instead, they reach for fermented foods, probiotics, fiber-rich options. They look for super foods.
00:18:04
Speaker
enhanced or fortified foods that are packed with nutrients. And they also pay close attention to the combination of macros and micros for best absorption. And these are the consumers who are very, very big on hydration, especially as the weather gets hotter. They're they're the first ones to grab drinks with electrolytes and minerals ah to keep them going.
Food System Challenges
00:18:28
Speaker
So whether they're driven by comfort, by activism, or by health, what consumers are doing is that they're responding to global warming in ways that reflect their core values. And this is what businesses have to take note. So I guess there's there's a lot of interesting things that we can unpack within that. One thing I guess I'm curious about, where do you see, like when we think about innovators, right?
00:18:59
Speaker
The, I think resilience is a good example. You talked about how consumers are interested in urban farming and like these local, like very local forms of production. But I think it's very difficult and like, you know, when when you examine the food system overall, those types of farms are extremely inefficient, right? They're not producing a lot of food. You know, that's not really, you know, I think if you ask someone in the food system, like our clients, they would say, well, the way that we need to make the food system secure is through transgenic crops. It's through making sure that the large scale industrial farming systems that produce the overwhelming majority of the food that we need today are more effective, right? are Are producing a higher level of food, are increasing their yields. And, you know, frankly, those people are probably right. That is where the majority, the overwhelming majority are of our food comes from and where, you know,
00:19:56
Speaker
the the biggest, also the biggest threat to disruption is. So I guess, how do you see these mismatches between consumer perception and the things they're doing, and you know, at a small scale, and then the need to improve kind of the system at a large scale, right?
00:20:16
Speaker
ah like One thing we see in recycling is that there's all these individual actions that people take and like none of them matter. um like If you sort your recycling really well in America, it just doesn't matter like versus yeah not sorting your recycling that well. so like And people get upset, you know they get mad. right And they're like, oh, like I'm doing my part and the system is not working. So have you seen that kind of anger, that kind of frustration with the system? And how do you sort to reconcile, how do you think about these differences between
00:20:47
Speaker
the things that people want to do to sort of improve or like their day to day versus the needs of the system overall. So um in theory, we're seeing consumers, consumer chatter about big agri. So in theory, big agri but also um ah scale ah production at scale can or is promoted as reducing hunger throughout the world and about
00:21:17
Speaker
giving us a safety net in terms of calamity, so to say. However, consumers are increasingly skeptical ah to the fact that bigger production is going to solve the problem, and that's because they think that Production is not really the problem. The problem is the distribution system. we We did a lot of research in India, for example, where we saw that, I actually don't remember the numbers, but the vast majority of produce is being lost in um storage and transportation. And that's actually also contributing to CO2 emissions.
00:21:57
Speaker
so The problem is the infrastructure, the distribution, the supply chain. So because of that, we're seeing, and and this is more with consumers who are um activists or who are very, very deeply committed to environmental justice.
00:22:16
Speaker
So, for them, we're seeing an increase in interest in self-sufficiency and subsistence farming or different forms of subsistence farmers. And this is also ah happening in ah In the US, in Canada, in Germany, we see a small plots adjacent to houses or on the roofs of buildings that that are that are mitigating the issues with the supply chain, right is ah local production. so This is where the the discussion is coming. Basically, consumers are dissatisfied with with this with the infrastructure, the food infrastructure.
00:23:01
Speaker
So producing more to them is not going to solve the problem. So ah I was maybe thinking about this, and this is because you mentioned India. um um Just in developed economies in general, right we do have issues with ah you know storage, transportation in India, for example, you lose a lot of produce there. But even in these developing economies, you don't have a lot of people with a lot of money to make choices.
00:23:26
Speaker
So if you look at the majority, the middle class, you know the objective is survival. What I get to eat right now, I get to eat right now. It's about the next meal and the next meal and the next meal. And so um to solve this issue, maybe from the middle class consumer perspective, right it it feels like there are roadblocks in every solution path you want to take. So if you want to fix you know production, it's not very easy. If you want to fix logistics, it's not very easy. You want to change consumer diet habits.
00:23:54
Speaker
to avoid those challenges, but even that's not easy because you don't have the affordability to go around and make those changes. So what are companies doing in these developing economies to change that or or what are consumers doing to change that? Because for example, with something like stockpiling during COVID, I don't think a middle class person in a developing economy will be able to stockpile for a long duration because they just don't, you know, they they don't have the power to purchase that much food.
00:24:23
Speaker
So what are those trends over there? Or am I maybe overthinking too much? So one of the things that consumers are turning on, so aside from of trying to be more self-sufficient, is goods with a longer shelf life. So we're seeing canned goods. We're seeing heavily processed foods, actually. And this is this is the base of the consumers, let's say, who are more in the survival mode, right? this is the Not necessarily the comfort creatures that I talked about, but somewhere is like the busy the busy family, the busy parents who is like, who are main priorities putting food on the table for their kids, right? And who don't have really the time to to grow their own or the space to grow their own food. And they also have to make quick decisions when they go to the supermarket and to buy what's best for for their family's health and also for their budget.
00:25:22
Speaker
So they would definitely be drawn to to produce that has a longer shelf life, to also to produce that, so in tone with the global heating, that is so require is more energy efficient.
Innovation & Climate Adaptation
00:25:39
Speaker
So things that don't require a lot of cooking are easy to prep, ready to eat meals, and also price is ah is a big factor that they're considering.
00:25:51
Speaker
why can innovators you know do about this? We talked about these needs, making products that fit this type of this type of consumer. that's What about like a little bit longer term? you know When you think about big picture innovations, whether it's crops or what have you, like like what's what's the long term type of opportunity for innovation here?
00:26:20
Speaker
you know um emerging from this these types of needs. Yeah. i I believe that one opportunity is to focus more on those middle consumers, the the health forward consumers for whom ah food food is more than just basic nutrition. So think anti-inflammatory properties, immune support, hydration that lasts. And why is this important? Well, it's because
00:26:53
Speaker
ah First, there's a growing crowd of consumers who are really worried about how the heat is affecting their health and their day-to-day life. And this is why we see products like liquid IV surging in popularity um and creating their own market for hydration enhancers.
00:27:12
Speaker
But it's not just about catering to this health-conscious consumer. It's also that by doing this, this trends can actually appeal to to the other consumers as well. So as I mentioned earlier, for those who love comfort food,
00:27:29
Speaker
Offering healthier options with added nutrients can make them feel better about indulging. It makes them feel like they're getting the best of both worlds. They get comfort without the associated guilt. But also for those who are more socially and environmentally conscious,
00:27:48
Speaker
Healthy food isn't just that it's good for them. It's also seen as a good for the community and for the planet. so And also when you throw in the tech savvy, the eco-friendly innovations like cell-based meats, seafood alternatives that we talk about in in the other podcast, you're hitting all the right notes. It's better nutrition and and a smaller carbon footprint.
00:28:13
Speaker
focusing on the health benefits could leverage a wider base of consumers, not just the hena the health nut. I wonder if, you know, also just kind of speaking about ah other aspects beyond the the the food and beverage products stood directly of of sort of climate adaptation, there was actually a really interesting study in Nature last week ah that was looking at heat related deaths in Europe.
00:28:42
Speaker
They estimated something like their 50,000 last summer, 2023, which was was a very very hot summer and in Europe, you know particularly southern Europe. um But they estimated that that that number was um you know could have been almost twice as high without some of the climate adaptation measures that have have already been taken. and And some of this is you know infrastructure stuff, more green spaces. and and ah more adoption of air conditioning and things like that. But a lot of it was just sort of behavioral, like ah providing warnings to people about upcoming weather events, encouraging them to to stay indoors, handing out bottled water, you know particularly to elderly or other people who might be be particularly vulnerable. um But obviously, those you know those challenges aren't going away. They're only going to get worse. And and they already are worse in places like India, as we were discussing.
00:29:36
Speaker
um you know So are there other types of of solutions or things that we could you know we could be that companies could be using and developing to try to help address?
00:29:47
Speaker
these sort of issues, I think is, you know, I mean, for instance, to mention the elderly is a vulnerable population. We've, you know, some of our colleagues have done some really interesting work on the different ways that digital health technologies could be used for those for those populations and incorporating, you know, heat warnings or additional monitoring during during high heat events could definitely be a, um you know, an enhancement or building off some of those existing platforms as a way to take kind of and deal deal with that.
00:30:18
Speaker
new and increased risk from from climate events that that that that population might might be dealing with. So um you know those are kind of some of the things that I'm i'm thinking about. and And I don't know if there's there's other stuff that you've talked about with clients, Alina, or seen that you know that goes towards um helping maybe especially some of those vulnerable populations change behaviors or deal in other ways with with some of these climate challenges.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff when we look at like building design and like building management, right? You mentioned like putting air conditioning in a lot more buildings, just as like a baseline thing that we can do. And that's true, of course, but that has a cost, right? That has ah a significant cost in terms of ah energy, carbon emissions, right? Building management, building energy is this big source of carbon emissions. So both from a building management perspective, so how do we like actually run the building such that we don't have to spend as much energy on these types of things. And then also from a materials innovation, there's a lot of really interesting companies who are you know doing work on issues like metal organic frameworks, for example, for HVAC systems where you can
00:31:45
Speaker
actually suck a lot of the water out of the HVAC system before you have to cool that air down, right? Because cooling the water is really energy intensive. There's a lot of water in air. Like, if you're in Amsterdam and it's really hot and humid, um you know, if you actually suck that water out before you cool, you're saving a lot of energy, right? um So, like, there are a lot of technologies, I would say, that are really going to be impactful for this type of this type of thing.
00:32:13
Speaker
But I think it it's going to be on the consumer side, it's going to be more on the ah consumer behaviors, whereas the technologies are going to be a lot more of like maybe some of the hard science technologies right relative to some other areas. I don't know if consumer products are necessarily like the the right frame for this. i mean yeah um I think there's going to be roles for for for different aspects of it. i mean You know, somebody like I said, some of the digital health personal devices could be you know provide early warnings and and guidance for people. you know There definitely could be some of these hydration projects and things. But I think, yeah, you're you're going to need those sort of more infrastructural type of solutions as well. And a lot of places those will you know sort of have the bigger impact.
Conservation & Green Retrofitting
00:33:06
Speaker
I mean, the other thing I think about too is, and this is you know could get us into a whole other episode, but you know climate adaptation, yeah then you start thinking. I mean, we talked about the ways that agriculture might need to be changed to to to produce enough continue to produce enough ah food in ah in ah in a warmer world. Anthony you referenced like transgenic crops, and and and there's a lot of innovations related to that that are um you know that our our colleagues and the Ag food team cover. But um you know so you've also talked about we've talked about how you know chemicals production might need to adapt in ah in a um you know due to climate change. you You have a lot of existing production sites that are heavily concentrated in coastal areas that could be more vulnerable to hurricanes like the US Gulf Coast or or other
00:33:55
Speaker
other sort of extreme weather events and that's going to be one of the things that eventually drives the the industry towards um you know perhaps more distributed production, different types of production platforms and models even ah besides these these very large centralized facilities.
00:34:10
Speaker
that you know that that's and and ah you know for for some of the other inputs to these products and food systems, you know the plastics, the packaging and things like that, the way that we produce that stuff and in addition to the way that we produce the might need to change in addition to the way that you know producing the food itself, food ingredients itself will have to change too. Maybe I think product conservation, innovation method methods, for example, during the summer, of you know I think if you look at all the energy drink sales, they must have gone up because you know everyone wants electrolyte water or just packaged water and things like that. But there's a water shortage in the summer. So how do you plan for such things? I think just normal conservation is very important, but also just ensuring that product conservation for long lasting products. I think that would be the short term goal, I believe. I think that's where we should start off first.
00:35:07
Speaker
because I think from a consumer, and maybe I'm speaking for myself here, changing consumption patterns and things like that is very, very tough, you know? Because we are so used to some things and it's very hard to change how we eat, unless we are like pushed to the corner and there's no other way out. So I think that's- Yeah, the historic- Room for innovation has to start, yeah. It's been very challenging. And also we're seeing discussion, I was thinking, on green building materials,
00:35:37
Speaker
but So for consumers, it's not just so they're interested in energy saving skyscrapers, but also in their homes.
00:35:49
Speaker
um They're looking for natural finishes, paint that is non-toxic, that is made with like greener ingredients. ah They're also prioritizing renewable materials. I remember that there was some conversation about aluminum and steel studs um being able to reduce weight because ah waste.
00:36:10
Speaker
because they're engineered to fit exactly in their intended location rather than b and can be also recycled if they're ever demolished. Of course, there's a lot of discussion on improving efficiency at home from light bulbs to appliances that are more eco-friendly. Green building materials is something that is increasingly on their mind. Any challenges with retrofits?
00:36:36
Speaker
From the consumer perspective because typically what we hear when we talk to innovators for example ah Before the recording we were talking about geothermal heat pumps ground source heat pumps And a lot of developers say it's very difficult to you know ah you know install a centralized ah you know cooling or heating system in a house that's not designed for that because I'll have to break open you know and create false ceilings, a lot of extra you know materials to be added, which is not part of the system but necessary for the system to work. So are you seeing any kind of negative consumer sentiment there when it comes to green minting materials and retrofits?
00:37:12
Speaker
It's at this point is just experimenting like there's not a broad based ah of consumers who are building their homes or they're trying to retrofitting. And there is a lot of give and take and a lot of adaptability on the go and finding the best
Conclusion & Future Topics
00:37:29
Speaker
solutions. And of course, it doesn't always result in the best environmentally friendly solutions. But what's important is that there is interest growing into that direction.
00:37:41
Speaker
I mean, it's it's tough because it's one of those things where it's not like there's a bunch of really good solutions that we just have to figure out how to implement, right? It's like, ah yeah, it's just going to be really problematic, kind of almost no matter what we do, right? So it's just really a question about finding the the best of a bad situation, right? um Yeah. And adapting, learning on the go, basically.
00:38:10
Speaker
Maybe Trump's Project 2025 is the answer. Thank you for listening to the Innovation Matters podcast. If you like this podcast, you can like and subscribe. We are not going to do any Project 2025 discourse yet. i think that is I think that is safe to say. So please check us out. We'd love to hear from you. And yeah, we will see you, I think, on the next episode.
00:38:38
Speaker
Innovation Matters is a production of Lux Research, the leading sustainable innovation research and advisory firm. You can follow this podcast on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want more, check out www.luxresearchinc dot.com slash blog for all of the latest news, opinions, and articles. so