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Innovation Matter's end of summer news roundup
59 Plays2 months ago
Alina, Karthik, and Mike sound off on the news as summer wraps up and fall kicks off. Can Nestle rebrand as a health company, or will consumers continue to hold a grudge for pandemic-era price increases? What about the future of nuclear power - can it really find a place in the grid? All this and more in this episode.
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Transcript
00:00:07
Speaker
All
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:08
Speaker
right. Welcome everyone to the Innovation Matters podcast. I'm ah Mike Coleman, SVP here at Lux Research, recording our our end of summer edition here. This is it we're recording just before the long Labor Day weekend in the, in the US. I'm here with, ah with my, my colleagues, Karthik Subramanian and Alina Strugat for
Apple's Fall Event Discussion
00:00:30
Speaker
today. Karthik, how are you doing?
00:00:32
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't feel like the end of summer yet, at least in Amsterdam, because the temperatures are still hovering mid-20s. But yeah, hopefully the fall kicks in soon. um Apple has announced its fall event at least, so I'm looking forward to what they're not going to do. We'll we'll get we'll get that on the the ah the Apple breakdown on the ah on the podcast calendar off following that, but good to know. mic you Yeah. How are you, Alina?
Alina's Puppy Story
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm good. um I got a puppy about a week ago, so I hope she's not going to intrude. Like right now she's calm, but she's very, very... um She does unexpected things. says As puppies tend to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yesterday she came, I took her out for a walk and she came back with a rat. She's only like nine weeks old and i almost died. Oh, wow. The the life in Toronto.
00:01:28
Speaker
yeah yeah ah You gotta you gotta gotta post some ah puppy pictures in the in the in the luck slack. I think this I think there's a channel for that.
Nestlé's CEO Change and Challenges
00:01:38
Speaker
Well, so we wanted to chat a little bit of today about ah about Nestle, ah so major um you know food and beverage company. And somewhat precipitously, it seems got rid of their their their CEO.
00:01:56
Speaker
um which you know gets into a lot of things. It's probably a bit beyond our our scope of ah the the Innovation Matters ah podcast. Let me get into a bit of this from the the consumer perspective, but around you know kind of their pricing strategy and how they were weren't deploying their marketing budget or things seem to be some of the issues around this. But I think um a couple of things um about this caught my eye that I thought were were relevant to a lot of the themes that that we explore here. um you know One of which is that that there's some the challenges with the health sciences business at at Nestle, which includes um a lot of their ah you know vitamins, but but also ah you know nutritional drinks and ah baby formula.
00:02:53
Speaker
and And things like that has been you know it's something that Nestle has made and the previous CEO had had had made kind of a big bet on. And and there is some indication that that you know the the the challenges in that business have been part of the reason the the board, I guess, was was not satisfied to the point that a lot of um you know investment analysts are speculating that that Nestle might be spinning out the health science division, um though um they've they They have said that they're they're not planning on doing that, so at least not immediately. um But also a lot of it is, I think, kind of around the the um the velocity of innovation, too, which is something that that's been a theme in our you
Innovation and Consumer Trends in Food
00:03:40
Speaker
know at Lux. or or you know was One of the things we called out in our beginning of the year report is that know faster and more accurate innovation is going to be ah really key for um
00:03:52
Speaker
ah for CPG companies in in and that's going to be a big theme for the for the year. so It was you know kind of interesting that um that was was called out in some of the commentary around this Nestle decision that you know slower product development, new products taking longer to roll out, um ah was one of the things that that was seen as as limiting some of the um the sales growth there. so um But yeah, maybe to start with the consumer health piece. So Elina, you've dived into this a lot from the the consumer insights perspective. What were you what were your your thoughts on it? Yeah, absolutely. Well, when it comes to consumers, here's the thing. um And when it comes in to this trend of health and wellness in ah in foods,
00:04:43
Speaker
There's a vocal segment of consumers out there who really, really see food as medicine. And it's medicine that's going to help them live longer, healthier life ah lives. So we we we might think of them as like health gurus who truly believe that what you are is what you eat or what you eat is what you are.
00:05:04
Speaker
And thinking about these consumers very briefly, they yeah they're very, very careful about what they're putting in their bodies. So no sugar, no fast food, definitely nothing processed, highly processed. They're into gut friendly foods like probiotics, prebiotics, which are very, very rich in fiber.
00:05:25
Speaker
plant-based foods. They're not just thinking about their physical health, but also mental clarity is very important to them. Preventing cognitive issues like memory loss as they age is important, so they like dark chocolate, nuts. They're into coline supplements. We're seeing a surge in interest interesting when it comes to coline.
00:05:48
Speaker
literally anything that helps them with their focus and their creativity. And these health gurus are also very, very active. They have a very active lifestyle and they're they're on the lookout for foods that are packed with protein and electrolytes, anything that keeps their body going, that fuels their body with energy and keeps it going. Here's the interesting thing. While this consumer, this health-oriented consumer is isn't by any means the majority, they actually make up a tiny proportion of the population, they're loud enough, they're very loud and they're loud enough that they're driving a bigger, this trend, this bigger trend in health and wellness, and they're actually ah reconfiguring, redefining what
00:06:39
Speaker
ah indulgence means for the mainstream consumer. This is something that Anthony and I discussed in our webinar on the top five trends um to watch this year. Basically, to sum it up, indulgence is no longer about guilty pleasures. It's now seen as as a balanced, more healthy, or healthfully,
00:07:08
Speaker
healthful lifestyle. So people want to enjoy their food without the guilt and they use what we call health alibis to give themselves a sense of permission to indulge. And this is where Nestle, the consumer base for Nestle, sits. But these health alibis, they vary a lot depending on and different consumers' personal beliefs and motivations. So just to give you a couple of examples, think about the busy parents.
00:07:40
Speaker
Right? For them, health alibis in foods are all about finding balance. Life can be overwhelming, and sometimes it's really, really tough to stick to those healthy goals that you set for yourself. And when stress and anxiety hit, they turn to food for comfort. But as much as possible, just to to feel good about themselves and how they're feeding their kids, they're trying to opt for snacks that are proportioned. That's a health alibi.
00:08:05
Speaker
they're low in sugar, low in calories, they're plant-based, they're made with real ingredient, and of course they're mixing this with convenient, with ready-to-eat treats that appeal to those picky eaters, right? This choice is still helps them feel like they're theyre they're still on track whenever life gets really hard. And then of course you have the comfort creatures who use this health excuses to justify the less healthy choices that they make and avoid judgment when they're shoving their faces in a bag of chips. So they might, they might say that they're making the least bad choice like baked chips instead of fried chips.
00:08:46
Speaker
sure Or they'll they'll pick treats that fit into popular health trends like gluten-free. yeah So at the end of the day, basically this trend in health and wellness is less about saving the world and it's more about proving to yourself that you're living a good, well-balanced life. And here's the catch.
00:09:06
Speaker
For any of this to work, the food has to be tasty, but it also has to be affordable. And this is where I think that Nestle's former CEO missed the mark. He didn't really recognize that keeping prices affordable was crucial.
00:09:19
Speaker
And Nestle had built up great momentum during the pandemic, but they lost at all of consumer goodwill in 2023 by hiking prices dramatically, which was unavoidable to some extent because of the skyrocketing prices in supply supply chain and raw material cost. But this moved end up this move ended up ended up pushing shoppers away. Basically, it's ah it's a reminder that even those who are more health oriented. They still want to feel like their choices are not only good for them, but they're also smart and sustainable in the long run.
Nestlé's Strategic Focus Debate
00:10:00
Speaker
And this makes me wonder, assuming that there's a grander vision for Nestle behind this move to change the CEO. And it's not just politics because it might seem like politics. um Schneider had a really, really brilliant record for the past eight years. And just because of the
00:10:19
Speaker
downplay so my I was wondering what your opinion is. Do you think that this ah signals a strategy ah for Nestle to position itself as a leader in the health and wellness space, or should they focus more on product innovation, pricing strategies, or both, but then how feasible is that in today's market? yeah i think i mean it You make a good point. Marc Schneider, the outgoing CEO, i mean it all of these food and beverage companies as well as in a lot of other industries had a really, um I think, difficult path to navigate, you know, during and after the pandemic with all of the um supply chain issues and price impacts. And I think up until the last couple of years, the consensus was that the they you know Nestle had navigated this ah really well and in in some cases, you know, and in a lot of ways better than than their than their rivals.
00:11:14
Speaker
um ah But you know yeah you as you said, the the the food and beverage companies in general, not just Nestle, have I think followed a strategy over the last couple of years of prioritizing margin growth over over volume growth. yeah And um you know as inflation has come down more recently, that's been you know that's been necessitating a shift to to try to to get back to the volume growth. And I think that's where the ability to bring out new products, to bring out products more, you know to bring new products to the market more quickly um becomes really important and where you know it seems like Nestle was was not as successful at executing on
00:12:01
Speaker
on that face of the shift. So I would anticipate it's it's more along those lines, right of focusing on you know new products and things that can help to to help them to maintain or get back to that that sort of volume growth um as the the ability to to kind of push on price gets ah um is is is limited here.
00:12:28
Speaker
yeah we But I don't think if this move should make me reconsider my indulgence for Nesquik and for Milo. ah Well, the indulgence point is really interesting me because I was, ah you know, unrelated to Nestle, but I was talking with another but client just earlier this this week.
00:12:47
Speaker
um ah Some of our colleagues just put out this really interesting report about microbiome modulation, which I think you also worked on, right, Alina, with the from the consumer. insights perspective. um But, you know, the one of the case studies in there is Novanesis of the former Novozymes merged with Christian Hansen, and they've brought out these psychobiotic products. So psychobiotics, right, are ah ah probiotics, but there are ones that are specifically aimed at sort of the gut-brain axis, right? The way that improved gut health can can affect ah mood and and and mental health.
00:13:27
Speaker
And one of the the ways that they had formulated these the psychobiotics or optimized them for for formulation was to go into dark chocolate. So that that seems to really fit with that example of like, so like oh, i can I can eat this chocolate because you know it's good for my my mental health as that yeah that sort of permission structure for a consumer. And what we're seeing also in research that this ah like the the focus on gut health. ah Yes, it's linked with mental health, but it's also linked to skin health, right? Like ah beauty from the inside out. That's basically what you eat will eventually show in that healthy glow that you have on your skin. so it So it can tap into a lot of markets, just focusing on health.
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, and we we see consumers like interested in, particularly in prebiotics, there's a rising concern, rising interest right now in prebiotics. Well, probiotics have been a focal point for a while, but now it's prebiotics because of the fiber, right? So the fiber really like feeds the healthy bacteria in the gut and then ah it it rebrands you as a new person, mentally and physically, if I can say so.
00:14:48
Speaker
But in terms of getting into the the healthy indulgence space, if we are to call it that, ah we spoke a few podcast episodes ago about Nestle's Osempic Pizza. There are pizza starting people who are using Wegavy, people who are using Osempic or on Osempic, I should say. So they're already targeting these markets and if they're still re-strategizing, then I'm guessing it's more of a pricing issue.
00:15:14
Speaker
Because if I'm to think about it, a company as big as Nestle, right to my point of indulging in something like Nesquik, if they have a healthy alternative to Nesquik, I am sure I'm going to give that a go because that Nestle brand is a household name in the indulgence space. But would you do that if it was much much more expensive?
00:15:36
Speaker
So then it would depend on two things, right? So the first thing is I would obviously give it a go for the first time to see how it tastes like. And then this, that's my second point, which is how does it taste and how does it feel? And so if it still tastes as good as the goodness quick, the, the OGness quick, let's call it that, uh, the one which is not healthy. And then of course, you know, I think we would go for it and then you weigh the pros and cons of that price premium.
00:16:02
Speaker
But again, if they're trying to target similar products and there are other developers, for example, if I'm looking at fruit and nut bars from a brand like Naked, which is very sustainable and, you know, cruelty free, and and they're already those kind of products that exist. So if you're trying to offset those products and you don't exceed the expectations that already these brands have set, then I wouldn't want to pay that premium for it, even if it's Nestle.
00:16:31
Speaker
the look The way I see and look at it and I also see it in our research is that the the consumer who is like primarily focused on their health they wouldn't necessarily buy at Nestle. um They would buy at Whole Foods, they would buy from independent producers, like that that type of consumer who always like reads all the ingredients and wants to make sure that everything is sourced ethically and they're buying locally and so as much as possible. ah And they are willing to pay a premium price, but they wouldn't necessarily go to Nestle. The consumer base for Nestle is, ah like I said, the
00:17:11
Speaker
the busy parents, the comfort seekers, even those consumers who are ah who look at treat as a way to reward themselves for the hard work that they're doing, let's say at the gym or at work or in other areas of their lives. so and they they they're looking for this health alibis to give them a sense of permission to indulge or to so satisfy their their cravings on something that is not, or at least so far hasn't been seen as a health brand. Nestle, as much as we love it, I don't think it's like the pinnacle of health for consumers. so for For this indulgent,
00:17:57
Speaker
consumers, they they want they i they're expecting foods to be tasty, affordable, and to give those them those health alibis. That said, if it's pure junk food, ah that might also not appeal very much with them anymore, right? Because we are already on the bandwagon that health and Wellness is ah is the way to go. It's it's it's becoming a staple household. Yeah, i think it's you know and I think that's part of what what Nestle is trying to to address also.
Brand Management and Consumer Segmentation
00:18:35
Speaker
as you know The Nestle brand is you know more associated with chocolate and things and things like that. um you know The company Nestle owns other brands. you know like the There's the Garden of Life vitamins and supplements.
00:18:49
Speaker
um you know, brand or was a company that was was acquired by Nestle, um you know, last decade sometimes. So there's, you know, there' I think that's part of what their, you know, that goal with the health sciences businesses is to to capture some of those other types of consumers, um you know, with other brands under the under the same corporate umbrella.
00:19:13
Speaker
um But that's always that can always be challenging right to to when you're you're managing different different types of brands that have you know potentially very different types of types of consumers or types of of of a value propositions that can be ah can be be tricky to integrate.
00:19:33
Speaker
But um as I said, the other aspect of this that I thought was interesting is just kind of looking at the the importance of, ah ah of in and it's it's, you know, it's great for us at at at Lux and at the Innovation Matters podcast to see like, you know, innovation actually highlighted in some of the, you know, Wall Street analyst ah write ups of these and saying that, you know, Nestle essentially needs to kind of pick up the pace of of new new product introduction.
00:20:00
Speaker
and That's another area we've been looking at a lot with respect to ah you know AI and and how that can can help to to bring products to to market more quickly. And our our colleague Elna Shabani just wrote it a really interesting report about AI and in consumer products and and all of the different you know sorts of use cases from you know consumer trends to to ah to formulations, to supply chain, to manufacturing, all the different ways that you can kind of optimize and and and and speed up in innovation using using AI. And I think that's going to be a significant... you know can is As you're starting to see this, as companies are coming out of this you know coming out of this period of higher inflation and looking to rely more on on new product introductions and volume growth as opposed to
00:20:54
Speaker
ah to price increases, to to to to be able to grow profits, I think you're going to see a lot more activity there. And Nestle's been doing that too, right? there's um They've worked with this this AI company called Cambry on on identifying new product ah and and executing on sort of new product ideas. um And And I'm i'm sure a number of other things behind the scenes too, a lot of the the food and beverage companies that that we talk to are really are really interested in this. And I think it's um yeah don't know it's it's interesting from an innovation perspective, we've we've kind of covered for a long time materials informatics here at Lux, so looking at how you can use AI to um ah to speed up development of new new materials and new chemicals.
00:21:46
Speaker
but it seems like the, ah you know, may be driven by some of these these these trends that some of these same trends that Nestle is experiencing. we're seeing the impact of of AI actually and on on innovation, on R and&D, ah maybe coming in quicker and faster actually in the the food and beverage or or broader consumer product sectors, um as opposed to you know some of the more material science areas where there's there's been a lot of ah you know really interesting science going on, but but hasn't
00:22:20
Speaker
um hasn't become ah probably as big a part of R and&D and in in that sector.
00:22:29
Speaker
I know know is this is something that you run into with ah with with with folks on the, a and i i I think it is right Alina for for for you and your team with with folks and consumer insights, they're looking to accelerate there.
AI and Personalized Health Solutions
00:22:44
Speaker
That's one of the the big kind of the key um you know things that we're hearing from um from from customers there too, both on sort of the technical R and&D as well as on the consumer insights side. How can we how can we accelerate?
00:22:58
Speaker
our innovation progress with AI or with these types of technologies. Yeah. We're seeing over and over that consumer when it comes to consumers and AI, a or AI and foods and super foods. Consumers are interested in customization or like personalization as much as possible, but most like the more time for this customization. like It would be amazing If that AI could tap into the unknown in my body, like it could if it could figure out what vitamins I'm missing, what minerals I'm missing, what's going to make me a superhuman, and then i I can reach to that chocolate bar that gives me all that. and ah yeah that's That would be ideal. but so yeah i mean I exaggerated a little bit, but consumers do are really preoccupied with the with
00:23:51
Speaker
and they're interested in customized solutions that would um basically um free up some time for like or like give them a sense of I can free space to um to focus on what matters rather than fretting about how to build this
00:24:15
Speaker
great feat of engineering that my body is. Yeah. such Yeah. I mean, that's a great point. and I was just going to say, so I guess, are we going to get, a um i'm I'm sure we are going to see a lot of fitness centers and gyms, yeah health centers trying to include AI.
00:24:34
Speaker
try to customize schedules and diets yeah to a specific person's needs and in terms of what they're missing and what their goals are. But I was just thinking of it from a very comical perspective of, so probably AI is going to help us develop a serum that makes us cap in America one day. But it just becomes something. Maybe. Democratize it. Democratize the superpower. But yeah, I think that personalization insight is actually really important because I I think with the AI in in and capabilities, and I mean, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of ways and a lot of you know companies that can can help to provide AI-based recommendations for formulations or flavors or or things like that. And and i you know I won't say it's it's easy or or trivial or or or established, but but I think that's a capability a lot of companies can access. I think with what they're gonna,
00:25:32
Speaker
differentiate on more as kind of what do you do with that capability? What's the right right sort of strategy to to apply to ah to to leverage that AI capability of maybe developing new products, developing new formulations, new recipes, or what have you more quickly. um Personalization could be um could be a really interesting way to leverage that.
00:25:58
Speaker
And two weeks ago, I think it was two weeks ago that we talked about how global warming is affecting the way we eat. So I can see a role of AI into tapping into that ah market, like the the foods of the future, the foods that can withstand climate change. That could be another possibility.
Nuclear Innovations and Energy Security
00:26:21
Speaker
Well, speaking of withstanding climate change, um the other story that I think caught our eye this this week was ah was on the nuclear front, a perennial favorite here on the Innovation Matters podcast. And so I'll i'll kick it over to our our lead nuclear correspondent, Karthik here. What's the news this week?
00:26:41
Speaker
Well, you make me sound like a nuclear physicist, you know, devious in a lab. But of course I do, you know, cover innovations in the nuclear space. And no this was, of course, kind of interesting to me in a way. so that So the news, of course, is that the Tennessee Valley Authority, a utility from the state of Tennessee, ah they have agreed to fund 150 million US dollars to their small model nuclear program and this takes the total tally to about 350 million US s dollars since they started looking into the space I believe in 2022. Now this is not the first time we have seen a utility partner with a small model reactor developer or look into the possibility of small model reactors in their portfolio
00:27:33
Speaker
The best example would be the utility consortium from Utah that was working with NuScale to develop the project there. So we have had several projects come in, but I think it is kind of interesting to me that this is, I believe one of the first times or the only time I have seen a utility fund a project, like from their own side, which I don't think has happened before because they have signed offtake agreements per se.
00:28:00
Speaker
ah to say we are going to you know have this project developer who will build this reactor for us ah and and then we are going to sell this electricity to someone else. so ah I think it's very interesting that they want to look at nuclear reactors to lower energy costs, which I think is kind of strange because nuclear is very expensive and I think it will remain expensive. so I don't think the right way to go about it is to look at the retail market with nuclear and say we are going to build nuclear reactors to give you reliable low carbon power because utilities typically tend to pass the cost down of projects to their customers and and that ultimately means the electricity bills are going to go up, which I don't think consumers will be really happy about.
00:28:47
Speaker
So the opportunities are still there, of course, ah to look at opportunities in industrial decarbonization. So industrial microgrids powering data centers, for example. So there are those opportunities that they could definitely tap into. And if I'm not mistaken, they are also working with Ontario Power Generation and other energy companies ah to develop a boiling water reactor that's developed by G. Hitachi Energy.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, so this is, I mean, and I think part of the the rationale for this too is the, um you know, that this is an area that is experiencing a lot of load growth. And so it's that the does not just cover Tennessee, but it's a big chunk of the southeastern US in an area where there is a lot of growth in manufacturing, where there is, I think there are only a a little bit of Virginia, um but that's ah so maybe it's not as affected by
00:29:51
Speaker
as much by data center growth, though I think there's there's some of that as well. But um ah you know on a i you know as you said, nuclear is probably not going to be the the cheapest thing, especially not these small modular reactors, at least at the early stages, right? It's yeah it's ah these first-of-a-kind type of plants are going to be more expensive. But the virtue of nuclear, of course, is on the grid stability front, right? It provides that as we were talking about in the in the Google context ah the other week, that clean firm power, right it's it's it's constant, it's baseload. And that's something that, especially with things like data centers and even factories that are that her running ah multiple shifts, right there's ah there's a lot of value to that to that type of that type of consistent baseload power.
00:30:41
Speaker
ah for that type of load growth can be more valuable, I think, than, you know, than wind or solar, even if it's on a levelized cost of electricity basis might be might be higher. Definitely. But I think Alina, you may have some insights on this because we have had a lot of questions ah from within Lux when we have discussion about nuclear and data centers, and even from our clients who ask us questions on What are consumers thinking about this application plus the growth of data centers in general? um Now, this is not particularly related to their negative perceptions of AI, for example. But are consumers really thinking about whether data centers are green or whether data centers are actually getting low carbon power? What are the other sources they are looking at? How is that energy demand going to affect
00:31:34
Speaker
you know, how I view or consume electricity. Is that something you have come across?
00:31:41
Speaker
um and see I haven't really come across that rather than, I would say that when it comes to data centers, a there's an indication that consumers are a little bit skeptical about the it's how green it is. um there They're concerned about, for example, I don't know if this is really but blockchain,
00:32:04
Speaker
um but the emissions, right? the The environmental degradation by blockchain ah and batteries, right? So they they are making this association by and large that technology is not necessarily gonna save us out of climate change.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I think with the you know the other aspect of this with that's that's interesting with the TVA is because it's you know it's it's not just any other utility, right? it it It's a publicly owned company. um And so there I do think that part of this is is the calculation here is not just that this is the going to be the most cost-effective way to meet the to meet the demand growth we're seeing, but that there is a more sort of strategic element to this. and i the the The CEO of the TVA even said this in the announcement of there um of this additional investment. It says, SMRs are are an energy innovation technology that America must dominate for our energy security, which is really our our national security. so
00:33:24
Speaker
ah He's really articulating there that that kind of additional strategic rationale for ah for for why, um you know from a policy and and and and public interest level, they they see a desire for the US to be leading or at least um keeping up and and and having a strong capability and position in this and this technology.
00:33:45
Speaker
and And to that point of strategy, I think it's interesting that a lot of nuclear energy related activity takes place at Tennessee because you have the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, which also recently announced the project with Kairos Power for the Hermes non-water based ah reactor demonstration. And so it's, I think TVA, the TVN, when I think about the TVA, I start thinking about Marvel and the Time Variance Authority. So that's why I struggled to say TVA, but the Tenancy Value Authority. So they, you know, ah I think they're strategically positioned in the state of Tennessee.
00:34:25
Speaker
because of the presence of Oak Ridge National Laboratory and how they can leverage that expertise to help develop reactors. So, ah of course, it's a wise move that way. I just watched to Oppenheimer a couple of weeks ago, so ah there was more of the New Mexico side depicted there, but it did talk about how Oak Ridge was was really key in the original development of us ah the US nuclear program.
00:34:54
Speaker
um I think that'll be a good place for us to to wrap up here for for the
Podcast Wrap-Up and Upcoming Events
00:35:00
Speaker
week. So thanks for good discussion on those. And fans of the of the podcast here, you can ah like and rate and review on on all your your favorite podcast platforms that that helps us out and helps helps other people.
00:35:15
Speaker
ah find the show. um And also, if you'd like to find us in person, you can, um i Lux and and our our colleagues, we're going to be doing a series of forums this this fall that we're really kicking off preparations for, well, have preparations well underway for now. We're going to be in Amsterdam in October, October 8th, I believe.
00:35:41
Speaker
ah in Tokyo in in November and in in in Silicon Valley, Bay Area, California in in December. So if you go to the Lux website, you can find more more information about those and and catch some of the the the team in person at those as well.
00:35:59
Speaker
But thanks for thanks for listening. Thanks, Karthik, Elina, for a good discussion, and we'll talk to you all again soon. Thanks. innovation matters is a production of lux research leading sustainable innovation research and advisory firm You can follow this podcast on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want more, check out www.luxresearchinc dot.com slash blog for all of the latest news, opinions, and articles. so