3: Need a Family Lawyer? Find Your Best Fit & Prepare for the First Meeting

Transcript

Speaker: In today's episode, we are going to discuss three questions that you need answered when you have finally decided to reach out to a family lawyer for your separation or divorce. Number one, how do I find a lawyer who's the right fit for me?

Speaker: Number two, how can I come prepared for the first meeting with a lawyer so that I can get the most value out of the meeting? Number three, what can I expect from this first meeting with a lawyer?

Speaker: Hey there, my name is Annabelle, your host, dog mom, musical theater lover, life enthusiast, and practicing family law lawyer. But most importantly, fellow traveler on this wild, beautiful journey we call life.

Speaker: It's a real pleasure to meet you. I'm a Cheshire girl who swapped the rolling hills of England for the stunning Okanagan Valley. I got my undergraduate degree in psychology from UBC Okanagan and after my undergrad I packed my bags headed off to Scotland for law school at the University of Edinburgh.

Speaker: But now I'm back in Canada, living on the wonderful West Coast in the city of Victoria, beautiful British Columbia. And I am in the thick of my career as a family lawyer.

Speaker: And I have a goal to provide you with a compass for navigating through the tough challenges that come with separation and divorce, and to empower you to transform one of these toughest hurdles into an opportunity to rebuild, rebrand and refocus your future. Welcome to That Was So Real, where my goal becomes a reality.

Speaker: This podcast is your safe space. I will take the taboo out of talking about the real stuff to do with relationship breakdowns. Because I believe that obtaining your legal separation is only the start of your new journey.

Speaker: And I'm here to save you time in accessing the resources that you need to move forward stronger and better than ever.

Speaker: Welcome back, everyone. Thanks for tuning in for episode three. Let's get into three questions that come up when you've decided to reach out to a lawyer for help with your family law matter.

Speaker: Coming up first, we are going to discuss how you find a lawyer who is the right fit for you. Then we're going to talk about how you can come prepared for that very first meeting and get the most value out of the meeting.

Speaker: Finally, we'll talk a little bit about what you can expect from that first meeting so you don't feel so overwhelmed when you finally get to that point. In answering these questions, we will cover some basic need-to-knows so that the process does not feel so terrifying.

Speaker: Because let's be real, if you're looking for these answers, you probably have enough on your p plate. Any resources I mentioned throughout the episode will be linked in the show description and the show notes, which are posted to my web website at agosling.ca. That's agosling.ca.

Speaker: Now, before we get started, remember from episode one, this is a judgment-free space where there are no stupid questions. We are taking this time together to get out of our heads about the past and leave any worries or feelings of guilt, shame or blame to one side so the focus can be on moving forward.

Speaker: I'm giving you guilt-free pass to hold onto for each and every episode so that you can take this time to put yourself first. So I've said it before, everyone, and I'll say it again.

Speaker: The way we see the world is unique to each and every person in it. And as hard as we try to relate to the other people while respecting our own values... Sometimes our realities clash and collide with those around us and there's no amount of trying that can fix something that no longer serves us.

Speaker: We need to move forward with strength and perseverance and that is why we are here today. So get out the pass, get comfortable from wherever you are listening and let's get into the real talk.

Speaker: Number one, how do I find a lawyer who is the right fit for me? I pretty much know that if I have the pleasure of meeting with you as a client, you fit into one of three categories.

Speaker: Maybe you've been separated for a while and you've tried every other option to resolve things and it just didn't work out. So here you are having to call someone like me. Or maybe you separated from your partner and immediately called to book a meeting with a lawyer, so I'm seeing you very soon after.

Speaker: Or maybe you're considering a separation but you haven't yet taken the leap and you want to know your options first. I'm sure you relate to one of these so you know you're not alone.

Speaker: But let me be clear, it doesn't matter to me at which stage in the game you are reaching out for help. Whether you want to talk to a lawyer as soon as possible to figure out next steps, or you have some hesitation about the process and want to try something else first, or you just didn't feel like you needed a lawyer right away, when you decide to reach out, I want you to reach out to the person who is a good match for you so that you can get the absolute most value out of the first meeting and the rest of your experience.

Speaker: Because no matter where you are in this journey, if you haven't got the legal piece out of the way, you are about to make an investment into getting closure. And like any investment, you want to be sure you are going to get the best return, emotionally and financially.

Speaker: So how do you find that right fit? Well, you have to know where to look for one, and then you have to know your own criteria for what you want, need, and expect. So first, you've got to find some referrals.

Speaker: So where do you even start? Let's chat through some of the most common ways you can find the names of some family lawyers in your community. The most obvious way is to find some names through a search engine, Google, for example.

Speaker: Another very common one is through word of mouth. Perhaps your brother's wife's sister, Mary Ann, told you that Joe Bloggs from Best Lawyers LLP got her a killer settlement and you simply must call them first.

Speaker: Or perhaps you just got a referral from another professional like a financial advisor or a social worker or someone like that. Because there are pros and cons to each of these ways to find a name or a firm to call, it is so important that you consider what I say next.

Speaker: None of these ways are going to bring you to your right fit if you think that you can simply call the first person who shows up on Google or the first name someone gives you. I repeat, it doesn't make a lick of difference which one of these ways brings you to a number to call if you think that that is the only step in the process.

Speaker: We're doing a whole episode about this. And why? Well, just like we know how you and every single person in this world is unique, so is your relationship and so are the goals you have for yourself and your family going forward.

Speaker: So if you just take that first recommendation to land in your lap, you might be missing out on finding a lawyer that best meets your unique needs. It makes sense because whoever made that recommendation will have had a completely different relationship, different challenges, different goals that may or may not apply to you.

Speaker: The first step I have for you when you're starting your search is to remember this rule. You and your situation are unique. You deserve more than a recommendation who is not tailored to your needs.

Speaker: But getting the recommendations is a great start. All you need to care about now is how you can trust and connect with the professional you are about to share your reality with. Because contrary to popular belief, lawyers are also people and you and your lawyer must have a professional relationship that meets your needs and expectations.

Speaker: So you're thinking, i don't even know what I need. i have way too many questions and I did research, I googled and found some websites. Isn't that enough? Well, stick with me here.

Speaker: Step two in how to find a lawyer that's the right fit is definitely figuring out what these needs and expectations are. And we are going to cover a little bit of a checklist right here and right now today to help you discover some of these needs and expectations.

Speaker: Because in this context, I'm not talking about what you're hoping the result of your family law journey will be. Expectations like how soon do you need to see a lawyer? What kind of communication do you prefer between yourself and the lawyer?

Speaker: What's your budget? You know, all of these things that will come up before you're even looking into the details of how you would like to resolve your family law matter. If you have some names of lawyers from a referral or through an online search, I recommend you take a pause to get a clear picture of these needs and expectations before going any further.

Speaker: Alright, so to guide you on your way of coming up with a list of some of these needs and expectations that I'm going on about, let's jump into some basic need-to-knows. You need to know how urgent your matter is.

Speaker: And I really do mean urgent, not important. Everyone's matter is important. But what I'm saying is you might want to consider skipping the lines and getting in to see someone ASAP if one of the following sounds familiar.

Speaker: Sorry to point out the obvious, but if your ex sent you court documents or threatened to do so, you might want to make that call sooner rather than later. If you have kids and you can't work out who gets to have them and when, again, probably good to make a move.

Speaker: Another thing might just be that you simply cannot stand to be in a room with one another and things are far from pleasant. It also might be the case that you're not married. And if you're in British Columbia and you aren't married, but it's been almost two years since you separated, you need to make sure you start the process for formalizing your separation as soon as possible.

Speaker: This is because in British Columbia, you only get two years to tell your ex that you still want to claim a portion of the stuff you shared together. But as long as you start the process before that two years is up, you're still good to go to take your time to settle everything between you.

Speaker: Lastly, but most importantly, if you are concerned in any way for your physical or emotional safety or that of your children, please do not wait to speak to a lawyer before making sure you are in a safe place.

Speaker: Call emergency services first. Lawyers can step in to help you later on. If none of these examples jumped out at you right away, you might not be in a hurry.

Speaker: There's probably no rush if you have a marriage or cohabitation agreement which says how you will divide things if you separate. There's also likely no rush if you want a divorce but you're already living separately and you can stand to have a conversation with one another.

Speaker: Or if you would prefer to get things sorted, but you're amicable and the kids are on a schedule you're both happy with. And maybe you weren't married, but the separation is fresh, aka you aren't up against that two-year deadline we just mentioned.

Speaker: That means you really don't need to worry. So that's the first thing to figure out. How urgently do you need to get in? But what's up next on the needs list? How about, do I need someone who will go to court, in other words, a litigator, or a solicitor?

Speaker: Okay, pause. What are you talking about, Annabelle? Well, a litigator or a barrister is someone who will go to court for you or attend court with you if you need it. And a solicitor is a lawyer who will help you with negotiating and writing out your agreements for dividing things with your ex, but won't go to court if things go sour.

Speaker: So again, you might want to consider, am I still able to talk to my ex or do we fight all the time and we are unable to be in a room together? Did you put yourself in that category of finding a lawyer who was available sooner rather than later?

Speaker: Because this typically means you expect things not to go super smoothly and might need someone to help you with court. Now that's not to say that if you hire a litigator, you can't still try to settle things out of court, but at least it's nice to know that they can go to court for you if things get heated.

Speaker: Now there's some very basic starting points when you're trying to figure out what your needs are when you're trying to find a lawyer. You want to know how urgent your matter is because that's going to help you figure out how soon you need to see someone and what kind of lawyer you might need to see.

Speaker: Moving on to discussing expectations, this can be a bit of a longer list and you do want to keep this in mind when you are searching and when you are finally meeting with someone.

Speaker: An important one is communications. I think it's safe to say that everyone wants to find a lawyer who will keep them posted about what's going on along the way. But it's not going to be immediately clear when you're searching for a lawyer online or elsewhere how or how often they will keep in touch with you.

Speaker: So ask yourself now and be really honest with yourself about this. Are you the sort of person who needs consistent updates and think that a lawyer who has staff and resources to keep in touch with you often, even if there's nothing urgent on the go, would be the best option?

Speaker: Then great, there's nothing wrong with that. Some lawyers I know have 80 different files at any given time, and they want to prioritize everyone, but communications have to work on a putting out fires basis, and this may not be the best fit for you.

Speaker: It's okay if you need a little bit more. And there's no magical rules to who or who doesn't have that level of time that you're looking for. But it's something that you can keep in the back of your mind when you're looking for lawyers or you're in your first meeting with a lawyer.

Speaker: You can say, i am someone who needs a little bit more communication. How are you doing for time? What's our timeline like? And it leads into a bigger conversation about grander expectations, which is going to be really helpful for you in making any decisions.

Speaker: Now you're probably going to laugh at me about this one, but honestly you do want to consider the kind of vibe that you're looking for with the lawyer you're going to spend quite a bit of time with. um I'm not crazy, this is important.

Speaker: You need to be comfortable meeting with the lawyer in their offices or in general. So for me personally, I am more of a casual lawyer unless I'm in court. And for some people that works. I'm going to show up in my converse to the office and, you know, I'm probably going to wear a big floppy sweater or something along those lines.

Speaker: And that might not inspire a lot of confidence in you. I don't know. But you might prefer a more formal setting to give you some separation from the outside world. And that is totally fine. I do believe that the environment that you're in is going to have an impact on how you're experiencing what you're experiencing.

Speaker: um There's a subconscious influence about our surroundings that impacts us day to day. And why would this be any different? So do keep that in the back of your mind when you're showing up to an office. If it's not feeling right, it's probably that this isn't the right space.

Speaker: Your instincts are going to tell you where you need to be. before we get too ahead of ourselves, the big elephant in the room is obviously going to be budget. So what can you afford? i know that budget is one of the biggest and most difficult topics to discuss and at this stage, it is likely that you're aware of your budget for at least the first meeting.

Speaker: But I did promise you the real talk. So I can let you know right here that while some lawyers do free initial meetings with clients, you can expect a range, at least in British Columbia, between about $200 to $500 per hour for your first meeting.

Speaker: And that depends on the lawyer's experience. And I know that that might have had most listeners kind of cringing wherever they are, but we are going to talk about how best to make the most out of that first meeting so that you are getting the value that you are paying for.

Speaker: So there are some basic expectations. We have how do you expect the communication to go? What kind of vibes do you expect? How are you going to feel comfortable in this process? And what is your budget?

Speaker: We're doing really well on our topic of how to find the lawyer that is the best fit for you. We've already found our references. We have set out some very basic needs and expectations. And now we get to the part that everyone sort of dreads, but we'll fly through it.

Speaker: It's research. You have to look these people up. We do have to do a few more things before we call a number. Get out your phone, laptop, or whatever, and throw the name of the lawyer or their firm into Google, and let's just see what comes up.

Speaker: Chances are there will be a website where you can do some reading. And as soon as you hit enter on the search of, you know, family lawyers in X location, I want you to do something really difficult before you even let the browser load, if you're that quick.

Speaker: But just promise me that you won't get dragged in by a flashy website or completely put off by one bad review. Hear me out on this. You are not hiring a wedding photographer where the branding, the colors, the fonts, the portfolio tells you something about the type of product you are going to receive.

Speaker: Nor are you looking for a new hairstylist where scrolling through their photos is going to give you a pretty good example of the quality of their work. The only inference I would draw from a big flashy website for a lawyer or a bunch of lawyers is perhaps the size of their business or their marketing budget.

Speaker: I would be hard pressed to say that it's determinative of anything that you or I need to look at when we're trying to decide who's the best fit. A flashy website does not necessarily mean that your lawyer is not the person working as a sole practitioner with a single page bio.

Speaker: And on the flip side to that, the work of a bigger firm with a larger marketing budget could be just as flashy and amazing as the website. But again, that doesn't mean that a firm with a lesser advertising and marketing budget shouldn't be an option.

Speaker: I'm really trying to draw a line between picking a lawyer that seems to have the most success in general and picking the lawyer that is going to help you meet your goals.

Speaker: Those are different things and they have nothing to do with how they brand themselves on the internet. Marketing is marketing. Wherever you go, a firm might be new and need to throw a little bit extra to getting the word out there.

Speaker: An older firm might be relying on word of mouth. Now what about when you go to click on someone's website and before you even get there you notice a one star review followed by a whole heap of words and caps and many exclamation points and angry face emojis.

Speaker: Reviews can be both a great resource or the devil in disguise. The truth is not everyone is going to be happy with the result of how their family law matter went. or the lawyer that they worked with.

Speaker: it It happens, right? You might be seeing comments from someone who didn't even hire the lawyer. Perhaps they acted for their ex-spouse. You might be seeing comments from someone who simply didn't find their match and wants everybody out there to know about it.

Speaker: Or you might be seeing comments that come from a place of truth, but you're not going to know the difference and this should not hold you back in the first instance. I would like you to reserve your space, time and energy for continuing your research rather than trying to figure out the legitimacy of one bad review.

Speaker: If there are hundreds of bad reviews, well, maybe that might be a hint. Alright, thank goodness. We have finally made it to the stage where we've made it past the first click. Now you've hit the bios page.

Speaker: Perfect. And guess what I'm going to tell you next? Read the bios, people. I know it's obvious, but the chances are that these bios are going to tell you a little bit about this person's training and credentials and also what they like to do in their spare time.

Speaker: Sounds pretty standard. And I will say some of the spare time commentary can come off a bit cheesy, but you will notice yourself feeling an affinity or a pull towards a person's bio that you connect with.

Speaker: and at the very least you will get information about what this lawyer's areas of practice are. I really want you to take the opportunity when you are reading the bios to write down three words or sentences that jump out at you from that person's bio.

Speaker: Scribble them down somewhere or put them in a phone memo when we're done the episode. What we are doing here is practicing noting our intuition again, those initial pulls, the things that jump out about the lawyer before we allow ourselves to get bogged down with the decision.

Speaker: These initial scribbles are going to be so valuable to you when you come back to look at your final picks. Your success on finding this perfect match is going to depend partially on your ability to block out the noise driven by all of your questions and concerns about everything going on in life at this moment in time and for you to be able to finally narrow down that search and pick someone who you feel you will connect with and who will connect with your personality and your goals.

Speaker: Because you also remember my horrifically cheesy example of Marianne. Well, Marianne forgot to tell you that Joe Bloggs is a corporate lawyer based out of Vancouver who helped her sue a big department store after she tripped and fell over a wet floor sign that she did not see.

Speaker: It had nothing to do with separation or divorce. You get my point. I will stop calling out poor Mary my imaginary person who was trying to give you a good reference.

Speaker: But you have to go deeper than just a name because you you honestly could be getting referrals for someone who doesn't even practice family law. And it's pretty guaranteed that your emotional capacity at this point is very limited.

Speaker: You do not want to go on a deep dive. You just need help. And maybe you're overwhelmed and nervous and it's totally understandable. But at least you know from this super quick online check-in who the lawyer is, what areas they practice in, and if you share any similar values and pastimes and you have a bit more to go off than just a face or a name.

Speaker: Overall, I want you to feel comfortable and like you can make it to the first meeting with your lawyer feeling confident enough to share your story. The bio will also likely tell you something about the number of years the lawyer has been in practice.

Speaker: And yes, unfortunately, that does typically mean a higher hourly rate. When it comes to the experience of the lawyer or the number of years they have been practicing, I want to debunk any myth you have heard that if you are not rich, you cannot get a good lawyer.

Speaker: This is just not the case. Please don't think I can't afford the lawyer that has been practicing for 20 years, so I guess I'll just have to miss out. Yes, a number of years in practice is a good indicator of expertise. And of course, it can't always be all be about the lawyer you think you'll have the best working relationship with, like we've been talking about, because knowledge and expertise obviously do matter.

Speaker: But a lawyer with an affordable rate might be a big factor for you. It's a huge factor actually for everyone accessing the legal system and this does not necessarily indicate that you won't get great support.

Speaker: Junior lawyers are often heavily monitored by those with many more years of experience. And a way to figure out how true that is for the specific lawyer you might be considering is to ask some questions at the time you meet.

Speaker: We can discuss these later, but basically you want to know things like whether they are working with any senior lawyers on files, how many clients they have, etc. So let's come back to this.

Speaker: Perfect. You've looked the lawyer up and for the real investigators out there, there might be some more in-depth browsing you want to do. If you have well and truly met the ceiling of what you're willing to do right now to find someone to speak with, just call it a day.

Speaker: But for those true investigators, you can look up whether the lawyer you are thinking about reaching out to has had any reported disciplinary actions brought against them. So if you're in British Columbia, you can do this by going to the Law Society of BC's tribunal website.

Speaker: And I will throw this website in the show notes so you don't have to remember it. But you can search a name in there and see if the lawyer that you are looking into has any past or current citations for violating any of our Law Society rules or the Code of Professional Conduct for British Columbia.

Speaker: And that's just the code that us lawyers have to abide by to make sure we're practicing ethically. You don't need to know anything about the Law Society rules or the Code of Conduct to know that your first choice might not be someone whose name pops up too many times.

Speaker: And if you're not in BC, you can find similar resources local to your area. For example, the Law Society of Alberta has a similar page linked to their website, and I will also include this in the show notes.

Speaker: Finally, for the investigators out there, you can search for cases that the lawyer has worked on in court through a database called Canly. Canly is a website where you can look up reported cases and take a read of the cases that that lawyer has been to court on.

Speaker: One thing to note about this though is that this does not indicate how many times a lawyer has been in court. Only certain cases get reported and it depends on the case. So a lawyer could have been in a courtroom a hundred times and successfully represented clients on cases that just don't end up getting reported.

Speaker: But it can be interesting to take a look. My last tip on the question of how do I find a lawyer that's the right fit for me is to try and make time to call the firm or email the lawyer themselves if they are a sole practitioner before you set up your appointment.

Speaker: And you're going to ask two questions. Firstly, you'll say something like, I think I would like to work with so and so. Can you please tell me if they're taking any new clients? And if they are, what is the timeline for me getting in to meet them?

Speaker: I cannot tell you how much time this will save you. Lots of firms have questionnaires for you to fill out before your appointment, and these forms can be very time consuming. The last thing you need is to have researched a lawyer, filled out the questionnaire, and only for you to receive an email or call back saying they aren't available for six months or more.

Speaker: And yeah, this really does happen. Now, if you find out that the lawyer is available, you can also say, thanks so much. Before you go, can you please check my name and my ex-spouse's name in the system to make sure that there are no conflicts of interest in your firm representing me?

Speaker: Now, the chances are the person who answers might not be able to look this up in that very moment. But the reason you ask is this. If the lawyer you want to work with has had any connection to your ex-partner, for example, they may have already reached out and met with them.

Speaker: Yikes. Then they obviously can't work with you. And it is mandatory at some point before seeing you that the lawyer looks this up. So it's nice to get this out of the way before you've put all the efforts into that questionnaire I was talking to you about.

Speaker: And finally, this is a good chance to ask or a good opportunity to ask what the charges are for the first meeting. Do they do free first meetings or is it an hourly rate basis?

Speaker: It's of use to know this at this stage if it hasn't already been clear from the website.

Speaker: Amazing. We got through it. Let's recap. How do you find a lawyer who is the right fit for you? You gather those referrals, you work out your needs and expectations, and then you do the research and make a call.

Speaker: So now you are feeling pretty good at this stage, I hope, about those first steps. And I want to close this conversation by saying one thing, and I said this in the first episode, I will say it again.

Speaker: Just because you are reaching out to a lawyer for help, it does not mean that you have failed at trying to manage your way through this difficult part of your life alone or amicably or out of court.

Speaker: This is not where your mind needs to be in these moments. What you're doing here is looking for tools, for resources, for a helping hand, which everybody needs in some way, shape or form when they are going through a separation.

Speaker: Do not buy into anyone telling you, oh, you're reaching out to a lawyer, that means you're the one creating the conflict. Oh, if you call a lawyer, then you've really blown everything up. Absolutely not.

Speaker: Honestly, I see this all the time from new clients who come to see me and they say, i'm feeling some kind of shame for being here. I felt like we could do this outside of court. I felt like we could do this between us. And there's a level of disappointment there or shame.

Speaker: Remember that guilt-free pass? Let's reframe this and throw any of those thought processes out of the window right off the bat. This is you taking the reins and taking charge of how you want your future to look.

Speaker: So congratulations for doing it honestly and truly.

Speaker: Question number two that we are going to address today is how do you get prepared for that first meeting with your lawyer so that you get the best value out of that meeting? And of course, when you go to this first meeting, it's really going to validate whether or not all of that research and effort you put in gave you the right pick.

Speaker: And if not, you go to your next pick. But at least we have that all sorted out in advance. So let's talk about the initial stages of booking the appointment, getting prepared and how to save money right away.

Speaker: Well, when you're doing that first phone call we've already talked about and you're asking about who's taking clients, it's likely that you'll then get the offer to be put through to that lawyer's assistant so that you can book the appointment.

Speaker: Or more often than not, you'll be asked to fill out an online form. In my practice, we have an online form you can use to request an appointment and then you can also call and make the appointment.

Speaker: But the online form asks you to provide some details about yourself. And whether you call or make the appointment online, you're going to come across it. So the details will include things like what your ex-spouse's name is, basic stuff, your children, if you have any, and some other details about when you separated and so on.

Speaker: You don't have to fill out the whole darn thing right away. But once you receive the form, our intake coordinator checks for those conflicts we were talking about and calls you back to schedule the appointment.

Speaker: And it is at this stage when you finally have your appointment that the work does kind of bounce back in your direction. Now, let's just talk through these magical forms that I keep going on about.

Speaker: And let me explain to you why they're important. Bang for your buck. Trust me, if you have time to spare and the emotional capacity to come prepared to your meeting with a lawyer, you will save money.

Speaker: You honestly will save money. I'm going to use myself as an example of how these first meetings go. I review any and all the information that you have provided to me about what's going on for you before I see you.

Speaker: And the more I know beforehand, the better I can show up for you. I can tailor my questions and my advice to you so that you get to hear the answers to your biggest questions in the most efficient and time-sensitive way.

Speaker: Again, the basic questions you will come across on most of these forms, or as we call them, intake questionnaires, are name and date of birth, etc., the basic info about you and your ex-partner, your children's names and dates of birth if you have children, your jobs and approximately what you make in your job.

Speaker: And no, we're not just being nosy. We need these numbers so that we can come up with some calculations for child support and spousal support if they apply to your situation. We also ask for some basic information about your assets so the lawyer has some idea of what you need to divide with your ex and any other notes that you can give about your situation, how things are going and any other types of things you have tried to do to resolve things between you and overall what you think you need help with the most.

Speaker: It sounds like a long list, but every detail you provide about background is a detail you don't have to discuss at your meeting, where instead you could be getting that initial advice that you need about your options and clarity about the steps forward.

Speaker: And quite frankly, you are going through a rough time at this stage and I know that. So I would like to save you the fear of having to rehash all that again with me in a meeting.

Speaker: Perhaps it's easier for you to write that down in advance. I know what's going on. And if we want to talk more about it in your meeting, we can, but at least you're not worried about having to rehash or deep dive back into that background.

Speaker: As a very brief side note, I just wanted to say if you have any concerns about reaching out because you have not yet spoken to your partner about separation or you don't feel safe to do so, firms have procedures for communicating with you in those scenarios.

Speaker: The best way to ask about this is to call the firm in advance of sending anything in online and let them know. If you're feeling overwhelmed at this stage about getting prepared in this way, do not worry.

Speaker: i have created something to help out with this. I have made you a free resource, which I call the separation checklist. This is a list of all the documents you can gather before your first meeting or early in the process of your family law matter, which will make it 100% easier for you to show up to your meeting organized, confident, and ready to hit reset.

Speaker: So head to the link in the show notes now and grab yourself a copy. You are going to be so ahead of the game.

Speaker: All right. So I've told you what a lawyer typically needs you to provide in advance of the meeting. And you also want to be very clear about the questions, concerns and goals you have for the meeting and the answers you need from the meeting.

Speaker: Oh no, you're thinking she's going to ask me to write another list. No, I'm not going to ask you to write another list, but it is helpful to have some of your main questions written down so that you don't do what we all do, which is remember a question you needed to ask the moment you are leaving the meeting.

Speaker: So okay, there's a bit more homework. If you've already given some details about your family, financials and assets to the lawyer before the meeting, or maybe you've gone through the separation checklist, the chances are the lawyer has some ideas about what you need to know and will guide you through the key things without you having to remember all the details.

Speaker: For example, if you have children, you probably want to know about how to set up a formal parenting schedule. If you own a house, you might want to know if you have to sell it or if there are any other options for staying in the house.

Speaker: These are the obvious ones and they will be so real for you in these moments that you are not likely to forget them. Those are the big questions. And because we're so focused on getting answers to those, it's easy to forget to bring ourselves back to our list of needs and expectations that we discussed at the beginning of the episode and get the practical questions out of the way that will make sure this lawyer is a good fit.

Speaker: After all, this is our main goal past getting this initial advice. Don't worry, I'm here to remind you of those extras so that you don't have to think about them when you're looking for the bigger answers.

Speaker: Again, timelines. What kind of a timeline can you expect? How soon can you get work started on your file? These are questions you want to ask. You want to make sure that you are aware of the lawyer's caseload and make sure those timelines work for you.

Speaker: especially if you haven't already teased this out at the booking stage. You also want to know how the fees work. Family lawyers typically work on an hourly rate basis and some offer flat fees for certain types of work, like drafting a marriage agreement, for example.

Speaker: But you need to know your lawyer's hourly rate, how and when invoices are provided to you, and if there are any other fees, like file opening fees, which most firms charge for the administrative side of opening a file for you.

Speaker: Earlier I said I would come back to discussing junior lawyers. And this is when to ask the junior lawyer about whether they're working closely with any senior lawyers. You know, if they trained primarily in this practice area and whether they're managing their own files.

Speaker: This isn't an interrogation, but it's helpful to know. The benefit of a junior lawyer can be that you are paying a lower fee, but getting the expertise of a team. You may also want to ask the lawyer if they have legal assistants and paralegals working with them.

Speaker: And if so, do these staff members bill for their time spent working on your file? Firms will not charge you for their legal assistants doing basic admin work like emails or appointment bookings, talking to you briefly about those things.

Speaker: But some firms will charge you for work that paralegals do on your file if it's for something like drafting a court document. And this can be a great thing because if the paralegal is doing some of that initial drafting, you're not paying for the lawyer to do that initial drafting. So it can be more affordable to have a paralegal who can step in and assist.

Speaker: Finally, you want to know what a good overall guess would be about how much your whole file is going to cost to resolve. And this is a very tricky question and I will say i don't always love being asked it because until you started working on a file as the lawyer, it's really hard to know what the issues are going to be on a grander scale and how much work it's going to be to get you to where you need to go.

Speaker: it can be unclear. But we can give you a reasonable ballpark and I'm always happy to try and estimate how things are going to look. Now, if you're worried about nervous and showing up for the meeting, whether it's in person or over Zoom, that is so understandable.

Speaker: Show up in the way that makes you feel the most comfortable. This isn't the time for errors and graces. You need to feel like you can speak up for yourself and let the lawyer know what you need help with. I think that winds up our question number two, which is how do I come prepared for the meeting and how do I get the most value out of the meeting?

Speaker: So the last and final question we are going to answer today is, what can I expect from the first meeting with the lawyer? You've shown up, you've come prepared, but what actually happens at the meeting?

Speaker: Great question. Well, other than what we've already discussed about the content of the meeting, you can expect a conversation. As your lawyer, i give you the opportunity from the outset to give me an update on how things are going.

Speaker: It may have been a few weeks or so since you booked your appointment and sent in any info, and I have a series of questions I will have prepared for you based on what you have told me about yourself before the meeting.

Speaker: And depending on how the conversation is going, I will guide you through the topics that you need answers to and then open up the floor for you to ask anything else that comes to mind. or perhaps anything left on your list.

Speaker: And remember, no matter who you are meeting with, there is no obligation whatsoever after your meeting for you to work with that lawyer if you do not feel like it was the right fit.

Speaker: And you'll know. You can take all of the information you have learned, pay for your meeting unless it was free, and move on for a second opinion. Do not feel any pressure in this moment.

Speaker: If you need time to think about the options the lawyer has given you, tell them you're going to sleep on it. That is fine. I personally would have way rather you do that and come back to me with the conviction that you are ready to go than feel like you need to jump into things on the spot.

Speaker: And you know what, if you feel completely ready to go after meeting with your new lawyer, then the next thing you'll be asked to do is finalize the terms of the agreement between you. So you have to sign what we call a retainer agreement.

Speaker: This is an agreement that is the contract that represents the lawyer's obligations to you. So you know what I'm going to say next? Read it. Read it with the lawyer or at least make sure that you come back and go through it with them before you sign.

Speaker: It is the whole gambit of all of the things regarding the services your lawyer is offering to you. Their hourly rate, any of those fees I was talking about, and your rights to end the agreement if things are not working out.

Speaker: So this is not a drill. I know you have perhaps just spent an hour pouring your heart out to a stranger and maybe you cannot fathom looking at a contract right now. Tell the nice stranger it was great to meet them and that you need time to go away and read the agreement and that you will come back to them with questions before signing it or however you wish to say it.

Speaker: As lawyers, we are there to assist you. I speak only for myself here, but there's nothing about my first meeting with you if you are a prospective client of mine that means I need you to sign the retainer agreement with me in that very moment.

Speaker: Again, the retainer agreement will set out fees. There will also be options for payment. The most common is that the lawyer will ask you to give them a retainer.

Speaker: Now I know this is just to confuse you, but a retainer is different from a retainer agreement. The retainer represents the funds you agree to pay the lawyer upfront so that they can get working on your file.

Speaker: These funds are held in a separate account at the firm and they are not used for anything until you have been given an invoice for work that has been completed. You have the time to review the invoice and then the funds are transferred and used to pay down your account.

Speaker: I discuss retainers with client in the initial meeting and give a quote and as part of the retainer agreement, this retainer amount is written into the agreement. Once you've reviewed and signed it and provided the funds, then I start work on your file.

Speaker: Now if you can't afford to pay the retainer upfront, lots of firms offer other options, for example, to pay by credit card or to sign a monthly payment plan. Don't panic.

Speaker: This is the time to be very honest about what you can afford.

Speaker: Congratulations again, everyone. We have gone through quite a lot of content today. You have learned how to scope out a lawyer who is the right fit for you. You're going to grab those referrals, write a brief list of your needs and expectations, and research the names and firms as much as you need to so that you feel confident.

Speaker: You learn some questions to ask before meeting the lawyer to make sure right off the bat you are not wasting your time filling out those questionnaires for a lawyer who is then way too busy to help.

Speaker: Secondly, you have an idea of what you need to gather to be prepared for that first meeting, including providing whatever information you can about your situation to the lawyer before the meeting and showing up prepared, confident, and ready to get the most value.

Speaker: Don't forget, i have prepared a free resource for you, the separation checklist. You can find the link to the checklist in the show notes and pull that up right away free.

Speaker: three Finally, we also discussed what you can expect from the first meeting, including how these meetings usually go and that there is no obligation for you to sign up right away without time to think or breathe.

Speaker: You made it. I really do hope you feel a little bit less bewildered about these first steps towards getting that much needed closure you deserve. The way I see it, there are so many emotional holdbacks to why we pause before looking for legal help that your energy should go towards processing these and checking in with yourself rather than trying to figure out the things that just feel like a bunch of no good procedural roadblocks.

Speaker: We have covered many of these roadblocks today so they are well out of the way and you can focus on getting to that first meeting. With that being said, i think that's all the real talk we have time for in this episode.

Speaker: But before I go, i have that very important question to ask you. Are you ready to hit reset? If so, subscribe today, never miss an episode and let's build a life that aligns with your true goals and values.

Speaker: Our paths don't define us. Hit that subscribe button, visit my website at agosling.ca and follow me on social media for more tips and updates. I look forward to seeing you next time.