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Ep 16. A Catalyst Shaping the Future of Sustainable and Ethical Fabric with Nina Marenzi and Amanda Johnston
254 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of No Ordinary Cloth, I sit down with Nina and Amanda, the brilliant minds behind the Future Fabrics Expo, to dive deep into how they’re revolutionising the textile and fashion industries through an expo that drives sustainability and innovation. The Future Fabrics Expo has become a key platform in the industry, showcasing thousands of sustainable materials and driving discussions around environmental responsibility, circularity, and collaboration across disciplines to drive the change we want to see in the Fashion and Textile industry.
We explore the growing need for materials that have a positive impact on both the planet and the people working in the supply chain, and discuss how interdisciplinary collaboration is essential to scaling these innovations. Additionally, we take a hard look at the issue of overproduction and how brands need to rethink their business models to prioritise circularity and reduce waste.
Whether you’re a designer, innovator, or sustainability advocate, this episode is packed with insights about the future of sustainable fabrics and why the Future Fabrics Expo is a must-attend event for anyone in the fashion, textile, home and interiors industry.
Key Takeaways:
- The Future Fabrics Expo is not just about showcasing eco-friendly materials—it’s about finding materials that have a net-positive impact on the environment and communities.
- Cross-industry collaboration is vital for the future of fashion. Partnerships between designers, scientists, and manufacturers are driving textile innovations forward.
- The fashion industry must address overproduction and overconsumption by adopting circular business models and focusing on sustainable growth.
Highlights:
- The origins of the Future Fabrics Expo and how it grew into one of the most anticipated events in the sustainable fashion calendar.
- Why materials with regenerative qualities are crucial for the future of the textile industry.
- The role of collaboration between fashion designers, material scientists, and sustainability experts in creating scalable solutions.
- The challenges and opportunities that come with shifting toward more sustainable practices in fashion, including circularity and on-demand manufacturing.
- A preview of what to expect at the Future Fabrics Expo in New York, happening on November 19th and 20th, 2024.
- Hear from attendees and exhibitors about their experience at the Future Fabrics Expo London 2024
Join me on my journey to craft the future of this podcast. I would love to hear your feedback and ideas for the podcast. Get in touch with me here: Contact me
The Sustainable Angle: Website I Linkedin I Instagram
Future Fabrics Expo NYC Edition, November 19 - 20th, 2024. Register here
Seminar Series 2024: Listen here
No Ordinary Cloth: Website I Linkedin I Instagram I Buy me a coffee
Cover art: Photo by Siora, Photography on Unsplash
Music: Inspired Ambient, Orchestraman
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Focus
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome back to the No Ordinary Cloth podcast, where we stitch together a rich tapestry of textile innovations, one episode at a time. I'm your host Millie Tarakin, a textile innovator and researcher. Join me today for a glimpse into the future of textiles as we speak with industry experts and academics who are radically transforming the very way we think about make and remake textiles.
00:00:26
Speaker
But before we dive into today's fascinating episode, I have a little announcement to make that could help shape the future of the No Ordinary Cloud podcast.
Podcast Growth and Future Plans
00:00:34
Speaker
I was recently selected into the Plus X Innovation pre-accelerator program here in Brighton, UK. I was really excited about this because it gives me a chance to reflect on the podcast and its future.
00:00:45
Speaker
So I started this podcast last year, so that's exactly a year ago actually. And my aim was to speak with inspiring creators and publish 12 episodes in a year. Now, 15 episodes later, I've had an incredible journey with this show and it has gone far beyond what I ever imagined.
00:01:03
Speaker
All the feedback I've got so far has been so encouraging. I feel like I've just started scratching the surface. There are so many stories and inspirations and insights I want to bring through this show. So this program is giving me the time to pause and reflect, step back and think about how I can serve you more and serve you better.
00:01:21
Speaker
But to do this, I need you. Yes, you. Your voice, your ideas, your passion for textiles and innovation are the threads that truly make this podcast unique. Whether you're a loyal listener or maybe you've just discovered us, your input means the world to me. I want to hear what topics spark your curiosity and what gifts inspire you, what burning questions about textile innovation keep you up at night.
00:01:46
Speaker
I want to hear it all. So here's how to be part of this journey with me. Visit www.knowordinarycloths.com. That's our website. Fill out the contact form and I'll reach out to you to set up a call for a quick chat. It's your chance to influence the content you love and shape the discussions that are transforming the textile industry.
00:02:05
Speaker
I know your time is precious, but if no ordinary cloth has ever sparked your imagination, now's your chance to give back a little and help us move forward. I would love to have you as part of this process, helping to craft the future of this show. So please do take a minute to connect with me. The link of the website is in the show notes below. Do get in touch. Let's craft this show together.
00:02:27
Speaker
All right, now for the episode you tuned in for. This is a great one. We're going to go behind the scenes and dive deep into the Future Fabrics Expo, an annual event that has become the place to be if you want to learn about and source sustainably and responsibly produced textiles for the fashion and textile industry.
00:02:47
Speaker
We have with us Nina Marenzi, the founder and director of the Sustainable Angle and Future Fabrics Expo, and Amanda Johnston, the curator of the Future Fabrics Expo and an associate professor at the London College of Fashion in the UK. Nina and Amanda are the visionaries behind Future Fabric Expo.
Future Fabrics Expo Overview
00:03:05
Speaker
which started in 2011 with just 400 fabric samples and have now grown to a thoughtfully curated showcase of over 10,000 commercially available sustainable materials for fashion, home and interiors, packaging and footwear.
00:03:22
Speaker
Here Nina and Amanda share about the expo's origin and its evolution over the last 14 years and its crucial and influential role in advancing sustainability in textile and fashion. They share how they bring the show to life each year, they give us a peek into future material trends
00:03:40
Speaker
as well as their vision for the expo that has grown exponentially with thousands of visitors attending, including designers, brands, startups, investors, media, policymakers, artists, manufacturers, and many more. I've great news for our listeners in the US. The Future Fabric Expo is coming to New York this November. That's right. If you are at the Big Apple,
00:04:05
Speaker
on November 19th and 20th, clear up your calendar because this is the event you want to be attending. I can guarantee that you will be learning a lot and be inspired by all that you see in here at the Future Fabrics Expo 2024 New York Edition. This Expo is a playground for your creativity, but don't just take my word for it,
00:04:27
Speaker
Stay to the end of this episode to hear from visitors and exhibitors from the London Expo this year to get a feel of their experience and takeaways from the event. So now let's join our guests. Hi Nina and Amanda, it is an absolute pleasure to have you both here today. I'm really looking forward to the discussions that we have about the Future Fabrics Expo and the overall themes of fashion and textile sustainability.
00:04:52
Speaker
The Expo has become such a key event in the sustainability textile and fashion calendar today. You know, everyone I know in London is there and wants to be there every June. It's something I look forward to and I've had a fabulous time just learning and being inspired at the event, but also great opportunity to network and catch up with a lot of all friends and colleagues from the industry. I think we all kind of gather and descend at the event every year.
00:05:17
Speaker
It's a big event, but it's something that also feels quite warm and welcoming and it's not daunting. I always walk away just feeling truly inspired and full of ideas and possibilities. So now let's jump right in to learn more about Future Fabric's Expo. Nina, the Expo was your brainchild and I think this is the 14th year that you're running it. Is that right?
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, the first one took place in 2011. We haven't had one every year. There's COVID and so on, but yeah, roughly about definitely over a dozen additions. So it's been it's been a long time developing, but
00:05:55
Speaker
I would say it's a steady process of growth and excitement and definitely a lot still ahead of us. We have quite a global audience. So now everyone might be familiar with Future Fabrics Expo. Could you just start with telling us what it is and what your vision was when you first set it up? Sure. Thank you with pleasure. It is a showcase which is made up of thousands and thousands of materials with a lower environmental impact. That's how we started.
00:06:24
Speaker
The backbone of it has always been educational information, which is very important to add to the descriptions of the materials, but also
00:06:33
Speaker
background information in general on sustainability and fashion and the problems that we have with the textile supply chain that was always shown throughout. But importantly, we have shifted over those 14 years towards not just showing materials with a lower environmental impact, but actually focusing also on emphasizing those that have a positive impact, not just on the planet, but also on people.
00:06:57
Speaker
And so to really emphasize what actually the fashion supply chain and fashion in general can add and contribute to an improvement of people who work in it, but also in general to restoring and regenerating the environment. So that's sort of a transition that I guess not just us are going through, but throughout, I would say the sort of the zeitgeist is exactly in that. And that's what we try to do.
00:07:23
Speaker
What was the disconnect that you saw? What was the gap that you spotted and that inspired you to start the expo? Yeah, so the initial point of the starting point really was a frustration of knowing that there are so many brilliant alternatives to the conventional polluting textiles.
00:07:43
Speaker
that weren't really shown at the main trade fairs and weren't well known by the designers and fashion professionals. And yet knowing that so many of these mills and sort of pioneering textile manufacturers and anybody in the supply chain, there were many points, fantastic improvements and revolutionary technologies that resulted in wonderful, high qualitative textiles. And they were just not really
00:08:11
Speaker
shown at those trade fairs and needed to be shown in a very easily accessible central sourcing platform and that knowing that it existed was very frustrating to see that they were not really shown in the places where the typical sourcing person in an insider fashion brand would go to and to create then a central sourcing platform made a lot of sense and pulling together the best of the best of these
00:08:38
Speaker
you have to imagine this was 2011 when the first one took place but in the lead up to that there were some small affairs that were perhaps very much focused on fair trade, organic cottons and so on and you wouldn't necessarily have a curation of the best from a quality but also from an aesthetic point of view
00:08:58
Speaker
And so putting them all together really elevated the overall perception of what potential there actually is and how we can all move to a responsible future of the fashion industry. So that was sort of the starting point.
00:09:11
Speaker
And what were some of the early challenges that you faced? Cause today is greatly anticipated and well attended events by brands and designers, investors, media, everyone's there, everyone wants to be there. But I'm guessing when you started, that was not the case. And how did you get people on board, including the support to run the event, the materials, how did you source that initially?
Expo Challenges and Expansion
00:09:33
Speaker
I think ever since the first one took place in 2011, when Amanda and I did the first export together, we would have never thought that we would have so much traction. You can tell when people walked in the genuine curiosity that they had and element of surprise and how they left really inspired, informed and sort of ready to take action within their own little world. And that is, of course, fundamental.
00:09:59
Speaker
inspire somebody and it means also they have to be equipped with the right information and the background to it because there's nothing worse than coming away from a place like the Expo in the early days and you would enter into your together with your peers and in your team meetings let's say and then
00:10:16
Speaker
you know, you present what you might have seen and then somebody comes with a very critical sort of attitude and says, oh, well, you know, what is that? And it's probably, you know, you know, ask a lot of questions that you can then answer. So this messenger that comes is sort of immediately disarmed and maybe even made feel silly or overly idealistic or whatever it is. So
00:10:35
Speaker
I think in the early days, we would have never thought that people leave like that and really carried us forward into the brands and that our sort of formula worked. And so we really had traction quite quickly. And initially to your question, we got the people to attend and support. A lot of it has to do with, I'd say, the initial connections that
00:10:56
Speaker
We had from doing a lot of research, like I was saying before, there's a lot of research and through that I met a lot of people and also a lot of sort of organic connections I had. Personally, having met a lot of fashion professionals and people in the creative world.
00:11:12
Speaker
artists and so on but also of course the academic placement that we were in and Amanda was a lecturer and had therefore also connections through London College of Fashion where she was a lecturer and one of the initial supporters that I had was Delis Williams at the Centre for Sustainable Fashion who introduced me to Amanda. So
00:11:30
Speaker
We had some critical mass, let's say, small, selective, really good people, and that helped them. We just grew it organically from that point onward. It was very much a sort of a labor of love that clearly hit the zeitgeist at some point. But I would say that having corporate partnerships, which only sort of came five years in,
00:11:53
Speaker
That really then helped us to grow it further and go to having the ability to go to bigger spaces and rent a venue that could accommodate so many interested visitors and also having exhibitors who wanted a proper stand and exhibit a booth and this wasn't available.
00:12:12
Speaker
at the beginning when we worked on a collection of fashion in a relatively small room. So it really is nice to see how it grew organically. Absolutely, I think that point that Nina just made about the zeitgeist is critical because we were on a sort of upward kind of trajectory and Nina and I kept saying to
00:12:33
Speaker
the tipping point's going to come this year. Tipping point's going to come, it's going to come, it's going to come, it's going to be this year. Because you could feel it, actually. If you're, you know, I was immersed both in education and I was trained as a designer. So I kind of got this fact, and obviously with the wonderful Delis Williams, head of the Centre for Sustainable Fashion, you could feel it from her organisation, which was growing as well.
00:12:56
Speaker
So we were on this little upward, up the hill, little trek, growing, growing year on year and feeling that that tipping point was about to come and you have to be attuned to this. Everybody in fashion knows you have to have your antennae up. It's kind of like they start to get twitchy after a while. And we saw that tipping point come in 2020, our expo in 2020, and then, bam, COVID hit.
00:13:23
Speaker
because that was we literally had cues around the block at the Expo. We couldn't let everybody it was like a nightclub. Yeah. And that's the point at which we went, okay, all this work that we could feel that was it was coming. And then anyway, as Nina said that that growing that uphill trajectory, obviously COVID came, but funnily enough, we were busier than we'd
00:13:48
Speaker
ever been when COVID hit and we just did not expect that. So that was the function of the fashion industry waking up, you know? And then obviously you've been following us for a while. Yeah, there's such a pull from the market, isn't it? You weren't trying to now push this idea over as you did when you started, but people were coming to you because the brands had to get on board with this for various reasons.
00:14:13
Speaker
So, Amanda, you've been involved in the curation of the collections. Yes. And I'm sure you get thousands of applications of samples of materials every day. What is the process of selection and what's the criteria for selection? Well, the criteria we developed with Delos' department actually, and to determine a framework actually, we call it the indicative criteria, which are all about really
00:14:38
Speaker
Honing how we as an organization see what Nina referred to as positive materials, not just ones that are less damaging, although we started with those, but we are getting towards wanting to really focus on those materials that have a demonstrable positive impact under a range of indicative criteria, obviously, you know, incorporating
00:15:03
Speaker
biodiversity, water waste and human issues and animal ethics as well. So these are the sort of questions that we ask or our team got a brilliant team who manage the influx of all the materials
00:15:19
Speaker
And then they're on calls directly with all of our suppliers, really kind of getting down to the nitty gritty of where they're getting materials from, how they are processing them and actually making them. So there's a real sort of trust relationship there in communication with the suppliers that we work with.
00:15:38
Speaker
And so our team is just excellent in that. So yeah, you're right. We're constantly getting materials in, bringing all that information that you've seen transparently there on the backs of the cards, which links also to our virtual expo on the website to make sourcing as transparent and easy as possible and as inspirational as possible for those sourcing teams that Nina was talking about. So yeah, it's an ongoing rolling process.
00:16:05
Speaker
And how do people apply? Because I can imagine a lot of these listeners are people creating new materials. So where did they go? Well, it's not really so much of an apply, although we're getting more of that now. We used to, the team would go out to various trade shows and find those suppliers that had high standards and were doing good things, making responsible materials in all different categories.
00:16:29
Speaker
Now we are, as you're saying, having people coming to us going, hey, how do we get in? And it's through those relationships, as we said before, you know, the team getting on calls with them, finding out exactly what this material is, where does it come from, all of those questions.
00:16:47
Speaker
And obviously a lot of them, as you know, are also assured by globally recognised certifications. But even for those that aren't, we've got a whole sort of due diligence process before a supplier comes to us. It's quite full on the process. This is an event that happens usually every summer in London in June and then around November in New York. When did you expand to New York? It was last year.
00:17:14
Speaker
We actually, when Amanda was referring to 2020 being our busiest and most insane with all that traction in January 2020, that's when we had decided to move to a venue in New York for July. And then of course, literally a few weeks later, it was clear that COVID
00:17:34
Speaker
lockdowns coming, etc. So we had to postpone. And then, you know, it took a bit of time for us to recover as an organization after COVID, being a physical showcase without much support from government, etc. That was not easy. And keeping the team together was, of course, priority. So we managed that. But anyway, it took a bit of time. So we only managed to really find the courage, I'd say, last year.
00:18:02
Speaker
And again, we started organically. We didn't want to make a big splash and just, you know, be arrogant and say, oh, we can do this in London. We're going to do a big time in New York. We sort of felt, let's, you know, let's get the read, read the room and feel over there. But again, we had quite a bit of good connections from years before engaging, especially with the CFDA and having a few important people there who were on the same kind of riding the same wave. And so
00:18:30
Speaker
New York then made a lot of sense for last year and it worked really well and so now this time we're going to be in a bigger venue. Again in the garment district it's the 19th to the 20th of November. We're taking a lot of the London exhibitors of the expo over to New York so that's mainly been our driving force actually for them they were asking us can you please do something like this in New York because it's desperately needed so that's
00:18:55
Speaker
Basically why we then felt, okay, we can... Yeah, that's a good sign. And what are some of the highlights that visitors can look forward to at the New York Expo? I would say, of course, just the simple fact that we have thousands of materials that we are bringing along is always fabulous. It's the formula that we have to make it as easy as possible to source.
00:19:18
Speaker
these materials, and then of course an attraction is always the innovation hub. No doubt, we will also, for the first time actually in New York, we will have a seminar program, not as extensive and as big as in London, but we will have a few seminar panels each day. And I would say what a lot of people find interesting is the curated area of textiles that we have. So we've got exhibitor stands with fantastic exhibitors coming along in their own stand.
00:19:48
Speaker
But also we have a curated section that we bring along of thousands of materials that we basically handpick in different categories of fibers. And they are clearly signposted, whether that is cottons or whether that is fibers made from, you know, mainly circularity, perhaps the specifics recycled materials, or perhaps there is something to do with performance and sports. So we kind of make it very easy for the visitor to find what they're looking for.
00:20:18
Speaker
And so the curated areas is very often very popular because it also means that every single material that we are bringing and showing in that area actually has a descriptor card attached to it and it explains why is this material more responsibly produced, who is the supplier, so you can
00:20:36
Speaker
easily find all the information that you need. You have a QR code, which leads you directly to our online resource, the Future Fabrics Virtual Expo. So there's a lot of sort of help to get the visitor to have a great sourcing experience.
00:20:49
Speaker
And this is something I really love because you make it so easy for a designer to come in and make that switch because you've provided them with a huge amount of information and it's a supplier who will be able to scale up, right? These are not all people who are making small swatches. These are actually solutions that they can order as they would order other textiles. So that's really critical, I think. Yeah.
00:21:11
Speaker
Apart from that, everyone absolutely loves the innovation table that you have in the middle of the hall as well, with all kinds of weird and wonderful materials. What recent trends have you noticed, Amanda, on the table? What's going on there? What can you expect there? That is growing exponentially. As you have observed, Millie, I think it was the first innovation exhibits that I did. I think it was 2017 and it's
00:21:40
Speaker
if I remember rightly, there were eight exhibits and six of those were from graduate projects from UAL because of course that's where the first like seeding of, you know, like real ingenuity kind of comes out of study and awareness. So that was great. And then after that, this year we showcased, I think around 70 innovations from everything, as you know, from either super small startups
00:22:09
Speaker
And those that are on the way might be into their third round of investment, for example. They might be just on the cusp of going commercial, but we feel it's really, really important to show I've never seen anything like the amount of material ingenuity in the past three years ever. And I've been teaching, I've been in academia for over 20 years, right? So it's massively exciting to me. And I know it's going to be to visitors that come in New York as well.
00:22:36
Speaker
because we will have a feast of innovations. When you ask about trends, we're trying to showcase a really broad smorgasbord of everything in all different material categories. So it spans everything from ingenuity and circularity,
00:22:52
Speaker
to bio-fabricated the weird and wonderful, obviously that the press love, and let's face it, everybody gets captivated by a new material story. But without, you know, sort of going, oh, they're weird for the sake of weird. No, they're not. They are different because they're born out of a realisation that we can't make stuff in the same way as we used to. So this driving force is not to be weird or wacky.
00:23:18
Speaker
it's more about really looking at nature. What does nature do? Where do those materials come from? And where are they going? And what inputs and outputs are created in the processing of them? You know, it's actually real material intelligence. That's really what's exciting to me. Yes, visually, they're like, whoa, you want to get stuck in. You want to touch, you feel, because they're so awe-inspiring. But actually look at
00:23:44
Speaker
the descriptions on the cards and what's being said about why that material was conceived in that way. And some of them may seem somewhat too futuristic, but what we've seen in our experience since tracking material innovation
00:24:00
Speaker
since actually before 2017, but anyway, is that the development process is being sped up. So the rush to the brands being, I want it, I need it, we need it to fulfill our sustainability strategies, let's give it some support. And the investment community, you've never seen anything like the amount of investment that is attracted towards new materials.
00:24:23
Speaker
And we're seeing this in lots of other industries as well, but fashion with its sort of me too, I need it now kind of thing is becoming, you know, there's that wake up and we are seeing some innovation. Obviously we've seen a couple of favours, but you know, that's part of it. Not everything is going to win, but it's exciting to see the plethora of, you've probably noticed this, the realisation that
00:24:48
Speaker
you know, leather is just such a filthy, filthy business unless it's done best, best, best practice. What can we use in its place? And what's happening is a spectrum of material alternatives in this particular category. So that's hugely on fire at the moment in attracting masses of investment, whether it's mycelium, whether it's beer protein, whether it's algae, whether it doesn't matter, it's
00:25:13
Speaker
They're all looking to try and crack the durable material space. And then we're seeing amazing things in dyes. So I would say that what most people don't realize is most of our modern dyes are made from petrochemicals. We're very switched on to, oh my God, polyester is petrochemical.
00:25:29
Speaker
We're not so switched on to the impacts around dyes, but that's really changing. So we're seeing a lot of innovation in that area, really exciting. And obviously in circularity, just new ways of using materials, you know, food, agricultural waste, you know, just real ingenuity. The amount of ingenuity is just, you know, on fire at the moment. It's very exciting. I think one thing to add is also that we are really creating new material categories.
00:25:59
Speaker
So it's not just, let's find a new leather alternative. We're actually coming up with entirely new opportunities that weren't really there before. And that's something that people don't quite realize how many new avenues some of these materials are opening. And that's very exciting. And that's not just for fashion. Some of these materials are also good for automotive industries, for home and interiors. So that's why it is a very exciting
00:26:29
Speaker
area for sure. Oh, this is so my cup of tea, honestly. Text art materials is what I live for. Would you have any stories of companies who might've started on the innovation table and then, you know, reach that point where they're scaling up and they have a little booth of their own and exhibiting standing alone, you know, in the big old mall? Oh, absolutely. A wonderful one because, you know, it wasn't that long ago that Suzanne Lee, who founded BioFabricate,
00:26:56
Speaker
who, you know, were focused only on biofabricated materials, but, you know, we chucked them quite a lot. And she was observing that actually in the 20th century, in order to get an innovation from R&D through to commercial, you know, validity was taking like 50 or 60 years.
00:27:13
Speaker
What we've seen now is they're hopping off the innovation table quite quickly. And a beautiful example of that. We like them very much because, you know, they're London based, a great couple of guys tinkering away in biotech spotted a waste stream, which was the beer, which is what you're left with when you process beer to the grain after fermentation.
00:27:36
Speaker
after fermentation you're left with this mash which normally goes I think to animal feed or whatever. They realized it's really protein rich and they created a leather alternative with this and it's the only one that I know of that's created from this grain that the wheat grain from the
00:27:55
Speaker
be a mash as they call it. We showed them for the first time two years ago on the innovation table and they're now one of our small exhibitors so and they've just gone into their third investment round so it's been literally within three years. I mean that's extraordinarily and that's a testament I think to the excitement around brands going oh my god what have you got what's it made of can I test it let me try it and then the investment community becoming excited by this
00:28:24
Speaker
waste stream, and it's a local, you know, a local waste stream as well. And they can actually pivot. So I understand two different different waste streams. So they're looking at, Oh, what's the waste from whiskey, for example, not just beer. And, and in a beauty, another part of the story, which I really love is they're actually in the buildings that used to house the leather industry by the tent. So like this whole converted buildings, which are now all sort of tech companies, they sit in that
00:28:52
Speaker
And it's that kind of really nice, okay, this is the future of. To see them, to see them grow like that so quickly has been amazing. And to feel like you've played a part in that as well as an organization, you know, and as a platform.
00:29:07
Speaker
You're right. There are some really, really fascinating materials that are being made from byproducts, feedstock, all of that, everything from waste, garden waste, potato harvest waste, banana plant. There's so much going on in that. It's quite hard to keep up with it because every day you have something new.
00:29:25
Speaker
How do you see these next gen materials as they've been kind of labeled now? How do you see them evolving and growing to meet the supply chain demands? Cause I think there was a lot of discussion at the seminar, especially brands are very interested, but they're like, this is not fast enough. Of course in fashion, nothing is fast enough. How do we get this into the supply chain and actually make a real impact, not just do little samples and little small collections, but really expand that to have the impact we want to see.
Sustainable Innovation and Market Entry
00:29:56
Speaker
I'm sure Amanda also has answers to that. But I would just say one of the things that I think is so interesting is when you're looking at industries such as the food industry and sort of agriculture industry tapping into some of the waste that occurs there. So typically art or that Amanda mentioned is a good one.
00:30:15
Speaker
And there's lots of those around and there's huge potential, untapped potential. And once that's properly understood, there could be so many cross sector fertile ideas coming through. And that could then go quite quickly because there is already an existing industry in the food side.
00:30:34
Speaker
textile, so you just need to combine them. So you're not reinventing a whole new material category per se. So I think there's a lot of potential there. And that's also where people say, oh, well, you know, how are we ever going to get into a sort of a sustainable era? If, you know, we have a limited amount of fertile soil that needs to be eventually with population growth that needs to go to food production rather than bring cotton on it, et cetera.
00:31:01
Speaker
So I think that is a huge area of growth and just a lot of the solutions will come from those, I would say. And in terms of your question to how can these things come more quickly to market and scale, et cetera, as we know, you know, we do need the finance industry to really step in, understand the potential and the opportunities and deploy that capital and understand the opportunities
00:31:29
Speaker
which I think there is still a bit of a misunderstanding as to, you know, sustainability and fashion day immediately. I mean, when I say they, sort of the typical gray suits that, you know, have portfolios to allocate money, I would say, you know, there's a misunderstanding of thinking, oh, we're investing in the next Pangaea. That's not what it's about. There's a misunderstanding of what this sort of
00:31:51
Speaker
supply chain really holds and how complex it is and all the different steps in it and at each step of the supply chain you have a myriad of problems from an environmental but also social point of view and all of these improvements and all of these innovations, not just the fibres but also the productions and manufacturing. There are so many opportunities to invest and that still is a little bit under the radar. It's clearly a growing interest but
00:32:17
Speaker
I think that's one problem. And the other one is that the brands, you know, for them, it's a new thing, investing into innovations and so on. That's not necessarily how a fashion brand would operate. So there's a new thing and new requirements on them. But it's of course essential, especially when you have new
00:32:36
Speaker
material categories or just generally new fibers and fabrics, you do need to help those newer companies by saying, okay, we guarantee a certain amount of volume that we're buying every year. It's the sort of offtake agreements that you have. And if you have a brand that commits to that, especially if it's a larger one, that assures the investor that it takes some of the risk away. And those things are crucial, but they take time and
00:33:02
Speaker
all of that is relatively new and of course we all are under time pressure to meeting the reduction targets by 2030 so you know there's there's a lot going on in that space but it's yeah it's still too slow for sure. Amanda I'm sure you've got some
00:33:18
Speaker
I mean, I just know, I know how fashion works. And I think one of the sticking points is there's an eagerness for, oh, the next thing and the novelty that we spoke about that excites everybody when they see those amazing innovation tables. And it's all like, oh, I want it now. Nina's quite right. There is this because of the way the fashion industry is set up, that it's not used to the idea that actually you've got to invest
00:33:47
Speaker
time, as well as the investment, as Nina said, with the offtake agreements, etc. That's needed. But also just the time to get a new material to work. And the fashion is not they want everything now and quick, quick, quick, quick. So it's like getting them to rethink and that can often be they'll go we tried that didn't work. And I'm like, Yeah, but did you really invest
00:34:09
Speaker
the time in testing properly and making sure you've gone through the really, really thought about it and speak to the innovator, work with the innovator. How can you work together? So all of these collaborative relationships that we keep saying, oh, we have to collaborate, but actually,
00:34:27
Speaker
It's not easy. It requires investment. It requires an investment of time to really see it as a proper partnership and not just go, didn't like the first iteration of your material, forget it. They need to step out of that expectation. You're not going to swap a leather alternative out for a genuine leather skin. They don't do the same thing.
00:34:50
Speaker
They do other beautiful things. They will deliver different properties, but you need to be in a discovery with the designer, the product developers, the manufacturing systems critically, because those are really antiquated. So it takes a complete reframing of the relationship between a supplier, if we say that's the innovator, and
00:35:17
Speaker
a brand in order to deliver something new. So that sounds very like a wish, but it's the only way things are really going to work. You know, these new things is that is to have that commitment. And a lot of these innovations actually are also happening in biochemistry labs and material science labs and nanotech labs.
00:35:38
Speaker
And they don't really know anything about textiles in the end. They've made a fabric, but what does the industry need? What are the challenges of the supply chain? They don't understand. So they really crave for those very strong partnerships with brands. So that's really what's going to make it work.
00:35:55
Speaker
So when we talk about the impact of the fashion and textile industry on our planet, we tend to focus a lot on the solution being sustainable materials to replace existing materials like cotton and polyester with new materials that we're coming up with. Great, great way to move forward. But I feel there needs to be also a radically rethink the volumes that are produced. I think of new models, maybe of Onderbahn manufacturing, making something once someone buys it.
00:36:23
Speaker
We have technology that enables us to do that now, but how do we get brands to go beyond just swapping materials out, but still making 10,000 of the same things? Have you had any insights or discussions with brands about this?
00:36:38
Speaker
Oh, it's a magic magic wand situation. Nina, Nina, right? Well, you know, that's where circularity comes in, right? Yes. And also, we know that there is a huge problem with, for example, return garments or slightly damaged. So having another loop within that to making sure that you are repairing them, that you are
00:36:59
Speaker
perhaps having to reconfigure them slightly, rather than just not selling them and dumping them elsewhere. I think that's something that is still, we'll see some interesting new ideas coming through to solve these problems. A lot of them also have to do with logistics, of course. So I would say that's definitely something to get excited about, but ultimately you're right. I mean, they're over
00:37:26
Speaker
production and overconsumption still is a huge issue. So it's also coming down to a cultural approach. It's also coming down to figuring out what to do with garment workers that have been trained to be in this sort of overproduction industry. How are they going to be supported to find a new skill? If we're really talking about, yes, we're all talking about
00:37:51
Speaker
overproduction has to be reduced. What does that actually mean for the people who work in that supply chain and how are they going to be looked after and retrained? So it's a very complex problem. And so, yeah, to just think we can all just ask for reducing overproduction. It isn't that easy either, but what you were alluding to, of course, with perhaps better predictive approaches to figuring out what the customer is going to want and reacting quickly to it.
00:38:19
Speaker
rather than just producing tons of materials. So the question is, how can we really solve the issue of overproduction and then the waste that occurs? How can that loop be better close? And I do think when you're looking at the data of how much these big fashion companies take back, and a lot of it is returned or shipped back as a return, that has damage to it.
00:38:48
Speaker
it's pretty big and how can you improve that, for example. And so I think there's a lot of ways still to improve that. I do think we should definitely come back to the cultural aspect and how we are all trained to want more and to want new things. And this whole approach to having a wardrobe that you are reinventing with your own creativity rather than having to buy a full lock and not knowing how to play with items in your wardrobe. I think that is
00:39:18
Speaker
fundamental problems that the younger generation has. And that sort of mindset needs to change. And of course, it's fueled by having this enormous availability of product at all times.
00:39:31
Speaker
What are your thoughts on DPP then, the digital product passport? How much do you think that will enable both brands to rethink about their products? Cause now they have to really take responsibility and show their data and collect data, which they might not have been doing and, and, and look at it straight in black and white in front of them. And also how might that change customer behavior or will it change customer behavior having all that data shared?
00:39:57
Speaker
that it remains to be seen. It's great to watch it sort of laid out, and I don't know, you might well have seen this, the seminar, which was amazing actually at the expo, to really drill down into what's, you know, what is being actioned and what is proposed. And, you know, if they roll everything out, it's like, wow, they're even getting down to the nitty gritty of what durability means when you buy a chiffon blouse, right?
00:40:25
Speaker
not just the usual, oh, it's a pair of jeans, it's durable, whatever. All of that is super interesting. It remains to be seen when it's implemented in real life, what that actually delivers. But obviously, in the mindset within that is to do what you're saying, Millie, which is to try and get the consumer to take a breath and perceive these valuable pieces in a different way to sort of pull back
00:40:53
Speaker
from the impulse, and let's face it, consumers are being trained to rapidly consume by super cheap prices and lots and lots and lots of advertising in front of get this, get this, get this, Instagram. You know, so it's almost like to rewind that to the younger consumer, as Nina said, that's a very difficult task. But this legislation will go, I think will go some way.
00:41:20
Speaker
You know you've got to stop because you're going to get fined. You're going to find yourself out of business if you can't see a way to be creatively working in the fashion industry in a different way. The old model
00:41:39
Speaker
has gone you know we should have well and truly left that behind in the 20th century and we reached peak production and globalization and we should now be doing this but you know there aren't enough let's face it overproduction is baked into the most successful fashion brands at the moment they can't see their way out of doing business without overproduction so to get them to stop these kind of monoliths is going to be quite the thing but i think
00:42:07
Speaker
This is where the small designers, you know, the rebirth, I'm recognizing these little gaps for them and they can be nimble and they can be not so wasteful. They can be more efficient. They can actually pay attention to all of this granular requirements of the DPP that bigger fashion brands are going to find it. Like, I mean, really scary to actually align with with some of those requirements.
00:42:37
Speaker
So I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, basically. I think it comes at an interesting time where we have issues of various problems with the supply chain, given that, for example, transport is such a challenge right now from China and other countries where production hubs are, and the issue that they have, shipping that back to the consumption hubs, which is Western Europe and the States, mainly.
00:43:06
Speaker
That is a huge driver to figuring out how can we near shore move the production? What do we do with the waste? Rather than shipping that back, how can we actually do things with whatever is returned and potentially a bit damaged near where the consumption hubs are?
00:43:23
Speaker
So there's a lot of different pressures coming in at the same time since the EU supply chain logistics issues, given the problems that are happening around the Red Sea, that's still an issue that we had now for a long time.
00:43:37
Speaker
that increases prices for shipping and returns, et cetera. And then also, of course, generally, us coming closer to 2030 and those targets, but also generally the weather patterns that are so crazy at the moment. People really started to understand that this was not some lefty agenda that was hammering home the issue of climate crisis.
00:44:01
Speaker
is really real and it's hitting all of us faster than a lot of people assumed. So I think there's a lot of points and pressure points that come at the same time and DPP is definitely one of them. It does feel like sort of an influx at the moment, isn't it? Like all the pieces from various points are coming together and things are going to change and everyone's hopeful and people are getting behind the idea finally. So where do you think this industry will be in the next five to 10 years?
Environmental Challenges and Fiber Shortages
00:44:29
Speaker
From my small point of view, I would definitely say they will have huge issues with getting the right fibres that they are used to work with. In the shortage of freshwater availability, that will become much more acute. Fertile soil, soil erosion is going to be acute. The loss of topsoil, which is the part that you need to grow a lot of these plants, all of that is going to be an issue.
00:44:54
Speaker
So I think generally we are going to be forced, or these companies will be forced if they haven't done yet, to really figure out how to diversify their portfolios. This is a necessity that's going to hit them and they will realize that the longer they wait, the more expensive it will come to make changes.
00:45:12
Speaker
So I think that's one of the main things we will see. And of course for the fashion brands, I mean, it's already very difficult climate for them. Probably that does mean that there's a sort of a rethink or smartening of how their operations are going to be run. And of course, the economic climate isn't necessarily great for a lot of people still. So, you know, is expenditure is still going to be, I mean, we're seeing it slowing and slowing and slowing what people are spending on fashion. And I don't think that's necessarily going to stop.
00:45:42
Speaker
together then with the realization of you know what the impacts are of our behavior not just in what we're wearing but also generally how we are behaving. So I do think it's going to be quite a different landscape but I think to really predict is a
00:45:57
Speaker
hard one. Yeah well five to ten years that's really soon so I don't know but it kind of feels all those things that Nina was talking about yes you know that that writing's been on the wall where we're heading towards it we're in a situation in that time frame where we've got to choose between food or fibre like with the growing population as you know we're careering towards nine million people on this planet
00:46:22
Speaker
on a finite planet and this has been tried for a long time. So, you know, it feels to me like the fashion industry output is kind of like at this saturation point and at the point where as Nina said, those resources are not going to be available in the same way that we've taken for granted throughout the whole development since the industrial revolution, which is kept extracting, extracting, extracting, extracting. And that has got to reach the tipping point, right?
00:46:50
Speaker
And it feels like that's coming really soon, whether it's in five or 10 years, I don't know. But you know, we cannot go on this way. Everybody's been saying that for the longest time. But when it comes down to it, in real terms, the raw materials, the water, it's we're going to look at depletion of those resources for sure. And we certainly have been already, we have many examples around the world of that. So
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, and that's not to say that we don't steal our fashion, you know, not that we, but we need to find better creative ways of engaging with it without extracting and depleting and wasting. And it can be done. We're seeing so many interesting ideas, you know, but making them make business sense is the nut to crack, basically, in this future fashion landscape.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I think it was the CEO of Syntetica who mentioned that there's enough fabrics in the world to make all the garments that we need. We don't need to create new materials. There is existing materials. We just need to reuse it and be better at making use of what we already have rather than extracting more.
00:48:01
Speaker
Amanda, another critical point I think in that influx for that influx to really shift and happen is I think education. So you're a faculty at London College of Fashion and you've created lots of online modules. How quickly are universities and academic institutes evolving and changing to the industry demands? Because these are new materials, there's new technologies being developed. How are we skilling students for the jobs of the future? I guess.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know what, I think that what's going on in the industry is so fast moving. It's got more and more challenging since I've been in education for 20 years. It's got progressively more challenging to really upskill those students at the speed of which particularly manufacturing is changing.
00:48:49
Speaker
that's changing so quickly. You can't equip a university with all of that cutting-edge technology and you cannot do that with materials quite so easily, although there are excellent pockets of practice over at Central St Martin's or soLCF.
00:49:05
Speaker
But to get it pan across courses, really, it's really challenging. So we're constantly working away with trying to input, input, input, because there's, first of all, awareness that has to be pan industry. And that's very, very difficult to really saturate courses with, because it needs to be not only in schools of design technology, which I work in primarily,
00:49:31
Speaker
But at LCF, we have a school of the business school. We also have the school of media and communication. So all of the three schools really have to be up to speed just with the basic sustainability knowledge that drives them to want to change practice and be agents of change in the industry. So that's one thing. So that's super challenging. But to keep up with this incredible
00:49:53
Speaker
inroads in technology. I mean, it's hard. It's really hard. But all I can say is my experience at LCF, one brilliant thing that they do is it's very, very rooted in relationships with industry. So most of the courses that I teach across, because I'm more like a kind of freelance tutor as it were, so I go across courses.
00:50:14
Speaker
is that most of those courses will have an out in industry module and most students will take that as part of it. And that's where they can then see new technology and application. So there's always that really, really strong relationship with industry.
00:50:34
Speaker
And I guess it's also about teaching them to work across disciplines, isn't it? Again, we talked about how a lot of these innovations are coming from the science university labs and how do we kind of bring these students together and how do they start communicating to each other and working together and collaborating to really take that innovation from a little Petri dish to something that can be used in the industry.
00:50:59
Speaker
Well, we're seeing that, you know, we work closely with Central St. Martin's as well, which is also, as you know, under the umbrella of UAL. And they've actually, they have built out that facility for their students. They actually have a lab. So it's the first arts college, really, to incorporate a lab within the courses headed up by Professor Carol Collett. That's amazing. But even the students that aren't beavering around in the lab, they'll go and find
00:51:27
Speaker
a student from Imperial College and they will collaborate. So this, I suppose this is something that's very exciting in education is really making sure that those students see that they can reach out and work with STEM subjects.
00:51:42
Speaker
They can just say, I've got this great idea, but I don't know the biology of it. I don't know the chemistry of it, but I'll go and find somebody who does. And then really, really interesting things come out of those courses, a lot of which you would have seen on the innovation tables as well.
00:51:58
Speaker
Nina, you're definitely considered a thought leader in the textile and fashion industry, but you don't have an education in textile and fashion.
Nina Marenzi's Background and Sustainable Angle
00:52:08
Speaker
Tell us a bit more about how you stumbled into this industry and what made you set up the not-for-profit business, the Sustainable Angle.
00:52:15
Speaker
I was working on, well, for the longest time and actually ever since I started work, it was always on environmental policy or working for a think tank on environmental policies or working on greenhouse gas emission credits and renewable energy credits and so on. So it was always in that vein. That was my background. And then when I did a Masters in Sustainable Agriculture and Rural Development at Imperial, it was
00:52:41
Speaker
time to choose a subject for the dissertation. And that's when I felt, okay, the most interesting thing that I had come across was how so many things that are used in fashion all come down to forestry, to soil for growing fibers. Of course, forestry is relevant for the viscose production in fashion. So a lot of things connected with agriculture, ultimately, and forestry. And I found that fascinating how
00:53:11
Speaker
incredible amounts of innovation was happening in that area and yet those connections weren't really made between fashion and forestry and soil and agriculture. Anyway, so I decided to write a dissertation and because you had to be very specific about what your dissertation was about, I decided to go for organic cotton, which at the time was sort of the dominant, well-defined
00:53:38
Speaker
fiber that was grown differently and so on. And so I decided to write the dissertation on that. And so, of course, that's when you immediately then come in touch with certification bodies at the time already, soil association, guts and so on. And that opened the whole world to these materials and mills and also people behind, you know, these pioneers who had already been working on this for a while. And so that really got me into fashion and textiles.
00:54:08
Speaker
but of course I had always had an interest in fashion, in anything to do with sort of art and creativity was always interesting, that's how I grew up, my mother was very much into that, so it was always in an industry or rather something that was on my mind and something that I always always loved and admired of course as well and there's sort of creative geniuses behind it.
00:54:29
Speaker
How can you not like it? And just generally also being aware of what this industry or generally the arts, the power behind that in connecting with the personal industry. And this therefore becomes an industry that is really relevant where you can make changes and create these agents of change. And you can influence at a very quick pace, influence people and changing their minds and hearts to something that really matters such as
00:54:56
Speaker
the environment and how we as a first species ever is destroying their own livelihoods and their own base that they depend on. I mean, how insane is that? So that really got me hooked on fashion and the changes that you should see in this industry and the potential there is.
00:55:11
Speaker
The Future Fabrics Expo is one of the arms of the sustainable angle. Is that right? So it wasn't set up to be focused only on fashion and textile at all. It really was set up to initiate and support projects that helped to lower the environmental impact of industry and society. So it's super broad, but then very quickly fashion and textiles were very clearly, as I just said, super interesting. And then the Future Fabrics Expo took place the first one in 2011, and it was very clear that that would be
00:55:40
Speaker
keeping me very busy. And so there wasn't really much left to do anything else. But there was always the agricultural side and interest was very much a driver through most of the things and still is. So that is very much a sort of a common thread. So apart from the expo, how else do you support businesses if they come to you directly?
00:56:03
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for asking the questions because we do a lot of work for brands through our advisory services. That is definitely something that we do. We hold workshops throughout the year. We have a studio and showroom in London where we receive brands and show them the curated section that we were describing before. So that's definitely one of the things that we do very much. And that is something we want to expand into also offering
00:56:28
Speaker
services that are more in the advisory realm to the mills and the producers that we have as part of the expo because they also need advice sometimes and also input and of course we see a lot of things going on so that can be helpful to them. So that's one of the things that we are very busy with at times.
00:56:48
Speaker
I'm going to do a few questions, sort of quick fire ones now, because there's both of you and I want to ask you both the same questions. So I'll maybe sort of ask a question. Nina can go first and then Amanda and then we'll kind of go to the next one. There's only a handful of them. So where are you from, Nina? I'm from Switzerland. And what was it like growing up in Switzerland in your early teens?
00:57:09
Speaker
very different than where I live now, which is London, because, you know, a lot of things were normal to do, such as recycling or being aware of your general footprint, you know, what are you doing and not being wasteful and, you know, all these sort of things very kind of, yeah, as you would normally expect of a Swiss person. All right. And favorite hobby when you were a teenager? Favorite hobby probably was picking
00:57:37
Speaker
ripe tomatoes in my mom's garden. Oh, lovely. Definitely. That's my favorite. Great. And how about you, Amanda? Where are you from? I'm from Manchester. This is kind of like rooted in, you know, cottonopolis, right? So in the heartland of the industrial north,
00:57:54
Speaker
And, but I've been living, I came to London to study. So I've been living in London since then, since I did my degree in fashion design. And you've been asked me hobby. Oh my goodness, hobbies. Well, hobby was everything, creative and artistic, making clothes, all manner of creative stuff. My mother actually was an art teacher as well.
00:58:16
Speaker
But my other thing was when I was a kid, I desperately wanted to be a marine biologist. So I was obsessed with Jacques Cousteau, which is my honesty. I couldn't wait for the next week's episode. And so another hobby would be snorkeling and sea creatures. Lovely. Brilliant. So yeah. And what was it like growing up as a teenager in Manchester?
00:58:41
Speaker
actually amazing but you know what I left I left before because it's always been a very vibrant city but I kind of left at the put to come to London at the point at the point where it got really interesting you know so I only um I only got to go to the hacienda I think two or three times which is really unfortunate you when you talk about iconic kind of cultural life
00:59:04
Speaker
I just kind of slipped out of Manchester when it all kicked in. This is a question I ask all my guests. What is a piece of fabric or clothing, something you made or bought or that was handed down, that holds really special memories for you or has deep meanings for you and sort of hold on to it for a long time? Definitely my dad's old smoking shirt, taxider shirt, what do you call it, you know, with a dickey in front. Oh, yeah.
00:59:34
Speaker
which I still have and still wear. And I adore that. And I was fortunate enough to be dragged to a lot of secondhand places with my mom ever since I was tiny. So I've got a lot of very old sort of vintage things that she had bought together with me in secondhand stores and so on that I still have. One actually is a flaming 1970s Gillet with sort of
00:59:58
Speaker
small little bits of probably at the time, you know, little cutoffs from fur back in the 70s. And they're in crazy colors. I mean, it's not something I wear anymore, but it's the coolest she laid in the 70s. And she would always wear it. I remember her wearing it around the house. It's crazy. She probably felt like she's too old to wear that out in the streets and she would wear it out.
01:00:20
Speaker
Oh, no, it's so funny. So there's some things you just can't bear to get rid of, even though you think I'm never going to wear it again. I've got I've got quite a lot actually folded up in bags, like, just, I'm trying to think of a real favourite, but one memory of really thinking something was very precious
01:00:39
Speaker
that I didn't make, which was a vintage jacket which must have been, you know, the very small handstooth check. I still have it bagged up somewhere, even though it doesn't fit me anymore. Small handstooth check, these just beautiful little shaped pockets, it was fitted incredibly. In fact, I took the outside of it to bits to sort of take it in when I was much younger.
01:01:02
Speaker
like and hand did the whole you know the whole thing and then put the lining back in so it would be that because that I invested well first of all finding it that was so pleased to find it and then altering it which took forever
01:01:17
Speaker
So even though it doesn't fit me anymore, that's the thing that I remember. First serious vintage purchase. And it's like, yeah, I think it was 1940s or 50s. And these are things you hope, well, hopefully the younger generation will start doing now, you know, to repair and to buy things and take it in and alter it. And that's part of the circular thinking that we're all hoping to embody going forward.
01:01:44
Speaker
So this is a question my previous guest has left for my next guest. They didn't know who it was going to be, but both of you get to answer it. Maybe Amanda sort of answered it already, but her question, this was Beth from Unspun. They do 3D weaving technology. Very, very interesting work. And her question was, if you weren't doing fashion textiles today, what else would you be doing in your life, in your career?
01:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's it's a really hard question. I guess probably working somewhere more closer to nature and farming and really seeing the change happening on the ground.
01:02:18
Speaker
That would be something that I probably would like to do a bit closer to that one way or another. Yeah, I think I don't feel although I was trained as a designer and was focused on making product for like decades, it was like after a while I was just, no, I don't need to be doing this anymore. Kind of fall out of love with just the impulse to just keep producing more. That's what it was with me, which led me into education, actually.
01:02:42
Speaker
Because I was just like, well, I love fashion, but I don't feel the need to keep populating the planet with more stuff. I don't want to be responsible for that. But I think, you know, just going back to my sort of love of the sea and stuff is I would
01:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think something involved in that in some way. I'm not sure quite how but I guess I'm kind of living that life vicariously through our material adventures. Do you know what I mean? We're often seeing materials that are coming from a different nature and the sea and material innovation area is maybe something I would be practicing myself but I actually love to be just involved in
01:03:26
Speaker
in all of it and being able to connect all different players together is a joy actually, it really is. And could each of you leave a question for my next guest?
01:03:38
Speaker
I think it's assuming that, you know, most of your interviewees are, as you just mentioned, Beth from Unspun and just really wide amazing people that you get to talk to like us is I find it always very interesting to hear who inspired them and who was sort of the people that they would recommend reading or you know, what's the book, you know, these are sort of
01:04:03
Speaker
classic questions, but I think they're always very informative and interesting to know the book that changed your life. The book that made you do what you're doing now. Yeah. Great questions. Yeah. Actually, Beth had some great recommendations for books. I was like, I need to read these now this summer.
01:04:22
Speaker
Brilliant. Would you like to give us the details of the Future Fabric Expo New York edition? Just one more time so that our audience have it. I'll put it in the show notes, but just say it once more so people remember it and can attend. Thank you, Millie. It is Future Fabric Expo New York City edition.
01:04:39
Speaker
which will take place on the 19th and 20th of November this year. It's in the Garment District in Manhattan and the venue is actually called Metropolitan Pavilion and all the details are on our Instagram, the Sustainable Angle and on LinkedIn at the Sustainable Angle.
01:04:57
Speaker
Brilliant. Oh, I'm so excited. I can't make it there, but I'm glad I caught the one in London. I'm sure it's going to be a fabulous show. Thank you so much, both Nina and Amanda. Really, really great to just sort of pull the veil back behind the expo and learn a bit more about what happens there to learn more about you as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you for having us.
01:05:19
Speaker
I loved that conversation. FFE is hosted every summer in London. I've attended twice now and each time I left feeling so energized and inspired with a million ideas buzzing around in my head and being totally blown away because here you will find both the weird and wonderful material innovation that are still growing in a Petri dish, literally.
01:05:42
Speaker
all the way to the largest collection of sustainable fabrics that is ready for sourcing, making it so easy for brands and designers to find low and positive impact alternatives for their product development.
01:05:54
Speaker
Before we wrap up the episode, I wanted to share a few sound bites I collected of people who attended or exhibited at the Expo here in London in 2024. So you get a real feel of the event. First, we have a textile expert, Victoria Nickerson. She is an incredible researcher and smart textile lead at the World Textile Information Network. And this is what Victoria had to share.
01:06:16
Speaker
So tell me, Victoria, how many times have you come to this expo before? So I came here last year, since my second year here, although as a company I think we've been a few times before.
01:06:27
Speaker
It's a great expo to come to. I think last year, I spoke to a few of the curator and the director and they sort of told me it's grown exponentially year on year. So it's quite exciting to see the numbers this year, the kind of diversity, I guess, of people coming to it as well, not just brands. We've got a lot like academics, manufacturers, things like that. It's quite changing and shifting.
01:06:51
Speaker
So you've had a good walk around, you've had sat through some of the seminars. Tell us what you've enjoyed the most, something that you found really inspiring. I think this year one of the new areas is the footwear innovation hub, which is quite an interesting one because I think, you know, a lot of times these shows, obviously it's based on a lot of apparel, sportswear, outdoor wear, that kind of thing. So it's quite nice to see this place entirely dedicated to footwear.
01:07:16
Speaker
And I think some of the stuff I've seen there as well, you know, one of the things they're talking about is maybe like from the design aspect, designing for disassembly, which one of the projects is called disassembly lab. And they're kind of talking about how from the start we can sort of shape shoes, so they're more easily taken apart. Obviously,
01:07:33
Speaker
It's quite different from apparel, there are so many different aspects of footwear. One of the other things is the Innovation Hub which again always has some really exciting things which some of it might not yet be commercialised, some of it is. But one of the things I saw there was called Lucid Life by Christopher Bellamy and it's quite interesting because he's using bioluminescent microalgae
01:07:55
Speaker
to create some different kind of products and so for here the algae it lasts about six months apparently when you touch it it sort of emanates light and so he worked with some Polynesian artisans to sort of show you how you know you can kind of combine culture with kind of sustainability aspects and they made a few different things like jewelry I think some swimwear as well and it's
01:08:19
Speaker
That was quite a cool thing I saw there today. Recycled technologies, and I think I'm talking to some people later about this as well, just how much investment is going into that space. I think that's again been quite a difficult thing with textiles, footwear, any kind of industry, because some of our products are made up of so many different types of materials or components, that kind of thing. So I think more
01:08:44
Speaker
investment and infrastructure there is quite an interesting thing going on at the moment.
01:08:50
Speaker
With WTIN, you have such an amazing overview of the textile industry, the supply chain, the challenges there and the opportunities. So it's great to hear your thoughts about what you've seen here and what you've learned. Will you be back next year? Yes, hopefully so. I'd love to be here next year. It's just always a very interesting show to come to. And I think year and year, as much as they do have sort of new, exciting innovations,
01:09:14
Speaker
They're sort of saying we do have a lot of the same ones, but you can physically see how they scale it up from, you know, maybe being on the Innovation Hub to suddenly being running their own booth because they're, you know, really commercializing the material. So that's always exciting.
01:09:27
Speaker
Thank you so much, Victoria, for your insight. Enjoy the rest of your time here. The wonderful thing about the Future Fabric Expo is that it is not just for the experts like Victoria or the people who are in the space and in the club. This is an equally welcoming event for someone who is new to sustainability and circularity and wants to learn more. So I was curious to catch up with a newbie to this area and to the event. And for that, we met with Tanya Clark, a product designer and entrepreneur.
01:09:57
Speaker
This is the first time she has attended the expo and she shares about what she was expecting and what she took away from the event. So what were you expecting to see and learn at this expo? I think I came with an open mind really. I've been looking for alternative fabrics for some time.
01:10:16
Speaker
And this sounds like a great, a good place to find alternative materials. I've mainly been working in fabrics, leather materials and cossoms. And I wanted to know what the alternatives might be. So I thought that might be a good show to have a look. Okay, great. And what has your first impression been? What's caught your attention? Well, it was incredible. It was a really incredible show in the sense that there was just so much to take in and
01:10:43
Speaker
so much fascinating and bewildering material and processes and conversations going on. Helping to see is the experimentation of materials. So we met one lady who had grown a piece of skin and was completely feared. But the concept of being able to grow a skin opens up lots of other questions about
01:11:07
Speaker
how we can regenerate materials, which is quite fascinating. To be honest, I came out thinking, oh my goodness, I've got so much to process. So much good stuff going on. Left me with lots of questions. It kind of got me excited about getting back into the industry as it's been a while since I've product developed in leather. It was great to see what alternative leathers there were.
01:11:32
Speaker
And it made me think, well, are they leathers, whether they're leathers or not? Should I be seeing these materials in a different way? So it was a very useful, informative, insightful show. And what would you say were two takeaways that you had from the event? I think the first one is if you don't know anything about secularity, which was a term that was used quite a lot, and I learned a lot in your
01:12:00
Speaker
you know, new at finding materials and working out how to link a retail business designing products with sustainability and security and how it can be fair for every single part of that process. And it's a good show to go to. It will help you in that process of developing the product, think about certain things that will be useful to making that product in a fair and wholesome way.
01:12:30
Speaker
The second would be come with an open mind and use it as a platform to learn not just about the product you're making but also about the context with which your product is being made and all the parts that are intrinsic to making that product happen because it isn't just the end product, it's the soil it comes from, it's the people that make it, it's the effects of the environment on the materials that you use and
01:12:59
Speaker
There isn't just one fixed answer. There are multiple answers. So I feel it's good to come with an open mind to see how what you're thinking about can fit into that. And would you recommend this expert to others? Yes, I would. I would. Yeah. I mean, there's so much going on. Lots of people who've got incredible experience.
01:13:19
Speaker
and know a lot about the subject and then the people like me who were just on the journey. And so I think it's a good place to go. Great to hear your thoughts on this and hope to catch you next year at the show again. So now that we've heard from two people who attended the event, for that we have Gabriela Sheiner-Hill of Design Bureau 555 and this is what she had to say as an exhibitor and what she gained from it.
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Speaker
us a bit more about why you do it. So we make digital twins of physical textiles so that means that people can use those digital materials to make 3D versions of their samples. So the whole point of Bureau 555 is to reduce the physical sampling process.
01:14:01
Speaker
Is this the first time you're exhibiting here at the expo? Yes, first time exhibiting, but I've been coming for the last eight years to the show. Wow. Yeah, it's a show that's been on my radar for a long time. Brilliant. Yeah. And what's been your experience actually being an exhibitor at the event?
01:14:16
Speaker
Well, it's it's been amazing, obviously pretty tiring, right? But what I would say is I'm in the innovation section. So I'm with some really sort of like fantastic brands like other 3D weaving, like 3D physical weaving, like our jackards on the loom or sort of like button innovations and material innovation. So everyone's come super interested in like what does digitization mean? So I've had to spend quite a lot of time
01:14:36
Speaker
explaining that we actually scan a material, we test it and then we make a digital file and that file is what we provide which is actually quite a jump and a leap for lots of people. But the interest has been really really great and I've spoken to automotive companies, to textile companies, to fashion companies, to yarn companies and even like education providers as well so it's been really interesting.
01:14:58
Speaker
You have an incredible series called Seamless Blend, a podcast all about digitisation of textiles. I learned so much from that. Tell us a bit about it. And I want everyone listening to this podcast to go check it out. Thank you. Yes. So myself and Jorgen, who is from Bandicoot, came together in January of this year, 24.
01:15:20
Speaker
and said, you know, shall we do a podcast together? Because this digitisation of textiles, it sounds really vague and intangible until you start talking it through. So we basically sort of like scoped out six episodes and we come together for 45 minutes and talk quite fluidly, quite free and live about the challenges and the sort of like wins and successes we've had within the digitisation of textiles. If you're interested in how textiles are digitised and how we make digital twins, that's what we're there for.
01:15:48
Speaker
Highly recommend that. Well, good luck with the rest of the expo. And thank you so much. Another exhibitor I spoke to was Flora from SparkCell, another startup doing innovative work in structural colors. And these are her thoughts on why this is such an important event to exhibit at.
01:16:06
Speaker
I'm working in the research and development of structurally coloured pigments as part of SparkCell. These are 100% cellular space pigments and that produce all colours in the visible wavelength using structural colour, so using the reflectance of light to produce the different colours.
01:16:25
Speaker
We're zippering here as part of the sustainability so if you can put cellulose pigments onto cellulose fabrics that can create part of the circularity. It's been so nice to see all sorts of different companies here so the sustainability can feel a bit like a dream and it's really nice to see sort of lots of companies that are making viable products in different areas around textiles and the fashion industry and sort of makes it more of a reality
01:16:53
Speaker
and makes you believe that it might actually be possible to see some of these things go forward in the future. Absolutely, it does give us a lot of hope to see so many parts of the ecosystem present here doing some great development. What were you hoping to get out of this expo?
01:17:09
Speaker
I think showing our product to other people and looking at maybe potential partners and different collaborations that we can work with, lots of people who have different parts of a singular product. And so we are one part of a whole and sort of working out different people who we can work with to make that whole. Amazing. And do you think you'll be back next year? I hope so. Brilliant. So we'll see you again next year. Thank you so much, Flora.
01:17:36
Speaker
Navigating the ever-evolving landscape of sustainable textiles can be tricky. Today we have explored how this groundbreaking event is not only just showcasing sustainable and innovative material, but also fundamentally reshaping the future of fashion and textiles.
01:17:53
Speaker
The expo has become a vital platform for bringing together pioneers in the industry, from textile innovators to sustainability experts, all aiming to create solutions that tackle the environmental challenges facing the world today. A few key takeaways from our discussion. Firstly, the shift towards using materials that go beyond reducing harm is crucial.
01:18:16
Speaker
Nina and Amanda highlight how the expo is increasingly focusing on materials that have a net positive impact, helping regenerate ecosystems and benefit the people working in the supply chain. Secondly, collaboration across industry is key to scaling these innovations. Whether it's connecting fashion designers with material scientists or building partnerships between brands and biochemists, it's through these interdisciplinary approach that true innovation really flourish.
01:18:44
Speaker
And thirdly, overproduction and overconsumption remain a problem, a big problem with brands needing to rethink their approach to mass production. Circularity on-demand manufacturing and smarter production models offer promising alternatives, but these will require strong commitment from both the fashion industry and consumers to make a significant impact.
01:19:07
Speaker
If you're inspired by what you heard today, be sure to check out the New York edition of the Future Fabrics Expo on November 19th and 20th at the Metropolitan Pavilion in Manhattan, New York. Registration is now open. Check out the show notes below for the link to buy your tickets.
01:19:24
Speaker
For my global audience, I haven't forgotten you. I have something for you too. Check out the link below in the show notes for free access to the seminar series from FF Expo London 2024 that is full of insights from industry experts, change makers, and innovators. I was there at these seminars and they are fantastic.
01:19:44
Speaker
Thanks again for listening. And don't forget to connect with me if you'd like to be part of the Evolution of No Ordinary Cloth podcast. And please do subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of textiles, emerging technology, craft and sustainability. That's all from me today. This is your host, Mili Theriault.