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What is monotropism?
143 Plays16 days ago
What is monotropism, and how does it shape the way many autistic and ADHD people experience the world?
In this episode of This is Autism, Kerry Highcock, Family Development Manager at the North East Autism Society, is joined by autistic teacher, writer and advocate Helen Edgars, the voice behind Autistic Realms. Together, they explore the theory of monotropism – an autistic-led, neurodiversity-affirming framework that helps explain deep focus, flow states, sensory experiences, transitions and attention.
Helen shares how discovering monotropism transformed her understanding of autism, moving away from deficit-based thinking and towards a more positive and authentic perspective. The conversation explores what monotropic thinking can look like in everyday life, why transitions and interruptions can be so challenging, and how embracing flow can support wellbeing and help prevent burnout.
Whether you're autistic, ADHD, a parent, educator, professional or simply interested in learning more about neurodiversity, this episode offers practical insights and strategies to better understand and support monotropic thinkers at home, in school and in the workplace.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- What monotropism is and why it matters
- The difference between monotropic and polytropic attention
- Why flow states are so important for many autistic people
- How monotropism influences learning, communication and wellbeing
- Practical ways to create more neurodiversity-affirming environments
Listen now and discover how understanding monotropism can help us move beyond stereotypes and create spaces where autistic and neurodivergent people can truly thrive.
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Transcript
Introduction to Monotropism
00:00:06
Speaker
I think we need huge this mini huge systemic change. Group interactions can be especially difficult because it involves that attention splitting into multiple streams.
00:00:18
Speaker
And it's almost like icy cold water getting thrown over his head. It's just exhausting. mean, it's no wonder that so many young people are struggling. Hi everyone and welcome to This Is Autism, the podcast from the Northeast Autism Society. My name is Kerry Highcock and I'm the Family Development Manager here at the charity.
00:00:37
Speaker
Today I'm joined by Helen Edgars, an autistic teacher, writer and um the voice behind the blog Autistic Realms. Helen brings a wealth of lived experience and professional insight to her work and she's become a leading voice in helping others understand autism through the lens of monotropism.
00:00:54
Speaker
In this episode we will be exploring what monotropism is, how it can shape the way autistic people experience the world, we'll talk about what monotropism looks like in daily life, the benefits of embracing a monotropic mindset and how it compares to polytropic thinking. Helen will also share her work on the monotropic questionnaire and offer practical ideas for supporting monotropic thinkers in everyday
Origins and Impact of Monotropism
00:01:19
Speaker
environments. So thank you so much, Helen, for joining us. It's really lovely to meet you because I've followed your work for several, several years. So it's lovely to have you here.
00:01:28
Speaker
Thank you very much indeed for inviting me. and very much looking forward to um having a chat with you about my favourite subject, which is monotropism. I mean, I'm quite excited about learning more about and monotropism. So um I've been looking forward to this podcast. and So I guess just to start really, what what is monotropism? Could you describe it for our listeners?
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, so the the um theory of and the concept of monotropism was first proposed by um Dr. Dinah Murray, Dr. Wen Lawson and Mike Lesser back in the 1990s. And that evolved into their 2005 paper, Attention, Monotropism and the Diagnostic Criteria for Autism.
00:02:07
Speaker
um And it's basically changed my whole life since I discovered this theory of um an affirming theory of autism. and And the work challenges the deficit based models of autism. It highlights that being monotropic and being autistic isn't a flaw. It's just a different mode of attentional resourcing. And that can be a really powerful effective reframing when you've got positive support.
00:02:35
Speaker
um So monotropism is a cognitive style. um As I said, it was primarily associated um to help reframe autism.
Daily Life with Monotropism
00:02:44
Speaker
Although more recently through the monotropism questionnaire, they found the researchers, Gawar et al, found that the highest cohort with and the highest scores in the monotropism questionnaire were actually those that were autistic and ADHD, so all DHDers.
00:03:02
Speaker
so Monotropism has been increasingly used to help explain and explain autistic and ADHD experiences, really, and all ADHD experiences.
00:03:15
Speaker
and and It describes a tendency to focus attention very deeply on a limited number of interests, tasks, or sensory experiences at any any one time.
00:03:27
Speaker
and This is in contrast to non-autistic people um who may be polytropic processors. um and If you're a polytropic processor, your attention is more likely to be distributed across multiple tasks or inputs, but more broad broadly.
00:03:47
Speaker
Monotropism is narrower, but very deep, and polytropism is dispersed, attention is dispersed a lot wider. and So it does take a little bit of thinking to get your head around all of that. But to illustrate these key differences, I really like the analogy from Fergus Murray, who's the son of Diana Murray, one of the original researchers, and who also has the website monotropism.org, which I support.
00:04:14
Speaker
And they liken monotropism to be like a garden hose, whereas polytropism is more like a sprinkler system. So polytropic people have a...
00:04:26
Speaker
narrower, maybe a higher pressured stream of attention, which will go deeper into one or just a few few areas at any one time. So we can create great depth. and immersive experiences, whereas and polytropic people, non-autistic, non-monotropic people, their attention is more like a garden sprinkler system. So and attention is going to be dispersed across more areas, covering more ground at any one time.
00:04:55
Speaker
And this leads to significant differences in the way autistic and non-autistic people or polytropic versus monotropic people manage their life and juggle all the demands that life brings on us, switching contexts, transitions, sensory experiences. So it helps it's helped explain my whole life, my whole way of being. I can kind of reframe everything through the lens of monotropism pretty much. That must be really, really powerful, um Helen, to kind of have that language and start to understand about yourself through the lens of monotropism.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of redefined everything when we're talking about autism is normally through that deficit lens monotropism. having maybe obsessive or restricted or um very narrow interests when but in fact through the lens of monotropism, you can see how it can actually bring a great deal of joy and regulation and and and clarity and for thinking and sensory experiences. And it helps reframe the difficulties that people have with transitions, which can sometimes be disorientating or distressing because it's more about how your attentional resources are
00:06:07
Speaker
being pulled out and trying to like transition across and into a different attention tunnel.
Challenges in Task Switching
00:06:11
Speaker
But it's not, I don't think monotropism is just about um that's kind of sustained attention. It's also about how we relate to things that hold our attention. It's almost like a kind of magnetic pull that draws you towards something that kind of like a gravitational force and really intensely. And that interest kind of chooses you. i think there's a few misconceptions around monotropism where people think it's just about maybe autistic special interests or autistic passions, but it's a lot wider and broader than that. It can be anything that kind of captures your attention at any one time. So at the moment I'm sitting in my kind of forest den here and I've got um those little...
00:06:53
Speaker
Sun catches on my window so I can see the light kind of shining and reflecting. So it's anything like that which kind of goes, oh, it's pulling you in. So I'm having to kind of refocus myself to to maintain my attention on on the podcast here.
00:07:07
Speaker
And is it for you, Helen? I mean, i love I love things like that, anything sparkly or shiny or pretty. Does it tend to be when you're talking about that attention draw from objects, like sensory experiences, Does it tend to be a specific type of sensory experience for you that would pull you in?
00:07:25
Speaker
for For me, um ah specifically things around light, perhaps certain sounds that I'm perhaps drawn drawn towards more than other things, as as to bring kind of those glimmers of autistic joy, those kind of joyful moments, but but also to help you regulate when you are feeling dysregulated. It's thinking about what what you need in those other the are the moments, such as, i don't know, like...
00:07:49
Speaker
blocking out those shiny lights and having kind of darker environments and maybe weighted blankets and to help refocus your attentional resources onto something else to help balance you what might monotropism or a monotropic thinker what might that look like in daily life like if we were you know i work a lot with families and if i was trying to explain what that might look like for the child perhaps or the young person what might they see Yeah, so I think it shows up in lots of different ways. I mean, just, you know, have poop there' the the saying isn't there like, you know, once you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. So everybody's very unique. I think the difference just how absorbed and how intense that that kind of attentional pull can be at be at times. um So you might spend hours researching
00:08:36
Speaker
ah top depending on what's kind of putting your interest at the time, and researching topics, for example, monotropism and autism for myself, and building, writing, creating things, depending on what what your your interest is to get into that kind of flow state. And on on the flip side of that, when your attention is pulled into something...
00:08:56
Speaker
more negative maybe you can obviously get into those cycles of looping kind of ruminating thoughts which may not be as positive as um you know your deep interest in your passions and that that deep interest where your attention is being pulled to such an extent i think it um for me personally for lots of young people that i've worked with as well in the past as a teacher
00:09:22
Speaker
really helps explain the difficulties that people can have with their interoception system. When your attention is, all of your attentional resources are pretty much being consumed by engaging in either a topic of interest or a sensory experience, it leaves very few resources then to be able to kind of tune in to the rest of your body. um So it leaves people maybe forgetting to eat or not noticing when they're hungry, noticing when they need the toilet or when they're in pain.
00:09:51
Speaker
when they might need to rest, you can be, you know, when when you're deeply ah absorbed in that kind of flow state, time seems to kind of slip away or almost. Certainly for me, like 10 minutes ah in the hour, when I'm really absorbed in something, I can be absorbed in it for several hours, but in It only feels like 10 minutes to myself.
Research and Misconceptions about Monotropism
00:10:12
Speaker
But yeah, I think the biggest challenges for monotropic people are probably things like transitions, tasks, switching, going from one activity to another can be mentally and kind of sensory emotionally destabilizing and being interrupted when you're being pulled out of those attention tunnels. It takes a lot of energy to kind of pull yourself out of one tunnel.
00:10:34
Speaker
and try and get into another another time you can get into that kind of state of inertia where you're unable to start to so or stop anything. Sorry, i didnt what I didn't want to interrupt you because you were in the zone there. But when you were talking, Helen, it reminds me a lot about um we do a lot of work with schools.
00:10:52
Speaker
So I'm thinking, you know, and you'll know this as a teacher, I don't think young people have enough time to be in the monotropic space because everything's so... We do this, we do that, we do this. would it There isn't much time to go deep, is there, into interests? and Yeah, I think having interest-led learning is is is really, really powerful. Having flexible timetables. So in a classroom, I think there's lots of things that we can do to help support monotropic people a lot a lot better. There's... lots of kind of deficit negative framing of autistic students, maybe being off task, maybe thinking that they're not engaged enough or they're not working in in the in the right way.
00:11:32
Speaker
And when you frame through monotropism and flow states, you can understand how important it is to have those more flexible timetables um to give students more space between different activities because schools are such busy places. You know, you've got multiple lessons, multiple teachers, multiple rooms throughout the day where people have to literally going from one attention to into another. And it's that constant...
00:11:57
Speaker
pulling and we having to realign all of your energy and and resources for every single kind of transition that happens and that can be just exhausting on top of the need that so many people have to mask to try and fit in as as as well yeah yeah absolutely so what I mean it's it's my understanding and please correct me if I'm wrong that monotropism is kind of an autistic-led theory. So we know that many, many autistic people experience experience monotropism. And it's only recently, I guess, that the research is kind of catching up with people
00:12:36
Speaker
the kind of the ah the lived experience really. Is that accurate, Helen, or not? So yeah, the research into monotropism is absolutely increasing. It's super, duper, duper exciting. There's loads more researchers, and especially working in kind of neurodiversity affirming fields that are recognising that monotropism isn't just kind of an autistic quirk or and or anything like that. It's a central part of how many autistic and ADHD of individuals experience the world. And as I said, it affects our attention, our energy, how we socialize, how we learn, how we communicate, how you regulate, how you structure your day. It affects every single moment of your sleeping and waking life and being monotropic. think one of the landmark papers most recently is by Gaurav et al 2023, who developed the monotropism questionnaire.
00:13:29
Speaker
And they investigated over, was a huge study, they investigated over a thousand people. And they found that autistic and ADHD individuals, so those who, or ADHDers, were significantly more likely to be to have higher scores in the monotropism questionnaire than the other cohorts that they, in their study.
00:13:50
Speaker
And that's really really significant because it means that the theory of monotropism isn't just about autistic experiences it goes beyond that into multiply neurodivergent people who may be yeah autistic and ADHD as well so it shifted a lot a lot wider than that and um yeah there's so many researchers now that are covering from many fields, education, psychologists, therapists, and workplace settings that are all looking into the theory of monotropism.
00:14:22
Speaker
um And really some very significant and important studies which are looking into autistic burnout. and So there's a study by Bertil Stotter-Roskbitz, sorry, I'm not sure how to pronounce that, in 2023, that explored um how young autistic people manage their...
00:14:42
Speaker
and energy in work and relationships and leisure. and One of the key strategies that they found was through the lens of monotropism, where people were able to choose when and where to socialize and focus based on how much energy those shifts required. so It helped inform decision-making and energy resource management and when kind of you're thinking through the lens of monotropism and switching tasks.
00:15:09
Speaker
There's a really fantastic paper and by Heisman that came out last year about the state of flow, which is when we're talking about monotropism, as I said, we're talking about those flow states, those flowy attention tunnels and having time and space to navigate your life in flow as much as possible and manage the huge demands from sensory input and communication and All of the demands that happen in in workplaces and and classrooms and all those very neuro-normative expectations to adapt and fit into certain expected ways of being, which may not be in line with how
00:15:51
Speaker
many monotropic people naturally are, kind of goes against their flow in many ways. And yeah, when we're thinking about flow states, we're thinking about balancing all of those demands to hopefully get some glimmers of joy in our lives as well.
Supporting Monotropic Individuals in Society
00:16:04
Speaker
So there's there's loads, loads of studies that have covered everything from and experiences of autistic play It was a brilliant paper by Pritchard Rau in 2023 looking at autistic adults' experiences of play.
00:16:17
Speaker
And they highlighted how monotropic play was. You know, it's when we're talking about play, we're not just talking about children's play for children. We're talking about the importance of, yeah, engaging in our own and passions as well and how valuable that is to support our well-being. You know, Helen, um I've been talking about this all day, sorry.
00:16:39
Speaker
Just get on it on. This is all brilliant. I'm making so many notes because, you know, i'm I'm learning so much and I'm actually rewriting some training at the moment and and some of it is around monotropism. So I'm i'm pinching some of your some of your research articles here as you're speaking.
00:16:55
Speaker
But what I'm interested in, because I hear about the term flow a lot and, and you know, the beautifulness, I guess, of being in a flow state, how that can kind of make you feel very safe and and regulated. Yeah.
00:17:07
Speaker
I don't know if I've experienced a flow state before. I don't know. um What does it feel like what to you, Helen? Because obviously it's a very unique space. Can you describe how it feels to be in that flow state or not? and I guess I could give give it a go. I mean, the theory, the flow flow theory initially was proposed by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
00:17:35
Speaker
And their and their death their flow theory quite quite a few years ago now. And they describe flow as a state where you're intrinsically motivated in something and you're also challenged in a way that feels kind of deeply rewarding and and satisfying and and fulfilling. For me, when I'm in a flow state, everything else seems to just melt away. That's the only way I can describe it, really. So, like, literally the rest of the world and the whole of my life just seems to literally disappear.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I may not notice anything else, like, literally. So, like, if people are calling my name, um if i've got I just have to set alarms for everything to keep me on track with stuff, but I may not even notice or hear those kind of alarms being going off. I may not notice whether i'm hungry or thirsty. And as I said, i can be working or reading for hours and hours and hours and hours. And I think I've only been doing it for like 15, 20 minutes. And then it's kind of a look outside and it's gone dark.
00:18:34
Speaker
No, that does – I can re resonate with that. That does happen to me, a yes. I get that. And then you forgot that you should have had a drink or you should have popped the loo or – Yeah, yeah. And being in flow, for me, it's it's a constant – I think for me personally, it's highly related to the kind of chronic long-term term burnout.
00:18:54
Speaker
When I'm engaged in in that flow state with something that I find deeply rewarding or satisfying, it helps recharge me um and it kind of – helps balance my sensory system out and I feel best better after after after engaging in things like that and and stimming for example, lots lots of autistic people talk about flow states and stimming and as well as as a form of form of regulation. and It's been in that attention tunnel of There's immersive, there's a fully immersive states where your whole mind and body and sensory system is just engaged, you know, as as as as much as possible. All your attentional resources are just in that flow, like when I described the
00:19:39
Speaker
garden and hose, for example, you know, it's it's very immersive as opposed to just being kind of spread, dispersed lightly across lots of different other tasks and events.
00:19:50
Speaker
could it could Just because when I hear yeah autistic people, you know, autistic people in my life or personally and professionally talk about this flow state, it sounds actually like a wonderful place to be. And I'm always a little bit like, oh, why can't I get in this place?
00:20:07
Speaker
Because I am the sprinkler like Helen. I am the do do do do like attention everywhere constantly, like little tiny bits of attention. um Yeah, I think um especially for ADHD people, a lot of people describe I'm ADHD as well about that kind of scattered attention. Yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker
and And so like, even when I'm in a flow state, I have multiple things going on. It's like, not just like I'm in a single task. My mind is constantly kind of connecting like constellationally. So like I'm going from research paper to research paper, making loads of links all all over the place, for example, and or for for other for children, for example, they might be fully engaged in their their sensory play, but then they're expanding and creating links of other ways playing and sensory experiences at the same time. it's not just a I think people think it's a very tunnel vision, single track, but for me, it's it goes when you go deep, you go wide as well. um
00:21:09
Speaker
and things, things connect kind of multidimensional also. That whole thing resonated with me of going kind of focused in because I'm studying at the minute, I'm doing my doctorate. So I can like study, but I don't, I can get focused, but then I do have all the little sprinklers. So exactly how you said, the post-it note writing down about this reference and then do-do-do-do and it's Yeah.
00:21:31
Speaker
Okay. Right. That helps clarify it for me and hopefully hopefully our but our listeners, Helen. and I think what we'll do is we'll take a little break and then we'll come back because we've got a few more questions for you. And um I've probably got a lot more questions that's on this script, but we've we've not got time to to do all of those today. So we'll probably get you back. So we'll take a little bit of a break and then we'll come back and keep chatting with Helen.
00:21:54
Speaker
Hi, while we're on a quick break, I thought I'd tell you a little bit more about the Family Development Service here at the North East Autism Society. The Family Development Services provides support for families pre, during and after diagnosis and includes a variety of services, including our parent and toddler groups, autism hubs, workshops for families, a dedicated inquiry line and our resource site as well, which can be found at at the family resource site on the northeast autism society website so if you go to www.ne-as.org.uk and go along to the family development site you can find all the information there welcome back to this is autism our podcast from the northeast autism society and we are here today with the lovely helen eggders talking about monotropism and So we had some great conversations before the break, Helen. I guess one thing I'm really interested in is what are the benefits of being able to embrace a monotropic mindset? Yeah, so I think it it's really important because if we're not embracing monotropism and we're we're still seeing autism through that kind of deficit lens and seeing ourselves and identifying...
00:23:03
Speaker
um ourselves through ah a deficit lens, it can really affect your your wellbeing. And when we're talking about monotropism, we're talking about embracing flow as well. So going with with our internal flow as opposed to fighting against it. And the things that generally fight against authentic, autistic and monotropic ways of being is because we're basically in a society that values neuro normativity and polytropism. So it leads many people to mask throughout their lives. ah and masking has got huge implications for mental health. It can lead to severe burnout and mental health crisis as well. So when we're talking about embracing monotropism, we're talking about being neurodiversity affirming, we're talking about
00:23:47
Speaker
ah embracing our authentic autistic ADHD ways of ways of being and processing and and living in line with ah our with our needs and our attentional styles. Helen, is it easy to do that, do you think, in a world that is designed for polytropic thinkers? I think we need we need huge this really huge systemic change, of which we're not going to be able to solve in in
Energy Management Strategies
00:24:10
Speaker
this podcast. But I think, and that there as I said, there's a lot of research that is being done. There's a lot of um There's a lot of amazing organizations. I work with Thrive in Autistic um who are doing loads of great work for autistic adults in health care and um workplace settings. You know, there's things. Rebecca Woods has done done some great work around um education and embracing monotropism as well. And the anaphroaic.
00:24:37
Speaker
organization are helping to kind of ref reframe a lot of the teacher training around that as well. So there's loads of really good work being done, and but it's all going to take time. But I think there is a shift happening. And when we're embracing of monotropism, when we're shifting and and flipping that that narrative,
00:24:58
Speaker
and We can see that monotropic people, of and you know those things, as I said, like the obsessed what have previously been seen as obsessive or restricted interests, are actually people that are fully engaged and motivated in in their own way. And it's just about reframing and the support needs and that those people need to help them.
00:25:24
Speaker
thrive really. um You know, we're talking about being able to yeah engage in flow, what helps the sensory system regulate, what we can do to help predictability throughout the day. So there's less unexpected events where people are being pulled out of their attention tunnels and transitions are a little bit smoother. Having more flexibility in schools and workplaces would be huge, hugely helpful. Collaborating with autistic young young people in in school settings.
00:25:56
Speaker
So they have ah their voices are heard. So they've got that kind of agency and autonomy over how their days look. and and a shaped And just yet living living in line with you know a positive, authentic, autistic identity framed through the lens of monotropism would go a really, really, really long long way to supporting people. Yeah. So I don't think um often that validation of how difficult it is to be pulled out of that space.
00:26:21
Speaker
that place, how dysregulating it can be. And I've got one young person in particular who describes it as being in a nice warm bath and he's kind of hit in his zone, he's in his monotropic space, place, mindset. Yeah, and when when you're so deeply immersed and, you know, your attentional resources are all...
00:26:42
Speaker
pulled into that tunnel. So it makes everything, it can make filtering other things out really, really, really, really difficult. So if got young people in in a classroom with so much going on, um you know, loads of, you know, we've got,
00:26:55
Speaker
noise, got children, you got lights, youve got teacher demand, you got your actual lesson content, you got juggling all of those multiple tasks and to joining group activities and things like that. And it's just thinking about ways that could help autistic people a little bit more. um So generally, a lot of people find it helpful not to have so many things going on all all at one time to help them focus a little bit more. Group interactions can be especially difficult because it involves that attention splitting into multiple streams.
00:27:25
Speaker
which can make group activities they a lot more challenging to to get through. So it's just thinking of little little things that can help throughout the day to help manage and energy load, really. we're talking about and energy, energy accounting. That boy, the boy I was talking about, he describes it as he's in a nice warm bath and then someone comes along and tips ah ice cubes over his head in the bath. That's how he describes that kind of being in his zone at school,
00:27:52
Speaker
you know, deeply immersed in something, somebody comes along and says, right, come on, we're moving on to this now. And it's almost like icy cold water getting thrown over his head. Yeah, yeah, it can be really, really, really painful. And it helps explain a lot of those kind of meltdowns and shutdowns that lots of people are very familiar with, either as autistic people themselves or parents are familiar with with their their children when they're suddenly expected to, i don't know, come and sit at the dinner table or or whatever it happens to be, or suddenly get in the car like straight
Monotropism Beyond Autism
00:28:20
Speaker
away. and so having kind of cushioning around events can be really helpful and not trying to squeeze too much into the day. Generally autistic and monotropic people would generally need more time and space around things to to ease those transitions as much as possible with time to regulate the sensory systems effectively. Makes makes complete sense.
00:28:43
Speaker
yeah It helps just kind of draw a bit of a, shine a bit of a light on the kind of after-school meltdowns that so many people talk about I've experienced but myself as well and with so so many children. you know when when When you've been expected to to fit in to society's kind of norms as well and you're masking all day, which is completely energy draining. And then we're talking about how energy draining it is to meet all those external expectations and and switch tasks and constantly realign your sensory system in different environments to different people's expectations. you know in different lessons for example for young young people at school and switching from subject to subject every 40 minutes or so um it's just exhausting i mean it's there's no wonder that so many young people are struggling in school and coming home and just completely melting down and and eventually you you you hit burnout and you you can't carry on like that forever you know there's a
00:29:41
Speaker
there's a limit to how long you can carry on like that for and and unfortunately that is what we're seeing more of in practice so you know what this is ah a very very real thing that we're talking about saying very very important i've so i've read about the monotropic questionnaire on your website helen could you tell us a little bit more about it and is that um a useful tool so if a parent was listening to this now or ah an autistic adult and Is that a tool that they could use to explore the cells a little bit more thinking about monotropism? So, yeah, the self-scoring version of the monotropism questionnaire was um made by David Carey.
00:30:17
Speaker
um so And the link to that is on monotropism.org and also on my own website there. and So there's a link to that. um But, yeah, so the monotropism questionnaire is... um has been transformational for for many autistic ADHD people, as I said. um it hasn't There isn't an actual specific question for young people or children yet. Hopefully that will be, it's very much needed. So i'm i'm hoping somebody will be working on that quite soon. but But I think a lot of the questions, you know, they're they're quite general. And I think for for so for for young young adults, it it may be very valuable to to have a little look at it.
00:30:59
Speaker
And Yeah, the monotro is it was it was created by a team of autistic-led researchers, much like and the original theory of monotropism. It's an autistic-led theory. um and And the questionnaire is also autistic-led as well. And and it it covered um many different areas um such as the difficulty of task switching, which we've talked about, deep engagement of special interests, the need for predictability and routines, how when you're focused on interests, it can often um help reduce anxiety and stress and overwhelm.
00:31:41
Speaker
and how through the lens of monotropism when you're engaged in those flow flow states, it you can also kind of lose track of other the things going on your and in your life, other responsibilities and other and kind of input that that's happening.
00:31:56
Speaker
And they identified eight core factors that commonly show up in monotropic people. And these included struggles in social situations where that high social demand and pull of attention, it pulls us away from our natural focus. Sometimes we i talked about that kind of splitting of attentional resources. um Tanya Adkin, who I also work with, developed the concept of monotropic split, um which is quite interesting to look at.
00:32:26
Speaker
and That's on David Gray Hammond's website, Emergent Divergent, if you're interested in that. But when we're talking about monotropic split, and struggles kind of regulating. We're talking about how monotropic attention is drawn into one or fewer channels at any one time, but because of the demands of living how we live in the society that we live in and and social situations and often involved in classrooms and workplaces, involve that splitting of attention into many different streams to take into account trying to interpret people's tone of voice and body language
00:33:03
Speaker
and thinking about how our own body and um communication um is perceived as as well. and So it helps explain lots of things like that and demands and energy levels and how that can lead lead to burnout if you're constantly having to split your attention.
00:33:25
Speaker
So going back to the, sorry, I've been off on bit of a tangent. Okay, so going back to the eight core factors. but um commonly show up in monotropic people. There's the struggles in social situations, which I've just talked about. Rumination and anxiety can be quite common because it's that intense internal focus, which often can like loop around in people's minds. You know, if you've if you're hooked into something,
00:33:49
Speaker
Negative, maybe thinking of, I don't know, a comment somebody made to you in the office yesterday and you're just like lying there at night going over and over and over and you can't hook out of that. Or it could be many, many other kinds of things, but it's that...
00:34:03
Speaker
wherever your attention is hooked, it's hooked. And so you're you're in that deep flow state, whether it's a kind of positive joy of um you know looking at your shiny lights through the window or whether it's something less helpful. The third factor that they identified was difficulties with decision making, especially for those decisions which are outside of our interest and current attention tunnel.
00:34:27
Speaker
So that can obviously impact children and adults in multiple ways because life's not just about things that we're interested in. We've got we've got to go to work. We've got to like manage our bank accounts. We've got to go shopping.
00:34:40
Speaker
We've got to do the washing up and the hoovering and pack our bags to go to school or work whatever. And all of those things can be of all decisions that we have to make and this splitting of attention onto other tasks, which can be very difficult and leave people in that kind of state of inertia that I talked about, you know, where you're stuck or almost unable to start or stop.
00:35:03
Speaker
at other things. The fourth, I'm going to go down all eight factors here, sorry. So the fourth the fourth one was the calming effects of um of those monotropic interests that and people can have that I've mentioned can often serve as kind of sensory and emotional regulators, really. you know It's a way of grounding yourself and replenishing your energy. The fifth point they made was the need for routines,
00:35:32
Speaker
To support consistency, it helps reduce kind of cognitive demands. And and but when we're we're talking about routines here, not timetables, I think that's quite important for me to to mention because a lot of <unk> a lot of misconceptions that are autistic children need kind of those really structured timetables and where, you know, there' there's somewhere from like nine till 9.30 and then that a timer goes off or whatever and they've got to move on to somewhere else.
00:35:59
Speaker
And that can be... Not very helpful because it's it's that pulling pulling and pulling out of flow states. So when we're talking about routines, we're talking about the routines of of the day and having flexible routines, you know, that are adaptable as much as possible.
00:36:17
Speaker
The sixth point was um the benefits of kind of focused engagement, and which we've talked about in those flow states. um And the seventh element was the losing track of time and context, which can really impact people.
00:36:34
Speaker
And that eighth point was the environmental impact on attention, which I've mentioned where the kind of sensory system, your monotropic kind of attention tunnels can almost kind of get, I describe as kind of like a flooding for me personally, that kind of overload of just input and information where you're even unable to keep splitting your attention. And that can be, yeah, really difficult to manage really. it can lead to meltdowns, shutdowns and over a long term, you know, it can lead to burnout then. They were wonderfully summarized. Thank you, Helen.
00:37:05
Speaker
ah got Like I said, I've got loads of notes here. So there's probably a lot more questions as well. um So one of the things I think many people think, and I want your view on whether or not this is correct, Many people think that autistic people are monotropic thinkers and people who have ADHD are polytropic thinkers.
00:37:27
Speaker
Is that accurate? i'm No, that's a misconception. um So I thought i had I had mentioned that, but I haven't mentioned it, have I? So no, that is a misconception. And as the monotropism questionnaire has shown, that the People that scored the highest out of any cohort in the monotropism questionnaire were all DHDs, those that were autistic and ADHD.
00:37:50
Speaker
um So the theory of monotropism is helping to kind of explain the lived experience for autistic and ADHD people.
00:38:01
Speaker
and Polytropism, where your attention is more smoothly and even and evenly distributed, shall we say, generally describes the way people think that who are not autistic and not ADHD. So you're most neurotypical people is how I would probably summarize that. That is very, no, that's very helpful because I've heard that many times actually. um Yeah, I think there's a misconception that if you're ADHD, then you've got loads of things going on. So you're you're constantly, you've got multiple channels open, going going kind of deeper and all of your attention or resources being pulled towards fewer things at and any one time and how that impacts you know your sensory system, your communication, the way you socialize, the way you manage and plan
Resources for Further Understanding
00:38:49
Speaker
your day. Yeah.
00:38:50
Speaker
Okay. So my final question, um how can we adapt to environments? And you have touched on this Helen throughout, I guess, and and and thinking about some strategies, but um how can we change, not the world, that might be a bit big for today in this podcast. Yeah.
00:39:07
Speaker
But what can we do to better support people who think in a monotropic way? Yeah, I think it's it's general generally it's about being neuroaffirming, isn't it? And not not just being neurodiversity kind of light, you know, and kind of doing that the tick box things of of being neurodiversity affirming. It's about really thinking about and shifting ah the way we design and expect.
00:39:27
Speaker
design our kind of spaces, our expectations ah of people and and the way we interact with each other. It's not about fixing people. you know It's moving away from those behaviorist kind of models and approaches, especially in education where autistic people are... Certainly even going back to my own teacher training, you know was i was trained through a behaviorist model and as I did all of the kind of PECs, communication, support strategies, social stories, encouraging children to kind of sit appropriately, talk appropriately, you know, in in the right way and turn taking and in the right expected way, all framed through a very neurotypical lens of how people think children should, should be, and which kind of goes against their authentic identity and it can cause ah cause a lot lot of harm. And I think more people are recognising
00:40:18
Speaker
the harm of behaviorism now. ah and by embracing the theory of monotropism, it helps us, um, think of ways we can change the environment as opposed to changing, um, the theory, um, people. I really liked Luke Bearden's, um, Luke Bearden's a doctor at Sheffield University and and his kind of golden equation is autism plus environment equals outcomes.
00:40:47
Speaker
So when we're talking about autistic people, monotropic people, ADHD people, we're talking about ways that we need to change the environment to improve their outcomes and to improve their wellbeing and not not change them as people.
00:41:02
Speaker
So there's a few things that I think could could help being aware of kind of sensory environments depending, there's no there's no kind of fixed list here because it's going to obviously depend on the person. So it needs to be very flexible and adaptable, but certainly for me, when I'm thinking about an environment that would help myself, I don't want anything too loud.
00:41:23
Speaker
or too bright. ah kind of like kind of dimp dim areas, like only lots of soft soft lighting, and not too much other sound going on around me. you know Things like wearing ear defenders can be really helpful. So in classrooms, it's having those those quiet areas and in offices that people can can go to. Having sensory tools that are accessible for everybody so people aren't just singled out.
00:41:46
Speaker
because of their sensory needs. So everybody's got the got the same access to things. Having kind of protected time in your day for that for that deep focus and time for your interests and passions is really important. Autistic people's passions and interests are far more than hobbies. I think people sometimes think, oh, they're just like really obsessed with something or oh that's their hobby that they're just really fixated with. And that kind of needs reframing. Autistic passions and interests are ah more than...
00:42:16
Speaker
hobbies to a lot of autistic people it's it's really what sustains you it's what gives brings you joy what supports your well-being and as i've explained when you're engaged in that flow state with your with the things that interest you your passions it can restore your energy it can help prevent burnout so for for um children that are really struggling for example in school more time with their with their passions and interests could really really help them kind of yeah we replenish their energies energy really um and support support flow states wonderful helen that was honestly it's been so insightful chatting to you and i could have chatted to you for a lot longer but we we have run out of of time and Yeah, is this my own interest? so I knew this would be a huge info dump for me, which is why I tried to make some notes. But thank you very much. Honestly, it's been lovely. Where can people find out more about you, Helen? Do you want to direct people to your website or anything? My own website is autisticrealms.com, www.autisticrealms.com. I'm on most social media most days. I'm on Facebook, Blue Sky, um LinkedIn, LinkedIn.
00:43:28
Speaker
um instagram um as i said i also work closely with fergus murray on monotropism.org which is the main website for all things autism related and it also houses the archives of dina murray who was the original one of the original um researchers and p person who conceptualized monotropism with when lawson back in the 90s um so have a look on monotropism.org as well That's great. um We will pop your and website and stuff in in in the notes when this goes out. So and I guess to all our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. If you've got any questions or comments about anything that you've heard today, then please get in touch with us at info at NEP. hyphen as.org.uk and you can also follow the northeast autism society on facebook instagram or linkedin and the podcast this is autism comes out every month and you can subscribe on apple podcasts google or spotify so you never miss an episode and we'll see you all soon thank you very much by bye now