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The Tartarian Empire
70 Plays3 years ago
In this episode of "What the conspiracy!" M introduces Josh to the history of the Tartarian Empire!
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Josh is @monkeyfluids and M is @conspiracism on Twitter
You can also contact us at: podcastconspiracy@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Conspiracy Game
00:00:00
Speaker
Right, let's get this out of the way. You are going to try to trick me to reveal what is the what the conspiracy I'm pulling out of my not at all metaphorical hat this week. So, rather than let you know, let me finish, rather than let you attempt to bamboozle or fool me with your mouth shapes, I'm going to tell you two lies and one truth, with the truth being related to the topic of this week.
00:00:25
Speaker
That should help you in your guessing. Okay, let's play. Statement one. The Earth is an oblate spheroid. Well, that's obviously true. Obviously? Really? Have you been to space, Josh? Have you seen the grand majesty of the planet? How do you know it's not toroidal, or a complex geometrical shape made out of cheese?
00:00:47
Speaker
Um, well... Well, you don't. You don't.
Debating the Truth: Earth's Shape and Caesar's Death
00:00:51
Speaker
Statement two. Julius Caesar is dead. Well, he is. Or is he? You could survive 23 stabbings and maybe that would make him functionally immortal. See? Already you are realising just how tricky this game is. Statement three. Soylent is people. Soylent green. Green, brown, beige, whatever colour you please.
00:01:16
Speaker
Okay, well, I think the last one has to be a lie. You can't get me with a pop culture reference, dear Professor. And I'm going to assume Julius Caesar is dead because, well, such an historical and politically influential individual was still alive. We'd know about it. I mean, he was the Winston Peters of his day and he's died. He's died politically at least twice. So that means the truth is about the shape of the earth. Yes. Congratulations. You have spotted the truth amongst the lies.
00:01:44
Speaker
So the episode, rather, is about some conspiracy about the shape of the planet? No. It's a conspiracy set on the face of the Earth. That's not very helpful. I never said it would be helpful. You literally did. You said that should help you in your guessing. There is no way you can prove that. I'm an audio vampire. My voice doesn't record. But then how do we produce a podcast?
00:02:12
Speaker
Oh, I get Rutger Howard to re-record my lines in post. Yeah, but he's dead, or... or... or is he? He's seen things you wouldn't believe. Backflipped to the shoulder of Brian, he watched C-Span in the dark, drinking a tanhales of stout. And you think all those moments would be lost in time, like bears down the drain? Toodles? Time to fly.
Hosts Introduce Themselves and Discuss Recording Challenges
00:02:34
Speaker
Hmm, accurate.
00:02:44
Speaker
The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Addison and Dr. M. Denteth. Hello and welcome to the Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. I am Josh Addison sitting at home in Auckland, New Zealand. They are Dr. M. Denteth hydrating responsibly in Zhuhai, China.
00:03:05
Speaker
Well it is 32 degrees outside and I've got very sweaty coming into the office so I need to replace the liquids I've extruded by putting new liquids into one of my orifices. It's the best way of doing it. Now it's what the conspiracy and it's your turn.
00:03:22
Speaker
So before I basically just kick my feet up, turn off our notes and sit back and let you do all the work, have we anything to say in the way of administration, sort of preambulatory stuff? Well, this week is a bit of an experiment in that I'm recording from the office and not my apartment as kind of a solution to a problem which hopefully will be resolved by recording here, which has been the last two episodes we've recorded since my being in Zhuhai.
00:03:51
Speaker
We've had issues in that if you watch the video version, you will actually see exactly what happened. Moments where basically Josh and I just lose connection and we also lose our train of thought. For those who listen to the podcast, you may not have spotted the issue so much, but the last two episodes have been an absolute pain to do in the edit. So we're hoping by changing location, we can make that problem just disappear.
Behind the Scenes: Production and Editing Hurdles
00:04:19
Speaker
Although I have to say, as you delivered that bit, you all broke up and went wonky for me, so we'll see how it goes. As we said before, the setup we have records our sound streams separately at each end, which means you, the listener, get perfect quality when everything's added together. But we, the editors, have to do a little bit of work to smooth around the edges when things go wonky. Yes.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yes, there's a lot more production in this podcast than you actually might think, given the content and the delivery and the way that post-production actually works. There's a lot more going on in the background than maybe you thought, although possibly only slightly more than you thought. About five percent. Probably. I don't know. Well, if that's all there is, then how about you you play a jaunty little sting and we can get right into it. Indeed. Let's play that sting about now.
00:05:18
Speaker
It's time to play Want the Conspiracy. Well, you kind of gave the game away at the start there by saying that it's set on planet Earth. I mean, out of the countless trillions and trillions of planets, you've already narrowed it down to a single one. So I think you might have might have made a minus stumble there. Specifically for the Wii,
00:05:46
Speaker
I'm going to guess China. I think you've been investigating local conspiracies to try and get me one there. Either that, or it's been too hot for you to leave your apartment, and so you've actually cobbled one together just from what you could find around your living space, which means that the- The conspiracy of the empty noodle packet you've got me, you've got me.
00:06:10
Speaker
So in that case, I think the when is probably going to be last Tuesday, but also most of the 18th century, and the what
00:06:24
Speaker
It's been a while since I tried and failed with a dairy-related conspiracy. So I think we're due one. I think we're finally due.
Unveiling the Tartarian Empire Conspiracy
00:06:35
Speaker
So I'm going to say it will involve full cream milk. Interesting. You've almost got one of the questions. Almost.
00:06:45
Speaker
Now, before I reveal the answer to the three questions, no. Unfortunately, the Derry thing is probably never going to happen until such time it does. So my my bonus question is, Josh, if you were to list from the Roman Empire onwards the big empires and civilizational complexes which control and influence the development of the northern hemisphere, who would you consider to be the big players? So from the Romans onwards. Yeah. Yeah. And the northern hemisphere.
00:07:15
Speaker
And the Northern Hemisphere. Yeah. So the big one, well, I mean, you've got after the Romans, you had your sort of Normandy, Frenchy ones and your Germany sort of European ones. Obviously, then over in Asia, you had the Chinese civilizations going through various dynasties and Korea and Japan, what have you, and the various other areas.
00:07:42
Speaker
of Asia. India was always going fairly strong for a good wee while. And then moving forwards a little bit, then you get your Anglo-Saxons and all your business leading up to the British Empire. The Dutch, I guess the Dutch had a bit to do. The Portuguese, they managed to get their hooks into Brazil. I'm guessing I haven't named the one that you're going to talk about.
00:08:05
Speaker
No, you've managed to not mention the most technologically advanced and sophisticated culture which controlled the world for almost 1,000 years. It's quite surprising. Your historical education is very, very lacking because today's what the conspiracy is a conspiracy theory about hidden history.
00:08:24
Speaker
it can turn it concerns it concerns the northern hemisphere although only mostly about the northern hemisphere there's some southern hemisphere stuff as well we'll get to towards the end of our discussion and the win it's around about a thousand years ago but the plot continues to go on to this day because job particular i want to introduce you to the tartarian empire
00:08:56
Speaker
Oh, them, right. They're the inventors of steak tartare, right? No, at least it's not that I'm aware. I mean, they were a vast and technologically advanced culture. I don't even know that steak tartare is a particularly technologically advanced way of causing meat. Was it steak tartare? Am I thinking of tartare sauce, which you have in McDonald's fillet of fishes? Did they invent the fillet of fish?
00:09:19
Speaker
Well, I mean, they are a vast and technologically cultured culture. And the filet de fish is certainly edible. One of the bits of modern capitalism, which seems unnecessary. So possibly part of being technologically advanced. I mean, as far as I can tell, most technologically advanced cultures are cultures which engage in a large amount of waste. And the filet de fish seems like a very wasteful product. So, sure, yet the Tartarian empire
00:09:46
Speaker
Among it, many, many inventions was the fillet of fish. Excellent. That is the only fact I intend to take from this episode. Well, I keep talking anyway. Yeah, there's probably not many facts to take from this episode at all, because this is what the conspiracy episodes. So obviously, the history I'm about to tell you is probably not going to be true. Oh, well. OK, so the Tartarian Empire was a vast and, as I said, technologically advanced culture, which originated in north central Asia.
00:10:16
Speaker
not China, but the area that used to be called Tartary on maps and is now typically associated with the geographical region of Siberia. So it's probably important at this stage to note that there are maps which mention Tartaria or Tartary,
00:10:37
Speaker
but those are maps which are indicating a geographical region. That region is not necessarily the same as the region that was controlled by the Tartarian Empire itself as we'll get to. So the Tartarian Empire is the true story of Tartary and not the stuff that you might have been taught at school, although how much about Siberia were you actually taught at school?
00:11:01
Speaker
uh taught taught at school nothing um absorbed from popular culture uh it's cold it's cold and they have prisons there yes but actually wasn't one of the Bond films they start with an outbreak from a Siberian prison oh almost certainly yeah
00:11:19
Speaker
Now the Tartarians were a powerful and influential people whose works and reach spread across the northern hemisphere and possibly beyond, and they either influenced or built fast cities and infrastructure all over the world.
00:11:34
Speaker
And yet around about a thousand years ago, although the state is disputed, either due to a sudden cataclysm or a steady decline due to warfare, Tartaria fell, its cities and architectures were buried or destroyed, and its history has been deliberately erased by the cultures that came after it.
00:11:59
Speaker
Ooh, deliberately erased. Okay, so now we're getting conspiratorial. Well, let's just say what the conspiracy, I mean, if you don't know about the Tartarian Empire, there must be a rationale as to why you don't know about the Tartarian Empire. Of course, there could be more than one rationale as to why you don't know about the Tartarian Empire, but we're going to pursue the conspiracy theory angle at this particular juncture.
00:12:22
Speaker
Now, some buildings have survived the fall of Tartaria, but they've been falsely made out to be the work of contemporary builders.
00:12:32
Speaker
And indeed, some of these ancient, at least 1,000-year-old, Tartarian bits of architecture have been inexpertly modified to make them look non-Tartarian in origin. So these buildings are often said to be modern, but a large number of them turn out to be at least 1,000 years old. And actually, let me give you some examples of Tartarian architecture and buildings that you might know of
00:13:02
Speaker
which you don't know the true origin of. So the Taj Mahal built by the Tartarians and not by the Indians. The pyramids of Egypt built by the Tartarians and not by the Egyptians. The Great Wall of China built by the Tartarians. And why did the Tartarians build the Great Wall of China, Josh?
00:13:26
Speaker
Oh, I saw that film. It had Matt Damon in it, and there were aliens, lizard-lizard space aliens that landed in a meteorite and were rampaging across China. No. No, the Great Wall of China was built by the Tartarians to keep
Exploring Theories: Mud Flood and Warfare
00:13:39
Speaker
the Chinese out of Tartaria. Pedro Pascal. He was in it too. He was the sidekick. And Willem Dafoe. Weird film. Yeah, I remember seeing the trailer for that and going, I don't think I ever need to watch this film.
00:13:53
Speaker
I would say you don't. It's Shang Yu Mu, so it's very pretty. It's the guy who did sort of Hero and House of Flying Daggers and what have you. So it looks great. From memory, very good looking films, but rather light on plot and character motivation. Yeah, yeah. No, I think you could live quite happily without seeing it, but I did because it was on Netflix and there you go. And you had no self-control.
00:14:20
Speaker
Also it's bestian star fort. Do you know what a bestian star fort is? I don't know. So a bestian star fort is a fort which is a bestian in the shape of a star so it's got basically five pointed triangles coming out from a central location which end up being very well developed forts for protection because basically you can have a whole bunch of guns or
00:14:45
Speaker
and you can have all of the people actually inside the fort. You've got really, really strong fortified walls. And the thing which is interesting about best gen star forts is that you find a lot of them in Europe.
00:14:59
Speaker
And you find a fair number of them in the Americas, but you also find an awful lot of them out around Asia, particularly around the area of Malaysia and Hong Kong. So there are a lot of these bastion star forts and people who are advocates of the Tartarian Empire go, well,
00:15:19
Speaker
Why would you find this common architectural style, both in Europe and Asia, when they're not meant to be connected, unless one culture built both of them? Sebastian Starford's also put forward as being evidence of the Tartarian Empire. For a specific example, for listeners of the show who want to actually go and look at an image of a Tartarian building,
00:15:44
Speaker
One of the major Tartarian bits of architecture, which is still said to be standing, is the Singer Building in Lower Manhattan. Now this building was ostensibly designed by Ernest Flagg in 1908. It's a 27-story building. It was, at the time of its apparent construction, the tallest building in the world.
00:16:08
Speaker
And it was demolished in 1967, ostensibly because it lacked office space. And actually for a kind of interesting link to 9-11, when the Singer Building was demolished,
00:16:23
Speaker
it was the tallest ever building to be demolished in peacetime, which is to say that taller buildings were in fact destroyed in wartime, but the Singer Building is the first tall building of its type to ever be peacefully demolished. And actually looking into this case of, I wonder what they
00:16:44
Speaker
what they think about the whole the whole Twin Towers destruction thing because technically the Twin Towers were not destroyed in wartime. They were destroyed in peacetime, but they also weren't peacefully demolished. I think there's kind of interesting lacuna here as to when we talk about peaceful versus warful demolition,
00:17:04
Speaker
actually where does the Twin Towers fit in? And also where does it fit in depending on who you think was responsible for the structure of the Twin Towers? I thought that was kind of interesting sidebar here. So yeah, the Singer Building was the world's tallest building. It was also the first tall building to ever be demolished of that particular size. And people take it that this is actually one of the last remnants of the Tartarian Empire.
00:17:29
Speaker
And it was destroyed not because it lacked office space, but because people asking very awkward questions of who designed that building. That building really stands out. Hmm. I'm asking questions. All the buildings gone. My questions have just completely disappeared. Right. I'm struggling here, I'll admit.
00:17:51
Speaker
First of all, the Taj Mahal and the pyramids in Egypt are very different looking things and made of different stuff and for completely different purposes. What is characteristic of this Tartarian architecture that people can look at things as different as those and say, ah, we can show that they were actually all the same work of the same civilization?
00:18:19
Speaker
You ask a very good question and I'm going to answer that and you're going to immediately think of the answer but I don't want you to express that answer until we get to the end of the episode because it kind of gives the game away as to what's going on here. Okay. The people who are advocates of the Tartarian Empire hypothesis, the things that the Taj Mahal, the pyramids and the Great Wall of China were in fact built by the Tartarians and not by the Indians, the Egyptians or the Chinese, is that they argue
00:18:49
Speaker
These particular structures stand out as being unusual and thus the unusualness needs to be explained because obviously the people who were living in those locations could not have designed or built those buildings.
00:19:05
Speaker
Now, you've probably already glommed on to an obvious explanation here as to why people think that, but we'll come back to that later on. Let's talk ever so slightly about what happened to Tartaria. Because of course, if the Tartarian Empire did exist, the question is, what happened to it?
00:19:24
Speaker
And the answer is, it's vague. As I said before, there are kind of two hypotheses. Either there was a sudden cataclysm that basically made the Tartarian Empire disappear, or it was a gradual decline. Advocates of the sudden cataclysm hypothesis claim that there was an apocalyptic flood of mud
00:19:46
Speaker
which basically buried all of the existing buildings and cities of the Tartarian Empire, effectively allowing nature to erase the Tartarian Empire's existence from the face of the Earth. Okay. Now what's interesting about this, I'll let you have your finger on this first. I just wanted to jump back briefly. This building in America
Evidence and Misinterpretations: Basement Windows and Maps
00:20:13
Speaker
which they claim was built in the early 1900s, but is actually, what, centuries old? A thousand years old or something? Possibly a thousand years old, yes. Which means when people arrived in the area, that building would have been there and only that building, unless there were more and they demolished others of them to make New York. That seems like something someone would have mentioned.
00:20:40
Speaker
You're already grasping on an explanation here. When people turned up in the Americas, those cities were already there. I see. America's history has been rewritten. I see. So basically the entirety of American history, the population of America is essentially a Gestalt hermit crab living in the
00:21:08
Speaker
living in the discarded shell of another civilization? I mean, that's already true if you don't believe in the Tartarian Empire. Well, yes, I suppose. Yes, the First Nations civilizations were large with enormous cities and trading routes and what have you, which all just kind of went away. Disobedient, arranged, and nobody talks about it as if that history does not exist. Food for thought?
00:21:35
Speaker
But anyway, I feel I'm getting ahead of things, so do carry on. An apocalyptic mudslide is one theory.
00:21:41
Speaker
Well, and also what's interesting about the mud hypothesis is actually there's already a civilization that we know this did occur to, which is the Indus Valley or Harappan civilization, which is in the north of India, which was basically a civilization of cities along a major trade route, which was a river. That river was prone to flooding and due to a change in the water table,
00:22:07
Speaker
Basically, the area of the Indus Valley that the Harappan civilization was located in got flooded with an awful lot of mud, and almost all evidence of the Harappan civilization has been buried under meters and meters of mud, which actually gets you to a really interesting thing about the labor cost of archaeology, and that we know about the Harappan civilization because the Victorians had access to very cheap labor, so they were able to dig these cities up.
00:22:37
Speaker
modern archaeologists are having to rely on the cityscapes that were dug up by the Victorians because it turns out that employing people to dig through 10 to 20 meters of mud to find evidence of a previous civilization is incredibly expensive and not something you can get on a grant these days. So the Harappan civilization kind of disappeared.
00:22:59
Speaker
due to a tidal mud apocalypse. It isn't on the scale of the claim of the Tartarian Empire, which spanned the entirety of the northern hemisphere. Okay, so that's theory one. No, there's more, because one of the bits...
00:23:19
Speaker
One of the bits of evidence that's used for the mud explanation or the apocalypse is the fact that there are an awful lot of basements in buildings, particularly in America, where these basements have street-level basement windows. So they're the kind of thing where you've got little walkway down into a basement and there's a window and people have gone
00:23:46
Speaker
Why were they building basements with windows unless the level of the ground has changed substantially? Which does raise the question, Josh, why did people build basements with windows back in the day? For fun?
00:24:03
Speaker
to give the giant Judas bug humanoid cockroach things a way to come in and visit them. We're not talking about Mimic 1, Mimic 2, but we may talk about Mimic 3, which is also the film Rare Window with a giant cockroach. With giant bugs, yes. Good film, good film. Mimic 3 is actually a good film.
00:24:27
Speaker
No, I was just going to say, I don't know. I do not know why they had windows in their basements. Yeah, so that actually is an interesting question, because when you actually consider the answer, it's actually quite interesting. That's a particular respect. We'll come back to that in just a minute. So yeah, so the flood was basically somewhere between 1,000 to 500 years ago, and has been historicized as the great flood of Noah in order to disguise actually how recent that flood was.
00:24:55
Speaker
Now, of course, there's a big question here as to how big was this flood, given the Tartarian Empire basically spanned almost every known country in the northern hemisphere. It was in Europe. It was in Siberia. It seems to have been in North America at the time. It seems like a fairly large flood, which doesn't seem particularly plausible.
00:25:20
Speaker
But that is one of their hypotheses. The other hypothesis is that the Tartarian Empire fell because of war with other competing nation states. Right, which was, if they were all over the world, I'm assuming the competing nation states would have been pretty much all of them?
00:25:39
Speaker
Yes, so there seems to have been some kind of grand alliance between all of the states of Western Europe versus the Tartarian Empire. People who are advocates of the warfare decline of the Tartarian Empire claim that basically the Napoleonic Wars have been rewritten to disguise the fact that Napoleon was leading warfare against the Tartarians, which began the decline of the Tartarian Empire
00:26:09
Speaker
and the Tartarian Empire was finally finished off with both World War I and World War II, which were not actually fought against the Nazis at all. There's a cover story for the true enemy of humanity, the Tartarians. Right, so when is this downfall dated to then? Your apocalyptic mudslide I'm assuming was a long time ago, but this slow downfall sounds like it was sort of centuries in the making.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yes, so if you're an advocate of the mud apocalypse, then the Tartarian Empire probably collapsed about a thousand years ago. If you're an advocate of the steady decline due to warfare, then that decline may have started a thousand years ago, as a variety of different nation states basically started fighting against the Tartarian Empire. But the Tartarian Empire itself was finally eradicated.
00:27:02
Speaker
sometime in the middle of the last century, which would then explain why people went around then destroying evidence of the empire, like the Singer Building in the 1960s, as they basically went, well, look, they're gone now. Now we need to get rid of every single bit of evidence that might make people ask, but who built that building and why were they so advanced?
00:27:28
Speaker
Okay, well, it's an interesting story. You want evidence now, don't you? That is exactly what I was about to ask you. What actual evidence do people point to for any sort of justification of this theory?
00:27:43
Speaker
All right, evidence point one. There are maps showing Tartary as a great country. Now, admittedly, these might be showing the geographical region known as Tartary, now known as Siberia. So maps on their own aren't particularly indicative. Although there are interesting maps that show Tartary and North America using the same color coding on one map.
00:28:09
Speaker
which then goes well surely it's not now the region of Tartary because it makes no sense to link Siberia with North America. It makes much more sense if they're color coded as with say yellow that this is showing an area that's controlled by a singular people which then gets you to evidence point two.
00:28:30
Speaker
Tartaria had not just one but two flags and as we know according to Eddie Izzard, having a flag definitely means you are a country. That's what makes you a country, yep. Well where do we know these flags from? They're in books as flags of Tartaria. It's a black griffin on a yellow background. Right, but what books?
00:28:54
Speaker
The book of made up flags? No, no, books of flags, history books. Part of the problem here is that a lot of countries had yellow-backed flags with black griffins. So it's not actually particularly good evidence on its own once again. So let me now read to you from a CIA document.
Historical Revisionism: CIA Documents and Soviet Influence
00:29:16
Speaker
So this document was written in June of 1957. It was declassified in 1999. For those of you who want to go and look at the document in full, the document is CIA-RDP78-0277R0002009002-6.
00:29:42
Speaker
It's entitled National Development Under Communism. And I quote, I believe, from page 12. Or let us take the matter of history, which along with religion, language and literature constitute the core of a people's cultural heritage. Here again, the communists have interfered in a shameless manner. For example, on the 9th of August 1944, the Central Committee of the Communist Party sitting in Moscow issued a directive ordering the party's Tar-Tere
00:30:12
Speaker
Provincial Committee to proceed to a scientific revision of the history of Tartaria, to liquidate serious shortcomings and mistakes of a nationalistic character committed by individual writers and historians in dealing with Tartarian history. In other words, Tartarian history was to be rewritten. Let us be frank, was to be falsified in order to eliminate references to great Russian aggressions and to hide the facts of the real cause of the Tartarian-Russian relations.
00:31:07
Speaker
Okay, and...
00:31:11
Speaker
And they're not talking about Tartaria as just another name for Siberia there? Well, that's a very good question. Are they? Well, I mean, I don't know because I have no notes in front of me and you know everything in this particular exchange. You've glommed on to the important point there. Because if you start looking up the Tartarian Empire stuff online, you will find a reference to the CIA document.
00:31:36
Speaker
and you'll find this paragraph copy-pasted onto websites galore. That is a quote, as I say, from page 12. If you read the entire document, you get a flavour of exactly what the author is trying to say. And actually, it's quite an interesting document to read in full because the author or authors are very, very pleased with particular terms of phrase.
00:32:03
Speaker
that they use. So there's a frequent refrain found on almost every page which is such as the manner in which the communists respect Muslim beliefs and customs, Muslim national and cultural institutions. So they're pointing out that the communists came into power
00:32:20
Speaker
on opposition of the Tsarist form of Russian rulership. They initially said, look, we are one people together. We celebrate diversity. We want everybody to be able to express their cultural institutions and practices.
00:32:38
Speaker
And then within a few years, the central committee was going, no, you must act like us. You must talk like us. You must stop. You must stop acting in your own individual ways. So the entire document is about how the communists, even though they rode in on diversity is good after about a decade or so, we're going.
00:32:57
Speaker
Acti-diversity isn't very good for party unities, so stop being diverse and start being Russian. So the entire document is actually about how the Russians were basically reracing the entire history of the Russian region.
00:33:12
Speaker
to make everyone Russian rather than, say, people Ukrainian or Kazakhstakian or from the area of Siberia. And they were particularly interested in making sure that religious diversity kind of disappeared so that the Soviet Union would not have to worry about religious strife. There's an entire section there about how initially the Soviet Union was actually quite keen on Muslims having Sharia law courts.
00:33:41
Speaker
and then weren't so keen on it. And actually what's particularly amusing about the CIA document is that the authors of the document are going, isn't it terrible? The Russians are against Sharia law. I mean, it just shows they have no respect for people and their cultural institutions.
00:34:01
Speaker
And it's just kind of interesting to look back on how the CIA were talking about Sharia law in the 1960s versus the bugbear that Sharia law has become in the modern age. You can't really imagine the CIA advocating that Muslims should be allowed to have their own legal courts now, can you?
00:34:20
Speaker
Not now, but yes, I suppose that doesn't surprise me even going back to the 80s when the Mujahideen were the good guys in Rambo 3 and whatever other action movies were set in that region at the time. And then, yes, allies become enemies and enemies become allies and all that weird geopolitical bollocks that they do seem to enjoy.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yes, yes. History is a complex beast. So this particular CIA document is not about the rewriting of history to get rid of the Tartarian Empire. This document is about the rewriting of Muslim history within Russia. And given that many of the Muslims in Russia were to be found around the area of Tartary and Siberia, the CIA writers are using the terminology of the day as opposed to referring to the empire which has disappeared.
00:35:16
Speaker
But it's a classic case of taking one paragraph in a longer document and by robbing it of its context, suddenly it seems to say something and actually doesn't. And that kind of gets us to the contextual stuff about the other evidence.
00:35:35
Speaker
When we talked about, say, the Taj Mahal, the pyramids of Egypt, and the Great Wall of China, I kind of said there's quite an obvious explanation which maybe people might be overlooking. What was I talking about there? I'm not sure, because I couldn't see an explanation for why you'd think those things would be there. Oh, are we talking aliens?
00:35:57
Speaker
Well, we're talking about the motivation behind aliens built these things, yes. What is the ultimate motivation behind aliens built the pyramids the Egyptians didn't?
00:36:10
Speaker
Oh, racism. Good old fashioned racism. Those dark skinned people. How could the Egyptians build a pyramid? I mean, building a pyramid's really quite complex, despite the fact that actually a pyramid's in very simple shapes to build. It's pretty much a triangle-shaped pile of logs. The Taj Mahal. I mean, and I'm putting on my pretending to be racist voice here.
00:36:33
Speaker
I mean, they're such a dirty, vile people. How could they build something so beautiful? It's basically racism. These people cannot imagine that a particular culture built X or Y. So they have to imagine that there was some other culture which built it, which history has basically removed.
00:36:54
Speaker
in the same respect that when Eric Von Daniken was advocating that the pyramids were built by space aliens, that was a case of Von Daniken going, well, I can't imagine the Egyptians could have built something so majestic when we were still living in mud huts over in Europe. So it must have been some other people. In fact, it must have been some non-human set of people, because there's no way that non-European humans could have built something so majestic before we ever got round to it.
00:37:25
Speaker
That always reminds me, I saw, I think it was a Twitter thread a while ago talking about how the Victorians were just the absolute worst human beings in all of history, and how
00:37:36
Speaker
how the Nazis were amateurs. The Nazis made a big show and dance about their white supremacism and got their asses kicked by the entire world for it. Whereas the Victorians, who were even more racist, basically kept it quiet and didn't make a whole lot of propaganda and kept it out of their art and their poetry and what have you.
00:38:02
Speaker
and managed to have quite a long-lasting empire based on other contempt for other races.
00:38:12
Speaker
they didn't invent the concentration camps. Nazis just borrowed that idea from their predecessors. So yes, yes. So other bits of evidence. So along with the racism that kind of underpins how could the Indians have built X or the Egyptians have built Y, a lot is also made of the fact that there are really, really, really ornate buildings.
00:38:40
Speaker
up until about the middle of the last century and then suddenly buildings going go from being incredibly ornate with gargoyles everywhere to being incredibly plain and people are going well why why is it that we used to be so ostentatious and then we stopped unless what happened
00:39:00
Speaker
is that a superior culture was replaced by a cruder culture, and maybe our history is incorrect. Now, can you think of another explanation as to why maybe things used to be ornate and they aren't anymore?
Architecture Decline and Misunderstood Maps
00:39:14
Speaker
Lead paint? I mean, it's around about the same time period, but no. I'm thinking more economic. Oh, where are we talking? The Great Depression? The middle of the last century.
00:39:29
Speaker
over the last century. So, you know, just prior to World War II, and actually probably around about the time of World War I. Oh, Great Depression's 30s. A bit earlier than that, economic stuff. All the drugs were legal? No, it's labor costs. Did we all just get completely wasted? The what, sorry? Labor costs. Getting rid of slavery.
00:39:53
Speaker
Well, no, no, just the fact we used to have really, really cheap, I mean, let's not downplay slavery here. But we used to have very cheap labor available when it came to building. And so you could make buildings incredibly ornate. After World War II in particular, where suddenly the labor force is a lot smaller, you actually don't have the budget to make ornate buildings anymore. You make much plainer buildings as a consequence, unless you get a stylistic change.
00:40:22
Speaker
And so the reason why buildings used to look incredibly ornate and don't in this modern day is it's really expensive to make an ornate building and people just can't be bothered these days. Now, all that's what they want you to believe. Well, that's I mean, it's true. I mean, I am now denying the Tartarian Empire hypothesis. Those placements with windows.
00:40:42
Speaker
The reason why so many basements have windows is a lot of the basements with windows that we're talking about were built in an age where there wasn't internal lighting to your house. So if you wanted to have a basement room and you wanted to use it during the day, you needed to build an alcove with a window because otherwise you've just built a dark room you can't do anything with. But what is the window where you put a lamp or something?
00:41:13
Speaker
No, so the window allows sunlight to come in during daytime. But I thought it was under if it's a basement, isn't it underground? Well, no, because so when they talk about these basements, the windows, they're talking about basements where you've got a kind of alcove with that street level which goes beneath the ground and then you've got a window in set. No. Well, there we go. So you don't know much about basements. Take that, Tartarians.
00:41:40
Speaker
I know nothing about basements with, well, I do now, but... I mean, we also don't come from a city which has basements with windows because our large-scale cities were built after we had internal lighting. And so, yeah, so I mean, other issues, I mean, it's a mistake to look at maps that talk about tartary and assume it's a country rather than a region. It's a mistake to think that because someone has drawn a flag,
00:42:09
Speaker
that the flag is accurate to a location. It's also the fact that no one really called Tartary in the region of Tartaria. That's a kind of Western name for a region. We can say, ah, it's a region over there. What should we call it? We shall call it Tartaria. What should we call that place over there? We shall call it Greece. Is that what the people in Greece call it? Oh, no, no, no. They call it the Hellenic States. Oh, Hellenic States. It's far too hard to say. We'll call it Greece instead.
00:42:38
Speaker
There's a long history of the West going, ah, we're going to call X Y. I mean, China. China is not the name of the country I'm in, even though if you talk about it in English, it is. I mean, it's it's, you know, there's a long history of Westerners going, we're just going to call the country by a different name because we really can't be bothered using the one that you came up with yourself. Hmm. Yes. Still not clear on where Germany comes from, actually.
00:43:06
Speaker
And that's right next door to England, so yes. Yeah. I mean, I have to assume racism. Yeah, it's probably a fair bet. So where does that leave us? I assume we still have a bunch of diehards who nevertheless are insisting that this is all true secret history.
00:43:26
Speaker
Well, this is where it gets complex.
Rise of the Tartarian Empire Theory and Its Complexities
00:43:29
Speaker
So the theory of the Tartarian empire basically emerged as whole cloth sometime between 2016 and 2017. And it's largely relegated to Reddit and YouTube. On Reddit, there are two major boards, r slash Tartarian architecture and r slash Tartaria. And it's not clear
00:43:52
Speaker
If the boards are entirely made up of true believers, or some true believers and other people who think it's an elaborate game, which means there are shades of QAnon here. There are some people who do sincerely believe there was a Tartarian Empire which is being covered up.
00:44:09
Speaker
And there also appear to be a whole bunch of people who go, well, this is a fun game. I can now take random bits of world history and recast it as being a bit of a mystery and thus enjoy this kind of elaborate prank. So it's a bit hard to know when you're researching the Tartarian empire, whether you're dealing with someone who is having fun with a straight face or someone who is being straight faced about it because they really do believe it's true.
00:44:40
Speaker
Hmm. But also you go to the Tartarian Empire. No, no, no. There's slightly more. So there are some links to other stuff we've discussed. So advocates of the Tartarian Empire have been quite happy to link their discussion with the Forminco chronology we've talked about in the past. Oh, yes. The Russian mathematician who, using stats, has tried to argue that history is being basically compressed.
00:45:10
Speaker
Now he talks about there being a Tartarian empire in the 14th century. This is a problem for some advocates of the Tartarian empire because they claim it's collapsed by that point. So they claim that he's got his statistical analysis wrong there.
00:45:27
Speaker
But Formenko is also the person who links the Tartarian Empire with North America, in that he claims there was a Siberian American empire which disappeared in the 18th century around about the time of colonization, which is the point in which Americans took over existing cities and then rewrote their history to claim that they built them in the first place.
00:45:55
Speaker
Targeted individuals have linked Tartaria to their own persecution, claiming that adherents of either theory are being gaslit by the people who deny the reality of what is really happening.
00:46:15
Speaker
Okay, that's an interesting crossover. I do wonder how large the overlap of that Venn diagram of targeted individual conspiracy theorists and criterion history conspiracy theorists is, but it's an interesting... So there's at least three websites, but that also might only mean there's three people. Yes. And of course, there's some links to good old fashioned antisemitism, which of course goes
00:46:45
Speaker
goes, I mean given we've already talked about the racism angle to the Tartarian Empire was always going to occur, there's an awful lot of discussion in some threads about why Siberia is untouched by the financier and claims about the undermining of the true priestly caste
00:47:08
Speaker
However, there are also some advocates of the Tartarian Empire hypothesis who claim that all of this anti-semitism is in fact a plot to make anti-semitism look bad. So people are going, well look, this has obviously been designed by someone behind the scenes to make us look stupid, although arguably I don't think they need any help. It doesn't sound like it, no, no.
00:47:35
Speaker
So is that it? And finally... Oh god, it keeps going. Finally, there's at least one video on YouTube, and I don't know how serious this one is, that claims that good old Aotearoa New Zealand was part of the Taiterian Empire, because when the Parkia arrived, the buildings and train stations were already here.
00:48:02
Speaker
And the train stations, that's yep. Yes, and the train stations. Good for them, yep that's commitment, nice. Now admittedly I can actually kind of buy this one because given that we appear to have a rail network and we don't do anything with it, it does seem to require some explanation of so why did we build it in the first place if we don't use it unless of course it turned out someone else built it instead.
00:48:32
Speaker
Case closed, Joshua, case closed. Well, that is as good an explanation as any, I suppose. Well, precisely. So is that it? That's it. You're not going to throw any more little things at me? No. Unfortunately, I can't find any Shakespearean stuff. I'm sure there are probably people that are trying to find references to the Tartarian Empire amongst the work of Shakespeare, but not for this episode.
00:48:54
Speaker
No. Okay. Well, an interesting yarn. I was actually quite surprised when you said it had only shown up within the last 10 years. It sounded to me like one of your lost continent things that people have been talking about for decades or centuries. Interesting to see that the classics still reoccur.
00:49:22
Speaker
Now, I should point out this very much is a minorator... I can't say... minoratorian? Minoritarian? That's the one. Minoritarian. There are minor tours as well. Well, I mean, actually, there's a whole conspiracy theory about the Minoan civilization. We won't get into that right now. Not today. So yes, there are... I mean, this is a very minority view. There are not that many people who are advocates of the Tartarian Empire. But at the same time, it is quite a fascinating story.
00:49:52
Speaker
Well, that's all we have. And that's all good, basically. Now, I should say, while the internet connection has not been as bad as it has been in previous weeks, and that at no point has it died completely, and we've had to wait a second for it to establish itself,
00:50:11
Speaker
It has been a little bit ropey, which means that in some of the cases when you were explaining things and I was nodding politely, I actually had no idea what you were saying. So I'm looking forward to getting the final footage and editing it together for the video so I can actually get the entire story and not merely most of it. So that'll be exciting for me. As exciting, I hope as has been for you, the listener, to listen to it in the first place. Indeed.
00:50:41
Speaker
But that's it for another episode of what the conspiracy we do, of course, have a bonus content for the bonus episode for the patrons to record after this one. So we have
00:50:55
Speaker
We want to have another look at Haiti, because as we said in the bonus content over the last couple of weeks, despite the precedent of a country being assassinated in fairly spectacular fashion, it's kind of dropped out of the news cycle, partly because the Olympics then happened and partly because it's just a little country that the Western world doesn't pay enough attention to.
00:51:20
Speaker
But we've had a look, so stuff is still going on in Haiti and it just keeps getting more convoluted. And also we're going to talk about Emmanuel Macron and his mysterious owl. Yes, you heard here Emmanuel Macron and his mysterious owl.
00:51:40
Speaker
So if you'd like to hear about that and you are a patron, then just keep on listening. If you'd like to hear about that and you're not a patron, then just become one by going to patreon.com and looking for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. And if you're not interested in that, well, there's no accounting for you, I'm afraid. But thank you for listening this far anyway.
00:51:59
Speaker
So I think that at this particular point in time, the only thing that needs to be done is for me to say goodbye. And for me to say murder, she wrote. Excellent.
00:52:29
Speaker
you