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With Sir Brian Souter
580 Plays1 year ago
Today we hear from an incredibly successful businessman and philanthropist and discover his heart for the gospel. Starting with the influence of his mother, he explains how his relationship with Christ has shaped his life, his giving, his ministry and his own personal evangelism.
Sir Brian Souter grew up on a council estate in Perth, Scotland. He and his sister built the Stagecoach company into one of Britain's largest bus companies in the 1990's, moving into other transport and international ventures. He set up the Souter Charitable Trust with his wife Lady Elizabeth in 1992. Since 2006 the Trust has awarded more than 15,000 grants totalling over £100 million (including support for Solas). He received a knighthood in 2011 for his contributions to transport and the voluntary sector. Still resident in Perth, Sir Brian has four grown up children and five grandchildren.
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Transcript
Introduction and Meeting Sir Brian Souter
00:00:10
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I am Andy Bannister from Solas. I'm joined as ever by my ever-vescent co-host, Christy Mayer from Oak Hill College in London. Christy, how are you doing today? I'm doing all right. Thank you very much, Andy. I'm effervescently fine. Thank you. I always try to find a long adjective to describe you.
00:00:30
Speaker
Well, we're excited to be joined by an old friend of Solas and someone who's been around the Christian world, certainly in Scotland for many, many years.
Christian Upbringing and Early Faith
00:00:40
Speaker
Thrilled to be joined by Sir Brian Souter. Brian, welcome to pep talk. Thank you.
00:00:45
Speaker
Now, Brian, everyone knows of you. Lots of people know of you because of your public persona. You've been involved in business for years, famously set up and ran stagecoach for many years. All kinds of business interests, very public profile, but also you've got the Christian side of your life too. Those worlds aren't separate, but also very actively involved in ministry and church and supporting ministries over the years. But I suppose a great question, Brian, to begin with is how did you have your faith journey?
00:01:13
Speaker
start for you. The story of your business journey is well known, it's in the public arena, but where did faith in Christ begin for you? Was that in childhood? Was that in adulthood? How did you come to first encounter the Christ? Yeah, well, I was brought up in a Christian home. My mother should really have been a nun. I mean, she was never away from the church. She was the organist and she took me to church.
00:01:37
Speaker
Monday night to the women's meeting, you know, Wednesday night to the prayer meeting, she ran a club on a Friday, there was a deputation meeting on a Saturday night, she played the piano for that, and she played the organ on a Sunday, and she led Sunday school. So if anyone should have been overexposed to the gospel and been scunnered by it, to use a Scots word, it would be me. But the funny thing about all of this is that
00:02:08
Speaker
Through all of that, there was a couple of things came across me. One was that there was something different about our family and something different about the way we lived our life. We lived in a big council housing estate. And I realized from quite an early age that actually what was different was that Jesus Christ was part of our life and that was a real, a very
00:02:37
Speaker
you know, a real experience for us as a family. So as a young kid I used to go along and listen to the gospel all the time and I began to understand what my personal need for a Savior was. And actually it was just in a simple prayer one night I
00:02:57
Speaker
After church, when we came home, I was 10-year-old and I said to my mother, I want to become a Christian, and she prayed with me. I didn't understand all the theology behind it.
00:03:14
Speaker
But I remember the joy of feeling that forgiveness and knowing that Jesus Christ was my savior. It's been an interesting journey since that.
Intellectual Exploration of Faith
00:03:29
Speaker
In my teenage years, I had to work out the intellectual aspect of Christianity.
00:03:38
Speaker
when you've got an experience with Jesus Christ and it's a reality in your life then the intellectual part of it just follows quite naturally after it in my view and during my teenage years I had to make a decision whether you know how serious I was about this Christian commitment because it meant I was going to have to live my life quite differently
00:03:59
Speaker
from the rest of my peer group or whatever. And so at that point, I kind of reaffirmed that that for me was what I wanted to do. And that was the time when I looked around, saw how other people's lives were in our housing estate and realized that my mother and father, now this actually really does work for us. This isn't just a ritual we go through. This is
Influence of Mother's Philanthropy
00:04:23
Speaker
a reality. And just rounding off on that, I mean,
00:04:27
Speaker
My mother was a big influence on us. I remember on Christmas Eve, she trailed us up to the poorest part of the town and she said, now we've got something to do now before we have our Christmas. And she took a whole lot of gifts to this woman that was looking after a couple of kids, an old woman that was looking after a couple of children.
00:04:44
Speaker
And I realize this is the outliving of the Christian message. And she was also a great one for spreading the gospel. She wasn't ashamed of her faith. And that sometimes I find a bit embarrassing as a small child because she would get really blessed up. And I remember one day we were going to get the bus down to town and we're on the bus and we're on the seat in the bus that's facing everybody else. And she's singing
00:05:15
Speaker
what a friend we have in Jesus. And like, I'm thinking that I wish he would be quiet, you know, this is really embarrassing. And I'm thinking, if she keeps doing this, the only friend I'll have is Jesus, because nothing else will know what I've had to do with it. But actually, it was a very rich and amazing experience as a childhood. And I'm very grateful for my mother's influence at the end of all.
00:05:41
Speaker
Sounds like an incredible woman, Brian. And praise the Lord for her wonderful example in your life. What has that looked like for you as you've continued to share your faith? How has she set an example
Faith in Business and Joy of Giving
00:05:53
Speaker
for you? And what does that look like for you now in the world of work?
00:05:56
Speaker
Well, I think there's a few things. My father was probably the person that taught us most about business. My father was quite an interesting character as well. He was a bus driver, but he had a whole lot of other business interests. But for my mother, I do believe that
00:06:14
Speaker
The fact that we have a Charitable Trust and my sister's involvement in Mercy Ships, I do credit that to my mother's influence in her life. She was obsessive about evangelism and missions.
00:06:30
Speaker
And when she died, we went through all our stuff and we found cases from the 1950s and 60s and 70s. And they were full of receipts from missionary societies and things that she'd supported. And so I think we had a very good role model there about that. And the funny thing about it is, we'd been able to continue that legacy
00:06:54
Speaker
But with with the blessings that we've had, we've been able to do do I know it said to use the word do more, but because what she did was amazing. And we all know the story of the widow's mate. But what we learned was that that what we have is a stewardship from God and that we're responsible for that stewardship. And so, you know, we also learned from my mother that there is great joy in giving and that
00:07:23
Speaker
That's the main reason that we have that stewardship and that, you know, when we're obedient to the things that God's asking us to support, then we get enormous sense of joy and satisfaction. So I've learned, first of all, on the business front, I mean, I would confess to say that I enjoy making money.
00:07:42
Speaker
enjoy it for what it does or what it can do or what I want to spend around that. But I just like the deal and I get a kick out of doing a deal. That's part of my metabolism
Friendship Evangelism and Outreach
00:07:52
Speaker
and my makeup. But then I learn something else. If you then take that money and you cycle it into God's work, then
00:08:01
Speaker
the blessing you get from that and the feeling you get. Now it's totally different from doing a business deal, but you get an enormous sense of satisfaction and fulfillment and privilege that you've been able to partner with some amazing people to spread the gospel.
00:08:19
Speaker
I love the fact that you told the story of the widows might there Brian because you know we've got we've got two young kids got an eight-year-old and eleven-year-old and one of the things we're trying to do even with them is start that principle of going from the little you have give a little bit away and to go seeing their faces light up when they hear back from causes they've supported you and they mention mercy ships actually that's one my kids really like because the stories are so powerful.
00:08:41
Speaker
But then I'm also struck by, I think it was, I think it was one of the Wesley's, possibly John Wesley, who said, you know, it's the duty of every Christian to work as hard as he can to make as much money as he can so he can give away as much as he can. So in a sense, you also demonstrate what that's like with Christians working the higher end in
00:08:56
Speaker
business and it's been really encouraging to see how you've used, how the Lord has blessed you. But Brian, the other thing as well that strikes me about you, what I like about when I've watched you in action, you are someone who does the business. You don't just give the money away. You also do ministry. I was telling Chris, I was very struck by when I turned up at that event at your church about this time last year. I said, I was here to see Brian and then I directed me over to where you and Betty were busy serving the soup.
00:09:22
Speaker
So, how does practically doing ministry look like for you? How do you personally share your faith with friends, with those the Lord brings across your path? And say, I'm very encouraged by someone like you who doesn't just fund evangelism, you also in your own way go about it. How has that worked for you over the years? Because obviously people look at you and see the business leader.
00:09:42
Speaker
But also that business leader has to then find a way to also explain what looks different to them because of Christ. How have you done that over the years? Have you got any sort of advice, tips, stories that you can share?
00:09:54
Speaker
Well, I think the first thing is that obviously our stewardship is not only of the money we've got, because that, you know, if we're ever endowed with a bit of wealth, that can be the easiest part of it. But we're also stewards of our time. And so I think it's really important that we're involved in local church and involved in
00:10:16
Speaker
My wife is also very passionate about evangelism and a lot of the initiatives that we've done have actually been things that Betty has had ideas about and we've taken the initiatives and done them. One of the things that we realised about 25 years ago when we were up
00:10:35
Speaker
approached by Nicky Gumbel and the team at Alpha. That time Alpha was just run by HTB. And we just realized that the world is changing. And running a church service and expecting people to come in and hear the gospel, well, we'll continue to do that. It's not really the most effective way of winning people.
00:11:03
Speaker
We're very convinced, both of us, that friendship evangelism is the best way to win people to Christ. And I think that Alpha is a great example, or Christianity Explored are great examples of friendship evangelism. And some of the things that we've tried to do at the church with actually been with our house group, believe it or not, it was our house group that founded the Tea Time Trinity concept.
00:11:33
Speaker
And it started as it was called the Philos meal, which Philos means friendship, as you know. And so we did it partly because some people were lonely, but also because we felt this is a way we can get people to come to church. So what we've got is we've got, you know, 40, 50 people coming to these events that actually don't go to church, but they'll come along to an event. And I think that you've got to always be rethinking how we're going to share the Gospels with people.
00:12:02
Speaker
And I think it's also important to develop new friendships in your life. And a lot of this stuff is just hard work, isn't it? Because sometimes it's easy just to cocoon yourself with your comfort friendships and just leave it at that.
00:12:18
Speaker
We've always had friendships out with the church and we've always tried to encourage these folks and share our testimony with them and encourage them to come along to events and to hear the gospel. For me, I think that's part of the great commission to go and preach the gospel. I think sometimes it involves
00:12:47
Speaker
being in a pool pit and sharing the gospel. Years ago, I was in a gospel band when that was the kind of new ministry. And that's quite interesting because some people really didn't like that, didn't approve it. I thought it was the devil's music and all that stuff. But we were actually singing in prisons, singing to big concerts of young people on a Saturday night that you were never going to get to the church on the Sunday. And I just think that it's really important that
00:13:17
Speaker
Each one of us interprets this in our own way and not saying that we continue to have a lifestyle that involves reaching other people. And I think that can be personal. I think it can be corporate through the church. And I think in the 21st century, it's probably going to have to be more unconventional and a bit more friendship evangelism than what's been in the past.
Balancing Evangelism and a Busy Life
00:13:47
Speaker
That's such an encouragement to hear that, Brian, especially because in terms of your work life, you're obviously very busy. And I think one of the things that I think about myself and friends that stops us making new friends is the question of, I don't have enough time. How do I possibly do this?
00:14:06
Speaker
And what would you say to those, you know, as a busy person yourself, how do you make time, not just kind of for church and outreach events, but for making new friendships or for developing friendships in work or elsewhere? How do you actually, what does this look like for you practically to make time for friendship evangelism? Yeah, well it says, I know that sometimes life will get different silos or whatever. I mean,
00:14:35
Speaker
I mean, for instance, the type of these friendship evangelism outreach events, I think it's really important to spend time speaking to other people that have come in and get to know them.
00:14:49
Speaker
When we were young, our ministry was that we had a kids club in Perth. And when we go down the street now, we still meet, grown up people that were at the kids club and they'll talk to us in the supermarket or wherever. Your life should always be interacting with other people.
00:15:09
Speaker
When you've got young children, like we had at that time, our way of doing that was through the Children's Club and then reaching the parents that would come on a trip and go to a sports day or whatever. So that was how, you know, we developed these friendships and I'd say we still would meet them and some of them still come to church. Sometimes if we've got events or things on in the church, you know, if there's a special on it, whatever, right?
00:15:34
Speaker
I think in your business life, the important thing is to be open and consistent. And most people in the business world know of our Christian faith and commitment. So you get an opportunity through that sometimes to share your faith. I think it's very important not to kind of like ram that down people's throats. And I think in the workplace situation, you have to respect people's
00:16:03
Speaker
privacy and space and all the rest of it. And so you would never, you know, exploit your position as an employer or whatever to try to, you know, lean on someone to come to face. But at the same time, it's also important to get people an opportunity to invite them to things. And if they like to come, it's great, you know. I think in personal terms,
00:16:31
Speaker
Well, what we've always tried to do is we've always, and sometimes this is done starting through the business context, but now that we've got a bit more leisure time, or sometimes meeting new friends when we're actually, because once you get to our time in life, you get a bit more leisure time. But the most recent friends we made actually were on a holiday in the Nile, and they were Lebanese people.
Opportunities for Faith Sharing Later in Life
00:16:57
Speaker
And they're really, really interesting people that we discovered
00:17:01
Speaker
that they lived in Dubai and we discovered that our house was on the same part of the front in Dubai and so we developed a relationship with them and you know they haven't come to church yet but you know they're really interested and they're really a super couple and they would describe themselves as marionite Catholic Christians.
00:17:23
Speaker
but they're kind of drifted away from it a bit, you know what I mean? And so that's kind of, that's a kind of up-to-date kind of, these are, but this guide, I don't want to share this, but this guide to an amazing story. So,
00:17:37
Speaker
He's doing business in Dubai, and I know we've all had these stories coming out of the Iranian church, right, okay? And sometimes a wee bit of an echo chamber, and the story gets replicated, but this, so I'm speaking to this new friend, Fadi, and I'm talking about Christian faith, and he said, or he said, I had a really interesting experience, he said, two months ago, he said, I went to do business with a Saudi guy, and when I went in, because Fadi is a Christian and a Muslim name,
00:18:08
Speaker
He said to me, can I ask you a question before we start? And he said to Fadi, are you a Christian or a Muslim? And Fadi said to him, because he knew he was Lebanese, and Lebanese can be both. And so he said to him, Fadi said, I'm a Christian. And the guy closed the door over and he said, I want to just share this with you. He said,
00:18:33
Speaker
He said, I had a vision of Jesus Christ. And he said, I'm now a believer. And he said, but I can't tell my family about it. He said, and my wife and my daughter have also had different manifestations. He said, and we are all believers in Jesus Christ. And he said, we still occasionally go to the mosque. He said, and we can't tell our family or they cut us off completely. I have this like,
00:19:02
Speaker
co-op smacked by this story from this guy, you know. I mean, this stuff is really, really happening across the Middle East just now. And it was funny because Fari's wife said to us, isn't it strange how Jesus is appearing to the Muslims and he's not appearing to us, you know. But this is fascinating. I'm probably a complete tangent in this, but I just made the point when you make new friends,
00:19:29
Speaker
you get new experiences and it can bless and enrich it in just amazing ways. Actually Brian, I don't think it's a tangent at all. And actually because we've, we've gone past 20 minutes, I think it's a great place actually to
00:19:44
Speaker
to wind it up because what so encourages me was I think you've modeled that, okay, as seasons of life change, workplace, retirement, but that common thread that you and Betty have found, reach out, befriend people, build those friendships and see what God
Episode Summary and Encouragement
00:20:00
Speaker
does through them. And we mustn't go down the rabbit trail of the witness thing, of the visions thing, because I have so many former Muslim friends actually who have had experiences of Jesus appearing to them. So every time I hear those stories, I get excited because there's another one that God is doing something. So let's be open to reaching out to those God calls across our path.
00:20:22
Speaker
It's been an absolute pleasure. I wish we had double the time because there's so many other things I'd love to ask, but thank you for making the time to be with us on pep talk and I hope that what people have heard is encouraged and excited people to really just reach out to those around you, build those friendships, look for unusual ways to share the gospel and be transparent in our faith. Brian once again, thank you for being with us.
00:20:45
Speaker
Thank you, and thanks, appreciate all the work you guys do at Solas as well. Thank you. Bless you. Well, thanks for listening, everyone. Wherever you're catching this podcast and the car on a run on your sofa, Christy and I will be back in two weeks' time with another guest, another story, and so catch us again on a future episode of our pep talk. Thanks for listening.