Transcript
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Because I think another pinball release or two or maybe even three might be on the horizon the next couple months.
Speaker: I mean, we've got spooky sending stuff out to content creators.
Speaker: We have rumors floating about.
Speaker: We'll talk about later.
Speaker: If you want to get on these rumored lists, hit up Zach and Nicole Minney at Flippin' Out Pinball.
Speaker: They are amazing.
Speaker: Their customer service is great.
Speaker: They are a company that goes the extra mile for you.
Speaker: Like, I just...
Speaker: Zach does it all for me and I really appreciate what he does.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I actually have a personal plug.
Speaker: I actually had a, uh, someone who went to residency with me who reached out and asked me if I knew anything about Jurassic park.
Speaker: So I had a discussion with him and I was like, yeah, it's, it's a great game.
Speaker: And if you're looking for, if you're looking for a game, it is one of those games that the pro and the premium would really work.
Speaker: So he said, Hey, where do you get it?
Speaker: And legitimately, I just sent them a group message with Zach and Nicole and my friend.
Speaker: And of course he took the deep dive and went into pinball and now they got him a Godzilla premium that he's getting his first machine.
Speaker: And so they really were very, very accommodating to work with.
Speaker: Uh, they didn't immediately have a game, but they said they'd put them on the, uh, the, like the list of first refusal and they were able to get that for them.
Speaker: So it was really nice to see that personal touch.
Speaker: That's awesome, man.
Speaker: I mean, I'm excited.
Speaker: That's another person in the hobby.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Into the industry.
Speaker: So, so, so if you want to buy hip Zach and Nicole, many at flipping out pinball, all their stuff is usually updated through their Facebook page to go there and see what's on the list.
Speaker: They're always updating.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Let's dive into it.
Speaker: So I'm going to give a fair warning before we get into this.
Speaker: I know the first couple points aren't really on our notes.
Speaker: Hopefully they're not controversial because the last couple episodes we've done, right?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: But we are going to give some thoughts on some of the current stuff coming up.
Speaker: If you're not much of a drama person, we're going to give our takes without trying to be dramatic.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I don't think I can hold to that today, Josh.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, fair warning.
Speaker: Fair warning.
Speaker: Scott is ticked.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So like, like deep root level ticked.
Speaker: So what was that?
Speaker: Episode 80 when we had Zach and Dennis on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Good cram.
Speaker: Only took another 40 episodes.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Before we get into that stuff though, Jack Guarneri interview reactions.
Speaker: A lot of people loved it.
Speaker: A lot of people thought kind of business as usual.
Speaker: Jack was, was he stuck to talking points.
Speaker: I mean, really he stuck to very,
Speaker: market friendly phrases.
Speaker: I, we tried to push him on a few, a few topics that he could say something about if he chose to, he really chose to defer, which is, is fine.
Speaker: It's his prerogative.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, it seemed like he was sticking to his typical talking points, which is great.
Speaker: It's typical Jack.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And I thought overall it was good.
Speaker: There was some information there.
Speaker: A lot of people have gleamed some stuff from it.
Speaker: I appreciate the coverage from nap and this week in pinball.
Speaker: it's really awesome that they pick up, you know, those interviews and run with it.
Speaker: Our next episode, the Twippy episode, I want to preface this because it's probably where some of the stuff's going to start coming in.
Speaker: Will Odding, a lot of people say Odding, it's Odding, like an otter.
Speaker: We had this discussion.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I have to.
Speaker: So Will,
Speaker: asks to come on our show, which is totally fine.
Speaker: It doesn't bother me one bit that he comes on the show and we talk about the Twippies because it's that time of year and the awards.
Speaker: It was a nice way to introduce it, by the way, just saying, hey, it's the season.
Speaker: These are some things and we really do try not to take sides.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: And so Will reached out with Lucas and Emoto, and we wanted to get this all together.
Speaker: It was a great opportunity to talk about some of the changes going on in Twippy.
Speaker: And really, I felt like overall it was a great episode, right?
Speaker: Like, Lucas is a great dude, and Emoto, she works so hard behind the...
Speaker: the curtain, so to speak.
Speaker: And she puts a lot in a blood, sweat and tears into this.
Speaker: The interesting part though, is the reaction we got to the episode.
Speaker: First of all, we're not really associated with this weekend pinball.
Speaker: Like I know that we've had, yeah, we're not on the committee.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We're not on the committee.
Speaker: We don't own any stock in the, in the website.
Speaker: Like I don't know, like I, I don't know why we received emails upset that like we didn't ask why the,
Speaker: like there was a positivity change and why, why we didn't give certain coverage to certain people.
Speaker: Like they felt like they were neglected.
Speaker: And, and I just, I'm sorry.
Speaker: Like we were here to interview Will and what they are doing, what they think is best for the Twippy awards.
Speaker: And in the last two weeks, it's funny.
Speaker: I feel like we haven't had,
Speaker: any drama for 2023, right?
Speaker: Like it's been so far.
Speaker: It's been pretty nice.
Speaker: Like it's pretty smooth sailing, but it happens every year, right?
Speaker: Like every year, Twippies get announced.
Speaker: We had Will on last year because he has to come on, which is totally fine.
Speaker: But it seems like there's always drama, always.
Speaker: And I'm frustrated.
Speaker: Like, I don't know why you're barking at my door to tell you guys what should or shouldn't be done or who I should represent.
Speaker: I just, sorry.
Speaker: Like, that's what we're here for is a platform to give a voice to the people that we enjoy listening to, I guess.
Speaker: But like, if you like the Twippy's cool, whatever, if not, you don't have to tune into it.
Speaker: That's, that's my personal opinion, but there's been a lot of drama and I just kind of want to address it.
Speaker: I don't know if I want to address it first or Scott wants to address it first.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: My turn.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The whole point of having an award show legitimately should be a celebration of the hobby.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It should be a way of bringing people into the hobby to celebrate the accomplishments by the way of the manufacturers and say, these are the best products that are out there.
Speaker: I don't see car and driver magazine saying, Hey, these are the best autos out there.
Speaker: But by the way, this is the best person who talks about those.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And the bottom line is I'm sick of it.
Speaker: I'm sick of it.
Speaker: And I'm sick of one person in particular.
Speaker: And I'm sorry that I cannot hold back.
Speaker: If you feel like your number one priority in life is to get a sticker on winning a podcast for pinball.
Speaker: We are such a small industry.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Go for it, dude.
Speaker: You cross a line when you start threatening people, you start threatening to send your minions on them and to dox them and to put things out there.
Speaker: You have crossed a serious line, my friend.
Speaker: And I don't care if you walk things back and you try to...
Speaker: You continually do this and I'm tired of you trying to pick fights and then walking away and saying, oh no, we're all cool.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You're a bully and you're a coward because you're doing it online.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so the bottom line is if that's what you want to celebrate as a, as a twippy voter, then go ahead.
Speaker: I have zero interest in that level of toxicity in the hobby.
Speaker: It's not about content creators.
Speaker: It's not about the best streamer out there.
Speaker: It's like I am actually calling for that to be completely eliminated from the Twippy because every year that becomes the focus.
Speaker: It should be the best game of the year.
Speaker: It should be the best designer of the year.
Speaker: It should be the best company of the year.
Speaker: Not some troll who gets off on trying to stir up toxicity in the hobby and to call for people's jobs.
Speaker: And I'm sorry, if you're supporting this, you're part of the problem.
Speaker: If you're seeing someone who is in a fight on the street and you want to go and just look at that as opposed to try to defuse the situation, you're part of the problem.
Speaker: And so I'm calling on people to wake up, try to eliminate the toxicity in the hobby, because that is not what it should be about.
Speaker: If that's what it is about, then my friend do not come over to my house.
Speaker: Do not talk to me and pretend like you're my friend.
Speaker: And then immediately like trash people on the background.
Speaker: There is no need for that.
Speaker: And the bottom line is you need to grow up because this is not junior high.
Speaker: These are people's lives.
Speaker: These are people's hobbies.
Speaker: These are people's fans.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: If that's all you want to do in your life is to pick fights and to cause angry people, an angry rant is what I'm giving right now because of your antics.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm not even going to specify you personally, you know who you are.
Speaker: And I'm not even going to call out all the numerous antics that you have done to many people personally.
Speaker: Including us.
Speaker: Including us.
Speaker: And so, you know what?
Speaker: Just crawl back under the hole that you came out of.
Speaker: And just stay away because it is not helping people.
Speaker: You're a succubus on people's souls.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: Rant.
Speaker: Tell us how you really feel, Scott.
Speaker: Rant done.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Get some therapy.
Speaker: That's what I want you to do.
Speaker: I want you to get some therapy and get over your narcissistic delusions.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: It just, it's really sad.
Speaker: I think the thing that upsets me the most about all this is
Speaker: It's not, the drama's every year, so I guess I've become desensitized to it, which is kind of depressing, right?
Speaker: Like, that's really, really sad.
Speaker: But I think the thing that upsets me most is the false narrative, because we had Will on, we had Emoto on.
Speaker: They clarified, no one's getting, like, ejected from the Twippies.
Speaker: No one's, there's no positivity clause.
Speaker: They were very, very, very forthcoming that's saying, like, it's going to be the same old, same old that it has been for years, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And there's been this narrative created over the last two weeks that if you're not involved in the database of This Week in Pinball, which now doesn't exist anymore, has been taken down.
Speaker: All the content creators are not punished because of one person.
Speaker: Hey, well done.
Speaker: You're so toxic that they just decided to shut everything down.
Speaker: Good for you.
Speaker: I hope you get a big old gold star on your butt.
Speaker: But my point being is like...
Speaker: There's this false narrative going around and it doesn't help anyone.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And, and really it only creates more of a toxic and negative environment.
Speaker: Like it makes no sense because all this was clarified two weeks ago.
Speaker: Like it's all, it's just, it's all false narrative.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you want to be, if you want to be mean, then that's the baseline of your personality.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And you're only, you're only serving yourself.
Speaker: Again, get therapy.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, like, I agree with Scott.
Speaker: We've talked to Will, actually, about this.
Speaker: We've talked to a handful of people behind the scenes.
Speaker: We're really pushing for media.
Speaker: I think the media should be gone.
Speaker: Because it's negative.
Speaker: It detracts from the whole purpose of it.
Speaker: And it's not just been this year.
Speaker: I mean, I know that we're talking about this every year.
Speaker: We talk about this.
Speaker: Let me give you some behind the scenes.
Speaker: It's not because...
Speaker: you know, we're not, we're all losers, right?
Speaker: Like there's only one winner, right?
Speaker: It's the fact that it creates so much drama, so much negativity and toxicity around the, what has got to be the best year or best part of the year.
Speaker: In my opinion, like this is, this is when I go out and,
Speaker: I give more, I help more.
Speaker: Like I am, I'm already helping and stuff during the year, but like I'm actively, that's like on my mind of like things are slowing down in work and like you're spending more time with family and it should be all positivity and good vibes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And it just, it isn't.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: You and I, we dealt with this from the beginning.
Speaker: Like I remember when from the beginning.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: From like 2020 when we weren't on the nominated list for for this week in pinball podcast of the year or whatever it is.
Speaker: We didn't care.
Speaker: But all of a sudden we got thrown into the conversation because.
Speaker: We won the pinball industry award, not even like 24 days later before they even did the Twippy awards.
Speaker: And so it was fodder to talk about like,
Speaker: how flawed of a system it is and yada, yada, yada.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: In fairness, I will say the Twippy is the people's choice awards.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so the, the way the forum is set up and I, I have no problem with this.
Speaker: The way the forum is set up is people hop online and they place a vote.
Speaker: What I am, what I'm, so it's, it's fine.
Speaker: Like we didn't really do much active campaigning.
Speaker: And so it's, it didn't surprise me that we weren't on the list that year.
Speaker: But I got personal calls January 1st.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like on a holiday for multiple people telling me I should call up Patterson, who was the owner of Twip at the time, and chew him out.
Speaker: And I was like, no.
Speaker: Because that's not our role.
Speaker: That's not our style.
Speaker: And if we were in this for the awards, we would have stopped doing this a long time ago.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Apparently in 2021, we would have called it quits.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So just, just, just get rid of it.
Speaker: Just get rid of that part.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because that's the only, and I guarantee you when people think of the Twippies, they think of the toxicity around the content creator category.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And I'm sorry, this is, okay.
Speaker: I like doing this and I know Josh likes doing this.
Speaker: This is not our day job.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But you know what?
Speaker: It is some people's day job.
Speaker: And when what you are, when a stupid trophy that drives you to do toxic things to people personally, when it's online is or in person, of course, this person does not come in person, but online, I am sorry.
Speaker: That is, that's a, that is online terrorism because you are affecting their mental wellbeing.
Speaker: I, I just, I don't want to say here's, here's the sucky part about all this.
Speaker: this is the same attitudes and stuff we've seen for years now.
Speaker: You know, we, we don't talk about this for, because it never changes, right?
Speaker: Like, well, you, the list, we don't like getting the spotlight.
Speaker: This is one of the few times where I'm giving the spotlight to a toxic element that needs to be lanced and like a boil.
Speaker: That's the, that was quite the visual.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But my point being though, is it's like, if you want change, start with yourself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like if you're sick and tired of it, stand up.
Speaker: Like a lot of people are afraid to stand up because the bullying just happens to them.
Speaker: And then there's like, well, they don't want to be a target.
Speaker: I've personally heard people who said, I don't want to stand up because I don't want to be another target of this bully.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And it's not one person.
Speaker: It's multiple.
Speaker: It's constant.
Speaker: Remember when, when they got banned from expo last year?
Speaker: I heard multiple people saying they wanted to stand up, but they didn't want to be a part of it because they want to be a target and good for Zach many for standing up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he, he's, and this is us just talking as a friend.
Speaker: He has, he has been a target many times completely.
Speaker: And this is Zach's like livelihood.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And Zach is a, he's a good distributor.
Speaker: You can have your own opinion about personalities and the way, the way things are done.
Speaker: That's fine.
Speaker: And, and, and you can have opinion about Josh and me.
Speaker: I, I, I don't really care about that.
Speaker: I just hope that if we, we've repeatedly said, if you need, if you need help, like we're there for you, if you need help, reach out and look for things.
Speaker: But if you're, if you're just an online assassin,
Speaker: Just go away.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: My personal opinion, because I hear a lot of this, that the truth is spoken through this podcast and whatnot.
Speaker: You know, honestly, you know who's a really good analyzer of the industry who gives a good poignant opinion that is for the people but still is respectable about the industry is Kerry Hardy.
Speaker: Yeah, Kerry's pretty good.
Speaker: Seriously.
Speaker: I like Kerry.
Speaker: Kerry's a good fit.
Speaker: And Kerry's got quite the following.
Speaker: It shows that I feel like he's very balanced.
Speaker: He may go off about topper prices.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: Kerry is irreverent, and he is.
Speaker: And it's, there's nothing wrong with having that type.
Speaker: That's, that's not my personality.
Speaker: It's not Josh's personality, but Kerry, that's his personality.
Speaker: And he's, he has a way of being provocative without being mean.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, that's his personal opinion.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And I think that's the way, the reason I bring Kerry up, we love you, Kerry.
Speaker: You're a good dude.
Speaker: Thanks for coming on the show a few episodes back.
Speaker: I think the reason I bring this up is because it shows how you can have a very brash opinion about the industry, but still be respectable about it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, and calling out maybe something that needs to be called out, but doing it in a respectable way.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I feel like, Hey, we call people out too.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Not to the same level, but it's,
Speaker: But you know, I'm just, I'm just, I'm tired of it.
Speaker: I'm tired of mean people.
Speaker: Mean people suck.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Mean people do suck.
Speaker: And that's why we usually don't talk about this because then the mean people are, you know, end up in our lives.
Speaker: I don't feed the trolls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't feed the trolls.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Are we done with that?
Speaker: We're done.
Speaker: Move on.
Speaker: One quick question, though.
Speaker: I will not speak of him again.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Quick question, though.
Speaker: All this feuding, all this ridiculousness, it's being plastered on Pinside, on Facebook, on whatever anyone can get their hands on to plaster all this drama and negativity.
Speaker: Is it harming the brand of Twippy?
Speaker: Just a quick thought.
Speaker: I think it does give people a...
Speaker: kind of a knee jerk feeling like when you sit, when you think Twippy and the number one thing you think of is drama over content creator.
Speaker: That's an issue.
Speaker: If you think Oscars and the number one you think of is Will Smith slapping Chris rock.
Speaker: That's a problem.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, did it bring eyeballs?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did it bring attention?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Not positive.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And I know all publicity is good publicity.
Speaker: Like not always.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: I worked in radio.
Speaker: Like that was the thing, right?
Speaker: Like all publicity is good publicity.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But in this situation where you're trying to do something that's prestigious, that honors the hobby and the industry, I just, I feel like it's a black eye more than it is a gold star.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's like having a charity event and you have the one person calling out a charity for what they're not doing or just being mean about the charity or whatever they're doing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Let's move on.
Speaker: On the list, do we want to talk Jaws rumors?
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So let's, I don't want to, I don't want to deal with them specifically, but we can talk about rumors of Jaws and really any pinball machine rumors because this happens regularly, right?
Speaker: Oh, every release.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, and so go roughly about two to four weeks before it's shown.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The, the only one that seems like it didn't like that totally took me by surprise was when they released Mustang.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It was like, here's Mustang.
Speaker: We're like, what, what?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I remember when, when they revealed Avengers and none of us were like from L1 and it was like, yeah, that, yeah, that was, that was interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We weren't expecting that because of the way that they had released stuff around that time of year.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Thought thoughts about leaks.
Speaker: I'll let you go first.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I just really want to make a couple of quick points.
Speaker: The funny part is, so we interviewed Keith L1 back in February.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: he had just had a brand new reset at that point.
Speaker: That was, uh, James Bond 60th anniversary.
Speaker: We talked about a ton of things about bond.
Speaker: It was amazing.
Speaker: It was a very fun episode.
Speaker: We always ask Keith, like, tell us anything about your next game.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Because it's,
Speaker: I guess people are intrigued.
Speaker: He told us there was four flippers, three on one side, one on one side.
Speaker: And the articles the next day were first details on L1's next game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We don't celebrate for some odd reason.
Speaker: We don't celebrate the current game out.
Speaker: Like we're not satisfied with what's released, right?
Speaker: Like the rumors jaws.
Speaker: It's been for, that's been the rumor for two years.
Speaker: So, and if it's not great,
Speaker: I'm sure it'll be fine, but that's, that's been on a lot of people's wishlist for a while and been linked very heavily.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: I don't know if it was cause bomb 60th was, what was it?
Speaker: What like 15?
Speaker: No, it wasn't 15,000.
Speaker: It was more than that when it came out.
Speaker: It was a lot.
Speaker: It was a, it was a name your price.
Speaker: It was like unattainable for a lot of people at,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They usually go for a pro or premium, right?
Speaker: Like this was just, and maybe that was the other thing too, but like back to the point, the articles read first details on Ellen's next game.
Speaker: It didn't talk about like his current game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And even the photo for, for it is the Ellie for Godzilla, which had been released.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: like a year and a half before.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Like, I don't know what this fascination is with rumors in this hobby.
Speaker: And it's really like I joked because obviously, you know, we'll have Elwin on after his next release like we typically do.
Speaker: And I'm like, maybe we should just joke and be like, no one wants to hear about your current game you just released.
Speaker: Yeah, let's talk about your next one.
Speaker: Let's talk about your next one because obviously like you have a hit here and everyone's seeing this.
Speaker: But like what about the next one?
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Like it's just – the other thing too, I don't know how much I want to touch on this, but I'm going to – I know there are people in Chicago that work for people that listen to this podcast.
Speaker: I'll put it that way.
Speaker: Okay, sure.
Speaker: people get fired over these leaks.
Speaker: They can, yeah.
Speaker: They can.
Speaker: And some of them think they're very smart with how they're releasing them.
Speaker: But if you look at the window of when the leaks are being released, it actually pinpoints the employees.
Speaker: So I just want to forewarn you, like you might want to- We're not going to speculate, by the way, which people, because we don't know who they are.
Speaker: I will state that.
Speaker: We don't know who they are.
Speaker: But we've heard of that timeline.
Speaker: I'm okay.
Speaker: Timeline.
Speaker: And they have a good idea of who releases these leaks every time.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: And I think the frustrating part to me is like, I have friends in the, like I've made friends all across this hobby.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, and,
Speaker: It sucks that people's jobs are in jeopardy for a game that's releasing in two to four weeks.
Speaker: We can probably safely assume that, right?
Speaker: But you know what assume means.
Speaker: And we've got to be the first to the gate with the information of the game before the company releases it.
Speaker: Like, why?
Speaker: What's the point?
Speaker: Are we so rumor hungry in this hobby that we can't wait two weeks just to see a finished product?
Speaker: Two to four weeks?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't think it's, it's not unique to us.
Speaker: It's not unique to pinball.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This, these are things that happen industry wide.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like in any industry really, because if people are talking about it, then hopefully it, it, it increases interest, I guess, anticipation.
Speaker: I mean, this is the whole point of having like movie trailers and,
Speaker: and things that people say, Hey, that looks like a good movie.
Speaker: I want to, I I'm interested in it or, Hey, there's a car coming out and I'm interested in that too.
Speaker: There's nothing wrong with looking at what is coming up.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It is common.
Speaker: Another point is I'm slightly skeptical about leaks and rumors because there are two, there are two ways that
Speaker: rumors and leaks happen.
Speaker: It is someone who is in the inside of the industry and they want to leak something out to say, Hey, this is a cool thing.
Speaker: You guys should hear about it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There are also marketing campaigns that will use leaks.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: And, and so there are ways that they will strategically leak things out.
Speaker: And this happens in sports too, where it's you, you hear, Hey, an unnamed source says that this athlete is doing this or is against the organization or with you or whatever.
Speaker: So the question I have usually when a leak comes out is who benefits from this?
Speaker: Because if the leak comes out that it actually benefits the company, there are questions about, okay, well, was the company itself a source for the leak?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Or if, and I'm using the athlete analogy, but a lot of times when you hear about negotiations with contracts between athletes and teams, and if an unnamed source comes out and says something,
Speaker: you need to say who benefits from it because if this makes the team look bad, then you have to suspect someone from the athletes, entourage, the group, PR, whatever.
Speaker: They're the one leaking it.
Speaker: If it benefits the company, then that.
Speaker: So the question I have is, do you feel that these leaks are part of a marketing campaign that companies have, but...
Speaker: Or do you feel that this is some gorilla tactic that an employee is having?
Speaker: Because I, and I, I don't think it has to be one or the other.
Speaker: I think there are different things.
Speaker: I just, and I don't disagree with you.
Speaker: It's like a paparazzi, the paparazzi, they get calls from the, the actors, agents to say, Hey, they're going to be walking on the beach in their shorts and
Speaker: And so they go and take pictures of their, you know, their latest, you know, body after having a baby or body after losing 40 pounds for a role or something like that.
Speaker: So it is publicity.
Speaker: And, and let's be honest, like we've already mentioned it earlier in the podcast, like this stuff gets leaked two to four weeks, almost like clockwork before the reveal.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like every time, except for there, there are a couple of times it doesn't happen.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So you're right.
Speaker: So either there's consistently employees leaking this information in a girl stuff, gorilla type fashion for marketing, or it is a planned campaign and it is leaked on purpose to a certain source to then be dripped feet out to, to create encourage or encourage FOMO.
Speaker: That's what's been coined, you know, fear of missing out.
Speaker: And so I don't know.
Speaker: It just,
Speaker: I don't disagree with you, but I don't agree with you.
Speaker: I'm really in the middle of it.
Speaker: Which is fine.
Speaker: I, I'm just saying that company, and I'm not saying, you know, Stern, JJP, anything like that.
Speaker: They use these tactics.
Speaker: But what I am saying is it's a common tactic in the industry, especially when you're trying to, to create an illusion of scarcity.
Speaker: And right now,
Speaker: we're going to get into this, but the pinball market has significantly cooled down.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So they are going to use anything they can to sell product.
Speaker: So does this help sell product?
Speaker: Does it not help sell product?
Speaker: However,
Speaker: The one argument that I can think of that you could easily counteract everything I just said is they're not allowed to take money for games that aren't announced.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: So if there's, and sometimes this can hurt games too.
Speaker: And for example, and this was not a leak.
Speaker: This was a marketing campaign when Jersey Jack released Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker: And on their promotional information, the first 30 seconds was about a triple spinning disc.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which sounded cool, but it really was kind of a marketing thing.
Speaker: It wasn't really anything that had to do with the gameplay, but it was a cool feature just visually.
Speaker: And then when they had to pull that back or decided to pull that back, it did affect game sales.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so they can work both ways.
Speaker: But if you can't, if you have rumors for Jaws and they still can't take money for them, then you could argue this does nothing to help them.
Speaker: Well, and one thing that, because we've talked about this behind the scenes with different people as well, video games get announced like a year in advance, right?
Speaker: Like, or at least or two.
Speaker: Unless you're Nintendo, then it's like three months before or four months before or years before.
Speaker: It just depends.
Speaker: But with pinball, like we keep the title so under wraps.
Speaker: Do you think it would benefit a pinball company?
Speaker: I get you can't announce like a year and a half in advance.
Speaker: If the license doesn't work out and you've announced, hey, back to the future, Stern Zoom back to the future.
Speaker: This is all speculation, right?
Speaker: So we announced that and then like,
Speaker: two years later, like the licensor and Stern aren't meeting eye to eye.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And they decide to drop it and it gets moved on to a different company.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Then Stern's got like a black eye to say, right.
Speaker: Or they just got to pretend like we don't have it anymore, but we can't talk about who does, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Oops.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But like four months before reveal,
Speaker: Or does that cut out the legs of the, well, I guess that cuts out the legs of the, if in this case it is Jaws, if we were to announce Jaws at Venom's time.
Speaker: Well, it is rumored to be Jaws, right?
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: I haven't seen it.
Speaker: You haven't seen it.
Speaker: No, I haven't.
Speaker: Like we haven't seen the art of it.
Speaker: Like we, we don't know anything on it.
Speaker: So as bandit from blue, you would say, I've been watching too much blue with the kids.
Speaker: Allegedly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Allegedly.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: I'll put this out there.
Speaker: Let's say it's 2020.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And they announce early that, Hey, the next four games that are coming out are,
Speaker: The Mandalorian, Godzilla, Rush, and James Bond.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So here's where pinball is different.
Speaker: Pinball, people don't typically buy every game, but with a video game, releasing like a Mario Kart is not going to affect Mario Wonder.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it's 60 bucks and that's, and they're, they're entirely different game styles.
Speaker: Like, right.
Speaker: It's not going racing versus platformer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yes, it will, because there are people who are saying, well, I, I don't know what's coming out.
Speaker: So I'm, I have money and I want to buy a machine what's available now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But if they're like, well, I'm not really interested in venom and I think
Speaker: I know that again, allegedly jaws is coming out next and it's my dream theme.
Speaker: You're just going to say sayonara to Venom.
Speaker: You're not going to worry about it.
Speaker: So yes, it, it actually would not benefit them to release these things early because if you look at the interest of a game, as soon as it's released, it's really hot or it peaks or something like that.
Speaker: And not every game,
Speaker: I mean, I would say that Venom, probably because it was rumored for so long.
Speaker: And when it came out, it really coincided with a lull in the market.
Speaker: It was the dreaded summer release.
Speaker: And it didn't sell as many as I would think Stern would hope.
Speaker: So anything that could possibly take away from that is not a good thing.
Speaker: And we've talked about it before.
Speaker: Does the Elvira like a red lip kiss edition or whatever, or the Jurassic park 30th edition.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Does that affect?
Speaker: Yeah, it does actually, because there are people who are like, well, I, I don't know about venom, but I know Jurassic park's really good and I can get like a, an exclusive version of some sort.
Speaker: And so the, the 30th, I think did affect the,
Speaker: the venom sales and not in a good way.
Speaker: And if they knew that in Elwin, I mean, right now everyone's chasing Elwin, right?
Speaker: They are.
Speaker: It's if you look at just by the stern production schedule, Elwin's first game just barely went off production.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like they're still making Jurassic park.
Speaker: They're still making Avengers.
Speaker: They're still making Godzilla and they will be for the next 10 years, which Richie's only been gone for like a year and a half and none of his games are on the line.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: Nope.
Speaker: Is any of Borg's?
Speaker: Cause Russia isn't, is that a rush isn't on the line either.
Speaker: So Borg was his most, that's his most recent game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I mean, James Bond is still being made.
Speaker: Godzilla is still being made.
Speaker: I'm sure they'll still make the Mandalorian because it has the star Wars.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, turtles is done.
Speaker: Stranger things they did bring back.
Speaker: So, you know, so they can still vault stuff or, or semi vaulted, I guess.
Speaker: I mean, stranger things isn't really a vault.
Speaker: So there are ways of bringing it back, but you look at their production schedule and it is obvious that Elwyn's games are selling the most.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: They're ones that are in demand.
Speaker: If you're not aware of how this works, so they'll produce a game for a certain amount of time.
Speaker: So let's use Jurassic Park as an example.
Speaker: We'll put online for a couple of weeks.
Speaker: And then once it goes off, it goes to distributors and then distributors that sell all those orders.
Speaker: And then if they want more Jurassic Park, they say, hey, Stern.
Speaker: We have like five, six, seven more people that want Jurassic Park.
Speaker: And then that happens.
Speaker: That grows globally.
Speaker: And then Stern then goes off those numbers and says, hey, this is supposedly the demand we have.
Speaker: We're making these games.
Speaker: And so what that means is the reason all these L1 games are still online is because distributors, that's what they're asking for is these games.
Speaker: Sorry, we're shifting our next state of manufacturing.
Speaker: So we're pretty much into it right now.
Speaker: I want...
Speaker: I guess another thing, but okay.
Speaker: But the bottom line, do you think that, do you think that rumors help or hurt?
Speaker: Cause maybe we have different takes on this.
Speaker: I think it depends when they're released after our discussion right now.
Speaker: It really depends if, if allegedly jaws rumors dropped before venom, it could tank venom depending on the varying factors.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You release rumors right now, two to four weeks before we see the game, it could create some hype, especially if there's a lull in the line.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's funny because I watch a lot of people on Facebook and stuff like that.
Speaker: I really don't like to comment on these because, I don't know, it's hard to convey message through text, right?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But like the way it works, and this is what scares me.
Speaker: I really think Stern's way smarter and more involved in what they do.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I really personally me, I don't buy LEs, but you got to drop that number from 1,000 to 500.
Speaker: I think with how rapidly people aren't buying anymore, and your LEs are your day one shot of adrenaline to your distributors and your dealers, right?
Speaker: That is like the quick cash flow that your distributors need.
Speaker: High margin.
Speaker: It's the high margin.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And that's what helps put product on the shelf because let's be honest, like day one sales are awesome, but a lot of pinball slow burn.
Speaker: You have new people coming into the hobby.
Speaker: You have people that can't buy the game right now.
Speaker: They're waiting for it down the road.
Speaker: They do want to buy, like I'd prefer to buy new off the shelf versus like figuring out what the heck this guy did to the game.
Speaker: Like a lot of people are usually pretty nice to their games, but not so much, not so much.
Speaker: Or we've all got that game, right?
Speaker: We get at home, we're like, what the heck is this?
Speaker: What happened?
Speaker: Like, it worked when I was playing it for the five minutes I was in that guy's house.
Speaker: Now I've got it home.
Speaker: Something's not right.
Speaker: And they dig into it, and there's little gremlins that have built themselves in the game, right?
Speaker: So, but point being is, is like pros and preemons sit on the shelf.
Speaker: Like, they might go out door day one, but they're not as much as what Ellie's do, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But the problem is, is we...
Speaker: We're making L.E.
Speaker: 's like every every month, every other month.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You just you just said it like Jurassic Park 30th, Elvira's Blood Red Kiss.
Speaker: We've had I guess Stranger Things was another L.E.
Speaker: But there's been several L.E.'s.
Speaker: I'm surprised actually that Stranger Things didn't have kind of a season edition or something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm I'm surprised.
Speaker: But okay, these games are $13,000.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And yes, I know people who can buy these games, just they're on the every LE list.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: However, the majority of the people who buy games are in the pro to premium range.
Speaker: And a lot of them are, you know, with the economies the way they are right now.
Speaker: They're looking for deals and used games.
Speaker: And right now supply has eclipse demand.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and, and I think also too, is like, so with LE people that usually buy money is usually not an object, right?
Speaker: Like it could be with some, but I, I swear like if there's that person, I don't know if you know them, but it's like, they get every single LE, every release.
Speaker: I know, I know two who are on the,
Speaker: write a first refusal LE list.
Speaker: Like they just, and, and it's not like I, you know, I, I talked to enough people, but I know a lot more people who are buying, who are deciding between a pro and premium than the people who are deciding, well, should I get this LE or a premium?
Speaker: But the point being is, is like to these people, money isn't really an object, right?
Speaker: Like
Speaker: So what are you offering in an LE?
Speaker: You're offering something that a lot of people can't obtain.
Speaker: The problem is when you're making, how many Elvira editions did we decide after this?
Speaker: Between four?
Speaker: Between Super LE, the regular LE, the Blood Red Kiss, the 40th anniversary, and they were all 50 to 1,000 or 500 to 1,000 per run, right?
Speaker: Yeah, it's kind of around that.
Speaker: So let's roughly guesstimate about 1,500 LEs out there.
Speaker: Between the original run, it's got to be more than that.
Speaker: So also with the super LE, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker: I mean, it's in an industry where honestly, I mean, look at Spooky's numbers.
Speaker: They're producing about 1,500 per game now, anywhere from 1,000 to 1,500 depending on.
Speaker: So you're not really scarce at that point, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's become the, well, this is why.
Speaker: I'm speculating that JJP went away from the limited edition.
Speaker: I think they actually shot themselves in the foot with the guns and roses limited edition because they're saying, Hey, it's limited.
Speaker: Now I don't think anyone really cares.
Speaker: They basically immediately said, okay, that's their equivalency of a premium pinball machine.
Speaker: And
Speaker: And so for them to transition over to, you know, the platinum edition or something like that is smart because it allows them the flexibility to run as many as they want or go back to the well.
Speaker: And I don't think that marketing gimmick for the limited edition really helped out anyone feeling exclusivity in owning a Guns N' Roses.
Speaker: The collector's edition, yes, but the other ones...
Speaker: I don't know what the answer is because it seems like the demand for pinball has actually plateaued.
Speaker: I don't think it's gone down because I don't know people who are just like, oh, I just kind of moved on and I'm not really into pinball anymore.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I know a lot of people who they're in my category where they say, yeah, I could buy a game, but I'd have to sell a game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because they, they, they no longer have the space.
Speaker: They, they have maximized their space.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So it runs into like, cause I love all my games.
Speaker: I have, so you got to show me something better than what I got.
Speaker: And that's the challenge.
Speaker: And this is where we got into, we were talking about them doing what basically every industry does, right?
Speaker: Every industry, like a car industry, they say, Hey, we are closing out the 2000, uh, 2021 models come down new year's Eve, get a blowout, get a huge deal.
Speaker: New ones are coming in.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I also understand that pinball doesn't get dated as much as like cars with different releases.
Speaker: Cause you can say that a pinball machine that was, you know, Lord of the rings, it's 20 years old, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: People still are like, Oh, it's still fun.
Speaker: Even, even quirky and gimmicky with the limitations at the time, but because they have started dipping into that well and saying, Hey, we're going to blow out some of these old ones.
Speaker: it does cool people off a little bit.
Speaker: And the market is, it is a, oh, how can I say it?
Speaker: It's like a parliament.
Speaker: If you know much about politics outside the United States, a lot of it is parliament.
Speaker: So it's different groups getting together and they all say, well, this is my issue, boom.
Speaker: This is my issue, boom.
Speaker: And for them to get a majority in the parliament, they can't.
Speaker: cobble some of these together.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now that is like sales because there are going to be the group of LE buyers.
Speaker: There's going to be the group of premium buyers, the group of pro buyers, the group of new in box buyers, the group of used buyers, the group of routed.
Speaker: So you see where I'm going with all these different segments.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you are moving the needle a little bit when you start saying, hey, you may be interested in that game.
Speaker: However, if you don't buy it now and wait till the closeout, then you could probably get it for $800 cheaper.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That doesn't help because you're basically saying,
Speaker: okay, there's going to be a, you're setting an expiration date on the ability to collect a premium price for that game.
Speaker: And that price does that.
Speaker: The price expectation will translate across all titles.
Speaker: We all know all titles aren't created equal, but how they have, how they have
Speaker: How they've tried to balance that out is not all equals are produced in the same amount.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you want a Metallica, you can find a Metallica.
Speaker: If you want a Mustang, you may not be able to find a Mustang because they didn't make a lot of them.
Speaker: And so there still is that.
Speaker: And there's a reason why Stranger Things was so expensive for a while is because they cut the run short because it wasn't selling as much.
Speaker: And then it picked up steam.
Speaker: Deadpool was kind of the same way, actually.
Speaker: Deadpool didn't sell a lot.
Speaker: And then people said, oh, well, this is a fun game.
Speaker: And then they were done.
Speaker: And so the scarcity, you know, this is economics, right, kids?
Speaker: So that's how that works.
Speaker: But when you start teasing that
Speaker: you're moving those groups of people for the new inbox people to say, now you're creating a new segment and you're creating a closeout buyer segment.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Where they're willing to wait.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: that does have some long-term ramifications.
Speaker: Having extra LE options also affects the LE market because there are people, I am not one of these who says, I want to buy something because I don't want other people to have it.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But there are people who are like, oh, well, when Spooky,
Speaker: Spooky ran on this forever.
Speaker: Oh, there's only a hundred America's most haunted.
Speaker: There's only 250 Rob zombie or whatever they were.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: It was one 25, two 50.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So 500, they kept anybody who's played America's most haunted knows it's not that great of a game.
Speaker: It's not, it was, it was a good first.
Speaker: It was okay.
Speaker: It was a solid glorified homebrew.
Speaker: As Martin would say, it was a pinball machine that exists.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: It's not terrible, but it's not the same level as other things, but there are people who will buy them because they, it's like, oh, this is something cool that other people don't have, which I don't really care if that's your thing.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: To be honest, I've never played an America's Most Haunted.
Speaker: I've played it.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: And that's not for an eye on one to try.
Speaker: Everyone I've seen has been broken.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But let's just, I mean, okay.
Speaker: We know Spooky can have some, especially the early games can have some issues.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They were starting to come out.
Speaker: I don't know me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But what I am saying is that it's not like the first game that they produced that wasn't limited was TNA.
Speaker: And that does start affecting their ability because some people are like, oh, well, if I can get it anytime, then there's no rush.
Speaker: But the limited should have some sort of urgency associated with buying it.
Speaker: Some FOMO.
Speaker: Some FOMO, absolutely.
Speaker: And it does affect that a little bit.
Speaker: Now, the reason why I don't care too much about the L.E.
Speaker: I actually like the Jersey Jack option where you're basically able to get an LE version that has all the bells and whistles without being limited by amount.
Speaker: Like the premium, I probably would like to get some of the bells and whistles on the premium.
Speaker: Like, you know, hey, if I could buy a premium that had pre-installed art blades, pre-installed shaker motor,
Speaker: you know, pre-installed expression lighting, just all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: I would totally do it.
Speaker: And I actually like the art package on Godzilla for the premium better than the, than the LE.
Speaker: So, and same thing for star Wars, actually star Wars.
Speaker: I didn't like the millennium Falcon edition because I love the empire strikes back theme that was on the premium.
Speaker: And actually iron maiden is the same way.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The,
Speaker: The premium is the power slave album, which is their, that's the Zenith of their popularity.
Speaker: And so I wanted that art package.
Speaker: And I will say the, you know, the, the ACEs high trooper package was still really cool for the LE, but I wanted the premium.
Speaker: So that being said, I just want to be able to get all the bells and whistles without being limited.
Speaker: I gotcha.
Speaker: But there are some people who aren't going to pull the trigger if they can't have that limitation.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I feel like we've wrapped this one into a typo.
Speaker: Are there any danger zones we're toying with the way the industry is going, though, at this point?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: The reason why they allowed to have these blowout prices is because there were a lot of dealers that had their money tied up in existing stock.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they still do.
Speaker: And they weren't able because they kind of caught up and the world changed at least for a little bit under COVID because people weren't traveling.
Speaker: And so they actually had this extra money that they wanted to bring stuff home that was fun.
Speaker: So people were buying these things at an incredible rate.
Speaker: And therefore there's no reason why a, a premium, you should buy it and then be able to sell it for more than you bought it for.
Speaker: I, that means that there's a margin.
Speaker: It's like a scalper ticket.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There's a reason why, you know, if a ticket is worth $4,000, you shouldn't sell it for $200.
Speaker: Like that.
Speaker: And really,
Speaker: You know, by the way, I hate to break it to you.
Speaker: A lot of those reseller ticket things are actually from the actual artists and selling them at those prices.
Speaker: Shocker.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But that's what it should be, right?
Speaker: I shouldn't be able to go buy a Porsche for $20,000 and sell it for 90.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Porsche should sell it for 90 if that's what it's going for.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But what it does say is that the...
Speaker: the false escalation of prices during COVID are over.
Speaker: Oh, well, okay.
Speaker: Not false.
Speaker: I would say the COVID affected prices are over.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, and you and I, you are in, we're in this hobby well before COVID.
Speaker: I remember right before COVID, you could almost any JJP, you could get anywhere from about six to $9,000.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's just, it's what it was.
Speaker: Most sterns were in about the mid fives.
Speaker: On the pros, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, premiums were about $6,500 about then.
Speaker: Yeah, but then granted, the prices were lower then too.
Speaker: Like a pro was $62,000, $63,000 at that point.
Speaker: A premium was $75,000, I want to say.
Speaker: So, I mean, coming out of COVID, we're going into some interesting territory.
Speaker: Because even if you look pre-COVID, it's hard to have data points to tell you, hey, this is kind of where we're heading because...
Speaker: we're so different price wise.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This is, this is where the problem is because right now I just, okay.
Speaker: I just pulled a pin side.
Speaker: I didn't even search for anything.
Speaker: I just pulled a pin side and I searched and I just said, show me the market.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So show me the market.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So stranger things pro with UV kit.
Speaker: How much do you think?
Speaker: Uh, 6,500, 6,500,
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Venom premium.
Speaker: Five.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: No, I'm sorry.
Speaker: You said premium.
Speaker: I apologize.
Speaker: 7,500.
Speaker: 8,700.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: 8,700, but still.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: But that's the, the, the MSRP is 9,500.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: So that's a drop.
Speaker: Iron Maiden premium.
Speaker: 8,800.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And that's for a game.
Speaker: That's an L1 game.
Speaker: That's not being produced anymore.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there's Star Trek pro.
Speaker: 5,900.
Speaker: So my question is, so this is, we're talking a lot of new box.
Speaker: Do you think, cause our, our used market, especially our Bally Williams has jumped significantly.
Speaker: Do you think those come down?
Speaker: But since they're not being made anymore and they're, do they stay high?
Speaker: Because this is kind of what the market's shifted to on the used market.
Speaker: I, they will sell for that.
Speaker: They're not going to lower prices again.
Speaker: Because they'll just modify their manufacturing stamp.
Speaker: But they may not get $100 or $200.
Speaker: But we have actually talked about this, that if you adjust for inflation, they're actually pretty much where they were.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Really.
Speaker: The challenge is going to be, though...
Speaker: Are they going to be able to manufacture the same amount if the distributors are still stuck with a lot of stock that they're not able to move?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think really, honestly, the biggest telltale of the market is going to be with this next release.
Speaker: I think it's going to tell you a few different things.
Speaker: Either your consumer base is holding out for a specific product, whether that be license or a designer team.
Speaker: Let's say the whole team because let's be honest, L1 is great.
Speaker: We're just doing the umbrella, right?
Speaker: It's an L1 release.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: An L1 team release.
Speaker: So there's a lot of varying factors that go into.
Speaker: I'm really intrigued to see what happens with this next release.
Speaker: And it's not because of the rumors of it allegedly being Jaws or whatever else comes along with those rumors.
Speaker: My thing is, we've seen the industry do some pretty wild things in this last 6 to 12 months.
Speaker: And it was like we hit a crescendo, I want to say probably in the spring.
Speaker: And it seems like, as you're pointing out, the Guardians of the Galaxy, I pulled it up.
Speaker: we've got a guardians of the galaxy volume two refinery edition with the topper pro for six grand that's a refinery edition wow yeah dude that's that's something else oh yeah that's yeah okay i just barely saw that yeah and so that's a whole lot of purple
Speaker: And this is, I mean, Guardians of the Galaxy have sold so well.
Speaker: They've done, even though they said we're done running them, they're like, we're doing one more run.
Speaker: Okay, I'm really hoping that they just took it all with a purple light.
Speaker: Cause everything is purple on that game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Shadows are coming down there in the mid sixes.
Speaker: Now they're down to 55.
Speaker: So I think it just, it just all depends on what you're looking for.
Speaker: It, it does.
Speaker: It's I I'm just hoping that I'm concerned about the longterm health for some companies because Stern Stern is going to be fine.
Speaker: They're still making excellent games.
Speaker: They have been in the industry long enough to weather ups and downs.
Speaker: And if they, if they, let's be honest, if they have a turd three months later, they can move on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If they have one that falls flat, absolutely.
Speaker: Or they can dip back into the well, like they've been doing.
Speaker: Some other, other companies though, I, I'm concerned because you're, you're competing with Stern.
Speaker: I really, everybody is competing with Stern and the benchmark right now is Godzilla at 9,500.
Speaker: Well, I'm not even worried about manufacturing.
Speaker: Like I am worried about manufacturing.
Speaker: I'm worried about distributors.
Speaker: We created such a weird buying frenzy in these last couple, two, three years.
Speaker: And a lot of people joined in to be a distributor in the last two or three years.
Speaker: And it's never been like this where you just, you don't have to have products sitting on shelf.
Speaker: And all of a sudden the last six, 12 months.
Speaker: You do.
Speaker: It's overwhelmingly, I mean, that's why we, that's why they've said, Hey, you can sell rush.
Speaker: You can sell Led Zeppelin.
Speaker: You can sell.
Speaker: I'm still kind of shocked by the way that they like, I thought the demand was still enough for rush that they would have run more, but that's not just the weirdest thing.
Speaker: Like it's like, it won like game of the year last year.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's really weird when, and the matter of the fact is too, it won game of the year and they had stopped running it by that point.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It just, it's weird.
Speaker: I will say granted pinball is driven by themes and rush is a very specific demographic.
Speaker: You're telling me it's a niche theme in a niche hobby.
Speaker: Well, my favorite was the,
Speaker: One time, Jeff Rivera was talking about Iron Maiden and he talked about Iron Maiden's music.
Speaker: And the funny thing is, I grew up on Iron Maiden.
Speaker: I grew up on Rush.
Speaker: And so I'm a fan of both of them and I own both of the machines.
Speaker: But he talked about Iron Maiden is like Rush took drugs and learned how to play metal.
Speaker: And he's like, I can't stand it.
Speaker: I can't stand it.
Speaker: So it was funny.
Speaker: But so I totally get it.
Speaker: And there are people who sold Iron Maiden because they couldn't stand the music.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Here, here's something that's, that is interesting though.
Speaker: With Rothrills.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You know how we're getting more insider connected, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Rothrills.
Speaker: They sell big buck Hunter now at home and there's two versions you can buy.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You can, you can get a standalone version.
Speaker: or you can get a subscription version.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The standalone version, it's, it's kind of cost prohibitive.
Speaker: You pay a lot of money and you're buying the content, but you're only, you can only play like, you know, five, six, five or six of the games or whatever.
Speaker: But I thought it was like, you get access to it, but you have to buy the license, like you have to renew the license.
Speaker: Well, you could, you can actually buy some outright, but it's kind of a ridiculous amount.
Speaker: It's like,
Speaker: you know, Terminator for 1500 bucks or something.
Speaker: And really, as long as you keep hitting the start button on a home game, you can blast through one of those games in five, 10 minutes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So, and it's the same game and it's, it's not like there's a, the ball's live, right?
Speaker: So would you ever think that Stern would go down that rabbit hole and
Speaker: of having a subscription based thing for a home game.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: They hired a guy from Disney that worked for Disney plus services.
Speaker: So he, he, he knows his way around subscription based services.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I is the, I, the internet connectivity.
Speaker: There's, there's some really great things about it.
Speaker: There are also some dark possibilities.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that it would just be really weird because what do you sell?
Speaker: Like it would have to be DLC, right?
Speaker: Like it would have to be DLC, but you can't just inhibit.
Speaker: It would just be, but it's not like there's features that you could leave out of the game physically and then put them in later, except for maybe like UV kid on stranger thing.
Speaker: Kind of do with the topper though.
Speaker: Like I know it's like silly.
Speaker: It's like goat mode or whatever on Jurassic park, but it's more of a novelty than it is.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You're towing a fine line.
Speaker: And honestly, I'm going to leave that up to Stern.
Speaker: I'm not even going to speculate.
Speaker: I'm not giving ideas.
Speaker: I'm just wondering where they, where it's going.
Speaker: It's a possibility.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: Let's get to, we're over our hour.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I talked way too long and I ranted way too long.
Speaker: I, if you, yeah, I apologize.
Speaker: Before we finish this, if you want to get ahold of Scott, I'll get that information here in a little bit.
Speaker: We promised that we would be giving away or not us.
Speaker: I guess JJP was generous.
Speaker: JJP supplied us with a banner so we can give it away.
Speaker: We appreciate their effort and Ken being the marketing guy.
Speaker: Great guy.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So Ken Cromwell has provided us with an Elton John banner.
Speaker: He will provide it.
Speaker: It's not been shipped out yet.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But to save time, we did the trying right before the podcast and Luke Konecki.
Speaker: I hope I said your last name right.
Speaker: It's got to be Konecki like in Greece.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm kidding.
Speaker: I think it's Konecki.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So congratulations to you.
Speaker: I will be contacting you via the way that you contacted me and congratulations.
Speaker: We'll work out how to get that to you.
Speaker: And we appreciate everybody who entered by the way.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Thank you so much, everyone.
Speaker: There was an amazing amount of response to our contest.
Speaker: It just blew up.
Speaker: And we do appreciate people reaching out.
Speaker: I don't want this whole thing to be negative.
Speaker: There's been some great emails in this past couple weeks.
Speaker: I do want to bring an update, too.
Speaker: Larry DeMar has been talking to me.
Speaker: He's been trying to find those home ROMs.
Speaker: There has been a lot of interest for those home ROMs.
Speaker: World Cup soccer, Twilight Zone.
Speaker: He said, if you want to get a hold of Twilight Zone one,
Speaker: It is actually on planetary pinballs website.
Speaker: So the people that own the rights to the Bally Williams stuff, they have it posted there in a zip file.
Speaker: So go ahead.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Do what you need to do to take, but I can't burn it.
Speaker: Like it's a chip.
Speaker: I don't know how to burn it.
Speaker: Find someone that can burn it for you.
Speaker: There's someone nearby.
Speaker: I know that there is.
Speaker: If someone knows how to burn like the home version for Twilight Zone, get a hold of me because I would love to have the home version.
Speaker: So you can get direct to Lost in the Zone.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So then like Larry was saying on the interview, it's really cool.
Speaker: Hey, if there's a home version of Black Rose, I'll take that too.
Speaker: He said that the way it works is it puts you into that mode, but
Speaker: Then you start the game over and you get no points awarded.
Speaker: You get to explore the mode without cheating the game.
Speaker: It's so cool.
Speaker: It's cool because not all of us can get to the end mode every game.
Speaker: I think it would just be fun to show people.
Speaker: Do we have any other closing thoughts before we wrap this up?
Speaker: No, I know I started with a downer.
Speaker: I really, a hot button issue for me is bullying.
Speaker: Like it really just, I have no tolerance for it.
Speaker: And so please be positive, help people out and speak up for people.
Speaker: If you feel like they are being bullied.
Speaker: Like be their support staff, because if you're not calling them out on their bad behavior, then it typically continues and it leads toward just condoning.
Speaker: So I apologize for nothing.
Speaker: I feel very strongly about that.
Speaker: And I'm, I really do want us to be a, a fun area and maybe a diversion to your day.
Speaker: And hopefully just something that we can experience pinball together.
Speaker: We don't care what your background is, what your income is, what your orientation is, what your religion is, what your politics.
Speaker: I don't care.
Speaker: Just come play pinball and be a good person.
Speaker: Like don't, don't be toxic.
Speaker: That's not a high level.
Speaker: Unless you're jamming your knee into the front of my corn door, you're welcome to hang out with me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't hurt my machines.
Speaker: I'll escort you off the premises.
Speaker: But seriously, I mean, this isn't just about one specific person.
Speaker: This is about bullying and really stand up.
Speaker: What else can you say to that point?
Speaker: I see it too much.
Speaker: Online has made it worse.
Speaker: Yeah, it really has.
Speaker: And I talk to my kids a lot about this.
Speaker: There is a bravado that comes with online.
Speaker: But if you have an issue, there are appropriate ways of dealing with it.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And so I appreciate those that have reached out to me in the past privately so we could discuss it.
Speaker: I don't think posting it on Facebook.
Speaker: I mean, I guess.
Speaker: And deleting it later.
Speaker: If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: Oh, I just got my shoes, by the way.
Speaker: I forgot to tell you, I finally got my shoes.
Speaker: They feel awesome.
Speaker: Great.
Speaker: I'm glad you got your shoes.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: Finish up.
Speaker: That's good to know.
Speaker: I appreciate that because there's other people that have ordered shoes that were, I got to talk to them and see if they've received theirs as well.
Speaker: So thank you for letting me know.
Speaker: if you do want to get some of our swag, silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
Speaker: Thanks again, Will Odding for all that you do with that.
Speaker: I was talking to a buddy outside of this hobby.
Speaker: He does fly fishing and he's trying to sell his own merch.
Speaker: And I'm like, why don't you have like a silver ball swag?
Speaker: And he's like, what's silver ball swag?
Speaker: So I explained it to him.
Speaker: He's like, that's very unique.
Speaker: And it's very like specific to your guys's hobby, like, like your industry or whatever.
Speaker: So I appreciate Will for like opening that Avenue to allow us to do that.
Speaker: So yeah,
Speaker: Back to what I was saying.
Speaker: So if you want to contact us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: You can get a hold of us via X, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, all at LoserKidPinball.
Speaker: Or Gmail.
Speaker: Or Gmail.
Speaker: Go ahead and subscribe.
Speaker: We had an explosion of subscribers via Facebook in this last month.
Speaker: It was ridiculous, like 250 people in less than 30 days.
Speaker: Sweet.
Speaker: If you want to look at our beautiful faces, you can watch us on YouTube.
Speaker: And then maybe go back to listening to us.
Speaker: And we do appreciate it.
Speaker: Like I said, we did officially hit the milestone of 500,000 listens.
Speaker: Yeah, that's impressive.
Speaker: I don't even know what to say.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Obviously, you guys are listening.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: I feel like we've made it.
Speaker: We've arrived.
Speaker: Hopefully nice guy famous.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Nice guy famous.
Speaker: So thanks again for tuning in.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: We have a few things lined up, so it's, but today we want to do a little recap.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: And what was the other thing I was gonna say?
Speaker: It's Christmas time.
Speaker: It's the holidays.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: It's Hanukkah.
Speaker: It's, it's, it's whatever you want, you know, whatever you believe.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Whatever you put your faith in, whether, even if you don't put your faith in anything,
Speaker: So the schedule might be a little skimwampus here in December.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because I'm going to U2 in two weeks.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So go enjoy your family.
Speaker: Go tell someone that you've had a feud with, like, hey, man, let's squash it.
Speaker: Let's talk.
Speaker: Let's break bread.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: See you in two weeks.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We'll see you later.
Speaker: Thank you.
