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Episode 93 Steve Anderson
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This week on Sharing the Magic, we’re excited to feature the talented Steve Anderson, animator and voice actor extraordinaire! 🎙️✨ With a career that spans some of Disney's most beloved films, Steve brings a unique perspective on the art of animation and storytelling. 🎨🎤
From his early days animating iconic characters to lending his voice to memorable roles, Steve shares insights into the creative process and the magic behind the scenes at Disney.
We explore:
- The intricate balance between animation and voice performance
- How collaboration drives innovation in animated storytelling
- Personal anecdotes from his time working with Disney legends
🎧 Tune in for an inspiring conversation that celebrates the artistry and heart of animation! Remember, every great story begins with a little bit of magic!
Follow 👉 @sharingthemagicpod for more captivating talks with the storytellers who bring our favorite characters to life. ✨
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Sharing the Magic' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that sweeps you away into the enchanting realms of Disney. Each week, we're joined by a special guest, be it a magician casting real-life spells of wonder, or a Disney expert revealing hidden secrets in the heart of the happiest place on Earth.
00:00:20
Speaker
Together, we'll venture down glittering paths, uncovering tales of daring heroes, legendary places, and whimsical wonders that make Disney sparkle.
00:00:31
Speaker
So prepare to be enchanted, delighted, and transported to a place where dreams dance, fairy tales breathe, and the magic is real.
Meet the Hosts and Discussing Disney
00:00:42
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Sharing the Magic. I'm your host, Barry, and tonight we have a fantastic guest joining us. He's the director of some of your favorite movies and mine, and I can't wait to talk to him. But first, let's go ahead and we will introduce our co-host. First, we'll say hi to Mike and Lisa. How are you guys doing the tonight?
00:01:04
Speaker
I'm good. We're doing great. awesome here we're super excited and i will say just one quick little thing with adoption being a huge part of my life i'm super excited to hear from our guests tonight for obvious reasons fantastic all right next we have james how you doing my friend Well, the king has returned ah from my travels. um Well, I'm doing great. I'm happy to be ah be back. i've you know I've been in and out of the podcast, so I'm happy to see all your wonderful faces. I'm excited about our guest because he's worked on some of my favorite movies, not just Meet the Robinsons. So I'm really excited to talk about his journey through Disney and to hear more about just him as an overall aye awesome guy.
00:01:57
Speaker
So. Great.
Guest Introduction: Director Steve Anderson
00:01:59
Speaker
All right. And last but not least, it's the goofy dupe himself. Jeff, Jeff, how are doing tonight? I'm doing, I'm doing good. I, last week I was sick as a dog. I was so tired and I'm still tired, but, uh, but I'm here and I'm excited. So yeah.
00:02:15
Speaker
Awesome. Well, as I mentioned before, um our our guest has ah done a plethora of different Disney movies, and without getting into all the movies he's done, I'll let him do that.
00:02:30
Speaker
But I am happy to introduce our guest tonight, and that's Steve Anderson. Steve, how are you doing tonight? Hey, I'm doing great. Thank you all for having me and for all those very kind words in your introduction.
00:02:43
Speaker
appreciate that. Awesome. All right, Steve, as I start with every podcast, um we like to know how you fell in love with Disney. why don't you tell us the little story behind that?
Steve's Disney Inspirations and Animation Journey
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, I mean, i can't remember a time where I wasn't watching Disney movies. I was i was raised on a very strict diet of Disney. i Grew up in a conservative very conservative household. So, um ah you know, that was a safe bet. If you wanted stuff that was good for your kids and families and and really great entertainment, that's where you went.
00:03:19
Speaker
So um I'm sure the first movie I ever saw was a Disney movie. I feel like I don't know if I'm making it up. I always say my, I think the first movie I saw was Snow White at a re-release in a drive, a drive-in movie theater.
00:03:35
Speaker
Um, but then, you know, we saw all the re-releases, all of the new movies, which were kind of few and far between when I grew up in the seventies. Um, wonderful world at Disney every Sunday. I was constantly like, we would, we did Sunday morning and Sunday night church.
00:03:53
Speaker
And a Sunday night church ended at 7 p.m. And that's when Wonderful World of Disney started. So I was constantly tugging on my parents, you know, pant legs saying, stop socializing. I want to get home to watch Wonderful World of Disney. Books, records, everything that I could get my hands on that was Disney. And there was something about Disney, the style of Disney, the characters, the acting, the the expressions it just made me want to draw it made me want to try to capture those expressions um and so disney was really the kickoff for all of my my loves drawing uh filmmaking storytelling um so it's pretty much everything for me so i i know a lot of animators that we have um had on here a lot of them had
00:04:42
Speaker
you know, different styles of cartoons that like to watch growing up, you know, it just wasn't Disney alone. Um, did you have some other ones say that, that, uh, you'd love to watch as well?
00:04:53
Speaker
For sure. I mean, Looney Tunes was, is definitely the other one that was a big, you know, oop either, uh, afternoons on TV, whenever we get home from school or Saturday morning, Bugs Bunny Roadrunner show,
00:05:08
Speaker
anytime I could see Looney Tunes stuff. Hanna-Barbera was everywhere. So Flintstones, Jetsons, ah Scooby-Doo, all of those shows. um
00:05:20
Speaker
Watched Popeye cartoons, watched tons of Casper cartoons. Woody Woodpecker was on our local station, TV station a ton. um So all of that, any animation I could get my eyes wrapped around, I i i would do it. um Because again, it was you know as we all know, it was not as accessible as it is to as as it is today. nor were as much animation being made back then as there is today. So um you know sometimes it was like finding water in the desert, but I i found it anyway I could.
00:06:03
Speaker
Even TV commercials. Sorry, sorry, not to interrupt. But like even, or or TV specials, like the Peanuts, all the Peanuts specials, the Rankin-Bass specials. But even like when once we got a VCR, I would even ah dike keep my my finger ready on the record button. And if an animated commercial came on like a serial commercial or for whatever i would hit record as fast as i could even just that because a lot of times commercials would give you different styles of animation not quite as you know not not like the disney looney tunes kind of flavor but um uh anyways so all animations sorry to interrupt no that's cool i'm like you know i still to this day i still watch commercials you know because now we have them you go on youtube and there'll be like a ah compilation of just like
00:06:49
Speaker
all of serial commercials from 1980 to 90s, whatever, and i'm I fall asleep to it, and I just i love it. i So, i i yeah. You bring up commercials. It makes me think, hey, Vern, the Ernest commercials. you have them now?
00:07:05
Speaker
so Yeah, I watch those too. Yeah. So, bringing commercials and all these different styles of animation, was there one select style or artist that you really gravitated to in those younger days of drawing and wanting to learn how to draw? Because I know a lot of people who, you know, love the art blank stuff and all the blank stuff. They like they love Disney. They love whatever it is, Rankin-Bass. I mean, was there just one specific style, Dr. Seuss even, you know, for a billion years?
00:07:32
Speaker
yeah I mean, for me, it was definitely Disney. i was I just was so taken by the Disney look. And that was, sometimes I would try to draw other studios characters, Looney Tunes and Popeye and whatever.
00:07:48
Speaker
um But it was really Disney that that I wanted to try to draw like And I wanted to be able to capture the appeal and the the range of emotions that Disney animation had.
00:08:00
Speaker
um I didn't know who the people were. you know, I didn't know who the artists were. To me, it was just Disney animation. Of course, later finding out animators like Freddie Moore was, was I was definitely gravitated to his stuff. um The Nine Old Men, but specifically Milt Call.
00:08:18
Speaker
And then as I was getting a little bit older and the new generation came in, certainly Glen Keane was big fan. influence with like the bear fight and Fox and the Hound and Rattigan and Great Mouse Detective.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I don't necessarily draw like any of them. like literally draw like any of them but uh i've done i can when i look at their work i see okay i i was pulling from that or that little symbol that glenn uses for a fist i stole that i didn't really know i was doing it but i did or the way freddie moore does a pose or something again not putting myself on that level either of those artists but um once i realized who the people were and i could pick out their work i started realizing okay
00:09:02
Speaker
I can see who I'm responding to now. So there were specific artists within that Disney, ah the Disney umbrella that I was responding to. I just didn't know it at the time.
00:09:14
Speaker
think it's kind of sad because you're sitting telling us about cartoons. And I just think there's a travesty that there's no more Saturday, Saturday morning cartoons because yeah i remember, I mean, one of one of the cartoons that I vividly remember growing up was,
00:09:32
Speaker
a wacky racist when they when when when they were on all time and Captain Caveman and things like that and i and i and it's funny because you mentioned how people um got it into and how they were drawing different characters things like that But you can tell the company themselves how they used to draw back then. Because, you know, Hannah Byrne used to draw one way, and then Warner Brothers used to draw another way, and then Disney used draw one way. So um when when you were learning how to draw, were you taking different techniques from all these cartoons, or were you just strictly looking at Disney being like, okay, this is the the style, this is the path I want to go down?
00:10:14
Speaker
I was looking at Disney, but i again, realizing sort of right in retrospect, I was pulling from all of those different influences. I think just by osmosis, just watching cartoons constantly, I started picking up ah the language of cartoons. And to be perfectly honest, not that this is something really to be emulated, but I i learned to draw by copying. i was I was literally would take a book or a comic book or something and just copy it because I wanted to. That was like a way to kind of re-experience it for me, I guess, was to try to redraw it. um
00:10:48
Speaker
So I was ingesting all of those cartoon symbols and and little iconographies and things like that. ah not Again, not on not intentionally, but i that's what I was doing. And then gradually ah did my own stuff and started you know developing my own style. But um I can certainly see those those little seeds ah from all these other influences. So it wasn't intentional, but I mean,
00:11:17
Speaker
I was intentionally copying, but I was not intentionally trying to um learn. it was just something I wanted to do. And and by doing it, I learned.
Teaching Animation and Storytelling at CalArts
00:11:29
Speaker
I saw that you also were a professor, i believe, at Caltech or CalArts. Yep. um Can you tell us a little bit about your time doing that? Is that so still something that you do to this day?
00:11:46
Speaker
I haven't taught for a while. I stepped away in 2017. think all total I taught about 10 years, but in sort of like five year blocks.
00:11:56
Speaker
And my class was a story class. So I talked about storyboarding the kind of the technique of storyboarding geared a little more to the disney way of doing things the kind of the looser simpler more gestural kind of classic disney storyboarding because that's stuff that i love and i think is is worth preserving um But then also talk about story concepts, story theory, 3x structure. It was not a screenwriting class, but i I broke down a lot of screenwriting concepts.
00:12:29
Speaker
um Overall, my what I would tell the students is I want this class i want to make sure in this class, that when you leave, you have been exposed to all of these terms and these concepts so that if and when you find yourself in a story room, a writer's room, ah you know in any kind of story development circumstance, you know these terms, you've heard them and they are familiar with you. And at but you don't have to be an expert, but at least you're like, oh oh, I know, I've heard about that. I know what that is to try to get but all the students just familiar with that kind of thing. So it was kind of a theory slash,
00:13:06
Speaker
practical class of just about general animation storytelling and and cinematic storytelling. I love that. ah So often students think they have to know everything going out, but giving them like the the general um general experience plus knowing where they can find the answer later, that has to be valuable. i know that's valuable in my profession. it sounds like it must be valuable in yours as well.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah. and and And this kind of stuff, story development, movie making, there is no there aren't there are principles there are guidelines but there are no rules and what works for one movie and makes it a success you could duplicate that exact same process for the next project and it could be a failure so that's the thing is that there's really no mastery of it it's just a knowledge of what You know what the building blocks are. And then you just dive in and every every project is like the first one you've ever done. So it would be very disingenuous for me to teach to tell the students, OK, now that you finish this class or anybody's class, for that matter, now you know how to do it because there really there really is no how to do it.
00:14:23
Speaker
that actually hits home for me because I just finished my first movie. Oh, congratulations. Yes. So like these concepts are like, I've, these are things I've been learning my whole life and I took a masterclass of Aaron Sorkin's and kind of same concepts were taught. And the one question that you, you kind of, you, you said you taught a little bit of, you know, animation storytelling and cinematic storytelling. And I, I work in the cinema aspect of things. What is the difference from animation storytelling and cinema storytelling?
00:14:52
Speaker
uh ah that's a good question because in some ways think they are the same because it's all visual communication it's all telling stories through pictures and through ah through a quote-unquote camera um either a real camera or a virtual camera or an implied camera um telling it through a through a point of view um and and using you know obviously close-ups camera moves over the show all the cinema stuff um that said ah when we talk about animation storytelling i do think there is um
00:15:37
Speaker
um
00:15:41
Speaker
and and It's a little bit muddy because there's so many different types of animation now. There's obviously there's 2D, there's CG. Well, there's always been multiple parts, but I think there's a big difference between two d and CG. There's a different way you I think you have to approach each of those things, even though all of the fundamentals are the same. Um, but I think for me, 2d animation is much more of an impression of, of reality. It's a caricature of reality, whereas CG can duplicate reality, uh, to varying degrees. Some, there can be really cartoony CG, and then there can be super uber realistic CG, but even the cartoony stuff is, has texture is rendered, has volume, volumetric lighting, that kind of stuff.
00:16:25
Speaker
Um, so it does, it does, uh, it replicates reality a lot more. So I think with something simpler or or more impressionistic like 2D animation, you really have to, your're yourre you're dealing with the concepts of graphics, of color, line, shape, movement, um and always thinking of things in those real simple terms.
00:16:51
Speaker
um still dealing again still dealing with implied space and you're still creating depth, even if it's 2D, but it's done with those graphic principles.
00:17:02
Speaker
um And I think that's what storyboarding is all about. It's really about understanding, you know breaking up the the frame and design and all that kind of thing.
00:17:15
Speaker
Not that those things don't apply to live action or to CG. They certainly do. um But I think the hand-drawn animation, I think, is much more her is really traffic's in those kind of, that kind of graph, those graphic concepts. So earlier when I was teaching, there was still CG, but it was, it was still coming into its own. So a lot of the earlier stuff, we were still doing 2D. So i was focusing a lot on that kind of stuff.
00:17:46
Speaker
That was a really ramble answer. No, that was perfect. No, because because as someone who write you know writes my own stories and tries to tell them, it's like there are two mediums, but they are basically the same in various forms. Like you said, you hit the you hit the concepts just perfect the way like I visioned them in my own head was once you know applied space, drawing and lines and colors is where the other one is more different.
00:18:09
Speaker
Physical depth it's more you're there You're more present and CG Is kind of that in between of both In a way and that I've always thought of it is like CG app applies on the real But it's still within falls within animation And right i really i really like that explanation Especially for our listeners because We we get directors And we get animators and we get you know all these different you know creative types But it's never been explained That way before and it's It's sometimes what we, the the listener or even the viewer, if you watch it on YouTube or or you you hear about it in any form, you want that explanation because it it breaks it down to its simplest form. And that's what I ultimately believe Disney animation did to the world and has allowed many animators like yourself to continue growing in the field that you're in because...
00:18:59
Speaker
And it's allowed that applied space, but it's grown in such a vast way. And people need to understand that there are two differences in the applied filmmaking. Though they're films, cinematically, it's one's different and animation is right there with. I've never looked at animation any differently or any lesser than an actual film because they're two very talented mediums.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. And I'll add, sorry, one really quick thing to that as well. Different, like you the question difference between kind of learning the cinematics and then learning animation storytelling, certainly as storyboard artists in animation, the other component is you also have to be an actor. You also have to learn how to draw the characters. So it's not just setting up the shots and and knowing how to communicate what the camera is seeing, but then also you're the performer and particularly in feature animation and particularly even more so at Disney. you are performing the characters. Yes, there are still animators that take your work later on and really dial in the performance, but you're setting that stage as a, as a storyboard artist. So that was another part of it that, um, you know, that I feel really adamant about that people learn that stuff in storyboarding is not just the cinema language, but also acting, uh, expression, body language, gesture, that
Steve's Early Disney Experiences and Career Transition
00:20:20
Speaker
kind of thing. Cause that,
00:20:22
Speaker
in a way that's almost a greater tool that feature animation storyboard artists use than the camera because the camera you can sort of fudge, but you can't fudge your performance. 100% no. And you you just hit something, maybe it had ah a visual, you you hit that idea. There's a scene in 101 Dalmatians when Cruella is coming in and I think he's going up the stairs and it's this whole clutter, but there's a lot there.
00:20:48
Speaker
And it it was really you like I can imagine, like you said, that that the animators are actors. I can just imagine the animator at that time, whoever animated that whole scene, just acting that out and being that that character overall. So that makes so much sense as a as someone who works in cinema, because you're right, we can fudge so much.
00:21:10
Speaker
But in animation, you really can't because you have to act it out in front of people to get that point across so you can so they understand that story better. Exactly, yeah. That's such a phenomenal thing. was What was that like doing Tarzan, for example?
00:21:27
Speaker
uh you mean the uh like just being a storyboard artist on yeah yeah yeah well for me it was a pretty amazing moment because that was my first ah just my first job at disney um and it was certainly dream mine to always to to get to be there and now i was getting to be there as a storyboard artist and that was also pretty exciting I had worked at another studio for about four years prior to going on to Tarzan, so got my feet wet doing a lot of different animation and doing a lot of different, ah spending some time in different disciplines of animation. um
00:22:03
Speaker
But then getting to to be at at tars at Disney as a storyboard artist was really exciting. And that movie in particular was a really fun one it was a challenge because it took a while to really crack that story i think i was on it for about three years um as a storyboard artist and uh that's that's not unusual of a time frame but there was for some reason that one took a while to crack um but uh i mean it was just
00:22:36
Speaker
It was so much fun. And my learning curve on that movie was just enormous. I i shudder when I look at my my work from that movie. Obviously, it was a necessary step in my evolution. But wow, when I look at it, I think, oh, my gosh. Wow. Is that stuff not good?
00:22:55
Speaker
And I but I came out on the other side of it. then moving on Emperor's New Groove. And i I felt like by the time I got to Groove, still lot to learn, but I felt like, okay, think I think I have a and a little bit of an equilibrium being established now after you know three years on Tarzan and kind of learning the ropes at Disney and get building some confidence. so But really proud of having worked on that film. It was really cool.
00:23:28
Speaker
All right. So before we get it, my head starts exploding and we're only not even halfway through. So, Steve, why don't you go ahead and tell us how you got into Disney? Tell us how, you know, you know i'm I'm the kind of guy that thought it was really cool taking the tracing paper when I was younger and tracing things and showing everyone thinking, hey,
00:23:48
Speaker
I can draw, which I really couldn't draw, but you know that tracing paper really really did the trick. So tell us about how you how you got into working for Disney.
00:24:00
Speaker
Well, I was really fortunate because um the the studio I worked at prior to Disney, I worked with both of the directors that ultimately would do Tarzan, Kevin Lima and Chris Buck.
00:24:12
Speaker
Even prior to be working at that studio, Chris Buck was my animation teacher at CalArts. So I knew Chris for for quite a while and we got along very well.
00:24:25
Speaker
And then I met Kevin at this other studio and we got along very well. And um I was at the time I was animating at the studio. I was an animator for the first couple of years working there.
00:24:38
Speaker
um But it was really Kevin Lima who gave me my first shot at storyboarding. He knew I was interested in in learning about it. And he was developing a project there that didn't end up getting made, but he let me play and let me give gave me a sequence to storyboard. So that kind of started that journey.
00:24:57
Speaker
And then when Kevin and Chris were ah working on their deals to go direct on on Tarzan, they very graciously extended the invitation for me to go over there and be a storyboard artist on the film. so um So I, of course, jumped at the chance. I very quickly learned after a couple years of animating at this other studio, being an animator at this other studio, that animation was not my thing. Being an animator was not my thing. um I enjoyed doing the drawings, my poses, but then all the technical stuff of 2D animation just was way over my head. i ah did not draw in that kind of a technical way.
00:25:42
Speaker
Um, but storyboarding was great because you can draw much more, you know, again, you can imply a lot more, you can draw looser or gestural. You can, you do your poses in your boards and then you're done. You don't have to in between them. You don't to worry about, are my volumes growing and shrinking from frame to frame, all that stuff. And, uh, so I was much more suited to story and, uh, and then Kevin and Chris just gave me that fantastic opportunity. So that's where I, where I ended up.
00:26:15
Speaker
so why um So getting into doing it and Tarzan.
Exploring Non-Mainstream Disney Films
00:26:21
Speaker
Tarzan is a fantastic movie. Emperor's New Groove, I wish more people would have... I mean, the love for that movie. i my all All we do is watch that and Croc's New Groove the whole time because there's just something about...
00:26:38
Speaker
um It just feels like a bunch of these movies are these niche movies that you know meet the Robinsons and um movies like that, which which I love. And I think this there's just something... you know even Even movies like Treasure Planet and and movies like that, they have to have this little... ah It just feels like... All right, we're not Disney...
00:27:04
Speaker
But we're Disney. we we're you we're Yeah, we're not we're not showing you, Mickey. We're not showing you Goofy. We're not showing you... But, you know, we're not even showing you Princesses. What we're showing you is here's a story that we thought up on our own.
00:27:19
Speaker
You know, it may have been tied back to some Hans Christian Andersen story or something like that. And that's great. But... um But going into it, how how do you how do you approach movies like like this? Especially like Meet the Robinsons because, you know, the the story with the bowler hat guy and everything like that and how it turned out from, you know, point A to point B, I think it was just fantastic.
00:27:46
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate that. and And yeah, to your point, I certainly started at Disney in an interesting time where ah the the Monday I started was the the the the weekend prior was the Pocahontas wrap party.
00:28:02
Speaker
So it was just at and and still Lion King money was flowing through the water fountains and the in the in the studio was like there was still all this prosperity. But then gradually, very soon, the movie started doing less and less. And and the princess stuff or the fairy tale stuff kind of seemed to be wearing thin. So the studio embarked on some really interesting experiments and some unique ideas and.
00:28:25
Speaker
So it was an interesting time to to be there. um And, you know, I think, well, for you know, there's different ways you can start ah a movie. Sometimes it is really just a germ of an idea, a spark that somebody has, a character or a situation or a world or just a subject matter.
00:28:47
Speaker
Other times it can be, you know, in the case of Meet the Robinsons, it started off as a children's book. And then before I got onto it, it was the the studio had developed a script based on that. There was actually quite a few attempts over the years to develop something with that original book, A Day with Wilbur
The Impact of 'Meet the Robinsons'
00:29:07
Speaker
Robinson. Yeah.
00:29:08
Speaker
And then as I was finishing up Brother Bear, they had they had done a script. They had a script. So they handed that to me and I had already expressed interest in directing at that point. So they said, would this be something you'd be interested in doing?
00:29:21
Speaker
And for all kinds of reasons, I said, Oh, yeah, I got it. I have to be able to do this. That goes to our our adoption angle that you spoke of earlier, Lisa. um And we can get into that now or can get that later. but um But that was just the case of...
00:29:42
Speaker
the right material hitting the right person. They had no idea that I was, that I was also adopted. Um, it was a complete coincidence that they gave me that, but, but maybe it wasn't, maybe it was all meant to be, um, meant to be.
00:29:55
Speaker
yeah So there's all kinds of different, there's so many different ways you can, you can generate a, one of these movies and all of them and many more have been used to, to create these Disney features. There's so many, so many Genesis points for them.
00:30:16
Speaker
So since you brought up adoption again, um i have adopted five kiddos. They were white foster kids, five different families, no,
00:30:28
Speaker
blood relation. So anytime a movie touches adoption, um it it can bring a lot of emotions um throughout the movies. um How you know, since we're talking about Meet the Robinsons now, um what has been your reception with that movie? You know, were personal connections. how How did... Is there anything you can tell us about the movie in particular?
00:30:59
Speaker
Well, i mean, the... the ah
00:31:04
Speaker
I mean, it's it's the gift that keeps on giving. I mean, that the movie is, I forget, it's not quite 20 years. I think it's a couple years shy of being 20 years old. And, you know, I still get correspondence from people. I still get random letters in the mail, like snail mail, ah lots of messenger messages, Instagram, wherever people can contact me.
00:31:26
Speaker
ah me still to this day saying that the movie you know was impactful to them, that the theme of Keep Moving Forward was was very beneficial to them in their lives when they were struggling or or whatever they were going through.
00:31:41
Speaker
And I mean, that's that's I think why... anyone that is an artist or a storyteller creative in any way that's why we do what we do right we do it or this a podcast uh any of it we're communicating we're we're communicating with an audience we want to share ideas with other people we want to bring our points of view to other people tell stories whether it's a movie whether it's an anecdote on a on a youtube video whatever it is It's all communication. It's all connecting with an audience.
00:32:16
Speaker
So the great thing, what we didn't have back then for many, for quite some time was we didn't have the internet and we didn't have these ways for people to get in touch with us. So all we had was, and we talked about, the a i' we're talking about this a lot this year with Groove because it's ah it's the 25th anniversary and been doing some some different like ah panels and stuff like that with some of the other, my other friends.
00:32:41
Speaker
All you had were the critic reviews and the box office numbers. And maybe you had a friend that was like, oh, my kid saw that movie or whatever. um But you didn't have any other way to know how people responded to the movie. And if for whatever reason it didn't connect at the time, if it didn't do well at the box office for whatever reason, if critics were sort of lukewarm or not even nice at all to the movie, you sort of fit thought, well,
00:33:08
Speaker
there goes that one that's never going to be remembered that was i'm happy i worked on it i'm really proud of it i had a great time doing it but i guess nobody's going to remember that thing cut to all these years later people are still remembering these movies and and you know they be in the case of groove like the pop culture significance of significance i put in quotes because i'm not saying it's like somehow significant to our human experience but um other than entertainment but just like the memes and and now disney's actually owning it and making merchandise for you know about the movie for the movie it's so great to see these things last um
00:33:53
Speaker
And again, that's why we do it. we we We do it to connect. We do it to to to connect with people and um have that shared shared experience. And I think you're seeing a lot of a resurgence of movies like, well, we have the Goofy movie, of course. yeah that I'm like, that's my favorite movie, of course. but um But Impersonal Groove is another one where, and you're absolutely right, back in those days, it was like, well, a credit a critic said this. Well, that, but a critic...
00:34:22
Speaker
isn't the, you know, they don't represent the masses. So a lot of us love the Emperor's New Groove, you who or whatever it was, or or whatever movie, Goofy Movie got critic-bombed a little bit. But I saw that like two three times in the theater. I've loved to ever, so you know, Love that movie. And, and so what I think we're seeing a lot of, especially millennials, people made, you know, born and or and and raised in the nineties going, I want to go back and watch these movies I loved. And, you know, not that there's not good things now, but.
Disney's Nostalgia and Accessibility
00:34:57
Speaker
But, you know, a movie like Emperor's New Groove, and it is so easily accessible where it's not like you have to wait for the Disney vault to open to where, you know, you have to wait for this. But no, you just get them and you can share them and watch them. And Disney Plus is a big, I think, factor in this, too, because you just go on there and watch whatever you want. And it's sort of, I think, rekindles a lot of ah nostalgia and and love for Disney. for movies you know i wouldn't call them niche movies but they're they certainly weren't the bit at the time you know a movie like a goofy movie or like emperor's new groove or something they they weren't pushed to the same degree that others were but boy you know they've they've come back with a lot of heart and and because they're good movies they're good that's that helps too
00:35:45
Speaker
And I think it also, they they benefited from home video being, you know, such a big deal through the nineties and the two early two thousands. um And so people that grew up, maybe they didn't see at the theater for whatever reason, but they saw it on home video or maybe Disney channel or something like that. And so then that created that real interest. And now,
00:36:10
Speaker
that now that generation has kids and now that generation has families and you're passing those on to other people and yeah the other one i include in that group uh groove and goofy movie is nightmare before christmas yeah because back when it came out disney didn't even put the disney name on it they didn't because they're like what do we do with this thing that's right and now they can't own it hard they can't own it Enough. I saw, like Jeff, with Goofy Movie, three times in the movie theaters as a 9, 10-year-old kid, and I thought it was the most amazing thing in the world. And then to find out that Disney did it all these years later when I'm strolling through the park and they have Nightmare stuff, you know intermingle with Mansion stuff, I'm like, wow, this is crazy. And they even then they didn't have the Disney name on it. wasn't up until probably...
00:36:58
Speaker
10 years ago that they wrote the Disney name on it. And to Jeff's point, it's just like movies are cyclical within cinema and ah animation. Like there's this period of time where you don't get movies that are good within Disney. Like you had the 80s with the dark period of like, they're great movies, but they weren't talked about. The critics didn't love them, but but we loved them.
00:37:19
Speaker
The same with these movies. We all loved them. Yeah. I have another question for you about Meet the Robinsons. um Were you able to intertwine anything with the adoption theme, being that you were adopted? Were you able to any personal experience or or feelings or reflections in that movie?
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah, they were kind the the keep moving forward theme kind of came from two sources. The original writer who had wrote written the first script, um he and I were sitting down and just sort of talking about his script and where we could go with it. And we were swapping stories about adoption. Now, he was not adopted, but he had a friend who was adopted. And she had some, lots of emotional problems and thought, I'm going to find my birth mother and that's going to solve all my problems. And unfortunately it made things worse. It was not one of the happy moments of of reconnection. So there was that story. And then my story was ever since I can remember, my parents told me that I was adopted.
00:38:23
Speaker
So I knew I've known my whole life. And they were always very supportive and said, when you become an adult and as a kid, they put the the age 18, when you become 18, you can, if you would like to, you can go find your, who your birth parents are and we will support you in that endeavor. So as a kid, it was kind of like this magic age, someday i'm going to do that. And there was no question in my mind that I was going to do that. And then years pass and I kind of realize,
00:38:49
Speaker
Oh, I'm 23. I was right past 18 and I haven't even thought about that because i was fortunate to be adopted into a wonderful, loving, supportive family. I did not want for that. I was getting married. I was starting my own family, my career. um i had a finding out who my birth parents were.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yes, the curiosity is always going to be there, but it really... it would it may not It might may not have changed anything and potentially could ah could make things worse, could make things not so great, like this other example.
Personal Themes in 'Meet the Robinsons'
00:39:31
Speaker
um So that kind of us sharing those stories started getting you know getting us into that place of... of
00:39:43
Speaker
do you need focusing just that idea of focusing on the the past versus looking to the future. And as much as we sometimes can take, um solace in the past, uh, oftentimes it's, it's not where you need to be focusing, focus on the future and his friend, for example, the writer's friend, you know,
00:40:06
Speaker
unfortunately she she thought she was going to find her answers in the past she didn't um so anyways long story short uh all that was kind of in the soup that we were that we were cooking up and uh and that kind of led to the keep moving forward theme and the original script did not have as much of the adoption stuff in it it was a little bit of beginning kind of a little bit at the end and so i just wanted to make sure that was the emotional through line throughout that that was really Lewis's, um, uh, his drive was to reconnect with his past. And certainly i i as I said, i was as a kid, I was definitely curious about where I came from, who gave me, it who, who was my birth parents? Why did they give me up? All those questions that I thought little Lewis needs to be asking these questions in the movie. Cause that feels, that felt very real to me and I could relate to that. um So I felt very much akin to to this guy, to this little 12-year-old kid.
00:41:09
Speaker
Is that a message that you still in your own life? Because I i hear you talk about... they Thank you for sharing your story, by the way. that's Oh, yeah. Thanks for listening. Yeah, my pleasure. It's wonderful. and But I think that message, keep moving forward. when you you know it's It's one of those... ah Well, it really is. Even...
00:41:29
Speaker
I think in my own life, I know we have listeners that probably are in not you know whatever place they're in in their lives. That's a message that's sometimes it's a refreshing message. Like you don't have to be damned to the past, you know, whatever that is. You don't have to be a shackle to you. You have the freedom to move forward. And ah I don't know how to how does do you have ma um i I could think of a a hundred different ways right now in my own life now, where I'm like, gosh, I need that message, you know, but, but what about you now, you know, moving forward, is that a message that you still sort of hold onto in your day-to-day life or just maybe it's in your career or whatever it is now, you know?
00:42:13
Speaker
Yeah. I, um, it's funny that maybe this happened, maybe this is just kind of how things go, but I guess maybe we tell the stories, that have themes that we need to learn ourselves as much as everyone else does. Because I'm really bad. preach to yourself, you know, as they say. I'm really bad at ah at holding on to things and reliving things. and And a lot of times in my in my experience, it's... it's
00:42:46
Speaker
baggage from from disney um uh uh i get really caught up in that sometimes and all those things that i that person did this and that person did that i didn't get that opportunity and why didn't that happen and and then i sort of have to give myself a little smack on the cheek and say hey you're the dude that made this movie that's moving forward you gotta listen to your own stinking movie yeah uh because you're a hypocrite if you don't um but i think if it's i think it's such a human thing i think it is and and i think it it hits us all in different ways different aspects of our lives but i think it's
00:43:29
Speaker
It's so human to to look backwards and regret and beat yourself up about mistakes and, you know, whole grudges, all that kind of stuff.
00:43:44
Speaker
And i that definitely can, unfortunately, I struggle with that as well. Yeah, same here. you're Well, thank you. Yes. I think one of the things, you know, and you keep bringing this up,
00:43:59
Speaker
It kind of reminds me of, you know, when Jeff brought up about
Critics vs. Public: Film Reception Discussion
00:44:04
Speaker
critics and things like that. And, you know, we're talking about the movies, um their success rate and things like that. There was a movie, The Greatest Showman. I remember when it first came out and every all the critics said it was the worst. No one's seen it.
00:44:19
Speaker
My wife, I think, saw it nine times in the theater. and Me too. i And i and i and it I've said this numerous times on this podcast, because i think there's a big disservice with certain Disney movies that I think if they were brought out today, i think their outcome would be a lot different.
00:44:41
Speaker
Perfect example would be Brother Bear, because... I don't understand how successful Tarzan can be with Phil Collins doing the music and their brother bear with Phil Collins doing the music. And you have the blind boys of Alabama and people like that doing songs on there, how it,
00:44:59
Speaker
It just doesn't resonate. And and you're 100% right by saying, you know, when you don't have the quote unquote social media at the time and you don't have all you're going off of ah people saying and word of mouth. I mean, you're you're basically there.
00:45:16
Speaker
um There's a time where you look at it and say, OK, this is something good. it may not It may not look great right now. People may not love it, but they're going to love it in the future.
00:45:31
Speaker
Perfect example, Emperor's New
Casting in Disney Films
00:45:33
Speaker
Groove. You hit it right on the head because Patrick Warburton and Eartha Kitt were money. David Spade was money. there's not you know It's almost like eddie Eddie Murphy when he did Mooshu. There are certain people who do characters that bring it out that help. And, and this, and again, it's unfortunate because the certain time when they came out, you can look at, also look at chicken little and um home sweet home, and no home on the range, home on the range and how, you know, you have powerful at actors and actresses in them to do, to bring out the movie. So my question is, is um in the movies that you worked on, how did you pick your actors and actresses to do your, your, ah the parts? Yeah.
00:46:23
Speaker
uh well the good news is on the one hand we have a casting department at disney so they have all sorts of great ideas for um potential actors that are that want to do disney that are uh or maybe they didn't because a lot of actors do come and say you know or they tell their agents hey keep me in mind for Disney movies. So there's, ah there they definitely keep a list of folks that are like very Disney friendly.
00:46:52
Speaker
Um, but then also sometimes just, they can come up with some unexpected names that you think, Oh, that's a little different, but I never would have thought of that person, but wow, what an interesting juxtaposition of that actor and that character. Um, for me personally, i what I like is, ah And not saying this is exclusive. It's not like every every actor has to be have this experience. But I think people that have had experience on the stage um and with with maybe sketch comedy or improv or even you know stand-up comedians, I think are also really great because they can think on their feet. um
00:47:29
Speaker
I find that it's really helpful to be able to have ah actors come in and that can do what we have on the page, but then can also just play ah that, that, that can really own the character themselves um and not just be reading.
00:47:47
Speaker
and there's nothing there's nothing wrong with that you know yeah we need we we'd like to get takes as written but then okay play with it what if it's something else or can you what here's this line that we wrote and we've recorded a few times but play with it can is there something else or um oftentimes I'll be in the booth with the actors and I'll be reading against them uh just for the so they have somebody to play off of and there are have been some times where certain actors, i can I can throw out something totally different and they'll respond to it. And then, you know, I can kind of direct them off the page just by me reading against them. So I think that
00:48:28
Speaker
ability to improvise and really inhabit the character to where they are speaking lines that weren't even written for the character, but they're coming out of their mouths and they are being the character. I like to find those kind of actors. And I've been really fortunate to to have some... I haven't worked with anybody who's been difficult, who's been obnoxious, who's been a diva.
00:48:55
Speaker
I've been so fortunate with the folks that i've I've gotten to work with and everybody just wants to come in and play, you know, that's and that's what's fun about it because we do do so many different takes. We have the luxury of just, you know, let's try it again, let's try it again, let's try it again, let's try it again. We're not worrying about losing our light or, you know, we're going kicked out of this location or any of that stuff. So we can just do that and get a ton of different coverage, ah vocal coverage, and um to take back to the editing room. um So everybody's been really wonderful.
00:49:31
Speaker
I can only imagine what it's like with certain actors. Like I heard Barry mentioned David Spade or Patrick Warburton. Those guys, you can pretty much give them anything, say play. But there are other actors you maybe have to direct. What has it been like being the um the voice director on Monsters at Work?
Directing Voice Actors and Accidental Voice Acting
00:49:50
Speaker
Because that's a wonderful voice cast all in itself and all of those people, and especially ah the great Henry Winkler. He's such a good person to be around, good nature. I bet that just makes that cast ah that much easier to work with just his nature being there.
00:50:05
Speaker
but What has that experience been like just being a supervising director with all of that that young cast as as well as some older voice actors? Yeah, well, I won't lie. I always get a little, i definitely get the butterflies before every recording session and certainly working with people like Henry Winkler, Billy Crystal, John Goodman, those are some big names.
00:50:25
Speaker
And so I have to... calm my nerves uh and not get too uh flustered or any of that stuff or over speak that sometimes that's my problem is like i'll just keep talking and talking and talking talking it's like no shut up you say it once and let them do it and then react to um uh But they were wonderful. They were all great. um In my experience, they, you know, obviously somebody like Billy Crystal coming in, he's done Mike Wazowski for quite a while, so he knows this character, so you don't really have to tell him. All you have to do is give him, here's the situation. um, um you know, here's your objective in the scene and then he'll do it. And then you can kind of just say want to try it again? you want to play with it a little bit? You want to sometimes give him little adjustments, but you really don't need to do much of anything. You just kind of have to get out of his way and let him do his thing. Cause he knows that character. Um, uh,
00:51:31
Speaker
And you know Henry Winkler, his character was new ah to the franchise. he'd been He'd been recording that character for a while when I came on the show of Monsters at Work for season one.
00:51:43
Speaker
um ah So he'd already kind of have ah had a rhythm and ah and a sound that he was doing. But just super lovely and would just try any version, choice. He would do it 10 times if you asked him to, not that we ever would, but um he was just so wonderful. Everyone that I've i worked with on that show actor-wise amazing.
00:52:08
Speaker
Super excited to be part of that franchise, that world, Monsters Inc. world. um And again, they just they showed up to to play, to have fun, um to to discover, to iterate, to try something new, to do something weird to do something that doesn't work, but Hey, good news is we don't have to use it. we just, we'll try something else.
00:52:35
Speaker
Um, you've done, you've done voices, right? Yeah. I've done some voices. You've done some voices. Yeah. How do you enjoy voice acting? Is that something you enjoy doing? Yeah, it's fun. Uh, uh, it depends on the, depends on what it is. Yeah. Well, not really. I, no, I do love it. I, I, I don't, I,
00:52:56
Speaker
my answer is weird only because I'm sort of i came to it by accident because a lot of my voices i always do the temp voices for lot of these characters and then they ended up getting kept in the movie oh cool so the I did not uh seek out being a voice actor yeah I like doing voices it's fun to do but um uh I would not would not like continue to pursue that as a as a career but it's super fun to get to do and how cool is it probably to be like oh man that's me up there like you hear you hear your voice and it's put to animation i could only imagine you know we are probably yeah but probably really cool i don't know yeah ah it is and well and you know you ah you all know as people that listen to your own voices
00:53:41
Speaker
ah you know played back. Sometimes that's very difficult to do. Certainly get used to your own voice really quick. Especially if you're directing a movie that you're doing the voice on because you're hearing it day day out over and over and over again and yeah so i do amateur voice stuff so that's why i'm always like cool yeah about like oh my gosh i just love hearing these stories there's it' so much fun so yeah yeah it's fun um all that stuff i think for me it goes back to my listening to my disney records my disney story records in my room when i was a kid
00:54:14
Speaker
And just imitating those voices. So I always got very fascinated with just voice actors and voice acting. and um yeah really cool. and My ah my great great cousin was Pat Buttram.
00:54:27
Speaker
Gravel Sheriff of Mount Lamb. Are you serious? Yeah, so I always grew up just... That was my that was my my gateway drug and into voice acting. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he was a great cousin. You know, my family, some of them knew him. and I never met him, you know, but but I hear everybody that has met him. They always got... They either do a... Pat, butchum voice, or they or they'll do some sort of, like, they always got some story, and so we me watching Robin Hood, it was always, and then I got into Goofy's, like, it went, like, Rable Sheriff to hold Gorge up and down and Goofy, and, you know, so I don't know. That's good. I love, I love, I just love voice acting. It's just so much fun, and, yeah and you know, i I think, so I'm i'm always, yeah, um,
00:55:08
Speaker
That's neat. That's so amazing that you've gotten to work with so many, you know, talented voice actors and been able to, to be part of that world. Even if it's just, that's just, that's wonderful. I always say, if I just have, even if it's just a a single line in a video game, then I can die a happy person, you know, something like that, but. Yes, it will happen. It will happen. Oh, cool. Cool. Cool. Excellent.
00:55:32
Speaker
Well, and it's funny because, um you know, seeing the movies that you've done, it's like my it's like me looking at my Mount Rushmore of Disney movies. Because Wreck-It Ralph, I mean, Bolts, Emperor's New Groove, Brother Bear, Meet the Robinsons, that's a Saturday afternoon right there watching all that.
00:55:54
Speaker
So, um you know, working with like Miley Cyrus and John Travolta, you know, you were talking about different... voices and things like that and then you get ah you know working on frozen and you get all the great people who worked out with that idina menzel and menel and think people like that so when when when you're directing certain movies and that and you talked about you know you have a great casting agency and all that like that do you vision people who who you would like to see in certain characters
00:56:27
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes I do. ah um There are times where I'll make my own kind of little list on the side when we, you know, while we're developing the story before we we get before we're casting, but I'll just kind of keep an eye open on the side just to think, okay, I really like this actor and they might slot in here really nicely or this actor, this actor, this actor.
00:56:51
Speaker
um And then I'll suggest those. sometimes And sometimes it sometimes it sticks. When I did Winnie the Pooh, the 2011 Winnie the Pooh, my wife was getting was really into watching the Craig Ferguson show, the late night is his light night show. And so he, she, she loved it. So she got me into watching it. And I was like, man, Craig Ferguson is hilarious. It would be great to have him do something. And then we're like, oh, what if he's owl? So then we ended up casting him as owl because my wife loved ah his show and turned me on to it. So that was one of my suggestions. um
00:57:27
Speaker
So little things like that. Sometimes it, sometimes they don't work out and that's totally fine. um But yeah, always keeping an ear open for who could be some potential candidates.
00:57:40
Speaker
Pooh Bear 2011. love that movie. Do you mind yourself? Yeah, it's a good movie. It's a really good movie. I'm like, oh, I actually watched it, I think, about a month ago. I got to watch Meet the Robinsons. That one I haven't watched in, gosh, probably a couple years. So I'm like, I'm watching that right after this. I hope it still holds up. I'm sure it will.
00:58:02
Speaker
On the acting aspect of it and finding voice actors, do you find yourself, because I find myself watching you know shows and stuff, or writing, do you find yourself as you're watching a show and you see an actor and you you have a thought or a process in your head, like you just said, writing in notes, you find yourself like, I want that person, like you said, wife, Craig Ferguson. Do you find yourself more often now doing that than ah as opposed before ah the Craig first, yeah casting Craig into Al?
00:58:29
Speaker
I did it, I was doing that kind of for a while. ah We used to, one of the actors on in Meet the Robinsons is Nicole Sullivan, if you're familiar with her. She was on MADtv and she's done tons of stuff.
00:58:42
Speaker
But we were watching MADtv at the time and I remember, this was before i even got the the gig Meet the Robinsons, but I just thought she's so funny and she would be such a great animation voice. And so it just kind of logged her away. And then she made it on my list for um that particular character. we had other people as well and we auditioned a bunch of people, um but she was the one that kind of stuck out. So i i for some weird reason, I've just always thought that, oh, that person would be a great,
00:59:13
Speaker
animation voice. Um, and I still kind of do, I do that too. And it's like, it'll be people in real life too. It's so funny. I'll be at the store. be like, what's that voice? And then I'll think, boy, that person could really be a character. Cause you know, some people don't realize how unique or, uh, just wonderful their voices are. And, it's funny. It's, you know, and How neat is it to like watch something on TV and go that person would be good. I love that voice. That would be a perfect for my, my whatever project is, is upcoming. But, but yeah, it's it's funny how I'll, or I'll hear just a, ah just a good voice. It'll be, like I said, in the supermarket or just sitting next to someone at a restaurant yeah and my head will turn and I'll, I'll think, wow, you got a really great voice. And yeah but it's only when you're in this world sort of, of, you know, where you kind of have that, that ear tuned and yeah it's, um, it's kind of, ah it's kind of cool.
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
01:00:15
Speaker
I, I think one of the things is that, um, you know, depending on who does the voices, because, you know, you can look at some of the, the older movies and how they, how they use Hollywood starlets and things like that doing, um,
01:00:32
Speaker
So is it crucial is it crucial for the the success to have power names behind behind that doing the characters? other Other than having you know a great story, you know great effects, things like that.
01:00:49
Speaker
So is it is it really important to have like a power name behind it to boost ah viewers? It certainly helps. And in this day and age of... of having to kind of yell over the noise of all the other stuff that's going on out there. If you can have a a name of someone that can that that kens shout over the crowd and kind of get people's attention, that's very helpful. um But sometimes the big names are great on camera, but they're not great voice actors. So you also have to be able to find the right that right balance. Sometimes they are Sometimes you get...
01:01:30
Speaker
you get really big names like, ah ah I don't know, John C. Reilly. Reggie Ralph a good example. All that casting I thought was just spot on. And all those actors had ah big names, Jane Lynch and and Sarah Silverman and John C. Reilly.
01:01:49
Speaker
And they could they could help promote the movie. And they were also great voice actors and they were perfectly cast for their characters. um Other times...
01:02:02
Speaker
Sometimes you just have to pick the right actor and sometimes that's not a big name and not anybody who's going to help publicize the movie or, It's the right thing for the movie. and And Disney, I think, has the advantage that, well, certainly something like Pixar and now DreamWorks, there there is a brand. They have a name now that kind of, yes, it's nice to have actors that can that can give their movies some cachet, but their brand speaks to the audience. So if it says a Pixar movie, people go, oh, that's Pixar.
01:02:35
Speaker
and they're not too worried about who is in the movie they just they're pixar means the movie's going to be good and i'm going to enjoy it um and so that way you can sort of the audience can just settle into the movie and not be worrying about oh that's that's so-and-so and that's tom cruise and that's oh yeah there's tom hanks doing that voice and there's that and that well tom hanks is a good example of a huge name who's actually really good at it um um So I think it, it depends on your situation, where are you making your movie?
01:03:08
Speaker
Um, uh, how much attention, you're going to need to get to your film and also just finding the right people for your characters. And sometimes you can get an actor that does all three of those things.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yeah. um One last question before we want to hear about the the book that you have as well. But my last question, is be a thinking question. So any of the movies that you have directed, you have the opportunity to put one back in the theater today.
Steve's Insights on Re-releasing Films
01:03:45
Speaker
What movie is it and why? That's a good question. Mm-hmm. uh i mean i would guess it would be meet the robinson's even though that's fair i can't really watch i can't i can't watch it i have trouble watching any of those movies and so uh you know it's certainly from a technical standpoint uh cg animation has far surpassed what we were able to do back in 2005 and 6.
01:04:16
Speaker
So there's a lot of things I would want to do differently for the movie, and it would make me cringe knowing that it was in the theater. But I'm really proud of it. You should be proud of it. I mean, it's a great movie. Hey, I think it holds up. I mean, like, you know, like I said, a couple months ago. You have dinosaur. Come on. Can't go wrong with dinosaurs. Can't go wrong them.
01:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. ah You know, and and it's very special to me for so many reasons. So I think that will always be the, well, I won't say always because who knows what's coming down the line in the future.
01:04:48
Speaker
ah But that at the moment, that that's the one that's really the closest to my heart. So cool. All right. Why don't you go ahead and and tell us about the book you've written?
Steve's Book on Disney's Transition Era
01:04:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:59
Speaker
I got to hear about this book. Yeah, so I did this book. it was published last year by the Old Mill Press, and the book is called Disney In Between, colon, 1966 to 1986, The Lost Years.
01:05:13
Speaker
And it's exactly that. It's about Disney Studios from um Walt's death in 66 to a few years into the Eisner-Katzenberg takeover 1986. it's a nice round years.
01:05:28
Speaker
um and it's really about it's about change it's about disruption it's about um what happens when ah ah movie studio that was founded on forward thinking and innovation um loses their their guiding light and kind of lose sense of some of those core principles and struggles and uh loses their identity a bit has to redefine themselves in ah in ah in a world without Walt.
01:05:59
Speaker
Wow. So it's it's ah or you know some people often refer to that time as the Dark Ages at the Disney Studios as well. um ah Because again, it's the unsexy time in Disney history. It's ah lots of interesting experiments, but lots of failures as well. Movies that still, hey, we talked about, you know, you talked about The Greatest Showman, you're you know, wife watching it a bunch of times.
01:06:26
Speaker
I still, I love, look, at i' I'm wearing a shirt about that's the black hole in one of the movies during that time. I love those movies because I grew up with those movies. So that's the main reason why I wanted to write this book is because I love that stuff. So I wanted to talk to the filmmakers and dig into those stories and find out more about it. But it's also a very undocumented time in history, in Disney history. It's usually skipped over, um,
01:06:52
Speaker
to get to the you know the renaissance as fast as possible after Walt passes away you know there's some movies that come out and then there's Little Mermaid and then there's you know all this other stuff But there's such a fascinating story in this 20-year period of how the studio had to redefine itself and kind of how they got stuck in the past, but also eventually finally did figure out how to move forward without Walt and with the people at the helm.
01:07:28
Speaker
book. Well, yeah, and and you look at it and because during... i knew i saw you looking right now. I bought the book. I was like, um I gotta buy it. You sold me. i will not i mean, no, it's so fascinating. And and and wow. here's...
01:07:45
Speaker
it it Number one, it aligns with the forward thinking. Yes. you know sort of But this is... i like... What do you call it? Not deconstruction. It's like... What do you call it? Diagnostic. know A book that's diagnostic that looks back and says, wow, this is what happened. This is why it happened. Those books are really fascinating to me. And ah this is looks like... This is right up my alley because i like I like... I like history, but I like to know why. Why did this stuff happen? What happened? And then not just why, but then not why as far as like, well, this person was in and then this person was out and Walt died, but it's like, well, the vision part of it. right
01:08:30
Speaker
When you don't have that forward thinking mentality, well, that it can explain a lot. So I'm i'm excited. um of cool let's see and and And I think another big thing is there was a lot of a good movies during that time, too. oh yeah I mean, I could keep thinking. Well, I mean, Robin Hood. I mean, I got it. Yeah.
01:08:48
Speaker
and and And it's sad because. You know, you had the Billy Joel, Oliver and Company during that time too. And it's like, and it's like, there's a lot. It's just like here, like you said, it was like force fed. It was like here, enjoy it. Then you get the Renaissance. And then again, it happens again. You get, ah you know treasure Treasure Planet, you get movies like that that come again, and then they're like, wait a minute, we're going the wrong way again. We need to reboot it. and And as I always say on here, these are the lost movies. These are movies people worked hard on. They put their lives on and did things like that, which they get no recognition to it because because either your cult classic movie, for example, Emperor's New Groove,
01:09:33
Speaker
you know where people get together and watch it or they talk about it, but it's not push. I mean, when's the last time you've seen an Empress New Groove anything at any of the parks? Or a Treasure Planet? Or Oliver and Company? Unless you have a bizarre day where they ah let a lot of characters out or people like that other than that they're not in the parks and these are forgotten movies that unfortunately you know most of people say let's just shovel in a hole and i mean because if it's not working with modern movies it really doesn't matter right yeah
01:10:13
Speaker
I can second that too. I can back because Barry took the words right out of my mouth. This, this, you picked a great subject matter because that is a period where the and animation was great. It was grittier. It was a much grittier time in Disney. that The colors went away from bright and airy and princess this and snow white. And you had all these bright, vibrant colors. You went to darker, more contextual ideas.
01:10:34
Speaker
I mean, one movie that is never talked about, and it wasn't even an animation movie was the mini, well, it was animation, but the original mini adventures of Winnie the Pooh. Mm-hmm. Classic, great, done movie.
01:10:45
Speaker
Wonderful, but never talked about. Mm-hmm. And hearing a story about from one of their writers or their directors is something that truly draws me in because it it dives into like what Barry has hit on and what you've hit on and what Jeff has hit on. The idea of so much animation has been forgotten about in that time. And then we hit a cyclical period of kind of when you came in.
01:11:07
Speaker
You came in at the tail end of that cyclical end of the second – I want to call it the second Dark Ages when they all these great movies were coming out, different grittiness and a different – appeal to a different you know mass of people and what was it about this the book um subject matter that drew you to write it was it your experience within your own dark period in disney or was it just something that truly drew you because disney like you said was always truly forward thinking and without a leader a true leader you know they faced a hostile takeover they faced a lot of different things and that's a lot of subject matter but then you had eyes and um
01:11:47
Speaker
You said you had Eisner leave, and then you had a a secondary following. So what kind of drew you to this subject matter? Was it your own story? Was it everything in between? Yeah, it was well, number one, my fandom, my nerdy fandom for that. Number two, the the I felt like the stories had to be told. um ah But number three, ah
01:12:13
Speaker
it's a very... it's a it's such a back to the universal human experience we were talking about a while ago uh these times of transition these liminal times these times of in-betweenness is such a part of the human experience and we go through it in our lives but you can also see it on a large scale i think our our i think covid was a disruptor and i think i don't think our world has settled at all since i think the world our culture everything is still in a big state of of transition of betweenness um um old ways fading
01:12:59
Speaker
new ways yet to be born. Maybe we see glimmers of them on the horizon, but they have not been they have not taken hold yet. So we're in this bit of a dark time, this gray period. this ah you know and And so as I was researching this, I just thought and trying to figure out what story I wanted to tell. All those themes started coming, like just presenting themselves to me. And I realized, gosh, this is such a time. Because I actually started writing the manuscript during COVID. So that was all part of the soup of what I was living. we were all living at the time, but then what I was, had been researching and and interviewing people about. And I just thought this is such a, this is a metaphor for just the human experience. And it happened to be at the Disney studios.
01:13:51
Speaker
but everything from the disruption to the to the confusion to the resistance to change to finally having to embrace the change and then learning how to move forward that's just all part of our every aspect of of life of of just our human experience changes is the most art natural thing.
01:14:17
Speaker
Art imitates life is the easiest way to put it in art shapes. there So it it's so love that that actual answer to that. I mean, that's wonderful. that That's cool.
01:14:28
Speaker
And you inspired me to want to like, read it and write a documentary about it for whatever reason. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it makes great documentary material to emphasize. Would that basically be called the the Disney COVID period from the 66th? That'd be great.
01:14:44
Speaker
It just seems like... It just seems like...
Challenges of Maintaining Disney's Legacy
01:14:48
Speaker
the the more you look at it the more nobody cared about it. And it was just like, it's it's like a bunch of like four or five-year-olds when they get to kindergarten the first day, they they don't know what to do. And they're just walking around and they're just like, what do I do? And teacher's like, calm down, calm down. And, and you know, it takes them a couple weeks. Well, for them, it took decades just ah to to see that there's structure. And then there's, you know, there's a history that,
01:15:17
Speaker
you know there's a history that you can fall on, but nobody wants to fall on it because it's easier to make their own ways and say, you know what, Walt's gone, let's do it this way, because you know what, this way is probably better, which it isn't. So looking looking at things like that was, um you know, during that time,
01:15:41
Speaker
it To me, it um it almost feels like everyone was like looking at you know covering their own backs, trying to say, okay, I'm here. It's like playing Survivor.
01:15:55
Speaker
i just I don't want my torch to burn out, so i'm going to you know I'll fall in line. You tell me what to do. But if you don't tell me what to I'm to do what I want on my own. Yeah.
01:16:07
Speaker
Well, and certainly for the kind of the first half of that 20 years, um, that everyone was just terrified to be the person that quote unquote tarnished that Walt's legacy.
01:16:22
Speaker
Um, and i in the, in a lot of ways I have enormous empathy for them because I don't know if I would want to have to be the person that, that,
01:16:34
Speaker
foots on Walt's shoes every day and goes into work and tries to keep that. I mean, what a what a difficult task. It's very easy in retrospect to look at the the leadership from sort of the late 60s into the 70s and go, they you know they didn't do anything different. They just made carbon copy, like Xeroxes of Xeroxes of Xeroxes of what Walt did. And they didn't innovate. They didn't do anything new.
01:17:01
Speaker
On the other hand, I go, i don't, I wouldn't have been afraid to do anything new. i don't know if I would want it to go in and like be the one to say, okay, we're going to do something totally, totally different and then fall on my face and be the, be looked at, be history's example of the the person that, that ruined Walt Disney's legacy. Um, that's what they were facing at the time. So,
01:17:25
Speaker
So yeah, i I have empathy for that. And um you know they did what they thought was right. And it actually took, we talk about a lot in the book, is that it took people from the outside that weren't steeped in the Walt's ways or that did not work with Walt or or was it were were ah sort of grown by Walt. It took people from the outside to come in and go, okay, we don't have that, we don't have that, um We're not bound to that because we didn't know Walt.
01:17:58
Speaker
We know his work, ah but we didn't know him. And we were we weren't part of this process. We know how much we love it and we know what it means to us. And now we want to do it in our way.
01:18:10
Speaker
and what we think is the right way for a new generation. And then that's when real change could happen. But it was that, again, of ah the the age-old struggle of the old guard and the new guard, the old folk the older generations and the new kids that are coming in that want to change everything. And nothing is sacred. They just want to blow everything up, that that enthusiasm of and passion of youth.
01:18:38
Speaker
And that conflict, that's at the heart of the this whole story of this book was in both live action and animation um was that generational conflict.
01:18:51
Speaker
You know, it's funny you say that because Jeff says this all the time and he always says story shapes life. And i'm telling you I'm telling you right now. I think the biggest getaway everyone has at Disney is when they say, this is what Walt would have wanted.
01:19:10
Speaker
Or they could say, Walt wanted it this way. Or they would say, you know, if Walt was here, Walt would blah, blah. And I think, you know, it comes down to...
01:19:23
Speaker
Legacy is one thing, but tarnishing someone else's legacy to make yours a lot better, that's not a good thing. And that's not a good ah ah visual for the common people who look at it and say, okay, is this how Walt really would have wanted it this way? Or is this how you're perceiving this is how Walt wanted it? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And and as I'm not the first person to point out, you know, using the example of computer animation, um that was the the leadership at the time was like, oh, Disney doesn't do computers. we We're hammer and nails. We're pencil and paper. We don't do that stuff. Back in the sort of the first Tron era is what I mean, like the early Yeah.
01:20:09
Speaker
um But so many people say, Walt would have gone bananas for that because it's new. It's a new technology. He would have said, what can, how can I use this? How can I embrace this and make it work for me?
01:20:23
Speaker
He was not afraid of new technologies and he wasn't afraid to, to bend them to his will, and, and make great things out of them. So, um, We can't say what Walt would have done.
01:20:36
Speaker
we People assume he wouldn't have liked computer animation, but I bet he would have. And who knows? And and um unfortunately,
01:20:47
Speaker
his time done. And so it's, it has, you have to move forward and you have to say, yes, let's, let's be, let's be true to the type of entertainment that is Disney and the qualities and the fundamentals of Disney entertainment.
01:21:08
Speaker
But how can we evolve? How can it evolve? How can we make it for new generations, for tell stories in different ways, in contemporary ways with new technologies?
01:21:19
Speaker
um Because time keeps moving and you've got to keep up with it.
Storytelling and Technology in Animation
01:21:26
Speaker
I don't know, I think you hit it on the nail because it's like, you know, I think I'm 40, so I'm the first stage of life. You know, you you're sort of that person, you know, you graduate from whatever you want to. You know, you're sort of a bull in a China shop. You just want to make a difference and an impact. and But then, you know, you get a little older and you you start reflecting and and you think, you know, how do I build bridges to the past? And you start actually appreciating the past more. You know, I drive to work and I'm why i'm listening to 70s rock. now and i'm like i don't know why i mean i hit 40 now this is what i what i enjoy okay well but i think there's something you know to go backwards in time is something that is cant can be meaningful and you know i i think there's a lot that i think you're right i think there's always ways to move forward and whether it's and with an animation or cgi or whatever but you know i think about like ah
01:22:24
Speaker
You know i think it was like Howard Ashman who, who just, he just, somehow he just got it. He just got the, at the time during that period, he just, he got the, I want song and he knew how to connect with people. So there was something kind of transcendent about how his lyrics were and, uh, So I don't know. I think, i think, I think in the future, that's where we can grow. If there's anything, it's like, yeah, absolutely. Grow with, grow with, uh, CGI and technology, like do all that, but don't, but don't leave the, I want song or, and don't, you know, don't leave the heart behind because that's something that's really, really important to storytelling, you
01:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, we'll talk, you know, way back in the beginning of our conversation when we were talking about CalArts, when I was, the stuff, like those fundamentals of of cinema, of of of cinematic communication. All of those, those are the constants, those are all the things, those fundamentals of, like you said, of good storytelling, telling of of of stories with heart of stories about him the human experience all those things those are the constants those are the vitals the vitals yeah yeah and how you tell the story is what needs to evolve and grow and be challenged but you know the human experience humans have not changed right human nature is human nature
01:23:50
Speaker
So keeping that at the core of everything you do, that's what keeps things universal and and keeps things timeless. yeah But then again, how you tell it is what is what changes.
01:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, well said, well said. Thank you. Thank you. Well, we definitely have to have you back on again, Steve, because we haven't even talked about your non-Disney movies and things like
Podcast Conclusion and Future Engagements
01:24:13
Speaker
that. we have too many. And I think the the key words of this whole podcast is moving forward because we talked about it during Meet the Robinsons, and we just talked about it now. Yeah.
01:24:27
Speaker
you know I think that's that's the key words taken away from here. But before we wrap up, Steve, why don't you tell our audience where they can find you on social media and your website?
01:24:38
Speaker
Yes. So ah my handle, if you will, is Steve Hat Guy. So it's like bowler hat guy, but with Steve instead, Steve Hat Guy.
01:24:48
Speaker
And that's me on Instagram, on on X, on Blue Sky. My website, personal website is stevehatguy.com. And then if you're interested in ordering a copy of Disney In Between, the book that I was mentioning, you can go to theoldmillpress.com.
01:25:11
Speaker
And there's a link that will take you to the Amazon site where you can order it on Amazon. um or you could just go to Amazon. I believe it's also still available on Barnes & Noble.com.
01:25:23
Speaker
Um, but the old mill press themselves are out of stock, which I guess is a good thing. Um, except if you want to buy, if you're trying to order the book, uh, Amazon is probably your best bet right now, uh, to order Disney in between.
01:25:38
Speaker
That's where I got it. Amazon. Thank you. Awesome. Well, Steve, it was pleasure talking to you tonight. And again, we have to have you come back on again and chat with us some more. but Great.
01:25:53
Speaker
um And again, thank you, co-hosts, for coming on and chatting along with me. And until next time, keep sharing the magic. sharing We have magical conversations that are crafted to your ears.
01:26:06
Speaker
The Edutainment Show, where education and entertainment collide each week. We bring you whimsical interviews with Disney guests who share their magical experiences and reveal how they are woven into the Disney fabric.
01:26:18
Speaker
Don't forget to hit that follow button to stay updated on our latest episodes. Spread the word and let your friends know they can tune in wherever they enjoy their favorite podcasts. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and X, formally Twitter, at atsharingthemagicpod.
01:26:35
Speaker
Until next time, keep sharing the magic and rattle the stars.