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E3 - Why You Should Build in Public | Dr. Chinmoy Hazarika (GentleDental.ai)
6 Plays4 days ago
Most founders think building the technology is the hard part. Dr. Chinmoy Hazarika learned that building something the world has never seen requires much more than great engineering.
After years as a practicing dentist, Chinmoy left clinical practice to found GentleDental.ai, a company building an AI-powered toothbrush designed to detect oral and systemic health issues while fitting seamlessly into people's daily routines.
In this conversation we talk about:
• How to build something that doesn't exist yet
• Knowing when to pivot—and when to trust your vision
• Why building in public attracts mentors and investors
• Finding believers instead of just hiring employees
If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe for more honest conversations with founders, builders, and operators about what it really takes to build something worthwhile.
Get future episodes, insights, and lessons from people who chose to build anyway:
https://goodbuildanyway.substack.com/
Connect with Dr. Chinmoy:
• GentleDental : https://gentledental.ai/
• LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchazarika/
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Transcript
Introduction to AI-powered toothbrush by Dr. Chinmoy Hatsurika
00:00:00
Speaker
And we're good to go. Okay. So today I'm talking with ah Dr. Chinmoy Hatsurika. He's the ah founder of Gentle Dental AI. And these guys are building sort of ah an AI-powered toothbrush that's aimed at connecting dental habits with broader health insights. And trying to turn something really routine into a way of catching health problems earlier and and improving preventative care, I guess.
00:00:27
Speaker
And that's really interesting because it's ah it's quite a difficult problem you're trying to solve. it's It's right at the intersection between there's a lot of behavior and there's some hardware, there's some clinical science, and there's a lot of trust that needs to be built as well. So I really wanted to start with
Challenges in linking oral health with overall health
00:00:46
Speaker
Dr. Chinmoy. When you first started doing this, what was way harder than you expect it to be?
00:00:53
Speaker
um i We still face issues ah as we move along this journey. It all started with so the first oh ah problem that we are trying to solve, which is to make people understand that oral health dental health and you know problems from the other parts of your body did not operate in silos it's part of the whole health care I mean like your mouth is not independent of your body right so that's the first thing that we had to be solving so so when we started this journey ah
00:01:35
Speaker
we faced issues with the idea adoption for our future users. So we started working backwards from there. And then ah at this point in time, we after undergoing a lot of R&D, we started ah making prototypes. And after the prototypes have been made, it's only now that what we are building is having a kind of acceptance among our intended users.
00:02:01
Speaker
So ah That's something, you know, when you're making something that is totally de novo, that is something, ah you know, it's like a category in itself. So it's it's those are like ah challenges that we are grappling with currently.
00:02:17
Speaker
Right, right. So basically just kind of convincing people that this is actually a- Yes. So, yeah. So, I mean, there are ways to solve for this.
Building trust through clinical validation
00:02:28
Speaker
For example, if we could find a way to build the trust layer ah using the existing network of dentists that I myself am a part of. So if we leverage that network and build the trust layer before we full-fledgedly introduce this into the broader market,
00:02:45
Speaker
So that is something that we are utilizing and we have steps in place to make this happen. Okay. And so using sort of your own network is is a big part of it.
00:02:59
Speaker
um Not the personal network, like the broader network of dentists. For example, ah just like how you have the ADA in the US, we have something like the IDA, the Indian Dental Association in India.
00:03:11
Speaker
So ah our clinical validation that is going to happen is going to happen through them. So ah that gives us a big... ah you know, a leap forward ah without wasting much time, without isolated ah pilots here and there. Right. So we'll just use the existing network of dentists to clinically validate, to ah go out in the market, to have a kind of validation before, ah you know, like before consumers get to use it, like from buying from the open market.
00:03:43
Speaker
Right. So, so basically let dentists test it out first. They'll have to test it out first. They'll have to give their own validation. ah And you know, understand, right, how social proof works. If dentists start believing in it, it is not much difficult for them to start prescribing to their patients. Once we gather that social proof at that layer, then we can definitely go out into making this into a consumer device.
00:04:11
Speaker
So but that loop is where we are currently working at. Very interesting. All right. Very cool. So right now you're working on building trust in the product basically. Yes, basically the trust layer is something that has to be inbuilt into our development run. I mean, the entire R&D process in in each layer, in each step, in each level we are introducing ah of you know, checks and balances so that the trust layer keeps on building before people use it as an, I mean, for for people like for the layperson, it looks like a novelty. It looks like a novelty that has been introduced in the market because the first question that comes to their mind is why didn't anyone think of this before?
00:04:56
Speaker
Right. So, So those kept that that kind of skepticism can only be solved if you know if there is a lot of validation in place moving forward.
00:05:07
Speaker
Right. Is that the main sort of skepticism you're meeting? with ah Why has this not been done before? What is this sort of the main skepticism? um ah Like our company is a startup, right?
00:05:18
Speaker
And the toothbrush market is very competitive and there is not much R&D happening. Like the only kind of toothbrushes that you get are either manual or electric ones. And even the electric ones are, you know, at best, they can help you brush better.
00:05:36
Speaker
right But to introduce a kind of ah ah you know ah a diagnostic feature into an existing form factor. Right. So this is ah like when you think about it, it looks like a no brainer.
00:05:49
Speaker
But then why is it so difficult to. ah execute and why hasn't the big shots in the market, they haven't done it already and why did we have to step in?
00:06:00
Speaker
So those are questions that need to be answered ah and we are working towards that. All right. Very interesting. and so So what is your sort of minimal viable minimumal viable product look
Product development: minimum viable product and design thinking
00:06:15
Speaker
like? what like what does that What's the minimal amount of features this is supposed to have?
00:06:20
Speaker
um First and foremost, it should not make you or turn away from your usual usual brushing behavior. Right. So the recommended brushing times are at least twice a day. Right.
00:06:35
Speaker
So if you brush in the morning and if you brush at night, that keeps your your dental health optimum and it helps you not go to a dentist when you have a problem. So normal checks, you know, oral checkups biannually are usually, really you know, enough.
00:06:54
Speaker
Right. So ah that is something that ah know it's it's already inculcated in people's minds. We do not want them to ah you know deviate from that behavior because each behavior change adds to ah friction for adoption.
00:07:12
Speaker
We don't want that to happen. So ah that is there. So the brushing has to be seamless. Anything else that is introduced into the toothbrush has to be, ah you know, very seamless with as minimal friction as possible. For example, if you take a scan of your mouth before brushing and then scan again,
00:07:31
Speaker
right So it gives you real-time insights of like whether the brushing has been effective or not. And anything that the brushing has not removed from the mouth, any anomaly that the brushing has not removed from your mouth, it gives the user ah actionable insight for them to seek help from their dentist's mouth.
00:07:52
Speaker
ah who by the way are already going to be a part of what our offering is. So of the toothbrush also helps you with connecting with your dentist. The dentist remotely can keep assessing whether your oral health is at optimum or not.
00:08:09
Speaker
And there are also features in which connecting the oral health to the overall systemic health is there. For example, we have PPG sensors and other biosensors in an area near the brushing head.
00:08:24
Speaker
So when it touches the... ah the inner lining of the cheek it starts taking those parameters from your blood supply and from from your arteries and arterioles and other blood vessels and then ah those signals are taken ah and then you get longitudinal insights also so there is a kind of predictive analysis feature also added into the toothbrush the toothbrush gets connected with your ah with your mobile phone and
00:08:56
Speaker
you those longitudinal insights can be further on linked to your other ah wearables and ah whatever devices you use for predictive analysis of your systemic health so and then you get you know predictive analysis for your longevity as well for example if you have cardiovascular issues you do not need to go to a doctor to get your you know blood pressure and other things checked you can have a cross-sectional as well as longitudinal insights right there. All you have to do is brush daily like how you are used to.
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah, wow. Okay, so that's a big ask. did How are you trying to do all this at once? um I mean, it has to be been built into the device itself, right? So the device and the mandate for your brushing is to hold it with your hand, right? So that means another part of the body is already being utilized for your activity or for your brushing activity.
00:10:03
Speaker
So why not use it? And if you want to check for ECG and other things also, all you have to do is touch it with the other hand and then you get three or a four um oh for the parameters for your vascular cardiovascular and your ah cardiovacular cardiovascular as well as metabolic health. as well so ah Those are the things that we are doing. So basically we are very heavy on hardware and the innovation is in the hardware itself. The second layer of innovation comes so in the way we process ah the the systemic and the oral health signals, ah how we use sensor fusion and a lot of predictive algorithms to come to a score which gives you an idea of
00:10:56
Speaker
what your longevity analysis is going to look like. So ah there's a lot of stuff that we are doing, but the first and MVP that we have is totally directed towards oral health and cardiovascular health as well as diabetes is also something that we are looking to include. I mean, no we'll still be operating under the wellness ah ah segment because because of several ah regulatory issues that we might face down the line. so ah
00:11:27
Speaker
So our first mandate is to gather as much data as possible while making a very um oh very nice product, a nice to have product for people to be attracted to.
00:11:40
Speaker
So basically the how how most wearables are out in the market. So we are going to follow that playbook as of now. Yeah. Okay. Very, very, very interesting.
00:11:52
Speaker
And what kind of, i wonder how, whenever you were, because you were practicing as ah as a dentist for years before doing this, right? and what What problems were you seeing on a day-to-day that kind of inspired you to to solve? but what What problem are you solving?
00:12:10
Speaker
um ah I mean, if you look at, I mean, if I have to explain this from the point of view of a dentist, like if I have to get a tooth extraction done for, for, for my patient, right? If I have to get ah the person's tooth out, I have to check for a lot of, uh,
00:12:30
Speaker
and for a lot of parameters before we make him or her undergo that procedure. So we have to look at blood sugar. We have to look at HbA1c. We have to look at his, you know, whether he will be bleeding for a long time if you take out his tooth.
00:12:44
Speaker
Right. So all these parameters are anyway, you know, it's a mandate for us to ah get get get those tests done. So. ah ah So my thinking was like if we had a device in hand which could have, you know, which could have given me those insights even before the the person had converted into a patient to me, this would have been really, really nice. Right.
00:13:10
Speaker
It saves a lot of time. It saves a lot of clinical time. It saves a lot of time from the patient ah from the for for the patient. And the it also makes it way cheaper for everybody involved. Like we have a lot of downtime involved and we have a lot of people who sometimes do not convert for treatment once we send them out for tests and other things. Right.
00:13:33
Speaker
So ah those problems were like holistically thinking, if you look at it, like ah we just shortened the journey from ah from from from some force for somebody who is looking for dental treatment and he is getting it done and still ah you know there is no downtime involved for him or her just because he had to get a tooth pulled so ah That is something that we started working on. So we applied a lot of design thinking into building the product.
00:14:02
Speaker
And the only way for us to be connected ah to somebody would be through something that we usually prescribed to them. And they, you know, use it in the comfort of their own homes.
00:14:17
Speaker
And so so I think it all fell together. And there was, I mean, I mean, we used a lot of common sense and design thinking while building ah what we are building. Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. um And so basically, you're it's the, I guess, sort of like the barrier to entry to to to go to the dentist. It's making it easier for people to to go to the dentist and and already have these things all sorted out.
00:14:49
Speaker
you could say ah that is one of the things because ah if it if you think about like put yoo's put put yourself in the shoes of of ah of a dental patient right to be able to go to a dentist what would you do is ah ah you would be taking an appointment right You will be looking at availability and that availability should you know sync with your convenience and and i mean there there are many other factors involved. And then once you have gotten the appointment,
00:15:26
Speaker
There might be a waiting time. After the waiting time is over, you get into a triage area, you get your screening done, after which you get a treatment plan done. And then the the dentist comes and sees you. He counsels you with the problems that he or she has found.
00:15:43
Speaker
And then you discuss treatment plans and then you go ahead with procedures. Before the procedures, there might be tests and other things involved. So it's a long journey. It's a long journey. There are several, there are very, there are so many moving parts here, right?
00:15:57
Speaker
So if there is something that, ah that could have, you know, ah negated so many moving parts or could have ah made the journey even know shorter by at least 30% that really adds value to ah to your own I mean it it creates a kind of wall factor in your head thinking like okay I just had a problem and I already had clarity about the problem so I went to the dentist And then the dentist just did what needed to be done. And then I can go back home and, you know, resume my daily activities or or whatever needs to be done.
00:16:33
Speaker
do I mean, during your working hours or i on your holiday. Right. so oh of Basically, ah it also helps the dentist to so know triage the patient at home.
00:16:49
Speaker
So you don't have to have a separate area only for triaging and for screening patients. so And ah they are also privy to the kind of to the kind of information that the patients usually have to fill up when they are coming to the office, this right? so Yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
so a lot of ah redundancy has been reduced just because we put sensors in a toothbrush and connected to the dentist to it so that is what we are solving for right very cool and so i i'm pretty curious about are you doing this full-time or is it part-time still working clinic no no it's full-time it's full-time i mean uh Like I used to see about, uh, uh, 10 to 12 patients a day earlier.
Commitment and sacrifices in innovation
00:17:39
Speaker
So now I see 10 to 12 patients a year. So, uh, so that's the kind of scaling down that I've had to do. That is the kind of, I love, uh, I left doing dentistry. Like, uh, it, it,
00:17:51
Speaker
it It helped me reach to where I am today in my own city. I am one of the more well-known dentists. That kind of privilege only comes through hard work and perseverance.
00:18:05
Speaker
And at the thought of having to let go of this really, you know, ah makes you makes you value what you are living all these things for. Right. So, ah so yes, the transition has been heartbreaking, but what needs to be done needs to be done.
00:18:25
Speaker
It must've been scary when you're still working in clinic and you're thinking, should I do this? Should I not do this? What what did that look like for you? um I would say that ah once you have the kind of conviction, ah you know, when you are already oh you are already a believer in what you are want to do for the rest of your life, right?
00:18:47
Speaker
I think that's when you make the switch. And that switch has I mean, if there's no heartbreak involved, like how do you grow it in? So that's another philosophy that I have. So to be able to um ah make gentle dental AI, I have had to let go of well what I had. ah like ah in terms of the dental profession but truth be told I am still connected to the community and still ah people still know me as a dentist and still invited to speak at keynote
00:19:23
Speaker
as keynote speaker in several conferences and other things. So, i I mean, doesn't look like I have missed much apart from seeing patients on a day-to-day basis.
00:19:35
Speaker
So, ah that is that. And also to become an authoritative figure in the profession, ah um there has to be some kind of sacrifice involved, right? I mean, as a dentist, I i might have to i might have missed out on this opportunity which came in the form of gentle dental AI. So it's a trade-off that I'm ah that i'm willing but i'm willingly making.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, I like that, that there's no ah there's no growth without heartbreak. I like that. Yeah, that's fine. You can't make omelettes without breaking a few eggs. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.
00:20:15
Speaker
And so um when you were starting doing this, what was and you were just building like the the the first version of your toothbrush.
00:20:28
Speaker
What
Journey from teardown analysis to prototype development
00:20:29
Speaker
sort of rock walk me through that first version, because building something hardware like that must be there there must be several stages to it. Okay, I'll just give you an idea of what everything like how we like move from phase zero to phase three, which we we are at phase four currently, right?
00:20:51
Speaker
The phase one was a kind of a Basically, it was a teardown analysis of an older toothbrush that I used to use. So I have used all the top brands of toothbrushes that are already available, even the cheaper ones, even the ones that are, you know, ah that you can buy off the shelf and everything right like i got got the ones that are not available in india yet so i just tried them just to tear them down just to understand ah how the mechanics work because i don't come from the engineering background so i i wanted to understand how this so we tore everything down then we made a kind of like a frankenstein's monster kind of toothbrush and just wanted to check whether everything works or not
00:21:35
Speaker
then i ah Then there is a device that dentists use called an intraoral camera, right? So it's like a tiny camera, like a kind of like an endoscope, but it doesn't go all the way down. It just stays in the mouth. It has the same form factor.
00:21:51
Speaker
The handle has is has the same form factor as that of a toothbrush. So we married all of this together and made a kind of like a Frankenstein's monster and then checked whether... ah the camera works as intended.
00:22:06
Speaker
So it did work and we checked for any kind of you know ah friction for use. so So that was the first version of the the gentle lentil AI toothbrush.
00:22:21
Speaker
and the then ah we started looking for partners who can help us through the entire R&D phase and then we got in touch with one ah but they are not a full-fledged medical device R&D company they were a battery manufacturing company a very famous battery manufacturing company in India They had recently opened up their R&D design studio kind of thing. Right.
00:22:51
Speaker
So we got them to do the electrical validation testing. And then oh I told them this is what we want. These are the features. So we want sensors. We want cameras.
00:23:04
Speaker
We want the entire thing to work like a like a toothbrush ah the kind that you that Oral-B or Philips sells for and that thus the that was version 1.1 and then ah the prototype that they made looks nothing like a toothbrush right it's just one PCB along with components placed here and there and is just This was just to check the feasibility of whether electrical components will work as intended or not.
00:23:40
Speaker
and but Then we build the software around it. First, we build the software around it just to check whether, you know, software and hardware will work in tandem or not. And then ah that was how the first feasibility analysis was done.
00:23:55
Speaker
Then came the ah form factor analysis. So we hired somebody from a very top engineering college ah which also offers design courses.
00:24:06
Speaker
So we got somebody who had done masters in industrial design from from that engineering college to come on board as as our as our advisor.
00:24:17
Speaker
So he and I got together to build the first form factor, which was so large that you could not like, you know, when When you hold hold it, it like ah your fingers would still like be apart. It was so thick. So we put all the older components inside and then made it work. And the tears literally came down my eyes when we started working on that because it was a very emotional moment for us because it really worked as intended.
00:24:44
Speaker
So that was version two. third version was in the form of a miniaturized version in which all the components ah the pcb and other components had to be like you know ah shrunken down in size plays as intended we had to undergo a lot of mechanical design and testing like too many back and forth with the with the r and d company and from our in like internal team And then we held in hand the first working prototype, which now could have been called an MVP.
00:25:17
Speaker
But then we were not happy with the look and feel of it because ultimately this is going to become a consumer device, right? So it needs to be very, very sleek. It has to be very nice looking. It should not look very different from how a toothbrush is supposed to look and feel.
00:25:34
Speaker
Right. So we're happy with it. But then now we are working on it. And concurrently, we have also tested the software is working very nicely. We are also seeing all kinds of data that is coming in from our first you know early adopter cohort.
00:25:50
Speaker
And the We are also tying up with the the Dental Association of India and with other partners her who are very much ah willing to help us validate with pilots and ah other and other activities.
00:26:07
Speaker
So that's where we are as of now. Very cool. So you got, because there's a lot of people involved in this. And so how do you, how do you, how, well, just like a very concretely, how do you find these people? Do you just write to people? Do you know people? What, how, how'd you find it?
00:26:26
Speaker
Um, uh, I mean, we had issues with, uh, hiring like, uh, ultimate aid art comes down to what people believe in. I mean, I, uh, like there is no tangible way for us to understand what makes people, uh,
00:26:42
Speaker
get attracted to when you are building, when you are so early stage that no one is funding you. I mean, the it all depends on how, ah what what vision you show to these people and what how much they believe in you. It's like... ah oh For example, when we hired our first um ah CTO, ah he was very skeptical. He didn't want to come on board because he could not see the vision of what we are trying to do. he was his His mindset was like, if we have to build a toothbrush, why build a toothbrush at all when you already have you know smart rings and wearables and other things like why put a similar, you know,
00:27:28
Speaker
features in something that is not being continuously used for the entire day. So I had to make them understand that ah whatever you may believe, believe me that we are not trying to replace variables. We are just trying to build something else altogether.
00:27:45
Speaker
The use case is totally different. So there is a lot of ah ah Like it's not skepticism only from your intended users. Even your team needs to be ah your first set of believers. Unless so the team works with the same kind of frequency of your mind waves, you can't really convince somebody else.
00:28:08
Speaker
Right. So. ah So, like my business mentors have been teaching me, if there is no brainwave matching between you and your team, it's always you like better to let them go because further down the line, they might not ah be a good fit for the company, right? They will anyway. happi So, like you hire four.
00:28:32
Speaker
you know you hire fast but you fire even faster so that philosophy uh we have had to use a lot of times and uh truth be told we pay very well uh to everybody who joins even if it is out of pocket or even if it is like through whatever grants come our way we use them for hiring and retaining talent but uh It all comes down to what vision you show them, whether they believe you in a very concrete manner or not.
00:29:02
Speaker
So that is the thing. So what are people who have come on board? ah If I mean, majority of them are still with us.
00:29:13
Speaker
Only ah people who are there for the money, if you know if you don't pay them well enough, they might leave for better opportunities. But that is fine with us.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. And that's tough to guard against that you can't really. Yeah, we can't really help it. I mean, you you can't stop people from achieving their own ambitions. Right. So. Right.
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 100%. And so you just you you briefly touched on mentors there. do you Do you have mentors? Do you use
Mentorship and public feedback in product development
00:29:42
Speaker
mentors? Yes, we have mentors. I mean, ah I did not know anything about finance when we started this journey.
00:29:49
Speaker
So I have finance mentors, I have business mentors, I have mentors from ah from the engineering background, I have mentors from the design background, I have mentors.
00:30:01
Speaker
I mean, ah it's been ah it's been a very large learning curve for me to be able to you know ah make up my mind, but like whether to switch from my profession or not.
00:30:14
Speaker
So ah these mentors really helped me ah but so withs with everything basically. So whatever my core competency was lacking and we made up for it by having mentors.
00:30:29
Speaker
ah Some were gracious enough to offer their expertise for free. Some were gracious enough to offer their expertise. expertise, even at odd hours during the day, even at times and ungodly hours of the night. So, a hold so yeah, so it's been a very nice journey so far.
00:30:51
Speaker
So how do you, finding a good mentor is something I think is, that's hard. It's not easy to find a good mentor. And so how did you, how did you go about that? One thing I know about people is that, uh,
00:31:05
Speaker
if they are very good at something they usually want to talk about it and they want that knowledge to stay on ah like forever right and the only way to make it happen is to teach somebody else what they know so yeahp So good people have that ah that burning desire in them to to you know to let people on to what they know.
00:31:30
Speaker
Otherwise, knowledge just goes to waste. So all you have to do is ask. Ask a lot of people. You ask 10 people, some people will come and say what you are doing is really not the way should be done.
00:31:44
Speaker
Let me help you, right? So... so So to answer your question, to answer your question, one line is to not you know build in stealth mode.
00:31:54
Speaker
I don't understand why people build in stealth mode. You should always build in public. If you do not build in public, you will not know, ah you will not get the feedback of where you are going wrong. And, you know, it gives you a lot of chances to micro pivot and do a lot of course correction in your journey. So building in public is one of the superpowers that I have. Like I said, a lot of people ah who I have, you know, oh thought of as mentors, they have made me understand one thing, just like how they're very free with their knowledge. Same thing I can also do at my own level, right?
00:32:32
Speaker
I can always build in public, let people see what I'm building. And then once they come on board, ah they will already have seen what I'm building and I don't have to explain to them, right? So their insights help me my micro pivot and make course corrections and keep me on track.
00:32:51
Speaker
Very interesting. So um that's one of your superpowers. Do you have, are there any other things you would consider superpowers? Superpowers, yeah. Finding the right people, finding the right people to help, like, you know, push through bad times, push through, ah you know, ah push any kind of adversities, finding the right people to help me along. That is one of my superpowers.
00:33:18
Speaker
I'm not a, I'm not a, how do you say? I'm not a very good engineer. I'm not an engineer at all. I'm not a very a good product manager. I'm not a very good oh fundraiser.
00:33:31
Speaker
I'm not a very good CEO even, but my superpowers are finding all the right people who can help me with things that I am not capable of.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of humility in that. You could call that another superpower. Yeah, yeah. well Yeah, nice. Okay, so so um you're you're sort of in the in that at that intersection between there's some hardware, there's some AI, there's some clinical workflows, there's some ay ah consumer habits and stuff. which Which one of these avenues turned out to be the most difficult to navigate?
00:34:13
Speaker
Um, the most difficult would be the data acquisition that helps you build your foundational models with. So like, uh, we, the AI part basically, yeah.
00:34:25
Speaker
Hardware has not been an issue with us because that's not something that we are handling in house. Uh, the R and D is coming from somebody who is like very well versed with, uh, with that segment.
00:34:37
Speaker
Right. So, uh, so, uh, So the software part, the the AI part is in house. So I would say that has been the most difficult part. And the the why we wanted to keep this in house is because I wanted to keep a very close eye on on on the development.
00:34:56
Speaker
Right. So, ah so far, data acquisition at scale is one of the most difficult processes that we have had to undergo because so reliable data and it's not, not just data. I mean, there are several ways we can acquire data. We can go to any public repository. We can always go to any, ah you know, we can buy data. I mean, in India, if you, if you know, it's not that difficult to gather data, but to have reliable data and also to have diverse, a diverse data set, it's, it's, it's not easy because, uh, uh,
00:35:35
Speaker
There's so many different types of ah oh I mean, India is a very composite, pluralistic society, right?
00:35:46
Speaker
And you have to navigate through a lot of ah hurdles before you get to the right ah source of data. So that is one challenge that we are facing.
00:35:57
Speaker
So, um I mean, our team is good, but the they can only work so hard with the kind of data that I can bring for them. So...
00:36:09
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Very interesting. um So my, the, the show, the podcast is called, it's it's called good build anyway. And the idea behind that name is just that the struggle is sort of a signal of a good thing. and it's not a problem.
00:36:26
Speaker
that been The struggle sort of becomes the path. Right. and So what's been the, the hardest part of building gentle dental for you? And what is it? What does that talk to you?
00:36:36
Speaker
The hard parts of this?
Fundraising challenges and strategic investments
00:36:38
Speaker
Okay, so ah building gentlelittle AI, um hiring has not been so, okay, let me just count them off. There are so many things that have, ah you know, ah they have, I mean, there are so many things that have gone wrong.
00:36:52
Speaker
So many things we have had to, you know, pivot ah from and so... so And the thing that has kept us going is the kind of capital that has come in for us at the right time. So I've not mentioned this earlier, but let me just give you a background on push of how how how we like raise capital.
00:37:14
Speaker
So, uh, uh, You know for a fact that oh around the world ah in health tech, there's not much capital going in simply because of the fact that the gestation is a very long one. The gestation time is very long, right? So you see I always have seven years, eight years because of the kind of regulatory and compliance, you know, ah workflows are like simply because it's a lot of bureaucracy involved, right? Right. Yeah. well Yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
So when we started going out for fundraising, we didn't we we didn't find a lot of takers. I mean, we had a lot of interest from different parties involved.
00:37:59
Speaker
And then... ah At the right time, one VC stepped in ah who was totally intrigued with what we were building and we had not even pitched to them.
00:38:12
Speaker
That's the funny part. They came looking for us. And then, you know, one thing led to and another and at the end of 15 days of back and forth, we met and then they just simply said, it's fine.
00:38:28
Speaker
We love what you're building. I think you need a lot of mentorship. You also need a lot of handholding, uh, with a lot of patient capital. They simply asked, what do you need right now?
00:38:41
Speaker
I told them. All we need right now is a small amount of money that will help us right through the r and d That's all. We are not looking to take salaries. We are not looking to, you know, fill our own pockets with, uh, with any kind of remuneration. We'll just take, uh, what is needed for building for, for building what we have in mind.
00:39:04
Speaker
We only have, uh, uh, an ugly prototype that is nowhere near what we want this to be. I told them my vision, what we want to build for the future, where we want to see ourselves in 20 years.
00:39:16
Speaker
So they simply wrote a check and left. That's it. And that has really, you know, helped us with a lot of um things that are, you know, very risky for investors to put money in, especially in healthcare. care So that was one of the most difficult things that we have done.
00:39:37
Speaker
you know, that we have surpassed. Like ah that, that was one thing that yes, I'm still seeing people who have been building for years now, not having that kind of break till date.
00:39:50
Speaker
So that is one thing that is very difficult in healthcare and we have grabbed Very nice. Yeah. And do you how do you have to keep it do you can do you kind of have to keep at it or does that same partner keep coming back or how does that work?
00:40:06
Speaker
So ah the the money that came in, that only helped us de-risk the development process. but then we also need to scale it up to become a manufacturable device and then you know ah try to find ways for it to market it and other things like so right now we just got the pre-seed so we extended the pre-seed to include a few a few hundred thousand dollars. I mean, let's say five hundred thousand dollars we'll use to make it into a real product and then ah we'll push it to market. So the GTM is going to be a long process.
00:40:41
Speaker
So like I said, patient capital is the key to what we are building. And the the main entry entry barrier in healthcare care is the kind of de-risking that happens. And it's only when you're very lucky and when you catch a break from investors like the ones that we have, they're very selective and they don't usually give out ah open calls for proposals. They will simply find you, talk to you and bring you into their portfolio.
00:41:10
Speaker
So that's how they operate. So such VCs are the keys, are the key to your venture success. So ah that's what I would suggest for all other founders who you interact with.
00:41:24
Speaker
If you have this piece of information, try to find strategic investors who are totally aligned already with what you are building rather than you going out and pitching to them. It's a waste of time, basically. So, I mean, before them, I had been pitching to 200 investors odd VCs out of which some 50 VCs had said they would get back to me who said they would want to discuss further who said they would like to meet who ah who said they will be sending a term sheet but all to no avail right this is just one guy one one guy from one VC firm who reached out on their own made the meeting and you know put money where their mouths were so
00:42:08
Speaker
So this is like pure luck and a lot of grid. I mean, ah i they would not have met me if I had not talked to 200 VCs earlier, right? So you just have to spread yourselves out there.
00:42:21
Speaker
That's how you maximize your luck factor.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah. It kind of comes back to that thing about building in public, right? Because if you were building in public. If you build in public and also it's not just building, it's ah you also have to raise in public. So you have to raise funds in public.
00:42:39
Speaker
It's only then where you get inbound interest from VCs and only then, you know, people will know, people will talk about you. The more they talk about you, the more ah you are likely to be funded.
00:42:56
Speaker
Right. So has there, this whole process, has there been...
Refining business model and learning from experiences
00:43:01
Speaker
something where you thought this is, this idea here is a great idea. Let's do that. But it turned out to be completely wrong.
00:43:09
Speaker
um Yes. So at the most, because I did not have any business, oh um ah how do you say expertise? So we went with the lowest hanging fruit, which was services.
00:43:21
Speaker
So we thought if we could have our own, ah you know, a chain of clinics like like a DSO, right? If you could have that, we could be utilizing the tool brush for our own you know internal ah consumption, right? we could like We could have a lot of clinics and we could you know sell the tool brush to our own ah set of patients.
00:43:46
Speaker
We could do that, right? What we did not know was that services, especially you know brick and mortar services, they do not scale, right? So, and, uh, it, it would have anyway, you know, absorbed a lot of capital.
00:43:59
Speaker
It was very capital intake. And, uh, uh, so we started with an MVP of three clinics, uh, which went to five clinics in my city and it became very expensive just to keep on, keep them running. And it was really, uh, you know, eating into our own R and D budget.
00:44:16
Speaker
So we had to shut down all the clinics. We are just operating with two now. Two, because one, I had to keep for myself ah and for my existing team.
00:44:27
Speaker
And one, we sold it to one former employee um who became our franchisee. I said, okay, you keep on running, at least the brand will remain. So... oh So we scaled it down and we diverted all the OPEX capital back into our R&D. And that's one well-timed pivot that we we did, which is made all the difference.
00:44:52
Speaker
So, yeah. That's a big decision. I mean, it came from a bias because i was a clinician and I thought I could run a lot of clinics very well. Right. So that's the kind of a cognitive bias that you have to let go of.
00:45:07
Speaker
So, uh, So it was the lowest hanging fruit for me at the time. This is was this was four years back. So now I'm totally, you know, divorcing myself from the idea that as a clinician, I know better. No, it's not like that. We have to, you know, we have to take inputs from the market rather than, you know, apply our own bias on some things that are really out of control.
00:45:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Was there a certain time where you were like, where it of clicked for you, where you kind of instinctively understand, like, this is a good idea, this is something I'm going to run with?
00:45:48
Speaker
um Yes. So ah I'll just give you an insider's view into what we are building, okay? So what happened is, We were going to put a ah sensor and a camera near the bristle head. So let's say, ah I'll just show you a pen here, right? Imagine this is the toothbrush head.
00:46:10
Speaker
This is where the bristles are and this is where the camera and the, let's say the sensors are, right? So when we started building the prototype, when we're putting it in the mouth, because of so many things within a very small space, this made the toothbrush very bulky.
00:46:30
Speaker
And i knew for a fact that I needed the camera as well as I needed the sensor also to be in the same place. So is there a way for us to, you know, make the toothbrush head smaller so that it will not interfere with the the brushing oh with the brushing experience, right?
00:46:50
Speaker
So we started brainstorming and then... ah
00:46:56
Speaker
While we were like doing the research on how to miniaturize, ah you know, multiple sensors into a very small form factor.
00:47:08
Speaker
So we found that there was a way in which we could do away with the sensor and turn the camera also in like, ah like to, how do you say, modify the camera to work like a sensor.
00:47:23
Speaker
So there was, so we couldn't, we could, we could, so that we could, you know, use the camera as a dual purpose device. So, So once we found the way to do it, we simply, you know, went ahead with the idea. I asked my engineering mentors, I asked my odd product mentor and he he and along with his group, they all, you know, unequivocally they were saying that ah you should definitely do away with one extra sensor so that you know the form factor can be reduced and there will be no difference ah in the
00:48:02
Speaker
in the way people brush so we simply dropped a lot of oh like extra or silicon and extra sensors so that the experience will not matter I mean the experience will not be like a difficult for people to adopt so So that was one thing. So in the device architecture itself, we did a lot of keywords.
00:48:27
Speaker
Then ah in the business also, like somebody told us that one of the one of the best ah or business schools in India where we were incubated at, they had given me an idea saying that you should definitely make this a D2C product, direct to consumer.
00:48:46
Speaker
And oh first we went along with their idea. But then when we did our own, like, you know, ah inner brainstorming, we came to understand that the the main problem that we were facing was with skepticism, right?
00:49:03
Speaker
If you directly go D to C, this will only scale. The skepticism will only scale. You cannot. ah so ah So what we did is we said we'll never let go of this trust layer that we are trying to form with dentists and other doctors.
00:49:18
Speaker
right We'll always try to form the trust layer first before we move ahead. I mean, this might set us back by one year. um I'm fine with it. Anyway, healthcare has a long gestation.
00:49:29
Speaker
What would one year or year like make or break? right So let's go ahead with making a trust layer and then we'll make it open for all. So that is so one idea that really brings us back on track.
00:49:45
Speaker
I mean, ah like when you expose yourself to a lot of ideas, there are also, you know, some bad ideas that will come come along. ah what Yeah. So you need to find that right balance between who to listen to and what your team is saying and what your gut feeling is also saying. So there's a lot of...
00:50:04
Speaker
the there are a lot of permutations and combinations that you have to work with. Like if you have to call yourself a builder, then you have to work with a lot of variables. So this is just one of them.
00:50:16
Speaker
All right. Okay.
Conclusion: Emphasizing prevention and regular checkups
00:50:18
Speaker
So we're, ah Dr. Chiv, we're getting towards the end. Is there anything that you've that you would like to, that you feel like you haven't said or that you want to say? and And where can people find out more?
00:50:30
Speaker
um I would just say as a dentist, please brush your teeth because the economy, the world economy is not as, oh you know, as good as as it used to be.
00:50:44
Speaker
So always so make sure that prevention of any kind of disease. problems should be your primary concern and prevention is not just better than cure-off it's often cheaper too so always so make sure that prevention should be your go-to method of not falling sick rather than you know use punish punitive measures like going to a dentist and getting your drillings and fillings done Better to always always have ah oh checkups done at a very consistent time yeah and not be very erratic about your appointments.
00:51:27
Speaker
So, yeah, guys prevention, prevention, prevention. That's my That's good advice. by the way I think that's our show. i am That was very, very fascinating. I really appreciate that. Thanks for coming on.
00:51:43
Speaker
Thank you for having me. Thank you, Hansen.