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5. Modern Evil Dead Massaacre
56 Plays1 year ago
On our new episode, we go through a triple threat match comprised of the modern entries in the Evil Dead franchise! The 2013 remake faces off against the three seasons of Ash vs Evil Dead, as well as the more recent Evil Dead Rise from 2023! Who will be crowned victorious? Listen and find out!
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Theme music: "Burn The World Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Transcript
Introduction to Media Mega Rumble
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Media Mega Rumble, the podcast where films, TV shows, characters and video games step into the ring to fight it out, to determine who will be crowned victorious.
00:00:39
Speaker
My name is John Holt and with me is novelist and former writer for WhatCulture, James Brigginshaw. How are you? Very well, sir. Very well. good to Glad to be back after many years of exile.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yes, it is good to be back. And perhaps a brief note on that. um Yeah, you could just go have to bear with us, basically. I think, it was it best laid plans and all that stuff? So the intention was to have this out every two weeks. I mean, I think we were poor naive fools, but it was a noble goal.
00:01:14
Speaker
And now I think it's going to be once a month if we're lucky. You know, if fortune smiles upon us, which it decidedly has not in recent times.
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah, so far, Incident of Fortune has not been a great friend so far. so yeah yeah, hope for the best, but expect the worst. ah yeah one Exactly. So, you know, we'll get to you, basically.
00:01:39
Speaker
Best we could do.
Focus on the Evil Dead Franchise
00:01:42
Speaker
So on this episode, we are looking at the Evil Dead, but not the classics from pre-1993. no.
00:01:51
Speaker
We are looking at the films and TV that exists in the franchise from 2013 onwards. In summary, that is Evil Dead, released in 2013 and directed by Fede Alvarez, which made $97.5 million worldwide at the box office.
00:02:13
Speaker
And we talked about this before because this took ages for a sequel to be made. It really did. And like the the amount of talk, I mean, if I had a penny for every time Bruce Campbell said there's a sequel coming or there's a remake coming or yeah I'd be, I'd have at least five pounds.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah. It's nuts. And then next in the modern Evil Dead franchise was Ash versus Evil Dead, the TV show that ran for three seasons between 2015 2018.
00:02:41
Speaker
on stars if you were in the in the states but then it later made its way to various other streaming services and then finally there was evil dead rise released in 2023 and directed by lee cronin which made 147 million office worldwide at the box office Yeah, very good take. And I think it had a budget of like 15, 20 million. So that's it. Well, yeah, we'll get to that in a second. But in that film's background is interesting, let's say.
00:03:17
Speaker
So anyway, the format of this, this is a triple threat match.
Competitive Format and Rumors
00:03:22
Speaker
which is fitting because all I've seen in WWE wwe recently is four-way matches and triple threat matches. like The one-on-one match seems to have gone the way of the Dodo. They they love a triple threat match now in w WWE. and So basically, the best of these three has to pin the worst of these three, and your winner is the one who makes the pin.
00:03:45
Speaker
So, let us get to it.
00:03:51
Speaker
Great. no smell yeah So Evil Dead 2013. Yeah, like
00:04:01
Speaker
yeah like you said, that they were trying to get this together from at least 2004. And I remember at one point it was seriously rumoured that Park Chan-wook was going to direct it.
00:04:13
Speaker
like around the time of sort of old boy lady vengeance. But that didn't really happen. So we got Evil Dead in 2013. And I remember seeing the trailer for this because they released what they call like a red band trailer online, which is like hardcore and nightmare. And I was just like, that looks borderline unwatchable.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, i feel like the trailers that I saw were focused on the whole like tree rape scene. Really? I didn't see that trailer. I think so.
00:04:48
Speaker
I mean, maybe I misremembered it, but I do remember seeing like a lot of trailers for this. I feel like there was a lot of hype and press kind of yeah leading up to this.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that, I don't know, like from that initial trailer, you got the vibe of, oh, this is definitely remaking quote-unquote video nasty, but actually becoming the film that the tabloid press thought it was in the first place, which it really wasn't.
00:05:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, i guess we'll talk about it, but I have trouble fitting this film in, in terms of where this fits in the grand scheme of of Evil Dead. so i So I've seen this film twice now. I think the first time I saw it, I did not enjoy it. I think I had my arms folded. i was like, this isn't going to be Army of Darkness, which it definitely wasn't.
00:05:46
Speaker
um But I always assumed that Evil Dead 2013 was just a pure remake of the first film. However...
00:05:56
Speaker
Having done a little bit of research, and Alvarez has come and said, and I think I need to go back and and watch it because apparently Ash's car is like in the background of some shots from the first film. So it's apparently direct continuation, but it doesn't it doesn't feel like a sequel. It definitely feels like a remake or a reboot.
Evil Dead 2013 Analysis
00:06:20
Speaker
And I guess, you know, nowadays they can be all of those things and more, you know, we have side prequels, whatever, but it definitely feels like a remake to me, which is, yeah, it seems against the odds of kind of what the filmmaker classes it as.
00:06:36
Speaker
Well, I think that, The way this starts, rather than like a whole bunch of kids going to your cabin in the woods to get picked off, is they're actually there for the purposes of trying to get a character named Mia off of drugs, yeah which is quite an interesting angle to it.
00:06:57
Speaker
Yeah. Because, of course, she's the one that then gets possessed first or the evil starts messing with her, what have you. And they kind of put it down to, oh it's extreme drug withdrawal.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah. Which is an interesting angle. Yeah, I really liked it. I mean, I think my only kind of regret with that is they didn't kind of stretch that out more. Like what I would have liked is, you know, kind of as she went on that, you know, it it even as it was kind of clear that people, that she was possessed, that maybe there was a bit more denial from everybody else. I feel like it was yeah kind of a a good setup for like 10, 15 minutes. And by the time all all the killings started, it kind of, I don't know, if for it falls maybe by the wayside, the whole, the whole, yeah, the Mia thing's interesting. And she's definitely not a character.
00:07:53
Speaker
i mean, I think, would you agree that like, kind of when they kind of say, oh, Mia, you know, she's going through all this. I kind of assumed she'd be the first one gone. And she kind of is, but she kind of isn't at the same time.
00:08:05
Speaker
oh yeah ah But cooked from like minute one. I know. Yeah, I know what you mean, because you do assume... I sort of assumed that the one... guy in it that's sort of good looking and tall was going to be the ash type character yeah but it kind of flips that on its head a bit but yeah I mean Jane Levy plays Mia she's really good yeah this film and then she was in um Alvarez's next movie Don't Breathe have you seen that?
00:08:41
Speaker
I haven't, but I've Yeah, I know there's turkey basters and all sorts of Yeah, good film up to a point, let's let's say that. Up to the turkey basters. Yeah, up to there bit of a strange term. But um yeah, she's really good in this. Like, really good. And I don't think anyone's necessarily bad in this.
00:09:01
Speaker
but I feel like one character gets all the violence thrown his way. Like there's one character in this film who suffers way more than any character I've seen on screen outside of Wile E. Coyote, maybe. And he's a bloody cartoon.
00:09:18
Speaker
And he just, he, every time you think he dies, he's like, no, um okay. It's fine. Let's go. And um still okay and then, and then it's like, it's girlfriend, whoever comes out with a nail gun and you're like, he's done. And then he's like, no, I'm okay. i like I think there's that bit like towards the end, he's like in the flooded basement and he kind of finally like slumps into the water and he's done. yeah Up to then he's been like stabbed with a hypodermic needle He's like... The worst bit in the film for me. Yeah, he's been like cut open. He's been riddled with nails from a nail gun. I think he gets shot in the guts.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah. that's when he's finally like, I'm done now. and um need a nap. He's okay, that this injury, this might be quite hard to recover from while he's like pulling out the nails and stuff.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, does. He only... assumption I can find really is that they did that because he read from the book. He was the character that opens it. I don't know that correctly.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah. So like I can only think ah that that's a reason for his punishment. But okay. So here's so here's my biggest... problem with the film. i just terrib and sorry but I'll say that again.
00:10:38
Speaker
ah There is there's one part of this film that I can never kind of get my head around every time. So when Mia's brother buries Mia and she's possessed, yeah she then, he then as far as I can tell, kind of has a change of heart.
00:11:01
Speaker
takes her out of the grave, and then resuscitates her, and then she's no longer a demon. Yeah. What on earth is that about? Because I could go with it, but the fact her physical appearance changes back as if she hasn't mutilated herself, which I'm just like, I'm not watching this for science, but I kind of want some... It just seems like a very...
00:11:27
Speaker
left turn of a law that I didn't know that needed was. it's kind of like burying... man. Okay. So if I've got this right, it's like burying the body with the possessed... the possession in it so that that, in effect, dies. It exits the body, resuscitates Mia. She is herself, I think.
00:11:50
Speaker
But then... See, this is the thing I think is the letdown about this movie.
Reception and Critique of Evil Dead 2013
00:11:56
Speaker
I think the ending sucks, right? Interesting. Because the whole ultimate evil turns out to just look like her.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yes. And it's like, I'm sorry, but Evil Dead 2, best film of all time. i'm going to say this several times tonight. Best film of all time. Ultimate Evil... looks like a tree with several faces embedded in it that will reach in and and grab you.
00:12:25
Speaker
So to have the ultimate evil now reduced to essentially what we've seen already up to that point, a possessed version, is a bit of a letdown.
00:12:36
Speaker
And they do, it's weird because they they build it up that, I can't remember what they, I think it's called the Abomination. They're like, oh, this is, when the Abomination rises, it's like the start of the apocalypse. Yeah.
00:12:47
Speaker
And then you're like, oh, this is just the doppelganger of... Yeah. That's what mean. But I would, the only, although I agree with you 100% on that point, I guess I prefer the ending in the sense that that's kind of The way the film ends is more... That last 10, 15 minutes is how I kind of wanted the whole film to be, where... ah Okay, there's gore and stuff throughout the film, but where, you know, you get the...
00:13:18
Speaker
where she chainsaws the abomination, and she's just kind of like waving the chainsaw around. It's like going all floppy and stuff. And then when she gets her arm crushed and then takes out the chainsaw, like, I like the fact that they they kind of did some kind of comedy bits that we would have seen from original trilogy, but grounded in that kind of realistic world. And I just kind of wanted the...
00:13:41
Speaker
ah ah felt I feel like the rest of the film it was a very slow burn kind of leading up to this point. and Yeah, it's... I mean, i think that there's... Sorry to go back to Evil Dead 2 the previous... is the greatest film of all time, so... It is, but like...
00:14:03
Speaker
you know the tagline for Evil Dead 2 was a nerve jangle in rollercoaster ride of terror or something like that. Whereas I think that this... i don't think it's scary.
00:14:16
Speaker
no it's not. It's like the teacups equivalent. Yeah, and I don't think it's suspenseful. And I think that what it does is it's like you want a video nasty, here's a video nasty.
00:14:31
Speaker
And it's just like... let's absolutely push the limit of, you know, power tools, self mutilation, people getting bludgeoned to death, nail guns, like all that stuff. And I think that's about all it's got going for it. Apart from, I do think it's a film that looks really good.
00:14:53
Speaker
It does look great. Like the way it's shot, like deep sort of blacks and deep kind of browns and, you know, grey skies and, you know, it's really good. and Overall, I like this.
00:15:06
Speaker
I don't love it. and But I still find it weird that it didn't get a direct sequel for a really long time. Yeah, it it was odd. It did seem like the... um like it kind of warranted sequel. I mean, I did find it interesting that ah kind of a decade later or whatever it was, Alvarez would then go on to direct ah alien Romulus. So he's, I feel like he's kind of made quite a nice niche for himself in terms of like, he'll go in, reboot the franchise and then just kind of like, you know, kind of quietly walk away and and let it, ae let it, let it blossom. So yeah, I think it's,
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think i think it's it's solid. I ah don't think, you know, unless it had Evil Dead in the title, wouldn't necessarily, you know, i wouldn't necessarily call it an Evil Dead film. I mean, like like you say, the updated visuals are like quite like really crisp and sharp and actually quite spooky.
00:16:17
Speaker
But like, you know, if we look at, what we think of as a classic dead eye is very different from what they present. And even like the tree scene, it's kind of played for realism. And like I say, I've just, if it had had just gone a bit more balls to the wall, like it does kind of in the last 10, 15 minutes, but just kind of sparse out throughout the whole film. And as I said, think they really had something with Mia's storyline, but it's, the entire film should centre around that, whereas it kind of doesn't. It's her story, but her story around the drugs and rehabilitation is only a very small part of it, so...
00:16:54
Speaker
m My kind of closing thing I will say on this is I enjoyed it a lot more the second time that I watched it for this podcast. The first time I saw it, as I say, very much arms folded. This isn't what Sam Raimi would have even though this was exactly yeah but Even though this was exactly what exactly what Sam Raimi would have wanted.
00:17:15
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, yeah. Well, that's the thing as well. The first time I missed the post-credits scene as well because I was just so upset. so That's the other thing. You just reminded me.
00:17:28
Speaker
yeah yeah i was just talking about like my dog and and the the new goings on around town, yeah around around the gardens.
Social Media and Classic Films Discussion
00:17:35
Speaker
For some reason, hi someone in the block opposite kept f throwing various pudding stuffs off their balcony and into the gardens.
00:17:44
Speaker
Excellent. It went on like for about a week. You go out there, there was bread and butter pudding on the lawn. And then the next day there was rice pudding. And it's like, who is doing this? like And my dog kept going straight for it. I was like, no, bread and butter pudding is not for dogs kind of thing. But it's like what led to the circumstances where someone threw the pudding off the balcony in a rage?
00:18:11
Speaker
Like, yeah how can you get angry with Bryce Pudding? Yeah. And anyway, someone, it wasn't us, but someone brought this up on the neighbor's WhatsApp group. It was like, who is throwing puddings off the off of the fucking balcony?
00:18:24
Speaker
so like And someone chimed in, like the the sort of ring lead around it, the guy who's in charge. And he was like, I've spoken to him. It's not done maliciously. It's done out of love.
00:18:36
Speaker
Everything's going to be all right. And that was all he said about it. And it's like, that's incredible what is this mystery? I do not understand. Yeah. yeah I mean, i in my head, he was just doing a freezer clear out and he was like I've got so many fucking puddings. I need to get like some bread and butter puddings. Like, fuck this.
00:18:57
Speaker
Off it goes into the night. i just drops off the balcony into the void and he's like and it was never seen again the sun rises sunrises he's like oh fuck it's still there and the next day had a bad day at work so the first thing he did at 9 o'clock when he clocked off he went grab some angel to light out the cover and said fuck this and it went out the French doors again and then no the wife comes home and he's like Marjorie, we've you've got to stop buying these fucking puddings. The freezer is overflowing. I cannot throw... One day, fine. I can get away with it. Two days, fine. I'm having to chuck these out every day of the week, Marjorie.
00:19:35
Speaker
People will notice. And then old matey's just like, all right, another dessert fiend. Okay, all right, let's sort this out. yeah like It's not the only man i've I've dealt with over the years. He's thrown pudding over the balcony. I don't know what came over me. Just...
00:19:50
Speaker
Blind Red Rage. don't like sticky toffee that much. You you put it in a microwave too long and then it burns the roof of your mouth. I just... and just and i Ridiculous. Amazing.
00:20:04
Speaker
That's living in Watford. So... ah Yeah, I think maybe as well, actually. Evil Dead 2013 was kind of the the first indication that I was out of step with horror fandom on the internet.
00:20:21
Speaker
Because it's like one of the first films I can remember where on Twitter before it was obviously a Nazi echo chamber, like it was like, this is the best horror film of all time. And I was like, that's steady on.
00:20:36
Speaker
you know, come on guys. Yeah, is really? But then I noticed it with every single horror movie that would come out. It was like, the Bye Bye Man is the best horror film of all time sort of thing. And I was just a bit like, yeah, I don't really see a lot of critique and analysis going on. It's just like yeah a lot of hype.
00:20:57
Speaker
I also think as well, this was kind of one of the first kind of films of its generation where, at least in my mind, where a separate audience had grown up with the old ones and there was kind of like a new of kind of Twitter generation or whatever coming into this one who may not have seen...
00:21:16
Speaker
the old ones. So kind of thought that like, Oh, this is like this totally hot original property. And it's like, there's actually ah legacy, which I do wonder if the youngins, you know, like could somebody 20 plus 20 years old, pick up the original trilogy and like, get it, you know, it just, yeah, I don't know.
00:21:39
Speaker
That's an interesting question. Like as the years have gone on though, It has been interesting where I've met people like 20 years younger than me who think Evil Dead 2 is really good.
00:21:52
Speaker
And I'm like, good on you, because I wouldn't have expected that. But I guess a classic is a classic. Although I guess I was probably like that when I was young. i was still into that sort of stuff. like I've had many people that wi you and me both know who say that I'm kind of old beyond my years in a cultural terms.
00:22:15
Speaker
And yeah, I guess maybe every generation has its people that but like, maybe there's a 19-year-old watching Casablanca somewhere. I don't know where I'm going with this, but of course, it sounded great. I don't either, but the Blob, you know, like the Blob remake.
00:22:31
Speaker
Oh, what what a film. Yeah. Again, Invasion of the Body Snatchers as well. Yeah, but I'd never, I would never seek out the 50s version of the Blob. Because I think it would be a bad time.
00:22:45
Speaker
it ah Yeah, I guess it would. i mean, yeah, I guess with my reference, like I suppose Invasion of the Body Snatchers, one with Donald Sutherland, I think I watched a 50s, early 60s one, and that was like, yeah, wasn't.
00:23:00
Speaker
See, I wouldn't go back and do that. Like, I would not seek out the original Body Snatchers. I've seen, like, the 78 version the 93 versions.
00:23:11
Speaker
And have no real... and I'm probably missing out. I don't know. Maybe. I don't think you are. i mean, I think there's a remake with, like, was it Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig? so The Invasion is kind of not body snatchers, but it is.
00:23:26
Speaker
yeah Like, The Faculty is not body snatchers, but it is. Yeah, and the 93 version. It's been a while since I've seen it, but see remember that was a big big pile of streaming. That's a weird movie.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah, because it's like not really the body. like They're on like an army base and stuff. and yeah like There's something in there about dehumanisation of soldiers, maybe, but very weird.
00:23:51
Speaker
very like like Talking about films that look good, that 93 body snatchers, looks phenomenal yeah really like the photography in it is incredible and yet it didn't come out in the cinema they were like nah this is going straight to video which is weird yeah probably the the best looking of the films well yeah well there we go body body snatches for for anybody that wants you know a hip and happening up-to-date franchise check it out Maybe that'll be a future episode.
00:24:23
Speaker
That's actually not a bad idea. Well done, We'll write that one down. See, we're just peeling back the curtain and just showing people that in a massive... snatchers and body snatchers rip-offs.
00:24:34
Speaker
Yes, agreed. And I want to get the blob in there somewhere. So if we can kind of say this is the alien kind of things as an episode. It's very catchy title. so Look for that new episode coming.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, coming to you in November 2020. So anyway, you you just talked about Evil Dead. You um sounded surprised when you noticed Ash's car, which is...
00:25:03
Speaker
Sam Raimi's classic 76 automobile, I think, from the original movie. Are you aware that there's an end credits scene in Evil Dead 2013?
00:25:17
Speaker
so So weirdly, this is this is so bad. it's It's like a builder cutting corners. But I've seen the film twice. and Even the second time where i saw it recently, I've turned it off at the credits.
00:25:31
Speaker
But still knowing full well there was a post-credits scene. Huh. So it's it's a kind of a weird situation. But it's basically like, like oh, here's Ash.
00:25:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's not much of an end-credits scene. yeah He basically looks at the camera and says, Groovy. Yeah, and then he's never seen again, apart from, well... Apart from the next contestant or participant in our triple threat, which is
Ash vs Evil Dead TV Series Insights
00:26:00
Speaker
Ash vs. Evil Dead, the TV show, which ran from 2015 to 2018 for three seasons.
00:26:06
Speaker
Of 10 episodes each, each episode was half an hour. But first question, kind of a subtopic. Now that you've seen all three seasons to this, right?
00:26:17
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Let me ask you. Would you have preferred a standalone Evil Dead 4 or this? o i'd have to say a standalone Evil Dead 4.
00:26:33
Speaker
i
00:26:37
Speaker
I feel like, i mean, when I first saw it, I thought kind of halfway through season one, I was like, oh, this is awesome. It's just continuation of the the original trilogy. But as it went on, I was kind of like, it's a bit of a tired ode to kind of times gone by. And it's like everything they did in a trilogy, but just just just not quite as good, not quite as slick, not quite as gory, not quite... It just it just felt like the original trilogy, but just just kind of, you know, it it was like that the franchise was having its swan song. So, yeah, I definitely would have... I mean, i think at one point, I mean, this has always been...
00:27:14
Speaker
touted quite a lot but i think out of all the films i want to do a direct sequel i think army of darkness has been talked about as a one to like let's do a direct sequel to that and do all that and obviously the ending to this one where it's post-apocalyptic thing and all that sort stuff um but yeah i'm is that what you're thinking like you would have preferred it as a standalone film well i do wonder now Because apparently um this show basically germinated from scripts and treatments and various ideas for Evil Dead 4 that were had over the previous 30 years.
00:27:56
Speaker
And so I think a majority of the first season would have been the plot for Evil Dead 4. But I also think there's elements to do with like his daughter and stuff like that.
00:28:11
Speaker
and certain demons that were also in evil dead four but don't come in into it until like seasons two and three and um but this one continues after the ending of the three theatrical cut of army of darkness where where it picks up sometime after that but basically the alternate ending for army of darkness is he's really far in the future because he slept too long to get back But then essentially what this means is that um this one sort of picks up in the modern era and it's got, you know, like, I don't know, like, is is this too much of a good thing?
00:29:00
Speaker
I think is is the question that I get asked. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um
00:29:10
Speaker
With this, I really enjoy the first season, but I do you think the second and third season better, I want to say. i think it gets into a bit of a groove with itself and relaxes and it explores more interesting concepts, I would say. Yeah, I think as well with the third season as well, because by that point, I think they knew...
00:29:36
Speaker
By the time they were kind of and writing or or film yeah filming the third season, they already knew that kind of time was up like I kind of put it down to the like the Hannibal tv show which is one of the greatest tv shows as well in the sense that um similar to that in the sense that it was like you know not very high ratings but they got to a point like they did with Asher's Evil were Dead where they're like this season has to be the final season and so we need to get everything kind of wrapped up which I actually think weirdly does work in its favor because it it
00:30:12
Speaker
you know, all those plot points that it would have kind left dangling, it then just kind of puts it, you know, fairly nicely together and, you know. Yeah, um I mean, supposedly, like, behind-the-scenes struggles on this were pretty bad. Like, there was a lot of disagreement, like, behind-the-scenes about who can do what and what they can get away with. And and you know, like the the colon, possessed colon bit in, I think, season two, that bit, so like the producers were like, you absolutely cannot do this on screen.
00:30:50
Speaker
And then the the people behind it were like, no, yes, we can. Yes, we can. Shut up, sort thing. And it was a big um disagreement. that never really got resolved. But what didn't anticipate about this, because obviously we only really had, you know, Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, which is what, ah at best, four and a half hours of film.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah. A little bit of Ash Williams goes a very long way. like little bit being the key word. Yeah. Yeah. it it becomes annoying.
00:31:26
Speaker
And I didn't think I'd ever like see something with that character where he's actually become quite annoying. Yeah, it so again, I guess to make a Star Wars comparison now, which we're always very excited when Star Wars gets mentioned.
00:31:43
Speaker
It's like with the Book of Boba Fett. So Boba Fett is obviously like this legendary character. He says like three lines the entire thing. Gets eaten quickly. by the Sarlacc like a bitch and just goes out, you know, he's literally on the screen for like 10 minutes or something like that.
00:31:58
Speaker
But this whole you know, ah mythology develops around this character, voted consistently, you know, behind like Darth Vader, like the best character in Star Wars of all time.
00:32:09
Speaker
Awesome. So people are like, okay, so everybody loves this character. So what we need to do is give this character its own show, its own TV series and really let them shine. And,
00:32:22
Speaker
Tamura Morrison, God love him, like just sp falls completely flat. And by the end of that, I'm like, I am done with Boba Fett. And by the end of Asks vs. Evil Dead, I'm like, I'm done with Bruce Campbell.
00:32:36
Speaker
Because he, you know, hit all his one-liners, his kind of cheesy, cheesy dialogue. That all works, but it works in moderation. When you start trying to flesh him out into a the real...
00:32:51
Speaker
character it just doesn't work and I hate to say it but I don't think Bruce Campbell has the range to to kind of make that character three-dimensional it does literally feel like they cut out a comic book character and just stuck him in between yeah some kind of hard-working but fairly nondescript supporting characters so it yeah I'm the same as you kind of left a bit of a I was like oh I don't really like this character as much as I thought I know I Yeah, and I think that's part of the problem.
00:33:23
Speaker
um Apparently it was going to go on for longer than three seasons, but supposedly, like, literally nobody watched it while it was on. But then record numbers of people downloaded it illegally.
00:33:37
Speaker
So, like, those figures don't show up on the the official B-Encounter's radars. So they were like, oh, we're going cancel it. Yeah, because I think, like,
00:33:48
Speaker
and this kind of top whack it it wasn't even hitting kind of 200 000 viewers per episode which is kind of very in line with like a kind of cult uh franchise which i guess is um this kind of is as an aside if people are sitting there wondering but james where can i see Bruce Campbell do some actually like pretty good acting in a film that's adjacent to Evil Dead, i would say and see Baba Hotep.
00:34:18
Speaker
and Yes. This is on Amazon Prime. And it's so good. It is. It's fantastic. But, to I mean, this could have gone on longer, like because it is kind of like an X-rated version of Buffy in a way, once it settles into its groove, yeah with like the demon of the week. and yeah yeah yeah you know There's always an overarching like big bad, and I quite like the sort of way some of them look. There's Lucy Liu's character.
00:34:46
Speaker
who is like the dark one or one of the dark ones. Yeah, she's like this anti-hero kind of thing. And she she she has a lot of fun with the role, to be fair. Oh, yeah, totally.
00:34:57
Speaker
And then I really like that demon. I don't remember what it's called, but it's like it's got like a very prominent mouth, but all of it is vibrating but apart from the mouth. It's the other one I'm talking about. It's like slightly purple looking.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, is it? It's not Baal, is it? Could be, could be. and what yeah That just looks really cool. yeah And that episode in the in the in the um hospital where um they've got him convinced that Ash is like a maniac who's imagined everything.
00:35:36
Speaker
yeah And he faces the facts of his existence. that That bit's really good. That episode's really good. It is good, but it kind of feels a bit out of the step with what the series is going for.
00:35:51
Speaker
Like another one for me, so where I kind of struggled with, I think it was a season two arc where Ash returns home and everyone calls him, is it Slashy? Ash is Slashy.
00:36:03
Speaker
And it was just all a bit kind of like, okay, I don't really need this. I don't really move anything. Yeah, it was just like, it's exploring a part of Ash's character like I don't know it's like I don't think people would be people would be worried that like oh he was the one that killed all the people in the cabin like I yeah and I think okay so here here for me is I think what this boils down to I think by opening the world up in some ways it kind of it definitely kind of there's not as much tension not as much horror
00:36:40
Speaker
m and I think it works for the comedy but if we're talking about i think it's a decent series but if we if we're talking about is it a good evil dead series then I would tend to be a bit more damning but I just yeah I just feel like it yeah opens itself up in play and and explores avenues I'm not necessarily like like all the stuff you said like demon of the week all that stuff yeah very much into that but all the all the Yeah, some of the more comedic elements, some of the kind of side quests that Ash goes on, yeah, isn't isn't isn't really for but my sophisticated taste particularly. No.
00:37:22
Speaker
I mean, I do think that the sort of arc at the end of season one where they end up back in the cabin, that bit's wicked. Yes, that episode is very, to be fair, you have me there. That episode or one or two, ah however long it was, that was very good. Yeah, I agree.
00:37:38
Speaker
really good. But ultimately, it was cancelled. um And it's weird, because at the end of Season 3... they kind of go back to the alternate ending of army of darkness.
00:37:49
Speaker
And it's like, it would have set up like a post-apocalyptic season four, which let's face it probably never would have happened. And that's why they stuck it in there because they knew they were cooked.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, yeah, this, this fourth season is going to be so huge budget and over the top. And we're only going to give you a glimpse of it. And Oh dear, something, something piracy.
00:38:10
Speaker
We're done. Yeah. And I, got and I'm probably giving them a lot more benefit than they deserve, but maybe it was like, oh, we'll set this up. So if we can't do with a TV series, at least we can do like an army of darkness too. obviously that and then happened never will happen.
00:38:27
Speaker
It's done. It's done. Okay. Okay. um So that brings us onto third episode.
Evil Dead Rise: New Directions and Challenges
00:38:39
Speaker
ah person in the ring thing. yeah ah Evil Dead Rise from 2023, which you only saw for the first time recently, right?
00:38:50
Speaker
I did, yeah. So I, yeah, this this was an odd one because i would call myself a fairly big Evil Dead fan.
00:39:01
Speaker
But as I said, the first time I saw the the reboot, whatever you want to call it, bit arms folded, a little bit huffy about it. liked the series enough, but ultimately fell a bit short for me.
00:39:15
Speaker
And then when we were kind of prepping for this episode, re-watched the Evil Dead reboot, and I was like, okay, I quite like this. And then I was like, with Evil Dead Rise, I'm like, I'm under...
00:39:27
Speaker
I feel like it's it's in new territory. I think even just there's something about the title Evil Dead Rise, which just makes me think it's just like this is almost kind of a clean break. Like they they want you to know or they expect you to know a little bit about what the series is about. But this is kind of the first time that i really feel like Evil Dead is going in its own direction. So obviously kind of watching that for the first time.
00:39:54
Speaker
I was a bit maybe apprehensive because I was like, you know, I'm i'm very much and not a fan of change. So, ah you know, if I'm like, oh, my beloved franchise, if they ruin this, this will be it and it'll be another Star Wars. Which i can I can happily say it isn't. I think it's one of those, when I saw it, I thought, oh, this is good. i probably won't watch it again. But now actually I've been thinking about it quite a lot and thinking about a lot of the imagery a lot of the themes and stuff. I'm like, you know what, I need to ah need to go back to that. And I think, I don't want to kind of ruin my final thoughts too much, but I think that kind of, almost like an episodic film where it's like, you know, you want people in different locations dealing with this threat in various different different ways. That's where I want the franchise to go. And I think, or I'm hoping with Evil Dead's
00:40:48
Speaker
burn um i'm hoping that that's the way they'll go you know i want to see people running around a jungle and then there'll be dead eyes but in this one um free will dead rise it's although there's an excellent bit at the beginning where it's set in a cabin in the woods it looks strangely like the the midsummer cabin but there we go um there predominantly it takes place on like a dilapidated housing estate which i think that's kind of the the kind of the bravest move, if you like, taking it away from the kind of claustrophobia of the cabin.
00:41:23
Speaker
I think it works. And I think this film is, i would say, the best of this. These these three competitors, this is the one who is, you know, who can do the Stone Cold stunner on a whim.
00:41:42
Speaker
Like, this is the best one, I think. Oh, not. Do you know that this was originally intended as a straight to streaming film? ah Yeah, I mean, it tell it doesn't surprise me. And actually, thinking about this, quite it's kind of a wonder that a lot of them weren't.
00:42:03
Speaker
Like Army of Darkness, that should not be a theatrical release. Yeah, but that was a different time. That's true. It was a different time. but And I guess, to be fair, yeah, I mean, straight going straight to streaming is, is um yeah, that that can be that can be a good thing and actually is a good to thing quite a lot. all the ah did Do you know like what and channel where it was going to? or what Oh, it was straight to HBO Max.
00:42:30
Speaker
It was literally made for that. And then I think... there was like a gap in the schedule and they were like, what we got? It was like, well, this thing we've got that we made, let's bring out the cinema.
00:42:40
Speaker
and And that was it. Which again, weird. When you think about like Evil Dead 1 made, well, 2013 remake made, you know, nearly a hundred million.
00:42:51
Speaker
And it was like, oh, the next one's just going to go straight to streaming. It's a decision like years later too. so this one made a hundred and forty five million But doesn't this feel... i mean, have you ever seen, like, the Demons films from the 80s?
00:43:09
Speaker
Do you know what? Funnily enough, it's on my list. Because I was told it was, like, a zombie film, but they're not called zombies. so No. But it's on my list. But no, I haven't seen it yet. Okay, so this feels massively influenced by Demons 2 and Wreck.
00:43:26
Speaker
And...
00:43:29
Speaker
It's refreshing not to have it in the cabin. Agreed. But I feel like they don't do very much with the setting, really. You know, there's like that bit in the lift, which is cool.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yes. And the bit where... That's about it. Yeah. When there's that earthquake and then you it goes in the underground crypt or whatever. Yeah. But I know what you mean. It's like the whole thing with the first film is is every inch of that cabin like tells a story, whereas this kind of...
00:43:58
Speaker
stuff yeah and of And it kind of raises more questions because you're like, you know, there's this undead woman chasing people around and it's like, yeah, someone would have called the police by now. And I know like there's like an onlooker that gets killed and stuff. But like, I'm like, generally speaking, like someone would find out very quickly that this happened. So, yeah.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. um I mean,
00:44:24
Speaker
Like, again, the tone is very similar to like the 2013 movie. Yes. And I do think that this is a film that wisely knows Evil Dead 2 is the best Evil Dead film because it keeps homage in it to the point where it's like almost, okay, enough is enough.
00:44:42
Speaker
know Yeah. I did enjoy on the pizza box it says Henrietta's Pizza. I was like, ah I know that character. I get that reference. Yeah, I think someone says, i think she says, the big bad says, I'll swallow your soul at some point.
00:44:59
Speaker
That's it. And the eyeball moment. the eyeball moment Although ah felt like the eyeball moment was kind of shit because it's like you just blatantly just ripping off your own franchise. but Yeah.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah. And um I mean, there are some creepy scenes. Like, did you like the bit with the door peephole with the mum outside with creepy eyes? Yes, I did. However, there are two things with that one. So and with the kind of, I guess it would be the scariest part of the film.
00:45:31
Speaker
um it was ruined by the trailers where the kids looking outside and then the mum disappears and then she kind of pops up and stuff. So the trailer did ruin that for me. But what i did like, and was quite unexpected is that awesome shot where you see like all the neighbours have come out, see what the noise is. And then the mum just goes around and like just bodies everyone.
00:45:54
Speaker
Yeah. And it's it's done pretty smartly because you can see, you know, they didn't have the budget. to do like a big old action scene. So you can just kind of see things happening in and out of the frame and stuff. So that for me was actually probably the the highlight of the film.
00:46:09
Speaker
and But yeah, I thought Yeah, definitely the, um, yeah, the eye hole stuff that weirdly the bit where she's cooking those rotten eggs that actually made me feel a bit. data And there is a whole kind of pregnancy through line, which kind of doesn't always, doesn't always hit. I think that central, okay. So for me, the characters are probably, although the mum is incredible,
00:46:39
Speaker
Uh, the, the sister is, um, okay, but those children, I've never wanted three children to die as quickly as though those are some ignorant, annoying to, and I wanted, I wanted that book to just get up and just ah like drop kit them.
00:47:00
Speaker
It was so annoying. The cheese griller. Do you know what? The bit with the cheese griller. It was okay because She only did like two or three grates, so you were a bit like... But it wasn't... Oh, that looks a bit nasty.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, was a bit like, oh, yeah, wouldn't want that on ah on a Sunday morning. But it wasn't like... Just the one grate, yeah. Yeah, if if she had it done a bit more, maybe there wasn't a budget for more than two grates. No.
00:47:27
Speaker
See, I'm pretty sure I've cheese grated myself at some point in my life, and it didn't hurt that much. no that's the thing. And like you know it's not that bad when... like wrestlers have it ah which is quite well yeah they have it as like a weapon it's like oh i'm getting cheese it's not it's not actually that bad would i want to be cheese grated continuously probably not but it's not you know it's not it's not like a primal no fear like you know our ancestors weren't like oh watch out for the sleeping tiger but also cheese graters i guess i weren't invented but
00:48:02
Speaker
But look, who's to say that that they were or weren't? So... But I think, again, in this film, I have to say, the monster's final form, disappointing again. yeah Yes, yeah. jumble of limbs.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah just the way that jumble of limbs just kind of goes out as well in that um meat grinder thing. Like, it it was just very obvious that it just wasn't that kind of graphic.
Continuity and Future of the Franchise
00:48:31
Speaker
One issue I do have is I'm trying to work out the woman appears at the end and gets possessed in a car park, which then when you link it back to the beginning, so I'll be saying that this woman was possessed, drove presumably like a normal driver to this cabin.
00:48:57
Speaker
And then like it hibernated. Like what did it, what did it do? Possesses her, but I'm like, okay. She then went and I think picked up a friend and then went to the cabin. But then it's like, wouldn't the demon like attack them in the car?
00:49:12
Speaker
but Yeah. I just didn't, I didn't like that. Yeah. I don't know. um so you now it's got you thinking about it you're not going to be to sleep for weeks now. That's going to haunt you. But that's the thing on that point.
00:49:27
Speaker
like I feel like out of these three that we're talking about, this is actually the least rewatchable.
00:49:35
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it's got less kind of ah those kind of action-y moments that... um i just like I watched it the first time in the cinema and I was like, okay, yeah, that was a solid three-star movie.
00:49:50
Speaker
Watched it again and i was like, actually, I'm not sure I like this. Yeah, I think it tries in a weird way maybe to be like elevated horror. Like I say, there's this whole subplot about, you know, these sisters and it kind of hints that they've been estranged for a while, but doesn't really say why. And then there's a whole thing where the main character is pregnant.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a whole, all this pregnancy after birth imagery. And so I feel like it's, trying to say something, but also it can't get away from the fact that it is just an Evil Dead film. We just want to see people just chop up their nights with an axe. Like, ultimately, that's what we're that's what we're here for. I don't know. Usually it's weird because usually i would be the same as you and I'd be like, I don't want to watch this again. Like, it doesn't add anything. But as I say, I think...
00:50:47
Speaker
it tries to do something different, although on the surface it maybe doesn't cause as much of a ripple or it's it it's more a ripple than a wave. But I think it's definitely for the future of the franchise, I definitely think ah that this self-contained story, there's no...
00:51:04
Speaker
Okay, there's lots of references to Evil Dead 2, but there's no, you know, Ash doesn't appear. no Stuff like this. So it's just its own self-contained story in a universe that love. So I'm like, if we can just do that and just hone it a little bit more, get story a bit tighter, characters a bit more memorable. Yeah. And I think i think i think the future could be could be bright wow ah for Evil Dead, maybe.
00:51:28
Speaker
Maybe. But anyway, this is what we have to go on at the moment. We've got these three. We have to decide who pins who to be crowned the winner.
00:51:40
Speaker
Now, having gone through this with you, I was very much like I had one opinion going into it. Now I have changed my opinion and I have a very clear idea of who pins who.
00:51:56
Speaker
Okay, how do we do this? I don't really know.
00:52:03
Speaker
right, I'll tell you what. You say... all right, let's start. What do you think is the worst out of these three? I think the worst has to be the TV series.
00:52:19
Speaker
Shit. You're going to say Evil Dead Rise, aren't you? Yeah.
00:52:25
Speaker
and then the So you think the pinner should be the the original? No, I think it should be the TV show. I think the TV show wins it.
00:52:36
Speaker
Oh, God. Let's call it off. like It's all kayfabe. It's all fake. We're done. ah Well, there is a way out of this. But anyway, ah still state your point on why you think...
00:52:53
Speaker
What think the best? so like got her I've got to say Evil Dead Rise, to be honest. Let me ask you a question, though. Because you have been guilty of this in the past. On previous episodes, many times. Oh, I like this. yeah Is this recency bias?
00:53:12
Speaker
Because you watched this the most recently. I mean, there's always an element of that. Although I did see it the day after i saw the remake again. okay And I still think it's stronger than the remake. As I say, is it
00:53:34
Speaker
I do think it's the best of the ah kind of new breed. I'd say for me, it tries to take the series in a direction that hasn't gone before without completely screwing up what has gone before. So I think it's more...
00:53:52
Speaker
what Evil Dead Rise, nearly tapped my fingers. it's um It's more what Evil Dead Rise represents and the hope for the future rather than, it's a good film. It's not going anywhere near my top 200.
00:54:08
Speaker
two hundred No. you know, insert arbitrary number here. But I think it's, I think a lot, I think its legacy will depend on how good Evil Dead's Burn is. If Evil Dead Burn turns out to be a mini masterpiece, I think we will look at Evil Dead Rise as this was the beginning of the kind of... the the passing of the baton, but, you know, them doing it properly, not just like Scream, just getting the legacy characters back. Like, this is sort of a new generation, old franchise, but for new fans, but also the oldies, which I now count myself as, enjoy it as well. So it's not it's not necessarily...
00:54:49
Speaker
I mean, probably the first film ah is is better, but I think... Yeah, time will tell on this one, but I think Evil Dead Rise, just for what it represents... and But then, okay...
00:55:04
Speaker
I'll tell you what, the reason I've got Ash vs. Evil Dead as number one is because in talking about it and re-watching it, yes, it is too much of a good thing, but that good thing is a good thing.
00:55:17
Speaker
And, you know, it has that spirit of Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. And... more importantly, a sense of fun.
00:55:29
Speaker
I don't think Evil Dead or Evil Dead Rise are fun, necessarily. They're kind of... I don't know. I think they're trying too hard to be shocking.
00:55:43
Speaker
Yeah. You know, which sort of, to me, isn't really fun. Especially at this age now. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I think that might be part of it as well. When I was younger...
00:55:57
Speaker
like, yeah, the kind of schlockiness of the original trilogy kind of really appealed. And not that it it doesn't now, but it's, yeah, I mean, I guess the Evil Dead 2013 does try some form of humour at the near the end.
00:56:17
Speaker
Um,
00:56:21
Speaker
God, think this is going to be a horrible World War I-esque impasse. I mean, guess... Not really. We can just say our goodbyes and go and not even declare a winner. It doesn't have to be unpleasant.
00:56:34
Speaker
we We just turn all the stadium lights off and the rest of us are like, dude, what the fuck? I just walk out and leave this recorded. ah Yeah. This records just forever.
00:56:44
Speaker
I mean, the reason... The reason I didn't like Ash vs. Evil Dead... as much was, I guess. Yeah, because it it was goofy. It was silly.
00:57:00
Speaker
and it was in the spirit of the originals. But yeah, it just felt a bit too much of a throwback a bit like when you're drunk and uncle's like, Oh, do you remember when you were nine and you pooed yourself the living room? It's like, yeah, I did. But you know, yeah, maybe it was funny back then. But I'm a grown adult now. And I'm a bit like, Hmm.
00:57:19
Speaker
God, need to come up with better analogies. But, um yeah. ah i Anyway, it's not even that I dislike the TV series. I just don't overly like it Okay, oh I will accept Ash vs. Evil Dead winning if it pins the original ah ah the original is you know You know what i mean. The 2013 remake.
00:57:49
Speaker
I'll accept that. I've got no problem with that. So, okay. So what you're saying is, in terms of a ranking, Ash vs. Evil Dead comes top.
00:58:00
Speaker
Evil Dead Rise is not the loser per se, but it's ranked second, whereas the pinned one is 2013 Evil Dead. You know what? I'm going to say, yeah, okay, because Evil Dead 2013 and Evil Dead Rise, they're interchangeable for me. So on different days, yeah when I saw Evil Dead Rise, I did think it was better than Evil Dead 2013. It was only on a second viewing. I was like, oh, I kind of know.
00:58:23
Speaker
so I can live with that. I can walk away a happy man with... Ash vs. Evil Dead pinning Evil Dead 2013 to declare that Ash vs. Evil Dead is the best in the modern Evil Dead saga.
00:58:41
Speaker
Boom. And it says a lot about us that you have gone for the winner, whereas I've gone for the one that's not the loser, but isn't the winner. It's been like, oh yeah, just they're just about...
00:58:56
Speaker
They haven't evidence pinned. They haven't been pinned. They're just they' just the just having a great time. Everybody wins. Everybody wins, apart from 2013 Evil Dead. But yes, everyone is a winner enough in our world.
00:59:10
Speaker
Exactly. So, I mean, the current status of the franchise, anyway. Bruce Campbell has said he's Don playing Ash, but apparently there are two new Evil Dead films in development. One is Evil Dead Burn, which you've mentioned previously.
00:59:23
Speaker
from director Sebastian Vanacek and another is from Francis Galupi and I don't know who he is. And if I were a betting man, I would say that Bruce Campbell pops up in at least one of these. Oh, he... They just won't be able to resist.
00:59:39
Speaker
No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. But that's where we leave the franchise for now. And funnily enough, Evil Dead Rise is the only... film where he doesn't make an appearance or any evil dead related media is he not in it at all isn't there a voice cameo in evil dead rise yeah there is to be fair yeah he's on the recording do i count that no that's a debate for another day and yeah the answer's no yeah All right, so that pretty much does it apart from one good thing we've been doing in this world of horror, which somehow in the last four days has gotten even worse.
01:00:18
Speaker
um So one good thing from the last week, James. what have you got? um I have been ah back on the... The the they crack. The crack and the crack. Mainly the crack, but... Back on the crack!
01:00:35
Speaker
Once I...
01:00:38
Speaker
I am back on the crack. He's on the crack. He's on the crack. and But when I'm not doing crack, I have been, yeah, back in the ah dating game and not completely hating it. And also two things, also just carrying on painting my Warhammer and...
01:01:02
Speaker
Actually enjoying it as a hobby rather than just sir I want to do this to see if I like it. I now can confirm I like it. And Chris will be, John will be painting his tank around my house at some point.
01:01:14
Speaker
And is that a euphemism? You'll just have to find out. Earthshaker is coming, I keep telling you.
01:01:22
Speaker
No, it's great stuff. There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. The Earthshaker, that's it. Funnily enough, you don't have to keep this in, but when I went to the Warhammer shop, because you have to you give a like a little booklet over, and if you get if you've done certain things, like, oh, you've collected this army or read about this army, you get little stamps, and if you get enough stamps, they give you like free shit, like a carry case, paintbrushes and stuff. yeah Every section, I was like, I fucking own this.
01:01:52
Speaker
and like i was like, I'm going to get all the free shit. and Every section, he was like, have you got an earth shaker? and I was like... ah No, I haven't. it's like Oh, that's a shame. well You can't get this free thing. Have you got an Earthshaker? And I was like, fuck that. No, I haven't. I just said in the first one, I haven't got a fucking Earthshaker. I saw you.
01:02:12
Speaker
ah I'm just going to get Earthshaker and i'm going to march down there and just get through the door. And the John Cena music plays.
01:02:24
Speaker
All right. So that sounds like two good things. Well, you've had a bonanza of a week, haven't you? I'm high on life and crack. Amazing. Three good things. So um my one good thing is owning a Labradoodle.
01:02:40
Speaker
And walking her around at night to find the hidden treasures of summer night time, such as toads and dead rats and things creeping in the darkness that scare the shit out of her that she then won't move.
01:02:55
Speaker
Genuinely envious of you with that, yes. Oh, you? The dog bit or the walking around? Maybe the dog bit. But even being scared with your dog.
01:03:06
Speaker
Could do without the Eldritch Horrors, but the dog is great. Eldritch Horrors, Watford, you know. exactly Exactly. Like Ebon Chips. Exactly.
01:03:19
Speaker
All right. That's going to do it for this episode. We'll be back. I don't know when. um But you can follow us on bluesky mediamegarumble.bsky.social or on threads and Instagram at mediamegarumble. So take care of yourselves we'll speak to you soon.
01:03:38
Speaker
bye bye