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00:00:01
Fresh Part 1
11 Plays10 months ago
In part 1 of our discussion of the Hulu movie Fresh we explore the themes of consumption, dating in the modern age, and gender dynamics. Join us as we discuss how these topics show up in film and real life.
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Transcript
Humor in Film: A Tool for Realism
00:00:00
Speaker
I think the funny thing is about like the music and like the puns and all of that is that it's like a pretty outlandish movie, but that makes it feel so much more real because like humans make jokes. like We don't go about our business, and like not even when things are bad. right like We are like constantly making things into jokes. and so I think that if he took it like unbelievably seriously, it would kind of like suck you out of it almost. like I actually appreciated the kind of like lighthearted bits that were brought into this cannibalism ring situation.
Podcast Introduction and Engagement
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to What Haunts You, a podcast about the stories that haunt our dreams. I'm Carly. And I'm Katie. If you like what you hear, please come over and follow us on Instagram at what haunts you pod and tap the bell to get notified
Appreciation of 'Fresh': Horror and Humor Blend
00:01:02
Speaker
on Spotify. When we release a new episode today, we are talking about the Hulu movie fresh. I think it's a Hulu movie. I think Hulu like actually made it and not oh like that it just. came on there, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to look that up right now. I just said it. Fact checkers get to it. but yeah but but I really liked this movie. um and This is one that you you suggested to me, which was fun yeah because i it's fun to hear what you end up finding. and
00:01:36
Speaker
You were definitely right that I would like it. You were telling me to watch it for a very long time, and I'm not good at doing that. So it took a while. But then as soon as I did it, I was like, oh, yeah, we definitely need to talk about this. Yeah, it's another original film from Hulu that I just kind of found randomly the same way I did ah with Clock. I like they're putting out good content, especially horror-related content. I would agree.
Film's Musical Elements and Unique Vibe
00:02:00
Speaker
and This movie was just so fun. You know what I mean? like it's It's serious, but it like doesn't take itself so seriously. and it was It was just so much fun to watch. The plot is unbelievable. It's like a really straightforward story, but like the little the little details are just so great. i mean Obviously, we'll get into all of that, but just I had so much fun watching this movie.
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, I had a lot of fun with it too, even the second time and I think a lot of the fun, I mean, there's like fun camera angles and stuff like that and there's like some cool lighting but I think the music is a big part of what makes it like silly and kind of feel esoteric and not like normal really and like yeah and and I mean like times when they're like making puns about eating breasts and like okay we're yeah and
00:02:55
Speaker
But I learned a new word while looking up stuff about the music today, which I think is said, diegetic might be diegetic. But it means that the music is ah you're supposed to believe that the characters can hear the music as well. It's not just like that. Yeah. And ah in the movie, the music supervisor said that at least half of the mood music is diegetic or diegetic. Yeah, that makes sense because they're like dancing to it or singing to it or chopping up body parts to it. that the And that just truly delightful meat packing montage that was probably my favorite scene in the entire movie.
Cinematic Comparisons: 'Fresh' and 'American Psycho'
00:03:40
Speaker
It was just so funny. I like that a lot too. And it also it immediately gave me American psycho vibes that scene specifically.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah, because he's just vibing. He's just like going about his business in this kind of like mundane way. And the like upbeat 80s music. Totally, totally. Well, and I think the funny thing is about like the music and like the puns and all of that is that it's like a pretty outlandish movie, but that makes it feel so much more real because like humans make jokes like we don't go about our business and like not even when things are bad, right? Like we are yeah constantly making things into jokes. And so I think that if he took it like unbelievably seriously, it would kind of like suck you out of it almost like I actually appreciated the
00:04:30
Speaker
kind of like lighthearted bits that were brought into this cannibalism ring situation.
Themes of Consumption and Modern Dating
00:04:37
Speaker
I agree. I also like when they did like the montage flashes, there's a few of them where they show the men unpacking the meat and like smelling the women's clothes and looking at their pictures and stuff. And there's sometimes where they flash like, there's like one longer scene where it shows them for a little bit longer and then there's like, a lot of them where it just kind of like flashes to them in between the main scene, I guess.
00:05:05
Speaker
o And I thought that was really interesting. I don't remember, I probably have it in my notes that I'll come back to, you but there's like specific times when it happens where, I mean, I think a big theme of the movie overall is just like consumption and how modern dating is just kind of like treating people as disposable and using their bodies and then like not caring for them. Right. And I mean, I think the the kind of like core of the story, right, is like that modern dating eats you alive, right? Like that's what's happening kind of like on its face, which is a fun, a fun little thing. Yeah, I kept thinking of the phrase meat market related to dating.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's it opens on a like a really bad date and then she like thinks I mean, what's his name? His name is Chad, which I think is the most perfect thing. ah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that but what's the main guy's name? Steve. Well, I don't know. is that yeah does he have Does he use a fake name though? I kind of forgot. He does. Yeah, he uses a fake name, but steve I think it is Steve. Steve, I think, is like the epitome of like too good to be true. Everything seems like great at first, and then it's obviously not. but
00:06:34
Speaker
with Chad I think like the comparison of those two guys it's like the first date is awful and like not what she wants but he like doesn't really get it and
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah, we can go into that more. but the But then Steve is like everything that she thinks she wants. And he's like ultimately a serial killer. Yeah, it's very encouraging movie to say
Dating Dynamics and Male Attitudes: An Analysis
00:07:01
Speaker
the least. But and yeah yeah, but yeah, so when she's on the date with Chad, he's like such a typical just dude, right? like He's just such a typical guy. He's like sitting there talking with her about how she would just look so pretty if she would just like wear a dress, right? And like our generation doesn't care about being feminine and all that like all this stuff. He's like shitty to the staff at the restaurant. He's just like the epitome of but dating men like why dating men sucks so much.
00:07:33
Speaker
And then his scarf like drags through his food slowly. That was so cringe. i know And then he, ah he like asks her, he, I mean, I don't, I don't really have a problem with he, she's like texting her friend before she goes in and says that he said that the place was cash only, which I don't have a problem with that, but I feel like it's something that should have been said, like not directly before you're going to dinner. Like it should have been more in advance. Yeah. Or like, maybe don't choose a cash only place. Right. I mean, also just like, right. the The implication of like, don't expect me to pay for you is such a weird thing about dating where like, I feel like you don't have to expect that, but it's just like weird to be like, you have not even met this person and you're just like, don't expect me to buy you dinner. Like, I don't know. It's just like a little bit weird and like, yeah.
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It just kind of like, it I like understand why it was bad. And I also am like never been one to like really care if someone buys me dinner, but I like also would have been put off by a message like that as I was like walking into the restaurant. Right. Yeah. And then after like saying that she's going to pay for her food basically, then he's like, oh, my brother's in town. Can I just take this and just like doesn't wait for her to respond and proceeds to take all of the food. Yeah, he like packs up her leftovers and it's like, I'm just going to take this home with me. It's just like, what the hell? And something I don't remember seeing the first time, but the second time I definitely noticed was as they're walking out of the restaurant, there's like a close up on them in the kitchen chopping meat.
Unique Take on Cannibalism in 'Fresh'
00:09:24
Speaker
Mm hmm. That's like, I don't know. I was also thinking a lot about Texas Chainsaw Massacre while watching this this time and just like how meat consumption is questionable. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it is interesting because this is such a like such a different way of conceptualizing cannibalism. You know me, I love a good cannibalism story. Like if it has cannibalism, I'm probably going to like it. And It's so interesting because right Texas Chainsaw is this like disenfranchised family who used to work in meat packing and was kind of like modernized out of their jobs and they are trying to feed their... I mean, obviously it gets turned into like they're kind of just violent and terrible, but
00:10:08
Speaker
and It is like the kind of origin story of it, right, is like we can't really afford to feed our family. And then there's this flip side of cannibalism, like the other version of the cannibalism story, which is I like like very wealthy people who can have anything in the world want this and will pay like huge sums of money to get it. You know what I mean? And I think that those are really interesting counterparts to each other. And those are kind of like the two general ways that those that cannibalism stories will go. Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. thing And then so she, he says like, we should do this again sometime. And she's like, I don't think we're a match. And then he says, good luck finding a guy you stuck up bitch. And I think like every woman has had this experience of like a man coming onto them super strong. And when you turn them down, they're like, I didn't even want you anyway.
00:11:00
Speaker
it's Totally, totally. Yes, it's like because then they're like you like then they call you a bitch. They call you ugly. They call it like they call you whatever they can think of. And it's just and and he even I think says like I was just being polite and it's like, no, you like when when at what point in this date were you polite? Right. I didn't see any point of you being polite. Yeah. Yeah. The second time watching this, so like when she leaves the date, she's walking to her car and she's parked in kind of like a back alley that's like dark. And I, I was kind of like, I don't know if I would have parked there in the first place, but I guess sometimes you have to. And she's walking with her keys and her fist, like stuck out through her fist as social use them as a weapon. And it looks like somebody is following her and we eventually
00:11:50
Speaker
see after she drops her keys and there's like this really scary moment where it seems like she's going to be attacked but it's a dad and a baby. I was thinking a lot this time about like how feeling unsafe and like when do we know if we're safe and like the cues that make men feel safe to me like like the baby makes it be like okay you're probably not going to attack me because you have a baby yeah but that's like not even necessarily true Yeah.
Safety in Dating: Societal Cues and Practices
00:12:20
Speaker
Oh my God. i like I'm thinking of so many stories of like couples who kill people together or like people using their children. as like ah people like People do crazy shit. You just like never know. and I think that that is a big kind of reason this movie is so interesting. right is like it It's framing her as someone who is
00:12:39
Speaker
Like, relatively careful. Yeah, cautious. But then, interestingly, right like she meets this guy and she kind of throws caution to the wind a little bit. I mean, she brings him back to her house on the first date, which is not a slut shame thing. It's just like a you know like you're taking a risk by bringing a stranger to your house. You never know how that's going to go. And then there's also, like after that, she's like, yeah, I'll go on this trip with you. I'm sorry. I'm not going on a trip with anybody. I'm at one time. It was unclear to me how long it had been. I didn't think it had been one time. I thought it had been like, I mean, it had at at least been two times because they also have another date. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. But like, so just still though, like just this like, I mean, that's one of the things I was thinking about is like, when how long do you wait till you do know it's safe? Like there was I was thinking of this guy who ah I
00:13:32
Speaker
like liked him a lot but I didn't want to get that close to him because everybody had told me that he always sleeps with people and then stops talking to them and I was like okay I'll just like keep talking to him and we like didn't hook up for the longest time I think but maybe like two or three months and then I met his mom he like had me over for dinner and I met his mom and uh and this wasn't a situation where it was unsafe but it's just like the unsavoryness Yeah. Where, like, then I slept with him after that and you he never talked to me again. after Yeah, what is this weird? Multiple months. Yeah, what is the need for conquest that men have, right? like of like Yeah.
00:14:17
Speaker
It's, it's like a weird, yeah, it's very weird. And it's, it's, and I think it's kind of what the movie is about, right? Like, it's like, it's like, how much of you can I get before I'm ready to just kind of call it a day? Right, right. Like, he keeps them alive while he's chopping them up. Right and it's like you can only do that so much and it's like when you are ready to say like okay like I have like taken everything I can take from you so it's time for me to move on. Right yeah instead of stringing somebody along and it's like the basis of the title of the movie fresh like keeping it and and people use that term in relationships too like it's fresh.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely interesting. And I think that, yeah, I mean, I think that is the question, right? Of like, when do you decide decide someone is safe? And I mean, i I would argue that like, you can't ever fully decide that if you are not a man. And and like really, like if you're a man too, to an extent, but I think especially if you're not a man. And I mean, even like i think i like if you look at my last relationship, like I think that's a good example, right? I was never physically unsafe, but like You would think that after a certain amount of time, you could say, like okay, this person is like emotionally safe or this person is like not going to like have been like fucking me over. right and like That was just not the case. Things can get flipped on their head so abruptly and like and so far down the line. like It's really scary. It's a really scary thing.
00:15:51
Speaker
Right. Yeah. One of the things I wrote in my notes is like, uh, I, like whenever I meet men, I'm always looking for cues that make them feel safe. And like one of the things is a wedding ring or a baby and like signs that they're like cared for or attached to somebody that like, I generally I've had better relationships with men who are married because they're like not being creepy most of the time, not that it can't be creepy, but like the way And like you said, like couples couples who kill together, like I definitely, if I see a man with a woman, it makes me feel like they're more safe, which is, I don't know, yeah. It's i think's just annoying. I think statistically it's true. Right. I think like statistically it's true, but like you it's still not 100, nothing is 100% ever. But also that's true if you go on a date with a woman like and nothing is 100%.
00:16:46
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's, it's interesting, though. And I think, I don't know, I felt like even though they only showed her go on one date, and then they had the brief flash of like her trying to be on the dating app, she gets the like unsolicited dick pic. It just felt like they they summed up a lot of very real stuff in like a pretty short amount of time, and I thought that was really, really effective. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the dick pic happens, and then she goes to the grocery store.
Building Trust: Risks and Dynamics
00:17:11
Speaker
and When we're in the grocery store, that's like the first bright light. It was actually pretty shocking to me. It kind of like hurt my eyes because it had been pretty dark up until that point.
00:17:20
Speaker
and most of the rest of the movie is pretty dark but I think that it's like he is her like ray of light there where she like thinks that things are getting brighter but also there's like still that really fucking weird guy in the grocery store who's like tasting the yogurt or whatever who yeah yeah but it is interesting right I think that Yeah, I think that one of the and one of the reasons that I think you're so hopeful you like you'd be so hopeful is that like, who meets anyone not on dating apps anymore, right? Like that's unless you're meeting someone through friends or whatever. But like, I know very few people who didn't meet on dating apps. And so it's like this idea right of like meeting someone out in the wild.
00:18:06
Speaker
like yeah that like and and And there's this almost like kind of obviously fake sense that like that is somehow going to be more wholesome, that is somehow going to be more safe or whatever you know whatever it is. But there is some kind of lie we tell ourselves that that makes us that makes it somehow different. And at the end of the day, you're going to dinner with a stranger. some i mean yes You know what I mean? Unless you're going on a date with someone you've been friends with for 10 years, which happens, but not that often. Yeah, I think it's also like romanticized a lot to just like
00:18:39
Speaker
randomly meet somebody and fall for each other. That's like seen as much more romantic than definitely online dating, but like also other ways of meeting. And yeah like yeah like you said, it's like not even safer anything. Everyone I've dated who I didn't meet online was like people who I've known since high school or like my fiance I've known since elementary school. Yeah. Yeah. I think that it is, you know, and then and then it becomes different because your first date isn't like now we're strangers, right? It's more, it's more like an exploration of kind of shifting your perspective of that person or like the way you interact instead of I need to find out stuff about this person. I need to find out if we're compatible. Yeah. And I think a lot of why I chose to try to date people I already knew was because I had a lot of
00:19:35
Speaker
not like scary scary but just like gross or disturbing experiences with people online and like definitely a lot of dick pics and I was like I don't want any more fucking dick pics I literally can't even it's it's the most aggravating thing to me and i have like every time it happens, I like say something really direct. I'm always like, would you walk up to someone in a bar and pull your dick out? like is that right Is that appropriate to you, sir? think I don't understand. I just don't.
00:20:08
Speaker
I really don't understand the compulsion to do that. It's like, I'm like, is this just like the adult equivalent of like teenage boys and like the way that they're just drawing penises on everything? Like what is the obsession with penises? I don't get it. I don't get it. Yeah, no, and I've never been excited to get a dick pic. No, never in my life. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then there's also like really calming music playing in the grocery store that I noticed that is like a different scene setting thing. I don't remember what the music was before, but I think it was more like hyped up. And then the guy starts talking to her when they're in the produce and he's talking about cotton candy grapes, which actually are so good.
00:20:55
Speaker
if you haven't tried them. Yeah, they used to be better though. Oh really? Because there was a time when cotton candy grapes actually tasted like cotton candy and they don't anymore. Oh. Now they just taste like a sweet grape and I don't like grapes. I only liked cotton candy grapes and I can't find good ones anymore. I can't imagine. I don't know if I've had ones that actually tasted like cotton candy. I guess a little but but I don't know. i've I've had ones that I really like, but I don't know if you would like them. Probably not. But I i wrote in my notes that like he immediately starts using women to gain trust because he's talking about his niece and his sister. And that's like the same sort of thing as for me like as being like my baby or my wife, except for like obviously you're not going to say those things if you're single and trying to gain romantic interest from someone.
00:21:48
Speaker
Right. and he and And of course, he wasn't either of those things, but she didn't know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he asks, do you live around here? And which like, I don't like that question. I don't know. Like I i just like instinctually will always say no to that. ever I have actually, on my like hinge profile, I would put like ah like and like a neighborhood close to mine that was not actually my neighborhood. Yeah, fair. Because I don't need to be like dating someone who lives super far away and whatever. so like I want it to be reasonably close, but I'm also like, no, I'm not telling you my neighborhood. Right.
00:22:35
Speaker
No, no, no. like and when Right. There's like so many. You just kind of every time when you're deciding if somebody is safe, like there is an eventual time where you have to just kind of take the plunge and see if they're going to be safe or not. Close that drawer, babe. Thanks. I've been the drawer. I left the drawer on my bookcase open. and I've been worrying that the bookcase was going to fall forward this whole time, even though it probably was.
00:23:05
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, like even with people who you do know, they can be unsafe, but definitely more likely with people. Yeah. Well, this is like skipping ahead a tiny bit, but I think that this is like a good example, right? Because they like go on a couple dates. They have like consensual sex, right? Which you would think would be some sort of some sort of turning point. Right of like, well, you've already been in my house and I've already been in a very physically vulnerable position with you and you didn't take advantage of it. Right. But then he still drugs her. And like, I think I said this and it I think I said this and it follows. I know what you did what you were just saying reminded me of it. fall Right. Like that, like the idea to me.
00:23:48
Speaker
of like like waking up drugged by someone you have already have had like you've already had consensual sex with is so scary. like That's so fucking scary to me because if you haven't had sex with them, you'd wake up and be like, oh, I know what happened. Okay. That sucks. That's awful. like I don't mean to minimize that, but just like the idea of like waking up and being like, I already fucked this person. like What are they drugging me for? like What do they have planned? That's just so scary. That's so good that's like next level. to me. Right and I think in this movie it is more of like what you would think of as being the worst thing versus right it follows is like still bad but like the guy is like trying to help her ostensibly. Yeah and you know me like my my whole deal is like I don't want a slow death I think that sounds so terrible like this situation is like something right out of a nightmare for me. I'm just like, I'm going to keep you alive as long as I possibly can. I'm just like, please do not do that. I'm like, please do not do that. like Please just kill me today.
00:24:55
Speaker
I know. yeah Especially because like i mean it seems like he's giving them pain meds at least, but like probably not enough. and i don't know It's just a truly awful situation. Also, like he could have at least gotten some TVs for them or something. I know he gives Noah magazines because he likes her. but yeah Well, and at one point he even says to her, like, like stress is bad for like the meat or whatever. Yes. And it's like, well, you're not creating a particularly stress-free environment, Steve. but Right.
00:25:34
Speaker
Yeah. So they when they go on their first date, she ends up giving him her number in the grocery store and then he doesn't text her for a while and we see like a few scenes of her checking her phone. and she's like hanging out with her friend and like talking about him and like I don't know I think everyone can relate to that situation too where you're like is something gonna happen I kind of like this person are they gonna reach out to me especially if like they're the only one that has your contact information yeah and then he asks her to go on a date
00:26:08
Speaker
I was kind of wondering if he does that with like all of the girls too because ah it does seem like he's sort of romancing Noah in a different way than he usually does.
00:26:21
Speaker
And then he says he's a doctor and that he works in plastic s surgeryge surgery. um and ah and like says a story about like rescuing a kid or something, like something that like obviously everybody's going to be like, that's sweet, that sounds nice. And then he asks about her family, which like also, I don't know if I would feel comfortable giving as much detail as she did. like I don't know, i' maybe I've just watched like Too Much True Crime,
00:26:58
Speaker
and too many murder shows in general, but I feel like somebody asking, it just seems like a clearly, is someone going to notice if you're gone kind of question. I don't know. I could see that, but I think it's also different once you're actually sitting down with someone that you feel like you have chemistry with and I also, I don't know. I do think that it's probably good to emphasize it if your family is not there, that you have other people. But I don't know. I don't think that that's one that makes me feel all that uncomfortable.
00:27:38
Speaker
yeah It depends, you know, and I think I think it's also like on the date with him, right? She starts talking. This is the part that I was like, this is me. But then I was like, oh, wait, this is not me when she's talking about how she just like hates dating. Right. And she just doesn't like going through this process. And I think that that is something that can just make you want to like get through that stuff. Right. You know what I mean? And just be done with that part of it. And that I like definitely can relate to. Like, I think that's something that is so tedious and so exhausting. And she like vocalizes that. And so I think there is a piece of like, oh, like let me just like get through this part so that we can move on. vi you know And I do think that that makes it make more sense in my brain that she was willing to just kind of lay it out there.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah. I also liked seeing the difference between the date with Steve versus the date with Chad. Like they're, they kept zooming in on their eyes and mouths and there was like very low, soft lighting. It seemed like, and you could tell that they were just like both smitten, I guess. Um, and then versus like in the Chinese restaurant, it was like brighter, harsher lighting. And they were like fully zoomed out the whole time. It was very clinical. Yes. And I think like a lot of the zooming on the mouths happens. I think that might have happened a couple of times in the first day too, just because there's so much emphasis on eating in the movie. Yeah. Even before we get to the, oh, we're eating human meat here. Yeah.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely true. Well, and it's interesting because the the other difference is that like I think it is pretty clear that Steve is smitten with her, and I think that ends up being true. like Whatever his intentions were and are, there is something about her that he's drawn to, and he actually does like her, which becomes evident right like as the story plays out that he feels differently about her than he does about the rest of the people, that he is the rest of the women and right that he has taken.
Flipping Horror Tropes: 'Fresh' Perspective
00:29:45
Speaker
And this is actually an interesting thing. I was thinking about this when I watched it, like when I rewatched it to talk about it is like this is like a very flipped on its head horror trope of like normally, like if you have sex, you die. And she's almost like because you guys had sex, like you might get to live, which is an interesting like paradigm shift there. I don't know exactly what I think about that, but it was just something that occurred to me.
00:30:11
Speaker
Well, I think it's like that's one of the ways that women can find power. I thought that was somewhat realistic. Like if you do have a man's sexual interest, you can sometimes use it to manipulate. Like that sounds bad, but like in a, like sometimes if you're in danger, that's a way to keep yourself safe. Yeah, totally. Totally. And, and I think also like i I liked that he had a wife and it looks like he also took her leg at
Role of Steve's Wife in the Cannibalism Ring
00:30:41
Speaker
some point. Maybe she was an amputee for another reason. But I think with the story, it's like pretty likely that
00:30:50
Speaker
She was in a similar position to Noah and ended up getting out of captivity, to be in a different kind of captivity, I guess. And yeah and she's also like definitely a symbol of like women who are not supportive of other women. Right. And the friend, what was the friend's name? Molly at the end is like, you bitches are the problem. Like, you're the one that happens. It's like, yeah, it's like, of course men are the reason it happens. But also, yes, like, right, like those people who just enable this behavior and enable the using and the abusing and just like the the grossness of everything. Right.
00:31:30
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know, like, it was weird to me that the wife was still, and I guess like she was just so in it, but like after knowing that her husband was dead, she was still like, gotta preserve the mate, gotta, we've got customers. And I was like, oh no, I would think that you would be like, the witch is dead. du done ah Right, it's it makes you really curious like what their origin story is and like I actually had like the thought of like Maybe she wanted in and the only way she could get in was by like giving that piece of herself To it. I don't know. I was just very curious. I'm also very curious about like this
00:32:11
Speaker
like this business
Cannibalism Business: Scale and Intricacy Speculation
00:32:12
Speaker
that he's running. And like I'm like, it are you the only... like are you Is this your business? Are you part of a bigger business? like What's the scale of this situation? How much money is actually changing hands? Which there's some reference to. I was wondering that too. Right. There's reference when he feeds her, he's like, oh, this meal is worth whatever i amount. But like- $30,000 for the meatball. Yeah. But we don't have a clear picture of like the scale of this or how complex or intricate like the web of connections is. Like I'm just, I have so many questions. I would love like a prequel to this. Yeah. i mean i um And the funny thing is I probably wouldn't, if they made it, I would probably be like, this is a very good. But like, I'm so curious. There's a lot of stuff. i write Well, because like, he yeah, I think first eats meat when he was like 18. Like how the fuck did that happen? Like, are you just like a psychopath and you killed somebody and ate them? Or like it sounded more like he was
00:33:04
Speaker
introduced to it somehow. Right like there's just and i and I think the movie works super well without this information so this is not like a criticism of the movie even but it definitely yeah like I just was very curious about the rest of the information but I think the movie functions really well with just what we have. Yeah. So there's a few key points where characters look at themselves in the mirror really intensely. And one of them is before Noah's date with Chad, where she's like looking at her teeth and her hair and kind of seems to be noticing like signs of aging. Not like dramatic aging, but just like, I'm not 20 anymore aging.
Mirrors as Symbols of Introspection
00:33:44
Speaker
over and then after they sleep together for the first time in the morning she like gets up to shower or something and there's a mirror above her bed and this is kind of like the first sign that he used creepy is he looks in the mirror looks at himself and is just like staring so intensely and like you see that there's like No life in his eyes and he seems like he is sort of maybe judging himself or like thinking about what he's going to do I think like you said like he does kind of seem like he has genuine feelings already for Noah and so I think he's like Okay, like I have to do this. I need that $30,000 meatball
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it seems like he's having that moment of like, oh, shit, like what did I get myself into? Right. Like this is supposed to be a simple operation and I have now complicated things in a big way. Right. Yeah. And like we find out later that other women he's taken, he hasn't slept with. And except for like if his wife was that was in the same position, I think that it probably went similarly, except for that instead of trying to get out, like she kind of got Stockholm syndrome or something who knows how long she was in there. But it also makes me think of the like, when do you know you're safe kind of thing like even he like, if she went through all of that and became his wife and they have kids together, and then he's like still not satisfied and looking for somebody new. Yeah, yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker
So then Noah's in the shower, she texts her friends says that they had sex. She's like, I want to social media stalk him. And Noah's like, he doesn't have social media. yeah And Molly is like red flag. And I'm like, I agree. Yeah, I'm sorry, you don't have to be like on it all the time, like whatever, you know, what I mean, it's probably best if you're not like, super, super, super on social media, like I know I like can be chronically online, but also like in this day and age, I don't know, man, like, setting off some alarm bells there for me.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, I've dated some people who like weren't really into social media. I don't know if I've ever dated anyone who like legit had no accounts at any point in time. And yeah, I think that is weird. Then we go to another scene where I think they're on another date, but it seems like it's pretty soon after, but I don't think it was the same day. It seems like a little time has passed and they're eating Chinese food at Noah's house. And he's eating what I thought was meat with his hands, and but then he says that she doesn't that he doesn't eat meat when she offers him a beef short rib. Yeah. And then and then she said that he ruined it by like saying that he didn't eat meat and she didn't want to eat it now.
Statements on Meat and Safety Perceptions
00:36:45
Speaker
I was like, that's really weird that he said that he doesn't eat meat. I wonder if he like really does just only eat human meat.
00:36:52
Speaker
I feel like that wouldn't surprise me with like his character. Yeah. But it wasn't. Yeah, it's definitely interesting. And I think, and I kind of wonder, like is that also somehow like an attempt to build some sense of safety as well, right? Of like, oh, I don't like to harm living things. ah Yeah, I could see that. And they start dancing in the living room. That's like their first dance scene, which comes up again later. And then he asks if she's told anyone about him, which like knowing the movie seems kind of sketchy, but that is like a normal question, I guess.
00:37:34
Speaker
And she says that she had told Molly, and they're dancing and there's like really orangey toned light. There's a lot of orange tones all throughout the movie. And red. Yep. So much red. Blood red. Yeah. I'm reading The Shining, so like in my head right now I'm like, red rub.
00:37:58
Speaker
But yeah, it's yeah, so and and and when when they're dancing, it is like, I don't know, like their dates are very sweet. Like they seem to be getting along really well. It really does seem to it seems to be going well. And I will say in another universe, this movie is a love story. Hmm. And she tries the food, and she loves the food, and there are going to be these two fucked up people doing this fucked up shit. like there i like That movie exists in another universe, I swear. I mean, I think that's the him and his wife story. It just doesn't last because he's still looking for something else. I don't know. I don't feel like I have enough info on the wife situation to like read it as that.
00:38:40
Speaker
a I mean, it is like it's like it is a love story to some extent, but we don't know what level was coercion. We don't know. Like we just don't have the info. So I don't know. But I i do think like in the scene where she where he feeds her ah some some people meet, I do think there is like there is another movie to be made where she really likes it. And she is like, oh, shit, this is like amazing. And now I feel conflicted about this. But actually, I have a question for you. If you were going to have to eat people meat and you had no choice, but your only choice was would you rather eat your own people meat or someone else's people meat, what would you choose?
00:39:19
Speaker
definitely my own. and Yeah, that's what I thought too. Because she was like, is this me? And she said she sounded like she was hoping it wasn't almost. And I was like, Oh, I would hope that it was in that situation. Like Jesus Christ. Right. I think that's like the thing with meat, like, I don't know, like, I almost feel like it would be better to eat people than other animals if they if there were people who wanted to give up their meat, because I feel like it would be better if it could be consensual, which is like why I would want to eat my own meat because I could agree to it. Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, that even kind of like that, like makes me think of that one, the German guy who like killed the guy consensually to eat his meat or whatever, and how cannibalism is like not a crime in a lot of places, but like,
00:40:08
Speaker
because assault is a crime and murder is a crime. it like is like you know you How do you do cannibalism without crime? But then there's the guy who ate his foot in tacos with like so a bunch of his friends. What? you know I do not know. You've not heard that story? No. You've not heard that story? Okay. There's a guy who got, I think he got in a motorcycle accident or something. i don't He got in some sort of accident and his foot was like shattered and they were basically like, you're never going to be able to walk again. like You have a couple of different options. like We could try to get your foot to heal, but it's not going to heal correctly. like It won't be usable, or we could like amputate it and get a prosthesis. and He decided
00:40:44
Speaker
um to amputate it and get a prosthesis and um he took the meat home and he invited like some of his friends and like space and he well he didn't like fuck with them he like told them what he was doing and was like i i want to do this like i think this would be an interesting experience there's no real downside to it like i already like i already lost my foot like i'm not like you know what i mean he's like i'm not gonna like cut my other foot off but like you know like this year we have it and he made like foot tacos he made he made tacos with the meat that's so funny that he made tacos also i feel like a foot doesn't have that much meat in it but maybe it does i don't know that's probably why they did tacos because then it could be like dispersed but yeah but yeah like and he had and like his friends ate it too like several of them did it like ate it i'd eat my friend's foot taco good to know if i ever shatter my foot i will
00:41:37
Speaker
I will give you a call. Thanks. I would rather not chatter my foot though just like giving that to me or I would like for that to not happen. Right, right. I sprained my ankle last year. that's i hope that I hope that's the worst injury I ever get. That was a nightmare. Yeah. i Yeah, then he says that they should go away and asks like what the soonest she could go is, which like I also felt like that question was kind of weird. But I don't know. It's like,
Travel Risks with New Acquaintances
00:42:06
Speaker
I don't know. It's there's all of these things that are like, they can be normal, or they can be weird. And that's why it's like so hard to tell. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And the timeline isn't super clear. I, I felt immediately and I think I would have felt this way, regardless of the move, like, like knowing what the movie was about. Like, I just
00:42:25
Speaker
I felt like this is crazy. I'm like, you've met this person only a couple of times. I can't believe you're gonna go potentially be stuck somewhere with them. I wouldn't do that platonically. I think I would do that, but I would not drive in the same car. It would be like, I'll meet you there. I guess. I don't know. And what I really don't like is that he doesn't say where they're going. I would definitely not go on like a, I don't know where we're going. Like, I mean, just cause I have to figure out what I'm going to eat. What am I going to wear? Like what? You can't just take me some random place. Right. I'm like, I need every piece of information you have to plan accordingly. And Molly says this is a straight girl's fantasy coming true. Right. I know, which is so funny. It was like such a, such a good reaction.
00:43:11
Speaker
Yeah, but Molly also like is like, where are you going? And when she's like, I don't know, she's like, that's that's not right. Yeah, Molly has good instincts, which is nice. Like she just is like, she's just on top of it. And, and like, does her little sleuthing work? It doesn't go super duper duper well for her. But like, she, she really gets she really like is not pulling any punches. I mean, she goes to Steve's house, she sees that he's married, he has a whole family, and she's ready to go in there. She's like, you know what? Fuck it. I don't know what's going on. My friend is missing. I'm going to blow this up. I'm just going to go in and see why I'm just going to go talk to these people. I thought she made some poor choices there, though. Especially, I don't know. I don't know if I would have gone in the house. I think she thinks that
00:44:00
Speaker
that the wife is safe and that she's like, maybe you don't know your husband's doing this. But especially when she called Noah's phone while she was inside, I was like, damn, at least wait till you get outside. That's what I was thinking too. Yeah. Yeah. Not good. So then i he says that they're going to something grove. I cottage cottage grove yeah cottage grove i think that's right which even sounds like a fake i know that it's real in the context of the movie but it even just sounds like a fake hallmark town like i don't know like cottage grove
00:44:39
Speaker
Yeah. um And then as they're driving, like they make the drive seem pretty long. It's like zooming in and out of the street, and then in the car, and the music gets like spacey and looping. and And he's like, it's getting pretty late. like Let's just stay the night at my house, which I also was like, why did you not plan this better? I don't know. that I don't like that. I would have already been suspicious. But I guess she already doesn't have service at this point. Yeah. Also, I feel like he could have just like asked her to spend the night at his place because she had spent the night at or he had spent the night at her place several times. So I don't know why he didn't just say come stay over. Because it's easier if people think she's going to be gone for a few days. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It gives him it gives him kind of like a cushion of time where people might be like more okay with not really hearing from her.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah. And then he has like a ridiculously nice house where it's like, okay, I knew you were a doctor, but like, damn, that's a nice house. Yeah. And and she says, kind of disappointing, like joking. yeah She's fun. She's so funny. and then there's like more glowy orange lighting and she's wearing red and he's wearing blue
Arrival at Steve’s Home: Unsettling Details
00:46:02
Speaker
and he says the wi-fi must have gone out which again is like i don't like this i'm already like no and she just like seems chill at peace she's like damn i really made it
00:46:14
Speaker
look at this house i'm doing great i was like fuck she's too won over by him i don't like this then he's making a drink and i was like you don't even want to watch him make that drink Yeah, my my headphones just died, but I think we recorded one time without my headphones. Yeah. Okay. And then she goes up to this painting and almost touches it. And it like, looks like skin. And we find out later that behind that is like where he's hiding all of the women's possessions. And he kind of like distracts her and brings her away from it when she's like about to touch it. And then she's drinking the drink. And he goes, Do you notice any interesting flavors?
00:46:57
Speaker
We're just kind of like, do you taste the poison? Oh, I didn't think it was. Do you taste the poison? I think it was like to get her to take more s sips of it. Yeah, I think that it also was that. Right. Because if you're like, oh, like, can you tell what the secret ingredient is? You're going to like take a sip and like, you know, and then you're going to take another. So you're going to like try like drink it till you figure it out kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the camera was like very zoomed in on her while she's taking sips and then all it would pan to him and be really zoomed out. Yeah. And they did a good job of filming that scene in a way that felt disorienting.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. She says you're all like fancy cocktails and I'm pancakes out of a bag. And I think like that's part of why she's willing to like, let go of some of her cautious nature maybe because she's like, wow, he like really has this stuff together and I don't and like, she just feels like she should go along with it. Yeah. Yeah, like it's an opportunity. Right. And then we see that her vision is sort of graying out and it's like, oh no, I i thought this was going to happen.
Disorienting Atmosphere: Title Screen Placement
00:48:07
Speaker
And then that was all the fucking intro up to that point, half an hour into the movie.
00:48:13
Speaker
Yeah. I remember when I watched it the first time when it got to, because I kind of expected it to just maybe not have the title after a certain point, like have a title screen or to like do the title screen at the end. Like how sometimes, you know what I mean? Like the movie ends and then you've got the title screen. And I just remember being like almost like even more disoriented by the fact that the title screen came up. Because I was like, wait, how long have we been doing this? What's happening? Right. Which I think is cool. Like I actually think it works really well, but it was just funny. I was like this, yeah I'm confused. but Right, it works great. And I also think they could have sped through the intro, like they could have done all of that much shorter, but it is really good that they didn't like it does make you be like, is he sketchy? Am I being unreasonable? it Like it it puts you more like in her actual position. Right. Well, and I think I know before we started recording, I said that this movie does not have that much plot. And I think that I still feel that way. But I think that what it has a lot of is like character.
00:49:12
Speaker
you know what I mean? like it's it's like very It's a very people-driven instead of plot-driven story yeahh because the things that make it interesting and like compelling are these two people's personalities and like how they interact with each other and like the the dynamic that gets established and then obviously that dynamic gets slipped on its head, but then this new dynamic gets established. You know what I mean? like that That's like where the meat of it is, is like less in the pot and more in the people. Meat. Unattentionable but very welcome. and yeah um And then after the title screen, I love the music that starts playing and there's just like this trippy tour of the house and like all of the art and just kind of like showing the opulence and like obviously he makes a lot
Noah's Realization and Turning Point
00:49:56
Speaker
of money. You're just kind of like,
00:49:58
Speaker
hmm what's going on here and and like the credits are going the opening credits and there's like what I wrote in my notes is blood looking shit which i don't even remember
00:50:13
Speaker
nice and then she wakes up on a mattress in the basement she doesn't know where she is and he says how'd you sleep and she's like just kind of disoriented doesn't really know what's happening yet and is still like oh there's the guy like and he says he drugged her and she's like haha you're kidding and then she and we hear her chains rattling and it zooms out and we see she's just like on the floor in a pretty empty room with a red carpet and just a pillow and a blanket and she like starts freaking out and he says I'm gonna tell you what's going on but you can't freak out
00:50:55
Speaker
And she's like, what the fuck? And she starts, like, actually realizing what's happening and starting to freak out more and more. And she's, like, completely calm. OK, so I think we're going to stop this episode here and cover the rest of the movie in a part two. I think on the wall, there's like a mural that I think is like a sunset or beach or something. I don't know. And there's several mirrors on the wall as well, where we see more of people looking in mirrors and examining themselves. And he says, are you going to rape me? And, or she says that. And he's like, no, no, no. And the music is like really slowly descending and so creepy, so good. And then he just like screams to snap her out of it. And then he tells her that he's going to sell her meat and that people pay money for it and that he's going to keep her alive as long as she acts right.
00:51:51
Speaker
and then he says stop being so dramatic like bro what would you who's gonna just be like oh okay that's fine sounds good yeah i think that's just such a man thing to say yep and molly keeps leaving her voicemails and uh and he's like texting back from her phone being like ha having so much fun. See you later. and And we hear a phone call actually between them earlier before she's kidnapped that says where like they say, I love you to each other. And then in the texts, like one of Molly's first hints that something is wrong is that she says, I love you. And I think that fake Noah, Steve texts like a heart back or something. And she's like, she always says, love you. What the hell?
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah. This is a good reason to tell your friends you love them. but Yeah. Hey, Katie. I love you. I love you.
Other Captives: Mental States and Operations
00:52:51
Speaker
And then she hears another girl's voice and she's like, help me. And and she's like, I can't, we're in the same boat. And she's like, ah somebody has to be looking for you. And Penny, the other girl is like, I don't have much family. And she's like, fuck, same. um And then we hear another girl who's like, lost it and is just kind of like singing to herself. um And Noah's like, we got to get out of here. And then Molly, it goes to Molly at work and she's like starting to do some more sleuthing and she's listening to a song. Then one of the lyrics is, I let you take a piece of me. Oh, damn, I don't think I noticed that.
00:53:37
Speaker
And it actually sounded pretty similar to me to the song that Melissa was singing. It kind of went in from like Melissa singing to Molly listening to it. oh um And Steve messages Molly. That's like when the heart I love you happens. and And then Molly image searches a picture that Steve sends and finds that it's from a website. And she's like, okay, something fucking sketchy is happening here. Yeah. Then we have the American Psycho Steve Butchering scene and the song Obsession is playing, which is so good. Yeah. I am so obsessed. like i am I can't even tell you how obsessed I am with that scene. It is so fun. The meet is so fake looking. like it's all so camp It's very campy and just like it's just delightful. He is like dancing around and like playing around and he's just like,
00:54:32
Speaker
It's like in any other, if if he was surrounded by anything else, it would be so cute, but it's obviously not cute. And i just I just love it so much. And then we also, I think that's like where we get more of the kind of shots of different people like unpacking the meat and stuff. I thought it was really interesting when they flash through all the different people who buy and eat the meat that he harvests. right is yeah the different ways that they have it prepared, right? So we see people who kind of do what he does where they're having like these like gourmet meals and like it happens to be people need and then there's like people eating it raw. And then there's like one guy who's like eating it out of a dog bowl. like There's just like a lot of like really wild and interesting... Right. There's definitely an implication that it's kind of like a kink for some of these people.
00:55:19
Speaker
Totally, totally. But it doesn't seem to be for Steve. No, I don't think it is. He definitely is like separate. I mean, I think he is a psychopath, but I think he is like separated himself enough from the people for the most part that he's like, okay, like he, I think, yeah, this is the part that reminds me of Texas Chainsaw Massacre or like just neat consumption stuff in general where he's like, I just have to do this to keep my livelihood and meat consumption going. I also kept thinking like he was getting his fingerprints all over that shit. He must like know for sure where it's going. And like, I just, I was surprised that he wasn't more careful to knock at his fingerprints on things.
00:56:08
Speaker
I think that's why I wondered what the scale of it was because he seemed like he had his own kind of like, it was either his own delivery service or he was a part of something big. You know what I mean? It's not super yeah clear, but it's like clearly delivered within like this group of people and like everything is done just within this little group. and Yeah. I would assume he's not the only one butchering because it is like an exclusive thing, but I don't think that the people who are buying it would risk losing access to it by it only being one person. Yeah, but I'm curious if it's like if it's like an like if it like an organized ring or if they just like have multiple suppliers, I guess is more what I mean. Right. um like i would just But I think you're probably right about that, that like they wouldn't like
00:56:53
Speaker
They wouldn't like take the risk of having just one person but, and I think when the wife jumps in at the end and it's like we have to preserve the meat that also makes me feel like maybe there's like a more organized like larger structure at play to it but it's still not. Yeah. But, right. But I think that that's also part of it right is like. you wonder like ah you almost start to wonder like how does he vet these people and like what have these people had to like do to prove to him that they can be trusted with this. right and like yeah like Do they have to supply a victim at some point? like i did There's so many like ways like that it could go, but it's like,
00:57:32
Speaker
you just wonder, right? like is he Does he have like some sort of expectation of like you need to commit some sort of really bad crime and like give me the proof of it or whatever? I'm you know i'm just like very curious about those kind of broader elements of the business. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder about that too. So then she has to take a shower and like he's being kind of playful with her and she's like still like, I am, I've been kidnapped. And he says, I'm still the guy in the bar from that night. It's like, are you though bro? Which is such a man thing to say also.
00:58:11
Speaker
And yeah and he's he grabs her face and says, are you going to be good? but And then she tries to escape. They like fight and he knocks her out. And then she wakes up and they're in his surgical theater, which is like super intense with lights and the walls are all mirrored because I'm sure he loves watching himself doing this. Well, he also doesn't have like stat. like I think that some of it is also like seeing it from all angles and because he has no nurses and stuff. Maybe. There's also some bright poppy 80s music here. I don't remember what song it was. And then she wakes up and he's like, don't worry, you won't feel a thing. I gave you an epidural. And he's like, I'm taking your ass. You lost my trust and there has to be consequences. yeah Like, oh my god. Yeah, literally reducing her to a piece of ass.
00:59:06
Speaker
Okay, so I think we're gonna stop this episode here and cover the rest of the movie in a part two. So we will see you next time.