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I Saw The TV Glow (2024)
9 Plays2 months ago
Buckle in, because this is a special one. Join us in this episode as I get to talk to Jasmine about the iconic queer horror film I Saw The TV Glow. We talk about what works so well about the movie, and the personal reasons it resonates so deeply with us. We talk about how the film balances the deep nostalgia of old school TV, and the absolute horror of getting stuck in your own past.
I really hope you will check out the film before listening, it is so far beyond anything we can really explain in the episode.
Episodes available on YouTube or Spotify!
Intro Music: Body in the trunk by Victor_Natas -- https://freesound.org/s/717975/ -- License: Attribution 4.0
Outro Music: drum loop x5 by theoctopus559 -- https://freesound.org/s/622897/ -- License: Attribution 4.0
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
unless you don't want to edit all that. But now you're going to have to fucking edit all this.
Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome to What Haunts You, a podcast about the stories that haunt our dreams. Find us on Instagram at whathauntsyoupod and find all our episodes on both YouTube and Spotify.
Discussing 'I Saw the TV Glow': A Dive into Jasmine's Horror Preferences
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm your host Carly and this week I have my friend Jasmine with me. So welcome Jasmine. Hi.
00:00:44
Speaker
Hello. Do you want to tell me what movie you decided to talk to me about today? So I chose I Saw the TV Glow. I'm really excited to talk about this one. So before we get like too far I guess, into the actual movie, can you tell me a little bit about how you feel about the horror genre and like what, what your experience with it is, what your feelings about it it are and all that good stuff?
00:01:10
Speaker
So I feel like my relationship to this genre is just, it's so like entangled with our relationship because it's like,
00:01:21
Speaker
you i was one of those people that was like, I just didn't think I liked any kind of horror. i was like against it. And of course, you have like, converted me. I've seen the light.
00:01:36
Speaker
My favorite thing to do. Yeah. I love like existential horror. I love like, stuff that makes you confront like inner stuff and I don't know, like introspect and be like afraid to sleep with your own demons.
00:01:53
Speaker
What are like some of your favorite horror movies? If that's too much putting you on the spot, that's like we can skip it. But like what what are some of your favorite horror movies?
Favorite Horror Films and Impactful Scenes
00:02:01
Speaker
um Well, I know one of them is The Witch. Oh, yeah. So that one, i would say.
00:02:08
Speaker
So like Get Out is another one. i Oh, I love um Hereditary. the mom scene in that one is like just it's haunts me.
00:02:19
Speaker
Like the dinner table, like which which mom's the dinner table scene. Yeah. Yeah. That scene is really good. The menu. it not Not the menu. There was another one.
00:02:30
Speaker
the menu was the one all other also with Anya Taylor Joy where they're like on the island. what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There's another one in that category in my brain where we're like, there's like, has something to do with food and class.
00:02:46
Speaker
The platform. No, I haven't seen that actually. we'll have to watch it. It is on my list. If it has to do with like class, if there, if it's like critical of like social things, which I mean, that's, I guess, inherent to this, well, to art generally.
Personal Connection to 'I Saw the TV Glow' and Gender Identity
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i and I think we've watched some of those movies together, which is also like unsurprising, unsurprising I guess. But this movie, I think, is like a little, it's very different. It's like kind of a doing, it's it's really like doing its own thing, I think. So why this movie? Like why why are we going to talk about I Saw the TV Glow? What appeals to you about that movie specifically?
00:03:27
Speaker
There's just something, like when I originally watched, well, you recommended this movie to me. um And then I just threw it on one night and i was like, I'll just like watch it, whatever. And then i was like, sobbing and like having like a mental breakdown.
00:03:44
Speaker
And I think this is one of the like, pieces of like media for me as like a gender queer, whatever person. that has like helped me realize my own like gender queerness in like a, in a less like amorphous way.
00:04:02
Speaker
Cause there are just so many like graphic scenes in it that are like, oh shit, like I've experienced this or like, I just like really identify with the story and the way that they talk about transness. And so it feels like personal,
00:04:18
Speaker
And it's also in that like psychological existential realm. and it's just really beautiful. Like so many good colors. I love colors. So like.
00:04:32
Speaker
It's total eye candy. Yeah. It's eye candy while being like the most upsetting thing I've ever seen in my whole life, basically. Yeah. I recommend you a lot of movies and I generally try to recommend people things that I think they will like. But I really, really knew that you would love this movie.
00:04:48
Speaker
And when we talked about you doing the podcast, I was really, i i i don't even know that I would have thought to suggest it, but I was really excited that this was the one that you said you wanted to talk about. I'm going to like set the stage a little bit.
First Impressions and Emotional Reactions to the Movie
00:05:00
Speaker
i went to this movie. I saw this movie at the theater. I saw it with my younger cousin. And I went into this movie with absolutely no information about what I was walking into, which you know I love to do. Like i'm i'm I don't watch trailers.
00:05:12
Speaker
As soon as I decide to watch something, I essentially just like stopped taking in any information about it. So i went in. totally naive to what was going to happen. And when we came out of the theater, literally the first words out of my mouth was just like, is this movie about being trans? Like, was this movie just fully about queerness?
00:05:30
Speaker
And then we're like walking to the car, Googling, like I saw the TV glow trans allegory. And like, this was before it had been out long enough for like all these video essays and like all these things discussing it.
00:05:43
Speaker
But there was enough information that it was like, yes, that is not only a read of the movie, but that's like what the movie was setting out to do. So some of the emotions didn't hit me totally the first time because I didn't really know what I was watching until it became really obvious.
00:05:59
Speaker
And then i think I like teared up a little bit at the end. And then the second time I watched it, which was thankfully at my house, i knew what it was doing.
00:06:09
Speaker
And that made so many of the earlier scenes hit so much harder. And i was just like leaking out of my eyes. Like I literally didn't stop crying, i think, for the entire movie. Like i I was just like crying the whole time. hmm.
00:06:25
Speaker
And I feel like it just gets better every time I watch it. Like I had to like I've watched it. I think this was like the fourth time I watched it. And it just keeps it just keeps getting better. Yeah. So the notes that I have for this movie are like maybe the longest notes I've ever taken because this movie, except I guess when I do like the ones that are by myself, that's like a little bit different. But There's just so much detail and so much nuance to this whole movie. And like every shot matters. Every little detail matters. Like nothing is frivolous in this movie. Like it's it's kind of long, but it's very contained. Like everything is really deliberate. There's nothing there's no fluff. Like there's nothing that could be like cut from this movie that wouldn't, I think, take away from it. So my detail, like the details I go into are just like way more than normal.
00:07:15
Speaker
But I would say like, even though I'm going to go into a lot of detail, this is the type of movie you just have to watch. Nothing I could say about it, no matter how much detail I could go into twice as much detail as I'm actually going to. And like, it would still.
00:07:30
Speaker
not even touch how effective the movie actually is. Like, I think this movie is kind of like, I think this is like mandatory queer viewing at the very least. I like think this movie will be like studied in queer media studies.
00:07:42
Speaker
This is like a really groundbreaking movie that is just like so worth seeing and not just listening to people talk
Nostalgia and Childhood Memories in the Movie
00:07:48
Speaker
about it. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's just fun, like for the stylization of it. It's like so nostalgic, but also so heartbreaking. Like it really Really just like taps into so many memories and so much of like just the way things were, i feel like, when we were younger. oh my God.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's in my notes. It's so many iconic childhood scenes. Let's like get into the actual plot. So the movie like opens up on a suburban neighborhood and there's like chalk drawings all over the street.
Exploring Gender Identity through the Characters
00:08:21
Speaker
Wait, actually... Before I do this, I guess would like your opinion. i I'm totally springing on this on you. But I guess I wonder, like, what pronouns do we want to use for Owen? Because it feels weird no matter what.
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, um I had this question too. And i think it's like a good thing to talk about because ah it feels painful to call Owen he, him.
00:08:54
Speaker
But also I was saying he, him. Then I was saying her kind of like with the like chronological events of the movie. Then I was saying them.
00:09:07
Speaker
I think for Maddie's character, it's definitely them. what are What were your like initial notes saying, I guess? I was referring to Maddie as she mostly because Owen does, but I think that you are probably right.
00:09:20
Speaker
like I don't disagree with your assessment, but I was just kind of going with the language of the movie. And so since I was going with the language of the movie, I had Owen as he, but like, I also don't feel ah like good about that. So I don't know.
00:09:35
Speaker
i guess like they is, I mean, it's kind of an interesting question of like, can you thrust someone's proper pronouns upon them without their consent? Like, and obviously like this is a fictional character, right? Like we're not talking about a real person, but.
00:09:49
Speaker
It's, you know, it's it's like, can you overstep that line when they have not stepped over it themselves? Yeah. So I was going to say um that I was thinking about, well, in my like my plan, my secret plan was to just use like Owen's name and be like, when Owen said this.
00:10:11
Speaker
Like, Owen does this. So um i was going to avoid the topic, but I also had that question. So I'm glad that we're discussing it. And I think they he they maybe.
00:10:22
Speaker
I think that's fine. Yeah, I think that's fine. i think he and they make the most sense for the movie, even though they make the least sense for Owen. Yeah. ah But anyway, so the movie opens. We're in a suburban neighborhood.
00:10:38
Speaker
We see like chalk drawings on the street. It's like setting the scene for what what type of place we're in. And I think it right off the bat like sets up suburbia very effectively. And Owen is in his house watching the Young Adult Network.
00:10:52
Speaker
So you could imagine, right? wherere We're talking like ah like the end of Cartoon Network. kind of vibes or like the end of probably not Disney, but maybe the end of Nickelodeon, right? Like we're talking about like these kids channels that have like kind of weirder shit on and the closer it gets to the end of their programming. And that's kind of what this is doing.
00:11:14
Speaker
And he sees a commercial for a show called The Pink Opaque. Do like you could describe what the show is? Not it like not the larger thematic stuff, but just like, can you like what, like literally what the show is?
00:11:27
Speaker
These two kids are at like a sleepaway camp and they like find each other and realize that they have this like connection through the universe or like the pink opaque powers basically.
00:11:43
Speaker
And i guess it's just a series of like adventures that they go on together and there's like a monster of the week and they fight different foes and then Mr. Melancholy is like the man, the moon man who's like the ultimate like monster villain.
00:12:05
Speaker
And um yeah, so that he's like looming the whole time. think that like sums it up. And when he's watching this commercial, they're like talking about monsters. They're talking about In the commercial for the episode, I guess that's probably airing that week or whatever, they're talking about monsters called the Drain Lords. And one of the girls in the show says, they can't hurt you if you don't think about them.
00:12:31
Speaker
And that is, that's important. Like that's something that comes back way later and kind of like looms over whole story. And then the next day we see like Owen is at school and he's in gym class. They're playing with that like big parachute thing. but It's so nostalgic.
00:12:52
Speaker
It's that big parachute thing that you like lift into the air and then everyone runs under and like sits your butt on the edge so that it's like a big tent that you're all in together. And this what like, what does this one look like to you? I mean, what like, oh, my God, it's so trans. It's like the trans flag.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's not like exactly the trans flag. It's kind of like if the bi flag and trans flag like had a baby, it's like purple, blue, pink and white. And but there but it just you see it and it rings pride flag in your brain. yeah Like, you know how sometimes you see like a new pride flag that you maybe haven't seen before, but you see it and you're like, that's got to be a pride flag, right? Like there's there's like some bell that gets rung in your brain and it's it's definitely ringing that bell when you look at it. If you're if you're, I guess, in the know. Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, one of the first, of like, clues of many. And that's, like, what i'm talking about. Like, I had no thoughts about that the first time I saw it. I was like, oh, that's pretty. Like, whatever. And, like, that's kind of the the intro. It's, like, him, Owen, in this, like, state of innocence where he's a child. He's, like, walking through this, like, parachuted thing.
00:14:07
Speaker
And he's, like like, behind him is basically the trans flag. Yeah. Again, not so explicitly, but not so implicitly either. And then that's like where we get like the title card. So that's like the intro to the movie.
00:14:21
Speaker
And then we get the real setup where Owen is like out in the woods by himself. This is like him as an adult much later. And he's talking about how he started watching his old favorite show again, The Pink Opaque.
00:14:33
Speaker
And then we flash back to him back to when he's little, like back to the Owen that we see under the parachute. And Owen is waiting with his mom. It seems like it's voting day. She she says something along the lines of like,
00:14:46
Speaker
it's been four years, it's time to vote for the saxophone man again. And they see Maddie there. And Maddie is a few years older than them. And she is reading an episode guide about the pink opaque, which Owen is like super fascinated by and hasn't actually seen yet because it airs after his bedtime. So like, what is this interaction like between them and to you?
00:15:10
Speaker
So like Maddie is reading the official episode guide and she like says this like very proudly and they connect over that, over the pink opaque. And they just have this like bond that felt immediate me, immediately to me, like what it felt like to meet other queer kids in like middle school for me. i was like, oh, you're fucking weird too. Like, yes.
00:15:34
Speaker
And it's like this unspoken thing. And I think, what does he say? Like, he's apologizing for something. i don't remember what he gets wrong.
00:15:46
Speaker
But she just says so like sternly, Maddie does like don't apologize. And it's so like unapologetic. Yeah. Yeah, literally.
00:15:57
Speaker
And it's funny because I feel like Maddie is ready to be like too cool for him. Like you can see her wanting to be that way. But something about him, like something about Owen makes her warm up and makes her open up, even though you can tell off the bat that this is like a closed off character.
00:16:17
Speaker
Yeah. um She's like an elder queer or something already. And she she is, but she's like farther along in her like journey of like self-acceptance or whatever. And she's like, don't apologize. Like, don't you dare.
00:16:33
Speaker
And so when Maddie finds out that Owen has never actually seen the show, but is like clearly he's like already a fan. Like he's like, i don't even need to see the show. I'm a fan of the show. Maddie says that Owen should sneak out and stay at her house on Saturday so that they can watch the Pingo Pig together. there. Maddie watches it with, at the time, that like their best friend every single Saturday. So he does, he he goes over there and Maddie and her friend Amanda seem to be playing MASH on the couch from like what they're talking about, which is really funny to me because what a heteronormative suburban game to be playing in a movie like this. Like the contrast between that game and movie, like
00:17:17
Speaker
twenty Right? Like, isn't that just such a random choice? Like of all the things they could be doing, they're doing, let's pretend to map out my traditional American life. Yeah. And it was so it was like really funny to me that Maddie was like, like the girls disagree about which boys are like, good enough. And Maddie is like, what about this guy? And like, her friends like, oh, no. And she's like, she like likes him. And I'm just like, that's so gay of her to like, like the like, I don't know, non heteronormative kid probably.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah. So they're playing MASH until the show starts. And Maddie is like very intense. Like once this once the show starts, everything shuts down. It's like they're they're locked in. And they watch the show. And that's when we learn more about the main characters. So the main characters are Tara and Isabel.
00:18:10
Speaker
And they are like psychically connected, despite what the show says is quote, living on opposite sides of the county, which is like hilarious because when you're that age, that does feel like the person might as well be on the other side of the planet, right? Like like there's literally no difference between that and them being on the other side of the world, which is also just very nostalgic. That feeling of like if you can't like walk two blocks to someone's house, like they might as well not be there.
00:18:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And the episode that we see is about the ice cream man monster. And Owen is like totally transfixed. And then afterwards, when Maddie asks if Owen liked the show, Owen says it was really interesting. And she's talking about like what she thinks about the characters.
00:18:53
Speaker
And she says that Isabel is a scaredy cat. And Tara is her favorite because she's, quote, super hot and she doesn't take shit from anybody, which you can see already that like Maddie is trying to embody that energy. I think in a clumsy way, the way that like teenage imitations of things are very clumsy, but you can already see that desire to be like this character.
00:19:18
Speaker
But Tara and Isabel have only met in person once, and they communicate through the psychic plane to help each other fight monsters on opposite sides of the county. And Maddie talks about like the structure of the show. She talks about like the monster of the week episodes versus like the more mythology episodes, which like if you watch X-Files are Supernatural, like you'll know what that means. Like there's an overarching story that like goes over everything. And then there are like little monsters that fit into that.
00:19:48
Speaker
And that's when we learn about Mr. Melancholy, who you mentioned earlier. They say that Mr. Melancholy messes with time and reality and that He wants to trap Isabel and Tara on the Midnight Realm.
00:20:01
Speaker
So we don't really know exactly what that means yet, but we certainly will. So after they talk about it for a little bit, Owen is like trying to get the lingo down as like a new fan, right?
00:20:12
Speaker
And Maddie goes to her room to sleep and Owen is going to sleep in the basement. She tells him that he has to be out by dawn because if her stepdad catches him, he'll break her nose again.
00:20:25
Speaker
So earlier Maddie mentions her mom not caring about when she goes to sleep. And now we have, you know, indications that her dad is abusive. So we're not seeing like a great picture for what her life is like there.
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And then right before she leaves, she like gets ready. She turns the light off. You kind of feel like she's done. And she hesitates before she leaves. And then she says, sometimes the pink opaque feels more real than real life, you know?
00:20:51
Speaker
And that is, that's the start of everything, right? Like that line is the start of everything. What did you like, did, what did you think? Like, the I guess the first time you saw the movie when she said that?
00:21:04
Speaker
I don't think I was on to her yet. Although I don't, I was thinking about what you said, like going into the movie with, with nothing. And I was trying to remember if that was my experience also, because I remember first watching it and this is kind of a tangent, but like I first watched it and I was like, like I was texting you and I was like, this is about being trans. Like this is about being queer. and um,
00:21:31
Speaker
But I don't think I was like I had picked up on it at that point yet. I definitely think in like the last or like the second watch through, I was like, that's kind of it felt like the momentum started picking up at that point.
00:21:46
Speaker
That makes sense. And even before I realized what the movie was really doing, I was just like in that suburbia mind space. and thinking about like how nothing feels real when you're just like living every day is the same, every house is the same, like everything is just the same.
00:22:05
Speaker
And it does feel flat and just like, it's not vivid. It's not it's not like the way you think life should be, so to speak. So I was like thinking about that even before I was thinking about the actual queer elements of the story.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah. I think if I can talk about Owen's experience of everything is really what I identified with because so much of my childhood was like this like dissociated fugue state So I just had that like PTSD, like blank stare that Owen has like so much throughout the the movie, even while they're watching the pink opaque. Like I really like that really resonated with me, I guess, especially in those earlier scenes. Yeah.
00:22:56
Speaker
After we see the show for the first time, we start to see scenes of Owen walking home that are kind of like spliced with scenes of Isabel walking through the woods. And that's the first instance of this, but that's something that's going to keep going through the whole movie where we will like see Owen doing something and it'll kind of flash to Isabel from the show and then back to Owen.
00:23:19
Speaker
And I think back to kind of what you were just saying, the thing about this movie movie is that time just slips by in this movie. We have a two year transition, then we have an eight year transition. Like we are jumping in time a lot.
00:23:33
Speaker
in this movie. And you really get the impression each time it happens that just literally nothing has happened in between. It's just been going through the motions. Owen has been going through the motions. Life has been going through the motions.
00:23:47
Speaker
You don't really get any indication that anything interesting or exciting is happening for this person. We jump to two years later and Owen's mom has cancer.
00:23:58
Speaker
They're at the fair. They like go to the fair and she's trying to talk to Owen about how how they seem lately. And she says, it seems like you're always somewhere else lately. And I think that's kind of like what you're talking about, right? That like detached, dissociative stare where you're just like not you're not engaged with your life. It's like happening to you and it's not really, you're not living it Yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
Isn't there a point like in that scene, isn't he like drooling or something? He spits on his cotton candy. I don't know. i Yeah. He like spits on it. that I kind of forgot about that.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah. He like spits on his cotton candy before he eats it, which is like terrifying to me. That's the scariest part of the movie. um But I'm like, say you um but yeah, but it it is. It's like a weird, it is a really weird moment that I still like.
00:24:49
Speaker
I still don't really understand. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to chalk it up to like an indicator that Owen is just like not doing anything how Owen is quote unquote supposed to. Like, I don't know.
00:25:01
Speaker
um Just unhinged behavior right there. Can't even enjoy the whimsy of cotton candy. That's actually, actually think that's like a good point, right? Like cotton candy is like a very whimsical thing and like it melts and like that kind of You like break the illusion of like this like cloud thing that you're eating. Yeah.
00:25:21
Speaker
Oh, it's tragic. That's sad. Yeah. So Owen is in high school now and Owen's bedtime is still 1015, which is not late enough to watch the Pink Opaque. So the Pink Opaque, they say, is the last show.
00:25:38
Speaker
before the like time block runs out and they switch to black and white reruns, which again, like just with the nostalgia of right of like it goes to a certain point and then like you fall asleep and then you wake up and it's playing like really old ass TV shows that are also very fun, to be fair, but it it's like such a such a quintessential experience for our generation.
00:25:59
Speaker
Owen asks if ah one basically says like nobody in the ninth grade has a bedtime can I stay up today and watch the pink opaque? And not only does Owen's dad say no, but, but he also asks, isn't that a show for girls?
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah. So we see those like gender norms showing up right away, right? That like, that would even be a problem. Like, Whatever. The bedtime thing is like a little weird, but that's like a separate kind of thing.
00:26:26
Speaker
But we already see that like there is a certain type of behavior that Owen's dad is looking for. We don't really need that much evidence of it. Right. Like it's little moments like that that make it really, really clear what kind of dad this is.
00:26:41
Speaker
We don't need a ton of time with him to like establish that. Yeah. Yeah. It was also frustrating to me in that scene. um i guess it's frustrating, like the life that his mom seems to live or their mom, because it's like even in that in the car scene and maybe I miss misremembering this, but like she's like, oh, you have to ask your dad or whatever.
00:27:05
Speaker
And she's so like she's so powerless in the parenting of her child, of like getting connected to him when he's like so distant. And it's it feels like she's also distant, like she's also detached somehow. I don't know, like her character just seems similar to his.
00:27:24
Speaker
And it never seems like Owen's dad is abusive, but it seems like he's just the type of dad that just sucks the life out of the family. Yeah. Is his dad abusive though?
00:27:36
Speaker
I don't think it's like clear. Like nothing in this movie is clear. that's That's what's clear. Right. I think the themes are clear, but like the details can be read so many different ways.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah. So one of the things about this movie is that Owen talks directly into the camera a lot, which works really, really well in this movie. He looks at us, he tells the audience things, and he looks at us with that kind of thousand mile stare and his just like empty face, like no light behind the eyes. The acting is phenomenal.
00:28:09
Speaker
But in this moment, Owen looks at the camera, tells us, the audience, that after the sleepover, he couldn't get himself to talk to Maddie again that much. But when Owen told Maddie that they still weren't allowed to watch the show, she started taping it for him and leaving the tapes for him at school.
00:28:28
Speaker
So they're not able to connect. they They, I think, both don't have the emotional maturity or general practice of vulnerability to really connect with each other. But there's this thread of the pink opaque That keeps them connected basically until Maddie leaves.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah. That song that they play too over that like montage. I, I like, I Googled it while I was watching it this time and I was just like, I just added it to my querying playlist, but.
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's so I don't know. it just feels like it perfectly like encapsulates that feeling of like being swept away into this like new world and like this new relationship that I don't know. i I like even though they don't have much connection, it's it's like so deep between them.
00:29:20
Speaker
And I really liked that. Yeah, it's like the deepest parts of themselves are connecting when the rest of them are not able to. yeah So it's this like weird, there is no shallow connection between them whatsoever.
00:29:33
Speaker
But like because of that, they have no idea how to engage with each other because it's like this hurting, aching part of them that's just like reaching out to the other one. It's it's really... It's really like a profound relationship that they have. Yeah. that this song I mean, honestly, the soundtrack to this movie is literally amazing. I have like all the lyrics to a certain song that I want to talk about later.
00:29:55
Speaker
But the the music for this was so perfectly chosen for queerness and teen angst and like this feeling of being locked away, right? it's It really... And like, what would it be like to to be swept away into that different world? Like, it's so...
00:30:11
Speaker
Oh, like i it's like the one of the best soundtracks, period, ever. Yeah. And so while the song is playing, we get like the little flashes of episode titles and little notes and doodles that like presumably she's putting on these tapes.
00:30:27
Speaker
And one of the notes from Maddie says, Isabel and Tara are like family to me. And one of the doodles, and this is, I didn't write down all of them because there's just too many, but the one that I think is the most important is a doodle of Tara wearing a magic dress, which is 100% going to come up, right? It's like, literally, that's like, I'm crying. I'm like looking at the phrase magic dress and crying. It's like immediate.
00:30:50
Speaker
And we come back to Owen narrating and Owen tells the camera. So she tells tells us the audience that that he watched the tapes over and over again. And we see a scene of... the We see a scene from one of the episodes of these two, like, moon demon twins dancing together, like, ominously. They're doing this, like, crazy interpretive dance, and their names are Marco and Polo. And they're kind of, like...
00:31:16
Speaker
Mr. Melancholy, the big bad. They're like kind of Mr. Melancholy's like henchmen, it seems. um And they're so creepy. They're creepy in exactly the way that like slightly too creepy kid stuff is creepy. Did it like hit right on that head for you? Oh, totally.
00:31:32
Speaker
It's like 90s, like just like i don't know if it's like like in the 90s they meant for shit to be creepy, but like it's like that like liminal kind of like weird, unsettling. It's like going back and watching the the Return the Slab episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog and being like, holy shit, that thing is creepy.
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah. Great show, by the way. Totally. So in the show, Tara seems to understand what's going on more, which makes a lot of sense because, right, the the connections we're drawing are between Maddie and Tara and Owen and Isabel. Those are like the parallels here. So Tara seems to understand more of what's going on And she tells Isabel that she's not going crazy. She says, you're like me, you're special.
00:32:17
Speaker
And eventually Owen does finally talk to Matt anymore. And this scene is huge. Owen approaches her while she is sitting basically on the bleachers by herself eating lunch. And Owen asks if she and Amanda still watch the Pink Opaque on Saturdays.
00:32:33
Speaker
And she says that Amanda is now a cheerleader and also spread a rumor about her basically hitting on her. which she didn't. She admits that she does like girls, but she did not hit on Amanda. That was bullshit.
00:32:48
Speaker
That bitch. and That bitch, indeed. You can see how angry she is. And you can imagine, right? Like, I'm sure this is like a story you've heard. I know that I know people that something like this has happened to where like a person might confide their sexuality to someone.
00:33:02
Speaker
And like that person doesn't know how to receive it and is like, you're clearly attracted to me specifically. Like, youre why are you telling me this unless you're hitting on me, right? Like there's so, like, like again, If you're watching this from queer community, any experience that you haven't had explicitly yourself is like something you will see in your friends, which I think is why the movie is so intense. Like you don't really get a break. Even if you didn't live something, you know someone who lived it.
00:33:26
Speaker
And so you don't need a ton. And I think that's why like there are so many monologues and like stylized scenes because we don't need that much detail about the stuff they're going through because the shorthand is so effective.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah, if you if you've lived it, it's like haunting. Owen says that he'd like to come over and watch again. And Maddie is basically like, I like girls, you know that, right? And he is like kind of taken aback by her saying this, not in a way where it seems unacceptable to him, but almost just like he can't believe that she just like came out and said that.
00:34:00
Speaker
and literally came out. That wasn't what I meant, but like literally came out and said that. And so he's kind of stumbling and fumbling when he responds, but he's like, that's fine. I just like want to watch this show with you.
00:34:12
Speaker
And she asks Owen, does Owen like girls? And Owen hesitates. And then she asks Owen if Owen likes boys. And Owen says, and i'm goingnna I'm going to read this whole monologue. I'm going to read so many monologues, I guess, like I'm going to probably feel awkward about it.
00:34:29
Speaker
No, I literally wrote the same one down. So she asks him um if he likes girls and he ah he's like he's just like, I think I like TV shows.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, he says that. And then he says, when I think about that stuff, it feels like someone took a shovel and dug out all my insides. I know there's nothing in there, but I'm still too nervous to open myself up and check.
00:34:53
Speaker
I know there's something wrong with me. My parents know it, too, even if they don't say anything. do you ever feel like that? And she looks at him and says she doesn't know. And Maddie says to him, maybe you're like Isabel, afraid of what's inside you So we're getting those, again, those those parallels getting solidified here, right?
00:35:13
Speaker
Where we know that Maddie relates to Tara and now Maddie is drawing that connection for the audience and for Owen ah between Isabel and Owen. so what does that monologue bring up for you and like what was it like for you to hear mean because you're totally right he like chokes it out of himself and it's the most vulnerability we see from him like up to this point of maybe at all but like especially up to this point so what what does that seem like for you to watch ah yeah I feel like this is like one of the first parts in the movie where I was like
00:35:47
Speaker
Oh, i really identify with this character. Because, like, it's so hard to, like, figure out that you're queer and then to wrestle with it with, like, the forces inside of you that are opposing external pressures to conform and like do what dominant culture wants.
00:36:13
Speaker
And for some people, this isn't their experience. But for me, um it was like, it's almost like he has this unconscious battle happening.
00:36:23
Speaker
And he he's always like a safe distance from his feelings. Which is pretty much was my experience as a kid, um as a queer kid. But he's just so empty inside.
00:36:36
Speaker
and he kind of like confronts that, I think, for the first time in this scene. i have this like, ADHD like profile. And with that comes a flight of ideas.
00:36:50
Speaker
but also like delayed processing. And that's also like, i think it's just such a queer experience. It it feels like, cause it's like neurodivergence and, and transness. Like think you're like more likely to be trans if you are autistic or just like not understand gender or something.
00:37:09
Speaker
And so the way that he answers that question felt so like autistic coded as well. Cause it's just like, like neuro queer coded. Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
Like, I don't understand sexuality, even though I'm 14. Because, like, also there's that, like, spiky profile of, like, development, too, where, like, sometimes you don't even have those urges or, like, understand them or whatever. so yeah, like, all of that was wrapped up in that. And I just was like, ugh, I'm being seen by this scene.
00:37:43
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. And I totally agree, right? There's, like, that meme of... I'm autistic and I never felt like a girl because I never quite felt human. And it's kind of like in that, in that kind of category, like Owen's answer here like,
00:37:59
Speaker
akin to that kind of experience. Yeah. They're just like, I like shows. I like TV. Yeah. So Owen does go to Maddie's again and they do watch another episode of the Pink Opaque together live as it airs.
00:38:14
Speaker
And the episode shows a clown like guy doing again what I can only really describe as an interpretive dance. That seems to be what the villains do this show.
00:38:26
Speaker
And The girls get there to defeat this evil dancing clown. Not Pennywise the dancing clown, a different dancing clown. And Tara, who is very super cool and does take shit from no one, says maybe my favorite line in the entire movie. And she goes, Estee Lauder called. They got a few suggestions about this whole look you're going for.
00:38:46
Speaker
and I just like lose my shit at that moment. I just love that so much. Such a read. Seriously, it was it's perfect.
00:38:57
Speaker
And while they're watching, Maddie starts to cry. And Owen doesn't really know how to comfort her. And so they just kind of sit there and watch the show while she cries. And like, maybe that's actually the right thing, right? I don't know that there was anything Owen needed to do other than to just be there, right? And so they have this moment where they're watching the show and she's crying.
00:39:21
Speaker
And then again, she goes up to bed. but After she goes to bed, she comes back downstairs and she tells him that she's going to run away. She's going to get out of their town.
00:39:32
Speaker
And she says, I'll die if I stay here. I don't know exactly how, but I know it's true. And that line for me, as someone who grew up in the suburbs, and I'm not going to say this is like separate for me from queerness, but it's like not, it's not like specific to queerness. It's just kind of everything.
00:39:51
Speaker
That line really describes like the first 18 years of my life. Like that was how I felt about the town I grew up in. I was like, i will not survive here. Either this town will drive me literally to suicide or it will just rip out anything in me that makes me me and like smash it to bits.
00:40:11
Speaker
And even the first time I saw the movie, when again, I didn't know exactly where we were going, that line just felt like a gut punch to me. Yeah. And Owen basically says that if Maddie leaves, he won't have anyone to watch the pink opaque with.
00:40:26
Speaker
And then we have then we have this scene where Maddie like kind of takes Owen's shirt partway off and draws.
00:40:38
Speaker
So in the show, the girls have this little cute pink ghosty tattoo on the back of their necks. And she like pulls their shirt down and draws the little pink ghosty on the back. That makes it sound silly. It's not a silly moment in the movie that she draws the symbol on the back of his neck in a moment that to me feels very sensual and very intimate. And it's the most intimate moment I think that we have seen in the movie and like maybe that we see in the whole movie.
00:41:13
Speaker
And I think on a second viewing, and I think then like in retrospect on a first viewing, i think there's something to be wondered here, right? Maddie knows that she likes girls, but it appears in this moment that Maddie might like Owen.
00:41:28
Speaker
And maybe, maybe Maddie knows something that Owen doesn't know, isn't looking at, is treating like the drain lords. It can't hurt me if I don't think about it.
00:41:39
Speaker
Totally. Did that scene read as like sensual to you that like I don't know if that was just me, but like that it really came across that way to me. I have so many fucking memories of like doing super gay shit with other with other girls.
00:41:59
Speaker
And being like, this feels so like, I didn't know the word, like, I didn't know what romantic felt like. I couldn't even probably identify an emotion when I was like a kid.
00:42:14
Speaker
But like, it was like, it it felt like so many of those moments where you're like, As the viewer, you're like, this, this, like, are they like into each other? Like, are they, is something happening? And then like, it just, it just like made me think about all of the questionable ah sexual things that I did with other, like the same sex, whatever.
00:42:37
Speaker
As a kid that never like struck me as gay, by the way, i was just like, this is what everybody does. Everybody like kisses girls and like, it's like, you know, yeah and then also but it reminds me of like the the scene toward the end of the movie where Owen is like,
00:42:56
Speaker
in the bathroom and he's like realizing that he's trans and he remembers seeing Maddie look at him in a dress or something.
00:43:08
Speaker
Like there's a scene from them being kids and he's wearing a dress and she's like looking at him like she loves. Kind of dreamily, right? Kind of dreamy eyes. Yeah. It was like the same vibe. So.
00:43:23
Speaker
For sure. i I totally see that. Just those little hints. And yeah. And so we have this really intimate and vulnerable scene. And then instead of going back up to bed, she falls asleep next to him.
00:43:37
Speaker
ah Like nothing but explicitly sexual happens, but she falls asleep with him. and then it's his turn to cry. and And they're laying there and she's asleep and he is he's crying until he falls asleep.
00:43:48
Speaker
And in the morning, she tells him, next Saturday, let's do the same thing and bring all your stuff with you and we'll run away. And Owen has been pretending to sleep at ah someone he used to be friends with, like at their house.
00:44:05
Speaker
And Owen goes to this childhood friend's house and like frantically knocks, rings the doorbell, like really urgently. And when this friend's mom answers the door, Owen basically...
00:44:18
Speaker
begs her to rat them out to their parents. um He feels totally helpless to stay if they don't make him stay, but he's too scared to leave. He's too scared to like take the plunge.
00:44:31
Speaker
Which was like, i just felt like that was so painful to watch. Like that was like one of the first moments of many where you just see him like succumb to the pressure. Yeah. It's really sad. and And it's one of those moments too, where you can tell How badly.
00:44:49
Speaker
They want to leave. So Owen does this to basically trap himself in the town and Maddie disappears. And Owen tells us all they found was her TV set burning in the backyard.
00:45:02
Speaker
He tells us that just when she disappears, the show gets canceled. The pink opaque gets canceled. We get the news that the show has been canceled from Owen as we watch Maddie's TV like burn and melt away in her yard.
00:45:18
Speaker
And then we have another time slip, a much bigger time slip, and it is eight years later. And Owen is working at a movie theater, like an old, ah again, with the nostalgia, like an old school movie theater that has like arcade games in it and stuff.
00:45:32
Speaker
And... we see that they have just learned nothing about the world. They are still awkward and clumsy in the way he interacts with the world. And one day at work, he walks into the projection room and catches his boss with a sex worker.
00:45:48
Speaker
And he's like totally mortified. And later the boss is giving him shit and is basically like, I can put in a good word for you with her if you want. she's It's just like a little moment to tell us that this is something that Owen is still feels totally alien to Owen.
00:46:07
Speaker
It is not something that's on Owen's radar. And like, it's not something that is come not that you're ever comfortable like walking in on someone, but it just like it like like the discomfort is so visceral in those scenes that you can really see that this is something that is still drain lords. If i don't think about it, it can't hurt me.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yeah, I also, it starts to become grating. For me, this is like the point in the movie where it was like, it started to become grating, just like how apologetic his character is.
00:46:40
Speaker
Because I am also very apologetic. Yeah, no, I agree. it It's like painful to watch. And it's like in his posture and like the way that Owen carries themselves. It's like,
00:46:52
Speaker
Just trying to like shrivel away and like not be perceived. Yeah. So when he's driving home from work, he sees a downed power line and like a fallen tree branch that are blocking the road.
00:47:04
Speaker
And so obviously he like stops his car. There are papers scattered everywhere outside. And he picks it up and sees that this is the destroyed episode guide to the Pink Opaque.
00:47:17
Speaker
And he picks up one of the pieces of paper and it says season six, episode one, escape from the midnight realm. But as far as we know, the pink opaque was canceled after season five. So there is no season six, episode one. Like there's no season six. We know that Owen knows that.
00:47:34
Speaker
And here we are, season six, episode one, escape from the midnight realm. And it's basically immediately after that, that Owen runs into Maddie at the grocery store.
00:47:46
Speaker
She is standing there like silently just staring at him and holding like holding like a large raw steak in her hand, like not a package of raw steak, but just like directly holding a large raw steak.
00:48:01
Speaker
The non-binary chaos of that scene of just them like standing there. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And it takes Owen like a minute to recognize Maddie, but eventually they do.
00:48:15
Speaker
And Maddie is like, I know somewhere where we can talk. And they go to a bar on like the outskirts of town. And, you know, she's like, I know somewhere where it'll be safe for us to talk. And like brain goes to queer bar, right? Like brain goes like that's the first thing that I think of is like, this is a gay bar probably that they're about to go to.
00:48:38
Speaker
And we don't get like explicit confirmation of that, but that's like the vibe, right? Like we live in this suburb. I know this like one place that we can go and talk openly, right? doesn Like it it's like, this is the safe place for us in this shitty little town.
00:48:52
Speaker
Before we get to see their conversation, we see like a really extended performance by a band of just like beautiful queer women And it is just a stunning performance.
00:49:06
Speaker
And i like pulled this is the song that I like pulled some of the lyrics from. pulled all the lyrics. I don i don't know if I'll read literally all of them. The song is called Claw Machine.
00:49:17
Speaker
and it's written by Sloppy Jane and Phoebe Bridgers. And it was written for the film. so the So the first verse says, i saw the TV glow. I'm in the eighth grade, sending grown men grainy photos of my rib cage.
00:49:31
Speaker
My bedroom has no doors, so I can never close them. I paint the ceiling black so I don't notice when my eyes are open. So we're just like right in that like the misbehavior. i don't want to like label it misbehavior, right? But the like kind of risque behavior of like, well who the fuck am I? Like, who am I to other people?
00:49:51
Speaker
Like, how do I relate to other people? And then that dissociation of like, I paint the ceiling black so I don't notice when my eyes are open. Yeah. And I mean, also to just like the lack of like any autonomy that you have as a kid and like talking to strange men on the internet and like sending them your like nudes or whatever, like that is like the rebellion you can do often.
00:50:18
Speaker
That was like such a millennial thing to like talking to fucking men on the internet and like getting Yeah, it gives like Omegle vibes, right? Like AIM, Yahoo Messenger. yeah and then the second part of the verse says, and somewhere south of Tallahassee, a teenage boy with a summer job, he's driving grown men around a golf course.
00:50:39
Speaker
He's going home to a manicured lawn and digging holes in his manicured lawn, right? So we have, again, like that mundanity and this like boringness, right, of like a teenage boy living in his like white picket fence house and he's got the job, but he hates it. He's going home and digging holes in his manicured lawn. Right. He's he feels the need to destroy this perfection that is there. And like, again, it's just so.
00:51:07
Speaker
yeah Like he feels a need to destroy the perfection that this manicured lawn represents. Right. Which like suburbia represents. Yeah. And then the next part of the song is, i think I was born bored.
00:51:18
Speaker
i think I was born blue. i think I was born wanting more. i think I was born already missing you. It's so sad. It's so sad. It's so sad. I'm like laughing, but it's so sad. and it's just right. Like i i I was not built for this is like really what i feel in that in those lines is just like I was not built for this.
00:51:42
Speaker
I was built for something different than this. And I don't even know what the different thing is, but I know it's not here. Yeah. Yeah. And like the last line, like i was born already missing you is like is haunting.
00:51:54
Speaker
And then the next part of the song is, but my heart is like a claw machine. Its only function is to reach. It can't hold on to anything. No, I can't hold on to anything.
00:52:05
Speaker
And it's kind of makes me think of like what I said before about like the deepest parts of Owen and Maddie, like reaching for each other without them having any of the social and emotional skills to actually connect. They're just reaching out, but they don't know how to hold their connection because it's so beyond them.
00:52:25
Speaker
and think particularly for Owen, but I think for both of them to an extent, it's so far beyond anything they can engage with, that it's just like a, that yearning, that like constant reaching out, but like inability to sustain anything.
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that it's even, it it goes beyond like just being emotionally immature. kids and like clumsy, like whatever, teens, tweens, because it's like just as queer kids, like we so often never have any representation. We just don't even know what it's like, what it looks like to be queer and to be like grown up. And, and all we know is maybe that like the dominant, like we don't fit the dominant culture.
00:53:12
Speaker
And then the last part of the song, ah which I think we don't hear quite as well in the movie, but is still, I think, interesting, is when my best friend started driving, we never went to class.
00:53:25
Speaker
The worst part of the car crash was talking to her dad. I said I wasn't scared, but I was thinking it. You know it's a mistake when it's me who is making it. It's always the wrong thing when it's me who is saying. it I just think that's sad. And like where I grew up, there were like a few really bad teen drunk driving accidents in the way that I think there tend to, i mean, not that that doesn't happen everywhere, but I think like when you live in the suburbs and there's nothing to do, all anyone is doing is drinking and like doing drugs and like trying to create any amount of excitement that they can muster. And so i like was really thinking about that when I was
00:54:07
Speaker
reading these lyrics and just like the self-loathing at the end, right? Like, you know, it's a mistake when it's me who's making it. And just that sense of being not someone to listen to, not someone to take seriously. Like there's just a like an ache in those lyrics.
00:54:23
Speaker
Yeah. That makes me think of your experience. Yeah. So we see this like absolutely gorgeous performance of this song, this really, really sad, really, really relevant song.
00:54:36
Speaker
And then we're finally going to see the conversation that Owen and Maddie are about to have. And Owen is telling Maddie that she should go to the police because like everyone thinks that she's dead. And he's asking like, does your mom even know that you're alive? She kind of puts off these questions and these statements and she asks Owen what he remembers about the pink opaque, but also like how he remembers it.
00:55:01
Speaker
And she asks if he remembers it as just a TV show. And he says, yes, he remembers it as a TV show. And this is when we get the scene that you mentioned. This is where we get a brief flash to Owen in the bathroom wearing what looks like a dress. And at first we can't see him very well.
00:55:22
Speaker
ah But you can tell that that's who we're looking at. We're just seeing him through like a slit in the bathroom doorway. And then we're back with them in the present moment. And She says, are you sure that's all it was? And then it goes back to the flashback and we see younger Owen and younger Maddie. And Owen walks out of the bathroom in the dress, which looks an awful lot like Tara's magic dress.
00:55:46
Speaker
And she is looking at him and smiling. And it's kind of like it's the happiest that either of them really looks like in the whole thing.
00:55:57
Speaker
And I totally agree with you. Like there is an intimacy to that moment. She looks like she loves him. She looks at him like she loves him. yeah And you can see like just the only real moment, I think I'm like crying, like thinking about it, but it's like the only real moment of like queer joy for Owen's character in that moment.
00:56:19
Speaker
Just like rips me apart inside because he's just like smiling just a little bit. like just like you he can't even let himself smile, but it slips through just like the teeniest bit. And it's yeah. And I love a queer joy moment, but that's not really what this movie is.
00:56:38
Speaker
And so it's it's like it almost makes everything worse that you get this one moment of connection between them and connection of Owen with himself. Like it twists the knife on you.
00:56:50
Speaker
and Obviously, stories of queer joy are really important. But this one, and like, I think we'll get into this, you know, more as we get towards the end. But this story, and it's interesting, like my notes remind me more of notes I would take on a book than of a movie.
00:57:07
Speaker
but Maybe because of the monologues I get, like maybe just because of all the monologues and stuff. But this story is closer to a cautionary tale than anything else to me of like, you have to do this.
00:57:24
Speaker
You have to do it because if you don't do it, you will just suffocate for the rest of your life. And but they I guess, okay, like we' I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but that's where we're going. Right. And so this little tender moment is,
00:57:38
Speaker
hard to watch instead of a relief. You're like, you can't let yourself be relieved because you can tell that it's not, it's not going there. but Can I also say that during this monologue that, uh, or like the, I guess the beginning of the bar scene, i don't know when it was actually, but I just thought it was so ironic or like funny that Maddie gets a job on the outskirts of town in a fucking Build-A-Bear.
00:58:08
Speaker
And she's like, yeah, it's like stuffing the insides of, of like bears. And i was still, i just still felt like I was dying or whatever she says.
00:58:23
Speaker
And I have naturally the whole monologue in my notes. um So I'm going to read it. And I i know I said this at the beginning, but like, please watch the movie. Like if you're listening to this and you have, I never say this, but like if you're listening to this and you haven't watched the movie, just stop because like I'm butchering these monologues. I'm doing my best, but like the performances are just amazing. So they're sitting in this bar. We've just seen this scene of Maddie looking at Owen in the dress and And she says, do you ever get confused?
00:58:54
Speaker
Like maybe the memory isn't quite right. Like does time ever feel like it's not moving normally? Like it's all out of whack. Do you ever feel like you're narrating your own life, watching it play in front of you like an episode of television?
00:59:09
Speaker
Or do you ever have a hard time distinguishing what happened in the show and what happened in real life? Like somehow the memories just got jumbled around, shook up in your head like a snow globe.
00:59:20
Speaker
I'm trying to go slow. I don't want to alarm you. I came a very long way to see you and to ask you this. And this is like, this is, I think, like the first moment in my rewatch where I was like, this really is like the Matrix. Like this this movie is really like the Matrix, um which of course it is because they're literally about the same thing. But ah it's just interesting. And I think the the monologue, the monologues really nail that in.
00:59:46
Speaker
But she's talking to this person. who when asked if they like boys or girls says, I like TV shows, you know, and saying like, do you ever get confused about what was real and what was the TV show? And like, do you ever feel like you're just like narrating your own life and watching it play out?
01:00:07
Speaker
It's just carrying through that theme of like connecting to media as like the only avenue out. Yeah. Right. Like the only when you're like living in the suburbs or like wherever, like people feel trapped in all different situations. But like for me, I'm going to say the suburbs, like you're living in the suburbs and like media is like literally your only way out until you're an adult.
01:00:28
Speaker
Right. It's all you have. And so it's like he is already confused. And like she's basically like, aren't you confused? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like she's bringing some eloquence to, i think, what Owen was trying to say back then, but like couldn't really say. Yeah.
01:00:46
Speaker
And as they're like talking about this, we see again footage that goes back and forth between Owen and Isabel. And we see footage of Isabel walking in the magic dress and then Owen walking also in the dress alongside Maddie down a football field.
01:01:06
Speaker
And we see them standing there, Owen and Maddie, Owen in his magic dress, and the moon as Mr. Melancholy. So we see this like blending of the show and reality really starting to get more direct.
01:01:21
Speaker
And Maddie makes Owen basically promised not to tell anyone like he did last time. And Owen begs her to tell him where she's been all this time. She's been gone eight years, almost a decade.
01:01:35
Speaker
And she says that she's been there. She's been inside the show, inside the pink opaque. And then we get like another kind of extended performance scene with a different band. And it's like a much angrier sounding song. I didn't pull all of the lyrics out of this one, but this one is the one where the the like main line in the chorus is feeling like a psychic wound, which all of the songs are so relevant and like really touch on what the movie is trying to explore. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:03
Speaker
I remember thinking that he's so stuck in the past and um he's like really clinging to this, these like social constructs.
01:02:17
Speaker
And Maddie, i i think this what maybe was even, i don't know if this happens yet, but he's like, Maddie, you should go to the police or whatever. And she's like, that's not my name.
01:02:29
Speaker
And i just like, i I really admired the way that she's kind of just like so planted love. Or so like affirming of her experiences in the face of this person who, I mean, she trusts him for him. He's questioning it because he doesn't have his own insight into it. It's not like a denial or whatever.
01:02:55
Speaker
And it's not a denial of her, right? Like, I think that's like the crucial thing, right? It's not a denial of her. It's really only a denial of Owen. Yeah. Yeah, but that just felt so powerful to see Maddie's character just be so, like, empowered. She's really grounded in, like, her truth as she understands it.
01:03:14
Speaker
Yeah. Maddie tells Owen that she has to go back there, and she asks him if he remembers how the final episode went. And she tells him, you can't trust anybody in your life. They're all working for him, Mr. Melancholy.
01:03:28
Speaker
And she asks him to meet her at the high school the following night. And when Owen gets home, he goes through the tapes and finds the final episode. And he tells us that he got this tape after Maddie disappeared. She sent him one last tape and it was the final episode.
01:03:46
Speaker
And we see scenes from the episode and Owen narrates it to us. In the episode, Tara and Isabel need to meet again in person. They haven't seen each other in person since they were at sleepaway camp in the first episode.
01:04:00
Speaker
And Owen is narrating and says, isabel follows the sound of terra's voice in the psychic plane back to their old sleepaway cam she finds her at the dock by the lake the place where they first spoke five seasons ago but then as isabel approaches she picks something up a stray signal from the psychic plane it's a desperate message from tarra the real tarra she's buried underground in terrible danger Mr. Melancholy had got to her first.
01:04:30
Speaker
And then Marco and Polo, the weird moon demon twins, grab Isabel and bury her too. And Owen says, they cut out her heart.
01:04:41
Speaker
They feed her Luna juice. And then he makes an entrance, Mr. Melancholy, the big bad. And we see Isabel's heart go into a fridge with another heart, both of them still beating. And this other heart, you know, presumably is Tara's heart.
01:04:58
Speaker
I think that this is maybe the scariest moment in the most like literal sense of the word scary. We see Mr. Melancholy looming over Isabel and therefore over us.
01:05:11
Speaker
And his face is changing, like not changing, but it's like warping and like the texture is shifting around. And he says, don't fight it.
01:05:22
Speaker
Let my poison work its magic. You're going to love the Midnight Realm. It's such a wonderful prison. And as he's saying this, he shows her a snow globe.
01:05:34
Speaker
And inside the snow globe, we see young Owen, like the other actor, like the little kid of Owen, sitting in front of the TV. And Mr. Melancholy shakes up the snow globe.
01:05:47
Speaker
And when he shakes it up, we flash back to child Owen under this like pride flag colored parachute in gym class like all those years ago. And Mr. Melancholy says, it's okay.
01:06:00
Speaker
Soon you won't remember anything. your real name, your superpowers, your heart. You won't even remember that you're dying. And Owen tells us they buried her alive and then it just ended forever.
01:06:18
Speaker
When the show ends, when the episode ends, Owen is basically having an asthma attack. He is like gasping for air and wheezing and that sets off something that's going to kind of carry through to the end of the movie.
01:06:33
Speaker
Can we talk about the way that he says, you won't even remember that you're dying? Yeah. Is like horrific.
01:06:45
Speaker
ah It's like terrifying. um Because then like, i mean, I feel like what you were saying earlier about the cautionary tale is like, this is where you end up, if you don't confront your queerness or whatever, like reckon with it.
01:07:06
Speaker
And it's like, it's such a scary scene. Like it's, it's so distorted. And I think you're right. Like the delivery of that line is really, really powerful and just like, ah just like viscerally upsetting. And when I think about people coming out and realizing they're queer and like figuring out how to, how that, what that looks like in their lives, it's that thought of we're never out of time until we're out of time, but we're also always running out of time.
01:07:36
Speaker
Right? Like we're all dying. That's like a weird thing to say, but it's true. Like, like we're, we're all dying. You know, when people talk about the idea of wanting to live forever, I've like never understood that. That's like something that's always seemed really strange to me because i feel like dying is the only thing. Like, and I guess this is like existentialism to an extent, right? But like dying is the thing that makes anything matter.
01:08:01
Speaker
If we're here forever, nothing really matters. You know what i mean? So we're all dying and we're all running out of time And it's like, how do we make sure that we're dying well? Like, how do we, you know, like, how do we make sure that as we all burn through our time on this freaking planet, that we're doing it right by ourselves?
01:08:25
Speaker
ah Yeah. And i I think that's maybe one of the reasons that I chose this movie, because it was such a like, tipping point for me of like, oh, I should change my name and like be openly a non-binary whatever, like, which I don't, you know how I feel about like gender.
01:08:44
Speaker
I don't really understand it also. So I say these days that I'm gender queer, but I've always like disliked my name, you know, and I feel like you have, This is something that I like admire about you is that you have like a real sense of like that, like that death is looming. It's around the corner.
01:09:04
Speaker
And maybe I don't because I, I don't know. i think so much of my childhood is, was so like, ah defenses were just up.
01:09:16
Speaker
And so in that sense, I've had like several puberties and like reincarnations. But I just feel like that's maybe why i love this movie so much is because it's like so confronting both like existentially with like death, but also living your truth. And and that sounds like cliche.
01:09:39
Speaker
Cliche things become cliche for a reason. I do think about death a lot, but I don't worry about death a lot, if that makes sense. I mean, I think that's always been like part of what I like about horror movies is like, I think that there's a point where this becomes...
01:09:53
Speaker
less helpful and more maybe unhealthy, more destructive. But I think like we all do need kind of like ongoing reminders that were we're not here forever. And like we better do what we want to do with our time here as best we can.
01:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like for me, you know, one of the things about this movie that I love so much is just And again, i don't know that like this feels strictly related to queerness. I think this just like relates to just how I feel about life in general. But I feel like when I was in therapy in high school, my therapist was like, you need to get the fuck out of here.
01:10:33
Speaker
Like she was like, I'm going to help you survive the next four years. And then you need to get the fuck out of Dodge and like find your place because this is not it. And I'm so thankful for that because, you know, you can feel that internally, but to have an adult that you trust, like verify that for you and be like, I see you. And like, I see that this place is just sucking your soul out of your body.
01:10:59
Speaker
and like, if you need, if if you want to get your soul back, you're going to have to claw your way to something different. I feel like that was something that I've had, like my eye on the prize. I need to get to a place where I can live life on my terms and where I can be the person that i want to be. And like, I don't know that I knew who that was back then, but I think I just had that sense of like, I'm going to drag myself through the dirt to get to where I need to be, wherever that is.
01:11:32
Speaker
And so that like just really resonates with me about this movie. And it it feels, you know, and we'll talk more about this at the end, but this movie to me is like there, but for the grace of God go i right? Like that's like how I feel about this movie. It's like, maybe I never had that therapist. Maybe i whatever, one like any number of a million things happen that gets me off my path and I stay and i just wither away into dust, into like a shell of a person, you know? and And it's just like so, it's just so personal. It feels like such a personal story. Yeah.
01:12:11
Speaker
So Owen is wheezing and gasping for air. And then the fire alarm is going off in the house. And we see his dad kind of run around trying to figure out what's going on. And we see Owen,
01:12:25
Speaker
who is shoving himself into the TV, which is like electrified and like shooting off sparks and smoking. And like his dad tries to pull him out of the TV and he's like desperately trying to crawl his way back into the TV. And he's like screaming in agony. It's like he's getting burnt by these sparks, but he's still trying to get back in.
01:12:48
Speaker
And his dad takes him out and takes him into the shower where like my interpretation of that is like he was just burnt by all this electricity. So he's like in the cold water and he is g screaming and crying.
01:13:01
Speaker
and he says, this isn't my home. You're not my father. And he's he's like screaming that. And then Owen vomits up what basically looks like sparks and TV static.
01:13:13
Speaker
And then again, it like flashes back to that image of the burning TV, just like from when Maddie went missing like a decade ago. I think I'm making the connection for the first time that Maddie went into the show through the TV and that's why it was like maybe burning.
01:13:31
Speaker
And then Owen tries to do the same thing. So that's the night after they talk at the bar. And then ah the next day he goes and meets her at the high school and the planetarium is set up in the gymnasium, which is the way Maddie likes the school. On the night that they were voting, she was talking about how she likes voting day because it turns the school into something different. And it reminds her of when they bring the planetarium. So it's kind of a callback to ah Maddie liking the school best when it's in a state of being something different, right? Like not really being her school.
01:14:08
Speaker
And she tells him about where she's been. She tells him that she went to Phoenix, but like nothing had really changed. And I have have this whole monologue down too, because it's just so good.
01:14:19
Speaker
And she says... I got out of that town, that place I knew would kill me if I stayed. But something was still wrong, wronger even. Time wasn't right. It was moving too fast.
01:14:30
Speaker
And then I was 19 and then I was 20. I felt like one of those dolls asleep in the supermarket, stuffed. And then I was 21, like chapters skipped over on a DVD.
01:14:42
Speaker
I told myself, this isn't normal. This isn't normal. This isn't how life is supposed to feel. i thought about running away again, about moving to Santa Fe and changing my name one more time.
01:14:53
Speaker
But I knew everything would be just the same. I had seen how it ended. i knew where I was. And she says that a little bit after her twenty second birthday, She paid someone to bury her alive.
01:15:06
Speaker
She tells Owen, I said to myself, this is crazy. What you're doing is crazy. But another part of me knew that it wasn't, that it was survival, and that I didn't have much time, that what felt like years in this world was actually just seconds.
01:15:21
Speaker
She says after he buried her, she screamed for help and begged God for someone to come save her and tried to claw her way out, but she couldn't. And she says, Eventually, she clawed her way she says,
01:15:32
Speaker
i felt myself starting to leave myself and it was like i was watching myself on tv from across the room and then i was moving further and further away from the screen until the screen was so small that i couldn't even see myself anymore eventually she clawed her way back out and she says I was finally back there, back at our old sleepaway camp.
01:15:54
Speaker
And just like I was waking up from a bad dream, that whole life, that whole reality where I was Maddie Wilson drifted away, like a brief hallucination that after a few moments I could hardly even remember.
01:16:08
Speaker
All those memories that had felt so real washed away with the rain back at our old sleepaway camp. And I was me. I was finally me again. And it was the season six premiere.
01:16:19
Speaker
I tried looking for you, but Mr. Melancholy covered his tracks too well. I knew you must be buried somewhere close by, but I didn't know where. And your signal, that signal that I used to be able to close my eyes and feel so vividly, it was nowhere.
01:16:34
Speaker
I wasn't picking up anything on the psychic plane. I found my heart. Isabel, oh my god, I found yours too, and it was still beating, stored indefinitely in an industrial freezer.
01:16:46
Speaker
I left our hearts there because I knew I wasn't done yet. I found Mr. Melancholy's cauldron. I found the Luna juice he used to send us to the midnight realm. And I took a big sip straight out of the ladle, and I laid back down, and I waited to fall asleep.
01:17:01
Speaker
I knew I needed to come back here. I knew I needed to come back and save you so that the show can continue, so that we can get to season six. This is where he calls her Maddie and she says, that's not her name. Oh.
01:17:15
Speaker
And she looks at him and tells her that he knows that this is true. He's like, this is insane. And he starts talking about his memories of growing up. And she says, the memories were put there to distract you.
01:17:28
Speaker
And like the memories were there were like only in his head to keep him trapped. And he says, this isn't the midnight realm, Maddie. It's just the suburbs. And my My assertion is Carly, my assertion is that the suburbs are goddamn midnight realm. Like I'm going to say the do is six in one, half a dozen in another, same shit.
01:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. She says that they need to go back down into the soil. She tells him the longer you wait, the closer you get to suffocating. And again, we get flashes to younger Owen standing in that same dress, that dress that looks so much like Isabel's magic dress.
01:18:08
Speaker
And he's staring at himself in the mirror. And again, we see just the tiniest hint of a smile, but like the closest thing to a real smile that we get from Owen in the entire film.
01:18:19
Speaker
They're walking along the football field and she says, I know it's scary. That's part of it. And Owen, they're walking towards where she intends, I guess, to bury them both alive again.
01:18:31
Speaker
and Owen says, it's just like the Drain Lords. It's not real if I don't think about it. And he tackles Maddie and runs away. When Maddie is like, my God, I found your heart too.
01:18:44
Speaker
Owen says that he didn't leave the house for days after this happened. He said he kept waiting for Maddie to show up and force him underground, but she didn't and he never saw her again. And he says...
01:18:57
Speaker
I told myself I made the right choice. Maddie's story was insane. It couldn't be true. But some nights when I was working late at the movie theater, I found myself wondering, what if she was right?
01:19:09
Speaker
What if she had been telling the truth? What if I was someone else? Someone beautiful and powerful. Someone buried alive and suffocating to death. very far away on the other side of the television screen.
01:19:23
Speaker
But I know that's not true. That's fantasy, kid stuff. And at this point we see the street again, the suburban street with all the chalk drawings. And at this part of the movie, over all of the chalk drawings in big pink and white letters and handwriting that looks like Maddie's handwriting are large letters and it's written, there is still time.
01:19:46
Speaker
It's just devastating.
Themes of Change and Personal Growth in the Movie
01:19:48
Speaker
Yeah. Is this before or after he says i had to become a man before? Okay. It's right before that.
01:19:57
Speaker
Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I felt like that was like a personal message for me when I saw that. And just, I'm sure other people feel that way too. I think it was like, I think actually that's the thing about this movie. I think that was a message to you.
01:20:13
Speaker
I think it was a message to me. I think it was the thesis statement of the movie, right? Is there is still time. yeah The person, the director of this movie basically made this movie in the process of, in the immediate aftermath of coming out as trans.
01:20:29
Speaker
Wow. And I think that this is that, right? It's a message to, i think, particularly kids, but I think also anyone of it's never too late.
01:20:40
Speaker
You know, it's never too late. There's always still time. But you have to remember that you're dying. Yeah.
Life's Urgency and Search for Meaning
01:20:46
Speaker
Literally, like I know, like I know there are peoplem not really my friends because I think you guys are used to it. But I know there are people who think it's weird how much I think about death. But like, I just do.
01:20:58
Speaker
And like, this is kind of how it makes me feel of like you like you have to hold both of these things of like you are dying and the world is ending and your life is ending and you still have time left. So what the fuck are you going to do?
01:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, i i I mean, I think about death every single day also, but I don't feel like I have the same like urgency around it.
01:21:26
Speaker
This movie helped me realize that there's like like if you have something to live for, if you find your like meaning or your purpose or whatever in life, then you feel then it feels like you have something to live for.
01:21:40
Speaker
And I feel like for so much of my life, I was so disconnected. i was like, oh, and just like so disconnected to the like magic in me.
Self-Fulfillment and Personal Realization
01:21:50
Speaker
Because I just feel like i don't have a grasp of the worth of life because I don't have any like meaning attached to it which is sad, which is also something that this movie like makes you reckon with.
01:22:03
Speaker
Maybe part of the message of the movie is like that you are the meaning of your life. Yeah. I mean, like ah it's empowering in that sense, because it's like you make your life. Nobody's going to come rescue you.
01:22:16
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think that's a big part of it, right? That he's like, I waited for her to come force me to do it, but she didn't. and And I think it's kind of one of those things of like, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Like, like someone can extend the hand so many times, but you have to be willing to reach out and grab it. Yeah.
01:22:33
Speaker
And Owen has had two opportunities now to grab that lifeline and hasn't been able to. Eventually, so more time passes and the movie theater closes and he goes and works at what's called the Fun Center. It's kind of like a Chuck E. Cheese type of place.
01:22:53
Speaker
And we find out that his dad died of a stroke like a couple of years after this all happens. And we get more narration. And like i i like love effectively used monologues, which is probably part of what I love so much about this movie.
01:23:08
Speaker
But Owen says, time moves fast these days. Years pass like seconds. I just try not to think too hard about it. I decided to stay in the house. It was time for me to become a man, a real adult, a productive member of society.
01:23:23
Speaker
And that's exactly what I did. i even got a family of my own. I love them more than anything. And when he says, i even got a family of my own, I love them more than anything.
01:23:35
Speaker
The delivery in this of every line in this movie is so good because he looks so earnest, but it's like there's an there's still like a hollowness to him that becoming a an adult, becoming a productive member of society, having this family like has not filled this like massive hole in his heart.
01:23:56
Speaker
ah whenever Maddie is talking about like how this isn't normal, this isn't how it feels. And like the way that you don't even, you don't see his family. you don't see...
01:24:09
Speaker
Even like anything in it, you don't even see the inside of the home that he's made. Like you see him dragging a TV in through the door. And I like it just reminded me of how I felt when I was literally married to a man.
01:24:26
Speaker
i've been waiting for you to bring that up.
01:24:31
Speaker
I've literally even been like waiting. I mean, I whatever. Like i I would have probably asked you about it at the end because I know it's not a secret, but I have been like, when are we when are we going to get to the marriage part, Jasmine?
01:24:43
Speaker
Because I just had like it's so funny being like a lesbian who's been married to a man who sort of had to be convinced that they were a lesbian. Yeah.
01:24:54
Speaker
Yeah. um Well, and I think in part because I am so, like, confused about gender that I'm, like, I don't know what this... who who Like, I've always been by really, you know?
01:25:07
Speaker
And I'm a lesbian who's, like, doesn't matter what your sex parts are. Like, that's silly. But anyway, so I was just, like... Like, the whole time I was married to this man, I was, like...
01:25:20
Speaker
had this quiet little thought in the back of my mind. I was just like, is this it? Like, is this going to be the rest of my life? This can't be what other people are feeling. Like this can't be what like the magic of like a marriage is or like romance or like any of it. Just it felt like i something inside of me was broken and Which is not true, but that's just how you internalize a lot of things.
01:25:47
Speaker
And it felt like really like Maddie took the words out of my mouth. And then Owen's character does such a good job of being like, well, that's not real. Like that, like she's, she was like literally like in a fantasy world or whatever.
01:26:02
Speaker
And like, that's like that the the other part of like that experience for me was just like dismissing that. So immediately and being like, well, this is what you should want. Like, this is what...
01:26:14
Speaker
you're supposed to have, like you should be happy, which is just, yeah. I think
Imposter Syndrome and Authenticity in Gender Identity
01:26:20
Speaker
that's also like where some of the time jumps come in too, right? Because it's like the time is just slipping, right? And time is like very slippery anyway, like not to say that time is less slippery if you're like content. I don't think that's necessarily true, but I think the slipping of time feels so haunting and scary and like dark when you are so deeply unfulfilled and like hiding yourself so completely from yourself, from the world, from any chance of like really connecting because he loves his family. And I believe him when he says that, but his family doesn't know who he is because he won't tell them.
01:27:00
Speaker
And you can only love someone as much as they let you. Yeah. I feel like part of my genderqueer journey, trans journey, I was talking to my friend the other day and I was like, I like didn't consider myself trans. And they were like, non-binary is part of the trans community. And I was just like, you're right. Like, okay.
01:27:21
Speaker
um ah So I'm trying to like use that word more, yeah. actively struggling with this. We're kind of talking about that like queer imposter syndrome thing. And I think it's, that's one of the hard things about like coming into your queerness is that you spend like however long of your life feeling like an imposter of gender or an imposter of sexuality, like you're an imposter of cis heteronormativity.
01:27:48
Speaker
And then somehow you open yourself up to this other world and you still feel like a fucking imposter. Like you don't, you still feel like a fucking imposter. You don't even get to like drop that piece of it right away because this all is so messy and so deep and like so, just so complex. Right. And so it's like you're going to feel like an imposter anyway, maybe at least feel like an imposter in the right place for you.
01:28:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's just the so entrenched in so many like different power and subjugation and like in the matrix of like oppression.
01:28:28
Speaker
Matrix. Right. And those aren't my words. Those are like some money that I can't remember, but some but Google it. and Because the imposter syndrome part, like when it whenever he's like, you were saying like his family knows him and he has like relationships with them and he's built this life with them, but they don't really know who he is because he won't let them know.
01:28:47
Speaker
In my experience, Autistic brain or whatever it is. I don't know. Whatever it is that makes me not understand gender. Like I, this is why for so long I've been like, well, I'm like not a, I'm not like a woman, but like, that doesn't really matter because like,
01:29:05
Speaker
I don't know what a woman is anyway. And so like, why does it matter? Why does it matter what his gender is to his family if he's the same person on the inside? And it's like, well, the piece I feel like that that I was missing in that like puzzle is like you're creating your like you have to be yourself to yourself.
01:29:28
Speaker
And like he is i like I think he's deeper in like the denial than I have ever been. But But it's like it does change who you are when you're seen by other people and when you are like taking up space in the way that you in the way that like the little, i don't know, little potato that lives inside of you that has a gender expression, like, you know?
01:29:56
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, first of all, same on the not understanding gender. Frankly, no one's ever explained it to me in a way that was like sufficient to me. So, you know, I know people do have an internal sense of gender, but no one has ever explained it in a way where I was like, that's just like who you are generally. Like, I don't, I don't get it either, but I think what you just said is totally true. And then I think on top of that, i don't really experience like gender dysphoria, particularly.
01:30:26
Speaker
um i definitely like i I also identify as genderqueer, but i don't. Yeah, I don't I don't really feel like a lot of experiences of dysphoria. And I think womanhood is also an important part of my identity in that it affects the way that I'm treated and it affects the way that I can move through the world. So like it's as important for me that someone else recognizes that I'm a woman as they recognize that I'm not a woman. Like those are equally, those are like equally important to me. And so I don't really have experiences of dysphoria and i don't bristle at like any particular pronoun, but that's not true for everyone.
01:31:03
Speaker
And i you know, you imagine these are the closest people in Owen's life, just constantly misgendering them. And like, we're misgendering them. Like, that's the mess of this whole thing. Because it feels inappropriate to like, give someone a title that they're not choosing to wear. But like, these are the people closest to Owen who are also hurting him every single day.
01:31:27
Speaker
Like, not even knowing that they're hurting you know what i mean? Like, there's something... about that part of it that is so disconnecting and so just like upsetting that maybe they know, maybe they have some inkling, maybe they have literally no idea, but every day they are referring to Owen in a way that probably feels like shit, even if Owen can't really figure out why.
01:31:54
Speaker
This is the part that, i guys it's like that part that is like when you start using like they pronouns or you start like presenting like one way or another that's more like gender affirming for you.
01:32:08
Speaker
And you start to feel that like, that like feel seen and in a way that is like euphoric and like affirming. There's like this little part of you that's like, oh my God, this is so good.
01:32:22
Speaker
And even if you don't think that it like, because I guess if you had, that I'm guessing if you had this conversation with Owen, they would be like, it doesn't matter that much. You know? If I don't think about it, it can't hurt. Yeah.
01:32:36
Speaker
And it's like, if you like that little, that moment that, that she's wearing a dress as like your whole life could be that if you, if you let it Yeah, that can be your whole life if you decide to let it be. And yeah, I mean, it's just really it's devastating. And this is like the part of the movie where we go like, you know, we opened with him at the campfire by himself at night. And then it was like, I bet you're wondering and how we got here. Like, obviously, that's not the tone that the movie takes. But like structurally, um you know, we start with him in the fire and he's like, well, this is going to tell you my story. And now we're back at that point. So we've like come full circle.
01:33:16
Speaker
We're back where we started with Owen at the campfire by himself in the woods, ready to watch the Pink Opaque again. And he talks about what it was like. He talks about how it's all streaming. Like, you don't even need a disc anymore. Like, whatever. And he says, i started the Pink Opaque again. And it was nothing like I remembered.
01:33:36
Speaker
The whole thing felt cheesy and cheap. Dated. Not scary at all. I just felt embarrassed. the show, we see it. Like, we also see it.
01:33:47
Speaker
And we're seeing the Ice Cream Man episode. So where we have seen the version in Owen's head, and then now we have seen the version that actually exists. Or, like, maybe, right? Like, it's kind of more complicated than that. But the version we're seeing now is, like, a total joke. It's very hokey.
01:34:03
Speaker
There are no real effects. It's very, like, childlike problem-solving. Like, they're, like... the ice cream man is here and like he's going to be here forever, but we can't eat ice cream in the winter. And like the solution is like he can be the soup man in the winter. Let's have a soup party. Like it's so, it's so childish.
01:34:21
Speaker
And it's more childish actually than like a lot of these types of shows were, right? Like because there were these kind of more mature, complex shows, but it breaks it down like much to a much lower level than that.
01:34:33
Speaker
And Owen is like so disappointed by this. This is just like the part where I was like, that was almost me kind of thing. Because it's so scary to think about the life that I would have if I didn't divorce my husband. Even though was always like ah in in a queer space, it was very still like dominated by like heteronormative people.
01:34:57
Speaker
things And there was there was no space for like queerness. Right. Like the difference between like being gay and being queer. Yeah. Like queering your life is different than coming out.
01:35:09
Speaker
Yeah. Like i've I could be in that relationship like a hot girl who kisses girls. But like that was like the extent of my queerness. And then I and just like thinking about how disconnected I was from that part of myself in that season of my life.
01:35:26
Speaker
And almost how you can look at people who are like living your... It's like that that cringe factor of like, cringe is just like, being genuine is being cringe.
01:35:37
Speaker
Like the the conflation of the two. You know, the imagery
Critical Scenes: Owen's Breakdown and Self-Revelation
01:35:41
Speaker
of this movie is like, you have to kill yourself to move on. Not in the literal sense, right? But you have to kill like... sorry, the old Taylor can't come to the phone anymore. Why? Because she's dead.
01:35:50
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean? Like you have to kill the version of yourself that cringes. You have to kill the version of yourself that would have made fun of you. Like you have to, you have to like let that version of you die so that the real version of you can like emerge from those ashes. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's courageous to be queer.
01:36:08
Speaker
Totally, totally. The next scene is Owen back at work now 20 years later. and again, like the time slips really feel like just nothing has happened. Nothing has changed.
01:36:21
Speaker
He's still working at the fun center. And there is even a pink opaque arcade game at the fun center. And he looks terrible. Not just like they made him look older, like obviously they made him look older 20 years has passed, but he just looks so run down.
01:36:37
Speaker
He's working a birthday party. And as they are singing happy birthday, Owen breaks down, just like screaming and shrieking.
01:36:48
Speaker
And as he is screaming, everyone just kind of stops and looks down. Like not, not like in the way of like, oh, they're trying to like avoid looking at him, but like they go into like standby mode, like they're NPCs.
01:37:00
Speaker
They just kind of like go to sleep. Yeah. He screams, you have to help me. I'm dying right now. And he's crying and like gasping for air. And then he kind of like comes to his senses a little and he says, sorry, ignore me.
01:37:15
Speaker
But he's struggling so much to breathe that he collapses. And then he screams for his mommy, which is horrible. Like there is nothing worse than a grown person crying for their mommy. There is just nothing like more heartbreaking, more agonizing, especially because his mom was like the supportive parent and she died when he was pretty young. And his dad obviously seems like pretty stunted emotionally and like pretty like toxic masculinity driven and all of these things.
01:37:46
Speaker
And he screams for his mommy and like no one reacts. They're still kind of in standby mode. And the next thing we know, he's sitting on the bathroom floor and a coworker is knocking on the door asking if he's okay.
01:37:58
Speaker
I just wanted to interject. I was going to see if you were going to highlight this, but everyone in the room stops and like the candles on the cake fizzle out.
01:38:09
Speaker
I think they stopped mit like before they blew them out and they were like these, they were like the sparkler ones and they like sparkled until they went out. And then i just, that was like, it was just that whole scene was like tragic. I don't know.
01:38:24
Speaker
Yeah. And next thing we know, he's sitting on the bathroom floor and a coworker is knocking and asking if he's okay. And it's clear that he is thrown up and what he's thrown up looks like Luna juice from the show and dirt.
01:38:41
Speaker
And he takes a box cutter and he cuts down the length of his bare chest and he doesn't bleed. And he cuts this long cut and he looks in the mirror and he pulls the cut open And he sees like the light from a TV screen like emanating out of him. And he looks like enraptured and almost kind of relieved.
01:39:07
Speaker
And it's kind of this feeling of like, this is still in me. But then it's over. And he's getting his uniform back on and still wheezing and gasping for air. And he goes back out into the fun center.
01:39:20
Speaker
and starts apologizing to everyone for his behavior before and nobody really even reacts to him. And then it's over. Like just like that. Like he's just out there apologizing, still still apologizing for himself and the movie just ends.
01:39:37
Speaker
no Yeah, that last part, i i when I was rewatching it for this podcast, I was like, that part, I can't not cry when I see that last.
01:39:51
Speaker
And then it's just, it's made so much worse by him seeing that he, that that this is real, like that Maddie was right, that everything that she was saying is true.
01:40:05
Speaker
and that maybe he is this like powerful person. And then he just like goes out and is apologizing profusely. Like ah people aren't even like noticing him.
01:40:20
Speaker
And he's like, I'm so sorry. you feel like he can't even get a breath. And like his his labored breathing is like so painful. Like it's just, oh my God.
01:40:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think especially with the with like the throw up looking like Luna Juice and dirt, right? It's like he's just still there buried underground and he hasn't gotten out and he hasn't let himself be buried enough to come out the other side.
01:40:49
Speaker
Literally, again, like come out the other side. And there's like a tiny flicker of hope as he's like looking at this TV in his chest of like, maybe this is it.
01:41:02
Speaker
Maybe he's going to rip himself open like all the way and be done with this like shell ah that he has been wearing around. And he doesn't. I think there's like one second where you kind of hope that he will, but you also have been watching this whole movie. And so there's a big part of you that also knows that he probably won't.
01:41:22
Speaker
And it's just, it's so tragic. It's so awful. And he's just suffocating. Like he's suffocating within himself. And Nobody notices and nobody helps and he can't stop apologizing for it.
01:41:39
Speaker
And he's like apologizing to everyone but himself. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think that we should hold against ourselves the times that we were not our so our true self, the times that we held back.
01:41:52
Speaker
But I feel like the only person he owes an apology to is himself. for not taking that chance, those two chances, right? And for not creating a chance somewhere else along the way. Like, he's apologizing to everyone but the person that he's hurt the most.
01:42:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i I think it's probably... I don't know. It's like, it's hard to say. just, it still feels like such a like battle to me. Like I see, i like, I see how hard he's like fighting and like, he's like contending with this part of himself.
01:42:32
Speaker
And it's like, it takes up so much of his being to be this other person that it feels like, It almost feels unfair to say that he didn't have, like, he didn't take those chances.
01:42:47
Speaker
There's a part of me that's like, i I don't know if he had a choice because of how just dominant culture is so dominating. And like, it just, there's like that little bit in me that's just like, ow, I don't know if he had a choice, especially being a black woman, like,
01:43:08
Speaker
in the I don't know so like there's like that part of it too I like have so much empathy for Owen and that feeling of not having a choice yeah but I I think my message it my takeaway from the movie I don't think this is like correct like correct by any means but I think just my takeaway from the movie is that it doesn't matter how little choice you feel like you have you have to do it.
01:43:34
Speaker
Like you have to do it anyway. That's like what I come away with is that like, it doesn't matter if you have to literally kill the old version of yourself and bury it in the dirt. Like you just have to do this thing.
01:43:47
Speaker
And
Conclusion and Future Podcast Episodes
01:43:48
Speaker
I think it's also, like you said, this being this other person is like taking up so much energy. for him and I think it's like with the wid that you know we keep coming back to the thing about like the drain lord monsters and if it's if I don't think about it it's not real if I don't think about it it can't hurt me and it's not true it doesn't matter how much he doesn't think about it it's killing him like it's just killing him I totally agree with that and that's that's my takeaway too
01:44:40
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this episode of What Haunts You, a podcast about the stories that haunt our dreams. Thanks again to Jasmine for being here for a conversation about a movie that we obviously both love and that means a lot to both of us.
01:44:54
Speaker
Next month is October, so we're going to have some good episodes coming up. We're going to be diving further into our Horror Through the Decades episodes and getting into 80s horror, which will be a blast, obviously.
01:45:06
Speaker
And I have an episode lined up for the end of the month that's going to be a perfect Halloween listen. So hopefully you'll check those out too. Thanks for listening and have a good day.