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The Thinking Gap Is Widening. Don't Fall Behind with Mike Reading
7 Plays9 days ago
In this follow-up with Mike Reading, we get real about his build journey since we last talked. Mike's now part of a founder lab, working to refine his approach to scaling {RDT} DevAI, and operating inside the pressure of building something that matters.
In this conversation we dive a little deeper and break down the art of critical thinking, why it’s a muscle, why it’s at risk and why leaders who stop training it will fall behind fast.
Because better tools don’t make better decisions. Better thinking does.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast Focus
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our take on talent, people trends, and the reality of building up businesses in an economy that keeps rewriting the rules.
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I'm Amy Crook, founder of Strativist.
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And I'm Erin Totis, managing director of talent delivery, which basically means I live in the universe of finding the right people to make an impact for our clients fast.
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Around here, we talk about the real side of HR and talent, what works, what absolutely doesn't, and how to build teams that can carry a business, not drag it down.
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We'll break down trends, share the behind the scenes of scaling a consultancy from zero, and probably overshare a little because that's where the good lessons live.
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So whether you're building, hiring, leading, or just trying to keep your company profitable, you're in the right place.
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This is Fractional Frequency.
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Let's get to it.
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That's a great intro.
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Well, we might as well keep on rolling.
AI in Leadership and Business Evolution by 2026
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We are definitely on our A-game this evening, but I am so excited to reintroduce and re-welcome Mike Reading to the show.
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Mike is the founder and CEO of Regen Design Labs, and we sat down and had a conversation with Mike a couple of months ago and had to have him back on to revisit and dive a little bit deeper into a few topics.
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Mike and team have developed an AI co-pilot tool that helps leadership teams strengthen clarity and judgment inside real work before execution gets expensive.
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An active member of Founder Labs and cohorts, we are so happy to have him back.
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Welcome, Mike.
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Hey, thanks for having me back.
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Welcome back.
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It's so good to have you back.
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And I don't think we've gone a week without talking since we met you the last time.
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So it's definitely cool to continue following your journey and we're still loving using your tool and super excited to dig a little deeper into this space of AI in the workforce in this, the year 2026.
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Well, me too.
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When you said we hadn't gone a week without talking to me, I didn't know if that was going to be a good thing or a bad thing.
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So I'm glad we landed on that one.
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Good, good.
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And let's kick off and talk a little bit about this sort of, this evolution that we're seeing and hearing all about, this sort of transition from almost thinking to prompting, if you will.
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I feel like every time this topic comes up in conversation,
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there's comments about just the pace of change.
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And so really excited to pick your brain about that.
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So Mike, in recent months, where have you seen AI genuinely improve work quality?
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Yeah, so I mean, I kind of break down the work stream into four components, input, decision, action, result.
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And so something you can, I know it gets more nuanced and you could split it up, but where I've seen it really thrive is in those areas of input and of action.
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So we are overwhelmed with communication, we're overwhelmed with big data and making some correlations, some themes, being able to process that information quickly, AI has just made that a lot easier.
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I don't know if it's made it quieter, but I was able to consume and condense and summarize a lot more of that information to help give a launching pad.
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And then in realm of execution, some of those lower level tasks that weren't as complex or kind of something that kickstarts your creative thinking, your strategic planning, it helps kind of take that raw material, piece it together.
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That's something that you can kind of begin to work and mold like, you know,
AI's Role in Creativity and Thought Processes
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clay in that sense.
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I've seen it do a lot of great things in those areas personally, just from what I've seen.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I feel that, you know, certainly in a number of the things that we do on repeat, you know, the thing that comes to mind, you know, first is some of our social content.
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It's like the kind of thing that we have to do every single week to stay relevant and stay out in front of our audience.
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audiences and sometimes I'm sat there with writer's block or writer's block thinking about you know what should we shine a spotlight on this week and so you know having those tools to turn to to help just begin the ideation process and get through that is is incredible
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Yeah, I use that a lot too.
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I'm not going to lie.
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Yeah, you have to.
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You have to.
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You have to move fast.
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And so you spend a lot of time, Mike, in working on thinking patterns and how AI is complementing that and maybe shifting that in people.
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Are people using AI to sharpen their thinking or to avoid it?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So, you know, definitely to sharpen their thinking and to avoid it.
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I think right now we're looking at the ways that either passively or actively people are avoiding thought because of AI.
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There's a couple of terms I've heard lately.
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One is cognitive surrender.
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It's from a research paper.
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where people were working with AI in different groups, but in scenarios where AI was wrong, people were right.
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They still chose to outsource their thinking and judgment to trust AI answers, even if they're incorrect, because their assumption was that AI is superior because it's AI, right?
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And so they find the idea of cognitive surrender where we go against our own thinking and our own judgment.
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passively because we just assume it's superior.
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And so in that sense, it kind of, you know, avoid our thinking because we feel like it's inferior.
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But then the way we kind of use AI outside of work, it leaks into work too.
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There's another phrase I heard the other day called it to delegation.
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I guess everyone wants to use a lot of syllables, but it's the idea, you know, when you sit down to do something outside of work, you go into chat or plot or whatever, and you say, you know, help me think about this, help me prioritize this, you know, and we kind of delegate pieces of your labor.
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in the day-to-day life, you bring that same mentality of help me do this to AI or into your work with AI.
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And before you know it, the starting point of thought moves outside the person to the tool and it becomes the default mode that now you're quietly kind of defaulting your thought to something first and then you just take it and you execute it.
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So I don't think that that's common, but there are those that
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are also using AI as a way to kind of mirror your thoughts.
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You know, two phrases I rely on a lot is pay attention to your attention and think about your thinking.
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So it kind of helps you, you know, see what assumptions you're bringing in that aren't correct, where you're placing your attention, what you're missing, the signal amongst the noise.
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And then to think about your thinking, like, are you bringing in your own thinking?
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you know, fighting patterns that are just a repeat of the past.
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And is that fit the situation?
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And sometimes we have to kind of take a moment to say, am I being reactive or am I being purposeful in the way I'm forming my decisions?
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I love the think about your thinking, pay attention to your attention.
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I think that's a really great reminder for anyone listening.
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And it can be digging into these tools and leveraging them for thought and for an assist, I think can be a slippery slope.
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I've heard a lot of conversation about that just in the market over the last few months, especially.
Judgment and AI's Influence on Decision-Making
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Mike, when you're sort of assessing a situation or assessing a person's thinking, what signals tell you that that person might be relying too heavily on external answers?
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Hmm.
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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I don't know if this is unique to AI or just in general.
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First of all, I think we've been outsourcing our thinking long before AI came to the scene.
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I think it just makes it more accessible.
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But, you know, whether it be to top-down structures, kind of, you know, performance-driven behaviors that we're supposed to comply, but to... But the idea I look at is when you're, like, your performance reviews, your weekly one-on-ones, when you're focusing more on activity versus achievement,
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what I got accomplished versus what impact I had, what outcome was made, and it takes on a form of task management.
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That's for me, I see as a big indicator whether AI is used or not, where you've kind of outsourced your thinking and you're just purely, you know, kind of the caricature of high performance where you're optimized and efficient.
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You don't know what you're doing, but you've done a lot of it.
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And so when you come to the table with, here's all that I've done activity-wise, and you don't really know what that's achieved in terms of business effectiveness and outcomes, then you know you've outsourced your thought to anything along the way, whether it be AI or something else.
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So in general, that's the thing I pay attention to when listening to people talk about the work they do.
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Yeah, that's a good call out.
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Yeah, I think that's an interesting, you know, an interesting point that it's been, that's been happening long before AI.
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You know, I think, you know, I've certainly been in conversations where maybe starting, I'd say probably like five, six years ago, even where the theme started to shift away from activity to impact AI.
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and activity to productivity and starting to get really clear about the delineation between those things.
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So that makes a lot of sense.
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Mike, your background is in adult learning and I'm sort of curious for you to peel back another related topic for us a little bit.
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Can you talk a little bit about judgment?
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How does judgment develop and where can that process be interrupted at critical points?
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Okay, so I'll have to nerd out on you for a little bit here.
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So I'm a big fan of developmental psychology.
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It is a thing.
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But Carol Dweck, anyway, but so they would talk about, you know, the unique capacities that humans have, that people have for, you know, to actualize our potential in a system to make, you know, our ideas into action are really three capacities.
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It's scope of consideration, locus of control, and personal agency.
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So when you get to scope of consideration, you want to look at this external scope of not just self, not just ego, not just your own individual or group achievement, but self and system.
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You're aware of how your actions impact the larger system you're a part of and working in.
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And so when you're making decisions, you're able to have this external scope beyond just your momentary task.
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The next is the internal locus of control, where you don't believe that things are outside of your control, outside of your power.
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But you do have a say, you do have the ability to move and to judge and to make calls and make decisions that matter and that you have what it takes, that you're enough.
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And then last is personal agency, that actual freedom to shape the work around what you needed to look to make the outcome be achieved versus kind of being a slave to the process that becomes kind of a cold procedure.
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So when we talk about what makes the qualities and capacities that make judgment possible, it is people looking at a problem, being able to exercise this external scope of consideration outside of their own little task, this internal locus of control where they feel empowered and have the capacity and have what it takes to meet that moment with their own clarity and judgment, and then the personal agency to make the moves and shape the work and the processes to get that outcome achieved and that result finished.
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And what interrupts the process would be the inverse of that, where you're outsourcing your locus control to AI and your scope of consideration kind of shrinks into just what this tool tells me.
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And personal agency too, it just sits to where like, okay, this thing executes for me.
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So all of a sudden you're powerless, thoughtless and scopeless in the work that you do.
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But I think there's also, as I'm listening to that, there's so much opportunity for AI tools to play a supportive role, particularly in helping to expand your scope of influence and understanding as you consider a problem.
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Yes?
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Absolutely, yeah.
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And that's something that I really focused on, not that it's about my tool per se, but that's where I wanted it to really do is to expand and really mirror back mirrors on capacity and context to where it really does help one see their own scope of consideration, locus of control and personal agency and how do they exercise that with stakeholders and the value you're creating and the quality of thought and decision-making you're bringing to the moment.
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So it kind of empowers you to realize that you have the capacity and your context is in some sort of living curriculum and that it has everything you need for the answer in that moment.
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It's not going to be in a best list out there on LinkedIn feed somewhere.
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It's actually going to be found in the moment if you can just pay attention to your attention and think about your thinking long enough just to find it.
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Yeah, I think it's such good thoughts.
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I mean, it's like this tool comes along and everyone forgets that all the experience and the journeys that they've been on to get the knowledge, to get into the position that they're in, and they just trust something that's spat out at them.
AI's Impact on Leadership and Work Culture
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And it's really clear to see in spaces that are like,
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you know, legal or policy or anything like that, because it makes mistakes all the time.
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And so, yes, it's easier to not to to wear a mistake that's like creatively balanced.
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But you need to put the information into context.
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It's not going to do that for you yet.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Right.
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Probably soon, but not now.
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No, it's OK.
00:14:17
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And that kind of leads me to a question actually is like, where do you, does AI act as your thinking partner versus like replacing even like a leadership role?
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So I think that's a good question.
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I'll let Aaron take that one first.
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Yeah.
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No, where it becomes like a replacement versus a leadership role.
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I mean, I think that's where you do begin to kind of plug and play.
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I prompt, it gives an answer, and then I execute it.
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And I think that really the threat is not in the tool itself,
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Quite frankly, I think, and I may change my mind later, but I think lots of times it's in the culture in which you're working, that a speed and optimization are the ultimate status symbols and things that are celebrated and things that are financially rewarded.
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Then you don't have time to think, you just are reacting.
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And so the faster you make decisions, there's this false idea of, you know, fast decisions fail forward.
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It's not really usually it's fast decisions scale quickly, and then oh shit, it costs a lot of money to fix.
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And so I think it is really not even it's, it's less about the tool itself and your relationship with the tool and, and the permissions you have around you.
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to expand your thinking that drives it more because, you know, the sense of this false sense of urgency that I think we sometimes have created.
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And it's not because it's that things change so fast.
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I mean, they do.
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But also, I think we're just all about, you know, we're about data, data, data, speed, speed, speed.
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And those kind of force us into this false sense of over, you know, it's overly complex.
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And maybe sometimes we've kind of created our own prison during that.
00:16:03
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yeah that just like sparks a couple things for me is like one like where what happened in the relationships that people have with their leadership that this this is a better option than talking it through and i think
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A couple of things is like remote culture, right?
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Like you're alone.
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And so it's not as easy to have a conversation with somebody across the desk, like maybe you would have had if you were in the office a couple of days a week.
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But then did did strong leaders get lazy and just not invest in the development piece of people like to get to keep their critical thinking skills growing.
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Did that happen.
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I don't know.
00:16:51
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
00:16:53
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I've been thinking about that too, weirdly enough, because you've seen like the 20, 30 skills that we all need to be, you know, to make it in business.
00:17:01
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And a lot of those are in critical thinking, systems thinking, being adaptable and flexible.
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So I think probably where I kind of see this happening is it's not as if we don't give them tons of content and online courses and catalogs to go learn.
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But who's doing that?
00:17:19
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Who's doing that?
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No one's doing that.
00:17:21
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No one's doing that.
00:17:22
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Well, I mean, I remember working in corporate, you had all these licenses you could go.
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You could even go to a five-day workshop and you build bridges out of toothpicks.
00:17:30
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But then you go back into the real world and it gets lost in translation, you know?
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And it's not built into the work itself.
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I'm like, you know, what would the toothpick bridge say about this moment?
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And so really, it's just like we have these classes thinking, well, they'll be able to bridge the gap or mine the gap themselves.
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for my British friends.
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But yeah, we can't mind the gap because it's not, it takes you out of the context of work, puts you in kind of this foreign fabricated stuff.
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And then it just, it really is not taking place inside the work in real time.
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And I think development is only possible when it's embedded in real actual work.
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I'm having such horror flashbacks of so many like team building offsite days of like the plank of wood and you've only got two buckets and you've got to get across it.
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I'm like, that's never come up, you know?
00:18:29
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Not yet.
00:18:31
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All the problems I've been tasked to solve never has been getting across a field with a plank of wood and two buckets been one of them.
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So yeah.
00:18:39
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Well, you need to go down to Arkansas then.
00:18:41
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Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
yeah we don't do it like that in chicago um yeah i mean it's an interesting thought like obviously people are leaning into it which makes sense it is helpful i use it all day every day and
00:19:01
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I worry, and I think we touched on this a little bit last time too, is I just worry that there's the, your, the brain is going to like atrophy from not having to really think for itself and to be able to handle, you know, a real conversation or, you know, if you're working through a problem, I mean, do you just all have to go away and grab your phone or your laptop and then like come back?
00:19:29
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Like,
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And it does miss so much context.
00:19:32
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I mean, I love AI so much.
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My company name, the branding, it came up with everything in like two minutes.
00:19:44
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It didn't need to go to a designer or anything like that.
00:19:47
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It came up with everything.
00:19:48
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And I was like, yeah, love it.
00:19:51
Speaker
But I do think there's some challenges in business.
00:19:56
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In fact, a lot of them where you're either it's a it's a human centric problem that you're trying to solve or your product is trying to appeal to people.
00:20:09
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So like you got to put a bit a bit a bit of human into the into the equation to make it make sense for people.
00:20:19
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Yes.
00:20:21
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So how do you personally like integrate AI into your decision-making process?
00:20:29
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Oh, into my decision-making process or process.
00:20:33
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I'm learning.
00:20:34
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I'm not going to have language lessons.
00:20:39
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I'm learning.
00:20:40
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I know.
00:20:41
Speaker
I'm starting to recognize, spilling with an S instead of a Z. Yes.
00:20:47
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Yeah, so what I, so again, I have formed this whole product tool thing was kind of by accident.
00:20:54
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I kind of created my own thinking tool to help, that was rooted in living systems.
00:20:59
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So it did just turn my thinking back to me.
00:21:02
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And instead of just giving me answers or doing the work for me, it made me, it just was this, like literally a thinking partner that helped kind of reclaim my own unique clarity.
00:21:16
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and my own judgment because I never lost connection with the work.
00:21:19
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In fact, it gave me connection to the work with the thought I was developing with the stakeholders that I was working with from customers all the way to supply chain to investors.
00:21:30
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And then
00:21:31
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It helped me understand the kind of value that needed to be created in the moment because it just was helping me find what I already knew.
00:21:38
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But, you know, it's so easy to feel like you're not enough or to think you don't have enough time or just, you know, just take some time that were undigested masses of information that having something to kind of help digest things with.
00:21:52
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That's what I've done with my AI tool.
00:21:55
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And it's different because I've seen a lot, especially with working in Founder Studio, there's a lot of accelerators out there
00:22:01
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that says just lean on AI to help create your lean canvas and your narrative lean canvas.
00:22:07
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And there's this, you just give it a prompt and it spits out something that looks really nice.
00:22:11
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And so you just prompt it out and you have this false sense of confidence because of how it looks, but you've lost your own connection with your work.
00:22:18
Speaker
And so you start to talk to them about their unique value proposition or their problem solution fit and all of that.
00:22:24
Speaker
And they can't really articulate it that well because it didn't, it's been enough time to struggle with it, to let it come from within.
00:22:31
Speaker
And there was that tension that they didn't have to experience that creativity demands was never allowed because they went straight to the prompt and had this beautiful thing and it made them feel like it was complete.
00:22:42
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But they had no connection with it and it wasn't worth more than the sheet of paper was printed on.
00:22:47
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Not that it was printed on the sheet, but you know what I'm saying.
00:22:51
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It's not worth the $3,000.
00:22:54
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:22:58
Speaker
But it's such a good point, like that connection to what you're saying.
00:23:03
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It reminds me, there was one time earlier in my career, I had to do a presentation for the senior leadership team.
00:23:16
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And my leader at the time did not trust me to put together
00:23:21
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the material and I was like, no, I got it.
00:23:24
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I got it.
00:23:24
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:23:25
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I'm going to put together the material, but you can present it.
00:23:28
Speaker
That was probably the hardest thing that I have ever had to do is take somebody else's
00:23:36
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words in somebody else's point of view and try and repackage it as my own.
00:23:45
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It just didn't feel authentic.
00:23:47
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It was hard to get through.
00:23:50
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I mean, the difference between like that particular scenario and AI is that, you know, the more you use your tool of choice, the more
00:24:02
Speaker
it does get to know you, your voice and how and a little bit about how you think.
00:24:08
Speaker
But your tool takes it like to the next level because it's not trying to mimic you.
00:24:16
Speaker
The end result is you.
00:24:19
Speaker
it's it's much less around okay i've learned this this and this so i'm going to you know take these bits of information put it all together think this sounds like you and here here you go you know your tool uh really
00:24:36
Speaker
turns the question back to you to think about it from different angles until you get to an end point that feels authentic and it feels good.
00:24:51
Speaker
And you do have that connection to the material.
00:24:54
Speaker
You do have that connection to the point of view because you've worked through it yourself, but it's really hard to have that kind of dialogue with
00:25:05
Speaker
alone unless you are dealing with some challenges that mean you've got multiple things going on in your head.
00:25:13
Speaker
So you need something in this age of us working remotely and
00:25:21
Speaker
being independent you need something that's going to be able to have that conversation with you like you would hope a mentor or a leader um could do but they're you know they're just not there and so you're able to have that experience and get that clarity independently and which is why um we find your tools so beneficial
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah, and you said it well too.
00:25:48
Speaker
It's not really, and like you think AI, you think of either a generative or productive productivity tool, but it is more like a coach consultant, but not in the cheesy sense of some of these scripted things, but it's more rooted in, like you said, living systems.
00:26:03
Speaker
There's nothing really special about the AI tool, I'll be honest with you.
00:26:08
Speaker
It's the design thinking that drives it, that the tools define the behavior with the source knowledge,
00:26:13
Speaker
that it's given really is centered around restoring you to your own capacity for clarity and judgment and relying on your own lived context as the primary source of intelligence first.
Balancing Speed and Quality in Corporate Culture
00:26:26
Speaker
Doesn't mean you can't consider other things next.
00:26:28
Speaker
Let's say, let's get these two things, your own capacity, your own context, we get those things first.
00:26:35
Speaker
And then we begin to say what else needs to be considered after that.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:26:42
Speaker
So when you've been operating in this space, like what boundaries have you found it important to maintain?
00:26:52
Speaker
And, and you know, the folks that use your tools, the folks that you interact with, like, what do you, what do you recommend?
00:26:58
Speaker
What's your point of view?
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:27:03
Speaker
I don't know if I have a good answer to that one yet.
00:27:05
Speaker
Because I mean, it is still new for me in a lot of ways.
00:27:08
Speaker
I'm still learning all the different things.
00:27:10
Speaker
And especially with like, we talked about the marketing piece, like I still probably outsource a lot of that out of my ignorance.
00:27:18
Speaker
My AI tool is like, what do you think?
00:27:19
Speaker
It's like, I don't know, you tell me.
00:27:23
Speaker
What do you think?
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, what do you think?
00:27:25
Speaker
But I guess my guiding principle personally, and what I tell like founders who use this tool is they're building out, you know, the whole business model from supply chain to market chain.
00:27:35
Speaker
It is whatever you, however you use it, whatever you use it for,
00:27:39
Speaker
make sure that you can't lose your connection with your work.
00:27:44
Speaker
And that means every task that you do, just because you leave, sometimes I'll get in a deep dive with chat GPT and it'll be, you know, sales pipeline spreadsheet.
00:27:54
Speaker
And next thing you know, it's like a drug.
00:27:55
Speaker
It's like, I could also do this.
00:27:57
Speaker
This one shift will change your entire life.
00:28:00
Speaker
You do this and your hair will grow back.
00:28:01
Speaker
You want to know that?
00:28:02
Speaker
I'm like, yeah.
00:28:03
Speaker
And before you know, I've got like 28 different sheets on this question.
00:28:07
Speaker
Like what the hell did I just make?
00:28:09
Speaker
And so before you know it, it can get carried away with you and you can tell, like you just kind of get caught away and it's slipped up.
00:28:14
Speaker
So it's just like, don't lose your connection with what you're trying to achieve and what you're doing and think about your thinking, pay attention to your attention.
00:28:21
Speaker
Even in those moments to say, okay, is this really getting the objective I'm trying to reach and when is enough is enough?
00:28:27
Speaker
And when do I need to redirect?
00:28:29
Speaker
Because if you're not clear going into it,
00:28:31
Speaker
you're not going to be any more clear going out of it because they're just like, they want to keep you on as long as they can.
00:28:35
Speaker
They're like, we can take all the water in the world to feed our databases.
00:28:40
Speaker
We don't care.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:44
Speaker
Give us more.
00:28:49
Speaker
I guess the next level of that, like from like self, self moderation, how should leaders be guiding their teams to use AI responsibly?
00:29:02
Speaker
For me, I do think it is...
00:29:06
Speaker
so there are lower level and lower value tasks that you can completely outsource.
00:29:12
Speaker
And I think, you know, like let's just be blunt.
00:29:14
Speaker
We like the LinkedIn posts that we've talked about, you know, sometimes it's more about the discipline of posting every day.
00:29:20
Speaker
You don't have a lot of thoughts.
00:29:21
Speaker
You may have a couple of sentences, but you need something to build it around.
00:29:24
Speaker
I don't know, but if I have a week where I blatantly just been ripping stuff off chat GPT, I get told off by Erin.
00:29:33
Speaker
She couldn't speak.
00:29:34
Speaker
That's why you gotta change the whole quiet part out loud line or not.
00:29:39
Speaker
What are you talking about?
00:29:43
Speaker
So it's like understanding what is, first of all, like what's appropriate to, you know, that we say this is something we can outsource because it's not going to have a risk of losing value.
00:29:52
Speaker
It doesn't require critical thought.
00:29:54
Speaker
If it scales, it doesn't have a lot of impact if it gets wrong or goes wrong.
00:29:59
Speaker
But also I think with the actual beyond the AI agents and that's not really the thing I play, the space I play in, I do go back to making sure that, you know, are we using it to emphasize your own clarity and judgment and how it contributes to that, not how it gets the work done faster, but how did it contribute to your, what did you get clearer on from doing this?
00:30:18
Speaker
How did it help your judgment and your decision-making in this?
00:30:21
Speaker
If you can tell me how, then you used it right.
00:30:24
Speaker
And then the context piece, like how did it help you make sense of the data you have with the market data that's, you know, quantitative or qualitative data, which is with your own experience of being a part of the system that you're working in, the organization, the company.
00:30:39
Speaker
And so you bring your own perspective from your own role.
00:30:42
Speaker
And so, you know, how did it enrich your own experience?
00:30:46
Speaker
context as a source of knowledge and then how to strengthen your ability to get clarity of your perspective and end up making sound judgment calls.
00:30:55
Speaker
That would be kind of like my litmus test.
00:30:57
Speaker
If people can't really say that, they said, well, I did it in five minutes and it used to take me 45 minutes.
00:31:02
Speaker
So I'm like,
00:31:03
Speaker
Look how efficient I am.
00:31:04
Speaker
I got, you know, 40 minutes of my time back.
00:31:06
Speaker
It's great.
00:31:06
Speaker
We'll use that for the rework here in a month.
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:31:12
Speaker
And, you know, I see this and I definitely have a point of view, but I would love to get your thoughts.
00:31:19
Speaker
But I see this in, you know, clients that are just approaching things differently as people do.
00:31:26
Speaker
I mean, everyone's got the same goal of being as efficient and effective as they possibly can be.
00:31:31
Speaker
But what role do you think that culture plays in preserving like strong decision making within an organization?
00:31:44
Speaker
From my own personal experience in the corporate world for a long while, it plays to me the most critical role.
00:31:52
Speaker
Because there are so many times where I knew that the decision that we were just reacting to and was really just the same decision we have done every time that produced the same results, which is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing the same way, expecting different results.
00:32:07
Speaker
But there was this felt perception of, well, we can't slow down long enough to do something else.
00:32:12
Speaker
We can't stop the action.
00:32:13
Speaker
We got to keep producing and keep going.
00:32:15
Speaker
We have to have something to show so we can show fast deliverables by the end of this quarter.
00:32:20
Speaker
Doesn't matter if they're right or wrong.
00:32:22
Speaker
We can make up for it with fancy, as in L&D, fancy features at the end of it to make it look engaging and putting lipstick on a pig.
00:32:28
Speaker
But, you know, it didn't really provide meaningful, effective outcomes for the business itself.
00:32:33
Speaker
And so you really have to look at, you know, in terms of culture, what you measure matters.
00:32:38
Speaker
And so they valued output and performance more than effectiveness.
00:32:43
Speaker
And I mean performance and like KPIs that were kind of driving the work versus being shaped by the work.
00:32:49
Speaker
And rewarding, you know, again, was just cranking out numbers.
00:32:53
Speaker
And it didn't really matter if the decision was good three months from then because it was in the risk management space.
00:32:58
Speaker
But, you know, it's taboo, which is, you know, slowing down thinking.
00:33:02
Speaker
or maybe questioning the system or getting more information from different stakeholders.
00:33:08
Speaker
And then what brings status.
00:33:10
Speaker
And so more of the individual high performers always kind of talk about it as like gamification.
00:33:15
Speaker
And if you remember the movie, Office Space, where- I've never seen it, but people quote this all the time.
00:33:22
Speaker
I gotta see it.
00:33:23
Speaker
You need to see it.
00:33:24
Speaker
It's a good depressing movie about work.
00:33:28
Speaker
But this idea like this is all the TGI Fridays, they have 30 pieces of flair and you had to wear at least eight pieces for this waitress and said, no, you need to wear, you know, this guy wears 30 pieces of flair.
00:33:39
Speaker
You could even wear more.
00:33:41
Speaker
But this idea of, you know, we dress our work as like just kind of this waste stream of activity versus achievement, but we put a lot of flair onto it.
00:33:49
Speaker
It looks fancy, it looks nice.
00:33:50
Speaker
Like you throw a Simon Sinek quote into a workshop and people are like, oh, that feels really nice.
00:33:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:56
Speaker
I don't know how I'm going to do that or translate into my work, but man, that felt good.
00:34:01
Speaker
So it's like, we don't have really good outcomes to deliver them, but we sure make it feel good and make it a pleasant experience.
00:34:08
Speaker
And so that kind of stuff was more like rewarded than stepping back and saying, okay, but how did it translate into actual behavior change or organizational effectiveness?
00:34:18
Speaker
literally the idea in our group was well that's impossible to measure and really it was impossible we just didn't start there we started with how to make it pleasing we didn't start with how to make it effective it wasn't time for that that's the idea i'm rambling i wonder if there's like a car in fact there probably definitely isn't somebody much smarter than me has already said it but the correlation between people who take a step away from like
00:34:43
Speaker
corporate America and go into their own business, I think is hugely down to performative nonsense being prioritized over results.
00:34:58
Speaker
And you mentioned it a couple of times and I completely agree.
00:35:02
Speaker
Who is setting these arbitrary timelines that like we're going to get done by next quarter?
00:35:08
Speaker
Why?
00:35:09
Speaker
What's going to happen?
00:35:11
Speaker
Like, what is the world kind of come to an end?
00:35:15
Speaker
Like what, you know, like we, depending, you know, pick your company of choice, but like, I've never been, you
00:35:23
Speaker
you know, in a position where I've had someone's like life in my hands.
00:35:26
Speaker
So I'm pretty sure it could have been pushed out.
00:35:29
Speaker
But the worst thing about it is, I'm not going to start ranting, Erin, don't worry, I'm just going to say this one
AI's Role in Redefining Work and Human Intelligence
00:35:36
Speaker
thing.
00:35:36
Speaker
No, you should rant, let's do it.
00:35:40
Speaker
The worst thing about it is that it's rush, rush, rush, you got to get this done, we need it right now.
00:35:47
Speaker
And then maybe a month later, oh, we deprioritize that.
00:35:51
Speaker
What?
00:35:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:53
Speaker
And you don't pick it up again for another like eight months.
00:35:59
Speaker
I got to get off this hamster wheel.
00:36:00
Speaker
It makes no sense.
00:36:01
Speaker
Like I'm all about making things better.
00:36:04
Speaker
I'm all about, you know, creating great experiences for people.
00:36:09
Speaker
I'm all about creating efficiencies and,
00:36:12
Speaker
driving businesses to achieve their goals.
00:36:17
Speaker
I love partnering with business leaders to understand what their vision is strategically and to help them execute against that.
00:36:26
Speaker
What I don't love is spending a week out of the quarter writing OKRs that no one cares about and that don't mean anything.
00:36:36
Speaker
Right.
00:36:37
Speaker
And it's just, it's sad.
00:36:39
Speaker
It's sad.
00:36:40
Speaker
Okay, rant over.
00:36:41
Speaker
But I, I, I agree.
00:36:43
Speaker
Like, I love that line.
00:36:45
Speaker
In fact, I just jotted it down.
00:36:48
Speaker
what you can measure matters.
00:36:50
Speaker
It does.
00:36:51
Speaker
It does.
00:36:52
Speaker
If you can, if you can, I hate this phrase because I hear it way too much, but if you can like move the needle on something, like you've made an impact.
00:37:00
Speaker
If you can push something forward in a better direction, you've made an impact on that.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:08
Speaker
And I think, too, that the gift of AI should be, with its ability to process information faster for us and execute some tasks faster for us, we should now have the time to make right decisions versus reactive decisions.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:37:24
Speaker
And I think that's if we use AI just to do the same thing faster, because there's this false sense of urgency and speed even greater now, like we can just basically scale the wrong thing instead of realizing that gives us back the gift of time and what it looks like to be human at work again, gets to be redefined.
00:37:44
Speaker
And it's more about our perspective and our judgment of the living part, the HIV, human intelligence piece of it, that we get to reclaim about what is it that I can bring that
00:37:53
Speaker
that AI can't do.
00:37:55
Speaker
And, you know, that sense of what before that insignificance creeps in, it's reclaiming that sense of this is what I bring to the table versus, you know, what anything else can do.
00:38:06
Speaker
And we've definitely turned a corner when you hear people talking about it now, you know, it's less so about, okay, the goal is that we eliminate all the jobs and that we do things, everything AI, like,
00:38:20
Speaker
don't need people anymore people like i don't people are too slow it is more the the ability to think critically has become more valuable um in in the in this like ai augmented world that we live in i just i wonder how long it's going to take to find the right balance
00:38:46
Speaker
And because I don't think we're close right now.
00:38:52
Speaker
We got a ways to go.
00:38:53
Speaker
And I, I wonder what it will take.
00:38:59
Speaker
to keep that balance steady and in the right way.
00:39:04
Speaker
I don't know, I'm curious about your perspective.
00:39:08
Speaker
People say it's valuable, but you still see companies doing the same interesting things with timelines and how they prioritize the measure of success of even AI adoption itself, measuring how long somebody spent
00:39:28
Speaker
on ChatGPT, I mean, what does that tell you?
00:39:33
Speaker
I don't know.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
It becomes another busy metric where you have to clock, like you're clocking in and out of AI now.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:45
Speaker
That's, that's when we usually kind of tack on AI to organizational systems and structures and procedures without re-imagining what they could look like now with these extra tools that, and that, you know, whether it be adding the governance piece too with it, that, you know, what's AI's domain, our domain, how do we use it?
00:40:01
Speaker
And then,
00:40:01
Speaker
to your point of like tacking it on to what's already there.
00:40:05
Speaker
It just becomes, you know, the phrase I love, like progressive accumulation.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's just like, all we feel like we need to do is to get better, just keep adding on more and more and more.
00:40:14
Speaker
And AI just kind of adds to that, or at least our use of AI adds to that now.
00:40:18
Speaker
But I see it coming in a way
00:40:21
Speaker
emerging a lot, I guess, in certain circles where they're thinking hard about how do we reimagine work and actually think less about procedure and more about dynamic processes that ebb and flow and kind of this role-to-role matching where you're reorganizing workflows and partnerships among people and AI systems to accommodate the unique project or plan that you're trying to execute at that time.
00:40:46
Speaker
And so I think that that's starting to happen more commonly, but still early.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:40:54
Speaker
I agree.
00:40:54
Speaker
It's just, it's funny because I get, I get to hop in and out of very, you know, all different companies and different, uh, cultures, different ways of embracing it.
00:41:05
Speaker
And it, it really does vary from, you know, some companies that are just not interested in it at all, really they're, you know, they're, they're,
00:41:15
Speaker
you know, maybe a more longer standing company that does something service oriented and they're just, you know, they're happy with the way they do things.
00:41:24
Speaker
And, you know, they're probably not going to be, you know, breaking a billion dollars or, you know, do, you know, doing anything that, that changes the world, but they're doing, they're doing work and they're fine.
00:41:38
Speaker
And then the other end of the scale is like, everything has to run through a tool that's AI adjacent.
00:41:45
Speaker
to the point that it's like, wait, this process seems to take longer now that we've implemented this tool over it.
00:41:52
Speaker
Like, is this what we were going for?
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:57
Speaker
I'm confused.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's like there's a difference between AI adoption and AI maturity or maturation.
00:42:06
Speaker
That's always a weird word to say out loud to me.
00:42:08
Speaker
But, you know, like we celebrate how much we have adopted AI into our work.
00:42:13
Speaker
But we don't talk about how that's matured our work or how we've matured our use of AI in our work.
00:42:17
Speaker
We want to increase the adoption rates across the scope of it all.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
And I personally don't think you should measure AI adoption utilization at all.
00:42:29
Speaker
Measure the outputs.
00:42:31
Speaker
You have a function.
00:42:35
Speaker
that is responsible for X workload, like what efficiencies have they been able to build into their processes using AI, of course, but don't put the prize on just implementing a tool, put the prize on the results.
00:42:54
Speaker
That's what makes sense to me.
00:42:57
Speaker
Okay, Erin, are you still there, Erin?
Reflections on AI Maturation and Human Connection
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah, but I've been reflecting and I think, you know, I swing back and forth between this sort of, you know, the worry about what the future could be and a lot of hope for what the future can be.
00:43:14
Speaker
And I'm particularly struck, Mike, by the part of the conversation earlier where we were discussing
00:43:20
Speaker
this transition to a less human feeling and less connected feeling world at work has been happening for a long time.
00:43:29
Speaker
And I'll digress into a quick just example that rushed into my mind as you all were talking about that.
00:43:36
Speaker
I was working for a leader once that was very results and pace oriented and introduced this concept of an SBAR communication framework.
00:43:48
Speaker
Mike, are you familiar with it?
00:43:50
Speaker
No.
00:43:51
Speaker
Well, wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:43:52
Speaker
You about the chart or the graph?
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah, there's probably some sort of a graph that goes with that.
00:43:57
Speaker
I wasn't paying attention when it was introduced.
00:44:01
Speaker
Or then I'll just say, no, I'm not, Erin.
00:44:03
Speaker
Go on.
00:44:06
Speaker
So what it is, I just Googled it, situation background assessment recommendation.
00:44:11
Speaker
And it was introduced under this pretense of, you know, I don't have time for sitting down and problem solving with any of you people.
00:44:18
Speaker
And so what you need to do is sit down with this worksheet and
00:44:22
Speaker
which is this communication framework and fill it out.
00:44:24
Speaker
And only after you filled it out and worked through these reflection questions, can you come to me and have a conversation about it?
00:44:30
Speaker
And I, you know, I, I remember sitting in that quote unquote workshop and going, I'm not doing this.
00:44:39
Speaker
If you don't want me to come to you, I just want to come to you.
00:44:42
Speaker
But the you know, I think about just the application of tools like yours and,
00:44:49
Speaker
not only being able to support people through their thinking structures, but creating efficiencies that then in turn create more time for people to hopefully behave in a more human and connected way at work.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:05
Speaker
Well, first, I want to know that worksheet because I want to give it to my four kids and say, before you come to me and tell them your siblings, fill this out.
00:45:12
Speaker
And that will lose their interest right there because they don't have a work ethic.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
Love you guys.
00:45:18
Speaker
So, but yeah, you're talking about like this sense of insignificance, angst, where what's the meaning to my work?
00:45:25
Speaker
What's the relevance?
00:45:27
Speaker
And essentially, if AI can do this, whatever this is, what's my role?
00:45:33
Speaker
And we assume that if AI can do this, we don't have a role because our role has been predominantly, you know, looked at KPIs and productivity that thankfully, you know, a lot can be changed and manipulated by that for the good.
00:45:46
Speaker
But, you know,
00:45:50
Speaker
and I'm sure there may be, I don't know.
00:45:52
Speaker
I like to think not, but I hope so at the same time.
00:45:56
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:45:57
Speaker
You don't think so?
00:45:59
Speaker
What it says, since the day I can do this, what's my role?
00:46:01
Speaker
And that is really, I think, with this, really the design thinking that is embedded in this tool helps you recover that what's my role for this unique time
00:46:11
Speaker
this unique place and this unique set of circumstances.
00:46:16
Speaker
And for us to find that unique role for time, place and circumstance, we have to renew, which regenerative design thinking is the RDT, which is to renew, bring back to life our ways of thinking and working
00:46:29
Speaker
for each new moment that we find ourselves in.
00:46:32
Speaker
And so I think that's the question that we should have been asking a lot longer before AI emerges.
00:46:37
Speaker
What's my role in this since things have changed?
00:46:39
Speaker
Because things change where we work with people, people are living systems, we're all in things.
00:46:44
Speaker
So I think it's finally maybe hopefully forcing us to ask these questions that we should have been asking for a while.
00:46:50
Speaker
But I think this is what the tool helps us do now more than ever with that incentive against angst, helps us reclaim our own role
00:46:57
Speaker
And whatever process that we're in, whatever moment we're in with our stakeholders, whatever value we're trying to create, I hope you feel empowered again with that.
00:47:07
Speaker
What a beautiful way to wrap up the conversation.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:12
Speaker
I think there's so much hope and excitement around that perspective, Mike.
00:47:17
Speaker
So thank you so much for sharing it with us today.
00:47:20
Speaker
We're definitely looking forward to continuing to follow the evolution of your company, of your tool and
00:47:29
Speaker
Just can't wait to see how you and your team take off here.
00:47:34
Speaker
And so a couple of just quick questions for you before we call it a night.
00:47:40
Speaker
Where can listeners follow your work?
00:47:43
Speaker
Yes, so you can go to regiondesignlabs.com as a website.
00:47:47
Speaker
You can just do a start here form, and we can get connected directly through that.
00:47:52
Speaker
And from there, we can do, if you're interested in the tool itself, just excited about the 60-day pilot lab where you actually get to take a cross-functional set of your team between 8 and 15 leaders across your organization, and you get to apply this tool to develop work intelligence, which is really about paying attention
00:48:11
Speaker
attention to your attention and thinking about your thinking as it ties to actual decision-making quality improvements and stakeholder mindset to deepen the value for everyone.
00:48:21
Speaker
And then really have the kind of value creation paradigms out there of beyond just that one-off transactional quick win we go for, like how do we protect value and so on and so forth.
00:48:31
Speaker
So it allows you two months of just experimenting with this tool to help learn more about yourself and your company and some strategic next moves.
00:48:39
Speaker
But also just LinkedIn and just go look me up at Michael Reading and or in slash Michael P. Reading is a good way to follow the material.
00:48:49
Speaker
It's so like Reading.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah, you know what my idea is, because we are English, I think it probably was Reading, and then somewhere along the way, we got to America, and we're like, that looks like reading.
00:49:01
Speaker
Probably.
00:49:05
Speaker
We'll also share some information on the Strativist page about that, too.
00:49:10
Speaker
It's a great opportunity.
00:49:11
Speaker
You know, we are very comfortable in LLMs, and we get...
00:49:18
Speaker
um the same kind of quick responses that you need for you know something that's like okay what is the answer to this or um how many zeros are in a million just kidding um but like um but this but mike's tool will help you
00:49:37
Speaker
Think through your own thoughts and help you discern what you're really trying to get to in a way that will make you feel really good and really connected to the end result.
00:49:50
Speaker
So we'll definitely share information on that.
00:49:53
Speaker
um and oh should plug you too if you do go to the website now i don't know if you've seen this yet but i updated there is a quick uh demo that i did a screen recording of and added on the home page so people can kind of send in real time how it welcomes you invites you to different ways of thinking about your work through decisions relationships conflict confusion and then i just kind of put in a scenario case study to let it
00:50:17
Speaker
give an initial reply and how it would launch into deeper conversation.
00:50:21
Speaker
So, you don't have to imagine it.
00:50:23
Speaker
You actually go to the website and look at it in action.
00:50:25
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:50:27
Speaker
Very cool.
00:50:28
Speaker
And as I understand, Mike, you have a promotional offer that you're sharing with Strativist listeners.
00:50:33
Speaker
How can listeners access that?
00:50:36
Speaker
Yeah, well, first, I give it to you.
00:50:39
Speaker
Once they reach out, I mean, if you mentioned Strativus, you automatically get from an individual account user, which we tend to do more companies of 10 plus, but you've got 30% off.
00:50:52
Speaker
So for an annual or for a monthly membership, it's $129.
00:50:56
Speaker
But if you are part of Strativus community, you get referrals from Strativus.
00:51:01
Speaker
Then we go through from $129 to $99 a month.
00:51:06
Speaker
And it's just by mentioning you guys' name.
00:51:11
Speaker
Yes, that is all it takes.
00:51:13
Speaker
And complimenting your LinkedIn content, of course, Amy.
00:51:19
Speaker
Erin's like, I write both of that.
00:51:22
Speaker
She just doesn't think it.
00:51:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:25
Speaker
I know.
00:51:26
Speaker
You're an AI sloth.
00:51:27
Speaker
It's the best sloth in the world.
00:51:29
Speaker
I'm joking.
00:51:30
Speaker
Oh, so good to talk to you again, Mike.
00:51:34
Speaker
Thanks for coming on.
00:51:36
Speaker
Thank you, guys.
00:51:37
Speaker
Have a great night.