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How Burnout Impacts Our Brains with Dr. Chad Prevost
22 Plays1 year ago
The majority of Americans say they sometimes or always feel burned out at work. What exactly is causing "workplace burnout" in America, how does it impact our brains, and what can we do about it?
Chad Prevost is a certified Enneagram coach, facilitator, author, podcast host, and keynote speaker. Connect with Chad at www.bigselfschool.com and on his podcast, "The Humanist."
In this episode:
- What is burnout? Medical definitions
- Awareness in our bodies and emotions — ontological coaching
- The O-A-R model (observer, action, result)
- Healthy perspectives of our jobs
- Bringing emotional intelligence into the workplace
- Practicing mindfulness
- Strategies for overcoming workplace stress
- The impact of your Enneagram type
Connect with us at SuenoLabs.com. We're currently looking for contributors and podcast guests!
Disclaimer: This show is for informational purposes only. Sueño Labs does not provide medical advice.
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Transcript
Introduction to Workplace Burnout
00:00:00
Speaker
The overwhelming majority of Americans say that they sometimes or always feel burned out at work. It's the daily grind, the hustle and bustle, corporate American culture. Beyond just the physical toll of getting to work early and staying late, it's the mental and emotional cost. What's causing workplace burnout in America? How is it impacting our brains? And what can we do about it?
00:00:32
Speaker
Tonight, I talk with author and speaker Dr. Chad Prevost, founder of the coaching company Big Self School and certified Enneagram coach, about his perspective on workplace burnout and what we can do to overcome it.
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm Jimmy Leonard. This is Swenior Labs.
00:00:58
Speaker
Chad Prevost, welcome to Swania Labs. How are you today? Great, Jimmy. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, always a pleasure. Well, let's go ahead and jump in. We're talking about burnout, but before we do, you are the founder of Big Self School.
Founding Big Self School
00:01:16
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, it's ah kind of a dream come true in that my wife and I, we got married in 1999 to date us a bit, but we had this dream pre-marriage of like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if you're a counselor, I'm a teacher, and we form
00:01:33
Speaker
this school or retreat center together and we we're like yeah would not be neat and then we went off on a separate ah career paths for about two decades and then that you know i was getting burned out she'd experience burnout in different ways in different industries. But in 2020, as this pandemic was setting in, we were like, you know what, let's see what we can do here to address mental health in a way that makes it more democratized, less stigmatized, that is more fun and engaging and teaches these principles. And I was going to be more of the the writer and the researcher, the thinking of maybe doing a podcast. She's had 20 years as a counselor, a psychologist, but over that first year, I was like, I love this stuff and I want to embody it myself as I'm doing these practices. And so I did a bit of a career shift. You know, I had been a professor and now I've become a coach and a transformation coach.
00:02:36
Speaker
And I love this work. And so right now, Big Self School and right now we're a coaching company that does trainings and consultations with a variety of industries because the types of teaching and and coaching that we do applies across industries. So that's where we're at right now. But I tell you, we're I think we're headed in some really exciting directions. That's fantastic.
Impact of the Pandemic on Mental Health
00:03:00
Speaker
So I heard you mentioned that there was an inflection point during COVID. Do you think that that was mostly because of what was happening in your lives or was it more of an awareness of where some of the mental health crises, work burnout, all of those things were happening that the Band-Aid was ripped off in in those few years?
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, you know, well, if I have to choose between the two, I would say it began as much more of a personal part of our hero's journey, maybe, if we think of it that way. And that because we're all figuring it out in 2020, what in the world is is going on, right? And in some ways, it was the best of times and it was the worst of times to try to launch a a mental health community and school because everyone else started doing it at the same time. But of course, there was also a huge need for it. So you mentioned you work with a number of industries. um I'm curious if there are common threads that you see where maybe it doesn't matter what kind of work you do. These are struggles we all have.
Understanding Ontological Coaching
00:04:00
Speaker
Well, yeah, absolutely. A broad thing that we could talk about is burnout and it is happening culturally and industry agnostic, I guess, as we could say. But I'll tell you some of the
00:04:10
Speaker
just fundamental principles that I use in coaching that it's got a big fancy word, and I wish there was a better word for it, but it's called ontological coaching. Ontological means the study of being. These three fundamental principles of tuning into awareness in the body and associating that with like what is going on in the emotions and then connecting that to the language we use and the thoughts that we have the stories we often are using to keep some of this stuff alive those three components body emotions and language does transcend it's powerful and we i also use this model called the or model which is observe your observer and think of the actions that you're you're taking as a result of the observer you are
00:05:02
Speaker
And how does that lead to the results you're getting? And if you don't like the results that you keep getting, then how about take the circle around, observe your observer and shift, shift your perspective so that you take different actions and eventually get different results. And that in and of itself is a lot of words, but in practice, many people are like, what
Challenges of Emotional Awareness
00:05:27
Speaker
did you just do? That is like a jet, it's like a Jedi thing. Because I'm like, nope, it's not me. It's the human condition, right? And if a person's really open and really ready to do what can't often be difficult work, then yes, you do see these different results. And even though I can say it and verbalize it, it's still one of those things that like has to be practiced on a regular basis. Maybe we get better at practicing it like anything like I do. Yeah. I had a mentor coach.
00:05:58
Speaker
who I would just still be bringing, Hey, this is my breakdown. This is what's stressing me out. And you know, and I'm like, and I know I'm a coach and and I know all these things that I should be doing, but like just having someone in a safe space, listening, but reflecting your thinking back to you, doing the practice of tuning into what's going on in your body, thinking of the emotions. And then the story, sometimes you're telling yourself to keep it alive. And you're also just brought to, as Chalmers Brothers says, who I've talked to in many different ways, and he is a brilliant guy. Just this idea really resonates with me, is we're always brought to sort of the door of choice.
00:06:40
Speaker
You know, we're always brought to choice. Now we don't have to choose to take different actions if we want to stay and be like, no, I'm doubling down. But we're brought at least with this new awareness of, okay, there are options here. I'm not a victim or you know what? I am because this is too hard the other way. And I think sometimes in in workplace culture, it it seems like that like there's only the extremes, right? We love extremes as a society where it's this job sucks. But this is what it is. I have to do it. I have to keep going. I have to keep at the grind. Or the pendulum swings the other way where maybe ah a boss says one negative thing to you. And all of a sudden, it's a toxic work environment. And I've got to get out of here. but it It almost seems like there's no middle ground where
00:07:25
Speaker
part of functioning in the world has these moments of stress, but but where do we pause and where do we just look at it and see where it's coming from? So it's interesting to me that you you talk about the the practice of of observing these things and and what it sounds like is even just having some emotional intelligence or emotional awareness. and I agree that that can be so profound, but on the other hand, it it doesn't really seem like it's all that novel, right? you know just Just pausing, thinking about what's going on, observing my life.
Evolution of Emotional Intelligence
00:07:51
Speaker
So yeah why do you think that this is so difficult? Or why maybe another question is why is it so new to people?
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that is an interesting way of putting it. Uh, and the enlightenment brought us here in a lot of ways where we were like, yes, there's a lot of ways in which over the past two to 300 years, recognizing the singular distinction of, of us as creatures, as cognitive thinking, rational beings, led to some wondrous things, right? It led to all these scientific breakthroughs. You could say the combustible engine democracy, all of these things, but we have done it to the disregard of some things that really you're right. Aren't novel. They're in fact embedded in ancient wisdom. And that is we're feeling creatures too, as one, one part of our experience. And we are embodied.
00:08:51
Speaker
And so there has been a profound disconnection from our bodies and our emotions, whether we're men, it's regardless of gender, it's kind of a cultural thing. I mean, it's probably more profound in men. And I would say that so like to take one, one dimension of this, well, yeah emotional intelligence was not popularized until um roughly around the 90s. where you we could at least trace it back to that bestselling book of of Daniel Goleman's, the emotional intelligence that got increasingly popular. and to this you know And I think the pandemic we mentioned was a bit of like even more of an inflection point of like turning up the temperature on how important these
00:09:37
Speaker
dimensions are. And even 2018, talking about EQ, emotional intelligence was ah sort of like they were still calling it, oh, you want some soft you want to bring some soft skills into the workplace. It's not just a soft skill, right? And now you don't really hear that language even. And now people are even saying, well, EQ is like more important than IQ. And so there's been ah more of a cultural ah Acceptance you know and here's i'll tell you to jimmy one thing that's really interesting to me about. Some of the neuroscience has been going on for the past decade and a half and so there is increased incredible data.
Mindfulness and the Enneagram
00:10:23
Speaker
coming out telling us, like, well, if you are at this kind of, if you're in anger in this negative emotional range, then it's it's kind of considered a negative emotion as powerful as it may be. And we can trace it what's going on in our brains, what's going on chemically in the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous systems. So to me, like the I guess if there is something novel and there this in our scientific mindset of curiosity, it's well, now we can trust it because there's data. And that's just thinking more of the, some of the emotional quality to it. I think there's a tremendous amount of data about what's going on in our brains and it does relate to the body and the gut. I think that may be the next overall frontier because we've done a lot of the cognitive, you know, now for the past 30 years, has there been a ton of research about really what's going on in the body? Well, it's emerging.
00:11:25
Speaker
You know, Gabor Maté's book from, I think it was 2010, the, the, when the body says no, it was very influential and the body really remembers and the body knows what's going on. The other thing that came to mind is like, I think John Kabat-Zinn also in the nineties began popularizing mindfulness. And, you know, mindfulness, you know, I think it's it's kind of like ebbed and flowed in popularity or understanding. But when you really unpack, what is this? You're right. It's basic in a way, but it's a practice. And it's just it's to me, it's meditation. It's meditation that is like really aware in different ways of your breathing. So I'll just say that if I if we just say these things and we keep them cognitive,
00:12:19
Speaker
And it's all easier said than done. You can read 75 self-help books this year and keep it in your head. And if you don't do the practice of one of them, which is beginning to actually pause and pay attention to your reactivity and slow down, then you won't be changed. There's a difference between this head knowledge and and slowing down. and practicing these things that we say we know, but is hard to do. I think the way that we talk about some of these things matters so much. When I was growing up, probably like most people, if there was a moment that I was afraid or or nervous to try something, a lot of times the the adults in my life would say, well, that's all in your head. You know you don't need to worry about that. And and it's almost like,
00:13:10
Speaker
Well, it it is quite literally in my head. There are neurological things happening here in my brain, but it's it's not all in my head because it's in my body too. There are physiological effects when a person is feeling stressed or afraid. And what's meant by that comment is the complete opposite of what's true. It is in your head and it's everywhere else. And what's happening emotionally really does affect somebody's life. And so I think just being able to flip the script on how we talk about some of those things is so important. I kind of want to add to what you're saying if I may for a moment. And we don't have to talk about the Enneagram, but I'll just say, you know, interculture and as a guy, until I knew that I was an Enneagram 4, which is a heart type and is very, very emotional.
00:13:55
Speaker
I just kind of more or less in my ah lower level awareness assumed that this is how everyone kind of functions. They think of like, how am I seeing and am I connecting with that person? And all these kind of relational things that I didn't really understand were emotional. And I just, I thought for sure that I was way more in my head come to find out with the the self-awareness that just something like the Enneagram brings you just you begin to observe levels and layers and layers of light awareness of oh man you mean most of my life I didn't realize just how incredibly emotional I i am and was
00:14:41
Speaker
Yeah. And you're, you're talking to a three, what it, what is that one?
Defining Burnout by WHO
00:14:44
Speaker
Uh, the achievers that the right name for it. Make sure, you know, that's what the perform the productive performer, performer productive. Yeah. I mean, very much the kind of person who, who can excel in a corporate environment, but doesn't pause to really think, how am I doing right now? You know, that that's been, um, yeah. A big part of my journey is trying to have more of that, not, not be so compartmentalized of like, okay, work is work and feeling is feeling, and those are separate. which that that makes me want to circle back to the idea of burnout. One of the questions I have is what could we think of as almost a working definition of burnout? And I think there's probably so many people in America who would agree with the statement, I sometimes feel burned out. But yeah if it's possible to to normalize that and I know it's hard so many experiences are different every individuals in a different spot but what are the symptoms or maybe what are the circumstances where you could actually say yeah you are burned out and what you're doing right it's being it's a loose term that isn't always very well defined so so the who the World Health Organization it was in May of 2019
00:15:52
Speaker
that they came out with finally listing burnout as a classified international classification of diseases. ah wow yeah What was a little unsatisfying to a lot of people was that they still ah kept the definition boundary within the context of work. The WHO would define it you know if we go there as a syndrome that is conceptualized from chronic workplace stress, So that's the the idea of like chronic, you're just under it all the time that basically has just not been successfully managed. And I think that they, you know, they characterize it as like having feelings of depletion, uh, and, and just exhaustion. And maybe there's a bit of a mental distance.
00:16:36
Speaker
from one's job. um There's this general feeling of kind of negativity or cynicism. And as a result, the bottom line is you're less of a productive performer under those feelings. So, i you know, that's the whose definition. You know, I have reflected on defining it over the years. be Yeah, both not only because of the the paradoxical issue of it being so individual and so incredibly collective, uh, but also the different ways, regardless of industry, just the different ways that people might experience it. Like my wife, who was the CEO of a tech company and just grinding in a startup culture. That's that those 2010s of startup culture that I mean, in some ways maybe hasn't gone away, but there has a whole new level of awareness now where it was like hustle culture to the disregard of your body and emotions and just go work your 80 to 120 hours. Anyway, when her company tanked after she gave so much, she burned out.
00:17:48
Speaker
I mean, it was this dramatic thing of real disconnection and disillusionment. By contrast, you know, I would say that I've experienced different degrees of burnout at times by like lacking purpose, by not feeling, like by feeling a sense of like, what's the point? of continuing to do X, Y, or Z. And it was maybe more of this protracted kind of thing. You know, of course we can also live in a victim mindset where like, oh, we've got now new language to use to say,
00:18:26
Speaker
toxic work environment, you know, bad boss. I am a victim. And one of the things we do in coaching is like, you know, first of all, you're you're still going to have problems, right? Rationally, you would say, oh, yeah, I know a coach can't solve someone um being a bad boss or me having difficulty. comut But a lot of times we were like in pain, we're in a struggle and we want help to get out of it. And sometimes you don't see immediate results. But one of the first things we say is you've got to be willing to take this radical responsibility for your life and for what's going on. And you start with the self. It's not selfish to start with the self. And also self care. So speaking of self self self self care is not bubble baths and, you know, and flowers and candles. Self care is actually a kind of a responsibility to the body and the mind and all of that. That can be very non romantic and
00:19:29
Speaker
very hard. It's interesting to you that I agree that it's not it's not always about work. But work is so, so often the main stressor in someone's life. You know, I i think we can have burnout in ah a caretaker situation, we can have burnout in a relationship, but it's often work. I don't know if this completely aligns with the WHO definition, but I was reading a while back a study in ah world psychiatry, I believe it was, where they were talking about burnout in the context of being an occupationally specific dysphoria. So basically, this idea that Your brain is completely a mess, borderline dysfunctional, but it's occupationally specific. It makes me wonder what what's going on there? Why is it that the circumstances of what we're doing or is it the people that we're around or is it maybe that we have to act a certain way? And maybe that's yeah part of what stresses us at work.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah. So first of all, this idea of dysphoria. And so for the audience is wondering, what's dysphoria? Right. It's uh, sounds bad, doesn't it? Sounds like a bad thing.
Ownership of Mental Health
00:20:34
Speaker
yeah I think it's easy to remember if we think of it as the opposite of euphoria. Right. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Like if we think of, Oh man, I'm feeling so euphoric. Wow. This is great. Um, you know, like maybe some earned dopamine that's making us feel euphoric, but dysphoric. So the reason I guess I don't like it a little bit as, as a definition of burnout a little bit is because it's associated with mental illness. And if you're burning now, is everyone having mental illness? I don't think that's fair.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, but if we also, I guess, think about like the the who definition, the third part of their definition was when like their mental health isn't properly managed. That's kind of interesting language there. So they're making an assumption that you do have to manage your mental health And there's a good way to do it and not now i went early on in big self school as I was kind of becoming more familiar with some of the literature and I was getting involved in coaching. We were talking a lot about this idea of being in essence and being in your true self. What's the true self really digging into
00:21:46
Speaker
those that definition, wherever it emerged, whether it was from Buddhism or Thomas Merton using it, or just this idea of essence and many people just use it. Now see, well, how are we defining this idea of the true self? And for a while I was like, well, in our coaching, we don't want to just help you equip you with some skills to hop back in and burn right back out into the world. What we want. Yeah, we were like, we were like, Hey, we want you to be ready to find this work life balance and really, you know, do some of these, I mean, obviously I guess disruptive things to, but then later on as my thinking and experience evolved, I was like, well, you know, a lot of people don't have the say privilege or the options to just say,
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to work less and have this. And how do we even define work-life balance? And that's getting harder and harder with all the bad ways our boundaries are broken through with all the different forms of communication. But yes, there actually is with the awareness and the data that we're getting, I think there does seem to be a little bit of a shift, a little bit of an acceptance that this is culturally difficult and it's not changing. And people aren't just being weak and whiny and complaining. This is transcending culture. This is across the board. It is because of all these different forms of the blessings of these communications, but also the burden of them. So I actually once upon a time to say that I'm working outside of the office.
00:23:25
Speaker
meant something different than it does now where you might be called into 11 meetings a week or so dysphoria. I mean, in a way I get it, this idea of associating burnout with mental illness, because maybe one's not taking enough personal responsibility for one's mental health. And, but I'm more, I think more in the spirit of like, let's do preventive care. rather than just always look being reactive and putting band-aids and dealing with symptoms when we're experienced. I mean, sometimes, yeah, we got to be moved. We're not going to always be motivated to start practices if we're not actually feeling bad in some way. But over time, as we begin to go, okay, this is kind of stressful. This is difficult. How can I be better equipped and more responsible to myself in how I'm going to engage in the workplace environment? start with the basics, right? Start with square one, you know, how, how can I have more of that self responsibility? There is sometimes and an attitude that I run into, you know, when I talk to different people of, well, i I don't have the kind of job where I can do that, right? You know, and yeah I don't have the kind of job where I can take unlimited time off if I need to, or I can step out of a meeting if I need to. Um, and I'm wondering, what do we say to somebody who thinks,
00:24:45
Speaker
I can't take this kind of responsibility in my work. Everyone underneath the leader can recognize that there is difficulty in this workplace environment that might not need to happen, but that we're kind of mirroring the leadership. So there is, there's, I mean, a lot of different people tackle this, this question, Jimmy, in different ways, right? They'll write a book on like team centered coaching within the workplace. Or they'll be like, yes, it actually does start from the top leaders. Are you listening? But I, you know, I will, if I'm trying to be really simple here, I would say you start with the self. If you had more self-awareness, could you recognize that as difficult as it may be, there is a possibility for you to have some courageous authenticity and exert a little bit more leadership on behalf of yourself. Are you just being compliant?
00:25:39
Speaker
and safe over here in a reactive space, going with the flow that you think is all like really collegial, but really it's reactive and protective. There are levels of awareness that we can have that could change the possibilities and the outcomes. I mean, yes, at a certain point in a lot of contexts, because we're talking in broad generalities, There are certain managers and things that it's just not gonna change and it is their way or the highway and you have to come to the door of choice and just say. I accept it or i do not accept it and if you accept it are you gonna be in resignation and resentment and live there or are you going to accept it and try to live in a little bit of a higher level emotional and mental space.
00:26:33
Speaker
Right. yeah maybe Maybe it's even part of that acceptance is just recognizing this is how this person communicates. yeah and i I can't change how they communicate, but if I want to you stay on their good side, so to speak, this is how I need to communicate back to them and have some recognition of what triggers the situations that might make you stressed otherwise. I'm curious about how to prepare for situations that are less in your control, whether that's before work or after work. I know I find that my workday can can be really different if I wake up early and I'm intentional with my time at home and I'm
00:27:14
Speaker
really mentally and emotionally preparing for the day versus you wake up with barely enough time to shower, grabbing coffee out the door, and you're kind of already in a frantic state of stress. I tell you, i have we talk about that like you've got building blocks to get to the higher levels that we want to get to, or we do so much work out of our neocortex that we probably didn't evolve doing, So how do we enhance the possibilities of that
Practices for Emotional Resilience
00:27:45
Speaker
neocortex? How do we feel better in our emotions? Well, we have to do the practices of the building blocks, which sounds so basic and not novel, right? But they are fundamentals for a reason.
00:27:58
Speaker
getting that eight hours of sleep and understanding the power and the many, many benefits of good sleep and getting having that right nutrition and treating our bodies well by saying you know saying to our bodies, you know what, I value you and I'm going to exercise in some form or fashion. Because in the end, it all does lead to more enhanced, better feelings, better moods and emotions, and better cognitive dispositions and maximizing that ability. So I talk to a lot of people, I'm fascinated by some people's routines. And I think, yes, with the awareness of like, are you a body type head type or hard type by, you know, in the Instagram, maybe some of that informs how you like to do a practice a lot of, for instance, a lot of head types, I know,
00:28:47
Speaker
just stinking love meditation. Now everybody can, but I'm just saying in particular head types who are often in anxiety and in this kind of low level emotion of fear, when they meditate, it has wondrous results for them right away and they swear by it and live by it. And, and so just structuring Well, how are you going to sleep and all those things about light and being on a screen and really shutting down. And then so that, that when do you wake up on this regular basis and what practices do you choose to do because they're functional and give like a lot of hard types like gratitude practices.
00:29:29
Speaker
because it it emotionally does when you dig in and you do it right way and you practice it, it does lift up those moods and and makes you feel better. But there's, you can't do all the practices. I think for, and some people are like, in incredibly disciplined and consistent with practices. And some people just say, aren't, or they, they like flow. They like to try different things or they stray from them for a while and then they come back and they practice them again. And and that's probably been more me over the years, but you know, my brother is like meditated for, I think thousands of days at times without interruption. And I, I know some, a lot of people I talk to, they wake up at four.
00:30:13
Speaker
and they just live by and they go to bed at like 8 15 to do that and I don't always want to do that right I do think that these basic fundamental things that sound boring can get us to these higher levels and it is a process and You know, it's like one ah yeah in coaching what, you know, we, we start with self observation, self self. Once we know what someone's type in a lot of cases, you can observe your passion, that emotional lower level disposition. And then when you start observing it and becoming more aware of it, then
00:30:52
Speaker
You can begin to come to that door of choice and be like, okay, I'm, I'm living out of this rigid posture, egoish thing that I don't have to do. I have more choice and flexibility in how I respond to um my environment. and I think that maybe to kind of conclude in some of these ideas is just like what we want. I think Jimmy is like, we
Resources at Big Self School
00:31:15
Speaker
want more freedom. We don't want to be mechanistic. We don't want to be chained to the forces of capitalism that are way more powerful than us.
00:31:25
Speaker
we want a modicum of freedom. And when we do the work, oddly enough, we are much, much freer and how we, we can respond. We're not victims. We have a lot more choice. So I'm curious if, if someone's listening to this and they're thinking, okay, yeah that, that sounds great, but how do I observe myself? yeah Yeah. How, how, how do I start? It's such a good question. And it is like the most frequently asked question when given that homework is like, okay, I'm supposed to be observing, right? What am I? And that's why I said what once we do know what to be looking for in a way, then it does help. If I am an Enneagram, let's pick one. Uh, if I'm an Enneagram one and I am often in low level anger that I'm ah Because i've got a very intense inner critic and i'm trying to do everything right all the time and and maybe it's bleeding out and it's a blind spot i don't realize that i'm showing anger to others because i'm trying to be good and keep it in once you begin to go i am an enneagram one and my passion is anger.
00:32:36
Speaker
Then you can begin to like okay it first of all self-observation it's you're not taking action on it that comes with self-inquiry right and it's like you start digging in and you're like okay i'm i'm tired of it i will make some changes but at first in self-observation you're just trying to develop awareness so it's non judgmental awareness you have to be really gentle. with that ego in the early stages because the ego does resist the ego on this very once be like i got you this far it's functional. It's not all bad and it it resists and a lot of people come right up to the door of like i do want to change and then it gets hard cuz in the egos resisting and they just kinda go most people i would say.
00:33:23
Speaker
go back to the compliance of that reactive, lesser aware self. Cause it's safe there. So it's, it's almost like doing an emotional equivalent of ah a food log. I know a lot of diet plans have something like that where it's, um, It's not intended to be judgmental, but it's just the, Hey, I'm going to record that I had sugar cereal for breakfast today and nothing else. Maybe later I'll do something about that. help Maybe later I'll question that. It's very objective, just data driven non-judgment. Yeah.
00:33:56
Speaker
So is this what you get into in your book? It's called shock point, the Enneagram in burnout and stress. Is that what that explores of how your Enneagram type affects how to approach some of these questions? It does. I tried to approach it with a little bit of a different angle, so it wasn't just another ordinary description of types. There's a section on burnout, there's a section on the idea of what stress is doing in your body, especially chronic stress. For the most part, it is a a thorough description from psychological means to emotional to what's going on in the body of each and every type as well as the subtypes.
00:34:33
Speaker
And that I think is powerful learning when you can get down to the nitty gritty of knowing not only your type, but your subtype. Then when you think of the wing work, the growth work and the arrow work, it's more specific and targeted and more effective. And it is specific to like when you're feeling stress, this is how you are behaving. Well, Chad, just as we're we're getting close to time here, where can somebody go to learn more about some of what you talked about today? Yeah, thanks. I mean, just in a nutshell, BigSelfSchool dot.com. I'm you know Chad at BigSelfSchool dot.com. If you want to reach out and send me a message or an email.
00:35:13
Speaker
Uh, on LinkedIn, we're on Instagram. We're, we're, ah we're available. We're available taking clients. We don't do packages cause we're more into what does the client need and not like making someone have to sign some big agreement. Uh, as a lot of coaches do, it's, it's a common practice in the coaching profession. And I think we're trying to do something a little different there. Well, Chad, free of us. Thank you. Thank you. It's been an honor and a delight.
00:35:43
Speaker
Swinyolabs is a show about sleep, memory, and dreams. For more content, visit our blog at swinyolabs.com and connect with us to learn more about how you can share your story related to brain health and the daily habits that help us to rest and live better.
00:36:02
Speaker
Thanks for joining. We'll be back soon.