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Investing in Your Team: Strategies for Staff Recruitment, Training, and Retention
139 Plays1 year ago
The sports industry is exhilarating, but its unique challenges with staffing can take away from a facility’s top priorities. In this blog, we explore the invaluable wisdom shared by a veteran in the industry. Discover the strategies to hire, build, and keep a motivated team that excels in sports facility management.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Mission
00:00:00
Speaker
On this episode of the Facility Playbook, I sat down with Chuck Stolery of US Indoor Sports Association. He has some amazing strategies and tips around staff retention, recruitment, and training. And what I loved about this episode is we really did a deep dive all the way through what it means to hire, recruit, train, incentivize, grow, coach, mentor, everything you need to do to build an amazing team and staff at your facility, we covered in this episode. I hope you enjoy.
00:00:32
Speaker
Do you own or manage a facility while you are in the right place? Welcome to The Facility Playbook. I'm Luke Wade, founder and CEO of Facility Ally, and this podcast is about helping facility managers and owners learn from pioneers and veterans in the industry who have already built and managed successful sports facilities, entertainment venues, and clubs. Did you know that most of the facilities I just mentioned use between four and six different software to manage their memberships, reservations, lessons, leagues, camps, clinics, and more?
Overview of Facility Ally
00:00:59
Speaker
Revolutionize your facility with Facility Allies All-in-One System. Learn more at facilityallie.com. And today, we're back with an amazing guest we had on before, Chuck Stolery. How are you, Chuck? It's the again, membership director of
Chuck Stolery's Role and Industry Insights
00:01:13
Speaker
the U.S. Indoor Sports Association. How are you?
00:01:16
Speaker
Good, man. Thanks for having me back. It's cool. I love Avenue. We had a great conversation last time, so I definitely want to dive in again about this amazing topic we're here to discuss today, which is staff recruiting, training, and retention. So maybe for the guests who haven't listened to one of our past episodes with you on it, give us a little bit of your background on how you got into the industry.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah. So I am the membership director at US Indoor. What US Indoor does is represent the facility owners, managers, and staff in the community sportsplex space, right? So if you're almost all of the people that I talk to that get into this business are sports people and really not business people. There are very few people. They become business people through a lot of trial and error and
00:01:59
Speaker
We're here to help them bridge that gap faster and get successful faster and achieve their dreams. So that's why we're here. I have been doing facilities now for 15 years, going on 15 years. And I've seen big ones, small ones, rich ones, poor ones, new ones, old ones. And there are things that are common through all of them. And so I've done some extensive work to kind of boil down
00:02:24
Speaker
the really important parts of running a facility and being a manager, being an owner, and that's what I help people do now is really kind of identify that.
00:02:33
Speaker
Well, you definitely got the experience. Our first episode with you, the last episode we did together was actually one of the most listened to episodes. So I can't wait to see what people think about this with you. So I want to get into, let's start with kind of narrowing down the life cycle of an employee. And I'll start a little bit with, you know, I started Casey Crew 11 years ago, and I feel like I struggled with hiring and managing employees for the first eight to nine years of that.
00:02:57
Speaker
I've really just figured out over the last couple of years and thank God we did, you know, because it's definitely made my life a lot better. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on, you know, the life cycle of an employee at a facility.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question and it really starts and ends with the management team, right? It's how well are you hiring? How well are you interviewing? How well are you engaging that staff once you have them on your team? How much are you investing in them to keep them with you, right?
00:03:28
Speaker
This business, because we work nights and weekends right, we have that working against us. It's pretty rare that you have somebody stay at a facility eight, nine, 10, 12 years. It's just not really a thing that happens a whole lot. So when you get one that's really promising, you got to do everything you can to keep them with you, maximize your return on them, maximize your investment in them. And look, the still the likelihood is that they move on.
00:03:57
Speaker
That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, right? That does not mean you shouldn't invest in
Employee Management and Retention Strategies
00:04:01
Speaker
them. And there's something to say that to have a good reputation about being a place that somebody is from, right? You hear about it with Chick-fil-A when you get somebody that's really good at customer service. Where'd you learn all that? I worked at Chick-fil-A for a couple of years, right? They've got really high turnover too, because it's fast food and it sucks.
00:04:21
Speaker
but there are good things that come from a short time at Chick-fil-A, right? They're a really good time. So you can be that too, right? If you're in the community and there are people who are calling you for references and you can give them shining references and they call you back two years later, man, why did you let that person go, I wish that I didn't, right? But it's really a great thing to do. So from a life cycle standpoint,
00:04:47
Speaker
The quality of an employee's experience with you starts and ends with you. So if you as the manager are not investing in yourself, you're not getting coaching, you're not getting development, you're not bettering your skills, including interviewing better and hiring better. It's going to make you're going to really struggle for a long time. And it seems like you did that for a while.
00:05:10
Speaker
and just to backtrack for a second, are you saying that, you know, you said that the fast food, you know, it sucks to work at Chick-fil-A, are you comparing that to a facility? No, not at all. It's just, there are...
00:05:24
Speaker
Lots of people start in fast food, right? Lots of people's first job is in fast food. A lot of them. McDonald's is known for it, right? There's something to be said about having a really good quality experience for somebody who's 16, 17 is their first job. And they have a manager or a boss that really invests in them and develops them. There's something to be said for that.
00:05:43
Speaker
I guess what I meant. And I started at Dairy Queen my first job ever at 16. Me too. I was 15. Cool treats and the hot eats or just the cool treats? No, we did both. Yeah. Yeah. So well, we have that in common. And I think what I meant, I miss said it is, you know, high turnover. You said we have it at facilities and you're going to have to do.
00:06:02
Speaker
Is that because it's so hard to manage a facility? Yeah, it's tough, but the hours are tough, right? There's a limit to what, you know, when people get kind of past the high school college age and they're looking for kind of a normal schedule that doesn't have them going to work at 4 p.m. and home at 1 a.m., there's a time limit that they're willing to do that. And it's just, it's built in.
00:06:27
Speaker
Right. It's just it happens. Yeah, you burn out if you do it for too long. That's for sure. So yeah, you know, what's the best way you think to attract the right talent? And do you think the right talent is somebody who's come from somebody like Chick-fil-A or would you rather get somebody green that you could train the way you want? So that's a really great question. And the answer to it
00:06:51
Speaker
is maybe not what you expect. The way to attract the right candidate, number one, is have a very clear definition of the profile of the type of person that you want, right, for the particular role. Doesn't necessarily mean, you know, if you're hiring a maintenance guy, right, or a person, a maintenance person, or you're hiring a facilities person to clean the facility or an empty trash stuff, doesn't necessarily matter that they come with a certain type of experience,
00:07:21
Speaker
Maybe not, maybe, maybe not. But what matters is finding somebody who's really, really satisfied with that immediate gratification of scrubbing a cord or washing some glass and seeing how good it looks, right? If you try to put somebody who is not satisfied by that into that role, they're not going to be in it very long. So step one is
00:07:48
Speaker
really nailed down. These are the qualities, not skills, but qualities of person that I want for this particular role. And then try and define, okay, where's the best place where they could be from that they would come to me with that. Right? Because I can train you to do anything, right? I can train pretty much anybody to do anything. Whether that job or role is satisfying for you is not a training issue. That's a character thing, right? That's a values thing. That's, that's,
00:08:17
Speaker
Am I really, really satisfied? Like, do people get jazzed by interacting with people or are you an introvert? Right. If you're, if you are just wiped out after going to a party or a social event, you probably shouldn't be working my front desk. Yep. Just probably shouldn't. Right. So screening for that is, is how to answer your question about how to attract the talent. Number one, know what you're looking for. Then number two, know where to find them. Right. Lil Kickers is really, really good at this. If everybody's out there that works with Lil Kickers.
00:08:46
Speaker
They figured out a long time ago that the best coaches for their classes are not soccer people, they're theater kids. And so they went for theater kids, right? And that's how they get really, really good coaches for these things. Cause they don't need to be good at soccer. They need to be good at engaging those kids. Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
right, and being entertaining for those kids. Well, that's really cool. So, when you say, you know, defining, you know, define who they are, a lot of people, I've heard people call this an avatar, right? So, who is your ideal avatar? They're this, this, you know, define what that person looks like. I've even heard people name them, right? So, like, Brian, he drives a Prius, he lives downtown, he's 27, you know, like, to identify that, and then you know where they go, right? Like, oh, these people hang out here, or they go to these places, so you know where to go to attract them.
00:09:35
Speaker
For that, though, going back to kind of personality is really what you're talking about when it comes to what position you fit right in. Do you use personality tests or have you ever used the personality test? I have. Yeah, I have. There are some good tools out there, right? If you're going to use one, make sure you're paying for it as something that's like scientifically created and
00:09:55
Speaker
not just like a free, something free on the web, right? This is the most important thing you do, right, is find people for your team. So skimping on the hiring process is like the last possible place that you should skimp. So if there's a personality test that you think is valuable to you, fine. If it's going to inform your hiring process, fine. But make sure it's an actual tool, not just like a
00:10:19
Speaker
something you'd see in Cosmo or Teen Vogue or something, right? Not that. Yeah, we've used disc, we've used a couple of different things. I truly do. I think the key for me was, we actually, we found a Rockstar employee kind of by accident and then we gave them the personality test and now we know exactly what the new people coming in should metric to fit in that position.
00:10:42
Speaker
So for me, that was eye opening because at first I was like, well, how do we know that they should be? What personality should they be in this position? Well, once you have somebody that excels in that position, give them the personality test and just copy and paste. Now give it to all the new artists. The same is probably going to work out. Yeah. And then and then find out where you're going to find those people. What's the highest likelihood of of a concentration of those people?
00:11:05
Speaker
Right. Where have you seen that work the best? I'm full time. I think it's a little different. We use Indeed. Where do you think for full time have you seen success for, you know, facility managers and things like that? It's yeah. Indeed doesn't do it. It's recruiting. Right. The best qualified people aren't looking for a job there to have that. So you got to go find it. So one of the best facility managers I ever had did not come from a sports background.
00:11:29
Speaker
She was a bartender, a very successful bartender, right? And if you think about it, this is exactly the personality profile I want, right? You're sociable, and you enjoy being social, right? You want to build relationships with people quickly, read people quickly, keep about a thousand things in your head at any given time, and be able to count money, right? Yes, that, right?
00:11:56
Speaker
If anybody's trying to get out of the restaurant world and like not work till three or four a.m. Hey, they may be not be ready to work from eight to five, but it's a step in the right direction. Hey, how about going home at midnight or eleven instead of three a.m., right? And they're going, man. Right. And not rely on tips. So that's just one example right for from a management standpoint for a facility manager. But it's it's
00:12:22
Speaker
When you like you said, when you find that quality, whether it's a disc profile or you got lucky with somebody and somebody's just kicking tail out of nowhere. Right. And they're just like, man, I need more of you. Where do I find them? Incentivize them right to like, look, I'll give you 500 bucks if you if you refer somebody to to me, that's kind of like you. Right. And they and they get hired if there are people they typically hang around people that are like them. Right. We're tribal as humans. Right. We're tribal.
00:12:51
Speaker
So people, we like to hang around people that are like us. We know people that are like us. So incentivize it. When you found the bartender that became a great facility manager, was that by accident or were you out hitting every bar? I actually didn't hire that person. She was already there when I joined the organization. But when I moved into a hiring role, it just smacked me in the face like, man, we don't necessarily need sports people. I'm not hiring coaches most of the time, right?
00:13:21
Speaker
I need business people, I need social people, I need people that are passionate about training staff and developing staff. That's the type of person that I need. I don't care if you watch ESPN 28, 30 hours a week. I don't care. That has no bearing on how well you're gonna do with this job.
00:13:38
Speaker
So then you said really it's not about job applications on Facebook and Indeed. And so have you, is it like a recruiting company or have you found specific ways to go out and recruit people or find? You should still do all those things, right? Like you should absolutely put your, look, you can't, if people don't know that you're hiring, they're not gonna, they're not gonna see it, right? They're not even gonna think of somebody, oh man, I'm not good for that, but I know somebody who might, right? Share it, sponsor those job ads, right? If you think you're getting seen on free job boards now, you're not.
00:14:08
Speaker
No, you're not. So put a budget there again for people that I don't want to spend any money. It is the most important thing you do. Yeah. Right. Spend the money, spend the money, get it right. Or you're going to be doing it again in 90 days.
00:14:24
Speaker
So what is, you kind of already touched on this a little bit, but, you know, depending on the, say, let's take out the role specifically, is there something you look for in a hire that, that, you know, maybe isn't obvious to somebody else that maybe is running a facility or a manager other than the bartending, the speaking, just depending on the role, right? But is there one quality maybe you look for? Yes. Yes. Humility. Right. And I really mean speaking only for me, right?
00:14:53
Speaker
I really don't get along with people who think they already know everything. You're not going to be a good fit on my team. I've been doing this a heck of a lot longer than most people and I don't even close to knowing everything. So if you think that because you played college sports or something
00:15:12
Speaker
And you want to work in a facility like this that, you know, everything there is to know about basketball or soccer or whatever. Yeah. You're probably not going to work out here. So that eagerness to learn, you know, that, that humility to say, yes, I have a lot of passion, I have passion for this, but I actually don't know.
00:15:32
Speaker
man, you did it, you're a sports guy, you opened a facility, it smacked you in the face for the first eight years, right? About, you don't know. Like, you don't know what this is gonna be like until you actually get into it, right? And it's not split. That I would be doing, running the leagues, I mean, it's just unbelievable. Things you just don't know until you do it, so. Don't know. You think you know, you think you know, but you don't, you don't. So, that's absolutely number one, is just,
00:15:59
Speaker
If somebody comes into an interview with me and just says, look, I've never done this before, but I'm really eager to learn. Like that's a giant green NASCAR racing flag, right? That is a huge green flag to me. Cause the rest of it, I can, I can interview you for, for your ability to learn. Right. I can, I can get some examples for there. I can, I can get some references about like, are you just saying that or, or, or is that actually been in your history that you're really eager to learn? I,
Effective Hiring Practices
00:16:25
Speaker
you know, I can do that too, but I can't train humility.
00:16:29
Speaker
You got to come to the table with that. Yeah, I totally agree. And a couple of things that you said kind of backtracking a little bit is, you know, it all starts with the hiring, right? Don't skimp there, put some money into it, go out, like, put all your time into finding the right person so that you don't have to do it again and find that right person. One of the things I found was really successful for us in whether it's part-time and even full-time,
00:16:52
Speaker
I'm pitching my vision, right? Like, hey, today you may be starting as this basketball official or today you may be starting as the league manager, right? But, like, here's where we're going. Here's what we want to do. Here's all the things that we're trying to accomplish in the next three years. And if you like here and you succeed here, you're going to be able to choose some of the positions that you want to go into.
00:17:08
Speaker
And so that's been really successful for me to keep people long term because not only do they believe in the vision, I've been able to execute on that and be able to move them quickly. And by quickly, it's a couple of years, but we're actually hitting goals, we're hitting those sort of things. So do you find that successful in hiring your umpire for a basketball league? Have you had any experience with that? Yeah, no, yeah. It's absolutely crucial in your recruiting as well, right? Nobody wants to apply to a dead end job.
00:17:34
Speaker
Nobody wants to apply to the job. So if you're not in your job ads advertising that this is just step one on a career path and here are the thing here is where you could go or even profiling somebody in your job ad who actually did that. If you're not doing that, that was not inspiring. Right. Why would I just the job description of a whole bunch of bullet points of what I'm going to be doing as I'm working your front desk? No, that's not no.
00:18:03
Speaker
Having that career path, whatever that looks like for you, right? And posting it in the facility, posting it in your offices, reminding people of it, celebrating when people take the next step, right? That get promoted, that learn a new skill, that take a step towards getting promoted, celebrate it, make it public, show people that you've put your money where your mouth is, right? That this wasn't just lip service, that I want to promote you.
00:18:32
Speaker
It is a win for me to promote you, right? Like if you, but you have to be qualified for it, or I'm doing the whole rest of the team of disservice. It is absolutely critical that they can see a path with very, very clear, what do I need to do to take the next step in that path so that they're not coming and just kind of right doing this all day. Yep. Right. And this whole thing about nobody wants to work. Yes, they do.
00:19:02
Speaker
They just don't want to work for nothing. I'm so glad you said that. I was actually the next thing I was going to say is I meet with so many business owners and so many facility people that are like, we can't find staff. We can't find staff. And to your point, if you're not advertising a position with goals and future, they're just using that position. They don't want to go there. First of all, if they do come there, they're just using it as a temporary thing until they find the thing they want to do because you haven't incentivized them enough to actually want to do it.
00:19:28
Speaker
And if you don't believe in it, if you're like, oh, it's just a part-time job or a umpire position, then why should they care either? So, you know, I look at it as every position, the umpire, the staff, you know, manager, the facility, you know, cleaner is a stepping stone. Like, let's start you here because you need to know how to do this if you're going to be up here. And so unless, and that's again, my opinion is people, we're not struggling hired staff and it's because we figured it out several years ago. And so I think it all starts with everything. We've only gone through like two steps and I think we're like,
00:19:57
Speaker
20 minutes in but it all starts with your your entire hiring process as a funnel finding the right people and then funneling them down to find the perfect person for your position and then that just starts it right you still have to train them very very picky be very very picky a lot of people wait too long in the year they wait till they're right up against hiring season and now they're in a rush and they're taking the least bad candidate yep it's not can't right you you are you are
00:20:25
Speaker
you are gonna regret that because that person is gonna quit in the middle of your hell week in January, right? They're gonna quit because they're gonna be like, I don't need this, right? And it's because you as the manager didn't do your job right.
00:20:40
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's not them. I agree. Not them. And people have always said it, you know, higher, higher, slow, or sorry, higher, slow, fire fast. And I've heard that sometimes, and I still didn't do it for years. And so it really is like, get started. Now, if you know, you got to hire somebody next year and take your time, find the right person, you know, a good time.
00:20:58
Speaker
craft something for them and how we typically do it what three people come in and sometimes I'm not happy with those three people I start back over I don't even hire those three you know a lot to your point a lot of people just pick the one right hey we got three let's take one but I you know for us and I didn't do this like I said for eight years but now we're at a point where it's like if they're not a fit we start back over and we try and find something in our hand get them out yep get them out as quickly as you can and and look the other thing too is
00:21:24
Speaker
Your recruiting process for your next manager shouldn't start when that person gives you their notice, right? You can't start then. If somebody gives you a two week notice and you haven't done any, you haven't done any recruiting, you don't have anybody in a funnel, in a tickle that has a job somewhere that like, man, I don't have anything for you right now, right? There's nothing out there that says you have to only interview when you have a job opening. There's nothing that says that, right? That's not a rule.
00:21:54
Speaker
right? Go, go, go take somebody for coffee. Like, hey, man, I just I experienced you or I got a I got a referral. And I'd like to take you to coffee and see if you might be a good fit for what we do.
00:22:08
Speaker
What's the worst that could happen? Two things there for me at least, like I actually went back, you mentioned an employee, you know, going away and getting experience and coming back or starting at a Chick-fil-A and coming there. Like that actually happened with two of my managers. I mentioned Greg actually. They were my first employees ever. They were just officials, right? And then they were leaving college and wanted the big pay and I couldn't really give it to them.
00:22:28
Speaker
So they went out to, you know, big boy job, big company job. We're there for two years, hated it. And then one of them mentioned they might want to come back. And so I curated them over six months to see what do you want? What do you guys want to do here? When can I afford you? Like, it took six months to bring both of them back. And life has never been better for all of us. And so to your point, like, there is no timeline. Take as long as it takes. Take a year. If you can find the right person that makes your job better, your life easier, and your customer service and business better, then why not take as long as it takes? And continually be interviewing.
00:22:58
Speaker
Always be interviewing, right? What's the worst? What's the worst that could happen? You get practiced with an interview? That's the worst that happens, right? I think it's important. We briefly, I want to move past the hiring process because there's so much more to it. But I think we briefly talked about, you know, interviewing, right? Make sure you're talking to your HR professional on what you can and can't say.
00:23:18
Speaker
We're not lawyers, we're not HR people. I'm not going to give you advice on that, but I've made mistakes on things you can and can't say. I've had employees do it in front of me. So just make sure you're getting the right questions and the right things you can ask. Talk to an HR professional before you go into that and get some training, right? Because an interview... Get training. You too, right? Like if you bomb an interview as a facility manager, you act like you don't care, say the wrong things, you could lose a great employee. So it's really important for you to get training on that. Get training. Get training.
00:23:44
Speaker
It's you can find it out there. There are formal interviewing training courses out there. It will be the best investment you make that that you actually know how to interview somebody. So on to the training kick. Right. So we've got our job out there. We found somebody. We found somebody great. We got them hired. We've incentivized them. You know, what are your thoughts on, you know, are there best systems or practices for training them once they're on board? Yeah. And I'll just reiterate. Right. Have a plan.
00:24:13
Speaker
have a plan, right? Training is not whatever comes up that day. That's what you're going to get training on that. It doesn't work. You're going to end up with glaring holes in your, in your employees training. It's, and it will show its head at the worst possible time, right? Like have a plan, have a plan, have it measurable, have tests and quizzes so they can prove that they have retained what you have trained them, right?
00:24:42
Speaker
and you can have the evidence. I do say to people, and this, you can disagree with me, because it gets kind of controversial sometimes, a lot of managers will start training an employee on the simplest part of their job function. And I, a lot of, in our business, right, it's usually waivers, right? Like you start with waivers. Waivers, waivers, right, it's very important. Okay, yes, waivers. But,
00:25:09
Speaker
If you've ever experienced when, when just the business, when it's going off the rails, right. And games are running late and officials haven't showed up and parents are screaming and this and that. What happens is the default switch for that employee will just go, I'm just going to start doing waivers.
00:25:31
Speaker
because that's what they know best, right, is doing waivers. So I would propose to you and our listeners that start with the most critical function that that person will have, right? Whether that's conflict resolution, whether that's the answer in the phone and being able to know where to find information when people call or email or whatever,
00:25:58
Speaker
If it's game operations, right? Making sure games stay on time. If that is the most critical part of that particular role, train them on that first and make sure that they know the why behind it as well as they know the back of their hand, right? Because there will be days where they just don't feel like it or there will be days when other team members are going, I don't care. Why does it matter if we're 10 minutes late? It matters.
00:26:24
Speaker
matters and here's the reasons why it matters. So in terms of having a system, right, start with the most critical, start with the most important, because the most common ones are probably going to be the easiest, right? So being able to take and file a waiver is not difficult, right? On several ways. And you mentioned, you know, I've heard it called Eat the Frog. I think it's a book, but it basically do the hardest thing first, right? Like every hardest thing first, because now the rest of the day is cake, right?
00:26:53
Speaker
So I love that and I never really thought about that in the training way So I really really like that because to your point Yeah, once you you know if things get stressful you just go to what you know, you know And so they they're gonna go back to that waiver hole. Um, so I love that You know, what are your thoughts on as far as like is there any systems that you use? Like you said had a plan, you know, we use Google Docs We use forums and video trainings and things like that. Is there anything specific that you've seen in the facility world? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, well, yeah, so it really depends on the size of your operation,
Training and Development of Employees
00:27:23
Speaker
right? So if you only have three or four employees, probably not worth it to invest in a learning management system, right? There are tons of them out there, but this is essentially a place where you can put all your coursework, all your quizzes, all your documents, all that stuff in one place and be able to measure people's progress through that training. What that does for you is if you have to make a change,
00:27:49
Speaker
You can make a change to a course or you can add a new module and you can measure that everybody has received that training. If you have a large operation, you have 60, 70, 80 employees, right? It's the only way you're going to keep track.
00:28:05
Speaker
I promise you, it is the only way you're gonna keep track. You'll know exactly how long they've spent in it, how fast their click-through rates are, their performance level on quizzes and all that. And it's all digital and no binders, right? We're not doing three-ring binders with dittos, right? This isn't 1989. We don't have to do that.
00:28:23
Speaker
But if you have a smaller operation there, yeah, there are Google forms there. You can put it quizzes in Google forms. You could do it there. All those tools have something that's measurable that you can benchmark against that. You could say, we expect a new hire to go from this phase to this phase to this phase in a particular period of time. If they're not making it, we either have to do something or we have to get them gone, right? Have a way.
00:28:50
Speaker
So, and look, almost everybody who starts into this thing is not an expert either on interviewing or on training adults. You're not. Get some training.
00:29:03
Speaker
get some training. That will make all the difference in your success in your career. Because all the knowledge you have is great. If you can't pass that knowledge on, it's not going to help the organization. Yep. And I agree. I think things there. One, I want to go back to what you said earlier is like, teach them the why. I always relate this to like when your parents- Always target why.
00:29:23
Speaker
your parents were always like, because I said so. No, I got to eat that. No, like, well, that doesn't tell me why I have to do it. And then you're like, well, screw, you know, so if you're just like, it matters because it matters. They don't care. They don't understand. You got to teach them the why. So I 100% agree with that. And then training, to your point, like, again, eight years of me sitting side by side with somebody for almost two weeks teaching them new things out of my brain, right? Well, that takes away two weeks of my time. I've been doing something else, generating more revenue, just making the company better. Right.
00:29:51
Speaker
that I have to give my time to somebody else to train them and I did that for a long time. We just had a, I want to brag a little bit. We just had two to start last week and in three days they were up and running on their own accomplishing tasks by themselves because we've now automated the training so much that they basically go through, to your point, I love the Google Forms and the tasks. You can do it, like you said, quizzes, right?
00:30:13
Speaker
It's a video and then they have to go and complete an action because everybody learns differently. Some people learn by reading, some people learn by watching, listening, some people learn by doing. So we kind of try to give everybody this, all those options. Watch the video, listen to the video and then go complete a step so you know how to actually do it. Get some practice.
00:30:29
Speaker
And we've created that automation in there so that for three days, I'm not sitting there, nobody's sitting there with them. They go through the training, they complete the training. You know, there's breaks here and there in between with the facility floor and, you know, HR and all that stuff. But that to me, I was so happy in three days when I saw them start completing things that I was like, yeah, the fastest we've ever done. And so now I'm like, can I get it even faster? You know, it's like, yes, you can. Yeah, you can. It's, you know, and really to to to just add one layer in there.
00:30:58
Speaker
inserting your mission right and your values every time they open up a new quiz or whatever it should be right there in front of them right it should be this is what we're trying to accomplish right this is why we do things the way that we do them in the macro sense each little task has its own why but on the macro sense this is who we are and this is why we do things the way that we do them
00:31:23
Speaker
And look, especially if you've done, you probably had this happen. You spend two weeks with somebody and then they look at you go, this isn't for me. And now you got to do it again. You're starting all over again. Now you spent four weeks or six. Yep. Right. And you don't have that time. No. Right. Back in the day, I would literally be like, well, I'm just going to do it myself. And that happens all the time, man. Like I could just do it. It's faster if I do it. Yeah. OK.
00:31:50
Speaker
that it might be, but the opportunity cost isn't worth it. Yeah, right. No, yeah, it goes back to the quality, the value of your time, right? The value of your time is more important or more costly than the value of the time that you're hiring for. And so you don't want to be stuck in that position. But again, it's you don't know what you don't know, right? I wish I'd have met you years ago because it took me a long time.
00:32:09
Speaker
Tell your friends. This is what U.S. is here for, folks. This is why we're here. That's right. U.S. Indoor Association, for sure. So, okay. So, moving a little bit further. So, we've got them on. We're, you know, we're training them. You know, what are some things that you see? Like, you know, all right, they've been here six months. They've been here a year. What are the things you continue to train them on? Are there safety trainings? Like, what are the things that you build in every year? And how do you, how are ways that you maybe manage that? Yeah, you have to. And the stuff that's just kind of generally boring, right? Like,
00:32:40
Speaker
emergency procedures, right? Or, you know, bloodborne pathogen cleanups and things like that. It's just kind of not like nobody go, Oh man, we get to do bloodborne pathogen training today. It's not fun. Nobody likes it, but you can make games out of it, right? Make a competition out of it. We work in sports. There is no shortage of an urge to have a competitive, you know, thing, even a very micro competitive thing. There's no urge or no lack of urge to do that.
00:33:10
Speaker
make it fun, buy them lunch, right? And just maybe not pack it into a whole day. It's really easy to do micro trainings, right? Where you're just kind of constantly spending 20, 30 minutes, maybe an hour on things instead of an eight hour long training day where all you're doing is emergency procedures and you are gonna lose people and they're not gonna retain any of that nonsense, right? So for the stuff that just has to be recurring,
00:33:39
Speaker
get it on a schedule, get it on a recurring schedule, right? So everybody knows that every third Tuesday we're doing this, and every fourth Thursday we're doing this, and reiterate it in your pre-shift huddles, all that, just make it just a part of the repetition so nobody sees it on the calendar coming up and then they're rolling their eyes going,
00:33:58
Speaker
How can I get out of this? Right. Just keep it rolling. Right. Just keep that stuff rolling to your point. Right. Like no matter how fun and all day eight hour training is, nobody wants to do it. Right. Nobody wants to do that. You can make it smaller and gamify it. People are going to look forward to it and be excited about it. And yeah, and they get free pizza or whatever out of it. Like, come on, just it's the most important thing you do. Right. Like it can save somebody's life.
00:34:23
Speaker
Hire the right people, train them right. Like that can literally save somebody's life. Take it seriously, make sure, and they'll understand. They just don't want to do it eight hours straight. And then have to go to work because they've done that from, you know, eight to four or whatever. Now the facility's open from four to whatever. Nobody wants to do that. It's going to make for a bad, angry evening for sure.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah, it won't be fun. It won't be fun for anybody. I acted a little bit like of training and I know this is kind of not controversial, but is the training differ between full-time, part-time and contractors? You know, what are kind of the differences there and we can talk at a high level. Yeah, so definitely talk to your HR people because contractors, it is very, very specific on what you can and can't do with people when you're in a contractor relationship with them. So we'll just set that aside because like you should talk to your legal team about
00:35:11
Speaker
what you can and can't do with contractors to keep yourself out of trouble. In terms of like trainings that you do for everybody, no, there's no difference, right? There's no difference. Because if you're training on a high level, let's say you're doing some training on league parity and how to do all that. And you have somebody that's only been working for you for
00:35:35
Speaker
three or four weeks, right? And maybe you're thinking, ah, that's too advanced for you and you don't really need, you don't really need that. But they show some interests, let them in, pay them for it, right? Because the worst that happens is you were right and it's too advanced for them, right? The best that happens is they go, oh yeah, I get that. And we could also do this, this, and this. And you're going, you've only been here three weeks and you already understand what took me six or seven years to get.
00:36:03
Speaker
It look give them the opportunity to prove you right or wrong, right? But don't reserve training and learning Because oh, well, you can't have that until you've been with me six months That doesn't do anybody any good right and that will shut them down It makes you look kind of kind of not very nice, right? Because why reserve that knowledge now? Give them if you really do think they don't have the context and they don't have the background to understand it
00:36:33
Speaker
let them prove it, right? Because in 10 minutes, they're gonna be like, oh, nevermind. I haven't even passed geometry and this is calculus, right? And they'll tell you, you were right. I'm sorry, I'm not ready for that, but what can I do to get ready to be ready for it? It's the worst that happens, right? No problem. So when it comes to that kind of stuff, you know, training specifically around operations in the facility that really anybody could do, don't be stingy.
00:37:02
Speaker
let people come and not force them to come, but let them come. Then in terms of your part-time people, think of your training, your training now and development now as an investment for when they do become full-time or when they do come back next season. That's just less time you have to spend doing it next time.
00:37:28
Speaker
Maybe you don't have as many hours a week with them. That's okay. Maybe their training process or development process is protracted. It's long because they're students and they only work 20 hours a week. And so you can only really spend maybe 90 minutes a week or whatever in training. That's okay. No problem. Just keep them moving on that path. That plan that we talked about earlier, right? Keep them moving, whether they think they want to or not, keep them moving. Nothing bad happens from that.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I think we skimmed over it a little bit earlier. Everything you just said, I agree with. I would definitely disagree if I did. I would tell you. I love it when you disagree. I think we skimmed over a part that I kind of wanted to touch on was, you know, the metrics, you know, having a plan, obviously that's a high level, but metrics.
Assessing Employee Fit and Motivation
00:38:14
Speaker
how often you check in right after you hire. So, you know, for me, the way we've done it, we typically check in after a week, make sure everything's good. What are you missing? What things we could have done better, you know, and then I do a month and then three months. And we even tell them this from the hiring process, the interviews and everything that, you know, we're pretty strict in the first three months, you're gonna have set hours, you know, and everybody's different. My culture is I'm trying to build freedom for everyone. And so we say, hey, the first three months, you're gonna have set hours every day. You're here from that time, Monday through Friday, this is it.
00:38:42
Speaker
But once you hit three months, you've trained, you've proved, you know, proved that you can work here, you proved that you're part of the team. And so we kind of let you free and you get that freedom to make your own schedule and come and go as you kind of please as long as you're getting things done. We're all happy. So what kind of check ins, you know, do you have? And then after that, we actually do quarterly reviews. But I'm curious, you know, the check ins that you kind of do. Yeah. Yeah. So you really have two. Right. One is one is cultural. It's values based. And you're you're checking on whether their behavior, their language,
00:39:11
Speaker
The relationships they're building and how they're treating the other people on the team are fitting with the culture that you want to build. If you get that wrong and you let somebody who's toxic for your team stay, ask me how I know.
00:39:28
Speaker
If you let them stay, they will do massive, massive damage to your team. Get them gone. Make sure you've got a structure in your employment agreement or whatever that says we can fire you if within this time period, we think you're not a fit.
00:39:48
Speaker
without warning, you're gone, right? No write-ups. Make sure that you have it. Of course, make it legal, right? You have to have it, make it legal. So you've got the cultural side that I think is far more important. Then you've got the actual training side, that how well are they absorbing what you're teaching them and how well are they putting it in practice? I have a lot more patience for people that just pick it up a little bit more slowly than I have for people that are bad cultural fits.
00:40:17
Speaker
Right. So if there's somebody just picking it up more slowly, you know, a good leader will always look in concentric circles around their desk, right? If they have, if something's gone, not going right, or as well as they wanted to, you have to look here first, right? Like what, what can I look at? Maybe they need someone on one. Maybe they need to talk it through with somebody, a process. Maybe they're the video, just like they just go blank, right? If it's longer than two minutes, you know, cause we live in a Tik TOK world, right? If it's longer than Tik TOK.
00:40:48
Speaker
They're not used to paying attention to it if they can't swipe through it. Right. So maybe they need some difference. If it gets to a point where, you know, you've gotten to your 90 day mark and they're not anywhere close to where you need them to be for a performance, then you make that you got to just do the math and make the make the call, whether I'm going to continue to spend to invest in this person or I'm going to move on to the next one. So really two of them. The cultural one is way more important.
00:41:18
Speaker
Right. Way more important. Listen to your team when they tell you a boss. I, I think this one we might not have, might not have been a good one. Listen to your team. Again, ask me how I know.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, no, I can relate to that. Like I said, I took me four years for one person to let them go that I should let go. I got quicker later, but we did a three month one, I think a couple of years ago, and then earlier this year, we had a one month, and it was actually both sides. My team came to me after one month, and we're like, I don't think this person's a fit. And we're like, I don't think I'm a fit. And we're like, hey, well, I'm glad we're all at the same pace here, but... Yeah, right.
00:41:56
Speaker
quicker. I mean, just the quicker you can do it and get off, you know, it's better for you and them, right? The longer that you're not having fun, you know, they're not enjoying it if they're not succeeding. Like, it's making it worse for your company. Like, it's better for both. Making it worse for everybody. Making it worse for your team. Making it worse for the bottom line. Making it worse for your customers. That is a cancer or a grenade on a timer. Whatever you analogy or metaphor that you want. Get that person out of there as quickly as you can.
00:42:22
Speaker
So you mentioned culture, a couple more things, and then I will wrap this up. But how do you create a culture where employees are motivated to continue to succeed? Are you a Dan Pink guy? Do you know about Dan Pink? I don't. All right. Look at Dan Pink. So Dan Pink used a couple of TED Talks, several books, right? Absolutely worth it. His topic, right, his area of research is around human motivation. And
00:42:52
Speaker
I'm not going to do him a disservice by quoting a bunch of his stuff. Go, go read some Dan pink. It's really good stuff. But in general, uh, if, if you have created a culture where you just expect your employees and your team to, to work for you and you're not working for them and you're not continually getting better and investing in yourself, becoming a better leader, learning a new skill, given them what they need, right?
00:43:22
Speaker
When they come to you or you look at them and you've seen this, I guarantee you've seen this. You look at somebody and you can tell that they don't need to be here today. They got something going on. If you can swing it, send that person and pay them for it. Pay them for the day. Send them all. That will go light years in terms of, wow, this not only did they care for me because I'm not feeling very good today emotionally, physically, whatever.
00:43:49
Speaker
But they're, they're also caring for me and like, no, I'm not just going to send you home sick and then not pay you. You're on the schedule for the day. I budgeted to pay you. I'm not going to add insult to injury by then shorten you on your paycheck too. Yeah. Little things like that, where you, you really put your money where your mouth is. You say if you, if you say you care for your employees, you find every opportunity possible to show them that you care for them.
00:44:14
Speaker
And it is really, really important that the number one thing that you do in, in, in this particular way in creating culture is that you are continually getting better, right? You do not have nobody listening, nobody, nobody, nobody has everything they need to be excellent at this right now. You don't.
00:44:38
Speaker
Get some coaching, watch a TED Talk, read a book, get the Harvard Business Review, whatever, do something every single day.
00:44:48
Speaker
Do something, do something, watch this podcast, right? Do something every single day that's gonna make you a little bit better, incrementally better, 1% better, right? You will be surprised at how fast the people around you start asking, hey, what was that thing you were talking about, right? What was that TED Talk you were talking about? What's that book you're reading? I've noticed a difference, what is that? Them seeing you getting incrementally and measurably better is going to inspire them
00:45:18
Speaker
Right. To get incrementally and measurably better. Right. If you're making their job easier, you're removing obstacles, you're, you're thinking through processes going, you know what, this one might be a little, I think we might be doing this one a little bit dumb. What do you guys think? I think we might be wasting some time here. It goes a huge way to give them weigh in, right? Weigh in before buy in. You've heard this before, right? We're in for buying. If you're making a decision, involve them, involve them.
00:45:46
Speaker
and be careful with that word motivation, right? Because it almost sounds like I'm trying to manipulate you with something, right? Or it's a carrot and a stick, not motivation, inspiration, right? And it sounds, you know, it sounds kidgy, whatever, but it's true. People stay in environments and continue to come to environments in which they're inspired.
00:46:07
Speaker
that's it
00:46:25
Speaker
letting them go letting them take the day off when they need the day off or you know buying them a standing desk that maybe cost you 200 bucks right like those things go so far and they're gonna thank you so much worth that you know those are the things that motivates them and want to keep them there and again it you know i want them to have those things i want them to be able to stand and be healthy and be happy and all those things so to your point it's not like i'm doing it as a please stay with me it's like no i want these things for you which also
00:46:49
Speaker
business better, make my life better. And then the other thing you said is, you know, we do knowledge there. My team will all get together and we all like, hey, did you see this? And a lot of times it's about technology and improving our productivity. I'm the one who talks at most of those things because I'm constantly trying to improve my productivity and get better. And so I teach them things and, you know, you're absolutely right at that meeting. People are writing down and asking questions. And then I show them, like, I also did this for my personal life, which helped me here. And so it's making their lives better, which again, to your point, motivates them and like, hey, I want to get better, too.
00:47:19
Speaker
And so the next time you have a meeting, it's inspiring. Yes. And then they're bringing more to the table because they don't want it to seem like I'm the only one doing that. So I love that. And I completely agree. Like the more you can include them in things, be transparent, not the, because I said so, the more they're going to work harder because they care. So last question, you know, what unique challenges do you think the sport, you know, live in the sports industry today around hiring and retention?
Industry Challenges and Conclusion
00:47:50
Speaker
Dan Pink, we'll go back to him for a second. Dan Pink will tell you in terms of compensation, pay them enough that money's off the table. Now, there's a limit to that, right? If somebody's coming to work your front desk and they want $38 an hour, not, right? No, that's not happening. But look, if you want the best, if you want the best people working for you, pay the best. You can't expect
00:48:19
Speaker
major league talent for minor league pay, you just can't. So figure it out. Go back to the budget drawing board, right? Figure it out. How much are you willing to pay for that rock star employee, right? How much are you willing to pay? Even if it stretches you a little bit, stretch it, right? What's it going to raise your cost per team? Five bucks?
00:48:44
Speaker
Like to have the best team, you're going to worth it, do that. Raise your beer prices 10% to pay for it. Figure it out. Figure it out. That's number one. Pay is a big problem. We've seen starting pay for front desk people all the way up to managers skyrocket in the last three years.
00:49:09
Speaker
Right. You cannot now expect somebody to work 4 p.m. to midnight, five days a week and pay him forty two thousand dollars. You can't. So figure it out. Not in somebody that knows what they're doing. Yeah. Isn't that not going to happen? So figure the compensation out. The timing in which we work right is also a big challenge, like because we work nights and weekends, we just do.
00:49:40
Speaker
Does that mean you have to work all nights and weekends? I don't think so. It means you got to work some though. Right? Maybe you have to work most, but not all. Care for people for their lives, right? Especially people with kids. If you expect somebody with kids to work 4 p.m. to midnight, they're not going to be working for you very long because they're never going to see their kids.
00:50:01
Speaker
And that's not gonna happen, right? They can't do it. So just care for the whole person and make sure that you talk about that in your job ads, right? Like say, listen, yes, we expect a lot, but we also invest a lot in you, right? We develop you. We care for you as a whole person. And here's all the reviews or testimonials that from current or former employees that say, yes, I loved working there. I just got it. I moved or I got my dream job or whatever, but I loved working.
00:50:31
Speaker
do that, right? I like that idea. You don't have to just limit yourself to entry level at whatever age, entry level, turn and burn type employees. You're never going to get anywhere. It is a big problem in the industry where we, you know, especially seasonal people, oh, we just hire people. We just need bodies. Then you're never going to get there. You're never going to get there. You're going to always be running on the wheel for sure. I'm never going to get there.
00:51:00
Speaker
As always, amazing conversation. For anybody out there looking to automate their facility management from reservations, memberships, leaks, lessons, and more, check out facilityallie.com. If you're looking to learn more about facility management, check out more around our Facility Playbook podcast, but also check out the U.S. Indoor. Really appreciate you, Chuck. Thanks for being on today and sharing your knowledge, and we'll catch you next time on the Facility Playbook. Thanks, Ben.