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Inter Miami and the Barca Boys win MLS Cup
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The 2025 MLS season is a wrap following Inter Miami and the Barca Boys' 3-1 victory over the Vancouver Whitecaps in Saturday's final at Chase Field. What, if any, implications does the Herons' victory have on the Seattle Sounders and their status within MLS? We'll debate that as part of our takeways from the league's title match, then dive into our Sounders offseason coverage.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Platform Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Lobbing Scorchers was previously recorded and streamed live on YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers. If you want to listen or catch these episodes live, see the video, and see all the rest of our content, go to YouTube.com slash at Lobbing Scorchers or LobbingScorchers.com slash YouTube.
Meet the Hosts and MLS Offseason Overview
00:00:22
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Why the scorcher today? Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:44
Speaker
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers Kickoff. I'm Ari. That's Nico. Big show for you all here this morning. It's officially the first show of the 2025 Major League Soccer offseason. The season is over after MLS Cup on Saturday.
Inter-Miami's MLS Cup Victory and Reactions
00:01:02
Speaker
Inter-Miami.
00:01:03
Speaker
Lionel Messi and the Barca boys have won it 3-1 over the Vancouver Whitecaps. We're going to be reacting to what we saw in that game and then talking about its greater implications for ah for MLS and what, if any, effect this has on ah on the Seattle Sounders. Later on, we'll hit as many Seattle Sounders updates as we have. Nico's got one for you on ah on Danny Leyva, and then we'll ah we'll talk a little bit more about what we could expect to see in the coming weeks.
00:01:33
Speaker
as the Sounders offseason gets going in in full gear. So excited to catch up with you, Nico. How are you doing here this morning? As you adjust your camera.
00:01:44
Speaker
And Nico, as We'll be right back. apparently so we are going to wait for him to sign back in off to a great start as always guys if you have questions thoughts topics agendas and grievances go ahead and drop them in chat whenney goes back in here will will ah get to as many of those as we can and also Sub to the channel.
Social Media and Merchandise Promotion
00:02:09
Speaker
ah Follow us on Instagram and TikTok. Become a YouTube member and buy the Lobby Scorchers hot sauce. Lobbyscorchers.com slash sauce. And there he is. He's back in the studio. Nico, let's try that again. What's up, man? How are you? How are you doing here this morning?
00:02:26
Speaker
Hey, what's going on? Can you hear me? I got you now. Yeah, we're having so some tech issues. I'm not sure it's on your end or my end. ah But yeah, it's one of those mornings where nothing's been working. But you know what? That is, I think, part of the the show. was part of the m MO. It might be a bit by now. yeah it wouldn't be one of our shows without it.
00:02:44
Speaker
ah ah ah But thank you for having me on. I did hear most of the introduction there. And yeah, was excited to talk about... As much as people don't want to hear it and don't want to, especially in the Pacific Northwest, Inter-Miami Championship, we'll talk about that game, whatever we can add on in terms of sounder stuff, of course, and look ahead at now yet another chapter of MLS that has come and gone.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I don't know how people feel about it. I'm interested to hear what the chat has to say about Messi winning another tournament to his title. First MLS, of course, title.
00:03:29
Speaker
Not counting the Shield, of course. So interested to hear what you guys got
Inter-Miami's Pressure and Project Validation
00:03:33
Speaker
to say. Yeah, well, let's just ah let's just start right there. Inter-Miami, they do finally get it over the line. They win and MLS Cup. First time in the Messi era that they've won MLS Cup. Like you mentioned, they have the Supporters' Shield and the Points record, and they have the 2023 Leagues Cup. But I do think there was a there was a narrative out there that even with those trophies, the Leagues Cup and the Shield, that the trophy hall had been kind of underachieving compared to what was expected when Messi got here. And we talked about it before the game. They had tons of pressure on them to win this game. It would have been, ah you know, I don't think, I think legacy defining, yeah even for Inter-Miami, not just Messi, would be a little... strong but like there was a lot of validation of their project and what they were trying to do in the messier was it was on the line in a lot of ways in that game because if they lose that game ah they got jordy alba and sergio busquets retiring messi's another year older i mean i think he is gonna put up like 60 goal contributions all competitions every year no matter how long he plays apparently But the point is, like you know you know know he might not play as many minutes this year as he had next year as he has been playing in the last couple years. You just don't know if you're going to get back there, even when you have Lionel Messi and a lot of the pieces that they have with a couple of the departures they had. So it was important for them for ah for their whole project to get this done. But let's ah before we talk about the implications of it, let's talk about the game itself because they had this game against the Whitecaps, ah a team that I think you and I both thought had a great chance of ah of getting this done. And it ends up 3-1. But, Nico, I feel like the Whitecaps, they were right there.
00:05:18
Speaker
They almost had it. They almost had it. They had it tied. But they to me, it's just like they did – They committed a lot of the Cardinal sins for not just a final, but especially a final against against Messi. They give up the first goal in the first like 10 minutes of the game off an own goal that like really didn't need to happen.
00:05:40
Speaker
ah And then after they get the equalizer, ah they like they the giveaway that they had on ah on the second goal that Inter-Miami got by ah from, ah who scored that? ah Rodrigo DePaul.
00:05:55
Speaker
Like, giveaways like that, you were you really can't have. And I think if you if you do those things, like you can't really be that aggrieved when you lose. Nico, what did you think of what you saw in the in the actual game?
00:06:14
Speaker
A lot of the same things you saw, Ari. This was a very competitive game.
Game Analysis: Inter-Miami vs. Vancouver Whitecaps
00:06:18
Speaker
i thought it was anyone's game for the majority of it. Jasper Sorensen and the Vancouver Whitecaps, I thought, started the game with the right...
00:06:29
Speaker
attitude um The right tempo But Focus a little bit too much on Maybe being the aggressor And because Show that they're a physical team right off the bat And they get put in a bad position On that first goal Now Anyone who could look at this game Even ah Before the equalizer And say that Inter-Miami was dominating the game or Inter-Miami was clearly better. i think that they are absolutely wrong.
00:07:06
Speaker
the goal comes of again a high line for Vancouver Whitecaps that wanted to pressure, wanted to make Miami uncomfortable. That was great, but you did have the risk of this new Miami on with Silvetti and Agenda that just seems to be, it went from a good team in transition to an elite team in transition because you have those two guys That was just exploding, just waiting for the chance to get behind the back line. And all it takes is one moment for a Agenda to get behind the back line.
00:07:40
Speaker
He has got a whole bunch of real estate in front of him. He is a guy that has enough speed to take care and take advantage of the sort of situation. Silvetti's on the other side making a very good run, and it forces Ocampo, Colombian defender who ironically had had such a phenomenal season, to try to cut that pass by Agende. And Maybe eight out of nine times, Ocampo is clearing that above the goal. He's putting it into you know the back of the bleachers. But in this one, the touch just isn't there, and it's an on-goal. And that early goal just changes the game for Vancouver Whitecaps. It obviously feeds into the oxygen of the stadium and them being the the host team.
00:08:29
Speaker
I do want to give credit to Machirano. I thought that he set up the team well. um I don't think um there were huge moments of opportunity for Inter-Miami, but taking care of that one chance. and And I don't want to discount the fact that it was an own goal. The own goals are part of the game and you got to create that opportunity. So it's due credit to to Agenda. Again, due credit to Silvetti for making that run and make forcing that playoff that moment. So after that, I think Vancouver, once again, maybe in the 30th minute, they begin to get a hold of the game and they create opportunities and they have chances and Mueller has one and,
00:09:12
Speaker
Sabi, the other Cardinal sin I was going to mention earlier that I couldn't think of, but the missed chances, the one that Sabi had to a level in the first half where, I mean, if he literally puts that anywhere else. Yeah, and Rios Noble makes himself huge, right? And that's credit to him. But yes, he's... But then he double-doinked it He double-doinked the off both posts later And it's just like If you want to have a chance of beating a team like Inter-Miami in a game like this Those have to go in like you you can't You're only going to have ah chances that good every every so often in a game like that And if you don't put them away That can be your your death sentence, as it were Yeah, so but basically the whole point of the game was
00:10:00
Speaker
I thought Vancouver, quite honestly, could have been the better team across the the full 90 minutes. But when it comes to soccer, when it comes to a final, when you're playing team with, and we've always said it, right? When you have guys that,
00:10:18
Speaker
have magic the way that Messi does and Jordi Alba do. And, you know, these players that are older and they did look tired. There was a moment in the second half when Vancouver equalizes.
00:10:32
Speaker
ah They do it with a phenomenal goal. It's a beautiful buildup, right? And Savi finds Brian White. Brian White with phenomenal just understanding of where he's at, hold up play, the visions to see Aliyah Matt making that run. passes it beautifully, and then Ahmed just takes a great shot. it beats ah Rios Novo. And that just kind of felt like here is the momentum shifter of this game. Here is that Vancouver Whitecaps team that we've seen all season.
00:11:04
Speaker
grind it out and find ways to to win the game. And it wasn't just them holding possession, but that sort of moment, that sort of buildup just creates that fire. And then not too long after that is when you have that three time Post that that that happens, right? It's the shot from Savi. He hits the the the left post ah of a novel. Then he crosses to the right side. Then he comes off. Then Falcone tries to get it out, takes a bad touch. And there is Savi one more time hitting it. And he hits the side of the post. I mean, it was three posts
Messi's Impact and Team Building Strategies
00:11:41
Speaker
in that one opportunity that that they had. and
00:11:46
Speaker
It just wasn't going in and when you have this sort of team with those sort of magicians those sort of moments even when they look tired even when you might seem like they're not in the game It's one passes one moment and the fact that it was in dress cubas who?
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah loses that ball to leonel messi That's when you know it was over like how many mistakes has under scuba's made all season I can't think of many I can't even think of one necessarily right now and he made that On Lionel Messi pressure Like it was It's not a Messi Messi does a lot of great things It's not the master of the high press Exactly But pressing is not one of them And the fact that he loses that ball And allows Messi to have a moment In a vulnerable position DePaul makes that right run And it's over after it DePaul does a great job of being composed Beating Takaoka But
00:12:38
Speaker
That's what it was. It was a game decided by a couple of moments, a couple of mistakes in the team that took more advantage of it. Then the three one, we don't have to get into it. I mean, it's literally Vancouver just chasing the game, trying to get that equalizer, that two two equalizer. And don't get me wrong. It was a beautiful play as well.
00:13:00
Speaker
Jordi Alba, ball over the top, finds Messi. Messi controls it with his chest without letting it hit the ground, just rainbows over the defender. And Agende does a great job at heading it down, keeping it in front of him. And then Agende, who scores nine goals in the playoffs, setting a record. That's the sort of season that Miami had to have to win it.
00:13:25
Speaker
And so if anybody wants to say, look, it's all about they're showing you exactly how a franchise should be built and how they get a title. It wasn't easy and it had not been easy for this team. Messi's been in the league two and a half years, three seasons kind of. And this is the first time that he actually gets MLS Cup, ah which is obviously the biggest title for this team. But but it was well-deserved. And again, I do want to give my Toronto point.
00:13:52
Speaker
do credit. He doesn't do a lot and and he admits it. you know He talks about, he talks to the players and he allows the players to play the game and those players are the ones that make the difference. But there are things that Maturano was able to dial and move and I think when he brought Bright in was important. When he brought Segovia in was important. And I thought that although Jasper Shortsman had been so good, so good all season, I thought he was late on bringing Jaden Nelson in. He should have not been coming in that late into a game.
00:14:23
Speaker
I thought he was going to come in a lot earlier. And I know the team was playing well. So sometimes if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You don't want to make too many changes when the team has the right Tempo, but i thought that one was a little bit late. I think it's Kenji Cabrera. I thought Kenji could have came in a little bit earlier, but that's the way it goes. Miami gets the title and it's well-deserved.
00:14:42
Speaker
what about ah What did you think of Sorensen taking off Ali Ahmed when he brought on Ryan Gould? Because understand you you want to use Ryan Gould in this situation. You want to give him enough minutes to make an impact. That's not who I would have taken off. I think that's the one thing you can question. Ali Ahmed was balling all season. He scored the one goal that Vancouver did score in this game. And I felt like Vancouver never kind of reached the the level again after Ali Ahmed came off that they that they were at when he was on the field. What did you think of that?
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I know that you want to keep your big name on the field. And I know that Thomas Mueller has been such a key guy, but he wasn't very influential. I can't remember maybe two opportunities, including one header that wasn't necessarily put with a lot of pace that he created. But aside from that, I thought if you were going to take a player,
00:15:40
Speaker
It should have been Thomas Mueller and, you know, would have put Gall right behind the nine. him and White have a really good relationship, of course. And you would have kept a guy like I met that if you wanted to take out, that's when you bring Jaden Nelson because he has that speed. He could stretch that side out. And maybe there wasn't enough opportunities taken to one for Salvetti to do more defending and two do more to make Ian Frey uncomfortable all game. And and I just feel like you didn't really expose that. So I would agree with your take on that. Yeah.
00:16:13
Speaker
ah All right. Let's talk about the broader implications of an inter-Miami MLS Cup victory as it relates to the league, but then also the Seattle Sounders, because there's been some discourse going around on that. ah But,
Strategic Success: Building Around Messi
00:16:25
Speaker
ah you know, Nico, I don't think it's ah any secret that Relations between the Seattle Sounders and Inter Miami were strained following the ah the League's Cup final. There was a lot of back and forth.
00:16:39
Speaker
There was a lot of chirping, including a on our end here at Lobbing Scorchers. If you watch our postgame content, you know that. but i'm gonna ah ah you You mentioned a couple of these points, but I'm going to reiterate.
00:16:51
Speaker
and before we Before we talk about that discourse, I'm going to give Inter-Miami their due in the respects that I think they they deserve to be given their due. Because i think we do we do talk about them sometimes like it's just it's this ah it's this kind of cynical we're just gonna we're just gonna buy trophies we're gonna buy everything and it's just all about the Barca boys, and we don't have to do any of the kind of real work to to make.
00:17:22
Speaker
a club like ah like some of the other clubs have done it. But I will say a few things in credit of InterMiami. Number one, i make fun of the ah the term ambition a lot because i think the way it gets used is is pretty silly sometimes. And I'm going to continue to ah to clown on ah on anyone who uses the term ambition in a way that's like, you know,
00:17:45
Speaker
Seattle trading for Jesus Ferreira is unambitious and know all that stuff is still silly but I will say when we're talking about literally going out and getting Lionel Messi the greatest player of all time pretty indisputably at this point ah that is that is ambitious to to leverage your fact that David Beckham is in your ownership group and he has that connection to be able to actually get him to the league and get him to the club Not any club can do that. You got to have you got to have the ownership appeal, which they had with David Beckham. And then you got to have a club that a guy like Messi agrees to go to. And they did that. And ah they would have been stupid to not do that. Anytime you have a chance to get Lionel Messi on your team as an MLS club.
00:18:33
Speaker
you ah You got to do that. And then, you know, we saw the ripple effects that they got from that. It wasn't just the Barca boys coming over. It was a lot of these like big shot South American prospects like Diego Gomez, who they sold for one of the biggest bags that an MLS team has ever sold anyone for. So ah they they got all the benefits, even more so outside of just Messi than I think you even would have expected them.
00:18:58
Speaker
to get like the The ripple effects of it were more pronounced than i even thought, and it was ambitious of them to go out and get that done. And then I also do think, to what I was saying earlier, i think they've built around him. They've done more of the actual work of team building around him, probably more than we've given credence to. ah Yeah, they have they have messy in the Barca boys, but a lot of their key contributors ah are I mean you got Yannick Bright who's a huge player for them that was a super draft pick that they cooked on who plays kind of that like Christian rolled on Obed Vargas type of role for them. That was that was a Tata Martino guy, too. He's the one. Tata Martino, yeah. Yannick Bright is an example of someone who's not just like buying a player that they came in or that they got and became an actual contributor ah contributor for them. And then I'm thinking about their academy program, too, which is it's pretty good. It's not like the best in the league, but they are one of the teams that actually has academy players. Yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
that have come up and been impact players for their first team. And they laid the groundwork for that before Messi even got there. I'm thinking of guys like Noah Allen and Ian Frey. Those guys are homegrowns that they brought up in the same same way that Seattle has done with a lot of their academy kids that have been brought up to the first team. They hit on those guys. And those guys those those guys start games for them week in, week out. Noah Allen's a big-time contributor for them. Ian Frey did his ACL a couple times, but he had bounce-back year. Uh, and that's why, ah you know, sometimes we talk about it like when messy leaves, they're just chalked and it's over and they're going to go back to being a bottom feeder, wooden spoon. type I'm not so sure that that's true because they have a good youth development system. And then, uh,
00:20:42
Speaker
with the With all these South American prospects, elite South American prospects that have been willing to go to Inter-Miami to play with Messi, when Messi leaves, maybe you don't get as many of them who who want to come there. But like you you've created a foundation, theoretically, and ah and a culture and a winning environment where players like that might even still want to come to Inter-Miami even after Messi leaves. And that's that's a credit to what they built since he's got there. also i think Mascherano, like you said, he had to do some actual, we we finally saw what would happen if he had to do some actual coaching. He yeah he got some curveballs thrown at him. And i think he handled it well in the playoffs. We talked about the Silvetti adjustment, benching Suarez, all that. I don't think those are... ah
00:21:30
Speaker
You don't have to be a genius to do the stuff that he was doing and give Silvetti a chance and and stick with it even after Suarez was able to come back. But, you know, he did do it and he reaped the benefits of it. And that was that's that's like a better job of actual coaching than I think. a lot of us expected him to be able to do. There was a perception that, uh, he was just, you know, messy's boy. And that's why he got the job. That might well be true, but he showed more coaching acumen in the playoffs than than I thought he had. So, uh, I'll give him credit for that. And, uh, now that they've won MLS cup,
00:22:08
Speaker
I'm not, I don't know if it like fully validates their whole project, like people are saying, but they certainly, they certainly had to get at least one of these for, ah for the messy era to be considered a success. And, ah and now they have that. So you got to give all that to them.
00:22:25
Speaker
ah But now, Nico, let's talk about some of the other discourse. I gave them their credit. I gave them their due. Like, I don't say any of that saltily. Like, that's – they earned the trophy that they've got, and they built a team that – they play incredible footy as well at times. Like, when they're really firing, like, it looks like a team that's got a bunch of the guys from the early 2010s Barcelona teams that were some of, if not the best players,
00:22:52
Speaker
soccer teams that have, ah have ever played. So you got to give them a all of that. ah But Nico, I will say one thing about this inner Miami team, ah which is that earlier this year,
00:23:07
Speaker
they had They had to go to Seattle, famously, fora for the League's Cup final.
Seattle Sounders vs. Inter-Miami Rivalry
00:23:13
Speaker
And how did that go for them? I mean, I don't need them real well i don't need to tell i ah tell you all how that went. We all saw how that went. And yeah we we had our fun with it. We posted on our IG and our TikTok a little ah little banner of the 3-0 saying that there was there's one team that Messi and the Barbs boys couldn't stop, that they they couldn't beat when it counted, and that's the Seattle Sounders. And Nico, God, what?
00:23:40
Speaker
The cope coming from the from the comments section on those posts was it was so delicious. It's unbelievable. Let's go through a few of these talking points ah that ah that we got in response to... Well, so it's from InterMiami fans, but it's also from just like the specific Messi fans, which I think is bizarre. course.
00:23:58
Speaker
The Messi bots. Those are Messi bots. So we got a lot of the Messi bots. And the... the The mental gymnastics and level of cope that was going on with the messy bots and some contingent of the inner Miami fan base was honestly hilarious. ah But here's here's a few of the ones that we got. I'm not going to read the exact comments, but I'm going to paraphrase essentially what they were arguing. ah I thought it was funny how many comments we got that ah to the effect of like, well, Seattle might have won the league's cup final, but inner Miami won a regular season game at home against Seattle two weeks later.
00:24:36
Speaker
So, ha how about that? gas that Like, we we gotta be we got to be serious about something if you're pulling that card. And I will just tell you, I don't know if there's any InterMiami fans or messy bots watching this, but I can i can promise you all, no one in Seattle gives a fuck.
00:24:56
Speaker
about a regular season game two weeks after they clowned on your team in a cup final in front of their home fans. And let's be clear about something else.
00:25:07
Speaker
Inter-Miami didn't just lose the league's cup final. They didn't just lose that game. If they had just lost that game, if they had gotten... three owed and then dapped everyone up and said GGs and walked off the field. That would have been one thing. It still would have been a bad and embarrassing L, but that would have been one thing, but that's not what happened.
00:25:25
Speaker
It's not what happened. What happened was your team, crashed out on the field and started an insane brawl in which they spit on security gene.
00:25:36
Speaker
Okay? That's what happened. You embarrassed yourselves and humiliated yourselves to the highest order in front of everybody. Everyone saw it. So... I'm not going to have there be like revisionist history on this where you try, let people try and turn it around and talk about a regular season game. No one that no one cares about two weeks later. And they're like, no, you, you didn't just lose to Seattle. You were not only not up for coming to Seattle for a cup final. Yeah.
00:26:07
Speaker
You humiliated and embarrassed yourselves on a stage that would on on a massive stage. all ah All the messy bots were watching that game and they saw what happened. The entire inner Miami fan base was watching that game. They saw what happened. They traveled like 1500 people out to the game from inner Miami so they could watch their team get three O'd crash out and spit on security gene.
00:26:28
Speaker
That's laughable. That's embarrassing. Like, the fact that the Seattle Sounders inflicted that on that team with the players they have on that team and the narrative surrounding that team, that is one of the greatest victories, not just in Seattle Sounders club history, but that any MLS club has ever pulled off when you take into account the team that they were playing against that had ah the greatest of all time on it. And a regular season game two weeks later doesn't detract from that. In fact, like the fact that,
00:27:01
Speaker
we could sit here in Seattle and watch that game and not have to care about that game at all is a testament to what type of victory it, ah it really was. ah So that brings me to the, to the second point, Nico. Well, i guess, first of all, ah do you have any response or thoughts on the take that inter Miami settled the score by winning the regular season game a couple of weeks after the league's cup final?
00:27:25
Speaker
ah No, I think that there's nothing that I could add to that. at all um I think in the greater sense of everything that you kind of ranted on there, and I agree with a lot of it is that it took a team with every resource, every amount of money possible shoved into this team.
00:27:51
Speaker
a a a caliber head coach like Tata Martino to come in flame out, My turn to come in and just let the boys play, bringing in the most talented players in in South America, young prospects, and everything that they did this year to get this cup. And it took them, you know, three seasons to yeah get this MLS Cup. um And when you compare that to a Sounders team that –
00:28:23
Speaker
Exposed them here at home with a much, much more money-friendly roster put together and and clearly a a collective of of players that are not even close to the... They got bammed on by Paul Rothrock and Osaze de Rosario.
00:28:43
Speaker
What are we talking about? Correct. I mean, just the comparison and the trajectory and the amount of headlines that this team puts out compared to Inter-Miami are not even close. And and soccer won in that instance. Passion and in the reality ah of having a club that has meant something for so many years. That's kind of what I would focus on in comparison to a team like Inter-Miami that You know what? they they They have everything easy. Everything comes easy when you have Messi and you have the Moss Brothers money and you have Beckham recruiting and you have Busquets and Jordy and you can do whatever you want. Every year you could beat the roster, change it up, and not everybody has that luxury and yet it's taking you this long to do something. I mean, if we go back all the way to the start of Inter-Miami, I mean, they've always had the resources. They've always had the money. so
00:29:38
Speaker
it is what it is. Kenny getting the super tret super tret super chat train rolling. Appreciate you, Kenny. It says, thanks for the offseason content. Fun fact, eight of the last 11 MLS Cups have included Cascadia teams. The other three were l LA teams being Pacific Northwest runs shit. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know that stat. I know there's been a lot of ah a lot of seattle Seattle finals, obviously, in Portland. ah they made They won the one in 2015, lost the one famously to NYCFC in 2021. Then you have the Whitecaps this year. So, yeah, that is... ah
00:30:15
Speaker
I think that is eight. So PNW definitely still runs shit. Thanks for the ah super chat, Kenny. Yeah, great comment. All right. the ah this This was a really funny one that we got we got. We got so much more of this comment than I was expecting. I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. but We got so much more of this. You would think that the Messi bots...
00:30:37
Speaker
would have more self-respect than to ah than to say something this embarrassing and empathetic. But here we here we here we have it. Nico, I've been i've been told um been told that the only reason that Inter-Miami lost the League's Cup Final in Seattle, the only reason, it wasn't it wasn't because they got bossed on by Christian Roldan, Obed Vargas, Paul Rothrock, and Osaze de Rosario.
00:31:00
Speaker
got absolutely played off the field. that wasn't That wasn't why. That wasn't why. The reason that Inter-Miami lost that match as badly as they did to the point where they had spit-fueled crash out on the field and started an insane brawl is because the game was played on artificial turf.
00:31:18
Speaker
That's a wild take. We have so many... bots and in your Miami fans, uh, in our comments right now, who they're literally, they're saying that, uh, if that game, ah if that game had been played on grass,
00:31:35
Speaker
Messi would have won easily, which is well one of the saddest, most embarrassing pieces of cope I've ever witnessed.
Fan Reactions to Inter-Miami's Loss
00:31:44
Speaker
It's mind-blowing that they're actually arguing. And they're they're like serious too. there was there was I saw the first few of them and I was like, this has got to be a bit. There's no way.
00:31:54
Speaker
There's no way they're doing this right now. And it's not, but it's like a big thing. It's a big thing. They got a lot of ah fellow bots to like their comments on ah on the... On the turf thing, which, and the regular season victory thing. They're flexing on a regular season victory and then blaming it on the turf, which I just, I just got to say, like, I'm, I'm not like a massive turf apologist. I do think like a lot of the discourse around it gets overblown. You know, I would rather the, ah the Sounders play on grass, but like, i don't know, Nico. It's, it's just like, it's so overblown overblown.
00:32:34
Speaker
more More than that, though, more than that, like, do do not do people not see ah the comedy behind, like, the the player in question that we're talking about in this situation is the literal greatest of all time, the GOAT, the number one best.
00:32:51
Speaker
You're telling me ah all it takes to stop your GOAT is he he plays on turf, and that's it? He's just neutralized? He can't win? That's that's that's all it takes?
00:33:03
Speaker
Like, come on, man. If he's the GOAT, which I think he is the GOAT, he is the GOAT. If he's the GOAT, a little bit of turf should not be the thing that makes his team get its ass beat so badly in a cup final.
00:33:16
Speaker
Like, I don't know. What do you think of the turf discourse? No, think it's definitely a a coping thing. It's a very South American thing to just blame the the Yanks for not having proper stadiums. But as someone that you know has watched the game as long as I have, there are fields and Colombia, sometimes in even Argentina, that the grass is so beat up and it just shitty that it it creates for even more of or worse plain circumstances than anything that has to do with artificial. Sometimes the rain gets so bad that it's it's dangerous to play on grass as well. So it's... ah
00:34:02
Speaker
It's a circumstance as part of it is definitely a ridiculous allegation to make. I think Messi himself would discredit that must immediately. be like, come on, man. god If he knew that people were making that excuse for him losing that game.
00:34:17
Speaker
like yeah you don't need you don't even He's won enough trophies where you don't even need to do that. like That's crazy. If anything, I think the Inter-Miami fans should be um grateful and they should be thanking the Sounders and their fan base for creating that moment that, in my opinion, really ignited a fire in Lionel Messi. He had already been vocal about his team having to do more back in May when under Miami had a lot of issues. He vocally said the team needs to do more, yada, yada, yada.
00:34:51
Speaker
But this game... at home losing a final and just sitting there chirping at Obed, chirping at Pedro de la Vega, just watching, contemplating the Sounders, you know, putting those medals around her neck and lifting that Leeds Cup title. I think it did something to him. And and I think him, Busquets and Jordi Ava, who shortly thereafter,
00:35:20
Speaker
publicly came out and said that we're going to retire. mean, the Sounders retired both of these guys after that happened. And it all kind of built this thing where they went on a run. i mean, in the playoffs, in Miami was baller. To close the season, they were better. And there to i do find that to be not a coincidence. that that that that The way that happened, the threat of events,
00:35:49
Speaker
it all points out to little messy salad and he's like, ah I got to do more. And now they get a title. So you're welcome. Inter Miami fans. I love that. I love that spin on it. Inter Miami won MLS cup because they got clowned on so hard by Seattle in the league's cup final that it lit a fire under Lionel Messi motivated him. And they really, ah i mean, in the playoffs, they, they looked like a A sort of different level of the team that they have been and ah you know, maybe that that has something to do with it. Nico let's talk about what if any implications this has on Seattle or just there's the status in the league or just the general league hierarchy, I guess because.
Comparing Inter-Miami and Seattle Sounders' Legacy
00:36:31
Speaker
uh i was thinking about it in kind of the only respect with which i care that much whether or not uh inter miami wins wins mls cup or not is as it relates to like bragging rights i guess who get who gets to kind of lay claim to uh running the league or being the uh the better club that's that's part of the fun of all this is having those bragging rights and getting the lord things over other fan bases and when a team like inter miami wins a trophy like this they have bragging rights they get to lord it over other over other fan bases to an extent just like seattle gets to lord their success over other fan bases so i was thinking of it from a perspective of uh does this does inter miami finally winning mls cup does this give them anything to lord over seattle uh and the conclusion that i came to is no it it doesn't seattle is the one team that inter miami
00:37:26
Speaker
still can't say anything to because they don't have the trophy hall that Seattle does. And, you know, that's partially because they've Seattle has been around longer, but still that's what, that's what the creates the dynamic of like, who's really like, who's really chasing Who in this situation like inner Miami are still a lot newer to the league.
00:37:49
Speaker
So let's be serious inner Miami is still ah chasing Seattle in this situation. And there was so much talk to when Messi got to the league of, ah you know, the goat coming to the league, he's going to tear up the league, he's going to destroy the league. And that's really like you said, that's really not what happened. It took him three years to win this MLS Cup. They got bounced in the playoffs by Brad Guzan last year. They got slammed on in the League's Cup final.
00:38:19
Speaker
So it's not like they've won every trophy available to them. They they won MLS Cup this year and they get credit for that. ah But they have not dominated to the extent that everyone said they would. I was told that they were going to win every every single game by six goals and win every single trophy. And I think that what's been shown is that it's he's been given way more of a run for his money.
00:38:44
Speaker
than people thought like he just now in his third year finally won the league uh so i don't think that narrative carries much weight either but inter miami i don't think i don't think they can tell seattle anything at all because like i said seattle's got the trophy hall and then when it really really came down to it and inter miami had to come to seattle and try and win a cup final, which is one of the more difficult tasks an MLS club can be asked of or asked to do is go to Seattle and win a cup final.
00:39:16
Speaker
They couldn't do it. They didn't even get close. They got smoked on. They got smoked on and clowned on so hard that they crashed out and spin on security gene. So, ah if anything, I think that Inter-Miami winning MLS Cup, it kind of paints Seattle's League Cup win in like an even in an even better light, to be honest with you, because that was a team that ran through the whole playoffs and looked great doing it, won MLS Cup 3-1. When the chips were on the table between these two clubs in a cup final and they had to come to Seattle and win a game, they didn't even get close, man.
00:39:49
Speaker
i was like I was like not even... threatened man like it was a close game until at the very end i guess but as soon as Osase scored it kind of just felt like these guys aren't there they don't want this this smoke they're not ready for this and they weren't and Seattle can lord that over inter Miami until further notice as far as I'm concerned the only way they can ever redeem that with the ah with the L in the crash out is if there's another cup final between these two teams in Seattle and inter Miami comes in and wins it until then
00:40:22
Speaker
they're little bro still, as far as I'm concerned. And winning one MLS cup doesn't change that. So you got any thoughts on, ah on that aspect of it, Nico? ah Yeah, man. I mean, look, same thing as you pointed the scoreboard, you could point at the trophy case and there's literally nothing that inner Miami can say that would, in my opinion, make you feel like they're any less of a club than inner Miami as of now.
00:40:48
Speaker
Clearly that could change. If anything, that, I would put in relationship to what the Sounders,
00:40:59
Speaker
the way it could affect the Sounders is maybe just understanding that there's clearly a need to inject more capita into their roster. And and ah later, as we move along from other contracts, they're going to have to understand that the league has changed, has grown. And as much as it's,
00:41:24
Speaker
Phenomenal that you have a an academy and a baseline and you want to create product domestically. There is a need to, you know, up that that sort of acquisitions moving forward. Right. So this team has done great talking about the Sounders with.
00:41:42
Speaker
the limitations that they've had and they've ah earned it because they are a team that focuses on their m MO, their mythology of the game. They're they're a winning club. They've put together rosters to get the titles that they've had, but league is changing and you're going to have to add to what you have. I'm not saying blow it up and change it completely. I'm not saying become LAFC. I think the opposite actually, and I'll touch that point there here in a second, but I do feel like,
00:42:13
Speaker
if this championship and and the way 2025 went should do for the Sounders is not create complacency saying, look, look how far we got, look look what we were able to do by winning the Lynx Cup. It should be, look, we could win Lynx Cup and ah go even further by adding a couple more components down the line. Not that is everything, but that you are gonna have to compete money-wise.
00:42:40
Speaker
And on the same sense, I do hope that What we saw out of Inner Miami Doesn't create A A trend To eliminate The possibility for Domestic talent to be Used and Get playtime I've said ah bunch of times that In Mexico, for as long as I can remember, there has been a narrative, a discourse that the league has affected the poor quality of the national team because the league would rather get foreign talent and and get guys that are even past their prime to come in from other leagues than rather than display that the young talent and that pipeline from being a great U-17 player, U-15 player, U-20 player, isn't quite there through the league because there are so many spots being taken by this outside talent. And when we look at Inter-Miami, I mean, eight players are clearly...
00:43:50
Speaker
from out of the league, right? And then the two that come in right after, Segovia and Cello, same thing. Bright's the one that comes in, and he is one of the local talents, one of that academy products, one of the guys that is a homegrown player. But I hope this that doesn't create a trend. Superdraft, right?
00:44:11
Speaker
What is it? Nonic Bright was Superdraft, not homegrown. Super draft, but I'm just being locally. I mean, that it's not necessarily something that you go out there and get, right? Because that's what I i kind of heard from people. Like, oh look, they have like six Argentines and they got two guys from Spain. And, you know, that that's the way the league should do it. and And that's not the case, right? I mean, there's a thousand ways to get a title. And yes, they did it one way. But look at Vancouver. They they didn't necessarily do it with everything put into just
00:44:45
Speaker
The money aspect of it that there's There's a lot of different components there for vancouver So i just hope it doesn't create a bad trend In that regard We got a we got a couple of ah Miami fans in chat that's fine that's fine Y'all are welcome to ah To hang out and dish the Dish the counterpoints Inner miami has been a club for five years What are you on about this channel is cope Exactly though that's that's the point That's that's when when when we're talking About the discussion of who is chasing Who Seattle has been around longer and had more opportunities to win trophies. Yeah, that's true.
00:45:22
Speaker
But until inter Miami has like been in the league enough time to carve out a legacy like that, they
Sustainability of Inter-Miami's Success Post-Messi
00:45:29
Speaker
don't have one. And one MLS cup doesn't change that. You're going to to rack a lot of trophies to, ah to catch up. That's the, that's just the reality. And the other reality is that ah once again, like when your guys' his team had to come to Seattle in a cup final and get the job done, they weren't even close, man.
00:45:50
Speaker
They were not ready for the smoke. They were not on the level. They got played off the absolute field to the point where they crashed out like little crash out cry baby losers and spit on security gene.
00:46:02
Speaker
All right. That's just what happened. Everyone saw it. It embarrassed and humiliated your whole team and your whole organization. And that was the funniest goddamn thing I've ever seen um in my life. And guess what? Real quick, Nico.
00:46:14
Speaker
The fact that when Lionel Messi thinks about the city of Seattle and thinks about the city of Lumen or the stadium Lumen Field, when those come When those two things come into his head, the image that's seared into his brain is he and his boys standing there and watching while the Seattle Sounders lifted a trophy on their home field in front of seventy k That's his memory of Seattle. It's not coming in and getting getting a win and taking the trophy for himself.
00:46:44
Speaker
It's getting smoked on so badly That his boy spit on security gene and then they had to sit there and watch seattle lift the trophy like there's nothing that can from my perspective there's nothing that can ah can top that in all of them I mean sergio busquets and jordy alba the same sergio busquets face puncher boy punched obed vargas that's That's what happened to him when he had to come try and play in Seattle. We saw we saw what happened. ah Wade, member for seven months. Appreciate you, Wade, as always. It was funny listening to the broadcasters saying Miami has been waiting a long time for this moment. Give me a break. ah
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah, i did someone was saying that they also were talking about how the MLS Cup tied off Messi's legacy, which I agree. He wasn't really the GOAT until he won MLS Cup. uh max thank you for the two appreciate you man suarez is still permanently banned from public suarez never came back from uh from the spit boy incident little spit boy was on the bench for all the playoffs like yeah the other two barca boys other than messi retiring why is that why is suarez not retiring he functionally already is retired so he's he's going to uruguay uh he's not gonna resign with with miami he's gonna essentially retiring nacional is uh what i've heard he's gonna play next to our good old friend uh lodero
00:48:09
Speaker
oh man i think the world cup can top that yeah he won the world cup and he couldn't win in seattle that's why it's funny like do you that's why That's why it's funny is because he's the GOAT and he won the World Cup. And then when he had to play against Osaze de Rosario, Paul Rothrock, Christian Roldan, and Obed Vargas, he got absolutely rolled and his whole team embarrassed and humiliated themselves, yeah which was awesome. What I would tell in Miami fans is enjoy it, but remember that it's about...
00:48:39
Speaker
Creating a a sustainable product. And we see we'll still have to see how that happens once Messi is out of the picture, right? ah We all have seen what happened to Atlanta with an early title.
00:48:54
Speaker
is This is relatively early for Miami. Maybe not as early, clearly. But can they sustain it? Can they continue to be this team? Because if Atlanta has shown you anything, it's that money don't buy championships.
00:49:07
Speaker
Legacies do, culture does, and it's still to be determined whether any Miami has it or not. Simple as that. ah All right, Nico, I think that's a about enough and MLS Cup reaction. Do you want to talk about the Seattle Sounders a little bit? I don't know how much there is going on in Seattle Sounders land right now, but ah let's ah let's just let's just get into
Seattle Sounders' U22 Recruitment and Player Development
00:49:28
Speaker
that. um you know As it much fun as it is going back and forth with ah with these Inter-Miami fans, we are a Seattle Sounders podcast.
00:49:37
Speaker
Uh, let's, let's start with this from ah chat and then we'll, uh, we'll talk about Danny Leiva to Nico's point regarding Liga Mech is not taking as much advantage of their domestic pipelines. Could the Sounders invest more effort to scouting these underage players at 18 to 20 and take a chance on you 22 prospects. Nico, what do you think?
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah, of course. that i mean, that's all part of the game. That's what I'm saying. You don't, completely go off of what has proven to be an equation for success. You just add to it. And that is one of the things that it's easy to do because you do have such a phenomenal, clear-cut experience.
00:50:19
Speaker
way to look at your academy all the way down to the youngest player of that academy and say, look, um I'm seeing what's coming down the pipeline and we don't have a striker that can essentially come in and become the new Jordan Morris. So let's use that U22 spot to bring in a guy that could essentially take over Jordan Morris and become that franchise striker. Hey, we look we're looking at the pipeline and we don't really see a left winger So let's go out there and get a Pedro de la Vega. But obviously now the question is what happens with Pedro la Vega? If he continues to not be healthy, then we need to go out there and get another one. As far as I know, both of those positions aren't there when it comes to the pipeline of great players. Center midfielders, we've seen them come and go. Center backs, we've seen them come and go. I think that there's a good line of players that are going to come in and have the opportunity, like Stu Hawkins, to become that...
00:51:17
Speaker
center back of the future. And, you know, a guy like Burnell, who clearly has all the tools to become a guy that is going to be the guy. um So that's where those U-22 goes is those spots have to be used to maximize and find those those gems that are hitting in South America to uplift your team. And you're already doing such a good job at utilizing the resources homegrowns and the Tacoma Defiance and everything that the Sounders do to have this baseline of players that have clearly...
00:51:53
Speaker
worked, right? You look at this team and you see the Kosariensis and you see the poor Rothrocks that came in and went. you know I wish Danny Leyva was going to stay, but he's not. you know So you have all these players that you have been able to add through those other resources that when it comes to the u twenty two you should be maximizing that. You should be swinging for the fences, if you will, because at the time you don't have a very good record, right? Because your U22 was Leo Chu and that was a bust. Your other U22 spots that you've been able to bring on have been used by academy players, and that's all good and well. But can you go out there and put your club in a position to be elite? Because you do find that next Silvetti, because you do find a Pedro Vitae. And you can also, I know that the Sounders are not a... sell on team but can you create that can you be a team that creates some sustainability where you go buy Pedro Vita for 2.5 and then you sell them to Pumas for two three times that so those are the things that I feel like you're right like the comment that Sanders should be using those U22s to add on to what they already have
00:53:10
Speaker
Yeah, they do they knew need to make better use of that mechanism. Like you said, the only ah the only one we really have to go off of right now is Leo Chu, and that was that was a bust. That did not hit. He never became like a move-the-needle impact player. And...
00:53:32
Speaker
those Those slots, they're really hard to hit on. We've talked about that. like The hit rate is inherently lower. They're even more dart throws than usual signings outside the league. But teams have shown teams have shown at this point that it can be done. Honestly, Inter-Miami fans, you know I was just ah We were just going back and forth, talking some trash, talking some smack.
00:53:56
Speaker
All right. The what they've done with ah with the U-22s and the just the young prospects and young players in general that they've that they brought in. I don't know if Seattle can follow ah that exact blueprint because a lot of the way they were able to do that was like the allure of playing with Messi, I think. But the point is those oh that's yes a lot of it but yeah but those types of players are out there. It's not like, it's like this needle in a haystack type of thing where you just have to really dig deep to find an inner Miami has found like five of these guys, you know, and they've done, ah they've done a really good job at that outside of what they did with the Barca boys. And, uh,
00:54:33
Speaker
That's something that we're going to have to see from Seattle. you know If Craig Wives wants to hold on to that spot with the notion of like we're waiting for the right target or whatever, okay, that's fine. But eventually you got to do it, and it's got to be a hit. It's got to be someone who can be a real, actual impact player for the team, like Craig himself has talked about, and not just like ah a role player or a rotational bit player. So we'll ah we'll see if he can do it. Yeah, and I do want to clarify something because i know that the narrative is consistently about just Craig Weibel. And then the other part of it is, well, you know, this team just doesn't ah scout in the right places. that That is completely wrong. And I've said this in other shows. I don't think I've said it here. But the scouting system... has been the same. it it has improved because of database. There's still boots on the ground. And as long as one Henderson continues to be part of this club, you should all feel at ease that the scouting isn't the right hands. Sean Henderson is a brilliant, brilliant man. i wouldn't even mind. He would probably not want this because he's just...
00:55:43
Speaker
He likes to be behind the scenes, but I would feel comfortable handing him a GM job, a sporting director job because he is that good at his job. So when you look at all these U-22s, the Silvettis, those have been identified by the Sounders in the past. They just, you're unable to go out there and and and get them ah because you don't have that financial component or the attraction, as you mentioned, to go play with Messi or be coached by Tata or go to Miami. I mean, who doesn't want to go to Miami when you're in South America, right? There just isn't that much marketing when it comes to the Sounders necessarily, but the scouting part of it, it's always been there. They have...
00:56:26
Speaker
um identify all these guys that you're seeing come in. There's even a Colombian striker that had a phenomenal u twenty last season, but the last name of Villarreal, he ended up having a hat trick in his last game with Colombia, and he he's just lights out, just tall, strong, fast. He can – clinical finisher. The Sounders had scouted him, but after the U-20 had All of a sudden, you got Atletico Madrid after him. You have all these huge clubs after
Danny Leyva's Transfer and Career Implications
00:56:59
Speaker
him. And the Saunders, unfortunately, just can't go out there and battle with what they have currently in the budget. So just wanted to clarify that it's about going and getting those players that both meet the need and meet what you have available to go out and bring that guy in.
00:57:16
Speaker
Nico, Danny Leyva. Transferring to Nacoxa, is there any new information on that? Do you know a ah ah transfer fee or what the what the status that has not is? This has not been officially announced yet, but is it your understanding that it's going to be in the near future here?
00:57:34
Speaker
ah Yes, it's all said and done. I had reported that it had been completed and pushed through the line. the second part of it ah now has been completed, which is the medical, physical testing and everything that happens before a ah player is acquired by a club.
00:57:53
Speaker
Those exams pass with flying colors. And it's all said and done for... Danileva to find a residence to see who he wants to to be with him going to Nekaxai and and ah making a whole new life there. Nekaxai is a team that is a fluid concept right now.
00:58:16
Speaker
There's a lot of of of the good players from the Texas last season that are likely leaving. Candido was one of them, ah really liked the striker. He was a guy that sounded directly looking at when he was with Independiente Medellin Ravis.
00:58:31
Speaker
They never brought him in. But he had a really good season with Nekaxa. I think he was purchased first by Cruz Azul. And now he's with Nekaxa. And it sounds like he's going to be going to Kumas, who's very interested in him. They have a new coach.
00:58:48
Speaker
What is his name? The coach for last season was sacked at the end of the of the season. And they just are bringing a new guy. So there's a lot of fluidity. And it's not necessarily a sad roster right now. But I think Danileva is going to be able to come in and be not not just a contributor, but be an important X factor. I think that every skill set that Danileva has and those that he has added when he comes to his range, his ability to cover space, his speed, his defending, his physicality, all those other things aside from him having a phenomenal privileged foot, from being a great set piece taker, from having phenomenal vision, great field awareness, all of the things that make Danny Leyva a very good player are going shine brighter in Liga MX because of the style that you get in Liga MX.
00:59:45
Speaker
Reese, our resident Danny Leyva Stan wants to know, Nico, do you know if we have a buyback clause for Danny Leyva? As far as I know right now, yes. um I have not been able to confirm that. So take it with a grain salt. That's why I haven't reported it. But as far as I know, there is a sell-on clause for him. i have not been able to zero down on the transfer fee.
01:00:08
Speaker
you have like a ballpark?
01:00:11
Speaker
i I do, but I'm afraid to say this because i I don't want to lose any credibility because I haven't been able to add anything on it. The the the most I've been over over a million over a million the most I've risked to say is that is below a million that That is the most I've risked to say is that it's below a million. That's of bad, isn't it?
01:00:29
Speaker
ah I don't know ah because you could see it from two ways, right? You haven't really spent a lot on ah building up a a Danny Leyva. If you were looking into next season and thinking...
01:00:47
Speaker
he's not going to a lot of minutes because we're going to have to keep Ovid that entire season. And we are feeling like, or Brian Schmetzer, let's say, he really likes Snyder Brunel, who Brian constantly brings up and who he really enjoys as a player. then I'm with Schmetzer on that.
01:01:06
Speaker
So if there's an opportunity to give Danieleva play time ah in ah in a gray league, get him a... um get him a raise on his salary and keep on a selling fee, then let's do it. So maybe that transfer even below a million, although it might not sound great, it could be a win for the team. um So I don't think it's terrible. I don't think it's incredibly bad. um
01:01:38
Speaker
I wanted to see Danny Leyva here. i wanted him to see him get a fair shot, a fair opportunity to really go after that job once Obed Vargas left. But with all of the uncertainty that we have of Obed Vargas right now, if the team is really willing to not pay him TAM-type money and they feel like he might leave on a free time,
01:02:06
Speaker
then having to play him every minute of every game to just get everything you can out of him might be the way to go. i don't know. um So, yeah, that's why I don't know how bad, how terrible it it is for him. I do think it's a great opportunity for Danny Leyva. I think he deserves this. He deserves going to go into a place where he's going to be looked at as ah ah as a key player, as a key factor, and p prove it to himself. I'm not saying it's going to happen. I just i think he has all the skill sets. Now, if if there's a culture change and a learning curve, and all of these things that handicap and hinder his opportunities, then, you know, at least he went out there and had that shot. But in terms of the sounders, I don't think it's terrible, to be quite frank.
01:02:49
Speaker
Okay, let let's let's talk about that Obed element, because we were talking about that on one of the last shows. And I do think it's important real quick, though, like the the transfer fee itself is only one element of it. Right. Like you've got his it's his salary also coming off the books, which he was on. He was on a bigger number than I expected. It was like around 350 K if I'm not mistaken. that is correct So do you think like do you think even if the transfer fee is lower, know,
01:03:18
Speaker
That combined with that big of a number coming off the off the books, do you like that amount of roster flexibility that that gives you, even if the transfer fee is not as high as we would have hoped or liked?
01:03:31
Speaker
i mean, yeah. I mean, I like it from where I'm looking at it, right?
01:03:37
Speaker
To me, if if I was certain that Danny Leyva was going have the opportunity to play all the minutes and get in there and be a contributing guy, from the start of the season, then I would tell you you, know, maybe not, but, but from where I stand right now and that reality that it could be that open is going to be here the entire year. And, you know, however that goes and and, and things that are going to come up, I do feel like it's, it's good. I don't feel like it's, it's a bad situation at all.
01:04:08
Speaker
Okay, but so just on the topic, though, of ah this kind of indicating that Obed is going to be on the team in 2026 and preparing for the eventuality of him potentially leaving on a free by, like, playing every minute and squeezing every drop out of it, like you said, know.
Obed Vargas' Potential Departure and Club Strategy
01:04:31
Speaker
Nico I just feel like this whole Idea that he could leave On a free yeah that's a bad situation It's insane and i don't i don't even understand you Like usually in a situation like this ah I try and look at it and be like, well, can I at least see what the logic would be from the opposing perspective? So like in this case, is there actually a reality where Obed leaves on a free and it's not a total disaster? You know, like what's the spin there for how that wouldn't be a disaster? And ah as I understand it with what what you and Jeremiah were talking about is it's like,
01:05:10
Speaker
ah The spin is it's like you've already gotten insane value off this off this player. He made 140 K last year and was a best 11 caliber player. And if you get another year out of him of him helping you compete and contend for trophies, maybe you win another trophy or two with him starting God willing. Then it's like, well, if he leaves on a free, it's a bummer, but you, you maximize pretty much everything else that you could have gotten out of the player. And now he wants to move on with his career and you'll always have the, you'll always be the club that developed him. And it's like not ideal, but that's that.
01:05:44
Speaker
I don't, I don't think I'm buying that. Like if you make $0 and transfer money off this player, you're, there's There's no way you can spin that as a positive credibly, is there?
01:06:02
Speaker
No. ah Beyond what Jeremiah and I got on that you just explained correctly, the only other way that I would see this playing out and and having some reason behind it is this one.
01:06:22
Speaker
And it's not a great one. Hit me with this. If let's say that current value of what you're willing to take for Obed Vargas is $6 to $8 million dollars and there is no guarantee for Craig Weibel, Sean Henderson and everybody looking to replace the caliber of player that overbargues for that amount of money, for whatever reason, the money that you're able to use, how much ownership is willing to invest, reinvest that that money that that could hold you to be like, look, we're not going to get anything out of it at the end. Might as well just let it go. Even if it,
01:07:07
Speaker
Hurt ownership because that's where the money is going to go. Because look, people continue to ask me where the money for the Club World Cup went, where the money from Leagues Cup champion winning that that that that tournament went.
01:07:22
Speaker
I couldn't tell you other than the fact that maybe it's going to obviously other debt that the club has. So if there is some uncertainty of, am I going to be able to have those $8 million dollars to go out there and replace Obed, then what's the point? Then let me just try to figure out how I'm going to be able to add a new player in another fashion. And I'm not so concerned that that he's leaving on a free, but that is an awful mentality. And it still sounds pretty bad.
01:07:52
Speaker
Yeah. When Craig Wibes, when you asked him about this and he said, I view that differently than you do. I'm not going to lie. I was like,
01:08:00
Speaker
What are you trying to say there? What are you trying to say there, Craig Wives? You trying to say... like Basically, the way I read that was he's saying that you all think it's a disaster if he leaves on a free and I don't.
01:08:12
Speaker
But like to me, it's like if you don't view that as a disaster... I i mean, I feel like you should. You should. feel like I'm taking crazy pills a little bit. It feels like... ah It feels like spin that just does doesn't, it's not even close to passing the the smell test, at least the way I see it. I've tried i've tried to like give a measure of benefit of the doubt that there's there's got to be at least something there, but I'm not ah i'm not seeing it. ah see so so So to the point of of this whole thing, I mean, if you're moving all these funds out, let's say the 350 and to rearrange your roster in a way that you can give Obed more money,
01:08:52
Speaker
Then I'm good with it because if at this point There is that match that much. Um from from from Craig Weibel's point to just make these things look nonchalant, then shoot, just resign the guy and just keep him here rather than letting him walk on a free. I mean, at least use him for two, three, four years or or keep him under you. So I don't know. i just I've tried to come up with ways. I've done some long, long division in my head.
01:09:24
Speaker
to try to put myself in the Craig Weibel headspace, and i just haven't been able to do it. There's no way that they can be a better team in 2026 than they were this year if they don't have...
01:09:39
Speaker
Obed Vargas, ah unless they, unless you get a replacement that you're like super confident and super convicted in. But I think that's the tough thing here is you're kind of with some of these decisions you're weighing, like what's best for 2026 against what's best for like the future years beyond that. And that's, you know, that's where the moose discourse comes in, which we don't need to dive into all that here this morning. There'll be plenty more time for me to, ah to ah die on my, uh,
01:10:08
Speaker
On my moose hill this offseason I'm not I am ah I am in the process of weathering the fallout of my ah Least popular take ever with the With the moose take ah I've been getting jumped on that that's fine I'll Yeah that Brian White one really hurt you But but it's okay we we could You know Brian what? Reignite that in January In January, we'll reignite. We'll reignite. But it's ah what I'm saying is it's a similar, it's a similar like, you got balance ah what's best for the now against what's best for the future. Like, yeah yes, like U22 striker,
01:10:46
Speaker
striker Is best for the future But There's like There's not It's not just Moose It's not just Obed It's like you know Paul Rothrock too Like there's There's a lot of these guys That it's like If your goal is to win trophies In 2026 That's a different calculation Than what's gonna help you win trophies In 27 28 and See what I'm saying So like Yeah No it What I will say is that With all this And and thinking Seriously about nick Next year Is that
01:11:18
Speaker
Even with keeping Obed and trying to figure out what's going to happen next, the Sunder are looking very short, very light at that position. and bringing Peter Kixton is it's not going to do it. I really do think that you have to go out there and go find yourself and experience Center midfielder to back you up on this regard because you lose JP you lose Danny Leyva That's two guys that were coming in and being heavy contributors. I mean Danny had over a thousand minutes good minutes so I
01:11:53
Speaker
would hope that the team is looking to move that money to bring in another center midfielder. And that's why I don't know how much more they can really give Ovid. And maybe that's where it all kind of lays down. But ah all I know is that there is no way that Ovid's camp is going to get off from that current line they're on. And they're willing to just roll the dice on it.
01:12:18
Speaker
Where are you at on ah on Snyder B? Because ah it does seem to me that what we're seeing right now, with the especially with Danny Leyva transferring it out, that that should theoretically open the door for more minutes for him. But just because the door is open and doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to get them.
01:12:39
Speaker
I'm in the camp that I think he should get them and I want to see him get them. ah I loved what we saw from him last year. i know it was a small sample size, but ah for me, just like the way he the way he reads the game and the way just kind of his whole disposition. He doesn't seem phased by anything. Yeah.
01:12:59
Speaker
the weight and the pressure of what he was dealing with just breaking into MLS last year, didn't seem to get to him. And so it seems like he's wired the right way. And then he also showed what I thought was an intriguing physical skillset. I'm not saying he's as good as Obed or going to be as good or better than Obed, but I do think there's similarities with the skillsets and that he is a guy who can start taking on that role if he needs to. What do you, what do you think of where things stand with that?
01:13:26
Speaker
Look, i'm I'm very high on ah Snyder Brunel. um I think that there are a lot of similarities when it comes to a guy like Obed, with the exception of Obed was just a better dribbler at that particular time of his career. Yeah.
01:13:48
Speaker
So what he can do with the ball and, you know, can you break lines on the ball and things like that. But when it comes to the division, when he comes to the physicality, that can improve a little bit as well. I remember one ah session where Danny Leyva and him would go at it hard and Danny beat him down. I remember he came across and just laid him out flat to the point that I was like, man, that's that' saying – Stay your lane type of thing. I know that that wasn't a case the case. That's way felt at the time. So I think the Snyder Brunel does have some things to improve on. But I love the field awareness. I love the savviness. He definitely does not lack confidence. And center midfielders need confidence. That composure to put the ball in the back of the net.
01:14:34
Speaker
Look, regardless of whether they were sitters or not sitters, you got to put them away. You got to find your way to come in late into the box and be able to those sort of things. The movement on his goals was fantastic. Yeah.
01:14:45
Speaker
I've said it before in this show, if you pause it on a lot of his play, he is more often than not in the raw in the right side of the ball, which it's a great sign for a player his age. I think Brian has done a good job at making sure he doesn't get too high on his head too. He's mentioned it a couple of times when Snyder got a couple of back-to-back starts and back-to-back um moments with the team where where he was a guy coming in off the bench, the goals that he had. And he's like, okay, well, we got to,
01:15:17
Speaker
let Let's chill. Let's make sure that we don't give him a little bit too much. Right. So with all that said, I think that he is a player that going into next season knows that there's an opportunity.
01:15:29
Speaker
And if he has that mentality to say, this is my shot, this is my chance to prove what I can do. And he can come in faster, stronger, and and just as committed when he comes to that IQ component of the game. Yeah. ah He's going to be a,
01:15:47
Speaker
A real difficult player to deal with. ah Nico, I guess ah last couple things before before we get out of here. Paul Rothrock, any updates there or do you have any feel or predictions on how that's going to happen that have differed from ah where things stood before?
01:16:06
Speaker
Nothing yet. I mean, I've had almost radio silence on my end since our last show. I think I'm going to try a couple of different frequencies and see if I can pick something up.
01:16:20
Speaker
ah But as of right now, there has been no changes. But I stay on my notion and my statement that to me, Paul Rothrock at this point has a foot out the door and he's likely to just, even if that, even if that offer for him is close to what the Sounders are offering him, he's going to end up taking it elsewhere just to prove a point.
01:16:48
Speaker
What do you think of that? Because,
01:16:52
Speaker
we don't i mean We don't know what happened with the negotiations behind the scenes or why he feels... It seems like he feels some type of way about an offer that they that they gave him. or that He feels like they don't value him the way that he should be valued.
01:17:06
Speaker
I think there's an argument to be made that like the his his value being what it is is kind of a mutual situation. Yeah. he's uniquely valuable to the team, team's uniquely valuable to him, and he might not have that same value elsewhere. he might, but we don't really know that. But, like, is he worth more money to Seattle than he would be to another team is a valid question. But ah what do you make what do you make of how...
01:17:34
Speaker
it seems It seems pretty clear that he there's like a he feels disrespected kind of vibe going on here. do you think that that is fair or justified? Do you think the team could have done anything differently to make him not feel that way?
01:17:49
Speaker
I think it's fair and justified from his point of view because the team did so much to gas him up and make him feel like he was...
01:18:02
Speaker
yeah almost a face of franchise it of the way they were framing it, right? He proved it on the field. He was never a guy that you were doubting whether he could do what he does best. And he was clearly a guy that had all the trust by Brian Smetzer. So I understand why he would look at this season and being like, look, this is what I feel like I'm worth.
01:18:24
Speaker
Go back and check the sort of influence and impact that I had. You might not see it on the stat sheet, But people know, Brian knows, so this is what I what i deserve.
01:18:36
Speaker
Now, do I like it for him or would I take that decision if I was to put myself in his shoes? No. And that's simply because of what I think should be a player at his age's priorities, which would be insurance on minutes, insurance that um I'm going to be in a place where the system works, the locker room works, the city works. um As you mentioned, am I worth more to Seattle because of the whole history, because it it feels different? Absolutely.
01:19:18
Speaker
So I think that the the for his For his best interest to continue to build on what's been a couple of great seasons progressively getting better, I would
Paul Rothrock's Contract Negotiations
01:19:35
Speaker
stay.
01:19:35
Speaker
Because you don't know what it's on the other side of the fence. You know, they say that grass is not greener it's not always greener on the other side. That could be a real tough reality at his age to go to a place where Things change.
01:19:52
Speaker
And there's a thousand ways that that happens. You go into a place where a coach is on a longer contract, doesn't have the sort of stability, or the job security that Brian has here, that coach can recruit you. He really wants you. You're there. You play six months in coach gets sacked.
01:20:14
Speaker
And all of of a sudden now you're starting from zero new coach comes in. He doesn't like what you do. He wants to change the system. You're done. Another scenario, you go out there, try to do the things you did here in Seattle, and it doesn't translate. It doesn't translate to the system, doesn't translate to the needs, doesn't translate to the locker room or that coach, and you're sat on the bench and there goes your your career or there goes that season. And you're losing time at this point when it comes to you being Paul Rothbrook. So do I think that that gamble is worth the 150 to 200,000 that is the question mark right now with his ah negotiations? No, I don't. But the problem is, is that now you're beyond the point of
01:20:58
Speaker
Being able to to bring that back because contrary to popular belief, players are all over social media. They're all over a lot of our shows. they They hear the noise, whether it's through us or secondary people that let them know.
01:21:16
Speaker
And these negotiations could rub the his teammates on the wrong way. Okay, man, you were making this. You're asking for that, which is so much more than even Jackson Reagan got. Are you thinking about you and not the team? I mean, there's so many ways that he could have a negative effect that Paul's not done. Paul, is is he's a guy that's all over. he's got He's street smart. He understands how to read situations. And I think he's looking at it being like, look, I'm at the point of no return.
01:21:44
Speaker
So I am going to go ahead and just take an offer elsewhere and continue to gamble on me. I believe in me. I know I'm a dog. I got the dog in me. So I'm going to prove it somewhere else. And if I don't, then, you know, at least I gambled on myself and I could see for everything that I've got to know about Paul Rothrock and the way he handles his business, I could see him being a guy was like, forget it, man. I'm going to go. going to prove myself. And if it doesn't work out, then oh well. I tried it.
01:22:13
Speaker
Kenny says Paul wants more than Yemar. Rejected four-plus offers. I roll. ah Is that true, Nico? Is he asking for... What does Yemar make? is he No, Yemar's in the 900s. Yeah, Yemar makes a little more than the eight that Rothrock is asking for. But point taken from the standpoint of like... I mean, it is... He's asking for more than Jackson Reagan.
01:22:37
Speaker
Jackson Reagan was a best 11. ah He was a guy that... Was in the national team bubble He was up for the defender of the year In MLS Yeah And the thing with Rothrock Specifically is it's like He is such Like a tailor made perfect system fit For Seattle in a way that Like you're kind of saying Like he might not be elsewhere ah When I think about the best That Seattle looked offensively This last year
01:23:09
Speaker
A lot of it was when when the wingers were Paul Rothrock and Jesus Ferreira just doing that demonic high press where they're relentlessly hounding ah hounding the opposition deep in their own territory, winning the ball, getting those dangerous counterattack chances that are like...
01:23:28
Speaker
It's not not even like full counterattacks. Like you're already so far deep in the opposing end that like the chances are just like already there. He and Jesus got so good at that. Is another team going to put him in a system and in a position to really maximize his his skill set in the same way that he did here, which is like a perfect maximization of his skill set. I don't know. That's what he's going to have to ah evaluate for himself. Nashville SC, do they play similar to Seattle? I don't really know. I didn't watch them that much last year, but yeah, I feel like they they don't, they don't. So like that might be a good fit from a culture and vibes perspective, but is it, is it as good of a system fit there as it was here?
01:24:14
Speaker
Like, no, So how much is that going to impact what he's worth to them? So that's the other thing I'm curious to see is if it's, if this whole sticking point over the 200 K between 600 and 800, is that about the actual amount of money that he's making? Or has this really just become about the principle where he feels disrespected and is like, well, you wouldn't, you wouldn't give me eight based on what I'm worth to you. Then I'm going to take six from some somewhere else. and I'm not going to take it.
01:24:42
Speaker
correct that So that feels like it's kind of where this is This is headed, doesn't it? Yep, exactly where it is that's That's where I feel like it's going to go and maybe he gets $20,000, $30,000 more than he's offered here If not the exact same But he's taking it somewhere where He feels like This team doubted me They've been doubted me This is already out and about Everybody knows about my business And that number is going to come out by the, you know, MLS players, you know, at one point. And, you know, am I going to look like the guy that came back with his tail between his legs? No, that that's just not the Paul Rothrock way. I think he's just a guy that's going to go at it. he He's a gambler. Everything about his game is about being a dog and being a gambler and,
01:25:30
Speaker
They don't think but can. I love that about him. I respect it. I do. Absolutely. I do too. I absolutely do too. But I also understand the position from the club where they're saying, look, we're looking at your type of player, your type of profile across the league. You and I did a little exercise with... Nashville, what they're paying, some of their wingers. So, you know, when I think Seattle looks at it, says, look, this is where our line is. And you'll find that if you look across the league, that average number for guy of your profile is pretty bare.
01:26:03
Speaker
So, again, what is fair at the end of the day? is The player's got to be like, this is what I'm about. This what I think I'm worth. it And you got to respect it. I respect it.
01:26:14
Speaker
Yeah.
Seattle's Strategy for Rothrock's Replacement
01:26:15
Speaker
Assuming he does walk, let's just assume he does for a second. Where do you think that leaves Seattle and how how does it affect their offseason? Obviously, you're goingnna have to replace him to to some extent. Do you have any kind of read on it if they're like preparing for that eventuality? They are preparing for that.
01:26:32
Speaker
They are preparing for that. How so? They've been had scouting guys for that specific position, ah but they are without a doubt already – Right now, Anderson and Greg Weibel and Henry and all the guys that do the scouting, they're not waiting to see what's going happen with Paul Rothbard. They're acting as if he's not going to come back.
01:26:58
Speaker
They're not going to just wait in line and and and see what happens. They have to be proactive towards the situation because – If the likelihood is very high, you have to be ready to add at least one more player at that position. We all want to see Georgie. I want to see Georgie. I'm excited for him to have his his chance, get those Paul Rothrock minutes. But with Pedro de la Vega out and Arreola being the guy that still probably has to prove where he's at, although I really like Paul Arreola, I really do.
01:27:28
Speaker
um you have to go out there and get one more guy that that's going to be able to replace what you lost because you lost Ryan Kent, you lost Paul Rothrock. I mean, those are two guys that were getting in a lot of consistent minutes.
01:27:39
Speaker
Can't read Baker White and be a guy that is only a winger? I don't think so. he He can't play there as well, but I do think that there's already there' already moves to go figure out what's going to happen with that left side.
01:27:52
Speaker
Do you think they're going to to MLS free agency for that? Or is this looking outside the window? Yeah, no, I think they're going to... I mean, both are open. um And it feels like there might be... and And this is just with what I'm kind of gathering what I think my educated guess. They probably feel like they can get a winger for what they have available there. Yeah.
01:28:23
Speaker
and I don't want to just put it just on an MLS because both that center midfielder and that winger are being looked at both MLS and out broad. But depending on where that money is, usually your your winger is a lot more expensive out broad because the reality is that that's what you're kind of looking for when you're MLS. So it's probably going to be cheaper to go.
01:28:46
Speaker
winger in MLS and center midfielder abroad.
MLS Player Acquisition Criticism
01:28:51
Speaker
Do you think Christian Espinosa could be one of the guys in that? ah Absolutely not. Why not?
01:28:58
Speaker
There's just not not not ah salary flexibility for it. And I would be surprised if Espinosa...
01:29:07
Speaker
Yep. I don't think Spinoza is really going to take anything below a DP, to be quite frank. And even if he did, that's going to be some high, high TAM money. And with what, I mean, maybe if you decide that, again, you're going to let Ovid walk and all that stuff, then maybe there's room for it. But I just don't see it happening. I really do think that Christian Espinosa can go out there and be a full-on DP somewhere else.
01:29:35
Speaker
he He could, but what if he wants to what if he wants to win games and win trophies?
01:29:42
Speaker
It's always a possibility I don't know that would be my ah pipe dream I agree that I don't think it's particularly Yeah I would love it yeah likely to happen I did think it was funny we we clipped out the video where I was stumping for this And we got some comments ah Which I guess I should have expected But we got a lot of comments that were like Oh man this guy This would be so unambitious If we get a guy from within MLS I just want to say Oh that's crazy I just want to say, like, if if you are if you were one of the people commenting that, you are outing yourself as having not watched Christian Espinoza play a minute of soccer. Christian Espinoza is a baller. Any way you slice it, I would take him on my MLS team any day. You would be absolutely high out of your mind to not take him on your MLS team. And, ah like, just...
01:30:31
Speaker
Especially at a non DP spot. I mean, yeah' true the reason you're saying that the reason you're saying that is literally there's nothing more. There's no more analysis to this. You're saying that because he played on the San Jose earthquakes first. It's the exact same thing with Jesus Ferreira and Albert Rusnak.
01:30:48
Speaker
But like in the case of guys like Rusnak and ah Espinoza, Rusnak came up in the Manchester City Academy and played in the Eredivisie. Christian Espinoza was playing in the Argentine top flight and played for Boca Juniors, which is literally the same club that Nico Ladero was playing for before he came to Seattle. Just pretend the MLS club in between isn't there. Literally, just pretend that there was no MLS era of their career and tell yourself in your own addled mind, we got this guy from Boca Juniors or we got this guy from the Eredivisie. And then all of a sudden, that you can you can have that pedigree that you really want again. But like saying that Espinoza is unambitious or a bad signing because... It's crazy. It's just people that don't understand the game.
01:31:30
Speaker
He doesn't require an international spot. I mean, there's just so many good things to like about Espinosa that it's ludicrous to be like, it's not ambitious. Anybody who uses the word ambitions, nonchalant, I don't really care for it. It's neither here nor there. I think it's just one of those things where it makes me be like, oh, God, i I'm so glad that like fans don't run this team.
01:31:54
Speaker
Myself included, by the way, not just all you guys, but ah a lot of y'all would have this team wooden spooning so fast. like It would be it would make your make all of our collectives head spin.
Fan Opinions vs. Professional Insights
01:32:05
Speaker
And I've said that before. Even to like you know MLS influencers, you know that ah that Will Guy from MLS Moves, he put something out and i ended up commenting on his stuff and i was like...
01:32:17
Speaker
Really? I'm glad you're not a GM, man. because Oh, my God. You know, it just it just doesn't happen. And I've got respect for Will. He does ah a good job putting a lot of content out. But a lot of his takes a lot of times are hyperbolic or they're way off. But it's normal because he's not, you know, he doesn't have the insight. You know, it's it's normal. So I don't like...
01:32:37
Speaker
you know hit him and crucify him on it he just doesn't have that that that that knowledge of the intricacies of of mls and and in each team uh so yeah so those are the things where it's like if you don't understand it it's your prerogative to have an opinion for sure the fans especially you know they they they can go ahead and say yeah there's that and the other and it is our job as those that are watching the team that that are reporters, that are in the beat, that understand it they have the insight, not just of this team, but many other teams, to provide that information and understanding.
01:33:14
Speaker
ah All right, Nico, I think we can call it right there unless you got any anything else sounders wise to
Conclusion and Future Content Teaser
01:33:20
Speaker
to hit or anything. that No, no, no, no. That that is it. Actually, i just saw my WhatsApp hit with an interesting in name. So I definitely want to get out of here yeah too and go go check that out. it And then let us all know who it is.
01:33:34
Speaker
That's right. That's right. Hopefully we'll we'll have some going on there next Monday. Sounds good. All right. Thank you all for tuning in. As always, much appreciated. Everyone, please like the video, sub to the channel, like, comment, subscribe, rate five stars. Follow us on Instagram. Follow us on TikTok. Buy the Lobbing Scorchers hot sauce. I'll be back at it on Thursday for Under the Lights and let you guys know what's up with the rest of our offseason coverage as it comes.
01:34:01
Speaker
Thanks again for watching. Until next time, we out. Love y'all. Peace.