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Putting Koroks on a Spit
77 Plays1 year ago
- Under ethics pressure, California state bar advances lawyer 'snitch' rule | Reuters
- Oakland A’s Move to Vegas Is Costly Gamble for Nevada Taxpayers
- Elon Musk wants to build a digital town square. But his debut for DeSantis had a tech failure. | AP News
- A new bar exam is coming. Here's what it will test. | Reuters
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Transcript
Starbucks Hours & Espresso Machines
00:00:01
Speaker
Starbucks is absolutely open after 7 here. Is it not there? OK, hold on. Let's check this. Yeah, real time follow up. I mean, Jake lives in Florida, and I don't know, people in Florida? I was about to make some disparaging comments about Florida. I'm going to censor myself.
00:00:17
Speaker
Yeah, no. You're right. It closes at 8. OK. OK. Yeah. OK. So I could have grabbed something quickly before the show. Yeah. Around me, I bet you they stay open even later, because I think the closer you get to college campuses, the more likely it is that they stay open a little later. That's true.
00:00:31
Speaker
Yeah, we have 24 hour ones here in like around Rutgers and a couple of other places. There's like one or two, but it's not the norm for sure. But of course, this is just dodging the conversation, which is you have an espresso machine at home, which is pretty cool. But also, whenever I see that, I'm like, that's cool, but that's so much work.
00:00:50
Speaker
No, okay, so, yeah, I'm gonna explain here. I don't have, I have, okay, I have a super automatic espresso machine. You pour beans in the top, you put water in a tank, and it has a little LCD, and you hit the buttons you want, and it makes the drink you want, and that's it. Big Money Lahey over there. Well, I mean, I was spending more at Starbucks. This is actually a savings. This is, you know, cinching the belt a little bit. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So in case, I do believe that. Like, I was spending,
00:01:17
Speaker
Back in my heyday Starbucks days, I was, man.
00:01:21
Speaker
I guess I was getting Starbucks like 15 times a month. I like four bucks. I wasn't even that expensive. Like it was like four bucks, four bucks each visit. So that's like 60 bucks a month. That'll pay for itself in, I don't know, $720 a year. That's not a $720 machine that lay he has. That's gotta be like, uh, that's good. You're going to have to advertise that cost over the course of like two, three years.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's not. OK.
Podcast Introduction & Legal Disclaimer
00:01:50
Speaker
You take out a HELOC and you pay for it over 15 years. Yeah. That's how those work. Oh, OK. All right, so. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. You know what? I got to. We really got to do something about this music. No.
00:02:10
Speaker
I'm just going to let, I'm going to set my three year old up with garage band on the iPad and just let him come up with some nonsense. Like I'll give it a beat. I'll give it, you know, I'll program in a four Ford drum set and I'll just let him sit there and mash buttons and see what happens. And it'll be better than the AI generated clown music.
00:02:28
Speaker
I'm hoping that AI will get better at music. Our theme can kind of evolve with it, you know what I mean? It can grow together like a boy and his dog. Our theme is now like a half a year old. That's like forever ago in generative AI terms. For sure. How about that? I bet you could make a better one now. A good one now, right? We had one the first time. I bet you could make a good one.
00:02:51
Speaker
I think this was my prompt. In fact, I'm the artist behind this one. Supreme Court barbecue. Supreme Court barbecue. As the artist, I'm free to disparage my own work. Are you the artist, though, for purposes of copywriting? Yes. Did you create it? Really? Yes. Dial back to episode two of Esquiring Minds, I think. Maybe the hidden unheard episode.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, we should tell people what this is, because right now they're going to think it's a show about coffee and bad AI-generated music. But it's not. The show is three lawyer friends goofing around for your enjoyment. Nothing we say here should be taken as legal advice, because we don't know what we're talking about.
Oakland A's Move to Las Vegas
00:03:29
Speaker
We have our own little areas of sort of, I will say it's pseudo-expertise for me. It's real expertise for you guys. But we sort of never talk about things that we actually know anything about. We kind of just align on. Sure we do. Do we? No, I don't. You never talk about things that you know about. But I've talked about things that I know about.
00:03:47
Speaker
Most of the time we talk about things that Jake knows about. Oh, so it's just me then. OK, well, me. You're a poor tax man. Nobody ever wants to talk about tax. Even I don't want to talk about sales suppression. No, it's not like I'm chomping at the bit and you guys are saying, like, to be fair to both of you, it's not as though I'm continually putting it in the outline and you're turning it down. I have no interest in talking about it either. I do want to talk about it elsewhere. Well, we can talk about it later if we can talk about the A's and the tax bonds and stuff. But that's also my that's also partially my jam.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think you might be. I might again defer to you. I mean, I'm happy to talk about it, but I think you're more the expert of the Oakland A's and that's really the they're going right.
00:04:26
Speaker
Well, we'll see. There's an announced deal. So the Oakland days moving away from my hometown Oakland, almost definitely, to Las Vegas based on an announced deal, partially based on public funding from Nevada, from the state, and then partially based on tax increment revenue bonds from Nevada, from Clark County, which is Las Vegas.
00:04:50
Speaker
Uh, front of the front of the show, Brandon, um, uh, we'll be paying off those bonds. Uh, but yeah, personally, yeah, as has been demanded by the gap, uh, air that owns the Oakland A's Brandon will be personally paying those bonds off over the rest of his life.
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah. But the, uh, so the deal between Oakland and the A's broke down over what the A's said was like, uh, you know, dang, we're just $80 million apart and it's not closing. And so they announced they were moving to Las Vegas for with 400 million in public funding. The announced deal was like 270 million in public funding as the deal like kind of derailed and it's like, Oh, okay. You were totally full of it this whole time. Like you were never going to stay in Oakland.
00:05:35
Speaker
No, I don't think so. Yeah, this was just a way to improve your negotiating stance with Nevada. And once Oakland was like, oh, okay, you're out, then you're out. You had to give up some of that money. So I'm glad we at least made things worse for them. I wish them all the pain in the world. And yeah, have fun with that. Dave Cavall and Fisher.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah, John Fisher or something, right? John Fisher. He's the son of the Gap founder or Gap founder. Is he the son? Yeah, I thought he was the Gap founder. No, I think he's now the CEO or something. He's in some way the majority shareholder or whatever. Yeah, so the initial thing was that they were going to... They claimed initially that they had an agreement in place to purchase property for this.
00:06:28
Speaker
And then that's not the deal. That's not ultimately the deal. I wrote an article about it. I'll put it in the show notes. I forget what they're now going to raise to put the stadium. The Tropicana? Is that what it is? The Tropicana is the name of the casino, like an old casino or something. So they moved it totally far away.
00:06:49
Speaker
For like in a different or a different location on the strip, but like the further down. Right. From like they originally were going to put it near like what is it the what's that like Camelot based.
00:07:03
Speaker
One. Oh, I don't know. It's not circus circus. Right. It's like near New York. It's near New York, New York. Is that is that the name of a place? I don't know. It sounds like you're just naming old musicals or something. I don't know. There's a fake New York skyline casino.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yes, across from the MGM and then across from that fake New York Skylines Casino, there's a circus slash Camelot Casino where I stayed. That's terrible. That sounds a circus slash Camelot. It sounds like a Ren fair with gambling.
00:07:38
Speaker
But yeah, I knew it was going to be over by there and then instead it's moving far down the strip towards like the Mirage, I think. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I'm just like fever dreaming out my recollection of going to Vegas when I was 21 with my dad, which was 13 years ago. So it all might be different now.
00:08:01
Speaker
Oh,
Locals Avoiding Tourist Spots
00:08:02
Speaker
I forgot. Yeah. You're our youth correspondent. So you're pretty young 13 years ago. You were 21. Wow. I actually had to do is we got to get our Vegas correspondent on here to give us the geography of the Vegas strip. Although you know what? My guess is he probably doesn't know either. It's probably changed like three times this week.
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it's also probably one of those things that if you live in the area, you never go to that part of town. You avoid that entire area. He's been there, you know, as many times as you have. Right. It's like Orlando and Disney. If you're not into Disney, then you're then you're just never going there. I avoid I avoid everything south of Orlando, the city, which is where Disney is like the plague because.
00:08:42
Speaker
That's where all the people are who are not from Orlando. Because you hate happiness and fun and joy. You hate magic, Jake. The magic of the worst traffic I've ever been in. We should introduce ourselves so people know what we're talking about. Good idea.
Podcast Hosts' Professions & Humor
00:09:00
Speaker
I'm one of the aforementioned friends nine minutes ago. That aforementioned, it's a delayed aforementioned.
00:09:05
Speaker
I'm Andrew Leahy. I'm a tax and technology attorney from New Jersey. I'm joined by Jake, the Florida local government land and use misanthrope that hates people. I'm not even sure I call it a I'm not even sure I can call myself a link.
00:09:18
Speaker
a local government attorney. You're just land and use now? I'm just now land and use and construction because I started, in case you didn't listen like three, four episodes ago or whatever, heard the last time, started a new job three weeks ago. And yeah, I'm still learning, but now I have a better idea of what I'm actually doing. So that's nice.
00:09:44
Speaker
Okay. Sounds good. You can introduce Jason now. It's Jason Ramesland. He's an employment attorney, right? You're still that. You're still doing that. You're still hanging into that. Okay. I'm an anti-work lawyer. You can go to anti-worklawyer.com and find me there. Wait, really? Yeah. That's anti-work, not woke, right? Anti-work. Anti-woke is probably another lawyer entirely. That's Lynn Wood. That is not me. I bet. Okay. Yeah, it worked. It worked. Congratulations. Now let's see anti-woke lawyer. Uh-oh. Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker
This is, uh, some live, uh, live feedback from the youth correspondent here pulling up anti-woke lawyer. I bet it didn't pull anything. I bet you could own that if you wanted to. Okay. So you guys get, you guys go
Ron DeSantis's Twitter Announcement
00:10:26
Speaker
on. I'm going to mute my mic and, uh, get on a Hummer here and totally register that for a prank.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say we need to redirect that to Andrew dot lady or Andrew dot legal. Andrew dot lady would be incredible though. If that, you just need to make a, uh, have all the domain, uh, donation to ICANN. Yeah. And again, TLD, and then that.
00:10:48
Speaker
And then nobody will go to that site too. So that'll be useful. You guys, it's only $15 on hover. I'm totally buying this right now. What poor person on Learned Council Slack is about to get this redirect. Yeah, we got a buddy in our Learned Council Slack that's going so low. And this is just totally right for him. It seems right up his alley. Anti-workwear. That's irony. That's irony. It is not up his alley. No.
00:11:16
Speaker
Sorry, who are we talking about? Oh, I don't think you can name names now. Okay. Because you're still sort of insinuated that maybe he's anti-woke or she. Or maybe not. He or she is maybe or maybe not have political opinions. Right. They don't have any opinions. They don't have any opinions. They don't. We're not anti-woke. No, I'm certainly not. We can use gender neutral pronouns like just total pros.
00:11:43
Speaker
that I've been on the they should be singular since I absolutely undergrad before I you know before there was any concept of that the idea of that as like a social state yeah I had other than as a grammar guy cuz dang it would be nice it'd be nice let me I've been on they as a singular since I was corrected for it in fourth grade and didn't want to be corrected for it
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, of course. I want they to be seen. That's fine. They have also you really want to make us do he her he her she or Yeah, no his her or his or hers He or she all the time. No, no No time. Absolutely. You know how much easier that makes it to like draft documents from templates and not have to change the gender pronouns all the time like that's fantastic We should totally do it
00:12:31
Speaker
or have annoying slashes in the middle of it. Oh, yeah. What do you what do you guys do for salutations and emails? I've completely dropped any gender of any sort. Hey, all, all depending on, you know, how how all I do genuinely still occasionally get a like gentleman colon. And then the first thing I do is look in the CC box and guarantee there's a woman on that list that needs to deal with that. But yes, there needs to be. But
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's a little bit more difficult in the upper Midwest, especially like y'all is like southern Midwest. Like the y'all from the south has gradually crept its way up north. Sounds like maybe you've even picked it up in Jersey. But in upper Midwest, like Chicago area, Indianapolis, Wisconsin, like Milwaukee area, it's all you guys, you guys. Yeah. And like you guys is not gendered as far as that's concerned, but guys gendered and so forth.
00:13:29
Speaker
I like guys as a non-gendered plural. As do I like, I like y'all as well. Like y'all was so useful. I used y'all when I grew up in California, even though I was not associated with the South at all. And I still use it. I love it. It's a great word. It should be, it somehow has like, it needs to just be a word. Just make it a word.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. Come on Oxford. Come on. Because you can't. Merriam Webster. Let's do it. It's totally managed. It's totally managed to make its way into the lexicon of just basically like everybody in America to the extent where like I listen to a podcast that has like an Italian guy and a British guy on it. Granted they do a podcast with a guy from Memphis, but like they say y'all and usually they're making fun of the guy from Memphis, but it's known. People know what it means. It's not a surprise to anybody.
00:14:23
Speaker
It's interesting that y'all and you all are two very different things. Like if you were to start an email to somebody as you all colon, that's his strange posture. That's negative, that's pejorative. Yeah, that's not like, that's your- That's accusatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas y'all is like folksy and fun. Yeah, y'all is the version of saying a kid's full name. That's what you all is. Exactly, everyone on that list is in trouble. Well, and if you started out
00:14:51
Speaker
Hey, you guys, you sound like chunk from Goonies. Yes. Hey, you guys. Yes. I'm going to do that just for fun now. It's going to be great. That should be your voice for the whole podcast. Hey, we should talk about law and technology and stuff like that and current events. I like law and technology. That's great. OK, let's do that. Tell us about what's going on, because I've had my head in the sand this week.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah. So, uh, I've spent sort of out of it too, but I know a little bit about the stuff that's been going on. Uh, I think our mini topic is the DeSantis announcement and how I have thoughts on this. I know I'm sure you both have. So what don't do, do you know there was an announcement made by Ron DeSantis, uh, on Twitter with Elon Musk? So the first time I saw, the first time I saw anything about this, it was printed. Somebody had, uh, somebody linked to me somewhere.
00:15:36
Speaker
a tweet that said like DeSantis, Musk, and then like a couple other Republican goons in there. I think it was like Trey Gowdy and somebody else. Yeah, Trey Gowdy. And then somebody had never heard of a columnist, David somebody or other? Yeah. I'm talking about David Sachs. David Sachs, yeah.
00:15:53
Speaker
Is it David Sachs? Oh, okay. I know. Okay. I was like, what we're having an announcement of DeSantis Musk, like Musk is going to be the running mate. And I think that spun us off into like a whole like, Oh my goodness. What is article? What are the article two implications of, uh, of an announcement like that? Uh, at which point I discovered that there's no requirements strictly written into the text of the constitution that the vice president be a natural born citizen of the United States. Uh,
00:16:19
Speaker
But then I figured out, no, it was just that was the like group that was going to be participating in the announcement. And what I know about it is that from a technical standpoint, forget the candidacy standpoint from a technical standpoint, it was just absolute chaos. I heard that there were something like six or seven crashes of the Twitter space, which is like that. That's the analog to.
00:16:46
Speaker
Uh, their clubhouse, right. It's just a pure audio format. And you have like, it's like the worst things of a conference call combined into one where you have like people who are authorized to speak.
Twitter's Technical Challenges
00:16:57
Speaker
And then a bunch of people who are authorized to listen.
00:16:59
Speaker
And apparently that crashed like six or seven times. People's Twitter app where they were hosting the spaces or listening to the spaces, like that crashed six or seven times for a bunch of people. Well, not just people, Musk himself. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, so he had an issue where he lost the space. He couldn't maintain the space. He kept crashing and he couldn't get back in. So then he had to have, before I mentioned, David Sacks or whatever, then had to be switched to his account to host the space.
00:17:27
Speaker
Which is just like, I mean, this would be bad for a podcast, never mind a presidential announcement. I'm sorry, go on. And then like a couple of times DeSantis got demoted to where he couldn't be a speaker anymore. He was just a, he was just a listener on the call. Like, uh, you know, I can't decide who it looks worse for in that situation. Uh, it probably looks worse for Twitter.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's spaces. So I've had fun with spaces like I've had, you know, smaller people I care I care about will have a space with like 100 people maybe. And it's it's fun to like just kind of listen in and you can get pulled into the speaker spot you raise your hand if you have a question that kind of thing. But yeah, clearly they were not prepared. It's funny leading up to this.
00:18:16
Speaker
Which, you know, everybody kind of knew this with that announcement was coming in some form somewhere leading up to this somebody mentioned, you know.
00:18:25
Speaker
They said, this is a genius move. They're going to get more attention on spaces than they ever would have on TV where they would have pulled just a few million viewers. And the maximum that spaces got to before it crashed was like six hundred thousand or something. Yeah. And that includes people who joined to hate on it to see the sabotage. Yeah.
00:18:48
Speaker
Right. Because everybody knew that spaces wasn't built like that. Like it's not as it held up for six hundred seventy eight thousand like or it even remotely held up for a number of that like of that magnitude. That's surprising. But like when it did, that's the thing. So it seemed to like I never tried to join because I don't because I didn't care. But also there were like two hundred thousand
00:19:13
Speaker
I kept seeing a notification that there were two hundred thousand people in the space right at the top of like Twitter web and I have heard that like it was still full of problems even when it was up.
00:19:26
Speaker
And this is kind of just like a reminder that this kind of interactive conference kind of input from multiple sources stuff is extremely hard. And maybe you shouldn't fire all of your engineers. You shouldn't fire 9 tenths of your engineers that are working on it if you want to have it do a major announcement like this.
00:19:51
Speaker
especially when it wasn't fully baked, even when you had all like, I mean, this is like, it's not new in terms of calendar months that it's existed, but it's relatively new in terms of the maturity of the technology underlying it. And so this is like, if there's a failure point on Twitter, this is
00:20:07
Speaker
for sure. Maybe not for sure what it's gonna be because maybe video could be but I mean this is you know I was in the top handful of things that you would expect that would be impacted by this and then to your point Jake I don't know who it looks worse for but like flipping it around if it had worked out I don't know who this is for. I understand the idea that a lot of people are going to see it but
00:20:27
Speaker
Are they people who wouldn't have seen it on television? Only a few million people would see it on TV and you know obviously there's more than a few million people on Twitter, right? But how many people are going into spaces? I have like maybe once or twice graduate space. That's the thing like there's like way fewer people are looking at Twitter spaces than are watching like Fox News or something.
00:20:47
Speaker
It would be like predicting how many people are going to watch it on Fox News by having a number of how many televisions there are in the United States and saying like, Oh, there's, you know, 500 million televisions. And so there'll be 500 million people watching it, or there'll be 250 million people watching it. And the other thing was, what I didn't understand is like what the benefit is.
00:21:05
Speaker
for DeSantis or for Musk. I mean, this is a huge risk for Musk. I don't really know what the point, like to some extent, I think it doesn't hurt Musk as much as it hurts DeSantis because Musk is already kind of owning the brand of like moving fast and breaking things. And I hate that term, but that's the kind of nonsense that he, you know, espouses or whatever. And so he, I mean, I've seen interviews with him where he talks about not giving up stability to roll out new features sooner.
00:21:31
Speaker
So he's already sort of, it's baked into what people think about Twitter. I think it's back to like the fail. Well, where he goes down from time to time. So like there wasn't a lot of risk to him, but I don't understand what the benefit was. It was going to get a huge amount of attention and all the networks were going to cover it. It's going to get, it's going to get a bunch of attention from people who as, as a group may not be as interested in Twitter, but once they find out, Oh, Hey, there's this cool thing that I am interested in that's happening like on Twitter.
00:22:00
Speaker
maybe it drags a bunch of people over because historically in the before musk times, Twitter was probably fairly described as a primarily liberal platform with pockets of Nazis and Klansmen
Elon Musk's Twitter Strategy
00:22:17
Speaker
in places kind of hiding out in corners. And now it's pretty rapidly turning the opposite way where it's like, yep, pockets of Nazis and Klansmen still.
00:22:28
Speaker
and then more conservative stuff that is, it's really skewing very conservative. And so that's like Musk kind of inviting people who haven't already witnessed that part of Twitter's transition to come on board and be part of this. And for DeSantis, my hunch is that it's probably a little bit of political bridge building to somebody who's kind of a newer darling to the right in Musk,
00:22:58
Speaker
you know, says, oh, I used to be a liberal, and then the Overton window shifted, and now, you know, liberals are way far, far left, and conservatives have stayed exactly where they are. And, okay, this isn't an entirely political podcast, so I won't dwell on how silly I think that is. But, like, it's probably mostly bridge building or musk to, like, reach out and formally
00:23:26
Speaker
try to try and build like a new alliance. For DeSantis, it's probably the same thing to where he's trying to get this guy who's influential in a circle that maybe DeSantis isn't influential in yet.
00:23:39
Speaker
I don't know how much it can be called political. I think we've made our, but we've made our feelings on certain tech people pretty clear and tech attitudes, you know, that's quasi political in a way, I guess. I'm not sure how much Elon is really calculating at this point.
00:24:03
Speaker
I agree. Right. He's a he loves this is like the me, you know, I don't think this ultimately does. There's going to be a lot of, you know, headlines about this being terrible and like coming out of the gate poorly or whatever. I don't think it really matters that much in the long term. I agree. But if you're making a presidential announcement, I don't think you want to do it alongside somebody that just wants to be at the center of attention at all times.
00:24:29
Speaker
Uh, that's not like, I don't think you want to share the microphone with that guy floats away or, or blows up. He just wants people to tune in. Right. So yeah, you don't want to be holding one of the ropes. Yeah. He's been pretty clear that he doesn't, he like just floats to whoever says they, they like him. Like that is right. Elon's just like, look, you like, okay, Saudi Arabia, you like me. Okay. Like whoever's tolerating me at this moment is the person that I'm in favor of.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah, whoever's we're shipping me. I'm I'm into that person and y'all don't know David Sacks I am all I'm mostly familiar of David Sacks because of
00:25:10
Speaker
his, uh, various incorrect opinions on Ukraine that keep going around, um, the, uh,
California's New Legal Reporting Rule
00:25:18
Speaker
and was like famously continuously repeatedly wrong about Ukraine, uh, and pro and pro Russia. So I, I added a dislike for him separate from this, but he's all he's similar where he's just like all about, he, he just floats to whatever opinion makes him feel good, basically. Um, so very,
00:25:39
Speaker
Like that's not who I would want to share the microphone with. And from what I've heard, like the actual conversation, wasn't that interesting? Once the speech was over, it was just like, you know, it was the exact same as any other space. And by the way, so one thing that you all mentioned was the, you know, the political shift in Twitter. And there's definitely like the activity is definitely very different.
00:26:05
Speaker
especially with the Twitter Blue subscribers being elevated and those mostly being insane people. But honestly, if it were not for Twitter Blue,
00:26:19
Speaker
The feed is so different for everyone. Twitter is definitely, and Twitter is no exception for social media generally, but also Twitter. I know people who had totally different Twitter feeds than I did.
00:26:39
Speaker
Like, apparently Twitter is just like a totally different experience for like teenagers. And that's something that Twitter was working on really hard before Elon Musk took over, where it's much less of like a political cesspool that it has been since 2016. Because of engagement, I would imagine, right? I mean, they don't tend to engage. And so I don't know that that's true. I'm guessing that if you're like 15, you're not super interested in like what Ron DeSantis is thinking about.
00:27:06
Speaker
Anything probably I don't know. I think well Gen Z has been like
00:27:11
Speaker
more much more engaged than other generations politically. Yeah, I'm a millennial and I'm showing. Yeah. Well, like compared to their age group, I don't know if they like relative to the age group. So I don't know if they are. I bet millennials are more politically engaged, but Gen Z are more politically engaged and millennials were at that age. Right. And it's been, you know, kind of kind of dramatic. Did you did you all see the BU?
00:27:39
Speaker
the Boston University commencement where David Zaslav, the Warner Brothers discovery CEO talked. And the graduates shouted them down over the writer's strike.
00:27:56
Speaker
It's like, it's like, man, we never would have done that. Millennials aren't doing that. That's BU. That's like, like,
Enforcing Legal Reporting Rules
00:28:06
Speaker
I don't think, yeah, no, I wouldn't have said anything. I don't even know. I don't remember who my graduation guy is. And that's not even that controversial of a thing.
00:28:15
Speaker
like uh and uh like i mean you know i the writers should get paid uh but uh it's not like a huge like you know generation the fighting thing or like right you know humongously political issue um but like you know we had a the new college of florida
00:28:35
Speaker
recently went over a very public makeover where there were a lot of conservative political people that were installed and a lot of new educational restraints put on and an intentional political drive towards conservative and the graduates were just completely put on their own
00:29:03
Speaker
commencement and were openly hostile to the entire official commencement and the speakers there and everybody that attended and the speakers just kind of like ducked for cover. It was very like, it was much more, I mean, it might be a product of the age. Sorry, I'm going on forever. It might be a product of the age. But like, it's hard to imagine millennials doing something collectively like
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, collect organized enough to actually get something done. Yeah, I mean you might I remember there was someone at a commencement I think it was governor Christie gave a commencement at Rutgers here or Seton Hall or something and someone went and shouted something or other Adam and he sort of famously got into an argument with the guy and like called him a jerk or or told that the police like get that twerp out of here so Christie's kind of a belligerent
00:29:53
Speaker
That was like front page news, Star Ledger, you know, everybody knew.
AI Legal Tools & Training Data
00:29:57
Speaker
And I knew this guy's name because I then went to law school. I think it was a year ahead of me, but I went to law school with him and I remembered his name from that. Like, oh, he's the guy who yelled at Governor Christie. But circling back really quickly to the Twitter thing, I don't think and whether or not Elon planned this.
00:30:12
Speaker
I think it goes back exactly as far as Tucker Carlson taking his show to Twitter. The story there is that, according to Elon Musk, if you want to believe him, that there was no deal struck between Carlson and Musk. Carlson decided he was going to do the show just as a user of Twitter on Twitter.
00:30:31
Speaker
I think that showed Musk an avenue of an audience, and that's why he did this thing with this. I think it is literally a 10-day-old idea in Musk's head to have DeSantis make this announcement. And at some point, he said to him, he reached out to DeSantis, said, this would be a great way to get in touch with where all the real audience is or whatever. And I mean, DeSantis has been a little bit of a
00:30:53
Speaker
sort of, I don't want to say chasing memes as much as sort of like, he's like an online guy, you'll see something is sort of bubbling up in the conservative Twitter sphere. And then he'll have some sort of take on it the following week. And so I think for him going on Twitter,
00:31:08
Speaker
made plenty of sense and the upside to the whole thing is if it crashes and burns as it did, it's not really going to hurt him because as we're continually reminded, Twitter is not the internet and the internet is not the world. And if you went by Twitter in 2016, Bernie Sanders would have won. If you went by Twitter in 2020, Bernie Sanders would have won.
00:31:30
Speaker
Twitter's not everything, you know what I mean? It doesn't really matter what, like, there's a lot of upside for him and not necessarily a ton of downside as long as he personally doesn't do something completely goofy in this space. Yeah. I suspect that what really happened here is that Musk promised a huge campaign donation funneled into DeSantis's super pack that got him to bring it over to Twitter. Yeah. That's the most obvious. That's Occam's razor, right? It's like a donation was tied to this. Yeah.
00:31:59
Speaker
I completely forgot about Elon trying to make Twitter the best place for content creators. And I don't know if maybe this was part of that too, though. I haven't seen any real steps to actually making that happen, so we'll see.
00:32:18
Speaker
That's part of like the X app, everything app thing, right? I mean, that's all sort of a piece that it's going to do everything. And yeah, I mean, he rolled out the thing for purchasing stocks so that Stock Twitter could like do the trading on there. And it was like a half measure, right? It's just a partnership with some other trading platform, not Robinhood, but whatever the other one is. And same thing here. They rolled this. Was it bull? Weebl?
00:32:42
Speaker
People. The bull. I don't mind. Yeah. Well, whatever it is. It was rolled it out with some, you know, also ran trading platform and then this crashing and burning. Yeah. I mean, I think he's just going with whatever ideas he comes up with. And as I said, I really don't know that it was going to be a huge benefit to either of them, even if it all went like swimmingly.
00:33:03
Speaker
I don't know, was it Jake? Somebody shared on Learning Council Slack the Trump Truth Social slam of the announcement, which is the SpaceX rocket. Crashing. I did see that. Yeah, that was good. Hey, can one of you guys explain to me what's going on with the ethics rules in California?
00:33:27
Speaker
No. No. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Next time, do your homework though. Yeah. That was the whole point is we're not supposed to have to do homework. Oh, right. Okay. So California, I'll do it, I guess. I guess. Oh, thank you. California is the only state that does not currently have a rule requiring lawyers to report unethical behavior by other lawyers.
00:33:55
Speaker
Um, so I was like, I had, I had no idea that California didn't have this rule, but now they're looking at adopting a new one and they have two that they're proposing to the Supreme court of California. Uh, that like, I just differ based on how much evidence you need to support a complaint before you have to make it. Um, and.
00:34:20
Speaker
This was prompted by Tom Girardi, who's like, do you guys know Girardi Keys? Tom Girardi is like a very famous attorney,
Public Repositories for Legal Access
00:34:30
Speaker
both famous because for like being an attorney, but also famous because I think his wife is on like Real Housewives or something. That sounds right. And he had a big like client fund issue went missing, right? Yeah.
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like he, it turned out he had been stealing client, client funds for like decades. Yeah. And he had the Florida, the Florida, the California bar investigator that was supposed to investigate him was also getting paid by him and getting a private driver paid by him. That's that guy. Okay.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah, that guy anyway, because so many people knew about it and never reported it to the bar, and it was a huge problem for decades. California is like, you know, we should be able to go after all those people that knew about and didn't do anything, but we don't have this rule. So they're proposing a new rule. My thought is, we have this rule in Florida.
00:35:27
Speaker
I can't remember a single time it got actually enforced. If you run a firm, I've seen people get punished for actions by attorneys.
00:35:47
Speaker
under their supervision. Young attorneys, they'll punish the partner sometimes if the partner knew. But I've never seen it actually get enforced here. Have you, Jason, seen that kind of thing actually get enforced?
00:36:02
Speaker
I don't know of any instance where there's been somebody who is disciplined and a different attorney has been disciplined for knowing about it and not reporting it. And I've even been in situations where I think that there have been things that at least arguably crossed a line and you have juxtaposed against each other
00:36:28
Speaker
the duty of advocacy to be a good advocate for your client and the duty to snitch on somebody who has done an ethical thing and those things may be in tension with each other. And then on top of that,
00:36:43
Speaker
You also potentially have a situation where it seems retaliatory or predatory to make a report against somebody else, especially while you're in the middle of litigation. The times when I've felt some sort of inclination or some sort of responsibility to report an unethical behavior, the guidance that I got from my mentors at my old firm
00:37:10
Speaker
Essentially, there's a duty to report it, but that duty doesn't necessarily hold when it is adverse to the interests of your client. There's nothing in the rule that says when you have to report it. These things can get held off.
00:37:29
Speaker
until the litigation is over, which can be six months or six years or longer. By then it is out of memory, it's out of your interest. You don't want to spend the time. You don't want to deal with it. The latches mentality can set in where like, yeah, it's been so long. Are they really going to do anything about it? Realistically, they probably wouldn't if it's been six years since this thing happened.
00:37:57
Speaker
I think California is, I mean, it's absurd that they didn't have it in the first place. They have the most attorneys of any state in the union. Yeah. I mean, is it one out of every six lawyers in America as a California lawyer? It's a huge proportion. One out of every six people in America is a Californian. But to not have this rule in the first place is pretty bananas.
00:38:23
Speaker
you know, speaking for the state that I'm most familiar with, Indiana, I think we need to go further than just having the snitch rule. And I think we probably need to have something that puts a clock on it so that you have an obligation to report it within X period of time. And I think there probably ought to be safe harbor provisions because what you can't do is
00:38:45
Speaker
You can't leverage an attorney discipline matter to try and work out an advantageous result for your client, just like you can't leverage the threat of criminal prosecution. Those are big ethical problems.
00:39:01
Speaker
probably need to have something in the rules that more closely specifies. These are the circumstances under which you have an obligation. You have to do it within this time and lay out the consequence there because what's stopping these people who know about these 205 ethics complaints against Girardi over the course of the last 40 years? What's stopping them from saying, okay, I'm going to report it now.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, Girardi's a bad example because California doesn't have the rule, but if somebody, you know, if I've got word that, uh, uh, this one particular lawyer that I know about who's done some unethical stuff, uh, you know, if I get, yeah, right.
00:39:44
Speaker
that there's a disciplinary commission investigator who's kind of coming down the mountain looking for this guy. I'm gonna go report now because there's nothing in the rule that says that you have to report within a certain time. And so great California, do it, make it stronger in every other state that has kind of this loosey goosey duty to report. You gotta get more specific with that and say when you do it and here's how you handle a situation where
00:40:11
Speaker
you might be perceived as inappropriately leveraging it and get some real good guidance on that because I'm not sure we have that in most situations.
00:40:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'll read from the Bloomberg Law article that summarizes it a little bit. But there's two alternatives in California being considered. Neither one has any sort of time element. The Bar Board of Trustees considered two alternatives to mandate reporting and ended up after hours of debate sending both to the California Supreme Court for approval. The staff recommended proposal requiring reporting of a criminal act
00:40:45
Speaker
that reflects adversely on that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects or conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or reckless or intentional misrepresentation, or misappropriation of funds or property. And then there's a second narrower one that is just criminal acts, fraud, or misappropriation that raises a substantial question as to the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer. So it's basically- So it has to be criminal. Yeah.
00:41:10
Speaker
So in both, it has to be criminal. And then it's a question of does it raise a substantial question or just a question or I'm sorry, reflects adversely. So those are the two differences. The more broad scope one is if it's the criminal act that reflects adversely on honesty and trustworthiness. And the other is if it's a criminal act that raises a substantial question as to the lawyer's honesty.
00:41:31
Speaker
Which, I mean, again, I think Jason, you make a really good point. But more important to either of those distinctions would be some sort of time element as to when you have to. Because the reflects adversely versus raises a substantial question. I'm not sure I fully understand the distinction between the two. I mean, I understand in theory that substantial question is a little bit further along on the gradient or whatever. But I would have a lot of trouble
00:41:59
Speaker
figuring out what was in front of me when I was deciding whether or not I had to report somebody here. Right.
00:42:05
Speaker
And again, with the time thing, it gives you, I was trying to figure out if it was raising a substantial question or I was trying, you know what I mean? With no time bar, no time element, all of that is sort of, it gives you, there's an automatic escape hatch where it's just, well, I'm sorry, I was mistaken. I thought it didn't raise a substantial question. I thought it merely rose to the level of reflecting adversely or whatever. This really feels like it's only ever going to be enforced against the people that are like,
00:42:31
Speaker
where there's emails from that person to the other person saying, I know what you're doing. Stop this or like are intimately acquainted like with this Girardi Keith thing where like attorneys at his firm would find out and then just resign and go somewhere else.
00:42:47
Speaker
Right. Having no shadow of a doubt that something really bad was happening with client funds, that the client funds were being stolen. Right. Just quitting or going along with it. Or not reporting out of fear of retaliation that this powerful attorney who's doing this shady stuff is just going to squish you in your career. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah.
00:43:15
Speaker
I forgot about this, I just looked up Girardi. Do you guys know what the client funds he was stealing, or at least a big chunk of them were?
00:43:22
Speaker
It was $2 million in client funds that were due to the family of those killed by the Boeing 737 Max Lion Air flight 610 crash in Indonesia in 2018. That Indonesian crash, I mean, again, I think that is what it will be. It will be like egregious stealing from orphan type behavior that will actually have these things be reported, and then everything else will just be, ah, well, you couldn't be certain.
00:43:49
Speaker
And you'll know once he once he got caught what he what his defense was. No, what's up? His defense was I've lost my memory. I don't remember. I'm told I have dementia. Right. I can't defend myself anymore. It's like the old mob boss thing where every time one of the mob bosses in New York was about to go on trial, there'd be press photos of them shuffling around New York in like a bathrobe with somebody ushering them around. Oh, that's what they did with Weinstein.
00:44:16
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. Giancarlo lost his mind. He's demented now, so he can't stand trial for the gangland killing out in front of the Italian restaurant. I think there probably needs to be some sort of thing that's built into these rules in every state, like a safe harbor provision that
00:44:35
Speaker
protects you from worries about making a mistaken claim, too. I don't think that there's probably going to be very much chance that the board of law examiners of a state or the disciplinary commissioner, whatever the governing authority is, is going to clap back on somebody for making a report. But there probably needs to be some sort of shelter provision that's built in for people like that, too.
00:45:01
Speaker
and a mechanism for anonymity, right? I mean, I can imagine being a young lawyer in an area where you really don't want to make an enemy of a Girardi. I mean, he's, you know, again, maybe a bad example, but I remember, you know, being a first or second year attorney in a law firm, and not that I saw anything, you know, going on, but if I did, I wouldn't be super thrilled with reporting the partner that is a, you know, known entity in my area when I'm trying to get my career off the ground. If they would know.
00:45:28
Speaker
I think you're going to have constitutional problems with reporting it anonymously, especially if somebody is going to result in criminal prosecution. Like what is it? A former public defender? Is it a Sixth Amendment problem? The Confrontation Clause. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you don't need the that's the thing, that's only a problem if you need their testimony, but you might not need it if it's enough to start an investigation. Yeah. Fair enough. Anonymous tips start investigations all the time.
00:45:57
Speaker
But yeah.
00:46:00
Speaker
All right. Go California. I believe in it. Do it. Go California. Do it. Do it better. While you're at it, California, since you guys have been the last ones to adopt it, how about you go further and do better and adopt a rule that actually answers some of these questions that we're going to have to wrestle with after you adopt this rule? Give us a timeline. Give us much more specific things. Don't use these lawyer wiggle words like we're going to because we're lawyers.
00:46:30
Speaker
like substantial probability of or whatever it is that like reflect fully on the profession. Yeah, like take out the wiggle words and like just make it as simple as the TSA, like see something, say something, like great, cool.
00:46:45
Speaker
I don't like the TSA say something. Actually, I hate that. Never mind. I agree with that because it leads to an awful lot of pretty racist stuff, but that's less of a problem among lawyers.
00:47:03
Speaker
It's, uh, we wish, uh, but, uh, the, uh, it's like trusted so many of them are white. Yeah. Oh, that's true. All right. Which is not a good thing. I'm not saying that's a good though. No, no, no. Yeah. Jason's point is that the, the race, keep digging, keep digging at the law school and the bar exam level. And so there are less, uh, victims to be victimized. Unfortunately. Yeah. Okay.
00:47:31
Speaker
Jake you appear to be sweating. How you doing? No, but I was gonna say it's Yeah, see something say something you're asking everybody you trust their instinct Instincts are where the biases lie. So yeah Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's not it's not great But you know when it comes to this thing
00:47:51
Speaker
You know, Florida keeps saying Florida, you know, bar ethics in general. One of the biggest problems is that the richer the attorney you are, the less likely the bar wants to spend all the time and money to go after you because you will. That's true. They will bury the bar.
00:48:08
Speaker
the bar is a publicly funded organization that doesn't have a lot of money to go after the Girardi's and the big laws, the people that have millions to spend to destroy and harass the bar. So that's one of the biggest
00:48:27
Speaker
biggest impediments to actually having any of this happen. All right. Well, speaking of millions to spend, I think our next topic, we can go quickly. I don't know if you guys, have you guys actually got to play with any of these AI tools particularly yet? I mean, these are, sorry, legal AI things, not, you know, chat, GPT, Google bar, et cetera. Somebody made me the case text memo. So what's case text thing? Is that co-pilot?
00:48:55
Speaker
It's like co-pilot, so case text has introduced something called co-counsel. I knew it was very much like co-pilot. It's not entirely put together yet, so it's really only useful for certain kinds of things. When I had a trial of it, I was working on a summary judgment brief.
00:49:19
Speaker
and it's not equipped to do something like that yet. What it is equipped to do is take some basic information like you would put into chat GPT and then kind of do some searches through the case text materials, which is like LexisNexis or Westlaw, probably a little bit more limited than either one.
00:49:40
Speaker
But to go and put it together like a memo like a first or second year associate would do for a partner that addresses these particular topics without regard to the specific facts of a particular case.
00:49:54
Speaker
And it can do that with the guardrails on of not making up cases or not making up statutes like we were fighting with chat GPT back then. So huge feature ad there. Yeah, it's it's probably not a big feature yet for litigators who are working on briefs. But it is a good feature for some co-counsel specifically is a good feature for people who are writing memos for, you know,
00:50:23
Speaker
partner review or client review that are just kind of spitting out the fleshed out basics of a topic based off of what you can gather from case law and some secondary sources. I haven't tried the LexisNexis one. It's pretty new. I don't even know if they're having public trials of it yet, but that's kind of an exciting announcement that recently came out. The one that I just saw like right before we popped on here to record was
00:50:52
Speaker
This edition of something called spell book Which I don't know if that's like talking about like here's how you spell words or if it's talking about here are the magical incantations It's probably the magical incantation. I think it's magic. Yeah
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, but it's an AI co-pilot. Everybody's starting to call these things co-pilots, kind of glomming on to maybe the most successful one of these so far, which is GitHub co-pilot. And Office's thing is co-pilot as well. The Office 365, the thing that's going to roll out in Word and everything is also called co-pilot. Yeah, and that's a pretty interesting idea. It's basically taking what people do already, which is copy and paste from existing contracts when you're creating a new contract.
00:51:36
Speaker
But maybe doing that with some greater smarts like, uh, Hey spell book create a contract for me that addresses, uh, confidentiality as it relates to.
00:51:50
Speaker
employment and an obligation to assign every invention that you make to the company for any sort of invented thing while you work there. Okay, great. You can create that with Spellbook or you can go back and use the one that somebody else at the firm used three years ago for the exact same thing.
00:52:08
Speaker
Spellbook looks super interesting. I hate to be a naysayer on all these things, but my question remains for all of these whenever I look as much as they're willing to share under the hood. And it turns out it's just GPT-4 being hooked up to something. So Spellbook specifically raised $10.9 million from Moxie, Thomson Reuters, and other. And Thomson Reuters owns, I believe they own Westlaw? Is that right? I think so. And they're also Reuters themselves, and they're a huge conglomerate.
00:52:36
Speaker
I don't fully understand the... 10.9 million is not a lot of money, but I don't fully understand the value add for these middle person entities between GPT-4 and the final product. Especially in this particular example, I don't know what this is doing. For example, the co-counsel one for case tax, I understand that. It's being exposed to a set...
00:53:03
Speaker
curated database of information, right? Actual cases, actual statutory law, actual regulatory law, administrative, et cetera. And so that's the value add, right? Is that it's sort of parsing out all the garbage that's from like an eHow article, and it's only going to give you results from actual cases and actual the rest. For this, I don't fully get it. I'm hoping one of you does.
00:53:26
Speaker
My guess is that it has to do with a particular – so I think GPT-4 can be taken and applied to different sandboxes of like data sets, data models, and kind of facts that we trust. And that's kind of what co-counsel is doing. They just have a really big database of here's the case law and the statutory law and some limited selection of secondary sources that are trustworthy.
00:53:51
Speaker
Uh, I think probably what's happening here is these, uh, startups that are saying that we're GPT for applied to this sandbox and we've got a good sandbox trained on good data and spell book. My hunch is that they're, uh, that their value proposition here is we've trained it on a sandbox that is, you know, from.
00:54:15
Speaker
Oh, you're right. Westlaw. That's what it is. Reputable sources. Right. All those contracts, those form contracts on Westlaw. You're right. That's what it is. Yeah. The practical law that Westlaw produces and those kind of horn books more or less, and we're training it with that dataset. And you know, maybe that's the, maybe that's an important value proposition so that instead of going in to practical law, like you might with Westlaw,
00:54:39
Speaker
And what you do is go through their directory of contract clauses and you just manually click in and then you copy and select the text, copy it, paste it into your new contract, change the nouns and pronouns and whatever. And this is doing all that for you.
00:54:55
Speaker
you're probably eliminating a bunch of work for a first to fourth year associate and you're automating it, which I don't know if that's a very good value proposition to certain firms. But I think the value is coming from what it's trained on the sandbox that it's playing in.
00:55:14
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah, I didn't think about it, but that's probably why Thomson Reuters is in the group giving $10 million to them because they're probably also giving them access to that training data. I'm thinking of this from not that I'm capable of it, but if you wanted to, if we had some idea among the three of us where we know something about GPT-4, we generally understand how it functions, and we have an idea as to we want to roll out some sort of legal product,
00:55:37
Speaker
how would we distinguish ourselves from the rest of the pack? And I think that's it, right? It's finding the training, getting access to the training data, getting exclusive access to the training data, at least with regards to GPT-4, so that you are the only entity that has a GPT-4 language model trained on practical guidance or whatever the Westlaw product is. And Lexus, the same thing, et cetera.
00:56:03
Speaker
I think the holy grail for me as a litigator in this situation is have a good model like co-counsel that can look at verified
00:56:16
Speaker
case law verified and like we know that this is good statute, statutory law that can look through kind of these most trustworthy secondary sources like corn books or something like that. And then also take the material that I feed to you and sandbox that and then turn that into Jason writes what he wants. I'm referring to myself in the third person. This is really good.
00:56:43
Speaker
I write whatever I believe the truth of the case to be I write the the argument the brief that I want to write and this system then says well here's all the evidence that you've gathered in this case and here's what supports and here's what refutes what you just wrote like that the holy grail for me.
00:57:01
Speaker
That's cool. That's the AI system I want. This just raised a question to me that I don't know if you guys are prepared to answer, but your opinions would be interesting. And if not, we can talk about it next week. So we've talked in the past a little bit about public sources, free public sources for statutory law, for regulatory law, for case law, all that sort of stuff. You have like Cornell's Legal Information Library. I don't know what it's called, whatever it is, LII. Institute. Institute, yeah.
00:57:27
Speaker
You have Justia, I think is another one. There's a few of these sort of projects are going on. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that there needs to be an open source free public version of these things like co-counsel in order to put people on a level playing field? Like, is this such a value add to attorneys that can afford it? Attorneys, period. But attorneys that can afford it, right? That there needs to be a public option.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yo, you mean like so like one that would be provided by the bar is like a basic part of your. Yes. I don't really know. I don't think it's that useful. I think it's a time saver, if anything, just like, you know, there's a million time savers you could spring money for. So I don't I personally don't think it's that interesting. I thought you're going to ask, should there be some kind of public repository of contracts? I think that'll be cool.
00:58:21
Speaker
That would be very cool. And I think some places already have it, but it would be nice if there was a public repository of basic contracts for basic stuff that everybody needs to have or should have. Ironically, generating that would be a great use of AI.
00:58:41
Speaker
Right? Like aim it at basically like the SEC's Edgar filings or something, some source of like known, you know, quasi good terms, right? And then generate a whole bunch of contracts. And, you know, why stop there? Maybe have it something that can bespoke, generate a contract, you know what I mean? Based on the, you know, pick the jurisdiction you're trying to get. Because there's some variation, right? And some of these that we've talked about, like NDAs and stuff to some variation between states.
00:59:06
Speaker
That's a great idea. That's a million dollar idea for our listeners because realistically, I mean, that's the thing. It's not going to make money. It's designed to not make money. It should get a grant. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And I mean, it's basically the, uh, the contract equivalent or the other agreement contract equivalent of like when you walk into the small claims court, uh, they have like a wall with a bunch of drawers. That's just got,
00:59:30
Speaker
uh, stacks upon stacks of here's what you need to do for, you know, here's, uh, the small claims complaint form and here's a small claims appearance form. And here's a small claims, uh, you know, uh, request for a trial and request for discovery and proceeding supplemental for collection. Like they have those forms and a lot of quotes already. We're just talking about doing that in transactional context. Uh, people are still going to screw it up because you have people that go and pluck good contracts
01:00:01
Speaker
otherwise acceptable contracts from online and they pick and choose what they want out of them and they end up with just like garbage because they don't know what they're doing.
01:00:10
Speaker
And so having like a trustworthy repository of, Hey, don't try to cobble this together on your own. Here's a good thing that you can use. Uh, and that's a, that's a good idea, but there's no money in it. That's by definition. So there are for lawyers. It's funny. So there, there's something like it for lawyers for in Florida, the Florida bar has a website called legal fuel, which has, uh, engagement letters.
01:00:38
Speaker
It has conflict letters, it has letters to clients when you're leaving a firm, it has a million things like that, free for lawyers. It's really helpful. So it's just kind of strange that there isn't like, we don't even need, it doesn't even have to be, it can be anything and it would be better than a lot of these situations where, you know,
01:01:00
Speaker
people just think I'm not going to there's we can't afford a lawyer, we're not going to get a contract, you can have five sentences and the process of having of writing down. Here's what I'm giving you. Here's what you're giving me.
01:01:15
Speaker
is by itself very helpful because contracts aren't like, you know, it's not really, uh, it's not about punishing or because you don't trust the other side. It's because you want to establish that you both know what you're getting into. Um, a meeting of the minds, a meeting, a meeting of the minds and the more complicated it is, the more important that it's written. But having anything written is very helpful.
01:01:41
Speaker
You never want to go into a case with breach of oral contract as your main claim. That's a bad situation. Also, it just helps avoid fighting, even if you're talking about $400 or less than that. Again, none of this is legal advice, so nobody should be listening to this and thinking, oh, I'm going to go write a contract on my own. But the other thing that comes to mind is
01:02:06
Speaker
uh states of trust right a will like a basic will yeah you'd be astounded to read the case the uh case law and you know at least in new jersey as to what is a fully functioning will like scribbling something on the back of an envelope and signing oh and done you know what i mean like really very low bar no florida's not like that florida says no you you need witnesses like florida says no holographic wills
01:02:36
Speaker
You need witnesses. You need formality. Otherwise you're just in test state entirely. It's as though there's no way. Yeah, you're in test state.
01:02:48
Speaker
Well, certain automatic presumptions that go with being in test date. Yeah, to be clear, my understanding of a New Jersey, it's not as though then that will is a fully functioning will. It's taken into consideration what it appears your intentions were. And so it's not just, yeah, you're not just fully in test date. But my point is, I think a lot of people think that there's
01:03:08
Speaker
a magical incantation that's required for these sorts of things. And as you said, just having a very simple contract would go a long way towards having it come down in the favor of, come down reflecting the actual agreement that was originally contemplated, right? Yep.
01:03:23
Speaker
All right. I think we are running long, so I think we could probably go to what's going on and recommendations here. And I'm going to be easy for this one because I'm still playing the new Star Wars game, so I don't have anything new. So what do you guys got? You're behind the times, man. I know. You got to move on to Zelda. Have you? Man, you should see like Zelda is like.
01:03:43
Speaker
I get it why people said Breath of the Wild is the best game of all time now. Before, I was like, that game is fine. I wasn't that into that game. I'm into this one, Tears of the Kingdom, like other people were into Breath of the Wild. I'm just like, it's taking over my brainwaves. I want to play Zelda, or I want to play the new one, but I didn't play super far in Breath of the Wild, and I'm afraid I'm going to be lost. Oh, you don't need to. Really? I was lost.
01:04:08
Speaker
you would benefit from playing them in order, but you should not prohibit yourself from playing Tears of the Kingdom because you haven't played Breath of the Wild because it's still good fun. I think you could actually even play Tears and then go back and play Breath and still have a really good time. Jake took Zelda. I am going to make a recommendation and maybe a little bit of an anti-recommendation of
01:04:33
Speaker
Zelda Tears of the Kingdom TikTok slash Instagram reels is either super funny or super awful. And so I've gotten cool Instagram reels of people who are building these flying contraptions or like these vehicles out from scratch in Tears of the Kingdom and then just like rolling them down hills with themselves inside and
01:04:56
Speaker
seeing what happens and that's like totally fun stuff to watch. And then I have people who are putting Koroks, these lovable little characters on a spit and using the machines to rotate the spit and they're roasting the Koroks. And I saw one that's even more
01:05:13
Speaker
awful than that, that I'm going to just kind of leave out. There are children, the one with religious, well, did it have any religious overtones? It did involve some religious symbolism. Yes. Okay. Uh, and, uh, that that's, uh, yeah, that sounds terrible. So it can be hilarious and it can be awful. And I don't know how you tune your algorithm to only get the hilarious without getting the awful. So maybe mess with it. Maybe don't, uh, depends on your sensitivities and preferences, I suppose.
01:05:41
Speaker
It is fun. So, Andrew, one of the main things, do you remember Koroks from Breath of the Wild? Are they the little leaf-looking things that would pop out from under rocks? Yeah, they're the little leaf-looking things that give you a seed, which is actually, yeah, if you find them, they give you a seed. It's a currency.
01:05:59
Speaker
In this one, there's a new mechanic with them where sometimes you'll find one who has a backpack on that's way too big and therefore he can't move. And you're supposed to use your telekinesis ability and also your ability to build ships and vehicles and stuff to get him over to his friend who has set up a campfire. And so some people are really annoyed by them.
01:06:26
Speaker
So because you can grab them with telekinesis, you can then attach them to things and also do whatever you want with them.
01:06:37
Speaker
and terrible things. They're very cute, but it is annoying sometimes. And so you've got some people who are like, oh no, I dropped you, you poor boy. And then some people who are like, I'm going to, I'm going to throw three flamethrowers and have them blast right at your face. And that's, you know, one of the tamer things I've seen. My feed is now like 50%
01:07:05
Speaker
Tears of the Kingdom videos. I guess I got to play it just to be part of the the cultural moment that this is. Yeah. Yeah. Join me. Slave to the zeitgeist. Copyright trademark me. But yeah, it's like my feed is like one third Korok torture. One third the wood choppers, right? You've told us.
01:07:29
Speaker
No. Wood choppers is so it's so December. So it's cold chopping wood. Now they're doing something else. I don't know. They're they're planting things or harvesting. I don't know. They're totally gone now. But yeah, one third Korok torture, one third like pro duplication tips, pro tips for including glitches to make you duplicate items. And then one third just like people styling. I'm talking only tales of the kingdom or tears of the kingdom video.
01:08:00
Speaker
one-third people doing it insanely like Insanely tricky stuff like because in this game you can fuse you can fuse items that you find to your weapons and shield and bow To make crazy effects. So like right you can fuse a bomb plant to your shield and
01:08:18
Speaker
and then jump and land on your shield and it makes you fly really high in the air with an explosion. That's one thing. Jason looks excited. Sounds great. I want to try it. Yeah. He got up and he walked away. He's done. He's going to do it right now. He's like, I'm going to go check this out anyway. So people use that to jump really high and then do a bunch of acrobatics on the way down and do
01:08:43
Speaker
a bunch of crazy stuff anyway uh yeah it's a fun it's a fun cultural moment to be a part of all right so both your recommendations is something involving needing to play zelda so i will do that yeah yeah okay bye bye all right i think it's time to play zelda i'll take like four more shrines before bed