Transcript
Speaker: All right, we're live. Welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. We are here. it is July 21st, 830 at night. and we're getting ready, man. We're, we're ready to rock. This is like, this is go time, go week. We're, we're starting to prep here.
Speaker: Uh, we got Patriots training camp. That's, that's kicking off on, uh, you know, kicking off on Saturday is the first public practice, which is cool. So um it's going to be a big week, man. We got, we got a lot, a lot coming.
Speaker: um I'd say the first kind of like first, you know, I'm Scott with savageboston.com here with Brett and Snooty, usual co-hosts. And again, this is, um you know, we got,
Speaker: We kind of got a lot going on now. So we have a big event that we're starting to plan. This is like ah it's nothing, nothing totally set in stone yet, but we're in the works of planning something really cool on August 20th, which we, you know, the day two of the Patriots joint practice against the Eagles.
Speaker: um So, yeah, so we got something kind of, I'd say, in the works for that. Stay tuned. That's going to be – could be a really cool show. Going to do some sort of live show. Again, nothing totally set in stone, so we're not going to promote, you know, the location or what's available, but we could have some really cool stuff and and have a really fun, like, big live show. So that's going be – look forward to something on August 20th, which, again, is day two of the Patriots-Eagles joint practices. So – uh so yeah man i'm excited to go down this saturday i want to get to camp um i'm pumped about it it's the first day on a saturday which is rare so i'm sure it's going to be it's going to be banged out man just really exciting so um i guess before we get any more specific um i guess snooty if you want to go what what do you what do you what are you most looking forward to as far as uh getting camp underway uh this might be the most me answer but honestly it's watching the o-line um
Speaker: There's still, there's a lot more depth than there has been in the past, a lot more talent as well, but there's still some questions there. Jared Wilson, it's his first year playing center.
Speaker: and know that's his natural position, but first you're playing center in the NFL. You gotta look to see how Campbell rebounds and see if he can take a big step. You wanna see the health of Morgan Moses, but I think they're gonna kind of manage him in camp. So you get to see a lot of probably Lomu, which would be interesting to see how he looks and and how he goes. Vera Tucker, I imagine he'll be kind of managed a little bit as well. So Ben Brown. But then once you get past Ben Brown, the depth on the O-line kind of really drops off, at least on the interior. um So it'll be something to see something interesting to watch to see if a couple guys emerge as a potential you know developmental pieces or some some solid depth pieces for this year. Because I have a feeling going to need that this year.
Speaker: we think about Demetrius Crownover, you got any high hopes for Crownover? know everyone's hyping him up as a player. He's obviously, like we haven't even started camp yet. I mean, people are psyched about him. I mean, he's huge, right? So he's a, every, it feels like they've always had like a huge right tackle um when McDaniels was here. So, um I mean, he's huge. He's got potential. The guys like that don't come around very often. Um, so I, I think he's got a real good shot to, to stick around. I wasn't super high on Marcus Bryant last year, but again, maybe he put in a lot of work and, you know, kind of transform some things and maybe he's a little bit smoother this year. So. Is this like Taylor Mumford or whatever? Like they could use, uh, you know, use them as a, that kind of bring in an extra tackle kind of guy or not even necessarily a swing tackle yet, but just bring them in as like an extra tackle.
Speaker: I mean, I'd like to avoid it because that can like, he's completely non-existent as a passing threat at all. Um, so I'd like to see them actually have a blocking tight end, um, or have a tight end who can block, which is why it's disappointing. Uh, it was a deep Ray started on the pup list. Um, can't make the club in the tub type of thing. So, yeah, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see, but you know, that third tackle, fourth tackle, um,
Speaker: kind of spot in some backup garden from, you know, some guard depth will be interesting to see. okay i got you And Brad just I'll kick you to you next with just this question. I was going ask that general question, but and a question in the chat here from Tay.
Speaker: Should we be worried about edge? And yeah, we're gonna I was gonna like, obviously address this later on. But yeah, man, I think you should be worried about edge. I don't I think edge is is a massive concern, especially I mean, this is this is probably the number one concern of of camp right now. I mean, this is – you know, if you have – it's a really important position, and you have Harold Landry, who was really banged up the end of last year, right? and And he starts out injured this year in camp. And I know part of this is they're just, like, managing him. But he's starting out injured in camp this year. And you got – you know, obviously Gabe Ackes is fucking MIA, dude. Where's Ackes?
Speaker: Where's he at? I mean, I was hoping, you know, I was hopeful that and suspect he should be in there this week to to sign his contract. and Hopefully get there and do it or not even sign the contract. He should be in there this week to get a physical done.
Speaker: It's like he needs to pass another physical now. So, I mean, I think that's all that's all pretty concerning. So, yeah, Brett, why don't you chime in just, I guess, generally first, what are you looking forward to with camp before we totally dive into like the edge roll stuff?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, well, those were the that was one of the items I was going to look at. What are they doing for rotation and where they place guys? Because I know Vrabel likes to move guys around on the defensive line, so I was just kind of curious to see what they do.
Speaker: Obviously, you've got Barmore and Williams who are going to be your stalwart guys, and they'll probably managed in camp, but It's really like, what do they do with a guy like Derriden? What do they do with a guy like Farmer? Can Elijah Ponder find his way onto this roster? I mean, obviously with – He's going to have to now. It's like, sure, he's probably going to have to. So what does he look like in camp, right? So that's the part that I look at with the defensive line because there's a lot of guys that are hungry, looking to try to jump in and make the 53 and be viable –
Speaker: peace So I'm curious to see where that goes. But just kind of pivoting off the defensive line, I'd say the only other thing that I'm looking at the most is really – How does Drake look with some of the new weapons? Like how in sync do they get? How quickly do they get in sync? Because I recognize there's some of the defensive line, offensive line play. There's not a lot that goes on early on and then it slowly ramps up from there. But when it comes to the, you know, the how they are in sync between the quarterbacks and wide receivers, what does that look like? You know, obviously we got to see what it looks like with Brown.
Speaker: But you're also throwing Dobbs in the mix and like real reps. and And what does that look like? How do they slot some of these guys? And just Drake's overall, how is he feeling with those guys? How comfortable is he in the offense? Because this is when he really needs to take that next step forward of really commanding the offense and having these new weapons. What does that look like? How in sync do those guys look? from the offensive side. So I would say overall, those are the two things I look at defensive line, who's stepping up with what we're dealing with, with Landry and Yakis, and then offense.
Speaker: What does Drake look like with the new weapons? Yeah, I mean, as bryson ah Bryson in the chat has alluded to here, our friend Bryson, you know, he thinks May will probably look pretty good, probably look better with the good weapons, you know. And I expect, I mean, in all honesty, the already the hype coming out of OTAs and stuff where that,
Speaker: Yeah, he looks he looks awesome. Like, he already looks great. He looks in control. He's the leader. He's he's all that stuff you want. he's your He's your franchise, man. He's the guy. He carries the most juice.
Speaker: You know what i mean? and It's going to be all eyes on him come training camp and should be pretty exciting. I think people are like, don't understand what it's going to be like to have a number one wide receiver again.
Speaker: And I don't even mean from like ah production standpoint, but just having someone who lines up that you have to fear. And I think like you have to fear AJ Brown.
Speaker: You know, that's that's a guy you have. You have to plan for AJ Brown. Like you have to fear AJ Brown. You know, I think I think he's going be dynamic. Right. So I'm really excited about that.
Speaker: um think Bryson makes another great point here where he says it's the first time he's having the same offensive coordinator two years in a row. I think since high school, like it's been a long time since he's had that.
Speaker: Yeah, and I hope hope it continues for for many more years. i don't you know Again, I don't and don't think Josh is – I don't think he's going anywhere. I think he wants to live here. i know people try to, for some reason, have the narrative that he's going to leave every single offseason.
Speaker: I don't know until he someday decides that he wants to be a head coach again, which maybe he maybe he doesn't want to be. But I'm happy to have him, and and I think he's a ah great OC, and I think he'll be great with Drake this year. They they should be outstanding. so And then like I said, just what does Drake's command look like with the offense, and what kind of leash does Josh start to give him? Now, I get it. We're not going to know that in camp.
Speaker: It's going to come out of it, and what is it what does it look like early on? But if you think through last year – it was one of those areas where he was somewhat conservative on his play call and where Drake got really dynamic is when he started rolling out of the pocket and creating guys open and just making crazy throws.
Speaker: So it's, can we start to do that a little bit more? Not that I want it to be a scrambling quarterback. I don't, but can you create a rolling pocket at times to get him out there and be versatile?
Speaker: Right. And, Also, just sort of schematically, what do they do with guys moving around and stuff? How do they line them up? How much control does Drake have to change things and audible at the line of scrimmage? These are all the areas where I look at and say, again, year three. Yeah, it's year two with McDaniels. It's year three for Drake in the league. What does he look like?
Speaker: commanding the pocket? How does he look in those situations? Because he really looked like awesome down the stretch, which is having a grasp of what needed to get done. But it just it felt like there was still very conservative on the play calling. So i'm hoping getting a guy like AJ Brown that helps to slot everyone and then giving Drake May another year in the system, they start opening it up. And and what does he look like when they start opening up? Is he able to adapt quickly or is he struggling?
Speaker: Yeah, we got a comment here from guy I haven't seen it here, so it's nice to new new guy. Pat's pat's Pacer fan. ah Thoughts on Seattle versus New England? And I know obviously like, you know, it's 50 days away, right? It's exactly 50 days away. it's It's far off. But I saw there was some commentary on Twitter ah from Brett Patz, who we're friends with. i like Brett Patz. He was just saying that you know, week one doesn't matter or week one shouldn't matter. And like, I understand what he's saying. Like that week one can be random, right? Like week one can be, anything can happen week one, right? That's what he's saying.
Speaker: But in reality, if you're, if you're telling me if the Patriots go in and they beat the Seahawks, you're not going to put stock in that. You what mean? Like, like, like what would that mean to you if that happens?
Speaker: Right. I would be shocked. Honestly, i don't i don't think we will win that game 50 days out. now Obviously, shit could change as we get closer, but I'm expecting us...
Speaker: Here's what I said the last time, and and I haven't changed my stance. Like, I want to be representable. Like, we looked so inept offensively against the Seahawks that I want to show that our offense can be representable. And the reason why I think Seattle's going to have the advantage is because, really, early on, advantage goes to the defense in the NFL.
Speaker: it's an ah It's a game where it's going to take some time to get the offense up and running. And like I said, we got a lot of new pieces going through this team that we got to try to adapt. Snooty talked about the offensive line. We already touched upon wide receivers. We still got to go through look what's going to happen with the tight ends, right? There's a number of things that are different.
Speaker: I know the defense changed a little bit on Seattle, but they still got their core, and it's still like they're going to be able to scheme it up. So I think advantage Seattle, I just want to make sure that the offense comes out and represents themselves. But you ask me today, i think we lose. I mean, I think it's close, but I think we lose.
Speaker: I actually think I have them winning week one. and don't know why. um I just feel like – Can't believe. Can't believe. I just feel like that's the type of game where, you know, Vrabel's going to make sure that, like, you show up and you show out, and I think they're going to be pissed off. um And I think there's a chance that there could be a little bit of a – usually it's the loser that has a super bowl hangover but there might be a little bit of uh you know reading their own press clippings type of thing coming out that first week i mean they did yeah joe joe brings up a good point too like uh joe uh joe in the chat from lg pat's pod just says seahawks got a lot worse and we got a lot better
Speaker: And yeah, I think, you know, I tend to agree. I think, I don't know if the Seahawks got like, i wouldn't say a lot worse. Like, I don't think I would call them. I think their D line is still excellent. Excellent.
Speaker: And I think they lost like what boy, a mafia and you know what i mean? Like, like they got a little worse. I don't, I don't think, I think that defense with Mike McDonald, I think is very, very good.
Speaker: And I think, and again, not and all jokes aside, they're very, very good. He is an excellent defensive coach. Yeah. They lost Kenneth Walker, but like, again, I'm talking defense, man. Like you couldn't, you couldn't figure, you couldn't figure shit out last year, dude. Like that defense, it's not just the personnel though. It's like the scheme.
Speaker: and how they operate. Like, I can't compliment Mike McDonald enough, man, because he's like, he just runs an incredibly tricky scheme. And like, you know, you know, they're just, they're complex how he rushes. Like I've watched his own video breakdowns, like how he, how he frames him in. He's a great DC. He's a great head coach. Like I like what he does. I'm interested. i don't know if their offense is going to be as good. And then I think like, again, if they have Darnold, with no Kenneth Walker and they've lost Clint Kubiak. Like, yeah, that, that, that can make a difference to me. So like, maybe you have a low scoring first night, maybe you can eek one out because the Patriots,
Speaker: have more talent. So I think there's, there's, there's some ability there for the Patriots. I just, again, like can't compliment Mike McDonald enough. think guy's nasty. He's a great defensive coach.
Speaker: You know what I mean? Like, i don't know. Again, can't compliment enough. I think he's really good. Yeah. Not afraid at all of Sam Darnold, but I do very much respect the Seahawks defense. It just says like a football fan.
Speaker: I like their defense watching wise. I think they're just, they're just nasty, man. They're one of the best players. They're one of the, this is why people shouldn't have been surprised the Patriots had trouble. They were one of the highest DVO, DVO teams in history last year in the Superbowl.
Speaker: They were a nasty team, nasty. So I think people, you know, it was a mismatch last year, unfortunately, which, which sucked. So, you know, whatever, but.
Speaker: yeah I don't know. I don't put a ton of stock in Kenneth Walker. going and i mean Obviously, he he looked great against us, but I still... Running backs are ah indicated of the system, right? What does your offensive line look like? How does that carry? I don't think it's going to be a huge loss for them on that side.
Speaker: So, again, I still think Seattle's the better team on paper. And, yeah, I think we got a lot better, but I don't know. Like, we haven't been able to put them all together. So we'll see.
Speaker: What do you think ultimately happens with Gabe Ackes? You guys have an opinion on that? I think he's going to sign. um think he'll probably have an underwhelming rookie season, depending upon how you kind of what your expectations were for his rookie season. um They have a long history of if it doesn't, you know,
Speaker: If you don't start well, it doesn't really end well for a rookie, which is unfortunate because I think he's the type of guy that I know Bedards of the world say it's foolish to think you're going to get anything from him first year. which I think he's a foolish statement, but um I think it's, you know, you could definitely get a pretty immediate impact to some degree or another from that type of player at that type of position. And I think it's disappointing that you're not going to get that from him.
Speaker: I had pretty high expectations going in. And I know again, like I figured who it was. Was it, um was it Bedard that, yeah and I don't want to just sit here and trash Bedard again, but it was like, you can't have any expectations of him coming in to make an impact. And I can't, I can't can disagree more.
Speaker: I feel like you should be, i think Breer said tonight that that they thought he was going to be like a a contributing rotational player. and And I agree. I think he was going to get serious time and be um be impactful.
Speaker: so um So, yeah, I mean, that's still what I'm hoping for. But he needs to get his ass in the fucking building. Like, go go do your physical. I was hoping he was there today. i don't know, like, i don't know what he's doing. I know his agents have a history of doing this with players. They make them, like, wait it out, whatever. Like, you know, there' there's some interesting history there. But I don't know. You got to, like – You gotta get them. You gotta get them in, man, get them in the building, sign the fucking contract and and let's go, man. You can't miss this kind of time. Snooty, you could tell them how impactful camp is as a rookie. Like how, how far behind it can act us get here.
Speaker: i I mean, you can't get behind because then you never really get a chance to catch up. It's always hard. You see it every year with rookies. um It's hard to maintain, much less catch up. Right. And I know he's a little bit more of an experienced kind of player, but.
Speaker: Even still, it's a new system. He will still be fighting for reps. There are still players on the roster that will be fighting tooth and nail to stay on the roster. um you know And it's a new scheme for him. It's a new coaching staff. like You have to earn that level of trust and respect, and you can't do that.
Speaker: in you know He's not even in the tub. He's he's he's not even in the building. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's beyond frustrating. I just i can't understand...
Speaker: how they did not see the fact that this was going to happen when they drafted the guy, like did not understand the, the injury situation and that the surgery would go down. Like none of it makes sense to me that it happened the way it happened. And now it's like, they're probably negotiating the guarantees. And the whole thing I just look at and say, who fucked up, right? Because you clearly, you picked a guy that high And you go through and you you're still a lot of things up in the air. And I get it. They're they're tight over there. So we're not getting much leak coming out of it at all. But it's just not good. And then we didn't really do much to address the defensive line in the offseason. So we'll see if someone slides out. You maybe get a veteran that you could throw in.
Speaker: But this is a huge problem. I mean, we struggled last year to generate pressure. And when Milton Williams went down, it was glaringly bad. We couldn't stop the run.
Speaker: We couldn't generate pressure on top of it. And our defense just really fell off a cliff. So if we cannot get our defensive line shored up, we're in trouble. And so we'll see. I'm hopeful, like you said, that Landry's going on the pup is more from a protective standpoint, but like not good.
Speaker: And then we'll Obviously, Yakis, like nowhere in sight. It's not like we're hearing rumors about their negotiating or at least he's showing up, but they're just going through the contracts. Like he's just not even there. So what what are we doing? Like what's the plan here to help in this position where you're going to have to rotate guys in?
Speaker: you need guys like Yakis to be an available option. If he's not going to be there, like – What the fuck are we going to do? So I look it and say, yes, I think he's going to sign, but this needs to come to a closure sooner rather than later.
Speaker: I'd also argue we need to be looking and shopping to see if any vet slides out from camp, and then we can try to snatch someone up there where they're on the back end of the career, but they could give us a third down rep that might mean something like a Bosa.
Speaker: I mean, there's, yeah, like you said, Joey Bosa, he's still out there. I mean, there's, right, he hasn't signed yet, right? don't think he's signed. There's guys waiting for training camp. What? Isn't he contemplating retirement? He might be, but there's guys waiting for training camp. Like, even, like, Diggs is going to wait to, like, sign and camp, right, because he's going to see who needs him the most.
Speaker: You know what i mean? And so I think that's the Yakis or Akis situation, you know, to chronicle simply, this is the simplest way to do it. They evaluate the player player in whatever, February, right? They evaluate the player.
Speaker: They really like the player. They do a physical. He's good. Okay. We accept the risk. We draft the player. Now at some point in the round, either after the draft, before the, like at some point around that time, he has a knee scope.
Speaker: Now, One of two things happened. Either the Patriots didn't know about the knee scope, which hasn't been reported and would be ridiculous if he hid a scope. That almost feels impossible. So I think that's unlikely. the other The other situation could have been, hey, we don't think you should get the knee scope.
Speaker: Okay, so it's it's one of those it's one of those two things, right? either didn't think he should get the knee scope or he didn't tell him he was getting a knee scope. But long story short, he got a knee scope and the team's not happy about it. So that they don't want to guarantee his contract, right? They don't want to guarantee his money and his contract. They're so unhappy about it and they don't trust it. So that tells you all you need to know. If they knew he needed this stuff, they would still guarantee it. But the fact that they drafted him at 55 overall and won't guarantee it,
Speaker: is is crazy. So obviously there was some large problem or miscommunication there. And I do think it's a big deal. I think it's ridiculous that that went South in that way. Hopefully it gets clarified at some point, but all I know is it's radio silence there.
Speaker: Either Ackes' camp is really tight. His agent's tight. There's barely any reporting. it was only Reese who had the info that he had a scope done.
Speaker: And it's contract language that's holding this up. So that's what's going on with Akis. But at this point now, he looks like he's running, cutting everything. Get him in the building.
Speaker: Have him sign the deal. That's all I'm saying. like Get him in. He needs to pass a physical, though. Um, all right. Enough on the ACUS tangent. Cause that's just, people are getting frustrated with that one. And I, yeah I hear you. I think it's ridiculous. Um, common here. Another one from Tay, um, AJ, uh, Romeo dubs, Kyle Williams, do dubs, Dobbs, Kyle Williams, Matt Collins, the only locks at wide receiver question mark.
Speaker: Um, i was Yeah, pretty pretty much. I mean, those those four and then like booties probably going to be dealt still. I think that's still probably likely is during camp he gets traded unless they just can't find a dance partner, um which at that point, like you should be able to do a late round swap if you really want to get rid of the player.
Speaker: i think Efton Chisholm will probably make the roster. There's another undrafted guy. um Who am I missing? Am I missing somebody? Bob. Oh, pop Douglas. I think pop makes the roster. Um, I think, I mean, a lock is strong lock. When someone says it's a lock, that means there's no chance. They're not on the roster, right? Like AJ Brown is a lock Kyle Williams year two. He's a lock Matt Collins. I think is a lock.
Speaker: You wrote me a dubs. You just paid. He's a lot like those are true locks. So like, um, booty is absolutely not a lock. Pop Douglas is not a lock captain. Chisholm's not a lock. So, um, anyway,
Speaker: Gone on too long. So wait give me your thoughts. You guys, give me your thoughts on the wide receiver room. And, um you know, do you think Booty still gets dealt? I think Booty's dealt. The only way he's not is if someone gets hurt.
Speaker: I think that's probably ultimately the best and case scenario for everybody is to wait into camp to see if not too far, but to see if someone else gets hurt somewhere else. And then all of a sudden someone's willing to meet, you know, give up some type of asset form. Or if someone here, hopefully not knock on wood gets hurt. um And then all of a sudden his play style, you know, his ah play opportunities will be there.
Speaker: um I think they're trying to do right by him by, you know, trying to move him to give him a best shot to get a contract. Cause remember he's sixth round guy, so he hasn't really been paid yet. um So I think they're going to try to do right by him, but they also have to protect themselves, right? Like it's, he's has a rapport with, with may he's proven he can do something. He's not useless by any means. So they have to be careful to you know, to move him, but they have to protect themselves as well.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I agree. Those are the four locks. um And they they serve different roles in the offense. So that's why I think they're they're guarantees. I think Pop is is a bubble guy. i wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily say he's in.
Speaker: He's just one of those guys where Yeah, he's he's been he's been useful at times, but like he can't get on the field consistently. like He's had some blunders.
Speaker: He's another like undrafted guy. that like I could see someone jumping over the top of him. I think Chisholm makes it because the special teams side of it, so that's probably where it goes. and And then we'll see what happens with other positions. Ultimately, I agree with you, Snooty, but offensive booty. They're trying to do right by the player, find him a home. He just kind of – it's basically redundant and it doesn't make sense to do that. And he's ultimately, it's going to become a problem if you keep him around because you're taking away reps from a guy that's on a contract. You're trying to get that next big contract. And you're right, coming in as a six round draft pick.
Speaker: he's gonna wanna get paid and he's gonna want his opportunity. I think he's deserved it too. So I'd like to see him go and be put in a bad good spot outside of AFC and then, you know, see what happens. I don't expect much out of it. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened to this point, but I'm sure all other rosters are looking at the same way. Whereas,
Speaker: you know, what does our rosters look like? Where did our depth chart happen? And like, these are the ones that always get traded like week three, you know, week three of the off season and preseason is when it's all starts happening.
Speaker: Yeah. But this could go like member Jabril Peppers. We were sitting here last season and we're like, I think we had Doug Kite on and we're like, Hey, this is, um this is redundant with like, we asked him about safeties. We're like, is it redundant here with Doug or, and peppers and he's like, yeah, you know, good point.
Speaker: You know, maybe something happens. Well, they ended up getting rid of both players. Do know what I mean? Like, like, like that was like, Whoa, like, okay. That was, that was interesting. Like when they really don't want a player or a player type, they they'll get rid of them quick. Like variable ableable doesn't want to fuck around.
Speaker: I'm I'm I wonder like, does pop Douglas get that second, get a second contract? Like, what does that look like? you know, like i like pop. I think he's a good, you know, kind of good deep threat change up guy. um You know, he didn't develop his like intermediate game as everyone wanted, kind of, they wanted him to be the perfect Edelman-ish replacement and just hasn't gone as well as everyone wanted. So like, he's certainly not going to be getting any
Speaker: large contract, but I just, cause he's going away. He's in a year five as well, are year year four. He's in his last year of his deal, correct? Yes. Year four.
Speaker: Year four. So, right. So he's only a year four. So, I mean, Snooty, what happens there? Do they, do they pay him? They let him walk? Like where does what happens to Poff? I think he would have to explode this year to have any chance of getting a meaningful payday.
Speaker: um I'm not up on what the free agent class for wide receivers is next year, but I don't think it really matters. I don't think he's done enough to really merit a huge payday. He could get something here if he shows that he's got a good year. he shows some return capability.
Speaker: He learns how to fucking read his own. And, um you know, he gets a little bit more consistent. But that's a deep room. So, again, unless there's some type of injury that opens up some possibilities, like he's just not this the slot catching, you know, break, couple tackles and go guy. He just isn't. For whatever reason, it just hasn't worked to this point. mean, let me just – just to clarify. So, going into week three, his his production has actually declined.
Speaker: um which is interesting. His average depth of target has went up, so he's absolutely not a shallow threat at all. His ADOT is 9.9, right? Like, which is interesting. So he's absolutely not a short target guy. But again, let's let's do the guess the stats game.
Speaker: You know, like, how many receptions and yards do you think he had last year?
Speaker: Give guess. Wild guess. 35 receptions for oh of for 400 yards? Yeah, because you remember. We did this before, and you remember this shit. I'm telling you. You remember. Because you're too close to not remember. Because his receptions were only at 31 catches for 447 yards.
Speaker: Right? yeah So, like, that's not a guy who gets a contract, really. Like, if anything, he could get, like, a really – Or a small contract? you know like I don't know. Maybe they get him on really short money.
Speaker: um But yeah, like that's again, those kind of stats, man, that's not a guy who's going – unless he explodes this year, but he won't. There's too many cooks in the kitchen. I think Kyle Williams is going to take a lot of that production too. You know what I mean? So question here from Paperwaves. just want to go over really quick. Any undrafted free agents you're interested in this early – My UDFA blog drops this week. I'm big on Kyle Dixon, Miles Montgomery, Tanner Arkin, Peter Manua, Khalil Jacobs. um
Speaker: i've I've heard a lot of hype train already. By the way, Paper Waves, always welcome to have you on SavageBoston.com to write articles. Anytime, buddy. you're You're welcome to get published on there. We'd love to have you. That aside, um Kyle Dixon, you know wide receiver. right i can't you It's hard to put – he'll probably be a practice squad guy.
Speaker: It'd be interesting if he cracks the roster, that'd be interesting. And Tanner Arkin is the guy that for everyone apparently is in love with. um I don't know. We haven't even started camp yet, but Tanner Arkin, I've read in almost every single undrafted free agent article that he's going to be the guy to watch out and he's going to make the roster this year as like a tight end depth. So um did you guys have any thoughts on the undrafted free agents, anything like that yet?
Speaker: I think the running back Montgomery probably has the best shot to make it. And that's just based upon the running backs on the roster. And everybody loves land Larrison stuff. But yeah, mean he hasn't got that.
Speaker: That's like he got hurt last year. Who fucking knows what's going to happen? Right. Like. Who knows? I think that's probably most likely where you're going to see, at least to me, um unless someone obviously they have to pop in camp. But that's I think that's more likely where it's going to come from.
Speaker: Yeah. you have any thoughts on that, Brett? Here's my thought when we start talking about undrafted free agents or guys like that. We are not good enough yet to be talking about undrafted free agents. We have way too many issues at the top end of the roster to get down into those weeds. So while I can appreciate it and understand the the conversation, for me personally, i just look at it and say, we got to figure out our fucking defensive line.
Speaker: We got to sign our top cornerback. you know We got to try to make sure that things look good from a tight end perspective, which we haven't touched on. like There are real issues with the roster that I focus on more so than these guys that are just coming in that are going to be journeyman death pieces, practice players. like They're just not going to be impacted. I hear you. i would argue, though, in some way that almost like the better the team is,
Speaker: ah i feel like the better the team is, the less you focus on those undrafted guys. Cause it's like a, like, like we weren't, we were barely had to focus on that when Brady was running, you know what and I mean? When they were rolling, we were barely talking about undrafted guys. You know what I mean? Other than a few like rare cases, but like when they suck somehow we're like, really in on every single undrafted free agent.
Speaker: We are hoping you get like a diamond in the rough. Yeah, diamond in the rough player. You only got so many bullets in the chamber to you know try to get guys every year. So you're trying to draft guys. You're picking up undrafteds. You're doing what you can from the free agency. So you're hoping you get someone that just surprises you out of nowhere. Like last year going through and drafting a guy like Woodson, I don't think any of us thought he was going to be the player he was.
Speaker: year one as a free safety its great it a huge hole that we had on the roster and we're all like with great this is fucking amazing but that's like it's a rarity that that's going to happen and that guy was drafted in a relatively high position right he was like fourth round pick i think so ah you get to these undrafted guys i look at and say yeah i just show me the examples where these guys become impactful players on a roster that is going to happen here.
Speaker: Like I just don't see it. So I look at it and say it's it could be a fun topic, but for me personally, we're just not there yet to go in the weeds. Gotcha. um Yeah, i would say – I mean so Tanner Arkin is a guy that I think they're just bringing up because he was starting with – he was on with some of the starters and OTAs, and he's a tight end.
Speaker: So they're like, all right, we need another – You know, we need another tight end guy. And, you know, Hunter Henry this year we've touched on. We're just not sure what you're going to get from him He's kind of declined a little bit. And we're just hoping you have a huge, a huge kind of upswing from Eli Raritan. That's the hope as a rookie.
Speaker: um But, I mean, we you know, we don't know. You just don't know yet. We've got to get in the door. You know, that's why we're waiting for training camp. We're waiting for – again, I'm going down Saturday. I'm i'm stoked about it because I just want to get your eyes on the field and and be with the peeps. and And, you know, I think the whole community of it is awesome, and I'm excited for it. But, you know, yeah, I think i think you're going to feel a difference this year in in just – vibes at the top of the wide receiver room, I think is one thing, you know, like digs. Yeah. Digs brought some, some juice for certain.
Speaker: um But like AJ Brown's different. And I think Romeo Dobbs going be bigger and stronger than people are giving him credit for. Like he's just ah he's just a bigger guy.
Speaker: and I don wanted to touch on quick, eye like Christian Gonzalez contract. um They had him talked about that on with, in rap report on nfl insiders today um saying that basically it's kind of everything we've all been saying for months basically it's like exactly what everyone's been saying is that he's he's kind of like log jammed with devin witherspoon because they have the same agent and um rap she kind of made a little more clear and put it in a way that he said that you know
Speaker: basically Gonzalez is waiting for Witherspoon. That's what he made it sound like like. Gonzo will be getting the bigger deal and will be signing it after. you know He'll be doing it after Witherspoon. and That's what it sounded like. so Did you guys have any thoughts on the Christian Gonzalez contract situation?
Speaker: i mean I just think it's interesting. the only reason's Part of the reason why I think it's going as long as it is is simply because they have the same agent. right so Yeah. yeah um That makes suck, actually.
Speaker: Yeah, it does for the team. Right. Because like, I'm sure I've seen people be like, oh, why wouldn't they want to sign him earlier? I'm sure they did want to sign him earlier. But, yeah you know, if he's not going to negotiate, if he wants to, you know, if there's an understanding that it's going to be at a certain level, then.
Speaker: I mean, honestly, what's the difference? Like if you're going to wait for him to sign, who cares? The the difference between what Witherspoon gets and what Gonzalez gets is probably going to relatively speaking, fairly minimal, um particularly from like a cap, you know, cash management standpoint. So we said Witherspoon is going to get about 30. That's what they're offering him upwards of 30. think that's the rap sheet said for Witherspoon. I don't think they're paying Witherspoon the new high of the market. Like he's not going to set the market, but Gonzo is going to be potentially setting the market.
Speaker: You know, he'll be he'll be ahead by one or two million ahead of Witherspoon because he's more prototypical corner, a little faster, rangier, longer, smoother. You know, Witherspoon's a fantastic corner. He's a little smaller and more physical.
Speaker: So I think they're just telling you that Gonzo is probably going to get a more expensive, more expensive deal. Right, but but that's the point. So like you say like a million to more, it might not even be that much. But like, yeah in the grand scheme of things, it's not that, you know what i mean? Like you're not talking 20 and 30, you're talking 30 and 29 or 30 and 31. Like still a huge contract for a deserving player.
Speaker: That's very much an important part of this team. So i'm just I'll be very, very happy to see them get it done. um because I'd like to have that locked up. And then you can't, again, you can't be a draft and develop team and not pay the the talent that you draft and develop.
Speaker: They're going to pay him. You know, I think people, it's weird that people are like, get people are just nervous in general, but like, they're going to pay the player. He's getting paid. You know, again, I've heard for a while the deal's doing fine and there should be fine. It's just like,
Speaker: Again, it's the agent problem. Like, and he might tell his agent, like, I want to be in camp. Like, I want to play. And then his agent's like, all right, hold on. Just wait. Just wait. Just wait. You know, his agent's trying to eke out every fucking dollar.
Speaker: But, but yeah, like, you know, this is he wants to play. think all these guys, they don't, they don't do this to sit out. Like they want to be in camp. I mean even with Ackes, dude, like,
Speaker: I bet he wants to play, you know, it just got fucked up. I don't, he got some bad advice or his medical people disagreed with the Patriots medical people. Right. But like, and think he wants to play too. Everyone wants to get on the field and play. So, um you know, i think it's a positive sign though, that rap sheets bringing it up because that just means it's close.
Speaker: So to me, I look at that and say, they're probably close to getting it done, especially now that they're they're heading into camp. So it's like the timing makes sense and they're going through all who are the players that are left unsigned that are big name players. And from the cornerback position, those are the two guys. And yeah, it's, it's annoying that that's because they have the same agent. It's probably would have been signed sooner, but not Not necessarily because whether it's the same agent or two separate agents, they're both looking at the market and basically saying who's going to sign and in Gonzo's case, are you going to be the guy that resets the market?
Speaker: At the end of it all, I do think yes, he does get signed. I think it probably is going to happen within the next two weeks just because it's just coming more and more to a head. and And you're right. These guys want to be in camp. like You can't imagine like Gonzo is going to want to be there.
Speaker: He's going to want to be the leader out there. he's he's clearly like one of the best players our entire team fits in really well with the system. Like he's going to want to be out there to with his guys. Right. And then you got to get like Yakis coming in. It's like.
Speaker: He's probably dreamed about playing in the NFL since he was freaking like eight years old, and he finally gets there. It's not like he's going to want to sit out and be like, well, you know, it's it's really down to the contract side of it, yada, yada, yada. I think he's getting the advice from his agents. Like I said, it's it's probably on the guarantees, but these guys want to play. And so when it comes to Gonzo, I think it's close just because – timing of everything and and rap doesn't say things unless it's like pretty much there.
Speaker: So if rap sheet saying it, I think it's happening soon. Yeah, I agree. think it's probably happening. I'll play like by next week or something. Yeah, and I think you should, you obviously the Witherspoon news would be a huge piece of it, but if you start to see his agent in town one day, like that's usually a pretty good sign that they're hammering out the final details of a deal.
Speaker: um Witherspoon's agent? Were you saying he was in town? No, no, no, I'm saying once once you see them in town, that's kind of when you can be like, you know what? Like, it's obviously – it's on the goal line here.
Speaker: Well, I had seen Akis was in Boston like a week or two ago on Instagram, and I was like, all right, hopefully he's in there hammering it out. But i don't know if they're saying like – Wait to do your physical, you know, that's the problem. Like we don't have this info. and Really no one has this info because no one's reporting on this. Like we're all dying for the info on this situation. Like where's the fucking intel? Even from guys with so like guys with good sources. Like the only one who's dug up anything was Reese.
Speaker: The only one. It's likely what it is, is he had some type of knee injury that either didn't disclose, which would be horrible. Or yeah again, like you said earlier, that there's some type of, it's worse than it We did the surgery and they didn't want him to do, you know, so something like that. And then as a result, they're saying they want language in his contract that protects them against an injury. And he's like, that's not standard contract. Like, we don't want to set the precedent we don't want to do that like stuff like that it's it's bullshit like that that it'll get hammered out at some point it's just a matter of how and when and yeah like i think paper waves makes a great point here the benefit of camp is now they got to be more present and
Speaker: speak to reporters like every day that we walk in off the field on the field post camp and asking questions. So I think this is something where when you start getting to that side of it, more things start to pop because there's more pressure to get answers and they can't just be kind of kicking it down, kicking down. I get it. Like they're going to,
Speaker: basically say the standard lines, but because there's more pressure and more visibility, they're going to want to get some closure on this sooner rather than later. And again, players aren't going to want to hear it either. It just becomes a distraction and no coach, no organization, no players want to deal with distractions.
Speaker: Yeah. i mean, again, I, I, I just think, again, yeah, paper waves commenting on, that they have medical staff checks everyone for the draft. I'm like, yes, that's, that's true.
Speaker: But then something again, just to repeat the point, like something happened after they drafted him, right? Like so something happened. He got a surgery done that they didn't want him to do right after they already did the physical. So they're like, all right, well, what the fuck? Like, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're not gonna fully guarantee this deal because he just had a surgery. And then it's like, it's, it's literally a contract dispute problem. It just is not how it should go.
Speaker: with your second round pick you traded up for, right? like Like, this is a guy, you need this guy. And I think Vrabel is, I'm sure, beside himself. You know, like he he wants this dude on the field and now, you know, Landry's gonna sit out all fucking camp.
Speaker: God knows what you're gonna get get from him. What do you expect from Harold Landry this year? I have no i idea. Not much, to be honest. He should've been shut down last year. He shouldn't have even been in the Super Bowl.
Speaker: How many games does Landry end up playing, you know? He played like nothing in the in the in the postseason there. yeah And that's an example of Vrabel kind of being loyal to a fault. It's like, you know, I get it. You want a guy to play in a Super Bowl type of thing. But like he couldn't fucking move.
Speaker: He couldn't do anything. Yeah. I think it hurts. He was toast, man. So, um yeah, I agree. I think it's weird. I think the whole situation is really weird and I think it's, it's been bizarre. I think Landry has played a lot of football and he was a guy that would love for him to be healthy and contribute, but it's maybe not, you know, I think his best might be past him. We'll see. We'll see how effective can he just be a a specialist.
Speaker: third down guy, but like, you just got to get better at that position. That's like one of your biggest holes in the roster. They don't need all stars there, but like you need good solid players there. And I think Akis can be that he can be a solid player.
Speaker: You know, is he going to come out be a 10 sack guy year one? Probably not, but can he be a really good physical player? yeah absolutely. you know I mean, another guy we haven't talked about much is Dermont Jones, the guy we signed for free agency this past year. yep Yeah. Paid him good money.
Speaker: So, again, and another guy you look for in camp, like, what does he look like? Because you're right. I mean, we we can't sit there and rely on a guy like Landry. to be able to be there in the end. Like you got to manage that guy. Even when he comes off the pop, you got to manage that guy.
Speaker: And he wore down as the season went on. Same happened with chase on like the guys wore down. Like you got to rotate these guys out. So I look at a guy like Draymond Jones, like what does that guy look like in camp and how do we get out of him? So there's some interesting pieces on the defensive line and and even some on the linebacker. So,
Speaker: That's the part where I look at where i'm I'm just curious to see how those guys look and how they position them, who rotates and slides. Because like i said, Rabel likes to move a lot of guys on the offensive line. I mean, Bonmore slides out to the edge at times or or slides in.
Speaker: uh inside so it's one of those areas where it'd be curious to see how those guys are utilized and who's getting the reps but i just think it's it's one of the most intriguing groups that we're going into camp that we have to watch i think draymond jones is is a solid player you know he's he's solid i don't think he's uh I don't think he's an incredible player. I think he's, he's solid. be Like he's had a few, I mean, if you're just going by, you know, PFF grades, it's, it's, you know, he generated a decent amount of pressures last year, which is, which is what you want, right? You need guys. And he was like 25th out of a hundred and whatever in pressures generated, which according to PFF, that's, that's solid. That's, that's not a bad season. He's just not,
Speaker: He's a journeyman in some sense. This is his, I think I mean, it's like fourth team, yeah but his pass rush grades like still hold up. um So, I mean, that's what you get.
Speaker: You know what i mean? It's not like you're getting a guy with, um you know, crazy pass rush metrics, but is a guy that can rush the passer and can be effective. He's a bit stockier.
Speaker: he He feels like a variable guy. You know, and I think he'll be a ah Patriot that people like, I think he'll be good, but you need someone on the opposite side. Who's going to rush with them.
Speaker: You know, who's going to team up with him. Who's going to be really effective. So, um so yeah, that's kind of a, you know, I think he'll be solid. So anything else you guys want to touch on tonight for our first, first one before, or sorry, our last one before training camp begins.
Speaker: I mean, i know we've kind of been talking about it that you wouldn't – I don't know if you'd agree with this point you was listening listening to the first part of the podcast, but I'd like to take a step step back and kind of realize, like, how much better this roster is than it has been in the last couple years.
Speaker: Like, we're talking about depth at the end and interior O-line and things like that, whereas last year, were like, the last couple years we were like – ugh, like this roster is pretty fucking ugly, like right? Like we were looking for a quarterback, we looking for a receiver, we were looking for tackles, plural. We were looking for everything.
Speaker: And I think it's just really nice to finally come back. It's it's good to be back to coming into camp and say, like, all right, we're in a decent spot here. Like the roster is in a pretty decent spot.
Speaker: yeah ah I 100% agree, but I also love the fact that we're still like underdogs here coming in. you know Super bowl contending team, but we still get the weakest schedule talk. We still get bad disrespect for Drake May because you know whatever. The guy's only year two and, again, weak schedule. and even Even today, FS1, they were talking about Drake's record versus top teams, like teams over 500. I just look at all of it and I say – good i want to be put in that position where we stay hungry and we're always considered the underdogs and then shut everyone up and come out there and just win it and so i i'm i'm psyched because i feel like it's a perfect spot to be in there's guys that are hungry we're up and coming i i really like the way rabel has attacked this roster build the guys he's getting in and the approach we have as a team and
Speaker: like nothing for nothing. I know the, the socks are on the most crazy run ever, but we've just been hungry for something to actually come out of us. And it's exciting to have the Patriots coming back because we've just been so disappointed for the last like six months,
Speaker: since the Super Bowl ended, like just one shitty end to another. And now it's finally like, okay, let's go. Let's gear up. We're the underdogs. Great. Let's fucking go prove it right. Well, you'll actually have football to talk about on-field football, which will be exciting. weird Every year I always try to appreciate the season when we have downtime.
Speaker: yeah i think, again, June is typically like the worst downtime-wise. And, again, you always want to just appreciate it. Just just for the last question here, someone spedta said, what do you think the plan is for Karan, Pronti, and Kobe Miner?
Speaker: You know, again,
Speaker: front i just don't – first of all, don't know what you have with Pronti. I got to watch Pronti play. you know I mean? Kobe Miner, we'll see. But this is like – again, these are down deep. depth chart guys right now, like, yeah, if Prunty, you know, if Prunty stays on the team plays well, great. You need depth. You need depth there, corner. I don't know who's moving to safety. You know what I mean? Like, we got to watch these guys. Like, this is like, they're going to get down to the 53.
Speaker: And let's see who's on it, right? Because there's going a lot of these UDFA guys that you guys like, like Kyle Dixon, that wide receiver. Everyone's like, oh, man, Dixon, he's going to be – he might be a camp darling, but, like, don't know. Is he going to be six guys? Is he going be a guy that gets stashed from the practice squad? Like, I don't know. And what if F.C. Chisholm just rips it up all camp? And then we've got to be like, hey, we need to get Chisholm the ball.
Speaker: You know, like, let's see. Right. But there's, this is the stuff where it's like the nitty gritty, uh, training camp stuff that people, um, talk about it every year. And again, like at some point we gotta, we gotta see it on the field.
Speaker: That's all I'm saying. at some point you gotta to see it on the field that's what i'm excited to see on Saturday. And whoever's down there, I'll see you guys down there. I'm excited to go and and we'll catch you there. So i appreciate you guys tuning in to the podcast and we will catch you next week. Peace.
Speaker: yes
