Transcript
Speaker: All right, we're live. Welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. We are here 830 at night on September 8th. And we are one day before the Patriots actually play football, which is awesome. It's been a long offseason, way too long.
Speaker: And obviously psyched to have real football back. It's been a pretty big week. um Obviously a big week, of especially highlighted by the Christian Gonzalez extension that got announced wicked early in the morning. I mean, 2 a.m., 1 a.m. m i was dead asleep.
Speaker: No idea. Woke up at 6 and I was like, oh, hell yeah, which is great. And I was obviously jazzed up. But um I don't know why these things have to break at 2 a.m. instead of at like normal time. But yeah.
Speaker: That's okay. Whatever. um So yeah, whent you use first i mean why don't you lead off, give me your thoughts on the Christian Gonzalez extension, anything off the top you want to address, and then we can go into kind of more of the details and then football later on. so give me your thoughts on Christian.
Speaker: Yeah, I'll just say that i was skeptical that it was actually going to happen. The closer and closer we got to week one kickoff, the more skeptical I got just where it was going to be at, what was going to happen.
Speaker: ah Really not positive signs coming out of the Gonzalez camp. You could tell there were frustrations. And then what's wild is, is there's just constant reporting coming out from everyone basically saying how they're not close.
Speaker: And then this thing all seemed to come together in the final stretch ah the last few hours. Essentially, those two sides came to meet and found that common ground that obviously got the term in place.
Speaker: Gonzo got where he wanted to be from a guarantee perspective. Not only is the highest paid player in the position, but he also got the guarantees he wanted, which also put him a little bit above Witherspoon with one or two million and get that in the front load. And that was really the sticking point that you're hearing after the fact of just can they get to that point on the guarantees?
Speaker: What's wild to me is is when you look at the contract, it's like a tick above where Witherspoon was at. And it's kind of frustrating that it took so long for the Patriots to get over the hump and get this thing done. And I know we'll get back and forth about the report that was coming out and how it was handled.
Speaker: But I got to say, really big sigh of relief seeing Gonzo on the plane, getting over there to Seattle, knowing he's going to be suited up, under contracts, fully motivated.
Speaker: It really gives a good positive outlook going into the season because I was in the camp where I was getting skeptical. You know, I know there was majority people felt he was going to play based on how he was handling it. But I was in the side where I felt he was ready to sit out. I felt he was in that position that if they didn't get the deal done,
Speaker: I was thinking he was going to sit up. So knowing that he's going to be suited up, knowing he's going to be under contract, they finally did the thing and took care of the guy, makes you feel good as a Patriots fan. It's hard to look at that and say, you know, oh, that was a bad move and et cetera. So I'm glad we're in it. i'm glad we're going off and we can put that all behind us and let's talk football.
Speaker: How do feel about it, Snooty? Any thoughts to lead off? I mean, I think both sides gave in a little bit. I think Gonzalez backed off his, you know, the highest of his demands, and the Patriots were a bit more reasonable and came up from their, you know, quite frankly, ludicrously low position on a few things. I mean, there's, like, you know, the technical stuff of, like, when the vesting dates – like, I think he's got earlier vesting dates than most of the other corners, which is, you know, which is good for –
Speaker: you and In terms of him, it like guarantee basically guarantees, I think it's like $96 million. It's almost like virtually fully guaranteed. um Yes, i'm the great um I'm not even the oldest one here. um So he's the – it guarantees a lot more money, which is good. And you know like Brett said, it's just great to get back to football, real football, which is – we've all been waiting you know forever for this one.
Speaker: Yeah, so so just go into it. So what I want to address first, which I thought was you know was was weird, was the reporting. So the reporting was all over the fucking place.
Speaker: And and I think this isn't like a crazy take, like it literally was all over the place. And we had guys again, things, things we heard, things I heard weeks ago that are like they're getting close and then quickly immediately shot down by, you know, national guys, clearly guys more informed um and we say, OK, wow. All right. They weren't close. And then, I mean, up to like yesterday.
Speaker: at 9 PM, like we had reports that were like, they're nowhere. I mean, Schefter was on McAfee being like, they're nowhere in the same ballpark. And I'll pick on Schefter cause he's such a national guy. And I don't mean to, I'm not gonna, i don't need to throw any local dudes crazy under the bus, but like lot of people were like, this isn't getting done.
Speaker: It's like, it's, they're not close. Let's see what the fallout is. you know we' We're wrecking the crafts, right? and And it would have been for good reason. um But all of a sudden, bam, deal's done.
Speaker: Like one night. So, What happened here? like What happened to the reporting is what I want to know. Do you guys have any thoughts on like what what do you feel like? how do Yeah, again, i I think a lot of this was coming from the Patriots camp, and I think the Patriots were really trying to force Gonzo to capitulate on where he was standing, and good on Gonzo to get what essentially he wanted. I know there's some people coming out there talking about today where Gonzo probably could have held out and gotten more But to me, I think this was the Patriots PR trying to spin it up and basically feed things to these guys to get the narrative around the fact that
Speaker: This is somehow coming from the Gonzo camp. But they lost that battle. They lost that battle weeks ago when they would clearly you could see the sentiment was going towards Gonzalez. Clearly you could see people were looking at it saying, this is the Patriots being cheap again. They're not paying their talented guys.
Speaker: I'm in that camp. And I'm also with the one that will still say, even though they got the deal done, They're still playing games with guys that I just wish they wouldn't do. I mean, if you look at the way the contract is structured, they should have been able to close that gap weeks ago.
Speaker: Like weeks ago, you said you were going to offer him the highest paid contract of his position. You said that you were going to take care of him. You value him. You love him. And I'm talking about Kraft. and then you go ahead and you go through this back and forth for weeks in camp trying to figure out what's going on who's got what et etc and then all of these reports come out like shefter basically saying they're not even close and you get some of these random things where all of he wants 18 of the cap or he wants his contract to be the highest paid two years from now all of that bullshit none of it was true none of it was real And at the end of it all, you're basically got him right to where Witherspoon was just a tick above with 33.75 million per.
Speaker: You got him the guarantees up front, 102 million guaranteed through the contract, got the two years. Like that should have been decided. That was clear that that was what Gonzo was asking from the beginning.
Speaker: There's no way that if they offer that weeks ago, Gonzo wouldn't have signed it It was going to happen. It just frustrates me that it took this long. And to me, all of those reports is just the Patriots playing the game that the Patriots do to try to fix the narrative to help where they want to go because they wanted to be cash, ah cash tight to win the contract.
Speaker: And I think it's just frustrating when you do that to players. What I saw today is two different two different reports from two different sides, right? You have one side, and this was like this was national guys, okay? nat A bunch of national guys, including Schefter and Rapchi. This is clearly, I think, the line from the patriot from the Patriots organization, maybe, right, from the owner. They came out and they said it was the Patriots that finally bent and said, we're going to raise the AAV 33.75, and and that sealed it
Speaker: Right. And that was the reporting from, from Schefter and Rapshi today. Like it was the Patriots that came through and they bent and they said, we're going to give them the money. Right. For some reason, like that was their narrative. Okay.
Speaker: um Which again, I'm not sure the truth. The other side is I've heard that basically, and I think this is from, I think Breer just had this recently today saying this was the offer that for like a couple weeks basically and if gonzo had just taken this a couple weeks ago this would be it we wouldn't have any we wouldn't have been having this drama for the last two weeks so we have a couple like again conflicting reporting and this is like this is a weird thing i mean you don't really know how to trust other than just
Speaker: I don't know, from their own mouths. i don't know, who do you trust? Like, I don't trust any the reporting now in this situation. I don't think any, I think it's all very planned, very coordinated. Schefter today walking back his report from, or not even walking back, but Schefter today's report saying like, the Patriots were considering taking the deal off the table.
Speaker: And I was like, what? Why? Like, why would they have taken? That doesn't make sense either. Like, what do you what do you like? Where's that from? So I like, who's that from Elliot Wolf? Who's that from?
Speaker: And why would they take, they wouldn't take the deal off. That makes no fucking sense. Why you just take the deal off. Oh, they're so frustrated. So I think the reporting was really fucking weird. It was really weird. I don't, um I don't love it. I don't know. Hopefully it improves in the future.
Speaker: Um, but like not one soul was like, Hey, this is it's coming close. They're really getting there. Everyone was like, it's dead until bam, it wasn't dead. And then something changed aggressively, whether Gonzo, after talking to Mike Vrabel, said, all right, going to take it. And Gonzo caved – like, someone fully caved in this situation and said, fuck it, I just want to sign before the season.
Speaker: So – Yeah. soon i mean you go Like I said, I think both sides gave in a little bit in the end. But I think there's there's a couple points we have to look at, which is all of this is done – for two reasons. It's done to set the precedent for future players, i.e. Drake May and others, where it's basically says, OK, yeah, I get it. This guy signed a huge deal, but like you don't have to reset the market for every parameter for every fucking time. Right. Like he wanted to reportedly Gonzalez wanted to He didn't get as much guaranteed the um the first two years as Witherspoon did.
Speaker: right like He wanted $60 million. He took $53.5 whatever it is. Still shitload of money. Yeah, that was the big concession from his side. And then they apparently bumped it up in APY and all that stuff. At least the optics of it, both sides gave in little bit. The other side is like all the reporting and everything. All it is is just negotiating.
Speaker: That's all it is. It's just public negotiating, putting pressure on both sides. So it's like Gonzalez's camp was leaking shit and saying stuff through, you know, the intermediaries to say stuff. And then obviously the Patriots have a ton of connections with everybody. So like, you know, that's what, that's what they do, but it's to set the precedent as well, because this is effectively a, it's, I know it's not a brand new front office, but it's effectively a brand new front office. And this is their first big in-house free agent that they're, excuse me, in-house extension that they're signing.
Speaker: This is the first big extension in how long? I mean, when's the last time they had a big extension? It's a high tower, but it's high tower, right? Cause they traded Jones that from that. That was their last, that was their last first round. That's a long fucking time ago.
Speaker: Yeah. It's a long time. I mean, I know they, I know they missed on a shit ton of first round draft picks. So they like, it's not like they've had an opportunity. to resign like fucking Dominic easily or Cole strange. You know what mean? Like they've, they've missed on a ton of first rounders, but, but still, I, I feels like an incredibly long time before they've really locked up a first round pick or even a high profile player to a second large contract like Gronk, you know, like I'm like, how, how many other guys you can go through them. But again, they're pretty, they're pretty tough on some of these second contracts. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker: Yeah, they've always been this way. They play hard on these positions. And so, yeah, I know the story is quickly jumping to what happens with Drake May next year and then potentially you get Will Campbell the year after that, which...
Speaker: Again, you're paying guys in premium positions at premium dollars. So eventually the dollars do cash up, which is why it's important to make sure you draft correctly and make the right signings. But May is clearly the guy, and we'll see what happens in year three.
Speaker: i just look at it and say, I'm glad they got it done. It's it's both a sign of really shitty drafts, like they've made a lot of shitty draft picks in the first round, which is why they didn't extend it, but then just also the – Same adage where they don't always pay those guys and they feel like they can just continue to find in the draft to find a free agency, which was a combination of Belichick's approach towards coaching. But I also think it's a aspect of craft. And if you, if you sit back and think about it, logically, any owner would look at it and say the same thing. If I can get by being in championships, paying less money in cap,
Speaker: then I'm going to spend it. Like if I can get equal amount of success spending less dollars, I'm going to do it. And he had that formula work for him for so long that he was able to sustain it.
Speaker: the Your point, which is 100% true, there's a whole change of guard here, right? It's not Belichick. It's Rabel. It's not guys running the front office and then slowly became Bill.
Speaker: It's new guys that he came in with stretch and grow being into that position. And Elliott Wolfe, who's establishing himself in that position, And if you look at how rabel handled all the players in the Titans error when he was there They paid those guys the only guy they didn't pay was AJ Brown and that was essentially the downfall towards my gray bull error So they paid the guys Mike clearly wanted to pay the guy so I can buy into that It's just I think there's a little bit of a holdover here where craft both Rob and Jonathan have that older mentality of we can get away with paying less and still being able to produce Because we have the quarterback, we have the coach, and we'll figure everything else out.
Speaker: I think there's ah there's an element of Vrabel's a former player part of this as well. So, like, i think there's that interview that he had when when he was still a player, and i think he and Bruschi were there giving something on, um you know, Randy Moss or something like that. And it's like,
Speaker: They're like, oh, you're giving up draft cap. It's yeah, but like he's a fucking good player. You mean? Like he respects the fact that like if you're a good player and you are an elite premium player at that position or whatever position, like then you, you you know, obviously he understands why that, that they want to get paid, but also how valuable that type of player actually is.
Speaker: Right. Like um this is an elite corner. Those guys don't grow on trees. Like you, you need to keep them. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah i think everyone understands they need to pay their premier talent. You know, that's extremely important to be paying your young premier talent at premier positions. I mean, that's who you want to be. That's all it all teams mostly are, right?
Speaker: You need to keep and lock up your good talent. They had an absurd run for 20 years because it's such an ah ah absurdly strong base in place with Brady running one full side of the football, able to do magical things with guys that sometimes weren't as talented around a few really premier players. Right. We don't have to rehash the whole dynasty stuff, but, I want to put, there's a comment by Cole Sturgill on YouTube. Barth on catch 22 said it's not fair to lay bill strategy on paying players on Wolf and Vrabel mentioned they signed Milton and Gonzo and things are different. And like, i agree. i don't, I think there's debate there between whose strategy was it right? I've heard them talk. Was it bill?
Speaker: Was it, was it a craft? Whose, whose strategy was it to be tough on players financially and a really hard ball players like Logan Megans or something, right? Like who, I don't know. Like if you're sitting in the room, was it both of them? Was it one of them more like bill just said, I'm not paying like bill in Cleveland didn't want to pay his left tackle. more than he made as a coach. Like that's that's petty, and but that's a true story. so So in that circumstance, I don't know if that's a Kraft thing or more of a Bill thing.
Speaker: For Vrabel and this regime and Wolf, I think they understand they need to lock up and pay people money for premium talent. I think that's that's clear. like out And this Gonzo deal settles it. If this was Bill, Gonzo would be sitting out half the year and then he'd be traded next season if this was potentially Bill.
Speaker: Right. And i think between Vrabel and Kraft, instead of Bill and Kraft, Vrabel goes to Kraft and goes like, we need this player. We want Gonzo. We need this player. He's a huge piece of what we do. If we want to keep winning at an elite level, look at our backup cornerbacks.
Speaker: Like we need Christian Gonzalez. So yeah, I think largely Kraft, deserves some credit. And again, this is like the weirdest thing that people refuse to give any credit to k craft ever.
Speaker: um And I'm not like, I'll criticize if I think he's being cheap, if he didn't sign him here, i would have been really pissed at him. But ultimately he did sign him. They forked over the money and you know, and it should hopefully work out for everybody, but like they've signed Milton Williams. They've, they've paid people. They've been paying people last few years. So it is what it is you can't you got to give them slowers too you know yeah it's it's pretty wild to think Again, if I look at the timeline on how this one went down, I do think Kraft didn't help the narrative that he has about being cheap, which I would say for years was supported by Belichick's philosophy. Yes, Belichick had this, again, no one's bigger than the team, confidence in what he could do to find talented players, and he almost did it from an egotistical perspective where he was the guy that could say, I can take anyone and turn them into a championship caliber player.
Speaker: That was just the level of coaching he had and belief he had it himself. And again, when it comes to Kraft, Belichick's giving Kraft basically the confidence to say, I'll figure it out. You don't have to spend the money. And every now and then, they had to go in and say, no, we're going to pay this guy this money, top dollars, etc. Like the Gronk contract when we went ahead and signed him.
Speaker: with rabel and wolf they are going out and they're swinging not only are they looking at it for guys they brought in but we've also talked about the last podcast guys they missed out on which thankfully they did because it's worked out in the end but they were willing to pay 30 million dollars for some wide receivers to come in and again these aren't like premier top in their positions i understand wide receivers are slightly above when it comes to cornerbacks but When you look at Gonzo, he is arguably top three, clear cut. When you look at the wide receivers they were doing on the free agency side of things, it wasn't even close. So I'm glad they're paying the players. I'm glad they got it done and were able to lock it up. I just don don't think Kraft really helped his cause because it didn't close the gap soon enough.
Speaker: And I feel like where they landed today, that should have happened weeks ago. And I just have a hard time believing I just don't buy into Breer's report that this was the contract that was on the table for weeks and that Gonzo finally came to terms because he had a heart-to-heart with Rabel. I just don't i don't buy it. I don't buy that at all. Snitty, read this comment and then go.
Speaker: Bill taking Little Caesars employees and making them pro bowlers for 20 years. I mean, so... I mean, that's extreme. But the thing with Bill was, like first of all, they would spend money. like They made Menken, I think, the highest paid guard in the league at the time. They made Gronk the highest paid tight end at the time. Gilmore was the top of the league. He may have been the top the league for a corner for a while. like Brady was once or once or twice a quarter. but like They will pay, but the strongest – certainly – You know, Kraft likes to find value. All owners like to find value, except for maybe Jerry Jones, who's just trying to buy a championship before he dies at this point. Like they all like to, you know to get value for for the money they spent on the contract. Bill's strength while he was here for the longest time was locking up the key and elite and essential players and letting all the other players go, perhaps a year earlier than expect, to you know, to try to recoup some value. That was the best part of Belichick as a GM, is he knew which guys to largely, i mean, obviously, a fell off at the end, but largely he knew which guys to sign long term, the key ones, the cornerstone pieces, and which ones that, no, you're replaceable, you can let go.
Speaker: um So, I mean, Kraft will spend. It's just sometimes they get into, like, just a pissing contest in, like, some of the shit in the contract. And and Belichick fed right into that because he was – know, he was an economics guy. like that's Like, that's what he was. He loved to find every edge of every deal in every way possible because, you know, the inches in the game and that whole thing. So, Kraft will spend. It's just – Sometimes you gotta, you gotta prove to him why it has to be so much that type of thing. Remember the Al Pacino speech in a any given Sunday, the inches in front of your face.
Speaker: Classic. Um, yeah. So, uh, I would say obviously we're not, I don't think we're going to know for real. who who actually did what? This is the hard part. Because like i you have to literally be in the negotiation.
Speaker: Snuni said, I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think clearly like Gonzo might have wanted that fully guaranteed number to be above Witherspoon. And that's the number that I think ultimately Schefter was like, they're not close on that guarantee. He's like, the Patriots are not paying him $60 million and fully guaranteed. But then there was good favorable language. like Basically,
Speaker: He's got a ton guaranteed and then a lot of no injury clauses the next first couple of years. Those aren't even there. And then like later on in a couple of years from now, like it it vests somewhat early versus Weatherspoons, I guess, doesn't vest as early. Anyway, it's like a lot of contract chat. It's just basically like this is this is the problem when we've got caught in offseason mode. We're just like like thinking about fucking guarantees and contracts. When in essence, we should literally, we we can move out of that and just be like, we just need the fucking player.
Speaker: We need the player because we're going against Jackson, Smith, and Jigba on tomorrow night. And you who do you want to cover him? Charles Cross or Kendall Vildor?
Speaker: Like this is like, it's a big deal. If Gonzo doesn't go, that's a huge deal. So let's actually get into the ball a little bit. I feel like it's been like, ah you know, just a while before we actually talked like ball and how the game might end up.
Speaker: um What's up? No, was just saying finally, we can talk ball. Go ahead. Keep going. Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought you said something. Yeah, I thought Snooty said something. But, yes, like we can talk ball. So I would say this.
Speaker: What you guys – I'll throw to you guys again. Like what do you think – Snooty, you go first this time. What do you think is the biggest matchup you're watching, biggest initial key to the game? What are you looking for? I think it's the line of scrimmage on both sides. um I mean, the offensive line got its ass kicked in the Super Bowl, and they rushed four and got like 70% pressure or something silly. That happens again. You can have every fucking receiver all you want. You're not going to do shit.
Speaker: can't run the ball, can't protect the quarterback, that whole thing. But I think a sneaky element to this game will be the run defense because if you can't stop them – if you force – them to throw the ball and force Sam Darnold to beat you, that's the best way to to slow them down slow them down and and to beat them. Because I get it. He won a Super Bowl. Sam Darnold's not that good.
Speaker: He's just not. Like, he's okay. That team was fucking loaded. That defense was ridiculous. Like, He's he's he's obviously good enough to win you Super Bowl in the perfect circumstance. But like and if you make it that offense one dimensional, that's your best way of of slowing things down. So to me, it's the trenches, but everyone's talking about the o line. So I think it's going run defense.
Speaker: um Just to make a quick aside on that point. Darnold, how bad did Minnesota mess up letting Darnold go? Just like as an aside, because like yeah he was – they were crushing it. I know he sucks in the postseason like he got his yips again. They had some great fucking seasons with Kevin O'Connell throwing to like Justin Jefferson and stuff. I'm just saying like massive mistake there, and I feel like Minnesota really fucked up.
Speaker: this thing they were building and now they got kyler murray and and jj mccarthy so anyway quick aside but i just thought that was kind of silly how how that huge that altered their franchise but brett you go what's the key their team would have been better knowing they had either daniel jones or sam donald either would have been a better option than the ross they took so swing and a miss surprisingly even still have surprise still has job but anyways that off the table I hate to agree with Snooty, but I do agree with Snooty on this one. It's just...
Speaker: The line play is critical here ah because, yeah, we got to see what happens in establishing the run. And can we hold up on our offensive line and what we're able to do? So looking on our side, I've been saying for a while, I don't know if we're going to be able to dial up the pressure against Sam Darnold.
Speaker: So if we allow them to establish the run and then we can't put any pressure or when they go to the passing game, we're going to be in for a long night and it's going to be really hurt us overall.
Speaker: And then if you look from the offensive side, can we establish the run? I know it's going to be hard to do against Seattle's defense, but I would take the same approach that we had last year where it's basically you've got to run to consistently have the threat of a run.
Speaker: You can't abandon it early because if you've abandoned it early and then you're asking Drake May to drop back like 40, 50 times, I think it's a recipe for disaster. So stick with the run.
Speaker: Hopefully the additions we've made on the offensive line are going to help us to remain competitive in that side of things. We're obviously the Henderson impact. I think that's a problem. But Seattle, I mean, they're banged up too. I mean, Walker's gone. He's over in Kansas City.
Speaker: They have, what's it, Cabernet, whatnot, is not playing week one. They have that a that rookie price. It's pretty good. Yeah, so so we'll see how their run game looks and what it what will produce.
Speaker: um I think it's going to be one and loss in those trenches. and And basically, if whichever team can establish the run to then open up the pass game is the team that's going to separate and eventually run away with it. It's probably going to be very tight early on, but I think that's what's going to happen.
Speaker: think, too, like ah people aren't I don't think people are realizing like the Patriots offense is going to be Pretty good. Like, and and I think there, and this might be hard. This is game one, as we know, offenses might start a little bit slower than defenses right to gel. But I think honestly, I think like the offense is, is very, very talented. They made some awesome additions and not to mention again, the Seahawks defense,
Speaker: like Like I said, Rick Wolin is gone, and he's looked really good this offseason with, I think he's with, like, Philly now. Like, like he's – Wolin has been good. He's gone. Nick Imoniori, who's, like, the cog to make this go, is the big nickel.
Speaker: You know, like, like he's – he is probably not going to play. And so their secondary is almost like – I hate to use decimated, but, like, their secondary is really banged up.
Speaker: So, and you happen to add AJ Brown and Romeo Dobbs. And, you know, and so to me, i think, man, I just, you got to pass the ball. And the issue is we talked about it. There's the number one run defensive football last year. Like their, their D line is outstanding. Like Byron Murphy and letter Williams. And like, they're outstanding.
Speaker: Um, but I think you're going to hopefully be able to find a way to move the ball. And if you can, if Mike, Mike McDonald is just, um, this much of a savant situationally, which he might be, he could be, like I said, he could be the next, the next Belichick defensive guru.
Speaker: um He's off to a pretty good start. Right. ah But if he situationally just beats us up, then it's, that's a coaching issue. But I think personnel wise, like you should be able to generate some, something on offense, certainly more than last season in the Superbowl.
Speaker: Yeah, the rosters definitely got closer. It's hard to look at them and say the talent gap is still significant. If you would compare the talent gap to what was the matchups in the Super Bowl versus the talent gap we have now, like significantly closer.
Speaker: ah Right off the top, you talk about... Yeah, I mean, Brown and Dobbs are like night and day difference compared to what you had on wide receivers last year. You couldn't separate. You flat out could not separate to get anyone open. So it didn't matter what you tried to do. You just couldn't do it.
Speaker: We got better and so that should produce itself and that should show up on the field um another point that I don't think has been talked about enough is Seattle's got a new offensive coordinator and Their offense was already. Okay. I mean jsn's obviously elite But like I don't think they have a ton of weapons outside of that like she he's a solid player Um, but I just don't see a ton of weapons on their team So I do think there's some opportunity there with a ah newer offensive coordinator trying to establish things.
Speaker: I think we'll have a little bit of a leg up there. I was more weary early on because I had predicted Seattle win this and I was really weary about where our offense would be at this point because we had so many new pieces trying to pull them all together. But from all accounts, it seems like everyone's gelling quick.
Speaker: So that should bode well for us and where our ah offense is going to be more in sync in my mind than what you're going to see from Seattle. Yeah, I mean, they've had enough change like to merit some question. I think the offensive coordinator, I believe he's not like a QB coach or wasn't a QB coach. I think he comes more from like the O-line side of things.
Speaker: who's that tight He was a tight end coach, I think. Right, but I think – point being, I think he he's a little bit closer, not the through the quarterback size versus through some of the skill guys. um I mean, look, they're a talented team. Yeah.
Speaker: They're probably overall more talented than the Patriots just because I think they have more depth. They've drafted better for longer. And that's kind of the next step in terms of progression for the Patriots is to, you know, to flush out the depth. That way you don't have all these issues. you don't have to go sign a 36-year-old guard when you lose your backup, you know, and interior depth piece.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, i think it's a – I wonder if the Patriots just come out just winging the ball around, just being like, fuck it. I don't know if we're to be able to run. Like, fuck it. Here we go.
Speaker: First play, A.J. Brown, 101. Fuck it. Fuck you guys, man. Cool. It's like that game. I heard this talking about Barth. I think we were talking about this over the weekend. It's like that game against Minnesota in the Brady era where the Williams wall or whatever. And everyone's how they going to run How they going to run the ball? they just came out and threw the ball like 56 times. They were like, we're just – we're not. Like, who cares?
Speaker: Yeah, you can stop the run. You can't do shit against the pass. Like, Tom, go to work. I think you're right, though. I think on paper, like, the Patriots have – are a much improved team, especially, I think, on offense. I mean, they're off – I mean, they add, it you know, from having a healthy Campbell, you know, Jared Wilson, yeah. Like, if Jared Wilson gets his ass kicked – against Byron Murphy and Leonard Williams. Like, and and that might happen. Like, again, these are top tier. Like try to explain, like these are really good players. Their tackle play was outstanding last year. I mean, like real like they were a really good team. There's there reason you got beat up in the Superbowl. Like they're a very good defense, but like,
Speaker: I agree, man. If you don't think you can run, just fucking air it out. I don't, let's go. Air out to Dobbs. How about like, i think that the Seahawks, from what understand what they did, right? You said they didn't blitz all the time, but they had timely blitzing and they really hit home. It was like when they blitzed, it was always right. Like Devin Witherspoon on a corner blitz. It was always right.
Speaker: So that's something to be, be worried about. um And again, like they play a lot of like, a lot of what the modern NFL is, which is they try to stop, stop the run. So you're in like second and long third and long, right? Philosophically, then you're playing, you're too high or you're playing quarters.
Speaker: And it's like, keep it in front of you. And so they just funnel, they funnel your choice, the quarterback's choice. And this is again, what Belichick's do this stuff to you. You like make the quarterback, make the decision, right? You have to funnel his choice and keep it in front of people.
Speaker: And then they, they, they stop people and they were the best defense in football. So I think it's the strategy seems clear, but it all starts with, can you stuff, can you stuff the run? and last year they stuffed the run so yeah we got to get off tackle uh we got to get to the outside because they're just too stout up the middle and we talked about this last year and super bowl going up we basically said the same thing like you're not going to get any success up the middle it's not going to happen and you are correct like you're asking a lot for jared wilson up there you also got a like you still got vera talker on whenu like i I just don't know if that's going to work out.
Speaker: But, yeah, I agree. I think Reggie Gilliam is going to be able to help us out a lot to make sure that we're able to get those run lanes. And can we get off tackle? Can we get outside of Moses? Can we get outside of Campbell and actually open things up?
Speaker: I'd also like to see, and I've been i'm in hammering this home for a while, Can you establish a screen game? Can you do something with the screen to get these guys out and open? Especially with a guy trying to get into rhythm like May in the game, where obviously you're in away territory, things are going jacked up. Seattle's still no joke to go over. I hate the cliche of the 12, but i mean it's still no-joke stadium.
Speaker: Give him some simple optional plays for him to be able to get some quick movement quick action get guys into space So can we stop? screen game can we get off tackle really try to force them to be?
Speaker: ah Really open themselves up a little bit and then you can start attacking them up the seams and start finding ways to really get them deep I think early on You got to try to play short again, not abandon the run.
Speaker: If you start abandoning the run, you get too one dimensional. I think you're in trouble.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I hear that, but I think flow of the game is part of it too. Like if you, if your defense is just like, you can't stop the run and they're just going, then like,
Speaker: I mean, at some point you got to air it out to try to get some big plays. I mean, the offense lived and died on big plays last year. They really couldn't sustain drives all that ah as much as you'd think for a 14 and three team. Like they they lived and died by the big, even the Super Bowl. They lived and died by the big place. The reason they scored anything and then made it at least on paper made it appear as though it was a game. It was not a game. Like, because they got the big play to Hollins and, you know, I think was Hollins scored, right? The touchdown, the.
Speaker: Yeah, Hollins scored. Yeah, so it's like, i don't know. I mean, that's kind of their DNA. I think they're trying to make May a bit more of like ah a field general type where he can diagnose and get them into the right play. I think that's the next step for him is to be able to audible and take more control of the offense. And if he does that, I mean, look out.
Speaker: right like it it To me, it really comes down the old line. I think, does Wilson take second-year jump? like He's back to his natural position. He's surrounded by two veterans now. He's not a rookie. He's seen a ton of shit. like He should be in a better position. Vera Tucker is a legitimate NFL player. right like He's better than Bradbury was, if you want to say Wilson's the same player moving positions.
Speaker: How much better should Will Campbell be? coming back this time I think I think we'll Will Campbell's gonna have a really good year this year um I know everyone's gonna accuse me of being you know a Campbell guy whatever but like I just feel like he's I think 22 years old now like he just turned 22 um he clearly filled out he's healthy now I think he's pissed off and I think he's the type of guy that when he gets pissed off is like Like that's really, like he needs that. um I think he's just really pissed off. He's just, everyone's been giving him shit for like over a year now. I just feel like he's going to be more comfortable and he's, I think he's, in he's going to have a monster year this year and everyone will finally shut the fuck up about stupid arm length and shit.
Speaker: I'm excited to see his like tape, to be honest with you. I'm excited to see what it looks like. I want to see like, How many pancake blocks does Will Kama have this year? Because it's going to be a lot. Like I think he's the genuine. Like you said, he's gonna he's furious, man. Like he's he's angry. Like he doesn't – his whole life you go, you're like, I'm king shit.
Speaker: I'm a starter. I'm a left tackle at LSU. Like three-year starter. Like since a fresh – like I'm king shit. And then like go to the NFL and all anyone can talk about is how tiny your arms are.
Speaker: For every day. Like, hey, T-Rex boy. you know and then like starts off okay, gets his lunch handed to him by Miles Garrett on the way to five sacks against the Patriots. Horrific. And then like blow your knee virtually.
Speaker: They rush him back. Claim he's not injured, whereas everyone watching knows he can't he doesn't have the power in his leg, right? And then you kind of hang out to dry in the Super Bowl. Like, Jared Wilson, I'm sure had something banged up. Like, he just he got his lunch handed to him. Will Campbell was not right, man. We said it for a million times. He wasn't right. He probably shouldn't have been playing. So I feel like they really hung him out to dry, man. I feel like, you know, this is this is a huge year for him.
Speaker: You should – every single person, whether you're in the comments – listening on the internet, every person should be rooting for Will Campbell to succeed. I don't give a shit if you're into the small arm talk or not. I don't care. You should want him to succeed because if he doesn't succeed, then we're in fucking trouble.
Speaker: Okay? You got to see, okay, now we got low mood. Does he go to left? Okay, and then Morgan Moses retires and then we need to find a right tack. It just creates more problems.
Speaker: So everyone should want... Will Campbell to succeed. Like, keep that in mind. You should be rooting for him, not being like, he sucks, he's got tiny arms. No, root for the fucking player.
Speaker: Anyways. Well, I think we're all rooting for him. But the problem is we're skeptical of him, of about what he's going to do in high school. That's fine. That's different. That's fine. and not and that's And that's fair. I think that's where we're at. it What is unfair is when people well start commenting and saying, like, Lou Moo should step in right away for Campbell because he's already lost it. Like, yeah he does he deserves better credit because, again, prior to the injury – All things considered, you take the Miles Garrett game out of the equation, which, again, legendary Hall of Famer, first battle Hall of Famer, one of the best ever play the position. Take that out of the equation.
Speaker: He had a really strong, solid first-year campaign as a left tackle in an offense where they didn't, again, have all of the best weapons to really help.
Speaker: You know, so if four straight may to have to make some difficult plays and and do what Drake may does Because the guys couldn't separate but I'll also just bring it back to like getting the guys in rhythm You want to get the offensive line of rhythm start running the ball?
Speaker: You know, let them start getting after the guys that they're on the defensive line. Let them get hungry They'll appreciate being able to go after it and and start attacking guys rather than trying to sit back and constantly be in pass pro so I I want to see them establish a run. I know everyone wants to see them air it out because of the weapons we have.
Speaker: I just want to see them establish a run because I felt like that was the biggest thing we were missing all last year. And I hear you, Snooty. You're right. We lived and died off of the big plays. That's what helped us to stay in games.
Speaker: But a good offense is going to be able to go out there and establish what they want to be able to establish regardless of what the defense does. Yeah, I just feel like, i don't know. I mean, that's kind of who they are. And I know they're they're making changes and they've added, you know, Gilliam, who's sneaky, really important pickup. I just don't know if this is the week where it's going to happen, right? Like this is kind of the elite of the elite. So it's not a complete shame. If you have trouble running the ball against this team, everyone has trouble running the ball against this team.
Speaker: So i think on the year, yeah, I think they want to be more balanced. I think it's they realize that it's probably unsustainable to have that level of success in terms of um you know big play success, that type of thing. I i mean, May's numbers were ridiculous um you know um on deep shots on the field. So I don't think it's sustainable. So I think in the long run, sure. i just don't think we're there yet.
Speaker: think I've convinced myself somehow, like talking about the offense now, this might be premature. But I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself that this might be a really great offense. Like, we're really great. Like, now I'm thinking about I'm like, you know what? I'm like, this is a fucking team on offense.
Speaker: Like, I don't know. I'm just like – 2017 numbers coming up. I don't know. Just year three, Drake – You know, two bona fide, legit wide receivers. I mean, A.J. Brown, even signing a fullback.
Speaker: You know, the line should be solidified. Like, I'm just like, i don't know, I'm getting starting to get hyped now because I actually feel like they're going to be a really great ah offense. That doesn't mean everything's going to be amazing it's the best defense in football in the first game, but I do think that they're going to be very competitive all year in offense. And i think Drake's going have a great season, obviously.
Speaker: i I think we can talk about being a little worried on defense, and I don't know if you got – I think they're going be really well coached on defense. But, like, don't know, he's so incredibly thin almost at every position. I mean, if one linebacker goes down, if – you know, you don't have any edges basically anyway. I mean, like, why are people – people are talking about Elijah Ponder, like – He's the second coming. I know like this is was a UDFA last like last year.
Speaker: Who's just penciling in as a starter? What are we expecting from Elijah Ponder? Everyone's like, oh he's going to be great. Like, OK, what are we what do what do we know about Elijah Ponder? In all seriousness, about a full year starter.
Speaker: You guys know something? I don't know. He's going to get a lot of reps. So he's probably going to put up some numbers. We'll find out by a few games in what he's, what he's offering. Yeah. They don't, they don't have, this is the like linebacker depth. Sure. You can't like, it's kind of like what we said last year. You can't remake a team in one year.
Speaker: Right. So like you, you had linebacker depth. They get, they get the kid from TCU. They get a couple younger, faster guys that they wanted to get. And, and, and I get that, but yeah, they still have, you know, guys that can actually play the end. I'm like, dude, like, I'm not even sure you have guys that can play.
Speaker: Like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's one thing to lack depth after like having a solid start to complete other thing to be like, yeah, dude, i don't know, man. Like, do they have anybody?
Speaker: Well, I thought that way last week when Sophie Weller was on the pod and she was talking about how she was not surprised at all that Ponder was considered the guy and had never any doubts that he would be able to step in and be a day one starter and be kind of that bell cow position.
Speaker: i mean, that's surprising to me, honestly. She was very confident. She was very very confident, which, hey, she's down there more often and obviously seeing it, so maybe she's on to something there.
Speaker: I don't know. I'm not super confident between him and Draymond Jones. They're clearly going to the guys that are going to rely early on, and then you're going to have to filter in Yakis after that to see what happens. But as I've been saying for a while, I think they're going to have to, especially to contain the run, they're going to have to move guys on the defensive interior to the outside to help with some of the contain.
Speaker: So I think there's going to be a good amount of reps that you're going to see the farmer and dirt and more. So the normal and far more Milton Williams are obviously going to be your bell cow guys in those positions, but I think they're going to flex those guys around to help be a little bit more stout up front.
Speaker: I just super concerned when it comes to ponder and Draymond Jones. I just don't know if they're the guys right now. Are they going to be able to do it? I don't know. i haven't seen anything that would tell me otherwise.
Speaker: Well, this guy, Birdman1990, YouTube comment, says, what's the latest on Harold Landry? All he knows is what? He's out for at least four weeks. Is that is he on the the four-week IR?
Speaker: pop yes Yeah, it's a minimum four weeks he's out. but Okay. So he's out for a minimum four weeks. And, I mean, the last thing we heard was – the latest last thing I heard was he's improving.
Speaker: And there's couple – Other guys who have reported like Kevin Stone is reported. There's a lot of BC stuff and he kind of reported that um he's not done super well with his rehab and he's still not the same guy. So I think there's like a ton of reason to be worried for certain, but um you know, I've heard elsewhere too, like he is improving and he's trying to make his way back.
Speaker: So I think you got to see, man, i don't, I think with Harold Landry, like, Do I think he'll play again this season? i do. i think he'll play. i Hopefully he plays like you know week five and on.
Speaker: um Is there a possibility he never plays football again in the NFL? Yep. Yep, there's a possibility of that too, which that would suck, but there is a possibility. So um I think you genuinely like people got to realize that you got to be pretty healthy and strong to play in this league. And if your knee gets right, he really got ripped up last year. And that's a long road back, man. And sometimes like even with Edelman, with his chronic knee stuff, like he just couldn't. he just couldn't go. Or even to bring it to baseball, like Dustin Pedroia playing for the Red Sox. Every time he'd do anything on the field, his knee would just swell up. You just couldn't go.
Speaker: So sometimes the joints just fall apart, unfortunately. So I hope we see him back. I would expect him back at some point. But I think there's that off chance that he just maybe doesn't play again. He's that that bad.
Speaker: So to answer your question. How many back is this week? What's that? How many s snaps? How many how many reps do you think we get out of Yakis this week?
Speaker: Yeah. I'm going to guess 15.
Speaker: 15 snaps. that's That's my guess based on nothing, just based on guessing. I just think he'll get in, just let's mix him in a little for for Ponder and see some third downs, some second and longs, and you see like – see what do you got that's what i would do but like if you're in situations like even first and ten where you think like there's gonna be a confusion yeah action then don't put him in he's gonna bite yeah don't put him in it that that would mine snooty what do you think 22.
Speaker: twenty two 22 to don't think it's that high. No, I was going to say in the 12th. I was going to say the 12th of 15. Yeah, but here's my thing. Okay, so the two guys ahead of them are Jones and Ponder.
Speaker: The fourth to end is like Quintavious Hutchins. Yeah. who's like even more raw and rare than than he is. So it's like, who else are they going to fucking play?
Speaker: Are they just not going to but have outside linebackers? I told you they're going to move the guys to the left side. But let's talk about the position grouping that really just doesn't have any wiggle room.
Speaker: I mean, you got – let's talk about lacking. Like, that is not – you are not the Houston Texans, let's say, like Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter. Like, you are not the Houston Texans. So, I mean, I'm a little higher on Draymond Jones and than others are. Like, I like Draymond Jones. i think he's a solid player.
Speaker: But you're not – the talent there is just not what it needs to be unless you have – rocket like ascension from Elijah Ponder.
Speaker: And like, I don't know what, like, you like you said, Brett, I think it's a better call that you just put Barmore or Milt Williams, put Milt on the, on the outside and against the tackle. And then you get Corey Durden and Barmore on the inside. Right. So you can mix up because between Milton Corey Durden, they're really great against pass rushing situations as well. So And I thought Farmer did well stepping in when Barmer was down last year too.
Speaker: Like when Barmer went down, I thought Farmer was serviceable. Like I think he did yeah well enough. and ah And that's where I look at and say, I have more confidence in sliding those guys out and putting in like dirt in or Farmer getting more reps in the interior than be like, yeah, we're going Hutchinson out or we're going to put more with Yakis.
Speaker: Like I just think, especially as a ah rookie coming in, I just think he's probably going very situational, which is why it's probably to be 12 or 15 snaps. I don't see him coming out on first down or second down where it's like second and five or around that range. I just don't see it.
Speaker: so think for How much do you want to how much do you want to hurt your you know interior rush by pulling away elite players like Barmore? Well, I don't think it's a significant – it's a drop-off, don't get me wrong, but it's not like as significant.
Speaker: if you're putting a guy like Farmer Durden inside and then kind of floating around. And I get it. Like, Baltimore's not going to go out there and play 50 snaps. Like, it's not going to happen. He's going to need rest, too.
Speaker: So they're going to have to rotate some guys around. i just think... when they look at it, I'm not going to be surprised if come Thursday, we're looking at it and saying, yeah, guess only got like 12 snaps and Hutchinson didn't even see the field. And and really they had to rotate and guys when they had to give a blow for ponder Jones.
Speaker: Yeah. Let's um I don't know if you guys have any final football thoughts on the game, but just to get in the spirit of towards wrapping it. Um, um, of last question Birdman here. Ask another question. Is there any validity to the rumor? Pats are looking to trade for cave on Thibodeau. No clue.
Speaker: No clue. I would say I doubt it. And they're probably asking for too much. And I don't think that moves the needle necessarily that much. So unless I haven't heard that anywhere other than just like Twitter rumors, unfortunately. So I wish we knew otherwise. But sorry to say, I don't know if that's a real one.
Speaker: um But if you feel like he's that much of an upgrade over Ponder, then maybe that's something you want to campaign for online. um All right, let's do predictions.
Speaker: This is what we did last I think think last year i predicted the Patriots go undefeated pretty much at the end of most of our podcasts. So um so let's let's make our predictions. Brett, why don't you start? what is the What's the score of the game? Who wins?
Speaker: um I'm going to say it's 27-24, and pulls it out. just – and i think seattle pulls it out i just I just think it's one of those things where we're going to struggle down the end to be able to contain. i just, I'm not as confident on our defensive side of the ball. i'm really down on them. Honestly, I think our, our offense is going to do well enough to open things up and and get some scores. So put up 24, which is respectable against Seattle's defense.
Speaker: I, I see 27, 24 Seattle. 24, 21 Patriots.
Speaker: dutyy twenty four twenty one patriots Ooh, you're so close to what I was going to guess. So close. I was going to say 23-20 Patriots.
Speaker: That's feeling like – don't know. What's the over-under? I mean, not like we're a betting – Three and a Yes. I think it's three and a half. Well, it's over under though. Oh, over under 44 and a half probably.
Speaker: Okay. So I would be like, just. so soon I'm just guessing. just that's a total fuck sos look up the Someone's to get the over under here. ah Yeah. I think 23, 20 paths, 44 and a half.
Speaker: Oh, look. okay We're right on it. We're right on it. And you got them yeah the over. Just, you have them just over. um Yeah, wow. Okay. Well, yeah, I got – I haven't crushed me over.
Speaker: Also, let me remind people, okay, first week of the season, weird shit happens. So I don't think it's insane to suggest the Patriots could win in Seattle.
Speaker: Like I really don't. I know that everyone's like, no way, blah, blah. but Like the teams are a little different. The rosters are better for the Patriots. And the fact that, again, like, weird like You lost to the Raiders game one last year, right? Wasn't it the Raiders? The Raiders were an atrocious team, yeah atrocious, right? So anything can happen on day one, just saying.
Speaker: Yes. it's It's not outlandish. I mean, it's unlikely, but it's not outlandish if we're being outlandish. Yeah, I don't think – My big thing is we're not going to look as inept as we did in the Super Bowl. Like, we yeah couldn't do anything offensively.
Speaker: Very bad. That will not be the case. So that's why, mean, I'm going to be positive about the fact that we're going to score 24. I just, I have very little faith in our defense right now. I just have super high concerns about how they're going to do.
Speaker: Even though Seattle's not a super elite offense, I just think it's an away game. I think it is problematic. Which is why I don't think we're going to it. I like the guys in the starting defense for the most part, other than we talked about the edge role. But, like, I like a lot of the starters. The problem it's like a house of cards to me. Like, you just, like, one position group goes down, one guy gets hurt, and, like, you're like, whoa. Like, if one of your corners goes down, if one of the linebackers goes Like, it's so – the depth is not there. So, like, that is – that's a massive, massive, massive concern to me.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, but I think that's more long term for me. So I'm not as concerned in one individual game. Yeah. Any final thoughts? Anything else you guys want to get out get out here
Speaker: Dude, less than 24 hours. We'll be at halftime almost right about now, 24 hours from now. You're not ready. It's halftime, thirteen nothinghin thirteen thirteen nothing Seahawks, and I'm just like losing my mind going psychotic watching it.
Speaker: i don't know God help us if that happens. Let's hope Patriots is just better showing than the Super Bowl, please. so All right, guys. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate it. And go Patriots. They play tomorrow.
Speaker: We're back. We did it. right. Cheers. Peace.
