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E148: The Axeman of New Orleans
4.7k Plays2 years ago
From 1910 to 1919, a murderer stalked the nights, intent on a bloody crime spree through the streets of New Orleans. Targeting Italian grocers, his acts grew more heinous as time went on. Despite leaving behind murder weapons, other evidence, and multiple witnesses, we still haven’t discovered his true identity.
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Transcript
Fear of the Dark: Evolutionary Roots
00:00:00
Speaker
If I'm being completely honest with you all, I am slightly scared of the dark. Not really the dark itself, but more like of what is hiding in the dark that I can't see. It's what could be hiding in the shadows that keeps me running back to the safety of the light. Is there some ghost, a faceless monster, or killer lurking in the shadows ready to grab me when the light goes out or when I step into the darkness? Is there someone watching me, waiting for the right time to strike?
00:00:29
Speaker
Those are the questions that eat at me when the sun sets and I find myself confronted with my enemy, the darkness. Those are the questions that make me run up the stairs when I turn the light off in the basement as fast as I can, or when I make Anthony watch me from the front door when I have to retrieve a book from my car in the middle of the night.
00:00:47
Speaker
even though that sounds like a childish thing to believe, that someone or something is waiting in the darkness for us. Our fear of the dark is actually an evolutionary trait that we picked up to survive real-life predators stalking us at night. According to an article posted on Science Alert in 2016, researchers have hypothesized that this fear stems from a point of human history when we were nowhere near
00:01:15
Speaker
the top of the food chain or the top predators that we are today because humans only really became super predators with the advancement of technology which wasn't too long ago. But for modern technology our ancestors were constantly on the lookout for predators that wanted nothing more than to chow down on human sandwiches.
00:01:35
Speaker
Think of the movie The Croods. If you haven't seen that movie, it's about a prehistoric family that survives by following a very strict set of rules. One rule is that they must be inside their cave before dark. And you may be saying, why? Well, simple, because during that time, most of these predators hunted at night
00:01:55
Speaker
a time of day when humans are especially vulnerable to attack because we can't see in the dark. That same article says, quote, that means it is very important for our ancestors to stay safe in the middle of the night. If they didn't, they'd die. Over the years, this nightly fear became instinctual, and we still experience today as a form of mild anxiety, end quote.
00:02:17
Speaker
And we aren't talking typically about the type of anxiety that gives us panic attacks. We're talking about the kind of anxiety that makes you second guess if what you heard was the wind or if it was someone in the bushes breathing too loud. The type of anxiety that's lingering, that creates a foreboding fear that keeps us on edge. This type of anxiety is your body's way of keeping you on your toes in case you need to go into flight or fight to keep yourself away from danger.
The Axeman of New Orleans: Myths and Legends
00:02:45
Speaker
In and around 1910, New Orleans experienced this foreboding anxiety when a murderer was terrorizing the streets and many thought this person was a shadowy figure. Myths, urban legends, and lies have clung to this case like leeches and only fester the people of the time's fear of the unknown and the creeping darkness. As many in the community started to believe that these deaths were the cause of something supernatural, that fear only continued to spread across the community.
00:03:13
Speaker
These fabrications only grew and sometimes actually overshadowed the truth behind this figure in the darkness. This is the Axemen of New Orleans.
Hosts Introduction and Podcast Mission
00:03:58
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:18
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Okay, Allison.
00:04:37
Speaker
not planned. And I don't know why. Okay. But as my last episode was about a serial killer, this one is too. So I guess I'm just on a roll with you are killers. And you know, you were talking about your fear of the dark. I totally and I don't know why I think it goes in waves for me when I get scared versus I'll like be okay for a little bit.
Early Criminology and the Term 'Serial Killer'
00:05:02
Speaker
But recently, every night before I go to bed, even though I've been the only person with Rodney in my home, when I go to bed, I go in there and turn the flashlight on on my cell phone and I look under the bed before I climb in. And I don't know why.
00:05:22
Speaker
I don't do that but I do as of recently have started pulling the shower curtain back open so I can see in the shower and yeah it also with me comes in waves like sometimes I'm completely gone and then
00:05:39
Speaker
Sometimes I'm like, I better check that shower one more time. Even though I just got out and nobody was in there, there could be someone in there now. So now I will especially be doing it after your second serial killer episode.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yes, yeah. But I will say this case is much, much older, obviously, like the time around like 1910, 1920. So it spans a long time, but it is a lot older. So old, in fact, that this case happened before the term serial killer was even a thing. So we didn't have that terminology then, which is kind of neat to think about.
00:06:22
Speaker
Um, also just a heads up to people of New Orleans, New Orleans. I'm probably going to use them interchangeably because it's like Caribbean and Caribbean. I'm not really sure how it's supposed to be said. So I apologize if I'm saying it incorrectly in my ignorance. I think I say New Orleans. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like 98% positive that I interchange them.
00:06:49
Speaker
So it's fine. We're prepared. Yeah.
First Encounter with the Axeman
00:06:55
Speaker
So in my research, I read a lot about the fact that, you know, really criminology was in its infancy here in very early stages. There was no real understanding of what it meant or
00:07:13
Speaker
no real I guess concept maybe people couldn't grasp that what it meant for someone to be a serial killer because we actually didn't start using that term until much later I think it was first coined in like 1974 um this man named he was a FBI agent and profiler Robert Russell actually was giving a lecture
00:07:40
Speaker
at the British Police Academy in England in 1974. And he first coined the term serial killer then, which I thought was really interesting. Yeah. But he actually coined it because he heard the description of some crimes that were occurring in series. So rapes, arsons, burglaries, robberies, murders. And he said that this is all according to
00:08:09
Speaker
Author Scott Bone, he's a PhD, has a PhD he wrote on psychology today. Scott Bone and I are actually Facebook friends. Yes. Well, look at that. I'm quoting one of his articles today and you know famous person. Cool. So he wrote an article published in 2014 on psychology today.
00:08:33
Speaker
that was called origin of the term serial serial killer. And so he talks about, um, in this lecture, this FBI agent talking about reoccurring, you know, rapes, arson, burglaries and stuff. And that wrestler, that FBI agent said that the description reminded him of the movie industry term serial adventure, which referred to short films featuring like Batman, the lone ranger,
00:08:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm shown in theaters on Sunday afternoons during the 30s and 40s and each week The audience was kind of left on a cliffhanger So they were they were left wanting more that makes sense. I see the connection. Yeah Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm and the FBI agent recalled from his youth that no episode ever had a satisfactory conclusion and so he said similarly
00:09:27
Speaker
He believed that the conclusion of every murder for a given person and given serial killer increased the tension and desire to commit
00:09:36
Speaker
the more perfect crime in the future. So one step closer to what this article said was like an ideal fantasy. So it was on a cycle. So that's where the word serial came from. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Very, very intriguing and interesting information. So just as no satisfactory conclusion ever came in those minis that
00:10:02
Speaker
This FBI agent watched, so too. Does no satisfactory conclusion come in the four investigators of this case today? Much like last week.
00:10:14
Speaker
because serial killer cases are different. We're going to talk briefly about some of the victims, his or her interactions with the Axemen, and then kind of go into some of the theories that I've read about. We will start off
00:10:36
Speaker
relatively mild, if that's the correct term to use with people who were attacked and survived and then move into ones who, um, some survived and some did not with their encounters with Axemen. But I am anxious because you are so perceptive. So I am anxious to hear what similarities you're able to pick out from case to case and how you're going to profile this person. Oh, I'm ready. Okay.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yes and please note listeners and you too Allison that this person um was attacking people for an extremely long period of time and I think I talk about 10 to 12 different encounters with this guy so if I left any out um obviously it wasn't intentional but this was over a huge span of time and some
00:11:33
Speaker
incidents, incidents people said was the Axman some they didn't. So I tried to include as many as possible.
Conchetta and Davie Family Attacks
00:11:42
Speaker
So if I missed one, my apologies. Or if I've included one people think wasn't that with him. Also my apologies. Okay.
00:11:50
Speaker
So the first encounter oh, yeah and PS almost all of these are Italian so Apologies in advance that I'm gonna struggle pronouncing your names So encounter one
00:12:09
Speaker
the first couple that we're going to talk about fell prey to the accident of New Orleans on August 13th, 1910. So while most of America was asleep, so too was Harriet Crutus. That was until she jumped awake at 3 a.m. And Allison, have you ever been asleep, but you can feel in your sleep that someone is looking at you and it wakes you up?
00:12:38
Speaker
Um, no, but that is super creepy. I don't know what I would do if I actually did wake up and someone were looking at me.
00:12:50
Speaker
I can sometimes feel, and maybe not at three o'clock in the morning, but in that half awake, half asleep state, I can sometimes feel if Anthony is staring at me. But she said that she was sound asleep and that she felt someone was looking at her. And so she woke up from this peaceful dream she had, and she awoke to a living nightmare.
00:13:18
Speaker
Okay, and this is the mild one? She told investigators that someone was standing over her and was waving a bloody meat cleaver. Oh my goodness. Maggie, this is the first one? I know. But these people survive, so that's why I said this one was mild. Oh my goodness.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, so stunned obviously she sits up in bed because she clearly knows now that she is not having a nightmare and the figure shouted at her demanding like, give me all your money. And so, you know, she's still half asleep, but she looks over and sees a pool of blood covering her floor. And so that's when she's like, okay, this guy means business. Where was the blood coming from?
00:14:10
Speaker
Okay, glad you asked. So not only was there a pool of blood, her husband was actually laying in that pool of blood.
00:14:20
Speaker
So she wakes up, sees this guy standing over her, her husband's in a pool of blood. He's demanding money. And she's like, all right, I'm going to give you all the money that we have. And very early 1900s, she actually had the money hidden under, I read a box, a couple said a box and under the bed. Some said that it was like under her pillow, but they had their money in the bedroom and she hands over all the money that they have. And he's like, okay, thanks. And just leaves the room.
00:14:52
Speaker
Weird. Okay. Yeah. Did this guy have on like a mask? You know, that's a really good question. A lot of people said that he was so quiet that he was like a ghost, but I didn't read really anywhere where people really were able to give a lot of descriptions. Yeah.
00:15:17
Speaker
Most people said that they were like too shocked to really pay any attention to what he looked like. Okay. So he says, okay, thanks. And just walks away. Yeah. And as he's walking away, he actually takes the family's caged mockingbird.
00:15:32
Speaker
So he's carrying a caged walking bird and money, made his way outside. I know it's so crazy. It's like the ferret case. If this was at 3am, I feel like somebody would definitely have remembered seeing him. And even if I'm out at 3am, I'm definitely going to remember somebody walking down the street carrying a bird cage. Yeah, just casually carrying a walking bird in a bird cage.
00:15:58
Speaker
Um, but nobody recalls really seeing him. He dropped the meat cleaver in the yard, hops over the fence with the bird cage, walked like another block or so, um, stops and frees the bird and then just like carries on with his life. So he's an animal rights activist, but he's okay with, with, with hurting people. Yeah, attempted murder. Okay.
00:16:25
Speaker
When police arrived on the scene, they were able to reconstruct most of what had happened. So they were able to tell and this is so crazy to me and so specific that the intruder had used a railroad shoe pin. So like one of the spikes that hold the rails down to force the kitchen door open.
00:16:47
Speaker
Okay. And that they could tell by the state of the house that he had actually made his way through varying rooms until he came to the bedroom where the couple was asleep.
00:17:01
Speaker
Wow. I read that he first struck the husband once on the head and then the chest and the husband's name was August. He was actually a grocer. So he owned a grocery store. Um, he went to charity hospital for his injuries. They were deemed non-life threatening. The profile of the attacker composed from descriptions by Harriet, the wife, um,
00:17:30
Speaker
And so I lied to you. Actually, now I remember there actually was someone who saw him. They profiled him as a man in his like mid thirties. That was like five foot six was just very short for a man. I feel like broad shoulders, clean shaven, dark hair. He was wearing a man shirt, dark trousers and a hat. Hmm. Interesting.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah. So that is encounter one. Okay. I've got lots of details in my head, like the railroad tie that he used or the spike, what it looks like animal activist. All right. I'm with you. Okay. Let's keep going. Okay.
00:18:22
Speaker
So encounter two happened not long after the first attack. New Orleans was yet again struck with violence on September 20th, 1910 around 1 45 in the morning. So we're staying early morning hours. So when people are asleep,
00:18:44
Speaker
I am going to assume this lady's name is Conchetta, but she also, just like Harriet, was jolted from her sleep when a meat axe struck her in the face, breaking her jaw bone. Okay, this is escalating quickly. We're only on encounter two. And I'm wondering if this is like, I'm picturing like,
00:19:15
Speaker
and acts like you would chop down a tree. Is this what we're talking about? Are we talking about a meat grinder that you would hit? Yeah. Are we talking about something you would chop up a pig with? Are we talking about something you would hit a chicken breast with to tenderize it? Because I feel like there's a lot. There's some differences there.
00:19:37
Speaker
So she gets struck in the face with this meat cleaver and it breaks her jaw. But before she even had time to really react or cry out, she was hit a second time, but this time across the neck. And she at this point is obviously severely injured. Now. Yes. Concetta watched as the attacker moved towards her sleeping husband. But I do want to pause to say, because I feel like
00:20:08
Speaker
I feel like Rodney and Anthony are probably two very different sleepers. And I think it's because of the professions that they're in. I think Rodney, I might be wrong, but I feel he would be hypersensitive and probably a light sleeper because of his background in the fire department. So I feel Rodney would have already been awake at this point, like choking this person out. Anthony, however, could sleep through
00:20:37
Speaker
he could sleep through a bomb going off. So I definitely think he would also be able to sleep through me being violently beaten with an, like an axe or blunt force object. Like I don't know why I'm laughing because it's not funny, but yeah. Yeah. But it is like that. Tik TOK not funny. Ha ha. Yeah. I'll wake up when a dog sneezes or the, or the bathroom light turns on. Anthony would still be asleep. So.
00:21:05
Speaker
She watches her attacker move to her sleeping husband, Joseph, and actually the Axman hit him twice in the face. And again, seeming satisfied with the damage that he had caused, the Axman dropped his weapon, took nothing from their home, and left. Okay. All right. Well, this is
00:21:33
Speaker
bizarre to me. Okay. So no motive it seems in this case, other than violence. Yeah, unless the motive is just to hurt people. Right. It's just violence. And why leave his weapon? He's going to have to buy another weapon. Well, I actually read, I'm not sure about in these, but in cases later on that happened, he's actually using
00:22:01
Speaker
these home owners, meat cleavers, yeah, from the home, which is another level of creepy to me. It is, so he's going through their kitchen and finding these weapons. Okay, interesting.
00:22:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And just like in the first encounter, he actually jumps the fence in their front yard before he disappears. Amazingly, though, despite being wounded, Joseph was actually able to fire his revolver into the air, which drew the attention of his neighbors. And the neighbors come over to check on them, which kudos to the neighbors. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, it's 1910, 1911, 1910.
00:22:45
Speaker
uh telephones were not what they are today right right and um they come over to click on them and They actually take the couple to charity hospital yet again to the surprise of many of the medical staff that was treating them though both
00:23:03
Speaker
Joseph and Conchita survived their attack by the Axemen of New Orleans. So the fact that both of these people so far have been taken to the same hospital, does that say that these were taking place in a similar neighborhood area?
00:23:20
Speaker
Yes. So I don't want to say too much because I want to see if you pick up on some of it. But yeah. So all of them are except one are going to be in the same vicinity.
The Andelina and Maggio Family Attacks
00:23:36
Speaker
OK. And there's also other similarities with the people involved. OK.
00:23:42
Speaker
So encounter three is the Davey family and again in the wee early morning hours of June 27th 1911 Mary was jolted awake by movement in her bedroom Wow, I feel like I would never sleep but oh I would yeah never again in this encounter I
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, in this encounter, a strange man was actually going through like her closet wardrobe area. And at the time, you know, and I think any married person or, you know, person that's in the relationship would
00:24:23
Speaker
instinctually think that, instinctively think that it's their husband or spouse or girlfriend or whatever that's rummaging through the closet in the middle of the night. If I wake up in the middle of the night and someone's in the closet, I'm going to think it's Anthony. Exactly. Yeah.
00:24:39
Speaker
So she did too. She thought it was her husband. So she's like, why, what are you doing? Why are you in the closet at this crazy hour? And she was actually, and this gives me chills answered by a grunt from her husband who was sound asleep next to her. Oh my goodness.
00:25:05
Speaker
Oh my. Yeah. I would have cried in that moment. So the intruder hearing her. Oh yeah. I would have had a heart attack so I would have ended. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. The intruder at that moment hearing her speak turns around to face her and then again is like give me your money. So now we're back to a motive. So Mary is
00:25:36
Speaker
Not figuratively, literally, frozen by fear as I feel I would also be. And he's demanding, give me the money. Give me all of your money. And she's just frozen. And he gets so mad that he takes a porcelain mug and hits her across the face with this porcelain mug. Fasting the mug, obviously. No meat cleaver this time. OK. Nope.
00:26:05
Speaker
According to the history of yesterday, the Davie grocery store and the people that lived in this area, they lived on the outskirts of New Orleans about a mile from the, about a mile from the store. The attacker had actually gained access as quote, to the building through a window prod open with a railroad shoe pin. Okay. We're back to the bedroom door.
00:26:34
Speaker
That night, before he had gone to sleep, Joseph Davie had propped water bottles on top of the door as a makeshift intruder alarm, but the burglar had quietly disarmed the system, giving him access to the bedroom. This stealth meant that the attacker surprised a sleeping Joseph Davie before he could use his loaded revolver on the table next to him. Despite demands for money, the attacker hadn't stolen anything." Okay, here's what's going through my head first of all, right now.
00:27:02
Speaker
We're with a second grocery store owner, which is weird. So there's another connection. Obviously by this point, people had heard about this guy. That's why this Joseph Davie had done this makeshift intruder alarm. It would be my guess. But so now we're back to, it's the second time he's demanded money, but this time he again doesn't steal anything. Right. And so to me, it's just almost like he wants
00:27:33
Speaker
It goes back to that article that we talked about earlier. It's like he's trying to almost perfect what he's doing. Like he's just hurting people. Mm hmm. Thankfully, though, Mary Davey would recover and she was actually able to give a description of her attacker to investigators.
00:27:52
Speaker
um she said that he was a white man who didn't have an accent in his english so he was an italian which a lot of people in this neighborhood were as we've already said um he was clean shaven just under six feet tall so just like the other eyewitness
00:28:12
Speaker
Yep. Yep. He wore a working man shirt with trousers. Okay. So same. She was very adamant that his, his movements were ghost-like, but she told investigators that he must've been barefoot at the time because they, she's saying we would have woken up if we heard somebody walking around her house. So I think he must've been barefoot. Hmm.
00:28:38
Speaker
odd but okay. So the, yes, the husband could not provide any details about the attack because I read in another source that he was actually brutally beaten on the head. I didn't read in that source what he was beaten with.
00:28:59
Speaker
But I did read that his brain was actually visible. Oh my gosh So I'm gonna assume it's from that axe or the meat cleaver because what else would cause that you know my goodness Wow and their Home was broken into and they were attacked on the 27th and he actually passed away on the 28th from those wounds So obviously the violence is ramping up
00:29:28
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's what I was saying the bloody the bloody meat cleaver at the beginning Doesn't seem that bad now that we are having our brains right from being right in the head. Yeah. Yeah
00:29:41
Speaker
Encounter four happened to the and Alina family around 3 a.m. So again early morning on December 22nd 1911 Anna was sound asleep She opened her eyes because she heard some movement and saw a man standing a lot of these are the are the women Seeing this guy first
00:30:05
Speaker
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, which is kind of weird to me because I see I would assume if I was breaking into somebody's house, I would want to subdue the man first because they're going to be stronger. Yeah.
00:30:18
Speaker
and I would want to catch them by surprise and not the woman. She sees this man standing over her and her husband Epiphonio, which I'm sure I'm butchering and I apologize, but this man seemed to have appeared out of nowhere. She sells investigators much like a ghost. This time the intruder was armed with the like me cleaver hatchet top thing and a revolver.
00:30:46
Speaker
Cleverly though, Anna did not say a word when she opened her eyes and saw the stranger in the room. So she's laying in bed, opens her eyes, sees the guy standing there, and she just remains silent. I'm assuming pretending to still be asleep. But this dude is super smart and it's almost like he had a sixth sense, you know? And he could, she said it was almost like he could sense that she was awake.
00:31:16
Speaker
Gosh. So when he notices that she's awake, he points the pistol at her and he's like, be quiet or else. And so she just lays there frozen with this fear yet again. And according to my research, this man actually, um, hit Anna's husband four or five times.
00:31:44
Speaker
before the man turned and ran into the adjoining room. So he attacks the husband, hitting him like four or five times, and then runs to the next room. And Anna said, quote, as he did so, I began to scream. At the same time, I heard my son scream, Mama, Mama. I ran into his room and found both John and Salvador out of bed crying. The hatchet man had passed back through my room to the kitchen and got away in a boat.
00:32:15
Speaker
So John and Salvador are her kids. Oh my gosh. Wow. I would have been flipping out like worried about my kids. Oh yeah.
00:32:33
Speaker
I think it definitely points for her bravery that she was able to lay there and not give away immediately that she had kids in the adjoining room because I immediately would have been freaking out. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:50
Speaker
Crazily though, Allison, the attacker had gone into her son's room, so the two of them, John and Salvador, but had not fatally wounded them. He actually hit both of them on the head, scaring them, and then ran back and escaped through the kitchen. Hmm. And so as I said, the husband had been struck like four or five times and sustained serious injuries, but he and his sons, and obviously the wife, because she wasn't hit, would go on to survive.
00:33:18
Speaker
The Axman this time had gained entry to their house by chiseling out a section of their back door, taking care to do so quietly in order not to wake anybody up inside the house or their neighbors because I feel like
00:33:35
Speaker
That would not be an easy thing to do and remain quiet if you're chiseling at a back door. Like you have patience. You have been there for a while. Yeah. That's what I was getting ready to say. Each of these, even when you're disarming the water bottle makeshift alarm, this guy is not in a hurry. It reminds me of what's that really creepy case where like the person was eating food out of their refrigerator.
00:34:02
Speaker
That happened, well, I mentioned that it was in an Unsolved Mysteries episode that creeped me out. But we talked about it in China and Lake Dickus, in that case. They had eaten out of people's fridges, yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah, like they're just taking time like making themselves at home. And yet again, this attack was on an Italian grocery store owner in the New Orleans area. Bizarre. So we've talked about four encounters with him. So up to this point, what characteristics do you see in these different attacks or the person themselves? Okay.
00:34:49
Speaker
We have someone who is not in a rush. We have someone who doesn't necessarily care about being seen. It seems as though it's doing this for violence sake, but the violence is targeted toward the husbands.
00:35:13
Speaker
because even if the wives get hit, they're bearing injuries that are recoverable versus men. So wives and children, it doesn't seem as though they are necessarily the target, but they're like weird things. Like that's odd that he's okay with murdering these husbands and yet doesn't necessarily want to harm
00:35:42
Speaker
say the children or animals or things like that. So there's some weird like, I don't know, psyche issues going on here. And it's weird to me that they're all or mostly all Italian grocers. Yeah. Very specific. Yes, very specific.
00:36:01
Speaker
Okay. So encounter number five is the Maggio family on May 23rd, 1918. Andrew, there are two different, um, accounts of this that I read. So in one account, Andrew is sleeping and at four 30 in the morning, he wakes up because he hears like loud
00:36:25
Speaker
groaning screaming noises coming from the apartment slash house beside of his another Thing that I read was that Andrew had been out drinking and was on his way home and as he is passing by The apartment or house beside of his there once that house once that apartment He hears
00:36:52
Speaker
like people in anguish. And the people that lived in this house was actually his brother and his sister-in-law. Oh, so he is definitely going to go check it out.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah, and so either way either he was asleep or he was you know Fully asleep because he was just you know at 4 30 in the morning He was falling asleep because he had been drunk that day. He was passing the house either way He hears some disturbing noises coming from his brother's house so he knows they're in trouble and as you said he jumps right into action so he actually
00:37:27
Speaker
runs to get help. Reports said that he actually went to his other brother's house. His name is Jacob and informed him that Joseph, their brother and Catherine, their sister-in-law were in some type of trouble. And so immediately the two sprint back to Joseph and Catherine's apartment. So I'm assuming that they all must live close.
00:37:54
Speaker
maybe like in this yeah maybe even in the same like quote unquote house and they're all in these like different apartments yeah close enough that he can run there right
00:38:05
Speaker
So when the two men entered through the back of the house, they found a kitchen door panel lying on the ground. They went deeper into the home until they got to the bedroom. And the scene that the two found, according to the article, Louisiana True Crime, the New Orleans Axeman who murdered Italian grocers and fond of jazz, that was actually published on a website called, yeah, it gets really specific, said this about the crime scene.
00:38:34
Speaker
Quote, Joseph, an Italian grocer, was still alive when Andrew found him, but died minutes later. Catherine's throat was cut so severely that her head was nearly off her shoulders. A bloody razor belonging to Andrew's barbershop was the primary murder weapon.
00:38:56
Speaker
Questioning how Andrew couldn't hear the forced entry of a crazed axe murder, the police arrested Andrew as a primary suspect of the murder of the Italian couple. However, police soon found out that Andrew was not the murderer. Instead, they attributed this killing to the man who would soon terrorize Louisiana, the Axeman of New Orleans, end quote. Wow.
00:39:22
Speaker
So this is obviously one of those. A barber's razor is like a long, sharp one, because I'm thinking of like barber of civet, you know, like, but wow. So again, grocer.
00:39:38
Speaker
again more gruesome couple it's it's like he's targeting there are couples it's it's not ever just one person it doesn't seem like um but now obviously no matter who crosses his path is going to be a victim yeah and this time you're right it is a lot more gruesome the couple's throats
00:39:58
Speaker
Were cut with that razor and before he left the Axman actually bashed their heads in with his meat cleaver axe thing and Many people who researched and reported on this killing spree believed He did this to conceal their real cause of death like almost as if he was ashamed that he slit their throats instead of Just chopping their heads up That seems a weird How that's weird
00:40:27
Speaker
And Joseph would survive the initial attack. He didn't die right away. He died minutes after being discovered by his brothers. And one article said that in the home, law enforcement agents found the bloody clothes of the murderer and that they believed he changed into a clean set of clothes before fleeing the scene. I know. And like, what's frustrating is
00:40:56
Speaker
I feel that if this had happened in the time of DNA evidence, this person would have been caught. Oh, yeah. Because if you're just changing your clothes and leaving them there, your DNA is quite clearly going to be on those clothes. Oh, and all of those murder weapons that he just dropped and left. Yeah, because he, yeah, because he also drops this one. The razor was found in a neighbor's yard. Yeah. Wow.
Besumer and Joseph Romano Attacks
00:41:22
Speaker
And I did read that searches of the
00:41:26
Speaker
premises weren't done the day that the bodies were removed from the home and that even when they were done, they weren't done thoroughly, but the thoroughly in 1911, whatever, early 1900s, I feel would not be the same as what we would describe that today.
00:41:47
Speaker
There were reports by one of Andrew's employees Esteban that Andrew had removed the razor from his shop like two days before the murderer or the murder explaining that he would have had that at home. And so that's why he initially was arrested, but it was never, that was never really proven though.
00:42:13
Speaker
Encounter number six is Louie Besumer and his mistress Harriet Lowe. So we have another Harriet because when I was researching this, I said, hold up Maggie, are you getting confused? But no, there's two Harriets. Okay. So this couple was attacked in the early morning hours of June 27th, 1918. So we are staying on track with we are attacking people in their sleep.
00:42:43
Speaker
And we're now like eight years old Tom passes. Hold on. Did I say that the module was in 1911 because it was definitely also in 1918. So if I did that just disregard but we have had some time pass between Anna and then
00:43:02
Speaker
the Maggio family and then now we are in 1918 with Louie and Harriet. So this couple was attacked in the early morning hours of June 27th and again in the quarters that back to his grocery store. Oh my god. This guy is in the grocery people. Yeah. Why are we killing the people that give us food. They're my favorite. I don't. Yeah.
00:43:33
Speaker
Hmm, weird. But much like the victims in Encounter Five, these two met a horrific end. So Louis was struck with a hatchet above his right temple, which resulted in a skull fracture, obviously. Harriet was hacked over the left ear and found unconscious when police arrived on the scene. So both take direct hits to the face.
00:44:03
Speaker
Also similarly to the couple in encounter five, these two were discovered after the attack took place. So there was nobody there at the initial attack. Whereas in some of the earlier ones, you know, we have the spouse that could recall things. These people were found after the attack took place. Okay.
00:44:27
Speaker
Harriet and Louie were found around 7 a.m on the morning of their attack by a man named John. And John was actually one of the delivery men for the store and it just so happened to be the day that it was like his delivery day for Louie's store. So he stops that morning on his delivery route and then when he's trying to make the delivery and trying to find the store owners he stumbles upon their bodies.
00:44:57
Speaker
Oh gosh. So John found both Louis and Harriet in puddles of their own blood and they were still actually bleeding from their heads. The axe, which belonged to Louis, was found in the bathroom of the apartment. So again, the guy is kind of truffling through and always leaving behind the murder weapon. What's crazy to me?
00:45:24
Speaker
is that Louie did not actually die from his attack because remember he gets hit like in the face. Oh yeah. Louie was actually able to tell police exactly what happened. Louie said that he was sleeping when someone hit him with an ax and woke him up from asleep from his sleep. So
00:45:47
Speaker
you know, very similar to all of the other ones. They're, you know, dead asleep, sleeping peacefully. They get struck with acts and they're woken up.
00:45:55
Speaker
Police almost immediately arrested a potential subject and his name was Louis. So Louis and Louis. Okay. He was an African-American man who was an employee of Louis. He had worked, he was working in the store and had been there just about a week before the attacks happened. There was absolutely no evidence
00:46:21
Speaker
which could have proved this man was guilty, but police still arrested him despite this lack of evidence. According to the police, they're saying Lewis had, yeah, and I feel like so indicative of the time period that we're in. We're just going to assume this man's guilt.
00:46:43
Speaker
According to the police, this is why they arrested him. They say that he had offered conflicting accounts of his whereabouts on the morning of the attack. So that's why he was arrested.
00:46:54
Speaker
He gave two different supposedly accounts of what was going on. Some articles that I read said that Harriet actually told the police that it wasn't an African American man who attacked them. She's like, you all are crazy. This was a white man that attacked us. Just like all the other people.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But law enforcement are like, you're a woman. You've been through quite an ordeal. You clearly are just confused. So you have zero credibility and we're just going to completely disregard what you have said about the attacker skin color because you are clearly in shock.
00:47:41
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that's so sad. Eventually though, and thankfully Lewis was released as he should have been, according to an article called Cold Cases, Famous Unsolved Murders, Mysteries, and Disappearances in America, media attention actually turned from Lewis himself
00:48:03
Speaker
When a trunk was discovered in Louie's home with all of these like letters in it and Harriet kind of, I don't know if it was out of spite or maybe it was true, but police and Harriet kinda suspected that Louie was a German spy. And so they,
00:48:29
Speaker
take these letters into custody weeks later after going in and out of consciousness. Harriet tells police that she also thinks that Louie is a spy and so they arrest him. But two days later he was released. And actually I read in that same cold cases article that two lead investigators of the case were demoted because of this incident that it was quote unacceptable police work. Gotcha.
00:48:58
Speaker
All right, encounter seven is Anna Schneider. Anna was attacked in the early hours of August the 5th, 1918. So we're still in 1918. This is scary to imagine, but Anna, who was eight months pregnant at the time,
00:49:16
Speaker
Again, woke from her sleep to find a dark figure standing over top of her. Sounds super familiar. When the figure noticed that she was awake, he bashed her face over and over and over and over again. Her scalp had been cut open and her face was covered in blood.
00:49:39
Speaker
thankfully and this one I feel like is almost sort of a little it's out there from the other ones because we're attacking the wife right yeah so in these later encounters some things change but hours later thankfully Anna was discovered by her husband Ed. Ed actually had to work late that day and so he was just getting home
00:50:03
Speaker
Not surprisingly, though, Anna could not recall any significant details about what had happened to her when she was attacked. Right. But her husband told police nothing was stolen from their home besides like the five or six dollars that had been left in a wallet. So really nothing. Yeah. So essentially nothing. And from what he could tell, it appeared that none of the doors or windows had been forced open. And
00:50:31
Speaker
What's crazy, Allison, is, you know, typically we're with the razor blade, we're with the axe, you know, things like that. Do you want to know what this weapon was? Yeah, so sharp things, but you want to know what this one was? What? He actually used Anna's bedside lamp. Oh my goodness. Well, now it makes me want to get rid of my bedside lamps.
00:50:57
Speaker
So thanks for that, Mackie. Yeah, exactly. I have a feather, a light up feather. That's what I'll get. Yeah, exactly. I'll just get night vision goggles. Right. Yeah. But at this point now, lead investigators are actually starting to publicly
00:51:19
Speaker
kind of speculate that the attack on Anna could also be related to the attacks on the Maggio family and the attack on Louis and Harriet. Well, I'm thinking they should have figured this out before now with all the attacks on Italian grocers. Yeah, because we're now on attack number eight. Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. We're just, we're just, who are we? Yeah.
00:51:46
Speaker
So this one is yet again a family but this time it's Joseph Romano and Pauline and Mary Bruno. So Joseph was an elderly man that was living with his two nieces Pauline and Mary. I wondered why there were two female names. I was like uh-oh is this a little risque relationship going on in the yeah okay so he's with his nieces. Yeah
00:52:12
Speaker
So this is just like two days after the attack on Anna on August 10th, 1918. Mary and Pauline said that they were asleep and woke to just like a big bunch of commotion happening in their uncle's room. So the two run to his room and bust through the door and they
00:52:37
Speaker
So the two sisters discovered their uncle had received a serious blow to the head and had two large open cuts. And as they're busting through the door, the attacker was fleeing the scene. So they're coming in and he's going out. I'm assuming through a window, though I didn't read that, but where else could he have gone out? Right, right.
00:53:03
Speaker
So despite the fact that he's actually fleeing the scene, the sisters were able to get a pretty good description of the guy. They said that he was a heavyset man. He had on a darkish suit. He had tan or dark skin, but again, it's not time. So I do feel like unless you're up close and personal skin color could be a little
00:53:29
Speaker
Still, even a heavyset and all that, that doesn't fit with, unless this man's gained a lot of weight in the eight years, then maybe he's stealing from the grocery stores after these accounts. It's catching up to him. I'm not, I don't know. This one seems off to me.
00:53:50
Speaker
Um, Joseph, like I said, was seriously injured, but was actually able to walk to the ambulance. And this sounds so much like my puppy. I could have seen him doing the exact same thing. Like I know I was just attacked, but I'm walking to the ambulance. Right. Right. Sadly though, Joseph died two days later from that severe head trauma.
00:54:11
Speaker
According to police reports on all that I read, the home had been ransacked, but again, no items were stolen. So very similar to almost all the other encounters with this potential accident of New Orleans.
00:54:28
Speaker
And it's almost like I feel that this person has no idea who they want to be. Like, do they want to be a thief? Do they want to be a murderer? Do they just want to attack people? I don't think that they know. Or maybe they, maybe somebody was like, listen, one of these Italian grocers has this government secret, but we don't know which one it is. So you've got to break into their houses and find it.
00:54:56
Speaker
And it's almost like he's ransacking looking for something, but then each one he breaks into, he's not finding it. So maybe the Axman of New Orleans is the German spy. Right. Who's looking for something. And then obviously what he does. Yeah. So there you go. New potential theory. Potential theory. I did read that authorities found the bloody butcher's axe.
00:55:24
Speaker
in the backyard and discovered that a panel of the back door had been chiseled away. So very much like the other.
00:55:32
Speaker
As you can imagine, by this point, New Orleans is in a complete state of panic. So there are crazy reports coming into the police station. They're calling over everything, every little shadowy figure that could possibly be a man police are calling into the or people are calling into the police station. They're just.
00:55:55
Speaker
overwhelmed with what's going on. Investigators did say that the person, so this Axman, was very much a Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde, so he would blend in during the day and seem completely normal and then turn into this psycho meat cleaver throwing crazy man at night time.
00:56:21
Speaker
So he would seem like a law abiding citizen, but then just like was overcome when the sun went down with this urge to kill people. Wow. Wonder why the break though of a few years. I don't know. And I don't know if like, maybe we just don't, like they hadn't made the connection that some, maybe that happened in that time we're here, you know?
00:56:47
Speaker
Or I was thinking, like, if you have theories, if you could explain why, like, maybe he was away during part of this time or, you know what I mean? Like, then- I did think there might be one theory that the dude was in jail during some of the time. Oh, okay. I think. Okay. So, encounter number nine is the Court of Mingla family.
Cortimiglia Attack and Public Frenzy
00:57:12
Speaker
Charles was an Italian immigrant who lived with his wife Rosie and their infant daughter Mary in New Orleans, or no, a suburb of New Orleans, sorry, just across the Mississippi River. So already this encounter is an outlier because we are crossing into another state. So we're going from Louisiana to Mississippi. Right.
00:57:39
Speaker
on March 10th, not Tay, not Tayne, so a few months have passed. Witnesses said that screams were heard coming from...
00:57:48
Speaker
the house of Rosie and Charles. So one of their neighbors heard screams and rushed to their home. He said when he got there it was evident that the three had been attacked by someone. He actually said that Rosie was in the doorway with a serious head wound and was actually holding the deceased daughter Mary in her arms.
00:58:11
Speaker
I know. I know this one is a lot more gruesome than some of the other ones. Yeah. He said that Charles was actually on the floor bleeding profusely. The couple was again rushed to Charity Hospital. So we're saying right in that little neighborhood.
00:58:30
Speaker
where both were diagnosed with skull fractures. Again, nothing was stolen from the house, but a back panel of the door had been chiseled away and a bloody meat axe was found on the back porch of the home. So, I mean, so characteristic, you know.
00:58:51
Speaker
Thankfully, Charles was released two days later. His wife did remain for some time in the care of doctors. But after regaining consciousness, Rosie actually made several claims that this neighbor who ran to their rescue and his 18-year-old son Frank were the attackers that attempted to kill them. Oh, I wonder why she said that.
00:59:20
Speaker
Well, a lot of people have problems with this claim of hers. So the neighbor was 69 years old and was in really poor health. So a lot of people are like, how could this old man that is
00:59:38
Speaker
already in poor health do such a physical crime, like he's hitting you all with the meat axe. Like that seems kind of improbable. And the son, many said, was actually too large to fit through the panel in the back door. So he also really couldn't have been responsible for
01:00:01
Speaker
this attack and even Rosie's husband is like no it's not either of these men she's mistaken so even the husband's like no nonetheless the two were arrested and initially charged with a murder and they would actually be found guilty Frank so the son was sentenced to
01:00:26
Speaker
be hanged. I hate saying that. I feel so wrong. And his father was sentenced to life in prison. But again, Charles is like, this is not what happened. And he actually divorces Rosie because he's like, you know, these are not the people responsible for what happened to us. And about a year later, Rosie actually publicly announced that she falsely accused the two.
01:00:55
Speaker
because I guess almost like a grieving process, kind of out of spot that they were still alive and healthy and her family was, you know, injured and torn up. And her statement saying, I know, like,
01:01:10
Speaker
She's petty with a capital P. Yeah. Her statement, though, was the only evidence against the two. And so when she recants her statement, they're released from jail. Now, can you imagine that? They were the dad was going to die in prison and the son was going to be hanged and you would have been responsible for it. Wow. I know. It's crazy to me.
01:01:34
Speaker
So we have three, um, short encounters left. So encounter 10 is Steve Baca, who was also a grocer. He was attacked on August the 10th, 19 19 while he was also asleep in his bed. Again, there's a dark figure looming over him, just as in like basically everyone. Steve was, um, Stephen was knocked unconscious and his head actually like was cracked open from the blow to the head.
01:02:04
Speaker
Once again, a panel on the back door had been chiseled out so that the intruder could make his way into the home. Steven did recover from his injuries, but in much like, in many of the other cases, couldn't really remember much about the details of the night of his attack. Wow. Yeah, I mean, that's traumatic. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I actually read, so this attack on Steven,
01:02:34
Speaker
came on the tail end of like a bit of publicity about this potential axeman of New Orleans. So apparently after the attack on Rosie and her husband and their daughter, somebody published a letter
01:02:59
Speaker
in a magazine claiming to be this Axman. So I actually have the letter in its entirety here. So it says, hell, March 13th, 19, 19. Oh, creeped out already. Okay. Yeah. As in like the location.
01:03:21
Speaker
Esteemed mortal. They have never taught me, and they never will. They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth. I am not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you New Orleans and your foolish police call the Axemen. When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they shall be.
01:03:50
Speaker
I shall leave no clue except my bloody axe, besmeared with blood and brains of whom I have sent below to keep me company.
01:04:02
Speaker
If you wish, you may tell the police to be more careful not to rile me. Of course, I'm a reasonable spirit. I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but his satanic majesty, Francis Joseph, etc. But tell them to beware. Let them not try to discover what I am.
01:04:28
Speaker
for it were better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the Axmen. I don't think there is any need of such a warning, for I feel sure the police will always dodge me as they have in the past. They are wise and know how to keep away from harm. Undoubtedly, you New Orleans think of me as the most terrible murderer, which I am, but I could be much worse if I wanted to.
01:04:52
Speaker
I wish I could pay a visit to your city every night. At will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relations with the Angel of Death. Now, to be exact, at 1215 earthly time,
01:05:06
Speaker
On next Tuesday night, I'm going to pass over New Orleans. In my infinite mercy, I'm going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is. I'm very fond of jazz music, and I swear by the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in those homes a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well,
01:05:30
Speaker
than some so much better for you people. One thing is certain, and that is that some of you who do not jazz it out on that specific Tuesday night, if there be any, will get the axe. Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus, and as it's about time I'll leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse, hoping that thou wilt publish this, that it may go well with thee,
01:05:56
Speaker
I have been, am, and will be the worst spirit that ever existed either in fact or realm of fantasy. Sond the Axemen. Okay. I'm thoroughly creeped out. This reminded me a hundred percent of the Watcher episode. Of the Watcher, yeah. With the spirit and the fact that he keeps saying like you earthly people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like he views himself as some sort of like different spirit
01:06:26
Speaker
But at the same time, you best believe I'd have me some jazz playing. Oh, and people did. That was in a lot of my research. There were actual music halls that put on concerts for people to go to during this specific time. This sounded very much Old Testament, like paint your door with blood to avoid.
01:06:55
Speaker
Like the plagues. It was very creepy. So encounter 11, so this one is next to last, was Sarah Lawman. This theory comes from cold cases, famous, unsolved mysteries, crimes, and disappearances in America that we have talked about. And according to this publication, Sarah was attacked on the night of September 3rd, 1919. And for some reason, I'm not sure if they were being nice or if they were concerned.
01:07:24
Speaker
but neighbors were just like, you know what? I feel like we need to go check on Sarah. Um, she lives alone. So let's just make sure she's okay. And when she didn't answer, they become concerned and actually break into her house and they discover her lying unconscious on her bed. She had a serious head injury and I was actually missing several teeth, which I find weird. And I don't know what that means. Like,
01:07:51
Speaker
she was hit so hard in the face of her teeth fall out or, you know. Yeah, they're pulled. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to go with knocked because. The other two, but the word, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't say had knocked out several teeth. It says was missing. So yeah, it says missing. Yeah. And that was right from that cold case. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
01:08:21
Speaker
But the intruder had entered the apartment through an open window. He had attacked the woman. He left the axe per usual on the front lawn. And she was lucky enough that she recovered from her injuries, but again, did not recall any significant details of the attack. The last one was on the
01:08:43
Speaker
Peptones. Mike Peptone was attacked on the night of October 27, 1919. His wife again sound asleep, hears a noise, wakes up to see
01:08:58
Speaker
a very crazy man wielding an axe and fleeing the scene. And her husband had actually been hit in the head and was covered in his own blood. I read in that same cold cases thing that Mike actually, there was blood splatter from his injuries over the majority of their room, including a painting of the Virgin Mary. Oh gosh, what an image.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, the two had six children as well, but none of the people who saw the attacker could give any characteristics of the killer. And as far as we know, the murder of Mike was the last murder of the Axman, as far as we know. Okay. Hmm.
01:09:54
Speaker
So we're going to talk now about some theories and just really the case in general. Okay. And you know, we've already talked about how creepy it is that this axe is
01:10:12
Speaker
on the property of most of the victims. Very rarely did he bring his own murder
Axeman Theories and Reflections on Fear
01:10:18
Speaker
weapon. Most of the time he's taking it from the house, so there's that similarity. The chiseling of the door panels, another thing. Yep, the railroad spike. And just how much time all of this would take. Uh-huh. And because he's trying not to make noise,
01:10:41
Speaker
the crimes obviously most were not motivated by robbery the perpetrator never really removed items from the home there were some that he took money but and the bird but i mean most of the time he left without taking anything so you know i don't
01:10:57
Speaker
I don't know. Like I said, it's like he doesn't really know who he wants to be. According to the book Serial Murder and Media Circuses, the majority of the Axman's victims were Italian immigrants and we talked about that, specifically Italian grocers. And this led many to believe that the crimes were ethically motivated. So perhaps he doesn't
01:11:21
Speaker
have a motive as far as burglary or murder but more motive as I want to hurt this specific ethnicity. Many media outlets sensationalized this aspect of the crime and said that there could have been like mafia involvement despite any lack of, you know, despite a lack of evidence there. Some suggested that the killings were related to sex and that the murderer was perhaps like a sadist who was
01:11:49
Speaker
Seeking female victims because you know, they most of them were couples Yeah, but then he didn't hurt the women or try to take them or try to do anything. So I don't know about that one
01:12:01
Speaker
right in most cases yeah unless maybe he was just hoping that he could maybe use a creep and i was hoping he could catch him in that like an intimate act you know i don't know there were a couple criminologists again in this book that said the axman killed male victims only when they obstructed his attempts to murder women
01:12:21
Speaker
And this they said was supported by cases in which the women of the household or people were saying that there were cases where the women of the household were murdered but not the men. So again, it's just
01:12:36
Speaker
Nothing makes sense. This same book says a less plausible theory is that the killer committed murders in an attempt to promote jazz music, which makes absolutely no sense to me, but again, I'm not a murderer. Who's going to be like, I'm going to kill all of these people so that jazz music can become a great thing and everybody will start loving it because I love it so much. That makes sense. Yeah, I don't understand that.
01:13:04
Speaker
So obviously the Axman has never been caught or identified and given the time period, it doesn't really surprise me. But giving the amount of encounters and brutality of the murders, it does terrify me. Yes, 100%.
01:13:19
Speaker
The Criminal Minds fandom website actually had a couple different interesting theories. I think there's like three or maybe four. So one was this guy named Joseph Mumfire and according to this fandom, crime writer Colin Wilson based on an account by author Robert
01:13:42
Speaker
Talent suspected Joseph and his last name is spelled several different ways. M-U-M-F-R-E-M-O-N-F-R-E-M-O-M-F-R-E-M-A-N-F-R-E. So, something like mum-free.
01:13:59
Speaker
Mumfrey, yeah, something along those lines. But Mumfrey was allegedly shot to death in December of 1920 in Los Angeles by the widow of Mike. So that last encounter that we talked about. So this criminal writer, Colin Wilson, speculated that the wife killed in order to gain revenge for her husband's murder.
01:14:29
Speaker
So this goes on to say that Mumvery approached her
01:14:34
Speaker
who by this point was already remarried to her second husband and demanded $500 in jewelry. Mumfrey threatened that if she didn't cooperate, he would kill her the same way he killed her husband. And that's when she fatally shoots him. And I read that she shot him like 11 times, but was acquitted on the grounds of self-defense.
01:15:01
Speaker
So she really thought he did it because I think that act of shooting 11 times shows that she really thought he did it.
01:15:11
Speaker
Yeah. And you ask about like that gap in time. Yeah. A lot of people said that Mumfrey was actually in jail from 19 11 to 19 18, which means that he could have been responsible for, um, some of those attacks, depending on when he went to jail. Interesting. There
01:15:36
Speaker
are some people that say there's not any evidence about this quote-unquote Joseph Mumfrey and the widow
01:15:48
Speaker
This is per fandom, but true crime writer Michael Newton says, quote, nowadays, Wilson's theory is considered to be an urban legend. On the other hand, sources reveal there may have been a man called Joseph Mumfrey, with all those spellings, in New Orleans connected to the organized crime and accused of committing a bombing in 1907. However, local records for the period are not extensive enough to positively identify the individual.
01:16:16
Speaker
Two of the alleged early victims of the accident, an Italian couple named, I'm just going to spell it because I can't say it. It is S-C-H-I-M-B-R-A Shombra were shot by an intruder in their home in 1912. The prompt suspect was referred to the name of Mumfrey multiple times. So this dude's saying, there's really no
01:16:45
Speaker
like plausible, like we can't really find any for sure information on this dude. He's also says that this like Mumfrey could have been an alias type situation. So again, really just talking it up to urban legend.
01:17:06
Speaker
Theory two is Andrew Maggio. Okay, we know he was briefly considered as a suspect because of the straight razor that was used to kill the brother and sister-in-law was his.
01:17:21
Speaker
Again, he was cleared by police. He was released. Authorities said that they were unable to verify like really any of the statements that were given against him. So they let him go. I just don't believe that one because number one, he went to go get his other brother. And number two, even when they got back, the brother who was attacked was still alive for just a little bit. And so I feel like that'd be awfully dangerous.
01:17:48
Speaker
because if your brother could speak or indicate something, he could have said, you know, pointed to him as the killer. So I don't know if I believe that one. Yeah.
01:18:00
Speaker
Theory 3 is a man named Emmett Daniels. He was a World War I veteran and he was charged in 1917 with the murder of two women in Belgium in 1915. And some people suspected him of more murders, but he was actually acquitted on all accounts. So his time in Europe could.
01:18:25
Speaker
account for that missing slot of time, you know? One member of his battalion claimed that Daniels actually killed a woman with an axe and kept beating her with like the blunt end of it. So that fits part of it. Yeah. And theory number four, my personal favorite is that it was a vampire. Oh my. Hence the letter.
01:18:52
Speaker
Yeah. So one theory, I mean, very unlikely, obviously, um, was proposed by actually the investigators, um, because the killer managed to get into houses without a trace. And some of the investigators at this time believed him to have supernatural abilities and the bloody nature of the crime scene. So again, according to this fandom, led police to suspect that it was like a vampire, but obviously
01:19:20
Speaker
This theory has now been rolled out. What do you think Allison? The victims wouldn't be laying in a puddle of blood because a vampire would have already sucked it up. Yes, sucked the blood. I'm going to go obviously with either theory one or theory three. There's a lot that seems to back up theory one. However, you said with the dates when he was in jail, it would mean that
01:19:48
Speaker
he could have been responsible for some of the attacks, but not all of them, which kind of makes me, I know you don't have a lot of backup for it, but theory three,
01:20:00
Speaker
with the World War I veteran only because there was a member of his battalion who said that he had seen this gentleman or this man also kill somebody with an axe and to beat her with it. And that's so similar to the crimes that
01:20:23
Speaker
I feel like that's interesting. And I also feel like, and again, I don't know this for sure, but I feel like, you know, if you're fighting in war, you're probably used to doing things very quietly so you are not caught. So now why the connection to Italian grocers specifically? I don't know. I think that would be interesting if you could find a link between Emmett Daniels and that.
01:20:49
Speaker
Yeah, I really do think they were racially motivated though. Maybe there is some credit to being leery of the darkness. It seems that all scary things happen when the sun goes down, especially in today's case. I know that this fear or anxiety of the dark was an evolutionary thing, but maybe our ancestors were onto something. I hope that one day we find out who the Axemen is. I doubt we will ever know for sure.
01:21:17
Speaker
because so much time has passed. If we have learned anything from today's case, it's probably that while we often laugh about the sphere of the dark, there's some merit in it. If anything, I hope that we learn that it's okay to be a little more cautious in the dark. Double checking our surroundings is never a bad thing.
01:21:35
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:22:05
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:22:28
Speaker
Hello, sleuth hounds. It is now time for our love notes. I do want to give a little bit of a disclaimer. We had pre-recorded the last episode because our normal night of recording, Maggie had a Backstreet Boys concert.
01:22:47
Speaker
And I wanted to wait as long as possible to give as many love notes as we can from this past week. So I am recording our love notes solo, but never fear the love is from both of us. So I wanted to send some love note shout outs for those who reached out to us on social media and email this past week. So love goes out to Savannah.
01:23:13
Speaker
Vera, Jennifer, Dana, Amanda, Stephanie, and Monica. Thank you so much for either reaching out with case suggestions or for suggesting our podcast on the Facebook groups that you're in.
01:23:28
Speaker
And we also have a five star written review this week from Kelly five to three. And she said, I actually found coffee and cases when an episode was mentioned on a different true crime podcast. I looked you ladies up that night and have been listening every day since then just to catch up on the episodes.
01:23:46
Speaker
I love the way you show dignity and respect to every single one of the cases you cover. I'm 100% a true crime junkie. I've honestly seen or heard most cases that are out there, so I think it's amazing that you give a voice to the not so popular ones. Listening to you ladies makes it feel like I'm right there at the table having the conversation with you.
01:24:05
Speaker
Thank you for what you guys do. I'm a co-teacher in a special needs classroom, and honest to God, I don't see how you ladies find the time to squeeze in a podcast on top of everything else you do every day, but I'm super glad you do. Love, Miss Kelly.
01:24:22
Speaker
Thank you so much, Kelly, that review. Oh, it made us so happy. I shared it with Maggie immediately when I saw it. And we love that our teacher friends are out there listening to us as well. And thank you so much for your support. So all of our love is going out to all of you. Until next week, Sleuth Hounds.