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E273: Daniel Furr
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July 1995. Ada, Oklahoma. A small city with a long memory for tragedy. When 15-year-old Daniel Furr vanished, the search ended in a place that seemed to hold more questions than answers — the bottom of an abandoned brick quarry. What happened to Daniel in the days before a body was found has become the subject of rumor, fear, and conflicting theories that still divide those who knew him. Was it gang retaliation? A robbery gone wrong? Or — as his own mother fears — was it not Daniel in the pit at all? This is the story of a boy, a mystery, and a community still looking for the truth.
If you have information about the case of Daniel Furr, please contact OSBI at (800) 522–8017 or email information to tips@osbi.ok.gov.
To hear more from our guest Raven Rollins, listen to Sirens: A Southern True Crime Podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and find her books at thesirenspodcast.com.
If you are interested in bonus content for our show or in getting some Coffee and Cases swag, please consider joining Patreon. There are various levels to fit your needs, all of which can be found here: https://www.patreon.com/coffeeandcases
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Transcript
Introduction to Ada and its Notorious Cases
00:00:01
Speaker
Ada, the name itself might ring a bell for true crime aficionados. It's the setting for John Grisham's nonfiction expose, The Innocent Man, which chronicles a wrongful conviction that shook the town to its core.
00:00:14
Speaker
It's a place explored in Robert Mayer's The Dreams of Ada and in Raven Rollins' allegedly True Crimes from Pontotoc County. These
Environment's Role in Justice
00:00:25
Speaker
stories paint a picture of a community grappling with complex cases, sometimes controversial investigations, and the enduring pain of unresolved tragedies.
00:00:35
Speaker
This backdrop is important not to cast blame, but to understand the environment in which the case we're discussing this week unfolded, an environment perhaps already sensitized to questions about justice and the fallibility of investigations.
00:00:49
Speaker
We're here to talk about one of those lingering ADA cases, a story wrapped in ambiguity and heartache for nearly three decades. It's the
Daniel Furr's Mysterious Death
00:00:58
Speaker
story of Daniel Lee Furr.
00:01:00
Speaker
In the sweltering summer heat of 1995, Daniel Furr was just 15 years old, standing on the cusp of, well, everything. Driving lessons, first jobs, high school milestones, figuring out who you are and where you fit in.
00:01:16
Speaker
But Daniel wouldn't get the chance to see his 16th birthday, wouldn't navigate those rites at passage. His young life took a devastatingly sharp turn, ostensibly ending, according to the official record, at the bottom of a desolate, abandoned quarry pit.
Mother's Doubts and Official Inconsistencies
00:01:33
Speaker
I use that word ostensibly very deliberately because in Daniel Furr's case, almost nothing is straightforward. A body was discovered. Dental records were used to attach a name to those remains.
00:01:47
Speaker
Case closed. Far from it. A mother's unwavering conviction fueled by startling, almost unbelievable inconsistencies in the official findings ignited a question that remains unanswered to this day.
00:02:01
Speaker
It's a question echoed by investigative journalist, writer, and podcaster Raven Rollins. Was the body found in that pit? Really, Daniel Furr. This week, we will piece together the fragments of this troubling puzzle. We'll explore Daniel's life, his sudden disappearance, the grim discovery that followed, the investigation that ensued, and the decades-long battle waged by his family for answers, for certainty, for justice.
Podcast Introduction and Call for Tips
00:02:28
Speaker
This is the story of Daniel Furr.
00:03:03
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:03:22
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee in Cases Podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive.
00:03:36
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. Hello. I'm so excited that Maggie's back. I didn't know how she was going to introduce herself, so she just like went right out there with it.
00:03:51
Speaker
Frank. don't know. How does it feel to be back? Like normalcy. Yeah. Getting back to routine. Yeah. I'm so, I'm sure you guys are so happy that Maggie is back too because...
00:04:04
Speaker
She's funny. and i I am not. yes
Gail Whitson's Memories of Daniel
00:04:08
Speaker
But before we get into this episode, I want to thank both Daniel's mom, Gail Whitson, and author and podcaster, Raven Rollins, host of The Sirens podcast and author of many books, including Allegedly, that I mentioned in the intro, and Sins of the South, both of which feature Daniel's case for allowing me to interview them and for helping me navigate the complexities of this case. So buckle up, Buttercup.
00:04:33
Speaker
I know it's been a while, Maggie, but you're in for a doozy. I'm excited. I feel like that's always the wrong word to use, but. What? Excited. Oh, no yeah. Yeah. You're ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. understand the weight of that question, the one that hangs over everything in this case, was the body found in that pit really Daniel Furr?
00:04:54
Speaker
We have to rewind the clock, as I always like to do. We have to go back before the pit, before the rumors that continue to perplex anybody who's looking into this case. And we have to know Daniel. And for that, let's start with his mom, Gail.
00:05:09
Speaker
My life is complicated. It's about like this story. ah I had Daniel when I was a senior in high school. And so holding him for the first time, i didn't even tell his father that I was even pregnant.
00:05:24
Speaker
I was taking it all on by myself. And I had my mom. And holding him for the first time. oh man, you're taking me way back.
00:05:37
Speaker
um He was beautiful. He was perfect. I hid my pregnancy from everybody until like two weeks before he was born. And everybody, I was going to school, high school.
00:05:54
Speaker
ah and You can barely, you can really tell I was pregnant. So when I finally told somebody, because my sister was pregnant at the same time, and she would ask me, i said, yeah, further along than you. her they They really kind of freaked out because they didn't realize how far along I was. And that was back when they didn't have all the ultrasounds and stuff. And I knew exactly how far along I was, yeah.
00:06:23
Speaker
Nobody even at school knew I was pregnant. I left for a little bit and come back because I i ran track and played basketball. they Oh, my gosh. you He was almost an eight-pound baby. and they were oh goodness. have Yeah. How He was healthy. Yeah, my mom was like, oh, my gosh. I just knew i was going to have a premature little baby, but he was beautiful and healthy and perfect.
00:06:51
Speaker
that sta Every little baby should be perfect and healthy. Because they're allll be old and all I know. So, even though she hid him, which, you know, I get. That's not some, you know, because people say things.
00:07:06
Speaker
I would never have. Is that... I would have been like, Mom, it's an immaculate conception. Read about in the Bible. It happened again. yeah um But you have to be so brave to go at that alone. Yeah.
00:07:20
Speaker
At any age. I would have been Let alone school. Yeah. as Yeah. So I want you to think about this for a minute. A teenage girl, her senior year, balancing schoolwork and sports and friends, all while her family and friends and neighbors and Ada had no idea.
00:07:38
Speaker
Gail's own mother was actually working in the city at the time, but when Gail's secret finally came out, just weeks before delivery, her mom moved back home to help. So at least- sounds it was supportive. Yeah, this wasn't a journey that she had to face alone.
00:07:53
Speaker
On January 29th, 1980- Daniel Lee Fur came into the world and he wasn't just Gail's first child, her son. He was the first grandchild. So the one who would change yeah the family's rhythm. You know this, you know this.
00:08:10
Speaker
It changes everything for everybody. Gail's mother, now a grandmother, doted on Daniel and life moved forward as it does. Before we go any further.
00:08:21
Speaker
I do want to ask you a question about your intro because I just not thought about it because you said you use that word lightly. Nobody knows what that word is, Allison. Ostensibly? Yes. I tried to use context clues, but it was still like... Like they say it happened that way?
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah. Tone matters. Okay. Gail eventually married Harvey Furr, a man who didn't just step into the role of husband. He became a father to Daniel in every sense. So...
00:08:48
Speaker
Harvey adopted Daniel. was like, how did he? Yes. Yeah, so I say Daniel Lee Fur came into the world, but yeah. He may not have had the last name Fur when he came into the world. Correct. So it was Harvey who gave Daniel his last name a Fur.
00:09:01
Speaker
And over time, the family grew. Two younger sisters, a younger brother, so four children in total. all Yeah, you superhero. yeah From the beginning, Daniel's personality had a brightness to it. He was adventurous, spirited, the kind of kid who could turn a mundane afternoon into an adventure.
00:09:20
Speaker
He was independent. He was a deep thinker well. is all for
Daniel's Independent Nature
00:09:24
Speaker
children. I feel like it is. I think, yeah, I think so. Genetically, just built into you. But you could just as likely find Daniel chasing his sister, Chelsea, around the house, swinging a purse strap like alasso this um that's a That's a story that Chelsea had shared with Raven.
00:09:42
Speaker
Skateboarding or camping outdoors or lying on his back, staring into space, contemplating black holes. Okay, my top of kid, I like it. I know, the whole gamut. Since Gail and Daniel grew up together in a lot of ways, I asked her what she learned from Daniel, because we learn a lot from our kids and what he taught her. And here is what she said.
00:10:04
Speaker
He was just a fun kid, always laughing, always joking, cutting up. ah I guess what he taught me is you can't be somebody, you can't be your child's friend.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I let him be too independent. And I learned to not do that with my other children. feel like that is a lesson a lot of people need to learn. your And it's hard because like.
00:10:35
Speaker
You don't want your kid to be mad at you. I want them to love me. I want to be a favorite. Yeah. But it's hard because you also have to think like, not saying that Daniel was, this is just my thinking.
00:10:46
Speaker
Like, I don't, I want to be like, I don't want to raise a turd. Or like, I want them to be able to like follow directions and, you know, all the things, but it's hard. It is very hard.
00:10:56
Speaker
Being a parent is not for the weak. No. When I say, Maggie, that Daniel was independent, I mean it. He always wanted to do his own thing. And being outdoors was something he loved. So Daniel would go to a friend's house or go camping nearby or go to his grandma's house or his dad's house.
00:11:16
Speaker
And he would only tell his mom where he was after the fact. Oh, this sounds like my brother too. It's he, also the oldest child. That's true. Independent. Independent. Add to that the preteen and teenage hormones in the sense that they know everything and understand the world.
00:11:32
Speaker
Add that to the independence and you know what Gail is dealing with. And all of our listeners who are parents of teens and preteens are nodding their heads right now. Or teachers. Yes, or teachers.
00:11:44
Speaker
One avenue that allowed Daniel some independence and the connection to nature was his role in the Boy Scouts for several years of his life. Yeah. Those boy Scout years as a member of Troop 9 and going to Camp Wilson to learn skills meant a lot to Daniel. He does. I feel like that's perfect. Yes, and Maggie, the skills that he learned stuck with him, and he loved putting them to use, including fishing for and then cooking and eating the crawdads that he caught.
00:12:12
Speaker
Never had a crawdad. No, they're good. I've caught them, but I've never eaten them. going to like this twist it and suck the head? I don't suck the head though because I just can't.
00:12:23
Speaker
I can't. Are eating brains? Yeah. I'm out on that. As Daniel got older, new interests layered on top of the old. So he still loved to go outdoors and things like that. But now he got into music and Daniel's biggest love in music was for Nirvana. Yeah.
00:12:38
Speaker
It's a bit before my time. The music would blare from his room, chords of smells like teen spirit spilling down the hall. His room was kind of his space and he had plans for it. He wanted to paint one wall dark green and paint daisies okay on it.
00:12:54
Speaker
And then he wanted one of the daisies, this was his vision, to have a big smiley face in the center of it. I feel like very 90s. 1990s. Yeah. The green paint eventually did go up, transforming the space, but the daisies, those never happened. The smiley face just remained an idea, not a reality because life had other plans.
00:13:16
Speaker
Then came 1994 and with it, a shift. So he's 14 at this point. He's born in 80. Actually, several shifts. Gail and Harvey divorced.
00:13:28
Speaker
and Daniel reconnected with his biological father. For some kids, that can be a simple piece of their story, some pleasant reconnection, but for others, it can crack open a search for identity that brings turbulence. And Gail knew this better than most because she works as a juvenile probation officer, so she knows.
00:13:51
Speaker
She has seen firsthand how those reunions can happen actually send a teenager down a new and sometimes dangerous path. And Daniel himself was trying to figure out where he fit in, you know, just the big picture of life.
00:14:06
Speaker
And in that attempt, he started falling into the wrong crowds. So I know you said, and you may not know this answer, that Harvey... like took him in, did he just cold turkey, cut him off after they divorced? Or was he still in his life? He's still in his life because he's still in the life of the all of Daniel's siblings.
00:14:27
Speaker
um And you'll hear here in just a minute where he's actually there for Daniel. The changes though, Maggie, here in 1994, they started small, almost too subtle to notice at first. So a night longer away from home here, obviously.
00:14:45
Speaker
or a weekend spent elsewhere there. But the absences began to stretch to a week. Oh. Two. But each time...
00:14:57
Speaker
His mom would go file missing persons reports each time he would be at a friend's house or at his dad's house or at a grandparent's house or camping.
00:15:08
Speaker
So even though he wasn't telling her where he was, he was always so somewhere okay. Correct. And then somewhere along the way, Daniel fell in with the Crips gang, according to Gail.
00:15:24
Speaker
Hold on. First off, I thought Edo was a fictional place in the intro, but then I got there, you know. Yeah. again ah Where is this town located for those of who don't know?
00:15:37
Speaker
I'm sorry, what? Which actually has a super high crime rate. With the Crips? Well, that I mean, there's gang activity most anywhere, if we're honest.
00:15:50
Speaker
I guess I just think like bigger cities. Right. Is that kind of really the change then Like if he was if he was always independent and he'd be gone even back then a couple days at a time, but he would let you know where he was.
00:16:04
Speaker
Is that really the shift then? i guess in 94 is when he starts hanging out with that crowd. Now he's he's still gone. But did he just kind of stop?
00:16:15
Speaker
I guess he didn't let you know as often where he was or i guess when did you start to notice big changes?
00:16:25
Speaker
When he started hanging out with that crowd and then he had another couple friends that... ah supposedly were involved Crips and the father of one of those kids, he told me one time that he had him selling like LSD and marijuana and that he had tried And I was like, Daniel, you know, he goes, no, I don't want to do it no more.
00:16:53
Speaker
But he was confiding in me that he was doing things that he wasn't supposed to be doing. Well, at least, we can say this, at least you have the relationship that there's the honesty going on.
00:17:04
Speaker
That's true. Because a lot of parents don't have that. But how scary would that Scary, yeah, as a parent. Oh, my gosh. So, with the length of your time away, doing poorly in school, and hearing this news about possibly, you know, some gang and drug links. Was his biological dad involved in all of this stuff? don't know. Okay.
00:17:23
Speaker
That I don't know. But Gail knew that she had to take more drastic action. So
Gang Confession and Fear for Safety
00:17:29
Speaker
she put Daniel into a day treatment facility called Willow View to try to you know make sure he's getting away from that lifestyle.
00:17:38
Speaker
because And that's a lot, not only just for any parent, but to navigate now as a single mom of four kids, just trying to do your best and do the best for your kids.
00:17:49
Speaker
But Maggie, the night before Daniel was set to start that day treatment, Daniel came home with his face swollen. So I'm going to take a guess and say that before he can go into the the day treatment, this all happens, like this case happens.
00:18:07
Speaker
No, he goes to the treatment. Oh, okay. Yeah, this is something else. Okay, so tell me about the swabbing face. Okay. Well, here's Gail to tell you about it.
00:18:19
Speaker
The night before that he was supposed to go in there, hi ah ah had officers like transport him. And he come walking up and he had he said that he he was had a bandana and it was kind of pulled down low over his eyes.
00:18:36
Speaker
And they had he said, I did it, Mom. I said, what'd you do? He said, I got jumped in. and his face was swollen. And was just glad that it was the timing that the officer was there and could take him to the placement to get him some help.
00:18:55
Speaker
So he went in there, and then when I went up to visit him, he was scared. He said, I didn't realize what I got into, Mom. He said, they came to my window and told me if i if I spoke, if I told anything, that they would kill me and they would kill my family. He said, I'm scared, Mom.
00:19:16
Speaker
So they show up at day treatment and they're like, so basically they know where he is. They're following him. But this is the gang that he's in though, right? Yes. Yes. This is the gang he's in.
00:19:27
Speaker
And they're like, if you say anything about our gang activity, we're gonna... Yep. Yep. Yep. What did he feel like that's kind common practice, though? Yeah, he's scared now, because he's like, what have I gotten myself into?
00:19:39
Speaker
The treatment at Willowview was supposed to be a chance to reset, to create a buffer between Daniel and the dangerous path ahead. But that path, I mean, it found him, even there.
00:19:51
Speaker
But it seemed to be doing some good. Daniel began to appear more calm, as he spent time in the state treatment, and But he wanted to come home and Gail wanted her baby home and he seemed like he was doing better.
00:20:04
Speaker
Daniel didn't stay the full 30 days that he was originally scheduled to So it's basically like he doesn't get to come home in the afternoons. He's there for X amount of time. Correct.
00:20:15
Speaker
But it wasn't long after being home that Daniel was around the same people. He was acting out again, kind of being goaded by them. Like your mom can't make you do anything. You know, those sorts of things.
00:20:28
Speaker
influences. And now that he was back under the influence of that same crowd, Daniel grew actually angry at his mom for sending him away. yeah That anger found an outlet in small ways at first, a petty larceny charge for stealing a candy bar at a local Love's filling station. okay He started staying away for a week or so at a time again.
00:20:53
Speaker
So it falling back into those old patterns. Again, gayil filed missing persons reports. I can kind of see why you would be quick to file a missing persons report if your kid was threatened in the way yes that he had been threatened. Yes.
00:21:07
Speaker
Well, she's filing these reports, though. But because she is doing it so often on Daniel by this point. The police are like. She would show up. And the officers basically insinuated that she didn't even need to bother to fill out a report because he's going to be back. Right.
00:21:23
Speaker
As a result of the larceny charge, Daniel was entered into a first offenders program. So an early intervention. sorry Yes. To steer young people away from a criminal record. But for that, Gail needed to know where Daniel was. And at this point, he had been away for a little bit.
00:21:41
Speaker
right And so Gail actually approached a local business owner whose employees were rumored to be hanging around Daniel. These were members of said gang.
00:21:53
Speaker
So Gail gives this businessman her number and says, have Daniel call me. And Daniel called her that night. Hold on. My brain didn't compute. Okay. So she goes to a local business.
00:22:04
Speaker
Man. She talks to the owner. Yes. And she says, I've heard some of your employees. He comes where she works, like a hardware store. And she goes up to him and she says, hey, I know that Daniel is hanging out with some of your employees. I need him to call me.
00:22:19
Speaker
here's my Here's my number. Have him call me. And he calls her that night. So we know that Daniel was with the workers. boss man, maybe? Or like the workers. His workers. But I mean, clearly the boss knew. The boss man.
00:22:31
Speaker
On the phone, Gail told Daniel that, you know, if you're angry with me, you don't want to stay with me. That's fine. Harvey is willing to open up his home for you to stay there. So that's why I said he's there for him.
00:22:45
Speaker
Gail, you know, she just wanted to make sure that Daniel was safe and she knew that Harvey would help do that. So Daniel lived with Harvey while he participated in that First Defenders program. Then came the summer of 1995 and the fracturing of a relationship.
00:23:02
Speaker
Harvey was to go out of town and he told Daniel, while I'm gone, you need to go stay with your mom, girl. Instead, Harvey returned home after his trip to find his home had been burglarized and he knew that Daniel had been behind it.
00:23:21
Speaker
So, I mean, obviously that hurt Harvey deeply that Daniel would do that to him. It led to an argument. And we all know that in arguments, we say things out of hurt feelings that we don't really mean as a sort of defense mechanism. And that's what happened here.
00:23:37
Speaker
Sadly though, Maggie, that was the last conversation that Harvey would have with Daniel. So he- You probably have that guilt. He harbored a lot of guilt because of that. While Harvey and Daniel were dwelling on their fight, the town of Ada was busy prepping for their 4th of July is its celebration. How big town?
00:23:56
Speaker
I'm picturing like a little town where we got people that like raise cattle and you got a one-way street and that's about it. 16,000 people. Okay. Ish.
00:24:07
Speaker
So small. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But July 4th was and still is a fixture in Ada. It's an event that draws everybody out, including people from surrounding towns. see The little town I live in. Yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
Families spread picnic blankets on the grass, kids darting between legs with sparklers in hands, couples finding a quiet spot to watch the fireworks. The dam in the town was alive with noise, light, and laughter. But as the night faded, whispers began.
00:24:38
Speaker
as Gail and Raven tell me, rumors that someone had threatened Daniel at the celebration. so everybody's, a it's a buzz. Yeah. Someone who was a member of a local gang- Not the one that Daniel is purportedly involved with, but a local gang spearheaded by Daniel's classmate, Anthony Taylor.
00:25:01
Speaker
Here's Raven. There were a lot of people there. ah I mean, like I said, everybody was there. And so Crystal had said that she had witnessed these two guys. And then there was a bunch of other guys that were there that, you know, I'll leave their names out. But, you know, there was other witnesses later that also said that they heard these people talking about wanting to hurt Daniel.
00:25:26
Speaker
And all of those guys were kind of in the same crew with Anthony Taylor. So they were all in some way connected to Anthony Taylor. I can't comprehend.
00:25:40
Speaker
Maybe it's just because of like we ah I feel like you and I probably live sheltered lives. Yes, we're very sheltered. I just can't. You're 15. I can't imagine. Like this type of drama at 15. I can't imagine that at any point in my life.
00:25:58
Speaker
And then that small of a town. Okay. And the Crystal Girl who Raven mentioned in the quote, other rumors were circulating too that she um shared what she had heard. Her name was k Crystal Cavanaugh.
00:26:12
Speaker
who was another of Daniel's classmates, she said that she saw so Daniel at the dam talking to two people she didn't know, which tells you they're not, I guess, from the town. People she described as, quote, thugs around Daniel's age or older, end quote.
00:26:30
Speaker
So we also have that going on. But despite these rumors and threats that night, nothing happened on July 4th. From July fifth to the 7th, Daniel stayed with his cousin, Nathan, who was While Daniel was gone, Gail went through his room, as any good parent does, and she found $85 his mattress.
00:26:50
Speaker
in his mattress I mean, obviously- mean, not a lot of money, but it's pretty good for a teenager. In 1995. That's Right? And obviously there's no explanation in her mind for why he would have it. Exactly. So when Daniel no returned home, Gail overheard Daniel grilling his siblings. Did you take it? Did you take it?
00:27:09
Speaker
So Gail chimed in and she says, I took it. You can have it back if you tell me where you got it. He refused to tell her. And he even said, you're going to get me killed.
00:27:22
Speaker
Over $85? I know. But even with that, though, he wouldn't tell her where it came from. This argument was around 3 to 4 p.m. on July 7, 1995.
Last Interaction Over $85
00:27:33
Speaker
It was a tense exchange, but like so many arguments between parents and teenagers, I mean, she couldn't have known, because they happen all the time, that it would be the last time she ever saw him. Wow.
00:27:49
Speaker
i
00:27:56
Speaker
i On the outskirts of Ada sat the old brick plant quarry. Now I mentioned this in- always ah always happen. They do.
00:28:09
Speaker
Locals knew it as a party spot, the kind of place teenagers gravitated toward when they wanted to be away from adult eyes, even though lots of times, you know, those weird straggler adults were there too.
00:28:20
Speaker
It was a place where parties weren't really planned, but if you were looking for a party, there always seemed to be one going on. Okay. The ground was littered with beer cans, cigarette butts, discarded trash. The air carried the smell of dust and heat.
00:28:35
Speaker
Vomit, probably. then there was the drop off. Oh. A sheer, unforgiving cliff ending in a 30-foot fall into the pit below. So not really the place where you should be drinking.
00:28:48
Speaker
It didn't even have water. It was just ground. Yeah. splatin into Okay. It was in that pit on July 11th that three members of Boy Scout Troop 9, Daniel's old troop.
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah. Were out exploring the area. It should have been a day of outdoor adventure. they know? dead Yeah, they knew him. But instead, they spotted something at the bottom of the pit.
00:29:13
Speaker
it But it looked like the carcass of an animal. It was decomposing, and they said dried out. So they weren't sure what it was. Like I said, they thought it was an animal. So they ran back to their scoutmaster, who called 911 at 5.55 p.m.
00:29:29
Speaker
By
Discovery and Initial Theories of Death
00:29:30
Speaker
6.15 p.m., the first officers arrived. But it wasn't an animal that the boys had found. It was a human body. So they didn't go right up on the body. They see it from a distance. A little bit of a distance, yeah. Still very traumatic for anyone. Yes. Especially kids.
00:29:46
Speaker
The body lay on its back, heavily decomposed, with long brown hair splayed out around it. So- He's found on the 11th. The last time he's seen a alive is and the 7th. The 7th.
00:29:59
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. On the body was a light tank top, a light colored tank top, dark, no fear shorts, and Nike tennis shoes. Evidence was collected at the scene, evidence of a party, though they have no idea when the party actually happened. Is it before the appearance of this body? You know? Yeah.
00:30:19
Speaker
During the death of this person or what? Beer cans of various brands were gathered. a knife improbably lodged in a tree was found. A single leaf with blood was collected, as was a lighter with ponytail holders attached.
00:30:35
Speaker
And they did plaster casts of shoe prints from the ground nearby. Very random assortment of things. Yes. Initial thoughts were that whomever this was had fallen off of the 30-foot cliff,
00:30:48
Speaker
to their death. Right, that makes sense. Right, but for all that evidence that was collected, there was one thing that was missing, Maggie. Significant blood at the scene. Right, because that's a pretty big impact. Yes. There's going to be blood splatter. Yes, so that detail kind of lands like dull thud when you hear it.
00:31:07
Speaker
It's not flashy, it doesn't scream out in neon, but when you let it sit, when you put it against the context of what police were saying, that this is where a life ended, that absence kind of gnaws at you. Yeah, because I'm like going into Dexter mode. ah And I'm like, there should be blood splatter. There should be blood maybe pulled somewhere. Yeah.
00:31:29
Speaker
How's there footprint there? Right. In cases of violence, especially blunt force trauma or sharp force injuries, the scene often, like you were saying, tells the story. You see the patterns, the pulling, the drag marks, something that roots a body to that location in time and space.
00:31:46
Speaker
But here there is a single leaf with blood on it. And that's it. And they're saying he's super decomposed in the span of like a week. Four days.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yes. You know, I can't remember. From the seventh to the 11th. Right. Yep. So was that drop into the pit the cause of death? Was it something else entirely, something that happened elsewhere with the pit serving only as the final resting place?
00:32:13
Speaker
At least that would and kind of solve the issue of there not being blood there. But if that's the case, who brought this person here? How? And who is this person?
00:32:24
Speaker
The autopsy, supposed to bring clarity, instead, it set off an avalanche of new questions. When the medical examiner first documented the remains, the cause of death went down as traumatic injury to the chest.
00:32:40
Speaker
Well, that's clearly a phrase that sounds clinical, but actually means very little because trauma to the chest could be anything from blunt force impact to a fall to crushing injuries from a heavy object. And he was laying on his back though. Right. Right.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah, so you think, again, if you fell off a cliff and you have- would be like head trauma or- Traumatic injury to the chest, you would be laying on your chest. But no.
00:33:07
Speaker
And you know all of this vagueness, it leaves a lot of room for interpretation and reinterpretation, and that's exactly what happened. Somewhere in the official record, the manner of death also shifted. First, to suicide, which well um mean we'll talk about that later.
00:33:24
Speaker
Then later to homicide. And each change feels seismic when you're talking about a human life because suicide implies agency. Homicide implies a perpetrator. And when the determination flips between the two, it tells you one thing for certain that the people making those calls aren't sure what happened at all.
Autopsy and Shifting Conclusions
00:33:43
Speaker
The injuries listed in the autopsy didn't clear things up either. Only one bone was broken. Excuse me. A spiral fracture of the left index finger. Stop.
00:33:54
Speaker
I mean, that is not what you would expect to find. We know Allison broke her pinky yes in a car accident. Yeah, the airbag. Yes. I think if you fell from 30 feet, yeah it would be more than finger injury. Yeah. This is not what you would expect from a teenager who has plummeted from a cliff edge into a quarry pit.
00:34:13
Speaker
A fall from that height, I mean, you would have a list of injuries, broken ribs, skull fractures, shattered legs. Yes. And because you're going to throw your arms up to break the fall. So one broken finger I don't think so. And I was actually talking to Rodney about, i said, what fall, what height would you consider traumatic? And he said on the fire department, they were told to prep for significant trauma for any fall over 10 feet.
00:34:42
Speaker
And we're talking about 30 here. Yeah. Multiple cuts were also noted, Maggie, concentrating mostly around the shoulders, but with a few to the chest and four to the back.
00:34:53
Speaker
But we don't know whether the stabbing was the cause of death though, because remember it's listed as traumatic injury to the chest. Is it significant stabbing or like, well, slices?
00:35:03
Speaker
Well, we don't really know. all right, because he was so badly deep. Exactly. Yeah, even just the assumption of stabbing is made because there were holes in the shirt and there was evidence in the autopsy of a nick on one of the ribs. So at least that one would have been deep, but I don't know if we know how deep.
00:35:21
Speaker
any of the other injuries were, or even if the person were stabbed because the body itself was too decomposed to show those injuries. Then there's the description of the body. Because of the advanced state of decomposition, exact details obviously were more difficult, but the swing between various extremes in this case is confusing to me.
00:35:41
Speaker
At one point, the body was described as six feet tall, 160 pounds. At another point, as five foot four inches tall, That's 92 and a half pounds.
00:35:56
Speaker
I don't understand how he, I don't know how we get, yeah, that discrepancy, but here we are. There's something else peculiar though, Maggie, a phone call that Gail received just after the body, something that she didn't know anything about at the time was discovered.
00:36:11
Speaker
Here's what she
Missing Person Report and Body Identification
00:36:12
Speaker
told me. they They found the body that night, and then the next morning, somebody called me and was like, have you reported Daniel missing yet?
00:36:22
Speaker
And I was like, no, I will today. They said, if you don't do it today, I will. I said, who are you? And they said, I'm his counselor. I don't know who this person was to this day who called me.
00:36:35
Speaker
So I went down to the police station and walked in there and and like I always did, told I needed to report Daniel as you know missing.
00:36:47
Speaker
And they said, okay. I said, do I not need to fill out the paperwork that has its clothes and all that kind of stuff like I usually do? And they said, no. And so I left and I went to work.
00:37:00
Speaker
And about 30 minutes later, they called me at work, and they were like, Gail, what was Daniel wearing? And when i started telling them, they said, well, do you know about the dead, the body we found last night?
00:37:11
Speaker
And I was like, what? And I said, well, we don't know for sure if it's him. ah And so I had to panic attack. Real nice. Real nice of him. Yeah, exactly. While you're at work. And I told my boss, i have they found a body. I have to go home now while I can breathe.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah. and so I think,
00:37:32
Speaker
i and this is just my opinion, but I think that Gail was baited into going down there and filing a police report. But why? I think, let's talk about this. I think it's clear why Raven felt that way because just after reporting Daniel missing, the autopsy for the body in the pit was amended from unidentified to identify the body as Daniel Fern. So were they just wanting to close? Effectively closing the case.
00:38:03
Speaker
But there are some issues if this truly were Daniel and he's so decomposed you cannot tell. But can we get like DNA out of his teeth? Well, we'll talk about that. So we do know the clothing that was removed from the body because Gail saw it in crime scene photos.
00:38:20
Speaker
Those are the clothes that she last saw Daniel wearing. Yeah, but it's not like my pants today. That not a lot of people would have. Right. probably like every 15-year-old boy was wearing that same outfit. And who's to say that those clothes weren't taken off of Daniel and put on somebody else?
00:38:36
Speaker
Right. Right? Well, those clothes have since disappeared. So william we won't know. We won't be able to get anything from those. But even with the two descriptions of the height and weight of the body, Daniel's somewhere in the middle.
00:38:48
Speaker
He's 150 pounds. Then there's the recollection of the long brown shoulder length hair. Remember they said they saw it kind of splayed out around the body long enough to pull back in a ponytail.
00:39:02
Speaker
Daniel didn't have long hair. His hair was three to four inches on top and shortly buzzed on the sides. And last I checked, hair doesn't grow that long overnight.
00:39:13
Speaker
No. Nor in four days. Right.
00:39:17
Speaker
Okay. So there's that. So I'm guessing people think it's not him. most A lot of people, there's a theory. Yes. And we have the level of decomposition. Gail saw Daniel on July 7th.
00:39:29
Speaker
The body was found on July eleven In four days, even with the heat of the summer sun, which can obviously speed up decay, the remains would have been in either the bloat or active decay stage of decomposition.
00:39:45
Speaker
However, the boys who discovered the body said it looked, quote unquote, dried up. Something that wouldn't happen until later stages of decomposition. And I feel like the smell would be overwhelming at this point in decompositions.
00:39:59
Speaker
And and in instances like this with cases of extreme heat where you can't really tell time of death by the stage of decomposition, ah better indicator would be the insect activity. So like the gestation stage of the maggots. Yeah.
00:40:16
Speaker
However, while maggots were noted as present, their size and stage were not documented. Just do your job. Yes. Without that information, obviously it's hard to tell, but for many, its seems unlikely that if it's actually Daniel, that his body would decompose that quickly. Baffling. I know.
00:40:38
Speaker
But law enforcement swear that they did identify the body as Daniel, but even that identification is a little bit problematic. It was made using only one tooth.
00:40:51
Speaker
Tooth number three, um which was marked by a silver filling. There was no full dental match, no cross-reference to confirm the rest of the teeth.
00:41:02
Speaker
So that's kind of like locking in a suspect. One fingerprint looks similar, but ignoring the rest that you can't match. So we're saying like, we just took his dental records. He has one tooth that has a filling on his dental record. And that guy the same tooth.
00:41:18
Speaker
And that they're like, we're done. We're not checking like his crooked teeth to see if they align. Well, here's part of the problem. The dental records that they had to go by were from when Daniel was 10 and he's now 15.
00:41:30
Speaker
And a lot changes in our teeth in those five intervening years because you don't even have all of your adult teeth until you're between 12 and 14. I didn't get my wisdom teeth until I was...
00:41:43
Speaker
27. Yeah. 28. But that the confirmation of that one tooth was made by Dr. Richard Glass. He was a well-respected man in his field of forensic odontology, who in his position with the Oklahoma State Medical Examiner's Office had just had the daunting task in April of that year of the identification of bodies in the Oklahoma City bombing. That, you know, that's one of the first traumatic...
00:42:07
Speaker
and events I remember him a lot time. So he is obviously an expert and he's saying this is Daniel based on one tooth. But with contradictory statements to the family by Daniel's own dentist, his family have come to question how sure Dr. Glass could really be.
00:42:24
Speaker
Here's Raven and Gail. And his dentist straight up said, there's no way. Yeah, his own dentist. What i gave them, they could have identified him with those dental records.
00:42:36
Speaker
Those teeth would have fallen out. And you know what I learned? um His daughter contacted me not too long ago. i actually didn't know this. um i had I thought I knew everything about Dr. Clark.
00:42:47
Speaker
But his daughter contacted me like last month and said, well, did you know that he was also on a task force of identifying Oklahoma City victims?
00:42:58
Speaker
He was also, he had his own task force. He was also identifying with dental records. So he also knew exactly what he was doing. So for him to say that there's no way and it is much more important, knowing that he also was a forensic odontologist.
00:43:20
Speaker
So I understand why Daniel's family is skeptical yeah at the identification. I mean, what they recorded about the body, well, it reads like a description of somebody else entirely.
00:43:31
Speaker
So initially they believed this body belonged to a white male, mid-20s, somewhere between five foot four inches and six feet. Well, Daniel's 15. He's now 20s. And he's right in the middle. Yeah, he's right in the middle. He's 5'10". Add to that the mismatched hair length, the wrong weight, the rate of decomposition that doesn't fit the official four-day window between when Daniel was last seen and when the body was found. The math doesn't work.
00:43:57
Speaker
The biology doesn't work. The math isn't mathing. That's right. And yet, officially, this body was Daniel Furr. Like, is it buried in grave marked Daniel Ver? Yes. Which is sad on two accounts if it is not him and it is a John Doe. Mm-hmm.
00:44:12
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And now the the clothing was gone. The fingernail clippings, they took fingernail clippings, those are also gone. And these aren't minor side notes. They're the kinds of items that can make or break an investigation decades later when technology catches up.
00:44:28
Speaker
If you keep them, you have a shot at DNA testing, a trace analysis, a pulling threads that you didn't even know you could pull at the time. But if you lose them, you lose that forever.
00:44:39
Speaker
And that's when the theories start to take root. So let's talk about some of those theories now. The first name that flows to the surface in conversations about ADA in the mid nineties is Anthony Taylor. The guy from 4th July. Correct.
00:44:51
Speaker
In that place and time, his name had weight and not the good kind. And he was in high school he was with Daniel. He was. He was known to be violent, dangerous, someone you didn't want to cross.
00:45:05
Speaker
Rumors linked him to Daniel's death, whispers of bad blood and of unresolved tensions. But if he did kill Daniel, maybe it was personal, Maybe it was a message, maybe to a rival gang.
00:45:18
Speaker
Right, because he, okay. He's in a gang. Daniel is reportedly in a different one. And both Taylor's gang and the one linked to Daniel through the workers at the businessman's place that I mentioned earlier were in the drug selling game. So was this a turf war and Daniel was the victim?
00:45:35
Speaker
but why Daniel? I don't know. I mean, I guess just chance. Casualty, yeah, of the situation. We can no longer ask Anthony Taylor, though. He was killed in 2003 in a fight with his girlfriend's brother.
00:45:49
Speaker
We also can't ask Crystal Kavanaugh, the one who I said overheard the threats at July 4th at the dam by members of Taylor's gang.
00:46:00
Speaker
She, too, Maggie, met a tragic end. She was murdered in 2007. After knocking on a neighbor's door saying her boyfriend was beating her, the man later told police that he got a gun ready in case Crystal's boyfriend showed up that she said was beating her, but that he caught Crystal snooping through his things and shot her five times with a.45.
00:46:22
Speaker
Her murderer was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Hold on. She comes to her neighbor for help because she's getting beaten. He says, I grab my gun in case the boyfriend comes over.
00:46:34
Speaker
While Crystal's in his house saying, help me, he... Says that she's looking through his stuff and shoots her. Okay. I will say that many people questioned about the case by the family, by Raven, either don't want to talk at all or they um don't want their name recorded.
00:46:53
Speaker
So to me, that speaks to a lingering fear of getting tied up in something much larger, maybe gang activity. But that's about all the confirmation we can get without that information from those who may still have it.
00:47:06
Speaker
The gang retaliation theory has its own gravitational pull as theory too. Daniel had just been jumped into the gang. He told his mother about the threats, about the danger that came with that affiliation.
00:47:19
Speaker
if so the gang he's in wanted to make an example of someone, like, did he tell somebody? ah so he might've been like a snitch. Right, did he tell somebody?
00:47:30
Speaker
Did they kill him to send a message to other people thinking of stepping out of line? Like, you know, um and we know, and it sounded like at least he didn't want to be in the gang any longer. So maybe even just him saying- Like, I don't want to be Right. Right.
00:47:45
Speaker
But here's the problem. Gang killings, particularly those meant to send a message, they're usually public, right? They're designed to be seen because you want to spread fear. You want to control.
00:47:56
Speaker
So dumping a body in a remote pit doesn't scream example, yeah right? I mean, unless maybe it was to a very specific audience and because it's in that location.
00:48:08
Speaker
Like maybe people at the party something. Those people, yeah, would get the message. People who already know, but still it seems a strange choice. And while I won't go into them because I don't have enough information about many of them nor any corroborating details, I will say, Maggie, there are many other theories and rumors about who may have killed Daniel that have been made to tip lines. Everything from Daniel being ambushed and pushed off the cliff to Daniel staging his own death to other people in the town, his classmates bragging about sexually assaulting and murdering him.
00:48:43
Speaker
There are too many of these stories to count, and each one will lead you to its own separate rabbit hole. each one is depressing. It's so sad. Here's the problem, and this is what Raven and Gail and I talked about, is if you don't know if this body in the pit is truly Daniel, well, if it is, then these theories make sense and could be true. Mm-hmm.
00:49:03
Speaker
If it's not, then those theories couldn't be true. These theories are true. And so it's hard to even rule a single one of them out if you're not even sure. person buried is Daniel. Correct.
00:49:18
Speaker
Again, could we not pull a tooth, pull DNA out of a tooth? Well... We'll get into that too.
Failed Exhumation Plans
00:49:25
Speaker
And all of this brings us to the theory that s still haunts Gail the most, that maybe the body in the pit wasn't Daniel at all. But then she has zero closure.
00:49:33
Speaker
If somebody wanted to throw investigators off, they dressed in other body in Daniel's clothes. I mean, that would do it. And it would send them down a path that leads to the wrong answers while buying the real perpetrator. Or he faked his own death. Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
But then the question becomes almost unbearable. If that wasn't Daniel in the pit, then where is he? What happened to him? And why go to all these elaborate lengths to stage another body in his place?
00:50:00
Speaker
I mean, this theory is the kind that keeps the edges of grief raw. Do you have zero closure? Yeah, it means, it doesn't just mean that Gail has lost her son. It means she's still losing him every day. Because she doesn't know. Right, to that absence.
00:50:16
Speaker
The unanswered questions about Daniel's identity eventually built to something tangible, something actionable. For Gail, that meant one thing, an exhumation. Okay, good.
00:50:26
Speaker
If the boy in that pit wasn't Daniel, or even if he was, digging up the coffin would give her something that she had never been afforded. A second look, a real look, a chance to re-examine the remains with modern forensic methods and to answer the questions that 1995's investigation either couldn't or wouldn't answer. So when did this About 10 years ago or so.
00:50:50
Speaker
She had plans that were already in motion. And then ah phone call. Oh, my God. Not to her. oh my God. But to the local news, Channel 9. Oh, my God. I got on Channel 9 News one time and and was talking about exhuming the body like 10 years ago.
00:51:06
Speaker
And they called the news, Channel 9 News, and said, tell her not to exhume the body. We have DNA at the medical examiner's office.
00:51:19
Speaker
And so John and I called and told me that, and I said, that's great. yeah And so I called the MEs, and I said, okay, I want you to release it to the lab where I put my DNA.
00:51:30
Speaker
And they were like, oh no, you can't just do like that. You have to get an attorney to get it released. I said, why did you even bother calling the news?
00:51:40
Speaker
What do you want? And they said, well, you have to have a release order. So I got an attorney, ah spent several hundred dollars. He was said, I don't know what you're dealing with here. We'll create a document for you to get that.
00:51:56
Speaker
So I spent the money on attorney, sent it to them. I said, now i need you to release it to my lab. And they went, oh, it's too decomposed to even use. Oh, my goodness.
00:52:07
Speaker
And that's when you hit a brick wall and your breath goes out of you again. So they had done a story on her exhuming the body and the station gets a phone call and they were like, tell her not to dig up the body. We have DNA evidence.
00:52:21
Speaker
Okay. So my first question is, are we sure it was at the medical examiner's office that called the new station? It seems like it because she took the document down to the medical examiner's office.
00:52:33
Speaker
And then they were like, nevermind. It's too decomposed. They have since found some DNA. Oh, good. But it was not under any chain of custody. They like, oh, we found this envelope.
00:52:45
Speaker
Randomly, just like in a nest drawer. Yeah, that's Daniel. And they're like, where has this been this whole time? See, I feel like this almost sounds like somebody very important has a bunch of these people in their pocket.
00:53:03
Speaker
That's what it sounds like to me. But because that wasn't the only roadblock, Maggie, even before the exhumation debacle, there were glaring gaps in the original investigation, like people who should have been interviewed but weren't, potential witnesses whose insights could have filled in the timeline, connected the rumors to verifiable events or ruled out certain theories altogether, who were never brought in, never questioned.
00:53:26
Speaker
Like even the boys who found the body, their initial statements were taken when they discovered the body, and never interviewed again. Yep, so we'll never know if their memories could have confirmed what Gail suspected or if their accounts might have introduced entirely new leads because nobody asked them.
00:53:44
Speaker
And in cases like this, silence isn't just an absence of answers, it's the slow erosion of opportunity. And that's why this story isn't just about the past, it's about right now.
00:53:55
Speaker
So what are your thoughts, Maggie? This case, my draw was ah was on the floor quite a bit. Like I said, I just feel like it's a smaller town.
00:54:08
Speaker
I think somebody very big in this town has his hands in a lot of pots, his or her hands in a lot of pots. And it's like kind of controlling things. I do think it's related. I asked if most of the theories were related to, say, gangs and gang activity. And they said quite a few of them are. So my guess Is it has something to do with gang activity, but which gang and why? and Yeah, I don't know.
00:54:40
Speaker
Daniel's case was featured on Oklahoma's cold case playing cards, the kind distributed to inmates in the hopes that someone on the inside, someone with nothing left to lose, might decide to talk.
Call to Action for Public Involvement
00:54:52
Speaker
There's been a reward offered meant to loosen lips and bring someone, anyone, forward. But decades later, those incentives haven't cracked the silence.
00:55:03
Speaker
Maybe the reward isn't enough. Maybe the people who know something still fear retaliation. Maybe, and this is the one that chills me, the person who could answer these questions simply doesn't care to.
00:55:16
Speaker
but you can care. And if you've been listening this far, if you've walked with us through Gail's story from holding her newborn son the first time to the unimaginable moment she was told she couldn't even look at his face one last time, then I know you do care.
00:55:33
Speaker
So here's the call to action. If you know anything ah about what happened to Daniel Furr in Ada, Oklahoma in July of 1995, if you remember seeing him in the days before the 11th, if you've heard stories that never made it into a police report, it's time to speak.
00:55:50
Speaker
Time to make the call you didn't back then. Because this isn't just about a body in a pit. It's about a mother who's been carrying a question for three decades.
00:56:01
Speaker
Was that really my son? a mother who deserves an answer before the last witness is gone, before the last memory fades, before the last chance to know the truth slips away for good.
00:56:15
Speaker
Here's Raven and Gail. You know, we've got these two books. I've worked really hard. um I put Daniel's case in both Allegedly and Sends the South.
00:56:26
Speaker
um So there's a lot of details in the book I even have in Sends the South. I've even got the autopsy report in there. you can look at yourself. um You know, if if you hear anything, it's never too late to report anything. i i even have an anonymous tip box set up on my website.
00:56:44
Speaker
I don't mind getting anonymous tips. You can email me at thesirenspodcast at gmail.com. You can go on the website, which is thesirenspodcast.com. You can send me a message anytime. You can always...
00:56:57
Speaker
like you know Contact the OSBI. They also have a way to anonymously send your tips in. So you know if you're out there and you're listening and you think you might know something, we take every tip we can get. Anything that we can get that, you know, we can keep pushing at these investigators and say, well, look, people are still talking about this. People still, you know, have information and it still needs to be ran down. We can't we can get the tip, but we can't go out there and run these you know tips down. you can't run these leads down.
00:57:30
Speaker
So, you know, we we really need to motivate, you know, the OSPI, the Sheriff's Department, the DA's office to, you know, continue to look into this. So if anybody anybody out there has any information, um you know, contact contact the authorities wherever you are.
00:57:48
Speaker
If you want to remain anonymous, you can go online, OSPI.gov. I believe they have a link there that you can submit and a tip online or you can call in. But any anything is appreciated at this point and keep sharing Daniel's story.
00:58:02
Speaker
This is the whole point. Like i I have found out and this is so tragic, but I have found out and Allison, you probably have have noticed this, too. But in our line of work as podcasters, um writers, people who push these cases out to the media, we are the loophole.
00:58:20
Speaker
You know, the these families can't do everything. Right. If you have any information concerning Daniel Furr, please contact the OSBI at 1-800-522-8017 or email information to tips at osbi.ok.gov.
00:58:44
Speaker
Contact information as well as information about where to find Raven's books containing Daniel's case and others can be found in the show notes. Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases Podcast, to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode.
00:59:00
Speaker
As always, follow us on Twitter at Cases Coffee, on Instagram at Coffee Cases Podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcast at gmail.com.
00:59:12
Speaker
Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:59:22
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.