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TIDBITS Episode 9: CHRISTMAS! LATE!!!!
56 Plays3 months ago
It’s February. Ignoring that, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! Rob explores the rare & mysterious moment in human history when a Corporation was briefly nice. Gaz gently ruins a beloved Christmas classic by explaining it's dark history, and Mike rambles about 90s sci-fi lore that absolutely no one asked for, but somehow we’re all happier for it. Also, we have a special Christmas guest! God bless us, everyone — and please don’t ask why the tree is still up.
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Transcript
Celebrating Christmas in February
00:00:06
Speaker
Happy birthday! Guess what, guys? It's Christmas time! It's Christmas time here at the Tidbit Tower. It's Christmas, and you're not tuning into an earlier recorded episode. It is February. It's Christmas in February. That's just when we celebrate Christmas. This is Rob. Tidbitter Rob. Joining me, as always, is... Tidbit friend Mike. Hello. Tidbit friend Mike. And then next to Tidbit friend Mike is... Tidbit adversary guest. That's exactly who the fuck that is. And... We got a special guest joining us because it's Christmas time. Is this before the mailbag even? Even before
The Postponed Christmas Episode
00:00:40
Speaker
the mailbag. We planned to do a Christmas episode. Somebody got sick and somebody else got sick and people were traveling. But this guest was going to join us then. I was kind of excited about the Christmas tidbits. So I figured, who says we can't do tidbits now? So we're doing tit we're doing Christmas tidbits now. I'm sick, but I decided to stick with it because I'm not not a wuss, Mike. Why don't we see who's at the door of the tidbits tower?
00:01:02
Speaker
Let me just open it up. It is Box Diaghilev. Then you had the ballet. wasn't 100% sure until he literally was like, Pettar was busy. i'm like, why would you say that if it's not Pettar?
00:01:21
Speaker
Pretty crummy cover, I admit. i'm ah I'm under the weather and I'm on Benadryl, so that's my excuse. But I still came to tidbits, Mike. Well, this all works very well because we all celebrate Christmas in February. Pettar, why don't you tell
High School Memories and Tidbits
00:01:32
Speaker
us not only how to correctly pronounce your name, but a little bit about yourself for the millions of tidbitters out there. The millions of tidbitters, hello, my name is Petar Draculic. That will be the last time you hear it pronounced correctly.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yes, my parents obviously hated me. That's why they named me Petar Draculic. And today will be the last moment that you could laugh at the unfortunate nature of my name. Yes, it sounds a lot like Dracula, but i am yeah I'm not in any way, shape or form related to Vlad Tepes. I am not Romanian. As a matter of fact,
00:02:01
Speaker
I came about the tidbits crew when we all were living the joyous life in the town that we lived in, in high school, high school buddies together. And even after college. Yes. Right. Yeah. Gosh, it's crazy to see y'all's faces. It's absolutely amazing. And I've been enjoying catching up on all of the tidbits episodes. Although the last one made me feel some feels. It was a little, very special episode. you like
Fan Messages and Star Trek Memories
00:02:25
Speaker
but feeling yeah That was the episode about werewolves you're talking about. Yes, exactly. Right. You know, Literally, Gaz, every time you talk about the Transformers movie, I bite a little bit of blood off it because I'm the one person of our generation that hated that movie. I cannot stand the Transformers because they killed Optimus Prime. And then I realized then i realized that the Transformers were merely a vehicle to sell us more toys. A vehicle that could transform into robot.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, fair enough. Hey, Rob, can you bring Petar's volume up a little bit? I think he's a little bit quiet. Yeah, here goes. Pat Tark, speak up. Hello. Yes, this is the first time anyone has ever said. Yeah, perfect.
00:03:02
Speaker
That's better. I did it. I held the mic closer to my mouth. I think he did it. Yeah. yeah I did it. That's literally the first time in my life anyone has ever said that I'm quiet. So there we go. Yeah, but it's um it's like catching up with the old buddies listening to all the episodes, and it's just wonderful. And I've taken back to when we all worked. Oh, no, Rob didn't. He had a bougie job.
00:03:21
Speaker
But that first summer the first summer after college when we all decided, let's let's go make a – let's have a fun summer and get a job at Great Adventure together. which i was jealous, man. I was jealous. you I remember you would pick me up and drive me in your your VW bus, which was like... Well, you were on the way, guys. Let's be fair. I mean, you know, I was driving can to get Well, I always appreciated it Speaking of the last episode, I thought we'd jump in to the mailbag because the first item of the mailbag, a lot of people were really inspired and and psyched to hear that James and and his family were out there protesting, that they were a part of that. A number of people said, you know, send him my love. A number of people were like, it made me want to go back and listen to that episode to know who he was. And he sounds super cool. And his tidbit was weird, but it was awesome. And so I thought another shout out to James and his family for fighting the good fight. I got some real shit from basically people telling me i need to have my Star Trekkie fan card revoked oh for mispronouncing George. George Takei. Yeah.
00:04:22
Speaker
We were so cool in high school that we we used to go to Star Trek conventions together. did. Right. And one of us actually asked the question of the man, George Takei. The other friend laughed at him and made fun of him and now can't pronounce his name correctly. what was What was the question you asked? Do you remember? Oh, I think it was like, I think it came out like, I am a big fan.
00:04:43
Speaker
I was but just wishing you could tell me about your friendship with Peter David. I think I had to come up with something, you know, like, and- write peter david Yeah, the writer Peter David. I did not know they were friends. Patar should have taken Gaz with him to meet George Takei because sounds like in that story that you laughed at that question, whereas Gaz was quite struck by you. I was
Jingle Bells: A Dark History
00:05:04
Speaker
interested, actually. David, oh, I didn't know that. I know Rob and Gaz, especially you all, all three of you have a background in improv that's impressive now. But I remember seeing Rob do his first bit of improv when a man dressed up as a Klingon came up to him and Rob was wearing his Riker command uniform from Star Trek The Next Generation. And so this guy decided, this Klingon decided it was time for RP time with Rob. And he said, what is it with you, you Terrans? What ship do you serve on? Now, Rob, do you remember what your response was?
00:05:37
Speaker
I told him i serve on the USS really cool. And the guy doing the Klingon immediately just dropped character and he's like, screw this. This this is that's not. ah I was like, what? It's really cool. you should have yes and did that.
00:05:54
Speaker
i also I went to a convention with once with Gaz, and Jeffrey Combs made fun of me. And I was so psyched that Jeffrey Combs made fun of me. Oh, I wanted to say I lost points for George Takei's name. You'll never be able to say that name confidently again. I looked at... Never. I looked it up, and that riot that Mike was talking about was the Patrolman's Benevolent Association, not the Policeman's Benevolent Association. But didn't simply change the name later? No, I looked it up. They're distinct. One is New Jersey, one is New York. Okay. And so I... Your conscience is clear. like
00:06:27
Speaker
I was only robbing little old ladies of 90% of the money they thought was going to the police. But only New Jersey and ladies. Okay, so that's fine. Only New Jersey and ladies. And everyone knows New Jersey cops above board 100% of the time, right? I had another person talking about Mike being the funniest, blah, blah, blah.
00:06:44
Speaker
People had some questions about Gunther Wynn and why. Like, why did you let him put your fingers on the ground? Why did you not retaliate? There was some questions. Why didn't Gaz retaliate on your behalf? Why did he just stand there and laugh? as it I was laughing too hard to do anything, to be fair. There was no air left for anything other than laughter. The answer to that is it's taken me many years to not impulsively apologize for my existence, to not say sorry for having had my mouth in the way of where his hand went. Oh! So now I would probably, I've been much better at pushing back on people. But in those days, I was, okay, if that's what you want to do. You can check that my teeth are real. We we had a call for a tidbit spinoff inspired by a quote from Gaz. The tidbit spinoff would be, are government doing things that is not good? that would be One of the most well-constructed sentences I've ever uttered. I think I teach that class, actually. Yeah.
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to call attention to the fact that I wanted do this at the top the show. Petar is a professor of history, and I kind of love him for that. Hey, Petar, you pronounced your first name earlier. Could you do it again for me, please? Yeah, the right way. Petar. Okay. Because I believe I've always pronounced it. I said Petar. Rob, Rob. Petar. You know I love you like a brother.
Santa's Mailbag and Christmas Stories
00:07:58
Speaker
you That was the joke in high school. You never – no, don't even. All right. Right, is that you never said my name right. Because I've heard Rob say it like Patar many times, where I've doubted myself, but then just now there was some third pronunciation that I'd never heard. There was that poster of quotes that Rob had in his room, where we would all make quotes of one another. And then Mike put an entire sentence mocking Rob's mispronunciation of words. So it was like, I'm going to watch Star Trek with Patar a thing. while laying on some pillows. Yeah, pillows. That's exactly what it was. i do say pillows. That's my family. that My family says pillows.
00:08:34
Speaker
I also wanted to say ah we we got some negative feedback. and Impossible. Nobody really liked Weather Corner. weather corner so we're cutting that out of the show i had a big juicy tidbit for that but okay i also had the following submission to the mailbag dear uncle rob i really like listening to you and your friends this show makes me laugh i like the idea of the show was my uh niece sydney oh so okay do you want to get to tidbits since that's the end the mailbag that's the end of the mailbag that's all i had anybody anybody else have anything to add it's very cold where mike and i live yeah oh wait there's there's another knock at the door who is it
00:09:09
Speaker
Oh my gosh, it's Santa! It's Santa's here and he smells like whiskey and
The Story of Rudolph
00:09:14
Speaker
marijuana. The Hattar. No, not the Hattar. You guys, you. You're always the guy. I'm not the In-Tob guy, dude. You're always the guy. Oh, all right. Oh, I mean, hey, hey, hey. Thanks for joining us, Santa, for the special episode of Christmas Tidbits. How are you enjoying your February, Santa? Yeah.
00:09:35
Speaker
Well, yeah. All right, let's jump in a tidbit.
00:09:42
Speaker
I'm using a four-sided die, and I'm just going ah Patar's one, Gaz is two, Mike is three, I'm four. And it is number two. That's you, Gaz. You're up. Well, I'll start it this way.
00:09:55
Speaker
Okay, we all recognize that song, right? Yeah, yeah. Jingle Bells, one of the most famous Christmas songs of all times. It's easy to play, you know, kids like and adults like it. It's a fun family thing. pretty It's pretty terrible history, though, is is the thing a lot of people don't realize. I didn't realize it. I actually was originally going to do this, like, so I heard somewhere that Jingle Bells was originally kind of like sleigh drag racing, and it had this sort of more, like, different meaning, which is sort of a little bit kind of true. And I thought it'd this fun, like, hey, this is like, you know, the eighteen fifty s version of, like, Hot Rods, and then they turned into a Christmas song. But, Really, it had more to do with like minstrel shows and blackface and a lot of lot of not nice stuff. The guy who originally wrote the song, his name is James Lord Pierpont. It was in the 1850s, he wrote it. And he, the other thing is, there was a lot of sleigh riding type songs. And there was a sort of ah a bougie sort of like, oh, if you're rich, you'd ride it around these sleighs and kind of be better than everybody. there a little bit of like, picking up girls and a little bit of a drag race aspect to it. And so there were songs about that. And his Jingle Bells, from all accounts, sort of just cribbed a lot of lyrics from other people. And it was sort of like third generation, just like a hacky song that he wrote for money.
00:10:58
Speaker
And it was first performed by an actor in blackface in a minstrel show. That was the first time it was performed. Yikes. And also, his father was an abolitionist priest who, when the Civil War started happening, moved up north and joined the Union Army as a chaplain. But Pierpont's like, nah, I'm doubling down and I'm writing three songs for the Confederate Army.
00:11:16
Speaker
Really? So this wasn't like he learned his lesson. It was like, it wasn't like a product of his type. He was full on like, I like slaves. And you guys are going to hear about it in song form. So yeah, not a good person. But despite those rocky beginnings, the song did end up hitting a lot of historical milestones, including being an early Thomas Edison recording on the, forget what it's called, but the Edison Records. The the very first one they recorded- ah Edison Cylinder. The very first one they recorded was destroyed, but there is an 1898 version of Jingle Bells that still exists on one of those Edison Cylinders. And it was originally called One Horse Open Sleigh, and which then changed later to Jingle Bells. And the interesting thing is it was not written, again, as I said, as a Christmas song at all.
00:11:53
Speaker
It doesn't say Christmas. It doesn't have reindeer in it like i don't know about anybody else, but I always used to think like, oh, like Santa on the sleigh with the reindeer. but No, it talks about one horse. One horse. Nothing to do with Christmas. And it never did. But yet somehow we all decided, yeah, that's a Christmas song. And the lyrics got changed slightly to fit modern times and cut out a few of the, there was nothing explicitly racist said in the lyrics, but there were some things about women and whatever, and and that got changed and everything. But some of the other things, there was a lot of big band people that you would know, Rob, that kind of helped popularize it. it It's been covered like 250 times, but some of the first big ones, Danny Goodman in 1935 did a version. and Goodman! And then after that, Glenn Miller Band. And then eventually, of course, Bing Crosby, which really cemented it as like, this is America's Christmas song. Also, it was the first song performed in space. In the 16th, 1965 on Gemini, Gemini 6, there was a prank. They were up there on Christmas time and they called the bass they're like, we see the satellite and da-da-da-da-da. Oh, you think it's signaling us? And they had snuck up jingle bells and a little harmonica and played jingle bells for home bass. And they're like, yeah, we see it too. You're hilarious up there. That costs a million dollars, you know, but...
00:12:56
Speaker
That was like the first live performance in space of a song. Yeah. And so Overtime obviously has morphed and and changed and become this sort of like timeless Christmas classic that you can play on ah a xylophone, even if you don't know how to play anything. But it it came from, you know, minstrel shows and kind of a terrible history. That's crazy. Yeah, I didn't know that. I'm willing to say that loudly and slam the door next time carolers show up trying to get money from me. There you Good afternoon. In
Christmas Traditions and History
00:13:24
Speaker
this house, please.
00:13:27
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, what American classic song wasn't originally sung in blackface? I'm learning that. The ice cream truck songs apparently were very racist. Eeny, meeny, miny, moe was apparently very racist. I mean, Bing Crosby himself is all sorts of trouble. Yeah. i agree well Well, also, this the ah the composer of the song ah did write four some minstrel songs, and there was one, minstrel shows, and there was one song he wrote about an African-American woman, all this, who wouldn't have been called at the time, who was like kind of flirty and whatever, and it used the N-word no less than eight or nine times for this comedy bit. When you were telling your tidbit, I was trying to remember the lyrics to Jingle Bells, and I could not not think of the Batman smells That's exactly what that phrase was doing. ah any Any other follow-ups to Gaz's tidbit? I'm just glad he didn't choose mine. So there we go. Yeah, me too. That's all I'm scared about. All right, let me eat ah we roll the die. right, here it goes. wereing Rolling the die.
00:14:20
Speaker
Four, that's me. I'm going. I'm going with my tidbit. I'm going to try to make it quick, but it's it's a good one and it's worth milking. if The title of it is Sometimes Corporations Aren't Pure Evil.
00:14:33
Speaker
oh 1939 Chicago. There's a huge national department store named Montgomery Ward. Basically like Sears. And if you're too young to remember Sears, it was basically Amazon, like just a big giant department store all over the country.
00:14:47
Speaker
Christmas is approaching. Montgomery Ward wanted to generate a Christmas giveaway booklet. This was something they had done in previous years and had some success with. They would create these free books for kids. The kids want the book. It pulls the parents into the store. People do their holiday shopping at Montgomery Ward because of the book.
00:15:04
Speaker
It was a little costly to like make the book, but it was lucrative in the end, and it's all about the bottom line, right? It's all about the bottom line. This year, Montgomery Awards executives, they say, we have writers in-house. We have you know a whole team of copywriters. Why don't we save ourselves a buck and do this in-house? So they approach a copywriter, a young advertising copywriter. His name is Robert L. May. And he's got some aspirations of being a writer, which they're aware of. He does good work with the catalog. you know So they're like, hey, let's let's give him a shot to to do this.
00:15:38
Speaker
What they don't know really is that Robert L. May is barely holding his life together. His wife is dying of cancer. They can't afford the treatments. He's got tons of medical debt and he's raising five-year-old daughter in a tiny apartment. and And all the while, he's going to work every day writing cheerful holiday advertising, like, you know, available in three great colors, you know. That's cheerful holiday advertising? Well, I mean, available in three attractive colors with reindeer. I don't know. So- better The suits approach Robert Almay, and they essentially like, listen, can you just write a cute Christmas story for kids? And he almost refuses. He's a grown-ass man. In the 1930s, it's not cool to write kids' stories if you're a dude. He's also got all this personal stress. He has aspirations of being a writer, but not a children's writer.
00:16:28
Speaker
But he needs his job, so he throws himself into it. So he's like, what am I going to write? And he starts reflecting on his own childhood. He was shy. He was awkward. He was bullied. a lot like the three of you, but not me. The U.S. s is really cool. yeah yeah He also reflects on his current situation. He's feeling isolated. He's caring for his dying wife, but her death is inevitable. He's consumed with grief.
00:16:55
Speaker
And then he reflects on his own daughter, Barbara, and what he might want to say to her. And that was the key for him. So he wanted to see her free of sadness and anxiety and to be accepted and to find belonging and to find meaning and to find appreciation. He later indicated that he wanted her to know things can be hard, but the story can still turn out okay.
00:17:17
Speaker
And he wanted her to know being a helper was the greatest path to all of that. So he creates a character who is different, who's ostracized, ultimately a helpful guide. It's not Santa. It's not Jesus. He writes a story of a misfit who finds meaning in his own misfittedness. He writes the story of... Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Rudolph, how did you guys know?
00:17:41
Speaker
You almost said I'm not stepping on punchlines, so I think we didn't want to say it. I know, I know. But this time, it's Christmas. It's Christmas time. Oh, okay. Go ahead. So the the department store prints millions of copies, and they give away to families across the mayor America, and Rudolph becomes like an overnight sensation. Robert L. May receives exactly nothing because he was an employee. The corporation owns it. He's worked for hire. He gets his salary. That's it.
00:18:03
Speaker
So after the publication, his wife dies. He's now a widowed father with tons of debt. Meanwhile, Rudolph is a huge hit. Every year, more and more books about Rudolph. The store has like you know window displays and toys and holiday decorations that are Rudolph. It basically becomes like the brand of Montgomery Ward, right? Montgomery Ward starts to realize there's more profit to be had here. People are calling about publishing stories, licensing Rudolph.
00:18:30
Speaker
And the executives at Montgomery Ward are salivating. And they had an executive meeting. And they explained to the president, his name was Sewell Avery. They say, hey, we can make a lot of money here. Sewell Avery starts salivating too. Because in the end, it's all about the bottom line, right?
00:18:44
Speaker
Then somebody in the room stands up and he says, i want you guys to know that the man who created Rudolph has worked loyally for us for years. His wife died a couple years ago.
00:18:55
Speaker
He's raising her alone. He has debts. We can change this man's life by giving him the rights to his own creation. And doing so would be in the spirit of the holiday Rudolph was created for.
00:19:07
Speaker
The room's silent, and by some Christmas miracle, Montgomery Ward does exactly that. They transfer ownership to Robert L. May, No licensing agreement, no partnership for royalty deals, just pure humanity.
00:19:21
Speaker
They also – I thought this was the coolest part. They didn't go to the press. They didn't go to the press to say, look what we did. They they didn't weren't patting themselves on the back. They did this quietly. The only reason we know about it is because decades later, Robert L. May tells the story. And when they ask the president, Avery, why he did it, he simply says, because it was the right thing to do. And that's what he did. And it changes Robert
Evolution of Christmas as a Holiday
00:19:43
Speaker
L. May's life. He self-publishes the book, pays off his debt. His brother-in-law, Johnny Marks, was an unknown songwriter. And he's like, hey, brother, I want to take a stab at this. And Robert L. May is like, all right, go ahead. And he writes the song, the song we all know. Robert L. May is like, I dig it. Let's sell it. They pitch it to like every record company. Every record company is now, it's childish, it's silly. They pitch it to Gene Autry. Gene Autry is like, no, it's childish. It's silly. Gene Autry's wife says, that's a good so Christmas song.
00:20:10
Speaker
Go do it. And so he does it. And it becomes, you know, it becomes Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. becomes a huge hit. I mean, it's like one of the greatest, you know, hit songs in American history. And then the 1964 Christmas special still holds the record as the longest running, continuously aired Christmas television special in American history. I think it's cool that Rudolph is younger than most of our grandparents were. Dasher and Dancer are like folklore, predating the Civil War. But the ninth reindeer who's out in front was hired by a department store. One last thing. Robert L. May remarries happily ever after. He marries when Barbara is now 10. Barbara is close to her stepmother, Virginia, her whole life long. Robert dies in 1976. He taught us that the thing that makes you different can be the thing that makes you important. And that's that's exactly what happened to him. Merry Christmas. hit God bless us, everyone. Oh, my God. That's gross. There were many a lonely night when I was being bullied, evidently, consistently, that the story of Rudolph and the message gave me comfort and succor in the cold evenings.
00:21:12
Speaker
I'm so glad that I did. I'm so glad that you had that. I will let the carolers back in if they sing Rudolph the Red Moon. Okay. That now is a nice story that I like, that I'm definitely going to be telling. Both those stories I will be telling next Christmas. Mike and Gaz, you guys would particularly appreciate because you're both artists. And in later years, I mean, this is 1939, and people are still fighting for I mean, particularly in the comic book industry, there were a lot of amazing artists who never got paid for the work that they did. And here is 1939, where that was like kind of unheard of. And they did
Christmas vs. Thanksgiving Debate
00:21:47
Speaker
the right thing. And I wish more corporations were operating like that. That's my story.
00:21:52
Speaker
Agreed. i yeah My follow up Well, I love that we both did Christmas carols. And mine is like, this is terrible. And you're like this is great. So it's the same but complete opposite. But I will give a little bit of a negative follow up. And I love Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, the song, the Rankin Bass show, all that.
00:22:07
Speaker
But I have heard it suggested that it is sort of a pro-capitalist thing in the sense that being different is bad unless your difference is useful to others. Because nobody liked that Rudolph had this nose. But when Santa had a need and this weird nose solved the need he had, then people like. It's a utilitarian argument.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know if this is always true, but I do think the message is it could you know it could be a blessing rather than a curse. It could be a positive thing. That is that is one interpretation and perhaps the one they wanted it to be. But I'm just saying there's another version. Well, just a flashback to high school. Petar is sad, making himself feel better, listening to Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, the message of like, it's okay to be different. And Gaz shows up and says, only if it's useful.
00:22:56
Speaker
you just You just see my psyche just crumble, which is why I became a professor, obviously, because that's what society needs. I was breaking you down to build you up to save society. i i have distinct memories, not to make this turn into old home week, but I remember I may have been Mike and Rob watching that Rankin Bass when we were in high school and being taken aback by how overtly crappy the coach is. Like, too rude of us, right? Yeah, like like really rude. Even the mean streets of the 1990s in New Jersey, that the idea of Donner being like, you're a freak, was like, that's a big notch.
00:23:36
Speaker
That's not nice. That's not nice. All right, that's ah let's start let's jump into the next tidbits. You guys ready? All right, here it goes. Ah, it's it's ah it's it's Petar.
00:23:48
Speaker
Oh, shit. Petar. Petar. Petar. That's what my grandmother called me. She couldn't pronounce her my name either. She's a Petar. I feel so much better knowing your grandma. It's okay. She's dead. so yeah.
00:24:06
Speaker
So if I go into professor mode, cut me off. And by the way, if any of the millions of tidbitters out there are any of my students, I see you. I love you. And thank you so much for ever being in one of my classes. I'm honored to teach you all. Alrighty. So it is Christmas. it is There we go. Oh no, I'm going ruin it all by talking about the medieval and early modern practice of Christmas.
00:24:31
Speaker
Something specific to the Anglo-Saxon tradition England. Mike, you maybe have experienced this growing up in England. Something called wassailing. Has anyone ever heard of this? I have not.
00:24:43
Speaker
Here we go, wassailing. Here we go. Oh! started wassailing, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, all right. Or wassail, you know, petar, petar.
00:24:57
Speaker
The idea of wassailing was that the poor in the towns would go to the rich people's homes. They would sing songs and
Quantum Leap Christmas Episode
00:25:06
Speaker
demand treats from the people that lived in the homes. Now that sounds, it's it's the beginnings of caroling. That sounds rather benevolent. But in reality, these wassailing youths would generally turn it into a bacchanalia where everybody would get rip-roaring drunk.
00:25:24
Speaker
And they would almost turn things into quasi-riots and demand gifts from the rich. And if you think about a song such as We Wish You a Merry Christmas, that was considered a pretty typical wassail carol. If you think about it, that those singers are demanding figgy pudding, but they don't just ask, bring us right here. We won't go until we get some. We won't go until we get some. We won't. So that basically you can imagine some sort of foppish, you know wealthy bourgeoisie from the 1600s. Oh my God! Woo! Yes. You know, sending them out there. um
00:26:08
Speaker
Up until about the 1600s, the practice of Christmas, especially in England and and in other parts of Europe, was more of a festival and a party than it was the solemn gathering of family for gifts and, you know, Rankin-Bass shows. One of the main... ideas is that originally that the celebration of Christmas was 12 days, hence the 12 days of Christmas. And it would culminate on the last night with the last evening known as Twelfth Night. Twelfth Night was also called the Feast of Fools. And it had its origins actually in pagan society and even Roman society before that. And in the Feast of Fools, what would happen is that the social constructs would be turned upside down.
00:26:52
Speaker
So the wealthy would serve the poor and the poor would act as the royals and the lords. And it was this kind of topsy turvy kind of experience where everyone's getting loaded. Everyone's having, and they would take the poorest man in the neighborhood, make him king for the day. And the king or the local Lord would serve on him while everybody's getting loaded and making out and just going to town. And if you think about it, the Shakespearean play Twelfth Night, or what you will, has a lot of those ideas of blending conformist ideas of society and customs. Very famously, Viola dresses up like a man and falls in love in the character. So she's violating that social norm. There's a character called Malvolio who is tricked into thinking that he is a noble and he's made to lampoon and made fun of because he gets power for one part of the play and then he's made fun of at the end. So it's this idea of turning your social constructs, your norms, upside down. Now, that's not my main point.
00:27:56
Speaker
My main point, however, is in 1659, the Massachusetts Bay Colony, the colony that becomes the colony of Massachusetts, the state of Massachusetts, enacts a law called the Penalty for Keeping Christmas. And in this law, they say, by reasons of
Star Trek Series Discussion
00:28:13
Speaker
some still observing such festivals which are superstitiously kept in other countries to the great dishonor of god and the offen of others it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing such day as cri
00:28:27
Speaker
christmas or the like shall either be forbearing of labor feasting, or in any way, upon any such account as foresaid, such person offending shall pay for such offense five shillings, which is $50 equivalent in money.
00:28:42
Speaker
The colony was ruled by Puritan. By Scrooge. but Well, not even just Scrooge, a Puritan religious government. So they they followed English civil law, criminal law, as well as biblical law.
00:28:53
Speaker
Now, this ban was reversed in 1681 when Massachusetts Bay became a royal colony. But in reality, Christmas was not a federal holiday until 1870. After Jingle Bells.
00:29:08
Speaker
After Jingle Bells even. And i i hear it was first done in a minstrel show. yeah But then when you dig deeper into why the Puritans hated Christmas, they often called it a popish festival with no biblical justification.
00:29:23
Speaker
And popism and that sort of religiosity, that's a full yeah that's your bag. That's awesome. That's fantastic. But when you dig a little more deep deeply into why they didn't like Christmas, yeah it was because of the leveling of social classes that was inherent in the practices. Right. They were sick, sick of giving up their status for one night. Well, yeah. But the interesting thing is that Puritans themselves were anti-nobility. They didn't recognize kings. They were anti-monarchy. But they felt that someone's wealth and prosperity was a sign of God's favor.
00:29:55
Speaker
So that if you were turning that upside down, then you were undoing what God wrought. And so then, therefore, you shouldn't celebrate Christmas and you should pay 50 shillings.
00:30:07
Speaker
I am so sorry, people that like to comment in on on Facebook statuses, but it wasn't Starbucks that I love Christmas. It was the Puritans.
00:30:19
Speaker
um man That was great. I need to figure out a way to summarize that in like a lawn display because neighbor passed away and it was a Christian Christmas thing up and I was like, no! Do not...
00:30:35
Speaker
I keep it even more old school. i keep it with the Puritans of Massachusetts Bay. Well, you know, and in actuality, supposedly, and this is apocryphal, I haven't been able to prove it yet. Yet.
00:30:48
Speaker
but Yet. I'm working on it. When the Puritans first landed, the Pilgrims in 1620, supposedly they built their first fort literally on Christmas Day. sort of as a statement to everybody that is assembled in this colony. No, no, no. This is this is how we're going to roll from here on out is, you know, you you work on Christmas. We're working. yeah Yes, we are working. It's work day. Yes, you don't get off, right? Yeah. It was run by Scrooge. I get that it was puritanical. Fattar, do you think... So it's surprising to me to hear that Christmas wasn't a federal holiday till the late 1800s. Do you think, as you mentioned, I'm from England, do you think it was the around longer as a... Well, no, it was around, right? you know but But it's a federal holiday. The idea is that you would officially not work on that day. That was not done until... And that was largely because New England was a holdout. like Supposedly, that there's some places in New England that really were not into Christmas as we know it until sort of the commercialization that we were talking about in the 1920s, the when you had creation
00:31:47
Speaker
thirty s when you had the creation of You had the creation of mass culture, right? And so that's you. Oh, well I want Santa. And so then that's sort of an idea. So, yeah. And in areas specifically that were very anti-Anglican, such as the Puritanical New England area, anything of the Anglican church, they wanted nothing to do with because they considered it a holdover from popism and medieval thought and superstition. I love that. There's a movie I watched, Pater, I'm curious to know if you know, my suspicion is that the movie grossly exaggerates. The movie was called The Man Who Invented Christmas, and it's basically arguing that Charles Dickens writing A Christmas Carol is what led to Christmas like becoming such a gigantic cultural phenomenon. I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that. I haven't seen the film, but I think great it's a great movie. But it's but see, the thing is, too, is that hashtag not all England, Mike, but in the mid 1600s, there was a puritanical government in England, too, that also outlawed Christmas and shut down the shut down the theaters and ah prevented musical performances, didn't allow for dancing. There's actually a very good quote by Ronald Reagan about Puritans. The Puritanism is a sense somehow, some way, someone is having fun and you've got to stop it. and I've heard that. I didn't know that was a Reagan quote actually. Yeah, supposedly it's Reagan. I mean look, footnote me. I don't know. ah
Personal Christmas Experiences
00:33:06
Speaker
You know, that's the argument I've seen also is that it was largely sort of just a you're going to have a goose or whatever. You know how they have modern speakeasies like mimicking the prohibition days where people go and have these wacky drinks, dress up like flappers and stuff.
00:33:17
Speaker
I'm not a drinker. And so I've missed out on that. But I would love it if we had these like secret Christmas clubs I could go to. Yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
be like you know, I'm not religious, but I go crazy at Christmas. Oh, me too. And in this country, it's it's the the very hardcore Christians who are super into Christmas nowadays. But I think that the idea is that the way that we have Christmas, it's sort of this quasi-pagan winter celebration, you know, where you can sort of, and I think Mike's neighbor, who angrily says to keep Christ at Christmas, they got to they've got a point. I mean, know. We're bringing back paganism. Yeah. Depending on how you view America, because i what I love about Christmas and I'm not religious either, but I've always loved Christmas and I continue to, but I love it's to me, it's a very American holiday the way it exists now where you could be Catholic, you could be just Christian, you could be atheist, you could be super into the commercial aspect of it. You could live like be a Wiccan whatever, like kind of everybody can do their own version of Christmas, but we're all doing it together. And I actually, I, i love that. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, like that. All right. This might be a question, a controversial question to throw out here on Christmas at the Tidbits Tower. um Which is a better holiday, Thanksgiving or Christmas? Christmas.
00:34:31
Speaker
who Who thinks Thanksgiving's a better holiday? Well, some people like it because it's a more American holiday. if if you If you have some sort of trauma associated with Christmas and like you hate it for some specific reason, I get it.
00:34:43
Speaker
Like in Gremlin. or or Or, you know, from a background that doesn't celebrate Christmas. If you if you have the option of celebrating Christmas or Thanksgiving, who's picking Thanksgiving? Yeah. I think anybody that wants to avoid the religious connotation and the commercialization. Like, I didn't want to get too into it, but I'm like an atheist and I have been for decades and I love Christmas. So like easily avoid the religious part of it and just enjoy spending time with your friends and family, putting up lights and eating cookies. Love, love one another. to me, the message of Christmas is, you know, coming together and enjoying family and friends and Yeah, same. And I guess I came on strong, but the pets are like, you clearly asked that question in good faith. And I just like, was like, no Christmas, shut up. But like,
Favorite Tidbits Debate
00:35:24
Speaker
why, why do you ask that?
00:35:26
Speaker
Oh, cause I'm stirring the pot because that's what I do. Right. and that's yeah So tell me you know, which is Mike, which Mike, you're, you're, you're suspicious quiet with, you know, cause the first like Robin gas are like, blah, Christmas. Did you have your snack? I, so I like Christmas better. Uh, I have heard people, Mike, my parents have said they like Thanksgiving better. Possibly like as immigrants, it's like a nice thing, but they also do like there's less buying stuff, but just what you were just saying, guys. So like my wife's Jewish, we didn't celebrate Christmas before. in our house until my daughter was like three or four years old because we were starting to feel like kind of bad for her because all her relatives were having Christmas.
00:36:06
Speaker
And like my wife loves Christmas now. oh hello into christmas like We had so much like Christmas bullshit showing up at our house this year. Like if you'd order an Amazon, like Santa Claus's and things like that. Yeah. It's fun. It's pagan. It's so good. yeah right yeah i Christmas becomes, I hate Christmas the day after I'm over it. But now in February, I'm ready again.
00:36:33
Speaker
I don't like deconstructing Christmas. That's lot fun. yeah, taking Christmas stuff down is depressing. I hate that. Oh, it's the worst. I mean, there is nothing worse than January. January is just the long dark of January. it's just the long haul through the rest of winter.
00:36:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah shut up. You live in Florida, right? You know, like you like you don't know winter. It gets a little chilly. And no more weather tidbits. Right, right. Viva la revolution. I will talk. i will talk ISO bars, all right? You know, like this. I thought that was a great tidbit. I would love my tidbit.
00:37:03
Speaker
ah You mentioned Christmas Carol, so I'm sure we all remember. Wait, are you starting? Yeah. Oh, I thought you were talking to Pat Tarr. Okay, great. I'm sorry. I'm segueing. This is the show, Rob. We're doing the show right now. So everybody remembers episode six, season three of Quantum Leap, right? Oh, yeah. Was that when he didn't get home?
00:37:20
Speaker
No. So episode three. He's the servant of the rich guy. Exactly be right. How do you do? Jesus, that's impressive, guys. Wait, did Gaz know? What is the episode? So it's the Christmas Carol episode. Sam leaps into like a a servant of a sort of rich asshole. I heard it described as kind of Trumpy, but i don't remember actually the episode at all. But it's the 1960s. This rich developer is going to destroy the Salvation Army or or some sort of goodwill kind of thing. He's going to develop on top of it. Sam has to save his soul. He has the idea to Scrooge. He's going to show him his past. He like finds stuff in the house to show this, this mean old rich guy, like stuff about when he was, you know, younger to try to like get the humanity inside. He's able to take him over to the mission and sort of like, kind of like soften him a little bit, like seeing the people in need. But somehow the, it's described as the neurons and borons of this guy that Sam is helping working for. is on the same level as Sam. So this man can see Al. i don't know if you all remember in the show, Quantum Leap. Pause for just a second. Is your whole tidbit just summarizing this episode? Hold on, hold on. Good on you if that's it, but go ahead. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. So this guy could see Al.
00:38:32
Speaker
Wait, for those that don't know, Al is hologram. I was about to explain what it was. Okay, well, you weren't getting there quick. I assume everybody here is very familiar with the show Quantum Leap, but the way it works is Sam leaps into people's bodies from, like, throughout time. He's there to fix things. Once he fixes things, he's endlessly cursed to have to, like, then go fix something else, and it never stops, and he's never going to get relief. He has a hologram from the future named Al, who only he can see and talk to. And Al gives him, like, tips. Interestingly, they're really the only two cast members of the show because there's no one else, like, you know, credited. Like, no one else ever comes back, like, except for those two. So this man can see Al. So they're able to set up some sort of, like, ghost of Christmas future thing where Al, like, dresses up, like, as a ghost and spooks the guy and assume probably gets him to, like, unscrooge by the end. Because I didn't actually watch the episode and listen to...
00:39:28
Speaker
But this guy summarizing it as I was. i' my I'm away right now. I'm in Atlantic City. And while i was driving down, I listened someone on YouTube. Tell me what happened this. But I assume that it worked out and Sam went somewhere else. Probably. So the tidbit is when you have tv shows with 22 episode seasons, you can do bullshit episodes. like Which also they did on Star Trek The Next Generation. There was an episode called Tapestry where Q takes – That was more It's Wonderful Life. I didn't watch it. I just saw – You're just going to talk about shows you haven't watched. You're the you're the ultimate commentator. you know like I didn't watch this, but I have an opinion on it. like So the tidbit is, ah because we've lost this now in the quote unquote golden age of television. Everything you know costs a lot to produce. so so ah tv So TV seasons are much, much shorter.
00:40:26
Speaker
um I did watch Picard season one and I thought it was wonderful. Like, It was a more recent show with Picard from that Star Trek The Next Generation. It was wonderful. But they couldn't squeeze in like some nonsense Christmas episode, like in like episode four of that. So, tidbit A is, wouldn't it be better if we had TV shows? Tidbit Tidbit B that the guy who played the jerk in the episode of Quantum Leap I'm telling you about, his name was Charles Rockett, and he killed himself by stabbing himself in the neck. Shoot. that's not a christmas story what a weird christmas episode rob when you edit this put yours last yeah here's the only nice one here's the only nice one wait that's it that you got nothing else mike because you you're famous for your tidbits that just keep going well got the impression you didn't like that i mike did you watch any of picard season two or three
00:41:24
Speaker
No, because I'm telling you a while ago to go to season three because you'll like season three. No, he won't because one was all about being depressing and holding up a mirror to the horrible world we currently live in. Season three was like, hey, maybe things could be better. Remember how it used to be nice? Yeah. Remember how we were optimistic? The whole show is about being optimistic. I mean, I'm right where Mike is. Actually, my i have been very choosy in what Star Trek shows I've been watching recently. And I'm two episodes into Picard season two, and everyone tells me to skip to three, but I don't do that. be the good I get it. of Season two, you'll like and then you'll hate.
00:41:59
Speaker
Eventually, you'll like it at first, but but then season three will kind of win you back over. I have the same relationship with discovery and I know that, you know, like, well, no, because like I first started watching, I was like I'm just going to watch it just because everybody else is flipping out about, you know, inclusion and I'm going to watch this and season one, season two, season three, season four. And then I realized she's just always crying all the time.
00:42:21
Speaker
And then I was like, everyone's always talking about their feelings. Like, yeah. Lowered X is actually straight up the best Star Trek I've seen. It's fantastic. best like do agree mean It is that Star Trek. I agree as well. It's a Christmas miracle.
00:42:41
Speaker
think that's a good note to uh to end on i don't think it you know in the christmas spirit i don't think we all need to take a vote and agree that mine was the best tidbit i think it's if we don't vote to christmas how are we gonna oh wait we can't assign something cause mike still has to do his zelda tidbit from like yeah yeah you guys want to vote let's let's vote mike what's your vote for a best tidbit i am torn because i very much like robs and i very much like petars i i did hear gases I would be so offended if I didn't put mine together an hour ago.
00:43:10
Speaker
half a point for Pettar and a half a point for me. Gaz, I know you're not goingnna vote for me because you're my arch nemesis. I'm going to go with Pettar because, unfortunately, Rob, I knew everything you'd done already. And Mike was just like somebody talking about something they hadn't seen. So I can't give a point for that. So Pettar actually learned something. So he gets my point.
00:43:29
Speaker
I'm definitely voting for Patar. I loved it. Patar wins! I want to go sit in Patar's classes. I love it. It's faith the best. I get to teach American government. I get to teach ethics. I get teach to teach institutional racism. I get to teach U.S. history. It's it's fantastic. Two the greatest students in the world. The students at the college that I work at that I will not mention.
00:43:51
Speaker
But yeaha yeah, anytime you're up here, Rob, and you feel like coming to place for that good. Yeah, i would I would love it. I would totally love it. Patar, what's your vote? caught It's not Mike. It's not Mike. I know that. What's wrong with mine? why actually, Rob, I would vote for you because I felt touched at the end. It was it made it made me happy. It was like a Christmas spirit sort of story. Yeah, that's what I was going for. And then Mike and I ruined it but by contextualizing it in the real world. I think Gaz is the one who ruined it by like, um, actually, someone's different, but it's done helping them get better. They're just worse off. i'm getting an echo I'm hearing my own voice coming back at me. Does Santa have anything to else to contribute before we end this tidbit?
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah, you're all, everybody's good. If you're good, listen. You're good. Yeah.
00:44:44
Speaker
Thank you, Santa. Thank you for that very nuanced take on... See you in ten minutes. Yeah, see you later. I don't... Alright, bye everybody!
00:44:56
Speaker
Rudolph's nose reindeer had a very shiny nose and if you ever saw it you would even say it glows All of the other reindeer used to laugh and call him names.
00:45:16
Speaker
They never let poor Rudolph join in any reindeer games. Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Santa came to say, Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you guide my sleigh tonight?
00:45:37
Speaker
Then how the reindeer loved him, as they shouted out with glee, Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer, you'll go down in history.