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Build the Stage: Mallory Willsea on Media, AI, and Escaping the Status Quo
40 Plays1 month ago
What does it take to break free from the gravitational pull of “business as usual” in higher ed marketing? In this episode of Escape Velocity, Tracey Halvorsen sits down with Mallory Willsea—B2B media consultant, AI strategist, and award-winning host of Higher Ed Pulse.
Mallory shares how she built and scaled media brands like Higher Ed Live and Enrollify, why she believes leaders should stop waiting for permission and start building their own stage, and what it really takes to adopt AI without falling for hype. Along the way, she and Tracey delve into the realities of trust versus likability in leadership, why time is the biggest barrier to AI adoption, and how small risks can accumulate into big wins—even in tradition-bound institutions.
Whether you’re navigating higher ed, rethinking your career, or simply looking for inspiration to take the leap, this conversation will leave you with frameworks, metaphors, and courage to try the things that scare you most.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction of Guests
00:00:08
Tracey Halvorsen
Welcome everyone to another episode of Escape Velocity. I'm your host, Tracy Halverson. And today i am chatting with Mallory Wilsey, who I've known about for years, just in the networks that I've been in.
00:00:23
Tracey Halvorsen
And Mallory, thank you for joining me. Thanks for being here. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself.
00:00:29
Mallory
Hi, Tracy. It is awesome to be on this side of a podcast mic for once. I am the host of the Higher Ed Pulse podcast, an award-winning podcast on the Enrollify Network, and I'm also a consultant in the higher ed space.
00:00:44
Mallory
I help brands build authority through market presence and influence, and we're definitely going to unpack what that actually means, I am sure, and during this podcast.
00:00:55
Tracey Halvorsen
Well, thank you so much. you know, I've seen, I've just watched what you've been up to over the years and, and kind of seeing your, your journeys through different, you know, working with different media platforms and, and organizations. And you've definitely, you know, created an arc for yourself. You've made some pivots and some, some changes.
Women in Leadership and Opportunity Creation
00:01:17
Tracey Halvorsen
And when we were chatting about this, one of the things that, you started talking about was, you know, not waiting to be invited to a seat at a table.
00:01:27
Tracey Halvorsen
And I just want to start there because as women in business, right.
00:01:27
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:01:32
Tracey Halvorsen
And, uh, just tell me more about when, when did you realize that that was something that you needed to really embrace?
00:01:40
Mallory
Yeah, that's a great place to start. This idea of women in leadership is ah ah one of those hot button topics for me. ah ah It really always has been, especially because most of the rooms that I've been in, whether I was early career or you know at my last role, I never always felt like those rooms were built for me.
00:02:02
Mallory
I often looked around and i felt like or visibly saw that I was one of the very few women in that room and often the youngest person in that room, which is a whole other topic.
00:02:14
Mallory
And I think that for me, i maybe the metaphor that resonates most is is building the stage that you want to step onto. um Because I grew up as a theater kid, Broadway is my most expensive habit, and um I'm also a fitness instructor. And so this idea of being able to step onto your own stage and give yourself a microphone is kind of what drives me, you know, when I wake up every morning, right? What what is the stage I'm going to step onto today? And what am I going to say into that microphone? And and I always want to make sure that it's, you know, that that i'm I'm saying something that that is going to have an impact, right? And and I take that
00:02:57
Mallory
idea of creating that stage and putting the microphone in front of me really seriously because words really matter. is a tough time that we are in right now, just in general, in life, post-pandemic and politically and and all these things in our industry that are happening, right? And so every day feels serious and maybe more serious
Leadership and Conflict
00:03:18
Mallory
than the day before. So it's It is so important, I think, as young leaders, as as female leaders, that that we just, you know, we we just stop waiting for people to hand the mic to us, build our own stages, and and just kind of take control.
00:03:36
Tracey Halvorsen
and I agree. You know, i I love working with you know younger women that are coming into the industry, whether it's at my agency now or just through the networks I have.
00:03:48
Tracey Halvorsen
And one of the things I always say is, you know, no one's going to, don't wait for people to ask your opinion, right, to in order to have one. Have an opinion. be It doesn't matter how early you are in your career, how much experience you have.
00:04:04
Tracey Halvorsen
have an opinion and don't be scared to share it. You can always change your mind, but write about it, talk about it, put it out there. If you think that you have an opinion or perspective or experience that through sharing that can result in, you know, transformation impact in your own life, in others' lives, in the work that you're doing, don't keep it to yourself.
00:04:26
Tracey Halvorsen
know, I think that there is such a, there's, there's so many people that are, that do wait to be given the platform. and, and whether you're a leader by title or not, that's really, in my opinion, what leadership is about. It's about stepping up and saying, I have an opinion. i think I know how things could be better, whether that's for someone that you're working with or a client or for yourself,
00:04:49
Tracey Halvorsen
So I, yeah, i champion that. I think it's scary, right? It's very scary to put yourself out there and and express those things. How did you overcome some of that fear? What did you encounter moments in your career where you were like, oh God, is anybody listening? Is this mattering? You know, what am I doing this for?
00:05:09
Mallory
Yeah, that's such a good question. And yeah so I'm having these two competing thoughts and only one thing can come out at once. The first thing I'm thinking of is the tenets of storytelling.
00:05:23
Mallory
and how conflict is a tenant of telling a good story, right?
00:05:28
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:05:28
Mallory
There is no good story if you don't have some level of conflict. And in fact, you probably have to have a lot of conflict in order for a good story to be made.
00:05:36
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:05:37
Mallory
Right? Pixar, Disney, like this is this is core. and And so having an opinion, and and I say this as somebody who loves to avoid conflict, do not get me wrong, but like having an opinion can generate some conflict.
00:05:50
Mallory
And that is actually far more interesting and engaging and attention-grabbing than not, right?
00:05:50
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:05:58
Mallory
Than the opposite. And so advice I often do give to people I'm managing, especially who are early in their career, is very similar to what you were just saying around, you know, true leadership requires you to have an opinion and and to just kind of get over it, right?
00:06:12
Tracey Halvorsen
Mm-hmm.
00:06:15
Mallory
Like we just... It sounds simple and it's not. And I say that, but, but sometimes you just do, you just got to get over it and just say it, say the thing and have the opinion and know that what's influencing it is, is probably some really smart thinking. And that's what actually leads me to the second line of thought, right? As you ask that question, as I actually reflect back on my career,
00:06:37
Mallory
Almost every moment that really mattered required me to like jump off a cliff and and never actually know that my parachute was going to open up because it was a brand new parachute that like I'd never tried before.
00:06:52
Mallory
So, so every time I feel like I had this, this really important moment that pivoted my career or, or helped me achieve the next thing, it was because I at least trusted myself that I think I strapped the right parachute on for that, for that jump.
00:07:10
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:07:11
Mallory
and, That comes back to the point of having opinions because oftentimes jumping off that clip cliff required me to have an opinion where I actually didn't know.
00:07:20
Tracey Halvorsen
you
00:07:23
Mallory
I didn't have the ability to gather all the data to inform that opinion because I was doing things that had never been done before. And so sometimes it's just, again, maybe it comes back to trusting yourself and and building that own stage for yourself.
00:07:36
Mallory
Yeah. But look, I'm always open and the first one to say if my opinion is incorrect or I need to change it. And I think that's the beauty of education and the beauty of us being in higher education with more education, with more information. We always can continue to grow and shift and mold and shape our thoughts.
00:07:57
Tracey Halvorsen
Would that, that's great. ah Would you consider yourself a, one of those, you know, lifelong learners? Are you always looking to learn new things or are you a curious person?
Lifelong Learning and AI in Education
00:08:09
Mallory
Yes, a hungry and curious person for knowledge. We were talking about my alma mater, St. Michael's College, right before we hit record. And, you know, I really credit that institution with fostering that ah ah drive to learn. I am so such a fan of the liberal arts.
00:08:29
Mallory
I think that the kind of the core things of of learning how to learn and and how to think, are so important and just are increasing in importance every single day. i think I just saw an article over the weekend that one of the leaders at at one of those AI companies out there, you know, I don't know if it ChatGPT, but one of them,
00:08:50
Mallory
actually came out and said the biggest skill to have right now as a young person is learning how to learn. So I think that the world that we're in, um it's it's necessary. And I guess i I'm lucky that that it's something I always hunger for. It's not something that I have to force myself into.
00:09:07
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, you know, it's ah ah there's such a it's a paradox, really, because I think as humans, we we look for certainty. We look for safety. You know, we're we're wired that way, right?
00:09:18
Tracey Halvorsen
If the cave's not collapsing, like, we're going to stay in the cave for our shelter.
00:09:21
Mallory
Yes.
00:09:22
Tracey Halvorsen
Right. But then there is this curiosity for knowledge and learning and and change. And also then conflict happens, right? There is no certainty in life and things change is inevitable.
00:09:35
Tracey Halvorsen
So whether that's a change that you brought on because of your curiosity or your experience or it's brought to you by just life, there's really no such thing as just rinse and repeat, you know, and for whatever reason, I think that we start out our lives thinking, well, we're going to get to a certain point and then it's all going to be, we're just going to be fully formed. And then it's just, we get into, you know, the process of living our lives and it's smooth sailing and it couldn't be further from the truth, unfortunately, fortunately. Right. But that's, that's kind of what life's about.
00:10:07
Tracey Halvorsen
and For me, it's always been important to keep learning because that's how you keep growing and changing.
00:10:15
Mallory
oh
00:10:17
Tracey Halvorsen
And it's so easy for people, think, to just kind of stop and say, well, I guess, you know, this is it. and That's where that idea of escape velocity comes into play for me because you know things are going to happen in your life that are going to cause you to need to you know fire up the rockets and and escape kind of what's no longer serving you anymore.
00:10:43
Tracey Halvorsen
to get to that new place or grow to that next level. But I don't think it's very easy for people to know how to do that. And I think it's very scary. And like you said, it requires some some leaps of faith and some trust in yourself and all all of that.
00:10:58
Tracey Halvorsen
I'm curious along this whole you know angle that we're going down, AI, right? AI comes on the scene. And to me, it reminds me of the early days of the web.
00:11:13
Tracey Halvorsen
There's just so much unknown. There's so much potential. This is powerful technology. And I see a lot of different perspectives on, you know, whether it's the devil and, you know, it's going to ruin the, destroy the world and everyone's lives, or whether it's, you know, the There's people out there, the the snake oil salesmen who are, you know, instantly trying to sell you their courses on it or all of
00:11:35
Mallory
yeah
00:11:37
Tracey Halvorsen
Tell me about how AI has, because I know you work in the world of of AI with some of your, you know, your past jobs.
00:11:43
Mallory
you
00:11:44
Tracey Halvorsen
And how does that factor into what you're doing right now, professionally and personally? What do you think about it?
00:11:50
Mallory
Yeah.
00:11:50
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:11:51
Mallory
I am very much on the record as being a proponent for AI. um I do believe that you know the promises of you know being more effective and efficient, being able to work alongside this incredible tool, um treating it like an intern, et cetera, et cetera. like I I ah really deeply believe in all of those things.
00:12:13
Mallory
I was at Element 451 when you know we like to say AI happened, right? Because yeah, of course, like artificial intelligence has been ah ah around a lot longer than the dawn of ChatGPT, right?
00:12:24
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:12:27
Mallory
Like and we've been using it in our own homes for a lot longer than the fall of 2022 or three or whatever.
00:12:33
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah Yeah.
00:12:36
Mallory
But with the ability to integrate generative AI into our work, oh my gosh, it just... it unlocks so much. I saw it for myself. I saw it for the team I was managing.
00:12:50
Mallory
I saw it for the business I was working in. And thank goodness I was working for a leader, Artis Kadu, who had been steeped in the world of AI for many years and was the biggest advocate for it internally. I mean, literally like on a dime, everything changed overnight for us.
00:13:10
Mallory
And all those plans and you know everything we had done for months leading into the next calendar year out the window because we're putting our bets on AI. It's here. It's not going anywhere and it's going to really matter.
00:13:24
Mallory
I think the industry is still catching up to that. you know I talk to a lot of leaders through my podcast, through speaking i do at various events, and I get it like a CMO or a chief of staff or know a VP of enrollment.
00:13:40
Mallory
they're being pulled in a lot of directions. AI is one of those directions. But I think that when we see the clear examples, and I point to Forsyth Tech Community College and President Janet Spriggs as a shining example of this quite often, because when we see these clear examples from early adopters with top-down leadership, where they've created a community among their organization, that experimentation and usage with AI is welcomed and championed, not something that you have to hide.
00:14:15
Mallory
And when the investments, the monetary investments being made in these tools actually come with an integration plan and top-down support and, and you know,
00:14:26
Mallory
task forces and policies and processes to actually utilize the tools the way they should be used, you start to, you know, quickly see the gains.
00:14:38
Tracey Halvorsen
Okay.
00:14:38
Mallory
And so, and and personally, right, so I might not be at a company, I'm on my own now, but my gosh, like I, while I have worked in digital and the web and all these things, I am not a web designer.
00:14:51
Mallory
i do not code. I, you know, like... You don't want to, you have beautiful paintings behind you, Tracy. You do not want to give me a paintbrush. There is no bone in my body that designs anything well.
00:15:06
Mallory
But now I can use these tools and I can create, you know, all of these things, my my own website, my own slide decks, you know, whatever it might be, because I have this incredibly capable assistant next to me and I've gotten really good at managing him or her.
00:15:21
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:15:24
Mallory
It? I don't know.
00:15:27
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, being creative, right? What i love about AI is that it does empower so many people to actually be expressive, more expressive with their own creativity and their own ideas and being able to get it out there into the the realm that we, you know, mostly live in these days, which is so much in the digital and on the on the web.
00:15:54
Tracey Halvorsen
That sounds like the unlock you're kind of talking about, right?
00:15:57
Mallory
yeah
00:15:57
Tracey Halvorsen
Like you don't want to have a paintbrush or being, you know, trying to go into Figma and design something, but the ideas are there. The, you know, the creativity is there.
00:16:05
Mallory
Right.
00:16:07
Tracey Halvorsen
And now these tools just through purely communicating your ideas can generate these manifestations of them. um um And you can change them and and launch them and all of that.
00:16:19
Tracey Halvorsen
It's
00:16:21
Mallory
It's incredible. I am in awe of what AI allows me to do every single day.
00:16:27
Tracey Halvorsen
Do you, when you're working with clients, where do you see the biggest obstacles most often? Is there a reoccurring theme, you know, in terms of them reaching that escape velocity in how they're adopting AI or using it? Is there a common barrier or a set of common barriers or, or, blockers that you see?
00:16:51
Mallory
I think there's a variety. It depends on the organization, depends if there's support from the top.
00:16:58
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:17:00
Mallory
But time is, maybe not surprisingly, but time is the biggest barrier. because And people get in their heads about it.
00:17:12
Mallory
AI moves incredibly fast. We know that. And so every day that we feel like we're falling behind, on AI is like exponential, right? More so than maybe some of these other innovations that have happened in the past.
00:17:29
Mallory
And so then we get stuck in that and more days go by and then we feel like we're even farther behind and that we have this you know massive AI mountain now that we have to climb.
00:17:40
Mallory
And so I think that that paralyzes some people
00:17:43
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:17:45
Mallory
and And so time is, I think, the number one thing that I see kind of across the board because people recognize, all right, well, like, I don't have any time, but I need to go put time into learning this thing.
00:17:55
Mallory
And and I go back to that.
00:17:56
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:17:58
Mallory
CEO at Element 451, who I think for me, the biggest unlock around the time barrier was when he pulled up a cartoon of a bunch of people dragging a cart with square wheels on it, right?
00:18:12
Mallory
We know how long that's going to take to drag that cart. And then the person standing in the back is holding the round wheel and saying, hey, just i got I got it.
00:18:15
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:18:20
Mallory
Just switch them out, switch them out. And everybody dragging the cart like, sorry, we don't have time to do that.
00:18:25
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:18:26
Mallory
Right. That, that like unlocks everything in my brain. I'm like, oh, you spend two minutes switching out the wheel and then you are running to the finish line 30 seconds later.
00:18:36
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:18:36
Mallory
Got it. So I try and use that example because I think it illustrates the point, but, yeah.
00:18:41
Tracey Halvorsen
No, I think it's it's great. And it does it does take some, you know, if you don't have someone at the top or that can really usher in the the wheel swaps,
00:18:52
Tracey Halvorsen
I think it's overwhelming for organizations to try to understand, because it's not like one wheel. It's not like you just sop swap all four wheels out with the round ones and you're off to the races.
00:18:57
Mallory
Right. Right.
00:19:01
Tracey Halvorsen
Every organization is different. Every need is going to be different. So where do you start to replace the wheels?
00:19:09
Mallory
right
00:19:10
Tracey Halvorsen
In what roles? you know what's the What's the expected you know transformation that you want to see? And how do you empower your team to like take that and run with it?
00:19:20
Mallory
And how do you help your team understand that they are not the wheel?
00:19:24
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:19:25
Mallory
The tool is the wheel, right? And you're not swapping them. You're helping them. Because, yeah you know, it's true.
00:19:29
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:19:31
Mallory
AI is going to automate and replace jobs. It just is a fact. But there is an art to leadership where we are at in this moment to help our teams understand that it's not replacing anybody today.
00:19:48
Mallory
most likely. And it is going to help them you know exponentially get more things done or at the very least be able to do the parts of their job that they hopefully enjoy the most.
00:20:02
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:20:03
Mallory
Yeah.
00:20:04
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I really appreciate not having to sit and edit things and proofread and, you know, hunt and peck for little bits of copy that I need to put together, you know, in a proposal or whatever it might be.
00:20:09
Mallory
Less.
00:20:17
Mallory
Yes.
00:20:18
Tracey Halvorsen
So a lot of time savers. And one of the things we did early on was just make sure that everybody on the team had access to these tools and
00:20:26
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:20:26
Tracey Halvorsen
And we started doing, you know, lunch and learns. Let's share what it's everybody, you know, be playing with it. Use it in your free time. Here's how I'm playing with it. Here's how I'm using it at home. You know, on the last podcast, I was talking with Christina Melito about one of the biggest wins for me was using chat GPT to help me fix a pepper grinder.
00:20:45
Tracey Halvorsen
used it this weekend to help me fix a receiver because some of my wires had come unplugged and things weren't working right. And so I was about to start pulling my hair out and getting really frustrated.
00:20:51
Mallory
Yeah.
00:20:54
Tracey Halvorsen
then I thought, oh no, I'll just take some pictures and give it to chat GPT. And sure enough, it just, it was like, oh, well you need to plug this in here and do that settings.
00:21:00
Mallory
ye
00:21:01
Tracey Halvorsen
I was like, thank you. Yeah.
00:21:03
Mallory
Mm-hmm. I had a friend who had something hanging down from the bottom of her car. I still don't really know what it was, but I took a photo of it and sent it into chat GPT.
00:21:11
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:21:13
Mallory
I was like, what what's going on and can she drive her car? And I was like, yeah, it's fine, but you know like I don't know anything about cars, right?
00:21:15
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:21:19
Mallory
But I could at least let her get behind the wheel and feel like, okay, you can leave my driveway and your car's not going to blow up.
00:21:24
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's such a powerful technology for, for so many different things. ah ah your, your car metaphor was just, or your car story was just making me think about something.
00:21:38
Tracey Halvorsen
i you know I think that there's there's real fear out there too around the you know the environmental impacts, the ethical use of these tools.
00:21:50
Tracey Halvorsen
And I know that that keeps a lot of people from engaging with them because they've kind of just written them off as as's not good for multitude of reasons.
00:21:53
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:22:01
Tracey Halvorsen
What what do you what are your thoughts on those on those sides of ai
00:22:07
Mallory
I mean, I'm getting on a plane tomorrow. Like there's an environmental impact to that as well.
00:22:12
Tracey Halvorsen
Yep. Yep.
00:22:12
Mallory
We're recording this on, you know, using technology and electricity and you know, i I at least drive an electric car.
00:22:16
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:22:20
Mallory
Is that my offset? I don't know I don't mean to be like flippant about the environmental component because I did stop saying thank you. Yeah. As a standalone because of the the education behind how much, you know, that that in and of itself, if everyone could just stop saying thank you to ChatGPT, we'd be saving a lot of trees.
00:22:39
Mallory
But I think that if we are going to stick our head in the sand on a very powerful and innovative new thing that is going to like reshape our world, you
00:22:40
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:22:55
Mallory
Like that we just, we can't, we can't stick our head in the sand. It's, it's going to happen either way
00:23:01
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:23:02
Mallory
And there's a lot of things in this world that have poor environmental impacts and we choose to do them every, you know, like I still do my two day shipping on Amazon. Like, and and so i it's all, it's all about balance, right?
00:23:12
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:23:13
Mallory
It's all about balance in life.
00:23:16
Tracey Halvorsen
Well, I know. And, you know, with every big change, there is a negative, I mean, you know, with the industrial revolution and, you know,
00:23:21
Mallory
Right. Yes.
00:23:25
Tracey Halvorsen
major advances in our in our world, in our society, have come at a cost. And obviously, we're more aware of those costs right now and the damage that is being done.
00:23:37
Tracey Halvorsen
My hope is that this technology will help us conquer some of those things.
00:23:43
Mallory
Absolutely.
00:23:44
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, that that's my that's my hope, is that with this technology, we'll be able to make faster advances around clean energy, around food production, around you know, equity the world.
00:23:56
Tracey Halvorsen
So i kind of am putting my eggs in that hope basket for the technology because I don't see anything else really on the horizon that that might make as big of an impact.
00:23:56
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:24:10
Tracey Halvorsen
But, you know, I think that also like AI is is not going to solve our biggest problems all by itself. It's sure it's giving us massive computing power, massive technology,
00:24:19
Mallory
parents.
00:24:23
Tracey Halvorsen
you know, ability to analyze data and crunch numbers and and spot things that we couldn't normally spot much faster. there's a there's a great book called The Medici Effect, and it talks about how innovative ideas often come from very random, you know, experiences and ideas. One of the stories was about architects who were, they were trying to build affordable housing in like a sub-Sahara environment.
00:24:51
Tracey Halvorsen
And they needed to deal with the issue of heat and air conditioning, but they couldn't put, you know, for cost and environmental issue and all that, they couldn't deal with them. They couldn't manage to figure out how to put in air conditioning and keep this housing cool.
00:25:05
Tracey Halvorsen
So they brought in people who who were studying termite nests in that same environment. And through the the collaboration of all of these different people with different experiences and ideas, they came up with a fantastic solution based on how termites handle cooling in their, in their nests or whatever you call it, giant termite hive.
00:25:28
Tracey Halvorsen
And that, i always think but about that because i do think that that's where AI is not going to, it's never going to have a lived experience. It's never going to have its own story to kind of bring to the equation that And we need to use it as a partner, but we still need to rely on our own human experiences and and creativity, I think, to solve big problems.
00:25:50
Mallory
I have written that down, Medici effect. I need to go read that. the The idea of how to innovate is very top of mind right now for me as I'm getting on a plane tomorrow to fly to a conference and to give a keynote on innovation.
00:26:05
Tracey Halvorsen
Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Mallory
And so if anyone's listening that like is really interested in this topic, I would add to your book recommendation Keeley's 10 Types of Innovation.
00:26:17
Tracey Halvorsen
oh
00:26:17
Mallory
It is an excellent book.
00:26:19
Mallory
it's It is fairly short. It is an easy read, but Keeley breaks innovation down into 10 types. And actually your example illustrated his framework in that oftentimes the best ways to innovate are by taking ideas that seemingly have nothing to do with the challenge that you're solving and pulling it in, right?
00:26:42
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:26:43
Mallory
Like the termites in your example. Keeley gives us a framework of 10 different types of innovation so that you can actually put a little bit of process around this notion.
Innovation and Creativity Across Domains
00:26:56
Mallory
But you know like ah ah think about like when Dollar Shave Club started and you know this idea of a subscription payment model to razors, right? Razor is always a very different type of cost model in the stores, right? Dollar subscription comes out says, no, we're taking the subscription payment model and applying it to razors and people are like, you're crazy.
00:27:16
Mallory
And then Dollar Shave Club blows up and gets bought by Gillette and they're they are doing really well for themselves right now. So, right.
00:27:23
Tracey Halvorsen
no
00:27:23
Mallory
But it's like, it's that idea of it. So sorry to go off on that little tangent, but like I said, super top of mind. And I find this idea of how to innovate really interesting.
00:27:33
Mallory
And I think a lot of people want to innovate, but but either maybe don't trust themselves to step on their stage and do it. and And this, like, I always love a framework, right?
00:27:45
Mallory
I always love a framework because it puts some some organization to thoughts. And so that's that's a really good one that I've found.
00:27:49
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:27:52
Tracey Halvorsen
How do you how do you foster that in your own life? I mean, obviously you can't just sit at your computer and do your work and not be feeding your, yourself and your own creativity and your own ideas around innovation. And certainly the second part of that question is, you know, diversity in the team,
00:28:14
Tracey Halvorsen
that you might be collaborating with, but how do you do it for yourself? Because obviously, you know, i think there's a, there's a, a risk, right. That we might stop fueling the, uh, those, those engines for lack of a better idea.
00:28:32
Mallory
Well, that probably comes back to a love of learning, right?
00:28:36
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:28:36
Mallory
And and not allowing yourself to be stuck inside your own bubble, whatever that bubble is. So you can have a lot of bubbles, like it can be your marketing bubble, but then it's, you know, oh, well, I'm in tech, but then like I am operating in higher ed.
00:28:43
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:28:52
Mallory
At some point you have to look outside of those bubbles and that that goes back to that framework, right?
00:28:55
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:28:57
Mallory
It's the idea of pulling in these disparate ideas, right? and layering them together to create something viable, new, interesting. It's not just like a better mousetrap.
00:29:10
Mallory
It's oftentimes completely changing how you organize yourself and your work, how you connect with people, the experience that people are having. so that's, i'm I'm always trying to like, it sounds weird, but my brain, i'm like always trying to dissect things in that framework. Like, okay, like this is cool. Like, uh, let me dissect it now and break it up into its type. And okay, well, we don't really have a lot of types here. And like my framework says we need to layer multiple types.
00:29:37
Mallory
yeah So I'm just like always trying to break things into their own components when it comes to innovation.
00:29:41
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:29:42
Mallory
But I think there's, you know, there's a lot to be said for educating yourself outside of like what is just going on within the little bubbles that you might operate within.
00:29:50
Tracey Halvorsen
Totally.
00:29:51
Mallory
Hmm.
00:29:51
Tracey Halvorsen
i encourage my teams and my so and try to remind myself too. You know, luckily I have a ah ah creative practice that forces me to, you know, with the painting that I do,
00:30:04
Tracey Halvorsen
i'm I travel, I meet other people, I'm always faced with a blank canvas. you know I'm not in the in the work of like reproducing you know a certain look. it's always a journey of discovery.
00:30:16
Tracey Halvorsen
But also just you know who I talk to, the books I read, the experiences I open myself up to all feed that and So I always encourage people, you know, whether it's a hobby or your vacations or ah ah conversations you're having around the dinner table with your family, those can all be sparks for innovation.
00:30:35
Tracey Halvorsen
you kind of embrace it and don't don't just kind of go start going through the motions of life, which to me is, I see a lot of people doing that.
00:30:40
Mallory
yeah
00:30:42
Tracey Halvorsen
And it's it's and it's it's nuts not a great way to live, you know, trust me.
00:30:47
Mallory
yeah
00:30:47
Tracey Halvorsen
Like it's it might be comfortable and easy, but it's going to, It's going to leave you kind of wanting more, I think, down the road.
00:30:56
Mallory
Well, I mentioned like as a fitness instructor, right? Like I have to step out of a comfort zone every time that I put that microphone on.
00:30:59
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:31:04
Mallory
And I think that has had definitely a very, i mean, it's certainly had a positive impact in my life, right? Because it's its exercise and all these things. But like in my work life, I have often felt like that, you know, for me, teaching a fitness class is my creative side of my brain, right?
00:31:22
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:31:22
Mallory
So if you pick up a paintbrush, like, I put on a you know hype playlist on Spotify and tell people to tap back and do like you know elbow presses. But for me, that unlocks things in my brain that like I often felt when I went back to my desk after coming from teaching a class.
00:31:42
Mallory
like I was opening my brain up.
00:31:44
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:31:45
Mallory
in different ways. And music has always done that for me.
00:31:49
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:31:49
Mallory
But there's just something about like the, you know, it's it's it's another cliff that you're just jumping off of every every time you start a class because who knows what's about to come out of your mouth as much as you might prepare.
00:32:03
Mallory
You know, like it's, anything can happen. Anything can happen.
00:32:06
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:32:07
Mallory
So it's been great training. and
00:32:10
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I mean, it' I love that. That's great. I, um, I want to know what your Spotify playlists are for you.
00:32:15
Mallory
Ooh, Mallory Wilsey, you can just look me up and you're going to get all sorts of K-pop, EDM, rap. Okay.
00:32:23
Tracey Halvorsen
It's great.
00:32:23
Mallory
edm
00:32:24
Tracey Halvorsen
All right. All right.
00:32:25
Mallory
rap
Music, Motivation, and Innovation Challenges
00:32:27
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I mean, music is, is such a great motivator and and inspirational sort of, space And I love, you know, music is one of the only art forms that you experience in time.
00:32:42
Tracey Halvorsen
And I, and I just, I love the way I i think it changes the way I think about time and experience time such a profound way. So I love all kinds of music, but I especially love that you have to experience it in time.
00:32:54
Mallory
Yeah.
00:32:55
Tracey Halvorsen
All right. That's a, we won't go down that rabbit hole, but yeah.
00:32:59
Mallory
A tangent for another day.
00:33:00
Mallory
Yeah.
00:33:01
Tracey Halvorsen
That's another escape velocity. Back to you know our shared kind of background working in higher ed. right and Higher ed is notoriously slow to innovate, you even when they say they they want to. and Right now, they need to.
00:33:18
Tracey Halvorsen
and There are so many headwinds facing that industry from all different directions. what's What's your advice to people who are working in higher ed, especially in like the marketing or enrollment side where the the bucks really stop literally, who are facing all these headwinds, know they need to innovate and take a lot of risks, but they're in this environment where it's so traditional, so conservative, so slow to adopt.
00:33:44
Mallory
Yeah.
00:33:47
Tracey Halvorsen
where have you you know Do you have advice for people in those teams?
00:33:52
Tracey Halvorsen
Or have you seen some successes? Yep.
00:33:55
Mallory
Yeah. It is really hard, right? it is It is such a challenging time right now. And I think we're you know we're in an industry that's shrinking, not growing. More schools are closing their doors every day than new ones are opening.
00:34:09
Mallory
And i think we have to recognize that is the moment we are living in.
00:34:10
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:34:13
Mallory
10 years from now, i you know If a person listening right now works for a college or university 10 years from now, that college or university might no longer exist.
00:34:25
Mallory
And there's a lot of reasons for that, and some of them are good reasons. like The market does have to adjust to the demand. And we are in a different place than we were 10, 15, or 20 years ago with different demographics.
00:34:33
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:34:41
Mallory
But I think i think that... If I'm, if I am advising, like if I'm speaking directly to somebody who is leading a Marcom team at a college or university, and you know, 10 years from now, your school might not exist.
00:34:58
Mallory
Then, then what are we waiting for? If time was the challenge for AI, time is now the challenge for the future of this industry. And, Like you said, you know taking risk might be challenging because of the the conservative environment you might be in or the the willingness to innovate around you, but there's got to be little ways that you can find it in your day-to-day.
00:35:26
Mallory
think it's when you can layer in all these little wins on top of each other, that's where you can start to find proof points. That's where you can start to build support around you and start to build some consensus that trying something new and different is going to be okay. And you don't have to overhaul the biggest...
00:35:48
Mallory
piece of your communication on day one, right? Like find those little things that maybe you can change. Maybe you ask for forgiveness, not permission.
00:35:59
Mallory
I've kind of always done that in my career, whether that's right or wrong. I don't know, Tracy, but I'm just like, I'm a forgiveness gal.
00:36:03
Tracey Halvorsen
I think that's right.
00:36:04
Mallory
So like, let me find the five little things that like maybe no one will even notice if I just aren like start just start tweeting
00:36:06
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:36:10
Tracey Halvorsen
That's right.
00:36:12
Mallory
in it here, there. And, you know, I'll ask for forgiveness, but the reality is i know I'm going to make the changes and I'm going to prove to you why they were good changes. And then you're going to thank me. And then I'm going to go apply them to the next five things. Right. I think it comes back down to risk. We just got to not be afraid of it.
00:36:29
Mallory
Have the opinion, take the risk and, I don't know, just do it. Like a too simple though.
00:36:33
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, I know. nike
00:36:35
Mallory
Is it in this Nike too simple here?
00:36:39
Tracey Halvorsen
Well, i mean, I don't think it's too simple, but I think what you know where and how to start. Because right now the headwinds are for higher ed in particular, and if you're talking about marketing and communications or just brand, these are headwinds that are showing up when there are still a lot of other headwinds.
00:36:58
Tracey Halvorsen
that
Authenticity and Engagement in Higher Education
00:36:59
Tracey Halvorsen
started showing up when social media really became, you know, all the, all the channels started fragmenting and the distrust of, of Gen Z around any of the official marketing and language.
00:37:01
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:37:11
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, it's like the, I think today's audience, especially if they're high school kids, you know, the, the future potential students at your school, they are not probably,
00:37:26
Tracey Halvorsen
paying attention to the things that you're spending the majority of your time and money putting out there.
00:37:31
Mallory
Yeah.
00:37:32
Tracey Halvorsen
And so I think that it's really hard for people because it requires a lot of letting go of control. if you if you really want to get the authenticity and the stories out there in the places where kids are looking for it and will believe it, you have to let go of some of this institutional control that is so baked into higher ed.
00:37:53
Tracey Halvorsen
And so I see a lot of fear and apprehension around that.
00:37:53
Mallory
Yeah.
00:37:57
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, it's like you got to you got to find your ambassadors and let them take the wheel and tell the stories good, bad and ugly. Let's stop pretending like there's some veneer that people are buying.
00:38:11
Tracey Halvorsen
They're not buying it anymore.
00:38:12
Mallory
Yeah.
00:38:13
Tracey Halvorsen
And they're not buying the. the bullshit. you know There's too much at stake.
00:38:16
Mallory
yeah
00:38:19
Tracey Halvorsen
There's too much skepticism. And so I think that schools that are trying to ride on that, like, we'll just blend in and we'll we'll say a couple of good things. When you're asking for this kind of commitment, I just think it's it's a losing strategy.
00:38:33
Mallory
yeah Yeah. 2009, Mallory, agreed with you too. Like, to so does 2025, Mallory, but 2009, Mallory, agreed with you.
00:38:37
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I know. Yeah.
00:38:41
Mallory
And the way that I was able to you know, the the challenge of, you know, getting the institution comfortable – with letting those ambassadors kind of have a bigger voice.
00:38:55
Mallory
It was actually very simple. I reminded them that on tours, we do not trail our tour guides. And whether we're sending them out with one family or 50 families, we actually don't know what they're saying.
00:39:11
Mallory
when they're out walking around that campus. And if you just let my digital ambassadors write a blog post or tweet or post on, you know, in 2025 now it might be Instagram or TikTok or Reddit or who knows, but back then it was it was blogs and Twitter and if and YouTube.
00:39:28
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:39:30
Mallory
And like, you know, like at least you can see what they're saying. Because the second they walk out the door from the Welcome Center, you don't know what they're saying. Which one would you rather?
00:39:39
Tracey Halvorsen
it. Yeah.
00:39:40
Mallory
Because I'd rather know what they're saying and help them be able to shape their authentic story than, you know, just, you know, like pray that the training I gave them before they left on that tour, like, stuck.
00:39:56
Mallory
And we know, like we want to layer some AI back into this, we know that the sources AI is most pulling from are Wikipedia, Reddit, and YouTube, top three sources.
00:40:07
Tracey Halvorsen
but yeah yeah yeah
00:40:11
Mallory
send your digital ambassadors out onto Reddit, maybe Wikipedia, but like certainly Reddit and YouTube and have them start creating content there because increasingly we know that prospective students are starting their journeys with AI recommendations, whether they want to or not, because all they have to do is Google and they have just started their journey with an AI recommendation taking over the top two thirds of that screen.
00:40:35
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:40:36
Mallory
So all to say, right, maybe this is the one thing that like that Marcom leader can just kind of slide in there because you can start to see how the the impact is going to like get exponentially bigger and bigger and bigger now that AI is is pulling from these sources.
00:40:53
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that does require, you know, letting go of control.
00:40:57
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:40:58
Tracey Halvorsen
But what I always say is, well, while you're not out there empowering your ambassadors, the people who are excited to talk about this place and their experiences there, and who want to engage with the prospective students in like a human one-on-one way, I mean, those prospective students want to see be seen.
00:41:16
Mallory
Yes.
00:41:17
Tracey Halvorsen
you know They don't want to be fed a bunch of polished marketing materials.
00:41:17
Mallory
Yeah.
00:41:21
Tracey Halvorsen
They want to feel seen too. So if you're not doing any of that, trust me, the the naysayers are out there and you you can't control that.
00:41:27
Mallory
yeah Yeah.
00:41:31
Tracey Halvorsen
So at least be putting out the positive experiences and... and thoughts and you know get get away from... and then sure, like if they end up at your website, make it a really great experience.
00:41:42
Tracey Halvorsen
you know Make it feel like no other
00:41:43
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:41:45
Tracey Halvorsen
I think we so there's so much fragmentation. It's like, where do we put the facts and the things that people need versus these feelings, these gut instincts, these senses of this is a good place for me and my family can afford it or and i can get the aid I need or
00:42:01
Mallory
Yeah.
00:42:03
Tracey Halvorsen
And, you know, I'm going to be in a community that feels right for me and get the education I want and maybe the job I want. It's just, I think it's, it's so complicated, but it's so important too.
00:42:16
Mallory
yeah
00:42:16
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, it's such an important place. And I just hope that enough good ones can survive and and keep fostering this lifelong learning and education that we need in our, you know, in our
00:42:30
Mallory
Yeah.
00:42:31
Tracey Halvorsen
in our people.
00:42:32
Mallory
and it's not And it's not just the 17-year-olds graduating from high school. Like the number of adults that have some college but no degree is a much larger pool to pull
00:42:43
Mallory
ah You know, adults returning to education at the undergrad level is significant. And, you know, so an institution that maybe be historically served a more traditional undergrad population is if we're not already starting to think about the other populations that we can start serving to overcome some of the maybe financial challenges that are alongside this demographic cliff that we are sitting on, right? Like the time's today. If we haven't started thinking about it, the time is today to start thinking about it.
00:43:15
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. Yeah. And I agree to it. You know if this can be from the top down even better, because then you've got leadership that's behind this and is, is empowering their teams to take this stuff and run with it and not be afraid of, you know, and not be completely limited and in what they can do, but it's tough.
00:43:23
Mallory
Right. Yeah.
00:43:31
Mallory
here
00:43:35
Mallory
Yeah.
00:43:36
Tracey Halvorsen
It takes, it takes quite a leader these days, I think in higher ed.
00:43:39
Mallory
Yeah. And it's a full organizational challenge, not just a Marcom one, of course.
00:43:42
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:43:43
Mallory
right and That goes without saying.
00:43:44
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:45
Mallory
Yeah.
Embracing Opportunities and Uncertainty
00:43:47
Tracey Halvorsen
What else would you, if you could go back and talk to younger Mallory, what else would you advise her on or or remind her about?
00:43:51
Mallory
Hmm.
00:43:58
Mallory
You know, I think...
00:44:01
Mallory
I think I would remind me to not be afraid to say yes to things that seemingly come from nowhere.
00:44:11
Mallory
You know, like just land in your lap. Say yes to the things of that land in your lap, whether that's an opportunity to network with somebody that, you know, like we go to a conference, we walk into the lunchroom, And we look around and everybody looks the same.
00:44:26
Mallory
Our eyes are wide and we're like, oh crap, where are the people I know? Because now I'm in a lunchroom and i feel like I'm in high school again and I got to go find a table of people I know.
00:44:31
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:44:35
Mallory
No. Go sit down at the table full of people you don't know because that's the person that you might need to meet that day that's going to completely change your life, right? Take –
00:44:44
Tracey Halvorsen
no
00:44:45
Mallory
do the thing that feels uncomfortable and just say yes when an opportunity lands in your lap because you just never know where it's going to go.
00:44:55
Mallory
And as I think back and you know I know that there's been times I've taken that advice and times I've regretted not taking it, but I've never regretted doing it.
00:44:55
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:45:05
Mallory
right And so there it is.
00:45:06
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great advice. It's great advice for anyone. um It's advice I definitely have lived by when things have felt the most terrifying in terms of like what's coming next.
00:45:22
Tracey Halvorsen
I've just, so you can't, can't worry about that, but there will be no next if you don't say yes to the universe. And that's kind of how I phrase it.
00:45:27
Mallory
Yeah.
00:45:28
Tracey Halvorsen
It's just whatever the universe decides to present, because it will, if you're looking, if you go out or you engage with the world, it's going to present these things, these gifts, and you won't know if you don't say yes.
00:45:43
Tracey Halvorsen
And if I think about most of the good, great things in my life along the journey did come from saying yes. And nothing good ever came from sticking my head in the sand and, and, and hoping that, you know, nothing would change and everything would just be okay.
00:45:53
Mallory
yeah
00:45:56
Mallory
And saying no.
00:46:01
Tracey Halvorsen
And,
00:46:01
Mallory
yeah And it's okay if you've got like the thing that like opens it up for you. Like for me, it's the podcast mic, right? I am able to go meet people at a much higher rate and I feel more comfortable doing it when I'm making that introduction through a podcast interview.
00:46:21
Mallory
I have a good friend in the industry like –
00:46:22
Tracey Halvorsen
hu
00:46:24
Mallory
His podcast mic is his camera. Like when he can go somewhere and start taking photos of people, that opens the conversation up, right? So maybe to like go back to some of the things we were talking about earlier, like it's it's maybe finding what that thing is that you love doing that you can bring with you. And, you know, so I can't bring a spin bike, unfortunately, on the airplane,
00:46:45
Mallory
But I can bring my podcast mic, right? And if that's what allows me to walk into that room, feeling a little more confident, feeling like I've got a way to start a conversation, well, now I've figured that out for myself and I'm going to have 20 times more conversations as a result than I would have otherwise.
00:47:01
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, totally. i you know the the One of the most fun things I have done and my career and life is to start this podcast for exactly the reasons that you said.
00:47:12
Tracey Halvorsen
it gives
Networking and Job Application Strategies
00:47:13
Tracey Halvorsen
me a reason to reach out to people that I'm just curious about and that I think,
00:47:16
Mallory
Yeah.
00:47:18
Tracey Halvorsen
we're going have a good conversation. There might be brand new ideas that come out of this conversation or just in the exchange of the conversation that might be helpful or interesting or useful to someone else. I don't know. i don't have a set plan or framework.
00:47:31
Tracey Halvorsen
there's no agenda. And that's what I love about it. because you just never know where the conversation is going to go. And i think it does also go back to curiosity, right?
00:47:44
Tracey Halvorsen
I think we can get so insecure, always thinking about ourselves. What are other people thinking about us? And you know, nobody's thinking about us, uh, except ourselves.
00:47:54
Tracey Halvorsen
ninety percent of the top
00:47:54
Mallory
Yeah. Sorry to say it, but yeah.
00:47:57
Mallory
Yeah.
00:47:57
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah so Number one, remember that you you are the one that's spending all the time. And number two, you know, It's a gift to be curious about other people.
00:48:09
Mallory
yeah
00:48:10
Tracey Halvorsen
You know, it's and it's it's always, hate it when i when I do reach out to people and they're like, oh, I don't think I'd have anything interesting to share. I'm like, are you kidding me?
00:48:20
Tracey Halvorsen
Everyone has something interesting to share. You know, everyone does. And it's just like, that's the art of conversation.
00:48:25
Mallory
Yeah. Mm-mm.
00:48:27
Tracey Halvorsen
That's that's why we talk. our human is that connection that we all want and, and it's with other humans and we're not built to do this by ourselves. So uh, I love that. I hope that anyone listening really takes that to heart and starts their own podcast or just starts going out there and having new experiences and then writing about them or sharing, painting, exercising about it, whatever, like get out there and just be curious and don't wait.
00:48:57
Tracey Halvorsen
don't wait, don't be scared. What's the worst that can happen?
00:49:01
Mallory
That's it. I do have to remind myself of that all the time.
00:49:02
Tracey Halvorsen
Right?
00:49:04
Mallory
You know, i know when when someone listens to a podcast like an iPhone, it's like, oh, they've got it all figured out. Look, I don't take my own advice all the time. You know, like we are all human. We all make mistakes. We are all just trying our best every single day.
00:49:19
Mallory
i But like nothing bad has ever come of just giving it a go. I've certainly regretted it far less than the opposite.
00:49:31
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. I mean, i can't, I, I, we will never know, right. We can't go back in time and run the parallel universe track and see how it could have gone if we hadn't run.
00:49:41
Mallory
Loki Tracy is out there somewhere.
00:49:42
Tracey Halvorsen
yes She is probably. I know. I think about all the different, I mean, every decision you make, right. Is there a split and is there like an alternate you living the other life?
00:49:52
Mallory
who
00:49:55
Tracey Halvorsen
One thing i would love to ask you about, right. Just, you know A lot of people might be listening to this or reading it about it and and and watching and saying, well, that's great. you know These are two confident women who've gone out there and had success. Easy for them to say.
00:50:11
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
00:50:12
Tracey Halvorsen
When I think there are so many people, right, that are coming into their careers, their or they've or they've been laid off. I mean, the job market is like a bloodbath right now, and there's a ton of people that are just feeling like, what's what's my worth? What's my value? Where do I fit?
00:50:27
Tracey Halvorsen
What do I do next? How do I get on people's radars? And I just think you know you have sat in a position where people have either gotten on your radars or not. And I'm in a position now where I'm hiring and you know having to make decisions about the team.
00:50:41
Tracey Halvorsen
And so i have I have thoughts on that that I think might be valuable for people listening, but I'd love to hear what you have to say about that.
00:50:50
Mallory
From both perspectives, from maybe the person who is trying to put themselves out there more, send the email. Actually, that that happened to me a couple weeks ago.
00:51:00
Mallory
got an the email out of the blue from someone I tangentially knew from the industry who said she was talking to Jamie Hunt recently.
00:51:09
Mallory
And Jamie's advice to her was just send the darn email. Like, like Just do it.
00:51:09
Tracey Halvorsen
huh
00:51:15
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:51:16
Mallory
And so she did. And then we had an incredible conversation and realized we have all of these things, right, and comment, blah, bla And now she is so on my radar. And she's not job hunting right now. She's very happy in her job and we're talking. She's in events and we're going back and forth.
00:51:30
Mallory
But like, she's like top 10 on my radar right now, right? Because she just sent the email. And so that helped us create this incredible relationship.
00:51:35
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:51:39
Mallory
And now our two, you know, our two worlds can overlap and and the people in my network and the people in her network, like, wow. Who knows? But 10 years from now, I feel like this is really going to matter.
00:51:49
Mallory
And we're we're going to be able to help each other in some really significant way. I can like just feel the universe is telling me that.
00:51:53
Tracey Halvorsen
Mm-hmm.
00:51:56
Mallory
So from that side of the thing, you know, like I really think networking does matter, right? And I think that especially if you're in the job hunt, like spending some time being rebuilding your network and and reconnecting with your network and leaning on your network.
00:52:13
Mallory
It comes back to like, we are human and we are people and and we want to connect with each other. And I think that that's time really valuably spent because you you never know how right like She certainly didn't know I was going to be on a podcast two weeks later talking about her, but here we are.
00:52:29
Mallory
right
00:52:29
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:52:29
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:52:29
Mallory
So there you go. You never know.
00:52:31
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:52:34
Mallory
As someone who has i built teams and had to sift through hundreds of applications for a single role, how do you stand out there?
00:52:46
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:52:46
Mallory
you know I think like a very tactical piece of advice is... do the research. And I hope that is somewhat obvious to listeners. But for me, that means understanding the job description and the key points in it. Oh, by the way, AI can help you with that.
00:53:03
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:04
Mallory
Understanding what the organization stands for, what are their recent wins going on social, seeing what it is they're talking about. What is the content that this organization is choosing to put on its website, homepage, whatever it might be?
00:53:18
Tracey Halvorsen
now
00:53:18
Mallory
Oh, by the way, AI can help you with that too.
00:53:20
Mallory
And then thinking about your own resume and your experiences and you know making sure you're really deeply connecting, whether you know whether you're writing the cover letter writing recrafting your resume a little bit, right?
00:53:35
Mallory
Like I'm really a big fan of not just sending one CV out and like spraying it to all the companies, but actually intentionally crafting your bullet points so that it aligns to the role that you're looking to get.
00:53:41
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:53:48
Mallory
Like, of course, you don't want to lie by any means, right? But like reframing things so that you are putting it into the words that the organization is using, because that is a signal of what matters to them.
00:54:00
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
00:54:04
Mallory
It takes a little more time to do that, but it really does. I've had to go through all these resumes and and you know application layers, et cetera. like it does like stand out. Like it really does help.
00:54:19
Mallory
especially if you don't know somebody at that organization, right? If you can't lean on your network to help you get some sort of introduction, I, I find the more you can tailor the better.
00:54:32
Tracey Halvorsen
Totally. And it's, you know, other I think it's so different, right? If you're just coming into the workforce and you're looking for that first job, but i think that's really tough. because you might not have a lot of angle. So again, wherever you can really customize it and show that you were thoughtful and you were like, I think this, I think you're looking for me. And so let me, let me tell you why I think you're looking for me. Here's where, why I think I'm going to really excel at this position and then be able to grow in your organization.
00:55:02
Tracey Halvorsen
Here's where I, I think I can contribute value now. Here's where I think that could grow into and don't kind of just play it safe. We're not in a situation where people are just trying to align checkboxes for a job.
00:55:17
Tracey Halvorsen
you know If anything, that is that is the work that AI is going to be taking. I think people are looking for someone who can add real value, who does you know align with the values of the of the company and the the person that's, you know, that's applying.
00:55:35
Tracey Halvorsen
But I've seen some great success with candidates who, you know, there might not have even been a position for their skillset, but they knew that they were the right person for us.
00:55:41
Mallory
Wow.
00:55:46
Mallory
Yes.
00:55:58
Tracey Halvorsen
And, those Those checkbox kind of jobs, I don't think those exist much anymore. know.
00:56:07
Mallory
Well, if you are lucky enough to be applying for a role that includes communications or creativity, I think you nailed it.
00:56:07
Tracey Halvorsen
and Yeah.
00:56:15
Mallory
Like this is your stage to create.
00:56:17
Tracey Halvorsen
Your audition.
00:56:19
Mallory
It's your audition. Put the mic in front of your mouth like and showcase that creativity.
00:56:22
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
00:56:24
Mallory
i had I hired a a marketing director a few years ago. Not because he sent a video in alongside his application, but like, you he sent a video in alongside his application.
00:56:36
Mallory
And guess what? Like through that video, he was able to actually convince me that we needed to be doing more with video and he was proving it in the whole exchange. Like that was not lost on me.
00:56:48
Mallory
right? And and he wound up being the best person for the job for a lot of different reasons.
00:56:49
Tracey Halvorsen
Right.
00:56:55
Tracey Halvorsen
no
00:56:55
Mallory
But as somebody who I didn't know going into the process and was sifting through hundreds of applications, wow, he shot up to the top real fast because he put that extra effort in and helped to me understand how you know this other medium was really going to matter in this role that he was hoping to get hired for.
00:57:16
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah, it's, it's not, this is not complicated, right? And I, and I'll, I'll share it with with everyone listening. Again, one of the things I always ask who are interviewing for any job, whether it's more on the tactical side, or more on the creative side, like to me, creativity is is a key.
00:57:34
Tracey Halvorsen
talent that you've got to have, curiosity, you know, the ability to take ownership over things. And so I ask people, you know, what do you, what inspires you outside of work? What do you read? What do you look at? What do you do?
00:57:46
Tracey Halvorsen
what are you curious about? And I hate to say it, but there are a lot of times where people are like, oh, I don't really, i don't know, you know?
00:57:58
Tracey Halvorsen
and I'm like, wow, well, okay. I, you know, you're not someone that I want to bring into my very small company that wants to tap into everybody's creativity and, and curiosity.
00:58:06
Mallory
Yeah.
00:58:11
Tracey Halvorsen
and ability to innovate. And I also ask people now too, what are you most excited about when it comes to technology or AI? How are you using these tools? Even if it's outside of work, how are you experimenting yourself? How are you exploring? What are you reading about?
00:58:27
Tracey Halvorsen
And if I see, you know, or hear crickets in that kind of a question, it's another red flag for me that this is not someone that I want to bring into again, you know, a very small team, but,
00:58:33
Mallory
yeah
00:58:39
Tracey Halvorsen
I want people that are like, oh this and that, and show me the way you think, show me that creative thought matters to you, uh, to take the Morris
00:58:45
Mallory
yeah
00:58:46
Mallory
The hunger for knowledge. It's full circle.
00:58:47
Tracey Halvorsen
but know hunger for home yeah,
00:58:50
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah. It's show it. that's what people, I think that's where I think people are looking and, So if if you're not doing that actively, number one, I think do it because otherwise it's like, you're living half a life.
00:59:05
Tracey Halvorsen
And there's always time. There's always time to just bring in a little bit of extra knowledge. I know some people are near not nearly as fortunate or privileged to be able to to carve out that time or have access to some of these things.
00:59:18
Tracey Halvorsen
So I want to just express my understanding of that too.
00:59:22
Mallory
yeah yeah.
00:59:22
Tracey Halvorsen
But there are there are ways to bring this into your life, even in the smallest, most minor ways that I think are are beneficial for for all aspects of life, including the job search.
00:59:33
Mallory
here
00:59:36
Tracey Halvorsen
or the job searches. I mean, again, we're talking about a ah very privileged layer of, of employment and, you know, I appreciate that very much.
00:59:43
Mallory
yeah
00:59:45
Tracey Halvorsen
And I try to remind myself of to be appreciative of the work I get to do all the time, all the time.
00:59:53
Mallory
Yeah.
00:59:56
Tracey Halvorsen
Mallory, any closing thoughts, ideas, messages you want to get out there to the listeners?
01:00:04
Mallory
Gosh, we've covered so much. Uh, and i can't believe it.
01:00:06
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
01:00:09
Mallory
We've covered so much ground. you know, I think that At the end of the day, being sometimes the only person in the room that feels like you're different or feels like you're trying something new, like i and I do understand how hard that is because I have lived that. And...
01:00:29
Tracey Halvorsen
yeah
01:00:30
Mallory
and you know, and and know that if you are that person, like you actually aren't alone because there are a lot of people like you. They're just in different rooms currently, but you you and you might have to go find them, but but you aren't alone. And so it comes back to community. It comes back to always having that hunger for knowledge and learning, but just try the thing, right? I hope...
01:00:57
Mallory
That when somebody stops listening to this episode, that if nothing else, they have been inspired to just try something that that maybe they were afraid to have tried an hour ago and and see what happens.
01:01:10
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
01:01:13
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
01:01:13
Mallory
And then let us know.
01:01:13
Tracey Halvorsen
i Right.
01:01:15
Mallory
then come find us and let us know.
01:01:17
Tracey Halvorsen
Right. And also anybody listening, you know, I know Mallory Wood, I would love to hear what, how do you keep these sparks, you know, lighting in your lives or your careers from, you know, I mean, i'm i'm such a book.
01:01:30
Tracey Halvorsen
I have like a library. i mean, I buy them faster than I can read them. But the knowledge we can we can, the inspiration and knowledge we can gain from the world is is so abundant.
01:01:41
Tracey Halvorsen
There's all you have to, you have to have that curiosity though. So whether it's, you know, going and grabbing a book that we talked about, or i list all the the resources that might come up on any podcast on helloadeo.com.
01:01:54
Tracey Halvorsen
There's a section about the podcast and every episode people mention things. And so I always always share those. and just start digging in. And if you've got some like, wow, this is the thing, I go back to this resource to keep my fire burning and keep learning and keep growing, let us know. Because I think that the more we can share that with each other, the better.
01:02:16
Tracey Halvorsen
in the meantime, you know, get out there, just do it. Don't be scared. Even the people who you know, it's not easy for anybody. Uh, I'm all, every time I look at a, pick up a brush and get to a blank canvas, I will, I will share.
01:02:31
Tracey Halvorsen
i always run through my head. Oh, I, am I still able to paint? I mean, it's ridiculous. You know, every time I'm about to publish up a blog post or get up on a stage to give a talk, I think all the All the negative thoughts go through. All the urges to vomit happen. um um It's not that I'm scared, but I'm definitely nervous all the time.
01:02:50
Mallory
Yeah.
01:02:51
Tracey Halvorsen
I think if you're not, it's because you're not actually trying something that you care about.
01:02:55
Mallory
Mm-hmm.
01:02:56
Tracey Halvorsen
So just embrace that it's that.
01:02:56
Mallory
Completely agree.
01:02:59
Tracey Halvorsen
That's why it matters because it's not going to feel comfortable. That's the good part. So just lean in on that. Call it something else. Instead of saying, like, I'm about to you know pass out or throw up, just say, like, oh, I'm really excited right now.
01:03:12
Mallory
i must care so much.
01:03:12
Tracey Halvorsen
but This was really, yeah, really awesome.
01:03:14
Mallory
about to pass out or throw up. No.
01:03:18
Tracey Halvorsen
It might kill me.
01:03:22
Tracey Halvorsen
Oh, I mean, at the end of the day, we're all just we're all just people. It's beautiful, you know, but not nobody's perfect. Nobody wants that.
01:03:30
Mallory
No.
01:03:31
Tracey Halvorsen
No, and nobody believes it anyway. So on that note, thank you so much. It was a great conversation.
01:03:37
Mallory
Thanks, Tracy.
01:03:38
Tracey Halvorsen
i'm so excited. I hope your keynote goes great. Safe travels tomorrow. I hope you'll be sharing about what you talk about and just anybody that has an opportunity to work with you, they're they're lucky and they're digging into the right places. So ah ah encourage them all to reach out to you.
01:03:54
Mallory
Thanks.
01:03:55
Tracey Halvorsen
and yeah.
01:03:55
Mallory
Yeah. You can find me on LinkedIn.
01:03:57
Tracey Halvorsen
Continue on the journey. I'll be sharing links to all the places you can find Mallory. But in the meantime, keep having fun and good for you being on this great adventure. Congratulations on your past successes. And mainly I just hope it's super rewarding going forward.
01:04:11
Mallory
Thanks, Tracy. It was really great to be on this side of a podcast and I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and getting a chance to reconnect with you.
01:04:14
Tracey Halvorsen
Yeah.
01:04:19
Mallory
So I appreciate it.
01:04:20
Tracey Halvorsen
Me too. All right. Well, let's do it again sometime soon.
01:04:24
Mallory
All right. all right
01:04:25
Tracey Halvorsen
All right.