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Tracy Gosson - Stage Four and Forward
20 Plays18 days ago
Before she was a stage 4 ovarian cancer survivor, Tracy Gosson was already a force.
As the founding executive director of Live Baltimore, Tracy helped rebrand city living and sparked a movement to bring people back into Baltimore neighborhoods. She later launched Sagesse, Inc., a boutique consultancy that’s helped cities and developers across the country reimagine how place, story, and investment intersect.
Then, in 2019, everything stopped. Tracy was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer—and suddenly, the only thing on the agenda was survival.
In this deeply personal episode of Escape Velocity, Tracy shares what it took to get through an aggressive, experimental treatment—and what she learned about herself, her business, and her boundaries in the process.
We talk about:
• Reinventing your business after reinventing yourself
• Getting clear on what (and who) is worth your time
• The hard-won wisdom that only shows up after everything falls apart
This is a story about velocity, clarity, and real courage—the kind that only shows up when your life depends on it.
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Transcript
Introducing Tracy Gossin and Her Work
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome everybody. This is another episode of Escape Velocity. And today I am talking with Tracy Gossin, who is the founder Seges, which is a brand and marketing agency. She's been doing this work for a long time. i would say her specialty has always been in places.
00:00:25
Speaker
Branding and marketing places when works with a lot of nonprofits, which we can dive into that and the state of that in this
Personal Journey Through Cancer
00:00:33
Speaker
conversation. But I also want to mention that Tracy has experienced.
00:00:38
Speaker
a battle, an experience with cancer. Getting cancer is something that you don't necessarily choose. No, you don't. And so I want to talk about that. Welcome to the podcast, Tracy. We've known each other for a long time.
00:00:51
Speaker
We've worked similar orders. Yeah, you used to be neighbor and I didn't even know it. We were neighbors. i will never forget. I think you commented on when I wrote that podcast or I wrote that blog, like 11 years ago, Baltimore City, you're breaking my heart and that went viral. And I recall reading some comments where you were like, well, I kind of agree with her, but I would never commit professional suicide like this. I just, I remember direct messaging you because I think when you became familiar with you back in the, when Twitter was a good place yeah days and that was, I was like, oh my gosh, they're like right around
Viral Blog and Public Impact
00:01:24
Speaker
the corner from me. What the hell am I doing over there? And I had my business in my row house too.
00:01:29
Speaker
And you wrote that and know that people were coming after you, particularly some people at the city. Yeah. I think I sent you some direct messages like, don't to be all potty mouth here, but like F them, don't worry about They don't have the power that they think that they do. You'd say and do whatever you want. And they may not like it, but they need to get to work if they don't like it.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. a friend A good friend of mine, I remember texted me too. And he said, are you in a fight with the mayor? ah It's like, oh my God, this blew up. Well, because you said something that a lot of people were saying privately and still today privately. They don't want to get in the crosshairs of whatever. And now it's way more charged around all sorts of stuff just beyond politics. Well, that that's a really interesting topic, right?
00:02:16
Speaker
Just saying just saying what you think and what you feel without fear. of being of the mob coming after you. From many, many different sources, that mob can come for you.
00:02:29
Speaker
And you can get labeled and pigeonholed and attacked and silenced or have your your career ruined. Yeah, ostracized, cut off from resources and access. Absolutely, yep.
00:02:42
Speaker
And i just, I don't like living in that place of fear in my life. And so I will continue to try to say what, i think, and what I feel, and you're welcome to disagree with me.
00:02:54
Speaker
And um that note- Isn't that how we learn and grow? i have a conviction about something because this is my learned experience. This is what I've learned along the way. This is what I've read. And I want to be challenged by you. Cause I always say to people like, boo, you're so comp confrontational. that They would say to me, I'm like, I'm not confrontational.
00:03:12
Speaker
Like, this is where I stand. Like come back and push back at me because don't, maybe you'll change my perspective. I want to learn something. and so that's not how politics is now. But I always said you should have the same convictions about your position that I do. You should stand that firmly. So convince me otherwise I'm here.
00:03:31
Speaker
I'm a big believer in changing your mind is okay. This world is full of a lot of different people and experiences and points of view and perspectives that are all valid, at least in the sense that they have a right to to share them and share their thinking and their perspective. And it's only through the exchange of those things that we can grow and get better and make and change things for the better.
00:03:59
Speaker
Otherwise, what will happen is people will just take advantage of the silence and change things for the worse.
Baltimore and Sustainable Business
00:04:04
Speaker
Whoever is the has the most power and is the loudest will use that to bully their way into more of that, in my opinion.
00:04:12
Speaker
Really? Have I seen that happen somewhere? i don't know. No, I don't see that happening anywhere. I'm just making that I would have board members come to me and like, but you might want to dial that back. Live Baltimore was like my biggest entree into Baltimore City.
00:04:29
Speaker
I worked in film and television before that, right? And so I bought a house in the city. I renovated it myself. And I was like, Schmoke was mayor. Kurt Schmoke was mayor. This is the late 90s. And I was like,
00:04:41
Speaker
but I, what is going on here? Like, why don't people want to live on the water? Like, this is kind of beautiful here. Why is it so cheap? What, what's going on? is there something I don't know? Cause I wasn't from Baltimore.
00:04:52
Speaker
Is it like dead bodies all over the heart? Like, what is the issue? And then you realize it's just like, oh, is the former mayor O'Malley used to say is the city has an issue of pathological modesty.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I thought, Well, we just need to talk about it more positively and talk about these neighborhoods. And when that organization was launching and I interviewed for it, and I had a job, I used to edit TV commercials. Okay, producers video on television. he That was my career.
00:05:19
Speaker
I didn't do TV commercials. And I'm interviewing for this job. I'm like, I didn't even know what a nonprofit was. Right. So they're asking me all this question that came. I had my notes. I was like, Hey, here's what the mayor should do.
00:05:29
Speaker
He should do this and this, and they should stop doing this. And everyone in the interview was like, what, what? Like I wrote a 10 point list. Like these are all the things that you should be doing. yeah Okay.
00:05:40
Speaker
And so then when I got called back for the third interview, and I'm so irritated by the Rouses because I was like, who just gets called for their third interview? Like, just, is you going to hire somebody? Because I just didn't come with all this knowledge about how this whole system worked and all that.
00:05:56
Speaker
no And I'll never forget this gentleman, and his name was Charles Marker, yeah African-American businessman. He's passed now, but it was him and the executive director Sharakoshana because it was at CPHA, Citizens Planning and Housing.
00:06:08
Speaker
And he said, look, he goes, we really liked, we just love everything. Like your attitude, what's going on, the work that you've done. He's like, you just need to like, just dial it down just a notch or two. He's like, you'll do great. He's like, you're going to have to pull back a little bit. And I was like, okay. I'm like, I don't even know what that means, but okay. And they hired me and I was like, okay.
00:06:31
Speaker
what do I do? And Cheryl was like, okay, well you have this much amount of money to pay you. And then for anything else that you want to do or hire somebody, you you have to go raise it. I was like, how do you do that?
00:06:42
Speaker
Will you write for grants? And I'm like, okay. that was i was totally thrown into the bar now i'm insulated because i'm part of a bigger non-profit when we spun off maybe four years later but then i got into that team and i was like and so basically i'm writing term papers i'm begging the abel foundation i want to do xyz and it would take you so long and they'd get the letter and they'd be like yeah no we love what you're trying to do but no and i went on this path for several years i'm like
00:07:12
Speaker
This is bullshit. Like you can't run a business like this, right? And you start hiring people and people are buying houses and getting married. I'm like, I think people's livelihoods I'm responsible for.
00:07:23
Speaker
And so I spent several years developing ah what you would now call a sustainable business model for a nonprofit. But I was like, we need to earn our own income. All right. Cause this, I don't want like M&T banks, philanthropic dollars. want their marketing dollars. Like how we get that?
00:07:39
Speaker
And so I built this whole system of like, okay, we had to retail facility, a mortgage loan officer would be there, a real estate agent would be there, and they all paid for that benefit.
00:07:50
Speaker
We did continuing education courses with real estate agents. When I left that organization, 45% of its income was self-generated. That was a game changer. No one had ever done that before.
00:08:02
Speaker
Wow. but that gave me freedom. Like I wanted to do a paid advertising campaign in Washington, D.C. about living in Baltimore. go Now, Goldsucker Foundation gave us some money, but in general, like the city Baltimore, I was giving you money for that.
00:08:16
Speaker
Well, you're not paid for an ag campaign, but I could use that money. And then it further positioned us to say, oh, okay, for all you apartment home inspectors, mortgage lenders, real estate agents, you want to reach people that want to live in the city? I'm now your gatekeeper because I'm the one advertising out of market. So if you're not partnering with us, you're not in the
Challenges and New Beginnings
00:08:36
Speaker
game.
00:08:37
Speaker
And so that was how we built this structure. It was amazing. Now, this was a while ago. Do you think it's changed or do you think Baltimore is still suffering from that pathological modesty, which is preventing it from investing in its best and in focusing on its worst?
00:08:53
Speaker
So I left Baltimore several years ago. and here's what I've said to people now that are like people my age, generation. So I did that. That was close to 30 years ago when I started with Baltimore and did that job.
00:09:05
Speaker
And so I say to people now, like, it's time for the next generation, right, to come in and move forward. Because when I came in, there were, it was like the Don Hutchins of the world at GDC. And I was like, you got to go. Your perspective is so archaic.
00:09:18
Speaker
And our world is changed a lot. Yes. And I think from a, there's a power and diversity piece in Baltimore. I came from Syracuse, New York. It was like Whitey Whiteville.
00:09:29
Speaker
Let's be real. Baltimore was a huge cultural shift for me and made me see things that I had never seen and struggled with how to perceive a lot of those things.
00:09:42
Speaker
Baltimore constantly challenges you, always, but in a good way, right? If you're doing it right, you're changing a little bit yourself. So sitting now, it's the the problem with cities and cities that size is it's the economy.
00:09:58
Speaker
If you don't have money, you can't do anything, right? You can't fix quality of life. You can't fix potholes and make these parks better. And so there are a whole sector of people that are willing to pay that money.
00:10:12
Speaker
urban premium, right? Because they love that quality life. But if you can't hold and fix their basics, like they will have had enough. How many more times is my car going to get propane into? And so when you don't have a strong employee base and everything is built off property taxes, there's a whole...
00:10:29
Speaker
wind up thinking about how you restructure the property taxes in Baltimore City. You tax actually the property and not the building. So then absentee landlords, they're not paying less because their house looks like a piece of shit. You're paying the same thing as everybody else. So it gets...
00:10:45
Speaker
to be this whole foreclosure issue. Baltimore is so complicated, but also it has so much potential, right? You can do anything you want there. I went there. im was married at the time when I went there. My ex-husband did morning radio. we Our marriage ended live on the radio. He was just such a...
00:11:04
Speaker
Joke. Okay. So I had to totally make myself there. And that's the beauty of Baltimore. And you can do that. You want to do that. You want to run for political office. You're engaged in that.
00:11:15
Speaker
You can like, it's it's a place where there's not like, then someone asks you where you went to high school. It's not so entrenched, like, like what's your name? Who's your family? know, you can make your way. Now there's people like that are always going to kind of rise to the top.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah. I think Baltimore is great that way. Yeah. This is a good kind of backdrop into, she but how did tell explain to me how you moved into running your own company.
00:11:39
Speaker
and So, yeah. So let's see. i was i would say like the seven-year mark at Baltimore. That was kind of job. Those aren't jobs. Okay. Okay. You're running a nonprofit or you're the founder of a company. That's a life.
00:11:52
Speaker
and That is your life. Yeah. And I loved that. It never felt like a job, right? Because it just, I was free to do whatever I want. If I could raise the money and pull together the partners, like it was limitless.
00:12:05
Speaker
I came up with this ad campaign once we ran in DC when like George Bush was president and there was a whole thing about how and NSA was tapping American phones. No.
00:12:15
Speaker
Wait. So I did an ad, okay. i read an ad in DC that said it had like a photo stock photo image of George Bush on the phone. And the headline was like, yeah We already know if you're talking to people in Baltimore. Why don't we just move here anyways?
00:12:31
Speaker
It was a circle, right? and I can only get a little buy, but the PR that I got on that, it was picked up by the Chicago Sun-Times. And so we used to do kooky stuff like that. And then all of a sudden you get a call from somebody in DC. And I was like, I said to the board, was like, if our taxes get audited and I'm sorry, I apologize. We had the opportunity to do that kind of stuff. And so I just was feeling like,
00:12:55
Speaker
I can just hit this reset button every year. No one is ever going to push me out of here. No one's going to say I have to go. This thing is, I can run this on coast and do just fine.
00:13:08
Speaker
And I thought, is this going to be the definition of my life? Like that that this is what's when they write my op end, this is going to be it. This was it. And I'm like, I don't think, I think that there's got to be something more left in the tank.
00:13:21
Speaker
And so I left, I quit and I gave him a long-term notice. And John, my part my partner, who he's like old school CEO and he's like, ah you're going to quit without a job without already another job. i'm like, yeah, maybe you don't understand what it's like to do a job like this because there is no bandwidth to think about anything else but this job.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. And, and so I did, and I didn't know what I was going to do. So I just, cause it was all, I used to be in the paper and the media all the time. It was ridiculous. Like I sat with myself for two years and I said,
00:13:53
Speaker
Okay, I am no longer going to be invited to things. No one in the media is going to ask my opinion. I'm going to become persona non grata as soon as I leave this job. And I better be okay with that.
00:14:04
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened. And I was okay with it. I did it in my head and I thought, what's my worst case scenario? And I really thought about it and i said, okay, my worst case scenario is I can't find another job.
00:14:16
Speaker
I go to back to bartending that I did a hundred years ago and it's my former board president and I have to wait on him. Like that would be ill. And I was like, all right, if that's the worst I can come up with, because I had an apartment in my house. I'm like, I know I can always make my mortgage.
00:14:31
Speaker
And I was like, if that's worst case scenario, I'll take it. I'm going. And so I pushed myself off the cliff because no one else was ever going to do it. Yeah. And then the phone rang and there's that and other thing and different jobs and opportunities. And this one, this gentleman that I used to work with in Baltimore city, Stacy span, who's guy who went to Howard County. And he's like, I need you all this affordable housing stuff for doing in Howard County. I was like, okay.
00:14:55
Speaker
And actually, i've forgot about this. Yes, mayor Governor O'Malley, they tried to hire me at the state and they wanted me to put on this BRAC realignment, this base realignment thing.
00:15:06
Speaker
And I went back and forth with these interviews. And they take long. And so i was like, okay, I signed this contract with Stacey. And they're like, okay, so you know we're ready to hire you. I'm like, oh yeah, that's too late now. I are i get to this contract. And they're like, we have a pin for you.
00:15:21
Speaker
Do you know what this means? In government, they have a pin for you. of like They said, it's so hard to get a pin that says, we're going to hire this person. It's gone through all the paperwork. There's a pin, there's a number.
00:15:32
Speaker
And that spots for you. And I was like, oh, I'm not taking that. And then everyone was like, Do you know how hard that is? I'm like, no, know anything about that. And then I would see O'Malley, there makes me like yell at me from across the room. He's like, I heard that.
00:15:47
Speaker
Who's the lieutenant governor? Anthony. He's the state's attorney guy. I know. Anthony. He's like, I heard that you men with Anthony and Valawa and you're not going to. And he's like, do we need to yell this across the room?
00:15:58
Speaker
That's not necessary. Please don't embarrass me. Well, I think you're starting to see The real other side of it, right? Yeah. How things really work and community level at a, that engagement level between kind of issue and legislation and like how things make that leap.
00:16:21
Speaker
And there are the way that things are done and how they kind of have to be done. It's a little like, oh, I get it. Lawyers are always involved and it always comes down to, because I've been at that table and I'm not the one saying this, but people are part of a team and the conversation is like, okay, here's the candidates that you need to donate money to.
00:16:41
Speaker
And here's kind of what you should do. I had a contract, not with the state, but with an entity in the state of Maryland. And I was kind of told you might want to consider donating the maximum to that campaign because it might matter if your contract gets renewed?
00:16:59
Speaker
And then I did. And it was the biggest check that I ever wrote for something like that. And I was told later, yeah, your girl did the right thing. And part of me was like, oh. Yeah, pay to play.
00:17:11
Speaker
And we pretend that it's not, but It is. oh yeah, because there's so many like kind of screens that you can hide behind. Yeah, there's just i mean, ah that that whole what did Trump do? He sold some bullshit crypto thing.
00:17:25
Speaker
And I'm like, do we all not see this as just a way for China like buy him? Well, ah you that you know, it takes us for sale right now. You just named your price. It's already sold. People having dinner with him at Mar-a-Lago and it's a hundred thousand dollars a pop. And it's like, where's that money going?
00:17:42
Speaker
We're yeah. Talk about for my health. Yeah. My health within is I just read the headlines, you know, are the bombs coming? i don't want to get into it because it's, I'm not giving any my life to that. No, and I think that's that's been my advice to a lot of people. A lot of people are struggling right now like so with mental health around what's happening. And this is capitalism eating itself, right? This is like, it's just, it's all about money and power and greed and corruption. And it's just one full display.
00:18:13
Speaker
And a lot of people are struggling. And I'm like, look, at the end of the day, focus on what you can actually control. um Focus on what actually matters in your life. And yeah, do what you got to do when you got to do it.
00:18:26
Speaker
But in the meantime, don't let it Don't let it destroy you. Don't let these people... You said something in another podcast that I was walking when I was listening to you, and I was like, oh my God.
00:18:38
Speaker
Exactly. you said, and this is the thing that I have said, this is the last... desperate gasp of these old white men for power, trying to hold onto it.
00:18:51
Speaker
Because I said, what was it like three years ago? It was the first time in the U S population. We had the largest percentage of non-white births. Yes. That's the horizon. Yeah. They are scared shitless.
00:19:05
Speaker
And this is this whole thing is this last grasp of power. that They are going to die. Yes, but you look at the community that you live in.
00:19:16
Speaker
It's not the wi media, but look at the stand in your own community and look around. And if you're telling me that you see nothing but white people around you, you either live in some really strange place where you're not paying attention.
00:19:29
Speaker
That's not how things operate now. Also, yeah, it's not all white people standing around and it's also not assholes all standing around. It is nice people. It is people that genuinely care about each other, that genuinely want the best for their neighbors and their community and their families.
00:19:48
Speaker
And what the what is right outside our doors and in most parts of this country and the world are people who want who want good and who want to help, and who want everyone to be better and okay. And yeah, good luck with this. It's ugly, but it will it's not sustainable.
00:20:11
Speaker
No, it's not. So I just, I was like, oh my, when I heard you say that, I was like, yes, I'm totally down with that. I've heard so many things on some of your different podcasts. and i'm I'm late to the podcast game, right? Because I don't have much time of like building and renovating houses. It's ridiculous, all the things I'm getting myself involved in.
00:20:29
Speaker
But when this afternoon, yeah, after this last election, I was like, Oh, I had always had a morning routine about the news. I'm like, you know, that's dumb. I can't, I don't want any of this shit sticking to me.
00:20:40
Speaker
And so I started to turn the podcast a little bit more and going back and kind of listening to your young archive. I know you haven't been doing this very long, but just some really interesting things and some professional things are interesting. The woman talking about email I thought was so cool.
00:20:55
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, email's not dead. That's what I thought. But just different people's perspectives about kind of how they're thriving and where they're thinking, their point of view. And it's like, I think it's, you read all these things now, right? What's happening post COVID and we're still so isolated, right? We got into that mode and somebody wrote a piece, I think, in the New york Times the other day, you know what we need? We need more parties.
00:21:20
Speaker
Right. We need to get people together more. and we need to be having fun. And just listening to some of your podcasts, I was like, oh yeah, these are like interesting people that like I would want to sit down and be at a dinner party with. How cool. yeah I miss like that's and that's all around us. We can go out and do that and have those experiences and those exchanges. And those are the things and those are the people I want to be talking to.
00:21:44
Speaker
I think something between COVID and then just the internet and Twitter and media and the noise and the constant barrage of it, it makes us feel like our world is so big and we can get here from all these different voices, but none of it's personal.
00:22:02
Speaker
Right. None of it's really personal. And when you have it even exchanges with the person that's working at the grocery store to having dinner and conversation with someone that you don't know, but you're curious enough to find out what makes them tick and what they care about.
00:22:17
Speaker
Those are all things that to me are a great part of the human condition. The human condition is not to make a lot of money and have the most followers on Twitter and no just so much bullshit.
Human Connection and Humor
00:22:30
Speaker
like i would say i feel like ah when I'm having a bad day or I'm just like, you feel overwhelmed, man, just that stupid conversation with somebody in the grocery store, like, Hey, i really like your sweater. Like and I now make a very conscious effort to have these very kind of would seem insignificant comments and kind of engagement with people because it's just like, Oh, look, we're human.
00:22:56
Speaker
Like we're connected. And that I think has so much value in making you feel grounded. It is the freest, most generous thing you can do is to give that to other people throughout your day. And nancy I was talking with Nancy Lyons. We were talking about how yeah we're talking about how being being queer, coming up in the coming of age in the eighty s and into the ninety s as lesbians We were like, fuck it, we're going to have to figure out how to have our own fun and make our own way.
00:23:28
Speaker
And nobody's going to tell us how we should be or are supposed to be because though it was not a very good time to to be that. And now today, kind of facing where everyone's being treated like the way the gays were treated in the 80s, pretty much if you're a decent person, you're like,
00:23:46
Speaker
a piece of trash if you're different in any way shape or form right you've just you're just being devalued constantly and told that you don't matter and that and threatened and scared but you don't like that because it forces them to look at themselves right Well, they're different from, well, am I, do do I not fit into it? You can boil so much of human nature down to it's people's insecurities. It's just, it's these kind core pillars, but yeah, we're similar age, right? Yeah. I remember that. And then people would come out you'd be like,
00:24:20
Speaker
Oh yeah, that makes sense. Anyway, so that what I was saying, blah, blah, blah. was like, i don't care. And then he started making a big deal out of him. Like, well, she's not quite hitting on me. She's not trying to make me gay. She's pretty clear in that. Like, yeah, she's not interested me at all. Like, why do I care?
00:24:35
Speaker
yeah That whole indoctrination thing, we were laughing about it with, with higher eds. If higher eds were really so good at indoctrination, we wouldn't be in the position we're in today. with We would be nothing, but Sarah Lawrence is everywhere. Yeah.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah. Clearly they weren't very good at it. But I do think that the other thing someone was talking about recently was just like, if you really look at this group of evildoers, they're bunch of losers, honestly.
00:24:59
Speaker
They're like, they're the guys that have always been pissed off that they're not invited and nobody's, they're just like, wah. And they managed to get, get away with a lot of bullshit for a long time. And now they're trying to leverage that power in a way that you would describe like in,
00:25:16
Speaker
a very insecure person doing. south I grew up with three older brothers, so i and none of my brothers were like that. Everyone was just more confident than the other. and's all And so I can just look at some of the behavior, like, small dick behavior.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah. but Yeah. Small dick energy, for sure. Especially when they're driving a Cybertruck. but's That's my bro. Don't even get me started.
00:25:40
Speaker
so strike But I will say, i do think that the people who are still raw this whole shit show that we're going through right now, I do think are, they've just been in a situation where they've seen a lot of things that were intended to be good things become corrupted, become stagnant, become ineffective, and nobody's doing anything about it.
00:26:08
Speaker
So there is a notion of like, well, it, things do need to change. I would hope it wouldn't have had to happen this way when this is not the way to do it.
00:26:20
Speaker
But there is a an argument to be made that a lot of this stuff isn't working right now and does need to be changed. So I think that's kind of how we ended up in this situation to a large degree.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah. and And then I also think There's a ton of people in this country that are still pissed off that some black guy made it to the White House. And why the hell am I still here? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:26:46
Speaker
but whether The media is not, they're certainly not objective. Like they're judging jury. This is not news because news used to be balanced. Now it's all opinion, right? It's a panel of people or even whatever the evening news is, you know, you're on CNN or your Foxes. It's so much opinion driven, If you actually want news, the only thing you can watch is PBS NewsHour.
00:27:08
Speaker
That's it. Just news does not get the attention that all of the judgment and yeah, it's judgment. Look, we are a byproduct of what the computers have figured out and these algorithms have figured out that gets right to our lizard brain faster than anything else. And that's anger and fear.
00:27:28
Speaker
The old it bleeds, it leads. It's true. And we're being manipulated by all of that every day. And so I do kind of hope there is a reckoning around just like unplugging from all of this and getting back to smaller community focused attention and what what we're directing our attention towards. It's so manipulated.
00:27:48
Speaker
If you even look at the Baltimore Banner, right? Like they are yeah cutting a path. that has uncharted waters and they're having great success with it. And like, I don't even live there anymore, but I subscribe to cause I want to support them. Right. And they're growing and they're doing really well.
00:28:04
Speaker
And they're showing that you don't have to be some massive conglomerate to own a local news publication that has quality information that people want. Yeah, and you everything doesn't have to be a hit piece. Everything doesn't have to be a an attack or a defense or a position or opinion.
00:28:25
Speaker
I do want to talk about what ah how you have how you have changed in your life and business and all of it through going through your cancer diagnosis and your very scary battle.
Cancer Diagnosis and Advocacy
00:28:40
Speaker
And i don't even like using the word battle. do Full-on war, baby. Yeah. So I'll tell you and I'll share some things, my tips, particularly to women about healthcare.
00:28:53
Speaker
and So I'll start with this. As a woman, you are very likely to be dismissed by doctors for whatever your issue are. And if you are a woman of color, you can add another 30% onto that.
00:29:08
Speaker
So my thing is, if you have an issue that has lasted more than two weeks, get your ass to the doctor. That's what you have healthcare care for. And you push until you get the answers that you are comfortable with.
00:29:21
Speaker
So I'm gonna start with that and then I'm gonna talk about, because I had ovarian cancer. So here was my situation. This is 2019. I'm working on two very big projects, very stressful, working with two women, two different projects.
00:29:37
Speaker
And this whole women working with each other, helping each other. these two were not them, okay? These were were two nightmare projects. And in my small view was, look,
00:29:51
Speaker
It's my company. I've taken this contract. i need to see this through. Right. I can't wait. Now I know, oh you know what? I don't like how this is working. We're going to tally up on the back of napkin where we are hours wise. And yeah you can have some of this money back and we're done. See you later. Yeah.
00:30:08
Speaker
Thanks. And good luck. And you can have all these assets. These are yours. But at the time I was like, no, I got to do this. I got to finish through. So I was struggling because I wasn't feeling well.
00:30:20
Speaker
I was really tired and I was perimenopausal at the time. So I'm writing a lot of stuff off to that. I have this loading that was like, I would call it like my food baby. I'm like, oh, it's just so weird. And here's my symptoms for ovarian cancer.
00:30:36
Speaker
I felt fuller a little quicker after I ate. I had bloating and I had my GI was off. Nothing like extreme just wasn't normal.
00:30:46
Speaker
Nothing. No, nothing was like, oh my gosh, heart palpitation. Nothing. This is the thing about ovarian cancer. So the sides were very subtle. And the other thing is I've never had like acne, but my face was breaking out and I wrote this stuff off to perimenopause. I don't know. It's not even like the doctor tells you what's going on, right?
00:31:05
Speaker
And all this stuff finally gets done. I go to my doctor who my primary care in Baltimore and this guy had been with for a long time. And he's like, no, all of ready is all very cool. Right. Cause he's like, well, I said, we haven't done his C125 tests in a long time, which is a, it's a potential marker for ovarian cancer, but it's not a definitive test.
00:31:27
Speaker
It's not like the PSA test for prostate cancer. It could work and work for everybody. Cause I had an ovarian cyst many years ago. He said, okay. okay And Friday I'm on the golf of course. Okay.
00:31:41
Speaker
Like to play golf golfing with my two guy friends. I'm on the four full phone rings. I'm like, Oh, it's my doctor. I want to take this. Hi. And I, he's like, normally I wouldn't tell you this on the phone. He's like, but you have ovarian cancer.
00:31:54
Speaker
ah was like, what, what? but He's like, yeah. He's like, I just want to tell you because it's Friday. I was like. Okay. I hung the phone. I looked at my two friends. I was like, yeah, I have to go. off have cancer. You're just like, it's literally someone just hit you over the head.
00:32:10
Speaker
And I made two vocals. Yeah. My partner is who is actually in Florida. bit His boss is junior, who died of glioblastoma. And my neighbor across the street, Dr. Karen Miller, shout out to Dr. Karen Miller, who's at St. Agnes, who's she's an oncologist and her. And I was like, here I need to talk to you immediately. I'm cancer.
00:32:30
Speaker
I mean, my phone rings. This is a woman. She's a big deal. drops the phone immediately. She's like, what? And so I go and get a scan of all all this stuff. I get the CD. I come over to her house. I always kept one laptop that had a CD ROM in it because you never knew.
00:32:44
Speaker
and i was like, we can look at this. And she's like, you want me to tell you what I really see or just give me an argument? like, no, give a doll to me. She's like, yeah, you have a like a like an eight inch tumor and an 11 inch tumor and they're right here and there.
00:32:59
Speaker
She's like, yeah. She's like, you're stage three at least. ah Wow. I know. I'm like, what? And for me personally, thank goodness John was away because I was just like, I didn't ah know how to process this. And so my role in business has always been somebody does something that pissed me off. I let it sit for 24 hours. I don't do anything. I don't react the next day. So I was like,
00:33:26
Speaker
right, this is going to need my 72 hours game. It's going need a little longer for this one. And so you go through the whole like, why me and blah, blah, blah. And so I came out of my Monday, Tuesday. I was like, okay, I'm um i'm online. I'm Googling it. i'm like, okay, I got to do this without the other thing.
00:33:41
Speaker
And so yeah it just starts and it moves fast. This is the thing about cancer. This you time is not on your side, right? And you have to make a lot of really big decisions very quickly.
00:33:52
Speaker
So I'll say yeah it's like May 4th and my CA-125 is 825. So for a woman, it shouldn't be over 35. Now for some women, it can say, oh, it's 10 and you've got stage four cancer. So it doesn't, this is the thing. It's not a definitive test. doesn't work for everybody. It's a protein marker.
00:34:10
Speaker
Right. life Meet this doctor, that doctor. And I already youve been at Mercy Hospital. And my God, I cannot say enough about Mercy. Baltimore gets accolades for Johns Hopkins. Mercy, I'm telling you, if you want to know how good a hospital is, you find out how the people that are not doctors, how happy are they?
00:34:28
Speaker
The techs, the nurses, the people that take the trash out of the hospital rooms. Are these people happy? Because if they're happy, that's a great place to be. That's a great point. Hopkins doesn't really check all those boxes.
00:34:41
Speaker
And I wanted to go, I said to John, I was like, I feel like I have to go to Hopkins for a second opinion. It's right down the street. This is the thing about the Northeast in general. Your next second an opinion is down the street, down the road, next time over.
00:34:54
Speaker
And so I went there and I was shocked by how poorly they were just, okay, yeah. hi here you are. Here's how we do. This is how we treat this. I'm like, What? Like, I don't know, like my history I don't like, no, this is what we do. was like, okay, I'm not telling you.
00:35:10
Speaker
So I went to mercy and so my world comes to a screeching halt. Everything that you know, that you're involved in, it just stops. Let me even back up really quick though, Tracy, when you said you went and got a scan.
00:35:23
Speaker
Yeah. CT scan. What kind of scan did you get? Anything that women should be able to get their doctor to prescribe? on and no you can't get, you can't get that. It's very expensive.
00:35:34
Speaker
Cause you take, you it's contrast, you drink this stuff. And so they scan you. Now you can, yeah like MRIs, the MRIs are even more expensive, but no doctor hospital is going to pay for a scan or give you a prescription for it. Now you can go to these places and get these scan decks, whatever these different companies are called. I've noticed they've popped up. Yeah. Yeah. So you can get that.
00:35:57
Speaker
The problem and challenge with those is it's a snapshot today. Right now. And we don't really know is that's when you get a mammogram or there's a dark spot. Not sure. We're going to go then do ultrasound. We might do a biopsy, right? We don't know. You can't tell. right And you can compare it. you And you can compare it to the mammograms and you've hopefully already had to.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yes. So that's why I like, if you have dense breasts, they'll be like, we always know that this is a weird area. We biopsy this. Like I have ah a titanium seed in one of my breasts because after I've been treated with cancer, they're like, and then they mark and they're like, that's fine. quote So we know in the future, that's always the place.
00:36:33
Speaker
Yeah, i have one too. Yeah. Yeah. Park this conversation and say, from a testing standpoint, this is what is so fascinating. I am deep in the whole eye cancer stuff now.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah. You can now buy a test. It's called the Gallieri test. It's $1,000. It is not as not approved by the FDA yet. One blood test will test up to 50 cancers in you right now today.
00:37:01
Speaker
Wow. Now, and for these cultures that are, that don't, they don't, the symptoms show up so late for some, a lot of yeah and ovarian cancer. zo undergra Yeah.
00:37:13
Speaker
Colon cancer. The rate for people of getting colon cancer under 40 years old is skyrocketing globally. It's not just a U S then. So now remember when they used to say call it, get a colonoscopy at 50 and then get it at 45.
00:37:29
Speaker
There's something going on now. If you ask me, all related to environmental factors. Most cancers, 15, maybe 20% are genetic or inherited. The rest are all lifestyle and environmental.
00:37:41
Speaker
So you tell me. Yeah, we have lot plastic in our bodies too. Oh, plastic. Yeah. yeah So there's that test, which is fascinating. And that actually is going under a huge clinical trial in the EU right now.
00:37:54
Speaker
Because they're trying to narrow down the misdiagnosis. think they were up it like somewhere around 28%. They're trying to get that down lower. So you don't have a misdiagnosis rate.
00:38:05
Speaker
But the axotas, like if you knew that you had the BRCA gene or whatever. Right. um cancer yeah i know i and you'd You could get that right now. I think that's that's the thing is that if you go into your doctor, especially as a woman or any minority, and you are you're describing symptoms and they're so like, oh, well, it's probably gas. It's probably hormones. Like, well, here's a pill to mask the fetus symptoms. We're not going to worry about something that might, an underlying issue that might be causing it.
00:38:34
Speaker
Here's something just to address the symptoms. And I do think that women in particular, as you described, like need to fight and advocate for our own health. And sometimes it is just telling the doctor, Hey, I want you to treat me as if I may be at risk of having something more serious here. What tests can I get prescribed through mine that can be covered through the insurance that you will prescribe? Or to a specialist.
00:38:59
Speaker
You got to keep checking all the boxes. Yeah. yeah Yeah. You have to advocate for yourself. Since I've been through this, I am a huge advocate. Like for ovarian cancer on a national organization, I go to DC and try and get more research funding with these people all over the country. We do it through the Ovarian Cancer Research Alliance. But on the other side, I probably every other month text.
00:39:22
Speaker
So I have a friend, my boss's sister just got diagnosed with a rare cancer. You talked to Absolutely. I will take that call. I don't have kids, but I take that call as if it was a kid.
00:39:33
Speaker
You call me anytime, day and night, I will talk to you about this. know you have, you have really been such a, an advocate and spoken so much about the changes that you made to, that you both went through, the treatment you went through and the changes that you made and the research that you did has just been amazing.
00:39:49
Speaker
I'm like, when's the book coming out? But in the meantime, I do want to go back because you were talking about going to Mercy. Yeah. And so I go, yeah. So I go in, so that number I said CD125 was 825. Okay. So I have all these meetings, go to this doctor.
00:40:04
Speaker
What's the plan? We're going you're like, when you have fluid in your abdomen, they call that ascites, right? They're like, the ascites is, the bloating is so serious. We have to hit you with chemo right away. You're going to do it weekly, not every three weeks. Like got to start to contain this.
00:40:20
Speaker
From the time I was diagnosed, my first infusion of chemotherapy was three weeks later. And by the time I had my first infusion, that CO-125 was up to 1,450. That's how fast and how just strong that cancer was. It was like...
00:40:39
Speaker
gasoline on a match. Jeez. You're just freaking out, right?
Cancer Treatments and Recovery
00:40:43
Speaker
Now I go to my first infusion and I'm crying because you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. Okay. All I know is they're going put these chemotherapy drugs inside of me. I am, I'm like, am I going to literally give all these premeds so that you don't have these weird reactions?
00:40:58
Speaker
You're there for eight hours. How did you deal with that? How did you deal with that fear? I was just, I was scared and I cried and these nurses are angels.
00:41:10
Speaker
Okay. School teachers, nurses, they're angels. And they are just like, oh honey, don't worry. You know, I had breast cancer. I can't believe how many nurses I met that had cancer.
00:41:21
Speaker
Okay. It was unbelievable. Yeah. know Oh, you're going to be fine. well long We're going to take care of you. And that first infusion goes, you're like, okay, I'm not dead yet. I'm still here.
00:41:31
Speaker
I'm still here. But I talk to a a lot of people and anybody I could find. And I say to people, Anybody that you've met over your life, you have cancer, you wring that rag out from the last drop of water. You call whoever you got to call to get an appointment with whoever. there are No one is going to reject you if they can help you. okay You need to see that top doctor at Hopkins. You do whatever you got to do to get in that door.
00:41:58
Speaker
Because that is the difference between, that could be the difference between life and death. So I was talking to a lot of people and i have a friend who he I met him when he was at Hopkins doing research and he's at Harvard and he does. It has nothing to do with cancer.
00:42:13
Speaker
This guy is hysterical. Dr. Kevin Kitt Parker. Okay. This guy's brilliant. I saw him on 60 minutes one day when I was like making dinner years ago. i was like, Oh my God, is that Kevin? i He's just that smart.
00:42:24
Speaker
And he's like Southern and he's, he's like, He's very direct. He's like, Tracy, I'm just going to tell you. He's like, look, you're strong. You're real strong. He's like, you got to go hard. Okay. You take kitchen sink. You throw everything you got to eat. You go in it hard.
00:42:37
Speaker
He's like, because you want to do this once. And I was like, oh, right all right. It's hard to walk to people and they give me all this advice. i was like, all right, I got to go hard at this. Right. And so I did this start with the chemo.
00:42:48
Speaker
And they stick a rod in your abdomen for four weeks. It sucked the fluid out of your abdomen and your lung. It's like a gallon of it looked like red Kool-Aid. It was just going 90 miles an hour. You're like, okay And so there is a team at Mercy that does this oncology surgery called HiPEC.
00:43:07
Speaker
H-I-P-E-C stands for hypothermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy. And so I had heard about this and when I was first going there, i was like, don't try and push that surgery on me because I'm not getting it. I'm like, I've read about and I've seen the videos and that stuff looks nasty.
00:43:25
Speaker
And my oncologist, who's this lovely man from Greece, he'd laugh and he'd be like, no, he's like, I'm not gonna make you do anything you don't wanna do. I'm like, Cause I know where this is going. Cause by that point they're like, yeah, this cancer fluid that was in your abdomen is pushed into your lung.
00:43:40
Speaker
And so that makes you stage four. Now you get on Google and just Google yourself, ovarian cancer stage for survival. And it says 30% of the people live five years.
00:43:53
Speaker
You're like, oh, that's Yeah. Shit gets real. And then people ask me like, how do you know, like, how do you fight back? And it's everything that's going on right now.
00:44:05
Speaker
What are your other options? Your option is to let it overtake you. We're not letting that happen. So I'm going to, in my head, I was like, okay.
00:44:16
Speaker
So 30% my partner, John, who was so optimistic, she's like, this is, he's like, we're going to take care this. Isn't going to be a problem. He had prostate cancer. She's only two, you're at stage four. He's like, you're going to do it.
00:44:27
Speaker
You're going be great. And I'm like, I don't think so. and so in my head, I was like, all right, there's a 30% that make it through that doorway. How the hell do I get in that 30% lane? What do I got to do to be that?
00:44:39
Speaker
And so I did that surgery. And so this high pec surgery is. It's regular surgery, right? that If you have a ranitensia, they cut you open. They don't do laparoscopically. And they got you open.
00:44:51
Speaker
And so I had already had chemotherapy. They do the radical hysterectomy. But this guy, Dr. Sardi and his team, the surgical team, they call this high-pec surgery, they call it the shake and bake.
00:45:05
Speaker
I'll never forget you describing that in that way to me. Yeah, because you can't forget it. And they're all telling me to be great. So they take everything out of you, cut in your residual cancer they see. And his thing is you the cytoreductive surgery. and It's when they take the inside of your body during surgery. And his approach is we take everything out that you don't need to survive because it gives one less place the cancer can come back.
00:45:27
Speaker
So it's radical hysterectomy. Out comes your spleen. Out comes your gallbladder, your appendix and your omentum. Which is that kind of fatty tissue that's between your kind of skin and your abdominal wall kind of holds all your stuff in.
00:45:41
Speaker
And huh cancer loves that because all sorts little crows. They take all this shit out. Then they take the heat chemo to 170 degrees. They base it, you line in line out. 90 minutes on the table this thing's running through your abdomen they roll you around the table this is the shape part because the chemo is baking you and the nurses and they're like you like need you up to try and get it in all the crevices because the point is we know this is where the cancer is it's not in my brain let's get the chemo where the cancer is do it for 90 minutes suction it out staple you up send you to icu they're not fucking around
00:46:18
Speaker
No. This is a 10 hour, for me it was a 10 hour surgery. They call it the mother of all surgeries for a reason. If you are not in ICU, this is the worst one you can get.
00:46:28
Speaker
Now, worst one you can get. This kind of surgery regular is, it's a pain in the ass anyways, because it's your abdominal core. So this was the go as hard as you can, Tracy thing. Okay.
00:46:39
Speaker
So I was like, all right, this is my best shot at life. Right. I have to do it. And I was in the hospital for eight days and our average can run like 10 to 12. i'm sure I'm sure that there's not a this is, there's no guarantee you're going to survive this surgery, this process.
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah, most people survive the surgery. It's though what happens after. The recovery from this is considerable. And so I was all about, how the hell do I get out of this hospital?
00:47:06
Speaker
And one day, Dr. Sardi, and he talks to this heavy Colombian accent. Yeah. And know I was in the hospital like four days and it's just tubes everywhere. Drains and foeys and you're all over the place. I could show a picture of I'm bald. It's just, it's sad. but but But that's my warrior picture, right?
00:47:23
Speaker
But you want to look and feel how good, how far you've come. You look at that and you're like, yeah, I can. Yeah, can. youre You need, you should send me some pictures. And for the people that are watching this, not just listening.
00:47:36
Speaker
and sure let's i'll want to add some of these in because I just think it it's very, i don't even have words for kind of what you went through. Yeah. intense. It's intense. And so he comes in and I was like, he's like, he's super positive. He's like, hi, how are we doing today? was like,
00:47:52
Speaker
I'm okay. And it's kind of rough. He's like, yeah, he's like, it's like I drove a Mack truck over you. And then I backed up and I won't have you again. i was like, yeah, you didn't tell me that before the surgery. He's like, oh, you'll be fine.
00:48:06
Speaker
Well, I'm not. I'm like, that's exactly what it felt like. You ran over me with a truck twice. And so I was just super like, I walked the halls, like it was my job. Anybody came to visit me. I'm like, we're walking. Cause yeah, I'm going to have a bowel movement to get out of there. And when they take all of your insides out, it takes a while for things to kind of find their way back.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah. So I got out and then it's a long road back because so much chemotherapy, your blood counts totally plummet. I went back to the hospital at one point that was maybe a month after, and I was so depressed.
00:48:40
Speaker
And I couldn't barely like take half a flight of stairs. Cause couldn't, I couldn't get any oxygen. and I was in there and I was crying and his PA team, there's like six of them, five or six of them. They're all really great. And I'm going in there just, they're going to do whatever, take some other drain out of me, this guy. And I'm like crying. I was like, yeah I'm never going to get better.
00:49:00
Speaker
I'm like, I'm never. I'm going to be like this forever. This is never going to get better. I just want to walk outside the front doors of this hospital and walk in front of a bus. It just like, just take me. I'm like, this is horrible.
00:49:12
Speaker
And he's like, I'm telling you, he goes, I've never gone through what you're going through. He's like, he goes, i totally get it. He's like, this is the most intensive surgery anybody can ever do. And he's like, I promise you, you're going to make it through wallh bla blah, blah, blah.
00:49:23
Speaker
And he's like, do you want to talk to a counselor? I'm like, sure. She comes over. I like, I got this.
00:49:31
Speaker
And he's like, right, let's just, we're going to get you two points of blood. He's like, I mean, you boost up your red blood cells. Yeah. Like an hour later, I was like, I'm fine. Let's go.
00:49:42
Speaker
I, you don't understand the chemistry of your body, red blood cells. If you're not getting oxygen to your brain and your body, you feel like you want to kill yourself. And I was like, oh, my black red blood counts are low. they Give me some more of that. I must've eight, eight transfusions of blood from the time of that surgery. Not that I was bleeding out, but that chemo just, it just destroys all your blood cells. I say chemotherapy is like, I need to kill three trees in a forest. so I'm just going to burn the whole thing down.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah. and they Were you continuing with chemo after your surgery or was it all in lead up and then you had the shake and bake? yeah So I did the, so would they would call a cycle of chemo is I hadn't broken out. So I had nine weekly sets of chemo, just three cycles.
00:50:31
Speaker
They want you to do six in total. So I have this whole surgery and the recovery is tough. Like trying to get my GI to work again. And you're so weak. I easily lost 20 pounds.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah, we can lose a lot of muscle mass and it's it's a struggle. And so I just would say to John, I'm like, look, this is one day at a time. I'm going to do the best that I can today. And some today's going to be better and maybe tomorrow's going worse. But that's all I got. That's all I got. That's all I can do.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah. And so then they wanted their like, oh, Yeah. So this is the part I probably left up. So I then, after they send everything to pathology, so they will give you a surgical report. And this thing's long. I couldn't even read it for many months after.
00:51:12
Speaker
And then they're like, oh, by the way, she has a very rare subtype of cancer called carciniosarcoma. How lucky you. Yeah. You Google that and it's like, Yeah, that one's bad. So like carcino and sarcoma. So carcino is cellular cancer, sarcoma is soft tissue. So that's like skin, bones, ligaments.
00:51:33
Speaker
And so this says, well, her cancer could come back anywhere now. So it can come back hard places to find. like could be soft tissue, whatever. Yeah.
00:51:44
Speaker
And been so then they're like, or we want you to do three more cycles of chemo. And I was like, no, dude, no. The whole reason i did that really bad surgery, so I wouldn't have to do that.
00:51:55
Speaker
I went ahead and did it. Cause you like, you just went through all that and you're like, you're going to stop at the, just before the finish line. It's like, fuck. it fine let's do it i don't want it it was although it was a lot easier doing it every three weeks but i pushed back and he wanted to do it like a month before and i said no i'm not ready he's like well we can't wait too long i'm like we're gonna wait as long as i need to and i'm not ready i know what it feels like to go through it i can't do it right now and so we wait another month and i felt a little bit stronger it was better but then then it's the recovery from that and i couldn't like leave my house comfortably about because
00:52:28
Speaker
Oh, I also had a like a resection in my lower rectum area because tumor was pushing up against that. And so they cut a piece out. Turns out it wasn't cancerous. So like my cold dang tank, like when I had to go, they had to go.
00:52:41
Speaker
So you go out to dinner and then peristals and stuff's moving. And I'd be in the car. I'm like, okay, we have to get home like right now. Yeah. I'm not going make it. So it'd be like, give me the keys. I'll run into the door. And so it was a process. It took me a while to feel normal in your head. And it's just all on culture, menopause now and surgical menopause, all this crazy stuff.
00:53:01
Speaker
So you go through all this. Now you're starting to feel like, okay, here I am. Here's where I'm at. So what are you going to do with yourself now? Yeah.
00:53:13
Speaker
So now have a cancer that has a very high recurrence rate, very high, probably like 80%. So now you're thinking like, well, this is going to come back. And so how do you want to spend your time?
00:53:26
Speaker
So do I jump back into work? Cause that's what I used to do. ha And then I get a reoccurrence three years later and I say, that's why I spent my time. And so I struggled, right? And what was really meaningful and how did I want to spend my time? And so John and my partner and I just, I had to build a house.
00:53:44
Speaker
And he's like, are you sure that you're up for this? I'm like, dude, I could be dead. Like in six months, I said, but I think that you should build this house. This is what you'd want. This would make you happy. Like when, before I went in for surgery, I had a big dinner party at the house the couple days before. Cause I was like, I'm not really interested in you all coming to my funeral.
00:54:03
Speaker
So we're going to have this party now. So if I don't make it, like I scheduled that surgery the day before my birthday. Because I was like, we'll see if there'll be something to celebrate the next day on my birthday. So I'm in ICU and everyone's like, oh, hey, it's your birthday. I was like, what?
00:54:17
Speaker
But that's my philosophy, right? So didn't party before. And then if I make it through to the other side, we'll do another party later. But that was my thing of like, I got to see if I can get to the other side of this because I don't know. And I kept everything very private because I didn't know if I was going to live.
00:54:33
Speaker
but I just didn't want the whole pity party and all that BS. Plus, I was like, if I start my business again, who's going hire the cancer lady? Well, had you stopped your business? Yes, I had stopped everything.
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah. I could need an email. Yeah. So see you you knew that, did you know that was going to be the course that as soon as you knew it was serious? Like, did you know that everything was just going to stop? No, because it's uncharted territory, right? Most of my family is long past. So it's not like I knew that cancer ran on my family. i This was not, I don't think that this is hereditary.
00:55:06
Speaker
This one, I look back on it now. I can look back on it with a lens that says, that was my life lifestyle. Too much stress, too much work, not enough sleep. That was, didn't cause the cancer, but it created an environment that made it easy for cancer to find a lifeline.
00:55:25
Speaker
So I work now. So I go through all this kind of healing stuff and all the medical stuff. I was on a maintenance drug called Avastin IV for a year, for 18 months after every three weeks I'd go for that. But that was easy. That was not like chemo.
00:55:39
Speaker
And that's all about suppressing blood vessel growth. So the cancer, that's all cancer is, right? We all have it walking around in our bodies. We have it. All it's who wants its lifeline is blood.
00:55:51
Speaker
It gets that lifeline and it can flourish. It may not, but it could. And so like a mass and suppresses your blood vessel growth. So when you're in this kind of recovery phase and cancer is trying to claw its way back, it can't, it's not easy for it to find a lifeline.
00:56:06
Speaker
Yeah. And so that's a great drug and that's an easy drug. And this whole process goes through and now I start to get into the why. Like, did I get here?
00:56:18
Speaker
And here's the thing about the United States. We are amazing at cutting you open and giving you pills. We are lifesavers. People from all over the world come to the US. We have the best healthcare. care But what we're not good at is understanding how did you get here?
00:56:35
Speaker
Why? We don't care about that because we can't make money off that. Yeah. So I got into this whole, like the why and some of these alternative treatments. So when I started going through treatment, I came up there. And when we first started, I said to John, I was like, look, I've done a bunch of research and i I had this, some health issues in the past. And I said, the one thing that I know is food matters.
00:56:58
Speaker
I said, I'm going to hire a private chef. And I've just read this book. This book had
Health, Diet, and Lifestyle
00:57:04
Speaker
just come out. Dr. William Lee, his last name's L.I. He's a Harvard guy. He just came out with a book called Eat to Beat Disease when I was diagnosed.
00:57:12
Speaker
It was like it was written for me. And I clung to this book like it was my Bible. And he's done TED Talks and he's like, scientifically, it's not a diet, what typically but here's the top 20 foods that fight cancer. I couldn't write this stuff down fast enough.
00:57:28
Speaker
Right. Green tea. Green tea is the number one cancer fighter that you have to consume. I was like, okay, I no longer drink coffee and I know great drink green tea. Okay. What else berries? Great. I love berries. And so you went down this whole thing. So I read his book and I built this sheet of like, these are the strongest cancer fighting foods. I hired a private chef and she's vegetarian. I was like, you cook only from this list.
00:57:54
Speaker
Yeah. i remember I remember you, I think you were posting about it maybe on Instagram. She would fill a refrigerator like, here's all this week's food. Yeah. But more more importantly than that, like you were just you were like, here's here's information that can save me or will have a big impact on my life. And why would I ignore it?
00:58:15
Speaker
Why wouldn't I lean into this and do these things? Like, I, and you did it like it was your job. And, and I just, I still live that way.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. I spend an inordinate amount of time in the kitchen and Building my quality of life. So his book is amazing. I highly recommend. He wrote a second book, Eat to Beat Your Retabolism or something. But it's like, it's science. When did we decide that food was not important? Like when it's not, it's the most important thing that we put into our bodies every day.
00:58:52
Speaker
Food is medicine, right? You look at chemotherapy, the longest, one of the longest ones that's been around carboplatin, that is directed derived from a tree. Okay. The true kind of natural medicines, they're all derived from nature, right? And so there's a cause and a reaction, right? And so you do certain things and not to say that you don't ever do anything, but like you start when I started reading years ago and it's like, and this is all before what's come out recently now about alcohol, like Alcohol is a class one carcinogen.
00:59:26
Speaker
No doubt about it. And I read that. I was like, okay, well, don't drink anymore. Yeah. that And my oncologist, every time I used to see him, when I was actively seeing him, like, and this is the thing about doctors.
00:59:38
Speaker
So are you still not drinking? Nope. He's like, that's good. They're not going to tell you not to do it because they don't want to be the bad guys and all that. Like, we're not going to try and legislate. And the other thing about the healthcare system is,
00:59:53
Speaker
Hospitals are run by lawyers. and medical profession, right? And so the medical team says, we've done the research, we believe this is the protocol for this kind of disease.
01:00:05
Speaker
Then the lawyers get involved and say, okay, this is how you will talk about it. And this is what you will say and what you won't say. And this is how it's the information is to be delivered. Okay.
01:00:16
Speaker
So what most patients don't realize is, because they think that these doctors are gods, right? Yeah, some of them are really smart and talented. But you ask questions, they will answer.
01:00:28
Speaker
i talked to the oncologist early on. I'm like, and um he he loved me, but there was no other patients like me. I'm like, I've got all these questions. What about this? do you think about mistletoe therapy? What about high dose vitamin C infusions?
01:00:40
Speaker
And you'd be like, mistletoe therapy, if you want to do it. And he's like, do it. it The only thing I don't want you to do is high dose vitamin C. He's like, because that can interfere with the chemotherapy. And I was like, Hey, what about cannabis? Cause I'm reading some things that cannabis can be good for cancer. He's like, totally endorse If you want to use it, do it.
01:00:56
Speaker
But it's not like they'll tell you these things, right? No. So I had to figure all this out on myself. And then years, a year, two years later, I found myself a naturopathic oncologist.
01:01:08
Speaker
She's an oncologist, but she's a naturopath. They exist. Yes. And she's actually in Maryland. And so I work with her and I say, i love my medical oncologist, but if I never have to see you again, life will be beautiful. And her and I will stay in our little lane. And so we do all sorts of stuff and it's, it comes down to two things.
01:01:29
Speaker
You want to stay healthy. It's two things. Keep inflammation low, keep your glucose and insulin low, or at least don't have ongoing spikes all day. So this is my whole thing. The the first thing that she asked me when I started working with her was like, she said, where do you get your water? And I said, not from the tap.
01:01:47
Speaker
She's like smart. I put in a reverse osmosis system. Like that's an all, whatever house I live in, that's it. Do not drink the tap water. I don't care where you live. Okay. Reverse osmosis strips everything out of the water. You put a remineralizer on it. It puts the trace minerals and the taste back in it.
01:02:05
Speaker
Yeah. Easy to do. Like 500 bucks. We are going to, I'm going just a note too. I'm going to get all of this written down and from you and links and we'll add it to the episode notes page on, on the website on Hello Adeo. I've got a section for Escape Velocity and all the show notes. And so I just want people to know who are listening. Don't freak out trying to write all this down.
01:02:28
Speaker
how yeah. Yeah. And if I can ever get website done, that would be the other reason. Yeah, or track down Tracy, but we'll try and I'll try and share notes and details from this conversation. Cause I, I do think we, people need to go on this journey for themselves and and get smarter about their nutrition and their life ah in general before having to go through something like this, ideally, but.
01:02:50
Speaker
Yeah. Ovarian cancer is one in 70 women. And I say to people, let me be the one that you know, and let's call, let's close the circle there. Right. And at cancer in general. and So just, I'm a big advocate for,
01:03:05
Speaker
advocating for your own health, the stuff that you can do around your food and diet, sleep hygiene, this hustle culture is such bullshit. Like you have a woman, particularly a menopausal woman, you must get eight to nine hours of actual sleep. Put the damn phone down, get sleep. It's how your body repairs itself, right? I know this is how I got myself in this stupid situation.
01:03:28
Speaker
I was not getting enough good quality sleep. It's exercise. This is all the stuff that you know, but you have to make a conscious effort. And the food thing is, it's super important. Do I eat meat?
01:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, on occasion. And you know what? I either get it from a farmer that I know wherever I am, or I buy it online because it's grass-fed, it's regenerative farming. Not necessarily does it have to be organic, but I will not eat meat out at a restaurant. I will not buy it at the grocery store, even if it's Whole Foods.
01:03:57
Speaker
No, good stuff is shit. Okay. then You watch that food Inc too, just recently came out. um Watch that. And that buying in the farmer's market, knowing your farmer, the, this industrialization of our food supply chain.
01:04:12
Speaker
It's off. It's off the charts. He talks about in the film, he's like, some things have gotten better, right? Like, now they're as far as markets everywhere. were Like, yeah, okay, that's right. That was kind of like a thing 20 years ago.
01:04:23
Speaker
But he's like, in other ways, it's gotten so, so much worse. And it just matters. That's what I just say to people. Like, we're killing ourselves and no one's paying attention and we don't care. And we got an administration that's completely dismantling the EPA. And so you think you're one as bad? Now you wait.
01:04:38
Speaker
I know. And now that I have children in my life, now that I'm stepmom, bonus mom. We talk a lot about the nutrition. You're the coolest mom. What's that? You're the coolest mom. Come on.
01:04:49
Speaker
Cool. Okay. Coolest mom. I'm also yeah also an old mom, but anyway, I don't have a lot of energy for these, for these 10 year old boys. I did watch that podcast. Oh, it's been. You know what he's keeping you? He's keeping you on trend. So, you know, all what's happening.
01:05:07
Speaker
you know And they keep me on my toes, which I appreciate because it'd be so easy to just get lazy and tired more tired than I already am. They keep me on my toes and they keep me in the present moment. And I really appreciate that.
01:05:19
Speaker
They are awesome little people. but But I worry about their nutrition a lot. And the thing is, when you have a 10-year-old freaking the fuck out because you're trying to get them to eat something they don't want to eat,
01:05:31
Speaker
There's nothing more soul crushing and harder to overcome than meltdowns. And Jamie and I are just kind of revisiting this now. Like, look, we got to get serious. I don't care if they're going to melt down. This is not okay that they keep eating this way.
01:05:44
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and in your, in a huge battle because they're social creatures. So they're with friends at somebody else's house and they're out and about and eat. And the best thing you can do is just instill that foundation to them. Like I grew up on a farm, like we had this crazy garden and stuff. So like, have always had a clear understanding where food comes from.
01:06:05
Speaker
him Most people have no idea what it takes to get that steak on your plate. How many people hands have touched all the steps that it's gone through, how long it's taken to go that from a calf to an age of the cow where it's edible.
01:06:21
Speaker
And so there's, we always had, cause we had animals on the front. There's a more of a reference for like, this is an accomplishment to get this on the dinner table. Well, I also don't think that many people are telling 10 year olds straight up, like, well, if you keep eating the way that you eat,
01:06:37
Speaker
want to and the way that your friends do, you're going to have a shorter life and you're probably going to get sick and it's probably not going to be very good. But hey, yeah, sure. We'll just keep getting it for you because we don't want to deal with the freak outs and we don't want you to feel uncomfortable that you're not drinking like the prime drink that Mr. Beast is selling because he's popular on YouTube and it's probably just full of the worst kind of chemicals.
01:07:01
Speaker
And we're not saying anything. The peer pressure and the fact that I just don't want to let the kids down like that by not being. It's also an affordability issue, right? Huge. Let's face it. We come from financially secure places. And if you.
01:07:17
Speaker
to do that for a family, that's super expensive. Yes. It, all of this is, requires a lot of privilege and access and financial abilities that not very many people have, but I guess I'm just, well, at least I'll tell the kids the truth.
01:07:34
Speaker
so that we can make a better decision even if both of our options are bad options. At least they'll know I'm telling them the truth and that we're doing our best with what we've got. And granted, we have a lot more options than 99% of the people out there.
01:07:47
Speaker
So I take all of it with a grain of salt.
Reflections on Cancer and Life Changes
01:07:51
Speaker
But you... Cancer really made... You said you grew up on a farm, you know where food came from, but you weren't thinking this much about nutrition before cancer, right?
01:08:04
Speaker
I was, I was always fairly healthy. i just love to cook. I kind of know what's on my plate, but there's a much sharper focus about where I want to be. Like, I'm not eating it.
01:08:17
Speaker
ah landscapers outside d in I do, but we'll see if we'll see how good this technology is. let's see how it So I like, I'm just, I'm in some very narrow lanes. Like when I was getting chemotherapy, it was very narrow, no processed sugar, no gluten, no meat.
01:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. No red meat. No, it was like all these things I didn't do. And when I would get, infusions, the nurse would be like, wow. First of all, everyone was shocked that I wasn't on any other medications. I'm like, this is the status of America. Of course, I must come with five other comorbidities if I have cancer.
01:08:49
Speaker
And they're like, why? you You don't really, why? Your numbers are really, well, I'm like, but concerted effort and i would say this was my biggest complaint about mercy hospital and this is hospitals in general you're in infusion and here comes the girl with the cart they're just trying to make you happy and she's got rice crispy treats and potato chips and chocolate chip cookies now i would go in infusion room like well like i was camping because i brought all my own food my own water ice packs for my hands and feet so i didn't get in her up and it was ridiculous john would be like are we staying overnight here i'm like we practically are okay yeah But everyone was like, wow, you're handling all these things really well. Like this isn't by accident. This was like a full-time job.
01:09:24
Speaker
So... Now I'm much looser, but I'm still like, do I drink? Maybe. I might have a blast of champagne here and there, but because I didn't look at it. People like, don't you just want, I'm like, yes, that martini.
01:09:38
Speaker
Yes. But the problem should be like, why don't I just feel like I need a second one. So just don't even, oh just, we just don't even go down the path. And I know, you know how you feel badly the next day? ah What do you think what it's doing to the insides of your body and the trauma that it has caused? I'm like, I am not giving cancer an inch.
01:09:58
Speaker
Okay. We are not helping this shit at all. I'm going to make this as hard as possible. And I can bring the whole story full circle by saying I have that surgery in September tenth 2019, it's my birthday, September 11th.
01:10:14
Speaker
We can't forget that. So this last September I had my five year scan. So every year it's like one year, no recurrence. Okay, this is good. Two years. So every you're like, okay, two years are be to the two year mark.
01:10:25
Speaker
Two years. Okay, great. We're going great. Three years is like, that's a great benchmark. You make it to three and was like, okay, three, like we're still clear. This is amazing. And then you make it to five, five is like fireworks.
01:10:38
Speaker
You can make it to five years with stage four American cancer with no recurrence. You, I say to people, am your unicorn, okay? You'd never think you've met one. Well, you've met one and it's me.
01:10:51
Speaker
The fact I am now five and a half years out, it is a miracle, a true miracle. it is And I say that it's that medical treatment I had with the personal responsibility that I took.
01:11:05
Speaker
Because I said, I'm going to find the absolute best medical professions and I'm going to have a hand in this outcome and I'm going to do everything I possibly can to help with their doing be more effective.
01:11:16
Speaker
And then I'm gonna take the reins from there and I'm gonna keep riding this path. And so that's been my philosophy and I am just, I'm overjoyed. Like I have no worries in the world, please.
01:11:27
Speaker
And then I'm still standing and healthy to tell you that, and I'll send you these pictures. I want you to look at those pictures and then hear from me and say, i feel as if as if It was the time before that. Yeah, now, menopause, that sort of stuff sucks, but I don't feel any different way.
01:11:48
Speaker
It's not even humanly possible. I thought I was gonna be long dead by now. So the fact that I am still here and I feel as incredible as I do, it's a huge testament. So like I try and help the doctor and he's trying to nationally and internationally talk about high-pecking,
01:12:05
Speaker
how it can be used, it can be used for a multitude of cancers. And a lot of hospitals don't utilize it because they still consider exploratory or not yet fully vetted. They've been doing this since the nineties.
01:12:16
Speaker
I went to NDA Anderson. Okay. The best in the country, right? That's all they do is cancer. I went to them after my treatment to talk about what might be a good maintenance start treatment. And I met with them and they're very good.
01:12:28
Speaker
Let me tell if you've got something bad, like that is a top notch place. And so I, they went through my whole file and I said, so let me ask her, I said, would you have done anything differently than the treatment that I had? And they're like, well, we wouldn't have done high PEC for ovarian cancer.
01:12:42
Speaker
And I was like, well, thank God I didn't come here. Wow. You just don't know. And the other thing is when you look at these cancer statistics is my oncologist would say, stop being Dr. Google, get off the internet.
01:12:56
Speaker
but There's a certain amount of things that you want to know. When you're talking about you live in the Northeast or you live in a highly educated research hospital centric area, you take cancer survival rates, you have to amalgamate that across the whole country.
01:13:13
Speaker
So you think somebody in North Dakota is getting the same treatment you're getting in Boston, New York or Baltimore? No. So then you start to take that. You look, if you come into it fairly healthy, right? Not a lot of comorbidities, you keep edging your odds. And so you have to be very careful about getting too distracted with these statistics because it's not your you.
01:13:34
Speaker
It's a great point. It's a great point. And we started off this conversation kind of talking about perspective. And obviously going through this has changed yours. And it's a gift now, really, the perspective that you have and that you've given yourself the ability to have by fighting through this war and and being successful and hitting again congratulations on that.
01:13:57
Speaker
fucking hitting five years, like we're all eventually going to kick the bucket. And but you talk about sleep and taking care of ourselves and paying more attention to health, but stress, you talk about stress.
01:14:10
Speaker
And if you could go back to the u pre the pre-cancer you, what were the things that you were letting just be a big deal that that really weren't?
01:14:22
Speaker
Well, I will start by saying I'm a Virgo. Okay. So I'm perfectionist. Okay. Are you Virgo? I'm a cancer. Oh, okay. So mc goes we are perfectionists.
01:14:33
Speaker
Everything is going to be perfect. We're going to make it perfect. Okay. So I already come to the table with a really high bar for everything. Yeah. Perfectionism is tough. Yeah.
01:14:45
Speaker
And particularly if you were in it working in a creative environment, right? Cause there is no perfection to any of this. Imperfection in sometimes is the best journey, right?
01:14:56
Speaker
Right. Oh, there is, there's that you come to the table with, and then just kind of like my personality. I'm kind of, I'm very driven focused. I kind of, a very decisive. I know it's all of that kind of like didn't come falling down, but it's certainly deflated.
01:15:13
Speaker
And then it was like, okay, how far do I want to reinflate any of this? And my level of how much I can take or how far I'm going to be pissed off now it's whatever.
01:15:24
Speaker
Really? Like I play golf. I'll play competitively. Some people get so bent out of shape or, and they say things and always lean into people. I'll say, what's great about this? It's just fucking golf.
01:15:35
Speaker
That's it. No one cares. That's all it is. And so I definitely would have changed like the work thing that I talked about. I would have, I would have drawn my, my lines in the sand are much brighter, right?
01:15:47
Speaker
her I'll give an example. John wants to go out to dinner with a couple and I'm like, no um'm not doing it. I'm not going to waste three hours of my life, which i don't know how much more time I have, how many more breaths I am.
01:16:00
Speaker
I'm not going to spend it with that.
Positivity and Support Networks
01:16:02
Speaker
and And we, none of us really know that. And I think it's like lee the gift of going through a the almost guaranteed terminal battle with cancer and coming out the other side is like, that's got to be a completely different lens that you look at.
01:16:18
Speaker
at light drill and but the reality is we all should be looking at life more like that yeah it's hard to like you can't like live every day like it's your last but there's a difference between peering over the edge and i had like a zoom lens i you were tangled over the edge yeah i got a real view down there and it was like okay i had always come to that because like i come from a family seven with my parents there's only like me and my brother left So I've just seen people die at young ages, like, okay, like you're not a kind of make your time here count.
01:16:51
Speaker
yeah And so now I'm just kind of focused on, I just find joy in the smallest things you go out for a walk and you're like, with the birds, like they're making noise. And it's just like that, what you talk about with your, your stepkids, like you it's really hard get to struggle to live in the present, right? Cause you're thinking about what else I got to do. And a hundred people have written books about this, but it's a thing like to be in the present moment and not to get too stressed out about the future. Like i was just yeah texting with a someone going through ovarian cancer treatment and she's like, oh, my scan next month, I'm a scan anxiety. And I was like, stop right there.
01:17:28
Speaker
said, there's no scan anxiety here. I said, you've done everything that you possibly can. You're going to the best doctors, you're doing all their treatment, you're doing all the stuff for yourself that you think that you can do.
01:17:39
Speaker
said, there's nothing more that you can do. You go in with a positive attitude because you say, I'm gonna prove that everything that this path that we're on, that we're working on is working.
01:17:50
Speaker
And that's what that scan is gonna tell me. said, don't give cancer another minute of your freaking life. Yeah. Don't let to it give you any more anxiety. It's already taken probably years off your life from the anxiety that you already had.
01:18:02
Speaker
So that's always my philosophy about this is. Yeah. It's so hard, but it's so true that if you talk about like what you can actually control in life, really it's your mindset is really the only thing you can control a lot of other things.
01:18:17
Speaker
But at the end of the day, it's ah it's At the end of the day, it's amazing how much we don't take control and ownership over our mindset for because it can have such an impact on our lives.
01:18:30
Speaker
And i hope she she took your advice because that's good advice. Yeah, she did. She was like, she's like, that's a really great perspective. I'm like, that's my goal, right? When I was diagnosed in Facebook, the one thing that that's great about Facebook are these little micro groups. They're private.
01:18:47
Speaker
You're on a cancer drug. There is a Facebook group for that drug. And do you want to know the crowdsourcing of all the side effects of what people are doing to deal with it? That's where you go. Cause your a doctor, you didn't know about this.
01:18:59
Speaker
Okay. So I much started meeting now in the ovarian cancer things and I'm scrolling like crazy. Please find me someone that has had stage four, that's still alive. Like, do they exist? Like, has anybody been here?
01:19:10
Speaker
Like more than three years do you live? I don't, you're desperate for information. And so I try and you always be like this positive resource. And I had the worst, no one gets it any worse than what I have.
01:19:22
Speaker
And so I'm here to tell you that like, you can make it through the other side. And even if it's only for three more years, then make it three great fucking years. You don't know. Man, like that's a good, so that's a good spot to end this conversation. I think this has been awesome. Thank you so much for just sharing your journey and you are truly you are already a badass but it's just been it's been great it's been great knowing you and hearing these things that you've gone through and what you've learned and i just really appreciate that you're trying to share a lot of that knowledge and meanwhile like let's also save the world if we can while we're here at least make it a little bit better let's just focus on good doing good just like whether it's with your email
01:20:04
Speaker
with just being a good human. Thank you again yeah for joining me today. I just want to be ah above the ground badass. Okay. That's my goal. Yeah. Let's keep kicking as long as possible on that front. Awesome. Thank you so much. It was such a great opportunity to be with you all afternoon. It's been a while since I've seen you.
01:20:23
Speaker
Let's do it again soon.